Need help with Min Min, Banjo, Terry, Kazuya, Sonic, Snake, Cloud, Joker, Luigi, Mario. (matchups)

[dull vapor]

Who are you requesting?
Players who play the following characters

What is your time zone?
ES

What specifically do you need help with?
I need help with matchups
typically available?
I’m free usually from 4-12 pm
How long have you been playing the game for?
half a year
Can I VC?
No
following matchups are: Min Min, Banjo, Terry, Kazuya, Snake, Joker, Luigi, Mario.

[stable token]

Like EST as time zone?

I got snake btw

[dull vapor]

spain time zone

able to play rn?

got nothing better to do

[stable token]

Yes

[dull vapor]

3JS2F

1

[stable token]

Why do you need help w this match up

[dull vapor]

cuz of that one move

up tilt

i dont have problems with snake normally, but the fear of some moves make me play badly, i wanna play more snakes to get used to it

[stable token]

Just don’t be in front or above me at kill percent (80 and above)

[stable token]

You’re straight buggin dawg

[dull vapor]

im not, lost a tourney yesterday cuz of that fucking up tilt at 60

coulda made top 3 but the nerves of the s tier got to me

[stable token]

🥀

[dull vapor]

ok, this is gonna sound really funny

[stable token]

Bro your character is also s tier

[dull vapor]

i started matchmaking on machbox 2 hours ago and i kinda forgot to cancel matchmaking

[stable token]

Also don’t always attack to get up from ledge

[dull vapor]

can u give me like 10 minutes

[stable token]

Sure

[dull vapor]

u mean w up b?

[stable token]

I mean with your attacks

Any offensive option

[dull vapor]

D2DQ1

1

brochacho didnt answer

@stable token

[dull vapor]

got it

[stable token]

Alr

I gotta check how hurt plays Leo cuz what the frick mate

Wdym this is is even

[dull vapor]

well

tbh i see it

[stable token]

When I’m getting straight diddled I can’t see it

[dull vapor]

cant bacon you, cant really punish your up tilts, if you mix up your grenades it gets tricky to get a full bucket (which is another thing that i wanna practice, getting buckets)

[stable token]

No I mean joker snake

[dull vapor]

oh

idk anything bout that

[stable token]

Also right, you don’t need to always bucket if I pull a nade

It leaves you open

[dull vapor]

you can just toss it and grab me

or smth

[stable token]

Like 1st stock i pulled nade, put it down and then just punished you for it

Uncles I’m cooking it you don’t need to do that

Ok another habit I noticed

When landing with fair do a grab

Like if it hits me dead on

[dull vapor]

ik

i just dont do that cuz ur usually shielding w a nade

[stable token]

Then why aren’t you doing it

[stable token]

So?

[dull vapor]

if i bomb i get hit

cuz ur nade explodes

i mean nade on the ground

[stable token]

Actually, I haven’t seen that but maybe you noticed

But honestly a good 4 times had the opportunity and didn’t

[dull vapor]

gimme a sec

[stable token]

Mb

[dull vapor]

back

idk why i suddenly feel way more confident

i just stopped trying to pressure snake

now im just getting cocky

[stable token]

Bc you realized I’m a scrub, you’re playing online, and this is not a tourney

You do gotta do the fair into grab tho

[dull vapor]

ill try to do more of those yeah

[stable token]

Like I keep noticing opportunities

[dull vapor]

welp, got one atleast, but i cant gt many cuz the worst thing u can do is approach snake

lit not worth it

like ik i approached badly but look at that

u killed me at 80 cuz i tried doing the grab thing

[stable token]

Ok sum that I noticed kinda

[stable token]

I did?

[dull vapor]

yeah you did

[stable token]

Which stock?

[dull vapor]

first one

[stable token]

You weren’t on the ground yet tho

[dull vapor]

i did bomb and ur up tilt both killed me and destroyed the bomb

[dull vapor]

ik i wasnt

just approaching with that is horrible against snake

or kazuya

[stable token]

Ok right I was genuinely just spamming that icl

[stable token]

Why would you do that

[dull vapor]

ikr?????

much better to just spam bombs

outcamp both of those characters

[stable token]

Ok so two things before I forget

[dull vapor]

please do, it gives me fear, making me make more mistakes and probably get hit by it, i need to lose that fear

[stable token]

You need to play vs snake as a numbers game

My 100 is your 75 type of stuff

[dull vapor]

in my opinion ur 130 is my 75, snake is just too heavy

[stable token]

Basically if you’re even in percent you’re behind and if you’re behind in percent you’re getting fried

[stable token]

Seems a bit too high Ngl

[dull vapor]

snake can tank it

[stable token]

Also I just threw out those numbers out of nowhere so like

Second thing you do have to risk reward having bucket filled over actually approaching

[dull vapor]

yeah i saw that

i try to not use it when ur high but atp im just gonna do it

[stable token]

One of those games I racked up like 50+ percent without knowing you even had bucket

[dull vapor]

take the stock and fill another one

[stable token]

Yeah

It’s not hard either

Cuz vs better snakes they’re not gonna let you in when you have bucket

[dull vapor]

no offense to you but it is if the snake mixes his grenades a lot, youre throwing them at me like nothing

like ive played against top top snakes

i genuenly couldnt get a single one

after trying really hard

[stable token]

Honestly yeah

[dull vapor]

but its normal

a bucket is basically a free stock for me

cuz it combos

[stable token]

Like idk enough to keep you out with grendade while also not letting you get bucket

[dull vapor]

thats why this matchup is good for me, again, its not really about this matchup being horrible for me

[stable token]

Idk the sauce

[dull vapor]

i just have fear for the character

[stable token]

Oh ok

[dull vapor]

same thing happens with kazuya

i win that mu too

[stable token]

Just camp him

[dull vapor]

but im horrible at it

[dull vapor]

thats the thing ig, my mental doesnt let me, the nerves get to me and i end up just doing smth stupid

and idrk how to train that besides just playing

which is what im doing rn

???????

the bucket wasnt even there

[stable token]

I’m actually so restarted

[dull vapor]

lol

[stable token]

I autopiloted that twice

I even had the sauce

That first stock bro

[dull vapor]

haha

bro

is therer

ANYTHING

that i can do for that up b

i cant bacon

cant up b

cant back air

cant down air

[stable token]

No actually

[dull vapor]

im genuenly asking, idrk how to edgeguard snake

[stable token]

You can fair but it probably won’t connect

[stable token]

You don’t

[dull vapor]

ig so

[stable token]

That’s why it’s not minus two

[dull vapor]

told you

you always go to 170

orm ore

[stable token]

You didn’t hit any kill moves tbf

Also like

[dull vapor]

true that too

[stable token]

You probably shouldn’t just unload the bucket into literally nothing

[dull vapor]

misimput

[stable token]

Alr

Fair enough

[dull vapor]

u mind if we play later today, gotta go

ggs

[stable token]

Sure

[dull vapor]

like

ig i gotta do more fair grab, but specifically on this mu

why would i ever do that when u can just up tilt us both

[stable token]

Also note that like

[dull vapor]

its not the right mu

[stable token]

If I up tilt or down tilt your shield you’re not punishing it w up b

[dull vapor]

u tilt i knew

down tilt??

really??

[stable token]

Yeah

[dull vapor]

huh

the more you know

well thanks man

i didnt know that

[stable token]

No but fr fr

Whatever that crawling ish was idek why I did it

[dull vapor]

can you punish up tilt with chair btw?

[stable token]

Idk, I wanna say yes

[dull vapor]

lemme try rq

[stable token]

But I truly do not know

[dull vapor]

this is not a match, just to try it rq

[stable token]

Chat I already was in the shower

[dull vapor]

oh

lol

[stable token]

But booty naked

[dull vapor]

well try it later then haha

oh

nvm

i wanna try the dtilt thing too

dont believe it tbh

ok you can KINDA space it

but its not like up tilt

[stable token]

Yeah

[dull vapor]

where it spaces itself

[stable token]

I did it like multiple times

So like Ik I have to space it

[dull vapor]

up tilt no matter where u are i jsut cant punish it

could u get away from that?

[stable token]

I don’t think I’d ever use down tilt up close

I think so

[dull vapor]

try grenade or smth

frame 1

[stable token]

Crazy

[dull vapor]

wait

u couldnt??????

[stable token]

Nah

[dull vapor]

holy shit

this is huge

awww

well

sometims

[stable token]

It’s a mostly

Lemme check the frames

[dull vapor]

bro, do you know how many times you sit at like 180

[stable token]

Uhm…

[dull vapor]

this changes a lot hahahah

[stable token]

!uptilt snake

[dull vapor]

i can just run up shield

[stable token]

Idek

[dull vapor]

yeah lemme check the frame data too

[stable token]

Yeah it makes sense

-18

[fallow granite]

There is no active paged result

[stable token]

Ima go shower now

[dull vapor]

aight

i gotta try smth w the up tilt w you later tho, cuz if it works this matchup IS -2

down smash has 12 frames startup, and your up tilt gets you on the bury hitbox

maybe i can punish up tilt with a bury fsmash

well see

have a good shower

[stable token]

I’ve never heard anyone say that gng

[dull vapor]

Need help with Min Min, Banjo, Terry, Kazuya, Snake, Cloud, Joker, Luigi, Mario. (matchups)

Need help with Min Min, Banjo, Terry, Kazuya, Sonic, Snake, Cloud, Joker, Luigi, Mario. (matchups)

[feral arrow]

I can literally do every other one

I’m active at like 5 cause I get off work at 4:30

[dull vapor]

nice, even banjo? its the rarest one in my opinion

[feral arrow]

I used to main banjo

My first dlc demon

How do you struggle with min min?

I either go kazuya Steve or gnw into min min but most of the time I go kaz

[dull vapor]

i main gnw btw, most of these mus are not bc im supposed to do bad against them

its just that im fairly new to the game, so i dont really have any experience on them

and idk how im supposed to play them

[dull vapor]

i dont know how to approach her vertically, like ik but idk how to minimize the advantage that she gets by just spamming arms ig

i had to go outside but ill be back later today, if ur still up

[feral arrow]

Ah you should put brawler on there too

[dull vapor]

why?

ive never encountered a brawler that gives me trouble tbh, should i be worried?

[feral arrow]

Dang then they must be playing the matchup wrong

That’s usually a losing mu for gnw

[feral arrow]

Yes

You should be worried

[dull vapor]

how is it a losing my

[feral arrow]

In the mu you can’t do a lot especially if they have shotput

[dull vapor]

isnt it like a pirhaña plant neutral b but worse cuz it isnt plus on shield?

[feral arrow]

First shotput vs bucket it just drops on the floor really 2nd you die really early to down throw up b 3rd some of his stuff can beat out your approaching tools

[feral arrow]

Yeah it’s okay but in terms of facing a gnw it’s kinda needed

Or Mach punch

But 9/10 there using shotput

So up b out of shield truly is hell in the matchup

Cause they catch you in air if there on a plat it’s over

[dull vapor]

that was what i was gonna say

no one uses mach

specially against gnw

since mii is short ranged the gnw is mainly gonna zone w bombs and get in sometimes for the bomb grab

if they dont use shot put brawler they got nothing

[dull vapor]

you mean if they catch up b with mach?

[feral arrow]

Catch you with up b

[feral arrow]

Fair gets rid of bombs

[dull vapor]

mind if we play sometime soon?

gotta get practice on these mus

[dull vapor]

@exotic escarp this is the one (sorry to ping you so much, last time i ping u)

and yeah like i said

lemme know

[exotic escarp]

Min Min, Banjo, Terry

Kaz

[dull vapor]

yup

those mus are not bad gnw mus btw

i just struggle against those and more characters

but those most of the time

[exotic escarp]

Yeah I feel you

[dull vapor]

@desert marsh u here?

[desert marsh]

Yeah

I’m gonna be ready in like 20 mins

[dull vapor]

kk

lemme know

ignore the mu thing, anything helps

i used to actually hate bayo cuz i didnt know how to play her, but some good gnws taught me how to play against her

[desert marsh]

@dull vapor

Sorry I improperly estimated

I’m ready now

[dull vapor]

sorry can u give me like 10 mins

i had to go eat

[desert marsh]

Yeah

J555K 4

[dull vapor]

im here

sorry

whos this guy

@desert marsh ?

[desert marsh]

Hi

That’s mix

[dull vapor]

oh

[desert marsh]

He’ll spectate

[dull vapor]

thanks, cuz i was not really hoping for rots yk lol

like i have nothing against him, but still

[desert marsh]

Vc?

[dull vapor]

i dont really have headphones rn, so sorry

[desert marsh]

Ok

You’re very good

I notice you down air a lot

[dull vapor]

i fucking do that!!

everyone tells me i do it

[desert marsh]

Yeah

[dull vapor]

and i just cant get it out of my head man lol

[desert marsh]

It’s okay lmao

Try to break the habit

[dull vapor]

im gonna focus on not doing it this time

[desert marsh]

Also maybe throw in more down smash as a punish if you know it’s safe

Okay you did great!!

[dull vapor]

i try not to punish bayo a lot

[desert marsh]

Don’t run up and down smash though

[desert marsh]

Bayonetta has a ton of end lag so a lot of her moves are very very safe to punish

[dull vapor]

because bayo can either put you on a 0td combo or just straight up counter up smash

[desert marsh]

Shielding heel slide is usually the most common

[dull vapor]

ik, its just that im scared lol, but the side b can be up smashed

on the ground that is

atleast i did less down air tho

thats a step foward

and back to dair LOLL

when i was on shield on the side i was actually reflecting on how i did like 3 dairs in like a second

[desert marsh]

Idk if I can help much cause I’m not really that good 😭

[dull vapor]

aything helps, dont even trip, and ur helping me a ton in seeing what bad habits i have

[stable token]

Put me in coach

Btw you still don’t rly do the fair grab thing as often to note one thing

[dull vapor]

i tried to save you, sorry lol

[desert marsh]

lol

[stable token]

Btw it is kinda hard but try to react if they shield it or get hit by it

[dull vapor]

also youre absolutely right h20

i jsut dont see the openings

[desert marsh]

I’m gonna play a different pocket

[stable token]

It’s something key that top Miya’s do

[stable token]

But why

[desert marsh]

Cause

[dull vapor]

d yall know anyone who plays kaz=?

WORTH ITTTT

[stable token]

Dell

[dull vapor]

btw

i got a question

do yall know of any way to practice grabbing projectiles?

[stable token]

For Santa?

[desert marsh]

Huh 😭

[stable token]

Air dodge in the air

Otherwise you can’t grab the other projectiles

[dull vapor]

yeah but im shit at it, how do i practice so i do it more consistently

[desert marsh]

Is that even worth practicing though

[dull vapor]

is there any way on training?

[dull vapor]

yup

[stable token]

You are bad at anything you don’t do often

[dull vapor]

bc i got to practice for banjo and snake next

banjo specifically

[stable token]

You shouldn’t grab his projectile

[dull vapor]

wym

monte does it all the time

for bucket

[stable token]

I mean actually

[desert marsh]

Usually grabbing something your opponent throws at you and throwing it back isn’t a good idea

[stable token]

Yeah I was gonna say that

[stable token]

Wdym

[dull vapor]

nononono

not throwing it back

[desert marsh]

Someone told me that a long time ago idk

I forgot

[dull vapor]

i grab it

and i go away

[desert marsh]

Oh

[stable token]

They lied

[dull vapor]

up b or smth

and then i bucket

so i dont have to risk getting hit

[desert marsh]

Wait

I’m remembering wrong

[stable token]

🥀

[dull vapor]

u mind on this match throwing me lots of bombs?

ill try to just grab em

[stable token]

Coach put me in

[dull vapor]

if u want we could give Mix that session he wants with you banica

[stable token]

Hooray

[dull vapor]

ill stay with h20

[desert marsh]

I remembered it out of context

[stable token]

Nah I wanted to play one before I left to teach a Mario player

[desert marsh]

I don’t coach 😭

[dull vapor]

ohh

nvm then

only one

imma try just grabbing shi this match

[desert marsh]

Btw im like rlly bad with bayo

Not like horrible but I’m not quite there

Fighting h20 would be better

[dull vapor]

oh shi

srry guys

i gtg

irl stuff

[stable token]

Bye then

[dull vapor]

but thank you both banica and h20 for taking the time

ur both goats

[desert marsh]

Ofc ty

[dull vapor]

@stable token we gotta play some more next time

[dull vapor]

dont say that bro, in my opinion u just gotta work on ur combo game and ur golden

[desert marsh]

Nah there’s a lot more to it

[stable token]

Ofc

[stable token]

That’s not it

At all

[desert marsh]

I’ve been playing her for like 6 months 😭

[dull vapor]

idk bayo but if u know how to punish hard you can afford to get hit in my opinion

but yall are the experts

[stable token]

I’ve been playing snake for 2 I think

[desert marsh]

I should have further progress than I already do but it’s ok

[stable token]

He can’t punish hard

Bayo can’t rly do that

[dull vapor]

ive been playing for 6 months in general so 5 of those are w gnw

[stable token]

Not a good mindset to have

[dull vapor]

just focus on having fun

it really helps

[desert marsh]

She has some of the worst smash attacks and bair is amazing but rarely ever used for punishing on the ground

[desert marsh]

Weren’t you just saying like mindsets don’t matter 😭😭😭

[stable token]

Hey man

[desert marsh]

No I accidentally chose the path of pain and suffering

[stable token]

Do as I say not as I do

[desert marsh]

I picked two of the hardest characters in the game without knowing

It’s okay though I’ll be good in like 2028!!

[dull vapor]

its all about the music ur listening to

[stable token]

Oh yeah

J I got to b- rank

[desert marsh]

Oh cool

Btw

It’s going to be hell to get out of b rank

[dull vapor]

when i listen to the fnak ost i do much better lol

[desert marsh]

b rank is so hard

There’s a whole YouTube video explaining it

[stable token]

It’s always hell

I was literally finna crash out

[dull vapor]

whats b rank?

[stable token]

They brought it all the way back but we brought it back more

[stable token]

Splatoon stuff

Not related

He just plays splatoon and is also b rank

[dull vapor]

oh

the third one?

[stable token]

?

[dull vapor]

splatoon 3

[desert marsh]

I was x rank once

I gotta start playing again

But it’s SO HARD to make an outfit

[dull vapor]

@feral arrow ellow?

[feral arrow]

Wsg ma

I’m currently doing coaching atm

I got you when I’m free

[dull vapor]

def, looking foward to it

[dull vapor]

@crystal badge i need some help with the palutena matchup, i dont feel like im playing it correctly, i wont be asking you during new years cuz we both have a life XD but will you be available to explain to me how the mu works and maybe play some games with some feedback at the end after new years?

[crystal badge]

ahh this

[crystal badge]

we can play here soon if you want or later

[dull vapor]

I'll be home in a few hours, If ur ok w that

I'll see u soon spair : )

[crystal badge]

ok

[dull vapor]

@crystal badge hey spair

U there?

[crystal badge]

hey

[dull vapor]

Ill make an arena in a sec if ur free to play a few rn

[crystal badge]

ok

[dull vapor]

Before we begin tho

How would you say the palutena/gnw matchup works?

In your opinion

Like what are each characters objectives and what does gnw have to keep in mind when playing the mu

Cuz I have zero clue on how to play this tbh

[crystal badge]

honestly

its not too much different from most mus

[dull vapor]

MQ42P

1

[crystal badge]

gnw has to look out for fair and bair and he wants to avoid doing so much up b oos

but besides that there isnt too much different

maybe watch for how palu uses neutral and side b since they can force a full bucket to start camping

[dull vapor]

I have a few problems dealing with the side b tbh, like ik I have bucket but still

[dull vapor]

Yeah that was what I was gonna say

[crystal badge]

its not like

a strong thing

[dull vapor]

I should forget about the bucket? Like throw it in the opponents direction but not care too much about it

[dull vapor]

Side b?

[crystal badge]

no just the the strat

[dull vapor]

The up b

[crystal badge]

ok you dont wanna play neutral that slow

[dull vapor]

Wym?

[crystal badge]

i can just outrange you if you are gonna sit back and wait

since i have bair and fair that just poke and stuff out most of gnw's tools

[dull vapor]

I should approach more then?

[crystal badge]

you dont have to like fully approach but you dont wanna give me a lot of room all the time

[dull vapor]

I see

[crystal badge]

1 sec

[dull vapor]

Kk

I gotta be honest the dash attack nor hitting u on ledge threw me off balance

[crystal badge]

yeah my ledge hang is good

chill on the dairs

[dull vapor]

I'm currently working on that yeah

[crystal badge]

yea

i feel like you just need to work more on overall gnw stuff rather than mu specific stuff

cause a lot of what you are getting caught by is lack of knowledge or just not being as aware in situations, not anything character specific

like how you are di'ing down throw

you gotta di out

or how you are playing advantage state, you can get a lot more than what you are getting now

[dull vapor]

I di'ed in on that last one accidentallt

[dull vapor]

Idk how tho 😭😭😭

[crystal badge]

you just go for more

[dull vapor]

Besides just up airing more which I can't do

Cuz reflector

[crystal badge]

you juggle or catch landings

you have nair'

[dull vapor]

I mean true

[crystal badge]

and you can delay up air

[dull vapor]

I just can't seem get to anything

[crystal badge]

yeah im just moving around what you want with not much issue rn

[dull vapor]

How do I even practice this?

[crystal badge]

its not really something you practice

getting better just happens with practice in general

you will learn how to make things work for you, how to open your opponent

things of that nature come over time

its just about taking the time to figure it out

[dull vapor]

I'm at like 1400 rn, I don't really feel like I'm gonna be good when I have the amount of hours that u have yk?

I don't like leaving things to time ig

Cuz it might not happen at all

[crystal badge]

you have some really linear habits going on'

[dull vapor]

Dair

[crystal badge]

you also really struggle to pin me down for a kill

not even dair

how you just press f tilt all the time in kill range

[dull vapor]

What are these habits of mine?

[crystal badge]

like i got away with holding shield after you landed on me with fair or bair cause you always f tilt

[dull vapor]

Oh so more fair grabs

I don't mix up that enough

[crystal badge]

you also tend to not push your pressure more when you could

you can do anything as a mix just always doing f tilt right after isnt good if they notice it

it becomes a really easy thing to call out

[dull vapor]

Like

Atleast I'm getting better results, I still don't like the way I play against palu

But still

I always up b from ledge yeah

[crystal badge]

yeah like you cant up b away all the time in this mu

i can just catch it, a good amount of the cast can

you gotta be careful with when you do it

[dull vapor]

I'm being reckless with it yeah

[crystal badge]

its also bad to always do it cause you could be getting more off something else

you are just really linear in your overall play

very flow chart

[dull vapor]

Yeah I just don't feel like I'm enjoying this anymore, and I'm just not playing right

[crystal badge]

thats fair

[dull vapor]

I guess I'll just play and contact you once I'm better ig

Goodbye for now

[crystal badge]

ggs