I am going to be unavailable for the entire weekend I am going to LMBM, idk about today either
#In need of a Lucas coach
dense quartz
Is @oblique bone a lucas main?
carmine bramble
Pinged him for a reason
dense quartz
Since he didn't pick up could you help me somtime this or next week @carmine bramble?
dense quartz
I though i had to delete it so i could make another one asking Mudz to for coaching, but i found out that i didn't
I can remake it tho
carmine bramble
Yeah don't delete
dense quartz
What is your time zone?
Central USA
What specifically do you need help with?
I want to learn how to use Lucas's gameplay in competitive.
When are you typically available?
Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays around 4PM
How long have you been playing the game for?
Since launch and i have gotten 1,250 hours in it
Can I VC?
If it helps
@carmine bramble hows that?
carmine bramble
I can do today at 4:00
dense quartz
Ok
dense quartz
Wait, actually are you open at 5?
carmine bramble
Yeah
Sorry I got caught up and then also forgot
💀
I will be there at 5:00 but ping me too
dense quartz
👍
dense quartz
Yo @carmine bramble
dense quartz
Pretty good
carmine bramble
Do you have any gameplan with him?
I'm just looking for more details there's not much for me to go off of from your post
dense quartz
Honestly it depends on the character im fighting
carmine bramble
To an extent yeah, but at a base level what you want to do with a character remains fairly static
Like I'm always going be looking to poke at people with my fair doesn't matter the char, I'm always gonna try to box with ftilt doesn't matter the char
Let me play a game rq
dense quartz
I'd say try to get him off stage then edge gaurd
carmine bramble
Lucas does have a strong offstage game in terms of edgeguarding, but that's more a goal of your gameplan not the gameplan itself
How do you get people offstage for edgeguards?
dense quartz
down throw F-air, down air into down air into f-smash, or a fast fall f-air
I've also tried the Z-air cancle but i can't get it
carmine bramble
That's just listing moves and combos
Again it's not a gameplan, not necesarily
What's more is I didn't really see any of those from you, you spent most of the map jumping and double jumping around the stage and floating in the air
You just gave me stage control which isn't typically something you want to do
You want to understand what you want and what are your strongest moves to accomplish that
For example
I want to control the ground
I can do this if I fast fall fair
The reason fast fall fair works best is because it's controls the space in front me very good, it is very fast, it is disjointed so people can't contest it easily, and it is safe for me to do so there is little risk of a response I cannot deal with
It's not about just using moves its about understanding why we use them
This doesn't stuff doesn't always click right away, so don't worry
But when you play the game you want to be more self conscious of your character's tools and how they help you reach your goals
I want to try and play more on the ground, don't be in the air as much as Lucas that's not where he's good
carmine bramble
The reason fast fall fair works best is because it's controls the space in front...
What's more, if the fair hits they get sent offstage, it combos at low percents into moves that'll send offstage
So it accomplishes my goal too
Am I making sense?
dense quartz
Yes
carmine bramble
Okay
Let's play again, try and stay more grounded, try and abuse your fast fall fair more
dense quartz
ok
carmine bramble
Why are you full hop dj dairing
dense quartz
I actaully have no clue why i did that. i may have thought you were gonna come up with up air but in hindsight it made no sense.
carmine bramble
Why would I
I told you Lucas wants to be on the ground
You're in the air giving me what I want so I'm not gonna chase you of course
I'm gonna let you land and punish the landing
It's good you have a reason it's just not the right idea
Okay
Another game
dense quartz
Ok
carmine bramble
Think about what you're doing and what it's accomplishing for you
Don't worry about trying to win right now
That's not the point
That was better because you weren't lauching yourself to the stratosphere every opportunity
Your movement just feels very unnatural
When you actually try and occupy the space I want to control you force me to respect you more
I can't just do whatever I want
Do you understand the difference in that game and the ones before it
dense quartz
Sort of
carmine bramble
Because you played on the ground more
And because it's what I want
I can't do whatever I want now
When you're in the air I get to do whatever I want to do
There's no reason for me to respect you because there's nothing you can possibly do to threaten me
dense quartz
Quick question should i be using the c stick for my air attacks?
carmine bramble
Whatever is comfortable for you
I play on box now so like
But uh, when I was on a normal controller I mostly used c stick for them
There were some exceptions
Like I did down + a for dair out of short up
Up + a for full hop up air
C stick would make fast fall fairs very easy imo
So definitely use it for those
dense quartz
got it and also how do i do the rope snake fast fall?
carmine bramble
I'm not teaching you djcz if that's what you're asking
You're not a position where it would do anything of value for you
dense quartz
fair enough
carmine bramble
And it would just distract from what you need to be focused on improving
dense quartz
Wait are we playing?
carmine bramble
Do you have any more questions
dense quartz
no
carmine bramble
Very unlucky trip that wouldn't have been true otherwise
Yeah right now you gotta get more comfortable with movement
You're too reliant on shield and rolling to move around
For all intents and purposes
If you're in shield, that's bad
If you have to roll, that's bad
You want to be comfortable with how you control your movement without relying on defensive options constantly
It's something to definitely address
Am I understood
dense quartz
Yes
carmine bramble
Okay good
This game, I want to see your ability to short hop
So we're not actually playing
dense quartz
Got it
carmine bramble
Is that one button
dense quartz
No
carmine bramble
Try one button
You'll thank me later
One button short hop is a good ability to have with Lucas
I noticed you didn't really short hop all that much in matches
Even I mess up every now and again but it's something you want to get as consistent as possible
Lucas short hop is integral to his neutral
You've gotten 4 in a row so far which is not bad actually
Aim for 5
That was good
Everytime you get on to play this game
Do this and only this for 5 minutes in training mode before you actually play
You will learn this in no time flat
And then you can do it without even thinking about it
dense quartz
Got it how can i do it with the bumper?
carmine bramble
I mean the same way
Just hit the button quickly
If you're on gcc it might be harder
Why do you want to do it on bumper
dense quartz
Cause thats the button im use to jumping with
carmine bramble
Pro or gcc
dense quartz
GCC
carmine bramble
Gcc honestly might be too difficult
You have multiple jump buttons though you revealed that
What are your other jump buttons
dense quartz
Y
carmine bramble
Honestly just learn it with y
Gcc bumpers are too hard to get it consistently
To my knowledge at least
dense quartz
Can't you cut the springs down in it to make it easier?
carmine bramble
Actually I have my gcc plugged lemmie use that instead of box
I'm not an expert on controllers you'd have to ask around
Smaller springs probably would make it easier
But once you can short hop consistently with one button
Then you can start learning short hop fast fall
And that's when Lucas becomes a monster
I have a good reason for forcing you to do this with one button btw, trust me
dense quartz
ok so don't jump with trigger?
carmine bramble
If you can get it consistently with trigger go for it
But button jump would be easier
dense quartz
Should i switch to pro controller?
carmine bramble
Honestly no, no reason to switch controllers
The difference is neglible
I only play on box because of my hands
It's easier on them
dense quartz
Actaully wait you mentioned a box earlier. will that help with hand pain?
carmine bramble
Yes
dense quartz
How much are they typically?
carmine bramble
They get expensive. Mine was built for me by someone in my scene so it was much cheaper
Around $60
But I imagine real ones are minimum $100
Minimum
dense quartz
ok i should prolly switch then.
carmine bramble
If you have poor hand health it would help
It doesn't take that long to learn
I switched to box in July last year
dense quartz
Yea i have EDS so it'll prolly help
dense quartz
nope
carmine bramble
Okay I'll call it here I think there's enough for you to go off of and start practicing. Focus on your movement, so learning to short hop and short hop fast fall, learning to move around the stage without rolling, learning to rely on shield less, playing on the ground more, and understanding what your character wants and what tools you have to accomplish it
Practice this stuff we can meet again in a week if you want
carmine bramble
Should be fine if that changes I'll let you know
dense quartz
Ok thank you
carmine bramble
Yup
carmine bramble
Go for it
dense quartz
How does pk thunder work on box?
carmine bramble
Pretty much the same if you understand how it's programmed
PK Thunder doesn't register the motion of you stick
It registers the direction
So holding left moves it left, holding right moves it right, holding down moves it down, holding up moves it up
So if the stage is to my left, it's up b, right, down, up
It takes a little bit of practice it's probably the thing you'll learn fastest it's not as hard as it seems
dense quartz
What is your box controller called?
carmine bramble
Mine is custom built via 3D printer, it's a Bubblebox with Haybox firmware
oblique bone
carmine bramble
Were it so easy
dense quartz
Who is this?
oblique bone
Who is this?
Perfect cell
dense quartz
Perfect cell
ehh Mr. Satan solos
dense quartz
Were it so easy
I figured out how to cancel double jump with rope snake!
carmine bramble
It should not be your focus atm
It's not useful if you can't short hop consistently
dense quartz
It's not useful if you can't short hop consistently
Oh i figured out how. i ended up sitting down for like an hour just doing it in traning.
carmine bramble
Good
carmine bramble
I mean if it's a box remapping is legal
dense quartz
only box?
dense quartz
Besides short hopping, are there any other things i need to practice?
dense quartz
Everything else I said
Are you free a diffrent day. i can't make it today lol
carmine bramble
What day
dense quartz
Friday work?
carmine bramble
Mmmmm probably not that's a local day but idk I'm going for sure yet
dense quartz
Thurday?
carmine bramble
Sure
carmine bramble
Sure
carmine bramble
HFCV0
55
carmine bramble
KTW8X
500
dense quartz
in
carmine bramble
Okay I'll Mulligan that
dense quartz
Muligan?
carmine bramble
I won't say anything about the match
dense quartz
oh got it
carmine bramble
You're going for a lot of nairs in neutral and a lot of dash grabs in neutral
What is your decison making process
dense quartz
I thought that nairs could be an safe to use when im being approached. As for dash grabs kinda come out due to desperation.
carmine bramble
I'm gonna address the dash grabs first
dense quartz
Dash grabs and rolling come out due to desperation
carmine bramble
That's a bad reason to do anything, do not do something because you don't know what to do. If you don't know what to do then do nothing, watch your opponent, watch their movement, try to understand what they're looking for
If you do want to commit to something preemptively, it should be something that isn't very committal. Like, sometimes I'll dtilt or jab 1 (as Ness) just to throw them out because they do control a little bit of space and they mix up the tempo on my movement
But on top of that, they're also very fast moves so I'm not trapped in a long animation if my opponent does do something I wasn't expecting
Dash grab is a very very long animation so if you miss you get punished more of the time
Dash grab is something to do if your oppponent is shielding a lot especially when you run up to them
I'm not doing that, I'm moving around a lot so dash grab is a bad option to choose
You have a better reason for doing nair but it's just the wrong answer to the right idea
Lucas nair isn't very good as a boxing tool (something that prevents people from approaching)
When we want to control space or 'box,', we want moves that have direction and priority
Direction means the hitbox is a spot that prevents the opponent from approaching there. Like if you up tilt, the direction is up
Priority means the ability for the move to beat other moves
Again, up tilt isn't a part of Lucas' body so it will beat moves that are a part of the opponent's body, for example Falcon nair
Nair isn't big enough to have priorty and there's not really any direction to it, because again it's not big enough
If you want to stop people from approaching, ftilt, retreating fair, up tilt are all better moves
dense quartz
What about a bounce pk fire?
carmine bramble
Wavebounce PK Fire is a projectile so it has both
The problem is it's kinda slow and people can react to you doing it
It's something to use more when you know your opponent is gonna commit to something and you want to punish that commitment
CTNM8
50
Understand what moves accomplish for you is integral to understanding what you should use in neutral
If you want to control space, think about the direction you move goes and if it has priority
Lucas has a lot of moves that do that
Am I understood?
Do I make sense?
dense quartz
Yes
carmine bramble
Okay say that then instead of having me sit for 3 minutes waiting for a response
dense quartz
Sorry i was looking at lucas's frame data
carmine bramble
Is there anything you have questions on
dense quartz
No
carmine bramble
Don't land on stage like that you will die for it
Go to ledge do not try to occupy my space from a bad position
It's like holding the high ground
I have to work way less than you to win the situation
Better usage of your moves
But why are you just standing in the corner
dense quartz
I was standing still in the corner?
carmine bramble
You are not aware of what you're doing during the match?
dense quartz
I guess not in that regard.
carmine bramble
That's not good
You spent most of the match in the corner throwing out moves that did nothing to threaten me
Because you're not playing at a range where they can possibly hit me
You have to pay attention to the match, that's integral to fighting games
Otherwise there is no adaption, there is no learning and everything I say to you means nothing
dense quartz
Got it
carmine bramble
Why are you dash grabbing
dense quartz
Accidental input.
carmine bramble
How many times did you dash grab though
What are you trying to input but getting grab instead
Why did that take 2 minutes to answer
Nevermind I remember
Okay
Would VC be easier for you
I don't have my Elgato setup today otherwise I use that resource too
dense quartz
Can't right now
carmine bramble
Okay
dense quartz
Here gimmie a sec im goona go take somthing really quick
carmine bramble
Okay
dense quartz
Alright im back
carmine bramble
Do you know why you lost there
dense quartz
I had the same approach to getting off of ledge
carmine bramble
Yes
Actually a very good answer
A very smart answer
I was expecting 'because I ledgedropped and you nair'd' which is fine but it's a less insightful outlook
What you said
Shows awareness of the overall match
That's incredible to be able to do
The question is, are you able to adapt those habits now that you know I'm aware of you want at ledge and will punish it
You have some other good moments too
Like the first stock, approaching with fair, which has the direction to threaten and THEN grabbing, that's the right idea
That's what we want
dense quartz
Would magnet have worked in that instance at the ledge?
carmine bramble
No Ness nair would have beaten any ledgedrop or jump option
You could try rolling or neutral getup but that's the thing with Ness
He can do nair twice in his jump, so I do the first and the drift and react with the second nair if you roll or neutral getup
It can work but best option just wait and see how what I do after the nair
No reason to immediately get off ledge
dense quartz
Got it
carmine bramble
The question is, are you able to adapt those habits now that you know I'm aware ...
This concerns me
How many times would you say you did neutral getup into shield on that last stock alone
dense quartz
5 times i should have tried to go around it.
carmine bramble
Well you tried that the time but I was doing ftilt up to cover both jumping and neutral getup
Because if you neutral getup you're forced to shield the ftilt and then I get to pressure your shield
And if you jump you get hit by the ftilt
So you want to roll there or again wait for the ftilt and then choose something
dense quartz
Got it also in the start i kept throwing myself off the stage trying to wave bounce a pk fire
carmine bramble
Yeah I noticed
Neutral is a bit better
What would you say I'm looking for in neutral
dense quartz
Trying to take controll of the stage using Psi attacks and ariels
carmine bramble
Not really I'm playing a very unorthodox Ness rn
Not a lot of aerials or special moves
dense quartz
Is that why you are using a lot of ground atacks?
carmine bramble
Yes, a lot of my neutral is dashing around the stage
And throwing out preemptive jab 1's and dtilts
It's testing how you react and it's testing your spacing
Because if I jab 1 I can just go back to moving around again
But if you're careless and run into it then I get a free jab 2 jab 3
You can definitely beat this it's just seeing if you can space yourself
Lucas has moves that outrange this
Because while the moves are fast they don't control a lot of space
It all comes back to that
dense quartz
Got it.
carmine bramble
A little better but the big issue for you is adaption
You know what I'm looking for so stop doing it
A lot of people don't even have that awareness you have to power to mix me up
Another thing this playstyle showcases is just how important movement is
I'm not winning by doing any crazy Ness stuff I'm just moving around, getting my hits and making them count
dense quartz
i think i got it, but i also had a question.
carmine bramble
Ask
dense quartz
Should i only be using one button to jump? I keep switching between jump buttons which messes me up.
carmine bramble
I mean
When I was on gcc
I used shoulder jump to sh uair, x to short hop and tap jump to full hop
It's whatever is your preference
But on box I pretty much only use x and sometimes tap jump for idj stuff
I think we made good progress, you know what to focus on
Movement, movement, movement, movement and adapting your options based on what your opponent is looking for
You have the right idea trying to beat me with your fairs you just can't space them properly yet
dense quartz
Alright. also which chat channel would you recomend me start on for match making?
carmine bramble
I solo main Lucas but I sometimes play Ness in tournaments for fun
His neutral is pretty straightforward
But I playing a more fgc-inspired neutral with him to make some points
dense quartz
How long have you been maining him for?
carmine bramble
I've always played Ness but didn't start using him in tournament setting until a year ago
dense quartz
Sorry i ment lucas.
carmine bramble
Since I've played Smash
Ult's been around like 5 years
I played at the end of Smash 4 so 5+ years
dense quartz
Is lucas a character better suited as a main?
carmine bramble
I believe you should just play who you like
dense quartz
Yea i know that, but it seems like some characters (like pikachu or peach) seem to be better suited as mains. is that the same case for lucas?
carmine bramble
Probably
dense quartz
Ok, can we meet again next week?
carmine bramble
If you feel you need it sure
dense quartz
Lets go next friday
carmine bramble
Alr
dense quartz
Ok thank you.
dense quartz
What other situations can i use magnet in besides absorbing?
dense quartz
Ah ok thanks
carmine bramble
Oh I can't believe I forgot the biggest use, turning yourself around in the air
It's his best b reverse
dense quartz
Oh like to turn around to face ledge and tether
carmine bramble
Yes
carmine bramble
Uhhhhh
dense quartz
DIdn't think so lol
dense quartz
Funnily enough the last two matches were Lucas dittos. the first one had an issue with being approached and the second one couldn't space correctly.
dense quartz
What were movments that you thought i was lacking in specifically?
carmine bramble
You don't know how to space yourself
Both in terms of trying poke at me, you can't do it safely
Or if you're trying to control space it's not threatening
dense quartz
Whats the best way to practice?
carmine bramble
For movement, training mode
Go into like battlefield and just practice moving around the stage as if you're playing a match
There's also shadowboxing
Where you try to space your moves as close to the dummy without hitting it
dense quartz
Question: what were areas that i was doing well in?
carmine bramble
You have good awareness you just need to capitalize on that
dense quartz
U wanna go 4 (CT)?
dense quartz
You have good awareness you just need to capitalize on that
yo when u wanna start?
carmine bramble
You want to go right now?
dense quartz
Sure
carmine bramble
Give me a min
1G576
55
Probably the best I've seen you play yet
Movement is a lot better and feels more natural
BUT you are rolling way too much
You handle ledge better
Could mix up your timing more and be more conscious of my positioning when I'm ledgetrapping
dense quartz
Ok makes sense
carmine bramble
You finally did it
carmine bramble
You rolled from ledge when I was positioning myself close to it
I've been doing that the entire time waiting to see if you would roll
Since in that circumstance it's the correct decision
I can't cover roll if I don't place myself at a distance where I can punish it on reaction
Can't be skipping past ledge btw most characters will kill you for trying
So don't especially if you have nowhere to land
Good usage of ftilt
I wanna see the rolls stop and I wanna see fair get implemented
dense quartz
Alright
dense quartz
Its the point in the game where players are evenly matched
carmine bramble
Kinda
A better description is both players have all their options normally available to them
Because there can be points of advantage in neutral
For example, one player has a stock lead
That's a very clear advantage
But that doesn't mean neutral stops existing
Your goal is not to hit your opponent it is to limit what the opponent can do
Put them in a place of pressure
dense quartz
Got it; so that is when u get stage control
carmine bramble
Stage control is a pretty good indicator, the player that can move around the stage the most generall has more options than their opponent
There's exceptions like zoners but zoners cheat so pretend they don't exist right now
There 3 ways to approach neutral
Forward movement
Space control
Whiff punishing
Forward movement is self explanatory, it's moving towards your opponent to occupy their space and try to force them to back up, limiting how much they can move
Space control is using your attacks to control a portion of the stage, preventing your opponent from going there
Whiff punishing is using an attack in response to your opponent attack to punishing them for missing theirs
So we end up forming a triangle
And neutral becomes a lot like rock paper scissors
dense quartz
Oh so like the fire water grass
carmine bramble
Forward movement beats whiff punishing, space control beats forward movement, whiff punishing beats space control
Kinda yeah
carmine bramble
If the opponent keeps waiting for me to do something they can whiff punish, I get to walk forwards for free because they're just gonna back up anticipating what I'm going to do; If I throw out an attack that controls space and my opponents walks forwards, they get hit. If I throw out an attack to control space my opponent can react to it and punish me for it
Alr
We can start when you come but I'm gonna talk about how it applies to Lucas
carmine bramble
Okay the arena will probably shut down but yeah
dense quartz
dang so close lol
dense quartz
Ok
carmine bramble
I'm divide it into 2 portions, pokes and well, space control
Pokes is the offensive side, it's when you're attacking
You're trying to annoy the opponent into opening up and giving you what you want
You want moves that have speed and range for them
Space control is like what I describe, you're preventing the opponent from occupying a part of the stage
For them you want direction (where the opponent is going to come from) and priority (the ability to beat moves with your own)
Lucas foward air
Lucas forward tilt
Fair is your poke
Ftilt is your space control
Fair is fast and has good range thanks to your air speed
Ftilt is very big and so it controls a lot of direction and priority
I want you think about playing the game with these two moves being the foundation to neutral
dense quartz
What about rope snake
dense quartz
Poke right?
carmine bramble
Why
dense quartz
Because you can use it to occupy two diffrent areas so if you think your oppent will move their you can position it to go there
carmine bramble
You're describing space control right now but that is correct
dense quartz
wait thats space controll
carmine bramble
It is technically both
It has range and speed too
You can use it for both
Zair is really good for space control because it's active for a very long time
dense quartz
OH ok
carmine bramble
So it's a hitbox the opponent has to respect a lot
carmine bramble
Very consistent better than the first time I saw it
Uh yeah focus on just approaching with fair like that and getting used to moving with it
Yeah when you try to move around rn it's get a lot less natural
You struggle with the short hop then
Try and implement it now
dense quartz
Ok
carmine bramble
Right idea
Yeah you have the right idea just at the end you telegraphed what you were going for with the fullhop so I punished it preemptively
My side b has super armor so that gives it better priority
But yes this is the right just gotta keep refining it
Lucas is one of those characters where you can just play neutral forever because his neutral is good
But ultimately we don't just want to play neutral the entire game
The idea is to put the opponent in a position of disadvantage to make getting our combos and kills easier
Let's cover a little bit of combos
dense quartz
ALright
carmine bramble
Lucas combos are a little complicated so I'm gonna start with the very easy of the easy
Best beginner combo starters are up air and dtilt
Dtilt combos into jab, ftilt, grab, that's the three main things to look for when you land it
Dtilt ftilt is like the first combo you should learn
Uair combos into pretty much anything falling including itself
But mainly itself, nair, fair, bair, utilt
dense quartz
Alright
dense quartz
You want me to do that?
carmine bramble
That's the way to think about that move
Yeah starting to build muscle memory
dtilt ftilt
Baby's first Lucas kill confirm
Abuse this like no tomorrow this is such an easy combo but it has so much mileage
Dtilt grab pretty simple also
Dtilt is very fast so that makes it good throw out preemptively
Preemptive moves btw it's in the name
But it's moves you can throw out before your opponent does anything as a just in case
You want moves that are very fast in both startup and end lag
So it makes it hard for you to get whiff punished
Up air
Use this to whiff punish
You want to use it as you land, just like fair
In fact it's exactly like fair
But it combos easier for beginners
Fair can also combo but you have to know how to space it
Up air combos into a lot but at low percents, try to get nair
Mid percents another uair
High percents fair
Nah nah the nair needs to be rising
You can use the macro for nair it's okay here
Hit jump + a you'll never mess it up
dense quartz
Question: how come somtimes nair comes out when i use C stick?
dense quartz
Can i turn that off?
carmine bramble
No
It's a problem with the game's engine
Start employing dtilt as a preemptive option
And uair as a whiff punish
dense quartz
Ok
carmine bramble
Combos are something you'll have to practice in training, I can send some basic ones to learn
I don't have anything more I want to cover rn
dense quartz
Alright
carmine bramble
Rn the biggest combo to start learning are uair ladders and uair nair fair
carmine bramble
Are you still being challenged in beginner
dense quartz
I havent lost a game
carmine bramble
Yeah then go to intermediates
carmine bramble
If you want
dense quartz
ok what day works
carmine bramble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw_3M-grBsU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBO5cpmRov8
learn these two
Can't do Friday
I wish the first one was recorded better that's an up air to start it
Up air nair fair
Saturday Sunday are fine tho
dense quartz
Ok lets do saturday afternoon
carmine bramble
Okay
If you still need help with the combos by like
Wednesday then ask
But spend time on your own trying to get them down
dense quartz
But spend time on your own trying to get them down
Question: how often do you recommend training (like in training mode)?
carmine bramble
Every time you play the game at the very least
It doesn't need to be long
In fact, the best way to build retention is sort bursts of practicing something, dropping it and doing something COMPLETELY unrelated and then coming back to practice the original thing again
dense quartz
Yo is @oblique bone still around?
oblique bone
Yo is <@764644289900052482> still around?
dense quartz
Can u give me a quick rundown of composure
dense quartz
It doesn't need to be long
Since i'll never see him again, can u explain how you keep composure?
oblique bone
Since i'll never see him again, can u explain how you keep composure?
I can give you a rundown lol
I was driving when you sent that and I forgot
Just give me a bit
dense quartz
Just give me a bit
Oh ok sorry lol 😂
carmine bramble
Yeah I don't really have an explanation I just have good composure
It's easy for me to tune things out
And focus on the game
oblique bone
Oh ok sorry lol 😂
Composure comes from before the game, not just during. What do you think you struggle with most in terms of it
dense quartz
Composure comes from before the game, not just during. What do you think you str...
Getting Overwhelmed as well as aggro (not like rage, but more annoyed)
carmine bramble
Composure comes from before the game, not just during. What do you think you str...
I'm gonna have the King of the Challengers role by the time this conversation sees a conclusion
Let me check rq
Yeah Tuesday should be fine
carmine bramble
I have the same problem I go on wild tangents
Might have undiagnosed adhd it's bad
dense quartz
Might have undiagnosed adhd it's bad
Your not a true gamer unless you do have some form of ADHD lmao 🤣
dense quartz
@carmine bramble what time today?
carmine bramble
Editting in a mention doesn't send the notifcation
Probably towards the evening
5:00-6:00 cst if that works
dense quartz
5:00-6:00 cst if that works
ok
dense quartz
like rn?
carmine bramble
5:30
dense quartz
How has your progress been
Still kinda stuglling with the combos
carmine bramble
Yeah I said if you were struggling by Wednesday lmk
What are you struggling with about them
dense quartz
FOr the head butt one the two grounded ones are kinda tricky, and for the other one the getting the nair.
carmine bramble
So if I understand correctly
You're struggling with landing uair
Into uair
And then uair nair
For the other
dense quartz
No the few times i got the intially up air i was able to do the rest sucessfully
carmine bramble
You said you were struggling the two grounded ones
Which is landing uair into uair
dense quartz
Oh ok then yea ur right
carmine bramble
Can you land the first uair fine
dense quartz
Kinda
carmine bramble
What is the success rate in training mode
dense quartz
50% that the first one works and like 20% that i can get the second one
carmine bramble
I need the first uair at 95% of the time it hits
If a combo is giving you trouble then you have to break down the individual parts of them and practice that alone
Uair uair uair uair works like this
dense quartz
I need the first uair at 95% of the time it hits
Ight i gotchu
carmine bramble
Short hop, once you reach the apex of your jump, input uair and fast fall
Once you land, input short hop and uair
Double jump uair
Uair
Break the combo down practice the individual steps until they get consistent
dense quartz
Can i buffer the second uair
carmine bramble
The very first uair that's just something you have to practice your spacing, learning to wait until you reach the top of your short hop and then you uair
Yeah it's a short hop uair so it can buffered with the macro input
The second uair literally just do x + up + a
Rather, buffer the short hop then x + a you wanna be wary of up smash
Uair nair is the same thing but you're nairing instead of doing a second uair
Buffer with x + a
It's super easy
jump + a
Use some more universal terminology
How about actual matches, how have those been
dense quartz
Alright i was able to do it
dense quartz
How about actual matches, how have those been
Lemie check
carmine bramble
?
dense quartz
Win rate for the last 50 games is around 70%
carmine bramble
I'm not asking your win rate if asking if you've been able to apply the information given to you sufficiently
dense quartz
Oh yea
carmine bramble
Does my clarifications on the combos help
dense quartz
Yea i was able to do it now
dense quartz
ok
dense quartz
I kept goin pk fire off stage
I would air dodge into the stage which left me open
I think i miss opproutunities to do the up air combo when u were in the sky
I also had lackluster attemps at getting stage control
carmine bramble
I agree yes you panic air dodge way too much
Respecting me in the air is fine multi jump chars are tricky to know how they're gonna land
Observations about my play though
dense quartz
Biggest one i think is that you were able to easily adapt to my aproach to getting back on stage
carmine bramble
Idk who taught you djcz from ledge but every Lucas abuses it especially at the low level
And the counterplay is unbelieveably easy
But nah I'm looking more for observations in neutral
And I think the answers kinda show there'sa gulf there, especially with the progression on how the matches went
dense quartz
Oh you were able to perry my down tilt a few times
You used nair as a way to control space i belive
and u primarally were pushing me back towards the ledge
carmine bramble
Nair is a great space control move but it's something I actually use in reaction to you jumping
Preemptively is more dtilt
Big thing is yeah you're not that safe with the ranges you're playing in you which is fine a lot of people underestimate how much space Ridley can control, dtilt is like the size of my body but in front of me
Fairs were good you chose defensive options after them so I couldn't punish it but you didn't really get any whiff punishes from my missed attempts
Better than last time, we wanna get to a level where you can quickly identify what tools the opponent is using for what in neutral
So you can up with your own answer
Remember, this is just a game of rps
CTVXY
55
dense quartz
Whats rps?
carmine bramble
Rock paper scissors
dense quartz
Oh that ok then i got it
dense quartz
THrought out the trilliogy i was trying to brute force through which worked less and less and led to me making terrible ledge plays and failing my recovery.
carmine bramble
I would say the main issue at ledge and you just make decisionsn without considering what I'm looking for, you often choose options with the same timing so I don't have to know what you're going to do I just option cover
Like I can nair, drift back and nair again and that covers so much
Same with mashing dtilt at ledge
I think yeah too aggressive not safe at all and you kinda just explode if you do that against Ness
He has very annoying pokes with nair and bair, his fair controls space pretty well, but for whiff punishing
PK Fire
It's a bad time if you're throwing yourself at him with no plan
His neutral seems strong but it does have identifiable weaknesses
All of his pokes and space control are aerials
His is very good at controlling the air
On the ground
He doesn't really have anything
So playing grounded is very good against him
I need you to stop doing dtilt dtilt that is not a dtilt combo
dense quartz
His grabs pk fire and aerials are his only things for nutral so if i counter thoses hes pretty much weak right?
carmine bramble
Dtilt jab dtilt ftilt dtilt grab
Grab is good for tomahawking, PK Fire requires to do something he can whiff punish, and yeah his air game is what makes him so strong
His fair doesn't connenct on Lucas if you don't jump
dense quartz
Got it
carmine bramble
Let me ask it explicitly this time
What are Pit's strong options in neutral
What does he want to do the most
dense quartz
Get me in the air. i put myself in the air
carmine bramble
What does that mean
dense quartz
His ariels are good at comboing and allow him to get nutral easy if they hit
carmine bramble
Depends on how they're used but what is the main move you would say is a threat in neutral
dense quartz
nair
carmine bramble
Yes
Pit nair is really fast and has pretty decent priority
I can get it out before any of Lucas' aerials and it's hard to whiff punish because of how well it autocancels
So it's pretty safe for me to just do
What I'm trying to get you to do is indentify what the strongest options your opponent has and what you need to do to bait it
I think that one went really poorly for you because I did actually see you trying to play more grounded but you didn't really know how to move around
So you just rolled around a lot
You rolled way too much
So that's just free dtilts and arrows
You have to learn how to move without relying on them it's so important
dense quartz
Oh yea i didn't no that arows were energy moves
carmine bramble
But it's good you observed how I was playing and tried to apply the counterplay to it
It's a great step in the right direction
And I believe I told you this, when you focused on improving one specific thing, it makes your other facets worse at first
carmine bramble
Oh yea i didn't no that arows were energy moves
Yeah Lucas can absorb them
It's good knowledge because Pit loves using them to poke at people
He wants to make you worry about them so he can start abusing grabs and burst options like dash attack
But you have counterplay to that
But definitely have the right approach just not the experience to know how to deal with every single situation
Which is natural
Again, keep working on your movement, keep practicing combos, but the big thing is movement, get that movement refined
Movement is the most important part of the game
dense quartz
Alright got it
carmine bramble
Any questions
dense quartz
Nope
carmine bramble
Yeah that's it for me I think you know what to work on going forward
dense quartz
Alright peace out
carmine bramble
Cya
dense quartz
Sorry didnt mean to do that
I'll prolly just work on that for a little a while and when i think i got it down i'll come back and schedual another session if that works for you.
carmine bramble
Sure, if you feel like you need it
dense quartz
@carmine bramble yo as of recent i've been feelin' like i've be platueing in terms of progress. is there somthin' that im missin' that will help me nail my movement issue?
carmine bramble
Growth isn't linear, it's very dynamic and changing
If you have vods I can look at them for you
dense quartz
If you have vods I can look at them for you
VOD?
carmine bramble
Videos of matches you've played
dense quartz
Oh ok
dense quartz
Videos of matches you've played
Also can i ask what were issues that you encoutred when you first started mainning lucas and how did you overcome them (if you did)?
carmine bramble
Well when I started playing Lucas, that was me starting to play Smash; I had no concept of neutral or ANYTHING fundamental. So a lot of concepts like what moves to use were completely lost to me. No concept of combos, no idea how to play disadvantage with Lucas (he struggles a lot here). I just labbed combos, and practiced movement. Also started competing in tournaments pretty early.
I think I started grasping the first important fundamental concept with Lucas (landing with your aerials instead of rising with them) because I spent so much time practicing combos, I learned that uair was good for them. But to get them off of uair, you have to do it as Lucas is landing. It also taught me to learn to short hop (that and djcz) because you NEED short hop with Lucas to use his tools most effectively
Around 2020 I started studying neutral and learning what it was and how it applied to Lucas and I think that was my fastest growth period, that entire year
But yeah for me, labbing and studying neutral concepts and theory
But there is no correct method to learning the game
You have to find what works for you
dense quartz
You have to find what works for you
Acutally about that, I think i made some good changes that might be benfical can i run them buy u rlly quick?
carmine bramble
Sure
dense quartz
So the first i gave up on trying DJCZ for the time since i cant do it consistantly and i don't have enough experince to currently know when to use it
then i going to start practicing using the diffrent types of fair and what their uses are since i currently only really try to go for the disjoint
I've also been trying diffent uses of pk thunder (like launching my self at the stage and buffing another pk thunder) so i can switch up my recovery
I got the consistancy of uair combo to be better now im trying learn the points where i can fast fall each of my airals
i also have be training using b revers on pk freze, pk fire, and mangnet
how is that?
carmine bramble
Wavebounce fire and b reverse magnet are the first tech skill you should with acquire with Lucas yeah. B reverse Freeze isn't too necessary but it's good to know
Good, you don't need djcz rn
Understanding when to use sweet fair and when to use sour fair is really good. Both have a lot of usage.
The more thunder angles you can learn the better
Very good
Yeah all good stuff to work on
dense quartz
Wavebounce fire and b reverse magnet are the first tech skill you should with ac...
The pk thunder tranning i did really helped in the 5 set lucas dittio i played to day, but i have a question how do i make sure that wen i tackle the stage and buffer a pk thunder it doen't just go into the stage leaving me without a recovery?
carmine bramble
Don't buffer it do it on reaction
How far away you bounce is also based on how much speed you had bouncing into the wall
If you hit the wall closer to the start of PK Thunder 2 then you'll bounce further away
But delaying the bonk Thunder 1 helps
You have 32 frames to input it so it's a generous time frame
dense quartz
You have 32 frames to input it so it's a generous time frame
Ok👍