interesting concept but the game was designed as a high paced interactive.
In additiion, ( i may be corrected but) I do believe that there are Some Guild Crop recipes that provide similar stats that you are recommending over a whopping 30 minute period.
#Fighter Potions
novel wind
lapis viper
interesting concept but the game was designed as a high paced interactive.
In a...
If it's design to be high paced, why would they nerf characters with fast clears? The objective it's to nerf temporary buffs vs nerfing directly classes. Otherwise we become dependent. Not to mention it devalues peoples effort to get stronger, just because an item can boost them to do well.
tall inlet
In all honesty, this feels more class based than fighter based. Fighter potions already have 100% uptime so increasing the duration does nothing. The damage of synergy dealers and dealers has nothing to do with fighter pots being "too big" of an increase as you put it. Fighter pots being too big of an increase is something that would nerf clear times rather than classes as a whole. If you're trying to imply that certain classes benefit more off of fighter pots, they don't, because it's the same increase no matter what class you play.
The only way a fighter pot can honestly make one class outdamage another at equal or close to equal gear is if one forgets to press it since they already have 100% uptime, which is just a skill issue.
tall inlet
interesting concept but the game was designed as a high paced interactive.
In a...
This is elixirs, you're thinking of heavenly dessert party, which is an elixir and not on your potion bar like fighter potions. Entirely different concept.
Those are more akin to adapt elixirs
lapis viper
In all honesty, this feels more class based than fighter based. Fighter potions ...
Interesting, you kind of prove my point. There's a reason we spam fighter potions - it has a major effect to clearing speeds and for those less geared, to compensate for lack of strength.
The point is to refocus KOG's attention to bring down temporary buffs power before they axe classes directly. Why? Because we work hard to be strong. 30% Attack power is an absurd amount of borrowed power.
tall inlet
Fighter potions don't diminish anyone's work because it's a universal increase, though
That's like saying if you gave every strong person in the world a gun, would they feel like their efforts to gain strength are wasted by having a gun? No lol it's just a boost in power
It'd be one thing if certain classes benefitted more from it than others, but they don't
lapis viper
Fighter potions don't diminish anyone's work because it's a universal increase, ...
If the balance takes into consideration fighters, which then results in a class nerf, then it does.
tall inlet
Fighters are the same increase for every class unless you forget to press it which is a skill issue
Balance would be the same because fighters are the same damage increase all across the board
There's for sure a way to tackle the balance issue, but I'm fairly certain changing fighters won't do much
lapis viper
Who cares if it works the same for every class? This is mainly use by damage characters. It's not useful to use if you are not doing some form of damage portion for the content that your run.
tall inlet
Fighter potions may as well not exist for balance because they're the same across the board, is what I mean.
Deleting a 30% increase for every class and keeping it, it doesn't matter because at similar gear all classes will have the same power.
Since the increase is the same.
It's a balance issue of class, not fighters.
Class balance is something that needs to be worked on, but changing fighters won't do anything, and increasing the duration doesn't matter when fighters already have 100% uptime.
lapis viper
The acid test would be simple - have people run with it and without. There's a reason people are sad when they forget to use it lol.
30% increase does not have an equal effect for all roles so that's a mute point.
tall inlet
Supports aren't doing damage anyway, and supports don't get nerfed because of fighters.
You said to focus on synergy dealers and dealers, both are classes that use fighters.
So no, the point is not mute if the classes that are getting nerfed and buffed because of fighters actually use them.
Fighters are a massive increase, yes, but they don't influence balance as much as you think they do I'm pretty sure.
lapis viper
You can't say that unless you know 100% as a fact KOG is does not take into consideration the effects of Fighter Potions when doing their balance patch.
lapis viper
If they have an effect, how can you say it's not big when EVERY one use it. lol
lapis viper
It's not like people say, "oh man, I got no fighter potions." Instead people say " let me go buy fighter potions." lol
tall inlet
Yes that's just a damage increase all across the board though
Who WOULDN'T want to get a fighter pot
Aside from supports
lapis viper
That's the point. Is that effective.
That's why it should be consider for balancing to see how much it changes the results.
tall inlet
If one were to say fighters should be reduced because they give too much, then okay, I won't refute that even if I disagree, but what I am mainly refuting is fighters do not do anything for balance
olive comet
I mean if you wanna try that then just dont fighter 4head.
tall inlet
Because they don't
lapis viper
If one were to say fighters should be reduced because they give too much, then o...
How can you prove it?
It's fine that you say that.
But how can you show that?
because we know, that the results from clears include the use of fighter potions. And KoG does post balance patches around that.
tall inlet
Because balance is a comparison rather than a damage in general issue. CA got nerfed upon release because she was massively above every single class in the game.
lapis viper
You aren't really showing evidence of how fighters don't effect balancing patches.
tall inlet
So knowing that balance is a comparison issue, then deleting fighters or even giving us a second 30% damage increase would not change the way classes are balanced because comparatively they would be doing the same.
You're not showing evidence of how they are either lmao
All either of us can do is speculate because we don't know what happens over at kog kr
lapis viper
Like I said, the DPS meters, include Fighter potions...
because we spam them.
ON the other hand, there's no evidence that Figthter don't effect balance.
tall inlet
That doesn't have to do with balance because every class uses them except for the pure support classes that don't need to do damage, and those ones are never buffed or nerfed in their damage in the first place so dps charts are useless for them.
lapis viper
I don't think you should get hung up on that point about "every class" since it's not meta to use Fighters if you are not doing damage.
tall inlet
Okay but that IS the point. Balance is comparative to other classes, so to say fighters being in DPS charts will change balance doesn't make sense. DPS comparatively will be the same, just that the runs themselves will be slower if you nerfed fighters. With comparative DPS being the same, balance would not change.
lapis viper
If you can share something from KR that says they don't consider Fighters in their balancing data from raid clearing, which is the main stuff the balance around, than that would be something concrete.
tall inlet
Classes, when they are too strong, are nerfed because they're well above the rest of the cast(like release CA) or buffed when they're well below the rest of the cast.
lapis viper
But as of right now, the results of raid clearing times and damage indeed take it into consideration.
tall inlet
Whether it's taken into consideration or not doesn't matter because dps is comparative to other classes, is what I'm saying. So everyone using fighters means nothing because with or without the same damage increase all across the board, comparative dps will still be the same.
lapis viper
That's neither here or there right now, since it's not clear what the standard is. We can only really guess based on how well KR players are doing and their balancing around that.
tall inlet
Classes aren't nerfed because they're killing the raid too fast, they're nerfed because they're killing the raid much faster than every single other class in the game.
Which is exactly why CA got nerfed so much upon release
lapis viper
Again, not everybody should be using fighters. lol It's for those doing damage.
Support's use other elixirs.
tall inlet
Supports are irrelevant to this discussion since your suggestion says to focus on synergy dealers and dealers
Both of which use fighters
waxen wing
If you take them down, you kill alchemist profession...
lapis viper
They don't have to take them down. Just balance them.
tall inlet
That is another consequence of it even if alchemist has other uses but none which give as much ED
tall inlet
Lilia means if fighter potions aren't important and you can just run without them with no problem then no one would buy them as much and alchemist profession would die
waxen wing
Kinda yes...
tall inlet
My highest alchemist is level 2 lmao so not on my end
lapis viper
Anyways, the point remains. Fighters are too good and they need to be adjusted.
#BorrowedPower is bad.
No body is going to stop using fighters.
waxen wing
I don't even use it because it's expensive to craft and you can sell for a decent price only on certains days, usually during events.
Like exp event.
Or double drops on raids.
tall inlet
See if that was the point then that's understandable but I just think trying to say fighters effect balance doesn't make sense
tall inlet
Yes, but with or without them, DPS and balance is comparative to other classes.
waxen wing
I don't deny that it's a broken buff, but it's a "f2p" buff.
olive comet
But in the end Fighters arent the issue.
waxen wing
You can farm these potions and sell them or use them.
tall inlet
Giving everyone a 30% damage increase is the same as giving no one a 30% damage increase because their comparative dps will be the same.
lapis viper
#BorrowedPower?, so ur supports buffing you is Borrowed power
lol but it comes from players
olive comet
It is still Borrowed power no?
U made a fat contradictory with that.
But imbalance aint due to Fighters.
lapis viper
Of course, Fighters are not the problem.
olive comet
lapis viper
Lets be clear.
olive comet
Lets be clear
lapis viper
I posted something about classes on a different post.
lapis viper
That said, 30% of borrow power that remains untouched while there's nerfs is an oversight.
olive comet
its still not the true issue though
tall inlet
If fighters aren't the problem then why are we here
lapis viper
If fighters aren't the problem then why are we here
Because they have an effect.
tall inlet
Comparatively, they don't. Hypothetically, if Revenant does half of Richter's damage with fighter potions, he will still do half of Richter's damage without fighter potions. Both classes are gaining the same increase, so comparatively it's as if they didn't have it to begin with outside of the run itself being faster, which is not comparative dps.
Which the game is balanced around how classes are compared to others, hence why CA got nerfed when she was so much stronger than everyone else.
lapis viper
It's not about effecting classes differently Alba.
It's the effects on the damage meter and the clearing speeds.
That's what KOG KR says they look into when doing balancing patches.
tall inlet
Damage meter and clearing speeds don't matter when comparative dps is the same. Classes are buffed and nerfed compared to each other. They look into the clear speeds and numbers but that's not all they look into. They're also looking into how the class' clear speeds and numbers compare to other classes.
olive comet
Again once more, its not about Fighters,nor the effect, its a balancing thing
SOme classes no matter how it is, will do better then others
shrugs
Again we are playing a MMO
not everything is balanced and ur just coping for excuses atp
sorry to be the one to say it
lapis viper
You can say that. But KOG doesn't not balance around your perspective. Here's what they post with their balance patches.
"*Character balancing
The balance patch on Thursday , February 2 will begin on Thursday, January 16 after the Abyss Raid's defense was adjusted.
Based on the play data so far, in terms of comprehensive capabilities such as damage and hit support,
Some skill damage and synergies for overly efficient or underperforming characters have been adjusted."
tall inlet
That doesn't prove it's based around what you're saying either lol
Because if you assume classes are balanced in a vacuum, then that makes no sense
lapis viper
...
Alba, it says "Based on the play data".
Are you taking this personally?
If so this is done.
tall inlet
Play data means a lot more than just dps charts though 
and I assume they do have access to know whether fighters were used
Play data also means that it's data from all classes
waxen wing
If they seriously do it according to the data, then they should stop buffing CS speed and start to buffing her damage instead.
tall inlet
Those that are overperforming are judged based on how they perform compared to other classes based on the play data
olive comet
For instance
Shaktis Specter walk nerf
was due to her overperforming in Abyss
What ur talking is more toward character balance once more-
lapis viper
Yeah, but Fighters only effect dps meters. lol
olive comet
its the same effect
across the board
once again
You can keep saying that
but its not just about DMG
for the play data
o.O
More to it then just dmg
olive comet
Play data isnt only DAMAGE
Again
Theres more to the game then just DAMAGE
LMAO
Ur post, suggestion whatever u wanna call this, is attacking something miniscule in comparison of char balancing.
lapis viper
Yeah, and there's more way than one to make adjustments to the sources of power.
You can't compare apples to oranges.
lapis viper
If you feel that Fighters are indeed not a big part of the balance.
Lets do a simple test.
olive comet
Idk man, ur post is really illogically setup and might need to be re designated on its focus, seeing as several people would argue about Fighters being the change, but more character balance.,
lapis viper
No. It' really just come down to borrow power that should be adjusted.
Simple stuff.
olive comet
Or just stop being a egoist lmao, its nothing about borrowed power.
u borrow from your supports 4head,
So ur statement is just go do ur raids without support pretty much
U go do that 
ill sit back and laugh at it
lapis viper
As to the post from KR - used the most resent one, but the there's been a few of them were they mention overperforming that contains a bulk of nerfs to things like TP and such.
lapis viper
Or just stop being a egoist lmao, its nothing about borrowed power.
It sounds like you are trying to instigate something.
lapis viper
don't conflate buffs from your party with items.
olive comet
LOL-
lapis viper
Those are two very different things.
lapis viper
You are free to your opinion.
novel wind
#BorrowedPower is bad.
well, if this point makes sense, you should refuse to use the queuing buff, refuse to use God buff, turn down the adaptation potions etc, because all of them fall under thsame heading of 'Borrowed Power'🙃
inland fulcrum
I do not like the proposed nerf, what I would like however if fpots could be added to the EP shop at 50 fighter pots for 50 EP (1 EP each) to help with f2p dps players who want to use fpots for berthe to help them clear.
void torrent
I think the fact that it IS temporary justifies it being so high
The smaller the uptime on an effect the better it should be
But I also agree that we need more power centered around player progression
inland fulcrum
yeah I think while leveling one should be able to get the 100% phys/mag atk titles to help them with leveling. If it was me I would combine those 2 1 day titles and reduce them to 50% though (and possibly make them permanent).
The current ones every 20 levels just utterly suck.
They only need the 1 day titles anyway because chances are they will cap that character within 5 hours
and then 3rd job and master
Sometimes all in same day thanks to the stam pots.
sharp python
based on this (poor) take
we should also nerf wind orbs, water orbs, god buff, and supports
cause they all affect damage meters too
actually we should nerf equipment stats too, they affect damage meters too
lapis viper
based on this (poor) take
You read through the out of control back and forth chat to add to the unrelated points. 30% Attack power is an excessive amount for an item. KR should look into making adjust to it. 🤡
inland fulcrum
At this rate we should nerf the entire game into just a barbie game because those affect damage meters too.
tall inlet
jokes on you my damage is directly proportionate to how cute i look
inland fulcrum
lol only because it causes emotional damage because they wanted your looks.
sharp python
You read through the out of control back and forth chat to add to the unrelated ...
it's really not though
unless you're saying 50% physical and magical defense reduction on an item is too much, especially with how easy it is to get
or how a 5% ASD + 5mp per sec buff for 30 minutes is too much with how easy it is to get
cause in comparison, fighter potions aren't as excessive as you make them out to be compared to much easier it is to get the above 2
inland fulcrum
You read through the out of control back and forth chat to add to the unrelated ...
"excssive amount" sounds like someone here never ran berthe or even Ran Raids to know that fpots are not optional for dps players, they are mandatory to even have a remote chance to clear.
Rosso raid's fpots can be avoided, but not for berthe / Ran Raids where you got to clear each stage as fast as possible to avoid getting wiped (Haivan's injected bombs at p3 on savage white-ghosts castle for example).
Also fpots helps counter the 24% atk power lost from head hunter as well so there is also that as some dps's do not want to spend the time removing and readding head hunter because of those bombs in that raid dungeon.
sharp python
"excssive amount" sounds like someone here never ran berthe or even Ran Raids to...
they're not mandatory unless you're really undergeared and just want to finish faster, but they're very helpful
lapis viper
unless you're saying 50% physical and magical defense reduction on an item is to...
I do believe that. But Is hard to expect KOG would changes those things. The issue I have with FPotions is attack power - something we work for.
inland fulcrum
they're not mandatory unless you're really undergeared and just want to finish f...
you can be geared properly and still need them to kill it faster because of the haivan bombs I mentioned when you have about 3 other members who cant damage well and you got to avoid being wiped.
lapis viper
"excssive amount" sounds like someone here never ran berthe or even Ran Raids to...
That's the point. They clearly have strong value - but still we see nerfs to damage before Fighters ever get touched.
lapis viper
unless you're saying 50% physical and magical defense reduction on an item is to...
It would be far better if these things were backed in to classes.
sharp python
you can be geared properly and still need them to kill it faster because of the ...
again "faster"
faster =/= required unless there's a time limit (there isn't)
as for haivan's bombs, if the party is getting wiped by those, they're not doing the mechanics properly, which is completely unrelated to fighter potions
sharp python
That's the point. They clearly have strong value - but still we see nerfs to dam...
there's a reason for that
fighter potion nerf = universal nerf, doesn't solve issues with classes being overpowered
nerf to character/class skills = targeted nerf
lapis viper
fighter potion nerf = universal nerf, doesn't solve issues with classes being ov...
It wouldn't matter. If it gets brought down to 5%, it's still 5% universally. The difference is that the damage stats would be less effected by it. They can provide balancing to compensate for it in raw stats.
Also, the sentiment that LabyParfait shared about feeling mandatory is universal. There's a reason why people feel like the need to use it. Sure, there those who don't need to - but still use it.
sharp python
2 characters use 1 skill, both of which deal 100,000 damage
with a fighter potion that's now 130,000 damage
fighter potion is nerfed, so now they deal 105,000 damage
difference is character a's skill is is much better than character b and doesn't require as much gear as character b does
assuming fighter potions are the reason for that real difference and being as big a factor for balancing is straight up copium mah dood
sharp python
Also, the sentiment that LabyParfait shared about feeling mandatory is universal...
people think they need a +12 to dps and that its mandatory
but its not
lapis viper
That's a fact. Fighters act a copium.
sharp python
i barely use fighter potions, and only do so because i want to be contribute more
fighters act as a buff
lapis viper
Are you willing to give up Fighters Potion for the rest of time you play Elsword?
sharp python
thinking fighters are affecting balance patches is the real copium
if they removed them sure
lapis viper
Reducing it and give that power to characters is the better path.
lapis viper
There's no reason to defend that kind of effect when the exchange is getting progression improvements.
sharp python
fighter potions have no involvement with actual progression improvements though
lapis viper
Well, they do get counted on clearing data. lol
lapis viper
After all, it's 30% attack power increase.
lapis viper
Sure, but those don't give attack power.
lapis viper
That's it's not an apples to apples comparison.
sharp python
neither is character balance vs a consumable
lapis viper
Depends on the game design. Which if that's what KoG intended, that's fair.
But there's nothing officially saying that's the case.
sharp python
nothing officially saying fighter potions are affecting their decision either
lapis viper
That's fair. But it does effect damage meters by a whooping 30% Attack power. 🤡
lapis viper
Oh yeah, because people look at those for supports. 🤡
lapis viper
Your opinions are more for gaslighting than actually reinforcing your personal opinion.
In the end, hopefully they will take a look in the future to moving that attack power around to all classes.
sharp python
Numbers aren't opinions, and i'm talking numbers here 
instead of saying nerf fighter's and just move power to the characters, just buff the characters
lapis viper
Random numbers to back up your opinion. That's fine.
tall inlet
Interesting how you accused me of taking things personal before meanwhile it sounds like you're doing that here by accusing Kayne of "gaslighting" instead of providing evidence against his points
lapis viper
Interesting how you accused me of taking things personal before meanwhile it sou...
because of the remark "thinking fighters are affecting balance patches is the real copium.".
sharp python
if you barely play the game at all and aren't even at mid-game for more than just a month
lapis viper
There's no reason to come back Alba because you are holding a grudge.
sharp python
you probably don't have an understanding on most of these issues
olive comet
He isnt.
lapis viper
In the end this is a discussion to see changes.
olive comet
a discussion to see changes>gets badly downvoted
its a high doubt itll be a "change"
sharp python
true...and no one sees why this should be changed
olive comet
anyways
sharp python
lapis viper
its a high doubt itll be a "change"
Possibly, but people should still share they thoughts.
sharp python
i mean how much did we ask for free bankshare and banksharable elrianode and rigomor
and title sharing
and it happened
tall inlet
I've talked in the thread earlier too though and memed about my dps being proportionate to my fashion. If I came back because I was "holding a grudge" as you put it, I'd have clowned on you any chance I got, and looking back on what's happened prior to me talking again, I've had plenty of chances.
olive comet
cause 1 person sees it as a issue
lapis viper
It's not about what it's up voted or not. That just shows support about opinions that all players should feel free to express.
olive comet
in comparison
And my point being once again
ur playing NA
We ask for multiple things
lapis viper
I've talked in the thread earlier too though and memed about my dps being propor...
It's okay to let go and move on.
olive comet
receive it what? 2-3 years later?
sharp python
well 92% think this change is bad so i guess its safe to say its a bad take
olive comet
cause Kr asked about it?
sharp python
olive comet
And i dont mean to come off blunt, but i will say if this is the issue
im just going to assume 2 things
sharp python
receive it what? 2-3 years later?
changes dont happen instantly and won't be quick either, devs usually prep months in advance for stuff
lapis viper
We ask for multiple things
Yeah, that's true. Even before the forums were taken down.
lapis viper
or 2 ur just coping
Honestly, this more for the people that try hard to gear up and don't have the RNG or $ to get those enhancements to do well.
lapis viper
u need enhancements to do dmg?
I'm sure you help people with that, right?
lapis viper
Just piloting different
This is off topic, but if so, when will stream a Ran run?
lapis viper
lapis viper
ur a nobody to me
That's fine, but sharing is caring. 🙂
lapis viper
lol well you claim something but don't back it. Anyways, it has nothing to do with this.
Go back to general lol
olive comet
nah
Im curious whatever things u think is the problem with fighters, everyone gave u factual points, you refuse to agree, thats fine and dandy, But still the point ur trying to push, is quite moot, cause most people dont see fighters the same way you do ig, but must be big to live in that copium
lapis viper
It's been a fun game of opinions. Mine included.
But you want to make it about something else. Just go have fun in General.
olive comet
You were the one who brought that there-
"when are you gonna stream"
"its about those with bad rng or $ for enhancements"
Etcetc
but yeah, ur fighters view is still quite pepega.
lapis viper
It's a conversation. But you seem to be more interested on something else.
inland fulcrum
Ok what troll have I come back to? 🍿
reef niche
It's cool that we can discuss these things here and talk about the pros and cons 🙂 Maybe we should try to be a bit more constructive though rather than bashing one another as I think it would help with the discussion! It's always okay to agree to disagree and all 😅
inland fulcrum
The majority of us feel that the discussed changes in this suggestion would not be good at all for anyone really.
There are many use cases for using fpots, and they will continue to be needed for those cases.
Just because 1 person does not like them does not mean they should be nerfed or removed.
Although if you had complained about the amount of atk power that head hunter consumes that is a different story then, as I feel it does kinda use too much for:
- rare, elite, and unique (despite boss dmg being added to compensate).
I think then having rare use 12%, elite 15%, and unique 18% would be much better but that is me (for the same amount of boss dmg).
placid crescent
I find it funny how there's a assumption made by the OP here that KoG just simply ignores fighters existing whenever looking at damage charts that get send in by KR or by videos made and them being surprised when some characters have massive differences in total dps / bpm to others with the same team comp and time, as if they're bewildered by it or sth. They know that there's stuff like this and account for it.
Why do classes that are present in fast runs get nerfed? Because they overperform compared to the others in the cast.
Nerfing Fighters wont make these overperformances any different, players will still want the fastest clear possible, so they'll still gravitate to those classes if they can.
It wont change the support meta at all, given that attack % buffs do not get normalized (if Ashal is to be believed ) and other damage buff increasers will stay the same. It will also not change anything when considering DPS post-change, the top tiers will still be top tiers because their skill and passive kit alongside how they interact with the mechanics of the game is what makes them better then the rest given the current content that's considered by KoG as the highest priority to address. This is why their kit gets gutted/nerfed/reworked to get them back into line, be it over the top sometimes or not
Therefore it won't change anything but make the gameplay progression for everyone unnecessarily longer, which in turn will gatekeep people by meta/gear standards harder as people do not want to spend even more time then they will already have to spend.
Heck, i would even say it is a good thing that fighters exist to alleviate people. Given it's costly nature its use cases are a limited thing to everyone sensible, which causes it to be used 90% of the time inside of Raids, and no where else. Inside of those raids they'll already spend quite a significant time per run, as is with the nature of raids, especially inside of raid farms. They will still want to get stronger outside of having this "borrowed power" as their clear times inside of normal dungeons will decrease by doing so, let alone open more opportunities to grind certain progression required tasks.
Also, listen to yourself for one second.
"it has a major effect to clearing speeds and for those less geared, to compensate for lack of strength."
Are you seriously gonna suggest something that will make progression even harder for those "less geared"? As if having to reach a good reforge point, like r15 or even higher, on their rigomor set of choice, a +11 vos on stage 2+ alongside a actually good IB set, a artifact accessory set with decent enough effects and color effect, and (hopefully) a erp range of about 300+ isn't already hard enough for most mid game players to achieve so that they can actually farm berthe as a dps? Come on dude, they need the fighters to farm/clear berthe in a reasonable time for everyone, and expecting them to get more geared then that to compensate for that is laughable to say the least.
sharp python
I find it funny how there's a assumption made by the OP here that KoG just simpl...
preach
tall inlet
sharp python
novel wind
I find it funny how there's a assumption made by the OP here that KoG just simpl...
Thank you!
Thank You!!
Thank You!!!
river coral
Fighters are not the issue everyone and their mom can use them it's the classes themselves that are the issue main reason my DB gets out dps'd by a dab in 18-4 with less then 300 erp and 2/4 tenebrous while im close to 400 and wearing full tenebrous is not because of fighters it's because how they both are base kit. nerfing fighters does not fix kit problems
fallen musk
Fighters were never an issue, it's either a major skill issue or said person got outdamaged by someone popping a fighter who is either a league below them or the same league. Just because one has too much gear doesn't mean it provides them the right to ask about nerfing something that actually helps the game.
gritty gorge
i would much rather the duration gets buffed to longer so i spend less when doing content that needs them
and tbh fighters are poor by desgin because it will make no difference if they existed vs buffing everyone's damage by 30%
the point that everyone is making is that when everyone's damage can be increased by 30% using the exact same consumable that everyone also has easy access to they can be considered "not there" similar to how you can remove common factors when doing math
it affects everyone equally so you can remove it from the equation
which leaves innate class balance
the problem with KOG going down the MMO trinity route (technically duality because there are no tanks in els), is that supports are conceptually supposed to increase others' damage while forgoing their own, but we start having problems because:
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els by design doesn't require you to have a support to clear any normal content whatsoever
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by extention, people who play supports become completely reliant on DPS because they do 0 damage to begin with but can't build selfish or they screw themselves out of endgame raid content. this concept CANNOT work for els
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for the supports that are able to do damage, their damage is already at or near the level of other traditional damage classes (like FB, Doombringer etc.) that their supportive kit makes them overtuned and full of utility that DPS classes want anyway
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Supports who can do damage but want to support are encouraged to build a 2nd set of support gear which i find quite unfair, they're already forced into a specific type of gear but are also forced by the community to have support gear or they are ignored over others who have the support gear
i've gone a bit off topic but i feel that it's necessary because the root cause is class balance and overall game direction, not because of fighters
void torrent
It's also a gearing problem ... Most games don't have nearly as much of a spectrum of power that elsword has
All dpses are competent in most games because the gearing to get them there is mostly just ... Get this item ... Your there ... Now go find a party
There's no enhancement gradient ... The secondary socketing thing usually isn't massive enough to make a big difference between players either
And the same goes for supports
That's not counting that most mmos also offer alternate solo progression that elsword doesn't