🙏 i appreciate it
#pvp
celest ore
mystic elbow
but yea that's just how some ppl like playing
buoyant folio
Also wouldn't playstyle before s definition of being aggressive, passuve, or tactful
Oml my mobile is butchering everything I say rn
mystic elbow
no its quite literally the manner in how someone plays a game
limiting it to aggressive, passive or tactful isn't a good idea
buoyant folio
The thing with playstyle as a word is how odd it works in terms of gaming
mystic elbow
esp if yall not seeing it coming
buoyant folio
Bc we could be debating about this all day and I couldn't completely deny your words
But I don't think you could either
celest ore
i hit some aisha so hard once they genuinely got stuck in the air for like 5 seconds and i didnt know what happened
mystic elbow
i think its that simple
buoyant folio
Yes I get what you mean man
fiery lionBOT
bigwoofles has been warned
mystic elbow
smoked
buoyant folio
Nice job
celest ore
😎
mystic elbow
There was a time
I was fighting that
+13 raven
and since shakti has no backstep I have no choice but to clash
I got hit with dev strike
lived
he went into obten
but then for some reason
used fog
and then got hit w/ the spell thunder > secret arts combo
and died
🙂
mystic elbow
i want to get back into playing devi
kindred frost
I'm not sure honestly, but it does feel like a pipe dream yeah. Idk cause elsword does have quite a unique concept I have yet to see recreated. I think that has some merit but idk how much merit
ah I see were living in a society again
celest ore
LOL
kindred frost
I haven't read everything but I see Cassis point and to an extent I think I understand and agree
For me, I do get having one shot as a way of playing, and the concept of allowing all forms of game playing being available.
Just think if one shotting/bursting is gonna remain, we should better refine other methods to make other styles equal and balanced
mystic elbow
Ngl the one shot method
isn't as bad
as ppl think
only bc the ppl who one shot
tend to be 💩
at the game
so after they miss the one shot they don't know what to do with themselves
buoyant folio
Yeah they do suck
No one is denying that fr
But considering how buggy/laggy the game can be, them getting the hit on you shouldn't be too hard
kindred frost
So if someone wants to gear it up and one shot ppl, they still can but the lesser gear can have more tools to better counter the one shot.
Truthfully what would be Ideal for me is more support for the lesser gear but still very skilled. It really is a yucky feeling when you mind gaming Hella hard and you lose to one mistake. At the very least I'd want more leeway
mystic elbow
well oracle a lot of classes
have buttons
to avoid one shots
Every class has a tenacity
Using a tenacity as clash can avoid a one shot
celest ore
provoke be like
kindred frost
That is true. When I say this I really keep thinking back at the fight with Master mainly. I guess I mean extreme cases like that. I was playing my 100% bro and it just wasn't enough
buoyant folio
tbh
mystic elbow
oh that mpx
buoyant folio
for master you can't really "avoid" his one shot cuz it's regular maxi
kindred frost
Now maybe I will say a potential factor is my personal skill limit with piloting my class too
buoyant folio
You could always bait him into throwing out his maxi but that usually won't work out for you
mystic elbow
yea maxi u have no choice but to mb it or pray
kindred frost
for master you can't really "avoid" his one shot cuz it's regular maxi
Yeah that's what I'm saying it's like
What do you do man
mystic elbow
im mostly talking about
classes like
RH
and LiB
usually I run
💀
tho as CA running will be easier for u
than me on Ara
kindred frost
Brb
clever sigil
To talk about these three points here,
Tl;dr:
-respect to those grinding.
-To those who dont want to grind:Try, and find the right methods and(or) environment that'll push you.
-to the ignorant: i understand, yet have to ask you "why?" Is it arena principles? Or protest? Or just not wanting to?
Non tl;dr:
Pure salute to those who are working thair butts off.
To group two(dont wanna grind but know what to do:) they should at least give it a shot and try to farm what they can. If the long term plan or farming action doesnt seem compounding enough, some more pointers or ideas would be needed(say alchemist profession as a side role for the ed gain as those elixirs is somewhat volatile unless events give em out.) Or a different pathway, say alt supp characters for mystic farming rosso.
If its the environment, you may have to kill the hesitation and find a dedicated pve guild/ familia-style guild.(thats what happened with my Es -> RV, again I will NOT stop giving gratitude to SK. )
As for number three? They know what they gotta do. My question to them, is it principle? Or being against how...wild the current way arena has gotten?
I admit that's how I've been back then, while accepting that people will use what they gotta use.
But at the same time, I could see why they harbor a problem with gear, cause jesus christ. . . In the right hands, you can make a player despise the game with a single match. (I've had it happen to a KE i fought, pretty much he said "I'm what is wrong with arena" yet I didnt use any void wep and above, nor one shotted).
I don't know what they want to do. But i grasp that you cannot control what people do or think. Worst case is them feeling the burnout, or possible vets that are tired of having to switch gear, re-invest or shag out KC.
It's also why I wonder, how can pvp be balanced out or attractive to the current playerbase, or newer players, or what would be a better incentive for more people to play arena?
buoyant folio
Balancing out pvp mode would be hard bc this playerbase can never agree with each other lol
clever sigil
I'll try to work on typing less. I just believe that bringing some deeper points may give insight to the discussion.
buoyant folio
However I think a good starting point would be duelist weapon
with an actual pvp method of enhancing said gear
they could simply cap it like +10 like previous set, or further 
mystic elbow
To talk about these three points here,
Tl;dr:
-respect to those grinding.
-...
for #2 I firmly believe that if you are playing a game that you do not feel motivated to work on yourself
in terms of skill
or gear if it needs it
and the lack of those things is causing u to not have fun
celest ore
I'll try to work on typing less. I just believe that bringing some deeper points...
i dont think anyone minds
clever sigil
So if someone wants to gear it up and one shot ppl, they still can but the lesse...
Sounds like Armored Core.
mystic elbow
When I asked the question the first time and the 2nd
the ppl who proposed the stupid force skill idea
couldn't even answer it
buoyant folio
can't DB do that to a certain extent
mystic elbow
uhh
buoyant folio
ig you can just run around to avoid the reflect but man
buoyant folio
the passive increases his movement speed as well no?
celest ore
i think i'd prefer forces being gone over any new ones 💀
buoyant folio
^ Same ngl
mystic elbow
I'd keep forces
but remove ignite
and grandma actually
and LIGHTNING CHAIN
but the rest are fine to me
mystic elbow
I was fighting sm1 in spar
and their lightning chain helped me out the combo
and they got mad at me
for taking advantage of it
celest ore
LOL
buoyant folio
It is funny though
that somehow that force
can instead end up messing up the user instead
I use it, so if I get punished for it that's my own fault
celest ore
its the same risk with anything, like
thats why you dont use dancing flame weapon for example
your opponent will have 500 mp and murder you
buoyant folio
Well that's the risk with anything lag-sensitive
Surprisingly laby isn't lag sensitive despite hving a ton of hitboxes that don't seem to exist
visually that is
buoyant folio
tbf
her commands work very similar to how Add's did on release
Which were extremely broken
clever sigil
However I think a good starting point would be duelist weapon
I'd say aye to this, and see how far this goes.
buoyant folio
ahahaha
Nova giving MP without hitting an enemy was crazy
and now force finger doesn't give mana in return
HOWEVER
thanks to a passive you gain +1 Mana
- successful hit is another mana point
so we gain 2 points from using it
and if you got max MPR you gain another 5
7
mystic elbow
I think pvp weapon would help with character balance if they ever cared about pvp balance
💀
buoyant folio
Real
celest ore
it would
buoyant folio
I honestly don't get why pvp mode is so ignored
it's
still a
very popular mode
It's only dead because they don't care about it.
buoyant folio
Yeah it's like
various content in the game
is only dead bc they stopped caring about it
and they're like
uhn acktually 
the mode is.. dead cuz it's no longer popularshhsh 
mystic elbow
there's no real incentive
buoyant folio
My brother in christ, you are the reason why it's dead
mystic elbow
if they added actual incentives to being top 10
i think ppl would want to do it more
or even top 100
celest ore
honestly i think pvp is the single most addictive mode this game has even despite how busted it is
missed opportunity on their end
buoyant folio
I reach pretty close to top 100, when I'm actually going hardcore sweat lol
celest ore
tbh
buoyant folio
Yeah it's
high addictive
but most of my friends that mained pvp
quit it because kog stopped caring
celest ore
yep
buoyant folio
and I think it's safe to assume that it generally goes
for everyone else that mained pvp and quit
If you stop properly supporting a mode, don't be surprised people stop playing it
mystic elbow
i also think there should be different top 100s/10s for 2s n 1s
buoyant folio
Like
Elsword PvP streamers
are still the most popular ones to watch
Not PvE
NEVER PvE
mystic elbow
true 😭
buoyant folio
Honestly
genuinely
How does KoG miss this fact
all you have to do is open up twitch
and see the average streamer
it's all pvp
celest ore
Why would you want to watch someone grind trosh
watching someone grind trosh
good lord
i'd do that if i were tryin to sleep maybe
mystic elbow
the good pvp streamers average 30-60 ppl
buoyant folio
Honestly I'm prolly rude but
mystic elbow
but even watching small pvp streamers can be fun
mystic elbow
I could never
buoyant folio
and I always ask them why anyone would watch them
mystic elbow
😭
buoyant folio
It's literally
the most boring content ever
but oh pvp
oh my god
that's fun to watch LMAO
mystic elbow
I wanted to bang my head into the wall just by doing 17-5
75 times
to watch it would be even worse
like to sit and watch pve
buoyant folio
Yeah
buoyant folio
Why would you watch something that is already boring
pvp is exciting bc it's not predictable
celest ore
pvp is endlessly entertaining to watch
remember elsword pvp youtube sphere
buoyant folio
and there's various skill ceiling/levels that people are on
knotty kraken
streaming the lv 1-99 grind
buoyant folio
real
mystic elbow
like I can't sit there and watch RV x drop the entire match
and win every interaction for no mp
buoyant folio
I would never watch a one shotting streamer either cuz that's the most predictable fight ever
with the chance of them missing and getting defeated ofc
but eh that's not really cool to watch
celest ore
honestly
mystic elbow
Yea I don't think I could do that either
celest ore
i dont like playing 2s but i love watching it
mystic elbow
same
mystic elbow
watching 2s made me want to learn 2s
buoyant folio
MP has some amazing 2s skills though
mystic elbow
its even more gearing up tho 😒
mystic elbow
I haven't seen enough SH players do 2s
buoyant folio
it's a wasted skill slot
celest ore
HA's should have never been excluded from recieving normal skill damage boosts, at least in pve
yes that would make them extremely strong, but that's literally the point
buoyant folio
^
Exactly that
they could've easily
made it PvE exclusive
Man I miss watching ppl use HA in PvE
celest ore
yeah 😔
buoyant folio
and now all it does is waste time 
actually
there's an issue that would still arrive with ASD stacking on HA
HA's.. take too long.
buoyant folio
they would need to increase their animation speed or somethin
knotty kraken
etw's HA2 locking you into a 40 second no skill time
kindred frost
Sounds like Armored Core.
You know, this actually made me wanna try to actually use my armor core
Like actively
Tbh it more so just randomly saves me in my play style
This is why I like these convos, I learn more options
celest ore
HA's.. take too long.
i dont even be having them in my bar
its not worth accidentally pressing LOL
buoyant folio
Y'know what I find annoying about MP
Moonlight and HA don't mix well
like ik you're not supposed to be using HA anyways
but sometimes I like using it in practice mode
and ppl just 🥹 jump out
knotty kraken
why does Biology get so mad lol
mystic elbow
wdym
knotty kraken
dude started sending angry /w after he won and flagged me
knotty kraken
dude feeds mp like crazy and is throwing brav skills left and right
glass echo
Post their IP address
mystic elbow
well
glass echo
That'll shut them up
mystic elbow
u are priv
compaared to OM
for sure
but thts no reaosn
to whisp u about it
or flag rly
yea just doxx em
knotty kraken
i smoked him first round soo
buoyant folio
compared to OM?
mystic elbow
buoyant folio
Lol ofc they gave you angry whispers
knotty kraken
whiffed freeze and yellow
mystic elbow
yea that's etw compared to om
every class besides
op
is priv compared
to om
😭
buoyant folio
I.. am not sure I agree with that
knotty kraken
35 mp SA -_-
buoyant folio
He has horrible neutral but he has some really good skills
mystic elbow
yea but 1s is very very neutral heavy
knotty kraken
its snowballing like Dem
buoyant folio
I mean
mystic elbow
characters w/o good neutral
knotty kraken
get hit once
mystic elbow
struggle wayy more
warm hornet
^
knotty kraken
youre done
buoyant folio
He has super armor command that lasts a good amount, super armor skill, a skill that covers an entire screen, and a one shot
that's literally all he needs
buoyant folio
I do
I've played this game since 2014 so it's pretty hard not to
But despite any form of comparison he's good
He has no combos but he can kill
and that's all he needs.
mystic elbow
i don't think he's bad but to say other classes don't have an advantage over him
by simply having better neutral
booms
and an awk button
is criminal
buoyant folio
but also I didn't say any of those things you wrote earlier
I just simply wrote that he has the kit to kill
mystic elbow
ik u didn't
buoyant folio
Low HP? CODE YELLOW
mystic elbow
i just thought of the other two things
mystic elbow
that make classes more priv
than him
the fact u have to manage to hitstun them before nuking when legit
buoyant folio
And keep in mind
mystic elbow
all other classes
buoyant folio
This is how every OM i've fought
mystic elbow
have booms and awk buttons
buoyant folio
fights
mystic elbow
😭
buoyant folio
and usually wins
knotty kraken
i feel like the icing on the cake is that his SA skill has a hit
mystic elbow
that's great for u but I don't usually lose to OM
this is a char that has no booms, no awk time stop and no neutral
so yes compared to every char who has at least one or all of those things
every other class in the game has an advantage over OM
but still no excuse to be cringe n rude to ppl
when you're on a char that u decided to play
knotty kraken
cant wait for the re-awaken patch to come
knotty kraken
then i can really start calling people out
celest ore
pls dont remind me ..
its literally so over dude
knotty kraken
dvc is out
soul crown in
no more 5% damage down
if everyone gets the RH treatment of more damage when awk during awk in pvp im gonna riot
buoyant folio
that's great for u but I don't usually lose to OM
Let me clarify, when I say usually wins it's that they only rely on these tactics to win.
Not that I CONSTANTLY lose to them
knotty kraken
for normal dungeons sure thatd be alright
mystic elbow
yea but that's optimal for om
its not like rh who they choose to play like that
despite rh being perfectly fine
warm hornet
i've seen that luciel in the future going to have braveries treated as traditional braveries. (the ones that cost no mana now cost mana)
buoyant folio
So I don't get why they bother
There's 4 choices and they choose the one they find boring
it's just odd
mystic elbow
exactly..
esp if it's clear you're not enjoying the char
I had to go SU twice for raid and bc I don't enjoy SU
i didn't pvp
I just used alt Shakti to pvp 💀
and I hurried to get stages done
buoyant folio
ig the only reason to pvp on alts are for fighters right
hollow hound
why does Biology get so mad lol
Oh, that's the OM I have fought before that feeds mana and almost oneshots me with Code Yellow. :D
buoyant folio
knotty kraken
theres also my handicap of not using forces skills cause i think theyre too cheap
mans sitting in the WM bubble with uObten and clock
so im just there waiting 8 seconds to do anything
mystic elbow
yea sounds bout right
noble pelican
can instead end up messing up the user instead
I took lighting chain off once 1) I was told it can feed and 2) it messed up my combos 😞
buoyant folio
mhm
mystic elbow
it can feed, mess up combos and it's hand-holding
knotty kraken
i used lightning chain never >:)
noble pelican
I’ll mess up by my own accord, not by a force-passive that I gotta manage
noble pelican
i used lightning chain never >:)
5 mil for extraction
knotty kraken
lol
versed knot
The only time I had lightning chain on was when it had that juicy 2k8%
noble pelican
Aether Sage when that force was released
Going back to PVP streams, has the official channel ever did PVE-related ones?
I know the tournaments get decent views
willow mural
whiffed freeze and yellow
dw he salted me too
glass echo
for like raiding w/ Raiden
Did it get like 2 viewers or something
clever sigil
there's no real incentive
would you be down with proposing a weekly reward system for pvp? (fighter pots may exist but, i think we needa think outside that weekly quest box)
hell, maybe a daily pvp reward system?
cause even with all the gear, dmg, etc. there was a incentive back then(don't think they do this still) which was KC for the top 100 , which varied based on rank
mystic elbow
would you be down with proposing a weekly reward system for pvp? (fighter pots m...
We used to have sage stones
with rank the amount of sages was higher too
I think smth like that is good for weekly
then I believe u should have something for when reset comes
I think KC is was a fine option
clever sigil
I think smth like that is good for weekly
i say aye to this!
another thing for note, back then around S2(i missed out) S3, S4( if i recall) costumes used to be a thing.
ik that's a pipe dream, but maybe the potential of Ice burners( say around (1-20(10 if too much) may be a neat post- reset reward.
Demerit? it'll make things rather competitive....may bring out some of the....hackers who'll try to go up in the ranks, but overall, it'll be a neat incentive.
if it's diving a bit too much in the Cash department(which would potentially be why KoG won't do this) then this idea is a nay
the rationalle for Ice burners is how their IBS's , amulets, el shards provide a benefit for both. be it RNG favoring you, or not, it's a win-win as a addition to your efforts.
and if it's a potential market destroyer? Make em [luriel]. or even let them be limited by a due date/expiration.
celest ore
omg this bq is tankier than senator armstrong
sacred niche
unlike 2 people who couldn't
See, here's the reason why I don't reply or ignore your messages, but congrats, you had my attention for this bit. It's because you turn casual discussions/idea concepts into a debate like you have some sort of a problem to people who discuss about it.
I won't even bother re-battling or even explain back to you as talking to you feels like I have to bang my head on the wall to every reply.
mystic elbow
The fact of the matter is you couldn't
and neither could the other one
But you'll make takes that you can't even back up with reasoning
How was Mitsu who wasn't even part of the convo able to give solid reasoning
while also not sounding like an idiot
sacred niche
bro idc, and I won't discuss anything with you.
mystic elbow
but you can't even explain
then don't
You shouldn't even have bothered tagging me
If you don't want to talk to me then do both of us a favor
and don't-
sacred niche
sure mr I debate everyone because I have some sort of problem 👏
mystic elbow
I actually don't
have an issue i mean
but if we're gonna make takes or say stupid stuff
AT LEAST be able to back it up
or else you're just talking out your 🍑
Doesn't change any of what I said
Enjoy the rest of your day then
clever sigil
How was Mitsu who wasn't even part of the convo able to give solid reasoning
to be fair, I was reading the pvp chat earlier, Wanted to throw my two cents in. Do like seeing what people say and what everyone's thought process is.
mystic elbow
to be fair, I was reading the pvp chat earlier, Wanted to throw my two cents in....
Yea but you werent an active participant is what I meant
And you also thought out your response
knotty kraken
sure mr I debate everyone because I have some sort of problem 👏
debating with the person you dont want to debate with smh
also yall need to que
super dead
rn
mystic elbow
i think my friend is about to queue(?)
knotty kraken
ive fought the same person 8 times in a row
oblique sundial
ig i am jcing do dia again
mystic elbow
who u fightin
oblique sundial
oh nobody im just reading the patch notes
dias just gonna be whateve they are in pvp rn but actually busted in pve
knotty kraken
🙏
oblique sundial
skill features changed for demonic cannon and mod dead cross
pls tell me they just reworked the skills
knotty kraken
any thought of stacking apollyon is out the window
clever sigil
I'd like to ask if you guys would be a good idea to make an post pertaining to making PVP a little more "Livelier" or more "incentivicing" I do expect a lot of "game is dead why care?" but I'd like to see more of what people may say
out of it, im sure there's some ideas that may line-up and can be agreed upon.
heavy spear
goodbye apollyon it was fun while it lasted, i'll probably see you again when i get mpr
oblique sundial
thats okay i stack ambush
mystic elbow
I'd like to ask if you guys would be a good idea to make an post pertaining to m...
u can try it
clever sigil
bet
oblique sundial
it wont matter
dems saving grace was clocking for braveries after the first exchange
character has almost nothing else lmao
heavy spear
apollyon/oblivion costing mana is going to annoy me in pve moreso than in pvp
oblique sundial
honeslty oblivion costing mp is probably a buff in pve
character might be able to actually clear now lmao
heavy spear
in pvp it's just a reminder that i need to bother ranking erp for mpr
well
yeah i guess
oblique sundial
but damn bro the dia changes
buoyant folio
Warcrimes
clever sigil
the post may go in the graveyard, but the post/ thread is up. Hope to hear your ideas.
gonna crash, Will look at what you guys say. Be well, be golden you all.
abstract yacht
I only read like
3 sentences
uh
I dont think a reflect force would disincentivize one shots
rather it would just make ppl more careful to ensure the opponent cannot use the reflect and get one shot anyway
it wouldnt reduce the one shot meta it would just make ppl handle it slightly different
and in technicality its also not really making one shots any less present cuz reflect is essentially just making you one shot the opponent back
an innocent killing a killer keeps the same amount of killers in the world
and as I said before reflections still make you take dmg
and the one being hit always dies first from these interaction than the one taking the reflected dmg
so you're still losing either way unless revive titles so like
' -'
clever sigil
I only read like
3 sentences
uh
I dont think a reflect force would disincentivi...
the one thing about that Reflect(though it isn't happening) is how can it be procced. can it be used during a freeze frame?(usable at any moment no matter what situation you're in?) or is is treated like a normal active?
based on those two things, it's just like I said before, either the most nastiest thing in the game, or just another active counter, which is null and void by freeze frames.
also ye, People would have to change up their tactics, im sure a good amount of players would adapt to it(in the hypothetical)
besides the Case of the "reflect Force active" Im leaning towards the idea of a duelist weapon.
also duelist weapon would be able to save me ED for PVE and other items.
sacred niche
debating with the person you dont want to debate with smh
Tbh, I never even wanted that topic to be a debate, just some sort of casual discussion of an idea/concept, a ''what if'' if you want to put it that way, discussing pros and cons of said force skill if it somehow gets implemented. But that debate clown Cassian still continues to ramble on how me and AYS never bothered to answer his ''WhY GeArEd PeAoPlE hAvE tO gEt PuNiShEd hurr" question.
Anyways, dropping that one since I'll just ignore what that debate clown has to say.
as for godlike and mitsu,uhh hold on, lemme read in a sec...
clever sigil
as for godlike and mitsu,uhh hold on, lemme read in a sec...
do you thing. I just wanted to throw two fat cents, and hear people's ideas and ...potential solutions.
I do get why people want it. and, no matter who, a discussion will always be a discussion, debate a debate, as long as Ideas are said, and points are brought out. You good man o/
mystic elbow
the one thing about that Reflect(though it isn't happening) is how can it be pro...
All force actives cant be used if youre in freeze frame
So even if a force like that were added you’d still have to predict a one shot
It would help stop the person from one shotting periodically
But when we look at characters who traditionally do that esc > awk > one shot
Which is LiB and RH
They can awk multiple times
So all they’d have to do in RH case is wait
Or LiB can gather more awk charge
And then redo it
sacred niche
and as I said before reflections still make you take dmg
and the one being hit a...
Come to think of it, I remembered old Elysion Solace, Drabaki and the Trosh boss has reflect mechanic, and yeah... They do get damaged along reflecting back the used attacks. For this force they could probably re-code a different reflect property exclusively for PvP I guess... 🤔
If in-case on PvP, the reflect force active could be used on the air as well, the idea I have is you can use it even when you're in an opponent's time stop/freeze frame, which makes them think twice before going ooga booga on the 1HKO skill. Since iirc first who drops on the ground first on a draw trade loses(?)
And no worries about ''what about PVE?" force would be most likely be only usable in PvP only, using it on PvE has no reflective damage property when used. (depends on how KoG somehow codes it. )
clever sigil
So even if a force like that were added you’d still have to predict a one shot
that's a null and void then. and a problem remnant to the character in case.....
I'm gonna get a lot of hellfire barrages at me from RH's and ravens.....I'd just advocate for nerfing Deva's strike's Hit multiplier (PVP ONLY, It's A-OK FOR PVE), reducing PVP Def ignore modifiers, or just downright toning down his Dmg stacks from awaken For Only PVP.
have to stress PVP only as KoG ALWAYS(with the exception of one time) would nerf a character's skill in pvp and then gut it deeply in PVE.
mystic elbow
They're also adding re-awk to all characters so yea besides the fact the idea is broken and poorly constructed
it just wouldn't work
clever sigil
They're also adding re-awk to all characters so yea besides the fact the idea is...
yea...... Im scared for Arena rn.
clever sigil
only option I can see to balance this out is either reducing the amount of AWK charge gain you get via modifiers, for pvp(which may be complicated in their eyes or complicated period) say: 50% being the average pvp awk gain -> 15-20% for PVP.
but god, this will be a pain to balance out for Arena.
clever sigil
I fret that there's gonna be some shinenaigains they'll throw into arena with it.
and worst case, KR complains about re-awk being pve only while some characters have PVP re-awks and then boom... everyone gets a re-awaken.
mystic elbow
re-awks and booms
and lets not remember the char that'll be most broken w/ it
Rena
clever sigil
pretty much "Evade skills going from small character amount to everyone" in revamp ....Though evade skills really are "game changers"
oblique sundial
wait reawk for everyone
mystic elbow
yea
oblique sundial
mystic elbow
LOL
clever sigil
Come to think of it, I remembered old Elysion Solace, Drabaki and the Trosh boss...
ye, I could see it being ruthless if usable at any time.... I have to question whether or not KoG can, or would be willing to make that matter happen.
only things that come to mind of "unaffected by freeze frames":
Hyper armor, Demon realm bosses, Raid bosses , anti-invi frame skills( think, rosso's Big black Vine of death. ) I would have to wonder how KoG would code such thing into this game.
oblique sundial
cant wait for awk into wind blast into awk into wind blast
clever sigil
unless they got rid of NF completely
matter of fact, they could potentially put NF refunding on a Cooldown timer(PVP only), similar to NI's Last Resort, still won't do much, and I still believe this change can be RUTHLESS for this mode.
knotty kraken
wait til he goes on his alts and tries to que-snipe you
mystic elbow
he does that ...?
knotty kraken
either that or he just really like to swap characters while pvping
but some of the stuff he does on those alts is sus
continous knockdown commands is one
oblique sundial
elsword players cant just be normal
mystic elbow
continuous knockdown commands?
knotty kraken
prob not the best way of explaining
like ara throwing ^x with no follow up after a few hits
but on an ain
i dont know their commands lol
mystic elbow
ains is like >>^Z
sacred niche
ye, I could see it being ruthless if usable at any time.... I have to question w...
Hmm, for the unaffected by freeze fames afaik Ereda has it, last time I recall that place has no freeze frame/timestop on everyone. First idea I had for the reflect force that it functions same as El Clock, but the other activation property of El Clock requires you to get hit to activate it.
For the reflect force activation is you can activate it even when an opponent freeze frames you or during awaken, i.e: RH Awakens -> You get freeze framed, then you activate the Reflect Force before he clicks the Deva Strike, the only problem though is if your opponent knows the exact time/duration of the Reflect force, then that's the time he'll use a 1HKO. possible counters could be to time out Reflect force with multiple awaken, or use special actives that have longer stop frames to time out the force then 1HKO them. 🤔
Guess at the start of match we can say it has the same cooldown usage as Shattered Earth(?)/can't be used immediately at start of match. Or probably has a cooldown on its own(idk plausible cooldown at start time/insert here) as there are certain characters with high MP gain when attacked, Awaken gauge gain, and 1-Hit delete skill at early matches.
mystic elbow
oh
oblique sundial
i dont think anything would function if there were no freeze frames
mystic elbow
so he just doesn't play seriously ?
glass echo
wait reawk for everyone
Who is the idiot at KoG who decided this?
abstract yacht
Come to think of it, I remembered old Elysion Solace, Drabaki and the Trosh boss...
you uunderstand that Reflection from player to mob is dull on iitself right?
how much HP does a player have? less than a million
how much doees a mob have?
probably 40x that amount
not exactly a need to "not have pve property" when the effect sucks so bad in said content to begin with
from player to mob
not mob to player.
secondly activable mid delay sounds... ¿?¿?¿?¿? to say the least.
thirdly you're expecting too much of KoG to recode smth
fourth of all I repeat, given copypaste coding is likely, elrian/obten can avoid reflection as I once pointed days ago
this whole reflection idea is just
terrible
all around
it doesnt solve anything and is basically a "I wanna see smn go down with me" and that's just purely for lolz too cuz you still get the L
and it's also massively counterable
in fact you'd make reviving characters top tier
ever considered that?
oblique sundial
Who is the idiot at KoG who decided this?
It could be literally anyone lmao
glass echo
Typical KoG
kindred frost
back from work
anyone wanna partner up and 2v2 with me for fun?
man I am getting so much better at handling pvp salt after all these years
someone was coming at me for being bad at 2s i just blocked them
that really is all you gota do.
Like I know I suck but hey
mystic elbow
someone was coming at me for being bad at 2s i just blocked them
Funny ppl will say “stop queuing you’re 💩 “
How am I supposed to get better if I stop queuing
mystic elbow
Ugh you’re right
warm hornet
goku goes to a time chamber doesn't he?
mystic elbow
If u want to learn 2s you can probably ask in the pvp cord
kindred frost
oh heck nah im not going back in there
mystic elbow
Why’s that
mystic elbow
Well yes they are but they’ll give good info u just have to ignore it
oblique sundial
i just wanna fight someone other than the soa im
oblique sundial
no no you should be mad at lag
some people just shouldnt queue
yaknow kog could be cool
and give me more map bans
or at least do something to stop the game from just replaying the same map over and over again
but no no thats never going to happen
kindred frost
no no you should be mad at lag
for real liek when its lag plus melt my hp with commands its a lot
Im getting some whens against them though
oblique sundial
so i have to play eternal winner vs clockers every other damn gam e
and its just so much fun
kindred frost
only one can clock so long man
oblique sundial
if i can time out games on luciel an aisha can clock for chain fireball
its not a hard thing to do
especially on a map as bad as eternal winter lmao
like i have to approach, the only approach is completely linear
aisha has two platforms and a teleport
like yeah theres cheesy maps but then theres just bad maps
eternal winner is one of those maps
kindred frost
clockers really be logging into pvp just to play the opponent is lava
oblique sundial
my problem is less the clocker and more the dog map design that enables them so hard
and that i have to waste my map bans on stuff like garpai and blizzard ruins
kindred frost
I hate fighting 4th elsis man
kindred frost
hey si half rigo half duelist still meta
mystic elbow
Full duelist
kindred frost
Full duelist
also what should my stats be looking like
mystic elbow
also what should my stats be looking like
As CA it should be crit dmg > mpr > and whatever skill u decide to stack
noble pelican
KOG ignoring/not adding anything new for PVP yet this chat gets 100+ messages about it
My favorite game mode
noble pelican
goku goes to a time chamber doesn't he?
The closest we get is spar rooms
As for the Re-awakening discussion, can’t wait to see the meta changing to stack awakening charge again
Awk. Charge > MPR?
versed knot
I'm already at like 50% awk charge cus how well it pairs with vine crown
noble pelican
Dang, I’m at 40% 😞
Actually, I may need to check considering there’s ROF + Vine crown
versed knot
Yeah an extra socket for 12% should top it off
noble pelican
It’s probably be hard to fight if your teammate/enemy kept awakening
I worry for y’all in 2s when that reawakening change happens
oblique sundial
guess im running soul crown instead of vine crown lul
empty ore
Now on the topic of balance changes
Which Luciel comes out the worst due to the combination guage changes
rich quail
Feels like Catastrophe or Demersio?
Innocent doesn't really feel like they use CP.
Diablangelion only seems to use the transformations for the huge AoE hitboxes which is covered by other skills anyway.
Catastrophe loses easy access Apollyon nukes and Demersio loses the main benefit of CP cycling.
willow mural
dem
cat at least has ambush attack that does stupid dmg
dems whole pvp cycle (at least in 1s) is to save up cp for either nether shredder or soul infest
there damage is doodoo
their
whatever
willow mural
kog really out here making changes without testing the repercussions 💀
and once again not caring about pvp
mystic elbow
Yea it was kinda broken to just be holding in a nuke 👀
Apsara/SU does the same though
noble pelican
I read those changes, and man. Luciel players got it rough
willow mural
i hope they go back on this change
innocent gets screwed over in pve and dem is worse off in pvpp
buoyant folio
but keep da nerfed yeah? 
willow mural
u must be skipping down a flower patch with those chung nerfs lmao
buoyant folio
well
he wasn't nerfed hard enough
he still has his broken mechs in pvp
they just.. don't use enough mana
and linger too long
kindred frost
I can't wait to play pvp when I get home
oblique sundial
cata doesnt really care in 1s, ambush still hits for 200k and they can tank for apollyon now lol
dem is just garbage now
like PO without an mp drain build bad
inno loses a bit in 2s ig, no more rain of chaos spam or something idk
her nukes arent braveries though
cata doesnt really have any incentive to switch anymore either so they can just loop >>^zzx forever too ig?
abstract yacht
As for the Re-awakening discussion, can’t wait to see the meta changing to stack...
dvc les g o o o o o
abstract yacht
It’s probably be hard to fight if your teammate/enemy kept awakening
a reminder ally delays did not affect u in the past
but it was probably changed likely cuz more often than not ur allies screwed ur delay rather than work with your plans
abstract yacht
Which Luciel comes out the worst due to the combination guage changes
Catastrophe likely
signal wagon
abstract yacht
at first I was gonna say IN but then I thought
her braveries suck for burst
her nuke is shadow bolt anyway
oblique sundial
catastrophe probably got a buff from this if were being entirely honest
you win most of your games before you even hit 5 cp
and in 2s lol apollyon only costs 200 mp anyways
who cares
thats less than what itd cost to build it with special actives
and you dont have to do some garbage high kd zzzx loop to build cp anymore, you can just >>^zzx people infinitely
buoyant folio
all me
oblique sundial
can you blame people for not wanting to pvp vs ca, tp, da, etc
buoyant folio
no
hollow hound
can you blame people for not wanting to pvp vs ca, tp, da, etc
PR, RV, SU and most of the 4th jobs.
oblique sundial
4th paths and their uh
everything
why can they all fly
wonder how theyre gonna rework aisha
warm hornet
as least for CE, her air to ground pressure is not atrocious compared to other characters. and it's universally punishable.
oblique sundial
throwing games on my aisha if anyone wants free ap or smth
oblique sundial
raven mains have gotta be the most boring people ever
like the elboy tried to do something cool, the laby yeah its a laby they all look the same
even the ca tried
but the ravens
i swear the only command they know is zzxx
this is your chance! be the kirbyblader clone you know you want to be!
empty ore
i swear the only command they know is zzxx
Now you see my problem
buoyant folio
lmao
warm hornet
it's 'THE" optimal and mildly easy to learn.
and his first Z command is very generous to re-catch people on the juggle.
echo phoenix
how to not KD while comboing with raven without using zzxx? 
warm hornet
it's more of the concept that almost every raven doesn't need to do anything else other than zzxx when starting a combo.
weather be on ledge, corner, middle of map.
because the combo itself somewhat has a knock down rate reduction by default.
like first path elesis zzzx ~xx
the 4th hit of the combo massively reduces knock down rate just for the intent of using the later hits.
and for whatever reason, her zzzx becomes in an infinite.
but most of those 1st path elesis doesn't really use that infinite because "insert concept".
or it's just that X dropping is just better/optimal enough.
but let's think....
raven's combo creativity is a bit limiting right?
or is it just that other attacks just have higher knock down rate.
or the strategy to maintain/create mana advantage like everyone would do.
asking to first path ravens, what happen to those zzzx ~z combos
are they considered "useless" now?
or it's something that i heard long time ago that people can't x drop with it anymore?
echo phoenix
asking to first path ravens, what happen to those zzzx ~z combos
when X for the blackhole gives so much amount of KD count unlike before maybe thats why.
theres ZZZ^ and XZZZ launches to x drop for FB but not much would use it
warm hornet
can you technically loop xzzz with an x drop? (FB raven)
but i would imagine the window would be pretty tight.
echo phoenix
yes but then would throw the opponent on such distance before x dropping.
warm hornet
alright.
mystic elbow
how to not KD while comboing with raven without using zzxx? <:LuHmmShimo:1035387...
U can be clean with raven without just x dropping
warm hornet
could you combo in the air with FB's >>^ZX and catch off from that?
or i would like to imagine you do zzxx then >>^ zx then >>^ X then an x drop.
or maybe that's a little too much?
echo phoenix
no way it cant
mystic elbow
That sounds similar to smth RH can do
echo phoenix
it would push so far already
warm hornet
how about right up on a wall?
warm hornet
can you still do an x drop with zzzx ~z right?
echo phoenix
yes still possible
i just dun see so much FB's do that these days
even korean FBs
warm hornet
it's been a little while since i seen one myself to be honest.
or it's just that they all job changed.
to the 4th path raven.
oblique sundial
Dunno if it still works
But light tap cancel zzzxz and slide
You'll be cooler than 99% if the fbs that play rn
real viper
CC getting Stun for unmod burst wolf
might be considerable between mod and unmod burst wolf
I like that but at a cost of losing mod burst wolf
abstract yacht
or i would like to imagine you do zzxx then >>^ zx then >>^ X then an x drop.
bad.
^ZX does not allow you further actions
so you fall at nearly the same speed as the enemy you just hit
which means it gives a window for the opponent to do stuff when they hit ground
Most of Raven commands are bad for combo intent
from design.
Whether because its just bad to follow up or too much KD
which is why most just do zzxx these days
like I remember when XXZZ~Z was usable on FB
not anymore especially when theres a pvp acc set that increases your own KD when you get hit
clever sigil
how to not KD while comboing with raven without using zzxx? <:LuHmmShimo:1035387...
some questions...
-What raven path?
-and are we talking about KD Rates or knocking down/Knocking up/Airborning players straight up?
clever sigil
asking to first path ravens, what happen to those zzzx ~z combos
the blackhole x-drop string?
doable,
Most would say it's not as optimal vs doing the bread & butter "(>)zzxx ^vX Z" Combo. and the blackhole supposedly feeds more MP vs the bread & butter.
clever sigil
can you technically loop xzzz with an x drop? (FB raven)
to add on, XZZZ string seems wonky on some combo chains, the last Z seems to not knock up the opponent occasionally. May be client sided, or require a second loop. which seems to Push the KD rate somewhat high.
(I've been contemplating how a Wind IV w. Activation rate mystics can work, may do wonders for some players looking for Keeping the kd low + Shadow's Descent title.
clever sigil
But light tap cancel zzzxz and slide
blackhole slide still works. just gotta time it " or be instant with the "< or >"(based on side), also attk speed decides how fast or, precise the timing has to be.
Imagine it as doing a EWGF vs a WGF on Jin or Kazuya in tekken.
besides that, happy ruby Tuesday.
I still want to see people add their two cents and/or ideas to this thread:
https://discord.com/channels/428264566074638338/1170520859300085900
oblique sundial
blackhole slide still works. just gotta time it " or be instant with the "< or >...
I like the analogy, still hate Mishima players lul
Glad the slide still works, I'm still not gonna touch raven again
Character is dead to me
clever sigil
Glad the slide still works, I'm still not gonna touch raven again
at least you DIID touch raven :v
mystic elbow
Raven never looked appealing
buoyant folio
Real
buoyant folio
Are you specifically singling out ravens
cuz every character has its horrible amount of people playing them LOL
buoyant folio
Must be new to the game
mystic elbow
uh
no
its just a trend :)
ravens and adds tend to be annoyingly egotistical
obviously not all of em
but most
mystic elbow
gey
fiery lionBOT
bigwoofles has been warned
mystic elbow
💀
oblique sundial
Elesis mains are sweaty and "easily aroused" for lack of a better term
clever sigil
I never met a female Elesis player besides ben10
There's a few.
oblique sundial
I really thought Ben was a dude
buoyant folio
I've met a number amount of female ele mains
You must be ne- okay sorry I won't say that again LMAOO
clever sigil
also..... I won't deny the raven thing. If i can snap the population of....bad apples. I'd already pull that trigger.
I just want to keep on playing raven without no stigma . _.
buoyant folio
But being fr
each character has its fair share of female players if that's everyone's focus frfrfr
oblique sundial
I thought they were all Ara and eve mains
buoyant folio
I thought they were all Ara and eve mains
Not wrong about that
mostly bc of fashion choices kog makes for characters
mystic elbow
Ara has one of the worst female fashions imo
Elesis, Aisha, and Eve
have wayyy better costumes
for Ara they tend to make things look
awkward
on her
buoyant folio
Debatable
oblique sundial
labys all consume illegal content
buoyant folio
^ nah that's specifically swimsuit wearing laby's
clever sigil
will say this, and this might be due to not being in the top 100 or near SSS. Haven't seen, nor dealt with much toxicity. things have been relatively chill.
buoyant folio
The game doesn't have as much as toxicity as it did back then
but that's bc the game's been emptier than it used to be
buoyant folio
Ya lol
oblique sundial
I don't trust swimsuit labys
mystic elbow
u dont rly meet anyone new
buoyant folio
It's never a good idea to be toxic in pvp
considering
almost everyone knows each other
but I can't help but flag someone when they cheese me 24/7 in a fight 
clever sigil
but that's bc the game's been emptier than it used to be
oof. Reminding me of how small the pvp population is atm
mystic elbow
Yea its pretty bad when ben10 shares a salt message
and we can guess
who it is
😭
oblique sundial
Cent mains deserve every bit of toxicity they get
buoyant folio
Chung* mains
Chung is literally nothing but a meta character in pvp
all he has to do is fart and he'll catch you
hollow hound
but I can't help but flag someone when they cheese me 24/7 in a fight <:cat_angr...
What do you mean by "cheese me"?
mystic elbow
run?
buoyant folio
What do you mean by "cheese me"?
basically
real viper
almost everyone knows each other
They belike: joke on you, idc
mystic elbow
nowadays u salt and you'll just get clowned for it 😭
buoyant folio
- Constant rely on super armor
- Constant rely on lingering attacks
- Constant rely on force skills to catch
- Constantly only being able to catch in a singular manner bc they don't know how to play
oblique sundial
That's just playing neutral lmao
hollow hound
1. Constant rely on super armor
2. Constant rely on lingering attacks
3. Constan...
- There is a Raven...
buoyant folio
That's just playing neutral lmao
I never said it wasn't
and regardless it's still cheesing
hollow hound
I kinda have to rely on SA as <:SH:1136101310433861712>
Me2 as CE since I don't know how to play.
oblique sundial
Real
real viper
There's a CS on INT that I'm just sick of fighting against despite still able to win cuz bro always on clone transcend (CBS) to cheese in arena
oblique sundial
I don't see the point in not using everything your class has
real viper
mystic elbow
Imma about to learn CE too when.. im done w/ playing pve
oblique sundial
Just because it's more "respectable"
mystic elbow
oblique sundial
If someone is losing trades to shadow every time they interact with me, I'm gonna abuse it
buoyant folio
Huh
What point are you trying to make here lool
I didn't say they couldn't
I just said I'll flag them man
If they want to play that way, they can go ahead
It's more annoying to fight, not unbeatable however
oblique sundial
You do you, that's just kind of dumb if I'm being honest
hollow hound
I remember that Oz that always uses this skill ummm, the one who is like a void and drains your MP.
hollow hound
Everytime I tried to get away after mb she used that skill to trap me again and spam it over and over again.
buoyant folio
Generally I feel like any skill that can do that, immediately as you get up
hollow hound
;___;
buoyant folio
Should be nerfed to death or completely changed
bc there's really almost nothing you can
clever sigil
I remember that Oz that always uses this skill ummm, the one who is like a void ...
phamtom breath?
buoyant folio
You can theoretically use obten but you can only use that once every so often
hollow hound
CE can do that but you can mb at some point I guess.
buoyant folio
and even if you manage to dodge one they'll drop in another
and you'll have 0 mana
mystic elbow
am I missing context here
you're flagging sm1 for playing the game
💀
is what he's saying
they're just using their resources yet u see it as "cheesing"
yet theyre just playing as they should
buoyant folio
Yeah, and?
mystic elbow
Everytime I tried to get away after mb she used that skill to trap me again and ...
that skill is
oppressive
LOOOL
like actually oppressive
buoyant folio
The reason I say cheesing is because those things should generally be reworked
mystic elbow
like no matter what they can either use chain fire ball into phantom breeding
or just phantom breeding
yea idk i agri w/ arnold thats a ridiculous reason to flag sm1
buoyant folio
is it though
Things in the past have been nerfed because of how stupid broken they are
Obviously they rely on things like that because it's the "optimal" manner of catching
mystic elbow
well yes its broken but they're just using their resources
oblique sundial
Also no 4 like if they're relying on ghe same method to catch and it just keeps working
mystic elbow
just like I am