Archer related changes

[spring echo]

But nevertheless its safe to say that it is nowhere close to the numbers posted by devs pre-patch.

As i stated previously i have been exclusively hunting with piercing bolts.
Can anyone that are using hunting bolts confirm that they also have the same issues so that its not the ammunition itself that are causing the problem?

Also it would be nice to get some kind of response from any of the devs about this to know if its even being looked at, atm it feels like its just being ignored

@hallow minnow ?

[timber saffron]

[hallow minnow]

I did perform some tests and there is one issue. Piercing arrows & bolts still have 90% hit chance cap, I did change it. Now all ammunition has 95% maximum hit chance except for bolts, arrows, poison arrows and shakirian arrows.

With 127 distance fighting, 5 sqm distance from target and 4% extra hit chance, the hit chances are the following:

• piercing bolts: 938/1000 hits = 93.8%/94% hit chance
• hunting bolts: 987/1000 hits = 98.7/99% hit chance

So there is nothing wrong with the formula, just piercing ammunition. Just wanted to confirm it here. Whether there will be changes to this system that were suggested here, like 100% hit chance but lowered damage is another thing. It may or not be implemented, this topic has to be discussed with rest of the team.

[timber saffron]

I would prefer 100% hitrate and a decrease in damage accordingly anyday!

[cold willow]

How is this even still a discussion lmfao

[subtle meteor]

Give demon snake a golden bolt for that bugfix

[gentle hawk]

no he lazy only tested 1000 instead of requested 10000 -.-

[fluid charm]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-the-one-archery-fail-ayto-mtv-gif-9990010

you doin it wrong bruh ive been telling you

[spring echo]

Thank you!

[spring echo]

https://tenor.com/view/leonardo-dicaprio-gif-21978827

[pearl raft]

can you make it so you cannot shoot heavy ammo when spell is inactive?

[tired mantle]

This, but also let's hope they don't overdo it. We are already punished heavily by wearing no shield and having like 50% hit chance at point blank range. Imo the dmg reduction should be max like 10%

[timber saffron]

More like 1%

[molten shore]

just think about that guys any damage is better than nothing, Eldrin is starting to think about this so pls don't fuck it up xD just a suggestion

[tired mantle]

Well I hope there's 0% reduction tbh.

And I was talking about a potential reduction ONLY at point-blank range.

[spring echo]

+1

[fast oriole]

+1

[mighty mason]

angelic legs should be equal as primordial fire weapons,

[timber saffron]

@hallow minnow while u are adjusting piercing arrow data, now would be a good time to make conjure piercing arrow spell

[tired mantle]

Has there been any discussion about the Slowing Shot attribute on distance weapons?

In my opinion is an utter trash. The slow is almost unnoticeable and the whole idea is bad at its core. You never go solo hunting creatures you cannot outrun at their normal speed, so that little slow changes nothing and sometimes is even frustrating, because it disturbs your pacing.

[elder locust]

why would you make piercing ammunitiont hat bad?
there is no reason.

• i want another ammunition with 2-4 atk more than existing arrows and bolts and 2-6% more armor penetration for 50gp and same mana as heavy to conjure.
  i think ranger still lacks a bit dmg on solo play but it feels a lot better now.
  just speaking about 1-250 on serenity with guchi gear

[elder locust]

instead of slowing shot +hitchance or +minimum dmg

5%chance to increase minimum dmg by 10%? 5% chance to always hit above 75% of your dmg for 6 seconcs?

can we get a solo marksman spell with 20%-30% hp decrease and 25-33% of its benefit in spellpower and atk on ammunition? could use existing heavy ammunition and make it 45atk with spell active
it still feels ranger is a lot weaker then druid.
but i can only speak of lvl 1-250 and now with event druids have crazy mlvl. why can they pump so much cash to gain mlvl as fuck while ranger and eks are left alone. i want to drink so potions so i can get higher distance as well

[fluid charm]

why would you remove best attribute on archers

i think slow shot should be nerfed to 1%

in all weapons

[novel tusk]

Problems I see with archers right now even after update is with the new arcane marksmanship spell active our EHP compared to a mage is +- HALF of a mage which is super weird considering we're supposed to be a tankier class and catching mobs that retarget before getting to the squishy mages etc. I think 40% is a little much and it should be 20% hp reduced or something closer in that range. Another thing is our mana is completely useless outside of vita and never gets used on anything we are supposed to be high single target dps class i think implementing a spell like multi shot or something along those lines to shoot 5-10 arrows really fast for 300-500 mana and have all the arrows deal 50% or more of max hit would be cool or something along those lines to not have our mana be completely useless. Also the new spell feels really clunky still at the moment because our EHP is sooooo low with it active we're constantly having to toggle mana shield on and off. I dont know how I feel about AOE on a paladin but maybe something like ricochet shot where your arrows bounce to other targets within "X" sqm or something to kill trash mobs would also be viable..idk rant over didnt proof the post just thinking outloud

[ripe mural]

you still have more HP than mage on the same lvl

[novel tusk]

yes but our EHP is halved. which means if a monster retargets to us for example a sentinel or ancient watcher or anything we will die in half the time a mage would with mana shield on

what good does it do to have 200-300hp more than a mage if we are forced to have manashield on when the spell is active and have half the mana pool as a mage

as it stands we can only have the spell active when we are in a team hunt, and I dont know about you but I dont team hunt anything that deals low damage so EHP is kind of important, the only time I could see it being a problem is if paladins are level 500+ or even higher when they still have good HP pool to tank a hit or two without mana shield on. But then again thats back to a balancing issue you cant balance the game around people hunting spawns they out level because it screws the players hunting it at the intended level

[timber saffron]

What is ehp

[pearl raft]

ok so you are still tankier than mage, you deal more damage than mage, you make it more efficiently and it's still not enough and you complain. ok cool.

[novel tusk]

EHP = effective health pool = mana + hp

how are we tankier than a mage wiggy? our ehp is much lower with the spell active, we do not deal more damage than a mage unless we proc double hit assuming we dont miss our arrows, still deal no AOE damage, supplies are more expensive, so where is the more effeciency coming in?

[timber saffron]

What lvl archers are u doctor

[novel tusk]

also nobody is complaining im simply voicing the stuff i FEEL as if i feel is weird/annoying which is the entire point of a feedback channel so lets not be a dick about my comments, thanks

im level 260

fully attributed arbalest, angelic helm, magic plate legs, golden quiver, quicksand boots, watcher armor

[timber saffron]

Archer is terrible until u have sheol done, up until that point you should be gfb hunting. After sheol is done u will do more dmg then mage single target ( teamhunt only, not solo)

[novel tusk]

right but once again, why are we balancing the game for people that are hunting spawns they out level / the 5% of the entire player base

[pearl raft]

spell removes 40% of your hp pool which means you have more hp than mages. you deal more single target damage than mages and cheaper I dont know how can you even debate that. You want to compare aoe damage now? thats the last thing paladin is not dominating at you want that changed too?

[novel tusk]

stop

before you type

do you know what EHP is

[pearl raft]

I dont need to know what is your ehp.

[novel tusk]

i want you to add the hp and mana of a mage level 300 and then add the hp and mana of a paladin level 300 with arcane marksmanship active

now i want you to tell me how a paladins 2k hp with the spell on is going to do anything without manashieled

[pearl raft]

thread: paladin deals too much damage with new spell enabled, paladin is too efficient considering he deals top damage at the same time.

[pearl raft]

somehow mages dont use mana shield and live. I think you could too

[novel tusk]

yeah mages def dont use manashield at church unless you OUTLEVEL THE CONTENT which is the entire point im making here get it through your skull not everybody is level 700

sure if im a 700 rp ill hunt churhc without manashield but what level range is that content for?

stop twisting my comment to fit your agenda and read what im typing

[pearl raft]

what stops you from doing church on lvl 400 without mana shield

[novel tusk]

idk what my hp would be at 400 with spell

a little over 2.8k maybe? idk still 1 shot

[pearl raft]

???

[novel tusk]

at level 260 i have 1.7k hp with spell on

and 3.8k mana

[pearl raft]

so use mana shield if you really, truly need it

[novel tusk]

holy shit youre a dense person XD

[pearl raft]

you are using some stupid personal argument

check your density bro

[novel tusk]

how is numbers personal?

[pearl raft]

you are bringing my lvl into discussion like some ape

and I was low lvl like you too

[novel tusk]

im using numbers youre acting like "youre just not skilled enough to not use manashield"

im talking numbers youre not

oh you were low level when this update was implemented? funy

[pearl raft]

yes I did church on lvl 400

[novel tusk]

oh so you had arcane marskmanship at level 400?

[pearl raft]

mage without mana shield

[ripe mural]

just hunt with mana shield and disable spell after retarget

[pearl raft]

if you use this spell you are still tankier than mage lvl 400

[novel tusk]

wrong

[ripe mural]

also it is pretty impossible for monster to retarget because of how exeta works

[pearl raft]

rakshy im assuming blocker is bad and doesnt exeta

and its still no risk of dying

[novel tusk]

ok, again if your ek isnt level 600 you cant just spam exeta if youre playing the content for the level intended without risk of getting 1 shot

[pearl raft]

thats why im asuming blocker doesnt exeta

[willow shard]

The only thing Archers need is 100% hit rating because it's just frustrating to miss, specifically low level monsters. Eldrin can lower our average hit to compensate for the hit rating, I would really not mind. Archers are in a good state, they are now competitive in single target hunts and they just recently got buffed for solo hunting aswell with more arrow damage. /thread

[pearl raft]

^ this should be done too

[pearl raft]

again using personal arguments, veri dense

you are tankier than mage stop bending reality

[novel tusk]

what is personal about saying i dont have a level 600 ek blocking again 600 ek = more hp than a 300 ek = cant spam inatio

again, im using numbers, youre using your peanut brain to not read and just type

[pearl raft]

so dont use inatio if thats gonna kill you

other players dont die while casting inatio

[novel tusk]

yeah on a level 600 they wouldnt because they outlevel the content by double

[pearl raft]

on the planet I live lvl 400 is intended lvl for church

[novel tusk]

nah lol

300-400

[pearl raft]

are you playing hrate server by any chance?

[novel tusk]

yes like most people

[pearl raft]

so why are you in this thread

[novel tusk]

because most players play on high rate servers

[pearl raft]

okay but game is not balanced around high rates

[novel tusk]

clearly its not balanced around the correct levels hunting spawns either

[pearl raft]

I dont even remember what are you arguing about. if you want to do church on lowlvl you can still do it by simply using mana shield

you are still tankier than mages so your complaint is weird.

[novel tusk]

its not about church

[pearl raft]

it's just example

you are still in much better position than mages and idk why would you ask for more survivability while using the spell that is supposed to lower it

[novel tusk]

youre fixating on certain points im making and not taking the time to read and comprehend what i actually said

[pearl raft]

I read your main post is there some other valuable information from you that I missed?

[novel tusk]

youre taking one simple thing and twisting and turning it to fit your agenda, its really simple

hp + mana = EHP

300 rp - 300 mage = mage has more EHP

yes or no

[pearl raft]

yes if you add some numbers one number is bigger than the other

[novel tusk]

ok so

mages are tankier than rps at lower levels when they have the spell active = i personally think thats a problem that was my entire point

[pearl raft]

im wasting my time here

delete this discussion

[novel tusk]

me too apparently because if youre not level 600 opinion doesnt matter apparently sorry i dont have 4k hp with 40% reduced hp

or 5 years worth of wealth built up to buy the expensive ammo from abusing past things like burst arrows etc

[pearl raft]

keep coping

that will fix your problems

[novel tusk]

coping

says the level 700 crying

XD

[ripe mural]

That’s just not true we can’t help you if you think it is

[novel tusk]

name:Rakshy position:Player sex:Male profession:Arch Druid level:481

name:Zardoc position:Player sex:Female profession:Arch Druid level:643

what level range do you consider low level? i dont consider either of your levels low level.

[molten shore]

bro i honestly think is time to stop... leave RPs as they are, they don't need more, just remove the chance of miss hits, everything is gonna be fine after that, focus on gain lvls and u will see how everything improves

[novel tusk]

ive owned 500+ rps i know how they are played at higher level

[molten shore]

that's good to know bro, good job

[novel tusk]

my arguement isnt for "higher levels"

[molten shore]

oh i know, every RP argument is comparing theirselves with Mages/Druids no need to explain, the thing is u are not a mage/druid bro, u are an Archer, and u need to understand that

[novel tusk]

lol

[scarlet dust]

UE for archers when?

[glad condor]

close this thread

[raw copper]

EHP is big bullshit thanks

paladins dont use mana to anything, even on odyssey my royal backpack on aividem or church who yes do more damage than anybody else dont even remember to eat food or use purity ring because unless something retarget he is always full hp/mana

[polar sage]

Its true if u just think of th with mana shield

[raw copper]

seriously? like you are considering that mages and druids which may have a highest number summing up hp and mana are running around spawns with full mana?

cuz paladins are

not to mention that most of this number is mana, which is not as easy to refill up when shit happens

while you can just toggle off the spell, pump one potion, incuro vita and have ur hp back

[deft cobalt]

That's because once our mana becomes part of our hp pool (mana shield) we don't have an active spell to use beside haste which is really cheap. We can make ammo at full mana that's about it. Could use camouflage but knights usually spamming inatio. Make ammo and lower the cost of the hunt a little till an active ability comes out (if ever) 😅

'EHP' for tankyness? We talking just one combo right?

[raw copper]

if you are hunting something that can one shoot your whole mana and hp while using the spell probably shouldnt use the spell

i mean, are we not taking into account of how much easier is to refill HP and greater amount of it comes from life instead of mana like mages/druids?

[deft cobalt]

'EHP' Lacks a lot besides being able to account for being combo'd. Mages have the highest total, in reality knights are the tanks for their hp pool, archers are off tanks without spell, squish dps with. Mages can survive some larger hits that an active marksman archer couldnt but just turn the spell off . Mages cant sustain tanking; exception being druid with purification if within heal threshold to maintain, blah blah. That's about it.

Pretty much, unless there is going to be an active spell; like an attack spell or something that can benefit a hunt, add some conjure spells for remaining ammo that can be bought from stores and call it.

[primal dew]

These threads became deluded, few weeks ago i suggested closing them, now its too late good luck Eldrin

[potent shore]

My knight has finished church, and it's now lvl 326. The argument of needing high level to exeta in church is invalid. Don't even need a druid to do it there. Just gotta top yourself up before big hits, mostly just from sentinels.

[raw copper]

We finished aividem on odyssey with main ek being 330 with no prior gear since no one had done it before.

Those hotkey guys are lazy enough to hold uh key

[visual geyser]

Can we buff druids? XD

Please 😊

[dusky solar]

...ehp!

[tired mantle]

I have a perfect idea for a new attribute for druids. When you're below 5% of your maximum health, healing spells on you are 10% stronger.

[fluid charm]

5% in a druid level 100 its like 35 hp xd

[elder locust]

i dont feel archers are that terrible anymore. but they still lack in solo dmg. thats why we need something like marksmanship for solo hunts or just new ammunition. when im hunting i can compare to similar lvl druid with 50% of my dex as int i got 132 now at lvl 260. and the druid hunts the same spots same lvl doing more exp or more profit because he needs 1 round less to kill the monsters. and thats feels fucking disgusting. the more hp pool doesnt mean nothing if it cant be of any use somewhere. like a spot i can do similar profit or exp than druids on same lvl. and then 50 lvl later druids hunt that spot anyways xD

[elder locust]

if ranger so dominando why you stick playing druid`? the cost of dealing dmg in teamhunt is the same for mage and ranger btw

[elder locust]

must be the reason your still playing the druid 😉

[bitter geode]

Tibia player, serenity, you are the truth

[pearl raft]

close the thread before it lays eggs

[elder locust]

his point is valid still i dont really feel like the ehp pool is too low. maybe 30% reduction instead of 40% but then probally you can make some shit op stuff xD
but ranger has more single target dps and has lower pool than mages so i dont see much problems there.

[elder locust]

you hunt church lvl 400 mage and solo sentinals and icons?

[elder locust]

wrong. ehp is lower then mage. thus you die earlier

[bitter geode]

@pearl raft responde

[elder locust]

hmm my eks are underleveld so far and manage to exeta in time. yee if its bad i loose all my mana and we need to wait a bit till i can fill it up. but i like it being squishy and have a chance of dieing 🙂 anyways there is the ranger spell that 99% of time saves you unless you get manadrained in 1 shot shot

[elder locust]

they are not really competitive in single target hunts 1-250 at least. druids are just op at that point 😉 but it got a lot better. whats really annoying is the miss chance

[elder locust]

with spell active mage is tankier

mage 600 ehp = 21000
ranger 600 ehp = 12600
oh yes ranger with 12600 ehp is tankiers...

[elder locust]

so the game should be balanced for 33% of the players?

[elder locust]

where is your logic here? feels like your totally emotional

[fluid charm]

merge all vocation feedbacks into Druid feedback channel

the only voc that needs buff

[elder locust]

low lvl ranger 100% is the weakest class 😉

[fluid charm]

not the weakest, the most boring

[elder locust]

maybe its about time to nerf ue and waves for mages. so they feel what it is to be the weakest class. i played ranger from 1-550 when it was the weakest class... ranger is totally fine now in teamhunts, might be even too stronk. but he is not solo

[fluid charm]

until you get level 300+

[ripe mural]

Also you forgot to add ranger has a spell which makes monsters to lose aggro.

[elder locust]

druids are fucking awesome. i just played one from 1-270. they are stronk as fuck

[elder locust]

i didnt even had that till lvl 500 ye. i dont get this whole ehp pool is too low thing considering spell saves you if you dont loose mana in 1 shot

[elder locust]

it is the weakest. the druid im comparing with always makes more exp then me on same lvl. how comes..?

[fluid charm]

but dies 10x more

xd

[elder locust]

he doesnt die more often. he knows how to play

[ripe mural]

It is not up to devs if you decide to skip certain aspects of the game like finishing a quest line to obtain a spell or ask a knight to use proper spells while hunting some creatures.

If you are able to lose whole mana then I don’t think 10 or 20% ho more would help you either .

[sage wagon]

from a high level perspective, the RP's put the spell on and have mana shield...they function just like mages.
Sure, they do die faster if i dont taunt stuff off...but thats a temporary thing.

When RP has no mana, they put spell off and recover.
When mage has no mana, hunt must wait till mana is recoverd.

The spawns where mages can run without mana shield, the RP can run with spell and no mana shield. At that point both recover the hits with just a single heal.

It feels like its working as intended...at least level 450+

[elder locust]

yeee. what about solo hunting?

[sage wagon]

the spell is meant to bring relevance to RP in team hunts...
so what about solo hunting?

[elder locust]

ye how is solo hunting for you compared to mages

[sage wagon]

i dont know, im a knight

there's a different feedback channel for that, and as evidenced by the latest posts the entire concept of spell doesnt work for us
Thats ok though, you dont play tank to do dmg. You do it to team hunt

[elder locust]

eks should be able to solo hunt as decent as every other vocation

[sage wagon]

ofcourse not, to get exp you need to deal damage
If the tank has the same dps as the damage dealers...its not a tank

The only things knights can do, is 3x3 explo things others cant...and get efficiency out of things that way
But this usually gets broken at extremely high levels (druids) because they can start doing the same

Again, wrong thread so ill stop responding now...but classes arent meant to be the same. So you shouldnt be comparing yourself to others and trying to fill the lacking things you have
There are strong points to RP aswell, its about using those.
RP's can solo so many spawns, that others cannot or much much later
RP's can off-tank things like church, and still hold the ability to sd.
This comes with levels, to gain that flexibility, and those are strenghts that nobody else has

[elder locust]

same as rangers more dmg for less max hp or more dmg taken. thats whats they are doing with the bloodstance

[elder locust]

the solo argument is invalid. the more hp is barely of any use

[sage wagon]

RP solo aividem 2.0, your arguement is invalid

[polar sage]

I think the only conclusion from this disscussion is we need to delete @haughty wigeon

[pure warren]

I really don't know where you get those conclusions about RP solo man 😄 I am 310 pally so far I soloed most of the content. Some shit I soloed no other class could. For example ashlords. Gl doing it solo on 280 mage without dying 😉 I also done some of the blasphemers task solo, on mage below 300 it's impossible. Also done priests of light and whole grim faction around 200. Goodluck with that too. Possible ofc but highly risky

[odd canopy]

Noob archer question: what is the actual atk power of heavy ammunition without spell active

[deft cobalt]

Same as hunting* arrow/bolt I believe

[haughty wigeon]

[gentle hawk]

all your problems with the archer vocation is user problems. archers are strong as hell, both solo and on teamhunts on pretty much all level stages.

[fluid charm]

problem between chair and screen

[molten shore]

i think the problem is....

[bitter geode]

Learn more

[fluid charm]

vocation scroll change for 1000 mc would sell like hot bread

[raw copper]

Yea sure skip 0-250 of mage druid life and then switch. Awesome, please 50k mc cost for those lazy whales fund the game

[polar sage]

no need for that if there is char bazar

[odd canopy]

Not really... I started an archer in serenity with that idea as well, but discovered that archer is pretty weak in solo hunt until lvl 150 (rune and bolt damage). On the other hand, it's pretty much impossible to die, survivability is very decent. Also, I cannot say I ever wasted on any hunt.

Btw, another noob archer question: does anyone know if the new melee damage formula also applies for archers?

[primal dew]

Wow long time I did not had a eye sting from cringe. Good job guys.

[fluid charm]

where

[polar sage]

[near jolt]

Remove miss chance adjust damage accordingly and close the thread

[elder locust]

where is your argumentation herE?

its funny how few people are here that actually discurss stuff and give some valid arguments.
probally those people that switch instantly to archer if his solo gets stronger than mage/druid

its abou vocation balancing nothing more

[elder locust]

just remove it . no need for dmg modification
i wish some higher lvl archer would say how they feel about solo hunting

[glad condor]

keep coming with ideas guys

[near jolt]

Well it seems sometimes players can’t ever just get nice things we want and ask for without some sort of trade-off so I figured this is fair

[gentle hawk]

my point is u make no valid arguments, ur statements about gameplay are wrong

[hollow goblet]

high lvl archers are solo hunting the hardest monsters atm

[elder locust]

archers solo hunted all befor.
where is the point?
whats the exp/h profit/h compared to similar lvled mage druid

[ebon prairie]

well 1.5 month after changes mage/archer/druid/knight, and archers still crying for something? ;p

[elder locust]

where is the cry? why no one comes up with comparisions?
atm i feel like im too stronk in team hunts and thats needs to be nerfed slighty

so give me some arguments why that is cry based on some numbers

im lvl 265 and cant event 3 shot priests of light which a druid hunted on lvl 220 with same exp

[ebon prairie]

;o first time i meet palladin who using brain, i dont know what to say

[elder locust]

still no arguments just brabbling.

feels like druids still the stronger archers kinda...

[ebon prairie]

yep, thats true. Archers is kinda strong, Unfortunately, not many people see it.

Palladins crying everytime for more dmg etc, and at the same time playing paladin all the time so they like it.

If u feel you are to stronk be happy and just play ;p

[elder locust]

can you give arguments? you just say something without any proof
from start to 265
druids is better at
manticore, serpentine, demons, priest of light, dark grims
using at least 1 round less to kill on way lower lvl like 30-50 lvl lower

[delicate flower]

220 druid have 1,3k hp and solo exp with 3 priest of light, you know what is a still risk ? this druid can died by one shot...

[ebon prairie]

u need arguments? on test server 600 royal palladin shot in dummy:

double shot xbow + sd = 4200~ dmg

do u have any more question about "palladin is weak" ?
Palladin already is best single target proffesion+ have more hp and ms/ed, lets say 330 rp = 3300~ hp without items = dmg single target OP
330 ms = 1800~ hp = sorc in teamhunts best profession but easy to die

[elder locust]

too bad the best exp place never has 3 priests coming at you

[elder locust]

give me real examples of spawns hunted at what lvl and compare it with others

nerf archers hp by 20% and give him 20% more dmg i dont care i dont need that hp at all 😉

[elder locust]

+double shot xbow is how often? solo hunting archer still has the weakest dmg output if my calculations are correct on lvl 600 they do 500 less dmg per turn on average

[near jolt]

We are happy and just playing.. archers are just asking that we don’t do 0 dmg with 130+ distance at lvl 400+ with bis equipment… is that too much to ask?? If you can’t read just say that

Imagine if mages could miss with burst omg discord would flood with tears

[elder locust]

archers dmgs is not reliable too with fast hands. that sucks in my opinion. while mages like always 4 shot a monster archers sometimes need 5 or sometimes fast hands triggers but doesnt reduce it to 3 shots so its completly useless

[ebon prairie]

if u want nerf hp and get dmg, create sorcerer or druid, and we back to talk 😄

about spawns hunted, you playing palladin who is "best single target dmg" and u compare typical magic profesion - MAGE who sould deal 100% dmg and being paper, vs best single target - semi tank

ofc mage will always do more exp per hour than you ;o

[timber saffron]

oh

[elder locust]

i compare to druid if you can read which can tank everything that doesnt 1shot them. + i ignore you as you dotn give arguments. all you do is blablabla. go ahead make calculations please. currently i dont know of spawns only hunted by archers

[ebon prairie]

@near jolt when u created palladin i did not know about that "palladin can miss bolt" ?
i dont get it why u crying, some months/years ago sorcerer could miss burst too we had dmg from 0 to X dmg, even though I knew it, I did this profession, no reason to cry lol

[delicate flower]

xD

[elder locust]

btw i made a poll comparison of the amount of cap per lvl and supplies mage and archer can take into a hunt and wanted to get mages 5more oz per lvl but it got downvoted as fuck ^^

[ebon prairie]

@elder locust you compare druid who can tanky everything if dont die at one shot, on but druid cant tanky many monsters like you, lets say druid have 1800 hp = 330 lvl
palladin have 3300~ hp on 330 lvl

330 lvl druid can tanky 3 dark grims? up/down easy ONE SHOT

you can tanky 3 dark grims at 200 lvl without problems

this is exactly what playing a paladin looks like, u going better spawns early, and u dont need have hands for playing this profesion

[elder locust]

another thing to talk about why archer knights have to pay 150mc per month for skill training while mages just burn like what 25?

[ebon prairie]

@elder locust u start crying about dmg, u dont have any arguments so u stick to weight / cap ? seriously? u dont have any better ideas?

u have 250 lvl, when u start playing lets say 100/150 lvl Haven't you seen what to expect from this game? are u suprised or what

[gloomy jay]

??? You said mage to magic lvl up burn 25? MF , ROH, Skill boost ?

How you calculate 25 mc XD

[ebon prairie]

25 mc u say yes? ok explain me that:
couple days ago i had 110 mlvl, i started 2-3 hours per day mlvl up
i wasted around 600 cc for mana fluids + around 20 hours boost for get 111 mlvl

and u know what? i get 13 dmg on sd rune for waste 600 cc + 35 medivia coins

WAS WORTH ?

[timber saffron]

just get sheol bow and u can kill priest of light in 4 hmms

[ebon prairie]

• i must using this fucking mana fluids every 10 seconds, u just buy scroll dummy and going afk, turn back once per 30 minutes ^^

[timber saffron]

your dreamw ill come true

[elder locust]

and i tank 3 dark grims make 0 exp while druids goes and make 20%+ more exp somewhere else. there is no point for more hp if you cant benefit from it

[gloomy jay]

You are drunk? i think you wanna get 15hp/cap per lvl more and taht will be fine with paladin XD

[elder locust]

afk training with just using rings

[ebon prairie]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[delicate flower]

ok when go train m lvl with your proposition maybe in 5 years you can have 100 m lvl

[gloomy jay]

Btw trainging mage is not cost, you can use only food. Take the fishing rod and mage dream will be true

[timber saffron]

mage training is busted as fuck with skill boost cmon bruh

[gloomy jay]

But he try to said its small cost XD

and if you wanna go on gargoyle your skill boosting still will not cost

[elder locust]

just make skill boost 1h cost 25mc+ and they understand

[elder locust]

think archers cant do that at least last time i tested at 110 they break xd

[gloomy jay]

Go training on friend.

And that will not break

You cant look only in one way, must be more creative

[ebon prairie]

@elder locust

110 mlvl -> 111 mlvl with boost skill =
3 177 187 mana
1 bp manas = 8000 mana = +- 3.5 minute
3 177 187 / 8000 = 400 bp manas
400 x 3,5 minutes = 23.5~ hours training - ALL THE TIME

on rings u say: 954 mana per 8 minutes
3 177 187 / 954 + food lets say 500 mana
= 3 177 187 / 1450 = 292 hours training = 12.2 day 24/7 online

good luck training mlvl on rings and food xDDDD

[elder locust]

please remove skill boost for mages or make it 10x expensive and then speak again

[gloomy jay]

but skill boost its for everyone. i use that on knight every day

[ebon prairie]

its mean u can also use skill boost, im right?

[gloomy jay]

Why you think its only mage abbuse

[timber saffron]

cause knights last 1h

mages an entire day

depending on lvl

[elder locust]

btw you didnt waste 600c because you get runes in return. where is that wasted then?

[ebon prairie]

ok let me count that for you. 1 minute

[near jolt]

This guy is troll don’t feed him

[gloomy jay]

Who

?

[near jolt]

The guy that came in to say archers are crying about damage when he can’t read

[elder locust]

you dont need to count that i played a druid i used boots on him with small vials and just with afk using rop and its fucking insane op. i use not more then 50mc a month and get mlvl 100 befor reaching lvl 250 doing all except sds on my own.

[near jolt]

I’ll bump this and you can stop typing

[ebon prairie]

small explosive rune = 960 mana = 40 use
1 bp small explosive = 40 use x 50 spells = 2000 = 48 000 mana
48 000 mana / 8000 = 6 bp mana fluids x 17k = 102k
400 bp manas x 10.2cc = 408cc

so im wasted +- 8cc + 35 mc for 1 mlvl up and get 13 dmg + 24 hours spam mana fluids on myself

where u can use dummy and just stay afk.

[elder locust]

just remove it no need to nerf dmg XD

[ebon prairie]

nobody says something about nerf dmg, i just saying rp is best single target profesion right now + have more hp than ms/druid so should be easy gameplay

[near jolt]

Imagine if pallys got this kind of huge buff?!?! People like manesik would type more walls of text about op archer profession

[elder locust]

and need to waste 150mc for 1 skill lvl at dunno what mlvl 110 compares to at high rate maybe distance 130? for like 5 dgm more?^^

[ebon prairie]

if u say ms/ed is so OP why u have 250 rp ? at 100 lvl u should change profession, why u didnt do that?

gameplay is to hard? low HP = easy combo = easy die ?

or what

[elder locust]

i played ranger from 1-550 when it was the weakest class

[ebon prairie]

so after changes profesions, where RP get boost dmg, ms/ed get boost dmg, knight - im not sure

u start crying ?

since you were lvl 550 then you should know everything about this class so why are you crying instead of playing the game like a human

[elder locust]

the update made me play ranger again cuz i thought hmm seeems like hes better now. in fact he is but solo is still not good and now id rather have a druid

[timber saffron]

https://tenor.com/view/thriller-michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-watching-gif-5577709

[ebon prairie]

if from lvl 1-550 you were not satisfied with the gameplay with this paladin, then why the fuck did you make a second paladin?

xDDD

maybe its time for change, u had 550 rp - enough for you

[delicate flower]

you played rp 1-550 and make another rp 265, when rp its a weakness class ? logic, masochist ?

[ebon prairie]

create druid or ms and start crying:
"MORE HP AND DMG FOR MS/DRUID"
"MORE CAP FOR MAGES"

xD

[elder locust]

never cried as druid its just op class. i not crying now. im giving valid points to vocation balancing

[ebon prairie]

ye OP class ?

why u didnt choose druid then

[near jolt]

You play druid ?

[ebon prairie]

im playing sorc

[elder locust]

its just the same people not playing archer saying archer is too stronk because they fear of their vocation becoming the weaker class and then they switch 100%. always the same cry

[ebon prairie]

@elder locust u said druid is OP, explain me this then:

i am 330 ms
my friend = 260 knight
my second friend = 250 druid

when we going teamhunt all together with exp boost we made real exp 4kk per hour

knight+me (sorc) = 4.5kk per hour

knight+druid = 3.5kk per hour

????????????????????? druid OP ?

from proposing changes i proposed only one thing,
600 ms = 2400 dmg sd
600 rp = 2000 dmg sd

i proposed change dmg from SD to palladin, because was too little difference between a heart and a paladin - in my opinion because 600 ms = 2500~ hp / 600 rp = 6000 hp = semi tanky + ALMOST the same dmg like ms

ofc this ^ was before all changes.

except this im good about ms, i got waves/ue/low hp/ good dmg

in every fucking game / mmo / diffrents shit - MAGE doing always best dmg in game in couple monsters, this is just rule lets say, if u think druid is OP because have purification, change class and lets back to talk when u get 250 lvl on druid.

im done, do whatever u want with this - Gl dude

[elder locust]

wonder when you realize im always talking about solo hunting not team hunting when mages nerf?

[near jolt]

Good archer related discussion

[elder locust]

got lvl 270 on druid feels op as fuck

[elder locust]

before update mages did easily 600+ more average dmg per turn now i think its a bit less? lieks 500~ not sure about it

[hollow goblet]

World and name?

[molten shore]

Classic RP thread some things never change xD

never is enough for them, even if Eldrin comes here and give UE + purification + 10k more HP i'm completely but COMPLETELY SURE they'd find something to complain about 🤣

it is what it is, like an Archer feature or something

[icy kraken]

eldrin please nuke this thread

or all the vocation feedbacks

the amount of radioactive brain-rotting cancer emanating from them is unhealthy, to put it mildly

[lyric junco]

Nerf rp 20 % pls

so they can actually cry about something

my boy stop luring just mad because hes a solo player guys im sorry for my boy

[molten shore]

well he have the best vocation to be a solo player... i want to see him climb with a Mage/Druid/EK as solo...

[timber saffron]

Fix hitrate, add conjure piercing arrow

[haughty wigeon]

just close this thread

[ripe mural]

Close all vocation threads, 2 vocations were lately deeply changed, now it’s time to focus on other things

[red citrus]

Agree close them

[fluid charm]

https://tenor.com/view/lmao-spit-take-cracking-up-haha-so-funny-omg-gif-17921247

[pearl raft]

nerf new spell, fix hitchance, add conjure piercing ammo spells.

[sage wagon]

• 3kk exp per kill, because any other vocation solo will die
  Had a MS try it on mana shield, ran out of mana before he could kill it

This is where that hp comes in handy, getting 6k dmg on range means RP can survive ánd deal dmg

Knight cant solo exp there, because dmg is lower and the combo in melee range is higher (and it does mechanics)

And its like that on every single spawn.
A RP can always solo hunt it first, and it takes 20-30% more levels before a druid or mage can make it

On a level 100, thats not that much...but once you start getting to level 400 the additional levels needed means the RP has already moved on to the next spawn

[elder locust]

classic mage crying when other voc is catching up and get balanced.
which theyed nerf mage sd dmg because he has ue and waves alrdy and after we talk again

[elder locust]

new spell seems slighty too good.

[elder locust]

wish people would give some real arguments here.
i say from 1-267 rp is far behind the druid solo hunting. still not able to 3 shot priets of light what druid does on lvl 220?

all i hear is crying from other vocations that fear they are note the op class anymore(mages).

[elder locust]

its easier as druid to climb. so sad that no high lvl archer give feedback

[elder locust]

nerf gruid dmg its supposed to be healing/support class. mister hunting solo all day top druid lal

[hollow goblet]

Low lvl mages do to much dmg after this change but that’s a high rate problem vocations are balanced on higher lvls

[elder locust]

so rangers only weak till sheol done ^^. that could be balanced around items

[tawdry raft]

what about spell from holy rose? will be some changes for us to use on solo hunts? not everyone has a team to spend time with

[tawny quiver]

not everyone wants to have a team..

[elder locust]

all vocations should be able to solo hunt

[elder locust]

befor update ranger was weak as fuck. whats the point to solo hunt spawns first when you do less exp less profit than other vocations on other spawns?

[gentle hawk]

please ban stop luring and close this thread, he won‘t ever stop demanding same dps as druids even though he has 50% more hp and the thought that vocation balance is more than dps wont cross his mind either, this permanent 50 iq barely 5 braincells bs is honestly annoying at this point

[icy kraken]

stop nerfing <whatever>, PLEASE BUFF <whatever>

https://tenor.com/view/crying-gif-19237791

[elder locust]

yee vocation balance is not only dmg when druid in all stages does just more exp and profit. thats totally balanced then?^^ and where are you arguments. i wish people would give some solid comparision instead of just saying hey you got more hp and thats it.
where are the numbers what spawns archers hunt on what lvls with more exp,more profit then druids can do on the same levels ???
oh wait is there even 1 spawn?

• to instantly toogle marksmanship seems to be too op.
  there is no drawback then. if you mess up you just toggle it off and heal and be safe + you alrdy got a really good spell to dodge. while mages cant do that, yet we got more dps with it then mages.
  thus i suggest to make it have a cooldown once you turn it off you need x minutes befor you can activate it again. that way if you mess up you have some drawbacks.
• maybe even rework camounflage spell? maybe make it not be used when in marksmanship.
  any feedback here from other players?

[ripe mural]

camouflage would be 100% fine but ppl says it not always works

[willow shard]

https://wiki.mediviastats.info/Camouflage

I updated info about this spell on wiki. I'm 99% sure that this is how it works and that it's no longer bugged. You just need to be aware of the things mentioned on the wiki page. I wish the spell worked differently.

[fast oriole]

I think there are some interesting points made here by everyone. The red thread is that solo hunting and team hunting BOTH are super fun elements of the game. We all want it. When either of the two is not possible or less so, it takes away potential joy of the game.

I think it would be useful to look at each vocation separately to see whether there are some elements missing that hinder team hunts and/or solo hunts, and improve them. I don't think that over comparing vocations and vocation bashing is the way to go for this exercise.

I enjoy archer because indeed it is a fun vocation to solo hunt on, it works well. I like how the update made weapon damage more relevant, you feel more an like an archer and less solely dependent on dps from your runes.

I used to dislike archer quite a bit because I often times could not join a team hunt (or was less of interest) simply because I was an archer, because a sorc or druid was sought after instead. The update now changed that, which for me definitely increases the joy of playing medivia a lot.

For archer I think the update is really a succes, I enjoy playing archer much more than before. The only points that still may need some tweaking are small ones (such as the 1 sqm hit chance)

[floral nest]

No need to ban him just rename to stop crying

[elder locust]

Wonder where the cry is and why all people only being personal offensive instead of comming up with arguments.
Feels like unintelligent und immature... and somehow only comes from druid and mages

[gentle hawk]

your posts have zero substance and yet you demand ours to have. you are either a troll or a legit degenerate, trying to reason with you is a waste of time no offence.

[lyric junco]

@gentle hawk hes just trolling, hes the top rp on serenity, and not using any xp boost, while saying to everyone why xp boost is a waste of money

[primal dew]

I could tell you a guess on why nobody is answering you substantially. Firstly and lastly your high rate POV is clearly wrong because rangers are way ahead of the other vocations in a low rate server during those levels if you put aside each vocation without P2W. This fact is what makes the problem you have brought up invalid, so perhaps you must give it another approach.

[elder locust]

lvl 220 druid needs one round less on following creatures: manticore, priest of light, dark grims
compared to lvl 260 ranger.
can add more monster to the list both can hunt.
so where is the balance there.

and im speaking about high rate lvl 1-260 nothing else

so tell me spawns on that lvls where the ranger has any advantage in exp and or profit

[elder locust]

cant speak nothing about that

[primal dew]

If I understood and read you enough, you’re comparing yourself in the level bracket of 200-300 which is a TERRIBLE level the be found on. For every vocation, although yours, is able to progress faster than others in a sustainable way without stopping for cash making or whatsoever. Just the fact that druids and mages are able to SD simulate high exp respawns with the returns and infinite gold doesn’t mean your vocation is wrong, it means that the server you play does not make sense in terms of balance.

I do hope this helps with your frustration, I cannot say anything else about it.

[lyric junco]

@primal dew

[elder locust]

so basically you say vocation is underpowered on high rate but fine on low rate? and that is because of loot?
i dont understand why this would change if you use sd on a low rate server at all. return rates would be the same
i dont have any frustation at all.
just poiting out stuff for vocation balancing

[elder locust]

wonder when you will be able to add something usefull to a discussion instead of brainless one liner every 5 year old can do.

[ripe mural]

The difference is no Druid would sd those monsters in the long term

[elder locust]

i mean ye i understand it because on low rate you cant sustain the sd waste. yet the ratio between the vocations would be the same. but on low rate that is compensated by rangers making more profit wht hmm/bolt then mages on other hunts?

[willow shard]

Fix hit chance and close this thread

[primal dew]

We do actually, now there’s consequences to that in low rate servers at least. This is why I bring up the point of high rates not being balanced at all, vocations become thoughtless and more especially mages and druids which is your concern. I am trying to clarify your concern. And FYI no, mages and druids have to stop exping and making runes or being forced to teamhunt while rangers can ammo + hmm places for medium exp and consistent profit, of course this apply to a low rate scenario and a f2p gameplay which is where the game is balanced on.

[elder locust]

understood.
yet min 50% play high rate servers or?
so if im correct that ranger lacks dmg there it could be easily countered with a new ammunition that has more dmg just for high rate servers, or?
i mean we got light rope on non pvp servers only

[hollow goblet]

didnt it get fixed today?

[elder locust]

hit chance was fixed with last update and it feels a lot better now

[primal dew]

Well truth be told is that perhaps a ranger of your level wouldn’t be able to sustain piercing arrow usage, but that I am not sure about. So that’s the ammunition you asking for. What I can tell you is that in the level you’re at you’re still too weak to jump onto the next stages but yet too strong to hunt the ones you’re supposed to, thats in low rates ofc and my knowledge might be limited about this, I can suggest you to talk to a ranger player, last time I leveled a f2p ranger to 200 was simply to experience the vocation path, and that was very long ago too.

[willow shard]

Corrected maximum hit chance of piercing arrow and piercing bolts from 90% to 95%.
all I can see in patch notes. I'm not using piercing ammo I use hunting arrows on lvl 417, it's too expensive for what little bonus it gives to damage. I'm talking about addressing hit chance in melee range

[deft cobalt]

Nothing like having a red hp shit mob beside you and missing 5 rounds 😅

[timber saffron]

No more fucking misses for god sake

Cap it at 100 110 120 dist orsometbinf

And then close this bs thread

[gentle hawk]

hit chance is a tool to percentually decrease ballistic damage in close combat. could just change it from x % miss chance to x % damage reduction, problem solved, no poffs and no dmg buff for archers either.

[elder locust]

so if ranger would have issues on low rate servers would you close the thread?
it doesnt hit you do you dont care??? is it like that?

[timber saffron]

I'm on low rate, stop propaganda sirr

We are MORE then fine, if just this hit chance get fixed

And conjure piercing ammunition obviously

[elder locust]

and im talking about a high rate issue sir

[timber saffron]

What is your issue?

[elder locust]

so your just random talking without even reading anything. what a sign of attitude
could show that same attitude towards low rate.
hit rate is fine. so easy to get 130+ distance.
but im more towards understanding points of view and come to a solution

[near jolt]

Hit rate is not fine and has nothing to do with getting 130+ distance because people still miss quite a bit with bis eq, 130+ dist and lvl 500+

I’m really not even sure what you’re trying to argue anymore. Majority of archers who have been involved in this thread since the beginning are fine with everything besides miss chance and conjuring piercing arrow. Everything else has been solved and many archers of all lvls and from all servers are satisfied at this point. The thread was created to give archers a solution to team hunting and not even solo hunting… Nothing else needs to be said

[elder locust]

can only speak of my own experience so far. maybe it changes once im higher level or have sheol done, dont know yet.
i dont feel the misses at 1 sqm that much anymore. what distances to hit 95%? 150+?

[novel tusk]

but why should you have to play the game for 100000 hours to get one weapon that "unlocks" the vocation, that seems dumb imo....

[elder locust]

yee it feels dumb. but its just a high rate issue it seems xD
but since i dont read anything else here seems like after sheol archers are fine so ill see 🙂

[near jolt]

I’m not finished Sheol and archer still seems good. Obviously it’s just a nice bonus power spike when you finished the hardest and most time consuming quest in the game

[pure warren]

Yeah me too. We usually hunt ek + 2/3 archers and it goes super quick. We can hunt almost anything at the setup. Knight is 380ish pallys are 300-375

[polar sage]

Yea failed me few times

[elder locust]

did you compare to what druids do on similar lvl range?
then i feel really weak ^^ and i got fucking best gear for my lvl

[elder locust]

wiki has up to date how it works maybe thats why?

[polar sage]

perhaps i cant recall what exactly happend every time, i know about the body block shit but other then that it didnt work even when my blocker was on screen and all the monsters were on screen so i belive its not the reason in some of the times

[near jolt]

I don’t know but I’m sure they do similar/bit more single target damage when solo hunting, but it’s also harder for them to hunt some stuff that archer can hunt solo. Plus archers do more damage than Druids in team hunts with new spell. If you keep comparing every micro detail of your vocation to every other vocation then you will never be happy. Archer is in a good spot, just play and enjoy or make/buy new char

[elder locust]

The issue is many archers are archers because they like playing solo and now playing archer with pt vs playing solo is much more efficient. I suggest to give us better solo ammunition, something between piercing and heavy ammunition. E.g boost power bolts to like 45atk and make them worth conjuring/buyable.

[icy kraken]

I SUGGEST 🙂 to close this feedback.

[elder locust]

Translator gave me wrong word 😄 I mean SUGGEST

[subtle meteor]

Last one to post wins

[haughty wigeon]

[timber saffron]

Fix hitrate to 100, add conjure piercing arrow. Remove thread

[gentle hawk]

knights make less xp/h than ms and i think it is unfair because many knight like play solo. i suggest give us new spell, like UE but it costs no mana only like 10% max hp because name me one spot lvl 250 knight more xp than mage. need UE on knight -.-.-.-

[molten shore]

https://tenor.com/view/no-disappointed-mood-excited-cat-gif-18774770

[gentle hawk]

maan why noone answer my question, only very immature comments omg why just name one spot knight more xp/h than mage -.--.- mage: demon 5 turns knight: 200 turns, dark grim ms some turns knight million turns, omg i hate how some people are just not constructive and just troll -.-.-- ps im highrate pls balance around high rate ms can sd rat profit knight?? knight need sd maybe

[molten shore]

looks like your problem is no EHP, everybody knows MSs and Druids are basically immortals because we have massive mana pool which is completely ez to refill so there u have EK problem, EKs need more mana...

[spring echo]

Does power bolts reduce targets armor like piercing and heavy?

[coarse blaze]

You are saying he needs effective Effective Hit Points?

[tawdry raft]

will be soon any statement from admins about this thread?

[ripe mural]

statement from eldrin was that he might change hitchance to 100% with lowering dmg a bit

nothing more

[faint dagger]

Bro 100% hit rating? ahahhaha you never miss a shot? come on man, with all respect, this is bullshit

How Archers are supposed to not miss a hit in a RPG game, this doesnt make ANY sense. Who you think you are? Legolas? Clint Barton? Miss bolts/arrows is totally fine. You already do a HUGE damage for a small price, I dont know why Archers are still crying to miss some shots, which seems normal in a RPG game.

[faint dagger]

Ooooh OK, im a Knight bro, welcome to our life. I want Exori to spent 30 mana only, so I can hunt spamming exori to make same XP as Paladins and Mages.

[ripe mural]

It is nice you play some RPG game bro but is medivia discord

Fix hitchance, add spell, close thread.

[faint dagger]

Medivia is a RPG game. Are you High?

Some ppl doesnt even know that medivia is a MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game), a RPG game and are giving feedbacks...Now I can see why have a lot of nonsense proposals and ppl crying about archers missing shots.

[odd canopy]

How about just removing the distance factor from the hit chance formula? Like, making it even on all distances. That would be a middle ground solution. Was there ever an explanation why 1sqm was changed to 70%? My guess is that it helps training (not killing dummies too fast), but I don't know.

[bold trail]

Leave it as it is, close thread ty

[raven violet]

Bro with 120+ skills you should basically be as skilled as Legolas

[faint dagger]

No, you dont know which skills Legolas has, if he have 300 skill, u are not even close of him 😛

[bitter geode]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-alert-geek-trendizisst-gif-15533112

[faint dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/bitch-jessie-gif-26021541

[coarse blaze]

Legolas is 2931 years old, no one in here comes close to the amount of time he has spent training his skill

[raven violet]

I dunno, have you seen the playtime of some people 😎

[glad condor]

Ok so if we mention Legolas I think we should not ignore other outstanding archers/bowmen is history of fantasy novels or fantasy worlds in general.

Katniss Everdeen (The Hunger Games): The "Girl on Fire", a razor-sharp survivor of the deadliest arenas.

Hawkeye (Marvel Universe): Clint Barton, a marksman supreme, standing tall with an answer to every threat in his quiver.

Green Arrow (DC Universe): Oliver Queen, Star City's beacon, wielding trick arrows with unwavering resolve.

Robin Hood: The legendary Sherwood outlaw, taking from the rich with unerring aim to champion the poor.

Artemis (Greek Mythology): The goddess of the hunt, wild animals, and wilderness. Revered as the divine huntress, her bow is a symbol of nature's balance, striking with precision to maintain the harmony of the wild.

Now think about it. How in hell would you even consider comparing a MEdivia ARcher to these LEGENDS? They should not be able to miss, they will hit their target every time, even shooting from 1-2-3 sqms. They are the pinnacle of archery. Why should Medivia Archer being driven by a obese 30 years old gamer be on par with them. That would be insulting to say the least.

[gentle hawk]

increase miss chance to 50% to pay respect to these legends

[near jolt]

I’d rather keep miss chance than have to read any more of this cringe from this thread. Pls close

[primal dew]

I have learned so much from this text, I am your fan now my old friend ❤️ . Close thread please vocation is positioned properly throughout the game.

[glad condor]

You don’t have to read if you don’t want to participate in this discussion. We barely scratched the surface when it comes to archer balance.

[potent smelt]

Ppl talking about logic in a fantasy game with magic fully logical all spells and so hit but not archers arrows... strange.. well in that case bind every arrow/bolt with magic (every arrow/bolt cost 1 mana in exchange for 100% hit rate)

[fluid charm]

better 100 mana

per bolt

[glad condor]

shooting ammo should drain mana for sure, how come no one suggested this before

Paladins complain that there is no use for their mana!

[gentle hawk]

paladin is ranged player, sd rune should have miss chance in melee range too

[fluid charm]

stop paladins, a vocation that was op for sooo long, continues to be op and now they have formula rework damage and crying for miss hit chance. Paladins will be paladins

even if u add ue to them, will still ask a better ue that hits holy damage etc

[near jolt]

Aren’t you the one in druid feedback asking for a 3sqm energy strike cuz you can’t last hit with your unmissable burst arrows? Druids will be Druids I guess

[fluid charm]

druids are mage mate they are not meant to be balanced, paladin is because has a big pool of hpand mana

mages dont miss shoots

[potent shore]

Missing multiple shots in a row just feels a lot worse from a gameplay point of view. If I was a paladin I'd rather do 30-40% less damage while in melee range than miss 30-40% of the time. End result of damage is around the same, but it does not feel nearly as bad.

[odd canopy]

It's very simple, they just need to remove the 70% hit chance in melee range. Make it 90-95% from any distance, problem solved. Maybe keep the lower % from very far away, cause that makes sense.

[tired mantle]

Wait, it's 70 in melee range? I'd swear it's like 40-50 xD The amount of time I missed like 4 times in a row at a fkin snake blocking my way and ultimately having to use a hmm lol

[timber saffron]

Buff archers already wtf man worst vocation in game... add conjure piercing ammunition and let us reach 100% hit rate, only after u did demonic faction and reached 120 or 130 distance

@molten shore this mage agrees with me 100% unbiased opinion

[fluid charm]

lmao dude does the same as me and confronts me cuz he cant last hit with his hmm of 400+ dmg or his sd of 1500+ damage as paladin 400
Paladins will be paladins

[timber saffron]

I mean I litteraly gotta sd last hit 509 dmg cause I'm sure I'm gonna miss it. Atkeast upcloser trying to prepare to loot it. Us archers require 100% hitrate at some point. For sure I'm gonna try jewing some hmm and missing my arrow it's absolutely insane.... I guess meta is SD simulator until it's dead but that's not viable on 1x server. Omg why hasn't anyone mentioned this Jewish finishes us plebs on 1x make??? It's the most dangerous thing in game trying to save a few bucks. Why can't we have 100% hitrate at some point to increase efficiency? Same goes for eks why do they hit 100 to 1309 but the dmg is not stable??? Tomuxh rng going on. Us eks and archers require some dependablility on our dmg???? This Is unheard of sd simulator gameplay. I am a man of numbers but I can't rely on ANY of them. A change is needed or else this vocation is DOOMED? ON BEHALF OF ALL ARCHER AND KNGITS. WE RATHER HAVE DEPENDABLE AVG DMG THEN HITTING 0 AND MAX DMG. HELLOOOOO

[near jolt]

Explain to me why a lvl 500 with bis and top skills should have to do 0 damage with the vocations main damage source in any situation

[near jolt]

And self purification is OP lol this isn’t news

[fluid charm]

"was" op

[timber saffron]

I can't it's ridiculous

[fluid charm]

nobody recall it was 10 ticks of auto heal and now is 5 ticks, yeah it is a larger amount of health that regenerates but it would never compensate to me what was old purification, ( if you had high enough magic level you didnt need this change of a higher healing tick but slower. This was all because of Sheol was going to be released i remember perfectly, and those monsters had to paralyze players therefore druids were affected by this since then last thing i recall of druid being changed it is that now small explosive runes hit less ; )

still most of players recurr to one simple argument to everything purification is soo op druids you dont talkk bla bla

only one here to blame is the system. In this case we are both incorrect as we shouldn't always try to nerf other vocations in order for ours to be decent or well balanced, this is purely developers job here
i won't say paladins dont need 100% hitchance ever again. in fact i was always in favor since reaching a high skill should be rewarded with this!
i don't think it should be easy though, the more distance the more percentage of miss hitchance will be reduced

also would like to say that devs have been not present lately on these threads i would assume they dont wanna change anything on any vocation. Like they moved on the topic...

[near jolt]

So why are you coming in this thread saying archers are crying for more damage and is so op? I really don’t care for Druids purification. I’m not in druid feedback saying it should be removed. And you take screenshots of me from a year ago saying remove purification way out of context to the actual conversation when it was just a joke. Like bro you care way too much about archers wanting to remove miss chance how does it affect you at all?? We’re not even asking for more damage, we’re even saying we’ll take less damage if it means we don’t poof on a rat in a 1sqm way lmao. If you could read you’d see what archers are asking for. Either you are just trolling in this thread or are unaware of the actual conversation. In either case it’s probably best you don’t post here anymore

[fluid charm]

"i won't say paladins dont need 100% hitchance ever again." im quoting myself

sorry was a typo

means im assuming my mistake

[near jolt]

Referring to this post

[fluid charm]

old posts mate The idea is to not recurr to nerf other vocs for ours to be well balanced or decent. This includes obviously the irony on that commentary

[elder locust]

druids do a lot more single target dmg solo hunting
its like their sd at lvl 300 on serenity is my bolt+sd

[elder locust]

but at cost of max hp drop otherwise would be too stronk. and at least price of heavy

[elder locust]

and i demand to ban you cuz you are bloating it with nonsense 0 arguments statements...

[elder locust]

please make eks miss hits and we talk again about cry

[icy kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-peepo-clown-gif-20274809

[dusky solar]

Here we go again, boy playing 1 week medivia on orsha server and starts to demand

[elder locust]

says the one playing the op vocation and wants it to be buffed when ranger was the weakest vocation ever

[elder locust]

surely you didnt understood my point lol

its funny that 95% of the people lack the ability to make arguments for a discussion

[dusky solar]

But I see your point in all threads, you have 0 knowledge, u play x3 server, you dont understand that medivia is balanced about low rate servers.

Ppl got arguments, they just ignore You

[lyric junco]

give paladins 100 % hit rate, but nerf dmg by 15 %+-

You will notice the monsters you created when the first paladin reachs dist 140-150+ lvl 800

[elder locust]

my argument was that on high rate servers lvl 1-300 solo ranger misses dmg. no one counter argumented that.
please do it.
ye balance around low rate and fuck 50% of the people playing.
easy suggestion make ammunition 75-100gp usable with new spell that makes you drop 20% max hp and allows you to use it. making ranger give 10-20% more dmg.
price makes it no viable for low rate. high rate issue fixed.

if its balanced around low rates then there is no point for me taking part in any of this here at all lol.

[lyric junco]

doing 2k-2.5k dmg with double hit chance of 30 % or 40 % with the next BIS BOW?

[elder locust]

bis whole set gives 25%. still mages on same lvl have 500 more dmg per turn?
proof me wrong give me numers that im wrong here
but im not talking about high level beyond sheol stuff here.

[lyric junco]

Paladin doing

1826 / 1313 / 1519 Combo, ofc is training dummy.

4658 COMBO

he is lvl 450 or 400 cant remmber but around 400-500

With dist over 130+

IMAGINE A LVL 800 PALADIN WITH THE SPELL ACTIVE, WILL BE WHAT?

6K OR 8K DMG? combo? on bosses?, so are WE PLAYING MEDIVIA

OR ARE WE PLAYING RL TIBIA BEFORE THE AVATARS WHEN PALADIN DID THE BEST DMG IN GAME AND WERE GETTING ALL THE SINGLE BOSSES?

PLUS NEW BIS ITEMS , PLUS NEW DEX ITEMS, MAYBE NEW CROSSBOW OR BOW DOING DOUBLE ATTACK OF 30 - 40 % IN THE FUTURE. PALADIN IS NOT BALANCED ON LVL 800+ and should be nerfed before they reach that stage.

So yeah give them 100 % hit chance, lower the Dmg.

[elder locust]

give examples of real hunting ground and real averages numbers. max combo doesnt mean a thing
see you dont even understand what i am talking about in the first place.
im talking about solo hunting and solo dmg and you come with party dmg?
probally this is outdated as its from test server
making whole argumentation about one screenshot combo is very smart

[hollow goblet]

Why are we still arguing about paladins when there is a bot pandemic on serenity

[lyric junco]

/ true

[molten shore]

w8 i was scrolling down and i read "i demand ban this guy @icy kraken".... omg nowadays ppl

[minor cloak]

Talking about lvl 800+? What a joke, go take a nap

[flat mist]

This thread is a kindergarten tutorial.

As a lot of people already said, make 100% hit chance and lower damage to compensate it.

[lyric junco]

@minor cloak yeah imagine in 1 year the first paladin reachs lvl 800 with dist 150+

less than 2 months this photo is

[pure warren]

I give you real hunt example or better see for yourself. We are currently doing aividem tasks (ultimate single target hunting zone) mostly 3 rps and ek but sometimes 1 rp is switched with druid. I guarantee you 1000% if you take 3 druids and knights, same levels as us, they will do nowhere near exp we doing.
Example from yesterday (Purity, same exp as pendulum) ek - 386, rps - 322, 360, 381. Best exp on boost - 4.9, average around 4,5. Good luck! Speak again if you beat this with 3 druids

[willow sparrow]

This. New spell turned the best and most versatile solo vocation to best single damage dealer in teamhunts also. The numbers are too high. The damage is too cheap. The penalty of 40% HP reduction means nothing when you hunt on manashield and never get hit. Further tweaks have to be applied. It is broken. Bye.

[gentle hawk]

I don't think it is broken but rangers should definitely stfu already and stop demanding more, they are in an insanely good spot rn

[icy kraken]

its ok man, despite all that hate against me i dont hold grudges, because im a mature responsible adult unlike little children like @elder locust calm down go outside and touch some grass

[molten shore]

https://tenor.com/view/well-done-jeremiah-johnson-good-gif-25626389

[pure warren]

I would say spell is just a bit too op. Tibia has much harsher penalty for sharpshooter with slow and no spell healing. That sounds more fair (even tho I wouldn't want it in Medivia). Now I just use spell ones and unless some terrible shit happens, I turn it off at the end of the hunt. No downside with good ek. And damage is insane specially with heavy bolts.

[fluid charm]

that dude is level 16 xd

[hollow goblet]

most of them are using macro tho

[minor cloak]

Imagine it is imposible to get lvl 800 in one year, do you know about lvl scaling

[elder locust]

you are talking about team hunts.
my point was solo hunting high rate lvl 1-300. do you understand that?

[elder locust]

what are you talking about?
i make arguments and discussion when most people just being personal offensive. and whats all this bs about calm down has to do with a discussion.
funny how no one understand my statement was a response to yours
typical troll welcome to ignore list

[icy kraken]

at first glance its easy to tell u have some deep anger issues and respond like a little child to anyone, besides who gave u the right to tag me, go outside drink some cold lemonade to cool down

[elder locust]

i gave arguments all i got in return is what you are telling me i would do lol.

and then you talk nonsense about anger issues not responding to your childish statements anymore
always the same stupid talk about anger and calm down^^

[icy kraken]

and yet u still keep tagging me like a little child despite being told not to

[blazing dirge]

Introduce new ability "archers mindset" - once activated, hitchance is 100%, monthly subscription 15mc, everyone including eldrin happy

And on a serious note - imo during markmanship hit chance should be 100%.

Imo paladin missing sometimes is normal thing. I dont talk about missing 5x at snake, im with you at this case. Im talking about missing once in a while. Not missing at all when ur archer demands full focus i believe do maybe lock 100% hitchance behind spell? 1 option - constant amount of mana eg 400 and 100% hitchance for 30 minutes or second option , not limited but u Burn 1 mana every 2 seconds

[hollow goblet]

Why is this thread still up?

Paladins on 1-300 is the only vocation that can do factions solo the rest need to team up

[icy kraken]

this thread and other vocation feedbacks will be forever alive unless little children such as stop luring actually stop tagging literally everybody in those threads and stop using personal remarks, heres a great example freshly baked: https://gyazo.com/81e2998ae9baacec9c88d866bfd27a0a

[primal dew]

Im 96% sure that devs have this hidden/ignored and its just here to make everybody talk shit, some sort of therapy channel for people to fume out and buy medivia coin later

[dusky solar]

[elder locust]

and how many time till lvl 600 you spend doing factions? probally less than 5%

[hollow goblet]

Paladin can do all Sheol task solo as well

You want your vocation to be the best in every stage of the game or what?

[elder locust]

yee and takes 3x longer..
but still not an answer to my statement.

why coming up with stuff you spent 5% of your time on?

i want vocations to be balanced and thats it.

[hollow goblet]

On higher lvls the 4 vocations are kinda balanced now

Ppl get to 350+ within a month or 2 anyways

[elder locust]

so what lvl is high lvl?

600+?

when sheol done?

when bis set?

[hollow goblet]

400 can do all content in this game

[elder locust]

the quest was at what high lvl you mean the vocations are balanced

[hollow goblet]

I’m fine with buffing paladins on low lvl if you need them on higher lvl

[elder locust]

still not an answer to my question^^

[hollow goblet]

I don’t understand what you are trying to say

[elder locust]

your statmen on higher levels vocatins are balanced. so i want to know what higher lvl you mean.
when sheol done?
when you have bis set?
when you are 600+?

[hollow goblet]

400-500

[elder locust]

then its only high rate issue and not important.
would love to see powerbotls buyable for 100gp ea and getting 25% or something armor penetration.
could be good for the range in between to pg xD

[gentle hawk]

the game is not balanced around highrate where mages sd rats in thais sewers with profit. rangers are in a good spot on regular rates and they are in a good spot on highrates too, getting good xp good profit and easy content solo ability on all levels. you are either trolling or retarded, idk which of the two.

[pure warren]

Both imo. Even this trolling is retarded 😄 5% playtime on factions lol

[molten shore]

i think he's actually convinced of what he's talking about which is even worse than the 2 first options

[hollow goblet]

Love how he wants more dmg then a mage while having twice the hp

[gentle hawk]

i would put that under retarded

[molten shore]

well that not surprise me tbh is like the never end RP history, i'm more impressed of how he defend his point, he really think he have arguments and statements u know, and he really thinks he know more about the game than ppl who is playing since day 0 is pretty kekw tbh

[molten shore]

ok ok

[timber saffron]

https://tenor.com/view/minions-gif-26254840

Soon archer is saved

[elder locust]

i talked about the way to lvl 600. its 5% of the time doing factions. im not even 300 and i spent more then 50% of my time hunting not doing factions...its only lightbringer, white light and demonic left

[elder locust]

where do i talk about that ? please copy and show me.
if i compare myself to similar lvl eq druid mage they both doing by far better and all i said was like a 10-20% dmg boost.
then mages druid still better dmg
they do 400 more single target dps per turn not even talking about ue mages or druids that can explo 3b3 and doing 3x more dmg than you...
the health pool is hardly of any use. with dmg boost they still deall 200+ more per turn.

and about the oh hell but they can get 1 shotted.
with the actualy death penatly that doesnt even matter.
if you constantly make 200-400k more exp/h you can die so many times and still get more exp overall.

please tell me spawns where rangers can do more exp / h than any druid or mage on range 1-300.
if you can do that my argumentation gets invalid but so far i havent heard of a single spawn where the ranger outshines solo.

and then im accused for trolling.

and agian im talking about hight rates
obviously on low rate it is fine

to sum it up the arguments i heard are
ranger is fine at low rate.
game is balanced around low rate.

ranger gets balanced on higher lvl on high rate.

and none of those counter what i said at all

[hollow goblet]

tell me where knights make more exp/h compared to paladin?

vocations are good at different things get over it

[elder locust]

you dont need to play the game by day one for the comparission i did. can you make some arguments instead of being personal offensive?
read my question above.
please give me spawns the ranger outshines at those level on high rates.

[elder locust]

its not about ek discussion here. its always the same you have 0 arguments to counter so you just be personal offensive or try to direct attention to other things.
so give me spawns ranger outshines.

[hollow goblet]

you are comparing dmg dealer vocations to of tanks

so why not compare of tanks to tanks?

[gentle hawk]

because reasons and iq of below 25 as put on display so nicely again and again

[elder locust]

again 0 arguments. welcome to ignore list

[elder locust]

again personal offensive instead of counter my arguements. where ware the spawns. where is the real usage of the hp pool???

[hollow goblet]

the argument is as a paladin you are twice as tanky as a mage so you should never do more dmg or similar dmg as a mage

[gentle hawk]

bro ur only argument is "man sorc with 50% of my hp makes more dmg than me its unfair cry cry cry"

[hollow goblet]

they already buffed paladins teamhunt dmg to be highest dmg dealers

[elder locust]

you dont even understand what im saying then. but i didnt expect anything else. welcome to ignore list
its sad that you dont have any arguments to counter what i wrote so its 100% true and accurate otherwise youd come up with something

[gentle hawk]

name me one spawn lowrate lvl 1-300 where knights have more xp than sorc! man my hp is useless! knigt need dmg buff!

[hollow goblet]

im done here losing to many braincells reading

bey

[elder locust]

again not talking about low rates and knights here. so again no counter argument.
wonder why highest lvl on serentiy is ek atm...
and from what i know eks solo still lacks something but not too much

[gentle hawk]

u ignore my question name one spawn where knight has more xp than sorc highrate vl 1-300

omg no arguments

just stupid answerd welcome ignore list

give knights ue now its unbalanced need help

hp uesless :/ name one spawn more xp :///

[elder locust]

if you go by that you started to ignore my question in the beginning. goodbye

[gentle hawk]

stop ignore my question name one spawn! u cant! i prove knight needs buff UE when??

knight hp useless when sorc can hunt same spawn need 4 sd and i need many hmm :/ hp useless name one spawn i have more xp

@elder locust

??

[elder locust]

use ek related changes for that discussion

[gentle hawk]

stop ignore my question u talk about druid and mage all the time in this thread

[floral nest]

Stop crying is still here?

[gentle hawk]

name one spawn or give ue to knight

[faint dagger]

he cant name, because doesnt exist ahahahhah

[gentle hawk]

knight need buff :/

my EHP very low too

[faint dagger]

I think my best XP was in Sphynx spamming exoris on this event

1.7KK and something, but it was during the event 15% buff (without event 1.5KK). but using 2 exoris per mob. expensive hunt xd

lvl 280 btw

[gentle hawk]

sorc can do it 4 sd lol, knight hp is useless, knight need sd and ue

[elder locust]

i do same exp there without profit

[faint dagger]

thats true, we need to push hard to get a good XP while mages and paladins just throw sds

[elder locust]

eks on high rate isnt that balaced solo too.
like beyond 200 it feels like too weak
but why highest lvl is ek then 😉

[floral nest]

Ignore this troll guys he is on shadow drakes and arak church 8h+ a day

[elder locust]

and you switched from playing ranger to playing mage and fear now mage is getting less op.
100% not troll

[faint dagger]

tell me one solo player EK which has more level than a solo RP and sorcerer 🙂

[gentle hawk]

no! he is onto something! all vocation should have same dps regardless of their hp cap and all other features! knight need ue now!

[floral nest]

Mage is top 1 since forever

welcome to Tibia

[elder locust]

100% true.
his exp comes from duo with mage

[gentle hawk]

name me one spot where knight more xp than mage @elder locust

[floral nest]

its going to be worse when Eldrin nerfs heavy bolts and/or spellpower

[elder locust]

welcome to vocation balancing and discussion.
so come with 1 arguments other then fearing you loose your op vocation

[floral nest]

paladin is so overtuned right now

and your crying it needs more

and you want to make balance on HR when Iryont and Eldrin said it will NEVER be this way

how many days more are you gonna cry

[elder locust]

if he does that its time to nerf waves and ue.
rangers can now compete in teamhunts and all mages cried cuz they lost some of their opness or more like they have competition now...

[floral nest]

just enjoy the class

[elder locust]

100% must be the reason you switched from ranger to mage. because ranger is op...

[floral nest]

because mage is broken on npvp

thats why i switched

not hitting blocker with waves and UE is insane

[elder locust]

yeee and as soon as other class is op you sells your and switch again.
very solid argumentation from your side as always.
just some bs about me crying lol

[elder locust]

even with hitting blocker just needs higher lvl and waste more supplies. outcome kinda the same

[floral nest]

apart from you can solo many places

i get headshot instant

and you get to TH like i do

it costs me ALOT more to make mlvls for my spellpower

you can just pop a spell and +500 sd damage

[faint dagger]

you can hunt demon hell UE them, you get profit and also magic level, what you talking about of "cost alot?" xDDDDDD

[floral nest]

show me these lvl 200s ueing demon hell making profit

[faint dagger]

oh sorry, go SD warlocks till 250 and UE them, its fine for u? pretty easy tbh

[elder locust]

he fears his op class getting competition one day.
he is the one crying the most.
mages ue lots of places high rate get tons of exp without waste or not much waste at all

[floral nest]

i dont mind if MS is nerfed

ue is uber broken

crazy none touched it in 10+ years

[faint dagger]

Also its new server mate, go UE banshee, sell white dress and recorver all the ivnestment, and ur ML will be like 90 easy pz. soon you get 250 u can train your ML UE things, so dont use this as excuse

[floral nest]

already did this

people offer me 100mc for this dress (400k)

[faint dagger]

eternum I sold my one for 1.6K MC

[floral nest]

your lucky to make 500 here

[faint dagger]

even if you do 500 its some return

[floral nest]

guess speed is not so important on npvp

[faint dagger]

to get level with EK solo u will waste more and do less profit

and much more time waste

[floral nest]

ek with max demonic axe

profits alot of spots

[faint dagger]

so dont rush ur ml, jsut hrow SDs on warlocks, get ur profit, after that you UE demons on lvl 250+

[faint dagger]

max demonic axe on new server, 2K+ MC?

and u crying to waste few golds to get ml ahahaha

[floral nest]

i just abused event

[faint dagger]

with 5KK you get ml 90 easy, even more

u have ml 97 and are crying about ur ML? xD u make 0 sense mate, sorry

[floral nest]

yeah but 2-3 weeks ago MC was 300k ea

so your 5kk

is alot of euros

on MCs

[faint dagger]

ye, try to buy Demonic axe

and tell me the price 🙂

[floral nest]

its 100mc bro

[faint dagger]

oops, demonic full

dare u to find it for less than 5KK

[floral nest]

people dont sell full demonic yet

no hailstorms or BGS

[elder locust]

buff ek
nerf mages
delete ranger
when?^^

[floral nest]

my friend made full demonic on 1.7kk

he paid 300mc for axe

[faint dagger]

Im not even asking to nerf anyone, but EKs should receive some respawns or buffs to do same XP as mages and RPs, would be great. Some ppl liek to do solo content, so Why not make equal for everyone?

[floral nest]

so like 2.6kk

wasnt wiggy soloing corruptors on test server?

[faint dagger]

bro, I have waste 7KK and was not able to get it full

[floral nest]

with ek

[faint dagger]

not everyone have lucky

[faint dagger]

test server, is he soloing it rn?

[floral nest]

its more to the point

its possible

as a EK

ONLY ek can do it

only MS can make "226762762 exp" on X spot

only RP can do "xyz" on spot

[faint dagger]

only mages can lure 6 demons and kill it in 3 turns..

[floral nest]

ek can do it too

[faint dagger]

3 turns? xD

[floral nest]

just need levels

[timber saffron]

Thanks for this discussion, now I'm convinced no developer is reading this anymore

[floral nest]

but overall these threads are waste of time

only people with orange text should be listened to

everything is broken on HR servers

[faint dagger]

one thing I agree with u ahahha

[potent shore]

The reason why high rate is mentioned about not being balanced around, is because it is missing the cost component. People play on high rate because it isn't balanced, you can't ask for balance where it was never meant to exist.
Druids and sorcs deal a decent chunk more damage than you at that level because they generally have pretty high magic level for their level, which falls off at higher levels.
You say healthpool is hardly of use, I beg to differ. It gives you a bufferzone of safety, take that as you like.
Comparing vocations in damage like you do and wanting more without losing anything only makes vocations more similar, which most players do not want. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, it's a part of the game.

[bitter geode]

https://tenor.com/view/popopo-happy-cheering-excited-crowd-gif-17006408

[timber saffron]

My man Charles speaks truth

[gentle hawk]

?? name me one spawn where knight make more xp than sorc on lvl 1-300 high rate its not balanced send help @elder locust

knight need same dmg as sorc

hp useless

[red citrus]

Give that guy an arrow that costs 5k/ea and deal 5k dmg, if he wants to balance the game let it be and see how it goes

[minor cloak]

Paladin is good in teamhunts, in solo hunts is weaker than before if you wanna go for exp using sds, I am not complaning we have a safe health pool when soloing, just need to finish sheol to get the damage where it should be, I am lvl 490 with 131 dist

[glad condor]

Paladin use distance weapon like crossbow and bows, bolts and arrows as ammunition. He also shoots runes like sd, hmm, gfb.

[elder locust]

health pool has no usage. i said alrdy even if you die a lot as druid you still make more exp overall thx to 0 deat penalty.
i dont feel i benefit in any way of my hp pool. its not that oh im lvl 300 now i can go to spot xy and do same exp as druids or more.

if you dont read what i said why make reply?

atm there is only 2 vocations. eks to tanks and mages to wave.
druids and range kinda similar only differnt hp pool and dps

[elder locust]

he is not weaker than before he actually is stronger

[potent shore]

I replied to many of the points you made, you choosing to ignore what I wrote is your choice. Didn't have much belief in your mental faculties from the start, so it's my fault I took the time to explain the reasoning to you.

[minor cloak]

Stronger if you hmm/ice/explo solo hunt, not stronger on sd combo than before

[buoyant mesa]

Guy just said HP pool doesn't matter. What an absolute tool.

[potent smelt]

If HP doesnt matter why didnt he choose another voc.. also why does he think game should be balanced around sd hunting?

[icy kraken]

stop feeding the troll child

[glad condor]

Sd deals damage to monsters and players and should be balanced with care. Archer hits from distance meanwhile knight hits from close distance.

[timber saffron]

Knights hit for free and piercing ammunition is still too expensive. Add conjure piercings arrow, remove miss chance

[gentle hawk]

knight need 1 sqm sd, i agree

[timber saffron]

It's called decimate

[gentle hawk]

no, its less dmg at higher cost! knight need 1 sqm sd, archers have better EHP and sd? lol? 1 sqm sd now!

also knight dont hit for free, we have to facetank and use many uh, ranger no use uh and have better profit (highrate lvl 67 prove me wrong). maybe knight need spear to attack from 2 sqm away so no need heal like ranger

poke spear no throw spear

[glad condor]

Knight use melee weapons like axe sword club, archer use distance weapon like bow and crossbow.

[elder locust]

he is stronger on sd combo? or did they nerf sd dmg? they buffed it by 3% again and the distance dmg got buffed so how can he be weaker in sd combo?

[elder locust]

yes but nothing counter my argumentation.
its balanced for low rate i see and thats it.
the reason again you do personal insults shows your lack of manners

[elder locust]

give me an example a ranger makes use off his hp pool hunting monster with more exp per h than a druid same lvl does at any other spot in the game

[elder locust]

the needs little high rate adjustments and it would be fine on high rate too.
that wont even take long to implement

[timber saffron]

Every spot in game but 100 lvls earlier, then when druid does it, druid outperforms archer

[pure warren]

You telling me you can go 180 druid on dark grim hunt and not die? 😄

[willow shard]

Am I reading tips from a loading screen in an elder scrolls game? 😂 That's funny af, unlike the rest of this thread which is just sad

[faint void]

Give Paladin same Hp and cap as a mage and same dmg. Problem fixxed 👍

[glad condor]

I don’t even know what this thread is anymore.

Guys breath air

[molten shore]

https://tenor.com/view/how-dare-you-james-franco-looking-gif-15728181

[elder locust]

and where is this an example a ranger on same lvl as druids does more exp?

[elder locust]

where is this statement related to my question?

[pure warren]

You were looking for a place where at the same level pally can go hunt (and make very nice exp) and druid basically can't cause of low hp pool. Same is with priests of light

[elder locust]

im looking for a place ranger can hunt that druids cant that gives ranger more exp/h then druids can do on the same lvl at other spots.
for example druid lvl 180 can just hunt blood tomb making 1kk/h
while ranger goes dark grims making 1.4kk/h
when ranger can go dark grims or priests 100% druids does better exp at another place same lvl
thats why i say the hp pool has no usage other than solo tasking which is the least amount i spend ingame time on

[timber saffron]

Bedsore sheol 2kk/h at lvl 320, archer can druid cant

[elder locust]

sd hunt?
currently i(lvl 295) do 2kk at shadow drakes and mage lvl 250 does 2.5kk in warlords and druid does 2.7kk on chaos whoreshippers but lvl 310

[elder locust]

and there is no spawn lvl 320 druid hunts with 2kk. i know one chaos worshipper.
so i add an avantage to archer hp pool. might be able to hunt more spawns and on crowded servers are more likely to find a free one

[timber saffron]

no.. u gfb bedsores u dont sd it

EHP archer is godly

[elder locust]

but thats low rate view. and low rate is fine, isnt it?
its sad that we cant do some small adjustments for high rate servers

[gentle hawk]

noone agrees with you, not a single player on this discord. and many of the people posting here are rangers. the game has no problem, you have a problem, seek professional help

[red citrus]

Solo spell for paladin when ✅
2k dmg with 100 gp arrow when ✅
Stop Luring knows better than everybody else in this game ✅

[faint dagger]

Me coming to this thread by accident, so much cry that I almost drown

https://tenor.com/view/drake-baby-laugh-now-cry-later-laugh-now-and-cry-later-pool-nike-gif-18119888

[faint dagger]

Now show me where EK can make 2KK on this level or anywhere xDDDDDD and if you go to EK Thread no one is crying, those archers cry a lot, damn bro

[pure warren]

Hmm skele warlord sheol maybe? Not sure tho if it's 2kk. If not it's close

[lean oxide]

At 320? Maybe spamming exoris only, but they can hit so can be risky

[gentle hawk]

no way

[sly shale]

Everything under control

[tawdry raft]

oke oke, so when marksmanship will work without party? (even with less benefits, make it possible to use)

[pearl raft]

It's awkward to use spell because you need to keep swapping ammo. Please make it somehow possible to prioritize non-heavy ammo to be used when spell off. Also spell is overpowered.

[worn sage]

its amazing how this thread was almost about the miss hit ratio on paladin xD and now ppl asking for something else

[faint void]

Nah just being better as Druid,but having more cap,hp etc.

[faint dagger]

Damage is overpowered indeed, should be nerfed

[tawdry raft]

that escalated so quickly

[elder locust]

i didnt read any arguments against mine so far. you should get some help.
its funny how litterally no one could counter my argument and just doing troll statements like you.
ranger is so fine that druid mage on same lvl do 2.6kk exp instead of 2kk with 2x the profit.
on high rate onlly mage and druid are playable and eks is needed as meatshield

[elder locust]

you can make memes but you cant counter argument anything of the meme you make above.
very sad.
ye game 100% needa adjustment for high rates. you play low rate`? if game balance for high rate one day you are the first to make endless cries

[elder locust]

there is no cry. i dont know why everyone has mental problems about crying when its a balance discussion. eks dont cry cuz they team hunt with mages and are fine.
most eks i know team hunt 90% of their time they dont even waste time solo hunting anything cuz it sucks so hard.

the only ones crying in here are the mages players. they alrdy cry that ranger now has 2 good teamhunt places and cry for nerf rangers in team hunts lol

[elder locust]

skeleton warlord i do 1.8kk mage 50 lvl less does 2.5kk...

[elder locust]

if you learn to read i never asked anyting about that. but this troll community cant argument thats why they need to make personal insults all day long.
no one could counter argument me.
on high rate rangers are too weak unless you compare beyond lvl 600 because there is no lvl 600 content.

people being proud of themselves when they only can do insults and no arguments.
and then they play mages and druids on high rates lol

[red citrus]

All the people arguing with you think that rp is fine, no matter if low or high rates

[elder locust]

all the player saying its fine on high rate dont even play a ranger on high rate

[red citrus]

Look on progeny highscores exp taken and tell me what you see

[elder locust]

thast is exactly what i said,
after lvl 500-600 rangers become as stronk as the other vocs because there is no content beyond that level so you use the same time to kill on nearly all monster below 20k hp.
where does this counter argument ?

look on serenity highscore exp taken and what spot rangers have there
like druids on that lvl use 1 sd less on shadow drakes but both break the spawns thus there is no diffrence.

on lvl 300 meanwhile ranger does 2kk while druids and mages do 2.5kk+ with better profit not speaking about mages ueing places
and if eks would have to solo hunt they would stop playing as they do like 1.5kk?

but its fine make more memes and troll statements instead of coming up with numbers or actual arguments.

[gentle hawk]

yes druids and mages have more damage and do more experience than rangers. but that does not mean it is unbalanced. all ur cry is based on a wrong fundament. less xp/h solo does not mean unbalanced. balance is much more than that

and if ur brain cannot process that information, which was laid out to you, two dozen times now, maybe it is time to quit and try and get some basic education, it may boost your iq to above 50

[red citrus]

So what do you want to see? You realize if they implemented your ideas then rps on low lvl range would be absolute beasts and no other voc could compete with them, on the highest levels they would be more powerful than mages, mid game would be compensated enough that they are equally strong as mages

Not even gonna mention what that would mean for teamhunting

I understand you play this vocation and you want to make it better but you guys have already been boosted as fuck in the latest patches, dont be greedy

And this is coming from ek, i have no chance of getting same exp as you can

Yet i dont complain, as both eks and rps have been buffed more than they should but it is topic for another discussion

[hollow goblet]

No argument against my man again

Yet another victory

[primal dew]

Few weeks ago I molested myself with a pretty clear explanation about his argument, about his level range and his vocation being outperformed in mid levels which is the one he's on.

[molten shore]

ok dude u win, all this noobs doesn't know what they are talking about but u do, i'm convinced... now what? what's the next step? what we gonna do with this? show me the way

[tired mantle]

Wow this thread is still going

[near jolt]

it's really just 1 person still going tbh

[icy kraken]

let him cook

[pearl raft]

https://tenor.com/view/gordon-ramsay-memes-gordon-ramsay-kitchen-cooking-gif-24323848

[elder locust]

my idea is a 10% dmg buff. so when you compare my lvl 300 single target dps with druids one the gap is 400 at that would be lowered to 250.
on lvl 600+ with sheol set the dmg gap is still like 400-500
this would be lowered to 200-300.
still less single target dps than druid or mages not talking about mage has insane aoe dps and druids that can tank 2-3 monster have more aoe dps aswell.

where is that broken?
its broken if you make the arrow 30% stronger.
if you make sd stronger its not broken or if you make new solo hunt ammunition with spell that is 50gp per shot

new ammunition for solo hunts is the best option.
it would fix high rate and on low rate the ammunition is just to pg as its expensive

[timber saffron]

Couldn't agree more! Also don't forget 100% hitrate and conjure piercing arrows

[minor cloak]

Who understands this guy lol

[scarlet dust]

Also EK hp and cap should be applied for better survivability and less refills 🫡

[tired mantle]

💅

[primal dew]

https://tenor.com/view/wattsthesafeword-wts-pupamp-uncomfortable-face-gif-21851966

[sly shale]

I still got a change name scroll, my advice: stop crying instead of stop luring

[near jolt]

Pls stop even every other archer disagrees with you and just want 100% hit rate and conjure piercing ammo

[gentle hawk]

hp is useless

[elder locust]

there never was any cry except from mages and druid players

[elder locust]

where did i said that i want 100% hit chance?
if you cant separate 2 persons opinions you should not write in a discussion

so where are the archer players disagreeing?
so far that comes from mages and druids as far as i know.

[near jolt]

you obviously don't read what anyone else has to say besides yourself because every archer here is asking for 100% hit chance so we don't poof on monsters anymore lol. If you can't simply read or know how to interpret a sentence you should not participate in discussion. And there has not been 1 archer or person in this thread or anywhere else that has agreed with your ramblings of more archer buffs. I'm not sure but maybe it's just delusion on your part at this point? Idk your reply told me more than enough, I will stop responding to any of your posts now

[hollow goblet]

I still don’t see any counter arguments

Can’t stop getting W

[elder locust]

comes from archers playing high rate?
i read all.
i counter argumented it.
and then nothing more came

[gentle hawk]

why cant i clown emoji what is this

[near jolt]

your counter argument is "buff archers because druids hit more than me at lvl 300rp"

[gentle hawk]

"hp useless"

[near jolt]

and think the game and balancing revolves around your lvl 300rp

if you cant figure out ways to utilize your vocation and be better then go play druid

this thread was made to make archers better in teamhunt which was acoomplished and you only complain "look 300 druid do more dmg than me i need buffs" ???

archers excel at higher lvls too especially in sheol when you can start solo alot of stuff and druid can't and has to rely on a team to do anything

but im sure if you made a druid you'd be complaining anyways that you cant solo stuff and need more hp anyway

[hollow goblet]

I would like a voc change scroll

600 rp and beast every spawn

[elder locust]

now its me that is too dumb to solo hunt ok. here we go with personal insults again.
im not only doing look im lvl 300 druid is doing more dmg.
i say this goes on from lvl 1 to probally 500+ when it doesnt matter anymore since the more dps from druid doesnt mean less time to kill anymore.

same goes for eks

there is no way to be better when there is no spawns that give you any advantage of the strong side your vocation has and that is hp pool and high blocking
sheol solo stuff?
oh yes i solo hunt bws with 1.7kk exp. why would i want to waste my time doing this?
most sheol tasks are not worth to solo because you need longer time then taking an ek to duo hunt it with and doing both tasks.
and guess what druids do the same.
so this advantage dont compensate 25% exp loss till close to end game at all.

• this will continue as soon as new content for higher lvl is release unless the druids or mages cant solo anything there at all but the ranger can.

[near jolt]

If you can’t identify that maybe you are the problem and not the vocation then it’s not a personal insult it’s just a fact

But you are obviously set in your ways and don’t care to listen to anyone else about anything so at this point message the devs directly or make a ticket and tell them why you deserve a buff

[glad condor]

wow this thread still going

we just scratched the surface guys, keep digging.

Tip for devs: ctrl + f “Stop Luring”, implement everything, ship tomorrow

[flat mist]

keep going guys

[elder locust]

again nothing more then personal insults not any argument.
where do i not listen i listened to everyone and i counter argumented it and then nothing more came.
people say ranger can solo task i counter by tasking is 5% of your time spent to 600 the stuff ranger can solo task others cant is mostly not even worth solo tasking as you are slower then just doing 2x the task with ek.
where is that not listening?
after that nothing else comes then personal insults.

when was it all about me getting a buff?
once you are out of arguments all you do is insulting.

when i played druid i said azures are too good it needs a nerf either nerf exp or profit but the spawn is broken

[gentle hawk]

clown

[hollow goblet]

Maybe give paladins 10% more dmg and lower their hp

[icy kraken]

give opaladins 100% more dmg for 100% less hp, all problems solved

[hollow goblet]

Low lvl paladins complaining about solo hunting while high lvl sorcerers only have 1 solo spawn

[elder locust]

#1146878710201467020

[glad condor]

[tawdry raft]

bumb, any admins response?

[pure warren]

About all this bullshit here? 😄 I doubt they read it without getting brain cancer

[icy kraken]

attention everyone, we are purging this abomination of a thread

https://tenor.com/view/office-gif-20101371

[wispy minnow]

this feedback is the best content there is

[glad condor]

Yes I hope devs will implement everything

[hallow minnow]

This massive thread was useful during test server, but now due to changes to how feedbacks are marked as accepted, planned or rejected and because sometimes users here go off-topic, I will close this thread. From now on, please make a separate thread when you have an idea how to improve the vocation.

[hallow minnow]

300 mana cost

Shoots a magical arrow that deals 80% physical and 20% elemental/physical arrow that will deal about 120% damage of sudden death rune for 300 mana cost. The spell will be learnable after completion of the Imperial Faction. The spell will have 3 minute cooldown. The spell will be only castable on monsters.

The 20% elemental/physical damage depends on the weapon used. If an archer has sacred arbalest equipped then the spell will deal 20% holy damage. If no elemental bow/crossbow is equipped then spell deals 100% physical damage.

This spell will be soon added on the test server. We'd like to know your feedback about the spell here.

@here

[jovial palm]

Hope its AOE, but thanks Dev! 🔥❤️

[willow shard]

This spell is OP in pvp and will make for insane running combos with no skill/aim required. For pve it's whatever I mean it's a 3 min CD so it doesn't change much. I don't like this type of design and if we're going the route of having spell cooldowns I would much prefer something like rapid fire cooldown that increases attackspeed for arroes/bolts for a period. Sounds more balanced.

Also I think that you should nerf archers arrow/bolt dmg across the board by something like 15% and you should eliminate miss chance for highlvl/high dist characters. Nerf knights melee also they hit way too hard.

[young mesa]

fix archers accuracy instead of this spell

[hallow minnow]

This spell is OP in pvp
The spell will be only castable on monsters.

[willow shard]

I don't think that too many players are very fond of arcane marksmanship or any other future spells with weird limitations such as creatures only. Those who do simply likes being OP.

Actually I think that you should rework archers entirely, the voc is in such a weird place right now. Being a squishy mage is not what people signed up for when creating this vocation. I don't have all the answers but I think that discussing balancing in a controlled environment with as little bias as possible would be good for both the game aswell as your psyche Eldrin, before you come up with these ideas on your own. This feedback section is unfortunately not it. I understand that this won't happen though so I'll leave you and the HR hotkey guys to discuss this.

[timber saffron]

i dislike this arcane spell somuch 😭

[red citrus]

I agree paladins need a rework, this is such a weird class now, used to be 2nd best tank. And I hate that they are running on mana shield all the time with spell, this needs to be changed more than anything, super cringe

[sonic musk]

They should have someone like you on their team, you always know what your talking about and you know this game very well, and it's been like this for a long time now... How can't they see it..

[red citrus]

Most people push for changes that benefit their own playstyle, Maas push for changes that are good for game longterm, he's a legend 🫡

[halcyon shard]

remove arcane marksman stance , add better 1h weapon instead of it , decrease dmg of archers but remove this miss chance , allow us to use burst arrows (dmg based on skill and lvl) it is so weird as 390+archer my burst dmg is 0-xxx.

we are useless in aoe hunts.

[sonic musk]

I think archers are way to strong, but I wouldn't mind seeing bolts penetrating enemies on the way while traveling towards the desired monster. Just an idea.. also if any this marksmanship should keep its hp being lowered, but it should work in PvP just as PvE, and even is solo hunts, but I'd rather see the speed being nerfed so that way you have to be quick to turn it off to regain normal speed and get further away from the monster

[peak geyser]

One archer spell could be "shrapnel shot", an aoe attack that does some damage and puts armor reduction on all mobs in a 8 box square

It shouldnt be that much damage that its worth spamming and it also shouldnt be a long cooldown on it so they can use it once on every aoe pull

Could also remove armor reduction from arrows completely and make another shot spell similar to the one i proposed but on single target

[jolly scroll]

Tbh I'm scared to propose anything here to not destroy even more this vocatiion... It's super hard to totally rework archer now.

My observations which very demotivating me as archer is just 1 type of play style.

• Doesn't matter where I go if it's anchegul with mana shield or if its ashlord spawn everywhere is the same. Shooting SD and nothing else. As 650 archer I got almost 10k mana which I can spent only for healing during hunt. I dont know how to comment that to say how boring is it

• almost every spawn which is related for aoe DMG archer is redundant but in opposite way when spawn is for single target DMG then every vocations is welcome but mostly archers. Maybe it's because of spawn design and mixing monsters but if not then something with at least little aoe would be nice to have.

In summarize after both of those mentioned above observations I would propose to make a spell which can change our DMG from single to aoe.
When spell used then ammunition bounces between targets max to 3 targets. First attack doing 100% of DMG but second is reduced by 15% and third again reduced by 15%. Spell would have duration for Xmin and could be turned off like mana shield

For example my current single hit is 103 so with spell 3 of those targets when bouncing would get in total also 103 DMG. First target would get 40, second 34 and third 29. Bouncing would looks like chain not aoe like 3x3 or something. (low numbers to easier calculate this shit)

Arcane shot is ok for me but will not change anything in play style and playing archer will be still super boring and problems will be still the same

#Edit
Also i forgot to say that im agree with thing that archer with mana shield (becasue of Arcane Marksmanship spell) when 0 pom, 0 amplify and lower mana regen is absurd. In future content if we will get even stronger places than anchegul with higher dmg i cant imagine how it will works for longer term.. So there should be bigger rework than just adding spells

[crystal hedge]

@hallow minnow Could you please let me know when this Arcane Shot spell is added to the test server?

[modern sky]

My question is the same for archer and mages. Why 3 min cd for a spell with only 20% more damage than a SD?

[somber crag]

tbh idk who asked for this spell or if it's even needed :S

[glad condor]

introducing this spell on such a high cooldown achieves what exactly? Seems gimmicky

[somber crag]

exactly maybe if it have lower exaust u could combine with SD else is one more SD costing mana instead of gps

[modern sky]

I always wanted 1 spell for archers, it was needed and nice to use ur mana, but 3 min cd for a single shot with 20% increased dmg of a SD? What?

My idea would be one of these below:

Arcane shot - is good (with no CD, maybe 10% - 15% more dmg than SD for 300 mana isnt somthing that would be spamable)
Double shot - ur next turn will proc a double shot with 100% chance
Bleed arrow - ur next shot will make ur enemy bleed for additional x% damage

[jolly scroll]

miss chance should be removed
but it was already mentioned in other topic and Eldrin provide some details about it how he gonna do this

[sharp ice]

I like your spell suggestion but im not sure how useful it would be if the total damage would be the same...
Maybe the spell that you described but not splitting damage with a very high mana usage(700+) would be more useful.
as an example while hunting corruptors when it comes corruptor + 2 shades, would be nice to have that. ofc it would need a 2min cooldown or so.

About Eldrin's proposed spell:
I guess it would be more useful with 100% sd damage but regular 2s cooldown, it would be a nice way to waste mana while hunting and alternate with sds. Making it always holy damage would also be nice.

[jolly scroll]

good point but i think if there would be removed miss chance then u could do some hunts with explo not only sd/hmm simulator keeping distance from monster etc

this could open more opportunities than just 1 play style

maybe if dmg would be X% more than total then it could be more useful cause if u will change target with this bouncing then it would be the same

but its just general proposal of spell and numbers can be changed by eldrin to make it useful but it would be something totaly different than normal aoe dmg and it would be more like dealing dmg with a bow than burst arrows 3x3 as an real archer that deals damage to single targets

[red citrus]

First of all bursts should be brought back to rps, this is the starting point that allows them for some aoe hunting

[modern sky]

id say 110% dmg, because if its not better than SD its just a non usefull waste of mana, would be better to just make arrows... well imo of course

[old flame]

ofcourse little adjustments are always needed or somthing to discuss but whys it always 90% legacy guys trying to change vocations ,aren't yall ever happy and just enjoy a bit?

[hallow pond]

Taking as i.e, SD with 1700 dmg average and hunting Anchegul holding sd (as paladins are supposed now) for 30 seconds will lead to ~15 shots that's equal to 25.5k rune dmg, using one time the spell (1700*1.2=2040) it will change approximately 110 rune dmg per minute and the mechanics will be the same as the only thing paladins does, hold sd! Its better to fit it into a dot spell then waiting 180 seconds to throw the same thing

[hallow minnow]

There are plans to make burst arrows a bit more viable for archers.

[mighty lake]

imho better if u do something like spell "explosive arrow/bolt" for 300 mana 2 min cd and should work like when u hit a selected creature a nearby creeps are hit by 10% dmg of main target for 10 sec (so if u hit ur target for 500 ,around enemy takes 50 dmg). Imho its little impact and dont broke the way of playstyle of archer which is most dmg vs single target.

[modern sky]

2 min cd for 50-90 damage?

[mighty lake]

If u hit 1000 its 100 x 5turn x 3-4 mobs= 1500-2000 still its more than 0 like now 😉

[modern sky]

5 casts of this abilitie would take 10 minutes

[mighty lake]

10 sec is 5 turn so u can shoot 5 times

[modern sky]

Oh now i get it, I thought u said 10 sec like a DoT, now is making sense to me lol

[mighty lake]

And it can be even better if u double shoot from attri at this 10 sec spell on

[mighty lake]

Naah IT shouldnt work as a dot, i would see this spell makes ammo into explosive one for 10 sec

[halcyon shard]

mayby instead of arcane marksman stance we can get ability to create "lighting spears" , need spear to enchance it and then our lighting spear will be 1h weapon and every hit would make chain lighting , for example I hit one mob and it jumps to close targets , every next target would deal like 15-20% less dmg than the first one? this could fix 2 problems of archers : lack of aoe dmg and remove shit op stance which no one likes and push "tanky" voc to hunt with manashield.

[hallow minnow]

Burst arrow formula has changed.

It used to be:

max = level/3 + magicLevel^(4/3)
damage was: max * 0.3 to max * 0.7

Now it is:

attack of burst arrow is 5

1. min and max counted using normal distance formula
2. added by dexterity (but only 20% effective)
3. added by spellpower of small explosive runes (but only 20% effective)

so:

max = 20 + (attackSkill ^ 2) / 1600 * attack (5)
min = playerLevel / 5 + (max * 0.20)

if double promoted:

min = min * 1.05
max = max * 1.05

dexterity bonus:

min = min + (dexterity * 0.80 * 0.20)
max = max + (dexterity * 1.20 * 0.20)

spellpower bonus:

min = min + (spellPower * 0.15 * 0.20)
max = max + (spellPower * 0.35 * 0.20)

at last, rounded down again

You can check the damage values in tooltip.

Used stats:

• 462 level
• 120 distance
• 28 magic level

[hallow minnow]

In addition to changes to burst arrows, so buff to AoE damage of archers, the Arcane Shot spell will instead target up to 3 targets near the current target. Damage values, cost, etc. may change. Also the cooldown will be around 1 minute rather than 3 minutes.

Some may wonder why archer's AoE damage is suddenly buffed? Currently archers are too weak on teamhunts where you fight more than one target at once, but also too strong when fighting a single target. With these changes we are hoping to balance it out, by buffing AoE damage of archers but also making single target damage cost more. Arcane Marksmanship spell will also drain a small amount of mana every time you fire a bolt or arrow under effect of this spell.

Also, burst arrows may apply armor reduction similar to heavy arrows while under effect of Arcane Marksmanship spell to all targets.

We'd like to know your opinion about these changes. Single target damage will not decrease but it will cost slightly more. @here

[modern sky]

Kind strange draining mana for shooting arrows…

[half oriole]

Is it buffed?
Seems like piercing arrows(even hunting arrows? ) 3 targets explo might still be more damage.
At least on 300 paladin test @hallow minnow

[hallow minnow]

It is buffed. Dealing damage to 3 targets with burst arrows should deal roughly the same amount of damage as piercing arrow to single target. Burst arrow armor reduction is not added yet.

[half oriole]

So why would this be more viable for 3 targets? (dmg scaling lvlwise on paladin is all over the place, so my 300 paladin deals more damage with hunting arrow(up close) than burst arrows 3targets for 4x the cost.

[glad condor]

this mana drain counts towards mlvl progression?

[hallow minnow]

Yes.

[hallow minnow]

No need to change targets for example. 3 targets at once is not the limit of how many targets you can hit at once.

[half oriole]

So for solo aoe this changes nothing. Now going to teamhunt how many spots are there that this would be viable?(more than 3 targets)?
Can u name some hunting spots with level range that will make this actual aoe paladin buff?

[glad condor]

but you don’t need to change target using hunting arrows. In fact it’s still better to use hunting arrows because one target dies faster

but it’s a good change, players will figure out how to use bursts efficiently

[half oriole]

^ changing targets is no argument. with burst arrows u would have to actually change arrows in quiver while luring to hunting/piercing

[glad condor]

or if they are not used at all, they can be buffed or changed again

[marble oar]

idea to rebalance aoe/single target a bit seems good but I don't understand the comparison to piercing arrows when it's mostly about the lack of AoE damage in team hunts?

don't archers pretty much always just use heavy arrow in team hunts anyways?

so burst would be a lot worse, even on 5 targets?

[half oriole]

But paladin aoe damage is fine in th? gfb/explo dmg is fine and u can just change target

[glad condor]

this is fine just mana drain on arcane marksmanship gonna feel really bad probably

[half oriole]

Why @hallow minnow thinks archers are too weak on aoe th? @glad condor

[marble oar]

Also, looking at these numbers, they seem to ignore that you have to "pay" for the creature armor 3 times instead of once. When I simulate with a piercing arrow and annihilator 3x Burst might be around 1x Piercing arrow, but most higher monsters have like what, 40-60 armor? So with bursts you lose the damage on 3 targets so instead of 178-195 you do like 128-145 per hit, 384-435 total, whereas piercing is quite a bit higher still

[hallow minnow]

Piercing arrow also applies 18% armor reduction where burst arrow will apply 50% armor reduction. Combined with explosion damage it will boost a lot. Now to do that you have to change target every 2 seconds and it caps out at 3 targets (duration is 6s).

[modern sky]

I understand ur point and can agree with u. But I think burst arrows should be a thing in this game, so im happing its getting buffed, but there is no reasons to use it if u have to have at least 4 targets to really worth it... I would say it needs a little bigger buff to actually be a thing... since its expensive. With heavy arrows I hit 1200 dmg in a single hit, so I think burst with arcane marksmanship active should have a max dmg of 400+ to at least equal to a single dmg of an heavy arrow when hitting 3 target

Im 475 archer with 137 skill 33 ml

[marble oar]

But doesn't Explosion Rune ignore monster armor anyways? Or was that fixed

[timber saffron]

[marble oar]

Like if burst removed 50% of the armor on a 50 armor mob and that means that all other shooters deal ~25 additional damage per small explosive rune AND per regular explosive rune, that should probably make up for the damage in the overall team hunt if you have at least 2 mages. If it's just small explosive rune, most likely not, especially if you only have a druid or a mage with you. Archer loses a bunch of damage and mage only gets ~75 damage/turn + 25 from the knight right click. Still seems like a bit of a hassle to balance it this way since it makes paladin a debuffer and moves "their" damage to other classes

[hallow minnow]

Explosion rune is blocked by armor.

While it may look meh or not too good on 3 targets, remember that there are or will be spawns where you kill even 8 targets at once.

Players will find good uses to burst arrows.

[hallow minnow]

The extra damage needs to cost more, it looks like a better alternative to straight up decreasing attack of heavy arrows.

Also have in mind that when you miss, with piercing arrows it's 0 damage but you may still damage even all targets when you miss with burst arrow.

[half oriole]

So burst arrows aren't supposed to be used on 3 targets solo? That might be mine misunderstanding.

If u already thinking about ranger might be a good chance to rethink this spell all together.

[timber saffron]

Should add this burst and decrease heavy arrow still it's way to good

Atleast by 5 atk

[jolly scroll]

I agree with lack of dmg in ANY aoe hunt (solo/th). But those bursts looks like not worth to use even with more than 3 monsters group cause u will spent much more cash for very low dmg buff in team hunts and if u have mage in team who will e-wave then this small dmg no matter or maybe only if u need like 1 gfb/burst more to clear monsters group. Additionally ure forced to swap ammo all the time which is annoying so totally not worth

In solo hunts those bursts will be totally useless cause it will just increase waste. Bursts should be at least small but bigger dmg than value of single target in solo to make sense to use them for solo hunts.

@hallow minnow
Arcane Marksmanship spell will also drain a small amount of mana every time you fire a bolt or arrow under effect of this spell

Currently im using spell to be able use heavy ammo and have bigger dmg from runes. In case of changes to spending mana even if i use hunting/piercing ammo (which dmg dont change during spell like in case of heavy ammo) during this spell ill lose mana? So its also not worth to use any other ammo than heavy with this spell. Cause it will be like i have to spent mana to have better dmg from runes only and additionally ill have less hp due to spell.

From my perspectives i see only nerfs here or adding something which will make hunts more complicated like swapping ammo all the time etc

[keen dock]

I dont agree here i mean mages/druids also dont hit that much with bursts. And it shouldnt be almost the same dmg for you with burst like druids/mages.

[jolly scroll]

druid/mage at lvl which is in example above hits more with small explo and additionally dont pay mana for every single shot

[ebon prairie]

Well important question is:

Why u crying about "RP dont have how to waste mana on team hunts" ?

here is answer from Eldrin for this crying, be happy.

[jolly scroll]

im not crying about not spending mana during hunts and if he want add something which will do this then it should be worth it...
in this example which Eldrin provde its just no sense to use it or maybe i should use it and make more waste for team just to get some mlvl? read changes first

@ebon prairie u totally dont understand the problem here

[marble oar]

I think you're mistaken? I've just tested it again in game and on ~450 Explosion hits on Titans with exactly 550 Spellpower (165-385 damage) I have not once damaged for less than 165. I've seen exactly 165 damage like 7 times, not once anything below. So unless Titans have no armor or I'm incredibly lucky with my damage rolls, explosion rune does in fact ignore armor. I've also heard players mention this in the past on streams because everyone expects explosion rune to be blocked by armor, but for some reason it's not.

[ebon prairie]

i read changed, and these changed eldrin add because players crying without reason. if someone want spend mana on teamhunts create bolts, whats the problem.

Anyway u gonna use 1 mana potion per 2 minutes, whats the problem

@jolly scroll now i understand your point. u want to waste mana + deal dmg

i think good idea is add wave for RP who cost 125 mana (50% wave MS) and deal 200% dmg mort hur

then ALL RP will be happy

[deep peak]

While i do not speak about aoe dmg/costs etc.- there are other more experienced players.
I have to add just 2 cents.
Switching ammo from pull to pull is not gonna work in real teamhunt.
Its painfull and player cant be focused on looting, running to the next pull, avoiding mechanics/active skills, targeting, shooting runes and being OFFTANK while his eyes will be off the main section just bcus need of the ammo switch... to many action to do, just to many

[jolly scroll]

jesus no, u dont understand
there is no needed aoe like this.

if there will be removed miss chance with decrease dmg by %amount of miss chance then when archer use piercing arrow u will do the same like those bursts but without any cost of mana, swapping ammo etc...

and stop that shit propaganda that paladins want to spent mana during hunt cause ure now acting like biased other voc and not even helping to make any balance here.. im gonna ignore u now due to waste time

[ebon prairie]

Ok, i have important question, no joke like Kari.

If RP can in the future use Burst Arrows
Arrows = BOW

So i guess with crossbow i won't be able to use it, im right ?

[hallow minnow]

Ooops, I've been looking at explosive runes, which are blocked by armor, not explosion runes. Yes, you are right. In that case armor reduction will work on mage's and druid's small explosive runes, knight's berserk and of course knight's and archer's auto attacks, but not explosion runes.

[jolly scroll]

@hallow minnow
what the purpose of usage these bursts in your perspective? Maybe there is something under hood or something for planned spots idk

If miss chance will be removed then whats the point to use those bursts in solo hunts if dmg will be the same and even additionally we will have to spent mana for every each shot which will just increase waste and also increase effort due to swap ammo?

Have u maybe some calculations to show the differences between hunting/piercing ammo vs bursts in solo and heavy vs bursts in th? It would be helpful to better understand it and it would explain more

[hallow minnow]

In some situations it will be better to use burst arrows than piercing or even heavy arrows. Players will find them out in future, may be in current or future content.

Since burst arrows scales a bit with spellpower, Arcane Marksmanship also increase damage of burst arrows, where it doesn't when it comes to piercing arrows.

I do not want to overbuff anything and later deal with people crying when nerf is needed. If bursts will underperform in all situations there may be another buff, who knows.

Miss chance will not be removed. There may be a slight buff to hit chance when you attack much slower creatures than you, but other than that your hit chance should remain the same.

[marble oar]

Imo it might be worth "fixing" this as it's very unintuitive that some physical runes are affected by armor (SD) and others are not (Explo). If things remain as is, idk how worthwhile using burst arrows on archers will be. Assuming 50 armor (which is more than most monsters have?), a 50% armor reduction results in like 23 additional damage per affected hit (if monster armor still works as it did originally and not player armor).

So on 3 targets (50 armor) an archer using Burst Arrows deals 186,5 - 23 damage per target (remaining armor) * 3 targets = 490,5 damage. Average Piercing Arrow Shot is around 551 before armor reduction (using my excel to simulate damage which might be flawed). 50 * 0,18 = 9 armor reduction, 41 armor remain which is like 37 something damage reduction. So 551-37 = 514 damage.

Actually, nevermind. I guess this seems alright from a damage perspective. If you have at least 1 other mage/druid shooting, the armor reduction on small explosive runes offsets the reduced archer damage. If you manage to hit more than 3 targets, burst arrow becomes better in most cases, if monsters have low armor piercing arrow is probably better since you also don't have to damage your knight that way.

Economics are very different though since burst arrow is like 50-55 gp compared to 12 gp on piercing arrow so from a profit perspective I don't think you'd ever use bursts, unless it's like 8 targets each pull. And heavy arrow is at the same price point but does deal way more damage than 3x burst arrow shots. Would probably need at least to hit 5 targets for burst to compete against heavy arrow.

[hallow minnow]

Without and with spell active:

[jolly scroll]

what about miss chance when we use burst arrows?

[hallow minnow]

And there are or will be hunting zones where you hit more 5 or more targets at once.

[jolly scroll]

and if we use burst arrows but without markmanship spell then we will lose mana also or mana cost is only during spell?

[hallow minnow]

Same thing applies. And if I recall correctly, missed burst arrows still hit AoE, so there is a chance you will hit at least one target. Piercing arrow would deal no damage.

[hallow minnow]

Mana cost will be applied to every arrow/bolt shot under effects of Arcane Marksmanship spell, so also heavy arrows and piercing arrows. If spell is not active then there is no mana cost.

[half oriole]

First mana shield, then shooting arrows cost mana, what is this? A magic archer?
Just raise the cost.

[keen dock]

Will work double shot also with bursts?

[pure warren]

Just delete arcane marksmanship all together. Fixing it gonna create more problems

[jolly scroll]

u mean that even if i miss my burst when ill stand in corner with 3 monsters then ill be able to hit atleast one monster due to 3x3 area? or i missunderstand something?

[jolly scroll]

ye thats good question and what about mana cost during spell when fast hand will be applied

[hallow minnow]

This is a missed burst arrow.

[hallow minnow]

1. Read feedback channel.
2. Buy thousands of arrows in advance before patch drops.
3. Enjoy "raised" cost.

[hallow minnow]

Due to how currently Fast Hands work mana cost would apply only once.

Attributes don't affect burst arrows, but might do after changes.

[floral nest]

Eldrin are you going to code crossbows to shoot these also or will there be some explosive bolt variant?

[hallow minnow]

There may be a bolt variant if it's needed.

[half oriole]

Seems better than shooting arrows drain ur mana for next few years. Also what about spawns that mobs drain mana?

[floral nest]

it wont matter, its a TH spell and you dont tank with it on. The EK would have aggro

[hallow minnow]

Gives archers a way to spend extra mana, thus advancing in magic level. Arcane Marksmanship = party spell, so if your mana is drained blame the knight or yourself if you get hit by attacks with magic shield.

[half oriole]

You don't need knight to use arcane marksmanship, so all spawns that u tank now on rp with spell on are out of the window?(monsters that drain mana)

[ebon prairie]

Special for you, Eldrin gonna change all monsters on medivia "mana drain works on knight/ed/ms" but if u are RP mana drain isnt work on your vocation

@half oriole stupid question, stupid answer.

Ofcourse monsters with mana drain still gonna exist... if u gonna hunt with team your knight TANK these monsters = he wont drain ur mana

[jolly scroll]

in case of solo hunt
heavy ammo cost 50gp/ea and their purpose is for team hunts due to dmg change. Bursts behavior is the same with dmg change with/out spell so price will be the same? If yes then looks like not worth to use in solo hunt cause piercing cost 12gp/ea and hunting 4gp/ea

am i right or i miss something here?

could u also remind miss chance % for each ammo including upcoming burst arrows changes?

[hallow minnow]

Mainly the AoE boost is targetted in teamhunts. Can be in some cases better in solo hunts but it's not intended to make bursts broken in TH just to make it good in solo.

[hallow minnow]

I find it funny that some people complained about the spell saying to remove it and that archer's identity is a sub-tank but now they have discovered spawns where they can tank while using the spell people complain about not being able to use it while tanking 😆

Not saying that's you, I didn't check your past messages about the spell, but that reminded me of some people.

Valid point, I will think about it but can't promise anything.

[mighty lake]

for solo hunt probably will be better if burst arrow will hit chain dmg max to 3 targets,thats my opinion.

[glad condor]

How about increasing price of heavy ammo instead of mana drain on shot

[hallow minnow]

Here.

[glad condor]

this can’t be the reason right?

increase it right now already

If that’s the case

[timber saffron]

price is going up AGAIN?

wasnt there mana increase some months ago for it

[glad condor]

No Timmy

ur mana will be drained when shooting with spell active

which is fucking weird if u ask me. Just increase the price literally this minute (pretty sure it’s possible without server restart) and that’s how u have higher cost of this damage

[hallow minnow]

For now ignore how the price will be increased.

[pure warren]

Increasing the price doesn't solve the biggest issue... Archers have to stay on mana shield and deal more dmg than ms which is totally broken

[glad condor]

@hallow minnow i can’t find any information if bow special effects, like double shot chance for example, will work with burst?

[hallow minnow]

Scroll up.

[shut grove]

How much mana will it cost each shot?

[glad condor]

bro I’m not gonna scroll this entire thread

[pure warren]

Ofc it applies. Why wouldn't it. Ammo as any other 😉

[sharp ice]

is Arcane Shot already available on test server? cant find it on spellbook

[sharp ice]

looks like there is something wrong with that formula, seems like at some point the min damage exceeds the max damage, just like on my case at test server(lvl 694, distance 149, spell 1248, dex 247), using your formula my damage would be:
Min: 275
Max: 241
Looks like in-game it rounds to the max damage:

[hallow minnow]

Currently there is some change for testing, try now.

[glad condor]

because if I’m not mistaken it doesn’t work currently with bursts?

or does it?

[jovial palm]

Why not put AOE spell than this or new weapon / ammunition such spear or star that has ricochet so we as archer can also use shield whats the point we have shielding in game??

sad to see as an archer always in the backline and babysit by the team cuz of too squishy while mana shield in team hunt

mage / druid has a tons of mana shield while rps has only half of that and low hp cuz of marksman spell

I wish there is a vocation change scroll in market sad to see all of this

• mana drain while using marksman
• burst arrow-ish metta

[upbeat galleon]

A boomerang weapon with a chance to hit from 1 to 5 mobs, then get back to hand
Lol

[chrome hare]

I would like to know the reasoning for moving rangers from highly efficient but mediocre single target dmg to high dmg high cost(?). unclear how expensive it will be but it seems like we are moving rangers to become the complete opposite of what they were.

It also bothers me that the amplify mana shield change was added after alot of feedback regarding mages losing alot of mana in sheol while paladins did not have this issue. Back when this was the topic paladins did not have the new spell and did less dmg but had a lower risk (economical or survival). We are now at the opposite side of this where paladins does not have amplify mana shield but instead deal higher dmg single target than any other vocation.

[sharp ice]

I agree about the amplify mana shield but if you ever try to propose changing that all the other vocations are gonna cry because in their minds paladins are broken/best vocation.

[pure warren]

Mediocre single target damage dealer? What? When?

[lethal flint]

Im sorry I didnt read all the discussion but regarding burst arrows, Eldrin said that it will be possible to hit 8 targets at once, that means that ppl will be shooting the blocker or the person who is surrounded by the monsters to do that but on non-pvp, thats not possible.

Did anyone knows if on next patch it will be possible to do that?

[buoyant mesa]

Obviously not. Non pvp has pros and cons. It's one of the downsides.

[polar sage]

u should be able to attack ur party members on non pvp its kinda stupid u cant, everything is just super ez otherwise, ppl go with a team full of mages as shooters and just ue ue ue everything and there is no need to think of strategy or bring a druid to the team on most hunts or consider u cant just spam ur ek with spells cuz it might get him killed, game is super weiird like that

[halcyon shard]

That's it, I like it. I chose the no pvp world, now archer will be able to use burst arrows more effectively, so maybe I could change the no pvp world to half pvp, so that when the mage uses Ultimate Explosion it is non pvp but if archer wants to shoot with burst arrows it will be pvp but not always because sometimes it's not worth it😃

[jolly scroll]

@hallow minnow what about this? can we expect those changes soon or later?

tbh im waiting for this super long time cause miss chance is terrible especially when u want stay with monster and shoot instead of keeping distance all the time which is very exhausting in longer time 😐

[hallow minnow]

This will not change.

[upbeat galleon]

But such vocation is about keeping distance
Imagine if knights ask for them to be able to hit from distance because sometimes they don’t wanna walk to the mob?

I think the miss chance should exist only with no distance.
If you have at least 1 sqm between you and the mob and certain skill (90+ maybe), you should never miss.

What I think is annoying is missing several times in a row when a rat is on my way.
What I do is having a melee weapon in my bp with a hotkey to swap it and kill weak mobs on my way
That’s make sense to me since in real life, I would just put my bow on my back and pull a sword to kill weak monsters close to me

[glad condor]

Can burst double hit if my bow has this attribute

[modern sky]

If we can’t target the blocker in non PvP, burst will be bad. U will be able to hit a max of 5 mobs in the best situation… I understand it’s non PvP and have pros and cons, but anyway will be useless…

Just to remember, idk how, but u can use targeted runes in players in non PvP, like SD, it doesn’t deal damage but u can use it, so why not small explosive and burst?

[pallid cedar]

do we have thats spawns that we need aoe? every spawn in game breaks so why we need aoe implementation on paladins?

[modern sky]

Eldrin said ppl will find good uses for AoE in current and future content. I’d say with that probably we going to have new aoe hunts

[hallow minnow]

Changes were made on test server. On optional-PvP worlds, when the target is in melee range of selected player (with blue outline) then both burst arrow and small explosive rune (when using a two handed weapon) will be centered on a selected player.

[pallid cedar]

another question is, can be something done to spawns that easy break at level 500, since there are levels 800 already? literally there are 2-3 solo/able spawns which cannot break, for rest of them I need to wait for spawn (the spawns from sheet )

[modern sky]

A new spawn for 550 Archers has been announced last week. But i don’t think we can test it yet

[crisp quail]

that doesnt answer his question

[hollow drift]

Why in the past did you tell mage/druid this couldn't be fixed and now it can be fixed in a moment? This is very frustrating we have wanted this for a long time

[molten karma]

didn't impact master race so wasn't worth coming up with a fix

[tall mortar]

The advantage of playing pvp, in this case, is being able to target the knight. The downside is damaging your tank.
On non pvp, the advantage is not hitting your EK, and the disadvantage is not being able to make the most out of 2 handed small explosive runes.
I feel like we shouldn't be able to have it both ways.

[sharp ice]

any possibility to make the burst arrow damage change according to how many monsters it hit? this way you could balance it to be good both solo and party hunting

[junior aspen]

If you drain mana per shot would you change the HP value you lose on spell or would you remove it all together?

[pure warren]

are you serious with this question? 😄 they try to nerf the most OP spell in the game along with Purification, they do so by giving archer way to train magic while on mana shield and you expect another huge buff?

[tame warren]

Shit opinion

Thats 1200-1600 dmg

Doing 60%+ base mage damage + attributes like fast hand is more than enough

If you want high numbers then paladin should attack once per 6 seconds for 600 per mob

No vocation should be best in single target, above average in aoe, tanky, independent but very welcome in teamhunt

If there is any more buffs to paladins, druids deserve ice waves and mages purification

[pure warren]

I mean, I am paladin main but I totally agree. 200-220 aoe is sick damage

[glass shuttle]

I just said it feels really lackluster I didn’t ask for buff or anything and u give me the clown emoji? 1200-1600? That’s if u hit all of them all the time when you miss more then half of the mobs with 130 dist? Then also reasonable?

1 arrow going of to China

[tame warren]

I dont see any other interpretation of "feels lackluster" as saying it feels bad and needs a buff

You didnt mention miss chance so neither did i

Also knight with correct positioning is able to greatly reduce the misses

[glass shuttle]

Uh? If they “box” themself with 6-8 mobs and 1 arrows decide to go to China how could they possibly correct their positioning?

If it “only” hits 2-3 mobs for 200 dmg you’re almost better off tab targeting with piercing arrows for a cheaper cost and reduce your waste (ofc high rate doesn’t care about this)

[shut grove]

I’m 600 RP, I tried the burst arrows yesterday at radiants, I did at best 230dmg my average was like 180 dmg, tbh I rather shoot and kill the mobs one by one with heavy arrows rather than do 140-230 dmg each hit.

I killed them faster without burst by single kill than with burst.

[red citrus]

Yeah but you guys should be mainly hunting 1 by 1, bursts buff was to give you guys some alternatives, shouldnt be pushing for too much

[tame warren]

But you dont hunt Radiant 6x6 or 8x8

Also bursts are not reducing armor yet, no?

[shut grove]

Yeah, RPs are single target killers and should remain like that, I’m not fan of this “buff” or any buff paladins are good as they are.

[tame warren]

8x8 is another thing, but you can greatly reduce miss chance on 6x6

[shut grove]

We were TH there just to try out the burst, and it sucked. We cleared the 4-8 pulls faster by killing them one by one than killing with burst.

[tame warren]

Did you also compare on solo?
Heavy arrows are applying the armor debuff which makes huge difference i guess

[shut grove]

Burst apply 50% armor reduction as well if I’m not wrong.

[tame warren]

Oh i thought its coming with mana drain update