#PuddleStompers Guide to the Tri-M System

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

zenith star
#

Come to rest in the Crucible of Stars? Here, hide away from the rest of the galaxy within one of the most miraculous balances physics has ever struck.

Howdy, this is an ongoing project I have been working on pretty steadily since 2024, this .lcp is the first major part of a far grander project. Ultimately, that goal is a fleshed out campaign within the Tri-Matron system. This guide, being the first step, is my main focus for now and will be so for the coming months.

As of right now this guide currently has:

  • A new GMS frame
  • 14 Original licenses split between 2 manufacturers
  • 7 alt frames
  • 12 Core Bonuses
  • and 8 Talents

I don't wish to bloat this introduction, so I will cut the rest of this short, you can find the 1.0 Beta for the project here: https://logez.itch.io/puddlestompers-guide

-# As of right now, it has full art for all added non-GMS frames, and as of 12/27 full flavor text has not been implemented but is the first update being worked right after this. I will also be expanding upon Tri-M, the two manufacturers Safety Obstruction-Solutions and Sage-Wisemann // Munitions Grant, as well as the individual frames and licenses themselves in the coming days.

#

I will be fulfilling that promise of expositing tomorrow, it has been a long day of cobbling all of this together as well as finishing up the Aldrin/Armstrong and night calls.

burnt egret
#

Wow! I love to engage in grassroots movements!

#

(Logez and I are friends irl btw)

zenith star
#

Woaw a real customer.

burnt egret
#

(I'm also writing for this project)

zenith star
ionic sundial
#

oh this is cool

#

I'll check it out in the morning

zenith star
#

I’ll respond in the morning.

ionic sundial
#

First impressions:
-I love the art no notes 10/10
-The altframe for Iskandar is not in the lcp so I can't say much about that one.
-When you said that SW//MG pushed the game to its limits, boy howdy you were not kidding, I didn't read the description for them on the itch.io page so opening up Solomon's profile was a flashbang and a half, and then it kept going with every subsequent frame.
-By comparison S0-S feels kinda bland (unavoidable when the other manufacturer is entirely homebtew crimes tbh)

zenith star
# ionic sundial First impressions: -I love the art no notes 10/10 -The altframe for Iskandar is ...
  • Yeah the Solomon was the second frame conceived for the project back in 2023 when I learned what the upper limit on mounts comp/con would allow actually was.

  • Thank you for reminding me to take the Darius off of the itchio page, I was having trouble justifying it as an Iskander alt and eventually put it on the backburner for the 2.0 version as a full HA license to go along with the "One full license and alt for the big 4 and a new license for SOS and SWMG" plans for that.

  • SOS is definitely the "Good honest homebrew" portion of the package, its mostly to expand upon what I saw as a few missing niches in the base licenses or make some decently more complicated versions of some playstyles I saw as Lancer sort of having not fully explored yet (healer, Overshield, an actually defensive striker)

  • thank you for the compliments on the art, I will be updating some of the obviously lower fidelity pieces in 2026 as we work, mainly the ones I made in the spring (Calyptra, Baba, Curie, Huang mainly)

frigid lake
#

Would definitely love to see a playtest for this one day

burnt egret
#

i mean, it's technically already out

#

you can use the frames

#

unless you mean Logez running a session with the Tri-M stuff for people to join

zenith star
halcyon bison
#

truly horrifying stuff, excellent show all round. the new 'It's Technophile ... But Not' talent was particularly terrifying! I also really like what I can see of the art - but since the frame-by-frame images are hosted on Imgur, I can't access them in the UK. Would it be possible to upload good quality ones here, with an indication of which is which frame? Thanks!

dull jacinth
zenith star
#

Most likely

-# oh god how did it go off the top of my head

“An Affectatious Affectationem Affectare”

zenith star
dull jacinth
zenith star
placid garden
#

Quick question, how does the Koschei interact with Briareos Frame? The frame trait says it cant take structure damage from other characters, thus the downside to BF wont activate (0 structure 0HP) Or am I looking at this wrong and missing something that'd prevent this combo from being good?

zenith star
# placid garden Quick question, how does the Koschei interact with Briareos Frame? The frame tra...

Damn it. A crack has been found. Both I and my resident crazy person friend who can normally spot stuff like that wrote off Briareos frame so hard because I legitimately over the course of the 6 Lancer campaigns I have been in have never seen a player hit 1 Structure that I completely forgot about it in my sweep to check for anything that automatically breaks the Koschei.

Genuinely though. I think its fine. That is minimum 5 LLs for a combo that is most likely just going to offset the constant Exposure it exists in.
The Koschei is one of the few "I got to playtest the HELL out of this thing" frames and I will make sure to check out if that actually is to much. I feel a little okay with a mech being very strong with a Core Bonus over a single piece of gear because that still allows for build diversity in what licenses to go for within IPS-N rather than just Shermanizing or something.

-# I mostly don't want to add another clause to the thing because sunk cost has set in on its design and if I need to put it "the Koschei cannot gain resistance to damage" I think that would be admitting defeat.

placid garden
#

in addition; systems, traits and core bonuses that trigger off structure wont work on the koschei? Things like The Lesson of Transubstantiation or Armament Redundancy wont work or trigger its traits right?

zenith star
#

Yeah, but I see that as like saying Ranged weapons won't work on a Sekhmet or Enkidu build as well, you just factor in the Frames inherent biases in "stuff" it works well with.

Although Armament redundancy would work because it still functions like you having had rolled a system trauma.

placid garden
#

Ah, I though since it had the Indestructible tag it wouldnt work

zenith star
#

Nah, it isn't the redundancy being destroyed it simply has the effect of ignoring a weapon destruction outcome of system trauma. Why doesn't it just become destroyed instead... who knows. Something probably came up in playtesting that revealed it would be easier to go with this effect.

placid garden
#

Ok, cool. I can already see a maybe viable build stuffed full of 1 SP systems and rank 3 engineer.

#

actually, got a build for the Koschei already. Got nothing better to do right now. What do you think? The name generator on the first roll gave me the perfect name for it "Amen to Nothingness"

#

-- HORUS Koschei @ LL6 -- (MK II)
[ LICENSES ]
IPS-N Blackbeard 2, HORUS Lich 2, IPS-N Tortuga 1, IPS-N Kidd 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Briareos Frame, Improved Armament
[ TALENTS ]
Engineer 3, Duelist 2, Heroic 2, Executioner 1, Vanguard 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
STRUCTURE:1 HP:15 ARMOR:0
STRESS:1 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:2
TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:8 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: Prototype Weapon III
FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
FLEX MOUNT: Chain Axe
HEAVY MOUNT: Nanocarbon Sword
[ SYSTEMS ]
Unhinge Chronology, PEBCAC, Wandering Nightmare, Wandering Nightmare, Wandering Nightmare, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy

zenith star
#

I like the idea of Engineer so you guaranteed have a weapon no matter how beaten you are.

Seeing a build pit in front of me and running some numbers in my head, yeah. I think it is in line with most “tanky” striker/defender style play, its a bit hard to feel out through mental simulations alone but a LL6 tank with roughly 26-28 HP (since you round up on resistance it is slightly less than simply doubling the HP value if you assume permanent resistance) and 0 armor starting out with 8 Heat Cap that essentially always rolls 1 on overheating and can never roll a lucky 6 in structure checks doesn’t sound like its punching above its weight.

Having naturally on average 6-8 less HP base and not taking reinforced frame nor sloped plating makes it fall in line with other defender builds bulk wise.

You just have added flavor and a different mentality since played normally, you truly are “unkillable” but can be rendered essentially moot with enough fire power. Which. Basically is how most 3 Armor builds or 40 HP builds sound anyways.

zenith star
#

I feel very satisfied in saying I think the Koschei has “build potential” which is something not guaranteed for most alts since even some base game ones pigeonhole themselves quite hard.

#

I don’t know, my aforementioned “game break finder” @plucky prism has been a big help in troubleshooting the Koschei. It wouldn’t be as “functional” as it is without them.

placid garden
#

Yeah, i somewhat changed the build; Blackbeard to 2, Tortuga to 1 for DSAS, dropped Stormbringer for Vanguard 1, and dropped Skirmisher for heroic 2 for better durability. No more longer range (save for engi 3) but it does have the base speed to get to targets. Would dropping Lich 3 for Kidd 1 be better? Replace Didymos and Stay with PEBCAC and Unhinge?

delicate gale
#

Figured I should join this server for this lmao

burnt egret
#

"resident crazy person" is way funnier

#

we all need one of those

zenith star
#

They told me they would be officially more included in the project (despite their name already being on it) so I figured it could use more professionalism.

burnt egret
#

professional my ass, Tom drew a caliban pilot's tits to demonstrate how the suit fit together

#

we can include it as a secondary title to their actual position

zenith star
delicate gale
#

Wait huh

zenith star
zenith star
delicate gale
#

OHHH

zenith star
#

They’re all you

placid garden
#

In an effort to not spam the chat with the same build posts, i'll edit the original post to the updated build. As to what you said, yeah the Chei definitely has "build potential" I can see a fairly annoyingly tanky support sniper build. The normal Lich has always stumped me on how to build it, seemingly too complicated for to make a decent build for it. The Chei is one of the few Lich alt frames that have similar para-casual time shenanigans but not like a brick wall to build with (looking at you Senespada) The art of the mech is very much the cherry on top

zenith star
#

The art is I think the 6th??? one I did back in oh god April and its one that really deserves my vastly improved skills now. Though the first half of them I did need retouching or fully new art now IMO.

zenith star
#

So I figured an Alt for it should invoke those same feelings but be more applicable to actual lancer combat.

#

-# also dammit the curse of a good melee mech makes for a better sniper strikes again.

placid garden
#

Thats old art? Can't wait to see what you do with it. Would you say the Raleigh has that same curse too? CPR Raleigh says hi

zenith star
#

I think the cowboy aesthetic is overpowering on the raleigh even if I have seen sniper builds used on it

#

But like. Tokugawa is one of the best sniping mechs in the game and that thing has the enkidu as an alt.

placid garden
#

oh yeah, almost forgot about the Sniper Toku. gotta love displacer or fusion rifle on it

zenith star
#

Oh god I didn’t even consider 25 Range Displacer.

placid garden
#

I think of my theoretical builds for Displacer Toku was called "Solar Snapshot" very fitting name

zenith star
#

Can you mod the displacer? If so Nanocomp on that thing and bonus range would be terrifying from an enemy perspective.

#

“So hows the war going for you guys”

Shooumpt

placid garden
#

I believe you can, though i can't remember if that build had enough sp or levels to get balor 2

zenith star
#

Uh… Toku 2, Nap 3, Monarch 2, Balor 2… Yeah you can get there.

#

It wont be good at that level

#

But fun conceptually

#

Eh, LL9 is probably still able to handle some meme builds but it IS the cut off point in my eyes

placid garden
#

Gotta love a heat seeking blackhole gun

zenith star
#

Yeah I operate off of every space in lancer being roughly 5 Cubic meters of space (well as cubic as a hexagon can be) so randomly having half a squad be deleted from existence nearly half a kilometer by a target you cant see but your heat sensors can detect from that far would be traumatizing

placid garden
#

its like that one meme of the bright glowing guy in a diner, but he's standing on a hillside

burnt egret
#

i imagine it in the same tone of Will Ferrell's character when his car flips over in "Talladega Nights."

#

"Oh! Look at that guy!"

#

Shwumpf

zenith star
#

-# I am realizing now I have left out a mechanical rewording I needed to implement before sending this out. It is semi obvious what it is in that it makes no sense why it would be there without this change. If anybody can point it out to me they get 10 dollars.

zenith star
#

Making this for Hearth-7's homebrew channels since google docs are more well recieved over there, figured it would help anybody who just wants to look at the mechanics without downloading it yet.

#

It is just the frames for now, but licenses, talents, core bonuses, and what not should be coming to it within the coming days. It feels good to mull over it all again and it has helped me catch a scant few typos. If anything I am proud I have only found 3 minor ones in the entire thing so far without doing an actual clean sweep of it.

zenith star
#

Work on lore blurbs is moving swimmingly, I hope to have the first draft done by about the 10th.

zenith star
#

-- IPS-N Raleigh @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
IPS-N Raleigh 2, IPS-N Tortuga 2, SO-S Nobel 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Gyges Frame, Mount Retrofitting
[ TALENTS ]
Guard Dog 3, Executioner 2, Skirmisher 2, Duelist 1, Gunslinger 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
STRUCTURE:4 HP:23 ARMOR:1
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:7
TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+1
SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:7 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: M35 Mjolnir
RETROFITTED MOUNT: Catalytic Hammer (Pressurized Mod) / Hand Cannon // Mount Retrofitting
FLEX MOUNT: Catalytic Hammer (Pressurized Mod)
HEAVY MOUNT: Pressurized Sledge
[ SYSTEMS ]
“Roland” Chamber, Personalizations

#

Took a little break to theorycraft with Pressurized Mod because I finished up the Nobel's blurbs. I think this could be some good fun.

lament dawn
#

hey @zenith star I'm the guy that you were speaking to on reddit about balance. I do understand what you are saying, and I specifically do recognize that ordnance is rough and threat 1 is also rough, but gaining 1d6+4 (an entire nanocarbon's damage), and AP, and reliable, AND free action stabilize is far too much reward. You can always prepare a boost in order to start your turn adjacent to someone without doing much in the way of controlling. yes that takes a prepared quick action, but in exchange you are gaining a nanocarbon's worth of damage (over kin hammer), same reliable as a quick action prepared Sheavy, and (quite easily given the extreme damage) a free action stabilize.

#

I do also want to reiterate, as a homebrew dev myself, this shit rules and is very fun, but I do stand by the OP bit

#

if you disagree with my take tho, totally valid, it is your LCP, if you like it then that is what you should do

zenith star
#

Doesnt preparing an action require a targeted effect?

#

I don’t think you can prepare a “boost” in general.

lament dawn
#

I do not believe so

#

"any other quick action"

#

the evil and nefarious prepare action coming in to ruin balance as usual

zenith star
#

Hmm. Odd. That feels like it could really mess with sequencing if given that much freedom.

lament dawn
#

oh it does lol

#

prepared action fold space, no save, your turn is gone now. prepared action smite/eject power cores, two turn stun/jam lol

burnt egret
#

Boy

#

Weird to think I apparently haven’t even started playing Lancer lmfao

zenith star
#

Damn. I really do hate putting explicit bondages onto things.

It would be kind of a design failure to just put the phrase “you cannot prepare actions with this equipped wouldnt it.

I did create it with the understanding a prepare had to be a targeted effect.

lament dawn
#

so prepared action smite remains a 1 turn stun

zenith star
lament dawn
zenith star
#

Exactly

#

Maybe I make it a psuedo superheavy then. Like it has a quick action to mark a foe or something. Ill go back to the drawing board with it.

#

If you had mentioned that prepare thing on reddit I probably wouldve agreed, I look like a fool talking about Ferrous lashes and Hunds traits now when you can just say “I start my turn early” instead

lament dawn
#

lol nah it is very very clear that you thoroughly thought it through, definitely dont look like a fool

zenith star
#

“I set a mine, I prepare a ferrous lash for when you start your turn, get wrecked lol”

lament dawn
#

missing a thing inevitably happens when you try to balance stuff

#

the amount of times that people (including myself) do things where like, you gain something for becoming enganged with someone, and then we all collectively forget that you can just be bigger and then wiggle and spam the hell out of it

zenith star
# lament dawn lol nah it is very very clear that you thoroughly thought it through, definitely...

Think I came through with an idea and whilst it is rather blunt and makes the design far less clean visually but also does solve the issue I was having with "but what about Skirmisher 2" and that is simply making it a dual profile weapon that requires a quick action to "charge" it immobilizing you until the end of next turn and providing some new design space with possibly designating targets for the free stabilize to extra incentivize that target to avoid you hard, or something.

#

boy now I am just worried about everything else that is suddenly broken by prepared actions being that unchained

#

I guess I would also like to inquire about anything else that came across as far too overpowered because you did state it was "so much"

lament dawn
#

though you desperately need support/controller teamates, because NO enemy is willingly walking at you

zenith star
#

Well don't worry its really good on control points and king of the hi-

What do you mean every player just ran off the point to kill every enemy and it becomes attrition every time.

lament dawn
#

lol I unironically personally have objectives end after round 4 instead of core book's 6

#

makes them much more urgent

zenith star
#

Yeah, I am working on a campaign module and a big part of its effort has been "how to make players engage with the goddamn sitrep please stop trying to rout the enemy"

lament dawn
#

but yeah I do think that heavy D/D-288 is a solid path

lament dawn
#

whole mech is breaking duplicate action restrictions

#

yes, save 7, tech 7 but you have to target it for it to do anything yes, but it's a functionally immortal SP 12 support

#

it is a strange form of immortality which is definitely interesting

zenith star
#

See.

#

My problem is.

#

I am not sure if I am emotionally capable of changing the Seimeis nonsensical design.

lament dawn
#

well see that is totally valid

zenith star
#

I am too attached to that stupid all 7s idea

lament dawn
#

but it remains true that it is absurd

#

I do think it is at least fun

#

people who play the seimei will have fun

zenith star
#

I'm just glad your second topic you mentioned was one that I can agree is broken is some way.

#

I honestly saw the seimei as a license with a lot of fun toolbox stuff on the license and a headache of a mech

#

but one I couldnt compromise on

#

True with the Solomon as well.

lament dawn
#

ok well solomon was next on my list lol

zenith star
#

Cause its homebrew, the GM has the right to ban things easily

lament dawn
#

I guess I will skip that one

zenith star
lament dawn
plucky prism
#

That is my baby and it is beautiful.

lament dawn
#

dawg

zenith star
#

See languard jokingly suggested it

#

and I took it seriously

burnt egret
#

Oh trust us, that one’s meant to be funny

zenith star
#

becasue SWMG is a joke manufacturer

lament dawn
#

Oh I'm sure it is meant to be funny

#

it seems to me like you all actually totally understand how absurd and game breaking a lot of this is and are totally fine with it

#

which is respectable

#

but do you need me to tell me the game breaking stuff lol?

zenith star
#

I mean. You did point out a giant flaw in the beheading axe.

#

I was wondering if another would surface there.

lament dawn
#

well the firewall core bonus is a lot

zenith star
#

Cause I know what I meant to be broken, like I am surprised Autocon has never been mentioned by anybody in any thread so far

lament dawn
#

lol I haven't read it fully

zenith star
#

and thus it is pure

lament dawn
zenith star
#

I mean, Languard and I need to completely retool it

lament dawn
zenith star
#

at least it should be cleaned up.

lament dawn
#

Hyper awareness scanners does not need the free sensors 20 lol

#

this is something that was tried from massif. anything that changes sensors homogenizes the game a bit

zenith star
#

The psysop gamers need a win

lament dawn
#

What I would do is make it similar to titanomachy

#

pick ONE of the other two, OR duplicate one.

#

instead of do both of the other two

lament dawn
#

but all of us read it as psyop

zenith star
#

dammit I was lazy and didnt want to look it up again

lament dawn
#

psyop is a funny name for it to be so I too just assumed it was that

zenith star
#

I agree with a lot, it does come down to needing to playtest the core bonuses especially since that is a lot more specialized than "does this frame on its own break stuff"

#

Or, calculating damage numbers

lament dawn
#

Honestly core bonuses are the majority of the things I think are too much

#

Barring the things you've stated you like and dont wanna change which is fair lol

zenith star
#

Its because Core Bonuses are quite hampered in design space IMO, they kinda are completely restricted with Opcal and IPSN/Heatfall.

plucky prism
#

I definitely always get too caught up in the strength variation because some of them are just... sooooooooo much stronger that it can be hard to get like a baseline on how strong they are?

zenith star
#

They are tough to make good, fun, and balanced.

lament dawn
#

Now, importantly, "Simply strapping another reactor to your back" is actively throwing to take lol

zenith star
#

Anything for another quick action.

lament dawn
lament dawn
#

OP cal is an extra 3.5 average damage for your weapon

#

that's good, but not like absurd. especially when you take into account that if ur a bonus d6 striker with nuc cav, buddy gives you a leader, thermal charge, etc. Every single instance of bonus damage you stack, the percentage improvement of the next one is lesser

zenith star
#

OpCal isn't actually that much in general but its just so generically the best option for most first drafts of builds it makes it hard to branch out if you have that powergamer bug in yah.

#

It isn't the strongest thing in the game ever, but it being GMS makes it always a top 3 option most of the time.

lament dawn
#

I think anyone that is a striker/x or doesnt have striker in their role is making a bad choice to auto include OP cal

#

even orchis who can do really good skirmish damage just doens't need it, it can still do an average of 24 damage in a skirmish

zenith star
#

I would need somebody in a game I am playing to not go striker or hardline Controller with no hull

lament dawn
#

lol

zenith star
#

or running

plucky prism
#

Hey!

zenith star
#

Watch it the cavalier has arrived.

lament dawn
#

I don't think core bonuses need to be so strong that they convince the player who isn't making a particularly good build to take them

#

they do not need to be universally good

#

full sync on a drake is an awful choice, but an incredible choice on anyone base evas 10 or 12

#

so yeah anyways point is, core bonuses in general are a bit too much (excluding the extra reactor one that one is actively harmful)

zenith star
burnt egret
#

-# gee y’think?

lament dawn
#

optimizing everything is totally fine

zenith star
lament dawn
#

but most people are very wrong about what optimal actually is

#

supports in lancer can be fucking absurd

plucky prism
#

^^^

zenith star
burnt egret
zenith star
#

Still easy?

#

Supports are pretty good, its just boring sometimes which I don't see them a ton.

lament dawn
#

lol

lament dawn
#

Genuinely lancer is designed well enough where there is almost always a way to win if you lock in

plucky prism
#

^^^

zenith star
lament dawn
#

almost

plucky prism
#

One shots are different Logez.

lament dawn
#

50 elite ronins arent gonna lose a 1v50

plucky prism
#

AND WE WON AGAINST THE 6 ULTRAS IN THAT ONE SHOT BECAUSE WE LOCKED IN IF YOU REMEMBER

lament dawn
#

but if you have 5 PC's, 5 NPC's + 1 elite, oh yeah they can win that hard if they play well

lament dawn
zenith star
lament dawn
#

I'm gonna keep reiterating that I like your LCP, and I do not wish to rag on it at all lol btw.

zenith star
#

I got that.

lament dawn
#

kk cool

zenith star
#

It's fun to talk about this sort of thing.

plucky prism
#

I really appreciate what you have to say. A critical eye is important to help notice where we went stir crazy with just our experiences.

zenith star
#

Especially when so much of the lcp is begging to have somebody direct message me inquiring about any head related incidents as a child

lament dawn
burnt egret
#

It’s nice having input that isn’t just the three of us

zenith star
plucky prism
#

I'm definitely going to have to go check out this.

zenith star
#

I knew you had made one but I wasn't familiar with your game sir.

lament dawn
#

it's called freistride chassisworks, it's in #lancer-news and comp/con

lament dawn
#

If you guys have any feedback on my stuff I would also love to hear it

zenith star
#

I mean I am looking at the perma-Deidymos so you may be sellign yourself short.

lament dawn
#

so I really fuck with wheel.breaking btw

#

like super hard

#

however I would allow them to overheat themselves

#

if the GM wants to expose themself to clear the jam, let em do it I think

zenith star
#

I made it like that so you could essentially force them to take all of it instead of become exposed. Like they had no out.

#

But again, could be too overpowered.

#

I won't lie, I have done a recklessly small amoutn of true playtesting.

lament dawn
#

It's just that like, it's a LOT of conditions. It is functionally a 3 heat impaired + slowed

lament dawn
zenith star
#

I have made sure to try and snag any game breaking things that are unintended but numbers will need to be pinned down

lament dawn
zenith star
#

I uh.

#

I did also cut a lot.

#

Entirely because I wanted a break form drawing mechs

lament dawn
#

all of my stuff is playtested, but I have two guys willing to playtest a lot, and it's only a total of 14 mechs in the whole LCP

zenith star
lament dawn
#

6 alts, 8 regulars

zenith star
#

I have just gone overboard. I don't know many lcps that even approach 22

lament dawn
#

field guide to liminal space, 3 manufacturers

plucky prism
#

I love reading through liminal space.

zenith star
#

and I am planning on a 2.0 with a third manufacturer and new licenses for all 6 as I develop the campaign story...

#

I don't know why, but I cannot stop myself

#

This will somehow end with me just making a mech trpg

lament dawn
#

that's funny you say that cuz that is how this STARTED for me

#

I realized that was a bad choice and downsized lol

#

godspeed if you do that lol

plucky prism
#

I have tried talking down on multiple parts. Bless Logez's vision but there is only so much time in the day and amphetamines for the nights.

zenith star
#

Like, I keep coming up with ideas that would work really well when fleshed out but I didn't want to break my one major rule for puddles which is " no new keywords and nothing that would require extra effort outside of Comp/Con to implement into a build."

lament dawn
#

does this mean hostile?

#

or is this supposed to harm allies too lol

zenith star
#

Its a commentary on war making bastards of all of us ah shit I knew I missed one

lament dawn
#

lol I did this too with one of my defenders

plucky prism
#

It's amazing how many times we read through this and find new shit all of time.

#

God forbid the Seimei took like 20 passovers to fix most glaring issues.

zenith star
#

Look I let myself be free with the Seimei.

lament dawn
zenith star
#

Making it balanced was an impossibility whilst sticking to the zodiac theming

zenith star
lament dawn
#

fair enough

#

cuz I was gonna say that richard's seems kinda outright better

zenith star
#

New richard

#

and Cerberus because the old one wasn't fitting with the lore direction we wanted to go for Cerberus

lament dawn
#

makes more sense

lament dawn
#

both?

#

My immediate assumption is both

zenith star
#

Eh, it would be the first, core lancer is finicky on if it mentions it so I figured it would be alright but I did add a new thing so I should clarify better.

#

Plus I am trying to be more consistent and with more polish than base anywasy so no excuse

lament dawn
#

yeah honestly most of the stuff that I haven't spoken of yet is smaller stuff

#

which idk if that's worth everyone's time lol

#

like does morgana really need a flex mount?

#

just stuff like that

#

If I see anything beheading axe adjacent I will make sure to let y'all know tho

zenith star
lament dawn
#

ah fair enough

#

honestly very real lol

zenith star
#

In this case, the Morgana being way more cranked as a frame but instead of buffing an enemy it straight up spawned a custom NPC that was out for blood.

burnt egret
#

That was a fun time

lament dawn
#

that is fun lol

zenith star
#

So for that one it was "everything about the Morgana should be a bit OP" and then the Pen Dragi lost a lot of sauce

lament dawn
#

Grand apprentice is potentially the best trait in the game lol

zenith star
#

It only stopped becuase the lcp editor can't handle NPCs without making Comp/con crash until C/C is officially 3.0

lament dawn
#

I dont think it does that as is, but probably avoid that lol

zenith star
#

Yeah. It went "oh its a little defender itll be fine" to "its intangible to all but the morgana" to "oh this would ruin module control balancing" so lets just make it the angry spirit thing

limber sleet
burnt egret
#

…oh no

#

Lmao

zenith star
#

Yeah I put in a little clause that it could and was immune to everything proof shields

burnt egret
#

Which license has that one again?

zenith star
#

Stumpp.

burnt egret
#

The everything-proof shield I mean

limber sleet
burnt egret
#

Y’know the words left my fingers before my brain realized Napoleon

zenith star
limber sleet
zenith star
#

Yes by conceding its impossible and having to shamefully go "but not special little boy"

burnt egret
zenith star
#

and then I was annihilated by prepared actions because of course I forgot about those.

limber sleet
#

(It is always funny to see. Just like the people who go "Okay, immune to environmental effects" without looking at what the environmental effects table actually contains.)

zenith star
#

Nobody uses them but to break the game and I don't play with people who have fun doing that so I dont see it much

zenith star
limber sleet
zenith star
#

-# seriously why is there always an ignore difficult terrain/environment core Bonus

limber sleet
#

Is there always one?

zenith star
#

A ton have them I noticed it was just funny to me.

burnt egret
#

Damn-near always, or at least frequent enough to make a joke about it.

lament dawn
#

ignoring difficult terrain is a 1 SP system lol

limber sleet
#

Huh, not really a pattern I've noticed. Though, admittedly I've not been as closely attuned to things since releasing Iridia. So I'm sure the commonalities have shifted.

lament dawn
zenith star
#

Off the top I think Suldan, Intercorp, G&S, Odeon, Zalweski, Pinchov

burnt egret
#

You mean Pinnacle Industries?

limber sleet
#

Huh.

zenith star
#

Vulcan is the person who has like 40 lcps stuffed into their C/C

zenith star
limber sleet
#

Ah, one of those folks, haha.

zenith star
#

not looking at the directory right now

burnt egret
#

Yeah Pinnacle = PI-OF

burnt egret
lament dawn
limber sleet
#

I'm always impressed your Comp/Cons don't crash.

lament dawn
#

my comp/con breathes through a fucking tube

zenith star
burnt egret
#

My comp/con runs like one of those old tractors you use a shotgun blank to start.

lament dawn
zenith star
limber sleet
#

All I know is that mine struggled enough with the amount I had in my own homebrew.

zenith star
#

Makes the license page beg for death on loading

limber sleet
#

I tried to use compressed images where I could for mine. There's just, y'know, 30 of them to make up for it. 😅

zenith star
limber sleet
#

Pretty sure it's new, because a lot of people were randomly running into problems.

#

Turns out Beef didn't expect people to try and shove in 300 frames!

lament dawn
#

hey speaking of does anyone have the "no image data" image I cant find it

#

I'm still waiting on the artist I commissioned for my mech art

#

so it's all just blank rn

burnt egret
#

Usually it just makes the Compendium run like that one time you tried playing Wonderful 101 @zenith star

ionic sundial
#

I'm one of those people. I want to be able to see all my dolls.

zenith star
#

I vaguely recall looking that up for the Ang

zenith star
burnt egret
#

Did it involve shooting Kamiya?

zenith star
zenith star
#

He blocked it.

lament dawn
#

As a DM that utilizes other lancers in the campaign

#

yeah lol

lament dawn
burnt egret
lament dawn
zenith star
#

I may eventually have to compile this sort of thing for that module of mine

#

But that's after quelling my feature creeping heart and removing the RTS segments. /s

#

Or forcing people to learn Battlegroup /srs

lament dawn
#

lol

zenith star
#

Sadly one of my playtesters cannot read so its been tough

lament dawn
#

TRUE

#

@thick skiff

burnt egret
#

yeah you talk about all the stuff you cut, lest we forget the time I practically had to tie you down to prevent you from adding more shit to the beta

zenith star
#

Don't forget B-sides

burnt egret
thick skiff
#

uncalled for

zenith star
zenith star
#

I will be the better man than I was in the past and not air your dirty rules hallucinating laundry

zenith star
burnt egret
#

he gave Ranger Swallowtail a Heavy Mount and then complained that I wasn't using the frame traits of locking on and repositioning when I could just use the new and improved Anti-Materiel Rifle

zenith star
#

B-Displacer was my magnum opus.

burnt egret
zenith star
lament dawn
#

well it's also HP

zenith star
lament dawn
#

uhhuh

burnt egret
#

see also: Cannibal Both Barrels

zenith star
#

I was going to joke that you can post it Vulcan because it would show how much I have changed but B-Sides only failed because I was never going to perfect it enough.

burnt egret
#

you complained about Lancer's damage stacking and then added more damage to everything

zenith star
#

and had to keep being talked down from a new thing every week

zenith star
burnt egret
#

oh that was the fix, got it

lament dawn
#

operator's do 13 energy per shot instead of 7

burnt egret
#

You, God Above All, fixing what Tom and Kai could never lmfao

lament dawn
#

we're becoming DnD 5e with this one

zenith star
#

I meant buffing HP

zenith star
burnt egret
#

yeah they would need a buff to HP but then the other problem I've noticed is that combat just takes a while in general and a fix would to just have less enemies so you would spend less time fighting in one combat and instead have more combats to fight in a given session.

zenith star
#

Yeah. Maybe balance it with equal players so its a tighter game feel

#

Maybe like

#

3v3

burnt egret
#

I SWEAR TO GOD

#

he does this every time

zenith star
#

I love getting you with this joke every time

burnt egret
#

Every time he brings up Mech Bakugan!

zenith star
#

I dont even know how it started

lament dawn
burnt egret
#

It started with a genuine idea that spiraled into "but what if lol"

zenith star
#

I think I was making a joke that in Tri-M they invented a mini tabletop version of mech combat that was just Lancer but 3v3 and that eventually turned into "lancer bakugan"

zenith star
burnt egret
#

I tend to chew the scenery

burnt egret
#

FUCk

zenith star
#

@burnt egret they yearn

burnt egret
#

IT'S SPREADING

zenith star
#

I'm gonna do it Vulcan

#

I'm going to make Lancer Bakugan.

#

I'm going full Tom and getting completely sidetracked by a side project that spirals out of control in scope.

burnt egret
#

or you make it a splash with way too much thought put into it a la Goblin With a Fat Ass

zenith star
#

Well first I must establish high quality to make the joke land.

#

So I gotta work for another 15 years on stuff down to also making a comic

burnt egret
#

I mean, if that's what it takes to get Neon Fists going

zenith star
#

Look I got too many projects in my head aight

zenith star
#

Failing as I am in doing so.

#

Well, I am stepping away for a bit and then probably writing blurbs whilst listening to disturbingly close fireworks so thank you for the delightful conversations and happy new year.

lament dawn
#

happy new year, love to see the amount of passion you guys have for this, your LCP is sick

#

(one more thing, I would take a second look at CCF engine lol)

#

(and dragon's lash in comparison to nanobot whip)

zenith star
lament dawn
#

nanobot is bit weak for sure, I definitely feel you there

zenith star
#

Same with antimat rifle

#

Its hard not to creep it

lament dawn
#

to be fair, GMS heavy melee and kin hammer do exist in the same game, so outright creep isn't exactly unheard of but probably dont lol

zenith star
#

But taking talents into consideration, Lash could be a little toned down. Executioner is fantastic even on threat 1 let alone 4

lament dawn
#

I would make it low damage honestly

#

huge threat low damage

zenith star
zenith star
lament dawn
#

sounds fun to me

zenith star
#

Also fits the meteor hammer or sash vibes

lament dawn
#

tru

zenith star
#

This is going to be both so much easier and so much harder the more eyes I get on this

lament dawn
#

Yup lol

#

and then when you see obvious changes you realize that the vast majority of users that download your LCP will never see that update lol

#

and that first thing that you now realize is not up to snuff in your new eyes is stuck like that for like half the users

#

just how it is lol

#

apologies for that cognitohazard if you hadn't thought about it yet

zenith star
#

When like. The deadline was just for the art. I got a bit too swept up in my final art block and the holidays

lament dawn
#

just get on comp/con lol, really it's probably the best way to ensure people see the updates

zenith star
#

though I suspect the directory requirements are looser than explained

lament dawn
#

it's a trust based system, I would keep yourself pretty strict to them just for the sake of the community

zenith star
#

Considering a ton of projects (with love) often have some sloppy formatting or are like mine, missing a lot of stuff.

Arts the exception. Stuff is hard and expensive so I get why projects miss it

lament dawn
#

I thought that they do like a review of the LCP, turns out they do not, so I would follow their guidelines as tight as possible

zenith star
#

And yeah, I personally am holding myself to meet the written standards

zenith star
lament dawn
#

lmao

#

they scrutinize it heavily

#

they interrogate you over it

#

they tie you to a chair and yell at you

zenith star
#

Eh, blurb writing is progressing smoother than expected for myself so I hope to have it done within two weeks or so

burnt egret
#

Tom himself is gonna break your knees

zenith star
zenith star
zenith star
limber sleet
zenith star
#

Decided to bust out ol' reliable to ascertain how much of a hack I am.

#

Quite funny to me how many of these are just Solmon with like, 1 or 2 for Koschei and Stumpp/Hund

lament dawn
#

I require this bingo board

#

do you have an unmarked version lol

zenith star
#

I think its pinned in the design channel

#

I got hit with it half the time when I shared stuff there haha

lament dawn
#

lmao

#

okay I'll look for it there

zenith star
#

I was thinking of a Balor alt thats Size 4 with the Squad movement rules so thatll get me closer to bingo

lament dawn
#

dawg

#

lol pop off

#

not saying it's a bad idea at all, definitely interesting

dull jacinth
#

...I cannot for the life of me work out what "Wiggle" is

lament dawn
#

effects that activate upon becoming adjacent

#

spam movements that ignore engagement

dull jacinth
#

Oooooh

lament dawn
#

wiggle out and in of engagement, spamming the effect

#

I assume that is what that means

ionic sundial
#

it's things that make you move in and out of the same space repeatedly, basically.

zenith star
fading lava
#

Most of the licensed equipment

burnt egret
#

Not in the least

fading lava
#

Not necessarily in straight power but more in use cases

burnt egret
#

You sure do have some equipment that is straight-up better, but a lot are sidegrades or are just plain weirder than GMS.

#

And then there’s all the bad stuff.

fading lava
#

Stares at mimic gun

burnt egret
#

Stares at Siege Ram

fading lava
#

Yeah

#

Ram should inherently do damage fr

#

But uh I was always under the assumption that most licensed equipment wasn’t a direct upgrade but had a wider range of uses and could mesh better with talents

#

Like combat drill and bullshit damage

zenith star
#

That square is more for “inarguably” better.

#

Like. I think the Dsas is objectively better than the GMS shotgun, but the GMS shotgun is longer range and not inaccurate so there are situations it functions better than the Dsas.

fading lava
#

Yeah

zenith star
#

Blurb work is going well, all talents, core bonuses, and GMS equipment have been done as well as the two manufacturer spiels. Obviously licenses will take the bulk of the time but a few are already finished or being haphazardly tackled.

zenith star
#

Oh yeah, found the old one I had made before learning about the other.

#

Gotta see how much of a hack I am to myself.

#

Damn, I am a hack by my own standards... smh my head...

zenith star
burnt egret
#

Have there been any size fours outside of the one G&S one that was removed and the Tempest NPC?

zenith star
#

Was the Yamato one?

burnt egret
#

The Tempest was either size 3 or 4, can’t remember off the top of my head.

zenith star
#

I imagine it'd be Size 3.

burnt egret
#

All I really remember was “bo-at” and “two Heavy Mounts.”

zenith star
#

Either way I should revise this sometime, I think I have picked up some new stereotypes on "hack" (with love) homebrew.

zenith star
#

wait you wont get that joke

burnt egret
#

You’re right, I won’t.

zenith star
#

I often am with you

#

Write blurbs with me.

burnt egret
#

No, out to breakfast rn.

zenith star
#

Reworking the Beheading Axe.

#

So it is now still certainly a strong Heavy Melee alternative, but has warning to it and more importantly even when used or more likely broken its highs arent as ridiculous as "wavedash TCB"

#

Also better balanced around executioner, which like. It really should be.

burnt egret
#

ah hah!

#

I was right!

lament dawn
# zenith star

I am assuming that you become immobilized from accuse?

#

not the three characters

zenith star
#

sigh I played around with the wording so much to avoid saying “and word and” that I didn’t catch that. Thank you for justifying this threads creation a handful of times.

#

Also, I would say about 20-23% of the writing is done blurb wise, and while it’s still early I think a favorite of mine has emerged.

I am an incredibly amateur writer but I think I punched above my weight for a moment for a license.

lament dawn
#

lol I feel that

#

always trying to make something as incredible as caliban

zenith star
#

It really is the bar.

#

Individual blurbs may be better as like, a piece or a whole license can tell a better story but “the Space Truckers drop all pretense and remind you of just how tight a race it is sometimes on who of the big 3 is the fucking worst” is the best.

#

Combined with it being an expansion so it actively tore down a couple of months of flanderization.

lament dawn
#

yeah it is quite hard to strike a balance between like technical talk, like mechanically how the thing functions which can be neat, while giving neat lore bits

zenith star
#

Thats the balance Ive tossed for a bit. Due to not being sure if I will even have a guide within a year or something, I have delegated a lot more world-building than normal to blurbs.

#

The second draft especially will focus on adding back in just enough techno babble to feel like a comp con entry.

#

But I just need to get the 1.0 officially out to keep drumming up interest.

#

I just view the current gap as an obvious consequence of the what? 15 years minimum more professional experience the creators have got on me. I aint going to let a fact of reality depress me, its just something to scale

lament dawn
#

oh yeah lol it is so hard to get something nearly as good as first party stuff

#

but honestly if like 90% of it is tolerable then 10% is excellent, most people will be fine with that lol

#

that is good

zenith star
#

It doesnt help my lead writer has abandoned me for only paying him a singular dollar…

#

Nobody wants to work these days

lament dawn
#

man what the hell

#

so ungrateful

burnt egret
#

ABANDONED?!

zenith star
burnt egret
#

I HAVE A JOB

zenith star
#

Yeah its writing I thought.

burnt egret
#

well, a job and I have to spend time finding another, better job because my contract expires in a couple months

lament dawn
burnt egret
#

NO HE WAS NOT

burnt egret
#

that dollar has not hit my account yet

zenith star
#

Well you gotta finish the contract first.

zenith star
#

Went and fully calculated precisely how much of the blurbs how been done not counting individual lengths since I cannot predict that and it is sitting at a nice 36%, so I am decently confident in the true 1.0 being out within 2-3 weeks.

steep terrace
#

is there a pdf / google doc version of this I could see?

zenith star
# steep terrace is there a pdf / google doc version of this I could see?

#1454687572839235918 message

it is certainly not fully complete and will most likely be out of date even by now and especially by the time true 1.0 is out by the end of January, but this will provide a decent overview of 98% accurate Frames in the project, with updates to filling out the rest possibly occurring in between bouts of blurb writing.

zenith star
#

The frames and Core powers will not have blurbs due to wanting to save some amount of space but the equipment will have blurbs in whenever I want to put them in there, so if you want a sneak peak at first draft blurbs, have at it.

zenith star
#

Halfway point on the flavor text has been achieved.

zenith star
#

No wonder I was tired of brainstorming invade options, I literally put more into Tri-M than the base game actually had.

#

Actually, its tied if we count the three from Hacker 2. Darn.

zenith star
#

All that is left is Sage-Wisemann's blurbs alongside another mechanical once over for clarifications and last minute changes and 1.0 will be out! Putting that probably sometime before the 21st.

dim zodiac
#

such a cool field guide

#

so excited to see where it goes

#

still need to look deeper witht he spouse @loud valve at some point

zenith star
zenith star
#

I will admit. I have kept a large majority of the blurbs more in line with what is normal for Lancer, even including HORUS.

Some of the SW//MG licenses are getting funky.

zenith star
#

Blurbs. Finished.

#

Now, barring writing up a proper description, any major edits to the writing my trusty once a day editor suggests, and redesigning the logos + probably poster for now. The true 1.0 will soon release.

dull jacinth
#

I'm curious, is there intended to be a PDF with lore about the Tri-M system at some point?

zenith star
#

Yes.

dull jacinth
#

Excellent. Looking forward to it

zenith star
#

It may be a little bit, especially considering I’m planning on doing all the art for it myself as well but it will be worked on alongside the campaign project.

dull jacinth
#

Well, good things take time

#

Purely out of self interest and making a long rim maps for my own campaign, would you say tri-m is closer to Rao Co or the Dawnline shore?

zenith star
#

Probably Rao Co, but still rather isolated. A big portion of its lore is that it went undiscovered for an extremely long time due to an internal embargo on any information getting out about the system because the first encounter with outside space for them after millennia was the new federation attempting to annihilate them.

#

Honestly, I gotta figure that out for myself.

#

I got the internals of the system down quite nicely, and a decent timeline, but actively fitting it into the lore of everything is the last step.

burnt egret
#

okay, gonna toot my horn on behalf of the "team" as it were. there are some bits that might need a bit more thinking, at least with regard to the actual placement of Tri-Matron and where it is within the wider Union stretch of space

#

but all the shit that isn't that one particular bit?

#

We (Logez) are fuckin cookin

#

like damn

#

I had to wrangle some bits here and there, but you folks aren't ready

zenith star
#

I will admit. I probably spent two years thinking “the long rim” was synonymous with the entire outer ring and despite learning to the contrary that brain worm stayed

past mural
#

Looks absolutely stylish however i got ome question, got any of them pdfs available my good fellow?

burnt egret
#

we have a google doc

#

whether or not it's fully up-to-date with the changes we made today, I'm not sure

zenith star
#

It’s not fully updated but it gets the gist across.

#

It has all the frames currently and about 40% of the rest of the stuff, should be filled out soon by Sundays end most likely.

#

As for a pdf. I should probably expedite the process. As an “lcp first” kind of peruser I think my bias is showing with the ordering here.

past mural
zenith star
past mural
zenith star
zenith star
#

We are now officially in the comp/con LCP directory. PDF development is also underway.

burnt egret
#

RAAAAAAAAH LET’S FUCKIN GOOOOO!!!

halcyon bison
#

NICE

lament dawn
#

massive

burnt egret
#

Crazy seeing my name on there like that.

zenith star
burnt egret
#

please, that was my father's name

zenith star
#

Mr. 64 sounds like a weirdly serious documentary title about the break up of the Disc Drive Sony deal

burnt egret
#

Oh damn we gotta keep this up.

#

Quick! @zenith star post WIPs!

#

At least hints of WIPs!

zenith star
#

Is that something people do often? I feel like that would fit more with the campaign, it’s more tactile.

#

But okay.

#

I’ll find some stuff.

lament dawn
#

are you supposed to do that

zenith star
#

I think I have learned over and over recently there really isn’t a standard that can be followed

#

But I will probably share art pieces or page snippets I think can stand on their own as I finish them.

lament dawn
#

I should probably start doing that as well

burnt egret
ionic sundial
#

you considered submitting something to Mechanic Brewery?

#

(addressed to OP)

burnt egret
#

I certainly have, it’s a question of both a) “how do” and b) “when does dragon plan on making another one of those?”

#

(I’m part of the team)

ionic sundial
#

oh lmao sorry

burnt egret
#

No worries lol

ionic sundial
burnt egret
#

Well shit.

#

Uhhhhhh @zenith star you can throw one of the frames from the google doc into a PDF and submit it, right?

#

We’ve got plenty of options!

#

Seeing as we have to post art for it, my personal nomination would be either the Seimei or the Solomon, but we could also go Stumpp/Hund for the double-whammy

#

Or each and every one of us could go in and shill a different frame! Cast a wide net, if you will.

zenith star
#

Oh, well a nice stroke of luck.

zenith star
#

I may need to give it some thought, combined with what Art do I want to show off.

#

Honestly I may send in the Richard, Gast Config is sure to draw some attention, it’s probably the cleanest design out of the whole project, and people adore their big dumb superheavies.

#

You could certainly shill the Solomon or S/H for me Vulcan but I’d rather not come across as too pushy by like, coordinating some mass push even if I know I could get like guaranteed 7 submissions or something just from collaborators.

zenith star
# burnt egret Just think! This could make you a ✨trendsetter!✨

I mean a major goal by the end of this which you know already is to be a quite substantially large and polished singular project connected to the subsequently also large and polished campaign module, so who knows. Maybe I can be a Suldan or an Intercorp if I keep at it.

burnt egret
#

Richard is definitely a good pick, I figured you want to have SW//MG headline considering they’re what you put the most weird shit into.

#

Paixhans is definitely my choice for an alt-frame tho. Don’t have to worry about submission rules with the Apollo twins, and everyone loves MF Boom.

zenith star
burnt egret
#

Because any vaguely dad-ish platitude sounds natural coming from me, according to you.

zenith star
#

They do.

#

Several people are saying it

burnt egret
#

You and Languard don’t count

zenith star
#

I can easily source more.

zenith star
#

Guad is still a bit complicated with the pseudo-efficient core power. And the other 4 got some quirks to them each but the Paixhans is a very honest design.

#

I’ll have to come up with a “danger to new players” scale as a bit and slap a numerical sticker on every mechs art.

#

On one end is probably the Nobel or Sherpa, and on the other sits like half of SW//MG and the Koschei

burnt egret
#

Pull up the GGST star system

zenith star
#

Mmm.

#

My favorite

#

5/5 STARS

#

-# of simplicity!

burnt egret
#

Is it good? Is it bad? Who knows!

zenith star
#

“So so on one end this mech just wants you and your target to be in the danger zone when you hack them and on this other end here we have the doohickeymabob with 6 mounts that vomits d6s up periodically that smell vaguely of sulfur and pine needles.”

zenith star
#

Darn it.

#

I have found a singular semi-typo I missed in the lcp.

#

10 bucks to anybody that can point it out to me.

zenith star
#

You aren't allowed

burnt egret
#

aw beans

zenith star
#

You can see my patch notes in the docs on what to change

#

It's incredibly minor so I can wait to have the pdf out to fix that.

burnt egret
#

The poll is up! Go! Go! Go!

#

Also go to the Mechanic Brewery thread and read the other frames and licenses that were put in there!

#

Holy shit there's a lot of them

#

but some are pretty killer!

zenith star
#

I’ll put my votes in soon.

zenith star
#

I'm pretty much half way done with the line art for the cover art of the pdf, so I feel like sharing some WIP

crisp moss
#

peak names

burnt egret
#

See this is the kind of shit I’m talking about.

#

I was brought on to be a writer/editor, but like

#

What is there to improve?

#

It’s simply peak

crisp moss
#

this is broken af btw

#

reloading

#

every mech is now the stort

zenith star
# crisp moss this is broken af btw

I gotta try it on a build truly dedicated to breaking it. But core bonuses are weird in that so many are already broken it’s kind of hard to overcome the raw stats of Reinforced, Opcal, or Heatfall.

crisp moss
#

my monitor is fucking huge

zenith star
#

AAAA does that no matter the resolution.

#

I think it adds to the flavor

crisp moss
burnt egret
#

-# I wrote the flavor for that one myself!

crisp moss
#

also how did you playtest the seimei

zenith star
# crisp moss also how did you playtest the seimei

Asking a friend every possible way they could conceivably break it (they are particularly good in spotting mean combos). Running a simulation game solo attempting to be a jerk to myself with it, and then refining it to exclude the uber powerful unintended play patterns

#

It needs a good amount of “true” play testing for me to be sure of it but for now I have negated every “mean” play pattern possibility.

lament dawn
crisp moss
#

i feel like a gm could just turn your ability to play off but if you take anything that even soft forces enemies onto you will let you stun fest all over the place

lament dawn
#

they seem to not care which is fair enough

crisp moss
crisp moss
zenith star
lament dawn
#

what if it like

#

has hull 6

#

if you dont explode it it now gets a determinsitic stun on you

dull jacinth
zenith star
crisp moss
zenith star
crisp moss
zenith star
crisp moss
#

i made it longer

zenith star
#

Excellent.

lament dawn
#

you are not exploding it

#

and that means you arent attacking it

#

because it will now stun you guaranteed from anywhere

lament dawn
#

for when it gets attacked

#

so even at T3, that operator is only getting one shot on you before becoming stunned

crisp moss
#

TWO TURN STUN!!!!!

zenith star
#

The other portion of that is that like, you don’t gotta hit the Seimei. It quite literally is pure support.

lament dawn
#

two turn stun

#

yes

zenith star
#

Damn prepared action.

crisp moss
#

also stun making evasion 5 is horrific

#

so no matter the evasion or saves

lament dawn
#

so ye seimei is completely unkillable

crisp moss
#

yeah basically

#

but you know what

#

based

lament dawn
#

I do believe he knows that lol

zenith star
#

I’m genuinely not super worried about it. A stupid hard to deal with purely pacifist support isn’t the worst thing.

lament dawn
#

well

#

fair enough

crisp moss
#

if it did anything other than stun id agree

zenith star
#

But, maybe during the playtesting with me not playing both sides a mentality shift will reveal a big flaw.

crisp moss
#

you play both sides>

zenith star
#

I’ve planned a few replacements if it’s too much to allow

lament dawn
#

I do believe playing both sides is a deeply dubious testing method

crisp moss
#

while that is true im more concerned by this

#

should i be scared

zenith star
# crisp moss you play both sides>

Yeah I mentioned that. It’s been very hard to have any consistent playtesting available. So for now I have elected to trim the possibilities for game balance shattering combos or features to exist (without warning) and tried to work within a very rough year.

lament dawn
#

just find some unemployed friends and force them to test ur LCP by giving them the licenses for free during ur campaign

zenith star
# crisp moss should i be scared

He likes to take credit for getting his friends into lancer when it would’ve happened with or without him in my and a few close friends case.

lament dawn
#

but convenient

zenith star
crisp moss
#

the lancer game recuting channel works great

lament dawn
lament dawn
#

nothing wrong with that

#

some people just like to rp lol

zenith star
lament dawn
#

but like if you give a new player an empakaii and they find it weak, that is not really telling of the empakaii

burnt egret
# crisp moss should i be scared

They may have gotten into Lancer without my help, but it never would have happened when it did had I not started showing friends outside of the players of the one revolver campaign we had at that point.

lament dawn
burnt egret
#

Also yes, you should be scared.

lament dawn
zenith star
zenith star
#

Cause it’s probably like 3 in that case.

#

I’m not diminishing your accomplishments, I have heard you did kill a leviathan in one shot, but I just want a count.

burnt egret
#

3 in person and at least another four more

#

And those are the people I’ve actively played with for an extended period of time.

crisp moss
#

ill ask some of the people who have worked with me for playtesting

#

although, they can be

#

on the harher side

zenith star
crisp moss
#

damn

zenith star
lament dawn
crisp moss
#

i have been called a fucking idiot very often

#

although i dought you face that

#

doubt

lament dawn
#

they dont do personal attacks they just say things like "this mech/idea boring and I have absolutely no interest in playing it"

#

which can be useful

#

or it means that they have bad taste in mechs could go either way

zenith star
#

I have a philosophy for playtesting when I can do it that there are three important audiences to test.

Power gamers, general audiences, and people that don’t read their spells.

Power gamers are easy, they will try to kill you, and are good for determining balance, this is Languard, General audiences are good for testing vibes of stuff, what people find “cool” or gravitate towards. And people that don’t read their spells are good for testing if you can actually understand the damn rules of something by only reading it once and forgetting immediately. This is Vulc.

crisp moss
#

also the people that dont read their speels

zenith star
crisp moss
#

that does remind me i have mechs to unborning

#

unboring

lament dawn
#

the mech that can literally no clip and go out of bounds rules stfu

zenith star
#

I feel like I’m too proud of a lot of my stuff that I would just have a hard time assuming a mech is boring if told and is more to taste unless like, everybody tells me so.

crisp moss
#

to be fair, i do make boring mechs

lament dawn
#

lancer is a fan of those

zenith star
#

I mean, what’s boring mean for frames and licenses? Simple? Clean rules? Lack of absolute nonsense and/or new keywords that brick C/C?

#

Those ain’t sins

lament dawn
#

with snoozefests like the genghis in the game

zenith star
crisp moss
#

ive been a balance first type of designer which does have

lament dawn
#

dying on this hill

crisp moss
#

downsides

crisp moss
#

what do you make

lament dawn
#

lots of mechs get reigned in from their cool ideas and become boring

burnt egret
#

Genghis is rad even when it sucks.

crisp moss
#

ghengis is boring

zenith star
crisp moss
#

but flame throws arent

lament dawn
burnt egret
#

Yes, and it also has a flamethrower.

crisp moss
lament dawn
#

frame

burnt egret
#

The frame itself does nothing special, I agree.

lament dawn
#

aux artillery is fun

crisp moss
#

it already does bonus damage, attacks, and movement, what more does it need

lament dawn
#

but ye it needs some help I think

zenith star
#

Vulc here had one game where he took like no damage the entire time due to 4 armor and simply cannot stop chasing that high

#

I think I may be an outlier on balance discussions.

lament dawn
#

I agree

zenith star
#

Because I do believe in making balanced things. But my definition is “is this better to take than just shermanizing”

#

I skew towards high end power because I gotta justify not going workhorse equipment

#

And most of it I think it defensible. Outside of the mentioned exceptions, which even then are more “weird” and require different counterplay than simple “big tank, stop jamming me, or the melee one”

lament dawn
#

whoops

crisp moss
#

adding soot

#

but it could use an extra trait for sure, something small probably

#

probably an on crit

zenith star
#

-# But I fear the day somebody figures out an optimized Solomon.

lament dawn
zenith star
#

It’s why making CQBs is so goddamn hard.

lament dawn
#

however, it is usually not particularly busted

zenith star
#

Mods. Post the Zweihander trait

lament dawn
#

the main melee?

zenith star
#

Damnit I forgot the name

lament dawn
#

zeilinger

#

lol

zenith star
lament dawn
lament dawn
# zenith star

this does silly nonsense with orator and field analyst

crisp moss
#

im not reading that

lament dawn
#

but you are actively harming ur teams turn order authority by playing the mech

lament dawn
#

zeilinger is an exception

zenith star
#

I really thought I had peaked with homebrew nonsense with the Stumpp/Hund being a fully functional, non-C/C altering Werefolf mech and you sent this shit into my thread within the week.

lament dawn
#

zeilinger is the closest I could get to breaking the game while still barely actually affecting the paradigm of the game

#

genuinely sunzi does more to change the game than zeilinger

zenith star
#

Boutta make a 2 Zeilinger 2 Amber Phantom comp and get arrested for tRPG aggravated assault

lament dawn
#

because the zeilinger has to blow a quick on popping its active

crisp moss
lament dawn
#

lol true

#

but ye my point is I am very balance first, the zeilinger is deranged in a way that is only even beneficial to you if you play and build it carefully

zenith star
#

There is a part of the erratas that clarify falling as an involuntary movement for purposes like overwatch and other things. So rules as written the Sunzi cannot fall.

lament dawn
#

but is gravity a character

#

lol if the sunzi jumps off a cliff it absolutely falls

#

if someone shoves it, that is questionable

#

but it does say other characters

#

jumping off a cliff is sunzi induced

zenith star
#

What if you are Puppeted Systemed?

lament dawn
#

then yes that is questionable

zenith star
#

Because it counts as voluntary, but the falling is caused by another character

#

Truly important discourse that will surely affect many a game.

#

I must now make a youtube short about this.

crisp moss
#

i have been tempted to get on youtube, there is a massive lack of lancer content

#

but i would be WAY too much work and im lazy

lament dawn
#

whoops

crisp moss
#

and i dont have much to say

crisp moss
zenith star
#

I would love to try and direct some of my sporadically vectored passions into making videos about many things. But my motivation is randomly generated each day and often cannot afford that tax amongst working on all of these projects.

crisp moss
#

yep

zenith star
#

It's bad sometimes.

crisp moss
#

yep

zenith star
#

I think the longest I went without finishing an art piece for tri-M was like, 2 months and then I did like 4 in two weeks.

lament dawn
#

lancer is hard to make content on

zenith star
#

Yeah the effort is rather massively divided.

lament dawn
#

I have considered it too, but my channel is a plane channel so like no one would watch

crisp moss
#

if i made art id be dead in the water and the sixth voice would not have happened

zenith star
#

I guess unless you commission.

crisp moss
#

i would watch lancer

lament dawn
#

and odds are yours probably arent

#

so like my videos would alienate you

crisp moss
#

idk fuck you

lament dawn
#

my buddies and I made a tier list based upon mech strenght

#

and we are 100% objectively correct, but youtube lancer enjoyes arent ready for it

crisp moss
#

oh god

zenith star
#

Post it.

crisp moss
#

its 100% dogshit

#

lemme see it

zenith star
#

I gotta farm engagement in here.

crisp moss
#

i have ONE mech that i will judge it by

zenith star
#

I think my lodestone balance mech is the Nelson.

crisp moss
#

what would you rate it?

#

mine is emperor

zenith star
#

Perfect center honestly.

crisp moss
#

you can tell who has never played with an emperor

zenith star
#

The Iskander is how I determine how much of a powergamer the person is.

crisp moss
#

i got a friend whos favorite mech is the iskander

#

or the alt

lament dawn
# zenith star I gotta farm engagement in here.

S tier is insane, dont need to explain what S tier means
A tier is a mech that does something very well, and that thing it does is good and not easily stopped
B tier is a mech that does soemthing well, but that thing is either sometimes outclassed or somewhat easily stopped
C tier is a mech that does something, but kinda just does it worse than other mechs
explodes is not a true D tier, it is really just saying we dont think manticore deserves unstable system

zenith star
crisp moss
#

heca being S teir is stupid

#

its dogshit

lament dawn
#

ushabti hide

#

that's it

#

that's all it does

crisp moss
#

not sure gimmick strategies count

lament dawn
#

mostly there to troll my friend who plays hecha

#

well

zenith star
#

howd you get an ushabti onto a heca

lament dawn
#

it's strong and not easily stopped by enemies lol

crisp moss
#

this is why we need banded tierlists

lament dawn
#

the ushabti but for hiding

#

the "im gonna hide and ur gonna like it"

crisp moss
#

nelson being c is crazy honestly

#

why is it so low

#

its not worse than the Atlas

lament dawn
#

worst bonus d6 in the game

#

skirmisher is good

zenith star
#

Oh I never noticed they changed razor swarm

crisp moss
#

im boosting like every turn

zenith star
#

Its beta version you could hack it I remember

lament dawn
#

why woudl you be doing that

zenith star
#

Okay not meming though where would you put the manticore?

crisp moss
#

because the dm in that game makes us move

#

objectives

zenith star
#

I think Manti is A just by stats and passives alone.

lament dawn
crisp moss
#

enemy team comps that just do objectives are monsterous

lament dawn
crisp moss
#

i am one of 3 players and im the only one doing anything

#

like ever

lament dawn
#

core book maps arent big enough to justify boost spamming unless ur throwing

zenith star
lament dawn
#

if u have to be omnipresent and carry then yeah boosting is probably good for u

crisp moss
#

true, but ive dmd for nelsons who also boost a bunch

#

what else you gonna do? barage? maybe

#

but movement is always useful

zenith star
crisp moss
#

it is map and dm dependent too

lament dawn
crisp moss
#

having objectives that require a lot of work to put in

lament dawn
#

at high LL's, one of the many other insane quicks in the game

crisp moss
#

changes the whole feel of the game

zenith star
#

Its why I put the Nelson dead center, I can't make any big arguments for it being horrible but it is outclassed by most d6 passives

#

It's stats are okay and it has the "in IPSN buff"

lament dawn
#

I do believe it is in every way worse than amber phantom at its job

#

like ok

#

yes you want to boost

#

the amber phantom can like, also boost

#

and just do what nelson does

crisp moss
#

okay that is true

#

amber phantom is just free damage

#

100% of the time

zenith star
#

I count everything KTB and beyond as kind of powercreep. I still like the stuff. But its powercreep.

lament dawn
#

I mean

#

a lot of core book mechs remain our our A tier

#

blackbeard is really vulnerable but ultimately the motherfucker with 1 armor 12 HP, a heavy mount that is grappling you from range 5 remains quite scary

crisp moss
#

also stort not S teir is

#

crazy

lament dawn
#

OH OLD LIST

#

WHOOPS

#

iskander and stort should be S

crisp moss
#

stort is

#

stort

lament dawn
#

stort does the most fucking damage you will ever see

crisp moss
#

thank you stort, very cool

lament dawn
#

but yeah, our list is actually much more correct than you hard originally expected Im sure

zenith star
lament dawn
#

as it is 100% correct

#

barring the errors because its an old screenshot

zenith star
lament dawn
#

I and my freinds will die on the "nelson is bad" hill

#

skirmisher is good

#

but it's just like