knights feedback

[finite thistle]

Test server is up.

[valid turret]

Since the 25% increase damage comes from all sources the gain of rage points should also come from all damage and not only physical

[noble torrent]

Also I think it should work with shield now too

[vagrant kayak]

we just cut knight melee dmg by half on testserver because you could hit 2k with lvl 600, 190 skills and BIS weapon but rangers hitting,4.5k is fine 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️. honestly eldrin, you panicked. you went from 90% status quo to 130% and then back 90% instead of finding a reasonable middle ground. if you wanna keep skills useless and melee dmg identical, atleast increase atk speed under spell. right now we gain legit nothing

[dire whale]

The test server should be published somewhere where ppl have easy access i dont see the point in hiding it in depths of forums. Put it on fucking main page of the homepage i mainly see top tier players testing and complaining just to even get a real feedback of the whole community ...... im out 😘

[raven surge]

@finite thistle wtf? Why no speed??

[vagrant kayak]

incurso vs sd that u spam every round? idk

[raven surge]

2h same speed as One handed,

[eternal mural]

knights arent supposed to be insane single target dmg though.

[hearty thistle]

but at least should do some damage at high skill, doest make sense have skill 115 and hit like a baby

[finite thistle]

With berserk and critical hit.

[raven surge]

So what? back to just use onehanded no one likes the dubble time to swing with 2h,

[vagrant kayak]

how does one extra incurso every now and then at the cost of 25% more damage taken help anyone? melee dmg remains the same, midlvl ek still struggle, nothing changes

[winter owl]

Its only combo, can you show how much dmg you deal in like 30 sec?

[eternal mural]

so use decimate or berserk cant expect to do insane dmg without any cost

[hearty thistle]

insane damage "hitting 500 wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" 500 with critical hit btw

[vagrant kayak]

amen, one combo vs dps big difference

[winter owl]

Yea, in all game when some class is balance then you should no show us best combo dmg only dps in like 1-2min, that is diffrent. with pally that will be HUGE diff

[split vessel]

139 archer DPT 384 / 253 knight DPT 470 hmm

[hearty thistle]

true, using opener to do brutal damage doesnt mean that u will keep hitting this every minute

[valid dew]

we all discussion 3-4K combos, meanwhile top MS ingame has 5k dmg ue full screen

[rose swan]

So to sum up changes (based on my character)
Nerf 220,5 dmg on explo dmg (3 targets)
Buff for 1h dps by 123,5 dmg
Uh healing nerfed by 3.25%.
So if mob has higher armor like demon,ashlord,shadow drake (or you hunting with full def) you recevied significant nerf with all these changes.

[winter owl]

but MS can replay that combo 7-8 times every cooldown?

[raven surge]

Yupp. Nice changes 😵‍💫

[late heron]

What about, instead of giving extra auto attack damage, you ramp up the fury generation a lot. That would make it much more difficult to facetank super hard monsters because to access the "free damage" you have to regularly go exhausted for 2 seconds..

[raven surge]

Same attack speed as before, and keep dmg as is it now.

[static kite]

@finite thistle what about an idea with different weapon usage? For example aoe hits etc

[hard night]

Why are we making a damage range that is 4x the min damage now again? Why would a knight with high skills hit between 300 and 1100? Why would that logic exist? Are we gonna change SD damage as well from 400-2200? Make it more consistant, but balance the formula. Speed of 2h definitly needs to be higher than current state if the damage has such an insane spread.

[grim flint]

Imo 2sec attack of 2h weapon is what was making bloodstance interesting and 2h useful. Today i will hopefully test those changes

[finite lance]

So from the feedback knight went from super buff to little nerf? 😂

[winter owl]

Only if you have good eq, if not then more that little nerf

[finite lance]

Don’t get how balance testing is being done. Probably smaller steps would be the right way, dunno

[winter owl]

I have only hope when test will end all classes will be balanced, beacuse i saw only changes on EK already

[finite lance]

Feel like going from berserk mode to rat mode

[vagrant kayak]

swipe to maintain status quo!

[hard night]

Yes because people have been posting examples of knights who have 140+ skills in medivia RN and sheol gear, OFC they are going to hit like trucks

[winter owl]

i based 200 lv 100 skill then for me all its nerf what i look medivia and test

[vagrant kayak]

nerf for the guy with the 160 skills. im sure the regulars with avg skills will be off way better

[finite lance]

Im honest, I’m lvl 150 with 114/114 (progeny ofc) and first update I was just too strong with full demonic axe and hf Set. But with the recent changes the dmg buff seems to be all gone

[winter owl]

Still played ek low-middle lvl and powergaming always was painful but after update in that postion will be more painful. Keep wall all low-middle solo player ek. Now you will be masochist

[finite lance]

I don’t get why it must be the compete opposite to change it from too mich of a buff to nerf

[lime nimbus]

Top tier players who play Medivia since Tibianic are in fact the ones who provide valuable feedback. Who else is Eldrin supposed to listen to? Random ppl who just arrived on Eternum launch from some FerumbrasOT?

[hearty thistle]

random? you are not special mate, u are just a number between us 😛

[hard night]

The people who can provide valuable feedback can be counted on one hand, theres no filter needed to avoid other players getting on it. Theres literally no downside to having more poeple on a testerver.

[eternal mural]

u think all these knights that said they were fine on test yesterday gave good and honest feedback? any1 with a working brain could have seen they were severly overtuned

[dire whale]

Just sayin the games wants attention and new players but keep it in a small circle? Dnno if im stupid but makes no sense to me

[hard night]

No, and if you would read my comment again, you´d realize thats not at all what I said 😄

[lime nimbus]

I never mentioned myself, my man. Just replied to another comment. You deny that people who have 10+ years experience on Medivia know what they are talking about?

[rotund solstice]

i mean you were agruing against my factual numbers on the strength scaling yesterday, so even though you played this game forever you dont seem to be able to use your eyes, why should your feedback be worth more than anyone elses?

[vagrant kayak]

almost all knights agreed it was too much 🤷🏻‍♂️

[hearty thistle]

Also jsut to point it out, when the DEVS decided to change Medivia map and Sprites (edit), the player who play Medivia since Tibianic, @lime nimbus , was saying that Medivia was going to die with this changes. So I dont believe that we can trust so much on feedbacks coming from old players, most of you just want to see the game stuck in a position without any changes on the game. 🙂

[finite lance]

I guess no one argued over it, just as myself many other said knights were too strong. From what I’m reading now (couldn’t test it myself yet) knights turned to the complete opposite now. That feels somewhat strange.

[hearty thistle]

it was hit hard indeed, but now its really bad, maybe something between the damage from yesterday to today

[finite lance]

Yea that’s how I ment. To tweet everything in small steps.

[hard night]

It feels like an overcorrection that now yields no benefits. The 2h stance now means, you take 25% more damage and you can exori every 100 fury gauge, which is the equivilent of taking my entire hp pool as damage to cast it once. Other than that, the stance provides nothing else.

[hearty thistle]

and its a berserker mode, I never seen a berserker mode hitting slow and same damage, taking more damage its fine, but atk speed or more damage its part of it passively

[hard night]

Maybe a different route for the 2h stance would be to reduce the overall total HP of the knight while in this stance, so bogus ideas like 2h tanking to speed up teamhunts or EKs soloing large monsters doesnt happen, but maybe at least EKs could hunt more efficient solo, at times even be a teamhunt benefit instead of just being a glorified meatshield? Its just an idea that popped up. Because I can still see super high level EKs just duo hunting church and other places (based on yeseterday) with a 2hander and blast through because they dont need to be worried to drop from a combo.

[static kite]

balance should be about manipulating the numbers right after introducing the new mechanic, not removing it. Based on exp/h on popular exp sites, not on dummy targets xd

[naive shale]

Solution:

Damage from Skills between yesterday/today
2H weapon with normal attack speed (2s).

Moreover, if want to add something to spice knights, make AoE damage while using 2H (25%~33%) of hit damage

[noble torrent]

Idk why u all want to boost this 2h weapons so much if they are only situational and it should not be changed

[static kite]

Every change that boost solo ek exp/h is good

[finite lance]

Would atleast be cool to be less dependent on others when it comes to factions.

[hearty thistle]

let me go on berserker mode, do the same damage and same atk speed, Im angry and raging only exclusively to take more damage because im masochist...

[grim flint]

Well, we want to boost them exactly because they are very situational

[finite thistle]

I kept Fury Gauge generation the same but increased attack speed of two handed weapons while using the spell to 2500ms.

[vagrant kayak]

Two extra attacks with avg dmg 400 that does not ignore defence every 30s but if I healed 4 times before in those 30s, I now heal 5 times, so I lose 1 explo shot on 2-3 creatures that completly ignores defence for 800 dmg that don‘t. The fury generation must be really high to make that worthwhile, because otherwise this is pretty much a zero or tiny benefit spell that only increases risk of getting headshot

[finite thistle]

You lose 0.5 explo shot, UH exhaust is 1s not 2s.

[finite lance]

Will I be weaker than before cause I ain’t got level req for my gear?

[cobalt imp]

so u deal 21% more dps with the spell?

[finite thistle]

Extra melee damage cannot be too high, as some of you pointed it out. It is a "free" damage, while EXPLO runes cost gold.

[finite thistle]

Log into the test server and see it for yourself.

[real wing]

I don't think knights should be balanced around someone with 160 skills, i agree eks yesterday were over tuned but now you've gone the complete other direction and gutted them, hopefully this gets revisited.

[halcyon dirge]

a little bit off topic from dmg formulas and such but maybe change the bloodlust stance aura from white to a slightly red? bit better to see it active on screen i guess

[real wing]

yeah i hit like a wet noodle now 😂

[frosty kelp]

any chance to bring the min dmg up while spell is active ?

[lucid light]

So we just have to take your word for it?

[hearty thistle]

@finite thistle is this right? or it will be removed? att for + skill

[meager nimbus]

Should let eks that trained for so many hours to get highers skills have higher damage, but don't start the balance just starting on them, talking for me, but i don't want to spend 3 months skilling to get decent damage and start "enjoying the game" now or in 200 more levels, "when You get better XP on skeletons warlords and stuffs"

Berserk should gives the 2seg, if not, taking 25% more damage is not worthy, and it already is just for some situations, can't be using it all the time. Balance around yesterday numbers and maybe reduce the maximun, but i don't see knights spamming exori every 2segs like SD's on archers, so would be fair to from time to time havea good hit (like critical) and then just have strong numbers to kill 1by1 Melee

[frosty kelp]

oh also do we know the formula for the skills merged ?

[ivory wren]

You are seeing the top eks doing that! I play on odyssey. Look this situation: Do you think its fair a pally do 1kk/h+ with profit while a knight can do 720k/h with profit. Both on the same lvl range (350 +-)? I think 1kk waste per task is affordable. I want the chance to do that. I tested azures on my 350 knight, i can kill some but it doesnt worth the time and the exp ( 550k/h on a 2x rate server) but at least i could kill them.

[finite lance]

I got it, but even if I’d be open to put a lot of cash in it to get up my exp/h (waste so to say) I wouldn’t be able to do so as rune based dmg got nerfed.

So no matter how much I put in it won’t change anything. In difference, Palas and mages can do that if I’m not mistaken.

[rotund solstice]

it just feels really clunky to not have the attack speed be the same as the rune exhaust when youve been used to it for 25 years.

id prefer if you lowered the damage per hit slightly and make it swing every 2 seconds for the same overall dps, it will FEEL a lot smoother to use

[vagrant kayak]

thats another issue, timing 2s explos with 2.5s attack speed is just a mess, we will end up explos after eveyr 2.5s instead

[real wing]

revert the atk speed to what it was yesterdayand change the extra damage we take to 30% instead of 25% and see how that works

[hearty thistle]

30%? ahahha are u crazy? We already are using more UH and less explosion/exori. I dont see any good trade on it tbh, unless single target 1x1, but u will take ages to fill ur fury gauge. Imagine taking 30% more damage from 3 monters, its isane

[abstract blaze]

you already nerfed the damage and the strenght, give us the atk speed back, please :( its not worth using the new spell only to use the fury gauge

[finite lance]

Why not make bloodlust work with 1h too?

[real wing]

either way something has to give because i feel weaker on the test server now then my char on live

[stone blaze]

I feel like we need more balance. Yesterday 2h + spell was too strong, today is shit.

[abstract blaze]

i think the courrent new dmg and the atk speed feels nice

[real wing]

it's being balanced around lvl 600s with 160 skills which is a terrible way to balance the game

[runic prairie]

It isn't, yesterday I was doing way too much on my level 300 knight with 93 skill.

[stone blaze]

Today with no 50% speed attack is no worth to use spell. Dmg change not compensating UHs used

[real wing]

thats yesterday not today... today it was balanced around high eks hitting 4k+

[stone blaze]

Wot, im 555lev at test, 117 sword and havent seen more dmg than 850

[real wing]

that's exactly the point im making its been gutted, its not worth using for the damage you take

[runic prairie]

It was overnerfed, would be fine if the attacktime was reduced again with current damage.

[real wing]

agreed it was over nerfed

was nerfed on the basis everyone had 583434058 skills and a full great axe

[rotund solstice]

and full suffering

[glacial cedar]

is this update going to realease by the end of this month ?

[real wing]

that's the plan

[static kite]

But you did the rework that transferred dmg from runes to melee (NO ONE asked to make knights more profitable) it would be enough to add a much higher minimum dmg and a few GOOD designed spawns ONLY for knights (to prevent abuse from high sorcs). Just because playing solo ek SUX, really SUX, their scaling does NOT exist, at some point mage vocs are better in every aspect. Absurdly higher exp/h, and profit enough to be able to constantly hunt (solo gameplay experience). Now we should call it nerf instead rework 🙂

[glacial cedar]

l quite enjoyed the ideia of the fury bar, for me it does not make any sense knights dont use attack skills cuz of the mana coast/price manapot. Using attack speels could help with the lack of damage we have during solo hunts, however takes forever to fill the fury bar up in order to use just 1 skill for free and also with the coast of 25% more damage taken, not worth it as everyone said already

[static kite]

In my opinion the idea of ​​adding fury makes sense if it is to completely replace mana. Lets take this line of reasoning further and maybe add stamina bar for archers? XD

[rain berry]

It was never free dmg, mages and archer hit from far away and pay with ammo/mana/runes, eks have to be in front off the creature and pay with blood (therefore we are obligated to use runes to heal). The "free hit" excuse was always stupid. If you wanting to make it more expensive, make the spell reduce our spell power and/or defense so we need more uhs to heal, that way solo hunting will be better and during team hunts all we need is to not use the spell to tank better and keep being just the meat shield for the shooters

[finite thistle]

Care to copy the values of your damage from runes and weapon, to see how much it decreased? Since you call it a nerf.

[abstract blaze]

but @finite thistle , are u planing to change something in the new ek spell? cause without atk speed its literaly useless

[finite thistle]

Test it again or read chat above.

[real wing]

it's a nerf in the sense the extra damage you get for the 25% damage increase you take is not worth it anymore.

[static kite]

It was enough for me to check the spawns that I've hunted so far, the damage tables are not everything, you changed the style of the hunt that are designed for 3x mob explo. Did you check it too? Or were you just standing next to dummy target all the time.

[abstract blaze]

im testing it and nothing changes, im doing the same dmg with / without the bloodlust

[finite thistle]

Attack speed is reduced from 3000ms to 2500ms.

[frosty kelp]

Eldrin, how was the skills merge calculated ?

[finite thistle]

sword skill tries + axe skill tires + club skill tires + fist skill tries = new skill tires

[real wing]

Bloodlust spell is benefits are not worth the extra damage you take anymore if left as is it will be a spell that only 500+ use

[abstract blaze]

why not making it 2000ms like 1 hand? we are taking 25% more dmg to this

meanwhile pally is hitting 700 on auto atk and 1k on sd lvl 180

[finite lance]

Dont forget double atk from paladins, dist buff pushed it even more

[outer gulch]

Mephitic Armor should have more strenght than Umbral Platemail.

[normal tendon]

very nice update in the average of basic damage of the knight, but the new magic will not be so useful, it could be reformulated so that the knight really has an advantage when activating it.

[analog surge]

why not just give us eks a explo sword that does aoe dmg just like druids have, with there spell and bursts, not op at all ^^

[vagrant kayak]

the spell feels underwhelming, i dont see myself using it. the atk difference is unnoticable and timing runes to it is horrible and the issue with the extra incurso from fury stacks is that its too hard to manage. like what am i gonna do once i have 100 fury? use it super ineffieciently on 2-3 mobs? i cant go and box and make use of it, because after one incurso im standing there, eveyrthing still alive and it's gonna be really awkward. change it so we can stack up multiple incursos and then load off multiple at once to more effectively kill an entire box maybe?

[normal tendon]

i'm too

[hard night]

I like this state better yeah. Im not sure more attack speed from out on here is going to do any good, but the damage formula is much more stable and the 2.5 weapon swing seems okay. Could be 2.25 maybe im not sure, but so far I like it. Gives me old times EK vibes, hitting shit down again 1 by 1 😄 is there a reason you lose the fury gauge when you leave the stance, for example when shit goes south?

[grim flint]

Any feedback about hunting old style 3x explo? Runes nerfed much?

[last pier]

I know that nobody cares that much, but very beginners and newbies will have quite a hard time, 40lvl lvl with 55 skill will have ~20-25% dmg less, depending on weapon used, if you count in dmg absorbed by armor it's even more (30%). It will be even worse if monster have more armor. 1h weapons used.
Please don't make it even more afk meta for newbies 🫡

[hard night]

I think thats really tough to balance, but ive been playing around with the idea of a 3x1 cleave front of EK, but again, really tough to balance so its not abused I think, could be wrong

[bronze saffron]

where link for teste server?

[vagrant kayak]

depends on level, on lvl 250 with hf set my explo dmg is identical, on 500+ it is nerfed by roughly 10%

[stone blaze]

Check pins

[halcyon dirge]

yesterday I was excited about the new spell (even tho it felt op and needed some changes) , today I'm not even considering using it tbh if it goes live the way it is right now

[finite thistle]

I did some calculations and with current changes it doesn't seem to be too broken to decrease it back to 2000ms. Your DPS would increase by 14% and waste by 4%. You would deal 7920 more damage for 445 more gold. If you would use EXPLO runes to deal that damage, it would take you 19 turns, so 1615 gold.

Damage from "free" Decimate/Berserk spells was not counted.

For example:

Let's assume the following:
- you are fighting one target at time.
- your average two handed weapon hit is 540 damage.
- your average EXPLO hit is 420 damage.
- you heal once per 5 turns.
- UH rune costs 140 gold per use.
- EXPLO rune costs 85 gold per charge. 

Before (100 turns):
- 20 UHS used, 2800 gold
- 90 EXPLO used, 37800 damage, 7650 gold
- 33 melee hits, 17820 damage
- 55620 damage for 10450 gold

After (100 turns):
- 25 UHS used, 3500 gold
- 87 EXPLO used, 36540 damage, 7395 gold,
- 50 melee hits, 27000 damage
- 63540 damage for 10895 gold

Yes, you need to heal more frequently, that would make you use less EXPLO runes, but it's not as high as you think. 25% is not that much.

[vagrant kayak]

Thanks for the example. That's a 14% dmg increase, right? However won't we UH more when we block multiple creatures? Which we will if we explo.

[static kite]

why we are assuming one target at time? spawns are designed to lure 3 mobs and shot explos. Idk about u guys but I use hmms for single mob XD Compare old 1h + shield and 3mob explo vs 2h and new spell

[hearty thistle]

who hunt 1x1? at HL o.O

[rose swan]

new meta 600k exp/h and worse profit 😄

[normal tendon]

haha who?

[rain berry]

It's either buffing to the moon or nerfing to the ground lmao

[hearty thistle]

Like, 25% damage from 3 monters, its a lot, your usage of UH will increase, which means less explosion. So I cant see a good trade on it to be honest. for single target OK. but EK hunting single target at HL will take ages to get level

[normal tendon]

I can't either, I think it's terrible

[hard night]

Yes but please lets not pretend like the game only has HL to balance around

[finite lance]

I see paladins dmg going from runes to arrows/bolts. So fast hand property will have a way bigger effect than before. Was it taken into calculations?

[finite thistle]

Yes.

[hearty thistle]

Bro, even level 150 hunt killing 3 by 3, whats the chance to this work? At least a level 150 can kill 1 by one, but any EK 200+ will kill 3 by 3 because if a solo player dont do that will stuck at the level for ages...

[halcyon dirge]

maybe on eternum lol

[hard night]

On staged servers yes, but the game is not balanced around that and shouldnt be imo

[rain berry]

Don't worry, low levels will have an awful time too, it was posted above how low levels will have a 20% nerf to max dmg with this new change

[normal tendon]

testing the new spell I could see that it doesn't pay to do more physical damage while you lose more life and can't keep the gfb damage because you have to heal more often

[hearty thistle]

"maybe on eternum huuuur duuuur" What a shit argument mate, Medivia is not about Legacy and Destiny, need to cover all the other servers. And also have more servers like Pendulum, Eternum etc than legacy and Destiny, and more active players on those server than Legacy + Destiny, so yes, its more smart to make a balance based on Eternum, progeny etc 😛

[rose swan]

It's not just 25% more dmg compared to 1h and shield but like 30-40% more dmg ppl tend to forget that

[hard night]

I disagree. Look at the faction tasks, on Staged Servers you are doomed to farm shit mobs on a too high level, exactly because its designed to fit the Legacy Xp Rate. There is a baseline to this game, and its not staged servers. Its legacy.

[finite lance]

What’s the intention to bring in level req btw? People put a lot of afford (money and time) in it and now most of them can’t even make use 100% out of it.

[quartz pendant]

so basically new spell is worthless now?

[naive shale]

Thanks Rzaba. It's really a mess for low level. It's already a struggle to go from 1 to 300+, now it will be more shit than ever.

[small tapir]

I'm very confused about your complaints. You can literally hunt the same way as you did before patch and you will pretty much have exact same outcome (not taking into account lvl squish and wearing proper eq). The only difference is that you can use 2h weapon thats gonna have new benefits if used correctly. Berserk dmg got nerfed a bit which should be reverted slightly since melee dmg got lowered and thats it.

[vagrant kayak]

It's still work in progress, let's wait what it ends up being. Eldrins example above used 2000ms attack speed and demonstrated a 14% dmg increase during spell, excluding the extra incursos. I think that's reasonable. If they now make it so you can stack up more incursos so you can manage them better and kill entire boxes with it when you have multiple stored, I think it's good. I still wish skills had bigger impact on damage and I also feel saying it is "free" is nonsensical, because a single skill past 110 takes hundreds of hours which is a lot of money if you hunted instead.

[finite thistle]

I was about to say this. You are not forced to use the spell when you are using two handed weapons. It's not automatically applied when you equip this kind of weapon. If you do not like something, don't use it. I give you a choice. While this spell will not be too attractive when fighting three targets at once, it will be much better when dealing with a single target. This is a reason why I assumed you fight a single target in my calculations.

Use if when you think it's worth it. Don't if you don't like it. It's as simple as that. Nothing about two handed weapons has changed when you are not using the spell.

[small tapir]

By design it's quite obvious it should be spell mostly used for teamhunts and against single targets and for some reason people try to find the most obscure way of hunting with this spell to later complain about it.

[valid turret]

Did you take in consideration that we take elemental damage/spell damage + physical on most hunts?

[rose swan]

Same way? With top2 skills on server I'll deal 220,5 dmg each turn less from explo (3 targets) for benefit of 123,5 more damage with auto-attack (only if full attack) imagine if someone has ~105 skills difference is even greater.

[finite thistle]

Fury Gauge was not taken into consideration. But extra healing that comes from all types of damage was. So the DPS increase is even higher, if you use it.

[finite thistle]

Are you perhaps undergeared? This would happen no matter if the spell was implemented or not. This applies to all vocations.

[valid turret]

When considering the 50uh for the extra exori

[finite thistle]

See my message above. So in this example, you take 100% elemental damage and no fury is generated. If you take even a small portion of physical damage, damage output is even higher.

[rose swan]

Most 500~ levels wear full hellforged set on destiny/legacy. It applies to all of them

[finite thistle]

Maybe it's a time for an upgrade? You shouldn't stick to the same equipment for 300 levels.

Why do they wear this set? Is it because it was not worth upgrading, since gear didn't matter and barely affected your damage?

[static kite]

because %phys redu lol

[small tapir]

im gonna get typical set of legacy knight and ill see the results

[finite thistle]

You can't expect me to adjust it in a way, that hellforged armor is good for 300-600 level, because it's what you wear right now.

[lucid light]

Finally got up to speed on the discussion. So all the good changes that were introduced and finally made EK solo gameplay fun were revert. Good job to all involved, guess I'm not coming back to the game after all.

[finite thistle]

By fun you mean broken?

[sand jackal]

Lvl 300+ here... I rly enjoy 2000ms atkspd...
I like to hunt solo as ek, i like to feel like an enraged berserker swinging atcks...
This skill provides it, just gotta be decently adjusted...

I like warrior class... I dont want to be forced to be tank, i like to have the option to be a dps warrior...

Think eldrin have this view and i like it...

[analog surge]

demonic faction is not possible to be done when you have a wife and kids, atleast not if u want to play for fun

if you want to live in peace and are an ek

[static kite]

naah, u are forced to do 3x times less exp/h comparing to rest of vocs, ofc before it u need to spend months for skilling. gl bro

[grim flint]

Imo you should make 2 spells.

1. Bloodstance, 2h weapon, generated when YOU hit, for gauge you can use only decimate
2. Other spell, work only when 1h plus shield, gauge generated when monsters hit you, for gauge you can hit only incurso.

[lucid light]

From what I've read it was only broken on lvl500+ chars with the best gear and skills. Statistically, how many people are on that category? Would it not be better to adjust only these outliers? Now everyone suffers.

[vagrant kayak]

Yesterday was broken, 100%. Today the spell is roughly 14% dmg increase while melee dmg with average skills that you defined for each level remains pretty much identical, so knights stay the same except for a 14% (plus some incursos) dmg increase during spell. The incursos are hard to manage, because can store only one. Have you considered changing the system so more incursos can be stored? Otherwise I think it would be nicer to just increase the dmg during spell to roughly 20% and just scrap the fury idea, that random single incurso every now and then is too hard to efficiencly use imho

[finite thistle]

Gauge generation when you hit a target is not going to happen. Right click dummy, go afk, return after few minutes and enjoy your free damage. Rinse and repeat. Now, that is broken.

[valid turret]

Just dont ajust to everyone using sheol set cause most of ppl on destiny dont upgrade the set cause there are no New itens avaliable, I speak from experiência, took ages to drop my Umbral armor and thats our main hunt (the palladin on our pt stil doesnt have his and hunted there a Lot), we are not all on orsha ot loot.

[thick solstice]

I could solo undead dragons on level 200, and quite quickly too. Using hellforged set 100/99 in skills

[valid turret]

To the swipe Guy there are no umbral for ek/RP on market kkk

[finite thistle]

Everything is adjusted by taking skills from highscores (2000 characters) and a typical set this kind of player is wearing.

[finite lance]

Is it possible to show rune dmg/healing changed old -> new top?

[stone blaze]

I was testing two sets i have:

1. Hfh, hfa, angelic legs, golden boots
2. Umbral helmt, umbral platemail, angelic legs, umbral boots.

Its noticable differencce, about 100hp average more

[finite thistle]

For example, typical level 200 knight has 101 skill, magic level 7. This knight is using SCA, full HotFK, vanadinite armor, vanadinite legs and skeleton boots. It is not really that far from truth, is it?

[vagrant kayak]

that is a nerf though, isnt it? edit: if you conside´r seal boss eq the usual eq for a lvl 600 ek, it is not i guess but honestly how many 600 eks have full set of suffering?

[small tapir]

lvl almost 600, notice that almost entire eq could use upgrade

[valid dew]

cant believe u people are complaining about gear, be glad theres something left to upgrade and improve, i can understand u are salty aswell cause its hard to get and if u have no friends u will never it either.

[valid turret]

Shield, Boots and Helmet you mean

[small tapir]

its a nerf because im using bad equipment for my lvl. You cant expect ppl to wear hellforged helmets on 600 and pretend its BiS lol

[edgy lagoon]

pally is hitting 700 + 1k on sd but u forget they get 40% hp reduciton and speed :X

[valid dew]

and its 380gp per turn

[static kite]

poor you :C

[vagrant kayak]

not bis but the point made earlier that average eq was foundation and do lvl 600s really averagly have the suffering set? herk for one just pointed out he doesnt and he is a 600 ek, same as whoevers char you use for testing

[edgy lagoon]

no no im arguing with him coz he cries about attack speed there saying pally hit this pally does that xd

[small tapir]

yes, I believe it's expected of 600s to have suffering set

[rose swan]

Clrealy it is made around 3x loot servers

[vagrant kayak]

you are apparently unable to make a difference between bis and "the eq a player of a certain level is actually using on average" and the later is what eldrin stated he based strength around

[stone vine]

in real situation nobody will buy these items casue they will need to change their gear again and again so they will just focus on BIS items available in-game. u just force them to buy more MC to have cash for it in this case.

in paladin calulations when i wear patched boots (+16 dex) then i have 19 MAX dmg more from xbow + 13 MAX dmg more from SD = 32 MAX dmg so 16 average dmg. So if ill spent 6kk (legacy price) for these boots ill have 16 more dmg I mean that currently i have umbral boots which are for ek and these 16 dmg doesnt matter and its totaly no sense to change them

same thing will be with mages. for example druids who using angelic legs (all voc) + hfa (ek) - looks like problem still not fixed ^^

[lucid light]

So everything is based on EQ now? Wasn't the idea to make SKILLS matter more? Training skills = time, that is the most precious commodity in the world. So now, you just need to invest $$$$ in good gear. I see...

[finite lance]

Shouldnt it be more like beneficial to have a typical set for your level instead of being „punished“ for not having it yet?

[small tapir]

all I see is people wearing bad sets on obnoxiously hlvls and trying to push for yet another buff so that they dont get affected by these new changes. These changes affect literally everyone negatively especially if you take into account lvl squish. Just accept that game will slightly change but if you put some effort and get proper set you will get back your power.

[sinful tangle]

"Literally everyone negatively" lol

[finite lance]

I for myself focused on phys res for example. Wouldn’t call that bad on general. In my opinion it depends on what you plan to do most of your time

[lucid light]

I've spent more than a thousand of hours in this game, and a good part of that was training. So now, all of that was for nothing, I'm forced to swipe the card to get a damage boost.

[vagrant kayak]

so we do agree it is a nerf for the majority of players, welly well! 😄

[small tapir]

yes, because people use sets that are not meant to be used on their lvl

[lofty saddle]

people "we want eq to matter" and "we want all eq to be very good"

[finite lance]

To me it seems it’s that hardly any vocation but knights complain about their changes, or am I mistaken? Isn’t that strange?

[rose swan]

I wanna see how other classes like archer looks after these changes when wears typical set like angelic i bet hes not nerfed after changes.

[valid dew]

archer seems fine in current state

[sinful tangle]

One thing I'm not sure eldrins calculations are taking into account is how unenjoyable it is to level an ek

[edgy lagoon]

except speed on spell xd

[valid dew]

speed is fine, if u have normal speed its broken as fuck

[vagrant kayak]

Anyway, I hope there is some further fine tuning done on the Berserker spell! Allow us to stock more incursos or make it increase strength again by a reasonable amount to push that 14% dmg buff to a 20% orso and it's all good. 20% dmg increase equals 20% more xp/h, that would be just fine to help midlvl knights with no sorcerr slave and priority rights at lbk to push through all these boring hours of frost dragon, hydra and dl

[stone vine]

not exactly dude because u have to lvl up for item to get fully spellpower from item property 🙂
but anyway this spellpower not matter so much if u will have 5 or 10

[stone vine]

ofc if u play solo all the time but not in team hunt

[rose swan]

Isn't it toggleable? for free?

[valid dew]

toggle it or dont use it at all problem fixed

[naive shale]

If one turn of healing/damage seens free for you, then it is

[valid dew]

It doesn't cost a turn

[static kite]

Healing is free, isnt it?

[rose swan]

you can cast it while moving to body

[stone vine]

if u cast spell then it is. anyway u have to make any action in this case so looting, skinning etc will be slower.
reason why u dont skining most of monster is because of wasting time and the same will be with this when u as 500 paladin will have to catch your party members with paralyze. specialy at monsters like gorgons/blood witches etc where u have to loot many trash loot

whatever its not archer thread... 🛑

[robust cave]

what is the advantage of using bloodlust now? just get 25% more? haha, very low damage scaling and very low rage regen too. if it were at least 2000ms per shift it would be feasible to use it, but as eldrin already said, no one is obliged to use it, so I'd rather go back to being ek than spam explosion

[sinful tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/look-how-they-massacred-my-boy-godfather-sad-cry-hurt-gif-16433641

[finite thistle]

It is 2000ms attack speed now.

[hard night]

If the changes as they are right now would go live, I would be happy with it for the most part. I dont think we need to "compete" with RP / MS in terms of damage / solo hunting capability, but we needed something to make it more accessible to hunt outside of team as EK, and now we do. At least in my book, this is an upgrade.

[real wing]

2500ms would be a decent atk speed for the extra damage you take from using bloodlust and keep the same damage as yesterday.

[hard night]

You would slow it down from now? oO

[cobalt imp]

can u reset the test server and use database from characters from last server save

[rose swan]

Why chaos shield doesn't have + strength? All shields for mages have + int starting from observer shield.

[lofty saddle]

Should definitely stay 2000ms, just feels better.

[vagrant kayak]

bumping this up due to people being unable to spell archer and knight

[real wing]

did not finish my msg my bad

[finite thistle]

Are there any specific equipment that you feel is under or overpowered? Or that some item should be better than the other? I will ask this question in all threads, so keep your feedback related to the vocation the thread is about.

Also, let me ask this question: is there any gear combination that you can't use anymore? Stuff like fire resistance set, amplify magic set, etc., because you would be losing a lot of damage if you want to have specific set effect.

[quasi berry]

what purpose do club weapons serve? now all weapons are merged into 1 class is there any point to not pick axe for 2h and swords for 1h and shield?

[static kite]

skills are merged now, what about an idea provided some time ago (clubs with cleave etc)

[sinful tangle]

Different attributes

[quasi berry]

club attributes are use less bro, Perseverance is a worse Parry and Crushing Blow is a worse version of Critical Hit and your sacrificing raw damage as clubs are always lower in attack then axes

[vagrant kayak]

watcher legs got a big downgrade, they went from +2 skills to worse than hfl dmg wise.

[sinful tangle]

I think being able to freely choose for a chance to increase your max health and ignore the targets defense could be useful.

[twilit eagle]

2handed swords and clubs should have an offensive attribute instead of defensive (parry, perseverance) as oppose to axe (crit). From what i understand you aim to make 2 handers glascannons which makes the defensive stat on 2hand swords and clubs kind of contradictory to what 2 hander are suppose to achive

[quasi berry]

maybe but id rather just kill things faster, and waste less

[small tapir]

angelic platemail should be stronger than hfa

[sinful tangle]

with a team*

[quasi berry]

with a team you have a healer and your max hp dont even matter aslong as your druid isnt sleeping

[sinful tangle]

Alright then maybe @finite thistle will address how useless clubs are based on your feedback

[storm carbon]

great axe is missing 1 attribute, it has only 4, while club + sword have 5, either make them all have 4 or 5

[raven wedge]

Bad idea on level requirement to be honest.. ur making same way cipsoft did xD
my opnion btw

[small tapir]

are there any plans to delete majority of duplicate/sister items now that weapon types are merged? I dont think we need 3 different great weapons for knight, 3 same sheol melee weapons, 3 same life drain weapons, 3 same ice 2h weapon from ice golem quest, 3 same meteorite weapons etc etc

[finite thistle]

There are no plans to remove them, they will most likely stay the way they are. But for sure it no longer will be necessary to create 3 copies of the same items from now on.

[static kite]

skills are merged now, what about an idea provided some time ago (clubs with cleave etc)

[small tapir]

its very hard to understand purpose of 1h axe weapons, 2h sword weapons, 2h club weapons which is why some major rework would be nice here.

[finite lance]

What’s the intention for the level req to give full bonus of eq btw? I mean we put afford in it to get and probably even attributed it. Means time or money was spent to get it. Don’t see any real reason not to use it 100%. Or is it just me?

[finite thistle]

It currently is not planned, but there is a room for some rework of weapon types now.

[finite thistle]

The answer is simple: to avoid overpowered low levels. You lost some power coming from level and it was moved to gear. If you have proper gear, you shouldn't see much difference. Now, what would happen if a low level would get a full bonus from eq? 10% of low level power is not equal to 10% of high level power. On low level, you lose, for example, 20 damage, and gain these 20 damage back from gear on your level. Or 200 damage from high level gear.

[sinful tangle]

Legitimate question. I dont understand why you're concerned by this

[quasi berry]

because it makes 1h axe 2h sword and 2h club obsolete?

[small tapir]

it adds mess and confusement to the game. would be nice to have some sort of consistency so players can find themselves in this mess such as all axes being 2h weapons, swords being 1h weapons and club something else. Rn there is lots of copies of the same items that serve no purpose

[slim cape]

Me myself havent tested this properly, but people told me chaos weapons are weaker than hailstorm/blazing greatsword despite latest buff. I think that they can be made absolute bis items, lets make it clear, they are the rarest, the most boring to farm and you rely on 3 shooters for chaos hydra hunt. I would remove self dmg totally, or make some quest that allows you to do it

[real wing]

do you think the current state of bloodlust is where it should be?

[sinful tangle]

Wouldn't more options be better for low/mid players? I dont see how this is a problem.

[small tapir]

I tested hailstorm on test server and it deals more damage than intended maximum. Pretty sure this weapons are bugged.

[finite lance]

Thanks for your reply. Im afraid it might have a negative effect on the economy when it’s less worth for „lower levels“ to buy high level equipment.

[quasi berry]

what is the option if it's always worse you want to drive Bugatti or Renault?

[finite thistle]

Physical and ice are two different combats, and most likely you only see physical damage formula. You should be able to see two, though. You must to add them up.

[small tapir]

in that case these weapons are overpowered

[sinful tangle]

I dont understand your analogy. I think you're speaking purely from the high level experience right? Im talking about giving players more options so they dont find themselves struggling for the meta at each step of their leveling experience.

[quasi berry]

what is the struggle? its not hard to get GS from banshee quest or dragon lance

[vagrant kayak]

hailstorm is bis, flaming greatsword is too situational due to many creatures being fire resistant to be called op imho, it's a very situational and there strong weapon, no question

[small tapir]

if these elemental weapons worked only on a small fraction of all monsters I could accept them being as strong as they are. However hailstorm deals ice damage which can deal damage to majority of monsters in this game so I think it's dmg should be toned down. Also it drops from relatively weak creature.

[sinful tangle]

So you want people to follow one track. At level 50 get this, at level 100 get this.. etc.

[eternal mural]

chaos weapons should convert dmg to chaos like kailstorm and blazing greatsword, feels like that would be better than the proc

[quasi berry]

better than swiping credit card and buying full attributes weapon yes.. why do you think devs started to lock them behind factions

[sinful tangle]

Are you saying devs locked items behind factions because those items are what the devs want you to get next?

[quasi berry]

..........

[finite thistle]

It has been toned down before test server launched (50%/50% to 75%/25%), but it still was not enough. It should look much better now.

[sinful tangle]

Because the point Im trying to make is simplifying those options doesn't always make things more fun. It just puts everyone on a single track. Im sure this kind of gameplay is familiar though. Google: "What is the best weapon for X level EK"

[cobalt imp]

are we gonna see a rework with the haste att?

[strange umbra]

@finite thistle are Knights stating with this damage?

[raven surge]

i do realy like the atk speed on 2handed right now, and the dmg feels good

[valid dew]

the spell to switch stance could it be changed so that it doesnt influence cooldown of healing?

[finite thistle]

Try now, exhaustion was reduced from 500ms to 200ms.

[valid dew]

Same for archers please!

[raven wedge]

this wand shouldnt have 2 atts instead of only presence of mind, i put first attribute and nothing hapenned

[small tapir]

I really, really dislike how I still get negative penalty of new spell after swapping to 1h and forgetting to disable spell. On top of that seems like I can't disable the spell while having 1h weapon equipped. Any plans to change how it works?

[edgy lagoon]

what if it was automatically toggled off when u swap weapon?

[robust cave]

no need to change, if it's an elemental weapon it has to be at least 50% elemental damage, otherwise use a weapon only physical damage, like executioner, demonic, lol

[thin sentinel]

pom still working even without the required lvl to use?

[karmic gorge]

There is no required level to use an item. The required level is only the level you get the full intelligence/strength/dexterity from an item.
Also this is knight thread.

[sinful tangle]

@finite thistle

if 1-handweapon.equiped and recklessAssault.on:
    allow.cast.recklessAssault

pls

[robust cave]

or did it do 75% elemental damage and 25% being physical?

[last pier]

We can make spell so it's useful for 1h (teamhunts) too, like no 25% penalty, no incurso and incurso min and longer effect of taunts. It would be spell for 2h solo and 1h teamhunts mostly that way

[finite thistle]

You should now be able to toggle stance off if you do not have two-handed weapon equipped.

[shy dagger]

watcher boots worst then angelic boots for mages? this is right?

[languid fjord]

No longer increases attack speed? Lol that was the 1 simple change that should have been there from the beginning instead of doing all this other crazy stuff... Sometimes the most simple solution is the best solution.. was that not the whole point of the spell? It's basically just for fury now? Idk started off well, going downhill

[finite lance]

#1112345846839787631 message

[hardy rune]

UH's healing percentage should be based on Kina's maximum health, so the Perseverance attribute would have a higher converter.

[finite lance]

Sounds like a worth to think about idea to me

[runic prairie]

With the current state of the Bloodlust Stance, it feels really good. Not too strong at all, but also noticably stronger weapon damage with a 2h weapon.

[valid dew]

Knights bloodlust has cool sprite when u use it, perhaps some dope sprite can be made for archer spell aswell

[small tapir]

we'll see how it goes on real servers, with recent changes it seems like knights wont be soloing corruptors anymore so thats good. I wish this fury meter was integral part of knight's kit no matter if he uses 2h or 1h. Maybe thats something for the future 🫡

[hallow trellis]

Knight bloodlust still showing "you have higher resistance" in panel, should be lower resistance, no?

[tawdry ferry]

any way to get items on test server ?

[silver summit]

!rework tp

[languid fjord]

Agreed. Do something for 2h clubs and swords... I wish i would have made a great axe but like I was a club fighter so invested everything to making great mace and attributing etc

[small tapir]

@sinful tangle oh thats another good reason why these useless weapons should be deleted/converted. so people dont get stuck with worse options of the same item that they chose because of the skill they chose when they started the game. No one expected weapons would get merged back in the days. Now people who were club fighters end up with great mace that is weaker version of great axe. That sucks.

[finite lance]

It’s just the same as if I attributed „wrong“ items for my knight. Items that’s probably now more archer-like. Same goes for paladins that put money into attributing HF Armor and so on

[dire whale]

As far as i can tell ice sword thing is better than all the 2h options

[dire whale]

should've counted fist towards pallys since theres no point on a knight to "miss" train fist fighting 😛

[sinful tangle]

Yeah I remember brian mentioning perhaps an exchange for like items. Instead of reducing the overall loot table, just allow for those players that made that decision in the past to exchange for what they want.

Make the exchange cost something low to moderately expensive. That way if you want to try different builds, you can. That way when new content drops if your predictions were wrong, you can fix it.

[static palm]

ah.. something i notice when i played the test server, when fury hits half bar makes a sound effect, i think is too high this sound effect and jumpscares me, if possible turn it down just a little and would be just fine@finite thistle

[robust cave]

@finite thistle why change elemental weapon?? ended them

I'm hitting less than the current damage formula to improve the ek

[hardy rune]

@finite thistle consider it

[outer gulch]

hell no
you want both 8k hp and UH healing % of that?xD

[sinful tangle]

That would be the tradeoff for not picking axe right?

[hardy rune]

no, I want life, in addition to the level, to be used as a base in the healing formula, so the Perseverance attribute will have a greater effect on the warrior's hunt

[outer gulch]

it is already great attribute

[hardy rune]

a normal, maybe even useless attribute

[sinful tangle]

Explain that to @quasi berry

[real wing]

@finite thistle you have to fully attribute an item to get the full dex/stre/int even if you are the appropriate level for it?

[quasi berry]

percentage based healing becomes a great with perseverance its free gold

[finite thistle]

Test server STR = 40 (property) 0 (attribute).
After test server = 20 (property) 20 (attribute).
Both of them will scale with level.

[hardy rune]

because a knight doesn't care about leaving life full to have an effective hunt, it's not like a paladin who waits for life to drop to the maximum and then use vita to fill the maximum.

[sinful tangle]

perseverence is an attribute.

[hard night]

I dont think Chaos Weapons should be using the same mechanic as elemental weapons that drop off regular mobs. The tradeoff with the dmg you take and that it can only proc over 80% health is a worthwhile tradeoff now, before it was just straight up bad. I think its more than fair that this weapon is better, its level 520 afterall.

[real wing]

so a level 90 ek that uses a dragon lance which is the appropriate level for it will only gain 3.5 strength unless he full attribute it which will cost him on average 750k at that level to do so... which is a lot of money for a level 90 ek to have and then when he upgrade to another axe which matches his level he will have to then fully attribute it to get the full benefits? that sounds like a fair way to play?

[sinful tangle]

This is the reason I don't want to shrink the alternative weapon options.
Doing so would force a meta track and make those weapons more expensive on the whole.

[quasi berry]

this is why attributes was invented it wasn't for you to have a better gameplay it was to remove gold from servers

[sinful tangle]

lol what the fuck

[quasi berry]

can you give me an example where spending 10kk on 1 item is ever better for your character then spending 10kk on runes and going to exp?

[sinful tangle]

do you even understand the point im making or are you just being emotional about words

[quasi berry]

all i see is you complaining because for some reason you expect Medivia to be easy, with little grind when this game is for autistic people

[sinful tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/hysterical-laughter-laughing-gif-25735842

[real wing]

is it grinding when you can sell medivia coins to max any weapon you want? 🤔

[sinful tangle]

thank you bro I really needed that 😆

[quasi berry]

the items still need to come from somewhere, HFH and patched boots etc dosent come from medivia shop 😉

[quasi berry]

this kind of comment is also why weapons are locked behind faction completion

[real wing]

no one mentioned grinding for the items the we're talking about getting the max benefit from it requires a huge gold sink even if you're at the correct level

[sinful tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/woody-woody-toy-story-sora-kh3-kh-gif-27223516
🤣

[robust cave]

ended the hailstorm, undo it plz

[halcyon minnow]

reading all your feedbacks, comments and thoughts i just realize this chat needs a bit of Iryont style to get moderated
end of statement 🫡

[real wing]

https://tenor.com/view/worriedface-gif-4425173

[marsh tinsel]

So far Ive been reading since test server opened, all these changes seems to be balanced for higher players 300+ what's with the new players, thats where most profit comes from

[finite thistle]

Where did you pull that 750k from? It's 100% chance with 150k crystal. Come on...

[small tapir]

from wiki he got it

[finite thistle]

You need old Vast Grip attribute to gain the Strength bonus, not all of them.

[quasi berry]

isn't there possibility you get vast grip last?

[rain berry]

You can't choose to get only vast grip tho

[sinful tangle]

lol

[small tapir]

I mean he got a strong point there, since you are forcing us to change our equipment so frequently, no one will be able to afford attributing. Even now barely anyone bothers attributing anything other than top tier items.

[rain berry]

Attributing has always been gambling and shouldn't be accounted as a given when balancing stuff

[sinful tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/bingo-gary-oldman-professional-leon-gif-25752658

[halcyon minnow]

omg Wiggy is on Brian mode, here comes the wall of text

[small tapir]

attributing is really not synergizing well with this entire item rework. The longer I play this game the more I realize attributes should've been temporary kinda like real tibia has it where you activate attributes on specific equipment for certain amount of time. That would allow us to pay x amount of cash to attribute virulent set for 10h and then go hunt venerators. Then you can attribute umbral set to hunt aividem. Then you can attribute holy set to go church. Currently its not worth attributing majority of items because it's too big investment for benefits that this gives and also later on its very hard to sell those items for the prices you originally paid or rather its impossible. This makes sets like virulent underused.

[halcyon minnow]

w t f ? u can do that on TIbia? omg what a cringe game

[naive shale]

Just specializes equipment even more. Be it a high str item without any defensive stats (res/vit), a speed focused one (like white dress/patched boots), a high resistance low str equipment, etc.

[marsh tinsel]

10kk in runes is a lot Ive seem solo many low levels with full atts complaining, but the truths that attributing is gambling man same as if You invest into something and that something deppreciates for X reason, can perfectly use that money to thrive and gain lots of level instead

[real wing]

It’s not 100% to get that attribute though you could get something else… like crit or berserk what if vast grip is the last att you get?? And also what about weapon that do not have vast grip as an att like demonic axe? Or other armor slots?

[rain berry]

At least allow us to choose the atts we are trying for, it's really annoying when you spend several large crystals and only get the worse att even with it having lower chance than some of the better ones (and please drop situational and mostly useless stuff like buff on a specific creature and lean on knight armor an weapons)

[quasi berry]

destroys the point in attributes being a gold sink if you can just choose for the best ones and ignore the ones you think are undesirable

[quartz pendant]

yea lean for knights is ridiculous

[rain berry]

That's the point, if it's just a gold sink, it shouldn't be accounted as something you must have when balancing the game

[lucid light]

Great, now we lost elemental weapons damage too. Thanks a lot @small tapir . I'm sure you are EK main, right? Since devs only listen to you.

[sinful tangle]

Its because hes a ~~youtuber... ~~ streamer online beggar

[small tapir]

yes sorry for mentioning that some low tier weapon deals more damage than chaos axe

[rain berry]

Elemental weapons were stupid and should be nerfed, I just hope axes can replace it since they're meant to be the offensive choice for knights

[runic prairie]

Fairly certain you don't choose a 2h sword to be defensive

[vagrant kayak]

"bUt it hAS bLOck"

[vagrant kayak]

Axes are the weapon of choice for damage. Berserk sees a massive buff this patch, get on berserk and check melee and incurso damage. And crit damage. Elemental swords are just good situational, flaming greatsword at like 5 spawns total in the game.. it's right that they nerfed hailstorm, that shit just powned every spawn but bro dont overexagerate

[rain berry]

Nope, clubs are for the defensive reasons, swords are balanced 👍

[orchid tulip]

Parry_sword can be a better option than Pers_club in certain situations

[runic prairie]

For 1h weapons yes, but for 2h weapons I'd choose perseverance over parry any day of the week. When using a 2h, perseverance also increases club fighting by 10% for 10seconds in addition to the hp increase for 60seconds

[hard night]

4 attributes at 150k each is 600k in my book, and one is 50% chance, what am I missing? 😮

[vagrant kayak]

Great Mace and Mithril Hammer both have like 8% chance to increase skills by 10%, they are super strong. Swords got the elemental thing going and Axe dominates consistant physical damage. Imho all three weapon types have their right for existance atm

[robust cave]

@finite thistle

I think change chaos itens for elemental damage of chaos its better than nerf others elemental weapons

[vagrant kayak]

great weapons are stupidly powerful for how easy they are to get and they have no quest requirement or anything, no way they need buff

[naive shale]

They really are? Thought mining was a problem since there are a lot of campers in demanded ore’s veins

[vagrant kayak]

a lvl 80 can farm helio at titans and u can also buy it from other players. u need a team of four lvl 450+s to camp chaos hydra and the weapons are incredibly rare.

[orchid tulip]

You don't even have to mine.. just farm cash and buy

Perhaps you can make more money and buy ores out than going after them all around the map, take the easy ones and buy the rest from nerds camping it

[small tapir]

forging great weapons isnt hard, its time consuming. It's reflected in their price of around 9000 medivia coins on legacy as an example.

[robust cave]

I think those who complain about elemental weapons are because they don't have them, there's nothing to change

[naive shale]

How much a Chaos Axe goes for in Legacy’s market?

[vagrant kayak]

has there even one been looted yet on legacy? lol

[runic prairie]

not on legacy, only one in one of the 3x worlds

[finite thistle]

Okay, test server can't be open forever. Do you have any important feedback to share? I assume that the changes do satisfy you, unless I forgot to change something.

[cobalt imp]

I think overall the changes are fine, just need to see what to do in the future about 2h club and swords to not make them useless

[abstract blaze]

@finite thistle when changes will come?

[naive shale]

Thanks guys, didn’t even know about that. I’ve erased my post since I was biased 🫡

[finite thistle]

In up to few days.

[outer gulch]

Mephitic Armor should have more strength than Umbral Platemail.

[abstract blaze]

before the new server?

[finite thistle]

Most likely.

[stone blaze]

No EQ: Melee damage (strength: 26): 277->651 (old) => 391-720 (new)
full(umbral helmet, umbral platemail, angelic legs, umbral boots):
Melee damage (strength: 152): 277->665 (old) => 432-789 (new)

looks like damage not change to much with strength

[vagrant kayak]

Knights feel good with 2000ms atk speed during spell now, thanks for listening to us Eldrin, think we found good compromise here!

[trail cedar]

I havent been on test lately, but is there a way to see your current strength somewhere?

[robust cave]

cancel this hailstorm change, ridiculous that

[upper rapids]

damn we should have a temporary changelog so we can keep track of the changes. I didnt login since yday and now i dunno whats changed to test properly

[robust cave]

everyone can use all weapons now, if it's good, go back... elemental weapon the advantage was the minimum damage.. thing that has already been changed, there is no advantage in using them now... physical damage weapons work on all animals practically, the ice one does not

[stone blaze]

i would work on hailstorm balance, looks like ice dmg is to low now. 25% ice/75% phis doesnt looks good. Ice dmg should depends more by mele fighting

[outer gulch]

Yes it would be cool if Eldrin could prepare final changelog for now so we can check it before final patch

[robust cave]

actually i think it would be cooler to have other elemental weapons, no need for nerfs

[rose swan]

*add strength to chaos shield
*fix critical strike to follow current formula
*fix crushing blow to follow current formula

[stone blaze]

*add strength to flaming eagis, no need to be much, like 5-7 should be better then nothing

[upper rapids]

strength should be added to shields or intelligence should be removed from shields for mages

[robust cave]

like chaos weapons, meteorites weapons maybe converted chaos damage, energy damage

[stone blaze]

@finite thistle can we see the formula how strength affects hits?

it looks like now hit depends by melee by 90% and only 10% by strength

[finite thistle]

I will soon add strength to most shields.

[robust cave]

Undo the hailstorm nerf, it's really bad!

[finite thistle]

Not happening.

[last pier]

Tweak starting skills for archers / knights so they would be able to at least hurt rats and snakes with starting weapon 🫡

[robust cave]

it's happening because I'm hitting very little ice, without conditions

[rose swan]

ALSO how items with level requirements gonna work in dungeons???

[finite thistle]

It's scaled with synced level.

[upper rapids]

what happend to hailstorm

[marsh tinsel]

Yes lol

[cerulean holly]

it was to op so eldrin made it unop

[robust cave]

nerfed to 25% elemental damage

[native wharf]

Hi Eldrin, would it be possible to display a final summary of all the confirmed changes and the ones which may be adjusted?

[vagrant kayak]

it was op, now it is just fine

[upper rapids]

well it was op yea

[rain berry]

I think those who complain about elemental weapons are because they have them, there's nothing to undo

[marsh tinsel]

Dude has 5 stacking in his Depot waiting to be sold

[robust cave]

why have elemental weapons want to turn into physical damage weapons? lol, then do the following, put berserker on it, criticize, something like that because there was only ek of ax complaining but hitting 1k even before the new formulas

[finite thistle]

I added strength to shields.

[grim flint]

I tested few mobs as 400 knight. 2s for 2h is good, but dmg dealt isn't so op as i heard. I soloed azzure mercenary but it took a while and costed ton of uhs. Imo dmg dealt could be a little little higher. Gauge regeneration is tripled now?

[upper rapids]

does it require a restart?

[somber pagoda]

How does the strengh works when we are full def or full atk?

[vagrant kayak]

i think the dmg rn is good as it is. i had significantly higher xp/h at normal knight grinding spots like frosts, hydra, etc, so the spell achieves what i hoped for, we get some better xp/h solo and dont fall as hard behind in the midlvl range

[noble torrent]

I think angelic platemail should be better than hfa. I can solo ud but sentinel would be rly hard

[rain berry]

Full attack you deal full dmg, full def you deal half dmg, strength won't change that

[valid turret]

but you can also get it from Bishop I think

[vagrant kayak]

yeh u can get it for semi afk'ing on a sunday evening for 15 minutes 😄

[noble torrent]

I do t know anyone who got it from reward xP

[valid turret]

we still need lots of experiments

I just soloed corruptor on lvl 433 with set that Its not an absurd to get

[vagrant kayak]

with new spell? i just heard from a 480 ek who got headshot by a corrupter while on spell, so there is that

[valid turret]

ye with new spell.
gonna try one handed now

ofc there are scary moments, and I was only able to do it cause on test server I have 20ms, something that on my server (destiny) I dont have

but my main problem is I felt weaker on some hunts/creatures and than the shock of the corruptor kill

[icy axle]

I’m trying to keep up with all these messages. Unfortunately I am away. Can you please explain to me how hunting as a knight is “free” in your eyes? Are uhs free? What about explos? Manas? Meals are definitely not free because of the cooking nerf… Is equipment free? What about attributing? How about dedicating the 15 minute/30 minute timer to come to the pc to keep training because we don’t have the pay to win option for our ml as mages do? Have you considered how difficult it is to mine a weapon without swiping, or how many monsters and bosses you must farm to get actual equipment worth using that we have to convince shooters to dedicate time for? To sum it up and stop my rant, I genuinely would love to see how my ek deals free damage.

[vagrant kayak]

get online and test the current version of melee dmg and the new spell. you will feel significant buffs, it's just not as hilariously broken as yesterday. it feels right now. some more melee, some less rune dmg, better xp/h solo, it's good really, no need to rant

[robust cave]

How many people own the hailstorm? it's hard to get and people are criticizing because they used it on the test server, it ended up being a good weapon

[vagrant kayak]

it is a drop by a noob creature, in the few months it exists, there have been dozens of drops on all servers and it was effectively better than anything else out there which is much harder to loot or mine and much rarer as well. the nerf was completly justified, get over it, it's still good.

[valid turret]

ye one handed kill worked too, more waste because of manas but way less scary

[runic nova]

Were you using the new spell ?

[valid turret]

on one handed no, on two handed ye

[robust cave]

but 25% is an 50% nerf lol

[winter tinsel]

Nerfing hailstorm by 50% ice damage is absurd. The only reason to use a two-handed sword is because of the ice damage. Everyone will use two handed axe

[robust cave]

that's exactly it!
Why use it if you can have crit, berserker/perseverance?

[rain berry]

Gotta love ppl getting mad cause their overpriced mid lvl weapon is getting nerfed

[robust cave]

I want to see if you take the critic out of the axes hahaha

[vagrant kayak]

for one, it also has berserk, then it still is weapon of choice for energy elementals and any mob with high armor. it is a situational weapon now, no do it all and do it better than everyone else mary sue item, just as it should be

[robust cave]

Didn't you understand that everyone can use it now?

or do you not have one? 😄

really do not have conditions to recover the numbers of this big nerf?
@finite thistle

[glacial cedar]

About the new spell, l like the ideia of the fury bar gives you an free spell during the hunt, however it should be buffed so knights can use it more frequently. I basically dont use attack spells at all since l started playing as a kina (1 - 140lv) due the cost of mana pots.

[vagrant kayak]

you can use it plenty in the right spots, it is situational but places where creatures deal high physical, you will have it up every few minutes

[languid fjord]

This free damage thing is such a small minded argument. Lol. Get over it. Free in the sense we don't have to pay for ammo ok. But we pay for it because we stand right next to every creature and take the full damage that every one does the entire hunt. Other VOCs when playing right take minimum melee damage. The weapons are extremely expensive or hard to get and cost a lot of money to attribute. I guess Just raise the cost of uhs to like 3500 for the cryers, but let knights have enough damage to do the damn content effectively...
we are already gonna use more uhs with this spell, I was spamming them like crazy... But I'd rather pay a little bit more and be able to play the game without such a handicap. Either way, still have to use runes to stack with melee so nothing is free... just a portion of our damage doesn't cost and which we pay for in other ways.

[sinful tangle]

They know joe. They're just being cucks by using that argument lol

[glacial cedar]

which means that high levels can benefit more from the fury bar

l just think kiva should use more frenquently their own attack spells than using attack runes like explo/hmm/gfb

is quite funny to see knights hunting with gfp haha

[sinful tangle]

I agree

[hearty thistle]

Elemental damage is bullshit. If community get used to only use weapons with elemental damage like in Tibia will be a mess to fix it

[sinful tangle]

How are you liking the test server so far?

I remember you had some.. concerns.

[robust cave]

And the hailstorm is broken? XDD

[sinful tangle]

casters in here running psyops

[naive shale]

"Mr Herbert, according to my calculations and vast medivia knowledge, your argument isnt solid. It takes a lot of time, effort and money to get that kind of damage in a sorcerer. Also, our HP is the lowest from all vocations and our single target got nerfed after changes. Eks hitting 1k in a single target for free is too umbalanced, they can profit a lot".

🤓 

👉 👈

[upper skiff]

nothing stopping you from playing sorc yourself

[sinful tangle]

seems like people just dont want whatever they put a years+ worth of time into to become weaker. pathetic

[hardy crane]

Should not agavan helmet have 1% physical resistance as propriety? As the agavan armor, legs and boots has

[icy axle]

I would like to suggest that mages are too over powered due to them being able to ue and deal this tremendous amount of damage for free. My argument is that if you cast a ue then go fish and eat you can technically regain your mana back and cast it again at zero cost other than the price of your fishing rod.

See how this is a double standard?

[robust cave]

big f 😄

[languid fjord]

Ya and pallies can make ammunition and mages can make burst + sds all eating food and chilling. Free damage.

[lucid light]

I'm not wiggy, but I will try one last appeal to Eldrin: make venom weapons 25% poison elemental too. Nobody will use them otherwise. Thanks bye.

[keen plaza]

I've been saving money since I started playing to buy a Hailstorm, but now with this nerf, I won't bother anymore since I'll have a huge variety of weapons, especially maces and axes with so many attributes, because in my opinion, they ruined the weapon.

[robust cave]

that's what i've been talking about all day, but everything is crying... except 5k damage ultimate explosion 😄

[icy axle]

I don't know what changes they have done to it but having 50% armor penetration on a weapon is really over powered for an item you just loot like that. Anyone saying otherwise 100% owns one, however, I think chaos weapons should deal chaos damage considering how hard and rare they are

[robust cave]

I agree that chaos weapons do need to have damage converted from chaos, but there is no need to nerf others but buff chaos

just like the hellforged helmet is an excellent helmet, final tier and drops from a ridiculous monster with 3k life =d, so I don't think this should be used as an excuse to nerf an item that is said to be easy and there aren't that many

however demonic ax worth 50mc is stronger than hailstorm after the nerf

[icy axle]

It's actually really silly that the best 2 hander you can get aside from chaos weapons are from that monster lol the ice weapon 100% needed a nerf idk how you can argue that

[robust cave]

and how can that be greater than gaining 10% health and 10% skills, or 50% critical damage? just because of 50% elemental damage? that's what's good about her and they want to take it away

[zenith ivy]

Sure, 4% chance to deal critical damage is better than 50% ice damage every fucking single hit

Yesterday I was killing chimeras with less turns than with great axe

[vagrant kayak]

can u stop already? u make no valid point at all. it was obviously op and was rightfully nerfed

[grim flint]

Where is this hailstorm looted from?

[vagrant kayak]

phoenix. and it outdamages all other, much harder accessable items by large margin lol

[grim flint]

If gauge was generated by taking all dmg, not only physical it would be cherry on top. Dont you think 25% more dmg taken is bit too much? Yesterday i was spaming uhs like crazy when soloing some contents

[finite lance]

Same, will get into cap problems cause of carrying UHs 😂

[coral breach]

wait what did i miss?

[grim flint]

It was basically uh every turn and hard to use explo between. Im speaking about azures which druid can solo at lvl 200? And im 400

[static palm]

Is fist going to add up to anything? I mean is it worth training it before merge?

[upper ridge]

heres my stats on eternum so you get an idea

[grim flint]

Are you guys satisfied with current hits? Only i feel i hit more less the same with sword but less from runes as on live server?

[frosty kelp]

what weapon you using ?

[grim flint]

Tested primo sword+ shield and explo and executioners sword + new spell

[silver snow]

how to get to the test server? checking test server in the client, it won't let me in

[vagrant kayak]

It is slight buff, barely noticable melee and rune dmg will be worse if you dont have best possible eq for your lvl, so it is +-0. The only noticable buff is 2000ms attack speed during spell. The 25% extra damage intake are fine imo, fury generation too. This is no massive buff rn but it is noticable at midlvl content and thats where knights needed help. I am fine if they ship this live.

[raven surge]

Love the changes as they are now @finite thistle

[finite lance]

I actually had a hope to be less dependent on other vocations when it comes to factions with this balancing idea. What I do hardly understand is the fact, that, @finite thistle, when you first changed the damage formular for knights you seem to have it done with the intention of buffing EKs solo gameplay. So I expect you thought they somewhat needed a buff. Then when endgame players could solo everything it was too much. I can totally understand this wasn’t your intention, it would’ve broken the game. For low- to mid levels it felt abit too good but not far too OP. Yet it seems you changed your mind completely and nerfed knights a lot compared to your first thought, not just in small steps. I mean, when checking paladins changes there’s also a super high skilled Pala with endgame eq doing shitload of dmg, yet no nerfs, more like taking away para stance etc. I just don’t understand how, when it comes to knights, super high lvls with endgame eq are (rightfully) taken into consideration while it doesn’t seem to be like that with paladins. I might be mistaken, but that’s how I feel.

[frosty kelp]

i feel kind of the same, esp with the new spell for pallys now needing party and shared will easily just be 2 pallys in a party (duo hunt) for more dmg and more xp/h

[finite lance]

Idk, maybe change something with monster armor or something to reduce the possibility of soloing endgame content with EKs or something. If that’s an idea..

[frosty kelp]

How about this for a IDEA. all vocations apart from knight have another form of gold costing dmg increase, how about maybe making a oil for our weapons to increase dmg but at a cost for example 100gp for 30 mins ?

[finite lance]

Just check out this for example: #1112323809886875690 message

How does a knight compete to this dmg, doubt it’s possible to even get close to this, or am I wrong? Im not a high level so I don’t know.

[grim flint]

Yea oil seems good. But no time plz, better make u can use it certain amount of times for example 100. Adjust price and power properly and it will be nice buff. For example hits stronger 30%

[frosty kelp]

yeah i like the idea of usage instead of time. 30% tho not 100% on maybe too much for a buff

[finite lance]

Yea that’s something I noticed too. Any other vocation can scale their dmg output by just spending more money, while I feel I’m really limited in doing so.

[lofty saddle]

You can with incurso.

[vagrant kayak]

you can buy big manas and incurso stuff, big waste big xp. its exactly what highlvl knights do rn and its perfectly fine, 2.5-2.8kk xp/h

[frosty kelp]

plus its another gold sink for knights

[frosty kelp]

mages can buy big manas and ue, but still have small explos

[vagrant kayak]

mages have 1/3 of knights hp stop these idiotic comparisons lol

[winter owl]

Yea but if we speak only middle-high lvl beacuse low-middle like 200, no respawn for that. all spawn (almost) is old and on resp you must waiting like 3-5min

[vagrant kayak]

lvl 200s are massively buffed with this patch, xp/h at frosts went up by more than 200k/h, what else do u want? sd?

[finite lance]

Okay, but that will be a lot less cost efficient than for example UEing/Waving groups /SDing monsters, or not? Plus we need to go all in close combat, so frequently UHing, means less possibility to pump manas or cast incurso.

[winter owl]

we are speaking about big manas and incurso. i just said no respawn is for that. And second think i never said its not buff for ek 200 but still i guess this game no needed balance classes but balance respawn. Beacuse repawn like red wyvern/ hydras abukir was good in 2018

[frosty kelp]

with mana shield they can have alot more hp. also with the amount of dmg ue does compared

[finite lance]

That’s the thing, we can’t just take super high lvl knights into consideration. It might work for them, no idea. But I feel totally broken as 150 ek if I compare my abilities to a 150 Paladin or mage.

[vagrant kayak]

it may seem this way but if you look at the final result, xp/h, knights are just fine on highlvl and now, with this spell and fast 2h atk speed, lowlvls are fine too. this patch is honestly big buff for lowlvl and highlvls stay same which is good because they are in good spot

[halcyon minnow]

are u kidding right?

[finite lance]

I can’t test it, just saying paladins and mages are having an easy time to outperform me when it comes to exping. Maybe it should be like that, no idea. Sometimes the reason we‘re doing „free dmg“ is mentioned. Which has some truth in, but on the other hand knights have to invest a lot in eq and attributing to be able to get up their exp.

[lofty saddle]

Sir, you are playing on 3x loot am i right?
That is the problem and reason u are getting outperformed.

[frosty kelp]

no but it came out wrong, i dont mean knights need the same dmg as ue that is silly, the point i was trying to get across (which i failed at) is more on the fact that spamming big manas to do spells all vocs can do (apart from pally) but small explos and new ammo for pallys is a gold dmg increase which knights do not have

[finite lance]

I do, but does that mean the game shouldn’t be balanced?

[vagrant kayak]

it is balanced around regular servers, you chose a for fun servers, so people do for fun stuff on mages and sd everything, ofcourse a knight cant keep up if sds are unlimited, high rate servers take an important factor - limited supplies - out of the game.

[halcyon minnow]

"with mana shield they can have alot more hp." focus in this part, u really think we have more HP than u because we have more mana?

[finite lance]

Few messages up you said something different, now you agree knights can’t keep up with mages or palas. I think it’d be nothing but fair for knights to atleast cole close to other vocations abilities when it comes to exping or doing factions.

[halcyon minnow]

@frosty kelp lemme tell u smth, don't feel ofended pls... u can use 8-9 UHs in avg during 10 seconds while i can use just 1 BMF, u can refill your HP 8-9 times in 10 seconds while i can get max 480 mana (in the best case) in the same ammount of time so u still think i have more HP than u?

[frosty kelp]

no i understand i wasnt looking at it from that view but i get it now

[halcyon minnow]

nice, that's the idea bro... keep bringing feedback, DEVs really needs all opinions 🍻

[last pier]

Can we get new dmg formula please? ❤️ it seems to be quite similar to archers but it would save some time to get one instead of trying different values 🐸

[orchid tulip]

You should have a graphporn channel just to you post your things

[noble torrent]

Why cant we have this spell attack speed boost on 1h weapons too? I think it would be nice situational buff

[finite lance]

Asked that before too 👍🏻

But bloodlust is „just“ giving gouge, not more dmg in general, right?

[noble torrent]

When using 2h weapons It increases attack speed and dmg taken also more fury regen if nothing got changed. But I guess 1h weapons need that kind of buff too would be cool hunting groups of 2 mobs.

[quasi berry]

You want 1h to attack every 1 second?... Even think about how this effects training and pvp? If anything 1h should lose dmg and get resist not more damage that role is filled by 2h

[robust cave]

I'm going to keep crying because I had a rp lvl 150 hitting 1.5k combo bolt+sd but the hailstorm that is broken hahaha, at least if you buy it in the store I believe this is easier than dropping it from phoenix

[split vessel]

Isnt poit of this make knights again knights , cause since some point we are like mages spaming explos uhs gfbs , and melee hits arent so importqnt as rune dmg

[finite lance]

Nono, I wouldn’t want atk speed buffed with 1-handed. That’d probably be OP. Just the gouge part and probably abit more gouge regen as we won’t get as much dmg wearing a shield. In that way we would get some „free attacks“, nothing else.

[split vessel]

Or maybe add spell when u have fullfury it rapidly increase ur hp regen for some time ?

Or spell that increase ur dmg with weapon for some time , same for shielding

Its only 1 exori , make it more variable ?

[last pier]

Dual wielding when?

[split vessel]

Let players choose what he wanna do heal or do more dmg or be more tankier idk , just idea

[vagrant kayak]

50% atk speed buff on 1h means 15 attacks in 20s instead of 10, so one attack every 1,33s, 1s would be 100% increase. edit: not saying i am all ears for it,,just pointing out the math

[quasi berry]

Anything below 2s breaks the game.

[finite lance]

Im completely with you. That’s why I said this: #1112345846839787631 message

[noble torrent]

We have now paladin attribute that hits faster than 2s and sheol reward weapon that has 9% shift striker or even more if u pick sword. This is already live. And nothing seems broken

[quasi berry]

your comparing % attribute to 100% uptime? and the sheol weapon is like 450-500 level item

[abstract blaze]

and you have to finish demonic faction to use it, its not that easy

[noble torrent]

On paladins it's easy. Just triangle bow and u can proc 3 hits on turn

[keen plaza]

Where is my Vast Grip? Why is it only now under the "Properties" of the item? I have spent a lot of money to acquire this attribute on my weapon. You can't destroy the market for full items by doing this, so make half of the strength, intelligence, and dexterity as properties and the other half as attributes. Alternatively, provide a bonus for those who already have it. It won't make any sense for a mage, for example, to enchant any item if what they need the most already comes with the armor. Before, they used to spend a lot of money to obtain the ML, so you're delivering a major blow to the poor people like me who have to beg for painites to enchant and have something decent. Have no Sense EXCLUDE one of the bests atts from this weapon, i can have plus melee fighting now? ...

[quasi berry]

its gonna be reworked into strength, you can prob expect like 11 str on item and 12 from attribute

[keen plaza]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Ty Icsea, now its pretty good!

What will happen to the rings? Will they all become Melee Ring?

[meager nimbus]

#1112345846839787631 message

[glacial cedar]

Is there any info about future in-game market ?

[robust cave]

Can UP little elemental damage maybe 35%? 25% is a big nerf

[grim flint]

Imo gauge should be generated by all attack received, not only melee. 2h was always the best option against mobs dealing small melee and big aoe dmg example: dl, arcanist, tar priest, warlock, priest of life, ancient watcher, frostmaiden etc

[finite lance]

@finite thistle Thoughts on this idea?

[sage vapor]

I just got a question. Lets say im lvl 200 and i use equipment wich is for my level range ~ 200, in that case i get all the bonuses/power from the item. And now what does happen when i use Higher tier equipment like 400+ on my 200lvl ? Do i get the same bonuses/power as from the 200lvl equipment ? or less ? or more ?

[lofty saddle]

Is it possible to keep rage points even after u deactivate the spell? Let's say 10 minutes after last rage point gained.

[marsh tinsel]

if you use a 400 gear and u are level 200 u wont get the full stats/bonuses. Lets say the bonus its + 50 mana.
So if you are around level 200 you wil get like +20 mana aprroximately instead

[sage vapor]

My question is simple. To obtain the best power for my character avaible on certain level, do i need to have equipment wich is exactly for my level, or can i also use higher tier equipment, but still gain same strength/power wich would give me the equipment for my exact lvl. I hope you can understand what i mean

[marsh tinsel]

equipment for your level to obtain full power from the item

you can also use higher tier equipment, but the bonuses will have to be much higher than your low tier gear in order to get the same bonuses

[sage vapor]

So that means either i get high end stuff or i have to buy everytime new equipment when i reach new levels ?

[quasi berry]

you can still get high end items they just have a higher celing but the strength would be the same over all the items aslong as you hit the floor

if you get 9 str on dsm you will get 9 str on HFA and Umbral etc

[marsh tinsel]

Exactly, i guess you should always aim for higher tier equipment while you are leveling up. so i would search ffor equipment for level 300 if i am 200. in that case i have 100 levels to forget about it and level up

[abstract blaze]

@finite thistle please use our skillbar to show us our stats like strenght, dex, int

[sage vapor]

Devs just have to make sure , like you said, that higher equipment should give the same strength power like the actuall level equipment. BUT NOT LESS ! Idk how the situation is right now, just saying

[quasi berry]

i can show you in a screenshot

see how i am only allowed to use 10 STR because of my level

[sage vapor]

Alright thats good. Just wanted to make sure, devs thought about it.

[upper skiff]

@finite thistle i have some feedback regarding some items... those virulent armors that can be upgraded with hellstone ores are kinda... not ideal. They are for a mid-upper mid lvl which is great to start moving away from hellforged items, however you need to complete sheol faction in order to CRAFT them from the npc. Which seems extremely redundant seeing as EKs wont be in the intended lvl range for those items anymore in order to complete sheol quest. Would you mind considering removing quest completion to craft those items?

Maybe lock them behind a much earlier sheol mission, like ashlords or something?

Some other items like Arcane Tunic are only obtainable currently from killing seal bosses and are item lvl 300-400. Which isn't an issue except that you have to complete all sheol tasks in order to gain access to the seals making those items obsolete as well

[lucid light]

It is lower than 25% from what Eldrin said

[hard night]

So Great Axe had 33/34 Strength for me, while chaos also yielded 33 out of his 42 strength. Im not sure 100%, but i think if you use higher gear than you need, it scales to exactly what your leveled gear would have, at least from that 1 example I would assume that.

[vagrant kayak]

apart from a few very tiny differences of +-1 strength, that is exactly how it is

[icy axle]

Some items definitely need to be relooked at. Hellforged legs are insanely easy to get and typically flood servers pretty fast compared to watcher legs, yet I deal more damage using hellforged than watcher and watcher used to have +2 skills (both are fully attributed).

Also, shields seem to be missing strength.

[lucid light]

Does skills actually matter with the new (now nerfed) damage formula? Or strength is all that matters? Can anyone confirm that?

[vagrant kayak]

skills matter more than before. items that give skills like rings or meals make big difference. my max hit increases by 30 on live server and by 50 on test, so it is an 60% increase of skill importance in my current skill range

[robust cave]

Lol, this item die

[lucid light]

Really? Because making skills (and eq) matter more on damage was the original idea shared by Eldrin himself. But it seems that the latest nerf shifted the damage almost entirely to strength (there are people reporting almost no difference from live servers). Sorry to doubt you, but I've read the entire post and you seem very biased anti-EK. Would be great if @finite thistle could share the actual formula. Many of you guys have an top lvl top EQ mentality, but I'm SURE that is not the majory of the player base.

[finite thistle]

Melee Damage:```
max = 25 + (attackSkill ^ 2) / 1550 * attackValue / attackFactor
min = (playerLevel / 2) + (max * 0.15)

min = min + strength * 0.30
max = max + strength * 0.35```
Spellpower:

base = (level * 1.30) + (magLevel^(7/5) * magLevelMult)
bonus = strength * 1.2

Attack factors:

offensive = 1.0
balanced = 1.2
defensive = 2.0

Change playerLevel / 2 to playerLevel / 4 if you are using a one handed weapon.

[lucid light]

attackvalue = weapon atk? What is attackFactor please?

[static palm]

I still confused about rings and what going to happen to then like ring of the sky for exemple

[obtuse shard]

Stance
The 3 buttons next to your equipment to go offensive / balanced / defensive

[lucid light]

With this formula skills definitely matter more, but like... considering 114 skill and weapon of 82, the max dmg without str is 692. I'm pretty sure I already hit harder than this on live servers. I will do some testing in lunch time and confirm this.

[vagrant kayak]

maybe stop talking so much and log on testserver instead

[last pier]

Why does EK have 1550 while archer have 1600?
According to the time needed to reach skill 40 for pally (40^2=1600) it should be 38^2=1444 for EK (same time needed), what's more if we count time for high skills like 130 for example it will take EK ~1,67 times more time to get such skill, so "fair" value would be ~958.
Yeah, I know it would be too OP, but what's my point: why does skilling archers matters more than skilling EK?
Wouldn't be better to make skilling worth the same for both EK and archers? It seems pretty reasonable imo and max dmg could be balanced by attack values of archer weapons (mostly) and ammo (maybe too)

[vagrant kayak]

115 skill. No strength EQ except weapon (unavoidable)

18:34 Melee damage (strength: 23): 116->653 (old) => 229-712 (new)
Higher max hit, higher min hit, avg dmg up by like 20%. Stop crying. Skills matter more, it's a good buff for high skill.

[grim flint]

Test server showed something what i like - dish and melee ring matters! I put ring on and max dmg jumped up by 51

[vagrant kayak]

told u

[naive shale]

My bad, I just logged into my ek and it got buffed in both min and max damage (used from fire axe to giant axe)

[lucid light]

I don't even talk that much dude. You advocate for knight nerf a lot more 🤣 Unfortunately I'm locked out of TS, I can only follow the discussion here. But I'm reading everything.

[vagrant kayak]

should be bannable to nonstop complain about changes while admittedly not even having tested them

[sinful tangle]

lol

[finite lance]

Is the 25% more dmg we receive when using bloodlust just physical or any kind of dmg?

[noble torrent]

Any

[quaint siren]

i belive blazzing greatsword needs a kind of balance or maybe is supossed to be like this? - Ek 217 - skill 117 = 500 Minum hit max hit 900-850

[vagrant kayak]

it is high damage but very situational as most monster immune to fire, i can name 3 spawns out of the back of my head where its good and i break all of them with exec sword as well. also your numbers seem slightly exagerated, can you copypaste from test?

[robust cave]

I think no need balance, is and Very situational

[quaint siren]

yeah, i mean the formula says (249-770) (took all my Eq off) only sword and melee ring = 120 skill - literality some lvl 380-350 eks where asking me why was i dealing more dmg than them

[robust cave]

And lv 380 item

[marsh tinsel]

Funny how all item owners want to buff specific item, there is so many man, not to mention now u Will be able to use all swords/axes/axes/club available in the Game so many weapons added to your gameplay

[quaint siren]

also hailstorm is working fine, seen 300 minum hit , but blazing sword only 500+ as minum hit

but its true at the same time, blazzing sword is very situational so i guess its fine?

[vagrant kayak]

its good at hydra and a few sheol spawns but 90% of time you will do 0 fire dmg and then its terrible

[steady lodge]

test server off?

[robust cave]

I think hailstorm with 25% elemental is Low, need 35~~

[quaint siren]

Hydras, blue fungi, Nightmares and Ice phoenix respawn are the only ones you can bring fire dmg right?, yeah test server is off

[vagrant kayak]

ice is too op, we already had that back and forth yesterday lol

[quaint siren]

maybe 30 % would be fine.

[finite lance]

Shouldnt it then just be that we receive gouge from any type of damage?

[twin moon]

any other update on bloodlust? I saw that atk speed was removed, however does additional dmg continue?

[eternal mural]

its not removed

[twin moon]

so, does bloodlust has a additional atk spd? i know that slowly caused by 2h weapons doesnt exist

[finite lance]

@finite thistle: Is it intended that Ashlord shield gives me more strength than sota, chaos shield etc?

Same with hf legs, they give more strength than angelic legs

[finite lance]

Im lvl 151 and for me ashlord shield gives more strength than chaos shield or sota

[marsh tinsel]

send pic

[finite thistle]

It is possible and intended, values are rounded down, so sometimes there can be 1 stat difference, especially on items with low bonus stats.

[finite lance]

Possible to round it up instead?Else the eq I worked for is worse than cheap one 😅 Doesn’t really make sence to me.

[marsh tinsel]

So high tier items can give less STR than low tier eq?
This is the case for thet level 151

[finite lance]

Yes, cause of rounding down

[marsh tinsel]

gotcha, then right maybe round it up?

[vagrant kayak]

its only 1 difference because math and if u take a few lvls, its even up again

[finite lance]

If the difference doesn’t matter it shouldn’t be a problem to round it up(?). That way it looks weird

Depending on the whole gear it adds up to some strength points in total 😜

[finite thistle]

Vampiric axe (and weapons) is special in that case, I believe level requirement is set to level 150 at the moment, or even 100. It won't work like that on live servers.

[vagrant kayak]

is it seeing buffs along with the mage legs from quest or?

[finite lance]

Does it mean the vamp axe will be worse for me after test server? Cause I’m using it atm

.. as lvl 150~, forgot to mention it before. Cause I’ve put some effort in it to get it 🫣

[quaint siren]

11:42 Eldrin: it's 2 combats: physical and melee, so it's currently not working properly ////// so it seems like blazzing sword is kind of bugged right now :p

11:41 Eldrin: blazing greatsword, will be changed

[finite lance]

Im experiencing that demonic axe does almost never provide berserk stance to me. So far it said it’s a 5% chance, means roughly every 20th hit. Was something changed with it? Crit hit seems to work atleast sometimes, not every ~ 25th hit tho.

Maybe it was really really bad luck over minutes. Cause now it’s happening in a normal way again.

[obtuse shard]

Made a quick simple sheet for the new formulas so people can see their new damage / spellpower:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19sSpPRjgB99qSrg0UNwLLQlQCyxQq6MQ4IBTvWbkmXI/copy

[blazing moon]

melee fighting skill +1 was removed from mephitic equips?

[finite lance]

Gives strength now instead

[blazing moon]

its the same strenght stat from yesterday ( but yesterday grants me 27 strenght and +1 skil ) now just gives me strengh

[vocal quail]

yea, same happened to the suffering set

[blazing moon]

damm haha it seems no item grants us any skill bonus now

[vocal quail]

added melee fighting was taken off apparently

[finite thistle]

Yes, it's been converted into strength.

[quasi berry]

Eldrin is this correct level 8 knight its impossible to 1 hit rat on 25 skill?

[vocal quail]

to be honest, I feel like skill is the sole factor in having larger increase in dmg. strength is just a little bonus

[icy axle]

How come I deal more damage with hellforged legs that are not even difficult to loot than I do with watcher legs (both fully attributed)?

[finite thistle]

I plan to slightly increase item level of watcher items.

[rose swan]

Something is wrong with min dmg formula

[finite thistle]

It may be possible that damage is not quite the same on very low skills, I will check it out.

[quasi berry]

Thank you

[icy axle]

Can you sum up what the current spell does in game? I heard you changed a lot of things over this past weekend @finite thistle

Last I checked your two handed weapons attack speed dropped to 2 seconds, you recieved 25% increased damage, and you gained fury by receiving physical damage.

Ok I will check later I guess ty

[finite thistle]

Spell's description should now be updated in spellbook.

[outer gulch]

@icy axle can you paste spell description here?

[icy axle]

I can't login atm that's why I was asking 😂

[finite thistle]

enter a state of wild battle frenzy, discarding
your defenses and dedicating yourself
entirely to unleashing a relentless offensive
onslaught.

While the spell is active, you receive 1 Fury
Gauge for every 214 physical damage you
receive when blocking using your
two-handed weapon. Fury Gauge can be
spent to cast Decimate and Berserk spells.

During Bloodlust Stance, damage taken is
increased by 25% and two-handed weapon
attack speed is increased by 50%.

Fury Gauge generation is only active when
using two-handed weapons.

This spell can be toggled off by casting it
again.

This spell requires a premium account.```

[icy axle]

So they are back to 3 second atk speeds and I think you get more fury than when I checked

[finite lance]

It’s back to 3 sec?

[silver summit]

edited

[finite thistle]

Apologies, I reloaded the wrong thing. Now it's updated.

[icy axle]

214 is more fury though than originally released right? I know when I tested it I barely got any fury I feel like it was a lot harder to get

[finite lance]

Eldrin, while we receive 25% of all kind of dmg when using bloodlust, wouldn’t it just be more logic to receive gouge from any kind of dmg? Considering 2 Handels are often used at dragon lords etc?

[silver summit]

It says 103 physical damage for mly lvl 106 toon. I dont know if the dmg/fury scales, but says 103 to me.

[vocal quail]

yea, physical damage varies compared to level

[noble torrent]

Why bloodcruser has more str than demonic axe if I got still better hits using demonic?

And also why u remove all mele from eq? This nerf wasn't necessary

[silver summit]

@noble torrent it was moved to strengnt. dmg gain should be about the same. this opens new ways to gain skills bonuses, aside from equipment, which gives strenght

[vocal quail]

+melee skill is converted into Strength, so it isnt neccesary

[grim flint]

@finite thistle taking into account our arguments and how many ppl like it, do you consider changing gauge from pchysical dmg to all dmg? Dont you think it would be better and make more sense?

[noble torrent]

How about exori dmg?

[silver summit]

@noble torrent thats spellpower, which strenght also gives to you.

[vagrant kayak]

Is Haste attribute working properly?

On a side-note, I think the variety of 2h weapons feels kind of odd. Everyone will use demonic and then what? There is only so many great weapons and chaos weapons and there is nothing else past lvl 300 rlly. So what are the people gonna do who are not among the lucky pnes to own one of these rare pieces? Do we lose dmg because we use outlvld weapon?

[rose swan]

would be cool if knight could have some trinket in arrow slot

[icy axle]

This is a big issue now. Weapons are not by any means balanced. Axe will always be king for 2handers and club/sword for 1 handers.

[vagrant kayak]

that's another issue but my point is a different one. to maintain same dmg as on live server, we have to use a weapon of our lvl with corresponding strength. but after lvl 300 there is basicly no weapons except great and chaos and onnly a handful of hundreds of knights can get these. so all the rest is left with underlvld weapon and starts losing out dmg

we need more 2h weapons or rip 2h after lvl 350 orso for most of us

[marsh tinsel]

more 2h weapons +

[silver summit]

well, great opportunity for content updates (floating islands & etc)

[finite lance]

Agree, as we take 25% more dmg from any kind of dmg I think it’d be just fair and make the spell worth more against elemental dmg monsters

[noble torrent]

Tbt I just tested great mace and I think it's better than axe. XD

[icy axle]

How the hell do you come to that conclusion?

[noble torrent]

Crushing blow is op when u are hitting monsters with armor, perservance when u got the bloodlust active helps to shoot explo, also it has berserk

[vagrant kayak]

same results for me

but the issue we have to adress is that there wont be enough chaos weapons and great weapons for all the knights around.. so we need new 2h weapons for lvl 400+ or change mining system so everyone can farm the weapon without being disturbed by mining chars

[icy axle]

Thing is when you are taking 25% increased damage, you're still going to have to heal I feel like in 9/10 respawns and 15% increased health won't change that. I feel like crit is still king but maybe with the new formulas crushing blow is superior, haven't tested it so I will have to do so.

4% parry and gouge is comical compared to both other weapons though and I think we can all agree on that.

[noble torrent]

Parry is good att when u killing groups. We can surely agree that with bloodlist it's not possible

[late heron]

The map can provide enough ores to make a great weapon once every 2-3 months I guess? RIP helio market.. however there must be a lot of ores and old weapons out there, and more will come soon enough 🤷‍♂️

[icy axle]

I guess people can argue that my response here will be biased (because I own a great longsword) but I strongly disagree with making great weapons and chaos weapons easier to obtain, however, I do agree there should be other options available. As someone else said, the floating islands would be great for that. It also wouldn't hurt to introduce a couple other two handed weapons, maybe something like an angelic maul from an icon of light, an umbral claymore from a corrupter, or a virulent battleaxe from a typhon?

[vagrant kayak]

fair

[silver summit]

yeah, I feel like most of the item gaps (for any vocation if that matters) or "imbalancements" could be solved through further content updates. doesn't has to be perfect right as of this very next update, which should happen in a couple of days or so

[noble torrent]

Well maybe this crushing blow isn't so op as I thought at first. I think you could modify it somehow it could hit at least 75% of max hit( similar to axes) 2h swords should have swift striker or smth to make it more usefull

[robust cave]

Club>axe>sword

Give a Swift striker att for swords and balance then

[keen plaza]

If mages have the rune pouch for +ML and paladins have the quiver for +dex, you need to give us a purpose for arrow gear. Please provide us with an enchantable item that boosts STR and gives off a great 4k LED light!
Like this coment guys, make it go to Eldrin 🚀

[sinful tangle]

What if crushing blow has a % chance to lower target defense and armor by a % value and this effect stacks.

[sinful tangle]

holster/weapon sheath

[robust cave]

the only sword that was good was nerfed, there will only be people using ax and club and it seems that nobody cares

I doubt that anyone prefers to use great sword than great axe or club, I doubt it!!

[icy axle]

Give us a lunchbox to hold all our meals that we don't use anymore because they cost an arm and a leg. I'll gladly forge a great lunchbox xD

[sinful tangle]

Lunch box?
Here you go

[icy axle]

Bro I had that thing when I was a kid lmao it had the built in sharpener on the back

[sinful tangle]

lmao the red ones taste the best

[icy axle]

Serious question, why are angelic boots considered mage boots when they have literally 1 mage attribute on them and no mage is ever going to wear them? They should be knight boots.

Golden Boots
16:56 Melee damage (strength: 128): 143->625 (old) => 275-670 (new)

Patched Boots
16:57 Melee damage (strength: 126): 143->625 (old) => 274-670 (new)

Adding 2 strength only increases my minimum damage by 1 and that's it? This is what I was afraid of. This the reward for dedicating what feels like a year to mining?

[vagrant kayak]

they offer value beyond strength

[icy axle]

That's definitely a good point, was aimed moreso that 2 strength should be felt I feel like and increasing your minimum damage by 1 is not being felt at all

[quasi berry]

? golden boots are +6 str on patched where did you get +1 from? your just too low level to utilise them properly, 3rd BiS isnt bad

[icy axle]

If 2 strength only increases your mimimun damage by 2 the problem with upgrading equipment before these changes still exists, it's really only worth upgrading into the best in slot/based on attributes.

@quasi berry I am not talking about the level cap on strength, re-read my message thoroughly. My strength increases by 2 and the only difference is that my minimum damage goes up by 1.

[finite thistle]

See the tooltip, hover over the strength label.

[quasi berry]

str effects runes, try to read Eldrins notes thoroughly

[noble torrent]

And that's good. That can bring markets alive

[icy axle]

Guys, miscommunication here. I understand there is the level cap that will give me more strength as I level up. Playing on Odyssey I get that it's always gonna be a crutch for me, it is what it is. I was addressing that increasing my strength by 2 I feel like should have a bigger impact on my damage because currently I see the only thing it changes is my minimum damage by 1. The problem with such a small spike like that is like this, why should someone spend 10k, 100k, or 1kk+ on an upgrade if the strength only increases by such a small amount meaning their damage increase is not even going to be noticible?

[icy axle]

My explo damage went up 1 damage literally with +2 strength

[quasi berry]

i got +5 to min UH and +6 to max from +2 str. but once your 288 you can enjoy your boots to their potential.

[icy axle]

Switching from 2 strength: https://i.gyazo.com/3399459d2faed369a05c85c9f5f9f1c3.mp4

[finite thistle]

Everything is rounded down, so that can be 1.99 damage, but rounded down to 1. Depends on your current skills / level. Also, that's how much it can increase. For gear to have higher impact, level or skills would need to have lower impact.

[icy axle]

Level 286
Ml 9
104 Melee
103 Blocking

My thoughts are just that strength (and dex/int for that matter) should honestly weigh in more on ones damage. Otherwise, again, you face the same problem people have now. It's only worth investing into tip top gear because the changes you feel otherwise are so miniscule that for the tens of thousands/millions of gold it costs you legit do not notice a difference , not sure if I am explaining it properly

Think about it. Is it worth buying something that costs 3kk if your damage is only going to go up by literally 1-2?

[quasi berry]

people paid 300k for dsm and 1kk for mpa for +2 defense whats the difference

[icy axle]

Well, you're talking about 7.4 Tibia, a VERY different game than this bro lmao

[quasi berry]

is it though, people drop KKs for 2% fire resist, different toilet same shit

[vocal quail]

agreed with Icsea, we all pay for minuscule differences already

[icy axle]

2% fire protection is drastically superior than increasing your minimum damage by 1.

[quasi berry]

" the changes you feel otherwise are so miniscule that for the tens of thousands/millions of gold it costs you legit do not notice a difference"

[vocal quail]

thats not his point though Brian.. hes trying to get across we're paying for minuscule differences in general as it is.. let alone when update launches

[icy axle]

I would have to argue that 2% fire protection is not a miniscule amount though is my point

[quasi berry]

Phoenix backpack

[icy axle]

17:21 You see a phoenix backpack (Vol:35).
It weighs 6.5 oz.
Attributes: Resistance (Fire, 1%).
This lightweight backpack was made from the feathers of a phoenix.

Even 1% fire is not miniscule. Add up how much fire damage you recieve in an hour of hunting, it's a lot. Increasing your minimum damage by 1 over the course of an hour is a fraction of that.

[quasi berry]

your welcome to hunt PoI DL and calc how long it takes to stack up your 1kk cost of 1% fire resist and then buy 1kk of uhs

[vocal quail]

agree to disagree, you both got your points across.

[icy axle]

Well, poi dls is a terrible example for this conversation bro lol nobody whos farming poi dls is going to have a phoenix bp. Add up the fire damage you take from flamebringers, that's a better example.

[quasi berry]

whatever fire monster you pick the, the cost of runes will always outweigh the cost of the attribute, but Litho is right go get 288 and your boots will be decent

[icy axle]

Will do bro ty but guys do you honestly disagree with what I am saying? It isn't about me honestly. I just meant that I think str/dex/int should impact damage formulas more than it does, or do people like how it is?

Look at this picture of all the mage gear. I understand a couple pieces of equipment are changing as stated but look at the difference in them. Idk it just seems like it isn't worth upgrading to the next piece of equipment unless it's best in slot lol

[vocal quail]

Eldrin mentioned str influences rune dmg more than it does skill dmg, right? str in bigger numbers gives a little boost to skill dmg but in general your melee skill is the thing packing a punch

[icy axle]

I like that melee is the core damage from knights now, I just think str/dex/int should matter more. People should want to seek an upgrade to their set if it increases it by 1-2 str/dex/int and from what I am seeing I would not really care unless it was 10+ of a change.

[quasi berry]

i mean the 2h change is huge for ek already there is going to be very little you cant solo, EQ is never going to be worth upgrading in small jumps with the attribute system, its really hard to make trash eq relevant, without some system thats like +1,+2,+3 etc where you could make a crown shield better then like a MMS for example.

[icy axle]

I think this definitely fixes knights solo hunting. I am gonna test some spawns now. I think it's moreso just me being old school. I miss when you looted a rare and could sell to people rather than npc it, especially since the market is still delayed. I guess I just need to accept that 99% of loot, even rares, are just vendor items at this point.

[quasi berry]

yeah the days of 10kk chaos shield are long gone 😦, Zaxx selling SotA to people for 1kk with its "physical resist"

[icy axle]

Is there a spot with the training dummies on test server with mad hp still?

[vocal quail]

yep, !rework tp

[tiny cedar]

how do i enter test server?

its saying that my client is either too new or too old

[vocal quail]

you need to download the test server client and check the test server login box

https://download.medivia.online/medivia-test.zip

[glacial cedar]

where can l find the new strengh att formula ?

[icy axle]

My thoughts on item changes:

• Mages need more shield options. Give them some weak defense shields with 1-5 intelligence on them.
• Angelic boots should be knight boots, not mage boots. Change Int > Str
• Increase the attack on the arming sword, it's weird it has higher str than the giant sword but still has a redundant attack value
• Increase the attack on the dragon slayer, similar situation the str is higher but has lower attack still
• Increase the attack on all 3 crystallized weapons
• Buff Hailstorms attack from 79 > 82
• Buff Blazing Greatswords attack from 82 > 84
• Buff Great Longswords parry from 4% > 5%
• Buff Angelic Platemail (vast grip was removed but has no str increase, also should have more str than hellforged to begin with)
• Buff Umbral Platemail (vast grip was removed but has no str increase)
• Buff Watcher Legs (vast grip was removed but has no str increase)
• Remove Chaos Shields property that damages attackers for a fixed number or change it to scale with your blocking skill/level because currently it's useless and just ticks down your boost when you run to a spawn with it on
  Add Resistance: 2% Chaos property to Chaos Shield
  Add Resistance: 4% Chaos attribute to Chaos Shield
• Add Int to Quicksand Boots so that mages can also utilize them
• Change Lean attribute on Gold/Magician/Archer Backpacks to +1 Str/Int/Dex respectfully
• Change Lean attribute on Chilled Backpack to +1 Str, +1 Int, +1 Dex
• Add 1 Armor value to Corrupted Backpack
  Add Resistance: 1% Chaos to Corrupted Backpack as a property
• Add Resistance: 1% Fire to Phoenix Backpack as a property
• Add Resistance: 1% Death to Shadow Phoenix Backpack as a property
  -Add Ice Phoenix Backpack to the game
  Add Resistance: 1% Ice to Ice Phoenix Backpack as a property
  Add Resistance: 1% Ice to Ice Phoenix Backpack as an attribute

Last but not least, PLEASE revisit ALL ITEM attributes and change useless ones (haste, fortitude, gouge, slowing shot, etc.)

[trail steeple]

@icy axle Brian, both Phoenix BPs each already have 1% fire and 1% death
unless on test server was changed but at live servers it works like that already

[icy axle]

Yes I know, I think they should have an additional 1% as a property. Also, is there an ice phoenix bp? I don't know if that exists

[trail steeple]

No, theres no frozen Bp as far as I know, but they dont have Lean atribute, just the resistance atm

[icy axle]

Awkward

[trail steeple]

1% extra wouldnt hurt tho, would make it more apealing to buy or atribute one.
I looted a phoenix BP clean during my task but I hate atributing stuff so I left it at my house floor ever since, but if it was 2% I might consider atributing

[dusky epoch]

what are the best options for kina solo now? in weapons

[icy axle]

I also want to point out a problem area I am noticing. It seems that 1 handers are only made for team hunting now. The problem with this is all 1 handed axes are essentially rendered useless as when team hunting you want defensive stats and attributes, not offensive. Nobody is going to want 5% crit chance when blocking on full defense when they can instead have 5% perseverance or 5% parry. Same kind of goes for using clubs or swords when you are trying to dps on a hunt. Parry can be appealing on a 2 hander I suppose, but is fully rendered useless when teamhunting as a dps knight. I think some more balancing down the road can come into play with this and I don't really have any suggestions other than allowing the changing of sister weapons (e.g., you're an axe knight currently and want to exchange your axe of primordial fire for a sword of primordial fire) and changing some attributes on some items.

[robust cave]

after the nerf to hailstorm's elemental damage, a buff to her base attack would be a really great balance

[tawdry ferry]

+1k

[late heron]

Yeah let's get a nice gold border around dawnlight 🥳

[robust cave]

21:36 Melee damage (strength: 96): 100->667 (old) => 238-762 (new) 21:36 Melee damage (strength: 91): 100->667 (old) => 236-761 (new)

5 str only give 2 min damage and 1 max? wtf

[tawdry ferry]

Some one know how much min-max dmg give skills now? for ex going from 100 to 101 melee?

Its worth now keep training from skills 100+ in non fast paced servers?

[lucid light]

Yes, I believe this was made to balance super high levels damage and make skills matter more than equipment, which is not wrong. It ended up with a low phys damage output, but people say it scales better with rune damage.

[brittle sage]

I would like to know it too

[robust cave]

this executor att, could not be active with more percentage of life? 10% is a joke

[brittle sage]

a lot of atts are bad jokes... haste, lean, etc

[finite lance]

For me melee ring (+4 melee) gave me + 30 max dmg on sca and + 50 max dmg on demonic axe. Hope that helps.

[grim flint]

Atts must be reworked and everybody including eldrin know it bevause he said it many times. I think devs will think about it when they are done with this patch. And flooded lands. And markets. And Elite mobs. The thing im scared about is this patch will make knights buying other weapon cause of merging skills. And when atts are reworked the same weapons could not be as good anymore

I mean the best solution would be to have str/dex/int and reworked atts in the same patch even if we need to wait few months more

And yea, when i look at the demonic Axe it has 6 attributes and 2/3 are useless

[vagrant kayak]

i do agree that there is a few attributes that need looking at, however attributes are a colossal waste of money anyway, just wait with it until eldrin has found time to tweak them.

question to all: why is haste generally considered useless? isnt 4% haste = 4% more auto attacks over course of say 1h? u wont notice it in a minute or two but it adds up?

question @finite thistle : is 4% haste linked to base attack speed of 2h weapons or will it adapt to 2000ms attack speed during spell, so i get +4% of 30 attacks/minute?

[finite thistle]

It scales with attack speed, so it's always -4% of current attack speed, with spell active it will be 2000x0.96 and without it's 3000x0.96

[grim flint]

@finite thistle please change formula to all dmg taken instead of melee during bloodstance

[lofty saddle]

I mean it is pretty obvious its on purpose.

Maybe reduce it and change to all damage but still thats a big change.

Also gotta say rage is a great concept and would be nice if u could maybe work on it further if u come up with something Eldrin.

[vagrant kayak]

since it has come up, here‘s my list of what attributes i think need tweaks, also with regard to the skill merge:

1. lean has to go, its a 2kk prank on the cost of demonic users
2. executioner needs to start extra dmg at higher threshhold, at 30-40%, down at 10% its fairly useless
3. gouge should be changed to like 5x20 dmg, that super long low dmg tick is useless and it doesn‘t refresh either; % chance for extra 100 dmg is in line with stuff like energy strike, flame strike etc
4. crushing blow should get a buff to minimum dmg, maybe 50%? rn it stinks compared to counter part crit
5. vitality should be removed from 2h weapons, same as lean it is an expensive prank, noone who uses a 2h cares about tankiness

[lucid light]

@finite thistle good morning, please don't forget to check these messages regarding the formula.

[lucid light]

This one too, thanks

[robust cave]

@finite thistle

[finite thistle]

#1112345846839787631 message

[frosty kelp]

@finite thistle Could we get some dummys down please ❤️

[robust cave]

any chance of a small hailstorm improvement? it's really bad @finite thistle

[finite thistle]

No planned changes. It went from super OP to good sword.

[robust cave]

UP to 35% elemental, or more attack 81..82 attack

[abstract blaze]

@finite thistle magic plate boots get nerfed?

[finite thistle]

#1112323809886875690 message

[abstract blaze]

it was givin 11 str and now is giving 5, i have full lvl to use it and its fully atributed

[finite thistle]

#1118515186672881716 message

[robust cave]

79 and 25% elemental is low, try to consider it fondly S2

[abstract blaze]

it says 1106 to 1290 and i healed 1020

[finite thistle]

Should be fixed. Tooltip value was too high, it was from the UH healing buff that was removed.

[abstract blaze]

so with more level i'll be healing less then in live server?

[last pier]

I don't think that making hlvl items to give less bonus is good idea as lvls and items are sometimes tweak really strange. As a knight you will probably get dragon/guardian shield first and go to vampire (80/100lvl) or demon (130/160lvl) really soon, like when you are ~50 lvl or so.
Crown set shouldn't be archer eq only too.
Also helmets looks weird - ancient being 90/110lvl, warlord 190/250 and many cringe/meme stuff between. Actually I have no clue how does EK should change helmets over the time.
Up to some point you want to get as much arm as you can and later on you can focus on resistances, when monsters deal more dmg.
Also considering you need to change eq more often attributing cost of low and medium lvl eq should be changed

[finite thistle]

Also considering you need to change eq more often attributing cost of low and medium lvl eq should be changed
I am currently working on that, when filling missing attributes.

[keen plaza]

@finite thistle

[last pier]

Good to hear about it, but also think carefully about shield lvls, EK grabs the best weapon he can afford first, next shield and later on armor (very early in the game). Also please take a look at the helmets EK should use on his journey up to ~250lvl it looks really confusing.

[finite thistle]

Currently there are no plans to add that.

[main cape]

when should test server changes happen?

[trail cedar]

Why was Vast grip scrapped? I've lost an immense amount of Incurso damage since its skill based.

[low verge]

@finite thistle is every item on floor in rework room available in game atm ?

[robust cave]

it's a nerf disguised as a buff on this rework haha

[eternal mural]

yes? or they used to be obtainable in the past

[rotund solstice]

@finite thistle since you changed the name of shielding to blocking, is there any plans to make the amount you block with your 2 handers scale with blocking instead? and also let hits taken give you blocking progress (could perhaps be halved compared to using shield). Currently it feels a bit bad completely sacrificing your shielding progress when hunting primarily with 2 handers.

[low verge]

Thinking on terra set

[eternal mural]

everything except boots

[ivory wren]

What is this "Vast Grip (21)" on umbral platemail?

[naive shale]

Str bonus from attribute: +21

[frosty kelp]

so, with this revision of hell what does strength even do ? 14:18 Melee damage (strength: 22): 68->570 (old) => 160-573 (new)
14:18 Melee damage (strength: 5): 68->570 (old) => 154-568 (new) so first one is with warlord,mpa,hfl and demonic axe with crit so pretty much all clean apart from crit. second one is naked with demonic axe with crit :S

[ivory wren]

Every time i log on test sv knights dmg are lower

[valid dew]

well if u have no stregenth ofcourse its not different

[robust cave]

it's a nerf disguised as a buff 😆😆😆😆😆

[keen plaza]

You offer and remove options simultaneously. Yesterday was fine, even with the nerf you implemented, I noticed the difference. However, today when I logged in and realized that Vast Grip changed to strength, I understood that if I continue using my Hellforged set, I will lose 200 healing in UH. To compensate and deal more damage while healing, I need a complete set with Vast Grip, such as Angelic Armor, Watcher Legs, Warlord, or HOTF full set. Weapons without Vast Grip also become obsolete in the game. Then, my UH gets a boost, but I become as vulnerable as a dog. Instead of buffing the knight, are you expecting me to acquire 2 sets? And where will the money come from? In addition to the cost of the dry item, I'll need money to enchant until I get Vast Grip on a set that isn't even what I want or need because I'm sacrificing physical defense. Therefore, include Vast Grip in all knight items, just like paladin items have precision and mage items have intelligence. It doesn't make sense for me, a player who hasn't been playing for years, to have to obtain 2 full sets in order to have enough power to claim that there was a buff.

[finite thistle]

Why two sets? Also:

Therefore, include Vast Grip in all knight items, just like paladin items have precision and mage items have intelligence.
This is what I am currently doing, and what was planned from the beginning and what I have explained multiple times.

[keen plaza]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, sorry so, u doing a great work man!

[vagrant kayak]

As long as you find a solution for the monetary problem of having to attribute new stuff every 50 lvls, all cool.

[finite thistle]

Cost of attributing (of Vast Grip, Intelligence, Precise attributes) will be decreased, it will scale with item level.

[marsh tinsel]

This is very good news

[keen plaza]

You warm our hearts with this news.

[noble torrent]

How about the money we spend? And how about exori dmg scalled with skills?

[finite thistle]

I am afraid it won't be refunded in any way. Berserk and Decimate formula may be adjusted.

[vagrant kayak]

come on now brother, money spent is water down the river, you have the attribute already in that case, you got the buff and for future items you will also profit of this change

[marsh tinsel]

forget about money spent lol, in anything you invest you know that it can deppreciate or go up. In this case in went down it is how it is
same as aquariums

[abstract blaze]

but will items that were full come with the attribute or will we have to use more crystals??

[quasi berry]

attributes and properties dont work the same, you need a property to reduce field damage

[keen plaza]

I will put Vast Grip in Clubs and axes too, right?

[blazing moon]

Now i loved , The mephitic set its worthy again 👏🏻👏🏻🥳 @finite thistle

[cyan basin]

strength values were decreased since yesterday?

[noble torrent]

Ye my char is defenetly weaker than yesterday

btw why difference is so small. the guy has axe ring so skills are almost the same, but he has near half my str and almost the same dmg

[sage vapor]

this looks more like a smokescreen snorts everything and nerfs kina with a fake huff

[small tapir]

I have no clue what happened since yesterday, but today knights with good eq heal way more hp than before patch and deal same damage with runes. So basically we are back to knights being obnoxiously overpowered like on day 1 of test server.

[cyan basin]

i do less dmg with weapon and runes today but i heal more lol

[last pier]

1 str gives flat 0.3 min and 0.35 max dmg

[vagrant kayak]

Eldrin increased strength/dex/int on all items by 10% which is the cause for increased rune dmg, so same applies to rangers

[small tapir]

well, this is madness

[noble torrent]

i have worse stats than yesterday. did heal more and hit more with explos

[small tapir]

probably because you are wearing hf set. The difference eq makes rn is crazy and I thought we were about to finish test server with values from yesterday.

[noble torrent]

nope i got best eq on my lvl. and i just posted the screen that proves eq doesnt matter almost at all

[finite thistle]

Bonus from attributes. Bonus from property stayed the same.

Have in mind that everything changes all the time, and may even change again soon. I am doing calculations every time and when I notice that something is off, I am changing it again.

[cyan basin]

warlord helmet -> 18 strength, hf helmet -> 12 strength

[frosty kelp]

What was off from yesterdays ?

[small tapir]

healing on test server 3200 - 3700
healing on real server (25 more lvls) 3000 - 3500

I know that I'm wearing sick eq on test server but that is such a major increase out of no where while when we started test server uh was supposed to be nerfed.

[finite thistle]

Healing was not adjusted in tooltip, check now.

In fact it was different from real values for a day or so.

[small tapir]

offensive rune damage when using !rework command also indicate that knight's did not receive any dmg loss when wearing good eq

[finite thistle]

Also, Sheol set may be way to powerful, and will be decreased to leave room for other new items.

It was overbuffed on purpose, by about 20% compared to other items.

[noble torrent]

wow. now i got huge nerf on uhs. got 2095-2440 on TS, and 2368-2763 live at 35lvl more seems alot.

[valid dew]

sheol set does seem like a crazy gap, idk if its good or not

[finite thistle]

Try after reboot. Sheol items bonuses are back to proper values, without that extra buff.

[cyan basin]

why warlord helmet is better than hf (18 strength vs 12)

[noble torrent]

thx for buffing bloodcruser, did you think about changing attributes at 2h swords and clubs so make them more usefull? adding swift strike, changing crusng blow or smth?

[last pier]

from 2nd day to today:
(Using ~proper lvl or even underleveled gear)

[small tapir]

ok dmg and healing looks way more reasonable rn

[valid dew]

FOOKIN wiggy nerfed my sds again

[abstract blaze]

i'm healing less in test server then in live server, lol

[finite thistle]

To still allow training with normal gear equipped, strength will from now only work with weapons with attack 15 or higher, just like previously min. damage worked.

[eternal mural]

they are worse than before now archer armor and legs used to give 54 now they give 48

[finite thistle]

All Sheol gear pieces had an extra 10 bonus stats on top of proper item level bonus. It was supposed to be reduced to 5 some time ago, but I decided to remove it completely, since 10% attribute bonus was added.

[eternal mural]

ye and now its like barely an upgrade again

[sand jackal]

that's an awesome job ur doing...shows u really care, thanks for that...

just please please please, make it a way that EKs can hunt solo and make decent exp... all i ask...

[runic nova]

What has changed from yesterday regarding melee dmg

[native wharf]

I guess its time to have a clear overview of the changes that are going to be implemented

[last pier]

damn, uhs are now nerfed too, comparing do 2nd day 🤔

[abstract blaze]

please give our uh back :(

[last pier]

from 2nd day (screen) to today:
17:23 Current changes:
Spellpower: [287] to [286] (264 + 22)
same eq which fits my lvl or is even pretty weak

Don't know what is going on but everyday client says different old values both for spellpower and meelee 😆

[rose swan]

Lol with new changes i got 15.67% nerf on uh, where that come from??? Thats 500 healing less per uh

[slim cape]

I was told that 9% uh nerf is actually a buff so dont cry, we will be fine

[finite lance]

😂😂😂

[cyan basin]

i believe the changes since yesterday were that set without vast grip have huge nerf in strength, for example warlord helmet it seems better than hf helmet, same with angelic plate mail vs hf armor @finite thistle

[finite lance]

Guys I’m afraid to test everything later when I’m back home lol 🫣

[finite thistle]

Weak gear. Hellforged armor, hellforged legs on level 590.

[runic prairie]

On current test server, with my regular gear on my knight, with HFA seemingly missing some strength. With a 5 level difference from live, I lose a little bit of damage from my runes, about 50 average on UH and 15 damage on explosion runes. If HFA gets strength on the attributes in a later fix, it will be about the same. Seems mostly fine. Melee damage is up a little bit, even with my low skills of 93 base.

Same thing on Angelic, forgot to mention. It's missing power

[finite thistle]

Also, these two items dont have attribute yet on test server, so strength bonus is missing. I just started assigning attributes to knight items.

[valid dew]

dont add str to golden boots, it makes no sense

[finite thistle]

Why? Shouldn't golden boots be wearable by knights?

[orchid tulip]

golden boots should have all 3 atributes

[valid dew]

no i mean it got 11 already, it would be the 5th boost to this boots? i mean for all vocs, just 11 is fine doesnt need more. gotta think of how stupid mining system is and how its abused for years with noob chars, with even more stats on it it will be very close to sheol piece

[quasi berry]

@finite thistle is there anything in the pipeline for set bonuses on gear? if you equip all

[finite thistle]

Used to be 22 or so. All of strength was pretty much cut in half, to be added as attributes. As I explained multiple times already.

[rose swan]

Hellforged armor is still BIS item for general use for knight. Like i won't pay 100kk for set like umbral, that only have use in teamhunt on 3 spots. Design better items/spots to justify upgrade. Same goes to armor of suffering 1% more physical but 3% less fire, 3% less death.
Angelic legs only makes it 20 more healing

[quasi berry]

your just going to make him swap the properties from HF armor to Umbral or Meph

[edgy lagoon]

i can tell u soemthing fun XD i gained 15 dmg in max hit only

[runic prairie]

The nerfs that have come here, has mostly been due to people who have no clue what they are even talking about asking for it, not understanding that what they're asking for will negatively affect them. Subsequently they come back here and complain that they lost what they had.

[runic nova]

I think the confusion today was vast grip missing from items at least for myself.

[vocal sparrow]

Knights have multiple sets for different hunting scenarios. Wouldn't it be a better idea to encourage item diversity by making str or attribute scale with the character level, instead of making the item itself level requirement?

I also understand how much more complex that will make the coding, but that is an idea.

[strange umbra]

You should leave the (old) damage and (new) damage for the first week of the update @finite thistle

[valid dew]

Knights are natural tanks, they should get a few % physical resist when they get lvl 20 and sheol promo. Meanwhile all other vocs should get a few % negative

Archers could get speed, mages could get elemental resist for example

[robust cave]

since everything is being nerfed why not also nerf the extra damage received by bloodlust? 25% is quite a lot!
or else give a decent damage buff in return

apparently in the real medivia it is better than in the test server with so much resource to increase the damage that in the real it did not increase

[split vessel]

it's not strange that basically with a 2h weapon we get 25% more dmg, but UH will heal less 😄

and I don't understand it well

[robust cave]

but naturally gets more for not shielding, plus 25% more damage taken from all sources

[split vessel]

yes naturally cause u have 2H eqiped + 25% from stance mode

[sinful tangle]

What... are you guys doing

[split vessel]

or 25% is the price for an accelerated attack with 2H weapon right ?

[robust cave]

??? Great buff, Max hit lower and 50 min damage

[valid dew]

No str my man

[robust cave]

to receive more damage, the ideal would be to cause more damage too... but apparently it's too bad unless you hunt fiery beetle forever haha

[sinful tangle]

Using highest strength gear my level can provide

Looks like EK leveling experience is going to be fun

[noble torrent]

Idk how it works but with umbral helmet, armor, boots, angelic legs my dmg isn't so much better than eq with half my str seems that lvl and eq doest matter so much. Now I need home office job to skill 24/7

[valid dew]

What level are you?

[sinful tangle]

91 its like 4 str per piece max

[valid dew]

So you are 91 and can 2 shot a dragon with melee and complain? .
This update is to buff gear. Low lvl gear is low buff

[quasi berry]

remember when ek max hit with SoV couldnt go above 300

[sinful tangle]

That first set of numbers tested full set of high level gear giving me effectively 0 str

[icy axle]

If golden boots can have dex/int then I want white dress to have str. It’s absolutely dumb but keep it that way across the board then.

[sinful tangle]

Dont care. Training EK to 100 skills then hunting with explosions like this wont be fun. Thanks

[noble torrent]

Ye and now check this. I don't think that's the idea but seems like lvl and eq be almost irrelevant

[analog surge]

str mathers more to explo / uhs?

[icy axle]

Dude after all those comments and shit you said you’re a lvl 91 knight?

[sinful tangle]

I been advocating for the leveling experience. Seems relevant.

Plus aren't you only 200 or something? How is that any better

[sinful tangle]

lol unironically we should be on the same team here bud

[noble torrent]

Not sure, but I still got lower hits with explo, and uhs nerfed like 5-10% with almost top eq

[analog surge]

yep

[cobalt imp]

y

[analog surge]

4 sure its a nerf... while they are at it i think they should take a look a this druid healing spell that makes druid be able to spam explos / bursts for 10 seconds, maybe that spell only should be able to be used on other players? ;)))

[sinful tangle]

lol people that actually want to play ek getting cucked by high level RP and mage opinions. Rip

[noble torrent]

Feels like only voc benefit on this balance is rp

[sage vapor]

THE WORST PROFESSION IN MEDIVIA, WITHOUT CONTEST IS KNIGHT

[sinful tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/played-gif-13534492
Nice job EK mains.

[lofty saddle]

? Ek is very good on rates that game is balanced around. If your highest char ever is 90lvl pls don't spam the channel.

[sinful tangle]

Do you main EK?

[upper rapids]

hes a novus stayer

[upper skiff]

The issue is not every other voc giving feedback, the issue is that devs implement feedback however they want; i/e i said first day kngiht melee was too strong, tone it down by 30% and then eldrin proceeded to absolutely destroy the buff. eldrin heard "oh its op" and butchered it completely XD

[upper skiff]

He was Purity's second highest ek and first team to complete sheol, main blocker for sheol. 590 EK

[sinful tangle]

Crazy whyd he quit?

[upper skiff]

probably cause he finished all the content

[sinful tangle]

I wonder why he doesn't advocate for a better leveling experience for other Ek's then. 🤔

[upper skiff]

we all advocate for it, but the solution isnt to turn eks into main dps and not need a team to reach max exp/hr

[sinful tangle]

Sounds more like he doesn't care because he reached all that he needs or he wants to remain the top and doesn't want anyone to get there easier.

[icy axle]

Could also be he had a team to hunt with 24/7 🐸☕️

[upper skiff]

Sounds like you love to make assumptions about things you don't know

[sinful tangle]

I was going to say this but retards always respond with "What no friends? hur dur"

[upper skiff]

He fresh started Progeny and is now lvl 460+ on a druid; not same voc he just got tired of playing knight. Requiring teamhunts does suck sometimes, but you can get away with mostly solo hunting until you need to finish the bigger faction missions, AWs/Royalists/demonic faction etc

[icy axle]

Dude there’s a way of going about things. I’m saying that because I know it for a fact and played Purity. You’re literally brand-new to this community and super outspoken out of nowhere, and to be honest, say some real crazy ideas that we are nervous devs might actually implement lol

[sinful tangle]

I dont force any of this. I only invite the conversation but all im met with is fucktards trying to check my credentials. Now that I think about it. That credential checking is just fear like you say

[upper skiff]

When you're doing super delicate work, you want the most experienced hands. You'd want a veteran brain surgeon if your life depended on it, not someone who's never operated before. Same concept here, not to bash you, you just don't have the insight required for proper feedback

[sinful tangle]

You act like everyone that offers their input in here dont have any other motives. With that being said how are the most experienced any better than the least with regard to the true outcome: a more enjoyable experience.

[upper skiff]

There is always bias ofc. but there are still people who want real balance so the game can still be fun for each vocation without rendering other's worthless

I liked the rage idea, i loved the 2h DPS mode idea for knights, they suffer a lot up until lvl 250 or so. I was down with the changes, just expressed that we needed to tone down the buff by a little 20-35% or so; and we needed to talk about scaling down the buff heavily after lvl 450+ since that's where we saw the majority of the problems start to occur

[sinful tangle]

How can you be convinced of that after hearing whats transpired over the last few days bro lol. Just try and think about how all of this has gone so far and who has advocated for what. Really think about it

[rain berry]

Being a veteran don't always mean being wise and knowing better, something that happens with a certain frequency in software's development is a junior discovering a way to solve an issue that caused many veterans to scratch their heads. Sometimes a fresh look is needed on the matter, even if it comes from someone less experienced

[vagrant kayak]

get eq adequate for ur lvl, swiping time is over 😄

[upper skiff]

Because i filtered out opinions from non-experienced players and most hlvl eks and experienced players generally wanted to push things in the right direction

[noble torrent]

Ok let's sum all the things up.
First of all I loose 35 lvls, got 100 mele dmg averange buff, explo nerf, uh nerf, exori nerf. Seems like nice buff in total.

[sinful tangle]

This is exactly the kind thing that level bias will always dull. And has in this community.

[icy axle]

Who advocated for this spell and str/dex/int? 😂

[upper skiff]

I agree, that's why its a discussion and we asked multiple people not just a handful of 'veterans'. Your reference to software devs is only relevant if your senior devs refuse to implement new coding practices and are still stuck writing in java vs kotlin for example, not necessarily relevant here though. I would agree about a "fresh look" but lets be honest, in the MMO GENRE when it comes to skills, abilities, technique etc theres not a lot of room for new ideas, we've pretty much explored it all

[sinful tangle]

You mean wisdom?

[icy axle]

I know all I said was to make decimate melee range (nerf), remove instant healing from barbels (nerf), and to make 2 handed weapons have normalized atk speed again 🐸☕️

Oh, and to make skills matter

[finite thistle]

All modified items should now have some respective attribute, that increases bonus item. Sheol items bonus was slightly increased. Chances to obtain attributes on low level items should be now much higher (cost was lowered).

[icy axle]

I’m not against these things. I give @finite thistle credit, pretty sure he pulled it off. Just saying as far as who advocated for what that was what I was pushing for.

[sinful tangle]

Its a tough analogy because junior devs are just that. new But everyone here has played a video game before. I doubt this was our first game. We each bring some kind of experience to the table. But nitpicking on that isnt the point. The point is everyone brings something and to think they don't calls into question your motives.

[upper skiff]

IF im right... i think devs wanted to force this str/dex/int fuckery on us because they want to control damage scale for characters beyond lvl 600 because people are "lvling too fast" which is contradictory to their actions because they made "XP boosts" a thing

[vagrant kayak]

why are u even talking to doax, he is 100% troll, like he doesnt know anything about the game at all XD

[finite thistle]

Angelic boots are now knight boots.

[halcyon dirge]

chances to obtain atts on low level items are lower or higher than before?

[icy axle]

Should be easier to attribute weak items now

[finite thistle]

Thanks for pointing it out, I edited my message.

[outer gulch]

@finite thistle idk if intended but on test server there is some bug - i cant move corpses of monsters, it says that im not the owner

[upper skiff]

You may have valuable input in one way or another, but a lot of your opinions will be shot down by others because there are factors you're unaware of because of your inexperience. Like for example you're advocating for making knight melee buff overpowered but don't realize that in end game, you cannot progress without a knight to block. Literally impossible to progress and without that knowledge you make uninformed opinions so it WILL FEEL like people are shitting on you. but they are not, you just don't have a complete picture of the situation

Pretty much once you reach lvl 250 content you will start heavily depending on a knight to complete your tasks, however this is seperated from another issue that knights feel they fall off in solo play, because once you enter sheol, if you're sub 300, you need shooters to have decent exp/hr

[sinful tangle]

My issue is not the response from the big brains. My issue is the response without test. I don't know you guys all I know about you is that before the test servers went up you made alot of assertions that turned out to be completely wrong and you then shifted your arguments wildly to the other direction like a herd. This is the reason I want to test things instead of just outright saying they're broken because even the most experienced guy here cant seem to accurately predict the outcome and that doesn't make me want to just outright trust everything said.

[upper skiff]

I always advocated for testing and when i started writing feedback it was after witnessing testing results, not from wild speculations or anything, I'm sure some people did voice their untested opinions but not everyone does that

[sinful tangle]

You see thats the issue though. Overweight on opinions that seem to come from experience, when test should be the way. But thats not how the conversation goes does it?

[finite thistle]

Should be fixed now.

[upper skiff]

Well the issue again with that is that melee buff was nerfed too hard, we gave specific numbers that we wanted to see changed and devs just did their own thing, that's also not our fault xD

[last pier]

add small crystals please to npc 😄
many med-low lvl items are 100% on big ones

[upper skiff]

From day 1 we just said "melee buff is too strong, reduce it by 20-30-40%" Then eldrin reverted the atk speed bonus to rage mode, which we made no comment about, made no change to rage regeneration and spell cost, which we said was too slow and cost too high. Then to pour salt in the wound, he nerfed the melee buff by idk how much but it felt horrible