Al's Talent rework

[haughty dust]

I changed it before it was ever used

[subtle sapphire]

If it didn’t get tested, maybe try it? I don’t know, your stuff, not mine

[visual rivet]

I think self slow until end of turn is a good idea
<- has done the same thing before

[haughty dust]

I'd like to see how juggernaut functions now

Before further tweaks

[dire umbra]

You will, it just makes my Nelson plan incredibly sad

[haughty dust]

Unless it's just a thing that makes people so averse they never take it

[dire umbra]

It's just horrible to experience on arguably the one frame that wants it the most

I'll do it, but I'll complain the whole way you know ?

[subtle sapphire]

Maybe be a little more tactful lol

[haughty dust]

It's tricky... Because it's effectively a "free overcharge for a ram" seems quite potent as a bonus on top of a boost

[dire umbra]

'course, this is mainly me joshin' around

[dire umbra]

I get that, yeah.
It's just that the Boost+Ram Talent having anti-synergy with the Boost+least bad to ram with Frame feels odd. Especially since Jugg also likes mobility for many a reason (it's the boost+ talent, having mobility is very important to line up targets for rank 1, ...)

But consider also, not everyone's gonna be boosting or ramming most turns, and the most damage-efficient strategies don't plan on doing those either; so letting you boost+ram every turn is strong, yes, but that's still one less action to spend on other stuff on your turn

Boost + ram is really good, but it's not always the best thing you could do

[visual rivet]

If you don't want to give a free ram every turn it could always simply prevent you from doing the action again until the end of your next turn like blackthumb rodeo does

(Unless you have a Spotter 3 in your group giving you an action right after your turn every time but yknow )

[haughty dust]

I don't like the black thumb solution

[visual rivet]

Alright

[haughty dust]

But it's not the "free ram every turn" I'm too concerned about it's the "strict upgrade that's just better than a default option in every way, which I'm more weary about because it grants a free action too"

Guh

[subtle sapphire]

It’s good to be wary about free actions, this is fair

When in doubt, I add a heat cost

[haughty dust]

Yeah, I didn't really want to because second level does

"you may prevent taking this slow by taking 1d3 heat instead"

🤔

[subtle sapphire]

I guess the question I have is “how do you envision this ram charge being used”

It’s not meant to be at-will, that’s apparent

Is this like, a Pankrati charge, adrenaline burst thing

[haughty dust]

If someone is where you aren't and you don't want them being there

Or someone is where you want to boost and you want them dead

[subtle sapphire]

So “if there is a distance to be closed, use this option”

[haughty dust]

Which both of those scenarios seem pretty common to me

[subtle sapphire]

Right so you want this to be used when there’s distance to be closed, but you don’t want it spammed willy-nilly

The most egregious offender would be the mech that wants to boost all the time (everyone else would just Boost or Ram, barring other incentives to do either)

[haughty dust]

That's what I'm worried about

Mechs that want to boost all the time

But then again it's forced straight lines...

You can't run around a corner at speed 8. You need to start that boost 8 tiles in a straight line to a target

And even if you wanted to ram + skirmish someone in point blank you'll still trigger an overwatch first

Maybe the straight line is just enough...

[subtle sapphire]

The other option

Is “full action double boost + free ram”

But I don’t know if you’ve dismissed that yet

Full action prevents spamming, it quickly gets you over there, and you still get an extra Ram out of it

[haughty dust]

I haven't... But making it a FA isn't really what I want from it.. however that could be a good idea for spearhead charge if that remains underwhelming

[subtle sapphire]

Gotcha, understood

My closest touchpoint right now is like, the PF2E Barbarian’s charge, which is 2 actions (in a 3 action system) to move twice speed in a straight line and Strike

But, Lancer is a Move + 2 actions game

[dire umbra]

It also doesn't have duplicate action restriction so

[subtle sapphire]

Which does open the possibility for “use your standard move + a quick action” design tbf, buuuut maybe not what you’re looking for?

[haughty dust]

Juggernaut I wanted to merge and make into a quick because a full for a boost + ram which is what the default talent was felt underwhelming

Not full

Was Quick and quick

Maybe straight line boost is more limiting than I give credit

I could just make it what I feel to be op so I can either prove myself wrong or prove myself right

[dire umbra]

In any case, I will be bringing a Jugg nelson so just let me know what version you want me to try

[subtle sapphire]

You’re justified in sticking to your guns

[dire umbra]

While we're on the subject, would you rather I bring titanomachy mesh or should I do what I wanted to intially and just go sloped ?

[haughty dust]

Your choice

[dire umbra]

Can't believe I'd get tricked into making a choice smh

Oh well

This should help me decide :

Realised this is probably more appropriate here

[visual rivet]

(funny typo)

[dire umbra]

Huh ?

[visual rivet]

there's an n missing in knockback

[dire umbra]

Oh fuck, yeah

You know what sure. That's staying.

[haughty dust]

Yes and yes

Oh

Mmmmmmm

6 knockback max from the distance moved

Bonus knockback will stack on top of that

[nimble mantle]

hi, does this line in wa signature mean there needs to be a cover penalty on attack for punch through to take effect?
Gain +1 Accuracy against targets benefiting from cover.

[haughty dust]

Yes

Basically, it won't work on an attack with seeking

[nimble mantle]

aye

oh, and the weapon mod at tier 3 was added in as a way to implement the talent, not an actual mod right?

[haughty dust]

Does level 3 still have a weapon mod?

If so, that's a bug

[nimble mantle]

ic, im using the lcp file in the *drive folder btw

[haughty dust]

V0.5.0?

[nimble mantle]

yea

[normal dirge]

minor thing but it appears there's a small spelling mistake in the LCP

[haughty dust]

Oh I see

[haughty dust]

I had a thought

Impressive I know

What if I added access to more conditional accuracy but also added a clause that you can only benefit from 1 source of accuracy from your own talents...

🤔

Idk if I'm fully sold but it seems like an idea

It feels like I'm fucking too much with rules outside of talents which feels like minor scope creep

Everything should ideally work by reading the talents and the talents alone. Any extra wording should only help with clarity

[obtuse onyx]

Oh damn those are rare, I got my last one a few days ago.

[haughty dust]

Yeah

Well I have a decent amount

But a lot of them just go in the shredder

[dire umbra]

It's certainly an idea, but especially with these new talents I don't really think you need that; mostly because accuracy stacking is already kinda bad.
Like, if you're stacking that much accuracy, you're already spending a lot of ranks and setup for really not that much benefit, is it really that bad to need to be fixed ?

[obtuse onyx]

The main issue with accuracy stacking isn’t having like 5 accuracy on an attack. It’s difficulty negation

[subtle sapphire]

That’s brainstorming for you

[obtuse onyx]

Having difficulty negation on its own isn’t bad, but with 1st party talents it’s pretty easy to do

Like at LL0, take Duelist, Pankrati, and idk Tac 1 Brawler is a better example, and you can shrug off a Crush Targeting

[subtle sapphire]

This is true, accuracy and difficulty can swing strongest around the “1 acc/diff” mark

That said, more acc means more things to negate

[haughty dust]

2 accuracy is potent because it can turn -1 into +1 ACC which is about a... 35% accuracy bonus???

[obtuse onyx]

Shrugging off crush targeting shouldn’t be impossible overall, but like… at LL0? Really???

[haughty dust]

But the issue isn't really from talents alone... It's the fact it stacks with autostab

[obtuse onyx]

The fact it’s so easy at early LLs is part of why it gets so bad with AutoStab later imo

[haughty dust]

Leader deserves to be the easiest floating accuracy

Luv leader,
'ate autostab

Simple as

[dire umbra]

Petition to replace AutoStab with Order of Leander(Leader but different) Forever.

[haughty dust]

Please

[haughty dust]

Need a name for level 1

Also debating if level 3 is better as that or "Mirrored Repository"

[visual rivet]

Pull request?

[haughty dust]

Thanks to reCaste It has now been called git push Origin Master --force

[dire umbra]

ooo that looks nice

[haughty dust]

V0.5.1 :O

Google doc in pins...

CAHANNNGLEOGGGG :>

[dire umbra]

Also I never looked at this Ace 3 but holy it's cool as shit

[haughty dust]

Oops the changelog wasn't finished for ace 3. Addded some more words to that

[dire umbra]

I'VE GOT IT !

[haughty dust]

Ruh roh

[dire umbra]

ace 2's new name always felt meh to me for being so close to skirmisher 1

[haughty dust]

Wait piss I think I fucked it for ace

Oops

[dire umbra]

so, instead, I have finally found a better name :
Barrel Roll
:)

(or aileron roll if you wanna do a funny, both work)

[dire umbra]

how so ?

[haughty dust]

I made it so you need to be distant from terrain to prevent using Sunzi shenanigans as a protocol

But I just realised the tile below you is still a valid space for a blinkspace tunneler

Wait

Wait you can supersonic boost into crack shot sharp eye

That's kinda cool

[dire umbra]

as long as you don't mind falling immediately, yeah

which isn't that bad, you're right where you want to be !

[haughty dust]

You can end the boost on land

[dire umbra]

also, yes. But then you miss out on the superhero landing.

hmm. Decimation 3 is... sad ?
Something something reassign mark as a reaction if you kill it ?

clashes with the current version, but I'd much rather that than the current rank 3.

[nimble mantle]

HOLY SHI ALLY INVADE TALENT AOHAERUGTEY

given that there's already flurry of blow and reckless attack: petition for a hunter talent name ranger that revolves around Hunter Mark like HG Decimation

suggestion, i remember you want official content only for playtest but i think using condition like dazed or blinded would clean up some space? for example, infiltrator 2 and 3 tier.

[nimble mantle]

Ace 3 - Supersonic

I think this part unless Immobilized from any other sources could be written as unless you'd become Immobilized because of any other effect for clarity.

[haughty dust]

As much as I'd like to. I'm not implementing new statuses or conditions as that would be scope creep

[haughty dust]

I'm already comfortable with my two variants of hunter and currently don't need a 3rd

But I appreciate the enthusiasm

[dire umbra]

Bumping both of these back up

[dire umbra]

.

[haughty dust]

Yeah I read them dw

[dire umbra]

Biggest issue I can see with it is it can't have the duration extension on top because that'd lead to kill stealing being both possible and a problem.
Other than that, I really like it

[haughty dust]

I want to see decimation further before any further changes

[visual rivet]

✋🏼 I would like to make a suggestion regarding skirmisher 1

[haughty dust]

ok

[visual rivet]

The intent is to make it harder for you to get hit when you're attacked during your movement, which unless there is a sniper involved is almost certainly going to be Overwatch, right?

[dire umbra]

Or archer

[visual rivet]

Or archer, right

Forgot about archers

[haughty dust]

What is your feedback for level 1?

[visual rivet]

Most overwatches you'd eat are melee attacks in this case so I don't think soft cover is very useful. I think a flat 1 difficulty on reaction attacks against you would be way more usable, especially when the rest of the talent seemingly wants you to actively trigger as many reactions as you can get away with.

[haughty dust]

I've considered it, the pproblem with flat difficulty reduction is it stacks with other sources, whereas cover is already a pre-established thingg within the game with its own counters, etc

[normal dirge]

you do make a good point though

how many overwatchers have ranged attacks

(as in things that regularly get overwatches off)

[visual rivet]

That's true but then the "dodge reactions" talent does nothign against berserkers, ronins, cataphracts, assassins, all the things you'd expect and regularly see hugging you that would get overwatches off relatively often

Sentinels. I forgot sentinels. That's another one where the talent would work.

But that's like 2 NPCs with a third one if they have the correct optional

[haughty dust]

It's a level 1 talent ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[nimble mantle]

u do have infiltrator for that tho

[haughty dust]

You can't use infiltrator if you are engaged

But threat 2, yeah it works

[nimble mantle]

yeah, i mean the current identity of skirmisher is fine on its own

[haughty dust]

Like, don't get me wrong. I hear you... But I still see it as valuable but not as niche as it is being stated to be. One of the things that the talent reworks allows is for you to enter situations that might be more foolish if you entered that situation pprior. But by having access to tools you can pick your fights and situations with the ones you would be strong about. For example Skirmisher 1 allows you from the CRB roster (and rebake) move from adjacency more comfortably from:

• Assaults (They can be in close range with a knife and reliable OR rebake flank)
• Archers
• Assassin Devils cough
• Breacher ( )
• Rebake engineer overwatch turrets
• Goliath
• Hornet
• Scourer (Cancel innate accuracy from engaged and soft cover)
• Sentinel

It still feels like it has a decent number of use cases for a level 1 talent. It's not perfect but that's why it's level 1

I'd like to see it in play further before I make any further changes

[fading flax]

enemies with ranged overwatches at threat 2+ or other reaction attacks to player movement, to prove it's not an issue:
CRB -

Archer
Berserker (optionals include 2 threat 3 ranged weapons)
Breacher
Goliath
Hornet
Sentinel
Sniper
Specter (if monowire is destroyed, an optional gives it a threat 3 ranged weapon, though this is admitted not likely)

Rebake -

Assault (Fix and Flank in reaction to one of it's allies' overwatches)
Archer
Berserker
Breacher
Cataphract (Ranged ram cannon, if impaired would be a more favourable downside on crit than knockback, softcover decreases the likelihood of that coming into effect)
Engineer (Auto Tracking in reaction to one of it's allies' overwatches)
Goliath
Hornet
Sentinel
Sniper
Specter (see crb)

And also any unit with only ranged weapons from engagement

idk it doesn't seem like an issue

[fading flax]

damn i got beaten to it

[haughty dust]

Hey you did more research

Forgot about zerkers optional

[fading flax]

harpoon gun is a pretty important one to get to miss, as well

[haughty dust]

Ye

[visual rivet]

Very well, exploding and going back to the depths

[normal dirge]

Blows up Léo with mind

[haughty dust]

So I've been pplaying trench crusade recently

Great game

Skirmish wargame

It likes playing with verticality, I was thinking about ways to get accuracy for an AMR then remembered height advantage is not a thing in lancer without tactician

"Ok so if I want to change tactician level 3 at all... What inspiration could I take from trennch crusade"
I thought to myself... Well, height advantage is real important because +Dice (Accuracy) is really rare in trench crusade

Outside of it... That's the only motivation... Getting bonuses to hit are uncommon as fuck

But why else is verticality so much more important?

Oh yeah... It also gives bonuses in melee if you jump on someone

Maybe I should make a melee tactician variant

Level 1 -

1/round if you make a melee attack while falling, you may gain +1 accuracy. On hit you also calculate fall damage from point where you made the attack instead of the start of the fall.

Level 2 -

When you use (LEVEL 1) when falling at-least 3 spaces, you may add +1 difficulty to the attack. On a critical hit you deal +1d6 bonus damage.

Level 3 -

When you use (LEVEL 1) you may also attempt to topple the target if you are falling at-least 3 space, if you do so on hit the target is knocked prone. On a miss, you are knocked prone once you finish the fall. If you topple a flying character, they immediately stop flying on hit.

[fading flax]

crack shot but instead of breaking your legs prior for accuracy on rifles, you break your legs when you land for accuracy on melees

[haughty dust]

Yeah kinda

I was thinking about that for level 3. Just keep it the exact same as crack shot

[blazing swallow]

I'm sure it'd be balanced since it halves effective movement but is the intent that you can "fall" by just using your movement to jump or is the idea you need to assassin's creed off a crate to get the bonus

[haughty dust]

IDK

That's the players problem to figure out

[blazing swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/dante-dante-devil-may-cry-devil-may-cry5-hello-hello-based-department-gif-26042779

[dire umbra]

The only mech that can enable more than rank 1 by jumping is the Barb, and I think it deserves it.
Otherwise, that's killing all of your movement but one space for one accuracy on one attack, while also triggering overwatches and such.

[haughty dust]

RBJJ, Kai bio plating, jumping off cliffs

I'd probably add a free action "if flying: stop" to the talent which should be a thing normally but hey ho

[ocean knot]

roes Jager Kunst 1 count as falling

[haughty dust]

No, but the end of it could be

[dire umbra]

RBJJ means you commit a whole boost to it (and 2SP), and Kai... yeah. At least that's still comitting one CB and 3 SSC LL.

[haughty dust]

Type 1 flight with JK1. So your backflips can be flight so you can fly above someone then drop

https://klipy.com/gifs/kratos-26

New Nelson build just dropped

[fading flax]

mourning cloak with really bad lag who keeps rubberbanding back up

[dire umbra]

If you fuck up your attack and take fall damage, you can always just singularity motivator back up the cliff !

[fading flax]

the market gardener worms it's way into this supplement one way or another

[dire umbra]

Combined arms Laws of motion melee tactician

[haughty dust]

You can trigger the soft cover from combined arms by attacking yourself

[fading flax]

perfect

[dire umbra]

Exactly the plan

[fading flax]

know what i'm bringing to the playtest after the upcoming one

[dire umbra]

Also been meaning to ask btw, can you trigger the burst explosion on yourself when you rocket jump ?

[haughty dust]

🤔

Yeah I guess

[ocean knot]

Where is the document with all the talents and their ranks?

[haughty dust]

Pins

[visual rivet]

Don't you start falling at the end of the turn?

[dire umbra]

Shush

[haughty dust]

I think you stop flying at the end of the turn????

IDK

Like... IG if I walk off a cliff I... Stay there loony toons style?

[dire umbra]

That's probably the most ignored/handwaived rule anyways

[visual rivet]

"Unless specified otherwise, characters start to fall at
the end of the current turn, and fall at the end of each
of their turns thereafter"

[fading flax]

I would personally say that once you start falling, if you're still airborne after the forced movement (gravity) then you're still "falling" when you next take action suspended in the air

[dire umbra]

Consider also :
Shush
Don't need that negativity around here.
For this rule, I simply pretend I do not see it

[visual rivet]

RBJJ does say you immediately start falling if you're in the air when you finish your boost though which is funny

[dire umbra]

Most flight stuff does

[blazing swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/arriba-gif-12324188786972117417

[visual rivet]

Using boosters -> Fall immediately
Walking off a cliff -> Looney tunes activates

[blazing swallow]

the grunt scout watching big barb return to earth

[fading flax]

additionally you could set this up as an action a player with the talent can take - something along the lines of:

QA(?)
Descending Strike
End your turn and begin falling, you may skirmish the first enemy that enters your threat during this movement with a (mount) melee weapon.
You may only take this action while above the ground. 

worded better by someone smarter than me but I think the concept comes across

make it eat overwatch if you want to be mean to melee users, ig

but with pankrati out the picture in the upcoming playtests and likely overhauled when it gets looked at, I don't think melee deserves being mean to

[blazing swallow]

is it worth making it "your turn ends immediately after taking this quick action"? for the purpose of it still being an attack on your turn

[fading flax]

i think the implication with that is that falling then occurs twice? Once due to the quick and again due to end of turn

[blazing swallow]

but youve fallen at that point

[haughty dust]

The assault could have been more cheeked up

[fading flax]

possibly

[haughty dust]

Or a lich

Save scum the miss

"Additionally, as a free action whilst airborne you may begin falling (page XX.), if you are currently flying you stop"

[fading flax]

honestly this is rule I play with silently anyway

[haughty dust]

Yeah

[normal dirge]

isnt this valk's drop prone action

[haughty dust]

No because you don't drop prone

[dire umbra]

This is what I meant by my "shush"s yep. People just run it like that anyways

[haughty dust]

"you must fully resolve the fall before committing to any further movement"

[normal dirge]

oh wait hold on

lancer doesnt prone you if you fall does it

thats like every other system i play so i forgor

[dire umbra]

You also can't be proned while flying anyways

[normal dirge]

yeah

[visual rivet]

Which means heavyweight 3 is free if you're flying

-# (It's about to become un-free in the next 24 hours)

[haughty dust]

I have been aware of this since I made it

[visual rivet]

Nevermind then

[dire umbra]

Thinking on all this and realised : 3rd law doesn't let you gain height unless you can already fly, sad (pwease ? 🥺); also, does the "and you are not pushed away from yourself" mean you only get the 4 kb from the attack for all your trouble ?

[haughty dust]

Yes

[dire umbra]

'cause that's a lot for exceptionally little then (QA, self damage. Might as well boost and eat the overwatch at this point)

[haughty dust]

Did you know iconoclast users are immune to involuntary movement, including falling. However unless flying or climbing must hover 1 space above the ground at all times. So if a character is pushed off a height 100 wall, it will take them 10 turns to reach the bottom. Where a transcending iconoclast will just clip to the bottom immediately

[fading flax]

the horrors

[normal dirge]

thank you lancer very cool

[dire umbra]

This is why Iconoclast simply isn't real.

[obtuse onyx]

Oh hell yeah Elevator Clip on a PC

[visual rivet]

Sunzi cannot fall

[dire umbra]

Wrong

Gravity is not a hostile character

[visual rivet]

It's hostile to me

[normal dirge]

"Gravity is involuntary movement" yeah well I'm slapping you

[visual rivet]

I have a life long feud with gravity*

[dire umbra]

However, a fortress protocol Drake cannot fall

[normal dirge]

this is beyond shoe rule

this is the entire shoe drawer rule

[visual rivet]

Also it's not hostile characters it's just other characters

[dire umbra]

Better than gravity triggering reactions ig ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[visual rivet]

so I may be wrong but so are you

[dire umbra]

Sure

[visual rivet]

I'm taking you down with me

[haughty dust]

The main part of the talent is the fact it's up to knockback 4 and you can kick off walls. To me the rocket jump is not essential but a bonus you can capitalise off

Also a URPL with further knockback can increase it. Titanomachy can increase it, Cali weapon mod can increase it. And it can be performed by an integrated aux vijiya

[normal dirge]

as if. by gravity. one could say

[haughty dust]

Unsure about titanomachy

[visual rivet]

Nah titanomachy is melee

unless you have a melee launcher

[haughty dust]

Also you can do it while immobilised and slowed

[normal dirge]

the one thing that puts me off about it is the chance to miss yourself

[visual rivet]

no you hit automatically

[obtuse onyx]

Thank you for further validating my thus far not yet relevant house rule of moving Anchor from Sunzi to Minotaur

[normal dirge]

wait maybe i misread

nevermind then

[normal dirge]

sunzi shouldve never had anchor in the first place lmao

[obtuse onyx]

That’s what I’m saying

You can’t be both an unstoppable force AND an immovable object

[dire umbra]

No and no, actually. Titano is melee attacks, andSupermassive isn't usable on launchers. Otherwise, U-RPL is hitting yourself with a whole-ass heavy of the "big damage" variety, shit hurts.

[haughty dust]

Wait supermassive isn't on launchers?

[visual rivet]

nope

[normal dirge]

specifically only viceroy can supermassive urpl

[visual rivet]

cqb melee and cannons

[haughty dust]

That's silly

[normal dirge]

deeply so

[obtuse onyx]

it should be -3-

[normal dirge]

the real question is why is urpl a launcher

[visual rivet]

because it launches missiles

[normal dirge]

OTHER than flavour

[obtuse onyx]

Stormbringer?

[dire umbra]

I am also ignoring the case of the viceroy for this, one outlier shouldn't make the talent bad for everyone else

[visual rivet]

the only thing I want on laws of motion 3 is the ability to launch yourself upwards without having to have flight

[normal dirge]

oh for sure

[obtuse onyx]

Hang on. Stormbringer 2 inflicts Knockback

[normal dirge]

the people want to rocket jump

[visual rivet]

To me it's already a cool talent, I just wanna go upwards

Cherry on top

[obtuse onyx]

… I gotta go to #mech-hangar rq

[normal dirge]

its unfortunately less good than you'd think on caliban bc of the self knockback

its net neutral on movement in the end

[obtuse onyx]

Oh I’m not talking about Lightning

[normal dirge]

oh? intriguing

[dire umbra]

LAUNCHER: Weapons that fire missiles, grenades, or other projectiles.

[visual rivet]

Behold, a launcher

It fires "Other projectiles ™"

[normal dirge]

that "other projectile" is about to be you when i get you

[fading flax]

how is cannon defined by lancer?

[haughty dust]

"other"

[visual rivet]

"Cannons are high-caliber weapons useful for
inflicting heavy damage on enemies. What they
lack in precision, they usually make up for in
power."

[dire umbra]

Got there first

[normal dirge]

can a laser have a calibre

[haughty dust]

Photons

[dire umbra]

Lens size

[visual rivet]

500 MWh

[normal dirge]

i think photons are not known for their large size, believe it or not

[dire umbra]

Wattage too yeah

[fading flax]

the andromeda-pattern heavy rifle in question

[dire umbra]

Also that

[haughty dust]

40mms of photons

Laser brick

[visual rivet]

Andromeda sure has good range and stopping power

[normal dirge]

this way lies madness

[fading flax]

patented Harrison Armories photon brick

[visual rivet]

reCaste that's just Hardlight

[haughty dust]

Gravity gun is a rifle

[visual rivet]

Gravity gun definitely has stopping power

[normal dirge]

im going to lose it

why are lancer weapons lancer weapons

[visual rivet]

Unraveler is a launcher
What the hell is the projectile

[dire umbra]

What the hell is the gun ?

[fading flax]

the unravelaveler

that's what it launches

[dire umbra]

Honestly, that's what the "other projectiles" is for. 'cause it sure as hell shoots something

[normal dirge]

it launcher unravels

[visual rivet]

I think Cat is having a stroke

[fading flax]

so true

[visual rivet]

nevermind, stroke fixed

[normal dirge]

i cannto type today

apprently

its getting worse

[dire umbra]

Wait until she sees crisis core catalogue

[visual rivet]

I have something for this before going back on topic

[haughty dust]

But also, rocket jumping. It isn't meant to be hyper optimal but that's why the rest of the talent level exists

[dire umbra]

It's just that you're giving the people rocket jumps with no good rocket to jump; the only launcher that isn't U-RPL with knockback is concussions, who even have nice, low damage on top, but they come with the nasty save vs. impaired so that's still a big ask

[haughty dust]

I'll be honest. I'm more likely to remove rocket jumping than buff it

It's there because I thought it's funny and that it should be an option

A good one? Depends how it's played out

The main focus of the talent is increasing knockback at the cost of self movement. But there's other tools in the game to limit the self knockback. Such as standing in front of a wall

Level 3s focus is that you now gain knockback 2-4 (your choice) and that if you are positioned against a wall you may move that many spaces even if slowed or immobilised

In the white room scenario of shoot yourself or tank an overwatch. The optimal decision is probably to just shoot them and move 8 tiles from each other

However making rocket jump flight is funny so I'll consider that buff

[haughty dust]

I had a cool thought of a new talent... Alas it is out of scope for this

[dire umbra]

Make it paid DLC content

it's that easy

[haughty dust]

I think it would be neat for a supplement

[haughty dust]

Oh shit my brain wandered

Anyway

A talent oriented around environmental conditions would be neat

Like, accuracy on checks against dangerous terrain, resistance to environmental damage, better at forcing enemies to struggle with the environment

[grim rain]

I think it'd be a touch odd to balance cause like. How much both of those are present in a given scene is almost entirely up to the gm

It'd be neat though

[haughty dust]

Yeah ultimately

if it was tied to a campaign book I would have the trust that it would be useful in that adventure

[haughty dust]

Thinking about supersonic boost and realising protocol movement is kinda crazy

Move -> crack shot aimed shot

Move -> Anni nexus burst

Kinda funny

Anni nexus hard since it would require a quick last turn

Move -> Capture a Valk control point

[dire umbra]

that might actually be the best usecase for it actually

if you manage to get in range of 2+ points and rev up, you force the GM to contest both or just lose a point

[haughty dust]

Interesting but not what I want to balance it around

[dire umbra]

of course

[haughty dust]

What if infiltrator played around areas of soft cover + Hidden

Like, replace level 3 with a hide variant that also shits out a GMS smoke grenade on your feet

And make like 1/scene when you place an area of soft cover it becomes until end of scene

[nimble mantle]

Hi, just to be sure, the allied character is user's ally right?

Do you think it's easier to cut the allied part from the textbox if that's the case?

[visual rivet]

That would make it so that you can react to your own attacks which is probably not the intent

[nimble mantle]

ooh true

[haughty dust]

Thinking more on talent design and intent. Thinking on HG: Decimation and Infiltrator

[nimble mantle]

has Al become a Think Tank?

[haughty dust]

No

Wait

Yes

[visual rivet]

You are thinking, but are you a tank

[haughty dust]

Infiltrator I am going to change. After more pondering I have come to the realisation that it has clashing intent in what it achieves. Level 1 grants easier access to hiding and remaining hidden during your turn. Level 2 grants benefits if you start your turn hidden and level 3 grants a contigency plan if you break hidden.

Rank 1 - Is fine. I could improve it but I don't think I need to
Rank 2 - Is neat but after further inspection it's a lot on a save. I have made other things make a save for less... I could probably remove the save or change the effects.
Rank 3 - Just doesn't work. Its best use is a free other boost after rank 1 fails at the end of your turn and you end your turn adjacent to an enemy you want to blind. This leads to it being a 3 level talent dip into something that clashes with the talent identity encouraging breaking hidden more than keepinng hidden. By removing the bonus boost shenanigans it makes it INCREDIBLY mid, now you can't control the blind effect and it's easier to be revealed by someone at range than at adjacency.

Ok so rank 3 needs to change and maybe 2 does. What can be done?

Ideas:

1. Remove the adjacency requirement, limit it to the person who revealed you and sensors. Throw some garbled code at their sensors and fuck them over. This would discourage enemies from revealing hidden and mean that there's more incentive to use the talent for it's intended use
2. Remove the talent level and replace it with something new. The idea I have is something to make hiding easier encouraging use of soft cover as soft cover is great for hiding. "1/round when you move wholly into a an area of soft cover during your turn, if you have not made an (attack/hostile action/forced a save) this turn you may immediately hide as free action. However if you hide this way you cannot make any (attacks/hostile actions/force saves) for the rest of the turn)

Option 2 however has a clashing identity with level 2. Which could be a problem. But making the talent tie more into areas of soft cover to assist with your hiding I think seems neat to me. It might be somewhat pigeonholey in design but it is the most reliable method of invisibility outside of invis. Soft cover is more accessible and usually comes with less costs than invis

And even then, I could add "or you are invisible" to the "wholly within area of soft cover" clause

As for Decimation I have had more thoughts. Right now I want more data, Decimation is not going to change without more datas

However I have had reports from 2 sources that decimation doesn't look worth it without rank 3. I don't see it as much as others are saying and will expplain my design intent: It is meant to work alongside things like ordnance, Sheavies and other long range weapons that might immobilise or slow you. Threatening enemies within LOS to remain out of LOS and long range or eat shit. Heavy weapons tend to have higher and more valuable damage die for re-rolling damage. It's somewhat another option of what do I do with my turn other than lock on of shame if I can't attack, especially if you moved/boosted with and ordnance/sheavy weapon this turn. It's meant to be kind of like a lock on variant. Threaten the ace, specter or other random goon with high damage and an attack that can't be forced to miss And if you're dealing enough damage you don't need to attack twice. With level 3 being less punishing towards multi-structure or healthy enemies that will require a LOT of attacks to kill

But from others perspective it's a cool mark you slap on someone and it just doesn't feel like it's worth the action economy to be applying it every turn

Well hell, hunter lock is until death and that isn't a must have pick 🤔

Alas, like I mentioned I'm not changing it without further data but I had some ideas of if I were to change it.

You may only mark 1 character for decimation, any new ones remove the prior. They last until death or re-applied (Or maybe just until death/structure).

If you perform a hostile action to a character who is NOT marked by you, you must either swallow your pride or learn to forgive. If you swallow your pride all attacks within that action are made at +1 Difficulty and saves are forced with +1 Accuracy. If you Learn to forgive you remove your active mark for decimation. Then make level 3 just remove this concept

[nimble mantle]

I have a (likely not so good) idea: mastermind allow you to hide while engaged and can use hostile character for hard cover

that does *at least sounds infiltrator right

[haughty dust]

I appreciate the thoughts but right now I'm brainstorming my own ideas and not looking for suggestions

[dire umbra]

The only thing I'd say for decimation is that rank 2 needing the delay to work instead of just working further sours the deal imo

Unfortunately I don't really have a heavy to test with so I can't help more with this

[haughty dust]

Unfortunately, it's more likely that the damage will also be moved to next turn than moving the ignore invis to the current turn

If I'm having ignore invis/forced miss I'd want more nuance than just a quick action

I my mind, the weapon type this is meant to be more cohesive for is long range ordnance

[haughty dust]

I had another funny idea

I probably shouldn't do it

Due to feature creep

And power creep

But what if engineer weapon you could choose the weapon size (damage remains unchanged), so it can be an aux, main or heavy...

Just for the sake of talents

Me throwing my limited 7 1d6+4 throwing sword as a free action

You know what, I take it back

[haughty dust]

Grease monkey rework

Grease monkey: Finely tuned

Rank 1:

• When you stabilise and choose to clear an allies conditions, they now need to be within range 3 rather than adjacent.
  Rank 2
• When you stabilise you may clear all conditions, if you choose to stabilise an allies conditions you may forgo clearing your own conditions to clear theirs instead
  Rank 3
• When you clear an allies conditions via stabilise. They gain over shield equal to twice the number of cleared conditions

Grease monkey: additional provisions

Rank 1

• Grease monkey 1 default
  Rank 2
• Gain access to the supply backpack integrated system

Supply backpack

0SP, limited 1
When you perform a rest, you may spend as many charges from this system as you wish to replenish an equal amount of limited charges to your allies equipment

Gain access to the automated loader reaction:

Automated loader

Trigger: An ally within range 3 consumes a limited charge
Effect: consume a limited charge from this system, then replenish a limited charge to the weapon or system that triggered the reaction

Rank 3:
Grease monkey 3 default

"MY LIIIIEEEEGE"

"I HAVE COME TO RELOAD YOUR DAISY CUTTER MY LIIIIEEEEGE!!!!"

Why: Grease monkey irked me because 1/3 of the ranks was disconnected. I had an idea to split it and have an individual talents 1 based around stabilising and 1 based around limited systems while trying to keep a similar power scale

However doing so would boost the power level of both of those things, which grease monkey didn't need a power boost as it was comfortable how it is

So I decided to boost the power level of grease monkey via reorienting it so the buffs affect allies instead of yourself. Which I see as a win win as it leads towards more support based talents, boosting power for support talents but still keeping the talents themselves to be as strong as before if not playing via the new playstyle

However... I honestly don't believe these two need to be mutually exclusive

[dire umbra]

Aside from wording adjustments that don't affect the mechanics, I can confirm that you cooked with this one

[haughty dust]

Yeah it was a rough sketch so wording is wack

But sick. Good to know

[dire umbra]

Only mildly concerned about finely tuned 3

But double the amount of cleared conditions would be insane so...

Maybe X+[cleared conditions] ? Idk if X is 2, 3, grit, and if it should apply even if you didn't clear any conditions

[haughty dust]

See it in play

Like, you're using a full action for condition clear. The player you're using it on needs to be in range and require a shit ton of conditions

[obtuse onyx]

I mean the max may be 14 but if a character has all 7 conditions in the game at once I think they need it

[haughty dust]

Well they don't need it anymore

14 is absurd but I'll probably never see that happen in play

[obtuse onyx]

If you consider only the conditions anyone can apply, that’s a maximum of 8 overshield, which is still high but you have to jump some hoops to get there

[dire umbra]

Oh wait it's already double the amount of conditions yeah
Missed that
Yeah then, willing to see it in play

[haughty dust]

Wait what did you think it was?

[dire umbra]

Only thing I'd maybe chnage then is whether it should also work on yourself

[obtuse onyx]

Most common scenario- you’re prone, grappled, locked on for some reason? and just got hacked. In this scenario the stabilize would only have slow and immobilize re-apply despite giving you OS so like you’re not getting as much out of this

[dire umbra]

Just 1xcleared OS

[haughty dust]

Probs not happening. I'd like to keep the talent more support oriented

I don't want an OC looping RSU Sherman to pick this up and gain overshield on top of their OCloop

[dire umbra]

Sure

[dire umbra]

I mean, they will anyways, they'll just keep out of rank 3

[haughty dust]

That's fine

[dire umbra]

Yeag

[haughty dust]

Hmmm

interesting

That's actually a good point

By it being mutually exclusive, a Sherman user will need to pick whether they care more about limited systems or the stabilise

[haughty dust]

I'm more worried about level 2 than 3 tbh

I need to double check what actually grants condition clear

[dire umbra]

Frames

And I guess Acseso

[haughty dust]

Not many frames

[dire umbra]

I had Kutuzov in mind and that's it

Just didn't want to say "just this guy" 'cause that's probably wrong

I guess PEBCAC too sometimes ?

Oh ! The mech snack !

And that's about it I think.

[haughty dust]

Lancaster

• Restock drone, 2 quick actions for 1 condition clear. 1ll limited system
• Aceso stabilisers, 1 quick, impaired and jammed clear and immunity
• Lancaster core: a lot of immunity

Kidd:

• PEBCAC, tech action based clear, 1ll

BW:

• iceout, see PEBCAC, 2ll

Lich

• Lich

Napoleon:

• Kutuzov parallel projectors - FA to clear 1 condition on top of another full action

Sherman:

• RSU, allows stabilise as a QA, 2ll

Gilgamesh:

• core power

For 2 LLs clear all of an allied conditions is probs too good... Level 2 could probs be kept the same and move level 2 to 3 alongside the OS

Idk

I mean...

Like a stabilise loop Lancaster is a bad thing

[dire umbra]

Is it really ?

Not like you'll have that many conditions to clear on the same guy every turn, too

[haughty dust]

Yeah

It's probably fine...

[dire umbra]

I'd be more concerned about the Kutu at this point, but even then that's still only gonna get you so far if you don't also bring other shit to do

[haughty dust]

The things I'm worried about stepping on the toes of would be systems that are a quick action, have better range but do more

Kuto can still use it's other bonuses

[dire umbra]

Also gives a rival to SysOp for the Kutu which is nice
Or more than a rival, a second talent it cares about.

[haughty dust]

I could just make level 3 "when you clear atleast 1 condition"

1/round

Pull a CRB level 3 weapon talent where they don't actually care about what weapon it's used for

If a kutu clears a condition when it does something else with a stabilise, congrats they now have 2 OS

[dire umbra]

I think that'd be fun yeah, at least deserving of a test

[haughty dust]

Eat a restock drone for 2 OS

[dire umbra]

(also iceout drone is the only immunity that doesn't actually clear jack, because it only suppresses instead of ends)

[haughty dust]

Yeah

But most tech action conditions last a turn anyway

[obtuse onyx]

Still doesn’t count as clearing for talent interaction purposes

[haughty dust]

True

Well, clearing and granting immunity would be a wording I'd need to write down

[dire umbra]

Thinking about Jugg some more and remembered to ask if not being able to ram someone with the charge if they're adjacent at the end of the move unless you collide with them was intentional, because that's a very relevant downside to the action actually (also technically a downgrade from Core if it wasn't one whole action more expensive)

not saying that part specifically needs to be changed necessarily, just that it is a targetting restriction that needs some setup to be worked around if it's intended

[haughty dust]

It is intended. Mostly because the knockback direction should be the direction of the charge. Basically you're putting your full might into running into someone

But worth seeing how meaningful it is in play

Because like... You're still getting a boost ram as a quick. Just need to see if it's on too much of a leash right now or too freeing

Or fine

I have no clue

Damn, if only like... We had a playtest soon to see if we can get some data

[dire umbra]

Honestly I like it as a limitation to the thing, but it on top of the self-slow that lasts forever might be a lot. And you know I'd rather see the slow go.

[haughty dust]

Lasts forever?

[dire umbra]

0 seconds

Was doing a goof

Sont is fair, I just don't know how necessary it is

[haughty dust]

We'll see

Like importantly though, for Cali or Nelson. You can move off the ram, the slow should come after

So a Cali can juggernaut charge, ram, pursue prey, become slowed

[dire umbra]

And I get to do my funny bullshit tonight >:)

[haughty dust]

🔥

It's fine

[dire umbra]

Not on the follow-up rams from the funni CB but hey

[haughty dust]

It's not like I'm at least 130 miles from home

[dire umbra]

Hold on let me convert that to my units

Okay yeah that's far

[haughty dust]

Let me read titanomachy

My beloved/beloathed

We'll see

[dire umbra]

I could always use titano before the charge if I care so much anyways

[haughty dust]

"once all triggering effects are resolved become slow" could be a change

Ig

[dire umbra]

But at that point the question becomes why inflict the slow at you get me ?

[haughty dust]

Yeah

Because I don't want it to be a straight better than ram in every way

I want it to be situationally better

Hard balance

[dire umbra]

Well for one you must be far from your target

If you're adjacent already it straight-up does nothing

[haughty dust]

I'm comparing it here to boost

Wait a minute

[dire umbra]

And if you're too close it burns your boost for the round for basically the same as a normal ram

[haughty dust]

Ok good berserkers have avalanche charge not juggernaut charge

[dire umbra]

And if we're comparing it to boost then, well it limits you to ending your boost inside of a guy to get any use out of it. Stops you from leveraging high threat weapons too hard and limits endpoints.

On top of the straight line thing

[dire umbra]

It's not a lot but it's not nothing, especially with the "need to collide" requirement

[haughty dust]

Mm yeah fair

Well

Perhaps I'm undervaluing the already existing limitstions

Alas, we'll see

I'm just worried with action compressions being "best in slot for action economy" if you get what I'm saying

Especially in a game more focused on choices and options more than linear scaling

Ideally action compressions are meant to be "if the stars align here's a perfect option you can do". And then it's the players choice to align the stars

Rewarding good playstyles

If I make a talent that just makes you better without much thought unless you were already playing into the existing playstyles (like vanguard or executioner) then I think it needs work

Action compression isn't really a thing that's been done in lancer so it's hard to get the good breakpoint of "great action", "too limiting" and "must have action"

Aaaand I've entered a tunnel so you're gonna see this message in like... 5-10 mins

Well that's just all these talents tbh

That's why I think I need to play stormtrooper. From my POV it looks really easy to achieve but I need to work around and play as a player to see how much mental gymnastics I need to jump through to achieve it

[nimble mantle]

oh uh hunter question, what do you think about allowing knife juggler to increase thrown range of weapon that already has thrown (maybe like 2 or 3)? it just feels kinda sad if you take an aux melee that already has thrown imo

[haughty dust]

I thought of it

Original hunter doesn't adjust throwing ranges of existing thrown weapons. It's extra words and decided it's probably not too worth it... Alas that isn't set in stone

What are the existing thrown ranges

GMs knife which has it's thrown range boosted by 2 and shock knives that have it's thrown range boosted by 0

Shock knives are already great anyway

[nimble mantle]

yea most would be a nerf and i dont think *shock knife need a buff

[haughty dust]

It's not nerfed, it's just not changed

And at level 1 you can still retrieve them all as a free action

You however can't retrieve a thrown war pike

[dire umbra]

I guess it's a fair trade for it being rank 1 now

[haughty dust]

It's an unfortunate consequences that when I want a talent to relate to a weapon type I want to to relate to only that weapon type

[dire umbra]

same way you removed all the other melee talents' cross-size interactions

[haughty dust]

Ya

[dire umbra]

not saying this as a critique btw, it's fine. Kinda sad for war pike gaming but "oh no shadow nerf to one of the best main melees in the game" isn't really something to be concerned of

[haughty dust]

Yeah lol

Now we need to go and pick up our thrown weapons like a nerd

Now I think I just realised if you use hunter 2 I think you can generate infinite attacks

wait...

🤔

Huh...

[dire umbra]

oh no

they've figured out my plan for tonight

[haughty dust]

There's just no limit to that

💀

[dire umbra]

well, 1/round

but yes

[haughty dust]

Yeah, but if you attack once you can attack every round as a free action

Oopsy :3

[dire umbra]

the plan very much was to just throw my one aux once at some point and then get the free rebounds every turn after that

[haughty dust]

Not he

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/566317602834743296/1371394582385922088/cooltext482351842164093.gif

[dire umbra]

ah fuck

sorry 'bout that

fixed, apologies

[dire umbra]

Trying to bury my horrible mistake before my shame kills me;

So is this a problem for you are are you good with that ? You'll get a test for it tonight either way, just wanna know so I can get to brainstorming early if it's needed

[haughty dust]

I can figure it out

Generally I'll ask for solutions if I want them but end of the day I can figure it out

[haughty dust]

Hunter rank 2:

1/round as a free action you may kick an adjacent Thrown Auxiliary melee weapon. Make an attack against a target in thrown range originating from the thrown weapon using the weapons profile.

This action may be performed during your own voluntary movement without interrupting it, and kicking a weapon this way does not count as throwing the weapon this turn for the sake of the other levels of this talent.

I never stated the thrown weapons need to be yours

[haughty dust]

Thinking about bunker buster terrain destruction being a MAY instead of a MUST

TBH, it's called collateral fire... IDK if it should be a may and if your allies are too close to your rampant destruction of the environment... Like it's in the name...

[dire umbra]

strange and unusual /pos

level 3 feels strange for walking back on all your benefits but the effect in itself is still good

[haughty dust]

Yeah... Unfortunately

But is just kind of a strange upgrade

[dire umbra]

it upgrades your versatility

which is good, but feels strange made like this

[haughty dust]

Level 2, FA Disengage -> Move 2 -> Skirmish

to

Level 3, QA Disengage -> Standard move -> Skirmish -> Move 2

Yeah agreed

[dire umbra]

also I felt like this was not really that good either until I realised it synergises with rank 1 and 3 amazingly and now I'm sold

[haughty dust]

Kicks EXTRUDE KNIFE

[dire umbra]

that "kicking a weapon this way does not count as throwing the weapon this turn for the sake of the other levels of this talent." is load-bearing but boy is it great

[haughty dust]

You can also just kick a knife as you walk past it

Because it's funny

[dire umbra]

that's the main point

[haughty dust]

This synergises with rank 3 of duelist

[dire umbra]

you reposition before you FA recall to get more damage out of rank 3 hopefully and set up your barrage

[haughty dust]

I can disarm an assassin then kick their own knife at them

[dire umbra]

and you can still recall all if you kick it around

[dire umbra]

that's very funny

wight want to patch that eventually if it proves to be a problem unfortunately, but for now it's very funny

[haughty dust]

If it's a problem

5 talent levels, 2 blademaster die and an attack from an enemy with an aux weapon and a failed Agi save later and you MAY suddenly have a really good weapon

[dire umbra]

oh wait yeah it needs to be an aux huh ?

then I don't see how it could be a problem yeah

[haughty dust]

If the stars align you deserve it

And the assassin can just pick the knife back up

It does mean however my next playtest shouldn't have Hatchets

[nimble mantle]

oh would this count as the pc/npc throw the knife?

[haughty dust]

You would be throwing the knife

Once per mission while resting, you can call in a supply drop, unearth a hidden stash or open a jampacked supply compartment in your mech.

[dire umbra]

no 1/round on Machine Bond ?

[haughty dust]

nope

[dire umbra]

crazy

[haughty dust]

Like

Condition clear is kinda rare and usually limited

It always has some form of cost, be it action economy or limited

[dire umbra]

oh yeah I get that
Just means if things line up you can do some crazy shit

which is good

[haughty dust]

Yeah

[dire umbra]

this is a 3rd rank support talent

[normal dirge]

i mean how action efficient do you really get with condition clear

[dire umbra]

it should get that

[haughty dust]

Black thumb with free actions

[normal dirge]

first one that comes to mind is Orator 2 but like

also black thumb

those are other talents

that i assume would one day be changed

[haughty dust]

yee

[normal dirge]

in the mechs themselves the closest you're getting is a quick action stabilise with RSU

or similar

[haughty dust]

Lancaster

[normal dirge]

that's a valk thing the condition clear

[dire umbra]

Kutuzov -> GM stabilize, mech snack

[haughty dust]

Nope

[normal dirge]

or do you not mean latch drone passive

[haughty dust]

Acesco stabiliser, Lancaster core, Lobster drone

[normal dirge]

ohhhh the core

i forget aceso exists

[dire umbra]

and license

[haughty dust]

Aceso is kinda cracked NGL

[dire umbra]

goated system
Shit's great

[normal dirge]

also yeah restock is like fine

its a quick + a quick

and lim 2

lancaster core is the strongest one but its a core power

aceso too is limited and only clears 2 specific ones

plus it's OS already so it wont stack

[haughty dust]

Like I read it at some point when making an emperor and went "wait what the fuck this system is real good"

Rank 3 overhaul + rank 2 changes

Rank 2 requires you to be hidden but now is on hit rather than on save and hit

[dire umbra]

oof rank 3's a rough read

I think I get the idea but it doesn't read well

also it doesn't allow hiding with sufficient hard cover but sure it's the most niche

cool idea though, this isn't against it

[haughty dust]

I unfortunately don't know how to word it better 🙃

If anyone thinks they can achieve the same thing with smoother words be my guest

I just had a horrendous idea

Probably not doing this, but it's an idea

Rank 3:
"You immune to the search action"

[dire umbra]

Nah

It's not even that good

[haughty dust]

Hide is really powerful

The amount of times I've just had a hidden NPC capture objectives and there was nothing the PCs could have done about it

But if you have counterplay for hidden it's fine

By removing search, suddenly theres no options for the chaff to deal with you but the specialists who can get by it don't care

So it shifts the dynamic in an unhealthy manner

[dire umbra]

At that point I'd rather see "can't be revealed except by search" then

[dire umbra]

So the criteria are :

• must be the next thing you do (standard move or movement action)
• after Ambush
  In which case you can hide as a free action + no hostile actions after if you meet one of the following after the move:
• In an area of soft cover
• out of LoS
• Invisible

Did I get everything ? And is everything correct ?

[haughty dust]

Yeah

Which when spelled out is in fact a flowchart

When in my head, it's quite straightforward

[dire umbra]

was just to make sure I had everything right before I start trying to come up with an alternate wording

[haughty dust]

During your next action or standard movement after triggering Ambush, when you move: into an area outside of any enemies’ line of sight, into an area obscured by sufficient cover, or while invisible you may immediately hide as a free action.

Realised "No hostile actions" is unnecessary as that would just popp hidden anyway

V0.6.0 :P

Damn, I guess I have a Bi-Weekly release schedule or smthn

This is the same changelog every time btw

I'm basically running Bi-Weekly games at this point - Talent rework playtest I think 5

Date and time: Sat is busy so only Sunday here :P <t:1774206000:F>. Session should be 3-5 hours with time for feedback after
What's going on: I'm Al, you might know me. I want to run the third playtest for my reworked talents and see how they function and if there's any glaring issues
Player count: 0/4. First comes first served any excess will go onto a waitlist, react to this message if interested. If you've already played playtests feel free to let others take the slots but like... I'm not your mum
Build restrictions: LL6, First party content only. Have 6 talent points in reworked talents, other first party talents are allowed but I will run their interactions with reworked talents as RAI not RAW. Make a build treated as if you were playing in a campaign and it's expected to play as if in a campaign as well. Content I am NOT allowing is the mimic gun and Pankrati.
House rules: will be using Kai's NPC rebakes, Maria's alternate structure and stress table and captain Morgans. We will also be playtesting some prototype pattern group NPCs and Sitreps.
Play limitations: Core power will be a roll of among the players, highest gets core. Efficient players are then given core (3 efficient and 1 not will not guarantee they get core). All overcharge will start at 1d6
LCP: The LCP is within the Google drive of the #1433168090371461241 and is very early access. Be weary with it breaking and please call out if it breaks your COMP/CON beforehand. If I update content please also be careful as I'm new to this and there's potential I mess with breaking content such as IDs

[dire umbra]

You didn't mention adding the split GM in this

[haughty dust]

oops

[dire umbra]

Also, what hostile non-save non-attack do you have in mind for tactitian ?

I like the concept but I'm not too sure what would apply

[haughty dust]

Lock on, scan, hunter lock, mark for decimation

[dire umbra]

Oooh mark's a good one yeah

Kinda sad you can't grenade (aside from flash charges), but hey.

[haughty dust]

It could probs be like... IDK a save effect

¯_(ツ)_/¯

RN I just broadened it's horizons

[dire umbra]

Yea

[visual rivet]

oh shit disengage talent

[dire umbra]

Also with techno 3 now giving immunity to cascade, would you consider giving rank 2 the cascade check reroll effect ?

Rank 3 doesn't really need it now so

(especially with the system check on top, that can also be rerolled)

[blissful orchid]

hunter lock and mark for decimation is just like "omae wa mo shindeiru"

[haughty dust]

Depends how many NHPs you want to shove into your cockpit

[visual rivet]

Hmm... Tactician 3 HG Decimation 3...

[haughty dust]

Actually, I might test running different times...

I don't need to play in the evenings.

React the following if you're interested and available following times. First to 4 will be what I run

<t:1774101600:F> - 👽
<t:1774188000:F> -
<t:1774206000:F> - 🐌

Assuming 4 people are available

[visual rivet]

-# As much as I'd like to respond with 👽 both of my afternoons are taken by lancer already

[haughty dust]

Valid

[normal dirge]

i think i'll sit this week out to not burn myself out too much

[haughty dust]

Valid

Yeah that's healthy. Id love to play more playtests than I do but I don't wanna burn myself out from my own playtests and the campaign I'm playing

[visual rivet]

If there are more than 4 people who do show up I'll be happy to free the spot since I've been on the last two already

[normal dirge]

I've recently come to the realisation that I am flying dangerously close to the Burnout sun so I think I need to chill a bit with these playtests personally

[haughty dust]

Yep

I was very close but cooled off enough that I got a bunch of motivation back after V0.5

[haughty dust]

I mean you played in two consecutive

[normal dirge]

verily!

it has also kind of sort of killed my voice so yeah

[nimble mantle]

do you just choose 1 of the 3 listed date to run the playtest or would you run all 3?

[haughty dust]

Id choose 1

[haughty dust]

I had a dream last night about alternate talents

It's calling me back

I specifically had a dream last night for a heavy gunner variant which allowed you to place your heavy weapons on the floor as an emplacement and they could be used by your allies

[haughty dust]

Realised a bug I had was not related to my LCP and was actually related to lacner foundry

So I'm glad one of my bugs wasn't actually a me problem... However sorry Erenziel

[haughty dust]

As a quick action you may perform a Hastened Disengage. This counts as a Special disengage that does not trigger Fighting Retreat but does trigger Weave. When Weave is triggered the movement may be performed at any point during the Hastened Disengage or at any point during the next action you take.

V0.7.0 NOT MUCH CHANGED BUT ALAS

KER BLAM

This is the same changelog every time btw

I'M BACK BABBYYYYYYY - Al's talent rework playtest 6

Date and time: Vote when available! Most availibility will become the date!
What's going on: I'm Al, you might know me. I want to run the third playtest for my reworked talents and see how they function and if there's any glaring issues
Player count: 0/4. First comes first served any excess will go onto a waitlist, react to the message below if interested. EXPECTATIONS FROM PLAYERS: Familiarity with the Lancer RPG system and a base fundamental understanding of mech buildcraft and how the games mechanics works, and a knowledge of knowing what is up to date in the talent rework. Please don't act surprised when you notice a change from the newest LCP day of the playtest because you have an outdated lcp :P
Build restrictions: LL6, First party content only. Have 6 talent points in reworked talents, other first party talents are allowed but I will run their interactions with reworked talents as RAI not RAW. Make a build treated as if you were playing in a campaign and it's expected to play as if in a campaign as well. Content I am NOT allowing is the mimic gun and Pankrati.
House rules: will be using Kai's NPC rebakes, Maria's alternate structure and stress table and captain Morgans. We will also be playtesting some prototype pattern group NPCs and Sitreps.
Play limitations: Core power will be a roll of among the players, highest gets core. Efficient players are then given core (3 efficient and 1 not will not guarantee they get core). All overcharge will start at 1d6
LCP: The LCP is within the Google drive of the #1433168090371461241 and is very early access. Be weary with it breaking and please call out if it breaks your COMP/CON beforehand. If I update content please also be careful as I'm new to this and there's potential I mess with breaking content such as IDs

Available times: React if available for the current times (It's made quite hard because I'm busy ALL of next weekend!)
<t:1775390400:F> - 🐌
<t:1775476800:F> -
<t:1775563200:F> -
<t:1775649600:F> - ✨
<t:1775736000:F> -
<t:1775757600:F> - 🪱

(This is how I figured out my week is quite busy in the evenings apparently

Alas, I can always re-arrange it to an evening next week if needed. I assume I won't get a playtest in this week being this cheeky

[dire umbra]

If I must, I could do Sunday too. But like, that'd be a second game in a very short amount of time. So I don't know if I'd get enough sleep.

Maybe other times will free up for me later in the week too, but I'm only reacting to stuff I can guarantee

huh. Re-reading GS-24BG and realised IKWMH works on the second aux attack from skirmish/barrage, but doesn't on rank 2.

[haughty dust]

Noted

I think that would be nice to patch next patch but I'd probs keep it out if it meant having convoluted wording

[haughty dust]

It's pushing it. I'm mostly throwing these into the wind and seeing if any stick. Honestly I'm expecting none will but I hope they do

[visual rivet]

Am I banned from the premises yet

[haughty dust]

Lolno

[visual rivet]

worm time

[spiral ore]

i hab school

good luck sire

i wish I could join

[patent oxide]

Haven't seen this before, curious

[twilit plover]

Hi ! Sorry for the ping but I would like to know if there will be a game tonight and which have you selected for the playtest ?

Since I got no confirmation of yours I was a bit worried.

[haughty dust]

Oh, sorry I didn't notify you. Yes there is a game tonight and 4 players have been selected from the first 4 that have signed up. Sorry I didn't say anything

[twilit plover]

No problem ! Have fun !

[haughty dust]

In the future would you like to be pinged and have a door open for you for a future playtest?

[twilit plover]

Thank you but no, I have already a lot of games in my schedule, that evening was just a fortunate moment when I had availability.

I'm still lurking tho.

[haughty dust]

Ah fair enough

[twilit plover]

I hope of a parallel universe where Lancer 3rd party content playtester was an actual job lol

[haughty dust]

Pros: I'd be employed
Cons: burnout

[twilit plover]

...fair enough

[haughty dust]

😭

[twilit plover]

That remembers me that time i try running one shots per day on #lancer-game-recruiting during a week of two.
Worst mistake of my life

[haughty dust]

Sometimes even one playtest every other week is too much for me

[delicate rose]

taking a look at it, very cool, many goated descisions

although im curious, can you do anything useful with open source rank 1 at ll0?

im curious what kind of setups it wants

[haughty dust]

So, to be honest. It doesn't need to. When making so many talents it does allow me to make some which are much more niche than others especially when variants exist. I think open source has a high skill ceiling and that is somewhat by design, I can see it being worthless without investment and I don't see that as a bad thing as many other choices also exist. This is also somewhat how I think about Technophile system admin level 2 and level 3

[delicate rose]

That’s understandable

[delicate rose]

What ll were yall testing at?

[haughty dust]

LL6

Lower licence playtests would be nice but I kinda want to get as much data as possible. higher LL feels harder to emulate casual play so 6 feels like a good balance

[delicate rose]

Yeah

Any really cool builds/new interactions you’ve seen so far?

[haughty dust]

Decent amount...

Can't remember off the top of my head

There definitely is

My brain however is empty rn

[haughty dust]

Narrative talent powers:

If you as a game master or player in Lancer think there is a level of disconnect between talents and the narrative capabilities of a pilot, then these rules are for you. These rules are meant to be agnostic to whichever narrative rules are being used for the players, tying their build of what their mech can do to grant new abilities that the pilot may perform outside of their mech in narrative play. These tools however do not work outside of the box, acting as a toolbox that is customisable by the GM to implement depending on the power level they wish to have for their players.

When a character reaches LL1, they may select one of their talents to become their signature talent. Once a signature talent has been selected they gain a new narrative power representative of the talent, however when they progress further and level up they cannot remove levels from their signature talent. This indicates their expertise in the field, and it is not something the pilot may simply unlearn. By default, when a pilot reaches LL4, LL8 and LL12 they gain access to an additional signature talent. If the GM wishes for a stronger or weaker narrative focus the number of signature talents can be changed, for example it can be equal to the pilot's grit, for every talent or only ever have one signature talent.

[haughty dust]

If I didn't have places to be I would be slamming out more of these

Much easier to balance narrative play than combat 😆

basically just ungamify each talent and make it work in narrative play

[haughty dust]

Combined arms:
2 uses, after you make a skill check using a ranged or melee weapon you may describe yourself immediately making a follow up skill check with the other weapon type. You cannot suffer consequences from the follow up and it has reduced effect.
Engineer:
If you desperately need a machine repaired, you can fix it and get it working in just enough time, you may take minor harm to automatically succeed a check relating to repairing something mechanical. But once its purpose has been fulfilled describe how it breaks beyond conventional repair.

Exemplar:
1 use, when you attack someone you may declare them into a duel to the death that may only end when one of you is locked incapacitated. Whilst in a duel neither character may harm anyone apart from the other.

Infiltrator:
1 use, if you make a skill check to hide or conceal yourself successfully, you may remove yourself from the scene. At any point during the same scene you may describe yourself emerging from the shadows bringing you back into the scene at any point you could have feasibly snuck to. Otherwise you reappear at the start of the next scene after describing how you got away.

Juggernaut:
When you make a skill check that involves running into something with all your weight behind it, describe how you do so and gain either +1 accuracy or increased effect.

Leader:
You may use your leadership die out of combat on skill checks, describe how you give an order to an ally before they make a skill check to grant them +1 accuracy on the check or increased effect.

Nuclear Cavalier:
When piloting a vehicle or machine with a nuclear reactor, you may push it to its limits when you make a skill check while piloting it. If you do so you get a critical success without rolling, however the vehicle immediately suffers grievous harm to its own reactor.

Via the power of nuclear reactor, you may take stress out of combat as well as during combat!

[delicate rose]

i see that ace 2 is changed, are there any talents that provide more mobility that didnt before?

[haughty dust]

I've generally reduced movement overall. Ace and hunter: pounce are the only ones that really have movement amongst CRB talents

Actually, juggernaut and vanguard allow upgraded boosts but that's it

[dire umbra]

CRB Ace 2 worst talent rank in the game btw (steals the spotlight from Ace 1)

[haughty dust]

I love getting post feedback songs and praises from a talent rank I didn't touch

[main cliff]

Big fan of narrative powers attached to talents, actually superb idea. I would suggest that there is an argument to be made against using lingo from Bonds on account of the rest of the game not actually providing anything to work with there ("consequences", "grevious harm", etc).

Could look at taking an approach similar to Pigsriot's BM pilot gear which opts for either Difficulty/Accuracy, +/-'s and/or tangible narrative effects such as:

• "...allows you see through walls to a limited extent. It only works at a short range (the next room over, for example)."
• "Given enough time this tool could cut through the armored bulkhead of a frigate."
• "1/mission, When you declare that you’re using the Europa HER09 for a combat-oriented skill check, you can choose to damage the weapon to automatically pass."
• "1/scene, You may grant an ally +1 Accuracy to a combat-oriented skill check, as long as you’re at long range with a clear line of sight of the engagement."

Love your work ❤️

[haughty dust]

It's a lot of words but I did actually account for this, I haven't posted it because I didn't want to spam too many paragraphs but I included a glossary for some of these terms

As previously mentioned, these rules are a toolbox that requires some tinkering with before use, they are by design meant to slot in with other narrative rules such as bonds from the karrakin trade baronies or the default pilot health rules. Because of this, the rules will use a collection of broadly defined keywords which allow you in the game to fill in the blanks, these shouldn’t be rigid and just because the GM says a keyword means one thing doesn’t mean it needs to mean the same thing even during the same session or scene.

Here's some examples

Narrative talent keyword glossary:

Uses: Some narrative powers have limited uses, depending on the scale and pace of the campaign it is up to the GM to establish what consists of one use. By default all uses replenish after a full repair, however it is encouraged to specify a rigid definition of what a use is depending on the scale, pacing and power level of the pilots, other examples may be per rest, session, job or mission.

Harm: Due to the violent nature of conflict, people will take harm, either as a consequence to rolls to pilots or as the outcome of rolls when you try to shoot someone in the head. Different levels of harm may occur. Below are comparisons and examples of what one level of harm may represent. Harm does not also always need to be physical and may represent mental harm or stress. In an unmodified narrative check, if a pilot attacks someone they normally inflict minor harm on a failure, medium harm on a success or major on a critical success. Pilots may suffer different levels of harm from consequences depending on the situation and context.
Minor harm: Small amounts of wound, a grazing shot with small arms fire, most people combatants can shrug this off, may provide superficial damage to vehicles. Roughly 1-2 Pilot HP, 1 Bonds stress, 1 Segment on a clock or 2 + (double current tier) mech damage.
Grievous harm: Will render most Combatants unrecognisable, most smaller vehicles will be torn to shreds, only saved by being truly badass, very strong or simply the protagonist, an equivalent to taking a precise shot from a mech scale weapon or a glancing blow from a small ship scale weapon like a short cycle lance. Roughly enough damage to immediately send a pilot down and out, immediately break using bonds stress, 4 segments or automatically filling a clock or roughly 1 Structure damage.

I also have range, increased/decreased effect but haven't actually described consequences at all

Hopefully that helps with the issue of not providing consequences?

[delicate rose]

is it ok if i post a build here

[haughty dust]

Yes

Encouraged in fact

[delicate rose]

[ LICENSES ]
  HA Saladin 3, HORUS Gorgon 2, HORUS Kobold 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Superior by Design, The Lesson of the Held Image
[ TALENTS ]
  House Guard 3, SB: Precision instrument 3, Leader - ATRW 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:23 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:12 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:8 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Shatterhead Colony Missiles
[ SYSTEMS ]
  NOAH-Class NHP, Flash Anchor, Monitor Module, Forge Clamps, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System, Armament Redundancy```

cookery?

[haughty dust]

Using shatter head w/ precision instrument?

🤔

[delicate rose]

seems great to apply that CC

[delicate rose]

Am I doing something wrong there?

[haughty dust]

No not that I can see

[haughty dust]

I was trying to analyse what the gameplay loop of this build is and I think it's just "do Saladin things and shoot people" lmao

Which I assume due to the fact I've standardised Stormbringer and made it more consistent means it's much easier and more enticing to build around

Most of the weapon talents turn them into controller side grades... Or defender or support...

I think precision instrument is one of the most straight forwards being just "get a condition idiot"

For a relatively cheap cost

[delicate rose]

Yeah

I’m not sure how bad not having hardlight is

[fading flax]

is level 3 meant to explicitly remove the cap of one mark that level 1 sets? rn i think it reads that "marking characters no longer removes existing marks" except you're still only allowed the one mark

[haughty dust]

Marked for decimation at start of your turn*

[haughty dust]

Yes it is

Specific overwrites general

Wait I think I just head an amazing idea on how to phrase skirmisher better...

[haughty dust]

V0.8.0

BABABOOEY

This is the same changelog every time btw

Narrative talents not complete

But iw anna throw out my changes

[dire umbra]

Oh boy I sure do love c !

Also this is wrong with the current wording, if that's the intended effect you may have forgotten some words in there

[haughty dust]

💀

[haughty dust]

Very truncated but that's basically ot

[haughty dust]

This means you can boost then spool your thrusters. In the same turn, I did the maths and realised over 2 turns with some massive setup and choreographing move your speed * 5 over 2 activations. Compared to the regular 4 of move + boost over 2 turns with no investment. The limitations of immobilising yourself, showing off you’re going to move and it being 1/scene makes this feel unwarranted. Also if you move boost plan mega boost during your turn, you kind of deserve to travel the width of the map if that’s the only thing you do this turn.

[haughty dust]

Rerolled damage now only applies if a character is marked at the start of your turn

Wait no you're right...

God this talent is so wordy...

I must have removed something

Eh it's fine...

Ah well

Be reet

I can keep it as written tbh

• Rerolled damage now only applies if a character is marked at the start of your turn
  • I didn’t actually implement this… Oops
  • I realised that this was the intent, yet I didn’t write this… But like if you QA for re-rolled damage this turn… EH that’s not too bad… Oh well I’ll see if it’s a bug or feature that I missed this

[visual rivet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3uHUddPfpY

[zinc portal]

is there a way to get rid of core book talents? they are clogging up my compcon in my playtests lol

[haughty dust]

Not that I'm aware of

You're running playtests? 👀

[zinc portal]

yes my players like this a lot 😃

[haughty dust]

Oh hell yeah!

If they have any thoughts or opinions, or you recnogise any imbalances or purely positive things and thoughts please throw them my way

If possible, the feedback form exists too which can be found in pins! So if you can encourage your players if they have any thoughts they wish to share to either throw them towards you, towards this channel or into that feedback form!

[zinc portal]

I will put all their feedback and mine in the google form after we finish this mission 👍

[haughty dust]

Oh shit, proper campaign mission? 👀

[zinc portal]

oh yeah

they still have access to old talents in case they don't like it but so far everything has been positive

[haughty dust]

Are any players still using the non-reworked talents?

[zinc portal]

no

wait actually I think one is using one of the dlc talents

[haughty dust]

They're not reworked yet

I'm looking forward to seeing the write up!

[zinc portal]

yeah one of them had house guard

and another had demotionist iirc

[visual rivet]

speeking of i'm looking forward to seeing you smashing your keyboard trying to find a way to word house guard 3 that makes it consistent

[haughty dust]

If I keep 3 the same

tbh

[visual rivet]

yeah i imagine it's probably not going to be the same

[haughty dust]

House guard plans
Level 1: Unchanged
Level 2: Gain greater guardian, basically become a terrain piece. You count as hard cover and allies behind you (any distance as long as a cover line goes through you) gain soft cover and PCs can hide behind you.

If you already had Guardian you now block enemy LOS

Level 3: IDK

[main cliff]

SISYPHUS + HG3 my beloved - I look forward to how HG3 changes, love the ideas on HG2 btw ❤️

[haughty dust]

Is that heavy gunner or house guard 😅

[visual rivet]

Are you /HOG or /HEG

[haughty dust]

HoG, HeG

HeG: De
HeG: Su

[visual rivet]

Oh yeah make two House guards with both branches also starting with De and Su for extra confusion

[haughty dust]

House guard: defender
House guard: succ

One of them is all about adjacency and the other is all about being cover

[haughty dust]

Wait what the fuck... I just clocked what you meant by Sisyphus + HG3

What the fuxk

[visual rivet]

clueless

[main cliff]

HeG Desu?

[main cliff]

my favourite defender/controller build frfr 😌🙏

add in Dustgrave Field Analyst for extra spice

[haughty dust]

Oh god...

I'm torn if I'd want to keep those interactions because they're probably not broken and they're funny or if I'd make it more consistent

I've always wanted a talent that plays around the shield talent and I've just realised now that I can do that

Having house guard be about providing guardian and better adjacency feels like a band aid fix for some of the problems defenders have. Removing that would be uncalled for even if it was replaced with something more interesting

[dire umbra]

well make one for that and another for the shield tag yeah

maybe they don't even have to be mutually exclusive exceptionally

[main cliff]

In theory would indeed be a good space to have a split Talent indeed

I'd certainly prefer the synergys with Field Analyst and SISYPHUS stay in some capacity on one of the branches of House Guard, getting offensive reward for defending allies is a great feeling :>

[zinc portal]

I feel like field analyst 2 is kind of useless since it restricts the player a bit too much and the player would want to interfere more but that's just me, my players run pseudo all striker team

[main cliff]

Given how strong FA2 and 3 are, it's restriction is perfect honestly. Strikers aren't meant to be able to use it. Aw an example of a semi striker that could use it, CPR Raleigh with Sysop and some Kidd systems can use it's off turns buffing allies and ticking up FA2.

[haughty dust]

Field analyst 2 is so nice

I think if I touched field analyst I would:

Level 1:
Make it once per round

Remove "you know how much you missed by" replace it with "you know the evasion and edef of everything in the scene"

Level 2:

Make die start at 0 instead of 1, idk about this but the 5->6 on the die always annoyed me

Level 3: unchanged

I think

Fa is very strong

However support talents my beloved

[haughty dust]

Worst case scenario, I think it could have similar treatment to leader where a leader can't benefit from leader. A FA can't benefit from FA

Idk

[haughty dust]

I think I need to see SgS concussive in play more

I've had ideas for if I want to axe it so I wanna hear if anyone else wants to see it in play or is a fan or would prefer it for something else

Orient it to be about the "when you make attacks, do the burst shove people away"

Concussive right now is quite neat but I think there's too many unknowns and new mechanics it's too difficult to figure out if its good or to iron it out

Hrmmm

[dire umbra]

It never like, actively made me want to try it if that helps. Like I don't see it and go "oh yeah I'd want to use that" or "bet that'd combo well with X"

It's probably not actually bad as it is

But I wouldn't mind seeing it go for something more interesting

(provided the something actually is more interesting)

[haughty dust]

That's the problem

If a talent is balanced but BORING

1/round before you make an attack with a cannon you may release a fat one concussive blast. When you do so All characters in burst 2 of you must make an (agi/hull) save or get wacky hijinks put upon them:

Ideas for various levels:

• All characters become impaired and/or slowed
• knockback 2
• turn off their engagement and reactions for the turn
• you get pushed 2 spaces
• gain bonuses against targets in the blast and desperate bonuses to targets outside the blast

[haughty dust]

Level 1:
You may release a big blast before you make an attack. This is a burst 2 area that forces a save. On a fail characters in the area cannot take reactions or cause engagement for the rest of the current turn. (Stunned for the rest of the current turn???)

Level 2:

Characters who fail the save also are pushed 2 tiles directly away from you. Then you are pushed one space in any direction (?)

Level 3:
When you attack a character who made a save, gain +1 accuracy.

When you attack a character who didn't make a save, you give them gout

[main cliff]

Not sure what the above is meant to be but uhh

dw I'm dumb xux

[main cliff]

Stunned might be a touch strong on account of stunned reducing evasion and some other thing I forgot? 🤔 I think no engagement or reaction is fine -u-

[haughty dust]

Stunned turns down evasion, turns off reactions and auto fails hull and agility saves. It also turns off some lingering effects

Stunned is an interesting tool when it expires before your turn

[dire umbra]

Does stunned actually turn off engagement ?

[haughty dust]

Nop

I don't actually remember

[zinc portal]

I looked through github and apparently this will be possible in compcon v3 :)

[haughty dust]

HUH

👀

[main cliff]

Wait that's huge news what

Gonna go check if you can get rid of other core book stuff bc my group made lcps for all our houserules

[zinc portal]

here
https://github.com/massif-press/compcon/issues/2023

https://github.com/massif-press/compcon/issues/2778

[zinc portal]

soon...

[haughty dust]

I'm curious how much effort that is for me or if it's something that can be done on the player end...

[haughty dust]

WIP

Probs change the colours a bit more, make some pop more or less and fuck about with the colours and title

Refine the little talent icons and such

Basically I realised "I want a cover"

"Ok what choices are there"

1. Stock photo
   • Pros: Cheap, costs little time
   • Cons: Not really want I want, hard to find the correct vibe
2. Commissions
   • Pros: Will get what I want, will look beautiful
   • Cons: Costs money for my project that RN costs nothing and will probably force a price tag onto it

Then I realised... There's a secret 3rd option...

I can just do it myself

[main cliff]

Mad respect, it looks great so far ❤️‍🔥

[zinc portal]

with v3 coming soon, will this lcp be updated to v3 as well?

[haughty dust]

I assume so 🥲

I hope that's not too hard

[zinc portal]

by coming soon I mean <t:1776862851:R>

[haughty dust]

I'm gonna be honest I'm just gonna be jump scared by whatever changes I need to do. I have no clue what's happening on the LCP side of V3 of comppcon and I'm prepping for the worst with tears in my

Oh lord

27 minutes

BE REET

[zinc portal]

I think most changes have to do with active mode

so either you will have to add in functionality to all the talents in active mode or literally do next to nothing

oh nvm ur cooked

[haughty dust]

I mean

Current LCPs have "synergy" options which is the little trinkets which apppears next to your hase score and says "BTW you have +1 accuracy to hull checks" of when Duelist appears next to your main weapons

I looked at them and went "damn that's crazy"

"I'm not payed enough for this shit"

So honestly, the LCP will likely not involve super in depth compcon compatiblity outside of simply being able to make a build

[main cliff]

Right there with you on the rebakes - will prolly take a crack at it later today, will post insights if i find anything helpful

[haughty dust]

Rn I'm editing all of it in the online LCP editor

I have VScode with the LCP editor module but apart from that I don't have any great workflows for making LCPs

[main cliff]

tbh vscode and a dream is all I've ever really known, word out is that C/C will have increasingly sophisticated lcp editor stuff so ought to be cool

[haughty dust]

Siiiick

Comp con talents are now in alphabetical order

This is a good thing

Unless you're me where now all my talents that were in a specific order are no longer in said order

Be reet

I'm allergic to change

[haughty dust]

With how this is going on I'm honestly tempted to set it to my discord PfP

[haughty dust]

All talents here are currently early access so don't expect everything to be smooth going or perfectly balanced. They will be changed over time and I will appreciate any or all feedback I can get. If you have any feedback please use the feedback form or feel free to ping me in this channel with a writeup!

Also, if you are interested in playtesting you can check which talents require testing more urgently than the rest here

Moving that to it's own independent message so it doesn't appear as the first thing in the third party forum and now my cover art is there instead

[subtle sapphire]

Absolute gas, hell yeah

[haughty dust]

(You cannot tell that this is inspired by FIST The mandelbrot set art. No sir)

[grim rain]

This goes hard

[hushed fiber]

Your honor... peak

[dire umbra]

The fact you got this done in what, a day ? Makes this all the more impressive

[haughty dust]

MFW Unemployment + Undiagnosed ADHD

[dire umbra]

Dude my ADHD's untreated too and it don't make me good at drawing shit

Take the compliment like you stole it

[craggy steppe]

Question about Vanguard - Spearhead: As written, if an enemy is within my Line of Sight at the start of my turn, I can't use First In. Is that as intended?

[haughty dust]

You can use first in if they're in line of signt

Gain accuracy if they weren't in Line of Sight OR weren't in threat"

[craggy steppe]

I see. It's either/or, not neither.

[haughty dust]

Yes

If it was "not neither" I would use and

And that is way too limiting

Intent is, if you run up to someone this turn then blast them you get bennies

[craggy steppe]

In that case, maybe "outside" instead of "not within" could help keep things clear, by getting rid of the "not X or Y" phrasing

[haughty dust]

Noted

Can you remind me Monday or Tuesday because I can't add that to the bug tracker because I'm currently away from my computer

[blazing swallow]

👆

[haughty dust]

Haven't worked on this for a while because I havent had time

But now I have 2 free weekends back to back

INTEREST FOR PLAYTEST POLL REACT IF AVAILABLE ON THE FOLLOWING DATES
🐌 - Sat 9th
🪱 - Sun 10th

Probably first comes first served if I notice

React with if you want lower priority

[haughty dust]

Funny thing about this is I still haven't written this down

I've been quite preoccupied

[dire umbra]

Nothing too rough I hope ?

[haughty dust]

Combination

Life 😔 and Life 😄

[dire umbra]

Well hey at least there was some good in that

In any case yes me please
I had the misfortune of playing base Lancer in the meantime. I was reminded then, why I do what I do.

[haughty dust]

My condolences

[dire umbra]

I cannot wait for your crimes against Pankrati. I want it to not be The Best Talent so bad.