#In-game Economy - Ways to improve it

1870 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

unkempt vector
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ok so from my perspective u re telling me, I ll get a cosmetic for the 13b x 5 =65b ed I spent for my 5 +11 as f2p. then I have to spend extra time for things I never liked to do or load up now because of a subscription (I ve played this game for years as full f2p)

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and u re expecting all the other players who already loaded up approximately 750 dollars for their 5 +11 and u re giving a cosmetic for that 750 dollar

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then u re telling them they now need to pay Idk 50 dollar subscription monthly for something they already paid 750 dollar

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  • u expect new or old f2p people ll load up for this new subscription model bcs its better than current enhancement sytem in ur opinion
sharp granite
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From a business perspective it’s functional. If this game disappears you already lost the money, time, and energy you spent on the game. You’re being caught in the sunk cost fallacy. This is digital. The moment they stop providing server support all you worked for is gone

unkempt vector
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ur business perspective depends on surely this ll keep old players + bring new players

flint pawn
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Quite literally all of this causes extremely more problems than it solves and the economy is the most blatant and easiest issue to resolve. Between botted ED and players RMTing the economy has gone out of control with KoG doing nothing about it despite the blatant abusers right in front of them. If you're in the community for longer than a month you kow the groups of people responsible for the keyboard spam IGN's hitting lvl 99 around the clock. I dont think accounts with trillions of ED are legitimate players let alone keep letting a large amount of the remaining community RMT does any good for the game either. Giving

unkempt vector
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meanwhile I jsut stated 3 reasons why it ll make old and new players hate the game more

flint pawn
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trying to be a backseat business major to make KoG more money when their revenue isnt an issue to begin with is egghead as hell

sharp granite
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And yet Final Fantasy 14 is still operational and getting more players on a subscription base

flint pawn
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I'm not going to explicitely name names but again, people know who is responsible for botting a gross amount of the ED inflating the economy and KoG wont act on it

unkempt vector
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whole game is on subscription model

flint pawn
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let alone consistently enforce RMT

unkempt vector
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u re putting a game which has already multiple paywall + already existing subscription model another subscription model

flint pawn
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adding a hypothetical subscription model is stupid and does nothing to address the actual issue with the economy

unkempt vector
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I m not even adding the gameplay and overall differences between games

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u consider wow and ff14 on the same scale of elsword is crazy on its own

flint pawn
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We have players pass around a +13 amulet like hot potatoes and none of the parties involved were ever banned 💀

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Challenge mode forces were valued at over 60b ED and none of the players that traded them have a valid history of obtaining that ED over a period of time

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prior to the trade obtaining the force

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again, this is all very blatant

unkempt vector
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and how did we go from fixing in game economy to making kog more money?

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considering this subscription model has 0 help to ed inflation and board prices

sharp granite
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People will actually be able to participate in content.

unkempt vector
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people who ll pay

plain jolt
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what people

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everyone will quit lmao

unkempt vector
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exactly

sharp granite
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They’re already quitting

plain jolt
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so.. speed up the issue?

unkempt vector
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ok so lets make em quit faster is ur solution?

flint pawn
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for a plethora of reasons already, adding a subscription model will be another to the list

unkempt vector
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then just say kog should give eos

flint pawn
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if a MMO that already costs an egregious amount to maintain between 2-3 month IB's

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that have already increased in price mind you

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and enhancement

rain chasmBOT
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.e.g.o has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

flint pawn
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adds a subscription model

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for +11 base stats

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not even the enhancement effects or anything actually useful

unkempt vector
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btw u didnt even add the +12 and +13 issue

flint pawn
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🇸🇰

unkempt vector
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so are they paying more for those?

flint pawn
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like you're just actually dellusional

unkempt vector
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50 dollar for 11
150 dollar for 12
300 dollar for 13

plain jolt
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a subscription base game can work but randomly adding a pay to play feature for a game that hasnt been like that for years is not just gonna magically work

flint pawn
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i bet you play rainbox six siege X huh

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you love that premium tier subscription they got

sharp granite
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It’s not even a genuine discussion

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Yes the logic is flawed

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But at the same time

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We still have to acknowledge the company won’t hand us half the things we asked for

flint pawn
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saying its flawed is being generous you're so far off point from what the actual problem is ur practically a politician

plain jolt
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you do realize your suggestion will just make this game more expensive to play right

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50 usd a month just to play is...

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pretty crazy

unkempt vector
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game wont give us the qol we asked for, so we should ask for things that ll make game even worse?

flint pawn
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nevermind the fact that not even half of NA is in NA

sharp granite
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Why are we even putting the monthly subscription at 50

flint pawn
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so people living in coutries with weaker currencies pay more

unkempt vector
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its kog

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bp is 39 dollars

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what do u expect they ll put it at

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ib pity is 300 ibs

flint pawn
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even if its $10 a subscription model does next to nothing for this game 🇸🇰

unkempt vector
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wanna calculate the amount of dollar its

sharp granite
unkempt vector
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and why are u suggesting even +1$ when we re already drowning in paywall

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it wont

plain jolt
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you say 'if' but i dont see how

unkempt vector
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the moment they put 5 dollar to play this game

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people ll drop

sharp granite
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And the 1k doesn’t already?

unkempt vector
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I wanna remind u I m fully f2p

sharp granite
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If I need a +11 to have the CP to play current content

unkempt vector
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most of the playerbase is actually fish amount of load up

plain jolt
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a +11 is not 1k

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what

sharp granite
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+11 + IBs

unkempt vector
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I m 5 +11 player with 0 dollar spent for that

plain jolt
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your original suggestion did not address ibs

unkempt vector
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it was r21 and +11 iirc

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so we re still paying for ibs

sharp granite
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It was too long to add in

unkempt vector
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ok so basically u say

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put every paywall

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behind a subscription

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in reverse which ll make kog lose a lot of money

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bcs if I understood right

sharp granite
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I’m pretty sure synergy is a kc and ED option

plain jolt
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so how much do you suggest

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to play the game

unkempt vector
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I m pretty sure there is no player in this world who buys syn with kc

sharp granite
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No but it’s an option for people who don’t want to spend time grinding because they work

unkempt vector
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u put ed as option. rmt and botters ll have a field day

plain jolt
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make a suggestion that will make both the playerbase and kog satisfied

flint pawn
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or be old enough to vote or be considered an independent adult in your country

sharp granite
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The game should be $15/month at most. The hot spring costume should be updated to provide IB season buffs, and a pve costume set that can actually be useable like the EP costume Acc

vocal idol
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That sounds... Like a terrible idea

flint pawn
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yea blud is ragebaiting

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gg go next

vocal idol
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Adding a subscription model to a p2w game is asking for it's downfall

unkempt vector
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that sounds like it ll both make f2p drop the game and kog cry for their loss of money

vocal idol
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Not to mention, they would have to apply this to ALL servers

plain jolt
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and how does this make existing players more inclined to play the game or people more inclined to try out the game

vocal idol
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And KR doesn't exactly like subscription models

unkempt vector
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are we adding game is free until u complete ur hpp too? like wow does game is free until x level

sharp granite
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It’s at least giving the game a reasonable chance. At the end of the day this game is dying and what we’re currently dealing with is not resolving anything. If we really wanted the community would have had already stopped spending money to have more say in how the game is managed. But yet there’s still a few that would spend and line kog’s pockets. Is it a one size fits all solution? No. But it’s still a different solution beyond what we are dealing with right now

vocal idol
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It doesn't deal with the fundamental issue the game economy has tho

plain jolt
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the game has been 'dying' for like

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6 years now

sharp granite
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Make that 9

plain jolt
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and you still havent answered my question

vocal idol
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The main reason the game is dying is bc of how p2w and grinds the end game is

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Adding a subscription model would just make things worse

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And again they would also have to apply this to all the regions

sharp granite
plain jolt
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no i asked how itll make players more inclined to play

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and you just replied with 'game's dying'

vocal idol
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And outside of bots and RMT, the main issues are definitely drop rates and ED scarcity outside of selling paid items

sharp granite
vocal idol
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Most f2p can only average like 200m ED a week

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Enhance is also a major issue

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Reforge isn't that bad outside of chlorites

plain jolt
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im just not seeing any world where your suggestion actually functions

vocal idol
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Imprinting doesnt exist TPChuckleJustABard

sharp granite
unkempt vector
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u still dont answer

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u say if

plain jolt
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ok but how would adding that subscription

unkempt vector
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so what causes that if

plain jolt
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make them

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inclined to play

vocal idol
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They'll complete the event only to leave after they're done

coarse cloak
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Source? I made it up

sharp granite
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No one will stay when they face the gear wall

coarse cloak
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🗣️ 🔥

unkempt vector
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so u put subscription wall

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I m sure new people ll see the event add then download game then see pay 15 dollar and surely they ll proceed

vocal idol
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Adding another paywall solves this how?

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Itstheraiden

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Runforyourlives

exotic tundra
# flint pawn I'm not going to explicitely name names but again, people know who is responsibl...

Just to be clear, we don't have an all seeing eye to notice every little thing happening, so reporting this to CS directly for an investigation is the way to go. If no one's reporting, then it can't be acted upon.

And I don't mean report it to me. I'm not CS. Me sending it to CS instead just results in the game of Telephone where I can't deliver the exact message or details from the person who has it. Purple Monkey Dishwasher.

flint pawn
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yet the only RMT bans we get are inconsistent at best

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and when you do properly RMT ban, they get reveresed with a week

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you dont have an allseeing eye but if the people moderating the game are this out of touch then idk why you're here to begin with

finite python
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Afaik ppl who have sent tickets to others for rmt especially the “distributors” have actually gotten banned except for 1 person lol

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Whether it be temp or permanent

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Or trade banned

flint pawn
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and that "1 person" has an ungodly amount of ED that is anything but legitimate

finite python
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Yeah I’m not naming names but either way that single person has still gotten banned, although yeah it was temporary

flint pawn
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atp NA just feels like its on maintenance mode with how hands off KoG is lmao

finite python
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To be fair it’s a very annoying issue to solve especially given how our economy is

coarse cloak
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Its not just na lol

finite python
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This thread is how to improve our economy so we don’t have to rely on illegitimate means, so can we keep it to that topic

coarse cloak
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Kr just had a massive scandal with botters

unkempt vector
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tbh I wasnt there when all this happened but if game's whole policy about being against rmt and botters is community. I dont think its feasible or good way to do it

finite python
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Every couple weeks KR has a ban thread on how many ppl got banned

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Would love NA to have the same

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But regardless it’s a different issue

flint pawn
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we can yap and be sophisticaed aristrocrats all we want but if we're not cracking down on RMT or banning ED botters / sellers then its just hot air

vocal idol
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Public shaming is an effective deterrent

finite python
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If we keep seeing things about rmt we aren’t gonna get any suggestions about how to actually fix the economy

vocal idol
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I mean part of the reason ppl resort to those methods is bc of how bad things are

finite python
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Especially because it’s an extremely well known issue

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Yeah

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That’s why this thread exists

coarse cloak
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Well yea the best way is for kog to actually manage botters but like

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At this point it's almost impossible

finite python
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True

vocal idol
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If you want to solve that issue you not only have to enforce things but also deal with the reason it happens in the first placr

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Deal with the cause, not the symptoms

finite python
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Like literally raiden doesn’t have power when it comes to rmt as he already mentioned, as much as I wanna be mean and whatnot I can’t really fault him for that and he’s trying to do something for us so Shrug

vocal idol
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Main cause imo is enhance being so ludicrously expensive, drop rates being so low, chlorites basically being paid only despite being mandatory, and a lot of unnecessary ED sinks especially late game (imprint, circuit crafting, UDW ID rerolls,etc)

exotic tundra
finite python
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Yeah enhancement repair scrolls need to be cheaper as well

plain jolt
finite python
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It’s an absurd cost, and it’s literally more expensive than fluorites

exotic tundra
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I know a lot of you play other games and see other gaming memes, so I'm sure the Gabe Newell quote is one a lot of you know

vocal idol
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Also Ice burners being so necessary to progress now as they keep power creeping them

finite python
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Fluorites themselves imo are fine, but repair scrolls are just absurd

vocal idol
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"Piracy is a service issue, not of malice"

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Or however it goes

finite python
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Something like that.

vocal idol
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Repair scrolls have 0 business being $3.30 a pop

exotic tundra
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Can't remember it word for word but the message is pretty much "Provide a service that Pirates can't beat"

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Which is pretty much the main goal of this thread

unkempt vector
finite python
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Also above yeah subscription sounds awful in elsword, if there is one just keep it like the el pass system similar to cafe we had given a couple times

finite python
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I hate repair scrolls

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It’s so expensive

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$1000 +11 and $800 of that was in repair scrolls

coarse cloak
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I think subscription service for pc cafe bonus is good

finite python
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

unkempt vector
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scroll should be at max 2 fluorite price

unkempt vector
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it wont cause much of the effect

finite python
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I think just remove the breaking system tbh or yeah lower the cost

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By a lot

coarse cloak
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I dont completely disagree with subscription model, but it just cannot be something with enhancement or something that directly increases ur gear

unkempt vector
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problem is making game's neccesarry functions behind subscription

finite python
sharp granite
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Yeah the whole point of me saying anything was to actually explore the idea

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Not this is the one whole solution

finite python
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We had a great system before with el something that was similar to cafe buff in Korea

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But it was always temporary

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-_

unkempt vector
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if u want to more people to load up just put local pricing but thats another feedback title

unkempt vector
finite python
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Yeah

unkempt vector
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it d give u a good costume

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extra inv

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some buffs here and there

coarse cloak
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Like NA is following everything from kr but they dont realize that we are at inherent disadvantage because we are missing out some things that kr can have

finite python
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Costume is whatever just give me 5% atk and more exp

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Which is what KR has

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With cafe

exotic tundra
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VIP and/or El Mega Pass

finite python
unkempt vector
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el mega pass is black friday thingy

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vip was older

finite python
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It was given around a couple times too

unkempt vector
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we asked for el mega pass to be permanent

finite python
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Outside of Black Friday

unkempt vector
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and got rejected 2 black friday

sharp granite
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We don’t even get Black Friday stuff anymore

coarse cloak
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Yea kr can choose whenever they can go pc cafe and get the buff and also join the event that gives them more items

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And what do we get

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Absolutely nothing

finite python
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If mega pass is perma for like $5 a month ik I would buy it personally

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I know many ppl would buy it

coarse cloak
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And they get double exp and ed gain

unkempt vector
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it looks like u re on roll with discord event giving kc to even f2p, so give us el mega pass permanent so we can enjoy those kc

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instead of buying 2 ib and rolling our chances

finite python
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Even if it was for 30 days I’d still get it

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For 500kc

vocal idol
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oh yeah

finite python
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Not some crazy insane price

unkempt vector
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not 3900kc like bp pls

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I still think thats absurdly priced btw

vocal idol
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imo the main issue with the BP is that the rewards simply arent worth the price

finite python
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True

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And true

vocal idol
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like if it actually gave something MEANINGFUL, the $39 every 3 months isnt horrible

finite python
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Only reason I buy BP is for the 5% atk 🥀🥀🥀

plain jolt
vocal idol
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bc that's liike $13 a month which is middle of the road for a bp

coarse cloak
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Well pc cafe in kr is like

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$1 per hour

vocal idol
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Im pretty sure IM prices are the most requested thing to change in this thread

unkempt vector
coarse cloak
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But because we are giving it directly to kog i feel like this can be cheaper

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If something like vip is implemented

vocal idol
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fluorites are fine for the most part, repair scrolls are absurd, chlorites should be way more accessible to f2p

finite python
vocal idol
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and let's not even get into the insanity that is Character change tickets and job changes

unkempt vector
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I m still on the idea of making chlorites fixed item on ep shop

vocal idol
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Why are Exascale char change tickets $44 PER PIECE?!

unkempt vector
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considering every existing armor

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uses same chlorite

sharp granite
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[Ariel] Chlorites should just be added to the SD weekly mission

unkempt vector
finite python
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Give me a character change ticket that changes everything on my character for $500 I’d buy it

unkempt vector
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is waht u should ask

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jay inbound

sharp granite
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I’m pretty sure people would be more willing to participate in mentor system if chlorites/restore scrolls were actually an incentive

vocal idol
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or just have them have a higher drop rate in raid

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from Abyss onward

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gives people more of a reason to farm them

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bc rn the issue with Abyss farming is.. those that have NF have zero reason to really help out new players farm the title

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now if they have a decent chance of dropping chlorites thats a huge incentive

unkempt vector
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even serp is same with concerto

vocal idol
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same with Concerto

unkempt vector
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doom at least gives good amount of T farming

vocal idol
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and Doom Aporia especially once most of the whales have their UDW's staged

merry scaffold
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Until then all you can do is make sure that the lower 90% are not as strongly affected by the damage and reduce the overly predatory pricing structure.

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Maybe I would go for 100% pity or do +12 attempts if it was cheaper.

vocal idol
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You cant beat free when it coems to pricing, the service has to come from elsewhere

merry scaffold
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Or buy a battle pass that has subpar rewards

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The suggestion to officially sell ED via KC was brought up to KR once during a Q&A and they said they wouldn't do it. But it made me wonder if someone actually asked about it or if they included that question to test the waters on the idea in general.

vocal idol
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that would probably make things worse

merry scaffold
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A minecraft mmo server called hypixel skyblock has sold an item that provides a buff for 24 hours, which was the premium item to sell for their in game currency to anyone that wanted to convert money into coins.
They continued to have inflation issues because the methods to farm items caused more currency influx, over the years the monitored their economy and slowly nerfed/removed the ways coins could be generated and things returned for the better.

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But I don't know how this would work since elsword already has items that you can sell to convert KC into ED

coarse cloak
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Well lot of other mmos implemented similar things and they had different results

merry scaffold
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cough gaia online cough

coarse cloak
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Maplestory has it too i mean just looking at other Korean mmos

merry scaffold
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selling ED directly in any way would be a big mistake

coarse cloak
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Lost ark has it

merry scaffold
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The way I see it the game has way too many systems in place that put early and midgame players at a disadvantage while benefiting endgame players and "players" who excessively farm for ED

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Ask yourself when do you use points for ED gain from your El Resonance page?

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You can sacrifice your damage at endgame to slightly increase your consistent sources of ED, but early on it is griefing yourself to do that. Meanwhile those who create characters only to farm for ED will use their first 100 points for that purpose.

plain jolt
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i have not used ed gain erp since 13-3 farm era

merry scaffold
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But you know who happily will do that

coarse cloak
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I use ed gain when I farm

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But I'm never gonna sacrifice my damage in endgame to invest in ed gain erp

merry scaffold
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I think if you nerf or remove ed gain you can also reduce the ed fees too and it will be a positive change for players

crude gust
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I think the first step is to retain playerbase by not implementing some random things into xigncode and makes the game disconnect for 0 reason that even CS didn’t know about and ended up lying to the player AstolfoNight

obtuse roost
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I may be beating a dead horse, I'm mixed on my views for the Sub/Els Premium matter. Economically I see how it can fare, but i'd go into depth later

For the last point? Would be down to see that happen, but idk if the community would want for that to happen. either due to re-adapting to the roles, or debatable balance decisions from KoG.

unkempt vector
gleaming valley
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say them anyways bbg, horton hears a who taught me that if you say it loud enough it'll be heard SMILES

obtuse roost
# unkempt vector If u have plausible reasons why it can work other than "its better than doing no...

To be blunt, this is nothing but a idea. And thought of playing devil's advocate.

I'd see it working similarly to the elrios premium pass ( where it's optiooal but harbors some appealing rewards/needs if bought) versus locking you out of the game if you don't buy a subscription like FF14 or warcraft does.

That premium can temporarely deal woth the roughness of Rng and the inflation of enhancement scroll costs, and put sone potential money in KoG's wallets.

Add in if the pass was split into different "categories": eg: weapon premium, armor premium, or even a temp IBs premium service versus reliance on the 1day rule? That would let players try out or have some access to these items, while they decide to farm for permanent versions of ibs or grinding towards higher enhancements.

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I'll say it again, im playing devil's advocate, surely this idea is trash, but It still is considered by me a little due to kogs hardwalled stance on enhancements. I dont believe they'll improve that system again, nor give out more weekly enhacement rewards.

unkempt vector
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Ok so just to clarify before I make comments. U re talking about a pass that gives wep +11 buff (with enh buffs and not just stats?) For limited time for money? etc etc

obtuse roost
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Yes. A pass.

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If i can think of a game that gives benefits similar to a pass or membership? Aqworlds

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Despite it being nore. . . Extreme on what it gives members vs free players. Not the best but it comes to mind.

unkempt vector
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Well I dont think people d be delighted for it because whales ll already go for +11 as usual and I m not sure little spenders d prefer temp buffs (I m considering how much it might cost), its already an idea f2p can't touch so I ll leave them out thinking

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For mmo temp things isnt well received, u can see it from promo cubes, challange suit. Thats how I observed though. It might be wrong

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Bcs let's assume it ll be 10 dollar a month. I personally d prefer saving the said 10 dollar to get perma +11 since u have chance of skipping + enhancement events

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And I dont see it has having any impact to in game economy overall.

obtuse roost
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Entirely understandable.

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To that degree, I'd have to ask if enhancement events are really frequent enough?
In my view, not that much.

And in terms of enhancement rng? Ive been fortunate to get a +11 once, and never again. I'm sure there folks who havent had any chance with it, or had to pay a higher price for one.

Can agree with the temp item matter, not a lot of folks would care to use promo sets unless its in MW form (which is a dumpster fire in itself due to magemelia)

In terms of that matter, I'd have to see if its possible to apply a +11 temp enhancement on a weapon that can activate its effects and then revert back to its original enhancemelt level. Thats arguaably too much to ask for, so that may be a degree I'll conceede on.

I still that that there has to be some way to make the process of enhancing kore appealing

unkempt vector
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Idk effects but there are item that gives +11 stats for a day larasip so I dont think its hard to add effects but my point is enhancement system itself is flawed

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As its stated mostly bcs cost of restoration scrolls being too expensive compared to fluorites

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20m a fluorite isnt actually bad. It's normal 120m a pop for restoration is problem. Considered u can break 5 times+ in a row

obtuse roost
unkempt vector
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We should have one soon, I think. It's not announced tho

obtuse roost
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I'm reading more of your points, but i'll drop one more thing for the "premium pass matter"

Maybe, if a premium pass was to be a thing, there should be the option of giving material benefits per day and week

(premium gifting, premium pass quests that gives ehnancement materials that can stack on top of the nornal weeklies, or quests or day-based gifting of premium items (scrolls Ice burners, etc.)

unkempt vector
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Take what I say with a grain of salt. I dont remember surely

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We have already requested weekly enhancement materials to be increased or be given both (1 scroll 5 fluorite)

obtuse roost
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Agreed on the resto scrolls being the problem.

unkempt vector
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Tbh I dont want to put more things behind paywall as band aid

obtuse roost
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I dont like the band-aids either, nor a paywalled one.

I decided to see how appealing the Devil's advocacy can be, knowing KoG wants money and money may be the only thing that talks to them.

Or a big truck with a sign for protest.

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I'm gonna say this for sure:

2 enhancement events per yesr is asinine.

obtuse roost
plain jolt
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i mean an issue i can think of is like

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well rn i could feasibly tell someone to try the game as its free to at least try out the gameplay

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if you add a subscription im not sure if people will be willing to give the game a try

scarlet pulsar
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There's always the FFXIV method with a unlimited free trial and gil cap and trade restrictions

obtuse roost
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But really I do believe that this wont resolve the issue

plain jolt
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i still think the simplest fix is to lower item mall costs across the board

obtuse roost
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From what i can recall, they broght ib prices up under the guise of pity.

Cant recall the last time theyve brought prices down on a KC item or anything in the item mall

merry scaffold
#

If you give players the ability to go to end game they will quickly realize that there is no content to play 🤣

#

FFXIV actually has things to do

spring ferry
#

more ED/dungeon, fr, too much burn, too much burn.

lyric grove
#

Like what Yumi said, when it comes to recommending anyone to play the game, its nigh impossible to tell them how much you have to spend on the game before you can reasonably play every content in the game. I also doubt Kog will lower the item mall pricing without clear evidence/data to back up, that it will attract sufficient amount of new players to cover the loss. While regional pricing is off the table, I still like to point out item mall costs of the same item cost more in NA than in KR, shouldn't we have equivalent pricing throughout the world?
I personally think subscription model has its merit but if you want to apply to Elsword, it will have to be something different. Recently Kog introduced a 30 day Adventurer Growth Boost Invisible costume, and this is a potential subscription model that, not saying it will recur, Kog has put in the game on top of the seasonal pass. What something similar they can do is introduce a 60 or 90 day gear package, that while can't match existing gear but still let you enter most recent content. Then people that just want to get a taste of Elsword experience can pay a lump sum to play. Should there be a limit on how many packages per account? personally, I think there shouldn't be because I think most people would agree if they have the choice they would like to play more than one class/char. As an existing Elsword player, I will finally be able to play a different class in end game content.
In terms of how much this should cost, to be honest, not something crazy, so I can actually tell my friends "hey you know, if you want to play elsword, you can kind of rent the game for $60. We can play together and if you want to keep playing, drop another $60 or actually get the gear the way I did." I don't know... sounded like a good idea in my head 🤔

merry scaffold
#

That package is a bad attempt to fix the issue that newbs don't farm el resonance, just like events and extra bonus exp for newbs it won't get them to where they need their resonance to be to play the game properly

obtuse roost
#

That's something very important.

#

best solution I have for that May be the bring in more El Res & EXP weekends.

exotic zenith
#

In terms of ED, no matter what changes happens someone will be unhappy, i wanted to suggest increasing ED gains from running dungeons, but it is redundant as ultimately the rich gets richer, that is the framework we live in.

While my opinion stands that the game needs a full ED wipe and then a better controlled market,(this includes trades too) i highly doubt it would happen but it would be a welcome sight to me.

What i am talking about is regulated pricings on items, it means for example an Apple can only cost max 60,000 on the market, but minimum 30,000, but if demand is too low the prices will eventually reduce, while if demand is too high the prices will eventually rise.(there would still need to be hardcaps for max and min price.)

No more XX billions for a single item, No more random Slimy Resin sold for billions.(if you know you know)

This does suggest you can't just give players free items anymore, or just free ED.

^While i'm aware the community by a majority wouldn't appreciate such a model as i know people appreciate the freedom to gift/borrow/loan items or ED.
There is no such thing as a scenario where everyone can be happy.

But even if my wish comes through it wouldn't fix everything, because as we know it cash is power.
No matter what progression you look for, it goes back to you relying on the cash shop items, it doesn't matter if "Jimmy paid for it" and you bought it on board, it is still cash shop relied upon.

And usually in a RPG game, you look for your numbers to get bigger so you can progress further, which as i just mentioned is tried to the cash shop. So at the end of the day, even if you had 50 billion ED, ED means nothing if there is no kc sellers around.

TL;DR Wipe ED, create regulated market, make progression available without extreme reliance on cash shop.

merry scaffold
#

Wiping ED is so drastic, we have enough ED sinks in the game that would help enough. The issue is that more ED is generated than the sinks can remove. If you can cut off the absurd ED inflation methods (unusual farming), and then give it a few months the overall value of ED should increase with time.

I agree on a more regulated market, having a hard cap on certain items would be helpful (fighter potions, apples, all p2w prog items) Encourage people to spend money in this game outside of the rare limited package sale.

exotic zenith
#

Back when we had old market where we set up stalls, and didnt have market boards, a bug was discovered where people were able to duplicated certain items and created more ED selling those items such as El Shard (Mystery), and not everyone was banned for it, and neither did KoG decide to roll back and damage that was already done, as in, ED that already hit circulation. We also a had a handful of bots who farmed endlessly (and there still are).

In my opinion it's necessary to reset the worth of each item, and not have multi billionaire ED users buy the whole market asap because it's "cheap", and immediately play monopoly.

While bots are hard to play against, even now, bots would be set on the same rules, regulated prices and can't simply trade ED, or buy a random item for a weird amount. As for RMT, some users turns to RMT because it's a more feasible market than burning ib's or enhancing.(yes there are people buying +11/+12 amulets for real money.)

It is not about eliminating these things because that is hard to do, but rather present options to make people less inclined to do so.

(take the word multi billionaire with a grain of salt, but some people has way more ed than they know what to do with it all.)

plain jolt
#

I mean atp you might as well not sell anything

#

I dont really see a way they can implement a market control system without it just flopping

#

And theres no way you are convincing me that wiping all ed is the solution

#

Theres just too many issues to consider like

#

How will you compensate for the people who are holding onto a lot of ed rn or at least keep them happy

#

What about items that can be sold to npcs for ed

#

Whats stopping people from just farming normal dngs for ed

#

Or just using multiple accs for weekly ed quests or sds

#

And like if people dont think theyre getting their moneys worth for selling things then they just wont sell it

#

So whats the solution for that

plain jolt
#

'ed means nothing if theres no kc sellers around' is also just not true i mean

#

Reforge clicks, abyss stones, udw rolls, atma stone fusion, circuits, chips

#

This is not really stuff you can get using kc

exotic zenith
#

There should always be value by straight up farming ED, Increase taxes on market, and remove other ED sinks. Simple as that.

And as i said above i am already aware what my opinion will be opposed by people are used in a more freedom based market.

That is why we get accessories that are "worth" 15billion on more as soon as they release, obviously this is a healthy market where even new players has a chance to participate in the market. Obviously with what is going on the market they don't even need to treat elsword like a second job or rely on someone else to pay money for them to progress!

Some sarcasm aside.
As i also mentioned it's impossible to keep everyone happy, there will simply always be someone pulling the short stick, sadly for what a centralized market would be able to do is in my opinion way better than people flipping prices or hoarding. In the long run such market would be beneficiary for anyone and everyone. As we have our market right now it is simply not healthy. And yes the general case for ED spending even to NPC's needs to be worked on.

Even with a centralized market, it is still a living market meaning staff will need to constantly keep an eye on it, it's an entire different workload comparing to what we got now, which i wont mention a second time.

"ed means nothing if there is no kc sellers around" This refers to, and let me broaden that statement, no matter how much ED, Mystics, Any magic stones, circuits, chips, or funds to click reforge you got, no chlorite, no fluorite, no resto scroll, no +10/+11/+12, unless you are very very lucky, and got forbid your item breaks, even if you had 100bil ed to your name, no access cash shop items, no resto scroll. Thus, progression is tied to the cash shop.

You can try and argue free enhance items, but it still untradable cash shop items. And there might just be a reason why the chlorites from dungeons are so incredibly rare...maybe because kog wants us to buy them from cash shop?

#

By all means yes, i have gotten +11 from weeklies alone (i just had to mention it because if i don't, someone else eventually will).

plain jolt
#

Your argument is progression is tied to cash shop so cap the price of every item being sold by the community

#

Why not just lower item mall prices atp

#

And you do realize increasing board tax just incentivizes players to rmt more right

#

Which is not what we want

vocal idol
#

also price controls have notoriously never worked in the real world

#

all it does is create stagnation

#

and with how relatively small this community is, would probably end up worse than how it does IRL and it ends up pretty bad IRL TPChuckleJustABard

#

It's also basically "How to create a monopoly 101"

exotic zenith
#

No, cash shop being a part of progression is not the best yes, but as a whole, if we want to improve the economy, drastic measures has to be done, adding more ED sinks or Giving more Daily/Weekly ED Rewards will not fix anything.

So in my opinion, remove all ED sinks, and add tax to the market instead. By forcing a price tag on items even in trate, it will be harder for RMT to sell for example +12 amulets for real money.

This is not the real world, we can't run into a cave, kill some bugs and money appears, and while we can have a job, work and make wage, we can only trade real world money for KC, which fuels a market who believes our current market is healthy as it is. But i dont think that aligns with why this thread is made.

vocal idol
#

you are aware that MMO economies have been used in real-world studies on economics right

#

also there already is a tax in the market

exotic zenith
#

yes, and i use another MMO as a sample when i type this, that is why i know a long term game economy can be better than what elsword has to offer.

plain jolt
#

You do know that

#

Adding more board tax encourages rmt

vocal idol
#

also introducing taxes does literally nothing but add an ED sink...

plain jolt
#

Right

vocal idol
#

and that ^

#

literally look up any real world example of what people will do to avoid taxes

plain jolt
#

Because the less value you get for selling your items for in game currency

vocal idol
#

it translates to in game pretty well

plain jolt
#

The more people are inclined to sell for real money instead

vocal idol
#

a clear issue with this games economy is cash shop items being necessary for progression

#

and those progression items being very expensive

exotic zenith
#

I need to ask while on topic, are you guys happy with the current ed sinks?

vocal idol
#

imo the clear solution would be to add the ability to acquire them in-game and lowering the prices

exotic zenith
#

Do you think the current ED sinks we got and are getting are good?

plain jolt
vocal idol
#

I dont think anybody likes them

plain jolt
#

But i do not believe that your suggestion would fix the issue

exotic zenith
#

Do you think the current market is healthy?

vocal idol
#

reforge and mystic enchant I think are the only 2 that ppl tolerate

plain jolt
vocal idol
#

if it were, this thread wouldnt exist

plain jolt
#

But i do not think your suggestion would fix the issue

exotic zenith
#

What do you believe would break the cycle and steer this economy another way?

plain jolt
#

Lowering item mall prices

exotic zenith
#

We already established more ed sinks isnt good

vocal idol
#

lower prices across the board, make 10% chlorites droppable in dungeon, make the weekly enh quest give both scroll and fluorite

#

increase drop rates of accessories

exotic zenith
#

And how to you encourage lower prices on board?

vocal idol
#

INCREASE SUPPLY

plain jolt
#

Theres no reason the average endgame player should need to pay 800-1k usd every 3 years, 200-1.5k every 2 years, and 250-450 every 4 months just to stay relevant

vocal idol
#

economics literally boils down the supply and demand

exotic zenith
#

So rely on cash shop?

vocal idol
#

rn there's an excess of demand and nowhere near enough supply

#

so the best way to balance it is to increase the supply

plain jolt
vocal idol
#

but not so much that ED becoems worthless

#

the patch we just got increasing the drop rates of CoH and ECS was a great way of doing it

#

it still takes a grind to get one, just not too long

#

but if you dont wanna spend like an hour grinding, spend ED on board

plain jolt
#

We need something thatll both reduce costs and grow the playerbase

exotic zenith
#

Altering numbers on drops does not fix the issue, its only convenience

vocal idol
#

?????????????

plain jolt
#

Theres not enough people farming for important drops

vocal idol
#

it increases supply

#

which is a huge issue

exotic zenith
#

Yes, but More CoH on the market wont fix the market

vocal idol
#

but it lowers the cost...

plain jolt
#

Do yk the concept of supply and demand

vocal idol
#

which is a step in the right direction

exotic zenith
#

Maybe icnrease drop rate on the 5% chlorites, now we are cooking

vocal idol
#

do you know how supply and demand works

plain jolt
vocal idol
#

bc rn the main issue of this economy is too much demand, not enough supply

plain jolt
#

The example was just increase the drop rate of thing like how they did with coh ecs

exotic zenith
vocal idol
#

and CoH/ECS being MANDATORY accessories

#

ECS was 2b before the patch btw

#

you know how long it takes to get that as f2p unless you get absurdly lucky

quasi fern
#

sadly they didnt increase the drop rate out of the goodness of their hearts they increased it because the next dungeon from atam is rng on top of rng

#

but hopefully yeah i would like them to do that to many other things as well

vocal idol
#

ok? still a needed change

exotic zenith
#

Most of the things needs a change, but the pool of ED circulating is more than just a couple of bossdrops

quasi fern
plain jolt
#

I didnt say that it was?

exotic zenith
#

We are talking IB sets with a pity of i forgot 280$? 480$?

#

how wil licnrease boss drops fix the economy as a whole

#

it wont.

vocal idol
#

....that's not the only thing tho?

exotic zenith
#

thus i say, altering number alone will not fix the economy

plain jolt
#

Thats why the simplest fix is to lower item mall prices

vocal idol
#

it does help significantly, fixing ONE problem doesnt mean the issue is fixed

#

why do I feel like im talking to an econ major

#

(deragatory)

plain jolt
#
  1. You can incentivize more people to buy said items
  2. You keep the playerbase more engaged with the game
exotic zenith
#

So you mean to say if 20 players can farm 100 CoH a day, how much ED can he sustain for progression to come?

plain jolt
#

The only thing is you'd have to somehow grab enough players to make it work

vocal idol
#

what on earth are you talking about

plain jolt
#

So just pair it with an event like a +11 soa + punch event and you're good

exotic zenith
#

You are saying Boss drops are going down in price, because drop rate is rising

vocal idol
#

they are

exotic zenith
#

less worth means less ed gained

vocal idol
#

yes

plain jolt
#

But doesnt that argument apply to your suggestion too

#

Lmao

vocal idol
#

^

#

the problem is those accessories are MANDATORY TO HAVE

exotic zenith
#

no, it means nothing will be fixed by it

vocal idol
#

but theyre so expensive that most f2p get priced out

#

and therefore cannot progress

exotic zenith
#

it only makes accessories more accessable

plain jolt
vocal idol
#

ok? and that's ONE FIX to like 7 problems

exotic zenith
#

but its reforge and enhancements the pulls the biggest weight in accessing newer content

vocal idol
#

why are you assuming that Im saying it'll fix everything

plain jolt
#

Has this guy read a single thing i said

#

Ggs

exotic zenith
#

because the subject of the topic is ways to improve the economy, not dispensing accessories

vocal idol
#

oh my god you are an econ major arent you TPChuckleJustABard

#

let me repeat myself and can you properly read it this time

exotic zenith
#

Yes, sarcasm, slow applaud.

The subject is the Improve the economy, saying better drop rates will not fix the market, simple as

vocal idol
#

Economics literally boils down to SUPPLY AND DEMAND

#

Demand is sky high and supply is below the ground low

#

the demand is mostly for Item Mall exclusive items and Boss drops

exotic zenith
#

So you are saying, with a low supply of IB shoes, 400mil is Ok? With a low supply, 15bil or more for a ring is ok?

vocal idol
#

and those boss drops are MANDATORY (needed) for progression(progressing through the game)

exotic zenith
#

no, there is a pool of ed that makes these sales possible to execute

vocal idol
#

hmm

#

time to go the ELI5 route

#

Those items are needed to make your character stronger and they cost too much for free to play players to afford

exotic zenith
#

i asked if those prices were good for you

vocal idol
#

so increasing the drop rates increases supply, lowers the costs, and gives F2P's a better chance of progressing

#

Ice burners are a different issue

#

in one ear and out the other

exotic zenith
#

It is still a part of our economy

vocal idol
#

ok? and Im explaining to you how to fix ONE 1 (the number) issue

exotic zenith
#

And yes, i do know more items = more accessable, thats not hard to figure out

vocal idol
#

oh you do now? good job

#

proud of you

exotic zenith
#

Thank you, cookie when?

vocal idol
#

never

plain jolt
exotic zenith
#

Well damn

plain jolt
#

Rather than slapping a bandaid fix

vocal idol
#

Im just gonna leave this now, I can feel my blood pressure rising

#

would make an analogy here but that would get me bonked

#

so im outta here

crude gust
#

I think we should think of what exactly do we want to buy with ed that we need to “improve the economy”? What is your ed income and what is your desired price for those stuff

exotic zenith
#

Look, i am open to other opinions but i personally stated my opinion and if people disagrees and thinks what we got is preferable, by rather simply add more of X items you can think of, go crazy, i won't think any less of anyone else opinion, neither am i here to bend anyone else idea of what they prefer. So there is no need to try and act superior to someone else because they have a different opinion.

crude gust
#

If we are talking about IB access being 15b, i think thats a fair price if we look at the individual IB price and the rate to get them.

1 IB is 70m
Rate of access is like 0.45% (KR published rate)
With 15b you have 60% chance to get the access from ib alongside many other items, or guarantee the access itself. So it’s fair.

To reduce the acc price, we can either improve the drop rate and/or reduce the single ib price. If we went back to where ed was (35-40:100), the acc price will be around 7-8b. Still an arm and a leg worryCoughBlood

#

So when we talk about improving the economy, what exactly are we trying to fix?

vocal idol
#

supply

#

demand is already there and is healthy enough

#

the supply is definitely the issue

crude gust
#

If you could I’d prefer some actual numbers

plain jolt
#

Zera

vocal idol
#

not sure how youd quantify it into numbers

plain jolt
vocal idol
#

but yeah like Yumi said, the price just to stay relevant is absurd

#

and is definitely driving away f2p only and newer players

crude gust
#

I mean I agree, you know me. But that is the issue coming from kog itself with how many powercreep ib every 3 months

plain jolt
#

I think powercreep ibs every 3 months would be fine if the prices werent so high

vocal idol
#

eh that's a slippery slope imo

#

I think the IB's should stay relatively the same power level as they are now with gradual creep every year or so

#

rather than every 3 months

crude gust
#

Ok here are some numbers. Again the accessory rate is 0.45%. Single ib cost $1.6. At 300 rolls aka $480 you have 75% chance to get a single accessory piece

#

So it is kog problem, not ed supply no?

plain jolt
#

Its their pricing thats the issue

#

Yes

exotic zenith
#

the ED worth comes where you convert ED to KC ratio

crude gust
#

I want to clearly understand what are we trying to fix with the ed supply here

scarlet pulsar
#

The biggest issue is that even though people complain about the pricing they still buy said items which makes it acceptable to KoG because why change policy when you're raking in money

vocal idol
#

it's FOMO

#

FOMO is a very powerful driver to spend money against their best interest

crude gust
#

Yeah and it can happen with or without the ed supply

plain jolt
#

you also incentivize more people to play so we can actually reach critical mass for the in game econ

crude gust
#

I know exactly when is the ed price boomed from 35-40 to 70-80, and before the 70-80 era, things like AM neck was still 5b on board just bc 5b was the maximum number they can put it there

scarlet pulsar
#

The thing is from a business perspective, that's not a guarantee, if you're getting money now by milking whales why lower prices for a market you may not get

plain jolt
#

theres a lot of people who quit because 'game too expensive'

#

you are correct that that is definitely a concern

vocal idol
scarlet pulsar
#

Like I get it, I would honestly be more inclined to spend if it's cheaper but also it's not a guarantee that there's enough people like that

plain jolt
#

i dont really have the numbers to crunch so i cant really tell you but i can say at least from a player perspective, it would probably increase the playerbase. if handled correctly they can get more spenders too

vocal idol
#

the p2w is already driving ppl away

quasi fern
#

still wish they made lootboxes=gamble in the us there was a mass concern for that and then it went away

crude gust
#

Btw at 15b for a guaranteed piece of accessory, you’re looking at what, $150-200 instead of $480 for 75% chance if you can only buy it from IM

vocal idol
#

the game already has a reputation of being super p2w

#

where youre expected to spend hundreds just to keep up with end game

#

it's definitely a problem where a full IB set can cost as much as a game console

#

why spend $500 on a costume set thatll be irrevelant in a year when I can buy a Switch 2 which will stay relevant for 6+ years

crude gust
#

See yall were complaining about the ed supply without knowing where it’ll go

#

Cuz the root of evil isnt the ed supply

plain jolt
#

i never said ed supply

vocal idol
#

I mean, the increase in ED suppl would make ppl more willing to use all those currently hated ED sinks

crude gust
#

Its kog and their pricing / rate

vocal idol
#

like, nobody likes imprinting or making circuits simply due to the price

crude gust
#

Yeha not u worryWhip

plain jolt
#

yo WHO said that

scarlet pulsar
#

Yeah Ed value is pegged to the US dollar so if the items that cost real money are expensive the value of Ed is just doomed

vocal idol
#

also another factor, increasing supply overall would heavily discourage botting

#

I do believe the current supply issues are why people do that

crude gust
#

Let’s think about a world where the-one-shall-not-be-named is gone

#

So you’ll spend $480 for 75% chance to get a piece of IB and $300 to enhance from +10 to +11

#

Don’t tell me you like that more

vocal idol
#

I dont think anyone said theyre happy with that

crude gust
#

Yeah and that’s what will happen if that person and the likes were gone

#

They are the symtoms, not the cause

vocal idol
#

yes that what I just said

#

I said they exist bc of supply issues

crude gust
#

Well at least we can agree now dealing with them isn’t gonna solve anything if not making stuff much more expensive

#

Than it already is

vocal idol
#

they were part of the reason ED became so inflated tho

#

this is why Ive been suggesting letting IM stuff drop in dungeons, increasing drop rates of necessary accessories, etc

crude gust
#

Ok and what are you gonna do if ed werent inflated? When it was 35-40:100 AM neck was still 5b

vocal idol
#

give them less of a reason to do their thing

#

reduce IM prices too ofc

#

doing just one thing wont solve the economy issue

crude gust
#

Well yeah increasing the rate and reducing price and increasing supply will be much more in KoG’s control

vocal idol
#

it's like 7-8 different thigns of varying intensity

crude gust
#

Looking at a certain game they are doing really well in making ppl feel satisfy with the economy

vocal idol
#

other MMO's have healthier economies bc the supply is relatively healthy to demand

#

and their progression isnt tied to item mall exclusive items

crude gust
vocal idol
#

theyre also not korean based where it seems to be acceptable over there TPChuckleJustABard

crude gust
#

The last time KoG did something with NA economy it ended up in inflation in KR sv

vocal idol
#

very much a cultural thing there

crude gust
#

Aka the SD revamp

#

In other words, its hopeless

vocal idol
#

I do think KR culture definitely plays a role

plain jolt
vocal idol
#

since over there youre expected to leave college as a salaryman or some other skilled job

plain jolt
#

so the same raw amt of ed makes a bigger impact over there than here

vocal idol
#

as a result korea has an extreme shortage of unskilled labor

#

and since the average korean makes way more salary-wise they might not see the P2W as an issue

#

it's the opposite of the US currently where there' a surplus of unskilled labor and a shortage of skilled

quasi fern
#

It also doesn't help that we get one to one balance patches in terms of nerfs the ed nerf for sds might have be warranted for kr but not for NA

#

Prenerf you could only get maybe two cholorite seeds with that ed for the entire week lmao

plain jolt
#

so once again based off all of this, the solution is just to lower item mall prices

finite python
#

Just lower item mall prices bro

#

🥀

quasi fern
#

The day pigs fly that is. I personally think the game would die first then lower prices

crude gust
#

That’s number 1 thing in stuff that KoG wont ever do

quasi fern
#

Or be to late to recover

finite python
#

Yeah but if they want our comments on the game economy

#

And everyone is saying lower IM prices

#

And they don’t do it

#

Just shows they don’t listen

#

which they don’t so

#

:3

quasi fern
#

Yeah catch 22

crude gust
#

The root of the evil is just IM pricing, from enhancing to IBs to chlorite

vocal idol
#

I'm pretty sure lowering IM prices is by far the most agreed upon thing

plain jolt
#

it doesnt even have to follow kr

#

just slash prices in na (idk anything about int)

#

lol

finite python
#

Just take the IM and slash everything in half lol

vocal idol
#

More than that imo

#

70%

finite python
#

Literally just halve everything

#

I think 70% is a bit too much

crude gust
#

But but money for return ali-

vocal idol
#

I think fluorite are fine where theyr at

crude gust
finite python
#

But in general I think everything should be halved or more

#

Not anything less lol

plain jolt
vocal idol
#

It's resto scrolls which need to be cut or removed entirely

crude gust
#

Money for kruztpe-

finite python
#

Yeah true delete restoration scrolls

vocal idol
#

Archaic p2w mechanic

#

That only causes frustration

#

If they won't do that, lower the price of it to like 60kc at most

finite python
#

Remove restoration scrolls or slash their price and slash the prices of everything in the item mall

vocal idol
#

$3.30 is just ridiculous

finite python
#

Is literally the most agreed upon thing

vocal idol
#

And $2.20 if you buy the bundle is still too damn much

finite python
#

Restoration scrolls made me not try for 12 again

quasi fern
vocal idol
#

Chlorites shouldn't be more than 50kc

#

T&s scrolls same thing

quasi fern
#

5kc more like it

exotic tundra
plain jolt
#

problem with removing enhance breaks is you'd have to get the kr side to agree with that too so

vocal idol
#

They won't ever

finite python
#

lol yeah

#

But in general just slash prices lol

vocal idol
#

Bc I don't think they see it as a problem

quasi fern
#

Who wouldn't agree to a qol oh wait

plain jolt
#

which yea definitely has an even lower chance of happening

finite python
#

IBs going 100 to 160 should’ve never been a thing even with the pity introduced

vocal idol
#

^

#

They should be lowered to 80kc imo

finite python
#

Just keep it 50/100 for a nice even number

crude gust
#

They gonna make up for the losses that never occured yet somehow

vocal idol
#

No 🗿

finite python
#

Absolutely a cash grab move

crude gust
#

They did the same thing for enhancing pity

quasi fern
#

Kr patch notes control c >control v NA

plain jolt
crude gust
#

And never admit it publicly

vocal idol
finite python
#

But

#

Holy cringe

#

I have to load $50 more

quasi fern
#

Ngl the pity for the current ib set up should give you a full set

#

Not just a peice

finite python
#

And hitting pity is alr a lot

vocal idol
#

Too much

#

Might as well not be a pity

crude gust
#

Pity rate is based on what you get, not even a flat pity btw

finite python
#

Yeah lol

plain jolt
#

i feel like pity rate is reverse of what it should be

#

apparently better item = more pity

crude gust
#

Hoory I got an S tier item

#

Its my 19th pair of shoes

#

💀

finite python
#

🗣️🔥

crude gust
#

A lot of games are coming out so uh best way to fix your economy is to not play elsword

#

🤣

finite python
#

I CAN’T WAIT FOR SILKSONG 🗣️🗣️🗣️

crude gust
#

At least 2 anime mmos announced their release this october

#

🗣️

vocal idol
quasi fern
#

I'm debating quitting/waiting this new region out as it's rng slop and I'd rather just skip it till they nerf it get my dogma and take a huge break

finite python
#

Ultrakill layer 8 this year 🗣️

plain jolt
finite python
unkempt vector
#

not about this idea itself but please dont use "trying something is better than doing nothing/protecting status quo. Do you like current 'insert anything'." as ur base for ur ideas. I started to see it more and more when people disagree with some ideas and its not proper or good way to defend or represent ur idea. "What if it works" will never appease KoG or probable loss of fail that will affect players

exotic tundra
quasi fern
#

More understandable for this topic because it effects their bottom line. However for other topics even if the change is good or bad I personally would rather see some sort of progression even if small into some of the problems this game has because let's make no mistakes the reason why ppl think they don't listen is because they don't improve things bit by bit they take either to long to the point where the improvement is now mute or the amount of people that could have hypothetically stay playing thr game already left. Cough cough on release berthe good example

#

Now that doesn't mean everything under the sun but some progress is better then none

unkempt vector
#

no most of the reason we think they dont listen is because we re getting 0 feedback/answer. Not seeing any improvement is still an answer. if we proposed something and they said "No" to our face, we d actually say yeah kog "listens" but doesnt care which we cant even tell this bcs we dont get any feedback other than raiden's "I forwarded it" no offense Raiden. you do your job ThumbsUp. NDA NDA something something.

vocal idol
#

feedback directly from KR would be nice but that's a seperate issue

quasi fern
#

I mentally picture the mister krabs saying money gif everytime lmao

plain jolt
#

Regardless of what the change is, it always requires money to change. Every dollar going into said change is a dollar away from developping things like new raids/story/dungeons/gear etc etc. you know, the things that get kog their income. Any change has to justify that immediate loss first

vocal idol
#

yeah if only KR didnt outright admit to funneling Elsword money to Kurtzpel and Return Alive

#

instead of growing Elsword

quasi fern
unkempt vector
#

We can justify the regional pricing bcs we have good amount of people telling directly they d start loading up/load up more if prices d match the economy of their respective countries aka regional pricing and there are other games as example where its shown people tend to load more when they can actually aford it through regional pricing.

#

just an example of justification

quasi fern
plain jolt
#

Its just how it is unfortunately and we just have to work around that

quasi fern
#

More like watch it all burn down

unkempt vector
#

as someone working in software company as junior just started. I had to explain why I changed 1 number which was the time of setTimeout bcs they found my explanation lacking in git.

rose hedge
#

kinda feels painful to see all those correct and logic arguments/suggestions that wont make their way in game because kog just does not care 😔

quasi fern
#

And not to mention they're already getting the bag

#

So why change it

#

And if it downtrend give some kinda statement or qol that should've happened day one of release and watch ppl eat it up

#

The cycle continues

#

It's just how many times are ppl willing to put up with it

merry scaffold
#

The simplest solutions have been denied in the very first post by raiden because of lazy

#

and greed

#

Maybe if you make things cheaper people would be willing to play more than 1 character, this would fix more issues at endgame level for party forming and less player exhaustion from playing only one character. And those who don't want to do that would probably be doing +12 attempts. And the +12 users might consider clicking for +13. You could literally trickle up player satisfaction and not lose out on any money but we don't do that because how else are you going to condition players to feel happy about lackluster events?

vocal idol
merry scaffold
#

The two biggest solutions that would fix everything given time are denied, everything else is masking the issue.

vocal idol
#

bots are a symptom, not the cause

merry scaffold
#

symptom: no moderation

#

"but you don't know everything"
I know what I see

#

KR: deflation after enforced tax
NA: inflation somehow continued

#

At the very least while things are god awful you can make sure that newbs aren't as affected by it as other players are

#

But that is all you can realistically do

#

Reducing IM prices would help to a degree too but we got told no

#

So what is left to do? Suggest better ED sinks and reduce the amount of ED generated into the economy across the board?

#

You can have hundreds of solutions like that

vocal idol
#

we werent told no

#

we were told "no region exclusive loadup bonuses"

merry scaffold
#

Ok so KoG doesn't care about doing solutions that would work, good to know everything in this thread is a waste of time then.

#

Meanwhile the new magic stone fuse function costs you 20m daily to use

#

Cool another bad ed sink we are forced to engage with

merry scaffold
#

I think the main thing missing is a restoration scroll package in the IM, we don't even get those during events.

#

And pity has to be adjusted too

exotic tundra
#

@merry scaffold Alright one and only warning. The thread's purpose was made clear in the 1st post. Calling it "lazy" or a waste of time isn't going to help the situation and we won't tolerate it since it's not constructive at all. There have been many solutions made in this thread and you've made some too, so stick with that. Constantly bringing it up despite the 1st post being clear about this isn't helping.

merry scaffold
#

Good that you read it then

frozen tangle
#

Hey, be civil. :<

vocal idol
#

reading the threads and forwarding feedback is his job

merry scaffold
#

Maybe it can be forwarded better

merry scaffold
frozen tangle
#

If this is the only time you break the rule, sure. I don't know, maybe I'm too much of a goody-two-shoes to break rules for attention. ^^;

exotic tundra
#

The need to break a rule to get me to read something doesn't work since I've already read it. Same with pinging me. Just because you ping me doesn't mean I will suddenly read it.

merry scaffold
#

I apologize for that, in retrospect the discussed stuff here is going to be helpful if it leads to changes made. I hope to see that happen, it would be extra cool if it was brought up that western voices were heard (for when changes come).

crude gust
# merry scaffold Maybe if you make things cheaper people would be willing to play more than 1 cha...

The director of the game really said this himself “this game is meant to play with only 1 character” 💀 idk and idc about the changes they made since that time, but it shows how stray away their vision were, or even now, from what the community expect from this game, which is to have a lot of characters viable and freely change between them. This is why we had so many “cannot be bankshare” stuffs from 12x all the way to abyss.

#

And why things are as expensive as it is rn xinmieng

merry scaffold
#

That is a different issue but I think if you make enhancement better with pricing it will solve a lot of it already.

#

If I complained about them initially balancing around "character feel" and not statistics this thread would be derailed.

quasi fern
#

imo best solution is to make gear account wide

merry scaffold
#

The underlying thing is that I think people would enjoy playing more than 1 character, and being given the choice to do so financially would be nice.

quasi fern
#

but that's to generous

#

imagine not having to bank

#

everything is tied account wide

merry scaffold
quasi fern
#

least they could do for the community

#

just like how i want them to remove half and half pants

merry scaffold
#

Maybe character locked armor was a mistake

#

omg I totally forgot about armor change/char change tickets being stupid expensive too

#

it was $40 per character armor change piece? That is as much as the overpriced el pass

#

for one armor piece

vocal idol
#

Color change is also $40 a piece

#

At least El pass lasts 3 months

quasi fern
#

job changing armor changes color changes all of that need to go away or be put into ep shop

#

oh man what's todays elsword event

#

jc ticket

#

what about everyone else

#

nothing

#

ok thanks

rose hedge
#

vital items like enhancement, IBs and such are just way too overpriced
why should i spend like $10 for 5 attempts at enhancement with such a small chance
it's like being handed a car with no wheels, and the only way to buy those is through some overpriced shop

#

it's not even pay for cosmetics anymore, it's literally "pay if you want a CHANCE to progress"

#

im also probably not gonna be using the atma stone fusion, what were they thinking when making that ED price? 9M ~ 20M to fuse? are you kidding me?

marble orbit
#

Improve Improve rng system... simple as that.
Mainly Enhancement and Ice Burners. Dunno about reforge, it looks kind of acceptable?
Just stop making your clients feel robbed. They give you money, give them something back in exchange, not just a "chance" for something.
Im just confident that the excess of rng and some low rates are the main culprit. Fight me

#

Same as some items mall items prices

#

I guarantee you, that if you lower some prices and improve the rng, you will get more money from your clients, it won't lead you bankruptcy at all

merry scaffold
#

I think it needs to be talked about and reminded more that this game has normalized spending $100 (burner or enhancement) and you can end up without a single improvement.

#

I cannot think of another mmo (that isn't dead in the ground) with a practice like that

ocean trail
#

The only thing i'm able to say about the terrible situation of the game is: do they (as in the developers) actually want to make this game better and fun or are we just playing pretend?
Because they know perfectly what are the problems and the solutions, like come on it's more than 10 years they're managing this game.
This thread shouldn't even have to exists.
Not only the game's problems, economical and others, should have been resolved AGES ago BY THEM and they still aren't, but even having the courage to ask players what are the problems and have us beg to solve them and give solutions, it's just...an enormous mockery and lack of respect.
And before anyone has the courage to say "but this is not a solution": yes it is.
The solution is THEY should solve the problems of THEIR game, without having to be begged to solve them and without asking players how, because it's THEIR game which was made terrible/managed awfully by THEM.
By asking players they're trying to shift the responsability of their bad work, and everyone of us should be quite tired of that.

ocean trail
#

Also, until there's certain proof that NA players feedback is actually taken into consideration even remotely as much as korean players one, any feedback "thing" has absolutely zero value.
And i'm sorry but the word of any staff member saying "don't worry, we told them" is not it.

rose hedge
#

i'll have to agree with logos here

scarlet pulsar
#

Completely agree, it all comes back to transparency which we never get. For all we know, an issue in NA only gets considered if it affects KR too, but if it only affects NA for all we know they can just be "does not affect anyone in KR must just be an NA issue, let's skip it".

merry scaffold
#

^ It makes it difficult to suggest anything when we don't know what kr would be ok with implementing, considering that their server economy is very different and much more volatile.

#

Most of the changes to IM would be NA only and I think that those are well overdue to be more player friendly.

hard bough
#

we couldn't even affect our own NA/INT-exclusive art contest lol
and tbh most of the things brought up in this topic have been discussed for years across different feedback channels, the item mall/rng problems have persisted for ages

merry scaffold
#

bruh

#

the art contests they went 1 step forward and then 2 steps back

obsidian ether
#

my suggestions are making trading between players easier and less penalized. itll also increase supply (theres demand, but supply/sellers are so burdened with expenses)
-remove the tax when trading ed
-market board vip contract (for no sales tax) should be per account not per character (long time since i used one, dont remember if it is account wide or not)
-reduce hanger price. make hangers only required for ice burner items. theres no reason item mall costumes requires both hanger + seal, thats almost $10 PER PIECE just to trade lol. would also help with selling accessories and boss drops (ECS, conversion ring, master road, ereda rings)
-house furniture seals should be removed entirely or required only for [special] pieces. normal pieces should not require a $4 seal. some of the one-tile tiny furniture value is realistically 50mil ed max, and no one is paying $4 for that. -- more older items will be put back into circulation, more players will be interested in decorating their house, more future house ice burner sales, win for everyone.
-some way to market hangered/unsealed/full sets things thats better than off-site google docs
-make exikel have a selling price. like tenebrous aura/amethyst can be sold to town npcs for 10k each (10mil per stack), why is exascale 0 ed and not the same value? yeah most players arent selling it to npc, but in the future they might (or some players, like me, want to sell it because im not building exa)

so many people have backed out of buying my furniture and item mall sets because the hanger+seal price is ridiculous. many ask to break my IM sets for hair+bottom+top because they dont want to buy hanger+seal for an invisible glove or shoe, and i cant blame them for that. but then it hurts me (seller) because what do i do with all these extra shoe+gloves? nothing. they'll sit and rot, like many other items in the game, because the price to put it for sale is way more than what i could make off it.

merry scaffold
#

I heavily agree on the hanger cost reduction, maybe we can have it in the EP shop too?

#

0% tax on market board vip is a mistake, in the past it was abused by merchants to resell items and increase prices of items beyond reasonable.

#

nobody likes ed trade tax, but it is healthy in the long run. Maybe it needs an adjustment. If you make it 0% past issues are going to return

obsidian ether
frozen tangle
#

I personally don't charge up with trades to recoup costs from tax, but I mainly follow trends when selling on board, so I'm affected by tax that way.

merry scaffold
#

I don't charge up to make up for that either, the issues were that ed sinks didn't do their job in kr and it lead to inflation. A generic sink that affects everyone and punishes resellers is fine to me. A person that has 10b in their pocket and at any point decide to buy out an item that isn't easily renewable and hike up the price by a little bit.

spring ferry
# exotic zenith Back when we had old market where we set up stalls, and didnt have market boards...

ED wipe wouldn't work. Rich people would just stock up in IBs and whatever can be sold later for high price.
Also, let's suppose Kog decides to implement control to market. Ok, set a min and max price for every single item, okay.

The same very rich elpeeps will control stock for most markets, wait demand, and sell the items through game-trade instead of the Board. Even if the game-trades are somehow limited, they can still exchange goods-for-goods instead of goods-for-ED.

The problem is in the currency itself, and cannot be solved. For as long as a currency exists, smart players will always have more wealth simply because that's how the game works, regardless of the rules.

#

Also suppose I have 32 IB pieces cause I bought a lot of'em before the wipe.
Now the min price for said IB piece is 100kk ED. At any moment I can just sink the market by placing 32 of the item at 100kk ED, force everyone else to place orders at 100kkED, and buy their items to concentrate the market even more, kek

exotic zenith
# spring ferry ED wipe wouldn't work. Rich people would just stock up in IBs and whatever can b...

The core of the issue is rather, the bigger the pool of available ED the bigger the price for the items in demand. With a lower overall server budget, it is less likely items would sell for 15 billion.
With bigger numbers, the less valuable ED per dungeon completed.

With what i mentioned in conjunction with a different market system i would rather see something different than what we have had for years. KC to ED rate was already 80~100:100 Back when Ara's EO set first launched. Eventually the market did drop by a lot, but now it is high again.

Thus, personally i rather see a centralized market with static min/max price instead of players going above the trade limit for a single item. It is easy to say "supply and demand, just increase the supply", but the question is will dispensing more items fix the Economy as a whole?

I do like the idea that KC prices overall should be reduced, but the only significant change i can think of is IB's going from 100 kc to 180, this is the reverse of what the players wish for. And as long as spenders keep on spending, there is less incentive for KoG to listen to our pleas for a cheaper item mall, or at least that is what i imagine, because KoG's transparency is not their strong side.

This server has been around since 2011, it has had a long time to accumulate a lot of ED, it is even harder to keep players to stay in Elsword, even harder to keep players who remains full f2p.

Repeating the same cycle and hope it will get better is crazy.

plain jolt
#

you'd need to convince kog to hire an in house econ team to manage the prices of things overall it just sounds like a massive hassle for too little payout

#

also really the only time any 'market control' has worked irl it tends to be a lot of a softer control than what you're suggesting

#

basically govts would hold reserves of certain essential items and if the supply is too low in the market to meet the demand, the govt would go into the reserves and put some no the market to help even it out

#

something like that in game would be like if everyone decided its suddenly time to use abyss stones and so everyone buys abyss stones out then kog themselves would put abyss stones on the market

#

and then when supply of essential items like certain types of mass produced crops in said country are too high in supply, the govt buys a portion of it to help farmers sell

#

but this would still require an in house econ team for kog which idt theyre willing to do

exotic zenith
#

Digital goods vs actual trade with different fees and taxes included are different. For example sanctions were made against a certain country because they decided to attack another country, which limited how much other countries were allowed to pay per barrel of oil, and it was decided so to limit their war funds. I hope you know what i am referring to.

#

That is why, game economy and real economy is different, neither is elsword a stock market. Whatever investment you do on Elsword, you will never be able to cash that in, unless you turn to a certain market known as RMT.

plain jolt
#

which people have been known to do especially when they believe they can get more value out for rmting than selling things in game

#

when you cap the price on a certain item

#

players will turn towards rmt

exotic zenith
#

Yes, but with each item trade being regulated in price you would still need to make a transaction of similar value for example if an apple a min price of 400 mil, that means you can not get it for free, you'd need to pay for 400mil at minimum. So even if i paid someone X$ and i paid someone X$ for the apple, i would still ned to trade him 400mil ingame.

#

And i know i stated last time but with different words maybe, that freedom of trading would be gone, because it means players can't borrow items from each other anymore.

#

And for people being able to do that, it is very much understandable to be against such an idea.

plain jolt
#

but once again that still requires kog to hire an in house econ team

exotic zenith
#

Yup, and i'm pretty sure we all know what the answer is to that.

plain jolt
#

and if you do not adjust prices of the items as the raw amt of ed flow in the server increases/decreases then

#

you end up with some really overvalued or undervalued prices at times making no one willing to farm said items

#

resulting in a lack of supply for said item

exotic zenith
#

?

plain jolt
#

sry meant supply

exotic zenith
#

That would be a headache for KoG's team to work with if they miraclously granted me my wish. Their latest effort/ED sink from what i can see is already a smashing success.

plain jolt
# obsidian ether my suggestions are making trading between players easier and less penalized. itl...

i wanted to say id love to see some of these changes but my hopes are not really high

  1. unfortunately ed tax on board is necessary to prevent aggressive board flipping as mentioned by someone else, not sure why it was implemented for normal trades? maybe someone else can comment on that
  2. vip being for the entire account would be a good change, not sure why it isnt a thing already
  3. would love to see cheaper hangers or hangers sold in ep shop at relatively cheap prices as mentioned by others, makes no sense for the hangers to be more expensive than the items at times
  4. id also like to mention that certain craftable items just dont make sense. why would i want to spend 5m ed for an unsealed rng colour/stat/direction circuit when im likely to spend more ed just trying to get a usable circuit rather than buying one off of someone else despite market prices being so inflated
exotic zenith
#

Look, i am not here to lay out a fully prepared blueprint how to fix something, i only shared my idea of what i rather see. The most common theme in my opinion is "Create the issue, sell the solution", generally speaking a company has no soul it does business.

We have asked for cheaper items for how long, easier enhancements and better IB pull rates being common. We got what we wished for, but at what cost? The company has the numbers and knows what the whales are willing to pay.

We got our enhancement pity, and how much does that cost?
We got our IB pity, and how much does that cost, and how much more expensive did it get?

And because enhancement prices per new item was not enough, we had reforge to go along with it.
Inbetween these things, what is being done to help players progress? Add ED sinks.
And to help with some ED sinks the 40$ battle pass offers coupons to reforge without ED cost, and it would not surprise me if we had a similar coupon for the new magic system in a future battle pass

As i just said, create issue and sell solution.

obsidian ether
quasi fern
#

Or remove hangers and seals entirely as the system is just kog double dipping on you trading aka getting some off the top.

#

No reason why we shouldn't be able to sell and trade items woth fear of increasing its value becuase of a system that they have in place just to put more needless costs on something that i remind you, you already paid for

obsidian ether
#

i completely agree with removing it entirely. i just don’t see that ever happening so i’ll accept a compromise

plain jolt
#

i can kinda see seals/seal counts existing to prevent players from just like mailing armor to eachother to let people try out/play diff chars for free

vocal idol
#

seals are there mostly to prevent people from just shuffling gear around like candy ye

#

I think theyre a necessary thing to have but god theyre way too expensive

plain jolt
#

i think we can keep seals and the seal counts a thing but lower the price of seals significantly

vocal idol
#

$6 to seal a unique grade item is absurd and I do think contributes to prices especially for items like Chips

plain jolt
spring ferry
#

please lower the price of seals significantly....

vocal idol
#

but chips should dropped sealed anyway

lyric grove
#

if chips are dropped sealed, they need to be tunable sealed...

obsidian ether
#

yeah chip price is inflated by seal/kc prices for sure. $6 + whatever the chip actually costs

calm wedge
#

I think cosmetics of any type should not need seals at all, we already have hangers to up the price of fashion
And any type of drop should also drop sealed
A price reduction for both hangers and seals would be a good idea too

tight cliff
#

Imo we should buff ED Farm, in dungeons where bots dont reach 👍

plain jolt
#

im p sure atp people can setup bots to pretty easily run any dng that isnt a raid

#

which brings me to ask why raids dont drop much of value

tight cliff
#

if u buff 10mil+ dungeons, like 20-3, not only u be farming circuits and also ED, i dont think bots gonna gear themself to farm as 4 in a dungeon...
even if bots get to 20-3, they need to be really geared to make it worth, otherwise whats the point?
ppl well geared will just farm it on their own with good timers and call it a day 🤔

merry scaffold
#

entry requirements can be circumvented (according to someone that knows a lot more how they operate than me, take it as hearsay)

#

raids have some special protection on them from what I know, that should be expanded to regular dungeons too. I don't see why we don't have it.

tight cliff
#

Any news on this Raiden? :D

lunar lily
#

One thing that can help is to undo the ed nerfs to secret dungeons and return them back to their day one drop numbers and increase the newer secret dungeons that came out after the older ones ed drops that would help a lot for players who can't run the newer stuff and are struggling to even upgrade their stuff. Also banning bots would help as most of the items being sold in came are clearly sold by a bot.

quasi fern
#

The sd dungeons didnt get nerfed for NAs sake it was nerfed cause it effected krs eco. I dont picture them undoing the nerf because of what was stated prior and to top that off we always copy paste from kr anyways dispite our economy being different. no matter what as kog clearly through their actions show they dont care to balance solely around NA

merry scaffold
#

They are releasing another SD soon

#

An update since atma release has had time to do a few things:

  • ED value has increased by around 25%
  • +11 amulets can be found on the board again, just barely at 10b
  • regardless of ED value increasing IB accessories keep increasing in price, even with a firework event active
    The conclusion is simple, pity is not doing the job it is supposed to be doing
exotic zenith
#

Maybe if the pity wasn't so high to begin with.

tight cliff
#

But it is true that if ibs went back to be 100kc would help a lot too

#

We got 160kc and it doesnt even make sense, since it was to match Koreas economy and not our

rose hedge
#

there was literally no reason for the price increase

merry scaffold
gleaming valley
#

I think

#

Money acquisition is fine

#

it's how much players are able to demand from each other for anything

fresh shore
#

I think a simple way to increase the in game economy is by increasing the drop chance of important items or making them shared bankable
A good example i can give is baryon fur it cost a ton of ed for someone like me who 5 m cp and i would never buy it even if i can because i still need to save ed for ib and reforge
increasing the drop chance would lower the price and making it shared bankable would make it a 1 time investment

exotic zenith
#

Increase drop rates on year old items is only temporary and won't fix the economy overall, just to make an example, if drop rate of baryons fur averaged to 1 drop every 3 runs, that won't make KC related items any cheaper neither will it make raid items any cheaper such as mystics/chips/circuits.

While it does help people in the lower levels progress, it will only get worse from there, a lot worse.

In reverse for people wishes to help improving the economy, our Secret Dungeons rewards was instead nerfed, and eventually we will get a new Secret Dungeon which less players will be able to access for better rewards.

I know people likes to express the idea of making KC items cheaper, or gain more KC for money spent, and guess what, Ice burners increase from 100 to 160 kc.

In my opinion, the market as a whole needs a complete overhaul, a whole new model, but to me it's hard to believe KoG would go to such extent, and a lot of people are afraid of change and rather keep as is.

fresh shore
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I believe that increasing item drops will also help with people being able to afford kc items because even if the kc items dont change in price the players themselves have more items they can farm for or buy because it help with moving money throughout the game

Of course me putting baryons fur is kinda a bad example and a better example would be something that you need alot of like mystics stones

As for the kc shop i think they can get people to spend by selling some buffs something like that drop rate coin from henir and nothing too major but make it cheap so people that originally dont spend on the game could feel tempted becuase if you look at ib and see how many you could possibly need it will turn small spender off but smaller stuff is easier to sell maybe make it something like 50 kc for a 12 hrs medal and with people spending money on the smaller stuff they can afford to make things in the shop cheaper

merry scaffold
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drop fur once every 100 runs
sell it for 500m
each run is 5m profit
buff drop rate
now fur drops every 10 runs
prices drops down to 50m
each run is 5m profit
after about a week the price drops even further because the demand has lowered since everyone can farm for it
price drops even further
fur farming is dead now

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This has happened in the past with varnimyr accessories, that place used to be a very viable farming spot for early/midgame players and they killed it by increasing the drop rates too much

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Elsword's market is not big enough to buff drop rates, mystics are already half the price of the ed fee you need to pay to even use them. And there is no item in the game that has a demand that big to warrant buffing drop rates even further. CoH/ECS only received buffs because they saw the demand would spike with atma (literally everyone would want a mandala, including supports because the CP gain is just taht big).

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If you want smoother progression for people too stupid to get get greedy and equip drop rate in erp, there can be better solutions such as one time per account rewards.

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But as always KC prices/availability is the problem. We talked about that excessively in this thread already