#Al's Talent rework

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

haughty dust
#

Why disengage if you can just punch someone

normal dirge
#

discombobulate

haughty dust
#

Ignore reactions could easily be a condition

normal dirge
#

it could, and so could blind, but alas

dire umbra
#

Honestly... Kinda cooking ngl

haughty dust
#

I'm not gonna do it

normal dirge
#

the Discombobulated condition which means they cant take reactions

dire umbra
#

Honestly if you go with this I'd love to see Discombobulate be just a little bit better, if only because it's so funny that I want to use it more often than "situational but very strong in those situations"

#

(It's actually fine I just want more discombobulate)

haughty dust
#

Hull save, on a 5 or lower their head explodes

#

My ultra when they get slapped by a goblins improvised attack

normal dirge
#

what does their head exploding do mechanically

haughty dust
#

My Osiris improv attack build where I'm just a goblin for 2 rounds then I reach 3rd gate I just kill someone

#

Sweep the legs feels useless however...

#

If you do an improvised attacks which is a not a ram

obtuse onyx
haughty dust
#

Babe wake up, new brutal 3 just dropped

dire umbra
#

Ooo

#

Sweep the legs make them no longer be an obstruction until eont

#

Still can't end in their space yada yada

haughty dust
#

Don't think I'm sold

#

What if it was just frag sig

#

Gut shot

dire umbra
#

But like, stop being an obstruction in general, even to your buddies

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Oooh I see

dire umbra
#

Makes it mean with the ram follow up

#

Wait wait, what if you made leg sweep into "no reactions + no obstruction", and discombobulate into the "fragsig" slowed + impaired ? (because slowed + the prone from rank 3 ram is diet immob which makes discombobulate unironically very good)

#

That sound fun ?

normal dirge
#

im not Al but that does sound fun

#

it's got like

#

pf2e flurry of maneuvers monk vibes

#

if you've played that

haughty dust
#

It's kinda meant to be monk flurry of blows like

dire umbra
# normal dirge if you've played that

I'm a pf2 fiend
My academic success is currently hanging on the line because I've just been offered a spot in a pf2e campaign and it takes all my willpower to not say yes

normal dirge
#

MY MAN

#

pf2e my beloved

#

but yeah

dire umbra
#

I'm more in my debilitating strike rogue era rn, but ye monk funni

normal dirge
#

i like your idea a lot water

haughty dust
#

I could just add both... Gut shot and sweep the legs

#

My asura brawler where I just 1/scene make someone L + impaired + slowed + discombobulated + prone + move 2 tiles

dire umbra
#

'cause like, I'm honestly more and more convinced the more I think about it. For three options it gives you a bit of everything, and I can see all three being used semi-frequently

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Me in my atlas kicking a Goliath's legs and screaming in pain as my mates run under it

dire umbra
#

picture me Joyous, I got us a worthy discombobulate

haughty dust
#

Wait was your idea on top of discombobulate or it's own option?

#

My thoughts are

  • discombobulate: same
  • spinning kick: same
  • sweep the legs: target doesn't cause engagement and isn't an obstruction until the end of they next turn.
  • gut punch: fragsig
dire umbra
#

My idea was combining sweep the legs and current discombobulate and keeping it named sweep the legs, renaming gut punch into discombobulate, and keeping spinning kick the same

haughty dust
#

Mmm

#

Yeah fuck it

#

If it's overturned it can be nerfed in post

dire umbra
#

Worst case just split 'em again yea

haughty dust
dire umbra
normal dirge
dire umbra
#

Next playtest I'm just gonna bring a quick jabs off-controller Nelson for the true pf2e monk experience

normal dirge
#

fuck yeah

haughty dust
#

Hunter lunge, improv attacks and asura

#

Punches you, punches you, punches you, punches you, punches you, punches you

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

I don't think much can get worse than the 0 eng displacer tail

dire umbra
#

It's just... the perfect lifemechform

#

God it's so fucking good to be back man
I missed this kind of design discussion

river ridge
#

How is Juggernaut 2 intended to work if you have jump-jets? IIRC flying allows you to ignore obstructions along the path. Can you never activate Juggernaut? Does it allow you to fly over things until you choose to stop?

dire umbra
#

You can just... Not fly if you want to collide.

haughty dust
#

Ugh I hate flight rules

normal dirge
#

i think maybe?

#

like im sure you can fly into an object if you want right

haughty dust
#

It says ignore obstructions unless it's impossible to do so like fitting through a gap you can't fit through

#

"ok boss what do you mean by this"

#

Maybe you can idk fly through a guy but not a rock

#

Faq for juggernaut: if I ignore obstructions can I not use juggernaut: "if you ignore obstructions you can choose to not ignore obstructions for the sake of ending the boost and triggering the ram"

dire umbra
#

That's what an faq is for yup

#

Gotta have one

obtuse onyx
#

That’s actually one thing about Jug which confused me- it’s considering characters obstructions, right?

#

Also I will say- maybe the special action stuff isn’t the most concise, but I do think it’s pretty clever when it comes to design space, making combined actions count as both taking place for dupe action restrictions. Opens a lot of fun avenues!

#

(it’s something that only appears in ASURA and imo it should appear more often)

haughty dust
#

It applies to overcharge

#

I can't, move boost, skirmish, OC spearhead charge

#

wait I misinterpreted what you said

#

Yeah it reads as a necessity to me but it's ugly wording

obtuse onyx
#

It’s a fun necessity though

haughty dust
#

I am so curious how LLancer would be if dupe action restriction just DID exist onn free actions full stop

obtuse onyx
#

It’d be super interesting if ignoring dupe action restriction was an exception rather than the norm

#

Off the top of my head, the only stuff that would need that would be Sekhmet and maybe overcharge (if you can barrage into skirmish then why stop people from skirmishing twice? You’re just discouraging doing stuff other than attacking maybe idk)

haughty dust
#

Nah, OC would have nothing

#

Or pull the lancer tactics and make skirmish like how tech actions work

#

Skirmish for as many weapons as you have

#

But can't dupe them this turn

obtuse onyx
#

This is getting slightly off topic, point is I don’t think the dupe action restriction is enforced enough and the tALents enforcing it is fun

haughty dust
#

Unfortunately there's only so much rules changes I can do within scope

#

Axing some Core bonuses will be fun but unfortunateyl I can't be arsed to do a core bonus rework

obtuse onyx
#

Also fair

normal dirge
#

Lancer with no dupe action restriction on free actions but Multiple Attack Penalty from Pathfinder

#

HMG Everests when their fourth skirmish this turn is at a -10

haughty dust
#

Evasion doesn't scale enough like grit does hto

#

So that just means you can easily with enouggh accuracy and grit mag dump a low evasion defender with a HMG

fading flax
#

easy, 2nd-3rd skirmish onwards loses grit benefits while continually stacking pathfinder multiattack penalty

haughty dust
#

Every attack with the same weapon generates heat, andn you roll 1d6 overheat die. If you get a 7+/5+/3+/1+ on the die (scaling with number of attacks with the weapon ) the weapon breaks after the attack

fading flax
#

based

normal dirge
obtuse onyx
#

I like Lancer as a “low numbers” game anyway lol

normal dirge
#

also yeah MAP would definitely be kind of un-lancer with how shockingly rare flat +1s and so are

obtuse onyx
#

Also Aux-weapons users would lose more than they already am

normal dirge
#

yyyep

#

there would have to be some special stuff for aux weapons (Agile trait? Mount based MAP?) but then we're getting almost unnecessarily complex

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Oh I missed that message, yeah they are. So if you run into one it becomes their problem they're an obstruction

#

Unless they're smaller

obtuse onyx
#

I didn’t know that

river ridge
#

They just don't cause engagement if they're smaller

haughty dust
#

Rather than FAQ I think it needs a wording update

#

I added it to my bug tracker, because it's possible for an atlas to be unable to ram a size 1 character because they can run between it's legd

river ridge
#

It's also quite a bit worse on the average character now. It needs you to have at least 6 speed for the knockback to be better and it doesn't give accuracy which is huge

haughty dust
#

It's 1 quick for 2 quick actions

#

That's kinda cracked

river ridge
#

Oh right, totally forgot the action compression

#

Yeah no, it's quite a bit better

obtuse onyx
river ridge
#

Still a lot of action compression. Spending the extra quick action to ram in the core book can also miss and you're out 2 actions instead

haughty dust
#

We've had a dropout for the playtest

Date an time: <t:1769367600:F>. Session should be 3-5 hours with time for feedback after
What's going on: I'm Al, you might know me. I want to run the first playtest for my reworked talents and see how they function and if there's any glaring issues
Player count: 4, (3 slots taken, 1 remaining). First comes first served any excess will go onto a waitlist
Build restrictions: LL6, first party content only. Reworked talents only. Make a build treated as if you were playing in a campaign and it's expected to play as if in a campaign as well.
House rules: will be using Kai's NPC rebakes, Maria's alternate structure and stress table and captain Morgan's
Play limitations: Core power will be a roll of among the players, highest gets core. Efficient players are then given core (3 efficient and 1 not will not guarantee they get core). All overcharge will start at 1d6
LCP: The LCP is within the Google drive of the #1433168090371461241 and is very early access. Be weary with it breaking and please call out if it breaks your COMP/CON beforehand. If I update content please also be careful as I'm new to this and there's potential I mess with breaking content such as IDs

Please reply to this message with a ping if you're interested

normal dirge
#

@grim rain here's the post about it

grim rain
haughty dust
#

Sick

river ridge
#

Woo! Glad you could find a replacement so fast.

haughty dust
#

Had another dropout... We need another crylaughing

normal dirge
#

third time's the charm lets go

grim rain
dire umbra
#

God it sucks how much I want to be there but morally can't afford to because I have classes 5 hours later and need sleep

#

I hate being a reasonable person. This is why the 0 engi displacer swallowtail exists.

haughty dust
#

Your classes are more important

dire umbra
#

Unfortunately

#

Because this is much cooler

dire umbra
haughty dust
fading flax
#

meant to reset to 4 on full repair?

haughty dust
#

Thanks

#

No, if you repair mid mission it gets nerfed

fading flax
haughty dust
#

Discombobulate feels like a lot

fading flax
#

frag sig plus damage

haughty dust
#

But like... It's as good as or worse than fragsg

#

no damage

normal dirge
#

it's fragsig but a little to the left really

fading flax
normal dirge
#

which is fine

#

fragsig is good and cool

haughty dust
#

Spinning kick might be a lot...

#

But see it in play

normal dirge
#

quick action move someone two spaces?

#

eh

#

it's one more than a ram

#

and no prone

fading flax
#

calibannibal time

haughty dust
#

Any direction

normal dirge
#

i guess

#

i think that's a fair compensation for lack of prone though

fading flax
haughty dust
#

Nelson with skirmisher and core just kicking someone 3 times

#

And following them

#

Wait let me read caliban

#

Caliban is explicitely knockback

fading flax
#

:(

#

boooo tomato tomato tomato /j

haughty dust
fading flax
haughty dust
#

It now means you can't spinning kick squads

normal dirge
#

i believe if you want it to be knockback you want it to read "knock the target back"

#

eg. tempest drone

fading flax
normal dirge
fading flax
#

although the idea of a mech swatting a guy away hard that 10 other guys also fly backwards is very funny

haughty dust
#

Spinning Kick: The target is knocked back 2 spaces in any direction.

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

yeah that works too

fading flax
normal dirge
#

watch yo tone mf

haughty dust
#

Wait

#

A mech can knockout blow and stun A WHOLE SQUAD

normal dirge
#

i am surprised squads arent immune to stun

#

it's fiiiiiine

haughty dust
#

It was possible before

#

It does however mean you can discombobulate a whole squad

normal dirge
#

what even are the logistics of stunning an entire squad? fuck if i know

haughty dust
#

Which fragsig can't do

#

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fd4XtHOdTern3RuvsOUhoed6LUvD4-vZWhXpr962z7E/https/media.tenor.com/TyI7ymZPrKUAAAPo/discombobulate-sherlock.mp4

▶ Play video
#

Piss it didn't work

normal dirge
#

the fuck

fading flax
#

i see the vision

normal dirge
#

oh it was 10 discombobulates wasnt it

fading flax
haughty dust
#

Changelog for brawler heavyweight

image.png
dire umbra
# haughty dust

Just a quick q on rank 2 :
If you are in a Nelson and have bonus damage on an improvised attack, would using flurry of blows would also get rid of it on hit ?

#

Currently reads as "yep, no damage is no damage"

haughty dust
#

Yeah that's cringe

normal dirge
#

I'd do "No Base Damage" if thats the case then

haughty dust
#

Yeah that's what I was thinking

normal dirge
#

so it doesnt eat Nelson, MC, Atlas traits for nothing

haughty dust
#

...

#

Do rams get ap and reliable 2 with nuc cav...

#

I think they do

normal dirge
#

they would

#

the same way as core nucav works on them

haughty dust
#

Yeah, lmao

normal dirge
#

like sure whatever, have your 2AP damage rams

#

what I'm not sure about is if you put it with Siege Ram does it also inherit the AP tag

#

I'm inclined to think no

haughty dust
#

Congratulations, now it does 2 damage or reliable 2 damage crylaughing

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

i guess its a thing you can do

haughty dust
#

Siege ram is still good tho

#

More consistent

#

V.0.2.0 I might have given nuc cav overkill too

#

Overkill Ram

normal dirge
#

its thematic at least

#

in a talent about living on the edge and redlining your reactor i'm surprised at how safe you can make it

#

chill at exactly half heatcap and take no more

fading flax
fading flax
normal dirge
#

honestly half of the fault of that is fuel rod gun

#

why is there a clear heat tool in the gain lots of heat and play risky talent

fading flax
#

we have fusion reactors in these things and you're leveraging that to generate excess heat and energizing your munitions and you're telling me that generates no heat in the reactor at all?

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

it is! its just eh to me flavourwise

#

like tokugawa getting all that range extension

haughty dust
#

Level 1: minor reward for DZ
Level 2: major reward for DZ
Level 3: make tool that makes playing into DZ safer

#

Remove meta from the equation and go purely on the flavour text and vibes. Nuclear cavalier is one of my favourite talents

#

It's tainted by how meta and abusable it is but remove that and I can look at my guy with the same glorious eyes that saw it for the first time when I was simply flipping through the CRB for the first time

fading flax
#

my point about how nothing in the talent generates more heat still stands on flavour

normal dirge
#

that was me with the tokugawa when i read it

#

what great flavour and vibes

#

then i saw how the average tokugawa player runs it and gave up

haughty dust
#

Look I've seen two Tokugawas, one was brutal but ultimately fine but this is in a valk rework world

#

And the other... crylaughing

fading flax
haughty dust
#

Artillery gaming

#

Crack shot gaming

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

My first experience with a Tokugawa: ruthless, slain everyone in combat 1 of Dustgrave without being touched...

Second experience with Tokugawa in second fight of Dustgrave:

Expose self -> annihilate grunt

L + berserker charge + chain axe + crit + shred + structure + exbatts popped + 6 exbatts damage + doubles to 12 + structure

Ally comes in to save:

L + aggression + targets Tokugawa + hits + structure + snake eyes

normal dirge
#

I've always been a high risk high reward player

haughty dust
#

2nd round of combat 2 crylaughing

normal dirge
#

every experience except one I''ve had with tokugawa was negligible risk enormous reward which makes me dislike it

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Infiltrator invis Tokugawa that hides them consumes 50 billion infection markers

normal dirge
#

the one time i've seen tokugawa run melee staying exposed i actually like the gameplay of it, and felt like i was doing a lot in my saladin to keep him alive

haughty dust
#

Spending 80% of my actions to keep him alive because if he dies the party DPS drops to 1d3 per round

normal dirge
#

support tokugawa

haughty dust
#

Turn them to burn

normal dirge
#

the ultra with 100 infection marks asking the players to put him out of his misery (he's charged staked so he cant do jack)

haughty dust
#

He can't do WHAT 😳

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

if the players have applied that many marks without learning that they deserve to have their damage eaten

haughty dust
#

Pankrati ideas:

Level 1: as a protocol you may select a character in LOS to be your quarry, this lasts until either die or you select a new character (maybe even until death)

If your quarry is slowed or immob you gain +ACC against them.

If you swap your quarry you're deemed a coward and your previous quarrys damage becomes irriducable Vs you

Level 2: 1/scene QA pankrati charge. Straight line double boost, no interruptions. Any forced movement breaks it, must end adjacent to your quarry. On success, skirmish them and slow them

Level 3: idk but probs not Base level 3

normal dirge
#

wait can pank charge be interrupted raw

fading flax
normal dirge
#

oh for fucks sake

fading flax
#

it's miserable

haughty dust
#

Every movement can RAW

fading flax
#

you can interrupt it with more movement

#

you can shuffle off to the side to pankrati around buildings

haughty dust
#

Can thank valk for the idea for level 2. Honestly him saying that's what he'd do to pankrati charge has shaped up a lot of how my actions compression ideas work

normal dirge
#

close enough welcome back Sudden Charge pf2e

fading flax
#

honestly my main gripe with base pank2 is that it's free

haughty dust
#

It's better than some core powers, let alone efficient ones

normal dirge
#

(sudden charge is 2 strides and a strike in pf2e for two actions, for those unaware)

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

2/3rds of a turn

normal dirge
#

yeah, this here is 1/scene though so i think it being less expensive is okay

#

also keep the "can't initiate adjacent to an enemy" imo

haughty dust
#

Oh is that a thing

normal dirge
#

i dont want this to be used as an escape tool personally

haughty dust
#

Eh this change is still months off

normal dirge
#

true

haughty dust
#

I just have ideas for them and wanna write them down

#

Then I can revisit later

#

Level 2 house guard my thoughts are to axe the soft cover bubble and make it so that the character is basically just a block of terrain, so if a cover line goes through them it's soft cover and characters can hide behind them. They don't block LOS but I also had thoughts of them having a reaction which is if a character targets another character behind the HoG player and the HoG player would block LOS they would gain a reaction that is infinite uses per round which allows them force the hostile actions to target themself or originate from themself

obtuse onyx
#

That’s actually why Improvised attacks feel so bad in CRB- not being weapons = few talent synergies

haughty dust
#

Nuc cav just says ranged or melee, not explicitely weapon

obtuse onyx
#

Oh really?

#

Okay my mistake

#

That’s a plus imo

haughty dust
#

Bonus damage can apply to ANY physical attack

#

hrmmm...

dense turret
#

hello its me writing in 2 months late to talk about skirmisher because i dont understand the point made here and i think the rework has missed a part of what made skirmisher work

haughty dust
#

Pros of shortened names for LCP talents:

  • Has less wrapping and looks less jank as talent names aren't as long
    Cons of shortened names for LCP talents:
  • Can't search for the talent name, must use their new name
dense turret
#

in that at its core its a hit and run talent that youve taken the run part out of

haughty dust
#

Lmao, the 2 month reply

dense turret
#

id just like to understand the reason behind the replacement of skirmisher 2 because im confused by it

torpid fern
#

The run has been turned into the big defenses against overwatch so you can get away

#

/reactions in general

dense turret
#

i understand that but the talent itself was already so anti-overwatch (skirm3 being a straight auto-miss) that the replacement of it with another anti overwatch feels like a wasted opportunity to double down on the hit and run playstyle it looked to be made for (granted if not used for)

torpid fern
#

I mean in terms of what it was made to be for. It had 2 talents devoted to avoiding attacks and 1 that gave you a flat movement regardless of your mechs actual speed. 2 feels more like the outlier here

normal dirge
#

and Skirmisher 1 has direct antisynergy with skirmisher 2

#

which i dont htink should exist in any talent

dense turret
#

id argue the opposite actually

#

the synergy is in that hit and run in that it makes it a lot safer to run up to your target, with skirmisher 2 giving you the disengage after you make your attack

obtuse onyx
#

Ehhhh? In theory I can see that being the design intent, in practice it just. Doesn’t. Al changing the soft cover to only be active while moving was definitely a good call imo

#

I’d need to check the tALent rank 2 to remind myself what it does tho, but I don’t think it discourages a hit n’ run playstyle

normal dirge
#

yeah idk personally,

obtuse onyx
#

Yeah so Skirm 2 is basically “brace but without the drawbacks and it only triggers on reactions,” and I don’t really see how that doesn’t encourage a Hit n’ Run playstyle

normal dirge
#

i have never once seen that talent used in that way in almost two years of playing and gming this game

#

every time it's just free movement

#

i've seen skirmisher 1 to good effect but never with skirmisher 2

obtuse onyx
#

I will say however- changing Skirm 2 to be from any reaction damage rather than just attacks that hit could be good, because one of the big reaction attack culprits (archers) deal reliable damage

haughty dust
#

Skirmisher:

  • I don't disagree with the framing that skirmisher is a "hit and run" talent, I agree that's what it's meant to be in concept when in truth it has two separate outcomes: level 1 and 3 help with "and run" whereas level 2 is instead "hit and reposition"
  • I believe there's already enough tools in the game that assist with the hit part that working on the "and run" part assists with build synergy and means that other avenues are allowed. Hit and run, support and run, etc.
  • unfortunately, I admit CRB skirmisher 2 is fun. Unfortunately I don't see it as healthy which is why it's gone.
  • this is the V0.1.0 pass, not everything is gonna be perfect. I'm tentatively watching skirmisher to see how it fares. It might be very weak at the moment but I want to see if it is good or if it's just arse, which it might just be. It can be changed. Id rather not bring lockbreaker back but I have thoughts on how I'd change it if it's the only way to make the talent live
dense turret
#

my point isnt that skirm 2 is flawless but the rework turns it into something that is completely defensive (and not very useful imo)

obtuse onyx
dense turret
#

id rather put more limits on the move 2 to encourage a more hit and run playstyle instead of as a utility

obtuse onyx
#

Plus, Nelson still exists

#

Nelson essentially having the same effect but as a frame trait and slightly more/less restricted kinda throws a wrench into arguments encouraging keeping Skirm 2 around

dense turret
#

the 2 movement is really interesting and its a shame to see it go

obtuse onyx
#

If you changed Skirm 2 to be like “you must start and/or end this movement engaged” then all it does is change the range band it operates at- it’s still probably equally as problematic

#

I’m getting a bit off topic into my own musings that’s not important rn

haughty dust
obtuse onyx
#

I will say, tbh, that all 3 ranks of Al Skirmisher do feel like “the same thing but done differently” and it doesn’t exactly feel like it’s building on its mechanics but rather just giving you more and more ways to “blunt the effect of triggering a reaction”, which I can see being redundant once you get far enough in

haughty dust
#

Like I said it could be arse

#

I'm very willing to take it round back and send it to the glue factory then come back with something else

dense turret
obtuse onyx
#

How come Skirm rank 3 got the glue factory btw? It seemed rather good to me

obtuse onyx
obtuse onyx
fading flax
#

I don't think base skirm 3 has room to coexist with some of the other stuff that exists in Alents, e.g. Fast Shot

haughty dust
#

If changing level 3 rather than axing it I could probs make the dodge die work on any attack rather than only reactions. Or make it only reset if it forces a miss

obtuse onyx
dense turret
haughty dust
obtuse onyx
fading flax
#

free upticks on high noon die on turn

#

reworked skirm uses the reaction, so you don't get to fast shot (unless you're a gorgon crylaughing)

haughty dust
#

Unfortunately quick hand may be just better for skirmishing than skirmisher crylaughing

dense turret
fading flax
#

oh you can use some gross order of operations, i guess it ticks off of hit not attack, mb

#

i still think that it being a guranteed miss on crb skirm3 is too much combined with standoff compared to a die system for reworked

dense turret
#

I think its such a niche to put a full talent into

#

If i were to suggest a tweak id make it so the score is equal to or higher than the skirmisher die so that a 6 always scores

#

if youve managed to take 5 hostile reactions for some ungodly reason without rolling any luck you deserve a guaranteed at that point

#

@haughty dust im mr ideas guy but if you wanted to keep the dice which is fun and the move two you could have the move two be on triggering a hostile reaction

#

it would be a lot more niche than normal skirmisher 2 and be more fun than a flat damage resist

haughty dust
#

Yeah move 2 on the dodge is a nice idea

dense turret
#

happy with it tho

haughty dust
#

I think I will

#

Skirmisher:
Rank 1 - same
Rank 2 - trigger on attack not hit, gain resistance and move 2
Rank 3 - make dodge happen if value is equal to or higher not just higher and only reset on forced miss

dense turret
#

i think it would be a really fun perk because the die encourages you to keep risking mad dashes

#

you might not even need the resist on 2

#

triggering on attack is the key though that sounds fun

obtuse onyx
haughty dust
dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Unfortunately ace would be really good for skirmisher

#

But unfortunately ace 1 is cool

#

And if I remove ace 1 I think Water dragon will behead me

dire umbra
#

I'd also highly encourage you to have skirm rank 3 to say "you also force the attack to miss" instead of the miss being a replacement to avoid reliable shenanigans making it technically possible for the miss to be worse than a hit with resistance

#

For a rank 3 as situational as this, I don't think that's too powerful an effect

obtuse onyx
#

I personally feel they can coexist

dire umbra
#

Skirm 2 is only on hit actually but yeah

dire umbra
dense turret
#

skirm 2 should be hit or miss

#

the overlap feels insignificant to me

obtuse onyx
obtuse onyx
obtuse onyx
dire umbra
#

It doesn't, yeah
It only kinda does because if you're doing your job right no-one's gonna get an overwatch off on you 5-10 spaces up in the air

haughty dust
#

Skirmisher is probably gonna end up with so much synergy with standoff

obtuse onyx
#

Is that bad?

haughty dust
#

Nope

#

It's only a problem if they're a must have pair like black thumb and techno

haughty dust
fading flax
#

height 50 piledriving specter

haughty dust
#

Perfectly timing their fall so they're falling airborne with threat

dire umbra
#

I mean... Ultra hover propulsion Cataphract

#

Also an ace heavyweight would be so funny. Just don't fall prone, idiot

dire umbra
fading flax
#

standoff wants you to be attacked a lot to keep getting return fire/fast shot off, so the main pain point is needing to get shot more

#

what better way to get shot than to provoke many overwatches

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Spelling it out, heavyweight is deffo overturned rn

normal dirge
#

that may be an issue with the heavyweight stuff having self prone as a downside

haughty dust
#

I need to see it in play to know how I can nerf it

fading flax
dire umbra
fading flax
#

at 5+ high noon die you can fast shot for as many aux weapons as you have

haughty dust
#

That's not the intent

fading flax
#

that's how it reads, no?

dire umbra
normal dirge
#

it refunds your reaction so you can fast shot another turn no?

#

and also lets you say overwatch thar same turn

haughty dust
#

Yes

#

If a breacher multi attacks you, you may shoot them twice, once for each attack. If someone rams and skirmishes you can attack them twice, once for each attacm. If someone attacks you with a single attack, you cant react to that attack with as many weapons as you have available and can only react once

#

That's the intent

normal dirge
#

right yeah thats how i interpeted it i just was confused now

haughty dust
#

Unless you're Gorgon... In which case... Fml

fading flax
#

what i was saying was get overwatched by many things

haughty dust
#

Ok cool yeah

obtuse onyx
haughty dust
#

That was my intent I misread

fading flax
normal dirge
haughty dust
normal dirge
haughty dust
#

It's not a cost, I just think it's fucking hilarious

#

Heavyweight is ridiculously overtuned rn

#

But that's better than being unusably bad

fading flax
normal dirge
obtuse onyx
# normal dirge elaborate on this i havent read act 2

There was (sincerely hope it’s a was) a Vet trait that allowed a new NPC (the Ruiner) knock itself prone in order to auto hit rams. It could also get a sorta spaceborn 2 effect where it can get up from prone w/ only one space of movement.

I felt dirty using it. My players felt it was unfair being hit by it. I forgot the trait also gave rams bonus damage. ‘Twas not very fun.

And unless Al is reworking Spaceborn 2, it’s going to probably be consistently feels-bad with the PCs

fading flax
normal dirge
normal dirge
#

idk about the spaceborne 2 rework since its non core so if it ever comes it will be a while away

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Even then I think it's overtuned

dire umbra
#

Maybe yeah, that's just one idea to start the process

haughty dust
#

Right now you're using a full action to perform a grapple and follow up with an improv attack. The improv attack has had its damage increased to be above that if a heavy weapon but not as extreme as a superheavy. So you're basically merging a grapple with a skirmish in one that anyone can do regardless of weapon mounts

fading flax
dire umbra
#

You're assuming you'd need to grapple someone twice/ram someone twice. You're also assuming you'd bother taking a nothing CB when the whole point of your talent is to do that already

haughty dust
#

Also now you have 2 accuracy because they're grappled and prone

dire umbra
#

Yeah. And you can already do that now then

haughty dust
#

Tru

#

Like...

fading flax
#

but the point being made is that restricting heavyweight to just one of the two options doesn't really matter

haughty dust
#

I want to see how it is CURRENTLY in play. It's overpowered I know but I want to see how bad

normal dirge
#

on that topic...

#

what would be the talents you're most "concerned" about Al

#

be it in strength or otherwise

#

okay other than ace 3 i knoiw that one

dire umbra
#

I might be getting tilted at this actually which is a good sign for me to stop arguing about it.
So, sorry if any part of that sounded rude

haughty dust
# normal dirge what would be the talents you're most "concerned" about Al

Ace 3
Hacker backdoor
Siege specialist concussive: looks like a ball ache
Both drone commanders
Brutal: might always be shit but I think it can always just be fun
Infiltrator: it might just be underpowered and I'm coping
Skirmisher
Both brawlers
Juggernaut 2
Gunslinger: 24BG - level 2 and 3 with missile racks
Hacker diverse portfolio 3
Heavy gunner suppression with Sheavies
Heavy gunner decimation
Vanguard spearhead

normal dirge
#

okay im not sure how many i can cover in one playtest but i'll see

fading flax
#

backdoor was something I was looking at being a lot of things per action

haughty dust
#

And maybe both duelists but they're kinda on the tier of I want to see them played as much as everything else tbh

fading flax
#

a trojan is an invade, pseudo-lockon, and impair

normal dirge
#

oh siege specialist concussive 3, that thing

haughty dust
#

I am so ready to take backdoor around the back and send it to the glue factory

#

I want it to work because quick hack queues from cyberpunk are my inspiration but I can see so many problems stemming from it id rather just kill it than fix jt

dire umbra
#

The trojan concept is really good though, it's a good angle to try and make the talent from

haughty dust
#

Like

#

I think

#

Wait lemme read it again

normal dirge
#

oh, i'm just seeing something

#

Overloaded:

#

it's not a free action or anythign to overload the shot

#

i can overload a heavy gunner shot?

haughty dust
#

Yeah

#

Lmao

#

That's not a bug

normal dirge
#

this is kind of funky i want to see if it is at all useful

haughty dust
#

I think I can axe the lock on effect from backdoor

dire umbra
#

I think making it so you can only ever apply one trojan at a time could also be a good qol idea

#

Less stuff to track (especially if you bring a Chomo with this)

#

Also, a quick thing about rank name overlap : skirm 1 and ace 2 have almost the same name, and decimation 3 could stand to be the full "Until death do us part" because Exemplar 3 is already "To the death"

fading flax
#

i skirmish, proccing skirmisher2 and my skirmisher trait on my skirmisher-type frame

dire umbra
#

Yeah that

normal dirge
#

fwiw i agree i just think it's funny

dire umbra
#

I mean. It's already named Until Death so like, that's implied

haughty dust
haughty dust
dire umbra
haughty dust
#

" A character may only have one trojan at a time."

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Oh I see

#

It's 1/round

dire umbra
#

Not sure about it, but could reduce overhead (especially once at rank 3)

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Ye

dire umbra
#

Yeah it's probably fine then

haughty dust
fading flax
#

Annihilation feels a little off brand with the other names being about hating the guy, but I like it getting more verbose to more accurately convey how much you fucking hate that cataphract who's trying to walk towards you

dire umbra
#

That's the idea

#

And yeah annihilate is the weakest one of the bunch

fading flax
#

Abhorrence?

normal dirge
#

Rancor, Loathing, Contempt, Abhorrence, Enmity

#

all synonyms potentially

dire umbra
#

You could do a funny and make it execrate

#

To me it's between Loathing and Abhorance and Execrate

#

While on the topic of names, the second brawler split's name feels really weak (my one and only source being that I cannot for the life of me remember it, so grain of salt and all that) so would you consider making "flurry of blows" the name of the talent itself, instead of the second rank, and having rank 2 be like. "Martial Arts" or something martial arts related

#

Dexterous Attacks. There, pulled a random ability name from 5e monk since that's what we were already doing for that rank. I'd say it fits pretty well

haughty dust
#

Decimation is about killing peeps very hard, obliteration is also about killing them hard... Distaste is the only one that isn't

fading flax
# haughty dust I mean

was talking about water's suggestion with annihilation feeling slightly out of place there

haughty dust
#

I see

dire umbra
#

A stance that I agree with btw, and we came up with some better ones as you can see up there

haughty dust
#
  1. Discombobulate
  2. Obliteration
  3. Annihilation
fading flax
dire umbra
#

You're making me regret not having nitro to Joyous the hell outta you

haughty dust
#

Real

#

It's fine, reCaste can do it for you

#

I'm gonna change up all the talent ranks so everything's called discombobulate

fading flax
#

where's cat, I know she has like 10 different joyous emotes ready at any given time

normal dirge
#

i gotchu

dire umbra
#

More seriously though Decimate -> Obliterate -> Anihilate does work but I still think Distaste -> Hatred -> Loathing or Distaste -> Loathing -> Abhoreance is better, especially since it's extrapolating on a rank you named because this is your tAlent and I also think the idea of theming it around hating that one guy super hard is really fun

normal dirge
#

fuck that one guy in particular - the talent

haughty dust
#

Distaste -> Loathing - > fuck that guy

dire umbra
#

Hold up ! Their writing kinda fire !?

haughty dust
#

Me calling an ability "fuck you" and then someone comes out the Woodworks and goes "yeah well that's already an ability name"

dire umbra
#

(It's me I have it on a charcter of mine)

#

Still can't believe it made it into the release version

#

At least I think it did

haughty dust
#

Fuck that guy is fun and is a plan that can work but I think it has more dissonance than the current name tbh

normal dirge
#

what is this about

#

also are we allowed to swear in talent names

dire umbra
normal dirge
#

you know how some peopel get about swearing

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

oh lmao

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

i spose

#

yeah i guess those two answer my question

fading flax
#

errrm, mx GM, there can't be a talent called Scroingus. Well you see, one unnamed NPC in a draft of an unreleased content pack has it noted that that's their mech's name. So you'd be doubling up on naming which could cause massive confusion

haughty dust
#

As long as the swearing doesn't rival vivziepop it's fine

#

I've been trying to keep it out of the doc, outside of brutal because it deserves it

normal dirge
#

lancer if it was by vivienne madrano or however you spell it

haughty dust
dire umbra
haughty dust
dire umbra
#

It'd work if all the ranks followed the "swear at your oponent" theme

#

So rank 3 dropping an f-bomb feels like a proper punchline

haughty dust
#
  1. Bastard
  2. Fuck you
  3. ********
fading flax
dire umbra
#

But I still think increasingly verbose ways to hate someone is it's own kind of funny (and also better for these)

haughty dust
#

I'm gonna get cancelled

normal dirge
#

i like the idea of naming one of the ranks just asterisks

subtle sapphire
#

[REDACTED]

normal dirge
#

your compcon censored it because it was THAT vulgar

haughty dust
#

It's a funny bit, I'd love to do it. I don't think it fits

dire umbra
#

Not for this one no

#

Hang on

#

I got it

normal dirge
#

oh i agree yeah but you know i do things for the funny

dire umbra
normal dirge
#

orator but you just cyberbully them

fading flax
# subtle sapphire [REDACTED]

Union policy states that the following transcript cannot be reproduced without proper redaction; failure to comply risks a collapse of the Utopian Pillars and carries a charge of Treason against most major governments

haughty dust
#

Orator 1 where you just read propaganda in a monotone voice

Then Orator where you just yell FUCKING IDIOT, DIE BASTARD STUPID MOTHER FUCKING *******

fading flax
#

swear word so bad it destroys governments 😭

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Yeah probably

#

Like I admit some of the names aren't good. Just because I couldn't let flavour bog me down when making it

#

Talking about names and flavour...

#

Gungljnger 24BG

#

How are the talent ranks for that

#

I kill with my heart is gone which makes me sad. But I loved the concept of them being like you're having a chat or a debate too much

fading flax
#

Convincing Argument is maybe a little similar to Orator's Convincing Rhetoric?

#

that's like my only note

haughty dust
#

Future me problem

fading flax
#

real af

haughty dust
#

Level 3 + "Doesnn't stack with invisible"

#

Me with my Standoff Skirmisher Raleigh walking about like I own the place. Never taking overwatch because if the GM decides to I can turn around lock them in the eyes and tell them to shit themself as a reaction

fading flax
#

pov: enemy deciding to overwatch

haughty dust
#

Keeping an eye on Pandemic 3. It was originally designed where infection markers MUST be consumed when damage is applied. But now it's infection markers MAY be consumed when an attack or save happens... So keeping infection markers for free burn or easy shred might be too good. But alas I'd like to observe it in play because it could just be fine™

#

But an idea I have is "mark a character as a protocol with infection markers you provided, they become "Festering" when a festering character would remove their infection markers. Instead half them and remove festering"

fading flax
#

centimane: pandemic gaming

haughty dust
#

Changelog:

V0.2.0

Centimane Pandemic:

  • Renamed flavour of the talent to instead be all about THE LINE MUST GO UP
fading flax
obtuse onyx
#

I do wanna ask Al- how come you’re keeping the OG talents in the name rather than putting them in the description? For the LCP at least.

haughty dust
#

So it's clear they're exclusive

#

But like that was mostly about myself

haughty dust
#

I want to see this absolutely annihilate someone using 1 stress for all rules

#

"Oh hey, Ultra pyro... You gonna vent heat next turn?"

#

2 4 i r r i d u c a b l e d a m a g e

subtle sapphire
#

L + Ratio Ultima Regum

normal dirge
#

ohhhh thats where Heat Hap was

haughty dust
#

Yeah, if you missed you took heat equal to half your heat hap

#

Decimation, Obliteration, Annnihilation

#

Distaste, Loathing, Abhorrance

dire umbra
#

Both are really good

haughty dust
#

I think "...ion" makes the first group work quite well too

dire umbra
#

The first also kinda sounds like... You know a mantra or something

haughty dust
#

I think Loathing isn't making it for me

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

The words for "Destroy you" theme I think are cooler, but the theme of "I hate you" goes hard

normal dirge
#

unfamiliar with the word in french though

dire umbra
#

Yea yea I was checking myself

haughty dust
#

I think Loathing to me is holding me back from the "I hate you" theme

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Heavy Gunner: Yuck factor

#

I thought Mantra was just a bring me the Horizon song Clueless

normal dirge
#

Heavy Gunner: The Ick

dire umbra
#

Heavy Gunner : ew.

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Fair

#

I just personally don't find it rolling off the tongue as much

dire umbra
#

That's fair

#

In the end you give the name, so you're the one who needs to like it

haughty dust
#

guih fuck, if saying "I hate you I hate you I hate you I hate you I hate you I hate you" didn''t ggo hard I could have easily made a decision 😩

dire umbra
#

Yeah exactly

#

At least you have a fallback with the second option if we don't find anything new

haughty dust
#

Distaste/Hatred/Abhorrance

dire umbra
#

Was my original suggestion, so sure I don't mind

haughty dust
#

Yeah I just read it again lmao

haughty dust
#

"What Acronym should I give Heavy gunner?"
"HG of course"
"What acronym should I give Hacker and hunter"
"Huh... Probably HA and HU"
"What acronym should I give Siege specialist?"
"... I don't wanna call it that"

#

"SiSp"?

#

no...

#

SgS?

#

😩

subtle sapphire
normal dirge
haughty dust
#

LL6, what is the maximum amount of X die you can have 🤔

dire umbra
#

9 total talent ranks right ? So 3.

#

Oh wait, do you count dice that aren't just counters for this ? Because then it's a different story

#

Like, are we talking brawler/stormbringer/High Noon only or also leader, duelist, optimization etc. ?

haughty dust
#

As many numbers as possible

dire umbra
#

Hmm
I just realized I have more thoughts, but for now I'll just say that maybe reckless charge should be renamed, since we have reckless attacks already (and those deserve the reckless qualifier a lot more)

haughty dust
#

I'm gonna

#

Reckless explode

#

Unless there's glaring issues I'm probs not gonna touch the doc or the LCP until after the playtest

dire umbra
#

Oh of course

#

Just you know, writing all this down so I don't forget

#

Other thought, considerably more important this time, you need to define how adding reliable to stuff that already has it works for NewCav, because that's not codified anywhere actually

dire umbra
#

Oh I like the new skirmisher a lot actually

#

Don't know if it's any good, but it at least sounds really cool now (and is very digestible now, it's great)

#

Oh stormtrooper 1 only says " the first time you attack a flanked character", so it's actually a single-use disposable talent rank

#

Incredibly funny until fixed

haughty dust
#

Rip

#

"in a round"

#

Fixed

haughty dust
dire umbra
#

Eh

#

We'll have to see but I think then it might only be strong situationally

#

Which isn't the worst even if it's true, I'd just maybe like it doing a bit more on average

#

That overkill should already help a bit in that regard though

haughty dust
#

Intent:

  • boosts DPS on hit. But only if the foe is armoured because AP which limits how much DPS it's capable of
  • boost DPS with average damage with overkill
  • boost DPS on miss with reliable

If the attack is reliable, congrats it's ap now. If the attack is AP, congrats it's reliable now. This means it doesn't gain as much benefit as a regular weapon with neither however

#

But that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make by having methods of boosting DPS without boosting direct damage

#

Also your ram can be reliable 2 ap now

obtuse onyx
haughty dust
#

Yeah

dire umbra
#

Yeah sure. Just worried it could end up underwhelming for a rank 2 with a condition attached I guess.

haughty dust
#

Me: "Hey you just finished a playtest for ur stuff... You should probs take a small break then get back to doing some patches then ask around for a playtest group again"

Also me: "TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE! ARRANGE A PLAYTEST GROUP NOW!"

subtle sapphire
#

Mood

obtuse onyx
#

I wish I wasn't in college so I could run pickup games every week v_v

blazing swallow
haughty dust
#

My talent rework is just trying to say Pump Agi 50 billion times

haughty dust
#

Hacker: Open source

-# Hacker backdoor replacement, brainstormed ideas

  • level 1: When you invade an ally, you may forgo the effects of the invade to install an executable into their mech until the end of their next turn. A character may only be under the effects of one executable at a time. As a protocol or a free action at the end of a character with an executables turn they may remove the executable to take the effects of the Invade

  • level 2: your executables now expire at the end of the scene. Additionally when a character activates an executable they may gain immunity to one of the following parts of the invade:

  • an applied condition

  • an applied status

  • all heat

  • all damage

  • level 3: When you invade a character under the effects of a hostile tech action and an executable, you may forgo the invade to immediately activate the executable. If you do so the targeted character may remove the effects of one hostile tech action

#

A bit messy but I reCaste planted a seed to convert backdoor into a support talent and I remembered allied invades is a whole thing that could do with support

#

Backdoor is cool, but as mentioned during the playtest all it does is makes the already best invade option better (HOR_OS 1)

#

I could honestly axe the part about executables and just grant new other bonuses

fading flax
#

so at tier 1 it's implied that you can pre-invade allies before a scene

#

because of the clause of the start of tier 2

#

otherwise I quite enjoy this

#

t3 is possibly quite strong (see: mini PEBCAC with no risk)

#

immunity to heat from an invade i don't think does anything if installing the exe still classes as a willing invade

obtuse onyx
#

Lancer outright does not have “prep time” as a thing within its core rules- if you wanna do anything related to combat, either use a reserve or be in combag

fading flax
#

so why state it in t2 at all

#

my point is that it's either redundant text or implies that exe's carry between scenes before that tier

wispy sigil
#

The clause on the second rank is there because at the first rank the executable only lasts for one turn

#

it's like Bolster and Sysop, Bolster by default lasts until the end of the beneficiary's next turn, Sysop 1 makes it last longer

#

And like Bolster, there's no way to "preload" it onto someone out of combat because there's no "turn" in combat to track

obtuse onyx
#

It's like the effects of Sysop 1

fading flax
#

👍

#

In my defence it was 3am and I had arisen in a haze; didn’t see the line in t1 about it lasting 1 turn

dire umbra
#

Level 3 needs some work, and I'd have some things to clarify with 2, but this is already so, so far ahead of backdoor

#

Hmm. Alt idea for a rank 3 : when someone with an .exe is targeted by a hostile TA, they can choose to eat the .exe to delay the effect of the tech action to apply at the end of their next turn instead

#

rank 2 with terrify to not impair your Sekhmet friend that got too closethinkaboutit

#

My questions for rank 2 are for the immunity to heat/damage clauses : do they only apply to initial effects or also to like, duration stuff ? Mainly eject slag.

#

Also, maybe add a clause for how to sort out durations, also for eject slag.

#

But yeah most invades that deal heat/damage as part of their effect don't come with an upside for allies even if those were to be negated

#

So rank 2 doesn't really give you much more than a duration upgrade.

main cliff
dire umbra
#

Eh

#

Not that big of a fan personally. Loses the support archetype flavor in exchange for just more invading ennemies

#

But yeah allowing allies with an .exe to use the invade option in it themselves (instead of only as the target) is an interesting idea to explore. I'd like to explore other ideas first though.

haughty dust
#

Heat and damage could be compiled under 1 bullet points then... That'd be better

dire umbra
#

Yeah, especially given how few options exists that both deal any of them and that you'd still want to give to an ally

#

(I mean, I've seen a friendly sear in my time, but then the point is to take the heat so negating it isn't that useful)

haughty dust
dire umbra
#

Not interested in my delay idea ?

haughty dust
#

Oh I was just responding to another message

dire umbra
#

I mean fair just wondering

haughty dust
#

Let me read it

#

I think the issue I have right now with this talent

#

Is it's quite similar to sysop

#

My opinion on Sysop for the sake of the talent rework:

  • it's cool, probs not being changed much
dire umbra
#

Maybe that talent rank, but the rank 1/2 effects are very different to all of sysop

haughty dust
#

Yeah

dire umbra
#

Like, you've found the good idea now, just need to refine it a bit more

#

I just really don't know what to do about rank 2 not giving that much (due to limited first-party options), and rank 3 in general needing some fleshing out

haughty dust
#

Rank 2 allows:

  • eject slag not effecting the target
  • balance control lockout not inflicting prone
  • terrify not impairing (only useful really in sekhmet example
  • eject power cores for AOE damage
  • eject slag immunity

Hmmm, it ain't much but it grants some versitality...

#

But I don't think it's enough to justify a talent rank

dire umbra
#

Even with the indefinite duration, which is more broadly applicable.

#

(also, you put eject slag twice)

haughty dust
#

Yeah because it's the best combo

dire umbra
#

The only reason I don't care that much about epc is that if I ever run this, it'll be with Valk's stuff, and the burst damage is removed in there.

#

But in a context where epc is still a thing, it's not bad either; pretty equivalent to WoK's burst damage thing

haughty dust
#

EPC is not worth it for a burst of 2 damage

#

I just put it there because you can do that

#

You cal also give them dominions breadth

dire umbra
#

I mean, a burst of damage at the end of your turn so you can position yourself in the middle of everyone during it isn't nothing.

#

It's not much, but situationally it could be pretty nice

haughty dust
#

Fair

#

Not as good as... Jamming someone

dire umbra
#

What if you've already jammed all the interesting targets once ?

#

(but yeah tru)

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

o7 Law's of motion

#

Law didnt deserve to have their of motion taken away

haughty dust
#

Please drop it

normal dirge
#

sorry :(

haughty dust
#

NGL, I was getting quite annoyed when people were taking the piss out of me missing a grammatical mistake in one of the many talents

normal dirge
#

my bad chief, won't happen again

haughty dust
#

TY

#

Such talented individuals - Talent rework playtest 2

Date an time: <t:1770577200:F>. Session should be 3-5 hours with time for feedback after
What's going on: I'm Al, you might know me. I want to run the first playtest for my reworked talents and see how they function and if there's any glaring issues
Player count: 4/4. First comes first served any excess will go onto a waitlist, please react to this message if you are interested
Build restrictions: LL6, first party content only. Reworked talents only. Make a build treated as if you were playing in a campaign and it's expected to play as if in a campaign as well.
House rules: will be using Kai's NPC rebakes, Maria's alternate structure and stress table and captain Morgan's
Play limitations: Core power will be a roll of among the players, highest gets core. Efficient players are then given core (3 efficient and 1 not will not guarantee they get core). All overcharge will start at 1d6
LCP: The LCP is within the Google drive of the #1433168090371461241 and is very early access. Be weary with it breaking and please call out if it breaks your COMP/CON beforehand. If I update content please also be careful as I'm new to this and there's potential I mess with breaking content such as IDs

#

Anyway now I need to run off to the shops and grab food before I am playing Lancer in an Hour 💀

fading flax
#

I assume the date is meant for next sunday

normal dirge
#

uhhh is the date wrong on this? i assume next sunday right

haughty dust
#

You would be right

torpid fern
#

damn recaste got there first with the snail react, im loosing my touch

normal dirge
#

take me to snurch

fading flax
#

losing your time as well

#

perhaps you might be out of your head when the snail's not around

haughty dust
#

Cool, got the players needed for the playtest. LMK If you also wannna go on the waitlist

spiral ore
#

oh wait

haughty dust
#

Anyone who wants in on a waitlist I guess I can give first dibs to the next pplaytest :P

spiral ore
#

I yearn

#

I yearn for the heavy melee

#

I yearn for good talents for hacking

#

Executioner seems really fun for a pseudo-taunt mecahnci

#

Via headtaker

haughty dust
#

Yee

dire umbra
#

Once again, I can't reasonably do Sundays so this is out for me. Just manifesting my interest so you know it's because I can't and not because I don't want to.

haughty dust
dire umbra
#

It's fine, dw
With any luck, I'll be battlegrouping it up over on 7th fleet anyways

blazing swallow
#

if a gorgon uses laws of motion 3 and gets a nat 1 or 2 on itself does it stun

haughty dust
#

Yes crylaughing It shouldn't roll, it auto hits

blazing swallow
#

oh it does?

#

I don't think that's currently on the LCP, is it part of an existing rule that you can autohit yourself?

image.png
haughty dust
#

I'm stupid

#

It's as intended

blazing swallow
#

cool 👍

#

one more question - you can only target self with LoM3 boosting, but do blasts still effect those nearby

haughty dust
#

It can only target yourself

#

Blast does nothing

blazing swallow
#

noted

fading flax
#

to clarify, an attack with blast loses it's blast when targeting yourself with LoM3?

haughty dust
#

Essentially yeah

#

Intent is yes, wording might say otherwise but I don't see any edge cases I can't just say "that doesn't work"

blazing swallow
#

“Cannot effect any other character”?

haughty dust
#

Only target yourself implies that

blazing swallow
#

true, but sometimes "target" is used to refer specifically to the centre of an AoE whilst still letting the rest of the AoE occur

#

.
unrelated: Does Laws of Motion 3's wording:
"Lastly you may choose to target yourself with your own Launchers, to do so you always count as a hostile character to yourself for the sake of the attack"

allow for you to proc 24 Bullet Greeting 3's:
"Each time you hit a hostile character with an Auxiliary ranged weapon, reduce the value of the gunslinger die by 1"

You do have to take self damage to gain charge, but I can appreciate it's still a strong interaction in that case

haughty dust
#

Lmao

haughty dust
#

That's not how I interpret it

haughty dust
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

blazing swallow
#

so it's legal milord?

haughty dust
#

Yeah, I changed it to hostile characters then said you're a hostile character crylaughing

#

But it only targets yourself which... Doesn't sound great

blazing swallow
#

dr gun's magic spell of shoot myself in the face is back online bay-bee

haughty dust
blazing swallow
#

ok so

#

you know how you're a hostile character for the purposes of LoM 3

haughty dust
#

Yes

blazing swallow
#

and you know how scylla lets you attack a hostile character

#

(for half damage)

haughty dust
#

Yes

#

LoM3 must trigger thunderous blasts which is 1/round

blazing swallow
#

ahh

#

meh still kinda works for charging gunslinger

haughty dust
#

Also you're a hostile character to yourself for targeting yourself the attack, not for Scylla

blazing swallow
#

scylla procs on hostile character targeting you with an attack?

haughty dust
#

Yes, you're targeting yourself and treating yourself for the attack roll as hostile. But you're still not hostile

#

Blame marathon arc bow

dire umbra
#

I see what they mean actually, I see the line of reasoning where that doesn't work

blazing swallow
#

my thought was activate scylla -> skirm (aux/aux) -> scylla (aux) -> scylla (aux) -> integrated (aux) with vijayas lets you hit yourself 5 times with an aux and fill gunslinger

#

all on self

dire umbra
#

You're hostile for targeting specifically but still not hostile to yourself

haughty dust
#

Yes

blazing swallow
#

ahh

haughty dust
#

Gracefully worded

blazing swallow
#

sadge but fair

haughty dust
#

Not sadge

dire umbra
#

balanced, instead

haughty dust
#

Blame emperor

dire umbra
#

also that

blazing swallow
#

balanced, definitely, but it's sad that for balance reasons you cannot shoot yourself in the face 5 times and then missile launcher (because it would be funny)

haughty dust
#

The hostile character clause and no aoe clause is only there so you can't shoot yourself and 2 other people with a marathon arc bow AND overshield yourself from it

#

Because the arc bow is a launcher

blazing swallow
#

fair enough

#

barrage (mrack/mrack, mrack/mrack) + free mrack from 24BG (all on self) still works though I guess

#

not sure why you would target self instead of enemy

haughty dust
haughty dust
blazing swallow
#

for RAI or RAW?

haughty dust
#

24BG is only hostile characters

#

So LoM3 ticks it up because sure IG

#

But any further don't

haughty dust
#

"Each time you hit a hostile character with an Auxiliary ranged weapon"

blazing swallow
#

I dont think LCP has any hostile only req. on it

haughty dust
#

It should

#

Screenshot

blazing swallow
haughty dust
#

I'm not at my pc

#

Wait that's level 2 not gunslinger die

haughty dust
blazing swallow
#

sorry - to clarify, my thought was that you could make all the attacks using GS2 on self using LoM3 to proc GS3

haughty dust
blazing swallow
#

yeah im stupid

haughty dust
# 
-- IPS-N Caliban @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Nelson 3, IPS-N Caliban 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Reinforced Frame, Sloped Plating
[ TALENTS ]
  Juggernaut - ATRW 3, Nuclear Cavelier - ATRW 3, Skirmisher 2, VG: Spearhead 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:18 ARMOR:3
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:12 EDEF:8 SENSE:3 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: HHS-075 “Flayer” Shotgun
  Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
  HEAVY MOUNT: HHS-155 CANNIBAL
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Ramjet, Rapid Maneuver Jets, Armament Redundancy
#

Step 1, find a target
Step 2 juggernaut ramjet boost through however many walls it takes to ram them into oblivion
Step 3 follow
Step 4 they're prone and vanguard so now you have a flat roll on the cannibal, you also took 5 heat so blast them with both barrels at nuc cav
Step 5 you're slowed. Whilst slowed reload your weapon and clear your heat
Step 6 repeat

#

Flayer and FRG as backup

# 
-- IPS-N Raleigh @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Raleigh 2, IPS-N Caliban 3, IPS-N Nelson 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Integrated Weapon, Reinforced Frame
[ TALENTS ]
  Skirmisher - ATRW 3, GS: Standoff 3, Exemplar - ATRW 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:24 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:7 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: M35 Mjolnir
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Hand Cannon
  AUX/AUX MOUNT: Hand Cannon / Hand Cannon
  FLEX MOUNT: Hand Cannon / Hand Cannon
  HEAVY MOUNT: Bolt Thrower
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Hardpoint Reinforcement, Rapid Maneuver Jets, Personalizations, Manipulators

Guide: be a little shit, Draw as much overwatch as possible and retaliate with quick draw. Then give people exemplars mark just so you can punish them for attacking anyone

# 
-- IPS-N Blackbeard @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Blackbeard 3, IPS-N Zheng 2, IPS-N Nelson 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Titanomachy Mesh, Reinforced Frame
[ TALENTS ]
  BL: Heavyweight 3, Exemplar - ATRW 3, HU: Pounce 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:0 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:20 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:7 EVA:12 EDEF:6 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Tactical Knife / Tactical Knife
  MAIN MOUNT: Tactical Knife
  HEAVY MOUNT: Tactical Knife
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Total Strength Suite II, Synthetic Muscle Netting, Reinforced Cabling, Bulwark Mods, Total Strength Suite I

This build exists because if it works it proves heavyweight brawler is overpowered

#

See: the weapon mounts

spiral ore
dire umbra
#

Anyways yeah if the next playtest after that is within 2 weeks, put me in (the waitlist), coach !

dire umbra
#

I will also make a case for a Tier 1 playtest at some point, LL3 or 4

haughty dust
#

Yeah, LL0 is also on the list

#

Unfortunately there's just a shit ton of data to go through LL6 is a good way of going through said data

dire umbra
#

Yeah, taking a bunch of stuff at once at first

#

Can always refine the smaller things later

blazing swallow
#

whilst this is a stupid idea, is it technically possible to deploy jericho cover "adjacent" directly in front and diagonally up to form a height 2 size 1 tower for ATRW-Tactician?

#

see; my beautiful drawing

image.png
obtuse onyx
haughty dust
#

#rules-questions crylaughing

dire umbra
#

If you want something that's actually made for this check out the FORGE subs' tower thingy

normal dirge
#

or two Kobold Blocks on top of each other

blazing swallow
#

my first thought was actually kobold fortnite tower for tactician (whilst invis), but the despicable action econ makes it only really viable with the core power which isn't consistent. I'm aware that lack of cover and terrain is the last thing to worry about with al's maps but some form of consistent set-up would be nice now you can't just hover over your enemies to display superiority

haughty dust
# blazing swallow see; my beautiful drawing

Ok so both the terrain pieces need to be placed at the same time and adjacent to eachother. The Jericho can't be placed on a deployable that doesn't exist yet so they need to be placed on valid floor

#

However I think it's very funny and I'd allow stacking them

haughty dust
#

Thinking about Siege specialist Concussive

#

Delayed blast is a cool concept but when waiting 20 minutes for returns that can just fall flat it sounds anti-climactic

#

In a similar manner how Pinakas can be from the one mission and feedback I've seen of that when one of my players was slingingg them around

#

It's a lot of words, might not bee too good and might be quite feelsbad

#

What if instead it was "You may overload your shot, this gives your weapon reverse Ordnance

#

Once the action resolving this weapon finishes, you end your turn immediately

#

But it gains bennies

#

The biggest issues I can see with this are the Howitzer, Hurricane cluster projector, siege cannon and Tachyon lance which are the 4 Ordnance cannons

#

The 3 super heavies should be "fine", it means that firing that gun is the ONLY thing you can do that turn

haughty dust
#

Lost my train of thought mid way through typing that... It's quite different however for a howitzer

normal dirge
#

Ordnance and reverse-ordnance stack right? meaning you can only fire the weapon and that's it?

#

since it's both the first and last thing you need to do in the turn

haughty dust
#

Yes

haughty dust
obtuse onyx
#

Wait did the Chud Template actually get published?

haughty dust
#

My Chud Barricade

normal dirge
#

that i hate

haughty dust
fading flax
haughty dust
obtuse onyx
haughty dust
#

Yes

#

Nothing ever happens

fading flax
obtuse onyx
#

Did the Chud template actually get an LCP?

haughty dust
#

No

#

I just made it in foundry

obtuse onyx
#

Huh

spiral ore
spiral ore
haughty dust
#

GFF4?

visual rivet
#

Games For Freaks 4

haughty dust
#

Receive enlightenment from Tom Lancer

#

Congrats GFF4 finally has lancer content: the chud template

haughty dust
#

What if you, wanted to work on Al's Talent rework

#

But God said:

"LIBERATE CYBERSTAN"

haughty dust
haughty dust
#

Try not to kill the PCs (challenge level impossible) - Talent rework playtest 3

Date an time: I'm sorry but my Saturdays are just always busy... <t:1771786800:F>. Session should be 3-5 hours with time for feedback after
What's going on: I'm Al, you might know me. I want to run the third playtest for my reworked talents and see how they function and if there's any glaring issues
Player count: 0/4. First comes first served any excess will go onto a waitlist, Prioritising those who haven't yet been in a playtest yet if that's fine with you lot :>. React to this if you're interested
Build restrictions: LL6, first party content only. Reworked talents only. Make a build treated as if you were playing in a campaign and it's expected to play as if in a campaign as well.
House rules: will be using Kai's NPC rebakes, Maria's alternate structure and stress table and captain Morgan's
Play limitations: Core power will be a roll of among the players, highest gets core. Efficient players are then given core (3 efficient and 1 not will not guarantee they get core). All overcharge will start at 1d6
LCP: The LCP is within the Google drive of the #1433168090371461241 and is very early access. Be weary with it breaking and please call out if it breaks your COMP/CON beforehand. If I update content please also be careful as I'm new to this and there's potential I mess with breaking content such as IDs

normal dirge
#

but give my seat up if others that havent played yet want in

#

ah wait youve alreadu included that

haughty dust
#

Edited the message

#

React to it if interested

#

Tries typing stuff in game chat, realises I'm trying in discord :joyous:

dire umbra
#

I am going to scream. It is inevitable.

haughty dust
#

Sorry 😭

#

I am busy every saturday I'd want to run a game

dire umbra
#

It is in fact, already happening.

dire umbra
# haughty dust Sorry 😭

Don't worry it's fine. Even if I could play I'd have already been kidnapped by one of the three battlegroup games I'm owed that I just racked up.

#

But still.
RAHHHHHHHHH

fading flax
#

inb4 it's the same group again 😭

haughty dust
#

@spiral ore and @visual rivet Also expressed interest last time

spiral ore
visual rivet
#

Should be able to make it work yeah

visual rivet
#

What talents do you most want tested right now?

blazing swallow
haughty dust
#

Hey Oki and Leo, I said if you want to sign up and can react to it please react to the message. It'll make my job easier

visual rivet
#

oh sorry

#

done

fading flax
#

For overloaded attacks from sgs: concussive, when does the drop prone take effect? Before or after the attack resolves (e.g. does the enemy dropping prone then give the attack accuracy?). I'd imagine after the hit resolves but better to check

haughty dust
#

Before, so yes they'd get accuracy

fading flax
#

neato

torpid fern
#

on bunker buster, does shrapnel count as your 1/round jackhammer or is that in addition ?

#

im assuming yes but i'd just like to clarify

haughty dust
#

yes

haughty dust
#

Ok how the fuck does this grammar work?

visual rivet
#

Works for me but me not knowing grammar isn't out of the question

wispy sigil
haughty dust
#

The commas just look wrong

dire umbra
#

They don't look so to me

haughty dust
#

Fair enough...

dire umbra
#

I do tend to do overly long sentences though, so I might be biased

wispy sigil
#

Additionally, 1/scene you can do X

haughty dust
#

Yeah I think that looks tidier

#

Thanks

wispy sigil
#

Think of it like "Additionally, on Monday you can do X"

dire umbra
#

Or "Additionally, you may 1/scene do X"

haughty dust
visual rivet
#

Time to move all session to monday for no particular reason

dire umbra
#

Just edit the internal clock of your GM's computer to always be Mondays thinkaboutit

haughty dust
#

I have places to be so I'm just gonna throw out the changes I have rn so peeps can have a gander because I'm not finishing my V0.5.0 changes soon

#

Massive attack overhauled, and levels 1 and 2 have been swapped

dire umbra
#

Hmmm. Why's Massive attack and Focus servos agi saves ?
Especially since making one of those a hull save would cover all the HASE stats and lancer likes doing that

haughty dust
#

because massive attack is AGI in the CRB

#

Also hull saves are the most common in the talent rework

#

Hull: 7
Agility: 4
Systems: 3
Engineering: 3

dire umbra
#

Oh huh

#

Sure then, that's a good enough reason

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

I wanted to make PI not use hull lmao

#

Because I was near the end of the rework and I was like "Why the fuck have I used so many Hull saves"

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Duelist: Spearwall

  • All levels have been changed. Talent no longer worries about being adjacent to your allies and now worries about attacking enemies who are engaged with an enemy or within their threat. This concept has been declared as an enemy being “under crossed blades”
    • Working with adjacency had weird issues as adjacency is hard. Even if this isn’t a specific target required and can be any ally on the front line. I believe ally adjacency is easier in frontline than backline due to holding and taking objectives. However it gives a weird profile having a pet goblin on a size 3 character just having increased threat
      Working on allies threat also doesn’t punish your allies for not wanting to be adjacent with larger threat melee weapons
  • Level 1 is now 1/round and not on the first attack of the round
  • Level 2 requires the target to be under crossed blades to gain the increase to threat and knockback instead of being adjacent to the ally
  • Level 3 no longer deals half damage and requires the target to be under crossed blades
dire umbra
#

Level two is kinda clunky I think, but otherwise very good, yes yes

#

Also this

image.png
haughty dust
#

*looks at stormtrooper

dire umbra
#

flanking as in Pathfinder 2e flaking

fading flax
#

the threat 8 melee toku sitting in the center map enabling their spearwall allies 😭

#

this isn't to degrade the talent, it looks really cool

normal dirge
#

if a tokugawa wants to sit in the centre of the map Exposed, then be my guest

fading flax
#

does rank 1 need an LoS clause? I'm not exactly sure how the current wording interacts through walls

#

like obviously shoes will be thrown, and maybe it's an FAQ thing or accepting that there's bad-faith interpretations of stuff

haughty dust
#

For spearhead. No, I had an idea and didn't implement it but the LOS stuff stayed

fading flax
#

my point was that it doesn't currently have an LoS clause, but again already talked myself out of it being necessary

haughty dust
#

I mean

#

If you have a seeking melee it might be relevant maybe...

fading flax
#

if a player told me their crossing swords against a guy through a wall, there's a whole shoebox of projectiles being thrown their way

fading flax
#

i always forget nanocomp

normal dirge
#

nanocomp warpike is i guess a thing

fading flax
#

which makes the toku thing actually kinda scary

haughty dust
#

V0.5.0 >:)

Google doc in pins...

This is the same changelog every time btw

Google Docs
Changelog

V0.5.0 Juggernaut Change LCP level 3 quick action to match document Crack shot: Stormtrooper Counterfire from level 2 now impairs the target and disables reactions This is very similar to heavy gunner, however does not come with reaction attacks and requires a resource to use unlike HG. Now it is...

#

Try not to kill the PCs for real this time - Talent rework playtest 4

Date an time: I'm swapping it up, I have a train earlier in the day but I bet I can make this session anyway<t:1772910000:F>... I also promise I won't crashout right before this one as well crylaughing. Session should be 3-5 hours with time for feedback after.
What's going on: I'm Al, you might know me. I want to run the fourd playtest for my reworked talents and see how they function and if there's any glaring issues
Player count: 4/4. React if interested. I'm going to bed soon so if there's more than 4 people by the next time I check I'll have to figure out whoever is in
Build restrictions: LL6, first party content only. Reworked talents only. Make a build treated as if you were playing in a campaign and it's expected to play as if in a campaign as well.
House rules: will be using Kai's NPC rebakes, Maria's alternate structure and stress table and captain Morgan's
Play limitations: Core power will be a roll of among the players, highest gets core. Efficient players are then given core (3 efficient and 1 not will not guarantee they get core). All overcharge will start at 1d6
LCP: The LCP is within the Google drive of the #1433168090371461241 and is very early access. Be weary with it breaking and please call out if it breaks your COMP/CON beforehand. If I update content please also be careful as I'm new to this and there's potential I mess with breaking content such as IDs

#

React if interested

#

Anyway... 🛌

dire umbra
#

Can I ask why juggernaut charge slows you afterwards ?

haughty dust
#

Because I wanted to make it not just better than boosting

#

Boost but only in a straight line for a free ram if used well is just better than boosting every round. And if it's something you wanted to do already such as on a nelson then there's no reason not to do it

#

I wanted it to not be only upsides and was curious if self slowed could help with that

#

Or if it was too much of a downside

subtle sapphire
#

Hm…. Self-slow until end of turn is a rules region I hadn’t considered before… i.e. no more movement shenanigans for the rest of the turn

haughty dust
#

End of next rather than current

#

Current is an idea...

#

But then you can still juggernaut charge with little consequence every round

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Oh sick I'm clever

#

Wait no I'm not

#

I just confused myself

#

Be reet

subtle sapphire
#

You could add a minimum distance moved (or maximum distance required) for the ram

haughty dust
#

It did