Archer related changes

[polar sage]

Yea u right, i just added to ur list of rp items

[finite ice]

Hydra and spider chain have 3 and 2% poison resist

[polar sage]

Your not considering this at all? It can be a very nice and simple way to diversify paladins hunting style, which is one of the issue with paladins gameplay atm.
To clalify the issues with rp gameplay atm as i see them are:

1. Not welcome on team hunts as other voc are.
2. They are baiscly sd simulator, no diversity

[jolly scroll]

last question about shadowfall xbow will u maybe make some changes with monsters to make us possible hunt with this xbow or any other changes or u will leave this? 😐

[blazing dirge]

@hallow minnow will items have only one of str/dex/wisdom? Or will we have items including all 3?

[polar sage]

Angelic legs will most likely have all 3 so maybe other items will as well

[hallow minnow]

#1118515140007047258 message

For example, you pointed out damage increase of archers on low levels. It is because of spellpower formula change, so archer's spellpower formula will be adjusted and archer gear will receive bonus spellpower where it's needed. 

[timber saffron]

RP and aoe is very cringe, i hope this spell will fix some stuff https://gyazo.com/1661f0e18194bb59816cee4749bb8016

im not asking for aoe here, but atleast let us try the spell solo thats all i want, obviously it is best to use in team and not solo but please dont limit us in atleast trying

[flat mist]

Would be great if patched gives dex/str/spellp, similar to angelic legs.

Also, rare/task/only crafted itens could be more “niched”, with it specialty set into stone, for example: hydra scale legs giving high dexterity (comparing to similar tier itens) and nothing more

[haughty wigeon]

mages and knights alrdy have so many other boots though

[steep herald]

We literally spent the last couple weeks saying we dont want more damage than mages lol

[flat mist]

Yeah. Staff could turn one of those rare boots in a Paladin one, giving dex+stream only

[elder locust]

@hallow minnow dont forget golden boots 😄

[haughty wigeon]

golden is ek boots obviously

[elder locust]

Nop, put attribute differences, like angelic legs.

[cold willow]

Patched is obviously going to have dexterity, same as white dress is going go have wisdom (spell power sounds super gay). People are always going to cry and complain about something. Just because you own something now doesn’t mean it should have strange stats just to cater to your needs. Come on lol

I bet sulphiras scale mail will have dexterity

[analog flax]

My two main concerns atm:

Weapons that are quest rewards should not have level restriction. We already have a system that prevents abuse so only a chracter who finished the quest/faction is able to use the weapon.

What happens with, let's say, giant energy elementals with the rune damage huge nerf? Pretty sure it's going to be A LOT worst after the nerf to hunt there as a paladin or knight.

[red citrus]

^ there'll be more and more examples like that, same applies to all the gfb spots and spots with high melee dmg monsters where explo was main source of dmg - because of that reason i believe better idea was to change timer and adjust atk on 2h weapons for knights

[timber saffron]

all my main hunting spots will be nerfed, cant gfb 10 bedsores/nightmares or 16demorcs as efficient anymore, but hopefully new good hunting ways will be made

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/888897648403288114/1113118193096073296/image.png

[gentle hawk]

single target dmg buff will certainly outperform the sum of nerfed aoe dmg, rangers and knights will come out blazing, one hitting cyclops and breaking hydra spawn 30 lvl earlier

[faint dagger]

Archers should be less runes relient, strong with single target ammunation. variable in physical and elemental damage.

Maybe some spells like "piercing shot" hiting 3 targets aligned while active (ex: 150 mana and last 6 seconds, or 10 seconds duno), 100% damage on the first target, 80% on second and 50% on the last target. While Spell is active you cant throw offensive runes? maybe? Dont need to be something so overpower, I jsut want to play as Archer in a TF doing something useful, like, not picking all the loot because damage from Archers is kinda bad

aligned monster should be diagonal, horizontal and vertical.

Just a sugestion, i would liek to se Archer being a real Archer

Archers today is like a Druid without Sio and a Sorcerer without AOE damage. Shoting SD mainly because Archer cant do a proper damage usign ur bow and crossbow.

[vivid depot]

I agree completely that classes should have their own identity. But Im unsure people are ready for that. Theres something keeping people wanting to use runes for everything, rather than focusing on a rework.

[faint dagger]

Medivia changed a lot, I think this change will create a real indentity for Archers, thats the word, IDENTITY. PPl rather hutn with sorcerer and Druids because they do more damage on SD, Archer is only useful to carry loot. Archers need their on indentity

Druid heal the team, Knights tank and sorcerer do the main damage. Archer carry loot 🙂

[vivid depot]

Did you get a chance to play Dark and Darker playtest?

[faint dagger]

No :S

[vivid depot]

Ah well I wont go off topic. Check it out though.

[cold willow]

9 days till update what is finalized? Are we gonna test eks or what lol

[willow shard]

I will assume that the update will only be the gear rework with str/dex/int aswell as new dmg formulas for all classes based on those stats. This includes proper scaling for redbox attacks on Archers and Knights. We should have another testserver prior to that indeed.

[raven violet]

Bro get off your high horse, paladins have been broken for like 25 years and they are finally not broken. Why would you get 700 hp more than a mage but deal same damage????

How many times as paladin do you die from Insta combo?

[summer nexus]

If paladins weren’t currently broken I doubt the Devs would prioritize their rework above other stuff people have been asking for months. Stay in your lane

[glad condor]

can’t wait to UE and mort hur on a paladin

[willow shard]

Did you tag the wrong guy? Because I'm not your bro, I don't have a horse and I never said Archers should have 700 hp more than a mage and deal the same damage. And if I did, I would've provided some logical reasoning behind why, which would've been an answer to your question. So... Don't ask me and don't tag me. I'm tired of discussing things with people who imply that I've said something that I haven't.

[haughty wigeon]

will we get another test server or? @hallow minnow

[hallow minnow]

Yes, there will be another test server launched as soon as it is possible.

[glad condor]

today, this weekend? Next week?

[hallow minnow]

We are planning to open the test server this weekend.

[finite ice]

this test server will have updated Database?

[hallow minnow]

Yes. It has been updated, skills were merged and new experience formula was applied to all characters.

[finite ice]

nice cant wait is it starting tomorrow or saturday?

[ripe mural]

What about new dmg formulas for other vocs?

[hallow minnow]

I did not mention the obvious:

• removal of +dist, +mlvl +melee attributes and properties,
• introduction of strength, dexterity, intelligence properties and attributes
• formula changes,
• new spell for archer & knight.

[vivid depot]

yoo new knight spell?

nice

[crisp quail]

[thick wagon]

show us new spell of archer

[lyric junco]

Can we all join the test server?

[muted umbra]

man eldrin just answerd few hours ago

[lyric creek]

Do you have a table that shows the old and new damage of the paladins in question to weapons?

[hallow minnow]

+------+-------+--------------+---------------+---------------+--------------+-------+
| Lvl. | Skill | Weapon       | Old           | New           | Diff         | %     |
+------+-------+--------------+---------------+---------------+--------------+-------+
| 50   | 85    | BOW          | 10-159 (84)   | 41-184 (112)  | 31-25 (28)   | 33.33 |
| 75   | 89    | BOW          | 15-210 (112)  | 57-250 (153)  | 42-40 (41)   | 36.6  |
| 100  | 92    | ANCIENT_XBOW | 20-226 (123)  | 65-273 (169)  | 45-47 (46)   | 37.39 |
| 125  | 96    | ANCIENT_XBOW | 25-240 (132)  | 73-296 (184)  | 48-56 (52)   | 39.39 |
| 150  | 99    | ANCIENT_XBOW | 30-278 (154)  | 85-349 (217)  | 55-71 (63)   | 40.9  |
| 175  | 102   | ANCIENT_XBOW | 35-290 (162)  | 93-369 (231)  | 58-79 (69)   | 42.59 |
| 200  | 105   | ANCIENT_XBOW | 40-302 (171)  | 100-390 (245) | 60-88 (74)   | 43.27 |
| 250  | 108   | ANCIENT_XBOW | 50-314 (182)  | 112-412 (262) | 62-98 (80)   | 43.95 |
| 300  | 110   | PRIM_BOW     | 60-323 (191)  | 124-427 (275) | 64-104 (84)  | 43.97 |
| 350  | 112   | PRIM_BOW     | 70-331 (200)  | 136-441 (288) | 66-110 (88)  | 44.0  |
| 400  | 114   | PRIM_BOW     | 80-339 (209)  | 147-457 (302) | 67-118 (93)  | 44.49 |
| 450  | 116   | SACRED_XBOW  | 90-365 (227)  | 163-497 (330) | 73-132 (103) | 45.37 |
| 500  | 118   | SACRED_XBOW  | 100-374 (237) | 174-513 (343) | 74-139 (106) | 44.72 |
| 550  | 120   | ANNIHILATOR  | 110-411 (260) | 192-569 (380) | 82-158 (120) | 46.15 |
| 600  | 123   | ANNIHILATOR  | 120-426 (273) | 205-597 (401) | 85-171 (128) | 46.88 |
| 650  | 125   | ANNIHILATOR  | 130-456 (293) | 221-645 (433) | 91-189 (140) | 47.78 |
+------+-------+--------------+---------------+---------------+--------------+-------+

[faint dagger]

what means this number on ()? for example, between 50 and 75 level diff have (112), what that mean?

[haughty wigeon]

avg dmg......................

[haughty wigeon]

i guess old annihilator dmg is with nerfed annihilator like it was on test server?

[lyric creek]

Eldrin, bows level cap has been decided?

How gonna stay "minimum level" of each?

[hallow minnow]

Here you can see only raw formula damage, no target, no attributes (except Flawless). No armor reduction or no armor ignoring.

[faint dagger]

I've seen somethinh about Ancient crossbow being for level 200, while its a quest for lvl 100, have this changed?

[hallow minnow]

I believe I mentioned it in another thread: quest items will have level "requirement" lowered, even if item's item level is higher than required level.

[lyric creek]

With this... Sacred Arbalest now is 300+?

[hallow minnow]

Sacred arbalest is an item level 400 weapon. But you will get full stats at a lower level. About level 300-350.

[wheat oracle]

Shadowfall Crossbow will be 400+?

[trim hemlock]

If I use e.g. Arbalest at a lower level, will I only under-utilize Dexterity or also other features, such as Holy damage?

[hallow minnow]

Just dexterity will be affected.

[trim hemlock]

And will this nerf scale with level difference between required and char's current or is it hardwired?

[hallow minnow]

The closer you are to "required level", the lower the penalty.

[trim hemlock]

Thanks for clarification. Looking forward to the changes, all sounds really cool, congrats! 😉

[timber saffron]

550 for annihilator? yikes

[ripe jungle]

i'm parachuting into all the rework discussions, have they released what the new archer spell will look like and will there be a change to rune damage?

[timber saffron]

less rune dmg

more arrow dmg

overall same dmg

[ripe jungle]

got it, I started reading about the changes, only the arrow damage table was published, was the runes damage table published?

[scarlet dust]

with const mlvl 25:

[willow shard]

@hallow minnow You know what I think about "the spell", how it's impossible to balance it well and why I think that you are making a mistake with it. The classidentity of the Archer will change completely and it also looks like Archers will be too strong. It's madness IMO and not the outcome I wanted from this discussion.

Anyway, now since you seem to have decided to add it to the game I will say this about toggleable spells. Why do they have a duration? What's the point of them not being infinite? Same goes for mana shield and the new knight spell. It's just clunky that a "permanent" stance has a somewhat long duration rather than being on until canceled.

[willow shard]

Also, do you have any plans for the Ethereal Spear and/or training dummies? Currently high distance characters can take a training dummy to red health alone, they can probably end up killing them aswell if unlucky. With the damage revamp we're going to do even more damage with the spear and so using training dummys on an Archer is gonna be very frustrating since it'll die.

[near jolt]

I find I sometimes kill it with 132 dist and no extra distance eq on so I can imagine people with higher dist.. it’s especially frustrating when I’m afk so I’d like to see an update with this too.

[stiff linden]

Ethereal stone with 1 atk when?

[molten karma]

IMO weapons/bows that are rewards from completing factions shouldn't have level requirement - if you've finished Sheol, you should be able to use your reward.

[faint dagger]

So Archers should be excluded from team hunt because their damage sux? Archer is only useful to grab loot, change is needed. Or change Archer damage formula to be kinda useful or change Archer promotion to Royal Backpack...

[willow shard]

No, but as I've said plenty of times in this thread I think that Archers should've been fixed with either big armor debuff arrows that buffs mages and druids SD damage. Another alternative is a damage increase buff spell for party. Having shared exp bonuses based on bringing different vocations would also be a step in the right direction. Archers will and should always be the looter, that won't ever change.

I'm just saying that if I wanted to play a class with low health I would definitely rather play mage or druid with their arsenal of spells and burst arrows. I think the new Archer spell is a bad and lazy fix that is impossible to balance. Having the spell on 24/7 will be the new meta cuz it won't be economically justifiable to SD things with yet another nerf to rune damage. So now we are just a boring version of mage/druid that walks slow af, has no fun or useful spells to use other than haste and incuro vita and we deal insane damage. Yay. It's too late to stop it now I guess.

[faint dagger]

"Another alternative is a damage increase buff spell for party" Thinking in a RPG style, Archers is not supposed to buff anyone... not so tank and not so weak but with a good single target damage. mage should be more AOE focussed, druid in the way it is is fine, good support and Ek on tanking and holding aggro.

Archer nowadays is like a DUCK, fly, swim and walk. But of this 3 things he doesn't do anything right, he flies disastrously, walks crookedly and swims badly. While EK, ED and MS do their job very well... So I think Archer need their indentity...

[willow shard]

While I agree with you, I have been in this discussion for a long time and this idea came to mind in a desperate attempt to compromise. Because in my opinion, for identity, anything is better than the spell we're about to get.

Now the spell that Eldrin is implementing is a massive massive buff for Archers but it also eliminates the purpose of playing an Archer. I understand how players who look at numbers will praise this spell but as I've said before, if we're going to go down this route why not delete the class altogether instead? Would be less of a headache for everyone. Who in their right mind would create an Archer to be a mage with no spells and no aoe, only to be able to toggle up your HP and lose a tremendous amount of damage in doing so?

[vivid depot]

I see all of this as a step in a direction that might end up with all classes having their own unique feel. Lotta people losing their shit on the very first iteration makes so little sense.

[faint dagger]

I agree with that, but somethingmsut be done to improve archer single damage

[vivid depot]

Really? You agree with "I've been in this conversation a long time.... .... Anything is better than the spell [Archers] are about to get." ???

[faint dagger]

I disagree, We are discussing something that exists. By your argument it would be better to close the feedback channel, since discussing current ideas does not make sense because supposedly in the future something will fit with the subject of the present and "explain" or make us understand what we are discussing now at this moment, it would be better close the channel, because any idea will be refuted with the argument of "I don't know why we are worrying now if they (Medivia Staff) are thinking about something in the future". So no point to keep this chats open 🙂

[vivid depot]

Incredible. Im not saying anything about closing the channel. You just agreed with that other mindlet that you would rather there not even be any changes than test how all the changes even perform together when they're fully implemented.

https://tenor.com/view/cat-typing-typing-on-computer-computer-work-laptop-gif-21481919

[faint dagger]

Actually no, Im saying that changes need to be made. I dont think this spell fit right for an ARCHER on a RPG game.

[vivid depot]

Then you dont understand what it means to agree with someone lol

[willow shard]

That's what testservers are for. We already tested this spell, you probably didn't, I mean you don't even play the game, do you? Then there's pure logics aswell as experience that I'm able to draw a lot of conclusions from without having to test everything suggested in here. I'm all for changes.

[faint dagger]

I partially agree, is better for u now ?

[vivid depot]

You tested one part of the whole. Now you're an expert I get it.

[faint dagger]

just to point out, this change will be for the last content that will be released, Archer need a revamp IMO, not something to fix it IFFFFFFFFF you complete a questline

[vivid depot]

Im glad you added that IMO

[faint dagger]

and sacrifice HP/sustain/defense to get damage boost is more likely for Knights (Like a Rage/Berserker) or by Sorcerers. Archers doing this doesnt make sense at all, at least from all RPGs I have played I never have seen this before..

[faint dagger]

ofc, everyone that is talking here are giving their own opinion, u really need to ppl tell those things to u? xD

[vivid depot]

🙂

[restive marsh]

Is there a fixed time when the update is releasing? Together with the new server or before?

[willow shard]

no, before

[raw copper]

Can we get full stats if we have aividem done on angelic items? Perhaps not full aividem but bishop kill as the owner of the task, the main rp of my team got lvl 360 recently but he has been using it since 280 when we got it.

Those lvl req seems a bit off for odyssey. I have full white light at level under 300 but umbral itens will be nerfed for me and others ppl who have done the questline

[bitter geode]

Fuck odyssey

[tight tulip]

you dont play with archer for sure!

[glad condor]

Open test server!

[gentle hawk]

game is balanced around regular servers, not for fun oddities

[haughty wigeon]

they wont get nerfed they will just keep scaling until that lvl and thats when u will get full value so its not gonna be worse than other items even if u are lower lvl

[raw copper]

I'm not asking to balance things around odyssey, sure we choose to have more difficulty.
It seems questline items will be full unlocked like angelic legs as long you done the quest no matter of your level, I'm asking if the same treatment can be given for others items that come from the same questline

[raw copper]

Yeah but like I will be able to wear angelic legs to its full potential but not other angelic helmet/boots for example.
I'm just asking if he says no is no

I mean, can't umbral items be fully unlocked too if I got one angelic legs by myself?

[willow shard]

What's good with items having a high itemlevel is that you (the gear) is gonna keep having good scaling as you level up. I don't see the problem at all, to me it's just motivating to get more levels if the gear gets better with it too. Your current gear is gonna be great btw even if you're "underleveled". You get full stats other than the str/dex/int ones... and str/dex/int are level capped anyway so you wouldn't get more stats by downgrading your gear.

Let's say that Angelic Helmet is itemlevel 300 and gives 30 dexterity
You are level 240, which is 80% of level 300. This means that you get 80% of 30 dexterity, which is 24 dexterity. For every 10 levels you get, you gain 1 extra dexterity from your helmet up until you reach level 300.
Downgrading in this case is generally a mistake, let's say you go for Ent mask which has an itemlevel of 200, but only gives 20 dexterity. Now you lose out on 4 dexterity.

These are just made up values but this is how I've interpreted the system. All itemstats remains the same except for str/dex/int. Am I right @hallow minnow?

[hallow minnow]

All other stats (except for +dist, that will be removed) remain the same, no matter your level.

[raw copper]

I agree with your view, I'm wondering what will be for example those bis items from sheol bosses, cuz ppl are getting it done on lower level characters with help sure but still they will be able to wear the ultimate prize while being more than 100 lvls under the gear looted from bosses defeated along the way

Which is not a problem for odyssey, I mean overall

If those sheol bosses items come with level 500 550, ppl who are farming them will see themselves piling up items cuz it will more unlikely to ppl buy

[finite ice]

is test server on?

[cyan crown]

Are you seeing anywhere people saying they are online? Commenting about the changes?

[finite ice]

well maas took some stats out of nowhere xD

so i thought it was on, and we were told there will be one this weekend 😛

[willow shard]

i literally wrote they were made up values

[finite ice]

see i didnt read ur entire post 😛 i just read the stats part

[buoyant mesa]

Level brackets for items are amazing. Contrary to what people believe, I think it's actually going to help the economy because people will look for items that benefit their vocation instead of running hf set on all chars.

[finite ice]

was there dmg formula posted for pallies?

[flat mist]

People will also stick to low ~ medium tier itens for a while, increasing their value. I personally want to see Serenity's economy with those changes.

[buoyant mesa]

@flat mist Exactly. Players spend tons of money to attribute the set that nobody wants to buy afterward since everyone is looking for BiS. Now they will have BiS but for their level bracket. Win-win situation. Well done Eldrin 👏

[haughty wigeon]

high lvl stuff will still be bis on low lvls though

[buoyant mesa]

Will it? That sucks. I thought this update will fix all these 200s with full umbral sets purchased off facebook for $7 on orsh rates but oh well

[flat mist]

I personally prefer level brackets for items, you really feel a progression/achievment when you reach it. But idm if the staff wanna to let them use sheol itens on lower levels

[gentle hawk]

no but an exemplary table for some values, scroll up

[finite ice]

yeah, seen it but im way above average with my dist which my dist is 110 which on table is placed at lvl 300

dunno how much level plays role in dmg in medivia

[buoyant mesa]

I don't mind low levels using full BiS gear if they can afford it but it's not really healthy for the game. Picture this:
You swipe the card at level 150 for that fancy umbral/sheol set and get full bonuses from items which drops from monsters you won't even encounter for another 250 levels. Essentially skipping most of the content, the joy of upgrading your gear as the levels raise and most importantly making all the lower tier items completely irrelevant and not worth farming in most cases.

Sorry for off topic, maybe we could move all the gear posts people made here to another thread

[faint dagger]

ye, so enchanting/atributting itens should be more friendly, since we will have many sets per level range

Or an increase on drops of itens with att at least..imagine u att all sets till end game? ppl buy BIS itens because will be one time attributing and thats it, u have ur set till levle 500.

@half oriole for example, if Im lvl 150 using end game gear, I will lose "power", So I must use itens from my level range, so every 50 levels? I will need to change my atributed gear to the one of my level, so it means that you will need to waste tons of gold every level range gear. Nowadays you buy the best itens with att and thats it, you can keep this itens till level 600. With this new item level/power you will need to change your gear every level range making u waste money att all over again.

[buoyant mesa]

Not really because once people get out of the item level bracket, they will sell their EQ to people who are IN that level bracket, therefore keep the economy rolling

[stiff linden]

You won't lose power, you'll just not get the full potencial of the high lvl gear, we'd need to test to see how much dex you'd get using something high lvl VS recommended lvl

[faint dagger]

I understand, but do you think its fair for example, Fiery bow for level 150, then u waste 10KK to get it full because this item is horrible to full att, than you get ur level 200 and need to change it to another item, you will never sell fiery bow for 10KK.

[faint dagger]

yes, things might be more clear

[narrow void]

and since you have the BiS item on your level 20 char, although you won't get the full Dex from the BiS, you won't need to change equip until you get the BiS level, since you will be constantly progressing and using near the 100% dex from the BiS item.

[buoyant mesa]

We'll have to wait and see how much % of full value you get from the item if you're underleveled. I believe anything above 50% will be pushing it because then there's no reason to upgrade gear as you progress, just get BiS lvl 8 if possible.

[finite ice]

waiting for test on and i can compare full angelic and umbral plate clean at 114 lvl

[jolly scroll]

will we see lvl required on items with shift or somehow?

[elder locust]

@hallow minnow
level 550 to use Anihilator? Don't do this with the game, it will demotivate even more the old crowd.
Another thing, where is Shadowfall, the "passive" death damage needs to be examined, seriously, don't do that, lv 500 is already difficult to get back playing solo, imagine 550.

[molten karma]

100% weapons that are rewards from factions and require faction completion shouldn't have level restrictions.
The 550 is potentially to get full power, but still feels bad

[raw copper]

If I'm not mistaken reward items will be full unlocked as long you have done the quest yourself @molten karma @elder locust

[timber saffron]

cant even shoot bow if u havnt done quest

[raw copper]

@timber saffron forgot to mention that I remember reading it, but not sure if was from staff.
It was said in a generic way like items reward will be fully unlocked as long you did the quest.
Didn't know about that restriction in sheol xd

I believe it was said by eldrin but not sure so better not say it was kek

[finite ice]

never seen it 😮 prolly someone proposed it

[raw copper]

@timber saffron @finite ice @elder locust @molten karma

[molten karma]

hard to follow across multiple threads. looking forward to those juicy patch notes 😄

[raw copper]

That's was the reason that earlier I said that since this will happen, some other items could be linked to the same idea.

Makes no sense being able to wear the anihi bow but don't have level to wear some bis gear looted from bosses on the way, those items could be lifted the lvl req alongside the bow if you had done the quest

[hallow minnow]

Test server should be open in about an hour. Here is a download link to test game client. It will be required to log into the test server. https://download.medivia.online/medivia-test.zip

[glad condor]

Can we have a summary of what has changed so we know what to test

[finite ice]

any linux clients? 😮

doesnt matter made it run xd

[foggy current]

anyone else having trouble to download the test serv?

[hallow minnow]

Test server is now open.

[haughty wigeon]

why do i get paralyzed when using new paladin spell when moving

[finite ice]

@hallow minnow sorry for wrong channel
this is what i mean

heavy arrow
18:50 Distance damage (dexterity: 95): 25->252 (old) => 148-348 (new)

hunting arrow
18:50 Distance damage (dexterity: 95): 25->252 (old) => 148-348 (new)

heavy bolt
18:49 Distance damage (dexterity: 106): 25->265 (old) => 159-374 (new)

hunting bolt
18:49 Distance damage (dexterity: 106): 25->272 (old) => 160-380 (new)

on live i hit way more than 25>298 with hunting arrow seen 299 to mobs

changed my stances to full att didnt notice that

hunting bolt
18:57 Distance damage (dexterity: 106): 25->323 (old) => 169-427 (new)

heavy boilt
18:57 Distance damage (dexterity: 106): 25->314 (old) => 168-419 (new)

hunting arrow
18:57 Distance damage (dexterity: 95): 25->298 (old) => 156-391 (new)

heavy arrow
18:57 Distance damage (dexterity: 95): 25->298 (old) => 156-391 (new)

[rich dock]

Hi, Horned Helmet should have dextery too... they should be used by paladins and Knights same as you did with golden boots @hallow minnow

[chrome wigeon]

my house and my items D:

[glad condor]

@hallow minnow Without spell heavy arrows deal less damage than hunting arrows. Heavy arrows used to have damage of piercing arrows when spell was not enabled.
Heavy arrows: Distance damage (dexterity: 181): 96->345 (old) => 323-581 (new)
Hunting arrows: Distance damage (dexterity: 181): 96->421 (old) => 339-659 (new)

[finite ice]

126 lvl 110 dist 20 mlvl with spell i deal this with heavy bolt
19:08 Distance damage (dexterity: 106): 25->568 (old) => 215-653 (new)
heavy arrow
19:09 Distance damage (dexterity: 95): 25->544 (old) => 202-618 (new)

heavy arrow doesnt do the special dmg from bows either its like old hunting bolt/arrow

[glad condor]

You need spell to enable their damage

But they are supposed to hit as hard as piercing arrows without the spell

[ornate merlin]

attributed golden quiver doesnt seem to change anything and shows no bonuses

[finite ice]

got spell on i hit harder thats for sure

[candid narwhal]

@hallow minnow golden quiver is not showing any added properties. also attributing items doesnt seem to be increasing the dexterity value

[finite ice]

without the spell i hit 8 dmg less with heavy bolt than with hunting bolt

[glad condor]

yes its bugged

[finite ice]

does the dist increases any dex?

if i count dex that is in bracket it should be 57 and i have 106

[candid narwhal]

also is the 10 minute cast time of pally spell removed? seems to be until its toggled off now?

[finite ice]

fisting is viable now

45 fist on live gives me this in test

19:20 Distance damage (dexterity: 86): 25->208 (old) => 68-240 (new)

XD

[chrome wigeon]

will this new spell be party only?

I really hope so. I'm so overpowered now

[finite ice]

i dont have party but my hp goes from 1.2k to 764

and speed goes down by 150

[chrome wigeon]

I think we can use it without party so we can test now

[polar sage]

@hallow minnow idk if its a bug or not but if while using the arcane marksman ur hp isnt full and u canel the spell and reactivate it u get full hp back, is it intended?

also, any chance u gonna add some speed to webcralwer boots?

[regal field]

Is it correct that there is no dex on golden quiver?

[high cobalt]

there's no intelligence on rune pouch, great rune pouch, also no dexterity on quiver or golden quiver

apparently archini weapons also dont have stats

also which vocation do you now intend to be looters? archers are gonna be slow af with the spell and unable to keep up in a teamhunt if looting, and im not pressing the spell hotkey 2 times with every pull of monsters :D

[indigo nimbus]

The movement speed reduction staying is really strange as it will completely counteract what you intended with the spell.

Also we have the same HP on live and test server even though we are lower levels with the new formula.

[glad condor]

Can you add some indication that the spell is active? maybe some outline on the character

Can you make it so if you have spell off it will try to use hunting arrows from quiver first and if not found only then heavy arrows? No matter what spot ammo is on

[tawny quiver]

what does Intelligence does for an Archer:

[finite ice]

higher dmg from runes? 😛

its spellpower just renamed i guess

btw i dont think dex is calculated properly on my char it said 106 dexterity but if i counted the dex in brackets it gave me 57 only.

[hallow minnow]

It is, but message is wrong, it does not take reduction into account. It still is calculated properly, though. Actually it should be correct.

[finite ice]

so my dex is calculated correctly and its 106? if i understand right? btw does dist increases dex too?

[glad condor]

The speed reduction actually feels really bad. Especially that eks gain more damage for no cost and for lower penalty. Really weird

[haughty wigeon]

with how buffed knights are, we are legit gonna turn into worst solo voc because they can actually use their spell while soloing strong monsters while we cant and without spell they are gonna do way more single target dps than us even if we use sds.

[fresh schooner]

the spell feels at the moment for nothing. will be max. a on/off spell all the time.
dont really see a "buff" on paladin atm.

[haughty wigeon]

I mean I was soloing blasphemers in 3 sds with it and black widows in 2, its extremely good on weaker monsters but absolutely suicidal on a lot of stronger monsters, I mean sure its supposed to be a team hunting spell but a flamebringer turned around and 1 shot me on 607 with it active so yea......

[candid narwhal]

but in team hunts its going to be horrible to try and keep up, especially if youre stuck in the looting role.

[fresh schooner]

paly cant loot with that slow moving spell anymore just if you turn it off all the time :p

[elder locust]

Seems like knight will be better single target dps than pal after this update, which sucks

[high cobalt]

how does the new distance damage formula work? how much does skill affect it or dexterity? @hallow minnow

[fluid apex]

full golden quiver doesnt guive dex? is that right?

[willow shard]

I don't think that this update can launch this month, things are too imbalanced.

Redbox attacks with top gear are way too powerful for both knights and archers. It's also too cheap, I think that you should probably add something like weapon oils for knights aswell as more expensive ammunition for archers to achieve damage anywhere close to what you can now. (Still only taking Hunting Arrows and Hunting Bolts into account here because that's all we use on 1x, also I barely tested Archer this testserver)

Examples with top gear:
465 EK killed 1 Undead Dragon with 16 UHs and no other runes
465 EK killed 1 Demon in 10 hits with 1 UH and no other runes

Runedamage nerf is way too big. Now that autoattacks are so strong it's counterintuitive to use runes at all, especially expensive damaging runes. You can't keep nerfing SD on Archers, they're just not economically viable to use anymore. Because you are balancing the game around Legacy right? It's probably time to remove SD's from Archers and give us a cheaper alternative for single target physical damage... if you want to keep Archer damage down.

[chrome wigeon]

I'm scared. a lot of big changes in all vocations making balancing the game even harder. I really hope the devs don't rush this update and make sure it's as close as being perfect as possible before launching it

[haughty wigeon]

its gonna have to be rushed if they wanna release it before new server which worries me a lot after what i saw on test today, like seriously i dont see how they will be able to balance it in a few days these changes needs to get delayed seriously

[chrome wigeon]

=/

[lyric junco]

then new server will be full of eks+rps meta

[high cobalt]

cant "look" at burst arrows

[red citrus]

I'd rather have no update than something like that, rushed and half baked

[candid narwhal]

dont worry bro, theres still a week

[light belfry]

Archers with Sheol weapon double hit, the new best vocation. Please look how to balance this! It’s my feedback

New bolts, new spell plus double hit Sheol weapon = amazing

[jolly scroll]

which boots are for paladin between patched and torment? except gold cause they are shit just 20 speed..

[candid narwhal]

magic plate, leg crawler, quicksand

web crawler? idk what theyre called

black widow boots

[scarlet dust]

xbows are gone, please restock 🫡

[jolly scroll]

quicksand are for 220 lvl and patched for 300

and i asked for boots between patched(300) and torment (500)

[inland trail]

i think fully attributed patched are for up to 450 no?

[brisk wyvern]

I think the damage increase is welcomed, but the spell and ammo should be relooked at. (I'd personally be happy with just the overall dmg buff from normal ammo as an interim solution until something more tested can be implemented)

I like the whole gear relating to dmg increase etc also, gives some items which are mid tier a bit of a reason to be attributed, some items are still strange (for instance albino scale mail is still 10kk to get full on average)

[molten karma]

it's going in next week before new server!

[jolly scroll]

nope they are with same dexterity at 300 lvl as full and as clean

@hallow minnow do we have only patched(300lvl) and torment (500lvl) boots with good speed as paladins? or are there any other boots between them with good speed also?

[faint dagger]

thx mate, I just tested it and saw how it works,

[somber crag]

how can we get the new ammon in the test server?

[jolly scroll]

why when im using arbalest/shadowfall xbow with heavy ammo i dont hit additional holy/death dmg??? its gonna be like this or its bug on test serwer for now?

[chrome wigeon]

!reward tp get new ammo and !reward tp to get to the items room

[gentle hawk]

Same feedback as for knights, new formula is fine, it is just the spell and the big ammo you can use during its duration that feels way too OP to me

[timber saffron]

-I am still missing the conjure piercing arrow/bolt and heavy arrow/bolt spell

-Still have no idea on the costs of new ammo or if there has been adjustment in piercing arrows price

-first attribute on items with precise is bugged, u get gray border but no attribute is added

[haughty wigeon]

honest opinion scrap everything except item rework and lvl squish, theres just no way anything else will be ready next week. Balance is not something u fix in a few days and it requires extensive testing not just a 2 day test server

[timber saffron]

Postpone squish aswell, first focus on balance!

[short nest]

#1122232681489506465 message

[red citrus]

Honestly this

[gentle hawk]

item rework is linked with new formulas. if anything, take lvl squish and skill merge live, take more time for the rest if necessary

[willow shard]

I vote yes for postponing everything including the server launch, aswell as SCRAPPING the idea of both the knight and archer spells. Both spells and everything that comes with it are very difficult to balance, especially when we have a huge revamp coming alongside that.

You have set this clearly very optimistic deadline and to me it seems that a big majority of your playerbase says this is way overtuned and/or imbalanced. I fear that you'll ruin the game for good with this update, because once you've given the kids their candy it's too rough taking it back. It would hurt the game a lot if you did. So please, one thing at the time, do it right and take your time. Hell we don't even have rubick, iron nou and rakshy in here complaning, we are doing the work for them now.

[knotty creek]

I dont get why Staff is trying to change damage formulas.....

The level formula i get the reasons behind it...... But the damage, and the items and all??? Medivia is such a well balanced between vocations game in my opinion.... Why risk changing it all for no reason? The first thing that crossed my mind when i logged in test server was "well, Brian finally managed to break the game just because of how much he complains about things that dont need to be changed....."

[finite ice]

@eldrin any updates about pallies? do they work as intended?

[hallow minnow]

Test server will be temporarily closed to address one of the issues. Please patiently wait for it to open again.

[polar sage]

I agree but i think still some fix is needed for rp team hunting

[knotty creek]

I dont fully agree. I would not mind small changes and tweeks to be honest, but every vocation on medivia has its ups and downs..... Paladins might not be the best for team hunting, but its not like they are useless by any means.... And thats also countered by the fact that Paladins are indeed better as a solo vocation.

Just as knights are not as good on dealing damage in some situations but are better for blocking....

[timber saffron]

As i mentioned on test i would really like to see piercing bolt/arrow added to spellbook!!! i want the choice to be able to go expensive and strong with heavy arrow or cheaper with piercing arrow.

[knotty creek]

not all vocations have to extremely good in everything on the game..... thats the beatuy of it

[red citrus]

I can't believe that somebody understand how proper balance should look like

[jolly scroll]

just wait and check what will be after changes they still work on it

[buoyant mesa]

These changes are crazy. All that game needed was better/more expensive ammo for archers, more consistant melee hits for knights and useful spell to burn mana on druid. Instead the zoo gate has been opened and these are the results.

[knotty creek]

In my opinon, Damage/Item changes are insane and unnecessary, i hope they dont get implemented.

[hallow minnow]

Test server is up.

[finite ice]

any tought on paladins from the data u have gathered?

[jolly scroll]

how to reset informations on new dummy target

[mint wind]

Ticket

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[jolly scroll]

full eq (sheol BIS), new spell, new ammo + sd and ure 607 MASTER archer - what did u expect? nothing crazy for me

think what u must waste to go here

[haughty wigeon]

i know + it was with fast hand proc while sharpshooter was active

[primal dew]

Thats like 60% more damage than Iron Nou 😂 if thats ok perhaps im playing a different game. Its clearly overtuned

[jolly scroll]

without spell and without sd

[gentle hawk]

i mean we just cut knight melee dmg by half on testserver because you could hit 2k with lvl 600, 190 skills and BIS weapon but sure, if it is rangers, 4.5k is fine 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️😘

[haughty wigeon]

well gonna have to spend a lot of time making these new arrows to even have a decent supply to even last 1 hunt

[gentle hawk]

yes imagine all the hard work of using large mana pot every 10s XD

[haughty wigeon]

at least i will be able to train my mlvl after this update

[chrome wigeon]

why is the new spell only available after completing the holy rose? we don't hunt in party until then?

[dusky solar]

How this spell works

[chrome wigeon]

40% less speed and hp but more damage from attacks and runes

[flat mist]

The spell will be locked behind Holy Rose?

[buoyant mesa]

Forget the cost. Itron just oneshot lvl 410 mage

[chrome wigeon]

yep

[flat mist]

LoL. Why not put it behind Eye of Flame or something easier? HR already give us a solid spell for th

[chrome wigeon]

ml 18, 0 mana

I agree it has to be behind something so it won't be used by any "makers"

but hr is a bit too much in my opinion

[faint dagger]

yes, Paladin are hitting 1.5K

[haughty wigeon]

because the spell reduces your hp and speed so u are gonna need some lvls before u start using it

[chrome wigeon]

I wish I could use it with my 180

I play with friends 80% of the time

[jolly scroll]

yes 400 paladin with set what u can see hitting 1,5k (hunting bolt + sd) whats strange? the same its currently without these changes

[flat mist]

I do agree. It will be insanely difficulty to do HR in new servers.

[gentle hawk]

yeh took people on progeny as long as 3 weeks

[flat mist]

War people made it in 2~3 days, but I know a lot that got PA’d while trying to do it in first month.

[jolly scroll]

i went try hunt solo with this new spell and new ammo its not worth so much. im so slow and easy to die as 400 rp vs chimeras/ashlords and also just 2 sd less for monster.. and im much slower so my xp/h will be just decreased. so this spell for sure will be used for team hunts only but IF IT WILL NOT SLOWING TEAM HUNT.

idk why DOT dmg like holy, death, primordial fire etc not works with new ammo - hope it will be fixed

[flat mist]

Just the life reduction would be 👌🏻. Speed is crucial to maximize exp/h, idk how we’re gonna use it in THs

[jolly scroll]

exactly when all will running so fast and ill have to toggle spell every each monster lol

[haughty wigeon]

• u gonna have to loot

[chrome wigeon]

they changed the mana cost to zero so we can toggle it all the time 😄

unless you need to run while attacking

[jolly scroll]

so because i dont waste mana for this spell then i can toggle it every each monster? sure very nice playstyle

[finite ice]

i see dexterity is being counted as it should now @hallow minnow it was wrong yesterday today shows me 57

[chrome wigeon]

true

[jolly scroll]

using this spell every monster is similar thing like skining every monster. we dont skin them cause waste time and we will not use this spell cause waste of time AND also tour

and the question when we have to grab loot in this case

[flat mist]

https://tenor.com/view/sadcat-gif-25701972

[flat mist]

Well, at least something. I can live with that until fixed

[jolly scroll]

we wanted better team hunting but after these changes all will be the same without spell or even worse with spell lol

[flat mist]

EKs have to inatio in every box, idm to toggle it too, even tho we’re losing a turn.

[jolly scroll]

in my opinion this spell shoould works like it is during solo hunt but when ure in party with shared exp then this spell shouldnt decrease speed just hp only

additionaly some restrictions during pvp (for example if u have skull then no matter if u in shared exp u will have decreased speed)

[finite ice]

how to reset the dummy in tp room?

[jolly scroll]

my observations:

• for example umbral boots should be hybrid for ek/rp and not only these boots but also some other ek items which are rly good for paladin also
• for example patched boots (16 dex) increases MAXIMUM dmg from ammo by 19 and 13 MAXIMUM dmg from sd. it means i can wear also anything else and ill lose just 16 dmg avg per tour even if im using sd. its just example on one item but clearly see - NO BALANCED there should be bigger stats of these new prop/attr and formula changed to see the real difference between eq if i wear eq for paladin or for mage which is not related to use.
• DOT dmg from bows/xbows must works with new ammo
• as 400 rp i'll have 1k~ dmg with sd + 400~dmg from xbow (=1,4k~) -> 450 druid will shot 2k~ dmg with sd + burst 400~ (aoe) (=2,3k~) NICE SINGLE TARGET PALADIN
• this spell gonna make our team hunts stupid hard... we will just toggle this spell every each monsters group... we will waste tour and time and we will not even have time to grab loot or go to lure monsters and use camouflage...
• during spell with hunting bolts we have no bigger dmg from regular ammo but from runes YES + we have all restrictions. what is this logic???
• paladins wanted to be more useful in team hunts but this spell will just make more problems and team hunts will be the same cost our toggling this shit spell or even worse in summarize

if i good remember the goal was to make vocations balanced like:

• mages best aoe dmg dealers,
• knights weaker dmg than other vocations but very tanky,
• paladins best single target dmg,
• druids healers and dmg from runes like mages

because its archer topic then.. where is this paladin dmg? Sds nerfed again and how can we use potential of this spell?
In my opinion this spell creating just much more problems and our team hunts will be annoying and still anyway better will be take other vocation.. and we will have to play like it wasn before

standing and not moving with full set, spell, ammo and taking calculations on cost of this etc - looks nice and if tests based only on this then gonna be nice... we will see what will happen when we start moving in team hunts or solo hunt

additionaly solo hunting with sds will be even more expensive

difference between piercing ammo vs hunting ammo is very low (around 30dmg) especially if we calc cost of both ammos

gl with balance each vocation in 5 days

[faint dagger]

hitting 1.5K only with arrow, without SD 🙂

[dusky solar]

For 20gp ehh

[jolly scroll]

ye at 600 lvl full torment set, full annihilator and attacking dummy target without armor.. logic from progeny/eternum where ppl dont even care for waste/profit with orsh loot

[haughty wigeon]

also those arrows arent 20gp each

[dusky solar]

If this is final form of rework, time to start playing archer:D

[timber saffron]

stop pulling numbers out your ass, with decent skills and full angelic set on a 430 ranger, u will hit about 8-900 max for 40gp, pretty similar to bursts where mages easy do 3-400 on 3 mobs at same time

[faint dagger]

the numbers are right, jsut the info was not completed, chill 🙂

[jolly scroll]

and ofc its dmg to dummy target without armor/phys res

[timber saffron]

im overall pretty ok with the changes, dmg has the potential to be sick, i feel motivated to grind for better gear, on the other hand im sad theres no piercing arrow spell

biggest buff for orshaot rate world where waste doesnt matter and u can use this arrow carelessly and have out of the ordinary amount of skills, magic level and easy acces to full sets

[rich dock]

pls add dex to horned helmet tooo

[bronze kindle]

Only one thing I would love to be changed: not miss the arrow hit. It makes any one not want to train dex/distance because no matter how high you still will miss the shot on rat as an example

[lofty python]

How looks new damge formula? For example whats differance in dmg between skill 80 and 81? And what is differance between skill 130 and 131? 🙂

[finite ice]

this.. i have already asked to see new damage formula but got no asnwer 😮

[fresh schooner]

Not much different. Just Check it out when you use +3 skill meal

[lofty python]

Dexterity on many items should be reworked. As there is no Precise attribute anymore. Items which were giving most precise should got most dexterity. After update Angelic Plate Armor will give less damage than Umbral… Before update You had less damage on Umbral but more speed and armor. Now after update APA will have less armor less damage and less speed 🙂

[haughty wigeon]

its intended cause umbral is intended for higher lvls

[lofty python]

Nope You cant compare like that. I am asking for same lvl with same weapon differance in dmg on skills. The higher distance You got more dmg differance between skills should be 🙂 For example dmg differance between skill 100 and 101 should be higher than from 50 to 51. As they said skill will matter more otherwise its no point for skill 🙂

[fresh schooner]

Ah okay 😄

[lofty python]

Yes and this should changed in my opinion 🙂

They said before lvl will have less impact in the game 😄

After update it looks like lvl will matter even more than before :p

As well its very big nerf for Anihilator bow which should be reworked as well. Right now it will be only Dexterity 40. Some sheol items gives more dexterity. The Anihilator should be highest Dexterity as its best items so far 🙂 Before update it used to give 6 precise total and now will be only 40 Dexterity, Angelic Legs were giving 3 precise and now will got 35 Dexterity 🙂

[haughty wigeon]

torment set is way harder to get than the bow fyi

[lofty python]

My sugestion. Keep Dexterity on basic properties and add Dexterity as attribute. Items which had before precise attribute will have now Dexterity attribute 🙂 So You dont loose attribute You paid for 🙂

[haughty wigeon]

thats alrdy happening

[lofty python]

And Angelic legs?

[lofty python]

Angelic legs got higher Dexterity than Shadowfall Crossbow fyi @haughty wigeon 🙂

[willow shard]

Okay so let's talk about item stats.

In every single game the developers run into the same problems, gearstats become too high and it's difficult to add more content while also avoiding power creep. This is because upgrades needs to be based on % or there won't be a noticable difference. Say you got 200 total dex and you get a "big" upgrade that increases your dex by 5. This will barely be noticable, because it's just a 2.5% increase. That's why developers makes huge increases for top tier items, to make them noticable, let's say the big upgrade instead gave an extra 20 dex, now that's a 10% upgrade which definitely is noticable and hence good.

Now, the problem described above is already in the game, how do they develop items for upcoming updates when we're already pretty far up in stat numbers, without messing up the overall balance of the game?

The best solution here in my opinion is to not have stats on weapons and shields, sure, archers, mages and druids will keep using full chaos shields and flaming aegises but I don't think that it's of much concern. We already achieve the goal of dismantling HF set from every character in the game. If you want to avoid it you could make it so that block attributes and stuff only works for knights. Which stats you decide to transfer attributes such as vast grip and precise to I don't know. But I think it would be great for future updates to not have str/dex/int on every item possible, because like I said it will be hard to release better items due to the % increase it requires.

[junior aspen]

when learning conjure heavy bolt/arrow i no longer can create arrows but npc says I have the spell? is there a fix

[somber crag]

what about golden quiver full att? wont give anything anymore?

[willow shard]

I'm sure it's a bug but IMO if you read what I wrote above, it shouldn't give more than 3 dex. we gotta keep the powercreep in check

and of course dex needs to be rebalanced in formula again

[flat mist]

So, EK's bloodlust is locked behind Eye of flame, but new paladin's spell is behind Holy Rose?

Please, @hallow minnow, change it. We already have camouflage as a good reward from HR faction, while from Eye of Flame is Hunting Bolt. Put new Arcane Marksmanship as Eye of Flame quest reward, please.

[haughty wigeon]

u cant compare the spells seriously u wont use the spell on low lvl anyway seriously

[jolly scroll]

@hallow minnow
we have heavy arrows and heavy bolts.
if u have heavy arrow and annihilator then it can be worth to use these heavy arrows

but in case of other weapons...

16:45 Distance damage (dexterity: 142): 77->647 (old) => 315-790 (new)** [shadowfall xbow + spell + heavy bolt(40gp)] = 790 dmg + 0(death) = 790 MAX dmg**
16:47 Distance damage (dexterity: 142): 77->374 (old) => 263-529 (new) [shadowfall xbow + hunting bolt (5gp)] = 529 + 100(death) = 629 MAX dmg

totaly no sense and not worth to use heavy bolts if DOT from xbows/bows is not works with heavy ammo

also during spell there is no dmg buff while using other ammo than heavy ????

[hallow minnow]

also during spell there is no dmg buff while using other ammo than heavy ????
Yes.

And DoT damage is something to be fixed. Also, target armor reduction is not counted there. It also applies to every physical damage that this monster will receive in next few seconds.

[steep herald]

We asked for our distance skill to matter and it doesnt matter a anyway after the new update, we asked for new ammunition and you can only use it with a retarded spell that is toggeable and that almost the entire rp community didnt want in the game, we asked for better team hunt options and now we have to toggle a retarded spell that wont allow us to take loot without getting behind everyone

Archer should stay as it is

Thank you for your effort but this update should be postponed to say the least

[timber saffron]

As i said i hope eldrin would still consider adding piercing arrow/bolt as conjure spell. Come on eldrin!!!!!!!!!!!

Tired of being a burst maker

[haughty wigeon]

u will make new ammo now instead tbh, like no reason not to

[jolly scroll]

@hallow minnow
casting spell every each monster group cause of paralyze during team hunt will slow us too much and will be really annoying to play like this.. our vocation have enough cap for looting so we have to do it anyway.

if u really want this spell so much in-game please remove paralyze while team hunting. Keep paralyze while not shared exp/player attacking

[vital prairie]

You gonna cry till next year to conjure piercing ammos? Holy shit

[flat mist]

Why wouldn’t I? It’s perfectly fine to use it in solo play at emperor scorpions, dragons, dragon lords, winged vermins and later on at ancient golems. Trading movespeed and HP for + damage on runes is too good at lower levels.
Moreover, I could pg by running full shield while gfbing stuff with spell active
Not taking into account THs with a blocker.

[haughty wigeon]

im not that slow with the spell tbh and i u can still use haste in it can still outrun ashlord and any monsters that dont paralyze

[jolly scroll]

go with your 600 lvls friends and check how fast u are while team hunting when u have to grab loot from X monsters every group and also catch them to do dmg... think also about all lvl range not only yourself and solo hunting -.-

[haughty wigeon]

im thinking about teamhunts as well

[jolly scroll]

what team hunts? killing monsters 1 by 1? where some of them can be even empty?

[lyric junco]

@jolly scroll sheol, snetinels, ancient watchers

[haughty wigeon]

other vocs can also loot u know druid can just put puri on knight while looting while ek runs to next monsters

[jolly scroll]

sure druid at 300-400 lvl will loot demorcs, gorgons, poa, blood witches etc

ure so smart xD waste time to explaining u. ure talking like u have never play in real team hunts except sd simulator 1 by 1 monster

[haughty wigeon]

no need to even use the spell when aoeing stuff though

[jolly scroll]

this spell increasing your spellpower which means your power of gfb/explo also hahah

please stop try to say anything more 😄

[haughty wigeon]

u should stop, spells purpose is to make us the highest single target voc with it active like some tiny extra gfb dmg is gonna matter

[jolly scroll]

yeah sure sherlock gl

[hallow minnow]

Are there any specific equipment that you feel is under or overpowered? Or that some item should be better than the other? I will ask this question in all threads, so keep your feedback related to the vocation the thread is about.

Also, let me ask this question: is there any gear combination that you can't use anymore? Stuff like fire resistance set, amplify magic set, etc., because you would be losing a lot of damage if you want to have specific set effect.

[timber saffron]

triangle star bow could get some love, its way down the line

[half oriole]

Helmet of the torment only 35 dex? Should be 45 as other sets prob mistype.

[hallow minnow]

Yes, that's a typo.

[jolly scroll]

1. umbral boots - should be used for both vocations (ek/rp) mostly cause of speed which should characterize the archer
2. patched boots should give some more dexterity there is a big gap between patched and golden/umbral boots
3. same thing with umbral/golden boots should gives more dex/strengh cause is a big gap with torment/suffering etc boots
4. shadowfall xbow should give more dexterity reason: angelic legs which are for lower lvl and gives 1 dex more already
5. sacred arbalest also should gives more dex cause is stronger than meteorite xbow

also annhilator gives 40 dex which propably shoud give more like 42/43/45 in this case

[deft cobalt]

Would be cool to see rps get an ice set, knights have icebound and magaes have permafrost. We can use both of these for some res but lose all damage for a small ice res.

Or just add rp atts to icebound

[hallow minnow]

1. Eventually, all vocations will get their own umbral boots. It is planned in the future.
2. A gap doesn't justify an item buff. It will eventually be filled with some items.
3. Same here.
4. This shouldn't be the case, weapons should give more stats than leg piece (with the same item level).
5. These two weapons have the same item level.

[flat mist]

@hallow minnow , I do appreciate you're listening to us. Please, could you say if you're going to change requirement to get Arcane Marksmanship from Holy Rose to Eye of Flame like EK's Bloodlust?

[hallow minnow]

No, there are no plans for that. This is to avoid abuse on lower level. It is a teamhunting, and not solo hunting spell and honestly, real teamhunting begins after you are most likely finished the faction. Bloodlust Stance is intended to be a solo hunting spell, available also on lower levels.

[haughty wigeon]

i feel like theres needs to be some legs between spider chain and angelic also spider chain legs are rly rare tbh

[finite ice]

this.. we need something to fill the gap

[fresh schooner]

So maybe really remove the speed debuff when share exp is activ ???

[haughty wigeon]

also kinda feel like triangle star bow should be better than vampiric

[trim hemlock]

this, we need to be able to catch up with the party; keep it for non-party users tho to prevent abuse

[tawny quiver]

should use less mana to cast. not hard to keep re-casting if mana cost doesnt impact much

[haughty wigeon]

it doesnt even cost mana to use lol

[tawny quiver]

wasnt it 60 or smth like that? maybe Im just high but I though so as of yesterday test server lol

my bad anyway

[trim hemlock]

wasn't it only for test server purpose?

[tawny quiver]

yeah I might be crazy but I thought it would be 60 or something. read it somewhere maybe 🤔

[finite ice]

what about toggle'able spell to be rendered above chat instead of top of the screen?

[timber saffron]

the spell to switch stance could it be changed so that it doesnt influence cooldown of healing?

[wheat oracle]

I think Shadowfall xbow need to be +1 atk them Sacred Arbalest...

[glad condor]

@hallow minnow the server log message about old damage is inaccurate, Im sure I hit above 500 sometimes on live servers with annihilator
19:03 Distance damage (dexterity: 191): 96->421 (old) => 347-671 (new)

[ripe mural]

dont compare to live server bsdk

the difference is new vs old formula AFTER squish

[glad condor]

so to what?

?

what

[ripe mural]

you must have lost some dmg due to squish itself?

[glad condor]

my max arrow damage doesnt change with lvl

[ripe mural]

like from lvl difference?

[glad condor]

lvl doesnt matter in max arrow damage rakshy

[somber crag]

question if I finish arquini faction on my character level 220 I wont be able to use the basic properties of the bow of the primordial fire untill I reach level 350?

[ripe mural]

so maybe its dexterity issue somewhere

[glad condor]

yes

i cant make proper comparison with corrupted data. Its super misleading as its showing bigger difference than it should show. Must be fixed asap @hallow minnow

[elder locust]

It is designed now so that rps wont use hellforged set at all?
There really doesn't seem to be much for rp to wear anymore, angelic and sheol set only..

[glad condor]

Theres plenty of items for rps to wear now

[finite ice]

this is false, i have seen myself hit 299 with crystalized bow with flawless and sharshooter on live and on test it says max dmg 298 in old formula

[elder locust]

ye for lvl 150-300 rps maybe

[hallow minnow]

You have lost all of your bonus distance fighting skill.

[candid narwhal]

how much impact will distance affect damage? i.e. whats the difference between 60 distance with 100 dex vs 110 dist with 100 dex?

[hallow minnow]

Dex is a flat bonus, so it doesn't matter how much there is. So this is how it looks like:

• old damage = dist 135, 0 dex
• new damage = dist 115, 200 dex

[glad condor]

yes so its misleading as the new damage is calculated with proper dexterity bonus

[finite ice]

will the equipment be compensated somehow for lost precise on them from attributes?

[glad condor]

dex

[finite ice]

so if u attri new eq u gain more dex? instead of precise?

[glad condor]

ye

[polar sage]

Skills matter alot on test server, on 394 rp 122 dist i hit less on arrows then a 290 rp 140 dist with same eq, and the 290 rp hit 190 dmg more

[finite ice]

so if item gave 2 dist it should give 20 dex to what eldrin mention above

1 dist = 10 dex

[glad condor]

@Eldrin any idea how can i make fair comparison then? Should I remove all eq?

[pearl raft]

whats gonna happen to all the attributes that people paid for that increased skill? You gonna just remove it and thats it? 0 compensation for money spent?

[finite ice]

thats what i m asking as well 😛 seen some attris being blanked out while attributing on test

[candid narwhal]

@hallow minnow has there been any thought to remove paralyze from certain monsters with this new spell already being a paralyze? being at 60% and getting additional paralyze doesnt seem to be worth the benefit

and if youre not using the spell, you are losing some damage vs current gameplay

[finite ice]

think it should just give for 1 dist it gave 10 dex as eldrin said before 20 = 200dex

[hallow minnow]

Here we go again. I did explain it several times already. No, you won't lose the attribute. Half of dexterity will come from attribute, that you already have (Precise).

[hallow minnow]

It was just an example.

[glad condor]

guys precise will become dex. For now all items have full dxbut on live it will be split into dex from attribute and dex from property

[finite ice]

so if item is not attributed it wont have same dex as with attribute?

[hallow minnow]

No, half of it. If you want the rest, you need to attribute an item.

[glad condor]

@hallow minnow any clue how I can make fair comparison of my old vs new damage?

Cant test properly

[polar sage]

It doesnt make sense albino scale helmet has higher level item then angelic helmet, i understand if u want to give big weight to boss raids but still angelic helmet drops from a much higher tier monster

[glad condor]

if you could share old formula and new formula that would be amazing

[hallow minnow]

New:
min = playerLevel / 5 + (max * 0.20)
max = 20 + (attackSkill ^ 2) / 1600 * attackValue / attackFactor

Old:
min = playerLevel / 5
max = 20 + 0.0071 * (attackSkill^(3/2)) * attackValue / attackFactor ```

[glad condor]

attack value = ammo attack including bow attack so h arrow with annihilator is 42?

[hallow minnow]

Yes, including bow attack.

[glad condor]

and attack factor is stance?

what is full attack factor?

[hallow minnow]

Offensive = 1.0, Balanced = 0.7, Defensive = 0.5

[glad condor]

thx

[glad condor]

@scarlet dust in case you didnt see, you can make some cool graphs to compare?

[hallow minnow]

Ah, that was for melee. For ranged attack it's 1.0/1.20/2.0

[glad condor]

and dexterity adds to it like this:
min damage = min damage + 0.8 * dex
max damage = max damage + 1.2 * dex

[hallow minnow]

Correct.

Of course, at the same end, it's all rounded down.

[glad condor]

@hallow minnow I inserted it to google sheet and it seems what is displayed on test server log is not correct. Old formula is correct but new formula not.

According to the formula you posted:

new damage min = 377.181    new damage max = 639.905```

Server log on test:
```20:03 Distance damage (dexterity: 191): 96->421 (old) => 347-671 (new)```

[hallow minnow]

639x1.05 ~= 671

You see Patrick Legend King (Level 482). He is a master archer.

[glad condor]

oh thats right

in that case old formula is wrongly displayed on test, it doesnt include that extra damage from 2nd promo

added 5% from 2nd promo and still numbers dont add up

392.7124525    660.44025```

promo buff is applied after dex?

iirc you said dex is always static

[polar sage]

.

[glad condor]

Ok so after doing some more calculations im pretty sure that my combined damage got nerfed compared to current formulas.

eq: helmet of torment, boots of torment, umbral armor, angelic legs, annihilator, golden quiver (all full)
master archer, lvl: 482, skill: 122, attack value: 42 (annihilator + h arrow), mlvl 28, dex: 191, old precise bonus: 22

Auto attack:
min damage = 384
max damage = 672
avg damage = 528
SD:
min damage = 1185
max damage = 1550
avg damage = 1367

combined avg damage = 1895.5```

```OLD FORMULA: (lvl 482, skill 144, attack 42)
Auto attack:
min damage = 101
max damage = 562
avg damage = 332
SD:
min damage = 1362
max damage = 1781
avg damage = 1550

combined avg damage = 1903.5```

Im not even counting additional damage loss due to annihilator being nerfed from 100% armor pen to 15 armor pen for auto attacks. I know it increases SD damage but it negligible compared to what i lost on my auto attacks completely ignoring target armor. Is this intended? Are my calculations correct? If so why has archer been nerfed when hes not using the spell? @hallow minnow

[hallow minnow]

After formula changes such differences, whether it is a decrease or increase of damage is expected. I would understand if you would comply about 5-10% damage change, but 0.5%? Up to max about 1.5-2%, if you count armor penetration change? It's within acceptable range. Just walk it off.

[candid narwhal]

I thought the point of these changes was to improve the vocation though?

[hallow minnow]

And now compare damage with the spell.

[glad condor]

Its a teamhunting spell.

[candid narwhal]

that spell might be good in teamhunts, but the ranger will likely lag behind? Unless you toggle it on/off continuously, which is bad.

and if you use it solo, you are getting paralyzed twice if a monster uses it

so youre going at 30% speed

with 60%hp

[glad condor]

IM comparing normal gameplay that I used to have to normal solo gameplay I will be doing on new patch

[tight tulip]

with this speed debuff the new spell is useless

[fresh schooner]

90% of All Paladin have to use mana shield on teamhunt with your teamhuntspell 😐

[timber saffron]

Speed is fine, u can toggle it on/off for free u can just put it on mouse or some easy hotkey

[short nest]

So ? U want paladin to waste less and do more damage than mage with no downside ? 😂

[candid narwhal]

is it too late to just make better ammo more viable, revert previous sd nerfs, and increase base hit %?

or at least get rid of the speed debuff

[candid narwhal]

that sounds horrible

[glad condor]

Eldrin Im also using very good eq for my level. If i use patched boots and angelic helmet instead of torment pieces the damage loss (not counting annihilator nerf) goes above 5%.

[fresh schooner]

No .

[candid narwhal]

is it even more damage single target, and the hp is still being nerfed?

take aoe into account and mage still wipes the floor with every vocation

[short nest]

I think pally do more damage single target now, yea … and correctly if I’m wrong apparently the damage / gold that archer does for single target is way cheaper than mage

Yea, sure, mage can aoe, but that’s the only thing it’s good at, he’s the worst at all the other things

[candid narwhal]

i believe the new ammo was going to be valued at roughly the same price as the explosive eggs, so ammo+sd would be roughly the same value, and the damage would be very similar

and aoe is a very good thing to be good at, especially at higher levels

but again, even if this is the case, paladins will be walking with bricks on their feet

while mages are also the fastest vocation

[short nest]

It’s not similar. I’ll explain to you why: 80-90% of the mage damage will be from sd/spell, while archers damage will come 50-60% or even less from spell ? So it can still do a lot of damage while healing

[short nest]

Fastest but squishier, u want ur vocation to be faster, hit harder and no downside ?

[candid narwhal]

hardly squishier when the rangers hp is decreased to 60% and is a walking slug

[hallow minnow]

Check it again, changed spellpower bonus per dexterity from 0.50 to 0.60.

[candid narwhal]

and i never said anything about being faster than a mage, i just stated fasted than a tortoise

60% debuff with spell and additional para from monsters is aids

[fresh schooner]

Ill agree with downgraded

[glad condor]

!rework shows the same sd damage. I relogged

now works

[jolly scroll]

whats the difference now?

[glad condor]

with 191 dex my sd changed to [1210-1582] from [1185-1550]

Ill recalculate the rest

sd + auto attack
new: 1924
old: 1903.5

[jolly scroll]

but its not with heavy ammo right?

[glad condor]

Im talking strictly about solo hunts, not counting the spell at all. You can check my previous post (data before spellpower from dex was increased to 0.6) @jolly scroll

[sterile sedge]

@hallow minnow could a have a maris feast with dist? ign Kung Apell

[somber crag]

all the items with dex gonna split half into att and property?

[sterile sedge]

21:35 Distance damage (dexterity: 229): 86->1054 (old) => 529-1519 (new)

noice

[glad condor]

yes

[flat mist]

No. New ammo’s conjuration spell will be locked behind holy rose, so less “arrow makers” compared to burst arrows that ANY PREMIUM MAGE can bake. Less offer more search = increase of ammo’s value, even tho it’s the same mana cost.

[somber crag]

It is confirmed?

[glad condor]

yes

[flat mist]

Also, everyone forgets how a mage can 💵💳 their skill progression afk and with barely any waste in beam hunts while doing best exp/h with a knight, while archers demand time and effort to increase distance

[ripe mural]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-ah-shit-cj-gta-gta-san-andreas-gif-13933485

[primal dew]

Nice high rate server feedback, try again.

[somber crag]

so e.g webcrawler boots +15 dex its gonna be 7.5 dex att and 7.5 dex propt?
why are they full in test server then so confusing tbh...

[glad condor]

for convinience, idk if it will be split in half or some items will be 2/3 + 1/3

[hallow minnow]

15 = 7+8

[short nest]

It’s not the same …. U are comparing something that do 400 damage with something that do 800 damage lol

It’s waaaay more damage / mana(or gold)

[torpid prism]

eldrin, dont u think the paladins and knights must be with a aurea like mage does when cast the spell like utamo vita?

[tawny quiver]

visual clue would be good yeah

[short nest]

👍🏻 we need something so other players can see if they have their skills activated specially for pvp situations

[torpid prism]

mages get more focus when using utamo, pallys and knight when cast the spell and get more vulnerable and could be more visible it also

[hallow minnow]

Condition shaders have to be reworked first, it is not important now.

Okay, test server can't be open forever. Do you have any important feedback to share? I assume that the changes do satisfy you, unless I forgot to change something.

[glad condor]

I feel like the archer spell is overtuned in terms of damage. Would you consider lowering the damage significantly in order to remove movement speed penalty?

Got that hinch that it will be heavily abused. Health penalty doesnt matter after certain level and now that we are uncapped there might be some scenarios when overleveled paladins completely anihilate content that is slightly under their level

[somber crag]

a white one 🙂

[somber crag]

Yes I rather have less damage with normal speed

[flat mist]

I didn’t know you can’t trade MC for cash in classic servers, sorry boss

[torpid prism]

Maybe consider a small cooldown to remove the spell if paladins cast? 5-10 seconds

[flat mist]

One is single, another AoE boss

[short nest]

Mages usually can’t hit 3+ monsters consistently in a decent hunt for their level without big risk of death, unless they have a blocker

[hallow minnow]

Alternatively: same damage, no speed penalty, high mana cost, chance to break after you get 10+ hits when spell is active.

[chrome wigeon]

@hallow minnow is there any place we can see what changed since yesterday?

[primal dew]

Thing is that you can’t balance a game against p2w these players are paying to progress faster, it is what it is.

[glad condor]

breaking after taking damage is interesting

[flat mist]

Issue is: archer and knight don’t have a p2w way to progress their skills faster, while both mages have.

Not taking into account skill boost abuse too

[torpid prism]

if u remove the speed penalty and ppl doenst know the pally cast it, for hunt its might be good but for pvp a paladin can just cast it put follow atk and its brake.

[short nest]

Seems op for pvp tho? U get hit 10 times and u get ur health back

[torpid prism]

speed penalty is perfect

[hallow minnow]

Then redbox back and make your enemy waste that 1k mana used to cast the spell.

[torpid prism]

then u use 1 mana potion and baked ur mana is back

in 10 hit and 10 second u do the same

the mana cost wont make it a problem

[lilac mortar]

for pvp still gona be BREAk, but for hunt, if gona low the sd damage (without spell) it wil be suck

[short nest]

On the other hand mage can’t hunt using 4 gold / turn doing decent exp like archer can do

Each class is unique and that’s fine

[lilac mortar]

that spell is good now, low peed high damage (on pvp ) ok, hunt ok // normal speed in PVP is strong

keep like is now

[torpid prism]

i agree... if u guys just work on a shaders for those spells gonna be perfect

[short nest]

Yes I agree, I would like to reinforce that the “aura” for pvp is really important

[tawny quiver]

im low level neutral but it looks good as of now. maybe lowerish dmg and other ammo works too? idk

[flat mist]

Although it doesn’t have any correlation with the p2w topic, please, do teach me those hunts where I spent only hunting arrows doing decent exp, really need them.

[half oriole]

High level archers hit absurd amounts with ammunition right now, dunno if devs saw this. It will be like 800+ hits every turn, not sure if this was the goal, even with the movement and hp reduced.

[torpid prism]

@hallow minnow

[jolly scroll]

just keep it how it is pls dont complicate anything any more 😐

[torpid prism]

pallys wont be abble to cast anima amplio if the spell is active also

😉

[sterile sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-fire-house-burning-okay-gif-5263684

[crisp quail]

[glad condor]

orsha skills

thats why game is not balanced around hrates 147 skills with meal 👍

[opaque iris]

Is that 1500+ with an arrow?

[sterile sedge]

SD: [1261-1649] to [1627-2128] 21:35 Distance damage (dexterity: 229): 86->1054 (old) => 529-1519 (new)

yes

[opaque iris]

[timber saffron]

This, getting the guy with best set ingame and best skills to show dmg is not realistic

[woeful echo]

why does the item have 2 lvl requirementes? can i use it if i'm lvl 130?

[haughty wigeon]

ye u can see how u are getting 14 of the 25 dexterity on your current lvl

[woeful echo]

oh ok, but what about the lvl requirementes?

[short nest]

No level requirement, it’s item level which means u can only use its full power (in this case 25 dex) at level 280. But u can use the item with any attribute before that.

[inland trail]

changes did not take into account PVP, medivia doesn't care about it even though its their biggest revenue

[jolly scroll]

will quivers and pouches have new property?

[floral nest]

yeah they will give dex

[jolly scroll]

@hallow minnow what prices will be for piercing and heavy ammo? and will we have opportunity to conjure these ammo for example except bursts?

[fluid apex]

the spell to create heavy ammo is already on test server, its holy rose faction spell

[flat mist]

Probably more expensive than s-explosive runes, since its locked behind HR

[fluid apex]

@hallow minnow will we have a bar on the skills tab, for how much dex we have equipped?

[candid narwhal]

so theyll be more expensive than small runes since rangers regen mana slower?

[flat mist]

Not only that, but HOly Rose is needed to bake them. And most archers will rune for themselves.

[willow shard]

@hallow minnow how do you just ignore this? Best feedback ur ever gonna get. Idk why I'm wasting time in here tbh, ur listening to all the wrong ppl. Also idk how you seem to have pursuaded Archers that the spell is a good idea. Gl with the game

[short nest]

Hmmm idk about that … if u use mama potions u make a bp of small explosive for around 100k, u will make one for Palladin for the same price (while also leveling up magic level)
Maybe a lil bit more expensive, but not by a lot

[timber saffron]

I would still like to see conjure piercing arrow spell. This new heavy ammunition is expensive and I won't use it always. Seeing as piercing now debuffs armor we should be able to make use of this. Please reconsider and add this spell for us! I am sure everyone here agrees with me.

[rough venture]

the new formula for hit chance is on?

[gentle hawk]

this. people will fluid them and the gained mglvl is much more valuable now, so slower mana reg is no concern

[glad condor]

One note about the spell that i dont have a solution for. Its gonna be for sure abused in solo hunting by overleveled characters hunting lower lvl spawns.

I would not like the whole archer vocation to suffer nerfs just because this spell exists.

[fresh schooner]

100% agree.

[glad condor]

1. introduce another type of ammo between heavy and piercing 45,47 attack (or use power ammo for that purpose) that ammo will be buyable at npc as well as conjurable and only usable with new spell.
2. Remove the speed penalty from spell
3. Remove heavy ammo spell
4. Add heavy ammo as loot to some monsters (the only way to obtain it)
5. Allow exchanging heavy arrows to heavy bolts and other way around

This will at least lower the abuse on highest lvls while still being able to dish out the insane damage when needed.
Its not perfect i know but honestly this is really hard problem to solve.

[willow shard]

A problem that should never be created in the first place. To hell with this spell 🫡

[glad condor]

After playing test server extensively for the past weekend I must agree. Id probably just like to see a slight buff to archer solo damage and removal of the spell

[quartz badge]

I haven't been the most vocal person in here but I've been trying to follow the discussion. But one question remains with me, how did we end up here? Paladins wanted a small buff to make us level with the other vocations which turned out to be a full remake of the vocation.

Couple of months ago devs wanted archers to act as secondary-blockers, now we are gonna be glasscanon-shooters instead?

I just think the whole thing with the spell and heavy ammo is overdoing it and have a huge risk of backfiring.

Most of us archers (I would think) are very content with not being the best at anything really. We are supposed to be a hybrid, like pretty good at everything.

[glad condor]

Remeber that they are also removing level cap with nearest update so all the item changes and introduction of dexterity and other item attributes is needed for that.
Archers on highest lvls were kind of lacking compared to others so small changes were needed (revert sd nerf, more hitchance, conjurable piercing ammo)

[fresh schooner]

The spell Buffs the highend pala in solo style more as in teamhunt for sure.

[jolly scroll]

1. 100% confirmation
2. only in team hunts while shared exp. without shared or while attacking players should be still penalty
   3, 4, 5 - NO, why? if it will be obtainable only from monsters then it will be not usable like power bolts now. reason: there will be very low amount of that just same situation

[willow shard]

As I see it now, without keeping the spell in mind, Eldrin has successfully transferred Archers rune damage to redbox damage, which is considered "free" damage in comparison to rune damage. Now since SD damage has once again been nerfed by a hefty amount this means that it's counterintuitive to use them at all. I don't know about you guys but I'm looking at opportunities to hunt with hmm's on a level 400 and it just feels like a kick in the balls 😄

What I'm saying is that either the rune nerfs needs reverting and/or the SD rune needs to be scrapped for the Archer, with the implementation of a more affordable physical single target rune made for Archers only. I suggest this to "keep Archer damage down". Now the cost of SD runes is not an issue for the Orsha 3x servers that you have created but it is an issue on 1x lootrate, the damage Archers deal with them are just not enough for them to be justified using.

[timber saffron]

Sd value is totally shit without spell and I feel forced to hmm hunt without it

Gfb would be my way to go but I lost like 150 damage on that

[timber saffron]

Still a big thing to me

Affordable piercing ammu

From like 5 gp bolt to like 8 maybe

Preferably conjureable

[jolly scroll]

The same feelings here. at around 370-400 finally i saw some enough dmg to start using SD while solo hunt to be somehow effective. The numbers which we can see in server log on test server based on target without any armor/phys resists. This dmg isnt that very nice like on dummy target while attacking ashlords or something like this.

These changes smels like buff for hmms and nerf for sd (again). While archer will not get annihilator then its sad cause dmg isnt so nice and when i have to hit 950~ as 400 archer with SD then its really sad and just generating even more waste then before...

lets start hunting with hmms with 1,3kk/h again ❤️

[glad condor]

Where do you even hunt with hmms at 1.3kk/h?

[jolly scroll]

gfbs arent so fine as archer cause u dont using your potential from weapon and skills which u train tons of hours. its not good solution from my perspective. I didnt waste 20kk for full xbow to shot gfbs almost without using xbow during hunt like this 😐

[fresh schooner]

Another idea @hallow minnow
Make a "poll" about the New spell??

[jolly scroll]

red wyverns for example

[hallow minnow]

Since the spell is intended for teamhunting and speed reduction actually makes it annoying when teamhunting, and it's only purpose is to prevent solo hunting with spell, the spell will have chance to break after getting hit multiple times. It still counters solo hunting but makes teamhunting more enjoyable. Of course speed reduction will be removed.

[glad condor]

Polls are terrible to use when balancing

[glad condor]

Does the timer reset after not being hit for x seconds?

[willow shard]

Technically you should generate the same waste with SDs before the update as you will after the update, assuming that the increase in average redbox damage justifies the loss in SD damage. What I'm saying is that it will FEEL even worse to use those SDs on an Archer when you can go with hmm's or ice hmms and profit. I don't even wanna talk about exp/h. Also Archers won't be allowed to use SDs in i most teamhunting scenarios because it's just money in the water.

[jolly scroll]

why u complicate hunting even more with this damn... whats the problem to implement some conditions like speed penalty while attacking players or no shared exp? its very easy and no complications during any hunt and everything would be clear for all.

best solution would be remove this spell and heavy ammo and just provide new ammo and keep rune dmg like it was before fomrula change and make skills matter more.

i wont waste time any more here but from day to day looks like all going worse and worse GL.

[glad condor]

@hallow minnow what about mana cost then?

[timber saffron]

That is a really bad trade off it's even more abuseable without speed nerf. Don't change this

[timber saffron]

That only influences us low-rate again

[hallow minnow]

Will be high enough.

[hallow minnow]

You don't know how the spell works as it's not implemented and you are making assumptions.

[hallow minnow]

Elaborate how it's more abusable.

[glad condor]

Is health reduction still needed in that case? Maybe you could be very strict with breaking the spell when getting hit but remove health penalty as well.

[timber saffron]

Cause speed reduction is what makes solo hunting less viable at increased risk of death

[hallow minnow]

Like allow max 2 hits per 30 seconds?

[timber saffron]

Now that's alot better option then limiting it to teamhunt only

[haughty wigeon]

how is it gonna make teamhunting more enjoyable if im gonna have to spend 96k mana before every teamhunt just to make the new ammo thats useless outside of teamhunts. Might as well remove the spell in that case because then i would rather just keep off tanking stuff in teamhunts than being a single target glass canon

[hallow minnow]

It's not intended to be used solo hunting.

[glad condor]

Something like that

[timber saffron]

That's why if u remove speed boost it will be used more

In solo hunts

[glad condor]

It will break the spell when u get hit

[timber saffron]

Hit with what, every mob has ranged atks

[hallow minnow]

Then it will be more strict, and if it's abusable then some monsters may attack more often with ranged attacks, keeping the same DPS.

[hallow minnow]

Any damage that is not field damage.

[subtle meteor]

Alphabeasts will be abused

[timber saffron]

fak no

[haughty wigeon]

every mob got like a lot of ranged aoe dmg that u will get hit by every now and then even in teamhunts oh well

[regal field]

That includes DoT damage from burning etc?

[glad condor]

Not really worth using this ammo on alphabeasts as you will break the spawn either way and hunting arrows will yield more profit

[hallow minnow]

There will have to be some kind of damage threshold.

[regal field]

Fair

[timber saffron]

No mana cost then

If it get removed every 2 seconds

[deep peak]

no exhaust too

[cold willow]

Easy fix is to remove a % of their berserk damage and convert into a stone.

@eldrin.medivia You are once again completely not realizing the damage you are dealing to pvp with your rpg ideas. If they have no speed nerf they can zoom diagonally 900 mph just auto atking for massive damage to mages.

Why not give them a holy sd rune that only their voc can use and adjust the price properly?

[haughty wigeon]

Knights are getting insanely buffed and all we are getting is a trash spell? Oh well back to being the worst voc again I guess since knights almost got buffed back to how they were on first day on test server.

[glad condor]

Read the whole thread

[timber saffron]

This feels like we got

Absolutely nothing once again

[cold willow]

I honestly can’t because of how much trolling/idiotic comments were made. Are you referring to it needing shared?

[willow shard]

This would in fact allow Archers to team hunts, because we would generate profits although lowered exp/h. Also it would help us sustain solo hunts because with current rune damage Archers are the biggest waste class for high lvl content in solos.

[timber saffron]

Very disappointed we tested this for a while and now one early morning there's a whole new idea?

Keep spell as it is but maybe adjust dmg a bit if anything if that's the issue

[young mesa]

@hallow minnow please put new heave ammo in shop, it will be annoying to make it yourself, and people won't sell it that much when it is gated behind holy rose

[timber saffron]

No

[short nest]

If you do that, the spell will probably be really busted on pvp

[glad condor]

You can break the spell by attacking ranger and it has high mana cost but honestly I would even not allow attacking players with these arrows on top of that to keep PvP in tact

[hallow minnow]

But first, let's see how the other solution works like. I did remove speed penalty, offensive effects of spell is working only in party with shared experience enabled and heavy ammo will only deal full damage to monsters. Since knights also received some solo hunting buff, I also decided to increase spellpower bonus from dexterity from 0.60 to 0.75.

[glad condor]

So if it only works in party then no need to break the spell on taking damage right?

[hallow minnow]

Yes, no breaking when getting hit and still no mana cost.

[short nest]

It’s Worth the test i guess

[red citrus]

Same question im asking myself, not only about paladins but also about eks
At this point i'd rather have none update instead of this one, not properly tested and rushed just for sake of changing vocations on demand of bored players

[glad condor]

@hallow minnow Just to be clear since its shared experience spell only now, the penalties introduced to make it almost unusable in solo hunting (hp reduction, speed reduction) got removed right?

[haughty wigeon]

only speed reduction learn to read

[hallow minnow]

Health reduction is planned to stay, just speed reduction removed. Increased rune damage will stay in PvP.

[chrome hare]

What about getting paralyzed for 2 seconds without being able to remove it if you take dmg? if you play good and avoid dmg u have no speed penalty but it would't be viable for stronger monsters that deals dmg on range and would also kinda fix the pvp issue of being super speedy and bombarding mages with hard hits

[candid narwhal]

Not having tested yet, I personally think the new changes sound better than what I was testing over the weekend

How long will the test server be up?

Or is it already down?

[jolly scroll]

@hallow minnow whats happen with !rework tp?

[fluid apex]

if its locked behind shared exp and heavy ammo can only deal full dmg to monsters, remove the health debuff, so archers can help the party off tanking, and not beeing a mage with utamo all time without mana regen attributes.

[carmine comet]

How do you see knights insanely buffed?

[candid narwhal]

Can we also discuss ammo being added to npcs? Even if it's slightly more expensive than the mana cost, I don't believe we should strictly be reliant on ranger makers to use ammo @hallow minnow

[hallow minnow]

Added to Aremis for 55 gold per arrow/bolt.

[candid narwhal]

Ok that seems significantly higher than small explosive runes, but at least it's in npc

So it's a good start

[hallow minnow]

On second thought, it's a bit too high price. I reduced it to 50gp and Ebarin will also sell small explosive runes for the same price, it's the same thing after all, but for mages.

[molten shore]

OMG Eldrin i love u

[elder locust]

So our sds are nerfed in solo hunt, and we get buff in teamhunt???

[regal field]

Think with the spellpower change on dex its much less of a nerf than it was before

[fluid apex]

ive been experiencing a lot of miss hit today, isnt a 4% hit chance weapon to be 99% hit chance? (since hit chance was raised from 90% to 95%)

[old ice]

You also have to remove the hp reduction on this spell, let be honest here the Archer will have to use mana shield in almost all hunts and if you compere us with mages you forgot that they have the mana shield protection bonus from their ml and itens, but archer dont have this…. So we will take way more damage and use much more MF, making the coost of hunts to expansive 😪😪 if the spell will work only in party with shared xp i dont see the reason why you are keeping the hp reduction.

[haughty wigeon]

spell stay active after party gets disbanded without dmg buffs but with still reduced hp @hallow minnow and cant turn it off since we arent in a party

[gentle hawk]

if hp stays full, archers can tank in parties with spell active and insane sd dmg, yet again being the better knights, thats why hp reduction has to stay

[tight tulip]

for sure

[old ice]

Dont see the reason to keep using Mf every turn

Mage has 50% reduction in mana shield

[gentle hawk]

im sure players with more than 2 brain cells will find a way to take advantage of 30% extra dmg in party

[old ice]

We will take twice the damage

Simple add 50% mana shield protection when you casy the spell and its fine

[hallow minnow]

Check now.

[haughty wigeon]

well i did relog to remove it

[hallow minnow]

I did check it and now it works properly.

[old ice]

The cost of a archer on team hunt will be at lest 30% + that mages because we will have to use twice more MF that mage..

[glad condor]

How is that different from eks spell making them insanely good at damage dealing? Except for range which can be worked around. All the issues related to the spell being broken in solo hunting have been resolved by making it party only. Not sure why there is still a need for heath penalty.

[regal field]

You do realize that doing way more damage cuts the supplies for other people?

[half oriole]

Think u guys lost ur mind. Ek has damage taken penalty, u can just run away. Also its 14% dmg buff?

[hallow minnow]

Please give me examples of creatures that randomly hit shooters without any indicator, that may one shot you, so you are required to have manashield active while hunting it. Have in mind that creatures' attacks can be changed to shift the damage from random instant spell to indicated spell, that you need to avoid.

[half oriole]

because there is a party without EK? hello

[glad condor]

?

[old ice]

Ritualist

So you will change all atks from HL mobs? @hallow minnow

[hallow minnow]

If necessary. Which attacks of ritualist you have exactly in mind, that you can't avoid with a skilled knight, who keeps the ritualist away from the party and sometimes cast Taunt spell?

The chasing attack is avoidable, so is reflect mechanic. Waves/beams are avoidable too.

[old ice]

All hunt the knight problable will make a mistake, i dont remember one hutn that the mobs dont give at lest one hit on the shooters

[molten shore]

he just want to solo kill Ritualist abusing of the spell...

[hallow minnow]

And mistakes cost. That's how the game works.

[old ice]

Ok so mana shield will need to hunt

[hallow minnow]

So in span of 2 hours, someone makes a mistake and you get hit once. Doesn't seem to increase cost of hunting by that much.

[glad condor]

Mages hunt with mana shield even on lvl 600. Corruptors, seals, succubus, and many more I cant remeber

[gentle hawk]

cant follow u there, knight spell makes u squishy as hell, u cant properly block with it compared to spell inactive. meanwhile rangers would remain good tank with massively buffed sd dmg, making them even better blockers than rn. health reduction has to stay

[old ice]

You will problaby have to fix this in 2 moths

[glad condor]

How are they blocking better with more sd damage? If ek cant block properly with spell active and 25% damage taken increase then archer cant tank properly having 60% of ek hp and 0 def weapon.

[hallow minnow]

I am not saying I won't, if it's necessary.

[gentle hawk]

i think we missunderstood each other. my point is if there were no hp reduction and rangers had 100% hp on spell, then they could just tank while dmg is improved, making them even higher dps tanks with no drawback. i thought u were suggesting to remove hp reduction

[primal dew]

If there’s no speed debuff i don’t see any risk for rangers.. speed was the main thing vs bosses mechanics, and now it is fixed

[buoyant mesa]

No, we don't. No mana shield on corruptors, succubus, flamebringer and incidamus from level 500. 2700 HP. You're telling me archers will be in trouble with 10% HP more? That's laughable.

HP and speed penalty has to be there to even start talking about balance. You're blasting 3k-4k combos per turn. The hell are we talking about here?

[glad condor]

@hallow minnow maybe I lost it somewhere but what is the reason for hp reduction? And I dont mean damage has to come at a cost but actual problem that is being solved by reducing hp?

[primal dew]

I play without mana shield as a mage on most of respawns I just rely on my EK and try to position in a way I can have enough time to react with energy ring

[glad condor]

Can you stop making false statements based on orsha rates characters with 147 skills?

[buoyant mesa]

Literally zero false statements here. I was there with you on lvl 90 ranger during first test server. Dodging corruptors at level 90! With 800 HP and speed reduction

[glad condor]

I am suggesting that. Archer has around 60% of eks hp with all vitality etc. it cant tank as good as ek. At least not the content that is for their level. Sure there might be a case when for duo single target hunting archer will be more desirable but there’s nothing wrong with it.

[half oriole]

top damage tank, i dont see anything wrong here

[hallow minnow]

So they can't offtank with lots of damage. If they want to tank/offtank, they have to return to their old damage.

[glad condor]

What’s the issue with that?

I mean it adds depth to gameplay so maybe its not totally terrible 🤔

Skilled player will still be able to do most of the stuff as long as the spell stays low mana and low cd

[half oriole]

Really they will? So why are u proposing it? Just do it.

[glad condor]

Im not fixed on anything. Realized it might not be that bad so I can change my mind

[elder locust]

So tldr for vocation fixes is sorc/druid stays the same. Ek uber buff, rp mid nerf in solo, buff in th????

Solo rp will have even less exp/hr now?

[glad condor]

If you have low skills or you are under geared you will be nerfed solo. But in general solo hunting should remain relatively the same if you are sd hunting. For aoe hunting you are getting nerfed and for single target with hmm you are getting buffed

[elder locust]

So offline training when

[ripe mural]

What ppl seems to forget is that rangers can train both distance fighting and magic level while mages got only one skill they can use to boost their dmg

[elder locust]

How much mlvl boost dmg for archer? 6 dmg on sds per mlvl?

[hollow goblet]

Sorc/Druid lose dmg if not high mlvl

[elder locust]

So does rp if not high skill, on ts 120 dist vs 132 dist was difference on average 80 dmg

[gentle hawk]

can you elaborate on the super buffs for eks?

[finite ice]

Will dummies gonna be buffed or eternal spears nerfed? After new paladin buff?

[ripe mural]

80/12 = 6,67

[haughty wigeon]

idk feels like new spell is gonna be good when farming sheol seals and stuff like chaos hydra most respawns break when team hunting on high lvls and we are pretty much forced to hunt with a knight or druid to even be able to use the spell when teamhunting, but sure its gonna be good on bosses and monsters with insane amount of hp

[timber saffron]

17 max dmg

How has noone mentioned aswell that our healing is nerfed too

or maybe its squish but my vita is like 4-500 less

[haughty wigeon]

just walk it off

[elder locust]

Your spellpower is lowet hence healing too, need 2 uhs to full hp now xD

[sterile sedge]

So basicly low rate problems

[west fable]

i think the default damage its pretty decent now without spell, this new spell should only let the player use the heavy arrow and not increases the spellpower, on team hunt this is insanely op, i feel like in most of hl hunts will be better having only paladins as shooters instead of mages the way it is now

[fluid apex]

we'll need faster spawns too

[west fable]

yes, we need faster spawns too asap, with new changes any team lvl 500+ will be able to break all the games spawns for alot of time, make spawns fasterr, even for solo hunting !!

[timber saffron]

give conjure piercing arrow spell so i can increase my DPS by 20 when solo hunting, 20 dmg buff is the solo dmg buff we need to save this vocation, 12gp on npc is too high im broke, ranger its hard to make money

[haughty wigeon]

why is albino scale mail so highlvl btw? it drops from a really easy low lvl monsters sure its a 1x spawn and might take a while to loot but it rly dont deserve to be as good as it is lol should be between demon armor and spider chain mail if anything

[glad condor]

Allowing rangers to conjure piercing arrows (now that small explosions are in shop) seems like a no brainer and should definitely be added

[timber saffron]

/\ this. i dont teamhunt cause noone wants rangers still, so i need something to spend my mana on that benefits me solo

give me one valid arguement why this spell is not getting added

[vital prairie]

because u are crying about that for a whole week

Thats a solid argument for not puting into game

[bronze kindle]

Its a no brainer make an spell like this for pt because literally everybody who plays as archer is because can solo hunt, people where stupid crying for more speed. PLEASE THE ORIGINAL SPELL WAS PERFECT

Lose speed for more dmg is nothing for a spell that is for high lvl where we have lots of speed

people were crying when actually all the buffs are good now we will have a useless spell

[wheat oracle]

Please @hallow minnow make Shadowfall Crossbow at leat +1 atk them Sacred Arbalest, just the way this one doesn't have any difference between the two weapons and since the sacred one by holy dmg is much more useful. Please

[bronze kindle]

srly @hallow minnow all first changes for archer were super high quality of life and good, the spell itself didnt need any change the only thing that still is a hastle and would need an change on archer is missing arrow shots on rat even if you have 130 of distance/dex. I'm begging to you ignore the stupid cry for more speed because on long term that is something we gain with more lvl and is natural to have as an debuf on the class for more high damage

makes no sense for archer have an spell for only party hunt when the whole class concept is being able to hunt by himself

[glad condor]

Why though? You wanna boost your solo hunting damage?

[bronze kindle]

why care about speed loss ?

srly

what speed changes ?

[glad condor]

So remove the spell and buff ranger a bit more.

[bronze kindle]

the first changes were good even the nerf on damage after people were crying for wrong reasons when we still will be missing arrow shots with 130+ dex

[glad condor]

This is niche occasional spell now not intended for solo hunting

I agree not having 100% hitchance is cringe

[bronze kindle]

ok then make we stop missing shots with high dex so we can actually do damage when solo hunting

because is stupid to be traning if no matter what I'll miss shot on low lvl monsters

[glad condor]

You can have up to 99% hitchance which is a buff from 95% currently on live servers

Should be just capped at 100% though I agree

[bronze kindle]

and I'm saying this because I saw an archer lvl 300+ with distance 140+ missing 2 arrow shots on rat

in sequence

[glad condor]

Ok

[bronze kindle]

if want to let the class be hunting by itself like always was done: yes

tbh making the spell for party also makes only archer turn into a mage with high life

again another reason to: or let the spell be like original or just remove and buff base damage

[glad condor]

No bro you lose hp

[bronze kindle]

yes but my ranger lvl 180 with the spell

has the same life

as my friend ms lvl 300

and does the same dmg on SD

[glad condor]

Doubt

[bronze kindle]

then test it

its simple

[hollow goblet]

Seems balanced when patch?

[bronze kindle]

the spell only makes archer be an buffed mage on pt

[brittle cairn]

nana, have you pvped? you know there is pvp in this game also? you only view this from your own view, but its typical archer mentality "me, me me buhuhuhu"

[bronze kindle]

bro this is the archer thread to talk about archer changes

whole game changes we talk on the whole game changes

we are talking about an spell that affects archer

and how the class will be affected

and making comparisons

[brittle cairn]

i fell for the trap, talking to a retard. you change the whole game if an archer has the same speed but damages increasingly more. so we should fix your problems, and then fix the whole game after we fixed your problem that caused the big problem?

jesus christ

[glad condor]

Consider reading the thread. Eldrin already said the spell will not work in PvP

[bronze kindle]

:)

seems like the retard is the one who missed the point of the talk

[flat mist]

Well, we just lost our chance to improve "high risk - high reward" gameplay style. If spell really's going to be locked under party + ammunition is purchasable in NPC, please, change where its obtainable from Holy Rose reward to Eye of the Flame, so we can enjoy party hunting since lvl 8, not after 150+

Also, good afternoon @hallow minnow

[bronze kindle]

this is an good sugestion tbh

makes much more sense

[elder locust]

So do i understand right ? Paladins getting a solo hunt nerf ? Even tho it was the only think the vocation was made, and had alot problems with it ? Why does paladins get now solo nerfs, while they already do less xp or profit per h as other vocations ?

[timber saffron]

yea sad we will remaind boring as fuck solo

no chance to do something good

[flat mist]

You gotta go back to demorcs and I to Corrupted Spiders

[timber saffron]

yes with 150 less dmg on my gfb, gonna be amazing. but hey i can ice hmm manticores pretty damn good now

[flat mist]

I forgot about the nerf into spellpower

[timber saffron]

dont forget nerf in healing aswell

[hallow minnow]

I left it there to have a room for possible weapon upgrade in the future.

[timber saffron]

just bring back spell to old state and reduce dmg if thats the problem

give us a CHANCE for some high risk higher reward, that is not as strong as last tested

[finite ice]

What if spell is available for everyone but party shared removes speed debuf?

[timber saffron]

that would be perfect already

handicap the solo hunts which is exactly what u want, for all ic are u make the speed reduction even bigger, and remove it in teamhunts so its most efficiently there

and we get what we want and u get what u intend with teamhunt "buff"

[floral nest]

its not a handicap if you can safely tank or outrun the mobs you are soloing with the spell active its just a huge DPS increase

[timber saffron]

its not safe thats the point and with proper reduction in speed it wont work on most mobs

but very situational on like running idc manticores on lvl 400 we'll get something out of it

[flat mist]

We still can get comboed boss That spell would turn shield + hunting spear hunts more enjoyable, since we could finally use our shielding skills for something

[floral nest]

yeah i agree with you im only taking about if you hunt mobs you are 100% safe from to die

[faint dagger]

It is realistic yes, since he can do it, other players will be able in matter of time 🙂

[elder locust]

We paladins only asked for a little buff for solo hunting, since thats what the vocation was made for. And now we receive some shit wich nobody cares about AND our solo hunts get even nerfed ?? Btw guys what happend to the black widows ? Why is their poison so strong? 300dmg per second ?

[narrow void]

I understand the whole point of the spell was to bring archers back to team hunt, even if we don't ask for the spell tho

For me who plays on a high rate server ofc I liked the changes, hitting 1k+ on SD is awesome BUT I'm not a mage so it seems really unbalanced (My UH was healing 2.5k lol).

Now that you removed the spell for solo hunt my concern is what will be the changes for solo players, only DEX? I mean, servers are empty AF, I have less free time to play Medivia, my friends already stoped playing... I won't waste my time looking for team just to use a spell.

Archers should be good doing things on their own. Higher-risk play, high-risk reward.

[polar sage]

U will be good doing things solo, only thing is u gonna become even a bigger sd simulator, cuz explos and gfbs gets nerfed

Which is crappy if u are playing low rate

[timber saffron]

i wonder what eldrin thinks a 460 RP sds to pg?

[polar sage]

Idk about low rate, but in high rate we sd rats to max exp/h

[timber saffron]

bout time i buy transfer scroll then

[polar sage]

Come to the dark side

[narrow void]

https://tenor.com/view/rambo-first-blood-machine-gun-shooter-rampage-gif-21761600

[fresh schooner]

Solo? Good question on normal lootrate 😄

[jolly scroll]

time to add holy sd for paladins 😄

[deep peak]

holy SDs + holy mas for RPs and ice wave for wiggy

[gentle hawk]

there are no big changes for solo because there are none needed, rangers are incredibly good solo as they are. the whole point of changes was to buff what was weak -teamhunt- not to buff what was already good lol

[gray egret]

will golden quiver give dexterity?

[willow shard]

The only problem (except that explo hunting sucks) for Archers in solos is economy. They're obviously very good for hmm hunting and will be even more so after this update it seems like. It sure looks like GFB hunting is dead after update and SDing is way too expensive. If we're all worried about Archers having too high damage in solos a "holy SD" or whatever, paladin specific rune is not a bad option. With such a rune we could be more attractive in teamhunts aswell, at least in teams that doesn't solely care about exp/h but also return. If we had a cheaper way to deal physical damage (or similar) with runes I would have no issues with SDs being disabled for Archers.

[timber saffron]

we still need an active attack spell but eldrin didnt think details aboout that yet

[somber crag]

sounds very good

[timber saffron]

cause we spend no mana on hunts

[willow shard]

I don't want this game to become a game where you no longer use runes but instead only drink manas and spam spells. If we're mlvl horny we drink manas and make bursts, until further notice.

[haughty wigeon]

gonna make arrows for new spell after this if anything, never gonna make another burst again after this update

[hallow minnow]

Distance damage:

max = 20 + (attackSkill ^ 2) / 1600 * attackValue / attackFactor
min = playerLevel / 5 + (max * 0.20)
```Spellpower:

magLevelMult = 1.8 (2.2 with spell)
base = (level * 1.30) + (magLevel^(7/5) * magLevelMult)
bonus = dexterity * 0.75```

Attack factors:```
offensive = 1.0
balanced = 1.2
defensive = 2.0

Hit chance:```cpp
1sqm: chance = 40 + 0.33 * skill
2sqm: chance = 50 + 0.44 * skill
3sqm: chance = 50 + 0.55 * skill
4sqm: chance = 40 + 0.66 * skill
5sqm: chance = 40 + 0.66 * skill
6sqm: chance = 40 + 0.55 * skill
7sqm: chance = 35 + 0.44 * skill

then lowered to max 95% (based on ammo hit chance)
hit chance from weapon added

[somber crag]

@hallow minnow what you think about this?

[hallow minnow]

Speed debuff is already removed and it is not currently planned to enable this spell outside party with shared experience active.

[timber saffron]

add spell to solo hunts and increase speed debuff to 50%

[somber crag]

what about not missing bolts on rats anymore?

[timber saffron]

add piercing bolts eldrinnnnnnnn

[ebon prairie]

Every time something doesn't go well, all I have to do is go to this discord on this channel and immediately the day gets better when I see that every paladin would like to beat more than a mage xDD crying palladins made day for everyplayer, go go palladin with ue and waves + sd more than MS, ofc palladin is so WEAK

[flat mist]

So, please, change where its obtainable from Holy Rose reward to Eye of the Flame, so we can enjoy party hunting since lvl 8, not after 150+

[tawny quiver]

all solo players going

[fiery pecan]

so change druids purification too

[flat mist]

purification can be used outside TH/party share

[fiery pecan]

with 20% less efective

[tawny quiver]

making the spell gate-locked behing a party.... seems......... going against the majority of the player base.

on a party? remove speed debuff
without? keep speed debuff, maybe lower the dmg a bit

[somber crag]

I srly dont see any good change so far on archers

[fiery pecan]

but if u can use it alone you will break the game, cause you will do more dmg then a mage and you have more hp / itens with more def

[lilac mortar]

same hp

[tawny quiver]

same because 40% hp nerf while spell is ON. if solo, keep the movespeed debuff too.

maybe lower the ammo damage a bit and call it a day

[lilac mortar]

perfect

or at least u can do it solo but with 20% damage not 40%

[fiery pecan]

its not the same, my friend rp 320 have 2k hp with new spell on, my 300 ms friend have 1700 hp.......

[tawny quiver]

and your ms friend can mas vis for 3k dmg
while no RP will ever do that

keep in mind that idea is for RP solo dmg, MS area dmg

[somber crag]

the UE should be behind exp share too xd

[tawny quiver]

xDD

[somber crag]

see what mages gonna say about that

[tawny quiver]

so, if a low-level neutral opinion matters:
try to make it so that the spell isnt gate-keeped behing a party.
make it being without a party just apply more penalties (like, keep the speed debuff and maybe make it like 50%)

[flat mist]

There isnt a problem in adding a party locked spell to archer, since we received a huge buff in our average damage through arrows + dexterity is adding a lot of rune damage (almost equal to live server).

Main issue is a team hunt only spell as a reward from Holy Rose and not a simple/more accessible quest, like Eye of Flame. Archers team hunt will suck until you do HR to get spell, this is a huuuuge meme.

[raw copper]

this all started with paladins asking to be desirable for teamhunting, didnt it?

[finite ice]

asking for better teamhunting and we end up with spell locked 😄 in party shared

[raw copper]

well druids are pretty much useless until they do holy rose, same for a knight without inatio.. just sorcs dont feel forced to do the questline after update

[jolly scroll]

@hallow minnow when we can expect fix with spawns? i mean this dynamic-rate cause after all of these changes with spellpower formula for all vocations it looks like starting to be a priority problem of gameplay which is already anyway

[flat mist]

But archers already get Camouflage as a reward. Moreover, early level druids have a lot of cheap healing to counter UH's usage while team hunting.

[west fable]

idk its just too weird having a spell that only works in party, better to nerf this spell for solo hunt having stronger debuffs

[flat mist]

If Eldrin put this spell as a reward from Eye of the Flame, being locked wouldnt be a problem at all because Arcane Marksmanship is a huge boost in our power, making team hunts more profitable etc.

but, if its stays as a Holy Rose reward, do the same as Purification - let it be used while soloing, but nerf the boost in spellpower by half.

[tawny quiver]

@west fable I feel the same.

[molten shore]

RPs be like

https://tenor.com/view/indecisive-decisions-no-yes-the-grinch-gif-16695781

[somber crag]

xD its just getting worse and worse by day

[tawny quiver]

hahahahaha I hope Eldrin takes a couple days off after all of this

[coarse blaze]

Made a quick simple sheet for the new formulas so people can see their new damage / spellpower:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19sSpPRjgB99qSrg0UNwLLQlQCyxQq6MQ4IBTvWbkmXI/copy

[finite ice]

i believe its wrong

[carmine comet]

Question to paladins.. why are some of you complaining over the changes or even calling them nerfs? When I check my old and new max dmg it was 1504 sd + 343 arrow dmg = 1847 dmg before and now it’s 1373 sd + 492 = 1.865 dmg. With just hunting arrow. Plus fast Hand got a little buff cause of more dist dmg. So in total more dmg for less gp (?).

[finite ice]

i will pm u on priv

so do we get 99% hit chance or 95? 😮

[tawny quiver]

I think the main topic is the spell, not the balance between autoattack/runes

[knotty creek]

@hallow minnow since demonbone amulet had Precise, and aparently its gonna be removed..... Wouldnt it be fair if it gave some dexterity?

[coarse blaze]

I believe it's 95% max without weapon and then weapon gets added ontop of that?

[west fable]

maybe give some attributes to twin skull amulet? a little bit of dex and strengh and artifact of penance int

[vestal iron]

soo what about people who like play solo? this is demotivating, when i must be in the party shared to using spell.... maybe can be add two spell one for party one for solo

[deep peak]

Quod homines, tot sententiae" my dear friend 🙂

[high cobalt]

the intention was never to make archers better solo, you're not losing any damage

(except for what you lose due to level squish)

[tawny quiver]

@vestal iron thats exactly my point hehe

[polar sage]

U lose rune dmg and healing

On single target it dont matter cuz of red box attack buff but on explo/gfb hunt it does

[high cobalt]

for my character (using mid lvl eq, bow of prim fire) sd hunting is slightly buffed (+2,3%), hmm hunting is well buffed (+31%), and gfb and explo is both on -10%. and if youre explo teamhunting the increased distance dmg makes up for it. solo explo archer hunts arent very prevalent, gfb hunts are tomb and i dont mind those getting less relevant XD
my heal is maybe max 500 less? almost always healing quite a bit sooner than i get that low hp anyway

[ripe mural]

If the spell is teamhunt only I don't think there is any reason to keep HP penalty either? Or at least not as much as -40%. It puts rangers with less HP that mages have.

[high cobalt]

archers should still have more hp even with -40%, and there has to be some drawback

[ripe mural]

you are right

[timber saffron]

Is camouflage fixed?

[short nest]

Yea also they can hit 500,600+ and still heal on the same turn and as a mage that’s impossible

[spring echo]

Whats stats on albino scale mail compared to APA on test?

[high cobalt]

you can login on test, use command !rework tp and you'll get tpd to an area where you can see all items

[snow swift]

what changes will have the archer someone can tell?

[spring echo]

Ty

[somber crag]

angelic plate armor dexterity: +31 (+25) can someone tell me why is that (+25) there?

[stiff linden]

You don't have enough lvl to gain the 31 dex, so you only get 25

[somber crag]

thanks but what about other armors on my 220 archer I look at e.g watcher armor it said item level 280 but it just show dexterity: +24 without this (+#) so it work perfectly even if im not level 280?

[stiff linden]

Yes, you only need to have 80% of the recommended lvl to unlock full dexterity off an item

[brisk wyvern]

I noticed the mana to conjure both heavy arrow and bolt are the same? Is this likely to stay the same even though attack values are not?

[restive marsh]

is aoe arrows coming out in the update / available in test server?

[ripe mural]

No, this idea was scrapped

[ripe mural]

The values are quite confusing as we see @hallow minnow
Maybe instead of x(y) it would be better if it was shown like x/y

[glad condor]

I agree maybe it could be lowered to 30%?

[valid turret]

On TS, magic plate legs have +18 dex and hydra scale legs have +20 dex, but only hydra's having precise for available attribute. Does it mean that regular MPL will still have +18 and regular HSL only +10? Does same logic applies to Vast Grip/Intelligence other items?

[finite ice]

Good question 😂

I can't see halfing dex/str/int be any good if half of it is locked behind attributes means if it's not u locked u get even less of those stats means less dmg?

If ancient xbow has 20 dex 10 from base 10 from attributes it means clean weapon gonna give 10 and full 20

[hallow minnow]

Like this?

[hallow minnow]

It means items with missing attribute will get one.

[finite ice]

That's still confusing to me what if u aim and tooltip pops up explaining?

[blazing dirge]

Lets say the truth - int/dex/str shouldnt be locked behind attributes in the current, very unfair formula. It would make more sense if enchanting has cap for example 9 straight fails? 10th Has 100% chance

[hallow minnow]

This is 41/45 DEX due to you being underleveled. But 20/22 (from property) and 21/23 (from attribute).

[finite ice]

Yes so it means if it's not fully attrid it means helmet hay can be for lvl 300 can have more dex coz it's full and gives 30 and not 21

[gentle hawk]

it was better understandable with the actual bonus in brackets for me

[finite ice]

Same bracket looked better

[valid turret]

quite confusing, id opt for dividing property and attribute part in description or/and add description for this in encyclopedia

[raven violet]

26 DEX item level 300

[finite ice]

I think all calculations are wrong on test server coz it means entire gear was fully unlocked so if I had 57 I will have now maybe 30 dex all depends if I cared to attribute my gear

[hallow minnow]

Alternatively:

[timber saffron]

This

[hallow minnow]

And with proper level.

[valid turret]

41 (20/22+21/23) would be the best

[dusky solar]

or 20/22 (base) + 21/23 (attribute) = new ppl will be asking what does it mean all time ;p

[hallow minnow]

Do they ask what 52+2 attack on weapon means too?

Anyway, I will check one more thing as well.

[gentle hawk]

the issue i see is this forces people to attribute to maintain their current dmg. that is fine if you shoot straight for BIS and attribute that but it makes switching equipment with rising lvl terrible. no problem on highrate, but attributing hf set on legacy for 25kk and 100 lvls later you have to upgrade and attr again to maintain power.. people dont make that much money.

[raven violet]

Will Albino Scail Mail still be useless for paladinos?

[valid turret]

Angelic legs receiving 3 new attributes to spend money on? Picture mage spending 10kk to receive +str and +dex. IMO it's bad idea, please think of other way about reworking items than mess these without already having precise/vastgrip/intelligence

[restive marsh]

hope devs dont make the HR spell gatelocked behind party as not everyone has the luxurious of a team/or prefers hunting solo

[dusky solar]

making ice hmms only in party forgot its archer feedback

😄

[blazing dirge]

Very good, it should be a final form

[timber saffron]

What about spell power items? Like I use emerald mask alot is there any chance we can use 50% of the spell power an item shows to increase our rune dmg? So mask is 20, archer gets 10. It's like same idea as vitality

[ripe mural]

I guess but on live servers it should be x/ total property and y/ total attribute, no x/total property+attribute.
And Also some info when hovering mouse over it what is that

[hallow minnow]

I have implemented it on test server.

[willow shard]

Excuse my paint skills but I think that it's quite confusing that the value of Dexterity under basic properties is now the sum of dex+precise. I suggest you do it like this and then mark the numbers red if you cannot benefit from the full amount of dex on your level. and, if you hover your mouse on the dex you can see what the maximum value of dex on the item is.

also, can we the total sum of str/dex/int under the skills tab? aswell as resistances

[hallow minnow]

Definitely, not now, though.

[hallow minnow]

For now, all I can do is to separate these values when you have full bonus from level.

[haughty wigeon]

https://tenor.com/bSPTZ.gif

[glad condor]

I’ve been off for last day. Why do we have precise attribute now again? Wasn’t it supposed to be converted to dexterity?

[elder locust]

Eldrin, I liked the new descriptions that made the information clearer, but in the area of ​​character status, it would be really cool to bring, for example, the dexterity, strength and total intelligence of the character.

[glad condor]

He literally said it will come but not this patch 4 messages above

[elder locust]

thanks nice, what I am definitely finding very wrong is that even with low level if I use a stronger set for lvl 500 for example it is much more effective than the set for my lvl cap

[glad condor]

that’s how its supposed to be

[haughty wigeon]

u need to change precise attribute name to dexterity else its gonna be really confusing

[carmine comet]

Why is it wrong? People probably spent a lot of cash for those items, why wouldn’t you want them to benefit? Besides, otherwise free market would probably be killed.

[haughty wigeon]

Wont a lot of items become even more expensive to attribute if u add new attributes to them though?

[elder locust]

the game market would be much more dynamic than it is today, after all you go there and buy an encore set or the best you can get to lvl 100 and keep them until a new encore item comes out.... this is my case after all I'm lvl 200 and I have a full set. But in addition to stimulating the market for more items, it would also encourage people to level up to be able to use these... I stopped leveling myself because I have no more goals...

[glad condor]

Actually this makes sense kind of

[valid turret]

Yes and some people will be punished for not choosing right gear. For example there wasn't single boots in game with precise attribute. But even if there were, +1 precise on some items was negligible compared to using +x on resistance or high vita or POM. Now this +1 precise will switch to 5-10-20+ dex meaning a lot more damage

[haughty wigeon]

well patched boots will still be good and those are usually the boots of choice for rps anyway since they give the most speed

[gentle hawk]

yeh, dont reduce items to str/dex/int, they still bring a lot of other stuff to the table. mov speed for example will improve dmg and xp/h in a lot of spawns as well

[hallow minnow]

I did change formula a bit, now if you are underleveled, items with much higher item requirement will give less bonus than items with required level closer to you. I also changed ratio of property/attribute from 50%/50% to 75%/25% Actually changed it to 45%/55%, but increased total bonus. So if you compare it to old value, it's 50%/60%.

[valid turret]

good change, there's no perfect take on balancing almost all gear in game, but now it will be closer to how much attribute adds originally

[sonic axle]

these changes on the test server already ?

[hallow minnow]

Yes.

[gentle hawk]

this forces people to switch eq and also to attribute it every time, as a knight main im like „phew annoying but ey im rich“ but other vocs on normal servers wont be happy

[sonic axle]

wont be rich anymore 😄

[raw copper]

i dont think is about being rich or not, it gives purpose to ppl pursue things for more time, with the upcoming market will be easier to trade those attr items, hopefully

you dont really need full set all the time, the game can be done with clean set till mid level? idk

[gentle hawk]

you need full strength/dex/int for rune dmg to stay the same. unattributed=half value=nerf in dmg compared to live. yes sure you can play with less dmg, all im pointing out is people wont like it 😄

[brisk wyvern]

Noticed a few reductions in items Dexterity now, such as Ent Legs used to be 16, now only 8?

[gentle hawk]

55% is in attribute now.

[brisk wyvern]

These legs are full though

[valid turret]

you will have new attribute to spend cash on

[brisk wyvern]

Ah so if it didnt have Precise beforehand, then it hasnt been added yet to items without to be able to be attributed?

[raw copper]

i feel stronger in any way after update idk

[carmine comet]

I personally strongly disagree with that. I for myself saved cash to be able upgrading my gear, sold the old one etc. Now the (at the moment) better gear might become worse compared to the old I sold. Is this intended? It feels like double nerf.. considering I wouldn’t experience full bonus anyways without the further change.

If it comes to weapons I might now even dmg less than before the update.