#New ship - with a hybrid drive

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

toxic palm
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Working name: Coraxo Piadph (literally "Thunder Jaws", in Enochian)

Hybrid reactor ship with the ability to switch between a fission or fusion reactor (or both!) depending on the current needs of the operators.

This is, essentially, a more down-to-earth and reliable counterpart to the EIME - a ship that can take advantage both of the raw power and efficiency of fusion as well as the reliability of fission, while being purpose-built for excavation.

It features 1 heavy mount and 2 light ones (this is up for adjustment ofc), 2 main engine mounts, and most notably a giant asteroid crusher in place of cargo bay doors. I'd like it to be able to handle a bit more than the prospector, with the grinder being one of the main ways to destroy rocks with this ship. Hence the name, too.

The aesthetics borrow a bit from EI, with the idea being that this is a ship manufactured by a company founded by disgruntled engineers who left EI due to overworking, bad working conditions, and questionable morals of the executive branch.

engines.png Glamor_shot.png Grinders.png topview.png
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New ship - with a hybrid drive

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I'm also thinking - maybe it could have an expandable cargo bay?

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either that or a very small cargo bay with a large processed storage

drifting dew
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Both cargo alternatives - expandable bay and small bay/large processed storage sound interesting. Variants maybe ? 🤓

On the backend however - wouldn't carrying two different reactors be a bit questionable engineering in terms of mass and infrastructure?

toxic palm
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I mean, hmm

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Maybe

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But the ship sprouted from the idea that we'd like a hybrid

At the very least it's a great contingency - you get all the benefits of a fusion reactor, while the smaller fission reactor provides the means for a cold start (since you need a large jolt of energy to start fusion) and functions as a backup in case the main reactor fails

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Think of it like a built-in auxiliary power system

sullen ermine
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so a gas generator in a powerline powered bulding type of situation

heavy flame
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something that annoys me with the eagle is that a lot of the crushed chunks will drift away from the excavator afterwards, hopefully this wouldn't have the same problem

sullen ermine
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thats an issue with how new smaller roids spawn after the big one is broken... they look for free space to spawn in and where you want em is where your ship currently is

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so they spawn around... similar issue with ocp having roids phase throught the wall of cargobay

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anways back to the ship

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how would the extendable cargo bay work?

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elongating the front of the ship has unfortunate sideeffect of ruining its mobility so hopefuly not that

toxic palm
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The two large shapes on the sides could extend laterally

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Making the ship very wide

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Which I think could be nice since we're severely lacking wide ships in this game, they're all long

drifting dew
toxic palm
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Could be

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Still in the air

sullen ermine
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as i once said

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Multirate: "but a ship that more wide than long would be a nice change"

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i wish there was easier way to search old posts... got many suggestions id like to return to for this topic

drifting dew
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Maybe you could create some backstory, why this level of redundancy and/or endurance was deemed needed in the ship.
Maybe like remote long range missions as primary design goal.

sullen ermine
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well what i got from this is that fusion reactors are sensitive as hell to impacts so in case it gets borked beyond operational your fission reactor will kick in

toxic palm
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I have a few things in mind at least, mostly related to how the people behind this design have an exact opposite mentality to the company they broke away from - reliability and repairability are prime concerns, at the cost of the ship feeling less shiny and snappy

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I'm debating over whether to make any visible piping or cables to give it more of an industrial look but we'll see

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There's also a big unfinished bit at the back but ignore that

sullen ermine
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where was i going with this?

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also the middle link has nothing to do with ships... i totaly lost the plot

sullen ermine
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what about storing processed ore in a liquid state? Since the fission reactor would be doing jack while the fusion one is working it could be used to constantly heat the ore allowing it to flow like water sting like bee and fill containers more efficiently

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and if you let it cool down before pumping in different type of ore it would stay in separate layers allowing for storing of different metals in one storage unit

sturdy marsh
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useful for a four-week or month cruise to the inner system

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not as useful for the 12-hour trip to E-prime and back, but still present

drifting dew
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That was the direction i initially though as well.
But this -while possible- omits the plot hook of the possibility (and therefore design requirement) to re-ignite the fusion core.
So maybe something more exotic even - the ship might be going cold (uncrewed or maybe with only maintaining a small crew compartment on the lessened fission power) for the long transit and then re-ignite the fusion for the acceleration and braking manoeuvres at the start/end of the journey.
Like some kind of long range tug maybe.

sturdy marsh
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Perhaps the fusion core’s not designed for sustained usage? It needs a substantial proportion of its output used? Or perhaps open-cycle cooling of a few kilos a second- something that only makes sense in the Rings?

native fjord
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Could also use a Tokamak-style reactor - which cannot provide constant power output - instead of a Stellarator. That would facilitate the need for large power storage and the backup reactor.

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The Tokamak could be cheaper and more reliable than the Stellarator. Would fit the "more sensible engineering than EIME" approach.

drifting dew
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The explanations for why a Fusion core would need backup make sense. But they leave out an important point: Why is it needed in the first place?

Fission cores can cover all the in rings requirements just fine, as far as we can tell.
If we want Fusion Torches for a fuel efficient high power transit trajectory - ZAPs also run fine on Fission cored ships.

This is why EIME is considered a "less sensible" design in the first place. It's not that its core is bad its that it serves no purpose. But at least the EIME does not need to carry a second reactor, to cover for the gaps in Fusion power.

If the Fusion core is designed "to be crap" (or to put it less aggressively: with very severe limitations requiring a back up system) then it goes right back to the awkward engineering question: what justifies using space and mass for it?

So to make for a sensible hybrid design the Fusion part needs to be
a) not crap and
b) serve a distinct functional requirement

sullen ermine
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sensible? cuz they need to sell more fusion training courses for mechanics... is that sensible? 😄

nimble basin
# toxic palm Working name: Coraxo Piadph (literally "Thunder Jaws", in Enochian) Hybrid reac...

Keep in mind, Koder is going to account for what parts weigh. You're going to be carrying the weight of both reactors, which is probably most of any ship's dry weight. She'll probably be a brick.

She'll also probably be canonically unbalanced if that left-right configuration is from mismatched reactors. The grinders also look like they'll carry some heft around; they're not solid from top to bottom, I see, but they're probably more it needs to guide mined material in.

toxic palm
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as far as it being a hybrid I'm sure Koder will be on board since it was his pitch 😄

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as for the reactors they'll go in the currently very empty and flat area on the back of the ship

sturdy marsh
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Yeah it just seems like a bad idea for the rings.

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Is there any equipment ingame that needs the power of fusion? Either directly or practically?

sturdy marsh
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I’m visualizing either a “racer”, with a stripped down fusion reactor that’s just the Z-pinch torch, or an old ship; something where the fission reactor was required per safety codes because the fusion one was prone to crapping out? Improving tech removed the hazard, but the safety requirement’s still on the books?

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if the EIME was the first commercially viable one, this was the first non-viable one

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the g-wiz to the tesla

nimble basin
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What are the giant fins encircling two big cores, if that's not radiators around reactors? It's not like ZAPs are taking up that space.

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Not saying Koder's wouldn't be on board, just that he will recognize their weight, and reactor weight is a lot, so, brick.

cyan turtle
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so cool!

toxic palm
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but I do know I want the engine mounts to have that sort of look

nimble basin
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We've sort of cultivated a look in which the drives aren't visible, except the drive bell. But those might smooth out nicely into a Defiant-style rounded cross-section, and it could get radiators in strips like that, similar to the prospector radiator, along the curve.

toxic palm
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like this perchance

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nimble basin
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I was thinking keep the wide-and-flat general shape to keep it some similarity to the EI, given it's supposed to be a counterpart in some ways. But instead of the huge nacelles, which only really show up as an aesthetic where they house reactors (like the CERF), have them as part of the ship's body, rounding out the sides and mounting radiators right and left.

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The defiant reference was to the DS9 Defiant's flat, kinda 'froggy' shape.

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Like, to integrate them into the shape rather than keep them separate. That roundness kind of has similarities to the hex profile the ME presents head-on, but it's also soft in a way that's totally antithetical to the angular design philosophy.

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If I'm still confusing, I can try to whiteboard it in paint or something.

toxic palm
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nono I think I see what you mean

nimble basin
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I need to investigate how discord apps work to see if I can just use that whiteboard app anywhere or if it would have to be added to a server first. I suspect the latter.

toxic palm
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I'm not sure where I'm going with this but it sure is going somewhere

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nevermind this is just the krait from the Elite series

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nimble basin
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I mean, not gonna kill anybody (outside the game) if it looks similar to an existing ship. Can't treat our inspirations as landmines.

toxic palm
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true true that's pretty true

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Wedge

nimble basin
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Not sure its chunkiness lends itself to combat-esque profiles, though.

toxic palm
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more like this perchance

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(ignore the different colors, the raw color transform was hurting my eyes)

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(by gosh it makes everything look so saturated)

green current
green current
shy sierra
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As far as the original art is concerned, I think a shredder style cutter would probably be 'better'? The twin cammed roller style, instead of multiple stacked, serrated, HDD platter blades.

nimble basin
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I was thinking of this kind of conversion.

8FCA3C16-EE52-40FF-A094-EC27C05FDD21.png
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Lose the angles like these entirely, in the process:

391382F8-5D0C-42F7-A426-0424A7D856FD.png
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So, still flat, like the ME, still bulging in the middle, like the ME, but with a design contour that's totally alien to the ME's design aesthetic. Real curves!

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The curved hull would probably run ahead of the fins a bit, to make the curves a clearer design feature. And the fins - which aren't really configured well as a radiator - might just be a slightly elevated platform for Prospector-style belt radiators to run on, to distance the radiative surface from parts that might leech heat back into the coolant line. (Or something.)

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They'll be glowing, so it's not like they have to be big to get attention.

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And I should probably @toxic palm for this.

toxic palm
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I already saw it 😈

nimble basin
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Curses. A waste of my good will. You FIEND.

toxic palm
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maybe a more organic shape altogether?

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toxic palm
toxic palm
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but curious about your thoughts on the general silhouette

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and here's the front

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nimble basin
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This is actually the angle I was thinking of rounding, right here:

The outward bulge angle is kind of a Cybertruck and ME feature that is shared, so if we're making a ship that's supposed to counterpoint it, it would be cool to subvert the identifying brand features.

CB1E4211-F0F8-446D-BD54-E16074CD2D55.png
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I don't think we want to round TOO much, because even the weirdo billionaire entries should be at least somewhat industrial.

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Also, tell me if you don't like the idea, I am able to deal with that. I don't want to keep pushing it if you already perfectly understand me and just don't think it'd be good.

toxic palm
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overdesigned it a little maybe

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toxic palm
nimble basin
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Okay, now that just looks like a Fissovore space creature that eats ships.

toxic palm
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Honestly if I cut it up a little bit this look might even work

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right now it's a bit too uniform and organic but if it gets interrupted with scaffolds and tanks and the like

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meh maybe not actually

nimble basin
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We could probably keep angles here, while keeping the sides rounded.

92B73BDA-BBE7-4E75-9A2C-F8A50C73AD03.png
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The swallowtails . . . . I'm not so sure about.

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Don't forget that some greebles will also probably be added as you find places to mount RCS.\

toxic palm
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it reminds me of some sort of insect

sullen ermine
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just the way the front is set up it would not allow anything trough you need to make space for the grinding wheels to go to the side

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unless the swivel foward

toxic palm
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Ah right I didn't move the joints back

toxic palm
sullen ermine
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something like that

angle_of_motion.bmp
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oh so now i get no preview huh....

sullen ermine
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just a small note... these designs look like they are ment to move on 2d plane

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while that is true in game the ship design should still aknowlage that its suppose to move up down and rotate as well

sullen ermine
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like the fact that 212 has three struts for rcs while ingame it only uses two of em

shy sierra
nimble basin
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If we're using that as a design feature, I'm not sure they should be emissive; radiators should be somewhere else, just because the coolant line would be absorbing heat from the drive plume's emissions.

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Or it could be an addressable RGB lighting system that you can configure in tuning. 🙂

nimble basin
# sullen ermine something like that

Regarding this - you need more than two. Three is the minimum for the AI to handle both turning and translation at the same time. Otherwise they have trouble being able to translate and rotate at the same time.

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Even that's kind of not great - it's why we switched the ME from two big RCS thrusters (double power on one bell, basically, like how the cothon gets extra power for the hidden thrusters) to two triads of them.

sullen ermine
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there would still be rcs obviously

nimble basin
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Yeah, I just mean more than two of them.

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I assumed that corner arc prepresented the range of motion that a gimballed RCS would sit in, but maybe I'm lookng at it wrong.

sullen ermine
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nah thats the main engine

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top red lines represent the drill/grinder/auger and the side 180 degree angle is the main engine capable going foward or sideways and a bit to the other side backwards

narrow stump
drifting dew
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I think too organic of a shape would not really fit the games style so far. Even tho different manufactures have their different looks, most of the equipment - even the EIME - does seem rather utilitarian in desgin. And then a ship that has the premise of being more sensible than the EIME, i don't really see, why the engineers would go through the trouble of giving it too smooth of a shape - which for a space ship is a purely cosmetic choice (unless maybe we intend atmospheric landings, but that would be unlikely with nuclear engines).

shy sierra
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That being said, there IS an AI collective out there somewhere doing things. A nice smooth AI designed random encounter that is player flyable and collectible, albeit quite rare, might be a neat idea

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F1, Koenigsegg, and SpaceX (maybe NASA, too?) are already using parts designed by 'AI' for various purposes. Why would it be so unusual for that to be widespread 200 years from now?

narrow stump
narrow stump
shy sierra
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I mean, SpaceX is funded not ONLY by govt monies, but also private funding, so they have a heads up on the decendants of the old German scientists stuck in their old ways of yesteryear.

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But, also palso, that being said, again>> That blue 'overdesigned' model could use a little more AI inference, and would do very well as a 'Dorito Mk2'???

gaunt oriole
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That blue one reminds me of these psionic alien ships from an old game.

wet sentinel
nimble basin
sullen ermine
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You could just lock the drive gimball

nimble basin
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I'm not sure why it didn't pan out, but we don't have non-gimballed drives that can gimbal on the ME, so I'm assuming it doesn't pan out.

sullen ermine
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i just thought you fellas found it funny how they stick to the side copying the shape of the ship 😄

shy sierra
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I wonder sometimes about a ship that has gimbals, but they are fairly limited in range. So you could gain gimballization from non-gimballed thrusters, and increase the range of currently available models.

nimble basin
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That's what we initially had planned for the ME.

lyric stratus