#Proposal to Fix Gouge / Swords in general.

27 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

nimble veldt
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Please read whole post before commenting as is a lot of information!

Melee Weapon Identies:
To begin I'd like to explain in my opinion the intention of each of the melee weapon types.

  • Axe: Single Target, big hits. (Berserk and Crit)
  • Club: Tanking (Bonus health through perseverance)
  • Sword: Multiple Mobs, Balanced weapon (Parry defensive, Gouge Offensive (bleed an enemy change to next target))

Problem with Swords

  • Currently only swords worth using are basically the swords containing "Swift Striker" which IMO doesn't even fit the weapon identity.
  • One of the glaring issue's with Swords atm is that Gouge is trash after getting out of low levels. This could be corrected by doing 2 things to Gouge IMO which would in turn correct swords largely.
  1. Reducing the overall number of ticks required for Gouge to allow it to start from a higher number and feel more impactful as opposed to starting at the default 25 that you don't even notice.
  2. Gouge (the offensive part of swords) doesn't scale with your level, STR, Skills, etc...... which puts it MILES behind like Critting on the Axe. It being a base value that never changes is terrible once enemies start having basically any amount of health.

Proposal:
Duration: So I would propose that having gouge be changed to ticking maybe 6-8 times to wear off.
Damage: I would like to suggest having the starting damage be 10%+ of either your max possible hit or possibly 15%+ of the hit that caused the Gouge, and ticking down in intervals of the tick amount.

Examples:
Thought I would provide some number Examples to further explain the above.
All number examples will be based off of a base damage hit of 600.

Axe for Comparison:

  • Base Hit 600 + 50% (crit) = 900 damage

Sword Gouge:

  • (Gouge starting at 10% of base hit with 7 ticks)
    Base Hit 600, (Proc Bleed) 60, 51, 43, 33, 26, 17, 9 = 839 Damage with base hit and 7 ticks of bleed / gouge.
  • (Gouge starting at 13% bleed but ticking only 6 times)
    Base Hit 600, (Proc Bleed) 78, 65, 52, 39, 26, 13 = 873 Damage with base hit and 6 ticks of bleed / gouge.

Just a few examples, obviously they could adjust the bleed ticks and damage percentage but wanted to explain the math I am considering in the Feedback.

Balance if proposal accepted:

  • Add Gouge to "The Armageddon" Demonic Faction sword.
  • Remove / change Swift Striker from Swords attributes as Gouge will start providing proper damage as it's ability will scale with your Strength and Skills.
    (This statement does not apply to the base property on Demonic Faction weapons, I think Swift Striker should be limited to those only)
  • Remove Gouge from all axes. As let's be real, atm no one using an axe actually cares that gouge is on it, critting for 700+ damage you don't care about a 25 and counting down bleed. With the suggested gouge changes keeping this on axes would make them too insane compared to other melee weapon types.

How does this make swords better?
In my opinion this will give Swords a better "identity" as how it currently stands only swords worth using have Swift Striker.
The intention would be using swords for multi pull fighting.
You'll be hitting one mob it gets the bleed ideally you switch to the next target while gouge does some work on the enemy, and with a sword having parry it seems as this is how you would want to use the weapon. You get the balance of Parry with the Offensive of a properly scaling Gouge proc.
Also as a side note this would better both one handed swords and two handed swords.

This also won't overpower Swords to replacing Axes as the power hitter weapons. Because Axes will still have Berserk to increase your base skills, as well as Axes have that chance to crit multiple times in quick succession while swords at best will be able to replace the gouge starting it over so it won't be replacing Axes by any means but yet being the more ideal selection for when hunting like 3 enemies at a time with explosions.

simple igloo
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Given the math you posted, that seems like an elegant solution to the imbalance between the weapons overall, especially given what the "intent" is between the 3 weapon types.

visual rapids
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I do like the idea of gouge scaling with the hit that procs it, it would incentivise 2 handed swords over 1 handed swords where suitable.

nimble veldt
visual rapids
# nimble veldt Calculating your max possible hit and having that be the % base for bleed would ...

Yes I could have better articulated that it was 2 separate points I was making, and that anyone with half a brain is well aware how max damage scaling would also preference 2 handed weapons, so to elaborate I would like the rng of scaling relative to the hit that procs the gouge..

Perhaps look at your original post if you feel like picking at poorly written points and rewrite this to mean what you hopefully meant to say? or were you unaware that gouge can "re-proc" and start again if only part way through its term.

  1. Reducing the times Gouge needs to "tick" before it wears off without being able to overwrite the proc and start it over, it currently ticking 25 times down to 0 damage is a large part of it being terrible
nimble veldt
# visual rapids Yes I could have better articulated that it was 2 separate points I was making, ...

Ah, I was not nit picking at your "poorly written point" as you put it, was just stating the thing you said you liked applies to both formula's.

Also yeah that segment I wrote needs to be re-done. I was over the 4,000 character limit and had to re-write a lot of things to get the original post to fit. That seems to have been 2 writen parts that got left behind and mashed together., will change it when get a moment.

grizzled swallow
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Tl : dr weapons need a tuning pass

rich wing
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Gouge's biggest problem is that it doesn't scale with strength or skill, so it's very strong at low levels and really weak at high levels. This attribute in it's current state shouldn't be on any level 200+ weapons. It needs to be reworked or buffed. People have been complaining about this attribute for years and rightly so.

hollow jacinth
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I agree with the gouge, it should scale.It really doesn't matter when incurso is the main damage dealer anyway. The autohit is just a bonus. At least in higher levels.

maiden socket
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Bump - as pointed out please rework gouge

maiden socket
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Bump

rotund flower
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Yes, somehow you raised some questions to be considered in EK weapons. Without a shadow of a doubt, the sword is wronged.

Regarding the demonic faction's sword, "armageddon" should also have gouge.

And I'll go further, all of the knight's Sheol weapons need to be reformulated. Check out RP's Bow 😂

nimble veldt
rotund flower
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Up

sullen basin
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@marble halo thoughts?

unique dirge
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Bump

rotund flower
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sad

nimble veldt
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Bump

rotund flower
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😢

maiden socket
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Up

mild compass
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If I'm not mistaken, there is an accepted post about balancing all weapons

and to record my opinion: Gouge should activate and only be 3 turns

and have weapons with different atk for different levels, because it is the knight's source of damage, where the lvl does not interfere in practically anything, unlike other vocations

#

I think this won't happen

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nimble veldt
# mild compass **I think this won't happen**

This statement from Eldrin you posted I feel like is a completely different topic than wanting to fix / correct a attribute (gouge) that is essentially worthless once you get out of lower levels to make swords a more desired weapon to use.
Cause as stated in the original post, swords without Swift Striker are currently basically thrown aside because Swift Striker is essentially just crit, but with swapping the Berserk from axes for parry on swords. 🤷

modern whale
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Ye I think lightbane getting gouge as a upgrade was a joke xD

nimble veldt
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Bump.

maiden socket
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Bump

nimble veldt
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Bump.