Class Roles & Performance

[chrome thistle]

What exactly are you proposing?

KOG needs to clarify class roles and set expectations about performance. The following should happen:
1-All classes are officially assigned the dealer, synergy dealer, and healer roles.
2-What is the base performance difference between a dealer and a synergy dealer?
3-How much does character and gear progression should affect closing this gap?

By having this official information:
1-Current and new players can make better-informed choices.
2-Improve player's discussion about balance and feedback.
3-Dispel some of the incorrect opinions around performance.
4-Holding KOG accountable when making balance choices that go against what they said to be the standards.

I like to add one thing - Please balance around Dealers and Healers. Axe Synergy dealers balancing which is just resulting in more frustrating situations.

What is the issue and why is it an issue?

The issues are that we don’t have official clarification about character roles, their performance, and the expectations of what they need to do well. This has created a very toxic player community due to the multitude of opinions that circle around that lack context and typically are grounded on bias, rather than evidence.

Another big problem is that Korea has all the say when it comes to balancing and changes. Which clearly are completely disconnected from INT/NA player’s feedback. A perfect example of this is the scrapped support changes CE would’ve received. INT/NA players were looking forward to these changes since most players use her as support. However, KR CE players use her as DPS which would affect their gearing. Also some KR players wanted her damage to brough down if she was to get the buffs. Clearly there's a disconnect.

It’s time the disconnect between KOG, KR Players, and INT/NA players is mended.

How can the suggestion be implemented?

Officially announce class roles, performance, and expectations.

[cedar warren]

Developers have a rough sense of humor. Players from Korean server are "right" in the meaning that Code: Empress was not born as support and it's developers fault if playerbase is in this situation. Turning a dps into a support like CE can be a problem for players that choose this class before this change. New players expect to support with CE, storic players lose their money and time in a dps turned in a support.

[hard current]

Maybe its just me, but I just feel like class roles in on themselves are a bit of an issue since it makes people play characters one way and one way only. Sure that's a side effect of the current game meta but saying for example that a class is strictly support might make players that want to play differently even more ostracized then they are now.

[chrome thistle]

That kind of thinking has lead to more misery than fun.

At least propose a better solution rather than retain the miserable status quo.

[tranquil night]

or say if they want to build up a support class as dps (that can also be dps because it is designed to be for both) would be an issue as well.

A good example is LA.

[humble igloo]

I don’t think much would change. Labels would just clarify what players already know. It’s not hard to distinguish that Radiant Soul is a support class. People that build RaS as a DPS knows she’s a support class.

You can’t be offended when people get confused at why you’re playing a support character as a DPS when their kit was designed for supporting.

[ocean spade]

ok ill bite

what's a synergy dealer

cause i've never heard of that

[sour forge]

A class that can do both support and dps but do neither of those extremely well

(supposedly)

[ocean spade]

then why not just call it hybrids? synergy dealers is just a weird name especially with a system called synergy, yet has nothing to do with this

anyway, disagreeing here

people will complain when their supports are just not dealing enough damage for clearing and dps will complain they're not dealing enough damage for one reason or 50

having "official information" isn't going to change it

[sour forge]

That term synergy dealer was taken from the kr community

nobody in NA rly uses it

It's just called "Support DPS"

[brave sapphire]

I just can't see why a official label for something that already sucks (class discrimination) would be good for the game
People already exclude some classes from raiding even if you are properly geared to do it, it will get worse if we get official labels to justify class discrimination

[chrome thistle]

Because leaving it as it, hasn't resulted in it getting fix. Class discrimination will remain as long as players continue to have wrong expectations and flame each other because of it.

[brave sapphire]

Like I said, official labels will only make it worse
You give people an excuse to think that an specific class can only be a HDPS or can only be a sub DPS and that will make it even worse for the unwanted classes to progress in game
The best way to get rid of class discrimination would be for people to actually learn to check status/gear while building a pt, but I'm aware that asking that from players in general is too much

[tranquil night]

Honestly I agree, this suggestion itself sucks, also I think kog should make class discrimination bannable.

As it should not be used as a reason to deny a player the right to raid on their character and force them to change to another class they might not like or even know how to properly use.

While I agree that performance changes need to happen, having labels allow for more discrimination.

[chrome thistle]

That already exist. It's not just about official labels. It's about make it officially known what each class is meant to be effective as and be balanced around it.

[chrome thistle]

You can't enforce such a radical notion. Ultimately it comes down to the person forming and the confidence on the people they recruit to run the content.

[tranquil night]

Does not mean that the person forming the party is not discriminating against one that is well equipped and everything but is a little less than 300 erp for berthe raids (when they got 45%+ adapt as well and should be able to survive and be a low dps at least when trying to stage 3).

[chrome thistle]

It's up to the person that feels that way to make their case that they should be taken. You can't just put a rule like that.

Personally I like trying different comps to see different results. But to each their own.

[tranquil night]

But it should not be that way though, they should look at the equipment's and stats over erp and make their decisions from there.

Because in a way erp should not matter, there are some with 300 erp that do not last long at all in berthe.

[brave sapphire]

You know that class discrimination is real when even at pts of your attack type they would rather take an opposite attack type support than you
Because your class is supposed to be a "DPS class"
It sucks and happens way too much in physical pts

[tranquil night]

and magical

I seen a lot of magical parties deny me and bring in immortal or KE's in my place.

[chrome thistle]

It's hardly a class discrimination issue when it comes to being select to clear content. There's also server rep, how many people know you have cleared and do well in your class, etc. It's more complicated then just class preference.

[tranquil night]

What you are describing is favoritism towards a specific player.

[brave sapphire]

Besides, you don't get blacklisted unless you are a recorrent troll
Most people will be patient if you mess up but explain that you are learning or apologize for messing up

[chrome thistle]

That's correct. If you do communicate this upfront that is.

[tranquil night]

Yep, there a players who deliberately mess up as well though, ones who mess up from being away from game for a while (rusty), and ones who are new.

[brave sapphire]

People usually don't mind carrying others if they aren't being malicious during gameplay
So clearing ability isn't something that is really heightened on pt making

[tranquil night]

Also with this logic that means that famous players like vtubers for example would always be accepted over non-vtubers.

[chrome thistle]

That's not true. There's plenty of well known players that people avoid running with because of personality issue, etc.

[tranquil night]

True, but if you are not well known much or a single person hates you because for example "You play better than they do." then you also got a problem as well.

Like for example I knew of an immortal who could outdamage another immortal with +11 VoS using their +10 FoJ and that other immortal hated them for it.

[chrome thistle]

Those things are beyond the game. You are talking about peoples behaviors.

[tranquil night]

Yes but people do that all the time to try to give people bad rep for no reason at all.

All because of them being jealous that another player is able to play better than them.

[chrome thistle]

I feel you. Having clear expectation would help alleviate that. Since people would know what to expect based on their class and progression, and instead of taking peoples opinions about others at face value, they could look for themselves and decide if it's true or not.

But at least, if the game made it's standard clears - we would have a foundation to form better opinions.

[tranquil night]

And part of the issue also is staging, they should have made stage 3 and 4 allow story mode (at 2x the requirement from normal) and lock stage 5 to normal mode.

That way players who are treated this way can still do staging in story mode when they cant progress further because of this problem.

[chrome thistle]

You should make a post about that. 👍

[tranquil night]

Also it would help people who are treated this way if actual GM's made spam parties every day to help people do staging as well that otherwise cant go into berthe because of this treatment.

[chrome thistle]

Find friends or a guild that does that.

[tranquil night]

Even if it by event and special 5x count medals.

[tranquil night]

could, but if kog's GM's did that too that would help as well.

[chrome thistle]

Sounds like there's suggestion posts that are waiting for you to create them.

[chrome thistle]

I don't know. They live in CA...

[tranquil night]

Also 5x count medals (or a special event buff that does it instead) for growth quests from events could be great as well because then 100 runs (from stage 2 to stage 4) would mean a total of about 20 runs which can be possible by the GM's as well.