#Thrusterhaul

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tiny cradle
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An overhaul to the thruster system, allowing the replacement and tuning of each thruster individually.

(also the related suggestion I made towards this from yonks ago, just for reference: #1200344908519702609 message)

image.png 📎 Thrusterhaul.zip
arctic arch
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How badly does this mess with autopilot?

tiny cradle
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I've not had any issues. iirc koder did say that the engine is capable of supporting it

arctic arch
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Nice.

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How does transit work? Can you transit with the one Elon thruster you have stached somewhere?

tiny cradle
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I honestly couldn't say for sure, although I would assume it would take it into account. I haven't really done too much testing, it is currently a proof of concept more than anything

chrome osprey
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One message removed from a suspended account.

austere jasper
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Doesn't seem to work for me? How / what should I be looking for, exactly?

tiny cradle
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should be a load of slots at the bottom of the list, all without proper names (something like SLOT_RCS_XX or smth)

austere jasper
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Maybe I didn't scroll far enough, I'll double check after dinner

austere jasper
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Nope.... nothing at the bottom of anywhere. Checked Titan and OCP both. NOPE I'M DUMB

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I just realized what happened.... 😄

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Wrong directory, from when I was playing with install locations. Game launches from C:, I've got the mods in P: still.......

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Der

tiny cradle
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oop

tiny cradle
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i would like feedback on the names, as ships with two thrusters in a corner (K37s and OCPs especially), do have very similar names to their neighbor, so any suggestions will be welcome

austere jasper
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Yeah, the nomenclature can be a little confusing, internally

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I'd probably go with Port and Starboard (don't start 😄 ), and Fore / Aft / aMidship.

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For the rare occurrence of multiple amidships groupings, nomenclature could be as follows:

FP-------FS
MfP------MfS
MaP------MaS
AP------As

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As viewed with vessel oriented to 0 degrees

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Or any arrangement of the terms that makes the most sense

tiny cradle
austere jasper
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Considering we don't have amidships radial mounting arrangements, I think it's probably the best route

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And the nomenclature still works for Cothon and EIME singular stalks, too

tiny cradle
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the kitsune is about the only one with an odd but symmetrical mounting of RCS, which I just named the rear thruster, everything else should have left and right variants

austere jasper
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I always foryet about that abomination 😂

tiny cradle
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yeah, I had to add a slot just for that as I didn't want to choose between a left or right slot

tiny cradle
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I think I've just had an idea for how to differentiate the non-lateral thrusters, instead referring to them as forward and reverse thrusters, how does that sound to people?

chrome osprey
tiny cradle
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alright, guess i may as well give it a shot

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how does something like this look?

image.png
chrome osprey
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One message removed from a suspended account.

tiny cradle
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yeah, i do plan on changing that. it was the main issue as to why it's not a thing in game already

chrome osprey
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One message removed from a suspended account.

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One message removed from a suspended account.

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tiny cradle
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that's very true, but i do want to honour a concept i had with the original suggestion: #1200344908519702609 message

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i do however need to figure out the how for this though

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i'm making myself suffer for the sake of a really cool idea

chrome osprey
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One message removed from a suspended account.

steady garden
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Isn't there also one aft mid thruster on one ship, kitsune?

How likely is this to be compatible with mod ships? Might be better to number instead of guess, where you work with nonstandard ships.

tiny cradle
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yeah, the rear thruster on the kitsune literally goes by Rear RCS Mount, maybe i might change it to bring it more in line with the other changes i made since
as for compatibility, it shouldn't interfere with them as I have these slots only appear with ships using the modified thruster slots, and have the vanilla thruster and torch slots not appear on vanilla ships, although considering I've already checked, it doesn't appear to like to work with vanilla ships already modified by another mod before this mod loads

wicked kayak
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can this work with IoE or no

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to clarify, its not the comp rewrite one

tiny cradle
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sadly not currently. IoE was my benchmark for comparison and it doesn't work. I am yet to try changing mod priority however

wicked kayak
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however, does it work for the comp rewrite or does thrusterhaul not with either?

tiny cradle
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not with it either, once again I still want to test with a different priority

wicked kayak
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alright thats fine
i'll wait patiently besides i haven't played dV in a while

tiny cradle
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I wouldn't expect anything anytime soon however, this mod is about as intrusuve as the original IoE for how it changes slots

wicked kayak
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take as much time as you need
besides i wasn't expecting anything soon since IoE is really stupid to work with (I have been silently observing the modding scene)

tiny cradle
austere jasper
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Just got it running and ..... OML this is absurd 🤣

steady garden
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So it seems like the compatibility-friendly way to implement it would be to cycle through thrusters and add equipment slots for each other found, but I can't imagine a good way to name them so it's obvious what position they have.

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Maybe by the direction they face (eg retrograde) combined with their position relative to center. (Port retrograde.)

steady garden
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All that sounds like so much more trouble than it's worth, though.

austere jasper
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I wondered about just numbering them, fore to aft? For K-series with simply fore and aft sets> Port 1, Port 2. For Titans with 5 sets/ positions> Port 1, 2, 3, 4, 5?

steady garden
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If angle is useable, you'd have port retrograde 1, port lateral 1, port lateral 2, port lateral 3, port prograde 1.

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The eagle and similar would mess with that a bit. Close to 45 degrees.

austere jasper
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Mmmmmm, lateral isn't bad.

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Better than my naval terminology 🤣

steady garden
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If you can get angle vs the COM, you could determine mathematically if it's primarily translation or rotation.

Then you could call them rotation or translation thrusters.

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The eagle and Cothon both have angled thrust, but for different purposes.

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Or hybrid if it's too close to call.

austere jasper
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I mean, given gimballs, all thrusters could be both, on most platforms, no?

steady garden
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Well, yes, but their center should inform what they're designed to do, and that's helpful in telling me which is which.

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But again, that sounds like more math than the problem is worth when port 1, port 2, etc is a sufficient solution.

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I wonder if there's something in the code you can use to help - some APs are aware of what's useful for rotation, but that's probably done dynamically, on the fly.

austere jasper
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In the save data, they are called things like RF, FR, MR, ML, LF, etc

steady garden
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Even for modded ships and oddballs like the eagle or ME? That's the trick, is being able to not care where the ship came from.

tiny cradle
tiny cradle
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ok, finally coming back to this project, and first test slot seems to work with other mods now, just to do the other 19 slots...

qe2imRP.png
austere jasper
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Wait, you have to apply fix to EACH SLOT INDIVIDUALLY???

tiny cradle
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technically yes, since i'm switching to using hevlib to make it actually easy to get compatability, i do have to remake each one

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although considering i'm just copy-pasting this, with a few minor tweaks to change slot type, it's not that bad:

const ThrustersTL = {
    "system_slot":"propulsion.rcstl",
    "slot_node_name":"ThrustersTL",
    "slot_display_name":"SLOT_RCS_TL",
    "always_display":false,
    "slot_type":"STANDARD_REACTION_CONTROL_THRUSTERS", 
}
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ok, got them done. unfortunately the restriction to working on only vanilla ships still exists, but should still make it work better with mods

hBWC2Ya.png
austere jasper
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I love seeing the evolution of mods, though, esp where you begin to get requirements of some mod for all others to work 🤣 Like Fallouts' Script Extenders

tiny cradle
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absolutely

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also, i just noticed a few errors: 1) vanilla thruster slots still appearing on ships for whatever reason (can prob fix with a minor slot adjustment), and 2) i also forgot to remove empty equipment from thruster slots, but it's a cool enough thing i'm keeping it as a feature

austere jasper
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We all know the old adage: 'a bug is anything you can't convince a user is a feature' 🤣

tiny cradle
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exactly :P

tiny cradle
tiny cradle
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another issue that's more apparent with this mod than IoE, but the slots are pretty arbitrarily sorted, considering it comes from the exact same source. i didn't notice much with IoE considering there's only a small handful there, but i'll get a fix sorted soon enough

austere jasper
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'Hidden' naming system that lets the engine sort them?

tiny cradle
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close, i took a similar path and just had another file define the order. pretty much works as follows:

const SLOT_ORDER = [
    "ThrustersTL",
    "ThrustersTR",
    "ThrustersBL",
    "ThrustersBR",
    "ThrustersUL",
    "ThrustersUR",
    "ThrustersDL",
    "ThrustersDR",
    "ThrustersCL",
    "ThrustersCR",
    "ThrustersBB",
    "TorchesBL",
    "TorchesBC",
    "TorchesBR",
    "TorchesLR",
    "TorchesLC",
    "TorchesLF",
    "TorchesRR",
    "TorchesRC",
    "TorchesRF",
]
austere jasper
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Until Koder adds that one ship with two more thrusters 🤣

tiny cradle
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the mad-cerf i believe should be covered by this from what i remember

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ok yeah it is, but i don't know if the frigate would

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lemmie check

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ok yeah it would actually fuck it over, frigate has 10 RCS, and it's main drives aren't even covered by it

austere jasper
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How are the main torches not covered?

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Could you write some kind of detection and auto populate thing?

tiny cradle
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modded ships aren't yet supported, for the pure reason that i don't have one of those yet

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i don't really have an idea as to the how for that yet, but that's for after i finish up a few other things. I want to clear a few things off of backlog before i try anything new like that

austere jasper
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Right

tiny cradle
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i still have the research thing i was talking about a few weeks back that i'm yet to even start working on, and that's something i've been kinda looking forward to setting in motion

austere jasper
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I'm looking forward to it, tbh. I wish I could be less apathetic about code, and make some of my own. Just, between life and other things, I simply cannot be bothered to learn YET ANOTHER new thing

tiny cradle
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yup, that's also kinda why i've been working heavily on the equipment stuff for hevlib a lot lately, as it's about the most tedious part of modding imo, and any part of simplifying it is always a good thing

austere jasper
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I do like the idea of hevlib being a good backend for future mods. Like, just having something that lets modders have an easier time, because a bunch of things are done already, kind of deal

tiny cradle
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yeah, that's absolutely the point of it really. picking up IoE and putting it in a state that let it work with other mods really did show how much time can go into something as simple as adding equipment to a slot. I think it took me about an hour and something, maybe more, to copy, paste, and move about the equipment added by it in the upgrades menu to put them in the vanilla slots

austere jasper
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Oof

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At least it was mostly tedium, and not like..... hair pulling frustrations, though

tiny cradle
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yeah, for better or for worse those hair pulling frustrations came about when trying to remedy the tedium :P

austere jasper
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🤣

prime siren
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how do I confirm if thrusterhaul is functional or not? Vanilla ship, vanilla thrusters. I only have one equipment slot for RCS thrusters. I can only pick all as the same thing. And in the tuning menu, there is a single tuning slider for all of them at once.

tiny cradle
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If there's individual slots for each thruster then its working. This mod has been on back burner for a while, so I wouldn't expect anything compatible with other mods for a while

prime siren
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ok

astral meteor
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i noticed that autopilots that do fly by wire dont use gimballed thrust outside autopilot with partial thrusters from this mod

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i have a vulture with all k37 thrusters except the rear port and rear starboard being PNTRm thrusters, they gimball if i use autopilot to accelerate, but not manual, and i have the k337 max

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wait my bad for not trying more first