#Elesis Balance Update 12/6/2023

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stone mulch
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Share your thoughts related to Elesis's balance changes in the 12/6/2023. Please check the other threads for Chung and Luciel changes

slender nacelle
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Flame Lord.

Regarding the changes to Ignis Crusher, Eternal Fire, and [Mod] Eternal Fire, and Body of Fire? LOVE THEM! Although, it would be nice if [Mod] Eternal Fire was not only bigger (same size as Flame Orb), but dealt more damage to help clear better.

Regarding everything else, her problem of ALWAYS been low %s yet those issues have yet to be addressed. It's a disappointment waiting months for this patch to drop and even longer for a big fl change to hit and this has still not reached the balancer's ears. This issue INCLUDES the reworked version of Flame Orb. It would be nice if it dealt splash damage as well.

I can understand the nerf to Fire Stigma, but at the very least, compensate it with more damage to her other skills! [Mod] Eternal Fire is great, and I'm going to guess it was made to make up for her subpar clearing? But why was her clear not so great to begin with? Because Blazing Wing and Dance had low damage. This rings true for most of the skills in her arsenal, yet no matter how many time we bring it up, we're never heard. Please increase the damage of Flame Lords' skills. The -50% mag shred was the light at the end of a dark tunnel of dodging patch after patch of what her core issue is.

crisp badge
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ES Empire Sword's changes are excellent, and well-deserved. No notes or adjustments on changes, if there's anything I could complain about, it's that Triple Sonic feels like it needs a slight cast speed increase now.

FL Flame Lord's changes are exceptionally underwhelming. Eternal Fire mod being changed to work as a clearing and big bossing skill is excellent, but the use of all of your gale meter when you get resets (the best way to play FL) is exhorbitant during bossing. especially because now, Ignis Crusher's debuff is tied directly to Gale, and there's no way to mitigate the cost of gale meter. You have to sneak an active or SPActive in there, in order to make sure the debuff applies. In my opinion, It would have made more sense to apply the debuff to Flame Orb, in addition to its Flame Protection buff. Alternatively, change Eternal fire to an Annihilation skill, and lower its base cooldown.

On the topic of Flame Lord's clear skills, Blazing Dance, and Blazing Wing are still poorly underpowered. you have to use both skills to clear stages, where many other classes can use just one. Eternal Fire moves extremely slowly, and Flame Orb as well. They're only good for keeping a skill out on the field doing damage. I propose speeding up both skills significantly, like ES got for mod juggernaut, and Sword of Victory. If they came out faster, and did all of their damage faster, and moved faster, it would feel like a clean clear skill for her.

Apply a piercing effect to [Mod] Blazing Wing. at least once, or unlimited until tracking duration is over, like Breeze, and now [Mod] Burning Phantom.

Fireplay is still, in my opinion, in desperate need of a rework, or a speed increase. There's no reason it should take 4 seconds for a main DPS skill to come out and start dealing damage. Either make it work like Rain of Fire, and deal continuous bursts of fire in an AoE around her, or make it so that the skill is able to be cast to do damage within 1 second, and ensure hits on small targets as well.

Soul Ignition needs a rollback to the days where using special actives launched homing flame missiles, increasing the viability of a Bravery Flame Lord build, especially with Eternal Fire and Infernal Blade the way they are now. A viable option for Bravery FL please.

I will gladly give up the extra 2% mag damage taken debuff from ignis (12% to 10%) to return FL's 50% magic shred. I didn't expect to feel the shred nerf as hard as I did, and it's a terrible feeling.

BQ Bloody Queen's changes feel like they were directed at fixing her poor clear, and I feel like the changes are excellent. mod updates feel clean, satisfying, and the trait changes were well-needed. The raw power nerf was deserved, and the crit damage taken debuff is a nice way to give some supportive effects to a secondary or synergy DPS.
If there's one thing to mention, it's that Blood Storm needs a slight cast speed increase, just so that players who run reset lines can launch multiple if they get lucky enough to get a reset on that skill.

AD Adrestia's Critical Damage Taken nerf was undeserved, and honestly, with her low damage output in general, I was expecting the potency of her buffs to be increased, if anything. Outburst should do 15% mag damage taken, Elimination should shred 30% mag and phys defense, Catharsis should have increased critical damage taken to 15%, and the range of Catharsis is still quite poor, for such a high cost Annihilation skill.

My last issue with Adrestia is that she doesn't have enough cooldown mitigation for herself. I think adding a passive that decreases the cooldown of [Divinus Manus] skills by 1-2 seconds when using a [Divinus Manus] skill (similar to BQ's Blood Hit cooldown -1s passive) would make Adrestia feel more rewarding to play correctly, and make her more new-player friendly. Adrestia requires too much cooldown ERP to play cleanly.

void holly
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void holly
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oh god Adrestia cleanse is very awful

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yes have long distance but is very small, where most dungeons after rigimor is very tall

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flame lord mod ethernal fire sould be bigger

crisp badge
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I think it’s good because it has tracking fireballs. It just needs to do more hits, so it spawns more fireballs for bigger damage poggies

void holly
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on small target

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this same work on all skill with giant effect

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if have multi damage

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If they make the skill bigger and keep the same numbers it will be worse. The skill size is good, even for farming. Bigger would be nice, but still needs higher damage numbers first. Size can come with giant potion

void holly
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giant potion is too less

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look on Twins Picaro mod Coloring Fun this skill is gigantic but max dmg is 9700k

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and clear is great

slender nacelle
# crisp badge <:ES:1140394712231071744> Empire Sword's changes are excellent, and well-deserve...

As someone who uses the fist fight lines on fl, i dont have the issues that youre having with eternal fire. i think the way im playing is pretty solid, so to say cerulean is the best way to play her ignores other people who play like me. i do think that making it an annihilation skill would be nice, but its not really needed. ive also said that mod eternal fire should be bigger to further improve fls clearing. the damage could use a boost, too.

i agree with fireplay needing to fall faster since you have bosses like vasili in nightmare's cirb who love to teleport and move around, making one of my main damage skills miss a lot.

with soul ignition, they can keep the buff, but they desperately need to increase the damage the shockwave does. there shouldnt be a reason my 300 mp skill should be doing so little damage. blazing wing, blazing dance, sword fire, and flame orb suffer from this same issue. comparing fl to other strength dps like mad paradox and eternity winner is like night and day. buff her damage already

void holly
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eternity winner is physical

slender nacelle
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i forgot

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to edit that out

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💀

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perfecto

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thank

void holly
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anichilation ethernal fire is bad idea 30% cd give to much, will be better if flame lord have passive Adrestia i mean gale and anichilation stack is lock

wise leaf
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f

slender nacelle
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i think thats why they mentioned lowering its cooldown on top of that

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i think another reason it should stay gale is for the added action speed it gives

wise leaf
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they could move it over to anni and then buff its action speed by default tho

void holly
wise leaf
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ye but they are talking about the one skill it does effect

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# slender nacelle As someone who uses the fist fight lines on fl, i dont have the issues that your...

Not saying reset is the only way to play FL, but she doesn’t have the cooldown mitigation that all of her other paths have. BQ has -1s per blood hit skill cast, ES gets 2x cda, adrestia gets 1.2x cda, and -10% cooldown for the party including herself. Flame lord only has one innate passive to help, and it’s not enough for the damage she does tbh.

I do resets because FL has so many skills that do similar damage, being able to spam multiple skills often feels better than using everything in a rotation imo. The fantasy of Flame Lord to me is to be able to use fire constantly, and keep chucking out fire skills.

It could be bigger, yeah. But the speed and the hit count is still an issue imo.

void holly
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skill's base Elesis dont have sclae with action speed

slender nacelle
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try using eternal fire in annihilation vs gale. youll see it casts much faster

void holly
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ethernal fire have action speed sacle

slender nacelle
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it casts even faster when used in gale

void holly
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still Affected by Action Speed

slender nacelle
void holly
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ignis crusher dont have this

slender nacelle
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what do you mean

void holly
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i mean faster cast

slender nacelle
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oops misread that

void holly
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dont all skill is affected by action skill

slender nacelle
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ill have to test that one myself, because ignis crushers casting is really short, but compared to eternal fire? the action speed difference is extremely noticeable if you cast it in gale vs annihilation

candid jackal
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wasnt eternal fire on launch annihilation? i remember it was at one point

slender nacelle
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if elwiki is right, yes

void holly
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use Henir Infestation! title to reduction action speed

candid jackal
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ok yeah im not gaslighting myself in remembering it

void holly
slender nacelle
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henir infestation?

void holly
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dem i mean pasrive to affected action speed

void holly
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my b

slender nacelle
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i dont think its wise to use any of those titles in place of the 4 i have already, but thats getting off topic. i personally dont see eternal fire having issues tbh

void holly
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use this to test

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u can get most difference

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with buffs stats ect. to action speed and without and GET THE POWER!! title

slender nacelle
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like i said, i dont think replacing the 4 dps titles i have currently to increase the action speed of one skill is a good idea.

void holly
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this is true

void holly
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void holly
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this is to OP

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Also, it would be cool if while, infernal blade is active, blazing dance, mod, left a fire, clone behind to use the skill, similar to immortal

slender nacelle
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well they said that bq had a skill that removes 1 sec per blood hit skill...

void holly
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BQ and AD use brav skill, this skills have long cd

crisp badge
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That’s fair. Cooldown isn’t too much of an issue on fl. But the damage is just too bad in comparison.

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She needs higher numbers, or less cooldown

void holly
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for mp

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Yes, but that was before the speed boost. It was never like flying kite.

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It was super slow before. Pain.

void holly
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It would be really cool if they made blazing dance mod, infinite, as long as holding the button.

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It would be a really good small, bossing skill

slender nacelle
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her main issue was always having low damage compared to other classes.
my guess is because she has high amps? but if the amps increased her skills damage sufficiently, we wouldnt be here

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Another thing they need to rework is blooming flame, it needs to stack while the buff is active. Permanent up time please

crisp badge
# slender nacelle her main issue was always having low damage compared to other classes. my guess ...

The thing is, strength, DPS characters worked really well back in the old days, because they had lower cool down. But once cool and acceleration and reduction, buffs were added to the game, it was less worth it to play a strength character. You just run one of those OP reset supports or duo DPS, like mad paradox or radian souland bravery characters can spam skills as quickly as strength characters

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😔

void holly
void holly
void holly
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this pasive is eh

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😔

void holly
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it works the same as baryon fur

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It’s nice that it stacks perfectly with Fur, though.

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😂

void holly
slender nacelle
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even fireplay and ignis crusher pale in comparison to other character's skills blood storm, retirbution, kapow punch, coloring fun, etc etc

void holly
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yes kapow punch big dmg and 100% ignor def

slender nacelle
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compare mod blazing dance to laby thunder =/

void holly
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laby thunder beeter

slender nacelle
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strength stackers can still be strong, they just refuse to buff fls skill numbers...

crisp badge
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But yeah buff FL.

slender nacelle
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also, make unmod eternal stop launching mobs

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This^

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Agree 100%.

spring trail
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I think this also needs to be said. Following these changes to FL...

She's in an indentity crisis. Is she strength? Is she Bravery? Well, right now, she's neither because both options are so far in the bin that I can't even pull them out to see them reasonable. Her numbers are so buried they can't even see the light of day.

So assuming the issue of her identity crisis is resolved, whatever that ends up being, She needs damage. Like, she needs so much damage that it's ABYSMAL how much she needs.

There are her Four strongest skills.

  • mod Infernal Blade -----11.1k% (mod blazing dance does 13k Ig)
  • fire play ----------------27.5k%
  • Ignis Crusher -----------14.6k%
  • mod Eternal Fire -------35.3k%

That's how bad her numbers are. Let's take a look at some skills, shall we. KE's stacked skill does 69k% (nice). IM's stacked skill does checks notes 160k%. BQ's stacked skill does 89k%. Flame lord needs at least a doubling of damage. At least 70% direct increase to all of her skills.

Do you see the issue here? It takes 4 skills from FL, across both Bravery AND Strength to barely match a single skill from any other functional class. How has this been ignored for so long? Her damage is pathetic. Her skills are basically Actives compared to any other dps class.

And, ontop of all that she has pathetic CDR. She has gale and seed of fire... but that's it. for what? 15% CDR??? That needs to be at least 30%. BQ, by DIRECT COMPARISON gets 1 second per skill; that's 3 seconds per three skills, while FL gets... 15%? for 3 skills? On what's supposed to be a strength based character with low cool downs? That's... Checks notes 1second? 1.5 seconds maybe? Now if she's a bravery character and uses eternal fire, which I hope she is based on her numbers, that's... 3 seconds? Okay. But I need to use skills and if everything is on Cooldown with 2 stacks...

I love her. I've Loved BH since I saw her gameplay in KR well before she came to NA. I made my Elesis day one for BH. And was a BH/FL for 8 years.

slender nacelle
# spring trail I think this also needs to be said. Following these changes to FL... She's in ...

Agreed. Not only are most of the skills in her arsenal (sword fire, blazing dance, blazing wing, flame orb, soul ignition, mod infernal blade, mod blazing dance, mod blazing wing) just weak, but so are her main damage skills and their mod counterparts.

When we say that all of her skills need damage boost, we truly mean all of her skills.

You left out unmod eternal fire and mod ignis crusher, which imo need damage boosts as well. Fireplay will also not hit most bosses because of how the skill spreads. The best case I can think of currently is berthe's head in altar of invocation's second phase.

The thing with mod eternal fire and flame orb is that you have to back up a considerable amount only to still not do as much damage.

Like I said with her cooldowns, I think it would be best if the 15% from burning flower was increased to 20%.

spring trail
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I wasn’t particularly upset with nexon before, but now I am. The changes to FL have ALWAYS BEEN tone deaf and useless.

DoubleHerDamage

I am done with these useless reworks after rework. I am not putting another goddamn cent into this game until Flame Lord is fixed.

As someone who is more than happy to sink more than $1,000 a month, that’s gone until her damage is doubled. I am holding my wallet ransom.

slender nacelle
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Also in general make iron body last longer

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For FL, the burning flower CDR doesn't lower iron body's CD enough to have 100% uptime unless you have supports that can lower your CDs too

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It's ridiculous

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slender nacelle
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last thing im buying is pet auto consume but im in the same boat

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ive only just joined this boat but ik one fl main whose been saying her dmg has been low for like

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6 years at this point

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were really not asking her to be the strongest character in the game, just for her to be able to catch up and do damage alongside other magical dps like dyb, mpx, tp, genesis, etc...

crisp badge
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buff FL.

slender nacelle
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buff FL.

wise leaf
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bufFL

spring trail
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#BufFL #DoubleHerDamage

void holly
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i dont understand why they never changed fire play after reboot character (07/31/2019) 4years xD

void holly
slender nacelle
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my only issue with fireplay is it taking 1000 years to fall and the way its spread

id much prefer if they fell right infront of elesis as opposed to spreading around above her because most bosses in the game arent going to take all the hits

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well issues*

void holly
void holly
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i mean cast infront

slender nacelle
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the only boss i can think of taking all hits is berthes head in altar of invocation phase 2

void holly
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yes but this is hard, u know 1000 years waiting to explode

slender nacelle
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the thing with berthe is that he doesnt move, youll always hit

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same cant be said with other bosses, like the aforementioned nightmare crib phase 1 boss

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I want fireplay to look like this instead^

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Could be a bravery press-and-hold skill like Ace kek

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hold it down, do damage.

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free.99

spring trail
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spring trail
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I think something that FL could benefit from is having her own “gauge”. Like a heat gauge that as she builds heat from using fire skills, she can get stronger and stronger until she hits “overheat” where she caps at 100% extra damage for say 10 seconds, before the buff resets.

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The idea leans into strength characters spamming the ever living hell out of skills at least, and helps her identity.

crisp badge
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Yeah I thought about something like that too. As long as her multipliers work, she could have designated “Inferno” skills. Like mod eternal, fireplay, infernal blade, ignis etc.
i agree. I want a stacking battle buff

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You could indirectly buff all her damage by giving her a new system like that

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And solve a lot of problems

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Also blazing dance should reset on mob kills please. Ty.

slender nacelle
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Buff FL (Day5)

spring trail
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honestly just redesign FL from the ground up.

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spring trail
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Ara who?

Smh ara stealing our skills.

wise leaf
slender nacelle
slender nacelle
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i also think that awakened will blazing heart should be changed to "attacking a burning enemy with skills/actives/commands should ignore a set amount of defense permanently" instead of having a chance of it happening

change infernal blade from ignoring raw defense to a percentage of defense too

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also, they should give us more bonuses if we use the correct aura when using a skill and add that to mistress of inferno

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seeing how they randomly added that mag atk increase to ignis, they should follow suit with the other skills

unkempt tide
# void holly and Rain of Chaos (Innocent), have it now

Innocent doesn't have it
They made the change initially but it was reverted back during the 2nd patch, ppl found it worse for most content supposedly (for the rain of chaos positioning)

Not to say changing it won't benefit flame lord, it didn't seem to benefit innocent's specific skill
(Sorry just a random side note)

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slender nacelle
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potential ideas (dont got many lmao):

soul ignition: cleanses elesis' debuffs while having enemies hit have their own debuffs increased (fl is the only elesis who doesnt have a cleansing skill. give her one.)

mod blazing dance: if used with infernal blade, skill will ignore 80% of an enemies' defense (and like level said before, maybe she can also spawn a firey version of herself to do dmg)

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void holly
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Infernal blade with % def ingore base on fire res, not now when on 500 def ignore

slender nacelle
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or have her do even more damage if shes debuffed

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I mean, technically we get 10% defense ignore wheeze copium

slender nacelle
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annihilation is so cope

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I'm perma gale on FL.

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the loss of action speed isn't worth it.

slender nacelle
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maybe they should change one of her passives to do something about her chivalry guages

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it's cope

slender nacelle
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shes a character begging to have a secondary system

void holly
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honestly, it doesn't make sense why the FIRE Elesis stays in the BLUE AURA combat style.

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slender nacelle
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i volunteer invincible flame as tribute for changing her gale/annihilation gauges

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shes just so outdated

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if she was made in 2020 wed be singing a different tune =/

crisp badge
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500 flat is nothing

slender nacelle
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change it to 60-80% def ignore

crisp badge
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and use her system

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Using skills in the right color apply a stack of invincible flame per skill, dealing DoT, and increasing magic damage taken by 13% max, too.

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so she'd be a 25% mag damage amp total

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kek

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Only thowing this out there in case there's no change to her numbers tbh

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all of Flame Lord's numbers need an increase of 75%-150%

slender nacelle
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i cant believe they made us wait close to a year for buffs only to give us this 🗿

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i also shouldnt need to +12 a wep just to do dmg

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why is her damage so low

crisp badge
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also, identity. There's not an "All Skill Damage" ring in NA. So we can't use multiple types of skills without missing out on damage. FL is such a mixed bag. Mod Burst Rising does as much as some of her strength skills. Fireplay is slow, but doesn't even land all hits. Ignis requires significant positioning proficiency, especially on small targets. new Mod Eternal Fire is good, but it doesn't do enough hits on smaller targets without also having to position

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Infernal Blade is really good, but it moves you so much. personally, I just want it to be one slash with all the damage.

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and give it like 30k% please.

slender nacelle
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someone said mod infernal should work like her mc slash

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the amount of times i've fallen off the side of p2 in Ran

slender nacelle
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1 huge slash

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UGH. YES. I'D LOVE THAT.

slender nacelle
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and she stays in place

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BUT ALSO GIVE MC A BUFF

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WHY DOES IT DO 40K% BUT NO MULTIPLIERS 😭

slender nacelle
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hyperactives are trash
master class skills are trash

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not all

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all of Rena's do upwards of 100k+

slender nacelle
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uses up all that mana and has long cooldown and for what 💀

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why is there such a big disparity

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you have cas mc

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aand then you have fls

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??

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😔

slender nacelle
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if youre not gonna take our ideas of a revamped fl, at least double her damage

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cuz thats been her core issue for years

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^

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also give back the 50% shred. thanks.

slender nacelle
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theyre giving her synergy dps numbers while killing her synergy LOL

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💀

slender nacelle
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increase the cast speed of mod dance so i dont slide off the platforms

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increase burning flowers 15% cd to 20% so i can have full uptime on iron body

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increase flame protections 5% mag atk/def buff to 15%

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agree except Flame Protection. should be 15% base increase, then with the trait another 30% of it, so 18%.

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BQ gets it, why can't FL

slender nacelle
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add more to the high heat debuff because just a fire resistance decrease isnt enough anymore (USE MY IDEA)

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again, if damage numbers are untouched.

slender nacelle
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yeah screw it lets go 15%

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idk

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bq has high numbers AND high multipliers

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why shouldnt we shrug

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real.

slender nacelle
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change flame orb so we dont have to step back 50 feet to maximize damage

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revamp avatar of fire to something else completely cuz its just trash

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honestly, I think Flame Orb could really benefit from just being right in front of you for its duration, dealing damage without moving.

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it would be so much better.

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like Fire Wall, but good

slender nacelle
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if its supposed to be a clearer, make it move faster

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a bosser? keep it still

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i like it, but i dont want to keep moving around while dpsing

spring trail
slender nacelle
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your guess is as good as mine

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Jesus Christ you guys

image.png
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we doubled the Chung balance update thread activity '^'

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Flame Lord mains passionate. Buff Flame Lord. flstare

slender nacelle
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cuz were tired of being consistently screwed over

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No, because this is actually unfair.
My ES is +11, S2 SoA, and I gear transferred everything.

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My FL is S5, +12 SoA.

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What is this.

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I did multiple attempts

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i also transferred stacked skills

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just to make sure

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like... no.

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this is insane

slender nacelle
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buff fl

vapid swift
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💀

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merry christmas, i know lots of pipz here are on to FL. i just want to tell the devs here that, please buff Adrestia's skill Cascade, make it 100% chance to freeze instead of 30% please. ty

slender nacelle
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^
This. It’s the same with revenant and prophetess. They have skills where the tooltip says “freeze” but it’s just a frost effect. Really should be updated.

vagrant heart
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Buff fl

slender nacelle
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buff fl

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ohhh. thats why. i thought im just unlucky that 30% not even working. got it ty guys

slender nacelle
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on the topic of having fl have "inferno" skills, maybe her awakened will passive can be changed to be like daybreakers arrow mastery passive:

inferno skills (fireplay, infernal blade, blazing wing, blazing dance, flame orb, ignis crusher) and command and actives have a chance to ignore enemies' defense

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also buff fl

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Buff FL.

vagrant heart
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buff fl

open widget
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buff adrestia passives please,
i think they should increase the indomitable passive to "during awakening" instead of just 60sec.
and also they should lower the awareness passive to 2 gale/anni instead of 3

crisp badge
# open widget buff adrestia passives please, i think they should increase the indomitable pas...

Indomitable refreshes with onions / superhumans at any point after awakening, and cycles well with Freed Shadow already. I think it will probably be fine once everyone gets re-awakening.
Awareness should be changed too, I agree with that. Since Catharsis isn't a priority debuff skill anymore, using Outburst>Thunderhead, then Elimination>Catharsis could be a good rotation just to get everything up quickly, and maximizing the damage of catharsis

slender nacelle
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happy holidays, buff fl =]

spring trail
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Buff FL; she’s the goddamn flame lord. Not the farbage lord

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another easy buff that would fix almost all of her issues:

make infernal blade bypass x% defense based on fire resistance. Not flat.

slender nacelle
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I vote 85%

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85% here. Blood Falls does it, why can't FL? ty

slender nacelle
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You're so based for that

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spring trail
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Buff FL

spring trail
# slender nacelle I vote 85%

I would probably go with something along the lines of 50-60%. My intent is to make infernal blades buff bypass def for all of her special actives/commands. I feel like 85% def ignore for everything is a bit toooo much.

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Also

Ahem

GM’s reading this, the reason there’s 4 people actively discussing changes for FL, is because she’s so bad that’s how many people actually play her.

slender nacelle
slender nacelle
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I'm thinking about how in the past, FL was at her strongest because infernal blade was bugged to apply defense ignore to all of her attacks. Might as well make that a reality on TOP of doubling her damage because it isn't fair to have our skill be one of, if not the ONLY, skill to ignore RAW defense. It's not 2015 anymore.

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So maybe something like ignores 0.5% def per 50 res (max 50%)

slender nacelle
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increase mega buster's dmg and change light to heavy. also, make the casting speed faster. fl could use another annihilation skill thats not garbage.

slender nacelle
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on the topic of base elesis. rework annihilation. 10% def pierce does nothing for us.

wise leaf
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overcrit anni ... While in ani % crit chance over 100% adds a chance for the crit to turn purple and add an extra 50% crit dmg to it

spring trail
compact grailBOT
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axthen has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

spring trail
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It'd be really funny lol

spring trail
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I think purely giving Infernal Blade 50+% defense ignore solves almost all of her problems full stop.

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and it also doesn't drastically break the game before abyss as well. Since it scales nicely throughout the whole game.

wise leaf
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xD

slender nacelle
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i think maybe annihilation could do something like "all hits will deal x amount of critical dmg and ignore y amount of defense"...DONT make them some abysmally low number like 10 or 15 because thats the issue were dealing with concerning the current annihilation - it does NOTHING

im just throwing ideas around. i wouldve proposed a raw skill damage increase, but that would just be copying way of the sword. i feel like uniqueness is important!

slender nacelle
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and now, a compilation of things i want to see + issues with fl

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chivalry: annihilation mode - change the pierce to increased crit dmg + def ignore or some. current one is trash.
mega buster - change light to heavy + low dmg
sword fire - low dmg
fireplay - takes too long to fall, allowing enemies to move out of range/really awkward hitbox so almost ALL bosses wont take all hits. make the fireballs fall in front of elesis + more dmg
avatar of fire - just revamp this. this skill is trash in both pvp and pve
infernal blade - only ignores a FLAT 500 defense. it should ignore a % which should apply to skills as well + more dmg
eternal fire - more dmg
blazing dance - low dmg
blazing wing - low dmg
flame orb - low dmg + i have to position myself fairly far off to "maximize" the amount of dmg i can do. make the skills hitbox a fireball in front of elesis instead
fire stigma - give me back -50% def shred, thanks
ancient fire - low dmg
awk will: blazing heart - make it so special actives can proc the passive (like daybreakers arrow mastery)
flame protection - magical atk/def increase should be upped to 15%. also turn the res from only fire to all attributes instead
ignis crusher - make it so i dont need to be in the air (like genesis's sin cleaver) + more dmg
soul ignition - make it a cleanse for just herself
ignition bomb - low dmg
heart of fire - change master of fires healing to something else. maybe crit dmg received increased or debuff duration
[mod] infernal blade - make it ignore a % of dmg which should apply to other skills. also, make elesis do one single slash and make the claymore look like flame lord's promo. Special actives will apply additional stigma stacks + more dmg
[mod] blazing wing - more dmg
[mod] ignis crusher - usable on the ground + more dmg
[mod] eternal fire - more dmg
[mod] blazing dance - have her ignore 80% of an enemies defense and increase the casting speed + more dmg
**infernal gate ** - low dmg

wise leaf
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so basically everything about fl lol

spring trail
# slender nacelle **chivalry: annihilation mode** - change the pierce to increased crit dmg + def ...

Some changes to this list I'd personally recommend

make [mod] ignis crusher have the same hitbox as [mod] catharsis; a cone attack would be solid.

make Ancient fire have a unique debuff that only affects FL's skills; ancient burn or something like that lets FL deal 10% more damage for 20 - 30 seconds or something.

make soul ignition a cleanse, imho, instead of immunity

rework avatar of fire to be an immunity; just let it buff iron body

crisp badge
# wise leaf *so basically everything about fl lol*

Unfortunately, it's what it takes. her kit is extremely dated. Fireplay was changed to its current version in summer 2019.
Tbh, I would prefer Fireplay to work like how they changed FP's Burning Punisher. Pitch a condensed fireball that explodes into tons of smaller explosions and splash damage. like its old version, of course updated and still a special active, Strength is fine, but Bravery? We'd be cooking.. https://youtu.be/hxcmLyiqQ_s

YouTube
Shironsaki
[ElswordKR]Blazing Heart: Fireworks

http://elwiki.net/w/Fireworks

▶ Play video
wise leaf
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Lol

slender nacelle
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ADDITIONAL NOTE FOR MOD INFERNAL BLADE: make special actives also apply additional stigma stacks if a special active is used!

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Edited!

slender nacelle
crisp badge
#

Yes but both of the physical Elesis classes have debuff immunity in addition to their kits. And BQ has a self cleanse, and with her cooldown passives, she can basically never be debuffed

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I’m fine with “whole soul ignition is active, become immune to debuffs” or rework avatar of fire to cleanse all debuffs from herself and the party, as well as recovering party MP based on debuffs removed.

slender nacelle
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damn that last bit is actually smart

spring trail
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slender nacelle
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honestly she can still be selfish

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because the 12% mag increase isnt enough

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if they want pointers on a strong dps who can shred, dia is right there...

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and i dont think theyre considered a syn dps? idk

spring trail
void holly
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I have one question to KoG, some one reed this feedback
if no: why ask
if yes: how long we will wait to answers

crisp badge
crisp badge
# void holly I have one question to KoG, some one reed this feedback if no: why ask if yes: ...

I really do believe they send our feedback to KR, or they have someone secretly in here from there. The thing is, the changes will take time to implement if we’re taken into consideration at all. What’s frustrating to me is that even though we’re our own server, we don’t make our own balancing based on our players. We still just follow the KR meta. And that hurts underplayed classes because most players in kr play meta, not just for fun. If our feedback is heard at all, it’s going to be implemented after all the other character balancing is completed. If nothing changes, or no comment from kr is made, it’s basically confirmed they don’t listen to us. This amount of feedback is enormous. Significant community engagement. Even a month later we’re still actively talking about how we’d like to see our class get treated fairly.

void holly
crisp badge
# void holly I m not sure about this

I do believe the feedback is sent to them. It just might not be taken into strong consideration if it’s just from one person. The times events have come with strange timing for N.A. that inconvenienced many players have resulted in events changing to online attendance within a 24 hour window, so everyone can get the items, even without being specifically in North America. Look at the job change tickets. They just require 30 minute login within a week at some point. They used to be one-day login short windows and sometimes just wildly inconvenient

slender nacelle
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They better consider our criticisms. This is the most active thread, and 90% of the feedback is about FL being weak

slender nacelle
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i think we still might have a shot because they mentioned not doing % buffs during these balance patches, but i would really prefer if they were up front to us as well, not just kr.

vivid pecan
# crisp badge I really do believe they send our feedback to KR, or they have someone secretly ...

I'm somewhat curious on how seperate server balancing would be done?

And along if that, if it diverts enough from KR's view, would it dare to bring in more players globally, and bring some more of the playerbase back if it happens?

I also fret whether or not NA could do the balancing themselves, considering manpower(which I don't have enough info on so do enlighten me). If we get to that point, how much can we divert from KR?

Hell, it would be funny if FL gotten more boss dmg and dmg scaling (just keep that to pve) and adrestia had offensive supportive abilities on some of her divinus manus skills or even a debuff aura similar to RV(un-removable by nothing while increasing asd and mag dmg done on enemies affected with divinus manus, or straight up:
el infection- hitting enemies with divinus manus skills infects them with volatile el: increasing dmg that they take based on stage and fades after 25-30 secs),

And If anything id like to see some examples of region-based game balancing(most games just take their patches from their home server and call it a day. And I'm under a rock in terms of who does their balancing like this.)

slender nacelle
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I disagree with us getting our own balance patches, but I do think they need to look at other servers. If they have no DaTa on a character, maybe they should look at other servers rather than the one or two people you probably have +12s/+13s.

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For example, bloody queen is very strong, but apparently her population is low in Kr. I don't think itd be fair if we got a weaker version of her in our server and they got a stronger one there just because nobody plays her over there (if I'm understanding this correctly)

They need to look past theoreticals and take out advise more seriously. if you can't take the time to play each character, then you should be listening to feedback we the players provide, because flame lord had been a weak character for years and the balancers haven't touched her lowe low dmg issue. No, she won't be taken into ran parties with her dmg recieved and shred. Just turn her into a pure dps and fix those numbers =]

crisp badge
# vivid pecan I'm somewhat curious on how seperate server balancing would be done? And along ...

Yes. Most games take balancing from home server and apply it everywhere. The main issue with elsword to me is that they know KR is going to implement these changes, even though their dev team is also not huge, and the rest of KOG are working on other games and releases like Return Alive, KurtzPel, GCM, GCC. Gathering feedback from only the Primary server and implementing it two weeks later doesn’t give us any time at all for input. Anything else we say is relegated to most likely the summer updates if anything. NA doesn’t have to have separate balance patching, but it does need to have timely input on issues and changes that fully affect all of us. A team that strictly focuses on balance feedback and input and meets with KR devs on a regular basis is needed, and transparency for players needs to happen. They know we look at and see KR updates ahead of time. But can’t talk about it.
Look at how many responses we all have in terms of updates and feedback in these forums! Everyone loves to voice their opinions, and express frustrations and we need a team dedicated to making those concerns voiced to kr, and a breakdown of the chats they have with KR devs, similar to how the dev + player chats happen in KR. Even if it’s just “we gave them a breakdown of what players are saying, and these are the responses and things that are being worked on, and when it will come.

I just want more coordinated communication from our home server.

wise leaf
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will never happen sadge

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double whammy that its a server in a different language and that the people running it is nexon

crisp badge
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Can't happen if we don't ask for it, i guess SCbread

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All I'm saying is buff FL.

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ty

wise leaf
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gl

crisp badge
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new AeS looking huge btw LevelPray

wise leaf
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ye

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we will have to see it in play

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but it looks cool

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even if its bad it finally fills out something shes been missing since the 2015 revamps

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altho i hope its not bad

slender nacelle
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People are saying the changes are good

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Still waiting for FL to get the same treatment

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At least our low dmg sister in arms is doing good DemSleepBen

wise leaf
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lol

crisp badge
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Bluhen can outdamage FL now btw.

slender nacelle
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HELP LMAO

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Can I use that FL emote 👀

crisp badge
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yes, I made it myself 😂

slender nacelle
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=D

crisp badge
slender nacelle
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Tyyy <333

spring trail
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Buff FL

wise leaf
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buffl

crisp badge
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Buff fl

slender nacelle
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Buff fl

spring trail
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Buff FL

reef sun
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FL has the same issue as apsara with kite, except that apsara has spiritual dragon

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if you're clearing trash content you're a god, but if you don't hit the threshold for oneshotting you become really, really garbage

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if they want to maintain the homing part of her kit it would be a good idea to introduce a %HP execute threshold for non-boss monsters only

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otherwise her scaling ends up falling off a cliff

slender nacelle
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thats a good idea!

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same can apply to blazing wing as well

crisp badge
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I think eternal fire truly solves a lot of her clearing issues already. The main issue for flame lord still stems from her low damage % numbers on her skills. It’s mostly bossing that sucks with her, and mana management if you’re low ERP. All execution does is give them an excuse to keep the numbers low. Look at black massacre. She has an execute, so does Bluhen, so did the appollyon skill with its aura. It was only slightly useful. The scaling is poor. You often just end up with enemies that survive just above the threshold. I’d rather give more raw damage than introduce an execute threshold

slender nacelle
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i was thinking "do more dmg if a mob is above a certain hp" as opposed to killing them outright.

crisp badge
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That would be a great idea for clear! A built in titan slayer would be awesome for her clear. Or have blazing wing mod change to a piercing skill with significantly faster speed, leave a mark that explodes when hit by another flame lord skill, like blazing dance or eternal fire, just to make use of mod blazing wing and blazing dance together

wise leaf
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owo

spiral gull
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just go bravery fl

slender nacelle
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Has anyone actually tried out brv FL?
Like switching EVERYTHING to brv?

spiral gull
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me not but i know 2 elesis that testing right now

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but this look too good

image.png
slender nacelle
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Well yeah, but that wasn't a recent change, y'know what I mean?

crisp badge
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True, though nobody has really thought of infernal blade as a main DPS skill though. More of a way to get blue meter with a buff and extra damage. and it’s still only relevant in high defense content like challenge. But we’ll see.

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But that would also explain why the bug with applying infernal blade’s defense ignore to skills was so problematic in berthe LOL

void holly
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void holly
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this have potecial but need cdr

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25.2s pain

spiral gull
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Small bossing = godly

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big bossing i think i need to use fireplay still, which is cope

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wheeze

slender nacelle
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eugh

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so how is it compared to str in your opinion?

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oh, and whyd you use mod eternal as opposed to unmod?

crisp badge
# slender nacelle so how is it compared to str in your opinion?

Honestly, small bossing is significantly easier. With the knowledge that infernal pierces being revealed, stacking that for the small bossing, and eternal fire mod now for large bossing, bravery flame lord is not bad at all. I think it’s overall better, because FL doesn’t feel like she’s meant to be played alone. She still needs a bit more synergy in my opinion.

crisp badge
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Skill issue ik. 😆

slender nacelle
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its understandable

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man i wish i could play around with this

crisp badge
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Haha. Yeah. A benefit of hitting R21 😩

slender nacelle
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if they do bother fixing the %s and raising infernals dmg, ill consider it

crisp badge
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Watch the videos and specifically when I hit infernal 😩

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Honestly with the pierce I think the damage is fair LOL

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It scales so hard with high defense content

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I gotta try challenge.

slender nacelle
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i wish that u used it with anni 😭

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cuz doesnt that also have 10% pierce?

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would that scale up to 90%? 🤔

crisp badge
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I tried to, but I’m not consistent with it yet 😆. Yeah it has another 10% pierce, so it’s 90%. Yes.

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Then you shred 30% with stigma so

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It’s almost like 100% ignore.

spring trail
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Bravery FL is definitely where it’s at.

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But also

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Buff FL

spring trail
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6% buff to Ignis crusher debuff is a solid start, but she needs moreee

crisp badge
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I think it solidified her place as a synergy DPS

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But I’m wondering why not just make it a 20% flat mag amp

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Adrestia needs buffs too

slender nacelle
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its a good amp, but im still looking for dps skill increases

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ill never complain about a buff, but this isn't really where we needed it

crisp badge
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Give bravery a shot

slender nacelle
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i actually tried it out

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did dailies with it the other day

crisp badge
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Stacking infernal or eternal?

slender nacelle
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what really stopped me was eternal fire

crisp badge
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I do both

slender nacelle
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infernal ofc

crisp badge
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Really?

slender nacelle
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yeah

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it just takes too long to cast, even when in gale

crisp badge
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Half and half feels like the sweet spot for me tbh

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Eternal fire is very fast tho

slender nacelle
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in that time, if either fireplay or ignis were to reset or get off cooldown, itd be faster to just press those buttons

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eternal is fast, but both of those take like a second to cast

crisp badge
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You’re using mod eternal right?

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Infernal for bossing, eternal for big boss / clear

slender nacelle
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no im using unmod for bossing

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especially if its a smaller boss, unmod just does more dmg

crisp badge
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The speed of mod is too convenient imo. It’s just better to focus infernal for bossing, and half stack eternal for clear

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You can make up the rest with blaze wing

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And dance

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Ignis and fireplay still do great damage while the rest are on cooldown, and provide you with red meter for infernal smack

slender nacelle
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i think bravery really shines with ceru

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since it aint a gale skill, it just has a longer cooldown

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not really abusable with ff

crisp badge
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True

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I didn’t think about that. Cerulean FL feels so good

slender nacelle
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brv route is definitely a good route to go down, but i prefer str because its cheaper in both mp and cd

spring trail
crisp badge
slender nacelle
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im still sticking with fist fight, but its nice to hear another perspective

spring trail
spring trail
slender nacelle
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i prefer fist fight lol

spring trail
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Which also makes eternal fire a more funny for clearing

slender nacelle
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i feel like im the only one who uses it sometimes

spring trail
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Anyway, uh… shout out to the 6% buff. DehyaWheeze

slender nacelle
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need more dmg buffs

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but good so far

spring trail
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Yeah. Not passive buffs, we just need actual % increases.

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Eternal fire has insane damage only in situations where there’s a lot of trash to kills. Its bossing damage is horribly gimped in comparison.

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If they made Ef mod make the splash orbs on hit rather than kill

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It would also fix a lot of her damage issues

crisp badge
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2 fireballs per hit per enemy

slender nacelle
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gonna go cerulean fl guys

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but i dont have any ceru pieces and i dont wanna spend a bunch of money and resources just to get 0.3 chance to reset

crisp badge
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If I find any pieces I’ll ping you.

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Or if you have season pass gz ez 4-piece change

slender nacelle
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no i dont 😭

crisp badge
slender nacelle
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i dont got money

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but i would get it if i did

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💯

slender nacelle
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Since they look at these
Requesting 20-25% CDR on burning flower so we can manage infernal blade and iron body better

stone mulch
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That's a way to burn through those cooldown timers

crisp badge
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Welcome Raiden! To the hottest topic on the feedback tab. With good reason. We are Elesis players after all.

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I still think an inferno stack system would be sick. The more stacks, the more buffs. Mag power, cooldown red, speeds etc.

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Solve it all with a new system baby.

spring trail
spring trail
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Which I think is also indicative of her poor state :(

slender nacelle
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same

spring trail
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I still do think that FL needs her own system, similar to how AES got her own system. Let us build overheat, and at max overheat we get drastically lowered cd for a couple of seconds/afterburn for heavily increased damage for a couple of seconds. Changing between the two depending on skills used.

Another idea is for the afterburn/overheat to affect different skills differently.

I don’t know; there’s a lot of really cool ideas that the AES rework has presented that gives me hope for FL

slender nacelle
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that 5% atk is just too attractive for someone with such low dmg

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ceru sounds fun but i rlly dont got the money to redo all my lines or the gear to back up my dmg if i dont rese

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t

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also occasional reminder to have special actives proc this passive ❤️‍🔥

image.png
spiral gull
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slender nacelle
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Tested it again, I have 100 points in cooldown reduction erp, a 5% cdr circlet, yellow artifact, and dreaming automata's top piece. i shouldnt need external buffs to upkeep my 15% mag atk buff (which is even more important because fl has low dmg)

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Oh! and i also shouldnt have to rely on cerulean to do this as well ❤️‍🔥

slender nacelle
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ALSO PLEASE CHANGE AVATAR OF FIRE INTO SOMETHING ELSE ITS SO GARBAGE IN BOTH PVP AND PVE pls

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why is it even locked behind a skill book
camila really out here scamming us

crisp badge
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On god.

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AoF got gutted. It’s so worthless now. Make it a buff.

slender nacelle
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Avatar of fire absorbs blaze/burn debuffs. There used to be 3 ways to proc it, but since fireplay changed, there are only two ways - fire attribute on your weapon and red lotus sword.

You'll never see anyone with fire attribute on their wep in either pve or pvp because water/wind/dark are just superior, and in pvp, youre not going to be carrying red lotus sword or sword fire if you're playing optimally. Even if you did have those two things, in pve you're only getting 20 mp back, and in pvp you're only getting 2 mp back. That's not even enough to refund the skill cost because it's 10 mp. Even in the case of pve, you'd get more mp by just pressing z. Useless

This isn't to mention how tiny the hitbox itself is. Being an active, there's no freeze frame, and you can only hit people if you're directly above or below them.

Either alter how the skill works or change it into something else entirely. It's 🚮

slender nacelle
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also, for a character who is all about burning, not a lot of her skills inflict the burn debuff. along side adding special actives to awakened wills passive, i suggest adding a dmg increase to enemies under burn

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alongside adding the burn debuff to more of her skills

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mod eternal fire was also changed, so there goes another source of the burning debuff

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maybe change mistress of inferno so elesis just automatically procs the burning debuff while shes attacking.

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as of right now, the only way to proc burning is through the >>^xzzz command, sword fire, and pillar of fire (and even this one is just a chance). this is ridiculous. when thinking about endgame, i only use commands on things that require active/command dmg (and even then, i prefer to use zxxx), i only use sword fire when all of my other skills are on cooldown (because low damage), and i dont use pillar of fire because it does no damage. How do you expect us to take advantage of awakened will's chance to ignore defense, guard, and damage reduction if we cant even get an enemy to burn in the first place? this makes me feel like you guys don't pay attention to the whole picture when balancing characters.

wise leaf
spring trail
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Just apply awakened will blazing heart to special actives, ez. It makes an interesting meta shift for FL AS WELL since it makes her unique in that you stack burning instead of just always freezing and wind.

It would be really cool for her to have that kind of meta shift from everyone.

slender nacelle
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Yes, give us actual bonuses for attributing fire!

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I wouldn't mind reattributing for fire if the buff from it was more attractive than wind and water

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Just like how we have to get fire res because of a passive, make us get fire iv as well

wise leaf
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give her an effect that extends fire attribute to 6 stacks if she uses it owo

crisp badge
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I’d love to make use of fire wall if it actually did damage again.

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Maybe a future mod.

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Same with fireplay. A future mod that fixes damage output speed issues

spring trail
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I'll always be against fireplay buffs because I prefer brv FL. I'd be down for an actual mod version of Infernal blade, though.

Because let's be real; there is almost no difference between unmod and mod. Usually mods drastically alters or changeshow a skill works and looks.

Infernal Blade [Mod] = Infernal Blade. 3 slashes for each in the same exact animation. It's lazy as heck and is my single longest standing complaint for FL.

Make Mod Infernal Blade giver her a % ignore defense buff to all of her special actives that synergizes with Awakened Will: Blazing Heart.

OR, SINCE THE SKILL ICON IS INFERNAL BLADE: Adjust Awakened Will: Blazing Heart to make the passive effect of blazing heart to be Infernal Blade now applies 50% ignore defense to all special actives that hit a burning target.

Adjust Infernal Blade [Mod] to be a single, 46,547% slash that applies the buff to all of her special actives via Awakened Will:Blazing Heart for 10 seconds after casting. IF the target is suffering from the elemental effect BURNING, increase damage by 50%.

Include this change with the 20-25% cdr reduction for flowers that @slender nacelle suggested and I think that fixes FL as a character as a whole.

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Alternatively

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This set of adjustments is based around the idea that FL becomes the only character that uses the "Elemental: Burning" attribute, which I think is very cool and fun.

  • Adjust Infernal Blade [Mod] - Single slash that deals 32,536% damage.

  • Adjust Infernal Blade [Mod] BUFF - Ignore 40% mag defense when attacking an enemy with the Elemental Burning condition

  • Adjust Awakened Will: Blazing Heart - When attacking a target with the Elemental Burning condition, increase all damage by 30%

  • Adjust Seed of Fire - All skill cooldown increased from 15% -> 20%,

  • Adjust Seed of Fire - Magical Attack Increase increased from 14% -> 20%

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I fully believe that this is the direction that FL should go for future patches and mechanic changes. Carving out her own niche for damage by utilizing Attribute Burning on her weapon as opposed to Wind and Water like everyone else.

Making Infernal Blade a single, high power slash, applying ignore defense to all skills and commands, and adjusting awakened will blazing heart to supply the necessary % increase she needs to be a star.

slender nacelle
# spring trail I'll always be against fireplay buffs because I prefer brv FL. I'd be down for a...

even if youre against str fl, that shouldnt mean that fireplay should be thrown to the wayside. its her big bossing tool,and also one of her strongest skills. it should be adjusted to help with that.

im down for infernal blade to ignore defense for other skills, as well, but id still prefer to see her skills dmg % be increased. infernal blade is a good skill, but it really shines where defense is high (challenge mode). due to the nature of def ignore/pierce, it wont do as much damage against enemies with lower defense.

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also please for goodness sake, make flame orb stay in one place as opposed to slowly moving. its not ideal for clearing and it sure as hell isnt ideal for bossing. i dont want to have to move away from the boss to deal damage.

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for fireplay, the hitbox can be similar to the grenades (bombs? the red circles) in tempest burster's burst grenade. all concentrated on one side so we can get full hits.

image.png
spring trail
# slender nacelle even if youre against str fl, that shouldnt mean that fireplay should be thrown ...

with 6% buff we're getting from ignis crusher this wednesday, combined with the 6% magical attack increase to seed of fire and the 30% damage buff I suggest with Blazing heart I think FL actually gets enough damage to at least be servicable.

I don't expect KoG to rubberband her to the top. But baby steps. And I think those suggestions are a way to get her to the top. After all that, we could probably see a 10% buff to all of her %'s (10% of total, not an numeric +10% increase)

slender nacelle
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she doesnt need to be the best of the best, we dont need the second coming of twins picaro

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but shes definitely on the lower end on the magical side, which gets even sadder considering were in a phys dominated meta. i dont think any of these suggestions are overkill as the class is just not doing well at the moment

wise leaf
crisp badge
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She’s in synergy DPS jail, with less synergy, and lower damage.

wise leaf
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F

crisp badge
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Personally, I like that she helps the party with some kind of amp, but if the amp will stay this low, her damage needs something else. I agree with adding defense ignore on her skills with mod infernal blade. Also, making bod infernal blade a big bossing skill would also be cool. Make it look like the end of her master skill 4 slash, and add explosions in a large AoE for the rest of the damage.

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Rune master has 50% ignore with Phoenix, and good party amp too

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Plus his red skills get a 40% damage amp with his system. 😞

slender nacelle
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the fact that she was at her strongest when that bug to infernal also ignore the defense to her other skills was still there though, LOL

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might as well make it a feature at this point

slender nacelle
# wise leaf Says who owo

i mean, im definitely all for it if they make her super broken lmao. make my main the strongest character in the game, id LOVE that
but seriously, though, im just saying thats not what i expect out of these. i just want her to be stronger

wise leaf
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XD

crisp badge
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@slender nacelle

slender nacelle
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dam rngesus was on your side

crisp badge
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indeed lmaoo

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go reset flstare

slender nacelle
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petition to turn rising burst into an annihilation skill so i can slot it instead of blazing dance

spring trail
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I don't even slot Blazing Dance anymore

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it's so slow even if the dps is okay for the skill

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being in a 6 year long cutscene is awful

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on such a small hurtbox as well

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Petition to change Blazing Dance [Mod] into a larger aoe skill that doesn't track but hits a predefined area in a pattern, ending with a large fire explosion. Like an actual dance

slender nacelle
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blazing dance just needs increased cast speed and more dmg

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throw in some def ignore for extra measure like laby thunder

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im thinking of sloting burst rising instead cuz it has monster dmg for a tenacity

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like its just a little worse than blazing dance LOL
only reason why dance is still there for me is cuz its an anni skill with some dmg

crisp badge
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If she could just make a flame clone of herself like immortal does for that one skill, and eliminate the cast time for herself, that would be the ideal tbh. It gives you all the damage of blazing dance mod without having to commit to 6 seconds of afk.

slender nacelle
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yes i agree with this too

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its just so strange that they decided to made you lock into an animation for so long in a skill spam meta...lol

spring trail
slender nacelle
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I've decided to replace it with burst rising

spring trail
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300mp skill / 15 sec cd +++ 30 year long animation lock VS 80 mp skill / 8 sec cd on a class that really wants to get her skills out to take advantage of her cdr

slender nacelle
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Actually, is 200mp, but yeah I agree.

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I still use it when I'm clearing, but I played through abyss and I did pretty well without mod dance on my bar. Increase the cast speed and dmg

spring trail
slender nacelle
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ahh right

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yeah thats garbage

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using rising burst is not only cheaper, but more spammable

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since its a gale tenacity

spring trail
slender nacelle
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10 times 😭

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but yeah its a beast on big bosses

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time to stack tenacity TPChuckleJustABard

spring trail
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(absolutely nothing)

slender nacelle
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the more i think about it the more i fall in love with a revamped blazing dance

if you dont want to copy immortals skill, why not make it a skill where she summons multiple firey duplicates of herself that target and rush the enemy (similar to obezaar's ult attack in henir challenge stage 6 phase 2)

slender nacelle
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also the 18% dmg inc to ignis crusher is well deserved

keen hedge
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Fix FL. She has been struggling for years.

crisp badge
#

She’s in duo DPS jail right now tbh. Identity crisis too. I was expecting a new post with feedback from this week’s balance patch soon, but until then, I’m still happy to keep giving feedback here.

Flame Lord needs an identity. She has some tools for small bossing, and some for big bosses. a bravery stacked flame lord with infernal blade can do damage greatly to small bosses, but little to no damage to large bosses. Eternal fire mod needs to be a viable option to do damage to large and massive bosses like 16-3, 18-4-3, and 19-4. The damage needs to be increased by at least 50%. And the rest of her skills need to be buffed by 30%+ across the entire board. Eternal fire already does a great job of clearing, albeit its short range for the initial fireball. More damage wouldn’t change the clear potency.

Give invincible fire a continuous damage passive, like it used to do. Extra dot would be great for her. Another 5% or 10% continuous damage in her stats will help her damage a lot, and it would thematically make sense because fire burning effects in game work similarly.

When compared to classes like bloody Queen, empire sword, and even Adrestia, flame lord lacks an identity as a class. She doesn’t do the damage a “DPS” class does, but she doesn’t buff or debuff nearly enough to consider her a debuff class, like deangelion just got for their reworks. Diangelion csn output great damage, and amp team damage by a significant amount. Empire sword also does the same. 20% all skill damage, 10% amp, and shred. As well as debuff immunity.

The damage amp on ignis crusher is a step in the right direction, but flame lord needs more damage to stand out. She has to do too much to perform even close to the level of other classes. And in some cases, she can’t even come close. Look at any FL solo vid. Even mine. As geared out as I am, I can’t hit the 2 minute runs fatal phantom hits. That’s insane. Give flame lord the damage she deserves please

slender nacelle
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she doesnt need to be busted in everything but pls

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give her the dmg to back it up

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her small bossing is very good (as "good" as fl can be that is) but her big bossing suffers because of how fireplay works

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turn mod dance into a big bosser

spring trail
# slender nacelle her small bossing is very good (as "good" as fl can be that is) but her big boss...

I sorta hate this sentence. Cause it makes it sound like there's an artificial limit imposed on FL that she can never be good.

Be away with that mentality. I want FL to be good. I want people to play her and love her like I do. I hate being mocked for being an FL, people not thinking I can do damage, and to quote half my guild:

"I didn't even notice you there."

Anyway, ahem mod blazing dance should be a copy of brandish breaker. Multiple fire copies attacking a huge area in front and behind with multiple hit zones to destroy big bosses.

#

Hell, EVEN FL's play into that mentality.

Do people not realize how much it hurts to tell people "there's no guide to FL besides just JC'ing to ES or BQ."

We know how rough of a spot FL is, and honestly.

I think AD is falling into the same rut that FL is just barely starting to climb out of.

No one should have their main class being an absolute joke. It sucks. And these revamps have helped so many classes and people who main them are elated.

I'm elated with the changes too, but... she just needs more.

Adjusting mod blazing dance into a large boss blender dps skill would help so much. She doesn't have ANY GOOD skills besides infernal blade and Eternal fire. None of them are good.

slender nacelle
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Im also not really a fan of just copying skills from other characters cuz Id like to keep some uniqueness. She doesn't need skills that look like someone else's, she needs higher dmg skills that feel like her own

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Looking back on it, that sentence is pretty jank so I'm sorry for the confusion!

spring trail
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To be fair though, it just sparked my rant of pent up feelings around FL.

I want to be able to actually recommend her without feeling like I'm dooming new players to something that no one takes, even at 7m cp for berthe.

crisp badge
#

^

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You know what really irritated me?
When I saw nova imperator, the closest character in theme to flame lord, get the best quality of life buffs any class has gotten, almost doubling his damage output and power through cast speed buffs, passive changes that actually make a difference, a useful and significant skill rework, and build properly on what his kit already does exceptionally well for him and the party.

Meanwhile flame lord got the base power change, one good mod skill, and a synergy debuff. Nothing to increase her quality of life or damage output.

slender nacelle
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id love a double to damage output

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im totally behind revamping invincible fire too =]

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youre always going to be reawakening, so the additional time added when using special actives is redundant.

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maybe that passive can be changed to fit that sub system yall want 🤔

spring trail
slender nacelle
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As long as we keep this thread alive they'll know that we aren't satisfied with the changes done so far 💪

crisp badge
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That, and I'm sending my feedback and suggestions to the customer support team tbh.

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i mean, the more places I can vent put out suggestions the better

spring trail
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And especially with what level said; if they want her to be synergy, why did they nerf her synergy 😭

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It's like they still don't know what they want her to do.

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Anyway

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#BuffFL #DoubleHerDamage

slender nacelle
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doesnt diangelion have high shred and damage?

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might as well put fl in a similar spot tbh

spring trail
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Also, I think a lot of changes need to target other skills.

  • Eternal fire needs more damage

  • Infernal blade needs its mod to actually be a mod instead of just the same thing but again.

  • soul ignition needs a big rework of the skill. It does nothing and needs way more damage. It's useless.

  • fire wall needs more damage

  • sword fire needs a rework + way more damage. Make sword fire's mod instead of a fire carpet, make it into a giant cleave of fire that washes infront of FL.

  • fireplay needs a rework + way more damage (saying it does great damage is hella cope.)

  • Ignis crusher needs more damage.

I was messing around with skill hotbars and since awakening gives you all of your buffs and soul ignition does less damage than an active on use, I removed it because it's a dead skill.

slender nacelle
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ive always wanted her to be a shredding queen but also have high damage to back it up

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take one look at her design and tell me she screams anything but dps

spring trail
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Sword fire doesn't do enough damage to warrant being on a hot bar

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Ever

slender nacelle
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ikr

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a lot of her skills can be summed up with "need more damage"

spring trail
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I mean, some of them need a fundamental rework

slender nacelle
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i never press sword fire unless literally everything else is on cooldown

spring trail
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Soul ignition is garbage

spring trail
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Or wildshock from baselesis

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Does way more damage

slender nacelle
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wild shock? LOL

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id sooner do mega buster tbh

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wildshock is too garbage

spring trail
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It's still better than sword fire

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Especially on big bosses

slender nacelle
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with soul ignition, i see two ways you can take the skill

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  1. keep it as a utility skill, but boost what it can do. add a cleanse or debuff immunity to it
  2. rage hearts power bomb
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fire wall is more of a pvp skill so its whatever. people complain to me about it all the time when i decide to give queue hell 😈

spring trail
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After cooking + the awakening changes. This is the simple, most logical path to take FL.

Over heat: after activating awakening 3+ times, enter overheat.

+dot to yourself
+massive damage buff
+massive cdr buff
-cannot gain anymore awakening

spring trail
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😭

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It's also really good annihilation management

slender nacelle
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yeah i dont have that on my bossing bar

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i dont have dance on there either lmao

spring trail
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With the low cd of firewall, it out damages most of her kit 🙃

slender nacelle
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ehhh

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if the boss can move its joever

spring trail
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Soul ignition doesn't belong on hotbar, or sword fire. (Fire wall way out damages sword fire)

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Only boss really that comes to mind is 17-5. All of abyss is fine. All of berthe is fine

slender nacelle
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18-3 naw

spring trail
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Nothing is fine in 18-3 wdym

slender nacelle
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soul ignition stays on my bar for chivalry management

spring trail
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??? Pls replace it 😭 it does nothing.

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2k% on a 16+ second counter

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Mega buster comes to mind, fire wall.

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Anything but soul ignition

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Firewall and scaldic sword are both better chiv management skills cause of low cd

slender nacelle
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i manage just fine without those

spring trail
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and better damage lol

slender nacelle
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i might use mega buster? maybe? but the issue that comes to there is the cast time. as soon as any of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (infernal, eternal, ignis, fireplay) get off cd, i use them

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and in party play, one of them is always gonna be off cooldown

spring trail
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Mega buster is really solid gonna be honest. Matches or does more than Ignis

slender nacelle
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im not gonna press firewall when i could just press any of those 4 again

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nah hold on that

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does not sound right

spring trail
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I've changed over to bravery fully so it is buffed a lot more than Ignis. Also, I don't have to worry about over jumping the enemy randomly when I get 3 speed buffs from the party wheeze

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The amount of times I've missed Ignis crusher is shameful, but its why I hate str fl so that's fine for me

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Also blazing wing mod needs to change. It is worth less than the electricity used to send this message

slender nacelle
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i took off all of my gear and str stacking stuff and mega buster doesnt do more dmg than ignis 😭

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also the animation really kills it for me

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id like for soul ignition to do more damage, but i dont think it needs a rework

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also mod wing is very very good in pvp

spring trail
slender nacelle
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i agree with it needing more damage but i still think its fine

crisp badge
#

It's not fine. It's a heavily nerfed version of what it used to be

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Soul Ignition used to send out homing fireballs with every skill used

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the damage used to be higher, too.

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It's just a buff skill now, and kind of a waste of a bravery. It's only use right now is to give blue meter. it's not good.

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Re: Ignis Crusher damage, I actually think its damage is very good for a strength skill on a low cooldown, but only now because of the 18% amp being tied to it in gale, you're essentially guaranteed to amp its damage after all multipliers by 18%, and any follow up skills. I've been debating changing my build to strength to check it out tbh.

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but back to bravery for Challenge, because Infernal damage is too juicy.

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9-10b with one skill is too good to pass up.

slender nacelle
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wdym homing fireballs?

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like the ones we have now or??

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@crisp badge

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cuz the homing fireballs from the commands are pretty useless 😂

crisp badge
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yeah mini blaze wings

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but they did like, real damage lol

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basically was Immortal's MC

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meanwhile we have Code: Ultimate, with this passive, and Queen's Throne LOL.

image.png
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balanced.

slender nacelle
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well thats a different story 😂

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thats why i said id like it to do more damage

vivid pecan
# spring trail Also, I think a lot of changes need to target other skills. - Eternal fire nee...

Ive been look8ng at this thread.

I want to support this. But, Purely pve or pvp?
Pve im down for. PVP i'd be godawfully worried.(and i know thats rich, coming from a raven who messed with elesis)
I do want to see her pve game get alot more stronger, especially some more damage amps and mag dmg incrase passives that can stack and scale.

-I want mod blazing dance to have more power or a consistent pressence. Its funny to use in pve(long ish freeze frame and cool animation) and pvp, but to get its full dmg out take quite long.

-Mod infernal blade should have a different animation say, two hits with higher dmg multipliers while applying asd(10 to 15%) or crit dmg amps( 10 to 20%)

slender nacelle
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one massive hit is fine

vivid pecan
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Also, bump.

Live Thread, LIIIIVE

slender nacelle
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i play pvp on fl so i do have that in mind as well

vivid pecan
# slender nacelle i play pvp on fl so i do have that in mind as well

I'll be blunt.

If pvp is considered, i do hope for some pvp modifier differences.

ik that fl can be strong and tho shes not the strongest, her history from bh to now is a tightrope between fine -> disgusting. A biased view from my side, but id support it , if the buffs get pvp modifiers.

Main fears is blaze wing and soul ignition homing being a absolute lockdown with no counterplay(and i do have this gripe with the renas too), but I'll keep the faith in pvp modifiers for this char.

Cause imo, every character should be a great option. Instead of a half baked KoG formula(also lf> full on adrestia support style changes. Just rip the band-aid off and make her supportive)

slender nacelle
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they nerfed blazing wing

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ik its sstill good but i havent slotted it in for a while

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as for soul ignition, yeah you can trap someone into hitstun hell, but its also really feedy

spring trail
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But I have 0 comments on pvp because it's dead to me since season 2. All my suggestions are to make her viable in pve.

crisp badge
#

Just in case these are monitored differently from the customer service chats:
Current changes: The increased magical damage taken on Ignis Crusher from 12% to 18% was a great way to increase Flame Lord's own damage, and contribute to the party's overall damage as well.

My core issues are with the creativity, and power in her other skills and kit. Here are a few suggestions, based on how other characters' kits have been treated or work:
Buff path
Flame Lord's kit is versatile, and fast, but the damage output is extremely low, especially in direct comparison with other classes of a similar role and playstyle. Empire Sword has more supporting effects than Adrestia, and does more damage than Flame Lord. Most DPS classes have 3 powerful skills, and they can use them often. Flame Lord's core skills are too weak, and she needs to set up a lot to use them properly.
Suggestions:
New System
Flame Lord could benefit from an "Inferno Skill" system, where each skill used stacks a buff for herself, giving her 1 of 3 effects:

  1. Stacking continuous damage (self)
  2. Stacking Magic Power (pt buff = (n x0.3))
  3. Stacking Polarize (self)
    This would increase her damage, while also giving her a cool system. Could also apply cool effects at max stacks, like becoming immune to debuffs! (PLEASE)

Skills in need of a rework:
Fireplay : too slow, poor damage, bad setup.
[Mod] Infernal Blade: not unique.
Avatar of fire: not useful.
Invincible Flame: useless because of reawakening rework (make it continuous damage instead!)
Burning Flower: return Magical Attack power to 20% for this passive.
Fire Wall: (Personal greedy ask SCsmug) Add a "Healing Flame" effect (xHP/second per 400k CP (max 8%) while Fire Wall is active, increase size, continuous debuff removal / immunity while within the wall, and reduce damage for party while inside Fire Wall.

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Just some cool ideas. She already "heals" from fire-related damage below 50% I don't think a healing fire effect is too far-fetched. especially for a little baby skill like Fire wall.

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Also Milio from League of Legends exists. His healing is literally just a little living fireball walking close to his team and healing.

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Healer 🔥 Healer

slender nacelle
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that buff to wall kindaa 👀

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im down for it

crisp badge
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fr fr

slender nacelle
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just add the new system to invincible flame

spring trail
# crisp badge Just in case these are monitored differently from the customer service chats: Cu...

I agree but, mentioned earlier would add:

Sword fire needs to be better. It's garbage. Rework pls

Blazing dance needs to be better, it's garbage. Rework mod pls

Blazing wing needs to be better, it's garbage. Rework mod pls

Soul ignition needs to be better, it's garbage. Increase damage + additional effects + increase area again

I personally prefer the idea of adjusting the "inferno" system to match her awakening, because she is the only elesis to get a transformation.

  • invincible flame: after awakening 3 times, gain overheat:

massive damage buff +30% or so damage
massive cdr buff -30%cdr
can no longer awaken
awakening is shortened to 20 seconds.
effect lasts until awakening ends

crisp badge
# spring trail I agree but, mentioned earlier would add: Sword fire needs to be better. It's ...

Agree. Suggestions for rework / mod:
Sword Fire: could possibly provide a team mag power buff, doesn't have to be large.

Blazing Dance: Clone idea from Immortal's kit, tbh. great small bossing tool, and good in general.

Blazing Wing mod: pierce effect, until duration / range runs out. also change an effect to increase travel distance / time, so it's in line with Adrestia and BQ's multi-tracking skills.

Soul Ignition: Base damage increase from ignite, and homing blaze wings, and allow blaze wings to be triggered by active/ special actives, Active/Tenacity/Strength/Bravery 1/1/2/3 wings

Invincible flame: Overheat / Inferno system as described

Effect lasts 20 seconds, then lose half stacks

spring trail
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Soul ignition and sword fire are in most desperate need for a rework/massive overhaul. Because they don't have a purpose. They're both replaced with awakening and don't have the damage to warrant using them. At all ever

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I really think having FL play with the idea of reawakening, like "getting the engine started" and then when she gets going she just goes, and then losing that buff and having to rebuild it seems appropriate thematically for her

crisp badge
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I think it conflicts with her "mastery" of fire, as Flame Lord though. the Inferno passive already gives that "jumpstart" feeling. all you really have to do after that is use mod infernal to get defense shred as quickly as possible

spring trail
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That's fair.

vivid pecan
crisp badge
spring trail
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I think the fire wall change is really necessary though. Especially if it plays around her being inside of it.

vivid pecan
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btw, how did you guys change your names? I like what you guys are doing.

spring trail
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Hell, you could go so far as making it a party buff to lean more into synergy. Make fl a party heal cleanse synergy support dps just to make her even more confused as to what her role is stare

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#name-change-requests

vivid pecan
spring trail
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We ball, FL sure doesn't 😭 she only catches L's and F's in the chat

slender nacelle
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i can see the hp thing for firewall being helpful in pvp

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also replace heart of fire's [master of fire] effect into something else

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not helpful.

image.png
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im thinking you get dark flame from rosso/ran when they set the floor ablaze?

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but in the context of endgame, its more of a one shot deal

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supports definitely help with that, but it just makes this part of the passive useless

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youre never getting this in normal play lmao

crisp badge
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Well, the issue is you’re not immune to debuffs from rosso

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Even in challenge

slender nacelle
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people in pvp also dont run burning soooooo

crisp badge
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I run burning, but that’s only because FL crushes fire resist SCsmug

slender nacelle
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i thought this meant if you get a burning status debuff

crisp badge
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You recover the damage you would take from it

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But your fire resist is usually maxed so

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Kind of cope

slender nacelle
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yeah just change it to something elser

crisp badge
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Yeah

slender nacelle
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imagine if we also got an additional boost when we awakened

crisp badge
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Flame lord has too many useless or counterproductive passives. Invincible flame is useless now, mistress of inferno is only good for ignis crusher, heart of fire is only for PvP, and has little to no effect in pve content.

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I thought the whole point of the balance patch was to fix a lot of useless passives like this

slender nacelle
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heart of fire has 30% attack powerincrease

crisp badge
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Well, the last effect from it

slender nacelle
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but master of fire is garbage yeah

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its not gonna proc in pvp cuz people are running dark/wind/water

crisp badge
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Yeah

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Gg

slender nacelle
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we still have awk will only applying to actives and commands

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👨‍🦯

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its like they throw buffs on but dont take a look at the bigger picture

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they gave us reawakening but didnt think of how it would affect invincible fire

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they got rid of eternal fire's debuff and fireplays blaze debuff, rendering avatar of fire completely useless (even before they nerfed the mp gain)

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they allow genesis to use sin cleaver on the ground but leave ignis crusher only available in mid air because????

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if this character was made in 2021-2024 more thought would have been put into these patches

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also ive noticed that we have a lot of things that ignore guard

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apart from comet crusaders guard skill where the hell does that even come to play

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another outdated piece thats still in our arsenal for some reason

toxic bluff
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I haven't played FL but ignis crusher look so awkward. Even if it's cast-able on ground you would still need to jump for a good hit. It just feels awkward to have to jump in the middle of your rotation. Felt like this skill should've had an update.

slender nacelle
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oh yes, please remove unmod's second jump@

spring trail
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#1204962659674357771 I made a thread in suggestions because they may look at that too. Because this is only feedback on the original rework, not a channel for what we need as another entire rework.

stone mulch
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I've been using it for additional change feedback as well. 🙂

slender nacelle
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i love u axthen ❤️‍🔥

spring trail
spring trail
stone mulch
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I already read the thread

spring trail
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Dang hes a fast reader

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it totally didn't take me an hour to write it all

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I wanted to include as many suggestions as we've seen here without being to biased towards mine or anyone else's

crisp badge
misty salmon
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Been spending a lot of time testing and playing with the BQ changes. I think the changes have been overall helpful and I've been enjoying some of the new things added. I do think there is some more that could be added/adjusted. (From a PVE Angle, I do not engage with PVP very often)

  • Blood Storm Cast Time
    I am aware BQ's damage is already fairly high and something like this could massively boost her damage but I would like to address this from more of a QoL angle. The main frustration from my perspective is the time between casting the skill and when the skill actually hits something. There is a fairly large time where your HP has already been sapped but the skill hasn't hit anything and you haven't healed thanks to the long windup time. This results in a fairly common occurrence where you are losing a SoT/Res since being at 20% HP is basically a guaranteed death in later content like Abyss/Monaterra when everything hits fairly hard. With her other skills this is fairly manageable and is a fun risk/reword playstyle since they cast much quicker and allow for many quick followup options to keep yourself topped up on HP. Blood Storm doesn't particularly have that luxury and is reliant on Blood Swamp (IMO a very obnoxious skill to use that also handicaps your DPS), hoping your healer can give you just enough HP to survive until Storm starts hitting, or hoping your quick enough to pop a potion. Either increasing the speed of the skill or reducing the animation lock time where she can't do any other actions shorter.

  • Non-Blood Hit Skills (Ejection Buster, Blood Swamp, Brandish Breaker, Shadow Edge, Blood Sting, and Shade)
    I still am extremely confused on why none of these skills are blood hit skills (Especially Brandish) given how all of these skills thematically should fit the character archetype of her 3rd path. While this would massively increase the listed skills damage, I'd be perfectly fine with adjusting the damage numbers of those skills so they end up doing similar damage to current patch. I get more confused with changes/buffs to skills like Ejection Buster where they'd never see the light of day outside of clearing/farming. Making these skills Blood Hit skills could also potentially vary up BQ's standard skill bar and would be much more exciting and fun to play with if they could synergize with her Blood Hit related passives.

  • Brutal Cutter/Berserk Passive
    Mostly asking for a tooltip clarification with Brutal Cutter/Sword of the Abyss. The listed buffs for using Brutal Cutter twice (Sword of the Abyss) include a duration increase (fine), increased chance of double hit (fine/I assume mostly a PVP thing), and Normal Close-Range Attack increased by 10%. I am not entirely sure what that last buff does or what attacks it includes. I assume it's command damage? A tooltip clarification would be nice. For the Berserk Passive I think a neat change would be adding an additional buff or something for being in Sword of the Abyss mode rather then just Brutal Cutter. I think it would incentivize BQ's to upkeep Sword of the Abyss buffs rather then just staying with Brutal Cutter.

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  • Chivalry
    Mostly an Elesis suggestion rather then a BQ specific thing. Could the timer between switching modes be reduced? Reducing the time between switching modes would be a major QOL improvement especially for fast casting paths. Something like this would easily incentivize more skillful play/gauge management rather then just constantly sticking with 1 mode to upkeep DPS. If you happen to be switching between Gale, Annihilation, and back to Gale in a quick timeframe its very common that you'll have to wait around for you to switch modes again which quickly adds up over the course of a run. Also, in comparison to Elsword, the Chivalry gauge feels much more underwhelming aside from Gale modes CDR/Action Speed. I think adding additional benefits or buffs to casting skills in the correct mode would also help incentivize more skillful piloting. (P.S. Annihilation has a typo in the tooltip when hovering your mouse over the gauge. One of the words is spelled as "Annnihilation" with 3 n's)

Overall though, I am fairly happy with the direction this latest patch took. The Blood Thirst passive change in particular has added a nice synergetic component to her kit when being a selfish character is generally not as beneficial in the current meta compared to full party synergetic DPS's. This also helps out newer players who are unable to solo since they can now bring something to the party without being a drag.

spring trail
# misty salmon Been spending a lot of time testing and playing with the BQ changes. I think the...

For your second point, if Brandish breaker was blood hit it would be the single most busted skill in the game. Brandish Breaker Mod already outdamages Blood storm without any stacking. It is her single best damage skill now (and probably in the game).

The attached damage snip is on the long training dummy, which only gets hit in three spots. It can do upwards of 2x-3x as much damage on biggers bosses.

image.png
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That's with 12x stacking on blood storm, btw

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It comes no where close to Brandish breaker

misty salmon
spring trail
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Personally, I sorta like having BB[Mod] not being blood hit? The only reason for that is because it sorta 'resets my rotation' so I can keep track of where I am in fights better, honestly.

misty salmon
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?

spring trail
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I think it's just a style thing. I'm an FL main tho so like 3HC_shrug

misty salmon
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I suppose? There is no drawback to not being a blood hit since blood hits only provide benefits

spring trail
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Yeah, I never said there was a draw back lol

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It's a mental preference for me

misty salmon
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Fair but I'm throwing in a massive ?

spring trail
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And like, it prevents her rotation from being blood storm > brandish breaker > blood storm

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Because you would have to nerf BB into the dirt

misty salmon
spring trail
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to make it reasonable.

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She's already the best dps in the game

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letting her spam blood storm > brandish would be

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absurd

misty salmon
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RI is right there but I do agree she is one of the best DPS's in the game

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thats why I tried to keep a bit closer to passive synergy/QoL reasoning rather then just

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"buff my damage"

spring trail
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Optimal use of brandish just... puts RI into the dirt honestly. Especially with a stacked team of CDA? Oh RaS my beloved

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Best thing a BQ can do is get a pocket RaS just to fully dump Blood storm off your hot bar

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since blood fall technically does more damage, it's just not gale

spring trail
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I'm just suddenly ranting now LOL

compact grailBOT
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cyboshi has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

misty salmon
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xd, well I'm always down for listening to rants

spring trail
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RIP

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got bott'd

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I do heavily agree with the suggestion on chivalry though. Making it faster to swap between the two would be

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so nice

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Like even a 0.1 or 0.2 second speed up

misty salmon
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Yeah, I'd really appreciate adding more depth/expression to good gauge management and with current time limits between switching modes, its not heavily used outside of AdR since there isn't much reward for it

spring trail
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Also, do you know how to speed up Blood Storm cast speed

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cause I still haven't figured out what affects Blood storm cast speed.

misty salmon
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Bringing a DA 💀

spring trail
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Nah

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DA does jack for Blood storm

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that was the first I tested

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Action speed/All speed doesn't effect Blood Storm

misty salmon
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It does help everything else but I wish there was more clarification in game about speeds/cast times/animation lockouts etc.

spring trail
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Even ludicrous 200%+

spring trail
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but you've seen it right? Where it just goes... really REALLY fast sometimes?

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I've been trying to nail down what does it

misty salmon
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Mhm, for me it only happens when im partied with a DA tho. I don't ever see it with RaS

spring trail
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Really?

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I feel like I only ever see it with RaS

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😭

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It's probably bugged behaviour honestly

misty salmon
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but in reality I've got no clue specifically what causes it cuz I've seen it happen even when feather crest isn't applied

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Its super weird

spring trail
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I also see it solo

misty salmon
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I assume its a bug?

spring trail
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I'm pretty sure it is

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I just wanted to figure out what does it

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I think it's BQ herself honestly

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something she does breaks the game I think

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cause I've done it in solo runs

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and I'm like "WHAT IS CAUSING THIS"

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Like, single player runs

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cause I got a full raid party of supports just to test buffs and none of them actually impacted Blood storm

misty salmon
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I almost wonder if its tied to the multi hit/desync'ing issues when that many multi hits are calculated by the game

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since Storm has seen its fair share of exploits on server ends

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but I have no evidence to say for sure

spring trail
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probably 3HC_shrug

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I'm just a sad FL main where none of my skills do damage.

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I just played bq to finish BnW

misty salmon
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Understandable, I do hope FL gets some help

spring trail
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Got down to a 1:50 15-6 run tho as bq

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She's insane.

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And makes the game so free

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even abyss

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actually dead brain piloting tbh

misty salmon
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idr my best time but its something in the 1:30s? I think

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I haven't looked in a while

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Haven't experiemented with speedrunning Berthe very much. Recently been attempting more 18-4 speedruns

spring trail
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valid

misty salmon
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quickest we got with our weird party was a 4:10

spring trail
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brandish breaker eats 18-4-3 for dinner 😭

misty salmon
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SH BQ RaS APS

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I suppose another note for feedback

  • I love new brandish it hits so hard its insane.
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Debating on changing all my tene skill lines to Brandish stacking

spring trail
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It's worth it.

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I don't know why every bq hasn't already

misty salmon
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I've been lazy

spring trail
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"BuT BlOoD StOrM iS GaLe" MY BROTHER IN CHRIST

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YOU NEED 5 BLOOD STORMS FOR ONE BRANDISH BREAKER

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😭

misty salmon
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Ain't like your missing out on damage if you cast Brandish in gale mode anyways

spring trail
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Also with resets from CDR brandish breaker is faster to cast

misty salmon
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another reason why I proposed Chivalry changes

spring trail
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you just dump damage

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Blood storm kills you more times than not since it annimation locks you for a year and a half

misty salmon
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mhm, Maybe a new wave might be Brandish stacking and moving to Ceru line 3 instead of titan slayer

spring trail
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Nah

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while it's a meme

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the higher your damage, the more titan slayer is better and the more unhinged ceru is

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because of probility, ceru is better for longer fights, but when you have a short 3-4 minute right, where you hope you see like 10 resets?

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not worth it

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If you're in a 40 minute raid? Ceru is just a 20% damage increase because it averages out easier

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in short fights, it could be a 500% damage increase with 5 resets

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or 0%

misty salmon
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Would require a lot of testing to say for sure, I'm too lazy to try rerolling all my line 3s

spring trail
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IT's not even testing 😭

misty salmon
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but definitely gonna be experimenting with Brandish stacking

spring trail
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This is well known statistics and probability math

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Titan slayer is better for fast kill high dps characters

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Especially with brandish breaker

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because 8% increase to what is a 200,000%+ skill

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is nuts

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(Blood storm is 80k%)

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Percent increases non-linearly favor huge % skills

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which is why I stacked brandish breaker

misty salmon
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mhm, would require a tiny change in rotation and throwing out injection to drop your hp for a sec so you can chunk a boss

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or whatever else skill you decide to use

spring trail
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I think I used injection? I used the funny lil punch.

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forget its name

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cause you can just turn to use it

misty salmon
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assault strike?

spring trail
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yeeee

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injection I think can hit behind you

misty salmon
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Only reason I dont use it is because its an active skill

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so it has a 60% to heal you

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and you stay at full hp

spring trail
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oh really? huh. I never had that happen to me. either I'm just stupid, or just never noticed

misty salmon
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I do use it in my damage roation after brandish only to reactivate blood hit next skill dmg %

spring trail
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blood fall moment

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I mean, besides shade illusion and cutter, the entire hot bar is just more blood hit to decrease cooldown

misty salmon
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yeah this passive

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forgot name of it

spring trail
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well yeah,

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that's why you turn

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so assualt strike doesn't hit

misty salmon
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I suppose but i'll just stick to either red gauge blood explosion or injection since thats what im used to

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but same objective at the end of the day

spring trail
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that's valid

misty salmon
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which is to drop a nuke

spring trail
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Have you used

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brandish breaker in pvp yet

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(spoilers)

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(it one shots everyone in the game)

misty salmon
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I dont engage very much in pvp

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but I am aware of getting beat up for 90% and then just

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one tapping anything in the same zip code as you

spring trail
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Sometimes, you can one tap someone in a different zipcode, too

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if the map is small enough

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legit no where safe in the game on a small map from BQ

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you actually just lose

misty salmon
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Anyways I've said my piece. Truly the 2 biggest changes I'd like is Chivalry gauge changes and Blood Storm Cast Time if I really had to pick my main gripes with the character at this current moment.

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I shall now head to sleep T_T

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(If you're reading everything here GM Raiden I appreciate your time)

crisp badge
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It's been a little over two weeks boys.
New balance is out for the next set of characters.... Revision up for KR in two weeks... that's when we'll see if our feedback has been heard at all.

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Also noting that Devi received almost the exact synergy debuffs that FL got with no reductions to her already powerful kit. mag def shred and 18% Magic damage amplification.

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A class with much higher damage output than FL, btw.

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So I have hopes for the announcement for revisions. It will also solidify for me whether they're listening to us, or just the KR community. I've been hounding the forums, and nothing for FL has been said in KR. Meanwhile, a ton of feedback has been shared here in the NA community. I don't need acknowledgement of our feedback from KR if there are buffs to FL. But if nothing has changed, I'm going to need some answers.

slender nacelle
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Daybreaker also got to keep her arrow mastery passive with no nerfs, so we deserve that buff to Awakened Will

crisp badge
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^

crisp badge
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Praying my wishes have been granted this week.

slender nacelle
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same

toxic bluff
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I've been seeing bravery FL but I'm kinda dont like the idea going bravery since she only has 2 buttons for dmg, it just feels weird :((

slender nacelle
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bravery fl is an option, but that doesnt make ignis/fireplay obsolete

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theyre still part of the four horsemen of the apocalypse

crisp badge
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Honestly, i'd only suggest Bravery FL for 18-2, 18-3, and challenge mode. Also ERP farming

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Strength does well in rapidfire low defense content

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also if you have lower ERP, strength is way more ERP friendly

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Bravery requires a lot of cooldown

open widget
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is FL really that bad? im AD right now but thinking of changing to FL coz she sucks in dealing damage, where she 'should' shine (from cobodex)

slender nacelle
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Her Achilles heel is having low %s (that they still haven't bothered trying to fix)

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If you like her, go for it

crisp badge
# open widget is FL really that bad? im AD right now but thinking of changing to FL coz she su...

Adrestia is a very high ERP character. If you're not at least 400, it's going to be rough cooldowns all day. And if you're above 400, but under 500, it's the MP cost that hurts a lot, too.
FL is in a bit of an identity crisis. every other DPS has a clear cut skill damage type. Strength or Bravery. FL can do either, but for different reasons. Bravery is basically challege-level gameplay, or high defense content like 18-2 or 18-3. a little worse in 18-1 and 18-4 because their defenses are lower, and infernal blade pierce isn't as valuable.

Strength gives still the most consistent output across most content, but it still has its flaws. her two main skills for damage require quality of life changes desperately. fireplay takes 4 seconds to do damage, even though the casting speed is basically instant. Ignis Crusher requires you to jump, or make use of platforms to maximize its damage, and the mod for it cuts the damage by a significant amount, so it's worse for DPSing in raids.

open widget
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ohh now i get it, maybe those are the reasons why im not seeing any FL in our server. AD is also scarce. is it good i just change to ES like everyone else or stay AD? actually i hate the idea of changing class just because the current class sucks, i really want AD as of now, i cant even deal damage on abyss, and being forced by other players to wear elri shoes instead

crisp badge
# open widget ohh now i get it, maybe those are the reasons why im not seeing any FL in our se...

ES is an excellent option. Even if you’re not top damage, you’re able to provide significant bonuses to the party. If you enjoy empire sword’s playstyle, go for it. She doesn’t have as heavy cooldown issues as adrestia, but you might find yourself running into cooldowns, because her skills are extremely fast now. Empire Sword is by far the best synergy DPS of the Elesis classes. And if you’re playing her as full support, you’ll find the attack support numbers are so high 😆

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Will most likely be getting a job change event when the patch drops for us, so hold out until then

slender nacelle
open widget
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hmm, alright, seems like there's no other options unless i change to ES then, im only at 308 erp so maybe that's why im pretty weak, even with the passive 'unchanging', cda cant keep up with the cooldowns. there's only 4 gale skills that activates divinus manus and 2 of them are useless. adding 'setting sun' title will only extend a little bit from her downtime, im using reset teneb but still the cd is really something.

the other buff on the same passive, which activates after using 3 annihilation with divinus manus, is like only +15% asd, comparing it to ES, with only 1 click of war prelude with the same effect plus more.

def shred skill elimination has lengthy cd with only 10sec duration with only 20% mag def, comparing to again to ES, giga blast was it? same skill type 'bravery' but has 30% not only on magic, but also phys def shred as well, plus the effect can be extended by the active skill.

the only good thing about AD is that, the chivalry gauge does not move on awake 3, and got indirectly buff after the re-awakening. so yeah, unli annihilation skills without checking the gauge.

here's hoping she could get a buff like reducing the number of divinus manus skills required for unchanging passive, also a plus if it can be reactivated when triggered again. lastly, if cda could be adjusted from 1.2 to 1.5 or 2, maybe she can be playable by low ERPs duds like me.

if the free class change comes up, ima switch to ES, maybe i'll come back to AD after reaching 400+ erp or got a rework that fixes her problems. thank you buff fl guys. i also hope FL get a huge buff as well

spring trail
# crisp badge Adrestia is a very high ERP character. If you're not at least 400, it's going to...

I will always Stan Bravery FL. Even if STR get's buffed, as long as Ignis Crusher and Fireplay stay the same, I'll never play Str FL. No matter how good it is. I hate using IC. If it had a consistent jump height? Okay, sure, it'd be better. If it was just a vertical increase? okay, sure.

Inconsistent height increase + weird angle? Nah fam. I absolutely despise IC. The amount of times something just WALKS UNDER IC makes me want to remove the skill from my skillbar. I would if FL had any actually good skills. She doesn't.

The '4 horse men of the apocalypse' is more so a commentary on how poor all of FL's skills are comparatively to A) the 4 horsemen, and B) anything else. The only other high damage skill FL has is Rising Burst; a tenacity skill, is her 5th highest damaging skill. Even from all the other strength skills. (I take mega buster and since I'm brv it does out damage rising burst.)

FL just needs the rest of her kit brought up to being usable. I haven't used sword fire for 3 years. Soul Ignition, no matter what anyone says, is awful. It's 2000% damage. her commands almost hit harder than that.

Eternal fire is too much fun, and full stacking Infernal Blade hits like an absolute truck.

slender nacelle
#

I mean she has mod dance too
That'll do dmg but the fact that it takes 6 seconds to cast is 🗿

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Everything in her kit suffers from low dmg so its pretty redundant to bring it up

wise leaf
slender nacelle
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I love ignis personally. Itd be real great if they could remove the need to be in the air and the extra hop from unmod

wise leaf
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I like being able to use my skills in the air cuz it makes the char more fluid ... But I hate being forced to only use it in the air cuz it takes away from that fluidness

crisp badge
#

Yeah someone basically just said Genesis got the ignis crusher we deserved tbh. Sin Cleaver casts almost identically to mod ignis, but he’s not forced to jump for it.

slender nacelle
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yeah i said that 😂

crisp badge
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😆

slender nacelle
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ignis crusher reskinned but he can use it on the floor

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makes me mald

crisp badge
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It’s been so long PES_Old

crisp badge
#

Months of feedback from NA, waiting for our voices to be heard, only for absolutely nothing to get changed.
It really is over.

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FL 🗑️

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I don’t know what play data they say they’re using, I don’t know why they say they listen to other regions

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Thanks for nothing KOG. We got nothing for the character we had the most feedback about, that literally everyone and their mother has said is the absolute worst of the DPS classes

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CRAZY.

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I’m so irritated.

slender nacelle
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Same

void holly
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You were right @crisp badge they are listening gj

crisp badge
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It’s confirmed though

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This was the confirmation I needed

void holly
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i know it months ago

slender nacelle
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ill still have hope like the fool i am

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but i will say this is a horrible look

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if you expect us to belive yall look at these threads, then we need to see some bigger changes

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but if this keeps going on then ill believe these threads are like a fart in the wind

stinks at first but forgotten about

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and it would be really nice if yall were more transparent on where you get your data from

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its clear that youre not getting squat for fl on the korean side of things

crisp badge
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^

slender nacelle
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we wait months for buffs and yall hype it up acting like youre going to make meaningful changes that fix core issues

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but youre just twiddling your thumbs

crisp badge
#

Honestly I’m just contemplating a full quit.

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I’ve essentially beat the game. There’s just challenge, and that’s just too difficult to form

slender nacelle
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i wont be quitting any time soon but this is beyond disappointing

crisp badge
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Once you finish your armors and stuff, you’ll feel it more

slender nacelle
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yeah theres not much content outside of challenge

crisp badge
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It’s just bad

slender nacelle
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at least i have pvp

crisp badge
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All the investment seems to go into other games

slender nacelle
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but after months of feedback here the best yall can muster is a crit increase in pvp? really? 💀

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i wont be done with my armor for a while

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need all these dam chlorites

spring trail
#

In one of the very very rare instances where I find someone with almost exactly the same gear as myself, I can confirm. She's pretty dumpstered right now.

Doing over 40% less damage compared to an MO that has 5 less adapt in Ran is... pathetic.

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LIke yes, I know we all know her damage is pathetic.

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But comparatively, apples to apples, she just does 40% less damage than a real DPS.

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(That's including her support numbers)

crisp badge
#

Nice revision.

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44% damage increase to her skill that already does more damage than anything in FL's kit

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and another 5% special active damage increase.

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nice increase.

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gz AD mains that stuck it out

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wb AD flakers 😂

slender nacelle
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whats keeping me on is that 1: fl is really fun and 2: im holding out hope that they start touching numbers after all these patches are done

wise leaf
wise leaf
crisp badge
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gonna be waiting a while.

wise leaf
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next year kek

wise leaf
crisp badge
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We need more mod force passive slots Sleep

wise leaf
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mod not force

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owo

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mod passives would get messy

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we already have to change enough between some mod skills and gear swapping for optimal DPS