A system that can launch a net at relatively big asteroids, but not the largest ones.
The net would stay linked to the launcher using a rope.
Its purpose would be to be able to break the asteroid into nuggets without everything going in all directions.
The net could be released from its content at any time in order to collect it (the content) and retrieve the net.
It wouldn't work on ships.
You could try to tow the asteroid, but slowing down would throw it towards the ship.
#high stress mount - asteroid net launcher (reusable)
craggy spear
elfin quail
Unfortunally, this is unlikely to be made as I don't have an idea how to make a softbody mesh interacting with our physics without tanking the framerate to oblivion.
craggy spear
I was a bit concerned about this but I just wanted to write down the idea
I got a solution, maybe
craggy spear
Unfortunally, this is unlikely to be made as I don't have an idea how to make a ...
the net wouldn't be physics-based before hitting its target
when hitting the target, it would (instantly?) replicate its form and become solid
would that work?
little yew
I like this idea because it gives players more options to mine without drones. However, wouldn't the kinetic ammunition used by mass drivers and rail guns rip the mining net? Maybe this would only be effective when mining with microwaves and lasers.
craggy spear
I like this idea because it gives players more options to mine without drones. H...
You are right. I'm thinking about this too
icy tendon
That, and when new chunks spawn, how do you contain them in the net when the net's replicated the form of the original roid and isn't any longer an actual physics object interacting with roids?
I assume that means it textures the ice or something to make it look netted.
craggy spear
it could keep its shape, but it wouldn't look very good
icy tendon
Don't get me wrong, it was one of my first asks - I wanted you to have to deploy it and manually encircle the asteroid, but similar concept. But the physics just aren't there, and Koder doesn't want to shortcut on physics.
(Well, the AFFORDABLE physics aren't there.)
craggy spear
that's perfectly understandable
elfin quail
this is my gripe with it: sounds good on paper as presented, but try to figure out how this would actually play out in the game.
little yew
If soft-body physics are a non-starter, then maybe the net could act as a box around the large chunk - just large enough to contain the distance that the small chunks move when the large chunk breaks apart.
icy tendon
Honestly, in game, it would probably waste more time than just finding another rock. Even so, some players are OCD enough that they'd rather capture 100% of an iceroid's yield than harvest faster.
I seem to recall there being a control issue I never really gave much attention, too, also. Like, how do you consume the ore afterwards? Need a way to un-deploy the net.
craggy spear
Honestly, in game, it would probably waste more time than just finding another r...
the net would make things slower for drone users, but faster for other people
icy tendon
Not really, I don't think. Deploying a net, breaking everything up, undeploying it (however that works), and consuming it would probably be about as profitable per minute as just finding more ice and consuming whatever's most valuable.
craggy spear
you would have to chase after the ore
icy tendon
I mean you can if you want to, or you can just go for the easy high-value targets and then thrash more ice.
Helps to be in dense areas, where fast-flying stuff his ice more often.
craggy spear
dense areas aren't dense after what I do there
icy tendon
So, travel a couple hundred meters, or better yet, just sweep right up the length of a prop formation.
craggy spear
I'd just use tug drones
icy tendon
I mean, there's no WRONG way to do it. I just don't think I'd expect it to be a huge efficiency boon.
But I know gamers, and I know that there are some who would do it anyway, either not believing it or knowing and not caring, because that's the way gamers are, they hate seeing powerups drifting away and being lost.
Honestly, one of my dearest wishes is a plasible way to play with physics. Gravity sources, reeling ice into collisions with each other, etc. Give me some Just Cause 4-style grapples that can nail two objects and yank them into each other, and I'd be a happy camper.
But it's not that kind of game. 🙂
little yew
Some great points here. I was picturing the net launcher as a low stress mount that would be used in tandem with the manipulator arm. It would be fun to move several medium to large sized chunks into one area and deploy a net around them. The net could be a consumable and not be retrievable.
craggy spear
I don't really want to see a "net storage"
could it be solid and like this instead?
little yew
I don't really want to see a "net storage"
I agree that it shouldn't be another module on your ship. Maybe it could be integrated into the launcher itself - a hopper containing N balled-up nets.
icy tendon
There's another problem with simple solutions. When you break ice, it checks its own posiiton first to spawn children, so at least one would spawn in the net. But when ice spawns 3-4 chunks, several would seek a place to spawn that would end up being outside the boundary, appearing to teleport.
craggy spear
is it at least possible to make a rope without collisions?
craggy spear
There's another problem with simple solutions. When you break ice, it checks it...
it came to my mind as well when I wrote the post, I don't really have any solution
little yew
There's another problem with simple solutions. When you break ice, it checks it...
Yes. I don't think my simple "box" boundary detection would work. I've only mined using microwaves and mass-drivers so the chunks don't spawn too far away from the original chunk. However, maybe if you are using the NANI this would be a problem.
icy tendon
The rope is part of the physics problem - multiple linked physics objects, each with their own failure conditions and interacting with each other and everything else they touch. The net is just an implementation of rope that's used to encircle the ice.
If you use the EIME with the RA and scoop up whole chunks, you will see this issue constantly, even with just MPU breakdown and no acceleration.
round hull
Another thought could be tethers instead of a net. Latching onto large size rocks and moonless for temp spot mining with a focused mining laser that prevents the rock for fracturing and spinning off at high velocity
icy tendon
There just isn't always space for the entire volume of every chunk when you're confining them in an enclosed space with drifting chunks and ore.
Tethers go back to the rope thing.
round hull
Tether, real yourself in, mine at point blank rock turns to dust and dissipates chunks are left in dense pack to be scooped without haul drones
Would be good for super small ships spot mining for high end ores
icy tendon
Not really the same solution, since it doesn't prevent loss except that you're closer at the start, and better positioned to catch it. But also, it's still a rope, which is essentially lots of little linked physics objects constantly bumping against and pulling each other.
craggy spear
Not really the same solution, since it doesn't prevent loss except that you're c...
I don't know if you're replying to my weird drawing, but I just thought about the fact that the launcher could be pulling the cable with a very little passive force, making the rope straight in theory, and itself having 0 physics in practice, unless it reached its maximum lenght
icy tendon
Koder has resisted suggestions of shortcuts around making the rope a physics thing, on the grounds that shortcuts like this have a tendency to need you to keep going back and fixing them as new developments or new issues cause them to no longer be physically accurate.
Or, at least, that's how I seem to remember it. Been a while since it was discussed.
craggy spear
I don't really see right now how it could be inaccurate
icy tendon
Well, it could cut across much larger ice, but the tethered iceroid might still collide with it.
craggy spear
I didn't think about the cable interacting with other objects
limpid garden
I dunno about the net idea, but a tether-and-reel gun would be cool, if that's easier. I think a lot of emergent gameplay could come out of it, like how the torch damages things and that has its own use, having the ability to tow rocks or ships could be fun
icy tendon
We have discussed tethers and grapples a bit here, but the engine just doesn't like floppy things - they're computationally expensive in terms of physics, and most performance issues we have are from the physics burden.
And most ways of abstracting them away (like just drawing a line and applying force) have various issues that would need workarounds and shortcuts to seem real, which often lend themselves to needing constant treatment.
bronze monolith
Honestly, one of my dearest wishes is a plasible way to play with physics. Grav...
Yes please, is it possible with your dev resources?
bronze monolith
Ok so...as i understand it ...there are game dev difficulties implementing a net around the roid . But the basic idea is to have a way to - contain - the little mineral chunks instead of watching Berilium chunks flying OFF the screen in 2-3 seconds for instance.
Maybe my idea is already in the game (because i havent tried all the cargo bays yet) ...
a)BUT how about a container that can fit larger rocks and break them down to its mineral components.
b) or a mechanical arm that can feed bigger rocks in the container and then break them down.
If it has already been down and i dont know it...sorry i ve wasted your time
idle shard
how about a tether with an electric charge, a floppy nooble that gets the minerals to stick to it ?
azure belfry
heheh magnetic ||dildo ||
idle shard
nooooodle
nova prism
would a buckyball-shape "detonation chamber" be feasible?
icy tendon
Honestly, though, most things I can think of wouldn't be faster, in a practical sense, then just breaking more ice and having tugs equipped, compared to finding a way to break things own and make a little ore ball, then trying to start collection without turning the rest into a giant cloud of pool balls.
idle shard
could be fun having a magnet at the end of a string, attack all surrounding ore and then reel it in 😄
nova prism
U sure those are all ferro/paramagnetic?
idle shard
of course not 😄
nova prism
Tbh I'd take it problematic in this hard-scifi game. Not only elements, but chemical formulas should be given to determine...and that makes things too complicated
idle shard
"magnets"
azure belfry
U sure those are all ferro/paramagnetic?
ARM already magnetically attracts all ore/roids/anomalies
nova prism
ARM already magnetically attracts all ore/roids/anomalies
gotta adjust my headcanon!
elfin quail
One problem I have with this idea, I absolutely can't see how that would look in-game, and thus have no idea how to even start implementing it.
icy tendon
It's a very 3D concept to try and represent in 2D space - the only ideas I have about visuals have always needed cosmetic shortcuts that obviously aren't real, but get the idea across. (Like the comic-artist trick of just using a texture for shirt patterns, instead of drawing the pattern with intelligent adjustments for folds and how it would alter the pattern.)
elfin quail
yeah all the ideas I got would look out-of-place, what's why I ask if there is one behind this. Perhaps @craggy spear had a specific vision in mind.
craggy spear
yeah all the ideas I got would look out-of-place, what's why I ask if there is o...
No, not really.
icy tendon
I think for a tether, graphics are easy enough, it's just the CPU demand that's rough.
For nets, all I can think of is a texture bounding whatever you manage to trap, dynamically warped at the edge to look 3dish, but it would pretty obviously be a visual cop-out.
icy tendon
Yeah, but how do you illustrate a net deploying around a 3D object without 3D?
Remember, DV is all sprites and shaders.
bronze monolith
This is getting too complicated maybe? What if the devs will say that it cant be done, because it became a science fiction conversation and it takes away time from actual development time? Any objections?
azure belfry
What bout a super strong electromagnetic field that acts as a net because it attracts everything to its center. It would require a high power output and for the effects you could use a modification of the gunny lighting effects
It could even be a deployable device that acts like the ARM but instead of one thing, it attracts everything in a radius, with force/range being tunable
bronze monolith
Ok good people, by this point I am confused. is this net thing just ANOTHER tool idea to have in our disposal to mine roids easier or is it a plausible solution to an already existing gameplay problem?
If it it the fist one then fine it is great to throw around ideas and have a discussion.
BUT if it is the second part then maybe we havent experienced the game to its full?
Here is my experience so far with the game concerning the mineral chunks flying all over the place.
I started with the K37 mounting a mass driver, like everyone else. It was driving me crazy because i was watching money flying off the screen, but thats the problem with kinetic weapons.
then i bought a microwave emitter, a HUGE improvement to the mining experience. i was collecting my money easier. Rarely money were flying away.
Then i bought a mining lazer WITH the addition of some Tug drones. And Oooohhh my space lords the whole mining experience became enjoyable and profitable. Like A LOT. The lazer has 8 kms RANGE. 8 kms !!! It breaks apart roids that arent even in the screen until much later. And the drones bring the money on arm's reach. LITERALLY. Becasuse I also bought an Arm manipulator and I m feeding Maney to Ma Mouth . Now my current problem is the cargo bay is too small for the money i can make. So i am moving to my next upgrade, for the cargo bay
What I m trying to say is ...maybe the devs have already gave all the solutions we need to our "mining problems"?
vast prism
I think the asteroid net is to satisfy players who want to swallow large asteroid whole similar to the EMIE ability to collect large asteroid and process them
icy tendon
I don't feel it's a solution to a problem. When ore is lost, there's always more, and this probably wouldn't save time when you have to scatter an ore ball to pieces to get the good chunks without swallowing every rock that represents 20 min of processing out water for 900 kg of iron.
A lot of players of all games have a little OCD in the background, though, and the idea of breaking up ice to lose 85-95% of it to the void, I get that frustration. A net was one of my early asks, too, though I wanted it to be something you anchored and required you to physically circle the iceroid with to secure.
The visuals can't really look good, though, and the physics will be computationally expensive, and magnetic solutions are likely to work well except for the collection of iron.
sweet blade
Hello, I'm here to lobby for this. The idea I had was of a cheap, low-stress turret that launches small nets that can catch a single ore nugget and prevent it from flying off the screen, like a low-tech early game alternative to haul drones. it would have the same element+value filters for autofiring that the drones have, but need a clear line of sight to the nugget, a limited number of nets to be launched at the same time, and it would consume a small amount of remass with every launch.
The net graphics are always the same, it would look like a line perpendicular to the tether, and it would glitter because it has weights on the edge and it is spinning to maintain it's disk shape until it hits the ore nugget, you never see the disk shape because you are looking from above. Then, the nugget capture animation is always the same because all nuggets have roughly the same size. Maybe you can make the net a tiny vehicle with panels that let you accelerate it and lightly steer it from the ship using lasers mounted on the same turret.
The tether doesn't even have to be a cable. Here is the design for the support booms on the Roll Out Solar Array, they are a flat tape that becomes a structural support as it's unrolled. the tether can be a solid object that extends and then is rolled up again while retrieving the nugget, a thin gray line.
idle shard
ohhhhh that is so fricking cool 😮
I didn't know that's how the rollout solar support booms work 😮