knights feedback

[finite lance]

So we basically got less max dmg than before the TS with same eq? That’s what I understood so far.

[sinful tangle]

I just don't want EK solo leveling experience to suck so bad. If you "high level and experienced" dudes have the devs ear, then use that power to produce an outcome that might bring alot more people to this game. Thats what you guys want right? Less dead servers etc? TBH I dont know what the fuck you guys want sometimes lol Hearing some of this shit.

[vagrant kayak]

lowlvl knight gameplay just saw a massive buff, easily 20% xp/h increase. like what are u even advocating here? 1kk/h with 2h at cyclops, lvl 200 in 15 minutes pls?

[upper skiff]

2H gameplay on solo knight sub 200 is really nice now, some of us had to suffer what you're going through in the original 7,4 mechanics where max hit with 105 skills was 300

We pushed for reduced mana cost on exori, we pushed for single target exori "incurso min" a lot of changes happened because we advocated for it. We just have to be reasonable about changes take very careful steps when we're changing things because its very easy to break that balance between vocations xd thats why people are so triggered by radical ideas

[finite lance]

I would be really really happy to be a little bit more independent when it comes to factions, said it once or twice already. I’m just lacking time to organize a team for content other factions can solo pretty fast. Im not even talking about doing it in other vocs speed. Just being able to, would give me benefits.

[vagrant kayak]

@finite thistle can you please unlock white light faction for my char so i can test chaos and light weapons?

[sinful tangle]

Do you and this community believe Ek's should never have the ability to reach similar exp/hr solo on par with other classes solo? If this could somehow not effect their team play viability.

[vagrant kayak]

do you believe sorcerers should be as tanky as knights? XD balance is more than xp/h, like what do we have to say for that to get into ur brain

[upper skiff]

EKs do reach similar exp, it just depends on the stage you're in as an EK

[sinful tangle]

We're on the right path with a bloodlust stance then. The issue is balancing the cost.

[quasi berry]

DSM isnt counted as low gear? at which point does the attributing benefits begin?

[finite thistle]

If chances were already "high" enough, they were not modified.

[low verge]

Angelic boots new attributes?

[finite lance]

• healing ability 😱😂

[zealous lintel]

About 2H Weapons, is true the Sword will be the worst? Considering the Parry will not accumulate fury?

[sinful tangle]

This is also an issue yeah.

[finite thistle]

Resistance (Manadrain)/Amplify Magic Shield should be replaced with Vitality (35)

[low verge]

Guess you mean amplify?

[zealous lintel]

Improving my question:
When parry with a 2H sword, knight will gain fury? Thanks ❤️

[finite thistle]

Yes.

[sinful tangle]

Good question. I don't think so tbh.

[finite thistle]

Should, yes. Technically, before parry, damage is reduced by defense/blocking first.

[dusky epoch]

have data for update?

[finite thistle]

Tomorrow.?

[zealous lintel]

Good, otherwise Parry would be a huge nerf for sword knights

[quasi berry]

With all melee being merged into one could you look into buffing perseverance (2H) it offers 10% skill for 12 seconds while Berserk gives 18% skill and movement for 12 seconds, axes also naturally have more attack then clubs.

[icy axle]

I feel like the great longsword should be buffed from 4% parry > 5% parry. I also feel the chaos sword should be buffed from 3% parry > 5% parry.

Any word on changing weapons to their sister weapon types? Every knight I talk to is mentioning how they regret a weapon they chose based on their skills which now is not a factor.

[sinful tangle]

Hey man sorry to resurrect this one but Im curious if you could clarify this a bit more. If EK was a bit easier and more enjoyable to level solo, wouldn't there be more EKs available for teams to progress?

[finite thistle]

Currently there is an issue with attributes, both items must have the same amount of attributes, with similar cost. Unless you don't mind losing all attributes when changing weapon type.

[robust cave]

Can show look of this item now?

[finite thistle]

It is available on test server.

[noble torrent]

All archini, great etc weapons usually have the same chances to attribute, maybe easiest would be to transfer it 1 to 1 and if the one u want has less attributes total to u loose the extras

[upper skiff]

It's easier in the sense that you're much safer when hunting, its more profitable, just a bit boring imo; That bore factor for some makes them swap to pally/mage/druid, but regardless mage/druid have to grind tombs which imo is equally boring

[noble torrent]

Please tell me why angelic platemail where we had vast grip from beginning has now less str than hfa?

[last pier]

really low lvls and newbies got nerfed, like 20-30% nerf, for new created char it would be even more probably 😄

[finite thistle]

I have adjusted melee damage formula. Now the flat value of max hit is 25 instead of 5, nothing else changed.
max = 5 + (attackSkill ^ 2) / 1550 * attackValue / attackFactor=>
max = 25 + (attackSkill ^ 2) / 1550 * attackValue / attackFactor

[last pier]

Ohhh, thats great 💪
I mean I don't care that much, just checked out stuff 1 or 2 days ago on meme char and he got nerfed 😄

[hard night]

Why would you create a public feedback channel if you are not going to consider the opinion just because YOU think they lack experience to make that call? Playtime =/= knowledge, lets get that one right. Lets not play the pretend-game that oldschool players cant be biased.

[fair prism]

@narrow flint

[vagrant kayak]

there's a difference between someone with little playtime and yet experience and knowledge and then there is complete clowns. listen to the former sure, the later not so much

[sinful tangle]

lol if you engage people at that level, they will respond in kind.

[quasi berry]

Every EK who thought the melee on 1st day of test was fine should of been instabanned from this thread

[vagrant kayak]

"im lvl 90 knight, i want same xp/h as mage who has 30% of my hp and also i think 550 max hit is too little, cant oneshot dragon, boring game ://"

[icy axle]

You mean you don't want knights to farm undead dragons for less than a bp uh per kill?

[quasi berry]

[sinful tangle]

I agree completely but sadly this is still a videogame and that doesn't always tend to attract the minds that allow for that kind of awareness

[abstract blaze]

will full itens came without vasp grip? i mean, we will have to try get the new att? @finite thistle

[meager nimbus]

Q: Should HMM be higher the damage than Heavy Frozen Missile? getting in average higher with hmm

[trail cedar]

buff eks

[vagrant kayak]

on test server it is like this - rightfully too. if it didnt have vast grip before, u didnt get extra dmg before either, so open ur wallet and pay up 😄

[upper rapids]

.

[icy axle]

I was thinking you could make it unique, something like this:

Annihilator
Allow Glechoma to exchange your annihilator items for their sister version for 25 demonic claws.

Primordial Fire Weapons
Introduce a new item to the loot table of Ancient Watchers with the same loot rate as say a violet gem. You bring that item to Kha'Yr and he will exchange your primordial fire weapon to a sister version of it. If you wish to switch it again, you need to bring the item to him again. This would give incentive to people who may never want to enter this spawn again to help others progress.

Grazlin Weapons
Grazlin will exchange a weapon that he forged for you for its sister version if you help him out. He has had a hard time obtaining some weaker ores because of how many new miners there are. Bring him 300 copper bars, 250 silver bars, 200 phenakite bars, 150 chalcopyrite bars, and 100 bornite bars and he will reforge your gold weapon (I heard you are making golden sword and axe?), great weapon, or meteorite weapon into it's sister version for you. Anytime you switch items you must bring him those materials.

Sister weapons must require the same materials to forge (great axe/great mace/great longsword are different than great quiver/great pouch).

Blood Weapons
Arbiter Kerrin will exchange your blood weapon for its sister version if you bring him 5 blood tears. You must bring more tears anytime you exchange them.

My whole point is this, I think there are far better systems you can put into place than just a flatrate gold fee, but even a fee is better than just saying oh well, you snooze, you lose. I know there has been many different things other and myself have proposed that were deemed "not possible" that you guys have figured out, so please, after this update tomorrow keep this in mind as it's pretty important for knights, especially on servers that don't have massive characters bought and sold with a surplus of items in circulation.

[valid dew]

ofcourse brian with another idea concerning mining, who else

[icy axle]

Currently those ores are all useless, figured it would at least give a use to them.

[hard night]

I just noticed you drop out of Bloodlust Stance when you activate Soul Shield, thats not intended is it? You lose all fury gauge due to this. Same with divine Flame it seems

[meager nimbus]

Im getting less skills in test server that i have in live server, could be a bug or still not merge?

[icy axle]

What % of the item level do you need to be to gain the full stats?

[vagrant kayak]

it was previously stated 80%, idk if that changed since

[icy axle]

This update is gonna fuck me lol all my equipment is high as fuck for my char

[vagrant kayak]

you will have improved xp/h solo, exactly what you came for and you will grow into it and dont have to worry about buying while everyone else is panic-spamming trade chat right now, u good 😄

[sinful tangle]

Sounds like a level problem

[icy axle]

100% and as I lvl I unlock more str

So Str 12/14 means my char can only utilize 12 out of the max 14 if I reach 80% of the item level?

Str 12 + 15 means it has in total 27 str?

[vagrant kayak]

it means you currently utilize 12 and it will be the full 14 once u get 80% of lvl. second question yes

[marsh tinsel]

I think if u have 80% of the level recommended u get all STR

[icy axle]

I honestly don't like that I have to re-attribute all my equipment after spending over 100kk to complete it all though, what is the reasoning for this?

[sinful tangle]

You mean after you get gear thats good for your level?

[hard night]

im lvl 333 and umbral helmet (360) gives me 31/35

[vagrant kayak]

mhm maybe eldrin changed the 80% then up to something else

[icy axle]

I have a horned helmet, hellforged armor, hellforged legs, golden boots, all of which were fully attributed yesterday. Today they are all missing vast grip it seems.

[sinful tangle]

Wtf that was intended?

[vagrant kayak]

i mean, they didnt have vast grip before. the ones that did, u wont have to attribute again. rip all the yellow frames though 😄

[icy axle]

I read something about it I just don't understand it because some of the items didn't have vast grip and I guess he added them. I solved it lol

[sinful tangle]

I see. These patch notes are going to have to be well written lol

[icy axle]

Yeah vast grip was added to items that didn't have it, exactly, so if an item had vast grip it's still full, otherwise have fun attributing and dumping more kks into your items lol

[noble torrent]

But idk why still angelic platemail is worst than hfa. 1 less str xP

[vagrant kayak]

easier to obtain. i got mine for 5 min afk at bishop

[icy axle]

For vast grip on golden boots at 12.5%.

Before Vast Grip:
15:32 Melee damage (strength: 107): 143->648 (old) => 277-719 (new)

After Vast Grip:
15:35 Melee damage (strength: 117): 143->648 (old) => 280-723 (new)

4kk for that? 😂

Red boarder looks sick never seen a red one before lol

[finite lance]

Now think about attributing if you do not meet level req of an item.

This level req seriously is stupid. I’ve put a lot of gold into buying and attributing while I’m now not able to use it full scale

[icy axle]

Well with this update it makes it so that if you aren't the level required of the item there is really no sense in buying it unless you are rich or dump a lot of rl money into the item since you can utilize a weapon immensely lower level orientated and deal the same damage. Not sure if people realize this. It just makes better equipment sought after by higher levels. No more selling good gear to up and coming players. Horriblely introduce in my opinion but it is what it is.

My set cost well over 100kk, not exagerating, and someone who is the same level as me with a set they looted themselves while playing will deal the same damage as me.

I spent 4 months mining my great longsword. Now I am punished for doing so. If I had leveled up in that time instead and used an executioner sword I would be hitting harder.

[finite lance]

Yea it‘ll give way less options for high levels to sell fresh looted really good gear. Just because there’s a lot less people willing to buy as it doesn’t make sence for them

[sinful tangle]

So no more pay to win? 🤔

[icy axle]

As long as they depanelize account sharing there will always be pay to win because of people paying others to level their chars for them.

[finite lance]

Why so serious? He just said he mined for months. You can make runes over weeks and sell all of them with 2 chars, that gives you a lot of cash too.

@finite thistle is Thoris boat broken? 😃

[icy axle]

@finite thistle Hellforged legs deals the same damage as watcher legs when both are fully attributed.

Hellforged Legs:
15:42 Melee damage (strength: 132): 143->648 (old) => 284-728 (new)

Watcher Legs:
15:42 Melee damage (strength: 131): 143->648 (old) => 284-728 (new)

[eternal mural]

weapons still got more attack though and EQ usually got other attributes that makes them worth to get.

[sinful tangle]

@icy axle Sure there will always be some way to gamify the system. I for one like that you cant just credit card best gear imo.

@finite lance Im unsure what you mean by serious? That was a thinking face. I was considering the implications of that. But on the whole I think this is a good choice especially for new and up and coming players.

[icy axle]

I mis understood how this works. You still get to utilize the full weapons attack. I just tested it

[sinful tangle]

I tried full set of highest gear earlier, and that lack of strength didnt feel worth the investment at all. I was attacking well under what I am now at a fraction of the "cost"

[finite thistle]

Shouldn't, why?

[icy axle]

Why does hellforged armor have more str than angelic platemail?

[finite lance]

The level cap really sometimes is too high, take chaos shield as example.. lvl 400 - you can go there with a team WAY earlier.

[robust cave]

1 more attack on hailstorm @finite thistle or on flawes of this item

Berserker weapons and perseverance best of all

[late heron]

Was cost to attribute blue/red robe and plague spreader rod changed? 😛 how much for pom xd

[finite thistle]

Cost of PoM was not changed on any item.

[abstract blaze]

update tomorrow on SS?

[finite lance]

Cause it doesn’t show Thoris

[finite thistle]

This is an NPC from Thoris

[finite lance]

Oh, explains it lol. My bad 🫡

[finite thistle]

Item level of virulent and watcher items will be increased after next server restart.

[icy axle]

Please look into chance on succeeding with attributes. I have tested many of them with high %'s and it seems like extremely off. Getting vast grip on 3 items cost me almost 15kk.

[finite lance]

Yea I’m failing really really often too 😃

[last pier]

Well, kinda feeling the same, 27 stones for 9% chance att 😄

[sage vapor]

By the testicles I made knight will it continue as horrible as it was?

[eternal mural]

i feel like strength needs to increase berserk and decimates dmg cause else knights are gonna lose a lot of dmg with those spells since they scale with skills.

[icy axle]

I think I may have found a bug please pm me @finite thistle

[sinful tangle]

what is it?

[robust cave]

@eternal mural maybe

[finite lance]

Do you mean on top of the actual dmg, so after taking skills into calculation?

[split vessel]

may i ask , maybe u were talking about BAR that will show my total strange ?

[eternal mural]

one knight said he is losing 500 dmg on berserk compared to live which is a lot

[finite lance]

I understand, but would you want the dmg only based on strength, so with higher level so to say? Or also dependent on the characters skills, so skills + strength as a whole do low-mid lvls won’t suffer so much?

[hard night]

The Knight in question has 141 axe atm and sheol gear, it looks like that nerf hits harder the higher your skills are prior

[eternal mural]

I mean he is losing dmg cause eq used to give skills and now it will give strength instead shouldnt be hard to balance so dmg stay the same with good EQ

[winter owl]

Can i ask what about attributte, when i have full attribute Hellforged Armor and you add 1 more then i will need use crystal to get that 1 more or if i have full that will be full ?

[finite lance]

Yea it should be like that. Still I think skills should have an impact ok the dmg too. So basicly taking both skills and strength into calculations for incurso (min).

[finite lance]

On test I needed to attribute „again“

[eternal mural]

yes u will need to attribute it again, u can alrdy see that on test

[noble torrent]

That was exactly what I was asking about. Eldrin said that the formula may be adjusted... dunno if you see result of it or it still will happen

[icy axle]

17:14 Melee damage (strength: 123): 143->916 (old) => 367-1292 (new)

Well, not a bug but, found a mechanic to hit insanely hard now

[split vessel]

so probably it will be fixed soon 😄

[vocal quail]

care to elaborate?

[vagrant kayak]

gods wrath

[sinful tangle]

Great mace

[icy axle]

Inb4 mages, druids, and archers cry, used a melee ring, meal, waited for berserk to proc, waited for perseverance to proc, then casted gods wrath at the very end. Would have been nice to slap on the great axe at the end and crit.

[sinful tangle]

Lmfao

[north yoke]

All equipments are receiving precise/vast grip att? Just logged in TS for the first time and basically half my set is missing one att, doesn't feel right having vast grip on every single item just for the sake of having strength boost

[quasi berry]

https://tenor.com/view/now-old-man-the-future-is-now-old-man-gif-9677657

[hard night]

Update tomorrow? Or 29th

[abstract blaze]

@finite thistle update tomorrow on SS?

[upper rapids]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/888537348491579446/1123390055126417428/image.png

no perseverance

[marsh tinsel]

Highrate or lowrate?

[sinful tangle]

Test server

[small tapir]

Hello another test server report 🫡
so I logged in and I see another weird anomaly: you added vast grip (or rather strength) to all items that didnt have it before. I can't really comprehend reasoning behind this. what made umbral platemail better than hf armor for example was that additional 4 skills/more melee damage that hf armor didn't have but now you are effectively giving same advantage to hf armor. Similar situation with hellforged helmet vs Umbral helmet. All items that didnt have this attribute were balanced while having this in mind. So you basically made all of those items op. Comments?

[sinful tangle]

nope all good here

[icy axle]

I am 100% certain that attributing was coincidentally enough made immensely harder to successfully attribute gear. Seems like a ninja gold sink to me.

[sinful tangle]

The reward tho..

[small tapir]

oh yea and imagine players reaction when they have to get one additional attribute to their previously fully attributed equipment

[icy axle]

It says high percents too like 12.5 but if you go on test server and do a bunch like I did you will quickly find out that those numbers are pillowed, whether intentional or not. It costs an absolute shit ton more crystals to attribute an item on test server than it does live on the game currently, and that says a lot.

I have not needed to buy mc since my gear has been fully attributed. I continued to do so for boosts and roes but ever since the cooking nerf I have not needed to purchase an mc. Now all of the sudden with this patch it's extremely hard to attribute despite what the % window shows, ask anyone. I don't always believe in coincidences, if this is true it would be much better to just fix aquariums rather than add a vast grip attribute on every piece of previously fully attributed gear.

I am not spreading propaganda btw, you can go live on test server and test it for yourself. Just seems strange to me.

[sinful tangle]

Which item would best test your theory

49 large painite for full greataxe

[north yoke]

some equipment should be proper for DPS and some should be proper for tanking, making all of them having vast grip looks weird

[icy axle]

I can't prove my theory unless the devs come and confirm that the percentages to successfully attribute an item are off. I have attributed countless items though in my time playing since it has been available and from my personal experiences, on test server it seems immensely more difficult to succeed, despite what the chance percentages listed are saying. Others who also have played live and attributed equipment all seem to agree with me though.

[sinful tangle]

@finite thistle

[icy axle]

Bro you don't have to tag him with every opinion people state lmao the guys rushing to get this done by ss. He will read it eventually.

[quasi berry]

i missed like 40 stones and then hit 2 in a row on robe of agony anything under 10 is hard to hit

[sinful tangle]

Its a good question though brian. Id be curious if your opinion has any weight or just confidently wrong again

Id have a huge problem with him ninja nurfing rolls.

[icy axle]

Confidently wrong is a bit drastic of a response here lmao

Dude I'm sorry but I am like 99% sure you're a troll

[sinful tangle]

RIght..

[icy axle]

You literally entered this discord a couple days after this thread was started lmao it's all making sense think you're exposed bud

[sinful tangle]

I see you deleted your essays on how bad mace is. You are a literal meme

[dusky epoch]

update will be in this ss?

[split basin]

This seems like a bug

[dapper stag]

To continue Brians point of changing weapons of the same type(meteorite, primordial, demonic faction.. etc) and to remedy eldrins attribute concern, perhaps make it cost 1 attribute to convert. for example.. A weapon must have at least 1 attribute to be traded in for its sister versions, a single attribute weapon will be converted to a clean weapon. a weapon with 4 attributes will be converted to the desired weapon type with only 3 attributes.. This would enable an npc dialogue to the effect.."that is a great longsword of the most exceptional workmanship, if you would be so willing I will happily exchange it for your choice of great mace or great axe.."

[grim flint]

Why to rush something that is not done 100% you can launch new server but at the same time you can delay patch as im sure ppl prefer smth done 100% right and i can see there are still many concerns.

And change bloodstance too all DMG taken

[finite lance]

I agree gouge should be considering all dmg types. It’s not a too big buff, or let us atleast try if it is. To me, being in „bloodlust stance“ should end up in more spell casting too, not just 2 sec hit rate. And let’s not talk it stronger than it probably would be.

I mean, we’re receiving 25% more dmg of all types too. Would it really unbalance things?

[grim flint]

And in my opinion this 25% is big. When i was fighting single chimera it was basically uh, ice hmm, uh, uh, ice hmm, uh etc. Imo 20 or even 15% would fit better but i feel alone in that case

[icy axle]

I think 20% would suffice

[frosty kelp]

@finite thistle i know your busy but can we get !rework back please with penny and some dummys ❤️

[vagrant kayak]

How is the math behind blazing greatsword right now? The hits I get on dummy are super odd. I assumed the damage was rolled and then afterwards divided into 50% fire, 50% physical, like „gz 50% of ur roll bypasses armor“. On a 0 defence target, physical and fire should then be identifal and the higher the targets armor, the more useful is fire and hence the sword. The numbers on dummy indicate something else though, 2 independant rolls? Idk.

[robust cave]

Its fire Bro, 90% Monster ARE imnunity

[noble torrent]

Eldrin, what about boosting somehow sheol reward for knights? There is simmilar discussion on archers thread. We were already saying that this 5% buff to shield is almost nothing, but also the weapon doesn't have any passive, right click or anything.

[finite thistle]

Weapon does have 9% swift striker property.

[raven surge]

the 5% shield buff is if we tank 2 mobs, och 3 and more shield breaks.so over 2 mobs theres no 5% shield buff

[noble torrent]

Maybe after mele buff it will make some difference cuz until now I didn't even notice cuz walking around full defense. And how about the other reward?

I did mention it before already. Any plans to rework it?

[noble torrent]

Can't we make it 1% all dmg reduction or anything usefull?

[finite lance]

Also what about the question to take elemental dmg into calculations for gouge? Do you think that would lead to a too strong buff?

[robust cave]

Only physical damage up gouge

[finite lance]

Atm it is like that, I know. But I’m asking to also take elemental damage into calculations as we‘re also taking +25% of elemental dmg.

[sage vapor]

is the strength attribute bugged?

[finite thistle]

Elaborate

[abstract blaze]

@finite thistle update will come before the new server?

[ivory wren]

Now i need to get 5 vast grip atts on my set. Chances are 15% +- per item. If i get the average chance i will spent 5,2kk. Sad

[grim flint]

It was mentioned mamy times but eldrin doesnt want to answer i dont know why

[finite thistle]

It is done on purpose. Instead, gauge generation is much higher (3 times higher than it should be)

[noble torrent]

Would be 3x better to generate it slower but from all dmg

[grim flint]

Yes i remember you raised speed of regeneration and i think its good. I dont Ask for making it faster but let it come from all sources at the same time it is now

[finite thistle]

No, it's on purpose to prevent it being overpowered when fighting against 8 targets at once. The limit of one hit per second can only work against physical damage.

[keen plaza]

In terms of business, it takes a lot of courage for @finite thistle and the Medivia team to do what they're doing, honestly. Any other game simply "pushes" the update and expects players to figure out how to adapt to the new changes, but they've given us an open channel to contribute - something I've never seen happen before.

Amidst all of this, we've achieved several important changes. The only thing that I think is missing is improving the Att Gouge and making the Gauge count all damage. Other than that, I can't wait to go back to hunting - I'm just training and waiting for the update. So I kindly ask that you stop commenting unless it's relevant feedback or reporting issues so that they can pay attention and release it as soon as possible.

[orchid tulip]

what about those creatures who hit twice? they give twice as much gouge ?

[finite thistle]

No, it's one physical hit per second.

[noble torrent]

Any comment what about the crusader knight bonus?

[finite thistle]

Elaborate, since I must have missed this feedback.

[vagrant kayak]

1v1‘ing alpha beasts with spell

[noble torrent]

Jump here

[vagrant kayak]

people are unhappy about the 5% more blocking reward, math apparently indicates its only 30 mitigated dmg effectively which is nothing at lvl 500 while mages mana regen goes brrrrrr

[finite thistle]

Ah, I thought about you meant crusader helmet, so I was a bit confused.

[grim flint]

Hmm ok now this makes sense but i hardly imagine how anyone could abuse it. Do you have any example in your head? Its hard to block more than 2 mobs with 2h defense +25% additional damage

[vagrant kayak]

teamhunt.

[finite thistle]

While teamhunting with druid.

[grim flint]

I see. That's probably because i hunt solo all the time 🥹

I think ppl prefer it as it is instead of making spell work only if not in party but with all dmg incoming?

[keen plaza]

I hunt solo all the time too, and i will never hunt again without this spell on!

[noble torrent]

So about the Promotion there is nothing to say? XP

[finite lance]

It’d just give us the option to use incurso in between, just like mages can use e.g. e-waves to attack more than 1 target at once (with longer breakers in between ofc) What’s so bad about it? 🫣 Or another idea: Take elemental dmg too but higher the dmg needed for 1 gouge? Would that be worth to think about?

[vagrant kayak]

I think it being physical only also has an advantage: it is easy to create knight hunting spots where they do well: first step: make monsters come 2 by 2. step 2: only physical dmg step 3: hardcore paralyze of doom 4. too much dmg for druid to tank. et voila: knight hunting spot that wont need nerfing because other vocations can abuse it

[robust cave]

Berserker and decimate with STR? @finite thistle

[split basin]

@obtuse shard summarized most spell multipliers for me in archer channel. For Knights, can we get the damage formula for berserk and decimate?

[obtuse shard]

Those are currently secret

Only Farrk knows it outside the dev team and he's not allowed to share it (otherwise he wouldn't have gotten the formula)
He has a calculator on Mediviastats for it though

[small tapir]

any reason why only one player is allowed to see formula?

[split basin]

That seems silly. Why be transparent about all damage formulas except those two?

[obtuse shard]

@finite thistle maybe time to reveal the formula now? Since you guys are being a lot more open about this stuff

[pulsar frigate]

so, knight have a new spell?

[valid dew]

Add it to compendium

[finite thistle]

baseDamage = (level * meleeSkill ^ 2) / (10 ^ 5)

Berserk:
min = 6 * baseDamage + 1.6 * level
max = 10 * baseDamage + 2.4 * level

min = min + strength * 0.5
max = max + strength * 1.0

Decimate:
min = 5 * baseDamage + 1.1 * level
max = 7 * baseDamage + 1.7 * level

min = min + strength * 0.45
max = max + strength * 0.65
```It may still change, though.

[obtuse shard]

is baseDamage floored before applied to Berserk / Decimate? Or only after Berserk / Decimate damage has been calculated

[finite thistle]

No, min&max is rounded down before rolling the damage.

[obtuse shard]

Or that's what I meant yeah, but baseDamage itself isn't floored then, gotcha 👍

[strange umbra]

At what time is the update?

[lucid light]

chill, let the man work, no rush

[rotund solstice]

Any thoughts on blocking with a 2 hander giving tries for the blocking skill Eldrin? Feels pretty bad having your blocking skill get left behind now that solo hunting most likely is gonna shift over to mainly 2 handers

[plain flare]

yeah atleast 50% speed of using a shield?

[runic prairie]

For those that want other damage than physical damage to generate rage in the Bloodlust Stance, what you're asking for is going to make the requirement for each rage generation increase by atleast 3 or 4 times, making your generation worse overall. Don't think of the rage generation as a main part of it, think of it as a bonus.
If you try to bite off more than you can chew, you'll end up worse off than it is currently.

[plain flare]

wise man

[noble torrent]

I hope it will cuz no str in the formula

[upper skiff]

is test server up?

[outer gulch]

yes

[upper skiff]

Knight feels okay

melee buff toned down; atk speed of 2h weapons normalized. using full suffering set and great axe on 460 ek, 116 skills+ gear 125 melee
11:37 Melee damage (strength: 221): 234->709 (old) => 417-856 (new). That's like 650-700 average, feels pretty good

@slim cape , @lofty saddle thoughts?

[valid dew]

Is that with 2 second per atk?

[tawdry ferry]

can u tell me what u mean by suffering set? i dont find any armor or legs named that way

[vagrant kayak]

under effect of new spell, that would be every 2 seconds, yes. getting full set of suffering though 😄

[split vessel]

18:43 Melee damage (strength: 66): 127->597 (old) => 240-649 (new)

18:45 Melee damage (strength: 66): 127->535 (old) => 226-551 (new) and this is after i changed set and eqiped the same one

why the max hit changed from 649 to 551 ?? cant understand with same set

[upper skiff]

yeah 2s swing timer

[upper skiff]

12:02 You see an armor of suffering (Arm:19+1).
It weighs 280.0 oz.
Attributes: Superior (1), Resistance (Elements, 2%), Vast Grip (29), Vitality (110), Resistance (Physical, 2%).

[frosty kelp]

@finite thistle is ice pheonix on test server, seems to be missing

[outer gulch]

@finite thistle map click seems bugged more than usuall on test server - especially town guards npc seems invisible to it

and also lvl bar or whatever is still not fixed, it shows negative xp till next lelvel

[finite thistle]

New client would be required, it's fixed, but there was no update on your clients.

[upper skiff]

Yo eldrin, quick question. Do you have any plans to gap fill for 2h axe weapons? currently it goes Blood curser(lvl340)-> great axe(420)->chaos axe(520). Greaxt axe and chaos axe are both incredibly time consuming to obtain, blood curser ends up being most realisticially obtainable 2h axe, any thoughts on that? alternate 2h axes planned for lvl 350-450?

[icy axle]

A better question is what is planned to balance the decisions to use axe/sword/club because currently you got weapons like chaos sword that is useless compared to the other 2 and same with the sheol axe compared to sword and club.

[upper skiff]

that's also on the table, i like crushing blow on 2h weapons it procs often enough and the 2h pers which gives skill buff is nice too

[icy axle]

Great Mace is the best in slot because you got crushing blow to battle critical strike on the great axe but you also have pers and berserk. Great longsword is just ass now with useless gouge and parry. Thing with parry is when you hunt with it the hits you do get hit by are so high that you gotta uh anyway.

[runic prairie]

gouge on 2h weapons
Swift Strike on a 2h would be sick though

[upper skiff]

I think the high end 2H swords should have swift strike

[icy axle]

The reality of the situation is that all weapons need to be revisited attribute wise. Gouge should be replaced with swift striker or something. There shouldnt be defensive stats on 2 handers imho such as parry or vitality anymore.

They need to make it known with a theme. If axes have crit strike they are best in slot against targets with low armor. If clubs have crushing blow they are best in slot against high armor targets. What do you do with swords?

[vagrant kayak]

2h swords are best for ember beetle, the gouge will finish them when they run away so u dont have to use lmm
edit: on a more serious note, i think swift strike on 2h is too strong

[icy axle]

Yeah I agree that’s why the last msg I said idk what to do with swords lol maybe you keep them defensively? Parry should be buffed to 5% on great and 6% on chaos you do this though.

Gouge needs to be reworked or removed though. That damage is op until level 50 then it becomes useless.

[valid dew]

Time for us to let us melt great items and disenchant attributed items for crystals

[dusky epoch]

what do u thinks will be the better options for solo and th? on weapons after update

[sinful tangle]

@finite thistle Consider changing gouge to scale with strength or weapon damage similarly to how the other two weapon types have attributes that scale, so swords can remain a competitive option.

[split basin]

I like the disenchant idea.

[sage vapor]

NERF AGAIN?? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

YESTERDAY Melee damage (strength: 90): 97->569 (old) => 211-613 (new)
NOW Melee damage (strength: 90): 97->475 (old) => 197-520 (new)

even at the end of the update a kinght will need to be hit with a pillow in his hand so as not to hurt the monster

[upper skiff]

what level are you @sage vapor

[sage vapor]

230

[vagrant kayak]

are you on full def or something? values unchanged for me lol. dont spread panic like this wtf

[sage vapor]

not same equipment, same weapon, same conditions, I only have this data because I wrote it down with prints from last night.

[finite thistle]

Your maximum old hit changed, you must be using a different weapon.

[sage vapor]

I relogged to make the prints the same I have yesterday's saves and it looks like magic but the damage is back to normal.... I don't know what the hell is going on.

[icy axle]

This could potentially work. So I could go to Grazlin and exchange my fully attributed great longsword for the same materials + a great painite crystal (a green painite crystal) that when used on a great weapon would unlock all attributes? Could do the same with the primordial fire weapons with a primordial painite crystal, so on and so forth...

Is something like this possible maybe?

[strange umbra]

Melting items for ores would be great too

[icy axle]

Would definitely help battle people with miners.

[strange umbra]

Randomly getting ores with a formula depending on mining skill (example, 5-15 gold ores for golden legs)

[valid dew]

not same, realistically u will lose like 30-50 heli bars maybe in the process

[robust cave]

Swords need balance

[rose swan]

@finite thistle Did you fix critical strike and crushing blow or they will be both bugged on live servers?

[valid dew]

is perch meal changed yet

[upper skiff]

@sinful tangle I tested dmg on a 120 Knight and got pretty solid damage figures, 150min to 550 max with a war axe

used to be you needed to be 150-160 ek with 100 skills to hunt poi dl, now you can smash it on any 100 ek with 90s skills after this buff. I was wearing gear not appropriate for my level also and despite getting less STR than i should have was still pretty solid

[sinful tangle]

I have been testing it a bit more and I agree with you. Though I dont plan on putting any cash into higher level armor pieces any time soon.

[upper skiff]

95 melee skills btw; used a ring and a meal and it increased my max dmg by about 80, 1handed damage was about what i expected with a full sca, 90-333 damage; will probably scale a bit better once this char is closer to 200

TLDR; its a good change, not super impactful on lower/mid lvls but its still a noticable increase in damage which will make low lvl exp less painful for knights

[finite thistle]

Elaborate, damage is too low?

[rose swan]

I once hit for 285 with crushing blow while having 500 minimum dmg....

[upper skiff]

it feels like critical damage is not hitting based on new damages, not sure how to explain it properly, averaging 700 hits on 460 ek and crit for the same, maybe unlucky and doing low hits but feels like something is off with the crit damage

[upper skiff]

Yeah its actually kinda gross penalty from using higher gear on lower lvl chars

[sinful tangle]

Also I'd like to see sword gouge get some love because only swift strike seem to scale with the EK.

[quaint siren]

Equipment matters boys 14:39 Melee damage (strength: 53): 108->708 (old) => 242-807 (new)
14:40 Melee damage (strength: 18): 108->708 (old) => 231-795 (new)

[upper skiff]

skill matters most of all

[sinful tangle]

It might make some people mad that invested in certain items. I know I put some money in as well. But on the whole this would allow for the world economy to see more use out of alot of other items. I like the idea of that.

[upper skiff]

for sure, imagine having full SCA on a 120 XD can't get the most out of it

[sinful tangle]

Its a nice balance between pay to win and keeping to the RPG feel of it. Always something to work toward. Welcomed change however painful.

[quaint siren]

How come "pay to win"? Do you mean "skill boost"?

[sinful tangle]

You can elect to 💳 a full set, but you will still have alot more to work toward beyond that. Whereas previously you would receive full benefit and this kind of takes away the joy of finding items later on.

[edgy lagoon]

Do anni and u can use it without caps

[sinful tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/impressive-very-nice-patrick-bateman-gif-15247511

[upper skiff]

oh ic

[lucid light]

Eldrin, did you look into this? Min damage was off from the formula provided (don't know if it's some error on the tooltip or the actual damage)

[coral ivy]

When will be this ek rework friday?

[lucid light]

Also, did you consider this please? Since skilling melee skills takes much more time than skilling distance. It's a fair point.

[icy axle]

Please consider balancing the weapon types. I understand you are very overwhelmed with everything you are doing to ensure the update is tonight, however, with the weapon merge and not being able to trade weapons for their sister version amongst sword, axe, and club, it creates an enormous imbalance based off of what weapon we chose before these changes. To sum it up again, axes are just about rendered useless in terms of 1 handers and swords the same as far as 2 handers. @finite thistle

[finite lance]

So what’s best for each one and two handers, is there really such a big difference? Didn’t check it myself yet

[icy axle]

It's immensely one sided for 1 handers. 1 extra attack and 5% crit is literally nothing compared to either 5% pers/5% parry. As far as 2 handers goes, with the 25% damage you take you are constantly having to heal and barely notice the 4% parry compared to the huge dps spike that the extra attack a great axe gives on top of the 5% crit. Really the great mace is better than both though due to it having crushing blow, berserk, and perseverance.

[valid dew]

all vocs fine, lets go!!! update at ss

[icy axle]

https://tenor.com/view/pumped-up-hype-gif-13746267

[lucid light]

So you consider archer time more valuable than knights time? Since they get skills (damage) much faster?

In fact, archers don't even NEED to sit around training, they get skills while hunting and also getting an edge on exp over the knights. Everyone that isn't knight main and didn't spend hundreds of hours training will be fast to ignore this fact, but it is a fact (and it is unfair IMO). I see there are three ways to balance this:
1 - adjust the formula so knights get a bit more boost in damage (considering higher time spent on training the skills). If Eldrin considers this too OP or unbalanced damage output:
2 - make knights gain melee skill faster (if not as fast as archers, at least faster), or...
3 - make archers gain distance skill slower... but unlike other people who are hellbent on sabotaging knight vocation for their own benefit, I don't think this is the best option.

[hardy eagle]

yes

[lucid light]

Appreciate your honesty

[quasi berry]

1. Knights hit harder then Paladins (there isnt 90 atk bolts)
2. as above
3. as above

[marsh tinsel]

ofc knight hit meelee and rp hit from distance, it makes sense that ek hits more

[static kite]

Do u forget about SD? XD

[quasi berry]

do you forgot about 9k hp?

[lucid light]

1. 90 atk weapon is an extreme outlier.
2. We now also take 25% more damage from all sources, the risk of death and loss of time and skills (damage) is much higher.
3. Archer also got a damage boost spell, they can party in 2 archers and wreck spawns

Also, bolts ignore shielding. Melee damage always gets a reduction from armor + shielding

[static kite]

U Just lied that knight hits harder, stop crying

[lucid light]

As I've said, those are not knight MAIN are quick to forget these small details. I just hope Eldrin to consider it.

[quasi berry]

they do hit harder, paladins got infinate SDs?

its impossible to talk to high rate players you all share the same brain cell all you care about is pumping your own vocation and nothing about balance

"oh paladin got a bit better i gotta be better too"

[static kite]

Main dmg from paladin are runes, especially SD. U cant ignore that, stop trolling pls

[quasi berry]

no its not thats the whole point of these paladin changes SDs was nerfed............

[marsh tinsel]

imagime if they nerf sd

[static kite]

No, u cannot be stupid like that. U are just trolling

[upper skiff]

remove paladins

[last pier]

remove weapons, runes and spells, only fists and natural regeneration 🫡

[static kite]

Chance to stun when fist fighting xD

[sinful tangle]

Paladins turned into Square class that carries all of the weapon options we have access to now.

[lime condor]

pinche puta guey

[pulsar frigate]

update tomorrow?

[plain flare]

update is said for this halloween

[lucid light]

Serious talk now, let's get some data. I'm assuming medivia staff never messed with the skills training time formula from pre-8.0 tibia, so I will use another site calculator for this comparison (since medivia wiki has no distance calculator, even they recognize archers training is a joke, anyway) so:

-EK needs 17871078 hits against 10722618 from archer to skill from skill 11 to 120. That's 1,66% longer time.

• Considering Elrin's formula: max = 5 + (attackSkill ^ 2) / 1550 * attackValue / attackFactor

just as @last pier mentioned, to equalize the vocations skill time, the "1550" of the formula should be adjusted to "959" (1600 / 959 = 1,66%), however that would also make knight damage too OP with end game weapons. Example: skill 120 with 90 atk weapon would max hit **841 **with 1550 value and 1355 with 959 value (not counting strength). Maybe that's how Eldrin's formula worked on the first day of the test server. How about something in the middle? A 1400 would net a total damage of 931. It's not that broken, is it?

They could also lower the time knights take to gain skill to mitigate this difference (say, from 1.66% longer to 1.2% longer than archers). This could also help lower lvl knights to progress a bit faster and help end games knights to have a bit more damage based on skills.

[icy axle]

The real problem isn't the rate at which archers advance in distance, it's the fact that they still advance in shielding the same speed as knights do.

[late heron]

Eldrin, please could we get a confirmation that the damage coming from critical strike and crushing blow is indeed using the updated formulas?

[robust cave]

You have to improve the att gouge or change it for something decent, this only works for lvl 100-

[prisma crypt]

I hit 255 on Demon, and the minimum damage shown with Demonic Ax is 322, not to mention that it has the Demon Slayer attribute, is that right?

[sinful tangle]

Demons armor

[silver summit]

thats before armor reduction probably

[robust cave]

swift strike in 2h swords when? XD

[plain flare]

[abstract blaze]

@finite thistle to use angelic legs we will need to do white light faction? it will be a requirement?

[robust cave]

ax has crit and berserker, club has crushblow and perseverance, don't you think sword needs something more?

and att that increase skills are an absurd increase in damage

[dusky epoch]

demonic axe still gonna have the same atts?

[robust cave]

yes

[dusky epoch]

after update gonna have the same rates for atts? i want to put my axe full but idk if try now or after upd

[robust cave]

idk too

[icy axle]

I don't think, I know swords need something. Removing gouge or making it scale with your skills would be a start, and something else to replace parry, but swift striker on a good 2 handed sword would be too op I think.

[plain flare]

yeah its true

[plain flare]

for sure. being lvl 500+ and hit twice for 1500 each hit

[robust cave]

needs something well thought out, but needs to be improved indeed!

[dapper stag]

I'm under the impression parry has a chance to work on all incoming physical attacks. in a 1v1 scenario its not very likley, but when blocking multiple creatures this att becomes solid.

[icy axle]

Right, but because we now take 25% increased damage, we are still healing a lot. I was saying it should be buffed to the corresponding % of its counterparts, not falling below.

[sinful tangle]

Scale gouge

[icy axle]

If so, buff critical strike and crushing blow.

[hearty thistle]

crushign blow is reaaaaaaaaally useless

[plain flare]

yeah but my point is swift striker is so op for 2h xd

[dapper stag]

There were a few posts previous advocating the replacement of the parry attribute entirely on the basis of it being sub par. If % parry = % physical resistance (averaged over time) then its a very solid attribute. On a side note, with the 25% increase in damage taken, the parry attribute will work even better.

[icy axle]

You would think that on paper but after testing myself the 25% increase to damage has me healing so often that I can barely notice the difference, at least as a 290 ek.

[jaunty maple]

congratulations medivia staff !! knight now will be very fun to play !! VERY NICEEEEEE , that new spell is SO GOOD , i was playing in ek lvl 260 .. WTF , its so good .. nothing to say , just that.. perfect work to bring that spell !! LOVELY !! i cant stop playing as knight rightnow with 2 handed.. its so fucking good ! its feelling soooooooooo goooooooooooood 🤣

[strange umbra]

I don’t understand about vast grip anymore, I have the items with vast grips but my skills are the same, can someone explain please ?

[quaint siren]

vast grip adds power dmg? i think - check ur spellpower

[noble torrent]

It was transformed into str attribute. It increase your mele.and runes dmg. Only difference is it have not impact on incuso spells

[grim flint]

Yee weapons atts need rework for sure. Im swords user sadly and have executioners sword. It has executor att which isnt so strong, gouge good until lvl 100-150 and parry which in current formula bloodstance doesnt help.. i think i need to invest into demonic axe if i want to hunt with new method

[rose swan]

Both crushing blow and critical is fixed, can confirm

[frosty kelp]

fixed in what way

[vagrant kayak]

parried dmg goes into fury points according to eldrin. imho parry is not that bad when blocking 2-3 you have a relatively high chance of blocking attacks. i am with brian though that it could potentially be increased by 1-2% to further establish the more defensive role of swords and to make up for it being a „no-dmg“-attribute on a 2h

[grim flint]

As i can see this now, max what i plan to block with 2h is 2 mobs and most probably it will be 1 mob

[vagrant kayak]

solo sure, but using 2h on teamhunt is already a thing and it will remain a thing; to which extent under influence of spell is to be seen. also on monsters with high defence, block and shoot explo instead may result in a dmg boost as well

[finite lance]

I think it’s been said before @finite thistle .. mapclick seems not to work properly on Testserver. Whenever a monster is straight infront of me my character won’t run around but just stop and it says there’s no way.

[valid dew]

Spell will be good for frost dragons!!

[vagrant kayak]

frosts, hydra, dl is all better with it. i know, this wont do much for highlvls but for lvl 100-250+ its a massive buff and thats precisely the lvl range where knights needed a push

[hardy eagle]

Knight fixed? Or I can still break poi dls on 170 ek melee only 3 uh per lap?

[past swan]

I think that Archer and Knight should have an aura of some specific color when the new spells are active. Similar to the utamo of the mages

[last pier]

It was white, did they change it?

[plain flare]

make it red aura

[finite thistle]

Maybe in the future, currently the white outline shader is there, because of the increased damage status. Each resistance up or down status gives white outline shader. It's an outdated system and needs a rework at some point, but it is not a priority at the moment.

[plain flare]

true

[dusky ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-kaioken-dragon-ball-z-super-saiyan-gif-10187999

[rose swan]

These atts used old formula, now using proper new formula.
For example crushing blow could hit for 285 while minimum dmg from auto attack was ~500.

[frosty kelp]

oh very nice, cheers for explaining 🙂

[cyan basin]

normal dummy doesnt heal in test server

[lucid light]

sorry, wrong post

My dude, can you confirm if the min damage was fixed in tooltip and actual damage? I'm locked out of TS

[eternal mural]

u realize monsters got shielding and armor right?

[lucid light]

What? It has nothing to do with that. Read the guy's message. Min damage is(was) showing incorrect value in the tooltip when compared to the formula, I don't know if practical damage was also incorrect. Dummies have shield/armor too? (legit question). If they do, how can you test min damage accurately?

[quasi berry]

dummies are 0 armor

[coral ivy]

Tomorrow update?

[abstract blaze]

i hope so

[lucid light]

@finite thistle Sorry to tag, I just wanted to know if you have read and considered this. I know the formula was updated to max = 25 + (attackSkill ^ 2) / 1550 * attackValue / attackFactor, but it will barely affect the final result. Thanks.

[robust cave]

STR on berserker and decimate formula? @finite thistle

[finite thistle]

See previous messages.

[robust cave]

Can tag pls?

[sinful tangle]

I dont have bloodlust stance anymore. Where can I learn it

[coral ivy]

So now will be more important lvl or skills?

[edgy lagoon]

skills

[analog surge]

maybe it could be possible to show what max dmg u can do when u shift click a wepon? 🙂

[edgy lagoon]

this would be good

[plain flare]

x2

[icy axle]

The problem with Parry is that knights can now team hunt as a dps role, however, sword is the only weapon with a defensive attribute rendered now useless and will lower potential exp/hour compared to both club and axe.

The same problem lies with 1 handed axes, they provide zero defensive attribute and will not help when team hunting as a blocker whereas both clubs and swords do and will provide more profit on hunts.

My suggestion to fix this is to revisit all attributes and ensure that 1 handed weapons provide defensive attributes and two handed weapons provide offensive attributes. The balancing side will be in the hands of the devs. I will say though that gouge can be a really good attribute for two handed swords if it scaled with your characters skill/damage output rather than a fixed number.

What if you replaced parry with a flatrate armor penetration as you did with the annihilator bow from Sheol? Maybe replaced critical strike on 1 handed axes with guardian to increase your shielding even more?

Correct me if I am wrong but the mirror shield seems to be a knight shield yet useless because of how low the defense is. Shouldn't it be buffed as well as add some other attributes that other shields have?

[runic prairie]

Have parry as a counterattack with 2h swords, when it triggers you deflect the damage and do a strike back.

[vagrant kayak]

i would rather 1h axes stay the same for 3x3 solo hunts. ur suggestions for 2h swords sound op, i like charles idea better. edit: in the end, with skill merge, weapons certainly need an overhaul and balancing will be in the hands of dev in the end, but i am against strict one dimensional solutions

[upper skiff]

this is pretty solid idea actually

[icy axle]

It still doesn't help with teamhunting though and fucks sword users over for teamhunts

[upper skiff]

you argued that swords only have a defensive role in teamhunt, how does this fuck over sword users? you'd reflect an attack and apply a counterattack swing in return, with new formulas id argue thats a solid increase to DPS while still reflecting/ the dmg you would've received

[trail steeple]

and if you have more than 1 creature hitting you its higher chance to proc attribute than others from specific weapon types

[upper skiff]

I think this is honestly a solid solution; TLDR Change Parry to Counter for 2H swords

[grim flint]

Im still fan of making 1 weapon family cleeve, would be fun

[icy axle]

I'm saying if Knight A is blocking for a teamhunt and Knight B is dpsing with a sword that attribute is just for show as he will never be blocking the monster whereas perseverance, crushing blow, and critical strike all increase the dps of knights

[trail steeple]

ah in this very specific scenario yeah

[upper skiff]

We've already proved that the only situation where that applies is with Dreadlords, everything else bloodlust stance was able to survive with

[icy axle]

I don't think you understood my comment.

[trail steeple]

They should allow people to do a 1 time change for these weapons in case you wanna swap your great sword for great axe, would only be fair imo

[icy axle]

I think it can be a good feature if you allow the changing of weapons that have sister weapons, but if they really are against that then yes they should offer the exchange at the very least.

[upper skiff]

IF you're blocking in full def in a teamhunt, ofc you will have less blocking strength if you don't have perseverence, damage isnt even a factor here, you'd be in defense so critical strike and crushing blow are irrelevant in a full blocking situation, what do you mean exactly?

[runic prairie]

Brian wants one to be able to be a pure dps, not have to take any damage and still get the most out of it. Personally I like my counter idea as it gives a purpose to 2h swords which they currently don't have one that stands out.

If you want to purely dps, you can go with an axe, it has crit which lends itself perfectly to that role.

[upper skiff]

I think being able to have 2 of 3 weapon attributes in 1 weapon of your choice is OKAY, but having all weapon type special attributes is overkill

[icy axle]

You still are not understand my statement.

Knight A: Blocking
Druid: Healing
Sorcerer: Dps
Knight B: Dps using a great mace
Knight C: Dps using a great longsword

The knight using the great mace has perseverance, crushing blow, and berserk, all of which increase his damage ultimately increasing the teams exp/hour. The knight using the great longsword has gouge and parry, both are useless when teamhunting in this role, and both are for show is what I meant as they don't increase the exp/hour at all.

Same situation applies to 1 handed axe users compared to clubs and swords when tanking.

[upper skiff]

OH you mean as a pure DPS role, not blocking role. ERgh yeah ofc you will have less DPS without critical strike or crushing blow

The only real solution to that is if they changed attribute system to allow us to choose which attributes we want on our weapons

[sand jackal]

guys, ive done some testing the last 2 days... using hailstorm... i had a feeling that using sword i regenerated more rage and used more incursos... is that real or just impression?

[icy axle]

My point being is people already chose weapons based on what weapon skill their knight was before this update. We also invested hundreds of millions of gold into attributes that are now rendered useless after this update. It's bad enough that we need to invest hundreds of millions of gold into our already fully attributed gear because of the addition of vast grip (which really should be a property), at least let us change these weapons for their sister version as we would if this update was live when we got our weapons in the first place.

[upper skiff]

So you could attribute your great sword with critical, crushing blow if you wanted max dps intended for your weapon

[icy axle]

Precisely.

[runic prairie]

Why have a great sword then if it doesn't matter what attributes items have.

[icy axle]

Because my knight was a sword user. Why would I make an axe or a club if I have 100 sword fighting and 10 axe and club?

[austere mantle]

just sell the sword

[upper skiff]

Because its unfair to old players that are already heavily invested into their weapon choice prior to skill merge etc

[runic prairie]

Your argument is going to be about a retrofit after the update. I understand that. I don't see a point to it otherwise.

[upper skiff]

Nobody would buy it if club/axe are BIS for both solo and teamhunt

[icy axle]

It would be a nice twist on the game if you were able to choose what attributes you wanted on your weapons though. Imagine someone who hunted solo all the time put Parry 5% and Perseverance 5%?

[runic prairie]

Why have so many different weapons then. Just pick the one of the 3 among the quest or crafting you are doing that has the highest attack, then fit it with the best attributes.

[upper skiff]

yes, exactly. This is literally what eks are asking for

[icy axle]

I agree, however, they were talking about making different weapon classes provide different uses. For example, axes having the highest damage output, clubs dealing aoe damage, and swords being defensive. The problem here lies with the same problem I stated though, they need to allow people to have the oppertunity to interchange weapons that have sister versions.

[upper skiff]

yeah if their intention is to make each weapon class have vastly different playstyle/advantages it would only make sense to allow people to swap their weapon types

[runic prairie]

Yeah, just open up to swapping between the 3, as long as they do in fact have sister versions. Thinking of Vampiric, Primordial, Great, Chaos and probably a few others.

[icy axle]

I'm not saying to swap a demonic axe for an executioners sword btw, but things like primordial fire where you have all 3, great weapons, etc.

[vagrant kayak]

Change Block to Reflect, Swords remains tankiboy and yet deals extra damage. Brian is dominando on a dead server, he can farm a new great axe within a few weeks if he wants to go on a 3 knight teamhunt with him being the dps knight lol

[tawdry ferry]

Hey guys i have an Demonic Axe with Critical, Haste and Berserk.. U think its worth to get it Full ATT?

[vagrant kayak]

yes, lean is a very useful attribute, u get cap for 14 more uh runes and demon slayer is super strong because everyone hunts demons with 2h

[upper skiff]

yeah craftable weapons, meteorite, great, prim weapons, even sheol weapons

[lime nimbus]

Isn't parry super useful when blocking with new spell?

[sinful tangle]

Did anyone else lose bloodlust stance on the test server?

[grim flint]

I would prefer attacking att instead of it. On the other hand im curious what other changes gonna be except classes balance

[icy axle]

Read the last 20 messages above

[hearty thistle]

Is crushing blow working properly?

[icy axle]

It is now yes

[noble torrent]

Any info about change in incurso formula so it's based on str partly too?

[vagrant kayak]

#1112345846839787631 message

[tawdry ferry]

i didnt elaborate well but the thing is if take the risk to get it full att trying to get flawless xD

[vagrant kayak]

on 3x, sure go for it, you randomly find millions of gold in your dp every other day, on 1x i would always buy full and shift risk of super unlucky on someone else

[finite lance]

3x worlds isn’t über profitando! 1x is +/- 0, so.. 3 x 0 = ??? So there you go and got the proof!1!1!1!!!

[lucid light]

Ok knights, so the patch is scheduled for tomorrow. This might be our last chance to adjust this, I doubt the staff will mess with damage formula for a good while after this. Attributes are important too, but Eldrin already said he is working on it. What I'm talking about is base damage, that will affect everyone in the game. Knights gain skill slower than archers. The formula is unbalanced in favor of archers. I'm not saying to equalize both vocations or make knight OP, just an slight adjustment to compensate for this difference in skilling time. Or maybe to make knights gain melee skill a bit faster. The old training formula is REALLY old. The way things are, archers will always get "free damage" over the knights, because of much higher skills. Does this make sense or nobody cares? Remember, this might be our last chance to change this.

[vagrant kayak]

archers gain skills quicker but have less attack on their weapons, in the end it evens out, it's just fine

[finite lance]

Do Palas and knight gain the same dmg with +1 skill?

Im just with @icy axle it shouldn’t be that Palas advance in shielding as fast as knights do.. especially now when skills matter even more.

[rotund solstice]

just please let knights advance in blocking when using a two hander, perhaps at half rate or something

[strange umbra]

Don’t touch the length of skills, I have been training for 3 years, 8+ hours

[quaint siren]

x2, ek skills are hard to get just leave the formula as it is

[strange umbra]

No way lol, we haven’t wasted literally years of training so everyone can get skills in half the time, are you serious?

[narrow parrot]

[lucid light]

"Said the archer". Be honest man, you know the truth. 1- You guys also got a new damage spell that for sure will be abused somehow. 2- bolts ignore shielding while melee don't. 3-Attack from distance while we pay with blood + risk of death. Look, I'm not asking for much. Is there a good reason why distance has to increase so much faster than melee? Specially now that skills will matter a lot more in damage (thank God)? We are talking 1.6 times faster here, almost double the time to reach the same skill. It's an old system and this is a new game. I'm proposing to reduce the time for knights to reach same skills as archer, or increase the damage a bit to compensate for this huge gap in time. Think about it, we also have to sit our asses training while archers get this edge on skill by just bolting and hunting.

[lucid light]

Dude, your argument makes zero sense, besides being completely selfish. If you trained all this time you already have an edge over everyone else on skills, from here on out you will just get even stronger. No one will catch up to you. Or you want to be weaker?

[strange umbra]

They will get so close to me in half the time, the formulas for knight are pretty good right now

We have so much more hp than pallys, ofc they have to hit harder

[obsidian bough]

It's a sunk cost. You still gain the benefit moving forward so you would still be at an advantage

[hearty thistle]

the game is not only about you mate 😉

So..at the end EK remains almost the same for solo hunt...crap XP per hour compared with Archers, Druid and Mage. If you are a solo player you are fu****..

[runic prairie]

You ask to get skills at the same rate paladins do, you end up getting it. Eldrin then proceeds to reduce the amount of damage you gain per skill because you now gain skill faster. You end up at a worse spot than you were before.

[pulsar frigate]

so its gonna be a buff for knights...?

[late heron]

Yeah what the hell... The team here has put a lot of effort into balancing the two vocations this week. Changing something fundamental like skilling rate would undermine it completely

[sand jackal]

Idk man, im tested my ek 302 on test server... Made 2.1kk solo breaking resp...

[upper skiff]

idk what testing you've done but eks have been buffed very nicely with this change

Tested on 120 EK, 460 EK; this is the most you could expect from a tank class. idk what you're crying about tbh

[sand jackal]

Also theres alot more hunts we can go now that wasnt viable ... U gotta explore and test diferent hunts... Think outside the box... Its way more fun now

[icy axle]

The only other changes I can see that are needed are in regards to being able to swap sister weapons and having attributes affected by your skills.

As far as skill advance formulas go, I would either say to nerf archers blocking advance rate as they should not be able to advance the same as tanks do, or buffing knights skill advances in both melee and blocking so that they both advance as fast as archers distance currently does.

It's just really fucking weird to me that the archer vocation can wear some of the best in slot tank gear and advance in blocking as fast as a knight does.

[hearty thistle]

which spot?

[robust cave]

gouge needs to be redone, all clubs and axes have attributes that increase skill and this increases damage a lot, maybe having the parry apply a counter attack would help to even it out

executor could also be with a higher amount of life

[real sparrow]

executor on 10% is so bad

[icy axle]

Executor, Gouge, Haste, Tomb Raider, Fortitude, the list goes on

[robust cave]

@finite thistle executor could not improve a little? Maybe 30%

[finite lance]

„A little, like 30%“.. Please stop making us look stupid by asking for a 30% buff..

[vagrant kayak]

you seeing this @hardy eagle ? archers call me a knight, knights call me an archer. so much for me being a biased archer hating knight main

[strange umbra]

Executor is fine

[hardy eagle]

The current damage is balanced around top 1k knights and archers skills therefore it does not matter who trains faster or slower. If archer would be gaining skills 10x faster (we would have archers with 250-300 distance) Eldrin would balance the damage around that as well.

[upper rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-the-moment-weve-all-been-waiting-for-john-carmichael-hanna-weve-been-waiting-for-this-day-today-is-the-day-weve-been-expecting-gif-23891783

[plain flare]

https://tenor.com/view/today-stuart-little-run-gif-11168162

[icy axle]

@finite thistle Can you replace gouge on the great longsword with gods wrath?

[hollow moon]

@finite thistle why emberwake ring don't have strength ?

[rotund solstice]

both melee rings and meals changed to strength instead of skill? 😮

[finite thistle]

Emberwake ring did not provide any skill.

[finite thistle]

Yes.

[frosty kelp]

@finite thistle Dummys could do with a slight buff in healing, fisting it and im killing it on full def

[icy axle]

I think the glowing affect on characters are a nice add but I feel each should have its own color. Right now, this white color is there for reckless assault, barbel, druid rod, druid elemental resist, etc.

Maybe make like yellow/blue/purple etc for different things

[slim cape]

@finite thistle please increase dummy target to 2000 hp and increase chance for healing, it is impossible to skill on high levels now

[rose swan]

What mephitic upgrade give now? only +1% physical?

[finite thistle]

Strength too.

[robust cave]

Berserker and perseverance weapons > ALL swords

[grim flint]

Why do you say swift striker would be too op on 2h sword? Im sure additional hit could be limited for example to 70% od your max hit. We see something simikar in axes critical hit but there is min. 75%

[hearty thistle]

a bit off topic, but since EK is the one that most suffer with this, Please check this feedback, for servers with hotkeys this can work fine for all vocation.

"Mouse Over" Option for Hotkeys

[icy axle]

I don't think it would be op anymore. I thought it would be op based on my damages testing crushing blow and critical strike but apparently they were bugged and hit with the old formula. It would work with the new formula I think.

[robust cave]

Quero ver quem vai usar sword nessa bosta

[lucid light]

Then you are probably a mage

[cobalt imp]

would be nice to see fury under character name

[lucid light]

It's cool, you guys won. Time will tell who was right.

[upper rapids]

solo ek is the new meta

[slim cape]

Yes, we finally got some love. Now we wont need others, as it was supposed to be 🙂

[orchid tulip]

i wanna see some knights of my server/team to do their royalists, it was so sad to see them struggling to kill that little fucker thousand times

[hardy eagle]

Logic won if anything

[lucid light]

Anyway, melee ring changing from skill to 8 STR. That is 2 damage. C'mon... I'm sure you agree with that too, right dip? Since your logic is flawless.

[robust cave]

Really is melee ring or STR ring? Wtf

[grim flint]

At the test server i was happy because it gave me 51 to max dmg so i was happy of making meals and using rings. But now again it doesnt look so good

[robust cave]

put an attribute on swords to improve skills man, ax has it, club has it. sword is completely shit, they still take the melee ring skill to make the situation worse

[valid turret]

@finite thistle are there going to be changes to Demonic Axe or The Bloodcurser? Bloodcurser is higher level but still worst than Demonic

[keen plaza]

@finite thistle the melee rings are not showing in my Skill window the bonus, its working? i tryied with 3 different types

[robust cave]

Not give 4 melee skills, only 8 STR this shit

[keen plaza]

lol, so the ring become useless?

[rose swan]

its fine for mid-late game, if you're not using ring of purity, basicly useless on low lvl

[meager nimbus]

Try testing with decimate with and without the ring

[keen plaza]

No sense! The rings are one the bests metods to upscale the dmg and now will gimme 1-2 max hit and 20 + spellpower? damn it!

[robust cave]

UP @finite thistle

[north yoke]

Any chance to revert the changes on vampiric weapons and make them only lose power/strength if you don't match the level required? 'You are too weak to wield this living weapon. It has consumed a portion of your life force.'

[north yoke]

from 100 to 250 in a single update feels like a huge gap

[robust cave]

what's funny is the knights selling all two handed swords for making themselves inferior to other types of two handed weapons like axes and clubs. you can see in the trade until the greatsword being sold haha

the difference between them is clear, the better the swords!!

give the possibility to increase skills for 10 seconds too, put cleave something like that, or everyone will do the same thing, use axe and club

and even nerfed the ice sword that even though it worked on many animals, it was still elemental damage that does not work on several like Frost dragon, giant revenant, Frostmaiden ... increases 10% in elemental to make life easier for those who still want to use it sword

in addition to not having the possibility to hunt giant energy elemental anymore

[vagrant kayak]

can you screenshot the weapon from live server? im curious if it got buffed since testserver

[blazing moon]

hello guys i have a question , im a ek lvl 255 and im hitting more damage with mephitic armor clean ( which gives me 12/16 strengh ) + mephitic legs clean ( gives me 12/16 strengh ) than a angelic plate mail with vast grip ( gives me 15/19) + angelic legs clean ( gives me 17 strengh) , but when i take a look in angelic legs appears like this, maybe cause im level below 320 ( and hasn t finished white light fction yet) i dont get any strengh bonus from it, maybe its that right?

[lofty saddle]

Angelic legs require 320lvl or finished white light faction, if u don't have any of these they just won't give u anything. or am i wrong? @finite thistle

I might be wrong actually, tagged the expert.

[last pier]

Vampiric weapons have no sense now, with such lvl requirment pple will just go from annihilator weapons to primordial fire ones

[rose swan]

Can we have some weak weapons to train? I'm killing gargoyles on full def with crowbar

[silver summit]

Whats crowbar attack? I remember Eldrin saying that weapons with 15 atk or less wouldn't have the new formula applied (or something like that)

[finite thistle]

It's just minimum damage and strength bonus that does not apply to weapons with attack 15 or lower. Maximum hit formula is still applied to these weapons.

[hasty needle]

So Vasp grid adding to str now ?. Not to skills ?.

[hard night]

Just use Fist, it should work towards skill too

[rain berry]

You're wrong, if you dont meet requirements you won't get full strength, but you'll still gain something, as displayed in the angelic platemail (28 out of the 35 strength is being gained)

[north yoke]

ye, no one will buy 'em and no one will use 'em, primordial is way better, and everyone that completed sorrowful blood quest, will have primordial weapons

[lofty saddle]

I see, it gives spellpower to my noobchar so should work. Btw Requirements Level should be removed, only confuses people.

[outer gulch]

^
Just keep 'Item level' as a certain level on which you will start getting 100% of stats. Info about it scaling down if you are lower level if you hover your mouse over it

[coral ivy]

How hailstorm can we worst then demonic axe cant belive .. idk why was nerfed same like blazing great sword ppl waststed money for nothing

[noble torrent]

Hey, why deciminate was nerfed?

[robust cave]

Exactly what I mean, I didn't have to nerf so much!

why not move little by little? Do you have to reduce it by 50%?

swords are already weaker in terms of attack attributes, so they end up with the only one that would do

melee ring doesn't change anything on berserk's damage
@finite thistle

[small tapir]

because its no longer incresing skill

[finite thistle]

Check again. Or you may have such a combination of level, skills and strength that extra strength does not affect damage of this spell.

[vagrant kayak]

increase fury bar please, to 200 or 250; i wanna be able to better manage when i use my incursos; having to unload it all the time without much opportunity to choose right moment is unsatisfying

[robust cave]

sword is literally unusable, better att or adjust the gigantic nerf in hailstorm

[small tapir]

I dont think it can be much higher because then knights could do more exoris one after another with full mana

[finite thistle]

The cap is intended and will stay this way. You have 25 points to delay the spell cast, or you can use decimate to not to lose damage by hitting the cap.

[vagrant kayak]

okis

[pulsar frigate]

my demnic axe is red e.e

[robust cave]

because left vast grip

[pulsar frigate]

%? to enchant?

[keen plaza]

@finite thistle You changed something, and it was a big change from the test server to the live server, turned my knight REALLY BAD! On the test server, using the exact same set I have with Fury Gauge, I was able to solo Holibar in 30 seconds, max 1 minute. I killed 3 now on live server, spending 100 UHs for each one and tons of explo, and I had to give up on the last one because I had already spent 120 UHs and he still had full health! I'm a level 239 knight with 111 skill using the Hellforged set without the Vast Grip yet, but I tested it exactly like this on the test server, using an Executioner's Full. I tried switching and using the (SOV), and then I couldn't hit anything! Something changed drastically, and I didn't feel any difference in the three hunts I've tested so far, just a huge waste of UHs to gain 10-15% more experience.

[vagrant kayak]

I feel equally strong as last day of test, are you maybe refering to day 1 of test when knights hit for 2k?

[keen plaza]

Na bro i'm talking about yesterday teste

[finite thistle]

Nothing changed about formulas since yesterday. Are you sure you are using the same gear, you have the same skill and level?

[static kite]

I have same feelings

[keen plaza]

Now i'm "stronger" in test server yesterday i'm level 229, now i'm 239, skill in test 108, now 11. The unicque gear have changed is the angelic boots, in test i using a fullm, and live i dont have vast on this item.

[sinful tangle]

Are you in full defense?

[finite thistle]

All I can tell you is that nothing changed. Dummies on test server had no armor or defense, and monsters have both armor and defense. Same applies to information that you received when using a weapon. They were raw values without taking any armor or defense of target into account.

[hasty needle]

Seems bosses monsters hit like a truck now. same with moreius

[keen plaza]

Full atack bro, teste with 1 handed, 2 handed without gauge, with gauge. In the test i solo its really easy, now just i sayed, wasted 120 uhs and cant kill him, have to kill one of summon and run out.

[finite thistle]

Nothing changed about damage of these creatures too.

[pulsar frigate]

vast grip gives 14 strenght in all items?

[keen plaza]

I don't know what's happening, but I tested extensively to see if I could complete the task without a shooter during the test server, and I was able to do it easily in every attempt. I killed him effortlessly. Now I'm extremely frustrated to spend 120 UHs and almost 5 minutes in his room, using a ton of explosions, and still not being able to take his health down from full. I don't think it's fair. I understand he's a boss, but on the test server, I could kill him. Something has changed, and it's for the worse.

And the npc of the boat on the temple of yehsha isnt working clicking with the right button, have to say "hi, yehsha, yes".

[drowsy thorn]

How vest grip works now?

[keen plaza]

In the test server yesterday i also hunted Alphabeast betting 1,2kk hours exp, today on live server i reach only 800-900, i knowm they are hitting thons of more dmg, with a hellfroged set and the executioners i taking about 800-1k hit in a turn, idk why, but seem the fury gauge are making me taking so much more dmg than the test.

[lucid light]

Eldrin, please reconsider the melee rings. I know strength boosts spellpower too and it is more significant in rune's damage than phys, but this is the melee ring, not the spellpower ring. It gives 2 flat phys damage.

[vagrant kayak]

hes not wrong, they dont do much for melee now. maybe reduced skill gain (2 instead of 4?) would be more appropriate?

[vocal quail]

has something been adjusted to the dummies already?

[sinful tangle]

Saw this one coming. Thought it was strange too

[lucid light]

• Range of 'Decimate' spell was decreased from 2m to 1m.

Man... knights really are the bottom of the barrel. Maybe that's why I like this vocation so much, it mirrors the struggles in real life lol

[grim flint]

Revert melee ring from str to melee skill +1 from me. @finite thistle could you please explain what's the reason behind that change?

[vagrant kayak]

same applies for meals btw, rather reduce skill gain than turn it into STR which for the most part increases rune power, not melee dmg

[latent canopy]

There wouldn't even be a point to use the food / ring if it stays the same. Its a total of 6 min melee damage, 7 max melee damage to have ring and food going

[noble torrent]

Idk but it's allways about small number, the sum of it makes difference

[upper ridge]

( having a bad time with this frostwind lol.. ) some wpns have 50% sucess all the way right ?

[orchid tulip]

what is the issue?

[upper ridge]

was more of a question. is frost wind in special hard to attri ? can it get some love in the %

[quasi berry]

18.75 < 25.0 your trying to hit harder results

[orchid tulip]

frostwind may have lower vast grip but thats because you still can wear a good shield and with both into account that would mean more STR than void mace, item level are another factor for the chance.

[upper ridge]

190lvl frostwind ( it has 1 att - 23%) lvl 215 void mace ( 3 attribues - 35% )

im just gonna use another wpn tbh

[orchid tulip]

i could say more about but you prob would rather a answer from devs at this point

[pulsar frigate]

mages 270 hitting 700 on sd, i think its broken lol

[trail steeple]

how come so low? probably bad gear and/or mlvl

I gained about 100~ average sd damage with this update

[orchid tulip]

me too at level 300 100min/150max dmg on druid 300 ml 93.

[keen plaza]

@finite thistle I try to imagine how much effort you guys are putting into restructuring the game, and I admire and appreciate it. It's one of the best games I've ever come across. However, you gave us hope and then took it away. Mages were already strong, and now they're even stronger. Among the 10 real friends I play with, I'm the only knight. Obviously, no one wants to play as a knight because, with the same amount of effort, a mage can hunt Shadow Drakes, spending MCs, and make absurd experience and profit. The druid is hunting Azures, getting 2kk/hr of experience and 3kk of loot every 4 hours of hunting, while I'm making 500k/hr, sometimes 900k/hr when I go after Tar Priests or Warlocks.

So far, it's okay. The life of a knight has always been tough. We've always had to make loot bags and level up much slower than any other vocation. But now, you're not allowing me, a level 240 knight with skill 111 and the best sword obtainable in the game so far, fully imbued, to solo a boss from a level 75 quest. It's just not fair! Any other vocation can go there and do it effortlessly. I spent five minutes fighting, and I had to give up because I simply couldn't lower his health. It was a dream to have the Mithril Hammer, but who will give up what they're doing to spend 40 hours waiting with me for the respawn just to complete the task?
No balancing will ever be perfect, but you made what was already strong even stronger and provided options that, for the majority of players, I believe are unfeasible. You even took away our rings, which were the only thing that could enhance our power, replacing them with ones that give more spell power. Come on, I chose to be a knight to fight, to be a melee powerhouse. Now I have a tank that hits harder with runes. To me, that makes no sense. I just hope that if there's no fix, the bazaar will be released soon so that I can sell this knight and play as a mage to experience the game's content.

[trail steeple]

Did you try killing it going full mana and poting asap spaming decimate?

The thing Holibar heals quite often and if you cant do 800+ damage each turn it probably overheal your damage, I was soloing ti as lvl 607 and sometimes when i stoped spamming expls to heal he would heal more than the damage I was doing only with melee

[keen plaza]

I killed 3 bosses and wasted 360 uhs for this my friend, tryed with gauge, tryed withou, tryied whit one handed.

[trail steeple]

But did you try as I stated? going full mana, two handed, spaming decimates as much as you can and keeping the mana pot on cooldown?

you need bigger damage input thats why you are strugling to solo it, either you are healing too often so you throwing too little expl/decimate or you lack the damage to burn his hp faster than it heals

[eternal mural]

trying to solo holibar on 230 is probably your issue in the first place

[keen plaza]

Now i soloed runing, wasted 50 uhs

[plain flare]

true

[runic nova]

It would be nice if the bloodlust stance would be on/off with no timer. Also making skills have a better effect on melee dmg and exori instead of runes.

[hasty needle]

Frost wind got special attack. And it’s ice. We’re void got nada.
Or am I confused

[upper ridge]

the "ice x2 " i guess

[pulsar frigate]

for kina its good to take club of primordial? i got d axe full for solo hunt

[tawdry ferry]

Iryont — hoy a las 14:41
We will be rebooting Serenity for a quick fix. Not sure why over 100+ players on test didn't notice it, but monsters weren't healing (due to Non-PvP). (((Thats why u feel stronger killing the boss on test server, he wasnt healing himself maybe?)))

@finite thistle this monster healing problem change any of your calculations about Eks dmg? what if u had to nerf EK dmg testing on creatures that wasnt healing as intended?

[finite thistle]

It had no effect on formulas.

[tawdry ferry]

but it can affect the fact of an EK beeing too OP or not right? those EK that were killing UD with 20 hits may be because of the non healing

[finite thistle]

All the calculations were done on the same target, and these knights really did not affect the formula in any way.

[tawdry ferry]

Sorry but if those EK really did not affect on the formula in any way why u changed the formula from the first Test server day? idk, its feels weird now with this healing thing

[finite thistle]

It was overturned no matter the target, whether it was healing or not. Mainly I watched knights hitting dummies and tested on dummies as well, that do not have any armor, defense or healing whatsoever.

[tawdry ferry]

im worry now because i was doing same exp on hydras with SOV and Chaos shield as in live servers. But if they wasnt healing 100% ill do less exp now. have to test it

[vagrant kayak]

use 2h on hydra, they do like 80% poison dmg that u cant block anyway

[tawdry ferry]

i know i was just testing if 1h hunt got any buff/nerf too.. any way i guess same with 2h hunt it will be less exp/hr now.

[vagrant kayak]

the only way u get less xp/h at hydras after todays patch is if u go full def and afk in between kills

[gleaming tree]

So we are testing on the live server now...

All of these changes since this morning too actually, i didnt even read all of it but it looks like it wasnt quite ready to be implemented yet

[hearty thistle]

hunting with two handed full def is good actually, you block more so you generate more fury

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-meme-gif-25333400

[sinful tangle]

yes thats the meta full def bloodlust stance

[finite thistle]

Tell me what did change.

[gleaming tree]

Sorry, i guess a lot happend since i last checked.
I just logged into the live server and realised the patch went through and a lot of things changed because of it.
Aside from losing almost 900 hp due to level squish, hunts changed because the equipment i normally use there for the added % resistances are 'low' tier compared to the sheol set i can use.

So either i take the resist, but lose healing
Or i keep my healing, but take bigger dmg combo's
Feels like a lose - lose situation...where before swapping sets was a net positive

[finite lance]

Got told vampiric weapons will be useable after tomorrows server save to lower lvls again?

It feels really really bad spending a lot of cash in the past to get equipment better than usual one for my level range and now I can’t use it 100%

Means I need to get myself a sca for kks which has 2 atk less and gamble on attributes (so more kks) for it being better than my sca as I could to annihilator already. It’s really strange to me.

[upper ridge]

fury sound scares me and i waste uhs

[robust cave]

Swords need rework att or not be used by any knight during bloodlust

even because the intention is to hit, not tank

[hearty thistle]

you haev 10% execution

[green ravine]

think so too. / and also think ill did more dist dmg. (and yes using same gear)

[robust cave]

you are an excellent comedian, it can be seen from your photo. it will really make a lot of difference when the monster has 500 to 1k of life

[hearty thistle]

10% more damage with executor and gouge, it add some DPS. I think its really good btw

[icy axle]

I remember on test server putting a melee ring on was worth it and increased my damage by I want to say 30-50 max. It is definitely useless atm. Same as meals.

[bitter dirge]

Is there any possibility to skill with summon on new server?

[frosty kelp]

@finite thistle Any changes coming to the training dummys they are super weak 😭

[finite thistle]

Yes, but they are currently available only on Serenity, until the next server save.

[eternal mural]

just use crowbar

[upper skiff]

if they nerf rings w/e but meals should not be nerfed in this manner, aquariums/roes/ingredients are all too expensive to further nerf meals

[frosty kelp]

Im using a sickle same atk

[noble torrent]

Does using fist to skillig increase mele too?

[frosty kelp]

it does but fist is 7atk

[finite thistle]

It should, yes.

[pulsar frigate]

hellforged set now have vast grip?

[plain flare]

all knight items have from now

[robust cave]

I think I'm going to pay wig to say that the hailstorm is bad, maybe they'll get better this way... because it was just him saying that it was too good that they ended it

[robust cave]

there is no possibility to get heavy mace?

[icy axle]

I have to say, after testing the 2 handed mace/axe/sword situation, I retract my statement. Whereas what I said is still true and that swords will provide less exp/hr if you are teamhunting as a dps role, if you are solo hunting with a 2 handed weapon, parry does help you out. I do think that the great longsword should be buffed to 5% parry and the chaos sword to 6% to match their sister weapon attributes though.

The great axe should get something though to compete with the great mace because currently the 5% perseverance + 3% berserk combination is just too good.

I do still think people should be able to swap between them as well.

[icy axle]

To comment on the glow when reckless assault is active, my char status says my resistance is higher. You should change it to saying reckless assault is active (and again change the color from white to yellow or whatever).

Also an idea to help balance 1 handed axes would be to increase their attack slightly. This way, it's an option to go full offense with a shield basically.

[vagrant kayak]

haste instead of gouge? edit: ah not all have gouge 😄

[real sparrow]

10% more damage when HP is below 10% is SUPER TRASH. If you do the math it's like 1% more damage overall. It just helps sometimes in the situations where the mob would be left with 10 hp and instead you kill it because of the small bonus damage.

[coral ivy]

Double hands sword no need Perry, if u going 2hand u expect dmg not blockING

[static kite]

isnt parry more effective when u recive more dmg?

[coral ivy]

More dmg blocked, less fury if we want Perry we use shield and 1 hand

[real sparrow]

Eldrin said parry comes after the damage is reduced by defense/blocking, so even parried attacks should give fury.

[icy axle]

I tested this and it seems to be true. I gain fury the same with or without parry, which is good.

[forest tulip]

Imaguine having to reach lvl 400 to actually use an item. all the people who've invested in his chaos shield pre lvl 400 have lost all this investment because of the "item rank level" patch

i think u should rlly low requirements bc most people already adquire this class of items on early stages of the game just by trading with other people

now is not viable for a lvl 200 knight to buy or wear certain items like chaos shield and it becomes rlly monotonous in therms of equipment that ek's uses

[real sparrow]

why is it not viable? you can use the item

[vagrant kayak]

yes 😄

[lucid light]

Wiggy accomplished his mission of nerfing the knights as much as he could and is enjoying his new bolt damage. Doubt he will show his face here again. I've got to say, blazing great sword also seems busted. I didn't manage to get a single hit above 600 in jothuns and sabertooths with 111 skill (lvl 244). Anyway, words to the wind, 90% of what I say is completely ignored by Eldrin.

[small tapir]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/888537348491579446/1033144616356159569/x7tfnkCv5F.gif

[robust cave]

I think it was unnecessary to have done that

[icy axle]

@forest tulip I initially thought this too but you still get to benefit from the stats and attributes. The only thing you don’t fully benefit from is the strength, however, as you level up, the strength will increase with your level over time so you won’t need to buy another shield in the future.

[dire whale]

@lucid light i feel same wiggy bitchin around bout knights and changes happen XD knights have always been the least vocation in the top ranks and will forever be, pallys got a sick upgrade now mages were op before alrdy and knights got a itzybitzy tiny upgrade now but still shit end of the day

[lofty saddle]

ek 4/10 top lvl both legacy and destiny

[small tapir]

if it was up to me I would cancel this patch but many people insisted that "knights deal too little damage with weapon", so here you have this new amazing meta.

[slim cape]

xd

[meager nimbus]

High levels will Say knights are in good balance because they need eks for sheol, then forget all about other levels

[small tapir]

and how exactly is low lvl life hard rn

[slim cape]

I would say low mid levels have it way easier now than we had it

[vagrant kayak]

i agree, however all other vocations have it massively easier than their older counter part as well so this does not establish any reason for or against further changes to better or worse

i think this update is a step in the right direction to fix scaling and in the end, very little changes dmg-wise for both rangers and knights if spell is disregarded. eldrin last minute increased stats on items, rune dmg is almost identical now for most lvl ranges and melee rings and meals increase it further

[lucid light]

How about if people stick to their main vocation thread to give feedback. Imagine that, crazy right? You won't find a single message of mine talking shit in other vocations feedback channel.

[formal aspen]

The problem is ppl expect to make 3kk/h on low dmg output vocation at lvl 250. Or kill mobs in one hit

[meager nimbus]

Expect not doing 200k/h as i got in some hunts solo lvl 200 🙄

[hasty needle]

I wonder who's idea was to short range of Decimate spell for Ek's.
probably, stupid ass Brian, he got always something stupid to say.

[plain flare]

yeah who the fck aplied for a melee Decimate?

[lucid light]

@vagrant kayak What is your doubt guys? If you don't have 1000+ hours of gameplay time ON the knight, you got no business here giving opinions. Stick to your vocation feedback channel.

[icy axle]

Yeah how dare I admit something is broken about the vocation I play right?

[upper skiff]

these kids crying are selfish players that don't understand balance, they want it all for free when some of us slow grinded our way to 250 ek before ANY melee formula was changed

decimate on 2sqm range was busted in pvp; you'd just redbox a mage and spamm the spell chasing them(non hotkey servers). It needed its range reduced it was ridiculous. 200k/hr hunting solo knight? yeah maybe dont hunt orc fortress anymore buddy, find a better spawn. Last comment... You're forgetting that the role of knights is not DPS, never was intended to be DPS and never will be DPS. If you don't enjoy your vocation, stop bitching and switch to rp or w/e else makes you happy

[sinful tangle]

I think the purpose for an EK rework was to attract more to play it. Making playing one less of a chore for the solo and more enjoyable all around if not only for the purpose of serving as a rune capping blocker for a team. These are some harsh takes Edward. Kind of a braindead emotional reaction to other emotional reactions.

[slim cape]

I dont think that ek is particularly not popular vocation, it's just a vocation that has always been slower in terms of progressing in levels.

I have started teamhunting ever since I got 50 level, its just I was not focused on min maxing, but having fun with my friends and to me EK is way funnier to play than RP which I've leveled when I started playing medivia

[coral ivy]

Exacly been slower , now its time to change it , stop looking in past( old medivia )where ek was only for tanking . We want have fun from play on ek when we dont have any ppl to team hunt, no one said we want more dmg then mage

[slim cape]

There is so many good spawns for eks, on high levels we actually have the highest variety of spawns to choose from compared to other vocations

Ek melee has been buffed twice already and it seems like ppl are still not satisfied, at this point im convinced that ek's actually do want more dmg than mage

[dire whale]

Only spawn i can get close exp close to my pally 60 lvl less is at wyverns so not alot of variety i feel

[slim cape]

So what else do you want? What kind of buffs?

So you are not satisfied with the buff you've now received, do I understand this correctly?

[dire whale]

Dmg that goes out wich is tested properly

[eternal mural]

knights hitting 2k in melee atm but thats not enough

[dire whale]

Not on a stupid dummy with 0 armor thats so far from reality, ice sword thing was cool felt like its worth hunting solo, instantly killed by non knight ppl back to no dmg

[lucid light]

It is what it is. We had a (tiny) chance to have significant changes on the knight, to not let us fall so far behind from other vocations in solo play. But if every vocation gets a buff, nothing really changes, right? It's just a shame devs only listen to a selected few for feedback, who are not even knights truly. It's very clear to see who has a bias.

[slim cape]

I dont even have any 2h weapons as I have always been teamhunting rather dangerous content where I choose defensive stats over atk. Right now after all the changes Im hitting for 400-700 all the time, 12% chance for double hit and it costs me 0. I am feeling like if we get even more buffs, we'll end up in a spot where its impossible to balance the game

[dire whale]

Thats why theres a few top knights btw, ppl need a blocker, as soon as u fall back and not get in top ranks of lvl ppl wont choose u anymore as blocker and u need to grind solo so u fall back even more, in team its cool thou as a knight bcz u are wanted but in low lvl regions u are alone if u dont have any friends who play with u stay on 800k-1.1kk/h max.. and 2k hits i havent seen tbh but gladly would like to get proven wrong, and not on a dummy thats nowhere near any real monsters defense

[eternal mural]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1091995798981582958/1124799038701699092/image.png

[upper skiff]

This isn't true at all, 400+ blockers are asked to block literally everything in sheol and they are able to. People on legacy have been complaining that there aren't enough blockers in NA timezone for a while now. You can literally write in trade/game chat and probably get a team to hunt

[eternal mural]

ye lol idk why these knights complain and expect to hit like 3k in melee or something

[upper skiff]

Yeah might be a harsh take but it's the attitude that is required. Everyone crying about being ek while ek right now is the best its ever been in the history of this game.

[plain flare]

an Archer can do same or even more dmg with Fast Hand being same lvl

[upper skiff]

Archers are meant to deal more damage, what is your argument here?

[eternal mural]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1091995798981582958/1124790945775370403/image.png
i didnt know i can hit 2k with my arrows

[valid dew]

2k dmg for free very nice! Buff 2h more

[eternal mural]

thats more than my avg sd dmg on 612 rp btw 🤣

[last pier]

2k hits? Easy: skill up to 140, get 100 attack weapon and get eq with over 2k str

[lucid light]

If the problem of decimate range was pvp, they just had to make it so player targets was 1 sqm, and creatures 2. Now every single knight, even on the non pvp world, will feel this nerf.

[plain flare]

im feeling now with running monsters

[coral ivy]

Show us items and skills and how long u spent for skilling.

[vagrant kayak]

i am in my feedback channel and last i checked i had more than 5000 hours on my both knights on two worlds combined. not wanting knights to be broken and op does not mean i or others dont play knight, just that we are more reasonable in our balancing approach

[upper skiff]

consider yourself lucky, decimate didnt exist when i was an ek

[hard night]

Activating Soul Shield still disables the Bloodlust Stance, meaning you lose all your fury gauge @finite thistle is this truly intended?

[dire whale]

Wouldnt take atmosfear with 140? Axe and great axe as the knight to compare with everyone but ye 2k hit on a rly weak dwf monster is cool to see thou would like to see that on a lbk or smth with a little defense

[valid dew]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1112323809886875690/1124620562069725255/a91b146cad904a127f2f2f6e2d49b37d.mp4
Even if we hit 2k with 2 misses in a row we need to hit like 6k

[finite thistle]

It does not disable the stance. You can see it on your condition icon panel. However, it does remove the shader, and currently it is an expected behaviour, this system needs a rework. So even without the shader, your Fury Gauge stays the same, and Bloodlust Stance is still active.

[hard night]

https://gyazo.com/939f35a8574fd8b4f3ef3fa30d208803 Am I doing sth wrong? When I activate soul shield, as soon as i Rightclick a target, the fury gauge disappears and the attackspeed is slow again.

When you already are attacking something, the Fury Gauge disappears right away, thats why it made this impression on me at first. It seems to be linked to setting attack

https://gyazo.com/8efb70a5172e8f17b52a4689bf387d2c

https://gyazo.com/bc7ea4570788f08a9c3c2eb2ae26397c

I see the icon but the attack speed seems to be lost, re-applying the stance then causes me to have 0 fury gauge, that seems to be the issue @finite thistle

[small tapir]

daily reminder than vocs are balanced around low rate servers

[upper skiff]

you did get balance. Minimum dmg got buffed and max dmg got buffed; 2H weapons are viable now with bloodlust stance, what more do you want?

[finite thistle]

By reverting the hailstorm nerf you mean make them better than chaos weapons again (or similar)? That is not going to happen, so there is no need to waste your time. Currently this weapon is as strong as it is intended.

[robust cave]

regarding the attributes the swords are worse, do you have the possibility of putting something that also increases the skills temporarily?

like perseverance that in addition to increasing life also increase skills how about giving a skill increase for example when activating parry or whatever, inventing something

[meager nimbus]

You Say yourself there, 2h weapons are viable NOW. Hitting 3seg for getting "decent" damage wasnt good at all.

Not sure if You know, but there are 5 servers with fast paced, i think our opinions matters as everyone else.

[upper skiff]

Yes now with 2 second attack, two handed weapons are viable. Before there was no reason to ever equip 2h weapon, in my opinion. Yes I'm fully aware, afterall i do have a part in ruling them :]

I never said your opinion didn't matter because you play a high rate server, you just need to keep in mind that balance is intended based on the low rate servers: legacy/destiny.

[trail steeple]

@finite thistle Think about making Crusader Knights Fury Gauge Bar have 200 limit instead of 125. This way it will have benefits for both playing styles, otherwise the extra 5% block damage is only when hunting with shields right? or it is also applied for damage reduction from two handers formula?

[slim cape]

Define in numbers, how much exactly would you have to hit so that you'd consider eks are balanced?

Also nobody thinks your opinion as hrate players dont matter, but devs are balancing around legacy and destiny and all you have to do is accept it and stop enforcing changes that are bad for the game long term

[meager nimbus]

Right now getting better hunts solo, better XP than before, it doesnt feel like a chore and a waste of time. Imo 2h should have same speed as 1h, already not using shield that is some of the Big points of being blockee, using shield and Big defense. We getting the speed for 25% more damage taken, it's viable in some places, but too risky in others.

Yeah, balances Made based in 2 of 7 servers, don't know if thats the best tho, since Destiny really low players, but i guess they have some reasons for it.

[obsidian bough]

Agree the the changes are good so far. Hasn't seen solo xp increase as much as I had hoped. Feels like best xp for 200ish knights is still to gfb tombs (boring)

[dire whale]

well theres a reason why the origin of this game always had 2 handed weapons same atk speed as 1 handed since the 1 sec delay made them useless, took way too long to see that issue.. well but we makin progress in the right direction lets hope we get some knight streamer like Atmosfear maybe with less epic skillset to be a decent voice for knights towards dev's with enough influence to get some changes towards an even stenght under those vocations, currently mages hit same avrg id say with theire "1 handed wand" as a knight with avarage skills and 2 handed weapon full equiped, thats not correct i feel but there are enough ppl killing vocations they arent playin so ill shut up on that 😛

[languid fjord]

That doesn't make a lot of sense u know. Logically. Melee makes sense. I think all dmg is too much personally I haven't rly found a great situation for hunting with the spell, I think it isn't worth the extra dmg taken.. been getting destroyed... but I also haven't rly tried hunting 1x1 yet, idk maybe it's better there, but for what I've been doing its pretty garbage

[dense stream]

how does the "strength" system work?

[icy axle]

You don't want knights to become contestants for top dps though. We needed a buff, we got a buff. I honestly think we are fine.

My current feedback for knights at this point @finite thistle :

Strength/Melee Ring/Spicy Maris Feast

• My fear going into this update was that upgrading equipment would give such a minor increase to damage that it would not be worth it, and that seems to be the case now. I tested my exp/hour hunting with and without a spicy maris feast + a melee ring (+20 strength) and my exp/hour did not change. This is a problem because most equipment upgrades are minor increases to strength, and if +20 isn't noticeable, then those minor increases definitely are not either.

Rings

• Introduce an elite melee ring

Meals

• Add Exquisite Baked, Spicy, and Sweet Maris Feasts
• Fix all Perch meals so that they can be used

Barbel Feast + Exquisite Barbel Feast

• Remove the instant heal capability. This is a mouse based game and you should not be able to instantly heal 2500, nonetheless 5000 health by using an item. It's extremely imbalanced and overpowered.
• Buff the time you benefit from the resistances from 10 seconds > 15 seconds

My reason for these changes would transform it from a broken way to heal requiring zero skill to a pre-emptive increase to your defenses.

Attributes

• Buff all chaos sword/axe/mace attributes to the 6% family (Parry 3% > Parry 6%)
• Buff great longsword attribute to the 5% family (Parry 4% > 5%)
• Increase the flawless value on the great axe because currently the 8% total of perseverance and berserk buff to your melee is drastically better than the great axe with just berserk
• Rework/replace the following attributes: Haste, Fortitude, and Lean
• Gouge Attribute: Have the damage scale with your melee fighting
• Executor: Change it to proc from 10% > 40% Health
• Blood Worm: Too complex of an attribute imho, however, same as gouge; have it scale with your melee fighting

[slim flare]

when are we getting Strength, intelligence and dexterity here in the Skills Window to see our totals?
sorry if it was already mentioned somehwere else

[languid fjord]

Mostly agree with everything minus one thing.
Scrap that barbel idea.....
It's a "mouse based game" but every vocation besides knight can heal with hotkey. 1 button press...3/4 vocs heal that way. and the frequency or lack of frequency in which knights actually use barbels should also further nullify that point as well.
It's such a rare used item I don't think it justifies

They are 100 Mc for 10, they wouldn't be worth even half that without giving healing. Maybe 30 Mc for 10.. idk think it's a bad idea. It's not like u can sit there spamming them, there's a long cool down.
<not realy fair to ppl who bought a bunch>> not gonna refund people who stocked up right?

Nobody ever appreciates when they spend a ton of money for something then they turn around and ruin what the customer bought and they no longer have what they paid for.

[small tapir]

any updates on when we will be able to swap rewards in demonic faction and other quests like that

[valid dew]

I agree knights are in a good spot right now. I suggest improving their rage bar with 25 points.

On a side note, ammunition of archers needs to weigh less, conjure piercing arrow needs to be added, and piercing ammunition price needs to be decreased.

[finite thistle]

Soon.

[valid dew]

does this include like Melee: 0-xxx damage, so we can see what weapon/ammuntion deals what dmg?

[finite thistle]

No.

[icy axle]

You're 100% right that all 3 other vocations have an instat heal with the press of a button but we also have 33-66% more hp than they all do. I just think it makes the game too easy with that availability. Using a uh on ourselves is our core mechanic in this game and I will just never be on board with making our core mechanic easier.

[dense stream]

but what does "strength" attribute to my character in terms of damage? Do you already have a formula for this?

[finite thistle]

Hover over "Strength" label when inspecting any item with strength, or see patch notes.

[dense stream]

yes, the strength appears, but I would like to know, what does the total strength that my character has, influence the final damage?

[dense stream]

thank you very much, this option still does not appear for me, because I have not acquired the necessary level to use the item

[finite thistle]

Tooltip should appear even if you do not meet the requirements.

[dense stream]

https://i.gyazo.com/4903479481429b6e19ed619dac4fb77c.mp4

[finite thistle]

In that case there must be some kind of bug, that was already fixed on test server. If you want to learn more about dexterity, strength or spellpower, see the patch notes on website: https://medivia.online/forum/thread/48886

[dense stream]

thank you, and congratulations to all the staff for the great service

[hardy eagle]

I dont want buff but:

• Introduce an elite melee ring
• buff all chaos weapons
• buff great longsword
• buff great axe
• buff gouge attribute
• buff executor sword
• also eq gives too little power
• also add more ek meals
  respectfully, Brian

[sinful tangle]

Wrong format. Do you know how to use powerpoint?

[edgy lagoon]

it displays the tooltip on attributes on attributed items but not on base stats of the items

[languid fjord]

Id ask Devs please don't change barbels without some kinda exchange for Mc deal. Example. Trade back Fish or recipes for Mc paid. This is an extremely highly priced item which would never be worth a fraction of what ppl paid if altered. When you guys sell things in MC shop and we buy them we are doing so with a level of trust that we aren't throwing Mc down the drain. Wouldn't be cool, And it's totally unnecessary.
We are a long way from making such a huge deal about core game mechanics... The whole game is different. But if anything removing healing is the worst way to approach it.. if they wanna make it so you have to use on yourself like a uh I could get on board with that as a worst case. but not ruin the meal completely. why aren't we proposing to scrap baked lionfish also then? U just click that... make meals something you use on yourself then i guess?? Mages weren't supposed to be able to fill mana as quickly as they can and do now even without using baked lionfish. I'd then propose they remove everything they have added that doesn't reflect a core 7.4 mechanic to the tee.. Look at what druids can do. They heal for multiple turns pressing a hotkey once every so often. This stuff all makes the game easy and play a much larger role in the game day to day or hunt to hunt than the rare or occasional use of a barbel. Maybe some don't like to spend the Mc on it, that's fair but you're proposing to screw over anyone who bought the fish which isn't. I think it's much to do about nothing rly. Definitely hope its the last time this is brought up.

[narrow parrot]

when kicked out after afk i came back and noticed that i didn't have to target trainer and it was already hitting it without red border

[grim flint]

Lvl: 423 > 400 (345hp less)
Explo: 260-602 > 213-498
Uh avrg: 2100 > 1850

Seems like great update for me
I just came back from holiday

[sinful tangle]

Welp time to relax from your holiday and enjoy some video gaming

[vagrant kayak]

have u upgraded ur eq with vast grip attribute yet?

[lucid light]

Rune damage and healing now depends a lot on equipment, namely strength - that boosts spell power - that boosts runes. I was just lucky to have the right eq for my lvl, so runes got exactly the same as before. Try a melee ring to see how that changes your runes (it's not really a melee ring now, more like spell power ring).

Btw, have you guys tested attributing on live servers yet? There seemed to be some problem with the % chances on TS.

[vagrant kayak]

ts?

[loud sigil]

Can i pls have strength on bright sword even tho I am not level 60? I just did the quest at level 45?

[narrow parrot]

It was lovely getting online and seeing that some of my items that were already full attributed were buffed. even tho i already had vast grip on them weirdest thing was that some items i had to and some i didn't like for example my angelic platemail stayed full and my hf armor missed vast grip? why is that? @finite thistle

like i had my angelic boots full and now is missing vast grip and vitality? so angelic boots never had vitality?

[finite thistle]

If you have Amplify Magic Shield attribute then equip the boots again.

[finite thistle]

And about Vast Grip:

If item could be enchanted with Vast Grip attribute, attribute stayed, but now doesn't increase skill, but strength. If item couldn't be enchanted, it now can be enchanted.

[grim flint]

No because im poor and dont have luck to att. Hf set has bigger att chances now? Melee ring changes my min UH power from 1687 to 1708

[vagrant kayak]

check it with stone, the vast grip (strength) attribute has better chance for success than the others. it's still gamble and u can get fucked good, but its not as bad as other attributes. if u attr all ur eq with strength, ur uh heal will probably be the same or only like -5% max

[narrow parrot]

my melee will never look green like my blocking?

[hard night]

@finite thistle Tested today again, Soul Shield still causes the Bloodlust Stance to end as soon as I get attacked or attack. Attackspeed is gone, as well as fury gauge, and I have to re-apply the stance, meaning i lose all fury gauge if I had any spared up while entering sheol

[noble torrent]

I would like to point that hfa/angelic platemail etc and for eg umbral platemail are no difference in dmg now, seems like huge boost to the armor dropped by 200lvl mob, or huge nerf to the one who had +4mele skills and now I got +2 max hit to explo... dunno how much mele hit it changes but probably some1 can calculate it.

Seems like hfa is now best armor for ek cuz it has no impact on dmg/runepower and the most tankness attributes

[noble torrent]

In My opinion Eldrin you should change vast grip attributes/add them like you did if there wasn't one before, but +mele skill property you should keep like it was or add more str if the item had it

[lucid light]

Test server. People were reporting extreme waste on stones that should have big % of success. It's up here, but I'm lazy to look for it now.

[low verge]

@finite thistle Will changing demonic faction reward be a thing ? Ofc if u change new will be clean but could it be a option maybe due skill merge?

[icy axle]

This is precisely my point above that @hardy eagle trolled about btw

[pulsar frigate]

good exp for knight 270 solo?

[noble torrent]

Idk if it should be clean, but that rly should be a thing also the same with archini and great weapons

[vagrant kayak]

add +1 skill to umbral, +2 skill to suffering as property. right now there is barely any incentive to upgrade. also “melee” rings giving more rune dmg than melee dmg feels wrong. rename them to “power ring” at very least or better: make them give 2 skills. is it op with highlvl skills? no! it would make high skills pay off more, i thought that was the point of the changes. +20 dmg with ring after 2000 hours training is not op, it is well deserved.

[outer gulch]

Hfa is overturned that’s for sure

[vagrant kayak]

well every knight needs one now and it has to be good or rip rune dmg for majority of knights. there won’t be enough umbrals for the bazillion lvl 350+ eks. It’s just that the few lucky ones to loot umbral could use some extra value for their efforts.

[hearty thistle]

Can I have 2 SQM decimate on NON PVP so?

[hearty thistle]

are you able to share some knowledge about spots to get decent EXP with this new system for Ek 270 +/- skill 110 ? I tried Titan and Manticore, got a boost of 300k XP +/- but im trying to figure out some alternative spot

[hearty thistle]

and then call it as "free damage"

[noble torrent]

It's not help channel or hunting spot discussion. Please stop offtopic

[hearty thistle]

its not off topic, I want to test and give my feedback after test it. and who the hell are you?

[steady flax]

I created a thread to decrease weight of Paladin ammo to half

[grim flint]

I played a while since yesterday and its really ridiculous how melee ring gives more to healing and rune dmg than dmg dealt with weapon

[prisma crypt]

Well, I think that removing the Bloodlust Stance spell as soon as you take a two-handed weapon was not viable, for example in certain situations where weapons of different types of elements are used, for certain monsters, it was weak. Since once you make this switch, you completely lose the fury generated from the previous weapon.

Not to mention that when switching to another two-handed sword, you have to renew the magic

@finite thistle Wouldn't it be better for the spell to be removed when equipping a shield?

[keen plaza]

Thinking that a game is a business and that it constantly needs new players to play it and grow its revenue, improve the market, being able to provide investment in the team, time for all players to earn and I think you are very stupid for thinking about it .

[real sparrow]

Can we have a fury bar, below mana bar above the character? It would be better than having to look to the side everytime to see how much fury we have.

[runic nova]

Why does it need to get removed any way except for me casting the spell on or off

[obsidian bough]

We tried hunting with blocker and dps knight. Blocker didn't use bloodlust and Dps knight didn't generate very much fury - would it be possible to think about how dps knight might be able to get some fury in this scenario? Otherwise it worked well. Dps knight had good damage output with two hander and explos

[prisma crypt]

Perhaps the chance was so they woudnt switch to a one handed weapond and forget spell on. In fact, idk why the automatic change, i just wanted to open a question that was bad due to the facts i mentioned above

[hearty thistle]

could be also generated by hitting

[pure stag]

Can someone explain to me this values? What do they mean?

Each point of strenght increases how much attack on char?
What is spellpower?
Do they affect both blocking and attack?

Is there a chart where its better explained?

Without set this is what i have, so what exactly does 180 mean?

[marsh tinsel]

what is medivia

[upper skiff]

what is love

[cerulean holly]

Spellpower determines your dmg from spells/runes

[small tapir]

hello after some time of testing I have initial feedback about knight rework. Note that its coming from 600 ek so im only gonna focus on 600 ek gameplay and balance on LOW RATE server. It's my opinions and my solutions.

• Bloodstance shouldn't exist. It's extremely annoying having to not only swap equipment during hunt but also toggling this spell on and off. Therefore I would remove this spell and instead make wearing 2h automatically apply -25% resistance passive effect and by default make 2h weapons hit every 2 seconds. I feel like the only reason we have this spell in the first place is to not make people who hunted with two handed weapons before patch angry which is not a valid reason. Few ppl will cry and honestly I dont see much reason to ever use 2h weapons without spell so just remove that option and make gameplay smoother and more intuitive by doing so!

• Fury bar should work for both 1handed and 2handed weapons. I think this mechanic is a key to making knight a fun vocation. I'm having a blast being able to incurso from time to time in situations that usually wouldnt be optimal for doing that. It fits knight's identity as a brutal brawler. Currently 1h weapons dont have that option sadly which makes knights end up exploing 24/7 which is extremely dull and depressing. Also, it feels really bad having to swap from 2h weapon to 1h weapon and losing all fury points. Therefore, make fury integral part of knight's kit no matter what weapon he's using.

• Fury bar should regen slowly while wearing 1h weapon and faster while wearing 2h weapon.

• Fury bar should regen from all damage, not only physical. I honestly dont understand the reasoning behind making it only physical damage. Make it all Damage.

• Fury bar maximum capacity should be raised from 125 to 250. To add some flexibility.

• If these changes turn out to be too strong (I doubt), I would lower knight's melee damage to compensate. My main focus is to make knight voc fun.

• Reduce variance of damage for incurso and incurso min, reduce variance of big mana fluid mana gain. These two things make knights damage too inconsistent.

[vagrant kayak]

agree on all counts except fury generating from all sources, would be too powerful imo. also decreasing melee dmg for that is a big no. would cripple knight solo and make it op with druid duo

[small tapir]

well the idea is that fury regen will increase so that will compensate ek's lowered damage which TBH is pretty ridiculous considering it costs 0 gold.

[vagrant kayak]

0 gold dmg is strawman argument, takes ages to train and time is money, also endgame weapons are absurdly expensive, enough to cover mages sd consumption for ages

[small tapir]

anyway I still dont see a reason why wouldnt all damage count towards fury regeneration. If you are worried that fury will increase too quickly then just lower it's regeneration (I think fury should regen faster). Why make some hunting spots completely poop for fury regeneration and others super good?

idk why are you worried about synergy with druid. I heard there is some weird limitation implemented already where fury doesnt regen if x monsters hit knight. That should be instantly removed. Thats entire reason to teamhunt, to have synergies.

[robust cave]

or somehow adjust the amount of fury generated through damage dealt/damage received

[cobalt imp]

I would also like to see a better way to visualize fury, I think the white aura should turn red when you reach 50 fury or even brighter when its 100 fury and also fury bar below name.

[twin moon]

@finite thistle when i use bloodlust appears a shield symbol in my character conditions that is wrote "Your resistance is higher".

[icy axle]

There has already been some situations that I forget to use my fury so I heavily agree with increasing the pool to 250. I understand that a sound happens but sometimes I miss the 2nd sound while waiting for the fury to cast berserk rather than decimate. I also do think fury should just be active all the time as you said regardless if we are using a 1 hander or 2 hander.

One further comment I would like to say on fury is that it's rather annoying having 2 tiny resources bars in mana and fury next to each other and if we can change this so that we always have fury, can we just make a 3rd bar under the mana rather than shrink and squish it next to it? A bar on our character visibly would be nice as well.

[obsidian bough]

I wonder if there might be a good option like that to help supplement fury generation. Or something where if you don't take damage for x turns it starts generating like mana does? Overall I think the devs should be praised for making the changes. Lots of good work and some great customer service imo

[obsidian bough]

UHs cost money. Knights don't hunt for free.

[small tapir]

every vocation has to heal, knight's melee costs 0

[obsidian bough]

Each vocation has costs associated with hunting. Melee costing 0 doesn't really add anything, as you have the cost elsewhere(uh, explo). Knights have the lowest solo xp ability which is really the main issue I think.

[small tapir]

one could see knight being able to click demon, go to toilet, return and uh himself once to be an issue too

[marsh tinsel]

let us accumulate fury whilst attacking too

[sinful tangle]

Whenever I post in trade chat to sell an item, and someone interested responds with "Offer?" generate 20 fury

[obsidian bough]

https://tenor.com/view/mystery-men-mr-furious-stress-ball-ben-stiller-gif-21508216

[obsidian bough]

That at least kinda feels thematic. Get in bloodlust stance. Hit things, get furious

[upper skiff]

relatable

[obsidian bough]

I think that's actually rage points. So now we need another bar.

[upper skiff]

one bar to rule them all

[robust cave]

now you can't even change weapons during combat, you lose fury, attack shift... was that the intention? not switch weapons?
@finite thistle

[icy axle]

Guys, relax, I am sure he will fix it.

[robust cave]

berserker on swords when? XD

[icy axle]

https://tenor.com/view/ardi-ardianto-ardicento-sword-swords-gif-15898179

[sinful tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/mordhau-sword-coward-fight-gif-14035295

[rain berry]

Visual representation of a knight using ranged decimate

[sinful tangle]

You will be missed, ranged decimate

[valid dew]

Throw dagger spell sounds like a good attack for 50 mana for some archer

[vagrant kayak]

same as item buffs, extra dmg spells will only happen at the expense of melee/dist dmg, eldrin has been clear about not wanting to buff knight/ranger dmg any further. and frankly he is right. we deal a lot of dmg as it is and i rather keep my on hit dmg than be turned into spell spam machine

[meager nimbus]

We still are explo machines tho 🤗

[prisma crypt]

Make a Bloodstance a spell turn on and turn off again please, for a fun gameplay when switches 2 handed weapon and still with fury bar !!!

[finite thistle]

After one of the patches, Bloodlust Stance will be turned off when you equip a shield, not deequip a two handed weapon. It is also possible that the stance won't be turned off completely, and fury gauges will slowly dissipate over time when two handed weapon is not equipped.

[last pier]

How about fury potions / meals? 🐸

[obsidian bough]

Something that lets you use attack to generate fury or slowly ticks up whilst the effect is active would be great I reckon. It's really only an issue when you are the dps knight and not really taking damage

[hasty needle]

perhaps u should sell shit with price in mind, u selling u got price like in shop. i dont go shop and asking oo can i buy it for 50 cents instead of 1 pound ? even if its priced 1 pound ?
PPl who sells shitact like that. , and we say we buy it, seller says offer.
#idiots do that . cuz 1 they might catch newbie and steamroll him with high price. or someone expierienced give u lower pirce, and pussy like u guys wont even answer. to conter offer it.

[white musk]

So even reading all this I still don't know which one is better: sword, club or axe 😔

[zealous lintel]

Market when?

[frail niche]

sorry guys, too much text. Someone already talked about melee ring? I guess it needs a buff, 8 Strength is notting near 4 skill points.

[lucid light]

Yes, many times. Melee ring = 2 melee damage. Might help to kill a rat at lvl 8, I guess.

[sinful tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/sesame-street-bert-ernie-book-reading-gif-17245123

[wraith fern]

I think this is important too, the white aura is barely noticeable and it should change the colour at least so you don't forget to use it (maybe same colour as the fury gauge bar for example)

[frail niche]

Exactly, all itens wich had skill bonus are now worse. Even Warlord Helmet Full wich had 1 skill bonus and now give 8 str is worse in avg dmg

[vagrant kayak]

nothing changed, +1 skill was as useless before update as +8 str is after update. u are mixing up stuff. u want pre update items with past update benefits lol

[frail niche]

Did you even make one calc comparing old and new formulas?

in old formula and in my case (163 Lvl, 99 skill EK), old ring + maris would increase my dps in 7,62%

in new formula 20 str increase my dmg in 1.65%

i'm not saying that i used do have more dps than i have now. But the amout of the total dps that come from ring/food/vast grip is notting near the amout of dps that used to be with ring/food/vast grip

[finite thistle]

Did you also count in damage from runes into your DPS, or just counted melee damage, completely ignoring spellpower bonus coming from strength? Not just you, but I see that people just mention the melee damage difference (skill vs strength from rings/meals) and ignore spellpower bonus.

[noble torrent]

I did mention strength bonus from eq, u replaced 4mele from umbral armor into few more str that gives me change from 649 to 651 max explo dmg compared to hfa/angelic armor I can't think of a reason that it's somehow a "bonus" except that in general we are hitting more mele than before

[frail niche]

To be fair, i forgot to count the DPS from runes in the first moment, where i can find the previous calc of HMM dmg so i can test this?

[finite thistle]

So just for your information I calculated how much melee ring used to increase your damage:

LEVEL   WEAPON        AVG_OLD  AVG_NEW  DIFF
50     FIRE_AXE         112      118     6
75     HEAVY_HALBERD    135      142     7
100    VANQUISHER       147      154     7
125    SCA              170      178     8
150    SCA              181      190     9
175    SCA              193      201     8
200    SCA              198      207     9
250    VAMPIRIC_AXE     210      219     9
300    PRIMORDIAL_AXE   217      226     9
350    PRIMORDIAL_AXE   228      236     8
400    PRIMORDIAL_AXE   238      247     9
450    PRIMORDIAL_AXE   251      260     9
500    PRIMORDIAL_AXE   260      268     8
550    SHEOL_AXE        283      293     10

And now, melee ring gives flat 7.6 damage increase (with explosion runes). So you could say there was a slight melee ring nerf, but now meals increase damage by more (5-7 dmg vs 11.4 dmg).

Some of you probably overestimated melee rings by looking at values on test server, which back then they increased damage by about 40-50 on very high levels/skills.

I believe you posted your feedback in a wrong thread.

[frail niche]

As i said, i'm not comparing dmg output overall. I know dmg increased, i'm just saying that the amout of dps increased by ring or food is lower when you compare with the previous amount of skill gained and the new Strength.

[noble torrent]

Could you please make similar table comparing previous hfa and umbram armor and now?

[finite thistle]

It is not fair to compare it like that, overall damage output must be considered, because spellpower bonus accounts for 65% of melee ring damage bonus.

Bonus DPS stays around the same. It used to give around 7 DPS on level 100 with vanquisher, around 8 on level 500 with axe of the primordial fire, and now it gives flat 7.4 DPS.

[frail niche]

I see, i don't know HMM/Explo previous formula. :/ But i will share my calc here with the info i have

[finite thistle]

There was a total item rework and not always everything will stay the same. One item could get buffed, other nerfed, but it was necessary. It may not be possbile to keep the difference of attack the same between two items.

[meager nimbus]

The point wasnt make us less dependants to explo runes? I'm using more explos than before and more uhs with spell.

[finite thistle]

In general, you can use this data to compare it. You can see how much damage strength provides and roughly how much damage did one skill point provide before rework. It was around 1-2 damage per skill point.

[noble torrent]

I do t know if it's fair but I just wanted u to see that it changed base thing, now umbral and angelic armors are just situational, benefit from them on 2-3 spots in game, and before there was clear way to upgrade eq. Now there is no point to buy anything after hfa

[finite thistle]

Since umbral platemail used to provide 4 skill points, the data on this table is the same. On level 500 with axe of primordial fire it used to provide 8 damage (in average). Now, the difference between these two items is 4 strength, and this is should be 3.7 damage.

[noble torrent]

In my case umbral armor changed my exori hit for 150x6targets

[frail niche]

As Eldrin said we can't compare just melee dmg as total dmg. If some of you guys have the old HMM/Explo Formula it would improve the discussion.

I used my character as sample. The weapon values are based on a Demonic Axe Full*; I re-uploaded one of calcs cuz have Flawless 2 instead of 1

[noble torrent]

Ok but last time checked we were saying that skills and eq will matter more and will be lvl req, and now it seems that we don't need to upgrade after hfa at all. Since it's like 1% difference total

[eternal mural]

EQ increases rune dmg and healing as well now

[noble torrent]

Yes, i did mention that. It increase my max explo hit by 2dmg compared hfa(200lvl mob drop) to umbral armor.

[vagrant kayak]

the damage you deal with euipment of certain lvl bracket is calculated by eldrin to be (roughly) same as u did before on that lvl. it doesnt matter who drops it, it matters that at lvl 450, with this item you will deal as much dmg overall as before on lvl 450. he cant buff item without buffing lvl 450 knights which he doesnt want to. he cannot nerf hfa without fucking lvl 350 eks who would then deal less dmg than before rework. accept that at lvl 450 with umbral, you deal just as much dmg as was caculated as balanced and move on.

[frail niche]

@finite thistle, does this values make sense? Did previous multiplier for HMM was 0.3 for max and 0.15 for min?

[finite thistle]

What level did you use? Oh nvm, I can see.

Old spellpower should be 352 (164x2 + 3x8)

[frail niche]

And the multipliers still the same?

[finite thistle]

Rune multipliers did not change (0.2-0.4 for HMM)

[obsidian bough]

It's more a preference to what attributes you are wanting to use.

[frail niche]

So, now with food+ring the dps diff is (138-136=2 + 113/2-120/2 = 3.5) = 5.5; Previously it was (124-115)=9. With Melee + Hmm (in my case), the brute diff and % diff of ring+food is less impacting than before. Althrough the total dmg (Melee+Hmm) increased with this update (115+105/2 >> 136+113/2).

I know i'm ignoring the amout of bonus heal received by UHs

[frail niche]

I remake my calc using 24 str as base so previous hmm and new hmm have same dmg (in my case, Knight 164-Skill 99-Ml 8).

Scenario if Melee Ring give +8 >> +14 STR & Maris give +12 >> +22 STR. Total 20 >> 36. Still ignoring the buff that 36 STR would give to UH. Wich is about to 36 x 1.2 x 2.6= 112 bonus heal in avg. Almost +50 avg heal from UH than 20 STR current buff of ring+food

[orchid tulip]

Would be too late to ask why chaos shield don't protect against chaos? Just wondering

[obsidian bough]

Too much chaos if you go down that slippery slope 😂

[orchid tulip]

I mean bit seriously, Any given % would be nuts for the item, making that shield a good option, when knights get acess to aegis they become useless

With the upcoming update of aividem, that most likely would be a great help for everyone since new knights starting aividem and old folks on new content

[cobalt imp]

@frail niche can you send me the link of all those excel sheets pls

[orchid tulip]

I'm not saying to be equal to aegis but as druid for example you may downgrade in damage to have more protection in some cases, knights should have options too, specially on shields.

[frail niche]

Sure, just need to organize them, is kinda massy right now. I send to you tomorrow 😄

[plain flare]

is any arrow slot item with streght in the future? archers have quivers and mages rune pouchs

[noble torrent]

Im just saing that game should motivate ppl to make progress, change gear etc. 1% change in dmg, some chaos res and less other resistances will not do that if umbral, is like 5x harder to get than hfa

And now I literally got nothing to do, cuz factions done, lvl is hard to get and gives just 15hp, skills takes ages, eq don't make character stronger too(there is separate thread about sheol sets)

[slim cape]

I feel it is the case for a long time, not only for eks but for all.
Ppl leveling too fast = lvl cap them. Lvl cap solved with a new formula to prevent power creeping and we are convinced again that sheol bis items cant be too good because it would allow for power creeping which has been solved afterall, or wasnt it?

When it comes to all ek items, I think as Rhaskos said, now it doesnt really matter if you have angelic, umbral, hfa or armor of suffering. Sure they have some differences and sure its nice to have them all but i dont see people be like omg im level 500, i need to switch to suffering armor asap. And with current stats of those items i can guarantee you nobody will dump tons of cash as its simply not worth it. If you like the state of a game where people are not motivated to upgrade their eq then imo something is wrong. But I have said it on multiple occasions and I dont think devs think the same so better to just accept it I guess

[vagrant kayak]

the only reason to go hunting is and has always been because you enjoy it. if you don‘t enjoy the process and only care about the results, you are not a gamer enjoying a game, you are an addict needing his fix. imho it is a good thing that finally, finally, finally progress is being slowed again because - as you have pointed out yourself - this shifts focus away from min max and people actually doing what they enjoy in this game, may that be chill at house and chat, hunt stuff for fun, chase after rares, etc.

edit: now all we need to do is merge a whole bunch of servers so it does not feel like playing on an empty ghost server and we got a real mmorpg game at our hands

[noble torrent]

Different ppl are motivated to play by different things. But we must agree that farming rares and expig to make char stronger cant be one of them anymore

[grim flint]

@finite thistle i think melee ring gives me +27 to min. Uh and it increases explo hit too which are nice values but i think every knight would prefer dont have it but instead hit better with weapon. If you think +4 melee for 500 or less gp is op maybe change value to +2? It would probably still be better than str in terms of melee dmg. Meal could have +2 melee too but lasts for 2h because it is more expensive than ring. That way you can make combo +4 which is nicely noticable. Less explo, less healing but stronger melee hits. Its gonna be fun and make rings market alive a little. Think about it please, look how many ppl advocate for it!

[finite thistle]

Damage is balanced by taking all the factors into consideration, not only gear. In order to gear to matter more, damage must be taken from somewhere - level or skills. But anyway, you are not also looking at bigger picture. It is true now that there is less power difference when uprading from hellforged armor to umbral platemail. But you now compared item that gave 0 damage to item that used to provide skills. It's not that umbral platemail was nerfed in any way, but hellforged armor buffed. You also forget about other items in your equipment that probably did not give any kind of damage increase but now does. Upgrading from leather boots to golden boots also did not increase your damage. But now it does. Should it look the same as before? No.

If damage increase would scale with difficulty to obtain items, then we would have to completely rework the game. Armor of suffering is probably 1000x as harder to obtain as knight armor, or even more. If knight armor would provide 1 strength, then should armor of suffering provide 1000 strength? Also no. Otherwise, we would need some radical changes. High levels would deal 5 digit damage, PvP would have to be completely disabled, exp and loot from lower level monsters would also have to be completely disabled. Since there is no level 500+ monster, effectively there would be level 500 cap, until the next high level content update. You wouldn't be able to play the game. Every 50 or so levels, and hunting zone you used to hunt on would become useless, because you would not be able to gain experience or loot items.

[finite thistle]

So melee rings are completely useless on low levels, but very good on high levels? I don't think that's the good approach. It only prevents us from adding better meals or better rings, since they would also have to be better than the other. And they would then be too good.

[vagrant kayak]

do i hear better rings and meals

[slim cape]

I never said I want to deal 4 digit numbers damage. All I wanted is to be rewarded with a slightly more noticeable damage/protection than people who get their equipment for pennies/naturally obtain it through grinding most rewarding content for their characters. I dont see how 30-40 dmg more per item (120-160dmg per full set) would lead to insane power creep. Not when something as exp boosts exist

[prisma crypt]

@finite thistle it's working?

[formal aspen]

Damage is out of control as it is, as far as I noticed. Why don’t instead grant these sets higher protection? In a way less healing is more damage dealt too, just a thought.

[noble torrent]

Well, kinda i mean that. for example until now hfa was more tanky than others but no buff to dmg, now it's more tanky and gives almost the same spellpower/mele attack.

[robust cave]

Working? @finite thistle

[coral ivy]

Why we lost fury after change from 2handed to 1 handed weap?

[finite thistle]

There were no changes as you can see in the changelog.

[small tapir]

so what was the reason for buffing hellforged armor? Umbral platemail always used to be more offensive version which made is very disirable for hlvl knights due to higher berserk/melee damage. It was also objectively harder to get. I dont quite understand how could you delete +2 skill property like that and pretend that nothing happened.

Adding this additional missing vast grip attribute to all eq was the biggest mistake of test server by far and I cannot comprehend why you did it. Not only you forced people to spend money on already fully attributed equipment but also messed up balance for equipment pieces that had vast grip before entire rework.

[vagrant kayak]

strength increases uh healing and rune dmg. all equipment needs str or else it is useless, noone picks 2% protection if he in return heals 5% less. the only alternative to what eldrin did would have been to put full str on properties and left vast grip as + skill property on items for extra damage. that would have saved people millions who had to unlock new attributes now but it also wouldve increased knight dmg with end tier eq even further. idk if thats balanced with all the damage that came with the update?

[frail niche]

Yeah, you right. I humbly prefer my approach on ring/food metter.
But hey, what about strength milestones buff?
This could make 1 strength conts a lot.
In my case I have one HFA, but it gives me just 6 o STR, MPA gives me 9 STR, but 3 STR is not so impacting for me to back to use an MPA. But if this 3 STR unlock a new milestone wich turn this decision tough to make

[finite thistle]

Removing +melee properties and attributes was intended from the very beginning. It would not be balanced at all. For example, all the extra skills from Suffering set would increase melee damage by about 120 per hit with sheol axe and about 200 per hit with great axe. So about 33%. With this balanced in mind, strength would need to have less bonuses, or skills would have to matter less. And a lot of gear would need melee property or attributes anyway.

[runic nova]

Knight melee for that dmg is op where? Ice hmm hunts going to higher exp?

[frail niche]

But give you 1% dmg output in higher levels should be Hard. Becouse you are not grinding for make your Life easier but for have something different than most ppl.
Think this as bodybuilding. In some moment you will grind a lot for small muscle that is almost not noticed

[small tapir]

I can understand that and I wouldnt really mind it if hellforged armor (and other equipment) didnt get randomly buffed with additional damage they never had and shouldnt have. If we assumed that there was balance between hellforged armor and umbral before rework and compare results to what we have after the rework hellforged armor started beating umbral in 95% of scenarios. And it's lower tier of armor!

[lime nimbus]

Hellforged set is a thing of past. There is absolutely no justification why it's even remotely close to Umbral. Literally dropped by 150-250 level mobs. @finite thistle you said you balanced the items around monster level that drops them. Ogres, azures and undead dragons are a joke compared to aividem and corruptors.

[finite thistle]

I think it is also time to remove % resistances and replace it with actual values, like strength. So for example 5% stays 5% on intended level, but as you level up, that becomes lower and lower and you have to eventually switch the armor. I wouldn't mind adding physical resistance to all knight armors.

[frail niche]

Yes, makes sense with new formula where dmg/skill growns almost exponentially.
I guess ppl still comparing dmg output of melee hit with no str and with endgame full set str. I agree that you should not be your set, this is p2w. Dmg should come for what is not buyable (Skill) and that's how it is now.
Sets now just give a little help, their main objective is not to give dmg but protection (talking as a Knight)

[thick solstice]

Can't wait to be punished for playing the game

[lime condor]

It's not too late to delete this

[frail niche]

You could just give more strength to equips that already have vast grip before. I guess this would help

[storm carbon]

Easily belongs to top 10 worst ideas ever, being actively punished for playing.

[noble torrent]

First of all I think hfa should be rank 250 tops, angelic 300, umbral 400

And str should be given according to that item ranking

[frail niche]

I understand why Eldrin is upset. Too much ppl asking for more buffs. Game is almost 100% easier for low lvl knights and you still want more.

[vagrant kayak]

thx wigfrid

[frail niche]

You want to nerf HFA? Cuz it's easier to get?

[small tapir]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1007636047586394122.gif?size=44&quality=lossless

[noble torrent]

Sure I do I can't see the reason it's equal to umbral

[lime nimbus]

@frail niche Either buff umbral or nerf hfa. They shouldn't even lay on the same shelf, let alone being equal.

[frail niche]

Wait, before the update it was ok? or is just now that the problem appeared?

[vagrant kayak]

you and all others here are dillusional. have you checked how many lvl 300 knights there exist and how many angelic platemails? 90% of knights wont have one and be nerfed effectively but ey why would u care, you are one of the lucky ones to own all three lol. It is perfectly fine that HFA is base set for a lvl 350. Especially now that you progress slower and wont find a better armor for ages and it is perfectly fine and right that the status quo armor you need to not suck is easily available, else all knights be fucked

[lime nimbus]

Base set for lvl 350, farmed by 150 eks and 200 druids. Makes sense 🤷‍♂️

[frail niche]

Where? I want to be rich. Spoilers please

[vagrant kayak]

in what world do lvl 150s farm UDs for hfas? maybe on highrate but certainly not on legacy

[frail niche]

Not even in high rate. He is been delusional right now

[lime nimbus]

I'm talking about the helmet and legs. UDs farmable at 250 too on serpentine

[frail niche]

Nice, so at lvl 250 u can grind your 350 lvl item. I think thats ok as it is

[vagrant kayak]

by the time u have looted a HFA at the few UD in serp, you are probably 300 if u started at 250 lol

[frail niche]

I could agree with a downgrade of HFA to lvl 300 and more STR (10-15) to Umbral Armor. More than that is insane...

[finite thistle]

Adding 15 strength to umbral platemail would make it equal to armor of suffering.

[vagrant kayak]

i have a great suggestion for mages @lime nimbus lets nerf all mage legs except demonbone legs, because it is perfectly reasonable to lock vocations power behind ultra rares

[runic nova]

Nobody is satisfied with the items currently. It doesn’t feel worth to chase or buy new items. Whatever or whenever the change happens it does need to happen IMO

[quasi berry]

instead of all armors following a linear progression cant you have sets scale into different paths? trading str for defense as an example, maybe 1 set has high resistances but low str so its better for when your focused on healing instead of dealing damage

[upper rapids]

that would be nice

[vagrant kayak]

while i agree with eldrin with more dmg stats, this holds truth as well. maybe increasing tank stats on high tier equipment is a good solution? nano suggested similar earlier

[runic prairie]

Doesn't work, because str is indirectly tied to defence in that it provides power to healing.

[frail niche]

Armor of suffering already had vast grip? If Yes, buff it accordly. As i said, all itens that used to have vast grip are worse when you look to the whole picture.
That's because itens that previously lack of skill bonus now have bonus.
Compare new Demonic Axe full with Executioner Sword full. Demonic got full buffed and is now way better than ES.

[quasi berry]

property that increases healing?

[lime nimbus]

Listen mate, you're deep in your feelings right now. Relax for a minute. I think we can all agree that Hellforged set pieces are easily farmable by low level characters. Prices of these pieces prove my point. Legs are sold to the NPC, hfa 1.5kk on Legacy. The set shouldn't be close to Angelic or Umbral, period.

[small tapir]

lower strength from property and attribute of hfa so that there is noticable difference (as it was before rework) between hfa and umbral. If necessary adjust same stats on all eq that received vast grip on test server

[finite thistle]

On test server I have reduced hellforged set item level to 300 and soon post how it affects these items.

[runic prairie]

By that standard angelic should be worse, because it's sold for 1kk

[vagrant kayak]

yikes. cant wait to farm angelic armor as lvl 300 knight to upgrade from HFA. super rare from creature that spawns in small amounts in two places on the map, can headshot me and requires a team XD

[lime nimbus]

Story would be different if it only dropped from Holy Sentinel and not from a chest where 40 noob chars hug the altar. Bad design if anything, wouldn't you agree?

[runic prairie]

Well, it can't be gotten from the chest (atleast not for the last 2? years)

[thick solstice]

Angelic and Umbral niche armors, why nerf hfa? holy fuck bann wiggy already

[cyan basin]

just buff umbral, dont make more changes im trying to enchant hfa omg

[orchid tulip]

things are being balanced around legacy but should be taken into consideration that ppl have been able to farm Hellforged set for how many years? church and aividem are not that old, for sure the price would be lower with that huge active community

[small tapir]

how was umbral niche armor? it was used by literally everyone who thought logically after lvl 400+. It was basically more offensive hfa that was exceptionally good against chaos mobs and to some extend death mobs. Now it's just okay for 3 hunting spots.

[valid dew]

Talking armors, when are we getting 100% armor penetration back on the annihilator? Thanks you

[noble torrent]

It's possible to finish aiviem at 330lvl as ek so church isn't big deal

[orchid tulip]

i can relate, we did aividem with no umbral armor till very late, i got my legs at level 290 while the knight was 300ish, but thats on odyssey.. i think ppl may be much higher before reaching aividem unless tryhard on it

[cyan basin]

we all agree that umbral is better than hfa, however if you nerf hfa str it will directly affect the healing power, which is not the objective because the previous difference was damage. so if you will do anything just buff umbral

[frail niche]

As i said before, the easy way is to buff all itens that previously had vast grip.

[small tapir]

Apparently low lvls knights are completely demolishing the game currently, maybe eq strength should scale slowlier to mitigate this problem and to give opportunity to nerf stuff like HFA without having to resort to buffing anything further

[cobalt imp]

idk if having strength affect dmg and healing power is a good idea cause its hard to balance

[frail niche]

Idk if you guys read this, but, what you think about Strength milestones bonus? Like you have 50+ STR and receive a buff for it?

[frail niche]

Wich level is low to you?

[small tapir]

150-300

[cobalt imp]

thats mostly because weapon attack doesnt scale down only strenght, but weapon attack matters way more

[frail niche]

More than weapon attack is the skill... STR balance in this case will not change anything

[rain berry]

Having strength also affect spell power maybe wasn't the best solution, unless there is a big difference in resists, there's no reason to use anything that have lower strength since it'd not only affect dmg but also healing

[frail niche]

And i think low lvl knights shall be as they are now... Improved level up, better way to farm and hunt... Now you can play alone for many levels

[cobalt imp]

agree

[frail niche]

Of course that is... Let's imagine a Knight 170 wich get 7 STR from an HFA and 9 from an MPA. Would you go with MPA?

If yes, than congratz, you received more 2 x 1.2 x 2.6 = 6 avg heal from UH.

[cobalt imp]

in general the bonus healing from uh is way better than %res

[finite thistle]

This is how it would look like, if armors without Vast Grip in the past would give lower bonus from attributes (50%/~50%) (property rounded down, attribute rounded up) and armors with Vast Grip in the past would give higher bonus (50%/70%). Currently it is 50%/60% for every armor.

+------------------------+------+---------------------+---------------------+
| Armor                  | ILVL | Current             | New                 |
+------------------------+------+---------------------+---------------------+
| skeleton armor         | 150  | 6+8 (14) [21 dmg]   | 6+9 (15) [22 dmg]   |
| elite knight armor     | 180  | 8+9 (17) [25 dmg]   | 8+11 (19) [28 dmg]  |
| revenant armor         | 200  | 9+10 (19) [28 dmg]  | 9+12 (21) [32 dmg]  |
| magic plate armor      | 200  | 9+10 (19) [28 dmg]  | 9+9 (18) [27 dmg]   |
| demon armor            | 230  | 10+12 (22) [33 dmg] | 10+10 (20) [30 dmg] |
| icebound armor         | 240  | 10+13 (23) [35 dmg] | 10+15 (25) [38 dmg] |
| vanadinite armor       | 240  | 10+13 (23) [35 dmg] | 10+11 (21) [32 dmg] |
| red scale armor        | 250  | 11+13 (24) [36 dmg] | 11+15 (26) [39 dmg] |
| Sulphira's scale mail  | 260  | 11+14 (25) [38 dmg] | 11+12 (23) [35 dmg] |
| dwarven armor          | 270  | 12+14 (26) [39 dmg] | 12+12 (24) [36 dmg] |
| hellforged armor       | 300  | 15+19 (34) [51 dmg] | 15+16 (31) [47 dmg] |
| agavan armor           | 330  | 14+17 (31) [47 dmg] | 14+20 (34) [51 dmg] |
| virulent armor         | 330  | 14+17 (31) [47 dmg] | 14+20 (34) [51 dmg] |
| angelic platemail      | 360  | 16+19 (35) [53 dmg] | 16+22 (38) [57 dmg] |
| mephitic armor         | 380  | 16+20 (36) [54 dmg] | 16+23 (39) [59 dmg] |
| umbral platemail       | 400  | 17+21 (38) [57 dmg] | 17+25 (42) [64 dmg] |
| armor of suffering     | 500  | 24+29 (53) [80 dmg] | 24+34 (58) [88 dmg] |
+------------------------+------+---------------------+---------------------+```
I hid some lower level armors so message can be sent.

Total damage is damage from weapon and explosion (1 target).

[frail niche]

But Hellforged Armor does not have vast grip as property now.

[finite thistle]

That's why 15+16 and not 15+22

[orchid tulip]

what is mephitic armor if i may ask, my 3 blokers of aividem have their own umbral platemail while all being closer to 300 than 400 and never saw that armor in between, im asking cuz it maybe should be better/give more atributes than umbral, didnt it?

[frail niche]

So the objetive is to make HFA have vast grip now? Sorry, i'm confused about it

[cobalt imp]

so basically u would only upgrade an armor if u want more damage, because id assume the difference from hfa and angelic in terms of a combination of healing and resistance would be about the same

[eternal mural]

Shouldnt u take a look at how much resistances items for all vocations give and balance it around their item lvl because to me its crazy how much resistances some low lvl items give compared to end game items