PuddleStompers Guide to the Tri-M System

[zenith star]

Come to rest in the Crucible of Stars? Here, hide away from the rest of the galaxy within one of the most miraculous balances physics has ever struck.

Howdy, this is an ongoing project I have been working on pretty steadily since 2024, this .lcp is the first major part of a far grander project. Ultimately, that goal is a fleshed out campaign within the Tri-Matron system. This guide, being the first step, is my main focus for now and will be so for the coming months.

As of right now this guide currently has:

• A new GMS frame
• 14 Original licenses split between 2 manufacturers
• 7 alt frames
• 12 Core Bonuses
• and 8 Talents

I don't wish to bloat this introduction, so I will cut the rest of this short, you can find the 1.0 Beta for the project here: https://logez.itch.io/puddlestompers-guide

-# As of right now, it has full art for all added non-GMS frames, and as of 12/27 full flavor text has not been implemented but is the first update being worked right after this. I will also be expanding upon Tri-M, the two manufacturers Safety Obstruction-Solutions and Sage-Wisemann // Munitions Grant, as well as the individual frames and licenses themselves in the coming days.

I will be fulfilling that promise of expositing tomorrow, it has been a long day of cobbling all of this together as well as finishing up the Aldrin/Armstrong and night calls.

[burnt egret]

Wow! I love to engage in grassroots movements!

(Logez and I are friends irl btw)

[zenith star]

Woaw a real customer.

[burnt egret]

(I'm also writing for this project)

[zenith star]

It's true, we've been food poisoned by the same restaurant together.

[ionic sundial]

oh this is cool

I'll check it out in the morning

[zenith star]

I’ll respond in the morning.

[ionic sundial]

First impressions:
-I love the art no notes 10/10
-The altframe for Iskandar is not in the lcp so I can't say much about that one.
-When you said that SW//MG pushed the game to its limits, boy howdy you were not kidding, I didn't read the description for them on the itch.io page so opening up Solomon's profile was a flashbang and a half, and then it kept going with every subsequent frame.
-By comparison S0-S feels kinda bland (unavoidable when the other manufacturer is entirely homebtew crimes tbh)

[zenith star]

• Yeah the Solomon was the second frame conceived for the project back in 2023 when I learned what the upper limit on mounts comp/con would allow actually was.

• Thank you for reminding me to take the Darius off of the itchio page, I was having trouble justifying it as an Iskander alt and eventually put it on the backburner for the 2.0 version as a full HA license to go along with the "One full license and alt for the big 4 and a new license for SOS and SWMG" plans for that.

• SOS is definitely the "Good honest homebrew" portion of the package, its mostly to expand upon what I saw as a few missing niches in the base licenses or make some decently more complicated versions of some playstyles I saw as Lancer sort of having not fully explored yet (healer, Overshield, an actually defensive striker)

• thank you for the compliments on the art, I will be updating some of the obviously lower fidelity pieces in 2026 as we work, mainly the ones I made in the spring (Calyptra, Baba, Curie, Huang mainly)

[frigid lake]

Would definitely love to see a playtest for this one day

[burnt egret]

i mean, it's technically already out

you can use the frames

unless you mean Logez running a session with the Tri-M stuff for people to join

[zenith star]

There is a possibility to this but it will probably pull double duty as campaign scenario test runs as well

[halcyon bison]

truly horrifying stuff, excellent show all round. the new 'It's Technophile ... But Not' talent was particularly terrifying! I also really like what I can see of the art - but since the frame-by-frame images are hosted on Imgur, I can't access them in the UK. Would it be possible to upload good quality ones here, with an indication of which is which frame? Thanks!

[dull jacinth]

I'm a little confused by "it's technophile but not" - which talent did you mean?

[zenith star]

Most likely

-# oh god how did it go off the top of my head

“An Affectatious Affectationem Affectare”

[zenith star]

Certainly, I will probably make a little collection of them in here with introductory spiels to cover for the lack of flavor text. I didnt know about the imgur issue, I may look into different image hosting thats more open.

[dull jacinth]

I am a fool with too many lcps installed and wasn't looking at the right set of talents

[zenith star]

My Comp/Con really doesn’t get along with more than like. 3 homebrews at once so at this point I just enable and disable as I need.

[placid garden]

Quick question, how does the Koschei interact with Briareos Frame? The frame trait says it cant take structure damage from other characters, thus the downside to BF wont activate (0 structure 0HP) Or am I looking at this wrong and missing something that'd prevent this combo from being good?

[zenith star]

Damn it. A crack has been found. Both I and my resident crazy person friend who can normally spot stuff like that wrote off Briareos frame so hard because I legitimately over the course of the 6 Lancer campaigns I have been in have never seen a player hit 1 Structure that I completely forgot about it in my sweep to check for anything that automatically breaks the Koschei.

Genuinely though. I think its fine. That is minimum 5 LLs for a combo that is most likely just going to offset the constant Exposure it exists in.
The Koschei is one of the few "I got to playtest the HELL out of this thing" frames and I will make sure to check out if that actually is to much. I feel a little okay with a mech being very strong with a Core Bonus over a single piece of gear because that still allows for build diversity in what licenses to go for within IPS-N rather than just Shermanizing or something.

-# I mostly don't want to add another clause to the thing because sunk cost has set in on its design and if I need to put it "the Koschei cannot gain resistance to damage" I think that would be admitting defeat.

[placid garden]

in addition; systems, traits and core bonuses that trigger off structure wont work on the koschei? Things like The Lesson of Transubstantiation or Armament Redundancy wont work or trigger its traits right?

[zenith star]

Yeah, but I see that as like saying Ranged weapons won't work on a Sekhmet or Enkidu build as well, you just factor in the Frames inherent biases in "stuff" it works well with.

Although Armament redundancy would work because it still functions like you having had rolled a system trauma.

[placid garden]

Ah, I though since it had the Indestructible tag it wouldnt work

[zenith star]

Nah, it isn't the redundancy being destroyed it simply has the effect of ignoring a weapon destruction outcome of system trauma. Why doesn't it just become destroyed instead... who knows. Something probably came up in playtesting that revealed it would be easier to go with this effect.

[placid garden]

Ok, cool. I can already see a maybe viable build stuffed full of 1 SP systems and rank 3 engineer.

actually, got a build for the Koschei already. Got nothing better to do right now. What do you think? The name generator on the first roll gave me the perfect name for it "Amen to Nothingness"

-- HORUS Koschei @ LL6 -- (MK II)
[ LICENSES ]
IPS-N Blackbeard 2, HORUS Lich 2, IPS-N Tortuga 1, IPS-N Kidd 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Briareos Frame, Improved Armament
[ TALENTS ]
Engineer 3, Duelist 2, Heroic 2, Executioner 1, Vanguard 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
STRUCTURE:1 HP:15 ARMOR:0
STRESS:1 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:2
TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:8 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: Prototype Weapon III
FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
FLEX MOUNT: Chain Axe
HEAVY MOUNT: Nanocarbon Sword
[ SYSTEMS ]
Unhinge Chronology, PEBCAC, Wandering Nightmare, Wandering Nightmare, Wandering Nightmare, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy

[zenith star]

I like the idea of Engineer so you guaranteed have a weapon no matter how beaten you are.

Seeing a build pit in front of me and running some numbers in my head, yeah. I think it is in line with most “tanky” striker/defender style play, its a bit hard to feel out through mental simulations alone but a LL6 tank with roughly 26-28 HP (since you round up on resistance it is slightly less than simply doubling the HP value if you assume permanent resistance) and 0 armor starting out with 8 Heat Cap that essentially always rolls 1 on overheating and can never roll a lucky 6 in structure checks doesn’t sound like its punching above its weight.

Having naturally on average 6-8 less HP base and not taking reinforced frame nor sloped plating makes it fall in line with other defender builds bulk wise.

You just have added flavor and a different mentality since played normally, you truly are “unkillable” but can be rendered essentially moot with enough fire power. Which. Basically is how most 3 Armor builds or 40 HP builds sound anyways.

[zenith star]

I will say though Blackbeard 3 isn’t being used here so that is an opening for Pebcac, Dsas, even Bulwark mods for more 1 SP goodies.

I feel very satisfied in saying I think the Koschei has “build potential” which is something not guaranteed for most alts since even some base game ones pigeonhole themselves quite hard.

I don’t know, my aforementioned “game break finder” @plucky prism has been a big help in troubleshooting the Koschei. It wouldn’t be as “functional” as it is without them.

[placid garden]

Yeah, i somewhat changed the build; Blackbeard to 2, Tortuga to 1 for DSAS, dropped Stormbringer for Vanguard 1, and dropped Skirmisher for heroic 2 for better durability. No more longer range (save for engi 3) but it does have the base speed to get to targets. Would dropping Lich 3 for Kidd 1 be better? Replace Didymos and Stay with PEBCAC and Unhinge?

[delicate gale]

Figured I should join this server for this lmao

[burnt egret]

no no, that's not the title you gave them lmfao

"resident crazy person" is way funnier

we all need one of those

[zenith star]

They told me they would be officially more included in the project (despite their name already being on it) so I figured it could use more professionalism.

[burnt egret]

professional my ass, Tom drew a caliban pilot's tits to demonstrate how the suit fit together

we can include it as a secondary title to their actual position

[zenith star]

Tom had social cred to spend

[zenith star]

Lot of people with this exact profile pic in servers I am in. Odd.

[delicate gale]

Wait huh

[zenith star]

It would fit better with the “grabbag of good stuff to throw” sort of idea behind Koschei.

[zenith star]

Cig I’m joking.

[delicate gale]

OHHH

[zenith star]

They’re all you

[placid garden]

In an effort to not spam the chat with the same build posts, i'll edit the original post to the updated build. As to what you said, yeah the Chei definitely has "build potential" I can see a fairly annoyingly tanky support sniper build. The normal Lich has always stumped me on how to build it, seemingly too complicated for to make a decent build for it. The Chei is one of the few Lich alt frames that have similar para-casual time shenanigans but not like a brick wall to build with (looking at you Senespada) The art of the mech is very much the cherry on top

[zenith star]

The art is I think the 6th??? one I did back in oh god April and its one that really deserves my vastly improved skills now. Though the first half of them I did need retouching or fully new art now IMO.

[zenith star]

The lich always felt like a “flavor license” in that its identity was being extremely weird and obtuse and just sort of enjoyable in that way.

So I figured an Alt for it should invoke those same feelings but be more applicable to actual lancer combat.

-# also dammit the curse of a good melee mech makes for a better sniper strikes again.

[placid garden]

Thats old art? Can't wait to see what you do with it. Would you say the Raleigh has that same curse too? CPR Raleigh says hi

[zenith star]

I think the cowboy aesthetic is overpowering on the raleigh even if I have seen sniper builds used on it

But like. Tokugawa is one of the best sniping mechs in the game and that thing has the enkidu as an alt.

[placid garden]

oh yeah, almost forgot about the Sniper Toku. gotta love displacer or fusion rifle on it

[zenith star]

Oh god I didn’t even consider 25 Range Displacer.

[placid garden]

I think of my theoretical builds for Displacer Toku was called "Solar Snapshot" very fitting name

[zenith star]

Can you mod the displacer? If so Nanocomp on that thing and bonus range would be terrifying from an enemy perspective.

“So hows the war going for you guys”

Shooumpt

[placid garden]

I believe you can, though i can't remember if that build had enough sp or levels to get balor 2

[zenith star]

Uh… Toku 2, Nap 3, Monarch 2, Balor 2… Yeah you can get there.

It wont be good at that level

But fun conceptually

Eh, LL9 is probably still able to handle some meme builds but it IS the cut off point in my eyes

[placid garden]

Gotta love a heat seeking blackhole gun

[zenith star]

Yeah I operate off of every space in lancer being roughly 5 Cubic meters of space (well as cubic as a hexagon can be) so randomly having half a squad be deleted from existence nearly half a kilometer by a target you cant see but your heat sensors can detect from that far would be traumatizing

[placid garden]

its like that one meme of the bright glowing guy in a diner, but he's standing on a hillside

[burnt egret]

i imagine it in the same tone of Will Ferrell's character when his car flips over in "Talladega Nights."

"Oh! Look at that guy!"

Shwumpf

[zenith star]

-# I am realizing now I have left out a mechanical rewording I needed to implement before sending this out. It is semi obvious what it is in that it makes no sense why it would be there without this change. If anybody can point it out to me they get 10 dollars.

[zenith star]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FOcxqo50ApXH8J5zT3zUW5O6TqOlV9KpFSIy3ADvWXM/edit?usp=sharing

Making this for Hearth-7's homebrew channels since google docs are more well recieved over there, figured it would help anybody who just wants to look at the mechanics without downloading it yet.

It is just the frames for now, but licenses, talents, core bonuses, and what not should be coming to it within the coming days. It feels good to mull over it all again and it has helped me catch a scant few typos. If anything I am proud I have only found 3 minor ones in the entire thing so far without doing an actual clean sweep of it.

[zenith star]

Work on lore blurbs is moving swimmingly, I hope to have the first draft done by about the 10th.

[zenith star]

-- IPS-N Raleigh @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
IPS-N Raleigh 2, IPS-N Tortuga 2, SO-S Nobel 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Gyges Frame, Mount Retrofitting
[ TALENTS ]
Guard Dog 3, Executioner 2, Skirmisher 2, Duelist 1, Gunslinger 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
STRUCTURE:4 HP:23 ARMOR:1
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:7
TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+1
SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:7 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: M35 Mjolnir
RETROFITTED MOUNT: Catalytic Hammer (Pressurized Mod) / Hand Cannon // Mount Retrofitting
FLEX MOUNT: Catalytic Hammer (Pressurized Mod)
HEAVY MOUNT: Pressurized Sledge
[ SYSTEMS ]
“Roland” Chamber, Personalizations

Took a little break to theorycraft with Pressurized Mod because I finished up the Nobel's blurbs. I think this could be some good fun.

[lament dawn]

hey @zenith star I'm the guy that you were speaking to on reddit about balance. I do understand what you are saying, and I specifically do recognize that ordnance is rough and threat 1 is also rough, but gaining 1d6+4 (an entire nanocarbon's damage), and AP, and reliable, AND free action stabilize is far too much reward. You can always prepare a boost in order to start your turn adjacent to someone without doing much in the way of controlling. yes that takes a prepared quick action, but in exchange you are gaining a nanocarbon's worth of damage (over kin hammer), same reliable as a quick action prepared Sheavy, and (quite easily given the extreme damage) a free action stabilize.

I do also want to reiterate, as a homebrew dev myself, this shit rules and is very fun, but I do stand by the OP bit

if you disagree with my take tho, totally valid, it is your LCP, if you like it then that is what you should do

[zenith star]

Doesnt preparing an action require a targeted effect?

I don’t think you can prepare a “boost” in general.

[lament dawn]

I do not believe so

"any other quick action"

the evil and nefarious prepare action coming in to ruin balance as usual

[zenith star]

Hmm. Odd. That feels like it could really mess with sequencing if given that much freedom.

[zenith star]

Tell me about it

[lament dawn]

oh it does lol

prepared action fold space, no save, your turn is gone now. prepared action smite/eject power cores, two turn stun/jam lol

[burnt egret]

Boy

Weird to think I apparently haven’t even started playing Lancer lmfao

[zenith star]

Damn. I really do hate putting explicit bondages onto things.

It would be kind of a design failure to just put the phrase “you cannot prepare actions with this equipped wouldnt it.

I did create it with the understanding a prepare had to be a targeted effect.

[lament dawn]

most GM's that I know (including myself) run a rule where any effects that last until end of next turn, last until the turn it is applied on if it is a prepared action

so prepared action smite remains a 1 turn stun

[zenith star]

Iskander is a melee mech dont you know

[lament dawn]

that would be a suboptimal fix

[zenith star]

Exactly

Maybe I make it a psuedo superheavy then. Like it has a quick action to mark a foe or something. Ill go back to the drawing board with it.

If you had mentioned that prepare thing on reddit I probably wouldve agreed, I look like a fool talking about Ferrous lashes and Hunds traits now when you can just say “I start my turn early” instead

[lament dawn]

lol nah it is very very clear that you thoroughly thought it through, definitely dont look like a fool

[zenith star]

“I set a mine, I prepare a ferrous lash for when you start your turn, get wrecked lol”

[lament dawn]

missing a thing inevitably happens when you try to balance stuff

the amount of times that people (including myself) do things where like, you gain something for becoming enganged with someone, and then we all collectively forget that you can just be bigger and then wiggle and spam the hell out of it

[burnt egret]

Hit ‘em with the fuggin

https://youtu.be/SVyMN9m1_Ss?si=2NJczEzqN-CH_oqC

[zenith star]

Think I came through with an idea and whilst it is rather blunt and makes the design far less clean visually but also does solve the issue I was having with "but what about Skirmisher 2" and that is simply making it a dual profile weapon that requires a quick action to "charge" it immobilizing you until the end of next turn and providing some new design space with possibly designating targets for the free stabilize to extra incentivize that target to avoid you hard, or something.

boy now I am just worried about everything else that is suddenly broken by prepared actions being that unchained

I guess I would also like to inquire about anything else that came across as far too overpowered because you did state it was "so much"

[lament dawn]

I do think a heavy D/D-288 is solid

though you desperately need support/controller teamates, because NO enemy is willingly walking at you

[zenith star]

Well don't worry its really good on control points and king of the hi-

What do you mean every player just ran off the point to kill every enemy and it becomes attrition every time.

[lament dawn]

lol I unironically personally have objectives end after round 4 instead of core book's 6

makes them much more urgent

[zenith star]

Yeah, I am working on a campaign module and a big part of its effort has been "how to make players engage with the goddamn sitrep please stop trying to rout the enemy"

[lament dawn]

but yeah I do think that heavy D/D-288 is a solid path

[lament dawn]

as for this, seimei's passive. Yes, the enemy does have to hit you in order for you to even use it but determinsitic, breaking LOS, breaking everything stun

whole mech is breaking duplicate action restrictions

yes, save 7, tech 7 but you have to target it for it to do anything yes, but it's a functionally immortal SP 12 support

it is a strange form of immortality which is definitely interesting

[zenith star]

See.

My problem is.

I am not sure if I am emotionally capable of changing the Seimeis nonsensical design.

[lament dawn]

well see that is totally valid

[zenith star]

I am too attached to that stupid all 7s idea

[lament dawn]

but it remains true that it is absurd

I do think it is at least fun

people who play the seimei will have fun

[zenith star]

I'm just glad your second topic you mentioned was one that I can agree is broken is some way.

I honestly saw the seimei as a license with a lot of fun toolbox stuff on the license and a headache of a mech

but one I couldnt compromise on

True with the Solomon as well.

[lament dawn]

ok well solomon was next on my list lol

[zenith star]

Cause its homebrew, the GM has the right to ban things easily

[lament dawn]

I guess I will skip that one

[zenith star]

let me guess next is koschei?

[lament dawn]

next is the core bonus that gives you the apocalypse rail

[plucky prism]

That is my baby and it is beautiful.

[lament dawn]

dawg

[zenith star]

See languard jokingly suggested it

and I took it seriously

[burnt egret]

Oh trust us, that one’s meant to be funny

[zenith star]

becasue SWMG is a joke manufacturer

[lament dawn]

Oh I'm sure it is meant to be funny

it seems to me like you all actually totally understand how absurd and game breaking a lot of this is and are totally fine with it

which is respectable

but do you need me to tell me the game breaking stuff lol?

[zenith star]

I mean. You did point out a giant flaw in the beheading axe.

I was wondering if another would surface there.

[lament dawn]

well the firewall core bonus is a lot

[zenith star]

Cause I know what I meant to be broken, like I am surprised Autocon has never been mentioned by anybody in any thread so far

[lament dawn]

aint NO ONE read that shit

lol I haven't read it fully

[zenith star]

and thus it is pure

[lament dawn]

just outright denying the existence of e-wars

[zenith star]

I mean, Languard and I need to completely retool it

[lament dawn]

yeah they can heat you up, but lots of mechs just like having big heat caps and coolant measures

[zenith star]

it probably is on the chopping block, it is a holdover from the 2023 rendition when SOS was far more anti tech overall

at least it should be cleaned up.

[lament dawn]

Hyper awareness scanners does not need the free sensors 20 lol

this is something that was tried from massif. anything that changes sensors homogenizes the game a bit

[zenith star]

The psysop gamers need a win

[lament dawn]

What I would do is make it similar to titanomachy

pick ONE of the other two, OR duplicate one.

instead of do both of the other two

[lament dawn]

so you read it as psyop too lol. It is sysop

but all of us read it as psyop

[zenith star]

dammit I was lazy and didnt want to look it up again

[lament dawn]

psyop is a funny name for it to be so I too just assumed it was that

[zenith star]

I agree with a lot, it does come down to needing to playtest the core bonuses especially since that is a lot more specialized than "does this frame on its own break stuff"

Or, calculating damage numbers

[lament dawn]

Honestly core bonuses are the majority of the things I think are too much

Barring the things you've stated you like and dont wanna change which is fair lol

[zenith star]

Its because Core Bonuses are quite hampered in design space IMO, they kinda are completely restricted with Opcal and IPSN/Heatfall.

[plucky prism]

I definitely always get too caught up in the strength variation because some of them are just... sooooooooo much stronger that it can be hard to get like a baseline on how strong they are?

[zenith star]

They are tough to make good, fun, and balanced.

[lament dawn]

Now, importantly, "Simply strapping another reactor to your back" is actively throwing to take lol

[zenith star]

Anything for another quick action.

[lament dawn]

indeed they are very hard

[lament dawn]

I think anything that is a bit weaker than or similar in power to things like IPS-N's stuff or OP cal is generally fine

OP cal is an extra 3.5 average damage for your weapon

that's good, but not like absurd. especially when you take into account that if ur a bonus d6 striker with nuc cav, buddy gives you a leader, thermal charge, etc. Every single instance of bonus damage you stack, the percentage improvement of the next one is lesser

[zenith star]

OpCal isn't actually that much in general but its just so generically the best option for most first drafts of builds it makes it hard to branch out if you have that powergamer bug in yah.

It isn't the strongest thing in the game ever, but it being GMS makes it always a top 3 option most of the time.

[lament dawn]

I think anyone that is a striker/x or doesnt have striker in their role is making a bad choice to auto include OP cal

even orchis who can do really good skirmish damage just doens't need it, it can still do an average of 24 damage in a skirmish

[zenith star]

I would need somebody in a game I am playing to not go striker or hardline Controller with no hull

[lament dawn]

lol

[zenith star]

or running

[plucky prism]

Hey!

[zenith star]

Watch it the cavalier has arrived.

[lament dawn]

I don't think core bonuses need to be so strong that they convince the player who isn't making a particularly good build to take them

they do not need to be universally good

full sync on a drake is an awful choice, but an incredible choice on anyone base evas 10 or 12

so yeah anyways point is, core bonuses in general are a bit too much (excluding the extra reactor one that one is actively harmful)

[zenith star]

I may just be around powergamers to much in 2025.

[burnt egret]

-# gee y’think?

[lament dawn]

I mean

optimizing everything is totally fine

[zenith star]

Yes they balance out your refusal to read the rules

[lament dawn]

but most people are very wrong about what optimal actually is

supports in lancer can be fucking absurd

[plucky prism]

^^^

[zenith star]

Well yeah because its the Atlas whilst believing in yourself

[burnt egret]

Imagine how our game would have gone if we had known about the held action thing.

[zenith star]

Still easy?

Supports are pretty good, its just boring sometimes which I don't see them a ton.

[lament dawn]

if they think ur game is too easy just start giving enemies elites that shouldnt have em

lol

[zenith star]

it was a module

[lament dawn]

Genuinely lancer is designed well enough where there is almost always a way to win if you lock in

[plucky prism]

^^^

[zenith star]

which I do not want to bring up really since it would come across like trashing somebody when it really isn't

[zenith star]

Tell em languard.

[lament dawn]

almost

[plucky prism]

One shots are different Logez.

[lament dawn]

50 elite ronins arent gonna lose a 1v50

[zenith star]

I disagree

[plucky prism]

AND WE WON AGAINST THE 6 ULTRAS IN THAT ONE SHOT BECAUSE WE LOCKED IN IF YOU REMEMBER

[lament dawn]

but if you have 5 PC's, 5 NPC's + 1 elite, oh yeah they can win that hard if they play well

[lament dawn]

6 ultras is barely winnable lol but it is

[zenith star]

I only remember the Direct message with the screenshot of the round 1 15 activations

[zenith star]

no because of direct hits lol

[lament dawn]

I'm gonna keep reiterating that I like your LCP, and I do not wish to rag on it at all lol btw.

[zenith star]

I got that.

[lament dawn]

kk cool

[zenith star]

It's fun to talk about this sort of thing.

[plucky prism]

I really appreciate what you have to say. A critical eye is important to help notice where we went stir crazy with just our experiences.

[zenith star]

Especially when so much of the lcp is begging to have somebody direct message me inquiring about any head related incidents as a child

[lament dawn]

I too have some bullshit nonsense in my LCP

[burnt egret]

It’s nice having input that isn’t just the three of us

[zenith star]

oh yeah thats the good shit

[plucky prism]

I'm definitely going to have to go check out this.

[zenith star]

I knew you had made one but I wasn't familiar with your game sir.

[lament dawn]

it's called freistride chassisworks, it's in #lancer-news and comp/con

[lament dawn]

most of it is a bit more boring than ur stuff lol

If you guys have any feedback on my stuff I would also love to hear it

[zenith star]

I mean I am looking at the perma-Deidymos so you may be sellign yourself short.

[zenith star]

I will go take a look

[lament dawn]

so I really fuck with wheel.breaking btw

like super hard

however I would allow them to overheat themselves

if the GM wants to expose themself to clear the jam, let em do it I think

[zenith star]

I made it like that so you could essentially force them to take all of it instead of become exposed. Like they had no out.

But again, could be too overpowered.

I won't lie, I have done a recklessly small amoutn of true playtesting.

[lament dawn]

It's just that like, it's a LOT of conditions. It is functionally a 3 heat impaired + slowed

[lament dawn]

instead of frag sig which is 2 heat impaired slowed

[zenith star]

I have made sure to try and snag any game breaking things that are unintended but numbers will need to be pinned down

[lament dawn]

well you have a shit load of content lol it's hard to playtest it all

[zenith star]

I uh.

I did also cut a lot.

Entirely because I wanted a break form drawing mechs

[lament dawn]

all of my stuff is playtested, but I have two guys willing to playtest a lot, and it's only a total of 14 mechs in the whole LCP

[zenith star]

I mean 14 is still more than the average.

[lament dawn]

6 alts, 8 regulars

[zenith star]

I have just gone overboard. I don't know many lcps that even approach 22

[lament dawn]

I think I know exactly 1

field guide to liminal space, 3 manufacturers

[plucky prism]

I love reading through liminal space.

[zenith star]

and I am planning on a 2.0 with a third manufacturer and new licenses for all 6 as I develop the campaign story...

I don't know why, but I cannot stop myself

This will somehow end with me just making a mech trpg

[lament dawn]

that's funny you say that cuz that is how this STARTED for me

I realized that was a bad choice and downsized lol

godspeed if you do that lol

[plucky prism]

I have tried talking down on multiple parts. Bless Logez's vision but there is only so much time in the day and amphetamines for the nights.

[zenith star]

Like, I keep coming up with ideas that would work really well when fleshed out but I didn't want to break my one major rule for puddles which is " no new keywords and nothing that would require extra effort outside of Comp/Con to implement into a build."

[zenith star]

I take them in the morning.

[lament dawn]

does this mean hostile?

or is this supposed to harm allies too lol

[zenith star]

Its a commentary on war making bastards of all of us ah shit I knew I missed one

[lament dawn]

lol I did this too with one of my defenders

[plucky prism]

It's amazing how many times we read through this and find new shit all of time.

God forbid the Seimei took like 20 passovers to fix most glaring issues.

[zenith star]

Look I let myself be free with the Seimei.

[lament dawn]

what's your opinion on these in comparison?

[zenith star]

Making it balanced was an impossibility whilst sticking to the zodiac theming

[zenith star]

I actually have reworked the Richard a bit with Languards help for the blurb update, its basically the same trait.

[lament dawn]

fair enough

cuz I was gonna say that richard's seems kinda outright better

[zenith star]

New richard

and Cerberus because the old one wasn't fitting with the lore direction we wanted to go for Cerberus

[lament dawn]

makes more sense

[lament dawn]

I would just clarify exactly which bits are heat 2 self

both?

My immediate assumption is both

[zenith star]

Eh, it would be the first, core lancer is finicky on if it mentions it so I figured it would be alright but I did add a new thing so I should clarify better.

Plus I am trying to be more consistent and with more polish than base anywasy so no excuse

[lament dawn]

yeah honestly most of the stuff that I haven't spoken of yet is smaller stuff

which idk if that's worth everyone's time lol

like does morgana really need a flex mount?

just stuff like that

If I see anything beheading axe adjacent I will make sure to let y'all know tho

[zenith star]

A lot of things I can answer with "it was a holdover that I haven't fully cleaned away"

[lament dawn]

ah fair enough

honestly very real lol

[zenith star]

In this case, the Morgana being way more cranked as a frame but instead of buffing an enemy it straight up spawned a custom NPC that was out for blood.

[burnt egret]

That was a fun time

[lament dawn]

that is fun lol

[zenith star]

So for that one it was "everything about the Morgana should be a bit OP" and then the Pen Dragi lost a lot of sauce

[lament dawn]

Grand apprentice is potentially the best trait in the game lol

[zenith star]

It only stopped becuase the lcp editor can't handle NPCs without making Comp/con crash until C/C is officially 3.0

[lament dawn]

I would be cautious of the morgana just making the game harder for its team lol

I dont think it does that as is, but probably avoid that lol

[zenith star]

Yeah. It went "oh its a little defender itll be fine" to "its intangible to all but the morgana" to "oh this would ruin module control balancing" so lets just make it the angry spirit thing

[limber sleet]

As a note (I haven't actually read through the stuff, so I apologize if this is actually addressed in the weapon itself - I just like absorbing the vibes of homebrew chats) but a Threat 1 Ordnance weapon is actually entirely unusable without any Threat Extensions. Since Ordnance prevents attacking adjacent targets (well, specifically targets in Engagement).

[burnt egret]

…oh no

Lmao

[zenith star]

Yeah I put in a little clause that it could and was immune to everything proof shields

[burnt egret]

Which license has that one again?

[zenith star]

Stumpp.

[burnt egret]

The everything-proof shield I mean

[limber sleet]

Speaking from experience, I would probably hold off until literally everything else you're currently working on is done, haha. Otherwise you get infinite scope creep. (It's how I ended up with 19 Licenses and 30 Frames, which is just too much to pull together and test.)

[burnt egret]

Y’know the words left my fingers before my brain realized Napoleon

[zenith star]

The madre

[limber sleet]

Ah, okay, good. You managed to avoid the pitfall that 95% of people who want to play with Ordnance Melee run into, haha.

[zenith star]

Yes by conceding its impossible and having to shamefully go "but not special little boy"

[burnt egret]

Damn, my madre? Can’t believe it.

[zenith star]

and then I was annihilated by prepared actions because of course I forgot about those.

[limber sleet]

(It is always funny to see. Just like the people who go "Okay, immune to environmental effects" without looking at what the environmental effects table actually contains.)

[zenith star]

Nobody uses them but to break the game and I don't play with people who have fun doing that so I dont see it much

[zenith star]

I mean I got Quota Filler for that.

[limber sleet]

Tbf, Prepared Actions on Ordnance weapons is just "I have to do this immediately because of Ordnance and then my turn immediately ends because of prepare." It's a supremely action inefficient turn regardless.

[zenith star]

-# seriously why is there always an ignore difficult terrain/environment core Bonus

[limber sleet]

Is there always one?

[zenith star]

A ton have them I noticed it was just funny to me.

[burnt egret]

Damn-near always, or at least frequent enough to make a joke about it.

[lament dawn]

ignoring difficult terrain is a 1 SP system lol

[limber sleet]

Huh, not really a pattern I've noticed. Though, admittedly I've not been as closely attuned to things since releasing Iridia. So I'm sure the commonalities have shifted.

[lament dawn]

well in this case it was a bit more easy to accomplish

[zenith star]

Off the top I think Suldan, Intercorp, G&S, Odeon, Zalweski, Pinchov

[burnt egret]

You mean Pinnacle Industries?

[limber sleet]

Huh.

[zenith star]

Vulcan is the person who has like 40 lcps stuffed into their C/C

[zenith star]

couldn't recall

[limber sleet]

Ah, one of those folks, haha.

[zenith star]

not looking at the directory right now

[burnt egret]

Yeah Pinnacle = PI-OF

[burnt egret]

Damn skippy!

[lament dawn]

one of us

[limber sleet]

I'm always impressed your Comp/Cons don't crash.

[lament dawn]

my comp/con breathes through a fucking tube

[zenith star]

Yeah I remembered the pun not the name

[burnt egret]

My comp/con runs like one of those old tractors you use a shotgun blank to start.

[lament dawn]

to be fair this is like HALF just NPC's

[zenith star]

it would help if a ton didn't randomly have giant white backgrounds or 3k image files for every frame goddamn.

[limber sleet]

All I know is that mine struggled enough with the amount I had in my own homebrew.

[zenith star]

Makes the license page beg for death on loading

[lament dawn]

G&S my bane

[limber sleet]

I tried to use compressed images where I could for mine. There's just, y'know, 30 of them to make up for it. 😅

[zenith star]

I didn't know that had a warning

[limber sleet]

Pretty sure it's new, because a lot of people were randomly running into problems.

Turns out Beef didn't expect people to try and shove in 300 frames!

[lament dawn]

hey speaking of does anyone have the "no image data" image I cant find it

I'm still waiting on the artist I commissioned for my mech art

so it's all just blank rn

[burnt egret]

Usually it just makes the Compendium run like that one time you tried playing Wonderful 101 @zenith star

[ionic sundial]

I'm one of those people. I want to be able to see all my dolls.

[zenith star]

It may be pinned somwhere in here

I vaguely recall looking that up for the Ang

[zenith star]

Hey. It did that for like a month straight and I finally fixed it.

[burnt egret]

Did it involve shooting Kamiya?

[zenith star]

Imagine the rioting if he put a warning on making new pilots.

[zenith star]

Couldnt.

He blocked it.

[lament dawn]

As a DM that utilizes other lancers in the campaign

yeah lol

[lament dawn]

this would kill me

[burnt egret]

damn he's good

[lament dawn]

(this is after a massive purge)

[zenith star]

I may eventually have to compile this sort of thing for that module of mine

But that's after quelling my feature creeping heart and removing the RTS segments. /s

Or forcing people to learn Battlegroup /srs

[lament dawn]

lol

[zenith star]

Sadly one of my playtesters cannot read so its been tough

[lament dawn]

TRUE

@thick skiff

[burnt egret]

yeah you talk about all the stuff you cut, lest we forget the time I practically had to tie you down to prevent you from adding more shit to the beta

[zenith star]

Don't forget B-sides

[burnt egret]

I can read perfectly good! I just choose to ignore some things here and there!

[thick skiff]

uncalled for

[zenith star]

My very normal non-crash out that resulted in rewriting and balancing all of lancer purely because I got annoyed at tracking bug

[zenith star]

yknow.

I will be the better man than I was in the past and not air your dirty rules hallucinating laundry

[zenith star]

I still think its rattling around in here somewhere.

[burnt egret]

he gave Ranger Swallowtail a Heavy Mount and then complained that I wasn't using the frame traits of locking on and repositioning when I could just use the new and improved Anti-Materiel Rifle

[lament dawn]

tracking bug was your thing???

[zenith star]

B-Displacer was my magnum opus.

[lament dawn]

LMAO

[burnt egret]

I've got it if you want me to post it

[zenith star]

why does the anti-invisibilty system need to hit an attack.

[lament dawn]

well it's also HP

[zenith star]

On attack: You Overheat

On Hit: They lose a structure.

[lament dawn]

uhhuh

[burnt egret]

see also: Cannibal Both Barrels

[zenith star]

I was going to joke that you can post it Vulcan because it would show how much I have changed but B-Sides only failed because I was never going to perfect it enough.

[burnt egret]

you complained about Lancer's damage stacking and then added more damage to everything

[zenith star]

and had to keep being talked down from a new thing every week

[zenith star]

Look I never got to the NPCs okay

[burnt egret]

oh that was the fix, got it

[lament dawn]

operator's do 13 energy per shot instead of 7

[burnt egret]

You, God Above All, fixing what Tom and Kai could never lmfao

[lament dawn]

we're becoming DnD 5e with this one

[zenith star]

I meant buffing HP

[zenith star]

yes. It is I. the messiah, come down from the loathsome amish to bless you all with the B-Ramjet

[burnt egret]

yeah they would need a buff to HP but then the other problem I've noticed is that combat just takes a while in general and a fix would to just have less enemies so you would spend less time fighting in one combat and instead have more combats to fight in a given session.

[zenith star]

Yeah. Maybe balance it with equal players so its a tighter game feel

Maybe like

3v3

[burnt egret]

I SWEAR TO GOD

he does this every time

[zenith star]

I love getting you with this joke every time

[burnt egret]

Every time he brings up Mech Bakugan!

[zenith star]

I dont even know how it started

[lament dawn]

Honestly I think the real fix for this is to just be really fast as GM

[burnt egret]

It started with a genuine idea that spiraled into "but what if lol"

[zenith star]

I think I was making a joke that in Tri-M they invented a mini tabletop version of mech combat that was just Lancer but 3v3 and that eventually turned into "lancer bakugan"

[zenith star]

Wrong person to tell it to.

[burnt egret]

I tend to chew the scenery

[lament dawn]

lol

lancer bakugan rules

[burnt egret]

FUCk

[zenith star]

@burnt egret they yearn

[burnt egret]

IT'S SPREADING

[zenith star]

I'm gonna do it Vulcan

I'm going to make Lancer Bakugan.

I'm going full Tom and getting completely sidetracked by a side project that spirals out of control in scope.

[burnt egret]

or you make it a splash with way too much thought put into it a la Goblin With a Fat Ass

[zenith star]

Well first I must establish high quality to make the joke land.

So I gotta work for another 15 years on stuff down to also making a comic

[burnt egret]

I mean, if that's what it takes to get Neon Fists going

[zenith star]

Look I got too many projects in my head aight

[zenith star]

It's Maladaptations now but I gotta keep this chat somewhat focused.

Failing as I am in doing so.

Well, I am stepping away for a bit and then probably writing blurbs whilst listening to disturbingly close fireworks so thank you for the delightful conversations and happy new year.

[lament dawn]

happy new year, love to see the amount of passion you guys have for this, your LCP is sick

(one more thing, I would take a second look at CCF engine lol)

(and dragon's lash in comparison to nanobot whip)

[zenith star]

sigh yeah. I curse certain weapons or systems for being kind of lackluster because then it also blocks an improved version from passing by smoothly since like. Yeah it is powercreep but its powercreep on something I would say could use a boost.

[lament dawn]

nanobot is bit weak for sure, I definitely feel you there

[zenith star]

Same with antimat rifle

Its hard not to creep it

[lament dawn]

to be fair, GMS heavy melee and kin hammer do exist in the same game, so outright creep isn't exactly unheard of but probably dont lol

[zenith star]

But taking talents into consideration, Lash could be a little toned down. Executioner is fantastic even on threat 1 let alone 4

[lament dawn]

I would make it low damage honestly

huge threat low damage

[zenith star]

Its so odd. Its the one outright instance of it base game on a mech that doesn’t even want the thing

[zenith star]

Yup. Focus on Huangs status as a hyper controlling sponge

[lament dawn]

so massive executioners to utilize the on hit and on crit

sounds fun to me

[zenith star]

Also fits the meteor hammer or sash vibes

[lament dawn]

tru

[zenith star]

This is going to be both so much easier and so much harder the more eyes I get on this

[lament dawn]

Yup lol

and then when you see obvious changes you realize that the vast majority of users that download your LCP will never see that update lol

and that first thing that you now realize is not up to snuff in your new eyes is stuck like that for like half the users

just how it is lol

apologies for that cognitohazard if you hadn't thought about it yet

[zenith star]

Dont tell me about it. I am kicking myself for my stupid New Years deadline knowing a ton of people will forever have a blurbless lcp and more importantly can witness old autocon

When like. The deadline was just for the art. I got a bit too swept up in my final art block and the holidays

[lament dawn]

just get on comp/con lol, really it's probably the best way to ensure people see the updates

[zenith star]

Yup. Big reason to get blurbs done as fast as possible

though I suspect the directory requirements are looser than explained

[lament dawn]

it's a trust based system, I would keep yourself pretty strict to them just for the sake of the community

[zenith star]

Considering a ton of projects (with love) often have some sloppy formatting or are like mine, missing a lot of stuff.

Arts the exception. Stuff is hard and expensive so I get why projects miss it

[lament dawn]

I thought that they do like a review of the LCP, turns out they do not, so I would follow their guidelines as tight as possible

[zenith star]

And yeah, I personally am holding myself to meet the written standards

[zenith star]

Dont tell me that my convictions will weaken in the face of extremely easy audience access

[lament dawn]

lmao

they scrutinize it heavily

they interrogate you over it

they tie you to a chair and yell at you

[zenith star]

Eh, blurb writing is progressing smoother than expected for myself so I hope to have it done within two weeks or so

[burnt egret]

Tom himself is gonna break your knees

[zenith star]

Fuck Ill take the interaction I am actually in the middle of nowhere

[zenith star]

Finally a chance to ask what the fuck was up with Alpha OpCal and Tokugawa

[zenith star]

I had friends visit and it took one utterance of “is that gas station just labeled Mart?” For me to realize small towns exist on a spectrum

[limber sleet]

Yeah, it's literally just on the honour system. I suppose if people complained that something's unfinished, Beef might remove something, but I don't think that's ever happened.

[zenith star]

Decided to bust out ol' reliable to ascertain how much of a hack I am.

Quite funny to me how many of these are just Solmon with like, 1 or 2 for Koschei and Stumpp/Hund

[lament dawn]

I require this bingo board

do you have an unmarked version lol

[zenith star]

I think its pinned in the design channel

I got hit with it half the time when I shared stuff there haha

[lament dawn]

lmao

okay I'll look for it there

[zenith star]

I was thinking of a Balor alt thats Size 4 with the Squad movement rules so thatll get me closer to bingo

[lament dawn]

dawg

lol pop off

not saying it's a bad idea at all, definitely interesting

[dull jacinth]

...I cannot for the life of me work out what "Wiggle" is

[lament dawn]

effects that activate upon becoming adjacent

spam movements that ignore engagement

[dull jacinth]

Oooooh

[lament dawn]

wiggle out and in of engagement, spamming the effect

I assume that is what that means

[ionic sundial]

it's things that make you move in and out of the same space repeatedly, basically.

[zenith star]

Its for “move X spaces to activate the effect” and should be “move X in a line or unique spaces”

I do agree with a lot of the squares actually but it often gets incorrectly cited and soured me a bit

[fading lava]

Isn’t GMS gun but better like

Most of the licensed equipment

[burnt egret]

Not in the least

[fading lava]

Not necessarily in straight power but more in use cases

[burnt egret]

You sure do have some equipment that is straight-up better, but a lot are sidegrades or are just plain weirder than GMS.

And then there’s all the bad stuff.

[fading lava]

Stares at mimic gun

[burnt egret]

Stares at Siege Ram

[fading lava]

Yeah

Ram should inherently do damage fr

But uh I was always under the assumption that most licensed equipment wasn’t a direct upgrade but had a wider range of uses and could mesh better with talents

Like combat drill and bullshit damage

[zenith star]

That square is more for “inarguably” better.

Like. I think the Dsas is objectively better than the GMS shotgun, but the GMS shotgun is longer range and not inaccurate so there are situations it functions better than the Dsas.

[fading lava]

Yeah

[zenith star]

Blurb work is going well, all talents, core bonuses, and GMS equipment have been done as well as the two manufacturer spiels. Obviously licenses will take the bulk of the time but a few are already finished or being haphazardly tackled.

[zenith star]

Oh yeah, found the old one I had made before learning about the other.

Gotta see how much of a hack I am to myself.

Damn, I am a hack by my own standards... smh my head...

[zenith star]

should've made it size 4 instead of 3+, even if 3 is rare.

[burnt egret]

Have there been any size fours outside of the one G&S one that was removed and the Tempest NPC?

[zenith star]

Was the Yamato one?

[burnt egret]

The Tempest was either size 3 or 4, can’t remember off the top of my head.

[zenith star]

I imagine it'd be Size 3.

[burnt egret]

Fairly certain that was size 3

All I really remember was “bo-at” and “two Heavy Mounts.”

[zenith star]

Either way I should revise this sometime, I think I have picked up some new stereotypes on "hack" (with love) homebrew.

[zenith star]

I activate core power "Secret of Ono-Michi"

wait you wont get that joke

[burnt egret]

You’re right, I won’t.

[zenith star]

I often am with you

Write blurbs with me.

[burnt egret]

No, out to breakfast rn.

[zenith star]

https://tenor.com/view/dust-baby-funny-waah-disintegrate-gif-1629577919183368563

[zenith star]

Reworking the Beheading Axe.

So it is now still certainly a strong Heavy Melee alternative, but has warning to it and more importantly even when used or more likely broken its highs arent as ridiculous as "wavedash TCB"

Also better balanced around executioner, which like. It really should be.

[lament dawn]

Tempest is 4

[burnt egret]

ah hah!

I was right!

[lament dawn]

I am assuming that you become immobilized from accuse?

not the three characters

[zenith star]

sigh I played around with the wording so much to avoid saying “and word and” that I didn’t catch that. Thank you for justifying this threads creation a handful of times.

Also, I would say about 20-23% of the writing is done blurb wise, and while it’s still early I think a favorite of mine has emerged.

I am an incredibly amateur writer but I think I punched above my weight for a moment for a license.

[lament dawn]

lol I feel that

always trying to make something as incredible as caliban

[zenith star]

It really is the bar.

Individual blurbs may be better as like, a piece or a whole license can tell a better story but “the Space Truckers drop all pretense and remind you of just how tight a race it is sometimes on who of the big 3 is the fucking worst” is the best.

Combined with it being an expansion so it actively tore down a couple of months of flanderization.

[lament dawn]

yeah it is quite hard to strike a balance between like technical talk, like mechanically how the thing functions which can be neat, while giving neat lore bits

[zenith star]

Thats the balance Ive tossed for a bit. Due to not being sure if I will even have a guide within a year or something, I have delegated a lot more world-building than normal to blurbs.

The second draft especially will focus on adding back in just enough techno babble to feel like a comp con entry.

But I just need to get the 1.0 officially out to keep drumming up interest.

I just view the current gap as an obvious consequence of the what? 15 years minimum more professional experience the creators have got on me. I aint going to let a fact of reality depress me, its just something to scale

[lament dawn]

oh yeah lol it is so hard to get something nearly as good as first party stuff

but honestly if like 90% of it is tolerable then 10% is excellent, most people will be fine with that lol

that is good

[zenith star]

It doesnt help my lead writer has abandoned me for only paying him a singular dollar…

Nobody wants to work these days

[lament dawn]

man what the hell

so ungrateful

[burnt egret]

ABANDONED?!

[zenith star]

Holy shit lancer reference

[burnt egret]

I HAVE A JOB

[zenith star]

Yeah its writing I thought.

[burnt egret]

well, a job and I have to spend time finding another, better job because my contract expires in a couple months

[lament dawn]

yeah you do he was paying you to write

[burnt egret]

NO HE WAS NOT

[lament dawn]

clearly he was

[burnt egret]

that dollar has not hit my account yet

[zenith star]

Well you gotta finish the contract first.

[zenith star]

Went and fully calculated precisely how much of the blurbs how been done not counting individual lengths since I cannot predict that and it is sitting at a nice 36%, so I am decently confident in the true 1.0 being out within 2-3 weeks.

[steep terrace]

is there a pdf / google doc version of this I could see?

[zenith star]

#1454687572839235918 message

it is certainly not fully complete and will most likely be out of date even by now and especially by the time true 1.0 is out by the end of January, but this will provide a decent overview of 98% accurate Frames in the project, with updates to filling out the rest possibly occurring in between bouts of blurb writing.

[zenith star]

took some time, talents and core bonuses are in, Nobel and Richard Licenses are fully in, 12 more to go. But that may be in a while.

The frames and Core powers will not have blurbs due to wanting to save some amount of space but the equipment will have blurbs in whenever I want to put them in there, so if you want a sneak peak at first draft blurbs, have at it.

[zenith star]

Halfway point on the flavor text has been achieved.

[zenith star]

No wonder I was tired of brainstorming invade options, I literally put more into Tri-M than the base game actually had.

Actually, its tied if we count the three from Hacker 2. Darn.

[zenith star]

All that is left is Sage-Wisemann's blurbs alongside another mechanical once over for clarifications and last minute changes and 1.0 will be out! Putting that probably sometime before the 21st.

[dim zodiac]

oh hey right!!! i forgot to actually follow the thread here despite us interacting on bsky

such a cool field guide

so excited to see where it goes

still need to look deeper witht he spouse @loud valve at some point

[zenith star]

Well youre just in time, the true 1.0 lcp will probably be ready by the 20th. Thanks for stopping in!

[zenith star]

I will admit. I have kept a large majority of the blurbs more in line with what is normal for Lancer, even including HORUS.

Some of the SW//MG licenses are getting funky.

[zenith star]

Blurbs. Finished.

Now, barring writing up a proper description, any major edits to the writing my trusty once a day editor suggests, and redesigning the logos + probably poster for now. The true 1.0 will soon release.

[dull jacinth]

I'm curious, is there intended to be a PDF with lore about the Tri-M system at some point?

[zenith star]

Yes.

[dull jacinth]

Excellent. Looking forward to it

[zenith star]

It may be a little bit, especially considering I’m planning on doing all the art for it myself as well but it will be worked on alongside the campaign project.

[dull jacinth]

Well, good things take time

Purely out of self interest and making a long rim maps for my own campaign, would you say tri-m is closer to Rao Co or the Dawnline shore?

[zenith star]

Probably Rao Co, but still rather isolated. A big portion of its lore is that it went undiscovered for an extremely long time due to an internal embargo on any information getting out about the system because the first encounter with outside space for them after millennia was the new federation attempting to annihilate them.

Honestly, I gotta figure that out for myself.

I got the internals of the system down quite nicely, and a decent timeline, but actively fitting it into the lore of everything is the last step.

[burnt egret]

okay, gonna toot my horn on behalf of the "team" as it were. there are some bits that might need a bit more thinking, at least with regard to the actual placement of Tri-Matron and where it is within the wider Union stretch of space

but all the shit that isn't that one particular bit?

We (Logez) are fuckin cookin

like damn

I had to wrangle some bits here and there, but you folks aren't ready

[zenith star]

I will admit. I probably spent two years thinking “the long rim” was synonymous with the entire outer ring and despite learning to the contrary that brain worm stayed

[past mural]

Looks absolutely stylish however i got ome question, got any of them pdfs available my good fellow?

[burnt egret]

we have a google doc

whether or not it's fully up-to-date with the changes we made today, I'm not sure

[zenith star]

It’s not fully updated but it gets the gist across.

It has all the frames currently and about 40% of the rest of the stuff, should be filled out soon by Sundays end most likely.

As for a pdf. I should probably expedite the process. As an “lcp first” kind of peruser I think my bias is showing with the ordering here.

[past mural]

Perhaps lmao, i am one of those sickos that prefers pdfs to lcps.

[zenith star]

This seems to be majority of the more talkative ones at least and I feel foolish.

[past mural]

Eh it's all cool personally, I am more then willing to wait for proper pdfs.

[zenith star]

It feels weird to not really @ anybody with this but there is no decent middle ground really.

The 1.0 release is officially out! You can acquire it at the link above or right here.

https://logez.itch.io/puddlestompers-guide

Do note that if you have one of the betas the author has changed and therefore you should delete the beta before implementing 1.0 so as to not cause a doubling effect.

[zenith star]

We are now officially in the comp/con LCP directory. PDF development is also underway.

[burnt egret]

RAAAAAAAAH LET’S FUCKIN GOOOOO!!!

[halcyon bison]

NICE

[lament dawn]

massive

[burnt egret]

Crazy seeing my name on there like that.

[zenith star]

Yeah I was very surprised when you told me your name wasn’t actually Vulcan D. 64

[burnt egret]

please, that was my father's name

[zenith star]

Mr. 64 sounds like a weirdly serious documentary title about the break up of the Disc Drive Sony deal

[burnt egret]

Oh damn we gotta keep this up.

Quick! @zenith star post WIPs!

At least hints of WIPs!

[zenith star]

Is that something people do often? I feel like that would fit more with the campaign, it’s more tactile.

But okay.

I’ll find some stuff.

[lament dawn]

are you supposed to do that

[zenith star]

I think I have learned over and over recently there really isn’t a standard that can be followed

But I will probably share art pieces or page snippets I think can stand on their own as I finish them.

[lament dawn]

I should probably start doing that as well

[burnt egret]

Just think! This could make you a ✨trendsetter!✨

[ionic sundial]

you considered submitting something to Mechanic Brewery?

(addressed to OP)

[burnt egret]

I certainly have, it’s a question of both a) “how do” and b) “when does dragon plan on making another one of those?”

(I’m part of the team)

[ionic sundial]

oh lmao sorry

[burnt egret]

No worries lol

[ionic sundial]

A: You need at least a document on the frame, like a PDF

B: Literally now. Like, right now.
https://discordapp.com/channels/426286410496999425/1466615504301981903

[burnt egret]

Well shit.

Uhhhhhh @zenith star you can throw one of the frames from the google doc into a PDF and submit it, right?

We’ve got plenty of options!

Seeing as we have to post art for it, my personal nomination would be either the Seimei or the Solomon, but we could also go Stumpp/Hund for the double-whammy

Or each and every one of us could go in and shill a different frame! Cast a wide net, if you will.

[zenith star]

Oh, well a nice stroke of luck.

[zenith star]

Absolutely not. Maybe the Solomon but the Seimei being the first introduction to the project would just scare people too easily.

I may need to give it some thought, combined with what Art do I want to show off.

Honestly I may send in the Richard, Gast Config is sure to draw some attention, it’s probably the cleanest design out of the whole project, and people adore their big dumb superheavies.

You could certainly shill the Solomon or S/H for me Vulcan but I’d rather not come across as too pushy by like, coordinating some mass push even if I know I could get like guaranteed 7 submissions or something just from collaborators.

[zenith star]

I mean a major goal by the end of this which you know already is to be a quite substantially large and polished singular project connected to the subsequently also large and polished campaign module, so who knows. Maybe I can be a Suldan or an Intercorp if I keep at it.

[burnt egret]

Listen, any shilling is good shilling so long as it ain’t Curt Schilling.

Richard is definitely a good pick, I figured you want to have SW//MG headline considering they’re what you put the most weird shit into.

Paixhans is definitely my choice for an alt-frame tho. Don’t have to worry about submission rules with the Apollo twins, and everyone loves MF Boom.

[zenith star]

Why do I feel like you have said this sentence a lot

[burnt egret]

Because any vaguely dad-ish platitude sounds natural coming from me, according to you.

[zenith star]

They do.

Several people are saying it

[burnt egret]

You and Languard don’t count

[zenith star]

I can easily source more.

[zenith star]

It’s probably the safest of the alts.

Guad is still a bit complicated with the pseudo-efficient core power. And the other 4 got some quirks to them each but the Paixhans is a very honest design.

I’ll have to come up with a “danger to new players” scale as a bit and slap a numerical sticker on every mechs art.

On one end is probably the Nobel or Sherpa, and on the other sits like half of SW//MG and the Koschei

[burnt egret]

Pull up the GGST star system

[zenith star]

Mmm.

My favorite

5/5 STARS

-# of simplicity!

[burnt egret]

Is it good? Is it bad? Who knows!

[zenith star]

“So so on one end this mech just wants you and your target to be in the danger zone when you hack them and on this other end here we have the doohickeymabob with 6 mounts that vomits d6s up periodically that smell vaguely of sulfur and pine needles.”

[zenith star]

Darn it.

I have found a singular semi-typo I missed in the lcp.

10 bucks to anybody that can point it out to me.

[burnt egret]

https://tenor.com/view/quagsire-pokemon-wooper-huh-huhh-gif-10333941026352545707

[zenith star]

You aren't allowed

[burnt egret]

aw beans

[zenith star]

You can see my patch notes in the docs on what to change

It's incredibly minor so I can wait to have the pdf out to fix that.

[burnt egret]

The poll is up! Go! Go! Go!

Also go to the Mechanic Brewery thread and read the other frames and licenses that were put in there!

Holy shit there's a lot of them

but some are pretty killer!

[zenith star]

I’ll put my votes in soon.

[zenith star]

I'm pretty much half way done with the line art for the cover art of the pdf, so I feel like sharing some WIP

[crisp moss]

peak names

[burnt egret]

See this is the kind of shit I’m talking about.

I was brought on to be a writer/editor, but like

What is there to improve?

It’s simply peak

[crisp moss]

this is broken af btw

reloading

every mech is now the stort

[zenith star]

I gotta try it on a build truly dedicated to breaking it. But core bonuses are weird in that so many are already broken it’s kind of hard to overcome the raw stats of Reinforced, Opcal, or Heatfall.

[crisp moss]

my monitor is fucking huge

[zenith star]

AAAA does that no matter the resolution.

I think it adds to the flavor

[crisp moss]

seems familar

[burnt egret]

-# I wrote the flavor for that one myself!

[crisp moss]

also how did you playtest the seimei

[zenith star]

Asking a friend every possible way they could conceivably break it (they are particularly good in spotting mean combos). Running a simulation game solo attempting to be a jerk to myself with it, and then refining it to exclude the uber powerful unintended play patterns

It needs a good amount of “true” play testing for me to be sure of it but for now I have negated every “mean” play pattern possibility.

[lament dawn]

lol I have already told them that their core bonuses are busted

[crisp moss]

i feel like a gm could just turn your ability to play off but if you take anything that even soft forces enemies onto you will let you stun fest all over the place

[lament dawn]

they seem to not care which is fair enough

[crisp moss]

compcon HATES long names

[crisp moss]

based

[zenith star]

And it’s true counter play remains the ever simple “explode it with extreme prejudice” which is very cathartic as a GM

[lament dawn]

how does one explode the seimei?

what if it like

has hull 6

if you dont explode it it now gets a determinsitic stun on you

[dull jacinth]

Honestly that looks better than it "fitting"

[zenith star]

I care when the game breaking stuff is unintended like prepared actions breaking beheading axe and Eyes1-4

[crisp moss]

dont worry about it

[zenith star]

So 21 HP with 7 evasion, 0 armor, and probably not a ton of durability systems if it’s still LL3? That’s rather squishy in my experience against a GM fueled by wishing to meet your nonsense head on.

[crisp moss]

ive had people tell me to change it

[zenith star]

I Agree

[crisp moss]

i made it longer

[zenith star]

Excellent.

[lament dawn]

fighting T1's, 21 HP is plenty of bulk

you are not exploding it

and that means you arent attacking it

because it will now stun you guaranteed from anywhere

[lament dawn]

it can also prepare its funny action

for when it gets attacked

so even at T3, that operator is only getting one shot on you before becoming stunned

[crisp moss]

TWO TURN STUN!!!!!

[zenith star]

The other portion of that is that like, you don’t gotta hit the Seimei. It quite literally is pure support.

[lament dawn]

two turn stun

yes

[zenith star]

Damn prepared action.

[crisp moss]

also stun making evasion 5 is horrific

so no matter the evasion or saves

[lament dawn]

so ye seimei is completely unkillable

[crisp moss]

yeah basically

but you know what

based

[lament dawn]

I do believe he knows that lol

[zenith star]

I’m genuinely not super worried about it. A stupid hard to deal with purely pacifist support isn’t the worst thing.

[lament dawn]

well

fair enough

[crisp moss]

if it did anything other than stun id agree

[zenith star]

But, maybe during the playtesting with me not playing both sides a mentality shift will reveal a big flaw.

[crisp moss]

you play both sides>

[zenith star]

I’ve planned a few replacements if it’s too much to allow

[lament dawn]

I do believe playing both sides is a deeply dubious testing method

[crisp moss]

while that is true im more concerned by this

should i be scared

[zenith star]

Yeah I mentioned that. It’s been very hard to have any consistent playtesting available. So for now I have elected to trim the possibilities for game balance shattering combos or features to exist (without warning) and tried to work within a very rough year.

[lament dawn]

just find some unemployed friends and force them to test ur LCP by giving them the licenses for free during ur campaign

[zenith star]

He likes to take credit for getting his friends into lancer when it would’ve happened with or without him in my and a few close friends case.

[lament dawn]

unemployed is optional

but convenient

[zenith star]

Sadly? None of my lancer friends are unemployed.

[crisp moss]

the lancer game recuting channel works great

[lament dawn]

unemployed is optional

[lament dawn]

ok to be fair most lancer players are really bad at the game and will not provide useful data

nothing wrong with that

some people just like to rp lol

[zenith star]

I’ve recovered enough to start branching out more. I wasn’t kidding when I mentioned last year was bad for me throughout the entire creative process and I am soon starting open playtesting.

[lament dawn]

but like if you give a new player an empakaii and they find it weak, that is not really telling of the empakaii

[crisp moss]

good luck with that then

[burnt egret]

They may have gotten into Lancer without my help, but it never would have happened when it did had I not started showing friends outside of the players of the one revolver campaign we had at that point.

[lament dawn]

I may be able to convince my players to playtest some of your stuff

[burnt egret]

Also yes, you should be scared.

[lament dawn]

we just like playing lancer, and they're pretty good at playtesting

[zenith star]

It may not be necessary but I appreciate it and will keep it in mind.

[zenith star]

I will be honest. How many can you say you specifically are the reason of the people we have hung out with in person.

Cause it’s probably like 3 in that case.

I’m not diminishing your accomplishments, I have heard you did kill a leviathan in one shot, but I just want a count.

[burnt egret]

3 in person and at least another four more

And those are the people I’ve actively played with for an extended period of time.

[crisp moss]

ill ask some of the people who have worked with me for playtesting

although, they can be

on the harher side

[zenith star]

It’s only extended cause you have to keep canceling sessions

[crisp moss]

damn

[zenith star]

I have @plucky prism . I am used to harsh.

[lament dawn]

this is real playtesting

[crisp moss]

i have been called a fucking idiot very often

although i dought you face that

doubt

[lament dawn]

they dont do personal attacks they just say things like "this mech/idea boring and I have absolutely no interest in playing it"

which can be useful

or it means that they have bad taste in mechs could go either way

[zenith star]

I have a philosophy for playtesting when I can do it that there are three important audiences to test.

Power gamers, general audiences, and people that don’t read their spells.

Power gamers are easy, they will try to kill you, and are good for determining balance, this is Languard, General audiences are good for testing vibes of stuff, what people find “cool” or gravitate towards. And people that don’t read their spells are good for testing if you can actually understand the damn rules of something by only reading it once and forgetting immediately. This is Vulc.

[crisp moss]

got a lot of them

also the people that dont read their speels

[zenith star]

Yeah okay so I am perfectly primed to handle those types.

[crisp moss]

that does remind me i have mechs to unborning

unboring

[lament dawn]

especially when they are wrong

the mech that can literally no clip and go out of bounds rules stfu

[zenith star]

I feel like I’m too proud of a lot of my stuff that I would just have a hard time assuming a mech is boring if told and is more to taste unless like, everybody tells me so.

[crisp moss]

to be fair, i do make boring mechs

[lament dawn]

lancer is a fan of those

[zenith star]

I mean, what’s boring mean for frames and licenses? Simple? Clean rules? Lack of absolute nonsense and/or new keywords that brick C/C?

Those ain’t sins

[lament dawn]

with snoozefests like the genghis in the game

[zenith star]

Oh no you’ve activated him

[crisp moss]

ive been a balance first type of designer which does have

[lament dawn]

dying on this hill

[crisp moss]

downsides

[lament dawn]

same

[crisp moss]

what do you make

[burnt egret]

https://tenor.com/view/snorlax-sleep-pokemon-gif-10677184

[lament dawn]

lots of mechs get reigned in from their cool ideas and become boring

[burnt egret]

Genghis is rad even when it sucks.

[crisp moss]

ghengis is boring

[zenith star]

Freistride correct?

[crisp moss]

but flame throws arent

[lament dawn]

(btw speaking on this, purple thorn could use a buff)

[burnt egret]

Yes, and it also has a flamethrower.

[crisp moss]

blinkbolts or the frame

[lament dawn]

frame

[burnt egret]

The frame itself does nothing special, I agree.

[lament dawn]

frame doesnt really do much damage and it also doesnt do anything else

aux artillery is fun

[crisp moss]

it already does bonus damage, attacks, and movement, what more does it need

[lament dawn]

but ye it needs some help I think

[zenith star]

Vulc here had one game where he took like no damage the entire time due to 4 armor and simply cannot stop chasing that high

I think I may be an outlier on balance discussions.

[lament dawn]

I agree

[zenith star]

Because I do believe in making balanced things. But my definition is “is this better to take than just shermanizing”

I skew towards high end power because I gotta justify not going workhorse equipment

And most of it I think it defensible. Outside of the mentioned exceptions, which even then are more “weird” and require different counterplay than simple “big tank, stop jamming me, or the melee one”

[lament dawn]

so it's not like extremely weak, but it does low damage for an artillery, and the movement is nice but like, that's all it gets out of it

whoops

[crisp moss]

adding soot

but it could use an extra trait for sure, something small probably

probably an on crit

[zenith star]

I can certainly say that like. Nothing in this lcp is a first draft. It has all been simulated or two handed or (annoyingly rarely) actually played in a few games and the big outliers have been tamped down and the weaklings brought up. I don’t believe at this point anything in it is generically OP or completely outclassed and that is fine for me.

-# But I fear the day somebody figures out an optimized Solomon.

[lament dawn]

it starts doing damage when it can overwatch to get a gunslinger die pop on rounds it has no right to, which is true and real, but like, now we kinda are just forced to take gunslinger

[zenith star]

Feel like this is just a symptom of the talents system needing like, double the weapon specific talents.

It’s why making CQBs is so goddamn hard.

[lament dawn]

ok so to be true I make some rather deranged nonsense

however, it is usually not particularly busted

[zenith star]

Mods. Post the Zweihander trait

[lament dawn]

the main melee?

[zenith star]

Damnit I forgot the name

[lament dawn]

zeilinger

lol

[lament dawn]

really getting my use out of this meme

[lament dawn]

this does silly nonsense with orator and field analyst

[crisp moss]

im not reading that

[lament dawn]

but you are actively harming ur teams turn order authority by playing the mech

[lament dawn]

dont lol

zeilinger is an exception

[zenith star]

I really thought I had peaked with homebrew nonsense with the Stumpp/Hund being a fully functional, non-C/C altering Werefolf mech and you sent this shit into my thread within the week.

[lament dawn]

zeilinger is the closest I could get to breaking the game while still barely actually affecting the paradigm of the game

genuinely sunzi does more to change the game than zeilinger

[zenith star]

Boutta make a 2 Zeilinger 2 Amber Phantom comp and get arrested for tRPG aggravated assault

[lament dawn]

listen OK this is barely different than just having 4 amber phantoms

because the zeilinger has to blow a quick on popping its active

[crisp moss]

sunzi busted? fork found in kitchen

[lament dawn]

lol true

but ye my point is I am very balance first, the zeilinger is deranged in a way that is only even beneficial to you if you play and build it carefully

[zenith star]

Rules as written it cannot fall.

There is a part of the erratas that clarify falling as an involuntary movement for purposes like overwatch and other things. So rules as written the Sunzi cannot fall.

[lament dawn]

but is gravity a character

lol if the sunzi jumps off a cliff it absolutely falls

if someone shoves it, that is questionable

but it does say other characters

jumping off a cliff is sunzi induced

[zenith star]

What if you are Puppeted Systemed?

[lament dawn]

then yes that is questionable

[zenith star]

Because it counts as voluntary, but the falling is caused by another character

Truly important discourse that will surely affect many a game.

I must now make a youtube short about this.

[crisp moss]

i have been tempted to get on youtube, there is a massive lack of lancer content

but i would be WAY too much work and im lazy

[lament dawn]

anchor, you are immune to puppet systems

whoops

[crisp moss]

and i dont have much to say

[crisp moss]

anchor my beloved

[zenith star]

I would love to try and direct some of my sporadically vectored passions into making videos about many things. But my motivation is randomly generated each day and often cannot afford that tax amongst working on all of these projects.

[crisp moss]

yep

[zenith star]

It's bad sometimes.

[crisp moss]

yep

[zenith star]

I think the longest I went without finishing an art piece for tri-M was like, 2 months and then I did like 4 in two weeks.

[lament dawn]

lancer is hard to make content on

[zenith star]

Yeah the effort is rather massively divided.

[lament dawn]

I have considered it too, but my channel is a plane channel so like no one would watch

[crisp moss]

if i made art id be dead in the water and the sixth voice would not have happened

[zenith star]

I guess unless you commission.

[crisp moss]

i would watch lancer

[lament dawn]

yeah but like my opinions are right

and odds are yours probably arent

so like my videos would alienate you

[crisp moss]

idk fuck you

[lament dawn]

my buddies and I made a tier list based upon mech strenght

and we are 100% objectively correct, but youtube lancer enjoyes arent ready for it

[crisp moss]

oh god

[zenith star]

Post it.

[crisp moss]

its 100% dogshit

lemme see it

[zenith star]

I gotta farm engagement in here.

[crisp moss]

i have ONE mech that i will judge it by

[zenith star]

I think my lodestone balance mech is the Nelson.

[crisp moss]

what would you rate it?

mine is emperor

[zenith star]

Perfect center honestly.

[crisp moss]

you can tell who has never played with an emperor

[zenith star]

The Iskander is how I determine how much of a powergamer the person is.

[crisp moss]

i got a friend whos favorite mech is the iskander

or the alt

[lament dawn]

S tier is insane, dont need to explain what S tier means
A tier is a mech that does something very well, and that thing it does is good and not easily stopped
B tier is a mech that does soemthing well, but that thing is either sometimes outclassed or somewhat easily stopped
C tier is a mech that does something, but kinda just does it worse than other mechs
explodes is not a true D tier, it is really just saying we dont think manticore deserves unstable system

[zenith star]

specifically, a truly rotten power gamer that will sacrifice all obvious play patterns and uh, variety fun for victory

[crisp moss]

heca being S teir is stupid

its dogshit

[lament dawn]

ushabti hide

that's it

that's all it does

[crisp moss]

not sure gimmick strategies count

[lament dawn]

mostly there to troll my friend who plays hecha

well

[zenith star]

howd you get an ushabti onto a heca

[lament dawn]

it's strong and not easily stopped by enemies lol

[crisp moss]

this is why we need banded tierlists

[lament dawn]

the trait

the ushabti but for hiding

the "im gonna hide and ur gonna like it"

[crisp moss]

nelson being c is crazy honestly

why is it so low

its not worse than the Atlas

[lament dawn]

worst bonus d6 in the game

skirmisher is good

[zenith star]

Oh I never noticed they changed razor swarm

[crisp moss]

how???????

im boosting like every turn

[zenith star]

Its beta version you could hack it I remember

[lament dawn]

position urself better IG

why woudl you be doing that

[zenith star]

Okay not meming though where would you put the manticore?

[crisp moss]

because the dm in that game makes us move

objectives

[zenith star]

I think Manti is A just by stats and passives alone.

[lament dawn]

it's a heavy mounter with bonus damage and a NUTS active , if it werent for unstable system prolly in A

[crisp moss]

enemy team comps that just do objectives are monsterous

[lament dawn]

just be faster or have a teamate that helps you like a sunzi

[crisp moss]

i am one of 3 players and im the only one doing anything

like ever

[lament dawn]

core book maps arent big enough to justify boost spamming unless ur throwing

[zenith star]

Possibly horrific Death is a small price to pay for invalidating a third of the NPC strikers.

[lament dawn]

well so then ur opinion is skewed lol

if u have to be omnipresent and carry then yeah boosting is probably good for u

[crisp moss]

true, but ive dmd for nelsons who also boost a bunch

what else you gonna do? barage? maybe

but movement is always useful

[zenith star]

My next big project I am working on beside the PDF is a campaign module and a BIG focus is going to be on actually interesting objectives. Pulling on my RTS love to really make some in depth stuff.

[crisp moss]

it is map and dm dependent too

[lament dawn]

at low LL's, yeah that's about ur only other option

[crisp moss]

having objectives that require a lot of work to put in

[lament dawn]

at high LL's, one of the many other insane quicks in the game

[crisp moss]

changes the whole feel of the game

[zenith star]

Its why I put the Nelson dead center, I can't make any big arguments for it being horrible but it is outclassed by most d6 passives

It's stats are okay and it has the "in IPSN buff"

[lament dawn]

I do believe it is in every way worse than amber phantom at its job

like ok

yes you want to boost

the amber phantom can like, also boost

and just do what nelson does

[crisp moss]

okay that is true

amber phantom is just free damage

100% of the time

[zenith star]

I count everything KTB and beyond as kind of powercreep. I still like the stuff. But its powercreep.

[lament dawn]

I mean

a lot of core book mechs remain our our A tier

blackbeard is really vulnerable but ultimately the motherfucker with 1 armor 12 HP, a heavy mount that is grappling you from range 5 remains quite scary

[crisp moss]

also stort not S teir is

crazy

[lament dawn]

OH OLD LIST

WHOOPS

iskander and stort should be S

[crisp moss]

stort is

stort

[lament dawn]

stort does the most fucking damage you will ever see

[crisp moss]

thank you stort, very cool

[lament dawn]

but yeah, our list is actually much more correct than you hard originally expected Im sure

[zenith star]

Oh certainly, but even in your own list their is nothing KTB and beyond that is in B or below.

[lament dawn]

as it is 100% correct

barring the errors because its an old screenshot

[zenith star]

Wrong, you haven't accounted for my bad luck.

[lament dawn]

I and my freinds will die on the "nelson is bad" hill

skirmisher is good

but it's just like