deprecated

[autumn obsidian]

i've been playing terraria so guess where that desire comes from

[glass flume]

What about painting boats?

[autumn obsidian]

also weather vanes would be cools

[glass flume]

or naming boats 😛

[dawn wharf]

I've seriously thought about it, right now it's not planned, because the way rendering is done would make it expensive on one way or another

[glass flume]

fair

[autumn obsidian]

naming boats would be cool

[glass flume]

Minecraft doesn't need more ways of being expensive

[dawn wharf]

it would need either a custom renderer, or a bunch of registered entities (paint colour times wood type), or 16 additional invisible render groups in the model

[autumn obsidian]

also once you've made a solid list can you put it in here? im busy doing other things right now and cant check in all the time

[dawn wharf]

sure

I'll try my best lol

[glass flume]

Some sort of dock block would be nice, something that auto extends a water loggable pole for the supports into the water when you place it

[dawn wharf]

you might have noticed I don't really like adding frivolous blocks (cough canoes cough) so that's unlikely

basically if a block doesn't have enough of a real use, either functionally or aesthetically, I'm not going to make it obtainable

[glass flume]

What about fishing traps?

[dawn wharf]

maybe

I definitely kind of dislike line fishing in tfc rn

well

I really have one main complaint with it

you can't fish off of a dock or do ice fishing, because you end up just reeling the fish underneath what you're standing on

the thing with docks though is that I think I will make docks a feature without adding any new blocks

i.e. there will be cleats on the boat, and you can attach them to fences on the dock

and then your boat will drift into alignment with the fenceposts its tied to

so if you had 2 fenceposts that were north-south oriented, and you attached your boat to them from the bow-aft cleats, if would drift into north-south alignment over a minute or two

so it would be pretty easy to just get on and off your boat with it snuggly against your dock

hopefully that makes sense

it's also something I can add without any new blocks or items, it's just entity logic.

[urban lark]

you gonna use leads or introduce a mooring rope?

[dawn wharf]

leads

I generally appreciate a clean mod implementation that doesnt add anything it doesnt need to

basically, if I can get something to work the way I want it to without actually adding any new blocks or items, I'll pick that implementation over one that adds new blocks or items

[glass sleet]

small ships currently lets you attach leads on ships, and I find it hilarious, cause in creative you can grab a ship and fly it upwards

[dawn wharf]

lol

there'll be a separate control entity in charge of each cleat so that shouldnt be an issue

whichever way I need to do it, attaching a lead to a boat won't be the same as attaching it to another entity, aside from visually

[ionic sonnet]

In 1.20 they added this system called pallets that uses 1 texture file and 1 color file to dynamically create the colored version of the texture

That’s not they did armor trims

[dawn wharf]

oh huh

[ionic sonnet]

But you would have to port it, I know

[dawn wharf]

that might be something to look into then

and yeah I'll port it as soon as there's a stable beta of TFC

[ionic sonnet]

Just thought I should mention it since it would make painting boats actually doable

[dawn wharf]

yeah, for sure

then I would just need to make the textures not suck 🙂

[ionic sonnet]

Yep, and you have more control while still giving the player freedom to customize

[dawn wharf]

okay

so the main thing I got out of this was that I should add kites and weather vanes 😛

[ionic sonnet]

I know there’s already a cart mod but I would love your take on it

Especially if you could move the canoe with it later game?

[autumn obsidian]

wahoo

you also need to add wind though

[dawn wharf]

once I finish boats I might tackle that, since I suspect a lot of the tech I need to build for boats will be applicable 😛

[ionic sonnet]

:)

[vagrant bone]

So a big sailing boat would take two or three players to make it go ?

[dawn wharf]

yes

[vagrant bone]

Thats a brilliant idea. Maybe not for singleplayer !

[dawn wharf]

definitely not for singleplayer

[vagrant bone]

Haha maybe a config option !

[dawn wharf]

maybe

placement of "blocks" in boats (log piles, chests, barrels, workbenches, vessels)
4x1 outrigger canoe (1-person sailing vessel)

• 2 "slots"
• copper age
• difficult to pilot on rivers, but excels at early-game ocean travel
  3x2 rowboat (3-person man-powered)
• 3 "slots"
• iron-age
  6x4 sailboat (1 mast, 2 people required)
• 9 "slots"
• steel-age, very expensive (200+ lumber, 12+ steel ingots, very large amounts of wool)
  10x6 ship (2 masts, 2 people required, 3 for top speed)
• 20+ "slots"
• steel-age, very expensive (700+ lumber, 30+ steel ingots, very very large amounts of wool)
  Wind, based on climate conditions (largely deterministic, can chart trade winds)
  kites (for fun)
  weather vanes (for fun)
  weather particles moving in the direction of wind (maybe)
  paddling animations for kayak and canoe
  sailing implementation (no-go, close-hauled, beam reach, broad reach, running)
  docking implementation (cleat alignment)
  boats free in the water drift in the wind (depending on how much sail was left out)

[versed parcel]

Definitely excited for those future updates!

[dawn wharf]

you might be waiting a while 😛

but I'll be working on it

balancing the larger ships might be a little difficult but hopefully it can be worked out

was planning on making them cost steel as nails, basically

the lumber cost would end up being negligible, I think? because that's only 10 stacks of logs

for the large ship

[ionic sonnet]

Are trying to keep the crafting in world?

[dawn wharf]

yeah

[ionic sonnet]

You are the best

[dawn wharf]

almost 100% multiblock crafting

[ionic sonnet]

GUI’s are the way of the past

[dawn wharf]

I designed a system that should enable me to balance the costs on the fly and make them look reasonably seaworthy even before they get turned into entities

at some point I'm going to have to back all this up with an actual implementation 😛

[ionic sonnet]

sounds exciting

[dawn wharf]

either I make a very impressive mod or everyone who doubts me gets to say "I told you so!" everyone wins 🙂

[burnt mesa]

So how difficult would Planks be? Like a board between two boats out at sea?

[dawn wharf]

not planning on doing that

[burnt mesa]

😅

Had to ask, thinking pirate songs now

[dawn wharf]

it would be easier to just jump in the water and get into another slot on the other boat

[burnt mesa]

Touche, it would definitely just be aesthetic

[dawn wharf]

remember the restrictions of entities, they have square hitboxes

unless I implement something custom, which I'm not planning on doing at the moment

[burnt mesa]

Right, you'd have to have both ships exactly at the right angle and distance for it to work properly

[dawn wharf]

somewhat ironically, I'm way more confident in implementing all the other stuff I've talked about than I am in implementing better hitboes

even though it seems like a small qol thing.

so in all likelihood you'll still be able to fall through your boat if you stand on it wrong 😛

just minecraft stuff.

[ionic sonnet]

I think most people expect a little silliness when it comes to entities

[austere whale]

what boats will be using steel

lol

are they something other than wood boats?

[glass flume]

gunship

[dawn wharf]

steel for fasteners

mostly a balance/tier thing than anything.

trying to make it difficult to source the wood is a little silly when it's already a steel-age tech.

but it still would feel unreasonable to have it use too small of an amount of lumber.

[austere whale]

how big will it be

and im assuming you craft it?

or can you actually build it

[dawn wharf]

idk

I'm not going to repeat everything 😛

[austere whale]

can u make boats walkable

i know someone who can help u with this

https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/swashbucklers

[dawn wharf]

no and no thanks

their "ships" leave a lot to be desired.

[austere whale]

their ships are better than yours

tbh

So i dont see how you can insult them

[dawn wharf]

uh dude you haven't even seen my ships yet

[ionic sonnet]

just as you are allowed to have an opinion so is hyper

🤷

[dawn wharf]

plus I'm way smarter and more attractive

[austere whale]

Your right i havent seen your ships

[glass sleet]

in spite of having no way to confirm this information, I will agree

[austere whale]

but if you cant figure out how to make ships walkable then i dont understand how yours could be better?

yet their ships have walkable surfaces

[dawn wharf]

their ships are also tiny

this is a technical problem

I won't attempt solving it until everything else is implemented

https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/563/775/2022-12-19_22.png

[ionic sonnet]

yeah the scale is very different

they look a bit cartoonish

[dawn wharf]

yeah, the largest of them is pretty much the size of my rowboat

[glass sleet]

I wonder if I can use Pehkui to fix the scale of em

[ionic sonnet]

great models, but the scale is a bit odd imo

[dawn wharf]

also like

please complain about planned features after I've implemented them

otherwise you dont really know what youre complaining about

if you want to go hate on the canoe and kayak thats something i can actually understand

[ionic sonnet]

how could someone hate the kayak? it's the cutest thing ever

[glass sleet]

Hyper, advice. the only help that you'll get from the swashbuckler dev is likely gonna be modelling. I just tested that mod and.. well... You could simply take a vanilla boat, and give it a unique model. and it'll already work better than any of the ships in swashbucklers + I think it might be an mcreator mod.

[burnt mesa]

I still this this "o2" is in fact the original o...

[glass sleet]

The swashbucklers ships rotate based on your camera, so you can turn fast AF

[burnt mesa]

Lmao set mouse sensitivity to woosh then go 360° no-scope some Orca!

[glass sleet]

Yupp

oh, and the ships seemingly can't properly float XD

[dawn wharf]

I saw it in a video once and that was about the impression I got

the models are kind of cute but I honestly think I can do better

[austere whale]

I wish you could do better, although I dont think you can with your skill

I was merely suggesting you take advice from someone who has experience in creating walkable boat surfaces, whom of which i know personally

[glass sleet]

they are less walkable than a vanilla boat...

[austere whale]

they are more walkable than a firmaciv boat...

[ionic sonnet]

if only you could read the previous conversation where hyper address the walking on boats thing

say by scrolling up a little

[austere whale]

he doesnt have the skill to do so

so i find what your saying invalid

[ionic sonnet]

how could you possibly know that

[austere whale]

if only you could read the previous conversation where hyper address the walking on boats thing

[burnt mesa]

Dude. That's just out-right mean..

[austere whale]

I am just being bold.

[glass sleet]

no

[austere whale]

It is just a restatement of what he stated

[glass sleet]

That's straight up mean.

[austere whale]

hyper told me herself

what do you want me to say?

hyper wanted to provoke a reaction out of me

and thats what she got

[ionic sonnet]

remember the restrictions of entities, they have square hitboxes
unless I implement something custom, which I'm not planning on doing at the moment

• hyper

[austere whale]

And if you are that emotionally inept to fail to see that, that is your issue

I see that

[glass sleet]

If you are saying that to me, you are breaking swedish law.

[ionic sonnet]

I don't even know why I bother with you, I'm done acknowledging your existence o2

[austere whale]

I never asked to be acknowledged

That is your fault

Maybe try a different strategy

[versed parcel]

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bitch this morning

[austere whale]

I sleep on my back

[versed parcel]

So you're just always like this then, got it

[dawn wharf]

damn

you guys

it's a dumb minecraft boat mod

[ionic sonnet]

apologies for going off topic, I just couldn't ignore the audacity

[slate quail]

it was kinda really rude to say you're not skilled

[dawn wharf]

it was, yeah

I don't really think I am skilled

but I also think I'm way more skilled than whoever made the swashbucklers mod

[slate quail]

^^

[dawn wharf]

idk, i just dont really like how upset people get in this server all the time

[ionic sonnet]

people forget that there's other people on the other side of the screen🤷

[dawn wharf]

also just

criticising other people's work is fine

except everyone decides to make it sound as mean as possible

I end up just being dismissive of all of it because 80% of amounts to "this thing you made sucks"

especially coming from people who wanna say I'm not skilled enough or whatever

okay, go make your own goddamn boat mod if you wanna be as perfectionist about it as I am

I'm making this so I can have fun with my friends, at the end of the day

[ionic sonnet]

also not bothering to read the conversation before adding your own take is such a shitty move
talking about o2 in case that wasn't obvious

[dawn wharf]

I mean

you get thick skin after enough "go make a sandwich"

but just like, bleh.

sometimes I just dont have many more shits to give when people are being mean 😛

[ionic sonnet]

yeah I'm still learning to do that :P

[austere whale]

that statement is rude

im sorry but how do you know

all you did was assume

[dawn wharf]

see above please

[austere whale]

no

[dawn wharf]

well, then here's the last word

if you want to be perfectionist about it in a different way than me, then the mod is not for you and you should try to find something else

also I'm making that assumption in the same way I make the assumption that the people working on TFC or Create or whatever are way more skilled than I am

[burnt mesa]

Dont worry Hyper, we love you!

[uneven dune]

The cult of Hyper is growing rather quickly

[turbid kelp]

Hyper I love your boat mod, it suits tfc so much!!!

Don't listen to these people who think you code by putting blocks together

[ancient pendant]

I’m really loving the progress on this

[dawn wharf]

minor compatibility change in a few minutes, just disabling Florae and Vanilla boat crafting

going to make canoe crafting datpackable soon but not today

it shouldnt be complicated, I just need to add a tiny amount of code so that the can_make_canoe tag is expandable without breaking everything

[ionic sonnet]

[glass flume]

What will we be able to accomplish with this?

[dawn wharf]

put other mod's blocks in the tag for rough compatibility

they wont have unique wood types but at least you wont be locked out of making them

[glass flume]

Meaning you can make canoes out of any block?

[dawn wharf]

only blocks with axes

[glass flume]

Right

That's pretty neat!

[dawn wharf]

otherwise

itll just crash

but like

pack maker's problem

😏

[ionic sonnet]

lol

[dawn wharf]

later though

i looked at the code for a sec and kinda noped out cause im still not feeling amazing

for now im just disabling florae boats from being crafted

[versed parcel]

You mean I won't be able to carve a canoe out of gold blocks? Dangit.

[dawn wharf]

no but you can carve them out of quartz columns if you want

[versed parcel]

Hmm...acceptable.

[dawn wharf]

it'll produce a random wood type of canoe, lol.

but yeaah that's for next time

the other thing is

if I really want to make it packable with additional wood types

I either build in wood-type compatibility manually across the whole family of boats

or I generate the textures for unkown woodtypes on the fly

🤷‍♀️

although

because canoes replace the function of vanilla boats (mostly)

I might just make canoes and kayaks the most compatible, and leave the rest for pack makers to deal with

[ionic sonnet]

sounds reasonable

[dawn wharf]

havent played the early game in a while 😛 giving pre-metal boats a think haha

[ionic sonnet]

:/

[dawn wharf]

what

[ionic sonnet]

just a log lol

[ionic sonnet]

there's not much you can do with just wood, thatch and clay

[dawn wharf]

yeah

I still think I'll save boats for metal

the early game feels longer than it is

[ionic sonnet]

you don't really need a boat that early

swimming down river is plenty fast

[dawn wharf]

I havent found a river or ocean yet anyway

[ionic sonnet]

what's that little pink thing next to the tomato?

never seen it before

[cunning crest]

bladder. 🙂

you're definitely missing out. 😛

[ionic sonnet]

from your mod?

[cunning crest]

yes

[ionic sonnet]

I love water flasks, but bladders look like this for me

both hyper and I are using vexxed by the looks of it

[dawn wharf]

yeah

her textures, I can't play without them

kind of thing where I wonder why the green people dont just have her do the official ones 😛

[ionic sonnet]

EER does the textures

[ionic sonnet]

I agree, but seeing how much work EER put into the originals and vexxed being kinda EOL I'm temped to switch back

[dawn wharf]

copper 🙂

not enough copper 😦

this'll be the first time I do the early game with vanilla boats and coordinates locked off, actually

curious

[ionic sonnet]

did you mean, without vanilla boats?

[dawn wharf]

yeah

[ionic sonnet]

oh, I see

sorry I misread

[autumn obsidian]

have no fun

[dawn wharf]

😭

canoes arent fun

theyre only hard work and sorrow

[autumn obsidian]

i wish you could make a really slow but floatable boat out of sticks and raw hides

and they have the pre-1.who cares thing of if you go too fast it breaks into it's components

or heck just inflatable hides

the romans or someone used those to cross rivers

[dawn wharf]

ohhh

early game is over 🙂

[ionic sonnet]

nice!

[dawn wharf]

btw

anyone else played the early game with firmaciv yet

like, 0.0.30 and later

[ionic sonnet]

no, but my world is fresh enough I could still add it in

assuming it doesn't break my already 101 mod pack

[dawn wharf]

there would be resource load problems though, you'd still be able to craft boats

[zenith stratus]

i added it to mine a while ago, but by then i was already starting on a bloomery, so not sure if that'd count as early

[dreamy fractal]

yep, I just got to the iron age in my world

no coordinates, no map mods, surface mob spawning enabled

very fun challenge

I like the no coordinates because it forces me to do stuff like travelling along rivers so I can find my way back and that kinda stuff

haven't made navigation tools yet, though

don't have olives so haven't made a kayak yet, canoes are very cool and way more immersive than normal boats

my only complaint is that they're a bit flimsy and that has forced me to camp out the night next to a canoe I'm burning out on a few occasions

I lost a few to waterfalls (that's vanilla boat behaviour though so that's fine) and I accidentally broke one because I tried breaking it out of ice with my pick, instantly breaking it (also vanilla behaviour, not really expecting a fix besides me just learning to be a bit more gentle with them)

[dawn wharf]

you can make it with beeswax or tallow too now

as of 0.0.31

also the main reason for the canoe burnout time is to create a bit of a cost

if you feel like the cost is too high I can experiment with reduxing the time

[turbid kelp]

surface mob spawning enabled? how is that working out for you

[dawn wharf]

also thinking about making the boats that aren't carryable more durable

certainly the larger ones

[turbid kelp]

it would be nice to have "sunken" boats that essentially don't work and are mossy/broken variants of the larger boats if unkept or damaged

[dawn wharf]

maybe

I do want to have upkeep for the larger boats

sails ripping in bad weather, stuff like that

[turbid kelp]

like going though water plants or coliding with rocks damage the hull too

[dawn wharf]

rocks, maybe

also some passive upkeep like removing barnacles to keep your top speed

[turbid kelp]

ooh

[dawn wharf]

but that's not MVP at all

that's like featurset 2 for the larger boats

[turbid kelp]

can't wait for forgotten ports to be overgrown

[dreamy fractal]

ah, I haven't checked the recipe since 0.0.30 then

[dreamy fractal]

it's fun

I've played a lot of TFC so playing with it off kinda lost its edge

I also think a lot of TFC systems just work better when you have to run into mobs more (I.E, I get into the habit of ignoring diet when it's convenient because there's just not a lot of stuff around that'll kill me, with surface mobs it feels way more rewarding to have a good diet)

the only real painpoints I have with it are that the spawning rules make base building a bit too restrictive for my liking, which I'm willing to put up with

and that (mainly because of vanilla) you're still barely incentivized to actually engage with the damage type system (which is a really cool system in my opinion!) because axes are way too good of a weapon, so why ever craft swords or maces

It's given me a lot of ideas atleast, and I've been thinking of a making an add-on that forces surface mob spawning and kinda remedies some of those (say, you would have a block that disables spawning in a certain radius for a certain amount of time if you give it enough ''offerings'', or makes spawning more similar to old TFC), or maybe even adds more mobs that really force you into engaging with the damage types. Maybe in turn rewarding the player with access to vanilla enchanting for example, I dunno

but that will all have to wait until I finish exams and I can plunge into 🤢 learning java 🤢

[dreamy fractal]

also no, canoe burn out time is great as it is. I like that it forces me to be smarter with where I park my boats, if I'm a dumbass and break them or lose them I think it's fair that I have to camp out and make a new one, it's just that vanilla behaviours (such as instantly breaking when you touch them with a tool) caaaaaaan sometimes be a little annoying, but now that I know to play around them it's honestly not even that bad

[dawn wharf]

yeah I think I'll make the non-kayak boats more durable

and the kayak less durable, honestly

or

crouch+use on the kayak could just insta-break it.

crouch+use isn't used on the kayak yet, only on the larger boats. so it would work

thoughts?

so, the canoe and higher would be maybe twice as durable as they are now

maybe also the kayak

the difference is you would be able to insta-grab the kayak if you wanted

[versed parcel]

I think the canoe having more durability since it can't be picked up and moved would be a decent balance (and would be in line with it being a solid chunk of hollowed log)

[dawn wharf]

yeah

how about insta-pickup of the kayak instead of breaking it

[versed parcel]

always a nice bonus feature from other mods I've played with

[dawn wharf]

or

in addition to breaking it

[versed parcel]

in addition, so people don't get confused they can't do their normal methods

[dawn wharf]

yeah

I fully expect a decent percentage of people broke their canoes and were disappointed to find a lumber item the first time

sometimes you just gotta learn by doing

(the book does specify that the kayak is the only one with an item form though)

[turbid kelp]

make it like a filled barrel in terms of movability for the kayak

[dawn wharf]

thought about that

but I think I prefer it as an item

it's closer to what people are used to

I think I will create a 3D model that the player carries over their head though, when in-hand

[turbid kelp]

oh my goodness

that's awesome

[dawn wharf]

next (bigger) update is just visual polish for the current features, so that fits just fine

handheld models for

• kayak
• sextant
• both paddle types

plus animations for paddling, hopefully.

[versed parcel]

wear it on your head like a hat! 😄

[dawn wharf]

kinda!

[versed parcel]

guess it could be a shoulder item

[dawn wharf]

if you don't have wheels for your craft, I'm pretty sure that's how you overland with light watercraft

irl

[glass flume]

I would like to be able to "drag" the canoe onshore

[dawn wharf]

that's planned

[glass flume]

oh good

[dawn wharf]

canoe and rowboat should be towable onto the shore with a lead

anything bigger will not be though

[glass flume]

Yep

[dawn wharf]

debating whether i should let players drag them up blocks though

or just half-slabs, maybe

[glass flume]

Half slabs I can see

Doesn't take much effort to place those down if you want to save a canoe

[dawn wharf]

yeah

was also thinking you could make a slope down to the water from a boathouse if you wanted

pulling them up full blocks slightly negates the advantanges of the kayak, anyway

[ionic sonnet]

👀

[dawn wharf]

(may or may not have a firmaciv server in July)

[glass flume]

Everyone has a firma server now 😛

[ionic sonnet]

this mod will truly thrive in multiplayer :)

[glass flume]

Sure will!

[glass flume]

Should the dugout canoe be raised in the water a little bit so that you don't havewater lily and lotus in the boat with you?

[dawn wharf]

not possible right now, I would have to create a new render type

might do it later

I just prefer the current state to the vanilla approach of just destroying water plants

I already raised the boat a tiny bit so that your click hits the boat before it hits any plants though, that was causing issues. fixed in 0.0.31

I might try to make a new render type that occludes plant rendering, but I don't know how possible that is

I'd have to look at the water occlusion renderer and see how simple it would be to chop that code into doing what I want it to do since I'm not technically versed in render stuff

in the future though, even more of the vanilla boat code is going to be written out, which should give me more flexibility with how the boats ride in the water and appear on land and stuff

[dawn wharf]

setting it up as a reward tier for my patreon since I'm moving away from my previous reward model 😛 previously I was doing bespoke art pieces for my patrons every month and it was really overwhelming

I figure a server with my mod in it makes more sense than just access to a vanilla server anyway, since it's for people supporting my work

but yeah, as an extension, it'll be a good test environment for me

since a lot of the future features require multiplayer anyway

[glass flume]

Yep

Completely understand it. I have my own set of servers so I can play how I want with what I want 😛

[dawn wharf]

gonna try and plan at least 2 full days a month to work on this among my (more profitable) projects 😛 so hopefully that at least means the polish update in July

and-- with school gone, there shouldn't be the kind of gap there was between updates earlier this year

[glass flume]

Nice!

[dawn wharf]

rational hyper: finish the roadmap before imagining new features!
hyper who just enjoys imagining fun features: air travel

I like the idea of a biplane because it requires infrastructure, but lighter-than-air is easier to make sense of, even with steam power

there werent steam engines efficient enough for the air until the 1930s

[burnt mesa]

Hot air balloons would be awesome! I use tf out of Simple Planes and IE's blimbs

[versed parcel]

Breezy has really well done balloons, but I didn't care at all for the "float up and leave yourself at the whims of the currents" method of travel

[glass flume]

Breezy works the way real hot air balloons work. At different altitudes, wind speed and direction are different and the hot air balloon pilot uses that to steer it.

[versed parcel]

Well yeah but the air current directions available were also random, so you could end up just not being able to go the direction you wanted if the air wasn't cooperating.

[glass flume]

Yes that is irl too. That is why before a hot air balloon flight, they secure quite a few landing sites in multiple directions.

They also get surface winds at different altitudes before the flight from like airports and weather sites

[versed parcel]

Right, I get that's the way life works. My point is it's not fun from a game perspective.

being dragged along to 'wherever' makes for a very terrible navigation mechanic

[dawn wharf]

for some reason I like the idea of biplanes better but then again, making an engine for one... difficult

especially since I won't be doing anything with electricity or forge energy or liquid fuels

gotta be steam

[turbid kelp]

you can use wind and solely wind

make it difficult to fly long distances and have certain terrain such as high trees unaccessible

[dawn wharf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6NFmcnW-8

[zenith stratus]

do note that that steam plane also used liquid fuel, iirc

[turbid kelp]

oh never mind that's awesome

[zenith stratus]

it might, however, be viable to have a glider that you fit with one or two solid rockets, to get it airborne, and glide away in

[turbid kelp]

what's stopping you from making a water plane

[autumn obsidian]

a water plane

[zenith stratus]

use a H2 - O2 rotating detonation aerospike rocket
best efficiency (for a rocket) at any altitude, and all of the exhaust is water

[urban lark]

the besler plane was a conversion though. ballons would be awesome, especially with the tradewinds

[dawn wharf]

yeah

it was a conversion and it used a completely different type of steam engine from like, early locomotives or whatever

but this is a video game, so I wonder how much of a stretch it would be to make it the latest-game level of transportation. the fastest, but only two slots, and the most dangerous. plus you'd need enough flat land to take off and land from so it would be harder to explore with it

could also be high-infrastructure, like:

hard materials give lower rolling friction

so you wouldnt be able to take off from dirt or grass, which means anywhere you'd want to fly to would require a purpose-built runway

[urban lark]

i mean, if you're going towards making actual planes, i would really love you first going the route of wagons :')

[dawn wharf]

yeah I'm just spitballing

[urban lark]

and the besler plane is a very very fine choice for a plane

though there's some early french ones that might be a 'more logical' fit

[dawn wharf]

once the boat tech / implementation is done I'll make a new roadmap for the next features

[dawn wharf]

do you have a wikipedia link or something?

[urban lark]

uh lemme check

most of that stuff is in my mindcave

[dawn wharf]

planes are more interesting than lighter-than-air for gameplay, imo

[urban lark]

there's this thing for sue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_aviation_–_19th_century

[dawn wharf]

planes require more infrastructure, anyway

and forcing the player to make infrastructure is kind of interesting to me

[urban lark]

i mean, besler was pretty much the 'viable' one of the bunch. when i talk abt early french stuff I mean either the LTA + steam-engine stuff, and on the other hand stuff like these two:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ader_Éole

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_Temple_Monoplane

You will have to take some creative license with most early steamplanes (steamplanes in general anyway)

[versed parcel]

I will say there is a pretty decent mod already for aircraft that are pretty thematic to TFC. With a biplane that requires ground to take off and land, a gyrodyne that's slower and food pedal powered, and an airship that's a moderate all-rounder https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/immersive-aircraft

[dawn wharf]

oh that's pretty cute!

[dawn wharf]

ooh, super interesting

just looking for something that's "close enough" I guess 😛

[ancient pendant]

IF create aeronautics releases, it’d pair well with your mod

Especially with some designs REQUIRING an airship tower to “land”

[dawn wharf]

maybe, it would require a ton of compat work

especially with balance

Ive been designing this with tfc balance in mind from the start, which, aside from technical and aesthetic reasons, is why I don't want to add multiblock vehicles

balancing multiblock vehicles would be pretty impossible

but also

create and create aeronautics are... insane

no idea how any of it works 😛

giving irl boat people aneurysms

[autumn obsidian]

if the rowboat isn't some form of "row row row your boat" im gonna be the one having an aneurysm

[dawn wharf]

the rowboat one will be "Oaring my Paddleboat"

./s

[autumn obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

[autumn obsidian]

"row row row your boat"
row a rowboat at max speed
"...underneath the stream"
sink your rowboat under the water somehow

second one comes from a variation that my grandpa used to sing

[dawn wharf]

okay

not gonna spoil the rest of them, but you can find them in the git if you really want to lol

[turbid kelp]

ooh

[dawn wharf]

polish update incoming

..sometime this month

[turbid kelp]

I love it

[dawn wharf]

worked on 3D item render too

outside of inventory, of course

not done yet

one of my rendering mixins is broken but I'm out of patience for today 😛 maybe tomorrow

[icy torrent]

how to craft a thatch roofing?

[dawn wharf]

they're not craftable yet

there's a feature they're still missing

[ancient pendant]

With your liking of making infastructure, would hand-pushable Minecarts be outside the scope of your mod?

I've always wanted to be able to grab the edge of a minecart and push items out of a mine using it

[glass flume]

I think that is better than them just "auto working" to me 😛

[ancient pendant]

Exactly

[dawn wharf]

maybe, that's an interesting idea!

[ancient pendant]

OH, glad ya think so!

It's honestly something i've always wanted in MC in general

Never liked pushing minecarts around by bumping them

Infrastructure building and maintnence have always been some of my FAV things in MC, it's why I love TFC and Immersive Weathering so much

[dawn wharf]

are ore veins really large enough to use minecarts in tfc?

[ancient pendant]

They can be

ESPECIALLY if you find a chain of them

[tulip cargo]

Question/suggestion; can this gamerule be toggled on a per player basis, and if so, then check for the gamemode of the player, so players in e.g. creative can see the debug info, whilst those in survival can not?

[dawn wharf]

it cant be

but I might rework how that's handled in the future

I might use something other than the gamerule

in that case I would be able to toggle it only for survival players

[tulip cargo]

Sounds lovely. It's not a pressing issue, but more of a QoL improvement for when testing/playing around in creative.

[dawn wharf]

yeah

[versed parcel]

A couple minor suggestions:

• Make the Kayak very heavy/huge so only one can be carried
• Give the paddles #tfc:usable_on_tool_rack tag so we can hang up our pladdles when not in use

[dawn wharf]

both already planned 😉

next alpha with the rest of the polishing stuff

although, I might not make the kayak heavy/huge because it sucks up hunger, and you're supposed to be able to carry it long distances

but I do need to add item weights, I thought I had but they're nonfunctional

[versed parcel]

Fair enough. I never even considered/noticed the hunger usage when carrying heavier things

[icy torrent]

Still waiting

My own world will progress to the copper age

[vapid leaf]

Suggestions:
Ferries for getting animals across rivers. Allows moving more than one across at a time but it is a fixed location. Want to cross somewhere else you have to build a new one.
Barges for transporting goods up or down rivers. Travel between fixed points until you have the tech for propulsion (steam?).

[dawn wharf]

the next boat has two additional slots (three total) so you can bring a breeding pair home all at once

barges, not sure. been thinking about them

[dawn wharf]

waiting for what

[autumn obsidian]

next alpha probs

i cant wait for it either but eh

[dawn wharf]

this is a hobby project it'll be ready when its ready

the current alpha is totally playable and already completely overhauls boats

[twin geyser]

I'm trying to saw the stripped wood to make and canoe, and it's not doing anything? Is there anything I'm missing? edit: I know what it is, never mind!

[dawn wharf]

some woods aren't soft enough to carve! check the field guide

[dawn wharf]

I wonder if I can animate the water texture based on the wind direction

the one problem being it would have to change globally based on the windspeed at the position of the client player

which I don't think would be a huge problem, aesthetically

[autumn obsidian]

ngl i'd be fine with lil water particles on the surface

[dawn wharf]

oh, thats an interesting idea

[autumn obsidian]

also particles can be toned down in the settings

[dawn wharf]

yeah

that would be technically easier than animating the water differently

but probably more performance impact?

I need to experiment with this now

[autumn obsidian]

muhuhaha

[dawn wharf]

whaaaat

wind isnt even implemented yet so

it would just be visual experimentation

if I can animate the water texture, I think I will

it would make large bodies of water look a lot more alive

[vagrant bone]

Well waves also show wind direction irl buttt animating waves sounds like turning the computer into a bonfire ….

[dawn wharf]

no, it would be simpler than you think

[autumn obsidian]

time to add tides

[vagrant bone]

tfc 1.50

[dawn wharf]

there probably wont be tides but things in the water will be affected by the wind, so that's pretty similar in effect I guess

[vagrant bone]

Waves or any animations in the water would be amazing … just for ambience sake alone ..oceans always too flat !

[dawn wharf]

yeah, it would still be flat

but the water would actually appear to move a little

I've considered adding waves but the only ways I can think of to do it in a reasonable way are pretty janky

[autumn obsidian]

ok hear me out
big ol entity that spawns out on oceans that looks like a giant wave
if it hits the player than it sends the boat shooting up into the air and might sink it

[dawn wharf]

yeah, thats the main way I was thinking to do it

the problem is whether it would actually look right

especially once you start considering shaders and stuff

[dawn wharf]

I was on the fence about it, but I'm going to make the compass point North

I keep checking my direction based on the sun in gameplay and I would totally use a compass for that instead

[autumn obsidian]

the compass being useful?

imagine

hey can you make it so that if you get to the nearest north pole with a compass you get an achievement?

and make the compass spaz out

i hear that's a thing that actually happens irl but im not 100% sure

[dawn wharf]

no, it would point to game north

not a polar region

[autumn obsidian]

dang

[dawn wharf]

there would be way less utility in it pointing to a polar region unfortunately

I have considered making the TFC world finite and looping though, but that would be a fair amount of work and it would break rivers at the world border if I was lazy about it

[autumn obsidian]

i cant stick my kayak onto a tool rack? 0/10 mod

can't abuse the laws of physics

[dawn wharf]

no 😛

getting... kinda close to the next alpha

so far

[autumn obsidian]

kinda close != close

unfortunately

[dawn wharf]

• item weights
• advancements
• tool rack stuff
• server config

still need

• player poses fitting in boats

the rendering stuff is a nightmare 😛

I tried to change the in-hand models for the paddles with a mixin and couldnt get it to work so I've given up on that for the time being

I figure I'll save that and the paddling animations for a minor update after the next alpha

possibly the player poses too, we'll see

the config right now includes the ability to change canoe construction so it can take any TFC wood

and the ability to stop forcing reduceDebugInfo

so you can config it off for your test worlds, or if you just hate my nav features

[vapid leaf]

I mean, the kayak shouldn't go on a tool rack. There needs to be a boat rack. lol

[dawn wharf]

plus, canoe wood types will be datapackable soon

probably not next alpha though

just got the start of it in

config for making canoes out of any wood type is in

also set up the config for not enforcing reducedDebugInfo

[versed parcel]

Yay wood

[dawn wharf]

ash canoe

technically wou would have already been able to summon one but now you can config to make one

if you hate me

I really need to be one of those people who does quantity over quality

everything would be done by now

[glass flume]

WRONG

I'd rather quality and it take forever 😛

[dawn wharf]

mostly joking 😛

I really want to add clay tablets in this alpha so I might just go ahead and do that

I keep wanting to record stuff like my alloying math and my location without having to find paper or use an external method

[glass flume]

What are the tablets for?

[dawn wharf]

like a book but with one page

[glass flume]

ooooo

Yeah ok

[autumn obsidian]

cant wait to become ea nasir irl B)

[dawn wharf]

I dont think you need a minecraft mod to do it irl 😛

[uneven dune]

Supplier of low quality copper is an important job

[dawn wharf]

changing the player pose might be sucky and difficult

but like

it needs to be changed

having your feet poke out is ridiculous

there's a library mod that would make it easier but I'd prefer not to add more dependencies, and the mod isn't being worked on anymore it looks like

[dawn wharf]

nope, I take that back

although it's easier for the kayak since all I need to do is not render the legs

[autumn obsidian]

i love cutting off my legs

[dawn wharf]

yes

[dawn wharf]

y e s

[versed parcel]

Perfection

now he can just paddle with his feet

[vapid leaf]

ROFL

[vapid leaf]

Steve is so flexable

[dawn wharf]

btw if you're wondering why there's a chicken in the boat its to get the offset lol

here it is without a chicken in the boat

[vapid leaf]

To make sure the legs don't poke out the front when there is a passenger?

[dawn wharf]

yeah

[vapid leaf]

Looks good

[dawn wharf]

right now it changes the riding pose globally but we'll see if I can fix that

not a huge problem though

[vapid leaf]

Hmm.. For boats it seems fine. For minecarts it would be fine. For riding animals though...

[dawn wharf]

oh

should be an easy fix

all set 🙂

[vapid leaf]

😄

[autumn obsidian]

i sure do love sitting in uncomfortable situations for long periods of time

[dawn wharf]

okay

0.0.40 incoming, I think

• item weights
• advancements
• tool rack stuff
• server config
• player poses fitting in boats

[autumn obsidian]

cant wait for the wind system in a week B)

[dawn wharf]

maybe coming in a later 0.0.40* patch hopefully maybe:

• different in-hand item models for paddles, kayak, etc
• paddling animations

oh

I also fixed a bug where the canoe could cast a non-player to a player object when it was checking for a paddle which caused a crash

[autumn obsidian]

what causes it so i can avoid crash

[dawn wharf]

paddling a canoe with a non-player in the passenger slot

afaict

so

[autumn obsidian]

oh neat

[dawn wharf]

update your mod

[dawn wharf]

0.0.40 submitted!

• item weights
• advancements! (look out for easter eggs)
• all tool-like items can now be put on tool racks (nav tools, paddles)
• server config!
  • change the wood types you can make canoes out of
  • decide whether to disable f3 coordinates
• player poses fit inside of the boats (finally!!)
• fixed a bug causing a crash when riding a canoe with a non-player entity

so happy to have the legs fit, that was bothering me soooo much

[versed parcel]

Huzzah!

[glass flume]

Yes!

[dawn wharf]

oh fuck

uhhh

it doesn't work with armor 😅

hotfix incoming!

actually

I have no idea how to fix this atm

[autumn obsidian]

cold fix

[dawn wharf]

might not be a hotfix

in the meantime

NO PANTS OR BOOTS ALLOWED

[versed parcel]

No pants boat ride, sounds like a fun evening

[dawn wharf]

oh

might have figured out the fix

I was overthinking it

Im so smart

[ionic sonnet]

[vapid leaf]

hmmm... Something seems wrong...

[ionic sonnet]

not sure what though

[versed parcel]

Seems fine to me

[glass flume]

Pogo Steve

[zenith stratus]

Steve's packing

[dawn wharf]

HOTFIX INCOMING

I'm wearing armor right now in this screenshot

:D

[autumn obsidian]

false

wear tfc armor head to toe

[dawn wharf]

you know

that's

a problem!

[autumn obsidian]

steve packin

[dawn wharf]

- fixed a bug where the player's legs don't render in the inventory

tuning this is taking absolutely forever

causes I cant reload mixins during runtime

trying to get the model to fit armored legs without it looking too ridiculous in the inventory

[last fulcrum]

If you're not adjusting the mixin target, you can bounce it to a method outside the mixin, then hotswap that instead

[dawn wharf]

oh huh

[dawn wharf]

man humor

[autumn obsidian]

real

unfortunately

[dawn wharf]

most frustrating thing since canoe wood types

[autumn obsidian]

at least you got it done, right?

[dawn wharf]

no

why did I release this haha

I need to pull this release

it has too many bugs

[autumn obsidian]

jank

[dawn wharf]

okay, I think it's all fixed

she says

and then continues fixing things

:))))))

[dawn wharf]

this looks a little goofy but it's a lot less strange than having the legs disappear

something I could do is just render the kayak as part of the player when the player is riding it, that would solve that issue entirely. but it would be a bit weird 😛

okay

0.0.41 submitted to cf

• fixed player legs not rendering in inventory while riding kayak
• fixed armor poking out of boats

I can finally just go watch TV

[dawn wharf]

there will probably be no more updates except for bugfixes for a little while

getting into crunch time for a "real" project

but I'm hoping when I come back to it that 0.0.50+ will be big 🙂

nothing left to do except the exciting features

[dawn wharf]

tentative roadmap for 0.0.50

• boat customization (placing "blocks" like chests in boats)
• leads attached to boats (cleats, dock alignment)
• rowboat incl. multiblock construction
• 3D in-hand models for some items
• anvil recipes for navigation tool parts
• refactor wood type code to be universal

so that'll be a total rework of the boat code

but the more I do the less daunting the new features seem 😛

[glass flume]

What about making decorative logs like you have with the canoe. You could place a log down then ax it to give it a true "log" look and make a log cabin out of it

[versed parcel]

Any chance of updating the entity name in the Jade tooltip?

[dawn wharf]

oh, I have the translate keys in but I changed the entity name so they're not applied anymore...

will fix in the next update

[dawn wharf]

can you add it to github so I dont forget

also... is that a boat with an outboard motor??

[versed parcel]

Yeah it's from Immersive Petroleum, it can be upgraded with an icebreaker, extended gas tank, etc

[dawn wharf]

cuute

[versed parcel]

Will do, and just as a suggestion, you could add the git issues link to the curseforge page for issues. I can find it by going to the curseforge>source link but hitting issues would be easier

[dawn wharf]

ok

switching to gitlab at some point probably

not into the shit microsoft is up to rn

[versed parcel]

oh, I'm not aware of what's going on there

[dawn wharf]

they're spending billions on LLM research and stealing people's work 😛

[versed parcel]

oh snap...

[glass flume]

Yeah all the big "successful corps" do it

[versed parcel]

true, dealing with some of that in contract negotiations at my company when trying to implement new software, they keep trying to write in LLM clauses into the contract to take all our data...nevermind it's all hipaa and gdpr protected data

[glass flume]

Amazon does it all the time, that is where Amazon Basics comes from. They even steal music. One guy put watermarks in his songs and amazon used his songs INCLUDING the watermarks

[dawn wharf]

0.0.42

• Attempted to fix a crash on dedicated servers related to the PlayerRenderEvents class, which no longer exists

https://legacy.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/firma-civilization/files/4641099

[brazen imp]

I have questions
@dawn wharf (sorry for the ping) what kind of wind implementation are you planning? static, or varying over time? same for the entire map, or local wind currents?

[dawn wharf]

local, based (mostly) deterministically on TFC weather

[brazen imp]

I had plans to do integrate with that, with someone that had similar ideas and lost interest after a week

[dawn wharf]

what were your ideas?

[brazen imp]

map it out... but that only works with static currents 😐

[dawn wharf]

you should be able to map out the wind, it would just depend on the season

[brazen imp]

hmmmm

that could be doable

BlazeMap is not ready to handle map data in that way though, it probably requires a few whacks in the engine

[dawn wharf]

firmaciv isn't really designed to be used with map mods, although it's definitely possible

but yeah it would be difficult to show wind patterns with blazemap I would bet

[brazen imp]

I could tell that FirmaCiv is a bit averse to maps, however, with Cartography I try to be super TFC friendly and not break the gameplay, so a balance can be struck.

(blazemap is just the map mod / engine, cartography does everything TFC)

variation over time can probably be done if it's not too frequent... seasonal looks ok

as for immersion, if this were to move forward, I have a few ideas on how to make FirmaCiv server config stop cartography from mapping winds

at least that way server admins could have the last say

[autumn obsidian]

i use antique atlas as my map mod

[dawn wharf]

at the end of the day I feel like it would be difficult to just straight up stop people from putting a map mod on their client

[autumn obsidian]

doesn't show coords from what i've seen

[dawn wharf]

yeah, there will be native mapping functionality at some point

I've pretty much finished planning the feature so it's just implementation

a drawing board where you can input coordinates for precise placement of points and then draw over them to map out the shapes of continents and river and stuff--

so you would be able to make seasonal wind maps that way, manually

[autumn obsidian]

mmmm

mapping

[brazen imp]

mapping is hard... trust me

[autumn obsidian]

idea: change the spyglass recipe to be slightly more balanced
also make the sextant use the above spyglass

[dawn wharf]

dunno

how is it unbalanced?

[autumn obsidian]

it's just two copper ingots and a glass pane

[dawn wharf]

4 ingots worth

its two sheets I believe

[autumn obsidian]

oh yeah it is

mb

[dawn wharf]

still, the utility of the spyglass is pretty limited

I wouldnt call that unbalanced

its more of a toy than anything

[dawn wharf]

have thought about adding a toolbelt/satchel thing for all the small tools. so you could carry around the nav tools, a map, a telescope, a compass with only one inventory slot

maybe a "surveyor's belt" or something

next update when I start adding the crazy boat stuff that's going to take a million years I'll do some of the qol stuff

clay tablet, surveyors belt

in mid august though

[vapid leaf]

I looked in the creative menu and saw thatch roofing.

[dawn wharf]

yeah

[dawn wharf]

missing a feature

[vapid leaf]

Has me excited. I like the look of thatch as a roof but full blocks look so big at the scale I build.

[dawn wharf]

should be in the next update!

[vapid leaf]

😄

[autumn obsidian]

what was the problem? something about the blocks not connecting to full blocks properly?

[dawn wharf]

the feature theyre missing is gap-closing

i.e.

[autumn obsidian]

what if i purposefully want some gaps?

i.e smoke hole for ventilation

[dawn wharf]

you could make a roof out of it and there would be a quarter-block gap on top of the framing

I'm going to make it so that they end up with a full stair shape if you place them on top of a block

so you can choose what you want

like

if you place them on the top face of a block

not if there's a block under them

[autumn obsidian]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

might want to put that down somewhere, someone like me could get very confused about why their stairs only work half of the time

[dawn wharf]

yeah, I will

[brazen imp]

why not just put that behavior on a new block instead?

[vapid leaf]

I mean, the block is "thatch roofing" not "thatch stairs" so...

[brazen imp]

so that players can tell that each behaves one way instead of having to fight the mod constantly

[dawn wharf]

try walking up "thatch stairs" and lmk how successful you are 😛

[vapid leaf]

It will just take the stair shape if placed on the top face of a block (which I assume include top slabs and not bottom slabs). Only think I might want is thatch slabs for the peak of odd width roofs.

[dawn wharf]

I might do slabs too

[quasi peak]

hey Hyper, it's been a while! I am planning to learn how to make a mod for Minecraft 1.18.2
well both default and TFC. and other biomes that add biomes.

Since you've gain so much experiences on how to develop a mod from the beginning. is there a good place I can start with?

your mod is slowly becoming fantastic and making progress! ^_^

[dawn wharf]

I still recommend the kaupenjoe tutorial series

it's pretty comprehensive!

I watched it through a few times and then referenced it every once in a while at first

[quasi peak]

👍 alright, i'll write it in my note. you should have a note-taking app. it's very useful to take notes.

i often use my note-taking app to check for how i did or what was the code. so on and on.

[dawn wharf]

mhm

[dawn wharf]

thanks for 4k

[turbid kelp]

wooooo

[autumn obsidian]

minor bug
when you go super high the barometer resets to normal for some reason but it doesnt when i go down to bedrock
(also it would be funny if there was a special texture for the barometer if you get below bedrock)

[dawn wharf]

yeah, that's a known bug

[dawn wharf]

how high was it and did you have to fly to get there

[autumn obsidian]

yeah

it was like 300+ blocks

[dawn wharf]

yeah then irdc honestly

[cunning crest]

irdc?

i really don't care? lol

[dawn wharf]

fine

ytakb
hhwiadyhtftgt
ytidrch

much better

[autumn obsidian]

i think my brain just melted

i know what you did but my brain still hurts

[dawn wharf]

ykidrtsfp 😛

[autumn obsidian]

i give up im going to bed

[dawn wharf]

good

[stiff zinc]

My minecraft is crashing when I'm trying to ride the mod's boat with a cow in it
https://pastebin.com/9JHCZBrv

[dawn wharf]

this was fixed a few weeks ago, please update the mod to current

[dawn wharf]

when I come back to this I may just go straight to 1.20.

I'd like it to be available for 1.20 as soon as TFC is 🙂

[versed parcel]

I hope you keep feature parody for 1.18 though. 1.20 won't be ready for broader modpacks for easily 6 months to a year

[last fulcrum]

eh

[dawn wharf]

🤷‍♀️

1.18 will have inflatable toy boats

1.20 will have the real thing

feature parody 😎

[autumn obsidian]

finally, the features we've all been waiting for

[versed parcel]

damn my spelling failure 😄

[vapid leaf]

lol

[dawn wharf]

@last fulcrum do you know what happens to my posts if I leave the server (temporarily)

[last fulcrum]

I have no idea

[dawn wharf]

hm, okay. I just keep obsessively checking it lol

and I really need to not.

[last fulcrum]

relatable

[dawn wharf]

I guess we'll find out

I'll be back eventually 🤷‍♀️

I just hve deadlines coming up and I'm trying to reduce distractions

[last fulcrum]

I look forward to your glorious return

[dawn wharf]

👍

[cunning crest]

I just mute the server if I need a break. 😉

[dawn wharf]

👍

[glass flume]

When are we adding barrel submarines?

[icy torrent]

are u fine?

I hope one day you could add working ferry in this mod

[dawn wharf]

I feel like a tfc ferry is when you have a boat and then people ride the boat on a set route for a fee

so strictly speaking you could already set that up if you wanted

[quasi peak]

or ship (like ships from Caribbean of the pirates). You could pay the ship to take you to faraway land. Ferry is for short trip while ship is for long trip. just a thought.

[vapid leaf]

A Minecraft boat/dugout takes one passenger. My image of a ferry is something that can take like 4-8 cows or 2-4 horses across/down/up the river.

[stiff oxide]

Sounds more like an animal barge

[vapid leaf]

Barges would move things from any dock to any dock. Ferries go between two fixed points.

[icy torrent]

I forgot about barges

[dawn wharf]

yeah there'll be bigger boats when i get around to it

no automation/ferries though

[steady talon]

This is probably a bit late to the party, but for really low tech boats this isn't a bad resource.
https://www.sea.museum/2016/12/15/australias-first-watercraft

[steady talon]

I think of ferries in terms of the old barges pulled back and forward along a rope or chain across a river, possibly also with men using poles to assist

[vapid leaf]

Yeah, that is what I was thinking of too. Nothing automated. Before we took to building bridges over everything they would be used to transport livestock and wagons over rivers that were too deep or had too strong of a current to ford.

[steady talon]

Bigger ships as a multiblock built at a ship/slipyard that transformed/launched upon "christening" (champagne bottle more recently, or blood from a sacrifice in older times) would be pretty cool. A series of phases could stagger the process if you wanted to up the theatrics. Skeleton laid out, work with a tool, planks near position, work them on, sealing/corking supplies in place, ... etc. I guess the canoe already does it, so it'd just be more block types added over a bigger area, possibly scanning some adjacent space for parts when framework is in the way of required resources.
Sorry if verbose. wake up medication just kicked in.

[dawn wharf]

not gonna be that in-depth but it'll be multiblock

[steady talon]

Also, log was throwing some errors associated with recipe removals from other mods I wasn't using. Neatest way to remove a recipe is to replace it with:
{
"conditions": [
{
"type": "forge:false"
}
]
}

[steady talon]

afc cypress and baobab had type mismatch as well (cybress and boabab). I can send you updated recipe files if you want.

[dawn wharf]

ah ok, I can do that instead

[dawn wharf]

if you're up for it I wouldnt mind

[steady talon]

Doesn't apply to vanilla minecraft recipes, but this should cover the others.

[dawn wharf]

thanks for 8k ❤️

[plush horizon]

When you think about it, oars are just water shovels

[dawn wharf]

exactly

[restive sierra]

Can You Surface A Sunk Canoe?

[dawn wharf]

no, same as a vanilla boat

[restive sierra]

So It's Fucked Forever

[dawn wharf]

Yes It's Super Fucked Dude

Sorry That Happened

[balmy viper]

What happens when a canoe is sunk?

[restive sierra]

It Sinks

[plush horizon]

Impossible

[dawn wharf]

i should work on this again soon lol

[autumn obsidian]

indeed you should

[fallow spear]

@dawn wharf Hello! I have a bug that only appears when I install FirmaCiv! The legs have changed places and move the same way as the arms - left with left, right with right. And now when I lie down on the ground with GoProne or play animations with the BetterCombat mod, my legs are positioned incorrectly. I hope this is a bug and not specially made so that you can sit in the kayak without spreading your legs)
The second layer is not connected to the legs and moves as usual

https://staging.streamable.com/cweg6q

[autumn obsidian]

oh that's a firmaciv bug
that makes sense

[dawn wharf]

I can't easily fix that

does it impact the gameplay at all, or is it just visual

[fallow spear]

Only visual

[dawn wharf]

oh wait, I may be able to fix some of this

yeah

[ancient pendant]

Idea for the Thatch Roofing: What if it used frames, in the way wattle and daub do?

[dawn wharf]

thought about this

I was actually thinking about just making a universal roof system where you make roof frames and then fill them with whichever material you want

wood or thatch or what have you

[vapid leaf]

Something akin to FramedBlocks?

[ancient pendant]

Would that mean there could be a roofing tile making system?

[dawn wharf]

I have no idea when I'm going to get back into this

I just know that I'm going to and the next update is gonna be kinda big 🤷‍♀️ lol

I'll probably get a weekend of work in on it before the new year at least

[glass flume]

@dawn wharf Did you add canoes being able to be tethered?

[dawn wharf]

not yet 😭

[glass flume]

UGH fine. /s

[glass flume]

Hey Hyper, any thoughts on a "depth meter" of sorts so you can find Y level?

[dawn wharf]

just make sure you're playing 0.0.20 and up

(and also read the field guide, which I'm not very good at myself so that might be a tall order 😛 )

gotta integrate glassworking now, though

and anvil recipes... that's overdue

anyway @glass flume hope that points you in the right direction

[glass flume]

oooooooooooo

Thanks a ton!

I must have missed it

[dawn wharf]

1.20

[dawn wharf]

modrinth release will be available soon

https://modrinth.com/mod/firmacivilization/

(I'll be using all distributors that TFC does, so as long as TFC uses curseforge, firmaciv will also be available there)

[dawn wharf]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[autumn obsidian]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/781443106838675458/1058088596701204500/Fa1amhbUIAArlfY.gif

[dawn wharf]

just putting stuff in game that I already had on paper lol

[dawn wharf]

a reminder for myself:

• rendering of paddles fixed
• pulling boats with leads?
• thatch roofing finalized
• clay tablets?
• fix bug that switches legs around?

[autumn obsidian]

yay clay tablets

[dawn wharf]

btw, the leg bug was a very easy fix, a 1.18 version with that fix is going up immediately

https://legacy.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/firma-civilization/files/4858358

I would be able to put out a 1.20 build tonight

if I could figure out how to fix the canoes not working

with the fire

[dawn wharf]

reminder to self: AFC compatibility by default

[dawn wharf]

https://legacy.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/firma-civilization/files/4863087

1.20 is here 🙂

[burnt mesa]

So, is it a bug or a feature: why did I just spend all that time making a canoe, just for the thing to break into a single plank of wood?

[dawn wharf]

you did not read the changelog or understand the reason I didn't release a build until today

that's pretty much it

(it's a bug)

you need to be on TFC 3.0.2+ or you can't make canoes

[burnt mesa]

I did read the log... I have 3.0.2...

[dawn wharf]

are you 100% sure? I tested the build outside of dev

I didn't have any issues with it

[burnt mesa]

100%

It also left a single smoldering block behind when I broke it.

[dawn wharf]

youre going to have to help me recreate the bug, probably

this is what I see with the release build

[burnt mesa]

I mean, all I did was put 4 spruce logs down, stripped them, cut them, then lit it on fire. After the smoldering ended I broke the canoe and it didn't drop the item, it just gave me a couple pieces of lumber. I also noticed that there is no item in the cretive inventory for Canoes.

[dawn wharf]

there's no item for it, that's not a bug

so

[burnt mesa]

So...

You can't get canoes?

[dawn wharf]

this is what happens if I try with 4 blocks

can you at least send a video?

[burnt mesa]

I'm still confused on how to attain a canoe... If it doesn't have an item, do I need Carry On to move the boat?

[dawn wharf]

you do not move the boat

[burnt mesa]

Uhhh....

[dawn wharf]

you read the field guide

instead of moving the boat

[burnt mesa]

There is no entry in the field guide.

[dawn wharf]

oh, you know what

that's a goddamn bug

🙂

but let's get to the bottom of what you're talking about

can you send a video

oh

[burnt mesa]

I'm talking about hitting the boat until it breaks into an item, which there clearly isn't one. A video wouldn't really do anything to help you if you designed the boats to not be able to be broken.

Seeing as there isn't a guide yet in-game, can you just tell me how to get my canoe into the water...?

[dawn wharf]

no, what you're experiencing isnt a bug

[burnt mesa]

Clearly...

[dawn wharf]

when you break the canoe it should drop lumber

[burnt mesa]

Thank you for the straight forward answer! So how do I move the boat into the water?

[dawn wharf]

sorry, because what you said sounded super similar to the other bug I was pretty confused

but yeah, right now the only way to get it into the water is to build it on the shoreline

[burnt mesa]

Hmmm

[dawn wharf]

I should be able to fix the field guide entry tonight

sorry for being stupid lol

[burnt mesa]

Eh, it was just an overlook.