#Combat Power Feedback

177 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

crude tiger
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Wait what? There's no event for this...

But this is something specific I want to talk about because I know it's something the community has focused on and I want to have a round table discussion for it. So let's talk about Combat Power, from the issues, all of them, to resolutions that can be done.

I know people might have some ideas that are simple in nature but let's also keep our heads a bit grounded and focus on what is possible and manageable for everyone involved (Players, KOG, and the Game itself). I know people love getting the Free +11 VOS and +10 Tenebrous Set, but giving out freebies like those as if they were free samples at your local supermarket may not be the best course to take, especially in quick succession.

So let's look into realistic solutions. 🙂

desert vault
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I know cp is used as a gating mech, but honestly, the CP for later dungeons is pretty absurd. Once again, The Great Steel Wall requiring 6.67m cp when it's a support title is really ridiculous. And once again, were looking at a 700 title count title. At least with plegas, you could easily shove a bunch of alts in.

Another example is the new raid. Stage 3 for the new raid is a lot! Yes, its supposed to be harder, but 12.35m, while expected, is just making things really ridiculous...my flame lord with full +11 r21 s5 soa and full espc can inflate to 12.65m, and I'm at erp 438. I'm willing to bet that me over socketing on crit also helps a ton. I can't imagine funding another character to get that much cp because it just costed so much. I'd like to hear from other supports on how they inflate this much? Did they have to full +11 everything?

How about the next region?

Maybe a solution could be lowering cp reqs to getting into dungeons, or giving players easier ways to inflate cp without sacrificing sockets?

modern ibex
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I've noticed that with the progression of the game, with how artifact accessories have been given, artifact EXP has been neglected.

maiden quail
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Change phrou guide not to give +10 foj and rig gear anymore that stuff is defunct. give out a +10 Vos with +9-10 tenebrous armor with the half shadow identities cause i know you guys like to sell the perfect ones on the bp

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oh here is a big one REVAMP ERP instead of selling the solution to it

modern ibex
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There's quite a setback from the required artifact exp needed for new players and alternate characters in order for them to catch up

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I think we need to change the EXP tables for artifacts to help out new players and alternate characters

plucky dust
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just either make it easier to inflate cp for supports OR lower the cp requirement for serp dungeons

nimble rover
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Lower CP Requirement + Revamp on ERP. Theres no doubt that the CP Req on the new dgs are absurd

twin obsidian
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if nothing else combat power values should be adjusted to better represent stats players actually want in 2024
imo this would actually make it easier to "inflate"

past yarrow
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Accessibility wise CP itself is somewhat fine if you look at it slowly and objectively. getting to 99 into elrianode with growth gear regardless of ones ERP is fine and manageable, following along with professor pho as well is a very big hand holder along the way.
Deviation comes about until you drop your FoJ which isnt too bad, and once more professor pho saves a life there, then we get rigo gear and youre alright for the time being
you make the effort to get erp overtime on the lower levels so it doesnt feel too bad, and your spare weapon quickly becomes an exp set. Drop a VoS and its a little rough for enhances but you make due with mats or spending and you work around.

Issues to a degree come in at the first roadhill leaving pruinaum going to outskirts. starting off this is a very hard bump to crawl past, its why this event now with the +11 VoS and tene event really help pushed alot of the starter players to get going. So id say thats fine, and in reforging and refining your tene gear progress can be made to get to abyss with some trouble but not too much if youre patient, and right after to monatera

However the stopgap from the end of monatera to serpentium being 7m to 9m (if you include wall) is a hard detriment i wont even try to sugar coat it. harconiums alone and stages on your SoA arent enough to meet up against that CP wall. and cases where some chars receive their crit/maxi or phys/mag passives through a buff (mostly the crit maxi honestly) also works against them as thats values not contributing to their CP but working towards their character.

The earlier it is, the CP thresholds dont seem too bad but the deeper you go, the harder it is to make due progress with such diminishing returns on most elements

wintry dawn
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instead of relying on handouts, an improvement to the enhancement system means that the average player doesn't need to be given a free +11 weapon and everything else
as it stands you pretty much need +11 everything to enter the newest raid, yet +11 enhancement is still a big struggle for most people. that's why the +11 weapon was such a massive event for a lot of players. but now +11 is no longer a nice to have, it's quite literally a requirement.

reforging being the rng paywall is also hard for people to overcome

but these are all things that have been discussed to death
the pity being too harsh at this point, the lack of ways to obtain the paid materials needed to progress (enhancement materials and chlorites) outside of just paying up, all end up making it hard to reach these increasingly difficult thresholds

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i mean, i would agree combat power could be reworked to better reflect more of the actual stats people care about (i.e. why does awakening duration matter so much currently? it doesn't), and that erp can be changed too (to what extent, i don't know)
but i think the base of the problem is really the brutal rng paywalled systems being enhancement and reforging

normal yacht
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hope that the secret dungeon exp grind will be implemented to boost other players cp (right now the exp grind dungeons are 15-3 and tricky house

granite stirrup
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I dont know anybody that grinds 15-3 or Tricky for EXP

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it's Trosh Nest, 16-2, and Shadow Earl's Castle usually

dull kraken
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It's very frustrating to see that even support are needing almost dps level of gear and some CP inflation to progress in the game

modern scarab
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Bro Serpentium CP req is too high. What this does is making healers rare in the endgame. Not to mention CP doesn't measure actual strength accurately.
Considering this game and especially raids and endgame dungeons are barely playable without healers, u guys should have figured out that this move is killing ur own game. Look I know that the KR elitists pushes for even higher CP req so that only the top 1% can run the endgame. But don't u realize how stupid that is?
And now u guys wanting new players to join in, which is good. But at the same time, they're gonna quit once they hit the CP wall that is Serpentium. History repeats itself as they say, this is how ppl quit from getting stuck behind Pruinaum Outskirts back then.
I'm speaking as sum1 who has enough CP to enter Serpentium Raid Stage 3. Even if we can enter the raid, barely any healers can enter it, making party forming a lot more hellish that it needs to.
Now lets talk about CP inflation... Ideally speaking. CP should be accurate in determining ur Combat Power aka ur strength in combat. But the fact that u have to scam the game to do that is just silly to me. This itself should be clear enough that CP is not a good system to determine crucial things such as who should and shouldn't enter the new dungeons.
As a sidenote, about the equipment requirement, I honestly dislike this cuz I know u guys are gonna use this as a device to force players to build whatever endgame gears, regardless of whether or not the players need it. What will happen to players with full +11 r21 Rigo sage gear? They dont need stupid Tene to enter Serpentium and be a good support there.

native pebble
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The CP requirements stink. It’s almost impossible to find enough people with the proper CP to clear dungeons.

steady latch
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Also CP doesn't necessarily mean strong characters, because you can artificially increase CP by enchanting with certain enchants that lose effectiveness at higher levels (crit%, maximize%, etc.)

jolly escarp
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Getting 300 erp can be pretty hard. We have events that boost exp gain for under 300 erp players, but they can be very far apart at times.
But even at 300 erp depending what class u are playing u still don't have enough.
Cuz at 300 u pretty much have to invest at least 200 in adapt and asd and ideally the last 100 into cdr because the game became a button mash simulator if u want to do damage or keep up buffs.
In Berthe u might get away not having 300, but once u are preparing for abyss that luxury gets erased.
So imo the dungeon erp column needs a revamp/points reduction if kog is expecting players to progress into the abyss stage of the game w/o burning out at some point.

jolly escarp
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Reforge and enhancement are also issues that contribute to the cp problem.

+9 pretty much gives no bonus stat now, but your gear can still break trying to get to there.
The pity gauge is a nice safety net to have, but what are we considering a reasonable timeline for players to clear it?
Cuz rn there's a bottleneck happening on players cuz they need a +11 on their raid weapon to overcome the big region cp jumps. If they are a dps class that +11 might also count towards their armor.
Kog needs to find a better balance between the pay to progress and f2p enhancement clicks.
If that includes letting the weekly enhancement materials increase the pity bar even more idk.

At least for NA, I would say the prices of amulets floating around in the trade economy is also having an impact.

The prof pho rigo gear can get u pretty far cp-wise. I have crossed the 300 erp bar long ago so my reliance on reforging it for cp has gone down quite awhile ago, so I can't really speak on much there. The ariel +10 amulets are doing some of the legwork tho. Also the fact that I know that I'm better off using seeds to improve my tene gear isn't helping the desire to reforge on rigo.

Tene's reforge not getting adjusted with the new gear's release is asking for trouble when it comes to having players accessing the new region.

Which again isn't helped by the fact that seed drops are basically a myth and there still being no seed weekly or month quest. The few players get from battle pass isn't going to cut it.

undone inlet
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CP is nothing but a number that increases exponentially and does not represent the power of a character, only an estimation of what the character is.

For example a +11 stage 5 SoA user will be in the range of ~5~13m CP depending on class, ERP, armor, accessories and costumes

While to a lesser extent i think it is useful (not good) to have CP be a requirement to access dungeons, what other solution can there be?

Right now most of the later content with "random parties" is arranged through party finder. That being said, if you are a 2.5m CP Immortal, assuming the CP requirement for dungeons was removed.

It's safe to say nobody will expect that person to be able to deal any damage starting Ran raid.
It is likely the person who starts the party finder will look for another DPS who is better equipped.

I can understand that people would argue and say "what about the supports", but it would just be unfair for the DPS characters that they cannot access content as fast a support characters.

In a vacuum nobody should be punished for the character they pick in a video game, but at least it puts DPS and Supports on common ground in terms of progression. (DPS still being a heavier investment than Support)

I do think Tenebrous should be standardized reward from phoru quest, and +10 VoS.

If the goal is to keep newer players to catch up with endgame, even +11 FoJ is way too outdated/redundant, even if being given a VoS, players are still subjected to farm Berthe raid, which is still a large task unless they have friends willing to help out.

As for armor, Tenebrous Should be the new standard, Rigomor armor is how many years old, and Elsword's design does not even offer proper guidance on how to form a functional party.

With that in mind its in my opinion that this should be dispensed from for guide. for the extra boost in damage.

The phoru reward could be +10 vos, +9 tenebrous r12
punch event could be +11 vos +10 tenebrous r15
battlepass offering tenebrous r18 ticket

undone inlet
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It should not be a thing to teach players "wait for an event before you give Elsword a try"

granite stirrup
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I think the biggest brick wall (or should I say... Steel Wall) to CP is definitely enhancement, you basically are deadweight with a +9 and reaching 5m CP for Abyss or 7m for Wall with a +10 is an incredible chore to only again still be deadweight. As mentioned earlier in this thread it creates a massive bottleneck as players (f2p especially) have to wait for the weekly quest for MAYBE 5 chances to enhance every week (or every other week if your 1 restoration scroll gets used up). All that does is create unnecessary frustration which will cause casual players to just... go find something else to play that respects players time more

thorny spruce
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I also want to said even with paying, the enhacing and reforge cost still cost an absurb amount of money...

40 seeds from r18 to r21(which are requirements to enter Serpe dung, which have absurb high cp) each armor piece. The amount of click for +11 SoA and +11 some piece of tenebous to enter new region...

I totally "love" my bill after that

main atlas
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with all being due, i seriously have no idea why KoG decide to "double inflate" the CP requirement.... the CP difference between past regions are all within 1 to 2m CP.... so i was kinda expecting Serpentium to be following the 7m of Steel Wall while maybe Raid can be 8 to 9m since there is no new weapon....

BUT they just decide to inflate it all the way to 10m..... SMH

We are not like the Koreans who really invest all-out into MMOs.... the average CP of most supports here are only 8m+

brazen herald
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So... CP, to start, although the system is flawed it's still better than item level

But to talk about the main problems, I would say they boil into a few things:

  1. status distribution and what counts or not towards CP - I don't think overslotting stats should give you lots of CP just because it's critical or maximize. That encourages inflation instead of real investment to deal dmg! It also doesn't make sense that awakening or additional damage give you more CP than something like countinous dmg (which is like, a premium dmg increasing stat that if I'm not mistaken, does not give CP at all)

  2. CP "walls" between regions keep on getting more and more ridiculous - when CP was first implemented, just doubling the requirements from one region to the next one was fine, because it still was low values you could get just fine without needing high enhancement. Then, we reached 1m mark in pruinaum and things went downhill. Let's be frank, there’s no reason outskirts should be 3m to enter. Those dgs aren't that hard even at the bare minimum CP. We actually need a CP revision of every dungeon after pruinaum! It feels awful to get CP-gated just because you lack a +11 to reach that value. Currently, we have at least 4 CP walls that are gonna be a pain to deal with: tirnog (3m), abyss (5m), wall (7m), serpentium/serpentium raid (9m/10m+). Those CP jumps are awful for progression because you get stuck in those chokepoints for months and the only fast way to get over them is enhancement. Once again, f2p and low spenders take the loss

  3. Enhancement and reforge are key points to CP - if you're a dps, a +11 is the bare minimum to deal dmg. Supports usually have it easier with having lower CP, but with how the requirements keep on scaling in an absurd manner, soon they will also need to have r21 +11 perfect gear too. But considering that chlorites don't drop and how expensive those are in the market, having a full r21 set is very very expensive.

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Enhancement weekly quest should just be called biweekly with how it works. It takes you 2 weeks to try with an awfully high pity and we get 5 tries only (if it doesn't break in the first attempt and get to sit on those fluorites another week). Enhancement has always been expensive, but the problem gets worse if the bare minimum to play dgs keep on increasing over time. At first it was +9, then +10, now it's +11. I fear for the day a +11 won't be enough anymore

digital rover
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one is too hands off and the other is too hands on

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one gives near zero direction and the other limits all creative freedom

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and both get screwed by trash systems like enhancement

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and honestly cp problem is also a content problem because they waited 8 years to even pretend to care

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everything has bled into everything else now

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if they had pretended to care even as far into it as rigo then maybe things would have been salvageable without going to extremes

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and even then might have been too late already

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we definately hit singularity at MR tho

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no matter what

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thats when the real crazy jumps started happening

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and those you cant just "undo"

vestal carbon
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Enhancement and CP go hand in hand. The biggest problem is that you can't enhance if you don't have the materials and the materials you only find them in the item mall or buy them from the board at insane prices. And the item mall prices are pretty high tbh, I mean look at the restoration scrolls prices...you need to pay if you want to progress in this game. It's not fair to have the most required materials in this game (enhancement materials and reforging materials) hiding behind the paywall. The pitty bar takes to long and you need to spend a lot of materials to fill it, weekly quest gives almost nothing. I'm trying for 3 months to enhance my alt's weapon to +11 using the weekly materials and still nothing. Everything about Elsword resumes at spending money and more money. Off topic: What other game sells a hair color palette that you can't even choose the color you want because..hey...it's RNG...you need to sped more money if you want to get the color you want.

digital rover
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too many parts that need adjusting sadge

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they waited too long

digital rover
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which is litterally the same corporate overlords dragging this game to hell (at least i hope its them and not kog itself)

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cuz ye maplestory i think also has that

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but again nexon

desert vault
# brazen herald So... CP, to start, although the system is flawed it's still better than item le...

I highly agree with everything said here, too. My demersio doesn't need a +11 because I only plan on using them to support, yet I'm gated out of dungeons because I dont have the money to get a +11 to cp boost. Heavens forbid I have to enh any other armor piece to reach serpentium raid, I'm hoping that just r21 is enough. It will take forever, but its at least doable if I use up secret dungeon ed on chlorites (if we're going to lock progress behind reforging, for the umpteenth time, give a weekly for chlorines and increase the drop rate. How many suggests need to be made before this reasonable ask becomes a reality?)

austere python
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I'm still fairly "low-level" (have roughly 107 ERP and only recently got my first character to Berthe raid) so maybe my opinion doesn't count as much since I haven't had direct experience with the later raids and armor/wep systems yet, but I do think it's not a great sign that I'm only motivated to come back to the game whenever there's some kind of jump event.
Even with the current punch master quests, I'm still struggling to break 3mil CP for outskirts, and that's with spending all my time grinding on a single character.

I don't have endless time and resources to pour into increasingly diminishing returns, and it's disheartening to hear from more experienced players that the process is only going to get more intensive and convoluted from here.
As strictly F2P, I can't even imagine trying to get into the current endgame with my main. Raising alts is entirely out of the question at this point too, because I simply can't afford to build them to satisfy the increasingly absurd requirements.

wanton brook
jolly escarp
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Cont. dmg does give cp. I'm going have to ask @modest stirrup to verify that tho since I can't tell if that top line change was done before or after jc + if the difference was noticed when banking the tene to his alt.

austere python
modest stirrup
visual sable
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new dungeon is announced with 15m cp requirement :) at this rate no one would be able to do it because there will be little to 0 support being able to make it

maiden quail
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The ib update they were planning on doing needs to happen now

jolly escarp
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I get why you say that, but that still very much in cause the issue, sell the solution territory

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and it isn't a very good solution imo

desert vault
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really hurts people who have supports as alts like me...

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i made a support alt cuz they are cheap to invest in

id have to spend on multiple expensive ibs and basically build my dem up like a dps just to reach cp gates?

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=/

dull kraken
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It's really disgusting how they come around and gain support for the IB-only slots just by adding high CP entry

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All according to plan I guess

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It's very frustrating that they're not putting any thoughts for the low spenders

analog vector
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This could be totally wrong, but I think part of this high cp req came from some of KR players' mindset. From what I read on forum, they really don't want people cheesing or grinding mats via low investment alts.

I personally do not agree with this sentiment, but it also sounds reasonable enough to result in this.

heavy hinge
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Ok, not evolving by alts is reasonable, but it's a game with 15 characters and 60 classes. Rarely someone will play with ONLY one class and chara. I'm pretty sure KoG want us to appreciate more than one class (we clearly need buffs in some of them to do that, tho)

Like, are we supposed to pay so much to grind all of them? Grinding and upgrading one of them already costs a lot for +11 equipment, +11 weapon, reforge, good IBs (which in NA and mostly INT it's almost unbearable, as a good one costs like, 10 to 15B to get a decent acc combo)...

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Think about what the current META is for accessories, which is part of the path to get 15m CP to get into the new D4 Raid

Bro, I'm not coping with paying that much ED and I'm not risking my luck, which is low, to try to get the combo and upgrade my CP just to get 15m

F2P are almost left out of this

wintry dawn
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So how many people can meet the 15m entry requirements without a +12? Are we really creating content around +12s now? : )

desert vault
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i think theyre keeping in mind the exascale armor, but its not like they made that any easier to obtain

desert vault
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apparently, the bn + ta combo inflates a lot, but its just too much money for me to even consider

maiden quail
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You take atleast 300-500k combat loss

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Not perfected of course but it's a work in progress

modern scarab
maiden quail
modern scarab
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oh ig rf diff then assuming u had full +11 and r21 tene prior to transitioning

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cuz I heard Exa gives u a lot of cp

maiden quail
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Is it stronger then tenebrous yes. Combatpower wise not really ill ha e to wait till I hit r21 full and of course get more T slot circuits

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And when Nexon decides they want to make it so you can perfect chips

modern scarab
maiden quail
cinder gull
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Well Combat Power comes down to chlorite seeds, Ice Burner Sets, resonance level, forces, mystics, stats (dungeon accessories, artifacts, tenebrous lines or blessed time and space, random effects) and enhancement. The dungeon portion has low drops and everything else is behind paywall. Only harmony offers a tiny relief with useful items or dungeon rewards, but year round attendance events are consumables or magic wardrobe accs.

I was able to reach a little over 12MCP with a support with +9r21 tenebrous +11Submergence weapon. Abyss mystics, chlorite seeds, perfecting stats, artifacts were the most important. I have collection, synergy and high resonance that helped. Now the new difficulty 4 raid was announced and no way can I reach that CP. I was told head hunter challenge forces gives a lot of CP, but I haven't participated in those because it's very punishing and the community is toxic when it comes to new players raiding. If I wanted to skip this, I would have to enhance armor and find a costume suit with good stats.
Harmony doesn't even give a chance to get the original stat costume suit.

Many parties will struggle to find party members. There's still a lot of RNG with artifacts and others related stats, abyss mystics and giants, and low drops for useful dungeon items. Ignore defense rocks boost CP, those are super rare items too.

maiden quail
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Challenge mode has only been ran by ppl that know others in no way shape or form can you even form a random party around it without knowing ppl

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Just trying to form for serp dailies take about on average 15-30 mins

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They refuse to add a weekly for seeds. They keep adding more stats that make it worse and worse if you don't have the current ib literally it's such a power difference you might have not even dps'd to begin with

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If a support doesn't have wall title past ran raid ppl look at them like they're nuts despite that hidden behind a 700 run p2w title

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It is only by statics alone that raids get completed

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That shouldn't always be the case

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It promotes us vs them and the exclusion of others just because you're not known to them

cinder gull
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I've been there serpent daily struggle to find party, the need for players to get exagreen for raid and even during harmony old players insulting the inexperienced about harmony consumables. I agree with the us vs them exclusion.

desert vault
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Me wondering if I should wait another 20m for a support to apply for 20-1 dailies or if I should just duo with the other dps

jolly escarp
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time waiting vs time brute forcing w revive stones

desert vault
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Maybe if they nerfed the dmg dealt itd be bareable

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And how much it moves

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But noooo

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🤡

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Sometimes I just skip dailies cuz it's just that annoying

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We won't have those steaks forever, that's when things are gonna get really annoying

vestal carbon
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As an Elsword fan for years I'm already getting tired of this game and how difficult and expensive everything has become lately. You can barely solo Serpentium dungeons even with a +12 SoA and with the new raid it's difficult to form a party. It takes hours or even days to form a party for S3 or you can even skip a week or two if you can't find people to run with. The CP should be removed (or reduced for later content) at this point cause it's getting ridiculous...15 mil CP for latest raid??? I'm almost 16 mil as a DPS with +12 SoA, 4/4 +11 R21 Tene, NF title and 480 ERP...How will a support get to 15 mil CP???. This used to be a fun game in the past but now it became a joke that cause a lot of stress to players with the amount of money we have to spend, the time we have to spend grinding nonstop for materials and ERP, the new armor that seems impossible to complete and forming a raid party when there're only a few supports in this game with enough CP to enter.

granite stirrup
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it's also a massive turn-off for new/f2p players once they realize the amount of grinding theyd have to do to reach those points without spending hundreds of dollars

steel cipher
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My 2 cents are likely 2 things. 1 they mentioned that CP isnt as accurate as it should and they acknowledge it, so im hoping they fix the calculations on these. 2nd is +11 is too much of a steep requirement, especially when going from 8 to 9 causes a 20% break, and getting +11 even as a dolphin player is not easy. And since the game is heavily CP gated, there should be more ways to increase cp, an ERP revamp could be nice- more adaptation from erp would help new players push funds on enhancing instead of scourging every last crumb of adapt they can get just to be able to run Abyss

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Could we reward more active players some more chances to enhance their gear? Reward them just for staying in the game? Like a daily quest currency to exchange into enhancement materials would be great

modern scarab
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Its nice that they make cmode playable for more players

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I think. I havent tried any yet tho

visual sable
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Even with good pc some are still suffering fps drop, its the game issue

desert vault
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It's really such a shame enhancement gives so much co.

I've built my dem without spending much, if any, money, and I'm hard cp locked. I'm planning to use my weekly sd money for chlorites. Dem has been stuck on +9 for about 5 months now. Ive been using the free enh mats, but nothing.

I don't want to/don't have time to spend in game farming concert, PVP, and heroics, and I'm already dedicating my SD money to chlorites...

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I'll try to get 550 erp and r21, but those are a longways ahead for me. I'm at 44.44% pity on my +9 soa, I think. The rates are just awful 🤣

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It's a miracle I can even enter wall, I'm cp locked out of serp

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Not to say reforge rates aren't pure cancer either, though. A 10% chlorite seed does almost nothing with how many clicks it requires =/

visual sable
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With all due respect, you play an MMORPG game and dont want/dont have time and/or money to invest into it and expecting a major progression? speechless

desert vault
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Well no, I'm doing all I can

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I don't things should just be handed, but it's honestly so much, and all for a support

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I didn't really have a problem with funding FL cuz she's a dps

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But the fact that I need so much cp to enter CP gates on a support is really cringe

visual sable
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The fact that cberthe requires 6m cp and d3 requires 13m cp is insane

desert vault
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My fl can't even get into d4

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And she has +11 r21 everything

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It's not like I mind farming, but the next cp inflators in line are expensive ibs

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I heard mpr inflated CP a good bit, but 550 erp shouldn't be the springboard point

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Only masochists get that much

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And also, I know they aren't in control of the economy, but +11s being 12b and those ib combos often being upwards of 15b is really demotivating

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Idk how many hours of concert that is, but it's definitely overkill

reef geyser
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I haven't minded CP before, in fact i like it somehow. However, the cp jump in Serpentium is just ridiculous. Na doesnt has as many players and whales as KR, not everyone had a nice rng to get a +12.
In my case and many others as supports, you can hit the CP by inflating with equipments but have to change inside dungeon every time to run an optimal support set, which is getting too annoying now.
I understand that they want players to actually bring geared characters, to actually fight and not leech, but 13m and 15m is just too much, 2m cp jump why?
You can argue that Spirit Challenger fixes that too (that you need ONLY 6m cp to participate), but how many parties do cBerthe 156? How many SC so far in game? iirc kog said that they dont want to force challenge into the main progression, being an optional feature... Well 15m gg, seems like it will be now, another lie.
Idk why so much paywall and rng behind every new content released.
Don't come telling me "just do D1/D2" because we all know they are bad, barely any reward. As a player, you want to play the very end content and best rewards.

Im trying so hard to be positive and do things before judging, but man this is getting tougher and tougher, rng is not the only enemy now, im not as blessed to be a big whale.

maiden quail
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if someone actually believed that for a second challenge was optional they're daft anytime you put even the smallest boost behind something like challenge mode it is no longer optional

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it was coping on their side as they didnt wanna just admit that they wasted 1.5-2 years of dev time on content the players werent going to run because of the drop rates

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no guarantee you would get the forces and you had to run with ppl outside your static to even get the force aka help other players run the content too but why is tjhat isnt it optional why do people have to go out of their way to clear ppl because it wasnt from the outset they just wanted to time gate ppl so ppl would continue to log in welp only the worst offenders of consume product and then be happy about the next product to consume did this raid

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just to get a force no doubt

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lmao optional being cope for we dont respect players time and only till there is new content are we uping the standard to what it should've been at launch

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funny thing is they nerfed the challenge raids to entice ppl and that still didnt work now they are dropping the facade and just up and saying yep it's no longer optional you got us guys

visual sable
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Well I also have a lot of disagreement towards cp system, but lets look at it in a different way. If we remove the cp system, what should be used to replace it? In other words, what are the solutions for the cp issue atm?

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I think it’s pretty safe to reduce the cp requirement of d1/2/3 down to 9/10/11m cp. Atm im not entirely sure how much cp is needed for d4 to clear optimally, but its pretty safe to say putting d3 at 11m cp is a good mark.

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At 11m cp, +11 dps in d3 can use Freed Shadow and still enter the dungeon (actual requirement will be 10m4), instead of using Natural Flow or BnW.

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Or, again, buffing the cp via passive similar to what we have when Abyss raid came out. But theyve already done this once, there is little to no room left in the passive to transfer stat.

reef geyser
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imo cp as measurement might be fine, but they could also add ERP to the requirements. It's been base level 99 requirement for ages that now it's irrelevant.
^ But ye, reducing CP requirement for serp would be nice. I mean if you invested in programming a new raid, you want players to play it right? Huge CP wall won't let them, specially when it comes to supports, D3 has a healer shortage already

analog vector
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Having seen the full 20-5 D4 clear run on YT, 15m is definitely NOT an understatement. So I think at least this number for that difficulty is justified (DPS wise at least, doesn't change the fact that CP calculation in itself is problematic). Still agreed that D3 CP should be lowered though. Maybe around 12m.

undone inlet
reef geyser
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oO 15m cp totally achievable with +9 ye
im struggling hard too then. We should eb doing 30 mins runs and 2 hour gauntlets ig

undone inlet
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it was said before ran raid was a thing, so its old, but still, try DPS ran raid on your chase after SoA drop, +9 vos and +9 tenebrous

wintry dawn
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I think there's a specific problem contributing to high cp requirements
Aside from what was already mentioned weeks ago being rng pay walls with enhancement/reforging/IBs: too many people have +12s now
Compare to like 2-3 years ago when it would be a rarity to see a +12, now sometimes I sit around in Magmelia and inspect people's gear and literally half of the people in the channel have a +12 weapon. This obviously boosts cp but also just the strength of these players.

Now you're left with a good chunk of players that are stronger than the average (+11) player. This is probably why they implemented different difficulty levels for the new raid, because they suddenly have a pretty large gap in players that have avg gear and players that are "overgeared"; they still want most people to enter the new raid but they don't want all the +12s with optimal IB setup #3821 to immediately steamroll it. But there's little incentive to run the lower difficulties so people are still pushing for higher cp (an abyss like system here would've worked, where lower difficulty gets less progress towards something guaranteed but still progress).
I think it's gotten to be a pretty bad cycle of kog creating high requirements (cp and what, the timer in challenge?) and then players pushing to meet those requirements. All it does is push the ceiling higher and higher. The playerbase is dwindling as a result and the people left over are the ones who committed to those high requirements, and that becomes who they make content for.

I don't even think a complete rework of CP will fix this because you still have a problem of the disparity in gear. I mean at this point lowering the cp requirement is the best way to get more people in, so yeah that should at least help with... you know, actually letting people play the game.
but I think their problem is trying to create content that can cater to these highly invested players.

digital rover
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not saying they dont have problems but its probably alot easier to ignore them there

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and if they are then so is kog ... and that trickles down to nothing changing over here

granite stirrup
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also Korea doesnt have an issue with whaling

digital rover
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they are also pumping KC into the market for free monthly

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with all their events

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so it usually ballances out all their inflation problems

undone inlet
digital rover
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actually no

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i take that back

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i distinctly remember erp pages being 26$ usd

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over there

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which is like 8$ cheaper

open stratus
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Phoru

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Just make this the baseline in 2 years when we figure out the current raid.

chrome plume
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reduce the rngfest that is minmaxing stat rolls in both artifacts, and tenegear. not only do we have to find the right effect, it also needs to be the right number, and in artifact's case, also the proper COLOR. That is so bad for anyone and everyone involved, except the whales that can sell a bunch of stuff and just power through the ed costs.

At least, make us able to enhance the given effect. instead of having to reroll artifact effects, let us spend fragments to up the values to the max possible stat. NOT WITH REROLLS ON THE NUMBER, but in a reforge like notion. turn the 'i have to roll 3 things at once' to 'i got the stat and color i want, now to level it up'.
Same with tene. let us spend aura, tasma and even tene fragments so pieces will still have a use

modern scarab
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15M on D4 really?

open stratus
modern scarab
open stratus
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._.

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Good thing I'm not a PvE main.

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LOL

modern scarab
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eh I only run d1 weekly. or d2 at best. Still can get chips though

open stratus
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Fair.

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Im barely 5.5CP so I'm not even going to bother just yet

modern scarab
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ye u can focus on abyss first

maiden quail
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dont feel bad im 15mill combat but cannot find buffers to even attempt to run the raid

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also why run an hour raid when you can clear D3 in sub 20 mins and get a chance at the reward it's crazy

modern scarab
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guys what does the seasonal house buff give u again?

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does it give adapt?

desert vault