[SPDX] Industries of Enceladus

[hollow grail]

ahaha

god, imagine

[vagrant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/mcqueen-gif-25874245

[crude steppe]

Shift is pressed
Return to Enceladus
Seriosly why you need another one?

[hollow grail]

nevermind returning to enceladus, you're visiting Andromeda

[vagrant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/yeet-naruto-sakura-yeetnaruto-gif-21167415

[vagrant topaz]

btw, ive managed to get my mass to 17k tons in one dive

aka 17m kg

[hollow grail]

lol fantastic

i do wonder how that's even possible but you've been tweaking things

how high is your MPU efficiency lmao

[vagrant topaz]

10 iirc

[hollow grail]

oh yeah that'll do it

[vagrant topaz]

with 100x cap multi due to MM mod

[hollow grail]

physical laws are for the weak

matter from nothing? sounds like a band

[vagrant topaz]

lmao

i need to tweak the transfer speed of the dynamic cans cus it cant keep up with only 500 transfer speed

[hollow grail]

i got annoyed by inheritance so i made a programmatic fix for some of my issues lol

so rn the way arms work, they have a preconfigured "feed velocity"

that's how fast they try to pull stuff, and in what direction

arms don't just pull stuff towards the excavator - they need to be configured to do that on every ship

so instead of doing some fucked up inheritance teleporting or whatever, i've gone with the easier solution of just... having the node give it a value

i mean fuck it, right

[atomic hatch]

I have re-encountered the 1million kg limit on the obonto, space bar, and G.A.Station arms and now am sad, found an obonto paying a premium for tungsten when i had 40tons of the stuff, but was 1080426 kg

[hollow grail]

sad! i'll have a look for you though

[atomic hatch]

for the behavior, they just refuse to interact with you over that point, theyll tell you they want to buy, when contacted, but the arms wont respond to you at all and resources wont drain even when in the right spot, and you cant pay for a round of drinks at the spacebar
||Which is different from a normal "we dont like you, and have revoked docking clearance" where their arms will still try to reach you and if you let them turn off your auto pilot will shove you away, but if you stay where they can reach you but dont let them turn off your auto pilot (hold right click, or X) theyll still pull resources and pay you for them||

[hollow grail]

yeah there's a mass limit on arms

i think it's measured in metric tons, and the max is about 500t

[atomic hatch]

shouldnt the limit be 500,000kg then? not 1million?

[hollow grail]

idk lol umm

so my graphics card just went to hardware heaven

as such i won't be able to do any mod dev for a few days

this is a good time to remind folks that i have a kofi and you can donate to help me actually be able to afford a new gpu lol https://ko-fi.com/pearshapes

UUUUGHH fuuuck
i had that ship in the pipeline too

[atomic hatch]

dang dude, i know how much that sucks, had my previous computers card shoot shit, had to spend like 3-4months on a Geforce 730, lemme tell you, you learn to get really, really good at performance optimization, its not even good enough to watch videos on youtube at 1080

[hollow grail]

yeah i had it happen in the past

gtx1050 iirc

it just stopped working one day

well, it started stuttering and shit

so i pulled it out and had to run on nothing for months, just igpu
my processor doesn't have an igpu

all things considered tho this GPU has been through hell. i got it used and refurbished like 5 years ago

oh yeah

i just remembered something i'd really like to do

so currently ship crew capacity and morale bonuses are fixed, right

yall can probably guess where i'm going with this one
hold modifiers but for the crew hab

more crew, more comfort, with a sort of scale between
more crew, less comfort / more comfort, less crew

maybe separate them though

at the high end i'd have comfort and crew additions

[graceful oasis]

lol making it so i can get even more space on my eagle after welding 2 lifepods to outside of it

[hollow grail]

that's hilariously doable

thrusterslot primarily works with sprites

[hollow grail]

resharing from dv general, posted by snownukitro

just so i remember

another one for Sin Space Engineering

resectioned TNTRL with an OCP bay, what could go wrong

[graceful oasis]

depending on which excavator is used, it could be pretty amazing or it could go terribly wrong

[hollow grail]

i'm divided between the standard excavator or straight up just reimplementing the OCP's sliding bay

i prefer the former, maybe bigger though

[graceful oasis]

guess that makes sense

imagine you keep the sideways high stress but only use one, would be very funny with an arm

[hollow grail]

lmao

[graceful oasis]

lol two things that do not go hand in hand

im gonna see how far i can push this it's kinda entertaining messing with huge masses

[crude steppe]

0.097 TJ...

[graceful oasis]

lol

[hollow grail]

how on god

[graceful oasis]

it gets worse too lol

[graceful oasis]

i modded in some stupidly high mass values and messed around with it

[crude steppe]

#delta-v message
Heavier than a moonlet...

[graceful oasis]

that gives me an idea. imma try ramming one of those big ones

[crude steppe]

Big moonlet is heavier, good.

[hollow grail]

https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/classes/class_float.html

in case you were wondering what the max value is

afaik rigidbody2d mass implements float

[graceful oasis]

pretty big, but i dont feel the need to go that big

[hollow grail]

coward

anyway the stat is x1000 in measurements

0.001 = 1 kg

[crude steppe]

Tons

[graceful oasis]

i tried 90 kt (at about 100 m/s) for fun, and literally just slid down the side of it

was very weird

now to see what happens when i go above that

[hollow grail]

i think asteroids are 'pinned' to the background

er, moonlets

same with obonto habs

[graceful oasis]

i've moved the small moonlets before, but never tried with the larger ones

i guess you might be right actually

had this and still put to a standstill

[crude steppe]

You could move smaller ones on previous versions

[graceful oasis]

that's probably what i did previously. didn't know that was changed

[crude steppe]

Can't find anything that says it was changed, maybe your drives can't move you and moonlet or some other weird behaviour because of your mass

[graceful oasis]

i remember there was one patch notes that said something about measures were taken to fine people deorbiting moonlets, can't find it, but perhaps that was it

still, an interesting bit of testing nontheless

[vagrant topaz]

alright, your fucking insane

[crude steppe]

Found it, here is fee.
#news message
And here is more recent deorbit update
#news message

[graceful oasis]

tyty

[graceful oasis]

i know 😄

[hollow grail]

so on the agenda when i get my new gpu finally

umm

release k225 stubby
work on fucked up ocp-37

[rare hill]

I owe you a crack pipe

[hollow grail]

fantastic

i will smake soooomuch

this is what they look like

(this is a CRT)

oh right i keep forgetting
@crude steppe i'll check out your pull rq the moment i get back on pc

idk how it all works but ideally id like to merge the branches

[crude steppe]

Yeah it's safe to merge, as I just added files, no changes to your branch

[hollow grail]

kewl

ya when theres later developments i should be able to approve and merge at leisure

just need to actually get on the pc first

[hollow grail]

my pc is working!! ever so briefly lol

hopefully i can get some stuf done before stuff happens, but i'm not going to jinx it

[hollow grail]

so i'd like to put it to a vote

i don't think i can make votes

react to this message if you want the OCP-37 to have:

🟠 : an OCP cargo bay
🔸 : standard excavator for k37
🔶 : big excavator (like the Pelican)

[crude steppe]

I think it should be welded shut, as ocp bay intersects with "braces" on k37

[hollow grail]

yeah i personally prefer it being welded

[hollow grail]

big excavator it is

whenever i get around to it, lol
i'm currently just working on the stubby

looking good

oh yeah, right, i was gonna add crew mods

[hollow grail]

yknow i like the idea of crew and morale kits being separate but i don't want to clutter the menu

[hollow grail]

i've finalised the stubby i reckon

[hollow grail]

and crew mods are in

[hollow grail]

initial release will only include some Conlido kits as is customary

you'll also notice the addition of a crew hab quality sensor

this'll show you how good your crew quarters are (and thus how much morale will degrade over time spent in the rings)

you can achieve a pretty low morale with just the bunks on a vulture lol

[hollow grail]

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.6.0

and she's out

[hollow grail]

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.6.1

...2!

lol

[crude steppe]

Yeah I was quick)

[hollow grail]

maybe i should communicate with you to coordinate better lmfao, my bad

[crude steppe]

@hollow grail Hey, the stubby k225 doesn't have the cargo bay size listed. Didn't notice it when translating.

[hollow grail]

oh yeah

i forgot that

i'll correct it for the next release

if there's no critical bugs i'm feeling like getting started on the accursed OCP-TNTRL

actually if someone could send me a screenie of the stubby's cargo bay preview that'd be great

ok i got it

it's more like 280 or so

[severe adder]

How do you come up with the dry mass of a ship? Are there any calculations involved, or is it a more... relaxed approach?

Same goes for the cargo bay volume

[hollow grail]

it really goes by the amount you input in its RigidBody2D specs

and the mass of the excavator

[hollow grail]

disgostang

[vagrant topaz]

big FATTY!!!

[severe adder]

It's... majestic

Is the cargo bay scaled down?

Btw, did how did you create a sprite and other .pngs for this one? Using blender, or?

[hollow grail]

these are all cut from the raw game files

no blender at all

also it's full size

[severe adder]

With photoshop or alike?

Would be epic if you used MC Paint or smth

[severe adder]

Huh, Thought it was bigger

[hollow grail]

no photo editing

i'm just using godot's default texture region tools

[severe adder]

I am yet to dive into learning the game engine

I have no experience with Godot or gamedev, apart from creating the Hamster Combat button (which took a while and a help of the AI slave master) (never thought there exists a chatGPT -version for helping with godot)

Currently trying to bake pngs, next step - trying to understand how ships work in the editor

[hollow grail]

yea so i can give u a basic rundown
essentially ships consist of a bunch of nodes smashed together. oftentimes, stuff that's common is instanced in the form of templates

tscn i think literally means template scene

[severe adder]

Also, before I modified dV, I made a cute little game for my GF where you, as a cat, need to dodge a roomba and collect sweets (latter is not yet implemented, release is TBA)

Just to get a hang of GODOT

[severe adder]

Oh please do

[hollow grail]

so ships have a bunch of common parts
namely AI nodes, weapon slots, thruster slots, reactors, reaction wheels, and cabin lights

these are all inherited from different scenes

the game loads the ship scenes through Shipyard.gd and pops them in as needed

any ship u add has to first be loaded in that script

check my mod's Shipyard.gd for how i do it

then you need to add them to the ship pool in CurrentGame.gd

[severe adder]

Thank you! Do you think it would make sense to re-write the rundown to the modding help channel? Might help others

[hollow grail]

oh ya sure

it'll help with the modding page on the wiki too i think

haven't crystallised the ideas

[hollow grail]

so fun news

the OCP TNTRL is feature-complete

it looks fucking ridiculous

[crude steppe]

And that's why only the player pilots the OCP in rings, everyone else doesn't have a cargo bay 💀

[hollow grail]

ahaha

[hollow grail]

so the ra ocp is basically feature complete, i'm just adding cargo bay accessories

hopefully i can get some sleep and also not have my gpu break

fixes in the backlog
fix the Pigeon's display name, no idea why it appears as a Pelican (probably just forgot to change its name)
umm

thats it i think
also monocargo containers in right mounts were using the wrong side

fixed that

any outstanding issues let me know

[hollow grail]

we have been blessed with a miracle

the computer is working for a second day

[hollow grail]

barely

[hollow grail]

and i just fixed a crew count issue with the new expansion modules

frankly, i haven't a fucking clue how i managed to do this perfectly without causing the game to crash

perfect storm i guess

basically what was happening was that crew would be 'removed' from a ship, despite having a valid number of slots to contain them, since i was just modifying the crew count variable after it had loaded the ship and CurrentGame.gd had done its thing

so! instead, i deferred to a config value, crewCount, to get the number of people in a ship and set it accordingly

it does mean that crew count updates are called awkwardly and you can get more crew than the vessel can hold if you equip and unequip crew adders, but it works for now

and it'll destabilise the moment you equip another thing

fixed it

just called validateEmployment on ship ready

https://tenor.com/view/good-think-thinking-smart-wise-gif-10074958

[hollow grail]

nearly ready for release!

@crude steppe pushing initial 1.7.0

i'd like to add some crew upgrades now that the system is honed in

also i'm rebalancing the conlido bunk

[crude steppe]

Got it, now it's your turn. Pull request is up.

[hollow grail]

very nise

also heads-up, i changed the bunkx1 to a single bed, i'm adding two new expanders and planning for comfort improvements
just check the next commit i guess lol

partial rewrite too in bunkx1

best to save edits til later

[hollow grail]

good news, GPU is on the way

oh rx 580, i'll put you to rest soon

i should give it a honourary name

[rare hill]

Another bucket

[hollow grail]

is that the suggestion for the name? lol

[rare hill]

Yie

[hollow grail]

i was thinking something eastern european

[rare hill]

Chetzemoka

Blini

[hollow grail]

i like blini

life of the party

i like the idea of a ukrainian food name tho, pay a little tribute

pampushky

or pampushka

basically ukrainian donuts

and i think it's a nice, if remote tribute to the city of Lviv

[hollow grail]

@crude steppe ready to push release

some strings in the last few commits

[crude steppe]

Push it, I'll translate later. I won't have power for another 3 hours and I plan to sleep.

[hollow grail]

no prob! hopefully power gets restored soon

i'm just working out the changelog

very long changelogs recently

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.7.0

ok i'm very tired so bedtime

have fun! do let me know if there's any issues

[crude steppe]

The OK720 hardpoint specs are inaccurate.
Installing haul drones on rear hardpoints of K720 crashes game.

[hollow grail]

lovely. i do think ive tracked down the rootcause though

it must be down to the way the nodes' placeholder configuration works

[hollow grail]

the problem with the current back slots is that they use editable children, which trips an error since it's essentially accessing invalid resources at that position
i think

for some reason this happens only in double inheritance

fixed it

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.7.1

bastard issue

i was working at that for three days before and it just clicked now

i've also noticed that a last-minute adjustment means that the beak doesn't open wide enough

[hollow grail]

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.7.2

i need more ideas for not-ships

i had fun making those but i want to know what people would like to see

[vagrant topaz]

#VeryBigGrinderShipVariants

oh wait, thats ships, fuck

hmmmm

[plush topaz]

I'm thinking about some low-end RCS stuff, like little Timmy's first gimbals, not exactly efficient but it's there

[vagrant topaz]

what about, a ship that is super large to the point it can eat medium to big asteroids and then be able to grind them apart internally -> going into the smelter (stomake bellow)

[plush topaz]

I'm pretty sure that's just an OCP

[hollow grail]

i'm not making new ships for a while

im burnt out on them

[hollow grail]

i like that idea

more low end hardware

[hollow grail]

maybe like some NTRs?

[plush topaz]

that could work yeah and with the amount of ways to break down ore, getting more remass for 'em isn't really an issue

[hollow grail]

kewl

what would be fun i think is making a thruster that uses driver ammo as its propulsion source
like, metal fire style

with a supercrit oxygen oxidiser

[plush topaz]

ooh, now that would be interesting

[hollow grail]

ofc idk the chem of it (yet) but i like the idea of a pure NTR gimbal that's basically a downscaled PNTR

the PNTRs have 90 degrees of thrust vectoring

[plush topaz]

neat

[crude steppe]

Gimbaled with vectored thrust? Wow.

There also was this post by Liqvo about thrusters
#1107018647739846827 message

[hollow grail]

aerojeeets... those are cool

[severe adder]

So, consider:

An oversized THICC that is connected by an ARM instead of a cradle

A THICC with it's thrusters and electronics stripped away for more processed cargo space, also does not need a cradle and interfaces with the ship's processed cargo space directly (essentially strapped to the ship qith no option of removal mid dive (or with the option, in case u need to run)(also might be funny if you accidentally power it off and lose like 90t of beryllium))

[plush topaz]

pfffft

wouldn't that make it into a big space shotgun? unless it just becomes a mini black hole for like a microsecond

[severe adder]

Could you explain what you mean please?

[plush topaz]

about the 90t of beryllium disappearing by accidentally powering down that oversized thicc

[severe adder]

Ah, got it

I actually meant simply detaching the integrated thicc mid-dive, as in my mind it would require very precise maneuvering to attach it back without a cradle arm

So no matter disappearing here, space-time is safe

Powering the slot off would detach the container

Actually,

on the regard of the big thicc - it could have an integrated short-duration astrogation beacon

say you encounter a salvage

You now have an option to detach the big thicc and grab the salvage instead

trade some of your processed cargo to later retrieve it on the same spot

Or not retrieve

[plush topaz]

that would be neat

[hollow grail]

ive been thinking about a jumbo container

[severe adder]

Another funky idea:

Say you have found a big ringroid full of beryllium

Mining it is a gamble as beryllium can fly in all directions - loss of time or profit and much sadness

What if we attach an engine with some thrusters to it instead so it could astrogate back to Enceladus on its own?

Like a small phage-lookin fella that would attach itself to the nearest big roid after undocking from the ship

Or this module could have a stick with which we have to impale the roid and then deactivate the slot so it will attach itself and fly away

A laser PD might be desirable as well..

[hollow grail]

long

[plush topaz]

THICC

[severe adder]

Truly

[severe adder]

By the way, @hollow grail how did you manage to create such elegant colliders for the ships? (Please don't tell me you did it manually)

I was lazy with manually setting the vectors up, so I used a vector editor to create a simplified shape of half my ship, mirrored it, rasterized it and used sprite to collisionvector in godot 🗿

[hollow grail]

full manual baby

[rare hill]

Can you add some really stupidly fast gun that uses maybe 0,5 kg of ammo per shot and has a rps of about 5 and 10?

[dusk bay]

Why not a gun that uses 0.69kg per shell, and can fire at 65RPS

[atomic hatch]

no! no NTR! bad space dot exe! bad!

[glossy bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-funny-funny-funny-face-confused-gif-26190760

[hollow grail]

the interesting thing about PDTs is that they're literally just weapons on a gimbal

it's very clever implementation

they forego making a custom weapon and just have the one

i wrote down the PNTRm description so i'l be working on it today

[dusk bay]

Can we maybe get GAU8 on a swivel?

I've always wanted a GUA8 on a swivel.

I want to BRRRRRTTT in every direction.

Hell, the recoil should be enough to use it for thrust

OOOOOHHHH, idea for a high strength mount, an omni directional torch

Like those thruster pods that tugboats use

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Azimuth_thruster

[hollow grail]

i should probably clarify the scope of IoE
it's pretty broad but i'm mainly sticking to mining equipment and quality of life stuff, expanding existing selections and branching out into others when i think it'd be fun

[dusk bay]

Oh I know, I'm just being a goober

[tropic egret]

A highly tuned thruster used for mining

Essentially a flamethrower that'll sit on a high stress slot or something

Uses propellant as ammo

[severe adder]

I think there is one in the game already

I loved using it on a nimble ship, but it wears out pretty quickly

[tropic egret]

Is that the NANI?

I was thinking more of a precision mining thruster

I haven't played in a bit and space has added so much since then, lol

[severe adder]

No tis this one:
https://delta-v.kodera.pl/index.php/EINAT_Kzinti_Lesson_Mk_II

[tropic egret]

Ah

Yeah, I guess that covers it

[shy zodiac]

Space you need to add a shotgun like weapon not like a air burst but wall of metal

That would be cool

[dusk bay]

I could actually see that being useful for mining

[sick hull]

just tap the testudo once

[shy zodiac]

Then my iron storage is empty plus the testudo uses a stupid amount of power and has a ton of recoil

[rare hill]

Gau8 shotgun

The miners need it

[sick hull]

Personally Ive never had that problem and to have less recoil then the testudo thrust down (doesn't decrease ammo usage, just decreases speed that ammo has when it leaves the barrel)

[hollow grail]

im not going to do weapons or stuff thats used explicitly as weaponry

i been taking a break

[sick hull]

I wish I could go to the top of threads but it isn't possible afaik

[atomic hatch]

search in:workshop from:(the thread OP) sort by oldest

#1242427385417039943 message

[dusk bay]

Honestly, you deserve it after that absurd burst of updates you made space

Like, seriosuly, that was incredible, only othe time I've seen somthing similar is when egosoft releases a new game

[sick hull]

I thought it was Ubisoft

[atomic hatch]

egosoft, different company, its german, theyve got like 20people and make the X# series of games, (X3: terran conflict X4: foundations)

[sick hull]

Oooh

[dusk bay]

And when they release a new X game, they tend to release like daily major patches

It's incredible to watch one of their releases, they normally release things more broken than bethesda, but they fix it and add content so quickly I'll ALWAYS pre-order from them

They also listen to their community, they support modders (So much so that they tend to hire modders temporarily to help improve the game)

They're just a really good developer

[shy zodiac]

The ammo is the main thing but I forgot about the thrust tuning but it would be cool to have a weapon with a single shot large spread

[hollow grail]

so been away a while

what's folks' thoughts
what are we missing, what might be improved

clarifying again that IoE isn't about weapons and isn't all about making ships

[graceful oasis]

something that I feel could be a somewhat balanced QoL feature is pirates occasionally trading mono containers instead of standard ones

could be much more of a gamble than the normal containers traded, like you could just as easily find one with 80t of beryllium as much as you could find one with 4t of iron, which I guess would balance it out

[hollow grail]

that's a neat idea

i haven't really looked at the code regarding that sorta thing

[graceful oasis]

lol fair enough

I'm big on pirate trading (it's my main money maker), so I would love something that makes it more immersive

[teal cave]

Deployable 'pods' that have their own drone tug system that guide ore to you. They give you a bit bigger radius around you since they would kind of 'orbit'? Or maybe have them in a formation so they are better to catch ore from exploding mining

[graceful oasis]

that's a cool idea, plus eliminates as much of the need to chase after rocks as I bet you could send them instead and be more reliable too

[rare hill]

is it possible to implement something like a rope? akin to an arm but lets you drag heavy stuff like a ship or something? it doesn't have to position it like an arm does, just drag and you have to deal with the inertia

[hollow grail]

it's possible in the same way that rolling a boulder up a hill is possible

i mean i joke but i'd have to completely reimplement arms, yknow

the way they work is like this

• arm detects something to attach to in an area
• arm tries to couple the ship to the object
• as the ship moves, arm will try to hold the object in a certain position and angle the sprites to match where the object is with some funky math

it isn't a physics object as much as it is a coupling
it's a very good implementation

[rare hill]

damn

[bleak ibex]

Idea - cargo bay upgrade (in parallel to an MPU) that selectively dumps nuggets out of your ship that do not match the filter. Useful for OCP!

warp the nugget out of the ship

not sure a mod can do this / perhaps it's a wacky idea

it just seemed like a cool exaust port other than the HMX (iron shooting weapon)

[graceful oasis]

perhaps an easier application would be that the MPU gets a filter similar to everything else, any ore not selected just gets dumped outside of the ship like how it does when you try to over process ore. makes iron really good for just remass

[twilit elm]

slight problem in the K720

Instead of

press charges**,"** both Antonoff
I think it's more correct to say
press charges**",** both Antonoff

(switch the , and ")

[hollow grail]

whee backflip

ive been doing other stuff like playing astroneer so sorey no update recently... maybe soon ? who knows

still thinking about scooper drones with dronez+

[rare hill]

And shotguns

And Gau

[shy zodiac]

Astroneer player discovered

[hollow grail]

what up

[twilit elm]

your main base is on serpulo?

mine is on

uh

the tundra planet

[hollow grail]

i like sylva

wish it rained

they used to have storms. i liked storms

[dusk bay]

I haven't played that in years

[teal cave]

dronez+ ?

[hollow grail]

scoops with tug drones

[teal cave]

Cool

[ocean compass]

the deep dish OCP is probably a bit uh
overpowered
its the 4 docking bays that does it

[sick hull]

Same with the pirhans

Pihrana

[peak parcel]

oh i've been meaning to try the deep dish OCP

tried piranha but it wasn't really doing it for me

with the mod what ship would you guys say is best (and maybe how to equip it)?

[severe adder]

comes down to your preference really, but I've quite enjoyed the huj ass frigate

[peak parcel]

that's my goal but i'm broke, only got 12 mil

[hollow grail]

absolutely depends on the use case, but... the stubby is probably the best heavy generalist imo

[hollow grail]

yeah LOL
tbh i don't really think toooo much about balance. both OCP variants (and i think the base? i can't remember, it should have bays though) are kinda just as they are because i thought it'd be fun

[rare hill]

I had an issue with the cerf last night, everytime I tried manouvering it would enter a spin of doom, I got tired of it and sold it lol

[hollow grail]

curious

[peak parcel]

hmm could it be that one of the thrusters was damaged?

i've been using the cerf for a while and been loving it

...just wish it could eat rocks whole but i think i'd need an OCP deep dish for that

[hollow grail]

it can manage small rocks but since it's a sliding hatch door it'd struggle with big ones

[hollow hawk]

hey, is it intended that the harvester haul drones dont seem to feed you stuff?

nvmd i see what I did wrong

accidentally set minimum range rather then proxy buffer -.-

I adjusted that and would you look at that, they work perfectly fine lol

[hollow hawk]

We are in love with both the harvester drones and the dyna-cargo containers

[hollow grail]

power set, truly

[ocean compass]

yeah the dyna cargos are goooood

[south moss]

how do I install this mod?

do I need to make a mod folder for it? haven't installed any mods in this game yet

[graceful oasis]

you make a folder in the game directory named 'mods', and put the zip in there. after that you put the parameter --enable-mods in the launch options

[hollow grail]

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus?tab=readme-ov-file#installation-steam

[south moss]

Ty

[rare hill]

I thought so but I reloaded a couple times and as I tried to come to an stop it went crazy, what thrusters and main engines are you guys using ? Maybe my builds are too heavy and the thrusters are not enough

And I end up damaging them before I can really maneuver it

[peak parcel]

uh i'll have a look

i think i run blasters and the 18km/s exhaust velocity gimballed main

[rare hill]

Found another issue, the game crashes when using the equipment tab and in the drone section with the pigeon, don't know if it happens with other ships

It happened twice

[hollow grail]

i thought i fixed that 💀

i also really don't want to do anything right now, sorry

[south moss]

What are the different arms for?

[sick hull]

different streghts

[hollow grail]

the KRB is a funny diddly that doesnt have very much grasping power at all. the ORD is a powerfuck that will let you dash pirates righteously against deorbiting moonlets

both have their own niches

also man. i feel bad for not updating in a while but i just havent had my head in the game lately

[bleak ibex]

Don't let it turn into a burden. Even if you pause for a while that's always ok

[rare hill]

Been using the expensive drones, they're nice

[neon spear]

Harvester drones go hard

[ocean compass]

the RA DMW turret lists its effective range as 2km
i am assuming this is in error

[neon spear]

wtf is the OK720

this is a fucking crime

[severe adder]

installed this epic mod once again to tinker with ships, found that game crashes after installing harvester drones on the right (or was it left?) back lostress slot on OK720

Very unfortunate, Church of the OCP inquisition cannot be commenced

[hollow grail]

yeah the harvester drones are being annoying... guh

need to get in there and see what's up bc it's just triggering crashes

idk what could be up with it

[hollow grail]

targeting range is shorter than effective! i think i just kind of guesstimated effective range since it's a tighter and more powerful beam

[hollow grail]

ask Sin Space Engineering

[crude steppe]

Are you sure? The RW cannon, for example, has an 800m range listed, so I think it's a mistake. Funny thing is that it's corrected in the translation (can't even remember changing it).

[ocean compass]

also the stat is listed as 2000m
whereas on the PD railgun its 2,000m

[hollow grail]

oh yeah it's probably a mistake then lol

i probably copied over

[sick hull]

What happens if you click the blame button can you blame the code for your woes

[ocean compass]

you may need to make the cargo bay walls on the frigate a bit thicker
ive been noticing stuff clipping through fairly consistently

[plush topaz]

do you have the "more minerals mod" installed as well by any chance?

[tropic egret]

Oh no, it returns

[plush topaz]

snrks

[peak parcel]

it definitely gets worse as you carry more and start getting the framedrops too

[ocean compass]

also honestly
i think the frigate could use a smaller cargo bay
its funny with it being so big but its just pointless

youre never gonna be able to even come close to filling it

its a nerf on paper but if you do it right its more of a buff
if you do it right it might reduce how difficult it is to maneuver with a bunch of stuff in the bay

[peak parcel]

speak for yourself, i often do

[ocean compass]

how???

[peak parcel]

i just mine for longer i guess?

maybe its the filters on my drone systems

[ocean compass]

yeah the minimum for my drones is 10k/chunk

i can probably drop that to 8k tbh

[south moss]

Yea around 8k and 7k is the sweet spot when I filter feed with drones

[peak parcel]

i run a 3k on one and 9k on another

my tactic is to shovel as much ore into my face as possible and it works cause i have quick dives that make like 4mil

[neon spear]

We run 2k on two drone systems lmao

Titan tho, not Tsuki

[trail karma]

So, i'm not sure why this is happening, but my MPI railgun is hitting myself, now that i've installed this mod

[atomic hatch]

i can do nothing to fix this, but some useful info to have would be what slot on what ship

[cobalt lagoon]

Could you add an indicator light for the cargo bay doors on the Tsukuyomi? This is twice now that I've lost 500k$ because I forgot to close the cargo bay doors during a turn.

[neon spear]

why are these two so far apart in cost

theyre both in perfect condition???#

[cobalt lagoon]

is the gear the same? i have pin thrusters on mine and it bumped up the value by like 20 mil

[neon spear]

Yep, same damn ship

I can check tomorrow if there's like a difference in how broken it is

But for now, I have my CERF and would like to go to bed

[atomic hatch]

its likely something like 1 has a bunch of drones and PD turrets, high cost thrusters/RCS and a full functional reactor, and all the other bells and whistles, and the other is pretty bare bones with a shagged reactor and cheap RCS/thrusters

[idle tendon]

where is thee lastest zip

[random cypress]

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases

[idle tendon]

now to try to doo the thing in the start up

[idle tendon]

like this right

[random cypress]

looks right

[idle tendon]

ill try it

i think its working

thanks

when can i get that giant ship

you know that

one prison ship kind of thing

[random cypress]

iirc it just shows up in the dealership randomly, very expensive though

[idle tendon]

ok

ill save money

i want to fly that thing

anny way to cheat engine

[random cypress]

you can, it will mark your save as cheated though

[idle tendon]

ok

its not like its multiplayer

[idle tendon]

not like is its multiplayer

[graceful oasis]

it does lock out of achievements and stats while cheetah is detected

[crude steppe]

Same thing when any mod is active

[random cypress]

right, but it prevents those things after mods are disabled as well, if you wanted to try to go back to vanilla.

[graceful oasis]

weird, cause for me it worked after disabling mods

[random cypress]

after using cheat engine?

the cheater check and the mod check are two different things

[graceful oasis]

oh I thought you meant with mods. I've never used cheat engine

that's understandable though

I always assumed that the cheetah tag was when using anything to gain an advantage, not just cheat engine

[random cypress]

I don't recall exactly how it works, but I believe it just detects if any values (e.g. money) have been changed externally. This then sets the cheater flag on the save, which prevents achievements and stats on that save permanently.

Mods are technically part of the game and it's not feasibleto determine whether a mod is 'fair' or not, so it just disables all achievements/stats while they are enabled, and re-enables them after they're removed.

[graceful oasis]

makes sense, guess that's what the checksum does for it then

[ocean compass]

ive found that the crew almost never mentions a derelict while in the frigate

i would call that in range, no?

[neon spear]

This actually raises an interesting question for @coarse abyss , where is the derelict range detected from?

I've noticed it's reasonably hard to get derelict calls in the Titan as well, you need to get uncomfortably close.

Where does it measure from? Is it from the center of the ship? The habitat?

Intuitively I want to say the Habitat but idk if Koder did in fact think that far.

[coarse abyss]

I think I need that question rephrased. Or I'm missing crucial context.

(or just tired, that can be an valid option too)

[neon spear]

from what location on the player ship is a derelict's range measured for the crew to open the conversation about salvaging it

[coarse abyss]

ah
CoM

as in, (0,0) of the ship, it's centre of mass

[worldly copper]

i assume this is from this mod, what are the things with conversion for?

[atomic hatch]

divided is the normal "i have 8000kg of processed resource storage for each resource" dynamic is "i have 30000kg of processed resource storage total"

[peak parcel]

basically dynamic is better

[atomic hatch]

no, its different

[ocean compass]

the EIME HUD incorrectly displays the Tsuku's cargo bay

which is unfortunate
this is the one time i would use the EIME hud
to see the cargo bay

[glossy bloom]

That's normal, it only really works on the EIME in the vanilla game too

[peak parcel]

i kinda wonder how hard custom huds would be to mod, i assume very though

just cause i havent found anything im perfectly happy with for the big silver brick yet

[gleaming fulcrum]

So you know when you have the microsiesmic drone, you can get the specific composition of an asteroid? How can you get the drone to tell you what it is, without having to click on the asteroid

cuz when you actually click on it, which is thje only way i have been able to get the remote scanner to display the composition, it tries to align the ship with the roid

[graceful oasis]

you can hover your mouse over the object, but it can be less precise than selecting the object

[gleaming fulcrum]

Like I saw in a video somewhere, where he is just mousing over the asteroids and it is displaying thier comp in a little box around the roid

[graceful oasis]

not really much else to it, the scanner will show you whatever is beneath the cursor, unless your AP is locked onto something

[gleaming fulcrum]

Hrm, it might be showing whats in the specific roid i am hovering over, kinda hard to tell

I thought it would be like a hold this key and mouse over the roid thing

Maybe it appearing on screen in a box over the roid itself is a kitsune specific hud thing?

[graceful oasis]

the box hovering over the scanned object is kitsune/EIME hud specific

every other mining hud has a box to the side

[gleaming fulcrum]

might have to try out the EIME, cuz the kitsune is just.... garish is the word?

[graceful oasis]

that's a fitting description

the EIME is decently close to the vulture, albeit with a more balanced thruster and weight distribution and a reactor that is overpowered but also overpriced as hell

[gleaming fulcrum]

I was meaning the hud itself, but also the EIME ship too I guess

Is that the Elon? the model E or whatnot

[graceful oasis]

yea

[graceful oasis]

yeah it totally flew over my head for some reason

[ocean compass]

i dont really get what people dont like about the kitsune hud

[graceful oasis]

it's got basically no clutter, second to the racing hud but with information suited to mining

only thing it really misses is the lack of a depth metre, but everything essential is there

[ocean compass]

eh a depth metre isnt that useful

[ocean compass]

the RMS PIN-M200 drives are probably a bit overpowered

good thrust, good fuel eco, they barely wear at all, even at max tuning

plus gimbal
the only downside is the power requirement but its not even that bad

honestly the wear might just be a bug given how long its been since ive needed to repair them

and im not exactly too careful about collisions

preprocessors are also quite..... powerful
especially the high end one
getting a ND MPU to 98% ore eff is a bit silly

[gleaming fulcrum]

a non modded one makes it that high?>

[ocean compass]

using a modded equipment item yes

[gleaming fulcrum]

Oh ok, was going to say I saw one that made it to 90, but it doesnt do remassing

[rotund flint]

I have a request if it's something that can be incorporated into this mod: Manipulator Arm points function as docking grapple points. Don't know if it's even possible or if the grapple spot is fixed on center of gravity or center of ship, but it'd make bigger things able to dock up 🙂

[ocean compass]

its a mass limit from what ive heard
1 kiloton
(1000 tons)

and unless you spend a super large amount (im assuming youre talking about frigate) you wont be getting under a kiloton

also clearly the frigate needs another set of thrusters seeing as we can use the stationkeeping thrusters for it as RCS on other ships (im totally not joking)

[rotund flint]

I think it's more RCS on the Frigate is main engines on other ships, and there's just an array of the same engines on the bootay

Which cargo bay are you rocking, btw? I'm almost thinking it's only worthwhile to use the big one since you can't easily shake/maneuver for re-feeding your MPU or whatever

[ocean compass]

yes
the RCS on the frigate is in fact main engines
and so are the main engines....

i run the Nakamura MPU

with the preprocessor

i'll just get a screenshot of my current frigate setup

[rotund flint]

I just feel that I overwhelm them, else I'm just not picky enough with what I am grabbing.

[ocean compass]

the preprocessor is just overpowered

i used to run the RA MPU Mk 2

[rotund flint]

Yeah, see I still find I have to jitter too much to get cargo down the neck with either the Naka or the Mk2

[ocean compass]

i dont really notice it that much

or at all

[rotund flint]

hrm.

[ocean compass]

you really do not need the 500t propellant tank with those thrusters

[rotund flint]

tbh I can probably downsize the propellant tanks, I haven't run into issues with it yet. I just downgraded the MPU to the RA, as the wider neck is worth the reduced output

lol you said that just as I was typing.

[ocean compass]

you get plenty enough dV with the 80t tank

oh are you running the dual laminar turbine?

the military turbine provides more power

[rotund flint]

yeah. I had like 143 mil I had saved up before I found this mod.

[ocean compass]

the laminar turbine is just lighter

[rotund flint]

I'm actually not having power issues, so I can afford lighter

[ocean compass]

fair enough
i'm guessing you've max tuned the thrusters?

[rotund flint]

actually no, and I have things really slow so I don't lose ore since it's jaws are weak as hell.

[ocean compass]

theres no reason not to max tune em

[rotund flint]

like 7deg rotation on AP lol so I'm not throwing stuff all over.

[ocean compass]

i havent run into too many issues with that
only when my keyboard stops working properly

i also tend to fly stick

[rotund flint]

lol...

I have... issues at times. I get enough stuff onboard that I start having simulation lag.

like bad.

[ocean compass]

also i put on the fusion drives to massively cut down transit reserve

we have pretty fundamentally different methodologies for our mining
i can see that purely from our different loadouts

i tend to just eat entire roids

[rotund flint]

Yeah, I fly at about a 45 to my actual direction of flight and let the microwaves handle everything. I never ended up having good results just eating raw asteroids

then my drones end up picking up all the pieces.

[ocean compass]

putting a PD rail in the high stress is
not what i would've done
the arm is super useful

[rotund flint]

It lets me engage things manually as needed if I come across a big rock and need some extra love breaking it down

[ocean compass]

fair enough
hows the fabricator?
is it significantly faster than the vanilla one?

[rotund flint]

from what the specs said, it's just a vanilla one they jammed in the corner of the cargo bay

[ocean compass]

you have the one that isnt that

yeah given the power draw and such one would hope its quite a bit faster

anyway how did you get so much money?
just selling ammo n stuff to GA?

[rotund flint]

ammo, recovering wrecks. I've been playing since back when the elon ship was the fanciest.

same save lol

mining. Once I found the 6 bay miner, that was the moneymaker because I'd go out and sell to the obontos

launch to one, check what they want.. if it's platinum, it's like 3/4 mil a monopod and I had 4 of em lol

[ocean compass]

average titan

[rotund flint]

I would do 4x pods, 3x drones and a PD rail

[ocean compass]

i dont really vibe with the titan

[rotund flint]

It's neat. I'd capture stuff on the sides too if it was small enough. Also do trade runs for GA

[ocean compass]

i'd rather fly an eagle tbh

[rotund flint]

🙂

Whatever floats your boat, I flew one for the longest time myself. Nothing wrong with it.

[ocean compass]

man i really need to make more money
what im doing really isnt cutting it

[rotund flint]

What's your net per run right now?

w/ the frig

[ocean compass]

heres one of the better ones

[graceful oasis]

looks to me like a titan or OCP run with the output (although it's mixed ores so def a lot more space used with that)

[ocean compass]

heres all the screenshots of frigate results i can find

.... damnit thats a good name

i got it

pure ice was also a good name but

gonna try out a different loadout for my frigate

[rotund flint]

yeah, doing things the way I do it, I'm already at a quarter mil estimated... downgrading to the bigger throat on the mpu was the move.

[ocean compass]

im at over 400k (havent tried the diff loadout yet)

but thats because of the preprocessor
with it the nakamura mpu has 98% ore eff

[ocean compass]

ohhh thats nifty
this has gimbal for the thruster mounts

[ocean compass]

the RCS version is also just an objective upgrade over the EI AGILE

[idle tendon]

can you make ships

then i have an idea

you take the door from this ship

put it on the frigate

more hard points

and call it the frigate mining refit

[obtuse galleon]

hello,
I installed the mod but the only new part is the THI Harvester-class Haul Drones, did I miss something?

[idle tendon]

did you doo the thingy with the startup

anny ways what i was saying

[obtuse galleon]

--enable-mods? yes

[idle tendon]

yes

debug and other stuff

[obtuse galleon]

--debug-console?

[idle tendon]

if you want to see new ships launch and refresh the dealer

[obtuse galleon]

the order is not a issue?

[obtuse galleon]

and what about components?

[idle tendon]

i dont know it worked for me

[graceful oasis]

debug console isn't needed, especially for most people, but can be nice to have if you know what it does

[idle tendon]

i dont know what it doo

im not a mod dev

[graceful oasis]

it doesn't do anything for mods

it basically gives you the option to toggle viewing the logs in realtime, which most people won't need

[idle tendon]

i dont even know how to see logs

[graceful oasis]

" ` "

[idle tendon]

is that that numbers stuff

[graceful oasis]

it's a key to the left of the number row, at least on US and UK keyboards

[graceful oasis]

to get back to this, did you check other equipment points by any chance at all?

[obtuse galleon]

yup, on K225, KR37 and E

[graceful oasis]

hm, very bizarre

do you mind sharing screenshots at all, as i'm pulling a blank here?

[obtuse galleon]

creating a new save does nothing

[obtuse galleon]

imagine: no new ships at the dealer, no new equipment (except harvester), no new equipment category

[graceful oasis]

hm, guess it's best to pass this along to @hollow grail and do the same thing you'd do to report a bug but put the data in here instead

[hollow grail]

is this the only mod you have installed? have you made sure to set --enable-mods in your launch options?

[obtuse galleon]

yes, yes

[hollow grail]

does the mod exist in the mods/ subdirectory of the game folder as a zip?

[obtuse galleon]

yes

[hollow grail]

and it's in there as a zip, you didn't decompress it?

[obtuse galleon]

not decompressed zip file

[hollow grail]

ahhh

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.7.2

try downloading the release from here - the first link

you might have downloaded the entire repo by mistake aha
github is weird with actually releasing software

[obtuse galleon]

I might have clicked the wrong button lol

[hollow grail]

yeahhh no worries

[obtuse galleon]

weirdly the download was faster
I seems to work correctly now, thanks

[hollow grail]

fantastic

yea git is great for developers but the moment it comes to actually distributing functioning software it can be downright esoteric

[obtuse galleon]

you got a new question to add to your routine user assistance

[hollow grail]

ahaha

[crude steppe]

Is it weird? You downloaded only latest release, previously you downloaded every version

[hollow grail]

"does the zip have -main on it"

[obtuse galleon]

458 Mo for the main, 13 Mo for the release

[hollow grail]

yeah you'll notice the repo has a releases directory where i keep a cache of old ones

i don't like losing stuff when i could look back and see what i can do with the new, yknow

that being said i should work on this again lol
probably been a few updates since that i need to adjust to

any new equipment?

i mean, everything should work fine but i know there's weird issues with the custom ships and the drone bays that need some looking

[crude steppe]

I think you worked on some thrusters, remember translating wip stuff

[obtuse galleon]

habitats kits not having mass is a bit strange

[hollow grail]

yeah, i'm sure i can work on that

[obtuse galleon]

anyways thanks for the mod

[hollow grail]

no prob :]

[peak parcel]

oh how i long to fit my tsukoyomi with the engines it deserves, alas i cannot have them :(

its a good ship it deserves its stock main drives back as a treat

[south moss]

using a k225 bbw, mild combat and mining with a railgun that I plan to be able to restock with a voyager or the other model, is it worth having an ore preprocessor to suck up water for remass or should I just slap the voyager fab plant in the cargo bay and use a different mpu?

actually replacing the thi bulker with a voyager makes sense, and I can keep using a preprocessor when I have the main mpu off while I collect rocks to fill the bay

but since that's expensive I'll just settle for more ammo

[signal lantern]

Taking a look at this for the first time. Pretty wild everything that's been done here. Nice work.

Spent a while cruising the Tsukiyomi around with four mike cannons, and a butt-ton of drones, with the fabricator strapped on just for fun. Accidentally equiped the NSWR drive as an RCS the first run out. Good times.

[ocean compass]

do preprocessors affect the tobernite?

[hollow grail]

they do not!

[ocean compass]

hmm.
fair enough

[hollow grail]

thank you!!! as one might be able to tell from my extended pause it took a lot outta me... but i'll come back with fiyah eventually

[rare hill]

Can't wait for the mining Gau-8 lol

[crude steppe]

Uhh Tetsuo hmx?

[ocean compass]

the PIN engines/RCS dont seem to be visually rendering on the EIME

as seen here

additionally the M200s definitely need a nerf
the fuel consumption is ridiculously low

they are kind of just
the best main drives

the RCS are also basically a straight upgrade over the AGILEs

i would probably increase the mass of the RCS to ~250kg per

[peak parcel]

dont forget the extreme power consumption and cost

[main briar]

Something I noticed when I loaded this into my run,that I forgot to backup and there fore got corrupted when I pulled the mod out:(, the Cargo bay that is supposed to take ores and make ammo/drones doesn't do that anymore. Or if it does it waits a horribly long time to start. Test ran with about 500ish kg of Vanadium platinum and a 100 or so iron and didn't make any ammo or drones. This was done on the most recent version of the mod and game. Just bought the game yesterday and got stupid lucky on getting me a busted up Titan, sad times save is borked.

[main briar]

ok, so now that i removed a few mods that didnt pan out for me, it seems it was a conflict

[ocean compass]

the fabricator needs more iron than platinum/vanadium
also you really shouldnt have tried removing this mod
it was never gonna work

[main briar]

ok so i got the mod back in and i STILL cant get it to make drones/ammo,got the RSLS Fab plant, Nakamura Big MT sitting on little over 26thousand KG of iron and 2600kg Vanadium and it still aint doing drones. Drones ARE Vanadium right? or are they platinum?

[ocean compass]

drones are plat
4:1 iron to platinum

[main briar]

ok, but why wont it use the iron? do i still need the plat?

[ocean compass]

you need both to make the drones

[main briar]

ok, interesting change, guess it makes sense though

[ocean compass]

its
not changed

[main briar]

really? oh hmm i must have just never noticed then, course this is only my second day playing soooo

[main briar]

does this play well with the More Minerals mod?

[graceful oasis]

should work ok, i've never tried the two but afaik they don't have conflicting code

[main briar]

all i know is I am getting tired of asteroids saying they have iron just to crack them and lo and brhold... no iron

[graceful oasis]

how deep are you going btw, as depth and relative densities may not yield the ore you're looking for?

[main briar]

current depth is about 150km

scanner will show a roid with about idk 7m^3 of iron, but when i crack the roid, none drops from it

not always mind, but often

[graceful oasis]

how does the iron density compare to other minerals, as that may account for it?

im also assuming you're using the microseismic recon, and it can be a little inaccurate too, so that might have to be taken into account too

[main briar]

well not as plentiful, maybe 2-3 in 10 will say they have iron

[graceful oasis]

yeah that sounds like it might just be that you're in a vein richer in other minerals, perhaps fly around a bit as having some of a mineral does indicate that neighboring veins will have more

[signal lantern]

I think there are a number of things in IoE that seem to be just "here's the most awesomest stuff, have fun."

Like, there are tugs and hauls that seem to both be just better.

[atomic hatch]

the scanner is just a vague approximation of chances of output, not an actual representation of whats "in the roid", this mod wont stop the ore scanner from lying, because thats just how it works

[main briar]

soo i just tried to join Vilcy using the Frig, cant dock... lol

anyone got any ideas to fix this?

[ocean compass]

this isnt a mod issue

[graceful oasis]

yeah the arm grabs the centre of mass of the ship, which can be an issue if the ship is too big to reach

[signal lantern]

I mean, fly a smaller ship? There's no way around having a ship radius longer than the ARM's reach. Expect you'll have the same problem at the Obonto stations, too.

[ocean compass]

you can dock the frigate just fine at ganymede
assuming a total ship mass under a kiloton

[peak parcel]

in my experience no

it breaks the ore hitboxes so it just clips out of the bay super easy

[alpine elk]

quick question, do the modded ships show up in the rings or just the dealer?

[ocean compass]

just the dealer

[bleak girder]

I have a question, does the big wolf mod still work and are there any issues?

[crude steppe]

Uh you mean this one? Yeah it works

[ocean compass]

could very reasonably give em a slower gimbal speed
than literally instant
:P

[peak parcel]

i mean again i think the balance is the cost and power consumption

like i dont even use them normally because of those two factors

too expensive and no way i can supply enough power

[bleak girder]

I played with this ship, and I have some reservations, when I install two point defense emitters the game automatically crashes and exits, I thought it was a bug, but it crashes every time.

[signal lantern]

I think the reason I don't agree with this is because if you have an endgame supply of money, you can supply them, and they're the correct choice.

The balance in ΔV is supposed to work on a sidegrade philosophy, where every equip has significant drawbacks even in an endgame ship. Ideally, we'd want every piece to be on someone's endgame setup, somewhere.

Nobody says mods have to respect that, but I would agree that those drives are pretty much the endgame drive.

Once good way to balance them out, if the author is interested in that, might be to make repairs to them more expensive, and their wear significantly higher.

[teal cave]

Power draw can be pretty tough sometimes

Or maybe it's heat, I recall my reactor just not being able to keep up

[ocean compass]

this
they hardly wear at all

i run them as RCS on my frigate and i have them max tuned
and i don't ever recall having to repair them

[ocean compass]

and not even "endgame" money
you can very reasonably run them with a moderate APU

[ocean compass]

i do definitely think a limited gimbal speed is a good idea
cause having it be instant is a bit uh
not in the spirit of the game

[neon spear]

Given their description I don't think the gimbal speed is the lever to nerf. It seems part of their design, ironically much like their wear. Tho their wear certainly doesn't need be THIS enormously amazing.

That said, the technology sounds INCREDIBLY expensive to maintain, and the magnetic systems sound quite vulnerable to damage. As well as vulnerable to computer damage on that note, because I don't think that gimballing facilitated entirely by directing magnetic fields exactly works well when the computer is glitching all over the place.

That said, I'm not sure tying component performance to another component's status is possible. But if it is, that could be a very interesting and unusual interaction and a very much potential solution to their advantages elsewhere.

Additionally potential thrust is certainly a balance lever. So is eV.

[ocean compass]

stuff can be more vulnerable to specific damage types right?
so uhhhhh
EMP damage just about nukes their performance

[signal lantern]

I don't mind instant gimbal so much. if I recall, the idea was that it was a thruster array or some such thing? I don't mind that so much, and being instant instead of very fast doesn't gain you a tremendous advantage.

My suggestion would be to tune them to minimum by default, but increase the wear so it's relatively finicky on wear characteristics. And to get up to what's currently default thrust, you have to uptune them. (Which squares wear, while thrust increases linearly.)

Thrusters don't typically respond to EMP damage, so making one of the damage types responsive tyo EMP would help, too.

[ocean compass]

also i swear the NDDFD doesnt do any damage to roids
or
anything

[rare hill]

the pulse is very narrow, it obliterates roids if aimed correctly

[neon spear]

No, iirc the idea is it's a thruster with magnetic thrust vectoring.

[signal lantern]

Probably remembering something else, then. Like the drives that are made of RCS clusters.

But from a balance perspective, I don't have an issue with instant. I think the performance gain between "fast" and "instant" isn't something that can't be balanced.

Fixing the lore agreement can be as easy as adjusting the text to describe a more instant principle of operation. Change the concept instead.

[hollow grail]

yeah so PITs are an actual established concept, they're a type of... hall effect thruster? i can't remember if it's hall effect or some otber effect lol

but yeah they wear really slowly but are super susceptible to collision damage iirc

and are real heavy for what they are, and just suck up power
if you aren't running a big APU with, say, an at225 or eagle then you'll be browning your grid regularly
personally i think that's mostly balanced, it's a "near-future tech" that's also horrifically power-hungry and quirky for the top end of top ends and isn't entirely ideal for every layout

and i mean if u dont like it dont use it right LOL

[atomic hatch]

not like its all that hard to tweak the values to whatever the end user feels is reasonable

i added a 0 to the efficiency and thrust myself

[signal lantern]

I think the issue I have with the power requirement is that once you can wield the APU that can meet that requirement they're mostly just a correct choice.

[hollow grail]

tru. maybe i'm just speaking from my own bias
i don't use them since i fly like a maniac and prefer middling efficiency with good remass processing

better to have moderate efficiency with good power and control and be able to run a light fuel tank
for trawlers though i can see the issue - very potent engine for its efficiency

and it means you can run very light fuel tanks

[signal lantern]

Misalignment's not very imporant to gimballed thrust - changes the range of the gimbal, but the AP should correct for it, I seem to recall. Choke isn't nice, though. I just think the power use is a balance factor that goes away, eventually.

But then, it is a mod, you're allowed to have different ideas about that.

[hollow grail]

it's a valid perspective!! everything helps me get a good outlook

honestly i went into IoE with the perspective of "how do i make cool stuff that compliments the existing repertoire" and balance has just been an afterthought

[feral crag]

I like to look at it like this: mods are for fun and doing things the base game doesn't, and balancing is a tight rope to walk between fun and unfun. So fun comes first, balance later. Let the vanilla game worry about the tight rope 😛

[hollow grail]

lol that's true too

the OK720 does exist

it's called that because when you look at it you say "OK" and turn 720 degrees and walk away

[feral crag]

I cloned my save and put it another slot, specifically to have a save ready to sacrifice to this mod. I must become budget BBW, it's my destiny

[hollow grail]

hehe. budget. it might not have the weapons but it's a potent beast

[feral crag]

that's the only reason I call it budget, gimme those PD Lasers

I can only experience the sheer "Nope" factor of seeing rocks pop to lasers that are slightly offscreen and then a giant exhaust cloud creeps in and I haul outta there. I want to instill that same pucker and nope into the NPCs

[signal lantern]

I just hacked in boatloads of money, myself.

[magic peak]

hmmm

[hollow grail]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-xbox360-michael-jackson360-michael-jackson-xbox360-mj360-gif-27284644

[magic peak]

I see, my bad

[hollow grail]

illustrative diagram. just add another turn

[ocean compass]

only issue is
you cant use the NDTTRs nearly as effectively as the BBW
purely because of the difference in remass you can carry
BBW has 2.3kt of remass (afaik)
the most you can have is .5kt

[hollow grail]

cackles

[ocean compass]

in my experience these drives dont really take any damage

tho that might just be because i have them on the frigate?
idk if that changes anything
cause my lasers and PD turrets still get messed up really easily

i am not careful about collisions
and theyre max tuned
and they only take a few % each dive

[hollow grail]

so a bit of an oversight on my part, i made all the maintenance stuff with the pins really high, including choke

rethinking it now it'd probably be more sensible to have it more sensitive to choke

[hollow grail]

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.7.3

i cant super guarantee the propellant tanks will work but i can guarantee the new thrusters do

anyway my favourite social media site is shutting down so i thought it best to throw myself into a creative endeavour lest i get sad

as for pins ill look into some nerf vectors... like a major downside now is susceptibility to choke, but an existing downside was that they can't be used to vent reactor heat
they just don't consume it!

wear could definitely use a nerf. keep it big but very expensive to maintain when they do wear

i like the idea of them being at low thrust by default but you can tune them to max, i feel like itd break the description/names tho lol

eh i can work around that with a description change
just like "factory default includes Economy Tuning"

until then sleeeeep

[hollow grail]

I SLEP LIKE SHITT but its ok

thank you @crude steppe for the translations hopefully ill have them in next patch since im gonna be working on the PNs today

the jumbo is coming as well... whenever i implement it lol

i say that but it's all there in the code it just needs to actually exist

[peak parcel]

ooh the PNTRm looks interesting

ill definitely have to give it a try next time my tsukuyomi needs repairs

also my take on the pin thrusters is still that the low thrust and high power output make them suboptimal for a lot of setups even with instant rotation

i still use the clustered racing thrusters on my tsukuyomi cause theres no real reason not to, especially since i can use eagle main drives on the back 3 to cut transit times

buuut if i can carry more fuel maybe i can experiment

[hollow grail]

if you can test those tanks id appreciate it, i don't know if they work lol

like as i understand it, the purchase menu doesn't call a preset table in Shipyard.gd like with turbines and rods

it's just a direct modification based on a limit

[crude steppe]

They work, missing specs but that's about it.

[hollow grail]

tasty tasty, thank you

i'll get those filled in

pushed

[hollow grail]

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.7.4

thank you :]

[crude steppe]

Didn't even have time to write here) Really fast release

[hollow grail]

ahaha, no worries, i pushed it with your translation

[crude steppe]

Hmm have you touched elon autopilot in any versions of mod? Looks like collision avoidance is broken, or maybe game updates broke it with mod

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/319510586918699008.png?quality=lossless&name=thonking&size=48

[hollow grail]

i don't believe so!

it does touch the autopilot code a bit for the 337 MAX ap but it shouldn't mess with the others at all

if you could verify that it's not broken unmodded or you haven't changed the tuning settings?

[crude steppe]

Vanilla works, trying with modloader but no mods UPD: also works

[hollow grail]

curious, very curious

the code shouldn't affect any other ap system since it calls back... but maybe i need a return

[hollow grail]

i think i see what's happening

no... no i'm not sure what's happening

see a lot of the code that controls the EIAA falls inside the ship-ctrl.gd

in fact pretty much all of it falls inside that

[hollow grail]

i fixed it. in a really stupid way, mind, but i fixed it

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.7.5

[signal lantern]

The EIAA autopilot essentially lets an NPC pilot your ship for a bit. Most ships function on the same logic.

I seem to recall NPC AI benefitted a lot from fixing issues with EIAA, because it's addressing them both at once.

Not sure if that helps, at all.

[hollow grail]

all good now

also Lurkily you might be more pleased with the changes to the thrusters now hehe

i've significantly changed the wear statistics and they're vulnerable to choke

[bleak girder]

Hey guys ,this is a problem about spacecraft.
I try to modified with RDM cannon turret and always crashing the game

any suggestion 's ?

[hollow grail]

this is an issue ive been struggling with for a while

it doesn't help that the game doesn't say why it crashes

[bleak girder]

I attached two point defense emitters at the front and wanted to attach dual drones at the back and it kicked me out of the game, it could be fixed because the ship is great.

[hollow grail]

give this a try @bleak girder

rather make sure it works before pushing a release

[bleak girder]

Ok

It works, but after trying to start it, the same problem throws me out of the game

I'll try it differently

[hollow grail]

i'm starting to think the stars are conspiring against me

i didn't get these crashes when i tested it 😭

[bleak girder]

So it looks like this, on the first low-stress Hardpoint 1 mount it is ok, but when I mount the drones to Low-stress Hardpoint 4 it throws me out of the game hmm, I bet the problem may lie in a bad mod?

The mod works perfectly, but only on this ship it throws you out of the game

[hollow grail]

yeah that i understand. it's an issue that's come up a lot

[bleak girder]

So I guess I'll give up on this ship and wait until there's a good solution for it.

[hollow grail]

i think the game just doesn't like IoE lmao

[feral crag]

@hollow grail Am I correct in assuming that for your MPUs in this mod, you created variant scenes tailored to each ship you added it to, and then inherited those tailored scenes to the specific ships' scenes?

Instead of doing a single base MPU scene, and then inheriting that and trying to edit it within the ship scene?

This is me assuming you ran into the same quirk where when you inherit the MPU scene to a ship scene it doesn't actually bring over all the nodes in an editable format.

Any tips on helping me understand how MPU mods work would be much appreciated, and of course, take your time, I am in zero rush (I've tried rummaging through your mod in the editor, but I assume something about the way I imported it or something didn't work great, cause I get errors and stuff when I try to open things, which is strange cause it worked fine the first time I looked at your mod in it, but I guess it broke at some point after?)

[hollow grail]

yeah so essentially an MPU is a collider and occasionally a set of sprites too, with script

i just made inherited scenes for every ship

this apace left for beat

and then inserted my new MPUs into every one

[south moss]

Should I be updating these as they release? I haven’t been doing this and I got the mod installed a while back

[hollow grail]

ideally, yes. a lot of updates come with new features

not to mention bugfixes!

[south moss]

Ahh damn i downloaded forever ago 😭

[south moss]

What did I miss recently?

[hollow grail]

every change since ur last update has an entry in the changelog on the github

[south moss]

Ahhh ok I’ll check that

[hollow grail]

what version were u on?

[south moss]

All the way up here, 2 months ago

[hollow grail]

ahh you probably missed 1.7

[south moss]

How do i update github mods manually? Mostly used steam workshop for mods

[hollow grail]

just like you did last time, just delete the old zip and replace it with the release zip here

https://github.com/spdx-github/IndustriesOfEnceladus/releases/tag/1.7.5

[south moss]

Will my save be ok? Didn’t back up my stuff when I first installed 😭

I probably need to do that too 💀

[hollow grail]

yeh

srry im so teerse rn cleanin kb

[south moss]

It’s Alr im Setting up a display box in my bookcase rn

[south moss]

One last question, how do i back up a save? Do i do it through steam?

I wanna backup my save in case getting other mods messes things up

[hollow grail]

uhhh
forgor umm

aha

so you'll have a dV folder in %appdata% (/roaming)

just copy that and put it somewhere

[south moss]

Ahhh ok

[graceful oasis]

@hollow grail sorry for the ping, but what ship would you prefer to have as the mod's "cover art" for the wiki at all? I was thinking Tsukuyuomi or the OCP/K37 mix (forgot the name) SSE OK720 TNTRL (just checked it rn), but i'd rather you have first pick if you'd prefer

[hollow grail]

oh no trouble, hmm

oh, i'm strewn between the two

the 720 would be really funny. but the tsukuyomi would make an impression

[graceful oasis]

lol that's my exact conundrum too. i was split between making the mod seem more serious or silly

[hollow grail]

well it's generally serious with a silly element... so tsukuyomi, as vain as it is

[graceful oasis]

gotcha

i'll put that down for when i get round to finishing the section for this mod 👍

[hollow grail]

kewl :]

yeah i try to make it as like... i guess vanillesque? as possible? does that even make sense

[graceful oasis]

yeah that makes sense to me. i'll figure out how to write it well

[hollow grail]

i wouldn't mind giving pointers or anythin

[feral crag]

Just a friendly heads up that it looks an awful lot like Bootleg and IoE don't like each other when it comes down to game time

[graceful oasis]

i think you've already helped without realizing it. your foreword is pretty much perfect as a description

[hollow grail]

sadly anticipated
you can absolutely make a patch though! you'll notice that my Upgrades.tscn has a bunch of overrides for each new weapon slot - these are themselves .tscns that can be replaced with some clever finagling, but i'd ask za'krin

[hollow grail]

ehehe! so it is

[feral crag]

yeah I assumed they'd probably not like each other, IoE does quite a lot. Might look into doing a compat patch at some point, but for now I figured I'd just make it known in both threads that Bootleg and IoE probably won't vibe together

[hollow grail]

yeah prob best

[feral crag]

it even banishes the ERM-420 to the shadow realm

[graceful oasis]

figured i'm best making a good note about incompatibilities of mods on the wiki bc of this

[hollow grail]

honestly the way i'm doing it rn is the best way that i can do it without having to make everything super fiddly for me... but it does lead to some unfortunate incompatibilities

[feral crag]

Oh I don't blame you for doing things they way you have, in the slightest I would too if I had as an extensive mod as yours

[graceful oasis]

hate to say this for the sake of individuality with mods, but would the best way to do a patch to combine the two mods together perhaps?

[hollow grail]

yeah i mean thats not out of the realm of possibility, but i reckon barrito wants to do their own thing

[coral monolith]

I mean, there is github forking so it wouldn't be out of the relam?

[hollow grail]

ya exactly

all open source biz

[feral crag]

yee, I would say just doing a full blown combo mod would likely be the simplest way to ensure compatibility. I'm not opposed to it at all. But in an ideal world yeah, mods should be able to be used alone or together with other mods without having to hunt down specific combo packs

[graceful oasis]

i'd be down to see it myself, i guess it actually might be a bit less work than trying to figure out how to make the two mods always compatible through updates

[hollow grail]

unfortunately you'd be entirely at the whim of my neuroatypical chronic fatigued ass😭

[feral crag]

I'm wondering if it's possible to do a dependency mod where that basically has all the standard scenes and everything mods might want to mess with, and then mods pull from that dependancy, do their things, and then that dependency is the one that handles the replacing of things, so it replaces with the combined shennanigans of whatever mods use it as a dependency?

crazy methaddedled brain ass idea, but I had it, figured I'd share it

[hollow grail]

like a shared library sorta gig? itd be more possible if... hmm

[feral crag]

have the dependency have a config: "Mod Compat: True/False" if true, do the shennaigans, if false, load mods like normal

[hollow grail]

yeah like having a built-in patch

i can see that

[feral crag]

yep, just a bog standard library type joint that 99% of mods would use as their base

[hollow grail]

for Upgrades.tscn specifically, perhaps that'd be possible, but would need a good bit of code

[feral crag]

oh yeah, of course, I have zero clue on how to even begin implementing the idea, I just had the crazy lightbulb come on

[hollow grail]

my on-the-spot concept involves some script shenanigans and a set of UpgradeUIs in container nodes named after where they would go

since Upgrades.tscn is literally just a list of templates grouped with templates

and some other stuff of course but i've never let that stop me

[feral crag]

Yeah, that was sorta the base of my crazy idea... why have individual mods inheriting game scenes and then doing their monkey business, why not have a middleman that everyone pulls from that makes it easier for mods to vibe together

I reckon this is very much an achievable idea, probably just involves a level of understanding I don't have right now, otherwise I'd already be in the editor banging my head on the wall

[hollow grail]

i'll meditate on this

[feral crag]

If this goes further than just an idea, we might want a thread "Mod Compatibility Library for Upgrades.tscn" or something, but that can be tackled if/when it's needed. If I have any lightbulb moments I'll be sure to share 👍

[hollow grail]

what would be ideal is a watchdog of sorts

like, runs before all mods, and then mods can register with it to be like "okay, i'd like to change this file", then specify what to change and apply them iteratively

[feral crag]

Modloader 2: Compatibility Boogaloo

[hollow grail]

what IoE's currently doing is creating new lists of items for purchase in the upgrades menu, right
it takes the old menus and effectively disables them

what it also does is provides alternate placement positions for the Prospectors... by limiting the upgrade groups shown per model of ship
it does this for a bunch of other things actually

it's entirely possible to still have that but instead, the UpgradeUI objects themselves check for the given model and then go "nope i'm out" when they see they're not desired

[feral crag]

and that would explain why no amount of mod priority lets my mods work with yours, that makes a ton of sense now that it's broken down in front of me

[hollow grail]

yea lol

it's a clever little trick that saves me some time
there are a lot of hardpoints

unfortunately also breaks things for other mod devs

[feral crag]

Yeeeah, so many, so many mount locations

[hollow grail]

it was a bit of a calculated risk at the time lol
there wasnt really many other modders doing stuff when IoE first started development

[feral crag]

Yeah, and I honestly don't blame you for going about it that way, less work for roughly the same result, made at a time when compatibility wasn't really much to worry about

[coral monolith]

Man, ya'll two cooking hard ;w;

[random cypress]

I've been experimenting with a similar concept a bit. Basically instead of one mod priority, you can specify a priority list, each linked to a function in your modmain. After all mods are loaded, the functions are called in order of priority. This would basically let you load mods in the middle of others, allowing for much greater loading compatability. A guideline of what priority different scenes are would be needed to let mods load everything at the correct times, but would likely be easier and more versatile than just registering individual files for change.

[hollow grail]

that's a good way of doin it i reckon

[graceful oasis]

bit late to this, but for the library-esque mod idea, perhaps it could work as a complete wrapper, where it loads before everything and works as a template of sorts where it takes data from subsequent mods and imports it itself and works as a potential compatibility layer for it (idk if it's been suggested, i've had the idea while working and havent had the time to read if any other similar idea was suggested)

[feral crag]

Yeah, that was roughly the basis of my original idea, but I think Za'krin is on to something that would be a better solution

[graceful oasis]

true, i just read that suggestion too and i see what you mean

[feral crag]

Yeah, I kinda struggle with conveying my thoughts through text, usually a bit better at it when it's verbal

my brain is a soupy mess

[graceful oasis]

i completely get you with that (im exactly the same lol)

[past sinew]

How to get these new ships, in dealer i only see basic ship from game.

[graceful oasis]

you find them in the dealer, but like any ship obtainable in there (at least any that aren't the four new ships always at the top), it's purely luck based that you find them

[past sinew]

in Equipment tab in menu some parts are shown 2x like Hardpoints and others, it is ok? or did i mess up with instaling mod?

[graceful oasis]

might be a bug with the mod itself, @hollow grail would be a better person to ask than myself

[hollow grail]

oh this is with the ram

urg yeah two of those are phantom slots

it's an aesthetic bug only

the mod's installed fine, just the upgrade menu thinks it should be showing slots that don't exist but do in the ship config

or, sorry, three are phantoms

[past sinew]

When i instal something i shows it in both slots the same

[hollow grail]

yeah, phantom slots behave like that

[past sinew]

ok thanks

[hollow grail]

you don't have two of each equipped, there's just one in each slot, but the menu's giving you two boxes

i'll have a look at the mod sometime, sorry bout that

[past sinew]

Hmm played some time and, have seen new parts in Equipment but when i install them and fly to rings i dont have them on ship, and still no new ships in dealer. i think i am missing something important for this mod to work

What i did is: 1.Create mods folder in game folder where Delta-V.pck is and put there IndustriesOfEnceladus-1.7.5.zip file 2.Run game on steam with starting options --enable-mods

any help

[crude steppe]

What equipment? There is a lot of them and some are just stat changes like turbines, aux units, capacitor. You won't see that in dive in equipment tab.

New ships are a tricky thing, you could have rolled some ship variant like kx37 RAM or pigeon prospector, OCP Piranha or OCP Deep Dish, they don't look very different from vanilla ships.

Good thing to check OCP has new mounts (even basic variant) for drones cradles etc. so if you have them and they function mod is installed correctly.

[past sinew]

That new manipulator arm, and new main thrusters and when i go to ring ond open "J" menu i see no manipulator arm and main thrustes ;/

i checked ships and only seen standard models from basic game

here i have screenshots with instaled equipment and what i have after going into ring

Russiani KRB500, Main propulsion 44 quad engime, and ruston antonoff MPU Mk2 and when i fly to rings ... puff gone

[crude steppe]

That is really weird. Like every slot is a phantom one... What ship and variant are you flying? I have no idea why it's like this, you can try reinstalling game or verifying files and reinstalling mod.

[past sinew]

recently instaled game( 3-4 days ago) and just today found i can play it with mods , this is first one instaled

ship KX37 TNTRL

[crude steppe]

Well, at this point it's probably best to wait for @hollow grail

[past sinew]

i will reinstal later and try again

[cinder yew]

So uh unsuprisingly the tsuyomi frigate cant dock with the vicily ship to offload prisoners and im scared to try and dock with anything else now considering i have no clue where the COM is

[ocean compass]

you can* dock with the G4A base
*you would end up torching them with RCS but you can