Arcane marksmanship changes

[rich raven]

As an archer that has started to do some teamhunting, it feels terrible to have a tiny bit more hp and 1/3 of a mages mana with 0% mana absorb.

I feel like something should be changed, imo, archers shouldn’t have to be on mana shield.

Im not a developer, im not sure how to balance this but let this thread be used just to raise awareness.

[shrewd lily]

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[shell briar]

Paladins have roughly 2× less mana than Mages and no inherent mana shield resistance, while Mages sit at around ~50% resistance. In practice, this makes Paladins around 4× less tanky when relying on Mana Shield.
= In all cursed theme spawns you are getting oneshot on MANA shield no matter what on intended level
This spell need a rework for sure

[cyan axle]

you can disable your spell and use might ring. In time of need these two actions turn you almost as tanky as knight. problem solved.

[tranquil sonnet]

as much experienced player says trash like this? cmon

if archer is meant to be single target and in fact deals like 15-20% more damage to single target with spell and SDs then while is not as good in AoE shouldn't be punished that much

[tiny orchid]

It should scale with level (if higher up to 500) hp/mp wold back to normal but without possibility to add mana absorb

[shrewd lily]

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[proven sonnet]

As a Mage that has been struggling to level up.. without a party, I die constantly to everysingle content im trying to do. Im currently level 281. A friend of mine is an archer, he was level 220 when I was 250.. he is now level 340+ and Im still level 281.
He soloed every content in Falcon... I died to every other mission and had to have help from other players throughout the whole questline.
We are now, starting Falcon Dragons, where we both need a team to hunt, but till now, the archer had a way better gameplay experience than me.

Now, the way I see it, as an archer it is not mandatory to use the spell to do more damage.
It takes half your health and use mana shield in the process, yes, but you have the option to toogle it on and off... You gonna hit as hard as a mage, but the payoff is the lower health pool. You dont like it, don't use it.

As a mage, I have nothing compared to that, I honestly don't see the point, why are you complaining about an optional feature, while playing the strongest vocation. Just turn it off, deal less damage and survive the hunt.

As a mage, if I use mana shield, I cant really hunt for long, because it mana runs out, if I dont turn it on, I constantly die, which makes my leveling up experience awfull

[rich raven]

While I agree with everything you say; this is about team hunt balance as well as just general "feeling", arcane marksmanship could be the most balanced spell in all of gaming and this thread would still be made because it just feels awful.

In a group a mage has many times more EHP, refer to kovals comment.

A sorcerer's strength lies in unparalleled aoe ability, in group as well as outside it. Why don't druids deal as much aoe as mages and can heal? There would be no point in having a sorcerer. Why don't sorcerers deal as much damage in single target as an archer? Well, they do. So there is no reason to bring an archer. So Arcane marksmanship is introduced, and now archers is the only vocation that pays a heavy price to do it's intended damage, which is single target. Also keep in mind that by not using the buff we can't even use our ammo.

edit: to reply to your mage vs archer comments. From how the classes are designed my guess is that the developers have an intended "path" for each vocation, or niche. An archer does pretty much only single target damage and has a higher hp pool than mages so they hunt single target and/or 2-3 maybe sometimes with a bit weaker targets, since fewer monsters = stronger monsters they need more hp to survive. A mage focuses more on "weaker" monsters but many in numbers killing many monsters per hour. Why I think this way is by looking at the streams I see, at least in the end game areas sorcerer looks kinda like this: 1 stronger monster, 2-3 pulls of 7-8 monsters each time, then 1 strong, repeat. An archer is 1 strong, 1 strong, 3 medium repeat.

edit2: "As a mage, I have nothing compared to that, I honestly don't see the point, why are you complaining about an optional feature, while playing the strongest vocation. Just turn it off, deal less damage and survive the hunt."

as you say here. If you are dying why are you complaining? just kill weaker monsters and survive the hunt

[earnest ridge]

One thing I was thinking of changing is to enable Amplify Magic Shield for Archers. This allows to cut off some cost after getting hit and increases survivability on teamhunts. There may be an archer equipment with this attribute added in the game in the future.

I feel like Archer is a well balanced class even in end-game and doesn't need any major changes. A jack of all trades, but can become the best at hitting single targets by sacrificing some survivability. It's a fair trade-off.

But remember that it's a choice and not a requirement. You can always turn the spell off after getting hit once and start using it again after you recover the mana. You will still deal a lot of damage, and you will be able to continue hunting without full mana pool.

I have observed some players using this spell without using Magic Shield spell even in Sanctum. It is risky and requires a lot of skill to use properly, but it's possible to save a lot of money in the long run as healing is much cheaper than recovering lost mana - mages with health pool even lower than archer's with Arcane Marksmanship active don't have that choice - and they deal less single target damage on top of that too. Most of teamhunt monster mostly have dodgeable abilities that are aimed towards the shooters (which often don't one-shot archers with spell, but will one-shot mages without Magic Shield), and if they cannot be dodged, they never one-shot mages and especially archers.

Every vocation has their pros and cons, archers have it a lot easier when solo hunting compared to mages but have to be little more careful during teamhunts with spell on and Magic Shield off. Sounds fair to me.

[shell briar]

"which often don't one-shot archers with spell, but will one-shot mages without Magic Shield"
how it can be true if thats 100/200/300 hp difference in most cases but mages have more def and res (1h+shield)

"I have observed some players using this spell without using Magic Shield spell even in Sanctum"
like where for example?
Anchegul - oneshot (even with mana shield)
West/north/east teamhunts are oneshot aswell, maybe onle south doable if you play perfect

whole idea of this spell and archer being played with mana shield is wrong

@earnest ridge
Add 100-300 effective health from resistance attributes since archer equipment has often better % resistance values on their equipment.
I just verified that and druid with 2 handed weapon have about 1.5% more curse res than my rp, and i think shield gives 6%?
Vitality attributes works as 2/3 so thats not true aswell

https://www.twitch.tv/murilozor22
2 hand druid https://gyazo.com/07b5a9d763d45a14dce6a14d4155f0ea

edit2
Hunting solo as a mage is designed to be more challenging compared to archer.
wait which spawn for mage is more challening than rp nagas for example ?

[earnest ridge]

300 health? I think we are talking about end-game archers.
At 700 level it's at least 600 health from level alone. Add 100-200 from Vitality attribute. Add 100-300 effective health from resistance attributes since archer equipment has often better % resistance values on their equipment. That's at around 1000 or so health, or roughly 20-30% more health than mages do.

[severe topaz]

I agree with Eldrin.... the only thing we could change about the Arcane spell is the way to activate or cancel it, because sometimes you lose turns or it takes too long to do so.... or if people cry too much ad some protection but nothing more that 10-15%....

[earnest ridge]

Mage:
2 (wand) + 4 (book) + 5 (helmet) + 8 (robe) + 5 (legs) + 5 (boots) = 29 (or 26 with two-handed staff)

Archer:
3 (crossbow) + 5 (helmet) + 10 (armor) + 6 (legs) + 5 (boots) = 29

Not counting shared equipment. In this case it's the same if mage uses one handed weapon with book, but still they get more health from Vitality attributes (135 - already at 75%).

You can't have both the best single target damage and best survivability. I don't mind decreasing health penalty along with lowering damage bonus from using Arcane Marksmanship.

In end-game content player skill means a lot and all/most of the attacks are designed to be dodgeable. Hunting solo as a mage is designed to be more challenging compared to archer. And on the other hand, hunting in teams is designed to be more challenging for archers compared to mages (while archers use the Arcane Marskmanship spell). Fair and balanced.

[proven prism]

Nobody is asking for best survivability here, just improvement on extreme glass cannon that is archers. I’m
Good with u lowering damage from arcane marksmanship if you give us great aoe dmg or druid abilities. (this is meant as a joke for the slow ppl)

Ur talking like just cause archers have best single target (while other classes have other strengths) they deserve to be punished for it by being squishy?

[glacial meadow]

Help me understand the intentions of the spell. Archers get to be the best single target damage in a team hunt with a cost of a spell that gives 50% less hp?

Who the hell cares who's the most damage in a team hunt? The monster will have the appropriate hp/exp ratio either way

[stiff drum]

arcane marksmanship is fine, dont touch it, thanks

[wary jackal]

then turn off the spell and get back 40% of your hp

[west sigil]

How are u even balancing damage done to shooters if one vocation has 1/4 survivability of others?(role is pretty much the same) The number of mistakes u are letting some vocations make is 4x. You cannot even punish mages somehow because u are one shotting archers.

Answer might be Amplify Magic Shield nerf.

[hot kestrel]

It would be great if at least the arcane spell didn't share a cooldown with runes (like energy ring)

[weary pond]

There have been a lot of feedbacks about archers today in regards to skills, defense, spells etc. What seems to stand out to me is that survivability is most wanted and personally I'd have to agree with that (but also just don't get hit lols). There was also a discussion in regards to archers usually having a rather high blocking skill from training but there is no use to it, well not a general one but people do have a niche thing to do with it. Is there any potential in using maybe that blocking skill to elevate an archers survival in any way? Maybe translate it into a some sort of dodge (saw from another thread) or a percentage defense in regards to health since that seems to be a big favourite recently . Take less damage from aoe? Idk but to me it seems there are a lot of possibilities - and maybe at least discuss a way forward with archers and blocking cause right now my 123 blocking is just a cool number.

[lone swallow]

archers don't get one-shot with spell and mana shield, there is no spawn which does this. If they get hit and low on mana then they can turn off manashield and spell. Mages don't have that luxury~

[gloomy rivet]

paladins are doing noticeable higher dmg in th to single target than others.
without spell in solo hunts paladins are doing slightly less dmg than mages to single target but with lower cost which means their hunts are cheaper.

as example 800 rp on spell has like 1k~ more hp than 800 mage, its a lot.
sanctum south and north are fine to stay without mana shield as paladin on spell but ofc it depends on your knight and your positioning.
if ure using mana shield as paladin then u must focus a lot on your positioning and whats happening around to dodge and avoid dmg and just shot sds on battle list.
if ure strugling with survi then just turn off spell or learn better mechanics or change your knight.

arcane marksman spell is fine how it is and this vocation is well balanced in my opinion - just boring cause sd simulator
every vocation have their own pros and cons, if u dont like archer game play, then change vocation

[magic pivot]

I would like to suggest a new spell for Druids and Mages ( TADALAVITA )

The character would lose 30% of their Spell Power, gain 100% increased maximum HP, and have a 25% chance to execute the basic attack twice. For balance purposes, it would not be possible to use Mana Shield while this spell is active.

When equipping the Energy Ring, damage taken from enemies is increased by 15%.
Evidently, a masterpiece of balance: either one chooses to deal damage, or enjoys the privilege of staying alive.

Could some kind soul, equipped with a respectable reputation, please forward this feedback?
If I were to do it myself, it would most likely be interpreted as mere whining.

Love you guys <3

[simple inlet]

Tibia player learns Paladins are better for solo content 30 years late: SHOCK

[proven sonnet]

I appreciate your perspective, but I'm finding it challenging to solo content, often requiring significant sacrifices or much higher levels compared to archers, who can handle similar hunts 50-100 levels earlier. A buff for archers in team hunts might create imbalance, given mages' vulnerabilities in solo play—we must exercise extra caution in every spawn. Archers, meanwhile, have flexibility in team settings, if they wanna do more damage, there has to be a trade-off on survivability.

Every vocation has its strengths and weaknesses: archers excel in solo hunting but need to be more cautious during team hunts with the arcane marksmanship on, which seems fair. Archers are designed as versatile "jacks of all trades," not dominant in every scenario.

Mage perfom better in TH, though it comes with the trade-offs of a tougher leveling journey, wich as I mentioned, Im facing right now. And every other mage that I talk to (either levels 400-500-600) they all complain about the same thing.They all get constants deaths, the Glass Cannon part of being a mage. While Archers are soaring trough new content alone, we have to either get 200 levels ahead of the "content" in order to survive or depend on other players. They want to be the a Cannon, but don't want the "glass" part of it.

It would feel unbalanced for archers to claim the easiest solo progression and top team damage without meaningful drawbacks like the worse mana shield. Mages do benefit from superior mana shielding, yes but also after enduring considerable harder journey, while archers enjoy a smoother path. This payoff system maintains balance across vocations.

@simple inlet Medivian archers, think that they should be able to perform better not only as solo players, but also on TH and survivability then, they want more damage on teamhunts, and they get it with a new spell/mechanic that offers that with a trade-off, but they cry about it on the forums, and ask for more and more buffs: SHOCK

[rich raven]

I would be fine with removing all spellpower but just enable bolts if that would remove the need to be on mana shield.

For those saying just disable the spell, that would work in a perfect world. I would be removed from the group tho if i tried it.

One band aid fix i could see is removing camoflage from exaust.

[lone swallow]

If you’re losing mana to retargets that’s your knight’s fault, removing exhaust from camouflage won’t help with that. Maybe the whole team needs to play better?

[glacial meadow]

Ok but please get rid of that retarded homing shot that a succubus does.
I'm not far Into the game but attacks like that seem dumb. Hopefully it's the last of them.

[wary jackal]

Those homing shots only do like 300-600 damage.
Could you manage to keep your mana up on manashield? Yes
Should you be on mana shield there? No

Stay safe? More cost either through mana shield or don't use the spell so you have less damage
Why? You are either too low level or something is going wrong on some part of your team

[proven prism]

Adding amplify mana shield to some gear or flat to arcane markmanship, half of what mages and druids have would be a fair change.

[shell briar]

Remove this spell, add temporary distance boost + attack speed (I'm really confused why druid have that spell ) - useable only in shared party
Archers being played on mana shield is big missconception

[earnest ridge]

There are no changes planned to Arcane Marksmanship spell, it will stay as it is (health penalty, spellpower bonus, etc.).
However, there will be Amplify Mana Shield enabled for archers, they also will get some of it through magic level (0.5% per 1 magic level).

If you struggle with keeping mana with the spell on, then focus more on dodging dodgeable spells and turn it off temporarily if you get really low on mana - you deal more damage with spell off than you do pausing hunt and standing in place trying to regenerate mana. Using might rings instead of rings that give you dexterity or ring of purity may also be a good option if you get hit a lot.

[silent knot]

Kkkkkkkkk
Oh yeah, mages need to hunt all the time in risky to lure good mobs and ue and keep mana good, and a noob paladin that have 99% hunts brain dead is saying about the only hunt difficult for pallys?

Rps dont need mana drain, just take the spell off ( or maybe learn how to push might ring???)

[harsh pelican]

Tbh if you will buff paladins with amplify, why anyone would want to play mage vocations without adventages of other vocations ?

[proven sonnet]

That's what I think as well... Archers already have the best solo play.. and then when on team hunts, they want to be able to do exactly as a mage, with all the pro's and no cons.... its ridiculous. You either are the best on solo, or on team hunts, they shouldn't have both ways.

Also, I loved the TADALAVITA proposal from @magic pivot I mean, I see the irony on it... but it's pretty much what the archers get, they sacrifice survivability in order to do more damage. Why not have this for mages the other way around as well? Sacrifice some of my spellpower, to be more tanky and be able to do solo hunts/tasks without depending on blocker for everything. But I BET the ones asking for archer buffs, would be the first ones to complain about it

[hasty wave]

Honestly rps already have best sheol reward, more life and cap than mages when solo hunting making it way easier, only voc that can solo hunt church after 650~ doing great exp and profit with chance to drop dawnlight, cheaper ammo with more damage than mages, better duo with ek than ms+ek in some respawns due to high single target with marksmanship, and now they want to be more tank in teamhunts

I wont be surprise when someone ask for mas san or x4 rp hunt

And you can still cherry picking and reacting negatively with emotes @shell briar, you know its already hard to find ed or ms for teamhunt sanctum in pendulul because there is 20 rps for each druid but i honestly dont care if they keep buffing rps i wanna see how they will fix it later xD

[plucky basin]

Thought church is nerfed so rps cant solo hunt it anymore

[shell briar]

turning spell off should have less exhaust

[magic pivot]

You managed to create a situation in which the paladin vocation effectively gains access to an effect equivalent to an infinite might ring while using aneva vita.

[silent knot]

0.5% of mana drain per magic lvl isnt too much for an archer?

My ed w/ magic lvl 102 and set only have 30%.

I think archers should have max of 10% mana drain.

[glacial meadow]

Can we cast the spell outside of party/shared since the health penalty is enough?

[limpid temple]

I don't know what kind of set you have that gives you less than 10% AMS (102 mlvl give 20%+), but if you want to compare top mlvl among archer, compare it to the top magic on druid/sorc they have over 40% manadrain resist with set.

[crude slate]

If there will be items for paladin with ampilfy magic shield i hope they wont have double shot, vitality etc also. Would be broken. But i wouldnt be surprised if paladins getting again buffed

[cyan axle]

Can you please not make changes to the existing paladin sets? I don't feel like attributing my set for 10th time because you add new attributes.

[tranquil sonnet]

Ok, they will not do proper changes becouse you don't want to atribute. XD don't do it then but let game develop

[cyan axle]

it's not a proper change. it's a change that came from someone's ass crack and is being rushed with almost 0 thought behind it and solves literally nothing, because the root of the problem is paladin's skill issue. I'm extremely annoyed that eldrin just casually adds new attributes to old items ruining ppl's fully attributed sets AGAIN for no good reason. Please either come with proper solutions to this nonexistant problem or add these in form of properties or start adding it on newly added items.