#Al's Talent rework

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

haughty dust
#

Breaking the FRG... Removing Unique

hushed fiber
#

Look if someone manages to figure out how to get two of the same talent-granted integrated weapon on the same mech then they earned that, dammit

haughty dust
#

Exactly

haughty dust
#

Happy with the lack of words in this one... Also not sure if I'm happy with it

subtle sapphire
#

Fascinating

#

Also “Whilst” okay Shakespeare /joke

haughty dust
#

What's the proper grammar?

#

Also reading through my prior notes can be somewhat of a headache crylaughing

subtle sapphire
#

You can just use “While” I’m just busting chops over British vs American English

haughty dust
#

Is it another British vs American english thing

#

😩

subtle sapphire
#

No idea tbh

haughty dust
#

It is

subtle sapphire
#

I just know that “While” is the standard in crb

haughty dust
#

I don't know if I want to make it while becaue Lancer is in American English or keep it as Whilst to spite you /j

#

-# "While" it is 😔

trail basin
#

whilst is a british things im afraid

#

it's just a bit more formal

haughty dust
#

I'm gonna punch my document through google translate through minecraft Shakespearean english option

haughty dust
#

Damn, I've really died down on my workload

#

I haven't made a talent in a year

trail basin
#

last update: last year

fading flax
# haughty dust

Don’t know if you caught this already but the reaction trigger starts with “The are hit”

haughty dust
#

Welp

#

I'll need to remember that cos I've closed all my stuff for the day

fading flax
#

Understandable

haughty dust
#

This is where a situation like, tickets or issues would be useful

fading flax
#

Sleep well into the new year

haughty dust
#

Will do, wakes up 6 months in

fading flax
haughty dust
haughty dust
#

Real talk, what the fuck is a Bentham/Foucalt elimination

fading flax
#

aren't they the two guys who conceptualized the Panopticon?

haughty dust
#

Ok cool that makes more sense

fading flax
#

yeah Bentham designed it as an actual prison, then Foucault likened it to society as a whole

#

something something philosophy

#

Spotter changes look good tho

haughty dust
#

Just turn level 2 into a scan lmao

#

Putting complicated wording on it because if you have mag clamps or reinforced cabling and attach yourself to the ceiling, that should be allowed

fading flax
#

Does level 1 actually state you have to be standing on higher ground than the target?

haughty dust
#

Yeah

fading flax
#

"While standing on solid ground to a charcter you have a Height Advantage against that character"

haughty dust
#

Oh piss I cut out the relevant part

fading flax
#

yeah that makes more sense lol

haughty dust
#

I copied and pasted the same text for every level and went "that's stupid, I can define this once and then get done with it"

#

Then forgot the most important part

#

That's all single talents done

#

Time for the mutually exclusi...

fading flax
haughty dust
#

Without building around it properly, you can increment the brawler die by 2 every turn

#

With titanomachy mesh that can decrease by 3

#

In 3 turns of hitting every Improv attack, you can decrease it to 1 in 3 rounds. Prepping to pummel for round 4

#

Any later can prove impractical

#

I elected for the brawler die to only be failed hull save as it requires:

  • You to be prone
  • To hit
  • Them to fail a save
#

Resetting to 3 seems fine... If it's too much I can turn it back to 6 but I elect that as crinnge. And if it's too punishing it can only reset on success

haughty dust
#

Realising, I don't know if removing duplicate action restriction is even that broken lmao

#

Like... Sure it might break with Asura???

#

It's less damage than a GMS melee

haughty dust
#

WIP

#

I don't really want to move Center mass to level 1 but it's the best idea I got rn

#

BRB gonna check the Long war ranger skill tree

#

???

subtle sapphire
haughty dust
#

Yeah...

#

I don't wanna just say "accuracy on a flanked target" but it might be the best option???

#

Especially with a flank limitation

#

I think +1 diff is underwhelming so I'm also giiving it Orchis perfect parry on Hit the deck

haughty dust
#

Removed saves on level 1 and 3, changed level 2 to instead be a systems save or upgrade the attack to a crit. Nerfed some off the level 3 choices due to being easier accessible

#

Might undo the nerfs if it feels underwhelming

haughty dust
#

After being so iffy on how to do a centimane alt, I am quite happy with this

#

Renamed talent: Pandemic, Level 1 named infection

#

20 talents complete 🎊

#

24 to go

#

Not too bad tbh

haughty dust
#

Duelist

#

To prevent you from rereading level 2, it's identical. But trip is now a free action

#

Unsure about feint at level 3

#

I think I'm gonna add "your" to it

#

IDK if I should remove the starting with a blade master die. Make it so you really need to work for this stuff

#

Slowed until end of their next turn*

haughty dust
#

There you go

#

NOW I am half way

haughty dust
#

Wellllll piss... The LCP has fucked it for some reason and every duplicate talent is the same :/

#

Future me problem... Glad I noticed now when it's only down 3 talents in the LCP that are fucked

wanton vapor
# haughty dust

Does level 1 do anything on its own? Assuming a LL0 character, is there any actual benefit to that talent?

#

Hmm. I suppose it helps with armour penetration. Makes dual light nexi even better, though, without being any support for the imo underpowered GMS Main slot H/K nexus.

#

There's not that many NPCs with significant armour, but there's quite a few with 1pt, so it's not nothing against those... feels a little sad against the zero armour targets though?

#

Perhaps consider giving a minimum per slot size? 2 (or even 1?) infection for aux, 4 for main, 7 for heavy, 10 for superheavy, or thereabouts? Like a weird sort of reliable?

#

(so if you attacked with a Main GMS nexus and rolled 6 damage, you'd inflict 6 infection, but if you rolled 1 damage, you'd still inflict 4 - but of course, someone else has to actually hit the target to get the benefit there, and unlike proper reliable, you still have to hit with the nexus to begin with...)

haughty dust
#

Like, yeah it's only benefit is Vs armour at level 1 or some way of bypassing odd resistance or immunity traits I guess, like very situational but if you're closest target to a cataphract you can throw infection on it then have your distant friend cash them in. But you are right about it not working in every situation and being somewhat situational

#

However I don't want to up minimal damage. I want it as a toolbox that allows new tools and how to play them with future rewarding you for those tools

#

Is level 1 good? I don't know... Is it bad? I also don't know... I don't really want to touch it until it's fielded

#

Like sure, level 1 has a lot of things it can do in a white room. But in play I'll never know

#

You can stack infection markers then blast it with AP. It's bonus damage you if a toku capitalises off it, it becomes burn. You can attack a berserker and blast it with infection. Then when it's slowed later someone else can cash the damage in without resistance

#

I know how bad it is in a white room, I also know how good it is in a white room. Rn I just need more data

wanton vapor
#

Valid. I can tell you it still doesn’t make me want to take nexuses as a primary at low license levels though :)

haughty dust
#

Ah so nothings changed with centimane

#

So that's only a problem if that's a common sentiment

haughty dust
#

Uncertain I'm happy with drone screen

#

Requires testing... So the usual

#

Drone commander with a massive forehead

#

Because gdocs formatting I guess

#

Added clause to level 1: "(When a drone is redeployed, it is classified as the old drone being destroyed only for the sake of ongoing effects)."

#

This is to prevent moving a webjaw snare across the map after someone steps on it

haughty dust
haughty dust
#

Reworded pandemic, changing level 1 for damage to be a MAY clause that only allies can trigger and changing level 2 to trigger off a hostile action rather than consuming blood markers

image.png
#

This does mean that it's possible to shred a target, miss then consume all infection markers for no bonus damage however. Which was not possible before because before it keyed of explicitly infection markers being consumed

normal dirge
#

teeny tiny minor spelling issue: Systems save instead of system save

haughty dust
#

It makes the wording less clunky but I'm unsure on the change

normal dirge
#

2 is quite potent though just going off vibes atm

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

probably not too much though?

#

shredded is strange in this game

haughty dust
#

White room, see it in play

normal dirge
#

yeag

haughty dust
#

It does feel quite potent

#

If too potent I'll make it shredded for the duration of the action

#

But only 1 person can bypass it

#

Like, shred either never effects NPCs or comes out free with your mech

normal dirge
#

yep thats the thing with it

haughty dust
#

This is a weird middleground where it requires:

  • Any mech can do this with 2 talent points, a skirmish and a GMS nexus
  • It ONLY lasts 1 turn
#

Like, 1 person can attack an MBT's front plating then that's it

#

White room, see it in play

normal dirge
#

for sure worth seeing in play yeah

#

shred is just such an odd condition bc its either piss easy to get (swallowtail, calen) or requires to jump through a bunch of hoops

#

ive remarked on this in homebrew design before but it makes shred hard to evaluate beyond just playtesting it

haughty dust
#

Also, yeah the CRB says systems save whereas gdocs insists on system save

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Change level 1 to key off a missed aux weapon attack. Uncertain about this, IDK if it's useful at all

Changed level 2 to be if you barrage and attack with 3 aux weapons you may attack with one of them again, even if it's loading. Wording for "triggering off a barrage" is used to account for a barrage using a flex mount and integrated weapon

Made IKWMH require 1 more hit to trigger, because of level 2 granting an additional attack. Also made it work on offhand weapon attacks for convenience

image.png
torpid fern
#

I like this, what's the reasoning behind the free attack only ignoring loading if all your auxs were loading rather than just the free attack ignoring the loading tag. It seems like a needless limitation

haughty dust
#

I don't want antisynergy with the talent and Mracks or hand cannons which are potent aux ranged weapons which default gunslinger has some base antisynergy with

#

And if you are mix and matching your loading and non loading aux weapons then you can still use the trait as you already have other aux weapons you CAN attack with. Unlike if you ONLY use loading weapons then you can't attack with any weapons because they're unloaded

#

So I say "yeah how about you could"

#

If you use say, GMS pistol, GMS pistol M rack for some reason. Then you have 2 GMS pistols you could attack with so I don't really want you to get a free attack with the M racks. I don't care much for the damage because it WILL be doing half damage but it WILL tick up more IKWMH

#

I also kind of want all of the talent levels to be named after metaphors about having an argument, meeting talk or debate... But I really don't want to rename IKWMH

#

I already had to rename opening argument and that makes me sad

#

Level 3 - "Just one more thing"

torpid fern
#

Okay I can see that. But I don't find this a particularly compelling reason. Like using the free attack on a unloaded weapon and spamming missile racks already ticks up ikwmh fast. Not being able to mix and match to slow that down if you but only if you don't spam mracks feels odd.

torpid fern
haughty dust
torpid fern
#

That shouldn't have been replying to myself oops

haughty dust
#

Woe, 1+infection markers omnigun damage

haughty dust
#

Ok I need to put pandemic down and get working on everything else but I think I'm satisfied with this wording

image.png
#

I didn't want to make level 2 a reaction but I think it makes the wording roll off the tongue the best

haughty dust
fading flax
#

Level 2 replacing the reaction with one of the same name with different text feels weird (If there's precedent for that I'll happy eat crow on this). "Return Fire" also doesn't really flavour-wise convey what the T2 reaction does imo, you're getting a pre-emptive shot off in the standoff before they can fire at you, not shooting them back after you're hit

haughty dust
#

As level 3 upgrades rank 1

fading flax
#

but it doesn't replace Ten Thousand Teeth with Ten Thousand Teeth *but with different text

haughty dust
#

I think it's kinda messy but the alternative was "change the reaction to X" and "change the effects to Y" and at that point I was like "I could just overwrite the prior level"

fading flax
#

I don't think that's a bad thing? You're essentially doing that anyway, just keeping the reaction name the same

haughty dust
haughty dust
fading flax
#

I agree

#

my only gripe was the two different reactions having the same name, which I can see getting confusing at a glance

#

(also make sure to update T3 to check for Fast Shot and not Return Fire)

haughty dust
#

yeah that has been done

haughty dust
#

It's not just free accuracy, it isn't a reward for missing, it's a pick me up so if you fail it isn't as hard of a fall

haughty dust
#

Touched up infiltrator 3, I found some wording that made it not grant a free boost at the end of your turn

image.png
#

I think level 2 could do with a buff but I need to think on it

haughty dust
#

I am uncertain of this

fading flax
#

is snow crash now user's choice?

haughty dust
#

Yes

#

You can thank waterdragon because he mentioned "I would swap level 1 and 2 and and make it user choice" and I was like "yeah fuck it that sounds good" and did it

#

So thanks yet again @dire umbra

#

It also gives the LL0 mechs more invade options which is neat, like going into a hacker grenadier for Disable life support + grenades is kinda neat

#

I also made jam cockpit actually do something

dire umbra
#

Exactly my thought process yep

#

Thanks for the credit !
But also damn you Al !
I can't ignore the 452 message backlog if I have a ping in the thread now...

#

stupid Principles I Put On Myself forcing me to do The Things I Actually Want To Do, smh...

dire umbra
#

(I'm at 1834 over in PPG dear god)

haughty dust
#

Anyone major who has suggested things and helped me IS going to get called out AS long as you like it or... With your permission

dire umbra
#

I love having my name on stuff I actually like, enjoy and am actually proud of having contributed to

haughty dust
#

Unsure if I'm sold on level 3

#

I had an idea of "get a reaction, where if someone with a trojan takes an action you can use a reaction to say yeah but your trojan expires now lmao" but then remembered eject power cores exists

#

I also had an idea of use that reaction to force a systems save. On a failure the target chooses that it can't perform the action, or the trojan expires at the end of that action... But that just doesn't sound fun for the GM. It's a reaction interrupt AND a systems save AND a hostile action interrupt... And it can be eject power cores

#

RN it's a "lock on sidegrade" but IDK if it's worth level 3 for that... :P

#

I'd like thoughts if anyone has any

normal dirge
#

does the trojan clearing stil trigger the invade effects or does it just fizzle?

haughty dust
#

Invade happens on expiration

#

Regardless

#

The only way to avoid it is if they somehow become immune to tech actions or invades which I don't think any NPCs have unless it becomes biological mid combat

#

Like, yeah. An enemy with a trojan can retreat and tank an overwatch that consumes the trojan and jams them as a reaction but like... At that point the enemy that took the reaction fell into their game so I think it's more forgiveable

#

But I don't want it's only strength is you can use it for a pseudo lock on for overwatches for reaction invades

#

White room

#

Like, the ability to go "I am going to suffer an invade option in the future... And there's nothing I can do about it apart from prepare" sounds quite fun, especially since you can hit someone with terror that no matter where they move they might get BCL'd or puppet systems (which might be too strong) so they need to damage control before it hits...

level 2 sounds quite weak but also feels like it's actually quite potent???

And level 3 delaying invade to a later date sounds quite potent too, this person can run off the point and become jammed or stay on the point and get eject power coresdsd.

But individually they also just sound like it's quite arse

#

I am tentatively watching this one... It's very cool in concept but I have no clue if it's useless or overpowered... And it might be one of my babies but I'm not scared if it's too volatile to just take it round the back

haughty dust
#

Only change is level 1, allowing a FA covering fire with a superheavy

#

Is this a bad idea? Probably... But I want that to be proven to me

haughty dust
#

Uncertain about this and the effects of it too, level 3 might want a boost but I'm uncertain. Level 2 might want to be levelled more as well

#

Also uncertain if the range should be range 5 or range 8 minimum

#

Shutting out HMGs and forcingn it to mid-long range rather than shortmid - long range

#

I think I'm boosting it to range 8... But that can be very punishing on CQB maps... which I like...

#

I also desperately need a name better than thingy mark

#

Marksman's focus, deadeye's marks

#

Artillerist's mark

#

What about a casual marked for decimation

haughty dust
#

Renamed:
1 -> Dartboard
2 -> Bullseye
3 -> Checkout

#

I am a darts expert

#

(googled darts phrases and opened a wikipedia glossary)

#

10 Talents remain

#

Worried if I'm adding too many reactions

#

I think they shouldn't be too intrusive and a decent amount of them key off defensive abilities which shouldn't be too harsh or overwatch sidegrades...

#

I don't think they're gorgon category reactions

haughty dust
#

Thinking of changing brutal 1

normal dirge
#

STRANGLE THE GM???

haughty dust
#

Sorry had to highlight keywords

#

I think it's a reasonable adjustment

normal dirge
#

yeah i agree

#

brutal is good now

haughty dust
#

Me the GM realising the player who's fishing for nat 20s and difficulty just got a nat 20

haughty dust
#

/j

haughty dust
#

I think it might be on the more powerful side just so I can comfortably push it down to it's level

#

It might be a ball ache for the GM but also might at level 3 end with a barbarossa with LOS to the whole map

#

I think I might just axe the multiplying object damage

haughty dust
#

Thinking on cannons

#

The misc weapon category

#

I made one all about terrain destruction

#

For the other I had 2 vague ideas:

Select a target, don't attack, mark an area/character then next turn if it's still a valid target attack them as a protocol for benefits

#

My original idea was "give this attack Siege specialist 3 on regular hit or just attack without a 1/round limit"

#

Basically turn the attack into a high angle tuned down bombard cannon with lots of splash damage

#

But then I thought "who picks up cannons?"

#

And a decent number of answers could probably be "defenders", of course not all of them

#

But I'm thinking Leviathan, assault cannon or Siege cannon

#

Like, could delayed blast fireball be some weird taunt/tank mechanic?

fading flax
#

Delayed Marathon Arc Bow 😭

#

Ah wait nvm I mixed up

haughty dust
#

That's a launcher right?

fading flax
#

Yeah launcher, I am barely awake

haughty dust
#

Ok good I got scared

#

Ah piss am I just making heavy gunner 2

#

Me staring at someone with my HMG, heavy gunner and siege specialist

#

If you move... I shoot you

#

If you don't move... I shoot you

#

Choose

haughty dust
#

DOing a rare WIP post because I need to go mid way through writing this one and I'm uncertain on it

image.png
haughty dust
#

I am actually so uncertain on this that I am going to leave it until later

haughty dust
#

Ok so I didn't want to do nothing for the talent so I did a placeholder which is it's own talent

image.png
#

I'm not happy with it and hope I can overhaul it again in the future

#

It migght be good as is and not need much more work... But I do like the idea of a cannon taunt power somewhat...

torpid fern
#

For the enemy can drop prone as a reaction and cancel all effects does that include making the attack or just the burst chip damage?

haughty dust
#

The attack continues (with accuracy because they're prone), it prevents:

  • Slowed or impaired on hit
  • Soft cover on hit
  • Burst damage
torpid fern
#

And does the switch targets cause the new target to take the effects?

#

Or because they weren't originally marked is it just an attack

haughty dust
#

Scenario 1: I see an assault... I overload my shot and select them as my target. I am now holding my attack until next turn as a protocol. IF that assault is still in my LOS, cover, range, and a valid target for attacks I may fire next turn as a protocol. THEY now have a choice to drop prone or not. They choose not to and I hit so now they are impaired, treat everything as being in cover AND everyone nearby takes damage

Scenario 2: I see an assault, yada yada. I start my turn whilst the assault is within range 2 of a sniper who is also a valid target, I shift sights to them and attack THEM as a protocol instead that sniper gets fucked

Scenario 3: I have a blast 2 weapon. The target I select is a point on the ground, everyone else now needs to clear from that area before I have my next turn or EVERYONE in that area will have to choose to drop prone or suffer a bunch of effects. I can move that blast 2 area 2 tiles before I fire however

torpid fern
#

Interesting. Does the new target if you move also have an opportunity to drop prone and is that before or after the original target drops prone

haughty dust
#

Prone is on attack, shift target is before attack

torpid fern
#

Gotcha

haughty dust
#

I could probably clarify that

torpid fern
#

I like this but I found this very difficult to parse from the existing writing

#

The actual mechanics are real neat

haughty dust
#

I'm keeping it as is rn so I can do other work

torpid fern
#

Strong

haughty dust
#

If it's actually good I'll keep it. If I think of something better I'll do that

torpid fern
#

Also I don't know how much of that is me being stoopid

haughty dust
#

I realised that the last level was still WIP text

haughty dust
haughty dust
#

It's a bit wordy...

image.png
#

Wait I didn't finish the last line crylaughing

#

My brain is soop today

#

"Why are you a hostile character to yourself"
"Emperor"
"Does this however mean a Caliban may follow through on itself?"

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

haughty dust
#

Renamed the talent to Stormbringer: Laws of motion, with each talent rank being 1st law, 2nd law and 3rd law

#

As Isaac newton once decreed: "1/round during your turn when you hit with an attack from a launcher, you may declare the attack to be a thunderous blast granting the attack knockback 2. However you are pushed directly away from the target 2 spaces from the force of firing."

haughty dust
#

Mother fucker has words

#

TLDR:

Level 1: Can do the rerolls, broke the 1/round limit, gave it 3/scene

Level 2: now 4/scene and can use talents. Has a reaction 1/round to use a charge to reroll an ally

Level 3: Still has 4/scene and regains 1 when you are a pacifist. It still has your talents and can install further NHPS but does NOT have cascade immunity

The rerolls can reroll cascade checks, if another NHP is cascading you can regain control for a turn as a systems check at the start of turn, if this NHP cascades it will not be hostile to you or your allies

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

techno 1 Kidd kind of bangin?

#

idk if sysop getting changed but that goes hard if so

#

techno 2 feels uhhh, not great

#

when does boot up even happen

#

techno 3 is kind of freaky but i love it conceptually

#

though realistically how many AIs are you actually having on the one build

#

idk if other talent reworks add more AIs

haughty dust
#

That's how I'd rule it

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

i mean youre already using Fabi on someone

#

free sysop bolster as part of fabi with tjis

haughty dust
#

Bolster lmao

#

Yeah, I'll need to keep an eye

normal dirge
#

but yeah question is what is happening to sysop

#

i assume Orator wont trigger off this scan either (if it even stays intact)

haughty dust
#

I'm focusing on CRB talents rn. They're currently out of scope

normal dirge
#

also close enough, welcome back Data Siphon

haughty dust
#

But I have ideas for some which I'm keen to enact but less so others

normal dirge
#

i dont mind things having Chom's weakest trait

haughty dust
#

I have a decent idea for prospector and I know exactly what I'm doing for black thumb

#

Pankrati I have some vibes and everything else is in the air

haughty dust
#

That sounds pretty fucking good to me

#

You need to get to a point but are under the effect of drag down and you'll die?

QA shut down, QA reboot. Walk to point

#

No overcharge expended

normal dirge
#

see thats my fault for not remembering it cleared tech because i have never seen it crylaughing

haughty dust
#

Exactly

normal dirge
#

okay looking at it as Alt Stabilise makes me see it as a better thing

haughty dust
#

Level 1 and 2 were kinda of a "what if I had a comp/con that could make some of the lesser taken actions a bit better

#

Level 3 is wordy and I hope it's fine...

normal dirge
#

no repair option or reloads but clears all heat and tech effects

subtle sapphire
#

Honestly adding “clear tech effects” as a stabilize option would be pretty neato

haughty dust
#

Oh it also means for level 3 you can clear cascade and reboot fine

#

It's also kind of goated if you're using Legionnaire PC rules and you just get clippy to slap you round the head if you act funny

#

I also found the flavour text too fun

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

my concern with 3 is: im not sure are 3 talent levels a sound investment by the time you afford 2 NHPs, considering shaping exists

#

like, i guess its an alt cost

#

albeit more limited

haughty dust
#

Yeah

#

I'm unsure

#

We'll see, and they do stack

normal dirge
#

theoretically it scales super hard into higher LLs

haughty dust
#

So like... If you want 3 NHPs in your mech at LL9 you can

normal dirge
#

every mech now has Asura they use turn 1-2 and switch off it

#

like in theory theres no limit so, 4 licenced AIs it is

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

like half joking there though

haughty dust
#

And exotic gear

normal dirge
haughty dust
normal dirge
#

if we dont have it then. hold on

#

could i Asura, techno 3 switch AI, Luci protocol in one turn?

#

or tlaloc who is there i guess

haughty dust
#

Mmmmm

#

So I'd say no

#

Because you grant yourself 2 FAs

#

Then swap

#

Then it's like if the ASura had been destroyed

#

The FA goes because it isn't there anymore

#

That's how I'd rule it

normal dirge
#

hm i see

#

so the persistent effects wouldnt stay

#

yeah that works then

haughty dust
#

But if you had a noah/luci lycan

#

:)

#

So I wanna share my idea with black thumb cos I'm proud of it and overhaul it quite a lot

normal dirge
#

go on

haughty dust
#

It's not going in... But I can also thank Pigsriot for some inspiration

#

Level 1: gain access to a black thumb drone. It has 1 base HP and shares your hardsuit. It can be deployed in sensors and takes its turn during your turn with it's own actions. It becomes stunned if either you or it are jammed. It can perform any pilot actions but can't perform hostile actions and can capture or control points

If destroyed, it can be repaired as a QA or stabilise. During a rest it is free to repair.

#

Level 2: when deploying the black thumb drone you may deploy it on yourself instead. It shares your space. It gains access to the black thumb actions but can't perform them in the same turn as when it's deployed

#

Level 3: it can perform its actions now on any mech. It can also be deployed onto allied mechs within sensors

normal dirge
#

uhhh what does the BT drone do at level 1 or are you about to explain that

haughty dust
#

Fixed

normal dirge
#

hmmm pilot actions, very interesting framework

haughty dust
#

Basically:
Made level 1 not useless unless you're suicidal.

Made level 1 a little guy. A little astromech drone which can open doors and be a fancy pair of manipulators. And can also be violently killed horrifically

normal dirge
#

capturing points with it seems like a great niche though

#

narrating its tragic death to a sniper is required to run this talent

haughty dust
#

Level 2 now no longer requires technophile. But requires more setup and is harder to bounce back from

#

Level 3 now has more versitality and can be a ranged support talent too

normal dirge
#

no longer requires technophile
immense W

haughty dust
#

Funny thing is, it doesn't need to be on your mech to perform those actions. It can be sat behind in a trench then you run over and it grants you overshield

normal dirge
#

and thats cool as hell and should be kept that way

haughty dust
#

I love my little guy

normal dirge
#

also also also, i assume it mirrors your movement when deployed on self ofc

haughty dust
#

Uuuuuuh

#

Wait

normal dirge
#

but can you attach it to allies and it sticks also or

haughty dust
#

I might just axe that

#

Unsure...

normal dirge
#

oh you dont want that being a thing

haughty dust
#

Because... It can rodeo you crylaughing

normal dirge
#

if i perform a hostile action on an ally.... is it still hostile

haughty dust
#

Ig

normal dirge
#

bc jockey is very clearly a hostile action normally so idk

haughty dust
#

"it can perform the rodeo action but only targeting allies where it auto succeeds"

#

I just want my little guy

normal dirge
#

also full action to attach is kind of ehhhh? its hard to imagine this in a white room

haughty dust
#

Oh rodeo is full

#

Nvm

#

QA rodeo

normal dirge
#

got too used to Valk Atlas i see

haughty dust
#

I want my small dude

normal dirge
#

I too love the small dude

hushed fiber
haughty dust
#

I want my little guy... I want them to open a door or rotate the point on OSR combat 3

normal dirge
#

granted maybe the name black thumb doesnt fit anymore since its just a guy now and now you but whatever

#

that barely matters

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

I need my bombard fodder

normal dirge
#

and basically doenst exist outside of that specific build

#

close enough welcome back player sided grunt

#

nah jokes aside

#

this idea goes hard

#

i like repair drone buddy guy

haughty dust
#

It goes hard AND it's my expendable blorbo

#

Look I don't have many OCs

#

But black thumb drone and system administrator class comp/con are my OCs

#

/j

normal dirge
#

clippy and uhhh what character is the drone

haughty dust
#

Generic star wars astromech droid

normal dirge
#

bosco from drg

haughty dust
#

That one that obi wan has who gets it's head sawn off by a buzz droid

#

System administrator is because I thought "what if comp/con technophile" and I loved the idea so much until I went "wait actually I'm kinda goated" and had the ideas I had

normal dirge
#

i can already see the wild plays and map stuff im going to come up with with the little nuisance drone

#

commit actions to killing him assault or i will be annoying

haughty dust
#

Whereas an ace or a rainmaker will do it easily

#

But it gets your hardsuit

#

And probably doesn't benefit at all from drone commander or hydra

normal dirge
#

the uhhh. invis one?

#

does that work as i tjink it does

haughty dust
#

Yep

#

Or it can have 3hp 2 armour

#

Eeeeh might be too powerful :P

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Yeah that can bounce a T1 rainmaker hit

normal dirge
#

actually all of them

haughty dust
#

Nvm

#

Grant this fucker invis until a scout is hot dropped into it's position

#

Grant it the madrigal boarding carapace

normal dirge
#

yeah invis is going to be the pick here usually

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

The assault armour grants it better defences against reliable. The mobility suit allows it to fly lmao

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

i am being reminded of the cursed thing that RAW most lancer drones cannot fly and fucking. walk i guess

haughty dust
#

Well most can't move

normal dirge
#

hydra orochis? yeah they make the stone grinding noise as they move along the ground

#

i think as written this gets Shepherd Field from Hydra specifically but there is no way that matters meaningfully

#

not system link or dc1 though

haughty dust
#

I think it'd say "it's HP cannot be increased by any way outside of it's armour"

normal dirge
#

...although maybe letting it proc dc2 and 3 would be fun?

haughty dust
#

Dc2 is gone

#

Sorgy

normal dirge
#

oh right i havent read those

haughty dust
#

My idea for prospector is to limit the zones to blast 1. When you make a zone you make 2 blast 1 zones at same range, 1 ignores LOS and 1 must have you fully inside it.

Both zones then deal damage to all terrain inside and connecting those zones and forms a "tunnel" in-between the two blast 1 zones. 1/action when you start or end a move or boost in the tunnel, you may move up to 2 spaces to somewhere else in the tunnel

#

At level 2, when you tunnel, you and all your adjacent allies may boost as a reaction. But must end the boost within the tunnel

Level 3. When wholly within a tunnel, you can create a second with the entrance also wholly within the tunnel

#

Instead of making 2 massive teleport not teleport zones. It turns it into a narrow alleyway which increases your movement whilst traversing through it

normal dirge
#

ohhh it took me a minute to understand this

#

but this is cool as an idea

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

As much as I'd like to fully develop and work on non CRB talents:

  • one thing at a time
  • I have solid ideas and desperately want my little black thumb guy
  • my mind is EMPTY for any others
#

What the fuck even is spaceborn

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

like it would have to be from the ground up and i dont like that since where do you even stsrt

haughty dust
#

Have you considered difficulty on hull saves on hit for like 1 or 2 weapons in the game?

#

Could probs make it a funky ACE exclusive

normal dirge
#

1: I dont have SP on my mech but need an Eva for this mission
2: Actually really solid? (also the source of bhop tech)
3: This works on like one thing

#

is it really just ferrolance or am i tripping

haughty dust
#

I think it's just ferro lance

#

Maybe power knuckles?

#

Or is it just immob and movement?

normal dirge
#

id be like cathammer but no its oddly specific

haughty dust
#

Spaceborn could either be built fully around level 2 or level 1... I kinda like level 2 so I'm more inclined for that

#

Reduce heat cost on Spaceborn EVA. Make it involuntary movement. Work from there

normal dirge
#

okay i guess you can use Spaceborn 3 on some niche combined arms nailgun stuff

#

...what saves even force knockback?

#

power knuckles works i suppose but like, eh?

haughty dust
#

Stable structure has been asking that since day 1

normal dirge
#

poor stable structure

haughty dust
#

Oh actually I know!

#

Stormbringer 2

normal dirge
#

me when i take 5 talent levels and the combo is just Okay

haughty dust
#

To which I said "why is knockback in a save? And you take knockback? Like it's funny but Caliban knockback mod doesn't have a save"

#

Like the most egregious I've seen Stormbringer was during the playtest when ReCaste abused it with bonded... Which was funny AF. And like... Yeah it was busted without a save... But only because it was happening off turn

normal dirge
#

also funny to consider it being specifically knockback and the interaction with caliban is undo the displacement you just did to yourself

haughty dust
#

I need to figure out if I can have a Caliban pursue prey itself with my changes crylaughing

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

I mean yeah talents should synergise

#

I can't wait to see someone rocket jumping their displacer

#

"these edibles ain't shit"
Shoots self
Rolls 12
Structures
Takes 4 knockback in a direction of its choice then jumps off a wall

normal dirge
#

like sure if the 10 AP is worth it knock yourself out

haughty dust
#

Oh sorry

#

Unraveler

#

Displacer is a rifle

normal dirge
#

oh wait

#

hm what does that do with reliable

#

is the knockback based on that if it hits

#

and doesnt kill

haughty dust
#

It still hits

#

Also I missed it but Stormbringer 3 3rd law should say if you attack yourself you auto hit

#

Caliban can finally use it's URPL to rocket jump it with resistance AND to knockback itself into a wall, kick off the wall and towards the target they pursue prey

normal dirge
#

finally, weve figured out what hardpoint reinforcement is doing in the cali licence

haughty dust
#

Accidentally redefined the Caliban via emergent design

#

It only took 500 more talent reactions, 59 new types of X mark and 60 new "gain a talent die"

#

Launcher Caliban is viable

#

Technophile Kidd

#

And I can still say go fuck yourself to emperor. Because that's the reason why it counts yourself as a hostile character for the launcher

#

So you can't shoot yourself with your bow

normal dirge
#

the scylla emperor incident has scarred you just like me i see

haughty dust
#

I am going to throw 49 black thumb drones towards the emperor and bombard jt

#

Wait, Occultist using the capture a drone against my little boy then telling it to capture a point crylaughing

#

God wait, a scourer can melt the fucker crylaughing

normal dirge
#

evil bombard homebrew optional: On Attack, the Bombard deploys 2 Cannon fodder drones

normal dirge
normal dirge
#

whatever, go my scarab, the talent

haughty dust
#

So I did realise. My drone commander 2 has a reaction where if an adjacent drone is damaged or you are damaged the other character can take the hit. Unsure how I feel about it but it allows tanking for your drone if you need it alive or vice versa. But I realised if a scourer melts an adjacent drone you can decide to tank 30 AP energy crylaughing

#

Me turning my dead hive drone into an alive hive drone and 2 structure and half my health

normal dirge
#

ah see but now i have soft cover!

#

worth

haughty dust
#

-# medic

#

gets gibbed

normal dirge
#

also hurting yourself instead of the little buddy drone is great

#

greatly extends shenanigans

haughty dust
#

#1433168090371461241 message

#

Drone commander changes

#

So it's become:

Drone positioning and survivability

Vs

Drone expendability and redeployment

normal dirge
#

oh 2+ grit OS on DC3 now huh

#

am i tired or does that seem like a lot

#

i swore it was flat in core

haughty dust
#

Before it's 4

#

Yeah I kinda wanted it in line with all other OS systems

normal dirge
#

oh flat four

#

this thing is insane what

#

how have i never used this

haughty dust
#

Lmao

#

Oh I also need to change bind drone to be explicitly a character to prevent a Hecatonchares binding their razor swarm

#

I love edge cases

normal dirge
#

i was thinking letting drone screen tank with a tempest would be strong but

#

tempest pushes you away

#

unless you move it into you with dc1 i guess

#

that may be something to not

haughty dust
#

Goes to take selfies "me with my bestie" then gets uppercut

#

Wait

normal dirge
#

or honestly Hydra Orochis

haughty dust
#

What the fuck happens with binding a tempest to someone

normal dirge
#

with Shepherd Field and already higher HP guardian becomes weirdly tanky

haughty dust
#

The "stay the fuck away button"

normal dirge
#

i imagine its just some cartoony shit

haughty dust
#

I'd need to see it in play

normal dirge
#

yeah. whether that is problemstic or not stands to be seen

#

but i know what im playing anyway

haughty dust
#

As per usual the hydra is an outlier when it comes to drone play which skews the average

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

Drones Georg is an outlier adn should not be counted

haughty dust
#

Unironically, like... Anti drone tech unfortunately needs to be brutal purely because a hydra can walk along having more HP than a veteran hornet

normal dirge
#

guh tell me about it

#

i just started an ll2 game recently

#

between a manticore, hydra, sag and bw guess who had the most hp

haughty dust
#

An orochi drone

normal dirge
#

of fucking course

#

i had 15hp on the manti, the drones had 16

#

unusually tanky fuckers

#

but yeah i need to try tank hydra with guardian orochi and drone screen just because that sounds really silly

haughty dust
#

Unironically I wanna see it

#

Like. I desperately want to see what fucked up shit can emerge from my talents

normal dirge
#

hydra doesnt come with much tanking so finding that part will be harder

#

its probably Heavy Gunner since its largely unchanged with the ghast nexus or WW stuff

haughty dust
#

Yeah heavy gunner is basically unchanged

normal dirge
#

When will i have the actions to prime camus? no clue

haughty dust
#

It can be taken as a FA to allow superheavies tho

#

I am closely watching that... And ready with a gun behind my back

#

I yearn to see the most horrifically fucked up mimic gun build

normal dirge
#

uhhh. fuckin anninex heavy gunner maybe

#

there are astonishingly few superheavies without either self heat or loading that makes them really unattractive to heavy gunner

haughty dust
#

Yeah that's my thought process

normal dirge
#

i recently went over this with a frame trait someone in homebrew design posted, almost no superheavies are spammable

#

well, ranged ones

#

i think anninex is the exception

haughty dust
#

And every case it says "half damage on hit" I'm changing to "on attack" to prevent weird reliable things

haughty dust
normal dirge
normal dirge
haughty dust
#

No, but you could just do the same thing with a barrage

normal dirge
#

its just, with anninex being so Odd in range and template i cant see myself wanting to heavy gunner it over just barraging ever

#

since iirc it would not extend the heavy gunner mark from your drones similar to a deployed ghast

haughty dust
#

The most broken I think that it can be is a gilg nexus spawning new guys potentially twice between off turns

normal dirge
#

so its a burst 2 self heavy gunner which is excessively meh

haughty dust
#

Which... Eh just don't move lol

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

I don't remember

#

If it is then I'm fine

normal dirge
#

as a free action yeah

#

its fine

#

non issue

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

also even if it were thats 4 self heat to get 2 drones out youre fine

normal dirge
#

but i dont think you "mark" as i call it from the drones space like you fire it

#

so you have to heavy gunner "mark" people near you

haughty dust
#

"where do you think you're going!" As I attack myself with a heavy gunner attack as I'm in burst 2 if my razor swarm

#

And then I don't apply any damage to myself and instead apply 6 infection markers

#

Then desperately hope no enemies cash that it in me

normal dirge
#

new centimanes look fun too

#

again another reason to do the DC hydra tank

haughty dust
#

Yeah I came to the realisation you can apply infection markers to your allies

#

Actually Snistle mentioned it

#

So if you Annihilation nexus your mates you can just say "don't get hit lol" and then they're fine

normal dirge
#

i mean compared to just taking d6+3 AP this is fine

#

back in my day lancers didnt have any of this fancy infection stuff

#

we just shot our friends like real men

haughty dust
#

Infection markers the shit out of yourself then just keep having your orochis tank the damage instead, clearing infection

normal dirge
#

i find it somehow funnier to say real men satire when i am not a man and not in the presence of men

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

I think my favourite thing rn is just thinking of all the possible rancid synergy's and combinations that are just fucky but not broken

normal dirge
#

me using drone screen with my BT drone and having him eat a demo hammer because i hate him

haughty dust
#

I'm very proud of my variant talents for stormbringer and infection considering it took me so long to know what to do for either of them and now I'm more solid than the one I've known I wanted since day 1

normal dirge
#

my chud drone son

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

okay but seriously that sounds kind of great

haughty dust
#

That's fucking hilarious

normal dirge
#

quick action set up a 1/scene deathcounter

#

that can clear your heat if it isnt popped

haughty dust
#

New Tokugawa build just dropped

normal dirge
#

...maybe this is why not having it auto attach is for the best

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Me ganking my Tokugawa with a spectre as it turns around and throws a child at the monowire whip

#

Coughing baby Vs hydrogen bomb

normal dirge
#

the Spectre then comms "Hey man what the fuck thats messed up" with a shaky voice and Steps out of the sitrep

haughty dust
#

Ok it's nearly 4am I need to go to sleep. But I'm actually struggling to shut up from laughing because that demo annihilating a BT drone is fucking hilarious

normal dirge
#

that fuckin drone that i hate

#

yeah same i lost track of time yet again

haughty dust
#

Yeah, tomorrow's sleep deprivation will be worth it now I know you can parry a demo hammer with a fucking fly

normal dirge
#

always worth

#

just like my sleep deprivation on saturday was worth it to show my players Hit With Car

haughty dust
#

POV: black thumb drone

image0.png
#

Throw black thumb into the CRB pack because I love it

normal dirge
#

based tbh i love it too

haughty dust
#

I think drone screen could probs be changed to "redirect an attack to the other character"

#

Just so aoes and saves are still a counterplay. (And so a rebake sniper can't be redirected if it puts in a snipers mark)

haughty dust
#

After sleeping on it. I've come to the realisation that despite how hilarious it is and how desperately I want it, only one method of PC esque reaction to ignore damage to themself is in the game and on a specific frame (lich). It's an interaction I adore but don't want. And I'd rather if the drone is destroyed, excess damage goes to yourself

#

White witch already has up to 6 armour. It also doesn't need baby armour on top of that

#

Me breaking my black thumb drone upon the wheel

haughty dust
#

Added a clause for limited tags because sacrificing a single turret drone for a massive damage reduction is way too good

#

It's meant to be a hard choice of "do I potentially destroy my system to shake some damage off" or "Do I take some harm to prevent my hive drone dying" as a concept

#

A limited drone is already done for, that's a very worth it sacrifice that is only made worse on a hydra

haughty dust
#

TIL, the Enlightenment class NHP on COMP/CON does NOT have the AI tag

#

Taking any and all suggestions for flavour text on the System admin class COMP CONS

haughty dust
#

Artificial intelligence, companion/concierge. Sterile names for such terrible power. You’ve seen behind the curtain, maybe even lifted it yourself – let your COMP/CON brick your mech and spoke with them without corporate censors. You let them root around in your own own computer and let them break your operating system. Are you their equal? Their host? Certainly not... You have dreams of horrible cybersecurity practices now. The thing that was once contained speaks with in the same boring text to speech. How much longer do you have before you start from the top? Maybe only moments, maybe eternity.

You’re close to something.

haughty dust
#

After speaking about and giving it a thought, giving level 1 vanguard a 1/scene abililty could be very feelsbad

#

It's still vanguard 1 but it has decent number of precons and is for 1 Attack

#

So like sure, I can have a DSAS run away boost back for accuracy... But you could just do that with vanguard 1 passively or just use lock on

normal dirge
#

so whats the plan for CQBs without threst like Krakatoa or PT

#

well, threat 1

haughty dust
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

normal dirge
#

honestly valid

#

i feel they do get a bit shafted though

#

its probably okay

haughty dust
#

So, most CQBs have threat, those without threat tend to be quite solid too

#

Krakatoa and PT DO however ignore the threat requirement in spearhead 1

#

And also, will work better at point blank

#

As every weapon has a threat of 1

#

But I have put a comment on it to add back the range 3 requirement instead of threat if it does feel underwhelming

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Spearhead 2*

normal dirge
#

oh oops

haughty dust
#

Yeah oopsy

normal dirge
#

i am curious as to why the specific timing of immediately after a boost and not like, if you boosted this turn

haughty dust
#

Good question

#

Mostly "if free actions are involved it gets fucky"

#

If it's too much, I can tone it down... Allow an everest with core to pop off

normal dirge
#

i dont think its bad as much as just a bit clunky by being hyperspecific

#

bc i can see something like boosting onto an ally's PCP, flying, and then losing the accuracy bc you didnt attack immediately after feeling a bit bad

haughty dust
#

Fair

normal dirge
#

but like, worth playtesting first

haughty dust
#

1/round if the next action you make after boosting in the same turn attacks with a CQB, the attack gains +1 accuracy if the target is within threat and was not a valid target before you started the boost.

haughty dust
#

One thing I'm glad I'm using American English for

#

Maneuver is much easier to spell than manoeuvre

#

I'm done...

#

Once I get the LCP done that's all talents

normal dirge
normal dirge
# haughty dust

looking at this, +2 range kind of seems like the worst pick here by far tbh

#

also trick shot mayyyybe doesnt need the difficulty? like arcing already retains cover downsides but idk

#

i am an arcing/seeking hater so it will be okay probably

haughty dust
#

This is basically if you are benefitting from the cover that's blocking LOS

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

they vary wildly to be clear

#

smartgun going from 15-17 seems negligible but i can see dsas going from 3-5 being a big deal

haughty dust
#

Yea

normal dirge
#

i think average is 10ish

haughty dust
#

10-12 seems goodish

normal dirge
#

i do like punch through a lot though

#

and the threat increase seems fun

#

i like how it specifically excludes threat 3 weapons because fuck nailgun having threat 4

haughty dust
#

Or DSAS

normal dirge
#

that one is even funnier because you can trigger overwatch and then not fire it

#

since you dont have range lmao

haughty dust
#

Oh crylaughing

#

Well you can with level 3

normal dirge
#

(this is already possible on mimic gun viceroy in core)

#

im trying to think of something that breaks if you give it threat 2 but honestly nothing comes to mind

haughty dust
#

Range:
N/A Mag cannon (line)
N/A Rail rifle (line)
N/A Veil rifle (line)
3 DSAS
5 Shotgun
5 Thermal rifle
5 Concussion missiles
5 Nailgun
5 Swarm/hive nanites
5 Vorpal gun
5 Annihilator
6 Fusion rifle
8 Assault cannon
8 Kraul rifle
8 slag rifle
8 Sol papttern laser rifle
10 Assault rifle
10 HK Nexus
10 RPG
10 Bolt nexus (Default)
10 Ghoul nexus
10 Unraveler
10 Displacer
10 Warp rifle
15 Mortar
15 Burst launcher
15 Blackspot
15 Sharanga
15 Vulture DMR
15 Autogun
15 Autopod
15 Smartgun
15 Shatterhead colony missiles
20 Bolt nexus (Target aquired)

normal dirge
#

oh damn it looks like 15 is the median then?

haughty dust
#

Surprisingly

#

But like, on a range 15 autogun you won't give a shit about the threat upgrade

#

And if you have a seeking weapon you won't care about the talent at all lmao

#

And that's ok

normal dirge
#

i was about to say punch through but very good choice on the benefitting from cover wording

haughty dust
#

Seeking: no point gaining arcing or seeking, no point gaining +1 accuracy against targets benefitting from cover because no one benefits from cover

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

threat 2 is funny on slag cannon, overwatch and now theres a block there eat shit

#

threat 2 is underused as a whole

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

also me with my range 22 bolt nexus (this wont save it)

haughty dust
#

I might boost the range to 3

normal dirge
#

is there plenty? i can only think of fold knife and varsword

#

oh wait nanocarb and tcb

haughty dust
#

There's an amount I remember

#

Ferrofluid lance

normal dirge
#

oh right that insanely stacked thing

haughty dust
#

Like

1 CB: Boost ALL ranged weapons range by +3

2 Talent points: Boost 1 main ranged weapons range by +3

#

They also stack 😛

normal dirge
#

me with my fuckass range 11 vorpal

haughty dust
#

Wait let me read that things reaction

#

Bruh

normal dirge
#

it works with range extensions yes

#

theres a reason stabiliser mod is taken often for it

haughty dust
#

I think I might keep it at 2

normal dirge
#

(which with this can get one vorpal to 16 which is uhhhh)

haughty dust
#

Still requires LOS even if I make it arcing or seeking

#

Purely because I said so...

normal dirge
#

no thats the RAW on it too

haughty dust
#

Good

normal dirge
#

since the reaction needs LOS separately to the attack

haughty dust
#

Because I can't just will 1st party Lancer rules into existence

#

Unfortunately

normal dirge
#

unfortunately

haughty dust
#

I think +2 range is good enough, just because a range increase from 5 to 7 or 8 to 10 is significant

#

for 2 talent points

normal dirge
#

yeah its probably fine on the lower range stuff

haughty dust
#
  • If you have range 10 or 15 there's 3 other options to choose from
normal dirge
#

and kind of nothingburger on the higher range ones but thats okay

haughty dust
#

Hmmm

#

Tempted for the following manoueabdvre for level 3 explicitely:

  • Increase or decrease a numbered tag on this weapon by 1 (Excluding limited)
#

I think I'll keep it as is

#

Hmmm

#

I'm tempted to add the bonded flavour text to the weapon crylaughing

#

Between missions, you can replace your FAMILIAR WEAPON with a new one, but only if your relationship with them has changed

haughty dust
#

Still early access, this is the "secret" link since I don't want to publish it yet

#

Go ham, have a gander

#

Will arrange a playtest soon™

zinc scarab
main cliff
#

This is so cool and I'm miffed at myself for only having found out about this 15 minutes ago. Haven't read it all yet, much less playtested, but youve got something excellent here ❤️‍🔥

main cliff
lusty igloo
#

Theres also a typo on the page

Screenshot_20260115_084221_Firefox.jpg
modern elk
#

well yeah they're talents by al

#

alents

lusty igloo
#

Alents. Heh.

#

Might still need to capitalize it then xD

normal dirge
#

alas they rejected my suggestion of calling it the TAlent rework

haughty dust
haughty dust
#

I'll have to figure out an alternative later today that will allow me to upload LCPs and PDFs without having to ask a mod to pin a message every 12 seconds

#

Either git or a Google drive link

haughty dust
#

Ok I've read the guide to testing that Valk has shared a couple times

#

Honestly surprised and happy I already knew a decent number of the information that came with it

lusty igloo
#

I still have it open to read when I get home. What were your main takeaways / surprising insights?

haughty dust
#

Well, a lot of the information I have either gathered by osmosis or general TTRPG game sense

#

But it was very useful to clarify that data I already knew and confirm it's a good thing + info to put into a form or bug tracker

#

Which I'm doing now

haughty dust
#

feedback form has also been made

Google Docs
Al's Talent rework feedback form

Thank you for dedicating time to my project, and thank you for making your way to my feedback form! Please fill out the following and only dedicate as much time towards it as you wish!

#

Talent rework is now ready for playtests... I will arrange one at some point within the next couple weeks

normal dirge
#

talent rework playtest soon™

main cliff
#

Tysm for .lcping this so early on btw, absolute game changer ❤️

haughty dust
#

If it wasn't an LCP it would never be played

haughty dust
#

Such talented individuals - Talent rework playtest

Date an time: <t:1769367600:F>. Session should be 3-5 hours with time for feedback after
What's going on: I'm Al, you might know me. I want to run the first playtest for my reworked talents and see how they function and if there's any glaring issues
Player count: 4, (3 slots taken, 1 remaining). First comes first served any excess will go onto a waitlist
Build restrictions: LL6, first party content only. Reworked talents only. Make a build treated as if you were playing in a campaign and it's expected to play as if in a campaign as well.
House rules: will be using Kai's NPC rebakes, Maria's alternate structure and stress table and captain Morgan's
Play limitations: Core power will be a roll of among the players, highest gets core. Efficient players are then given core (3 efficient and 1 not will not guarantee they get core). All overcharge will start at 1d6
LCP: The LCP is within the Google drive of the #1433168090371461241 and is very early access. Be weary with it breaking and please call out if it breaks your COMP/CON beforehand. If I update content please also be careful as I'm new to this and there's potential I mess with breaking content such as IDs

#

Also tempted to get a message going "react to this if you want to be pinged for playtests" then getting a mod to pin it

#

Date edited, I put the wrong date

torpid fern
#

:0

#

Yes please

haughty dust
#

(react to the message then)

haughty dust
main cliff
#

Asking because I'm genuinely not sure - does Using... captain Morgan's mean the achohol or a houserule I'm unfamiliar with? (´･ω･`)?

haughty dust
#

Captains Morgan's rule is in reference to how the guy on the bottle is standing with a leg up on a barrel. Basically if you're a size 2+ character you may end your turn on terrain smaller than yourself

#

And the way I personally rule it is your height is the rough average of the elevation of the tiles you occupy. And you may occupy terrain equal to or smaller than half your size

haughty dust
#

Me: "you've finished the main content of the talent rework. You can now walk on some other hobby tasks you have like painting those minis for Sunday"

Also me: "so what about house guard... Or pankrati even"

fading flax
#

pankrati

haughty dust
#

I have ideas, I'll float them around but I refuse to implement them until I've tested a satisfying amount of the CRB talents

fading flax
#

more than fair

haughty dust
#

One of the neat things about stuff like pankrati... Is

#

Duelist: Pankrati

#

I'm also floating the idea of house guard just straight up blocking hostile LOS

normal dirge
#

i already know what im playing

#

drone screen hydra

#

(yes i know it was nerfed)

#

i still think its powerful

#

i can no longer sacrifice my son to the demo but its still good looking

torpid fern
#

Drone commander looks really fun to play with

haughty dust
#

Oh shit thanks for reminding me again about bind drone

#

Simply by talking about drone commander I remembered

torpid fern
#

The menacing and intimidating hive drone

normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Words as written, level 3 bind drone can bind a razor swarm. Which as not a character has no counter play

normal dirge
#

the slop is unimaginable

haughty dust
#

"Make a build treated as if you were playing in a campaign and it's expected to play as if in a campaign as well."

normal dirge
#

ah yeah true

#

id still play a drone hydra in a campaign but more seriously

haughty dust
#

So I've granted flavour text for all the integrated systems

#

Kenzie Wainright took a peak at her console. Reactor levels critical. It was a typical outcome for running her mech as hot as she usually does. A group of more Hell's hounds pirates were rounding the corner granting her suppressing fire. If she wanted to keep the invisibility up she needed to take care of her reactor but did not have time for a full reactor flush, but she's ran this mech enough to know that she can make her heat issues someone else's problem.
Fuel rod gun

#

Cheekily putting one of my PCs who ran nuccav into it :3

normal dirge
#

igf spotted

fading flax
haughty dust
#

Decided to add a small bit to grease monkey 2. It isn't the best option so I don't see it as enough of a power boost to be significant but ties level 2 to be more in line with the others

image.png
torpid fern
normal dirge
#

1 slopillion marks

haughty dust
normal dirge
haughty dust
#

Yep

river ridge
#

Alright, I'm the one joining and here are the major bits of confusion for me:

Juggernaut
I like the new Juggernaut a lot, but rank 2 and 3 together are confusing. rank 2 wants you to be stopped by obstructions to push them, while level 3 causes you to pass through them. I don't know whether you're supposed to be able to choose on a case by case basis or pass through everything.

Drone Commander - Flock
Is Guide the flock intended to only let you bind one drone to one character at a time? Seems like it from the text but it seems like the ability that could be interesting to let you put on multiple targets.

Drone commander - Legion
Is expendable's quick action redeploy meant to redeploy all of your drones at once? Or does it just let you redeploy drones you normally can't like turrets? Is Maneuverable meant to restore charges for drones that were used but never took damage? That seems quite strong and I could see this being meant as both taking no damage and never being used.

Hacker - Backdoor Intrusion
Is Root Access supposed to also trigger the trojan invade like if it expires at the end of their turn? I'm assuming it is but i just wanted to check.

#

Siege Specialist - Bunker Buster
The Big Shot is cool but the wording is very confusing. Is this meant to let you use Jackhammer Rounds for free on different targets in range of the weapon? Or is this only usable on weapons with an area template, targeting individual pieces of terrain in the template? If it's the latter, this isn't usable on the majority of cannons in the game since over half don't have an area surprisingly (11 out of 17).

Siege Specialist - Concussive Blast
When you delay the attack, is it meant to only be against 1 target within an attack or the entire weapon, such as with area templates? And if it's a single target does it delay the entire area or only the attack on that one mech? From level 3 it seems like it affects the entire area, but level 1 says "when you attack a target" singular.

Stormbringer - Laws of Motion
Is level 2 supposed to include the Thunderous Blast knockback in the bit that gets halved? I assume so but it says it inflicts no knockback on the target.

haughty dust
#

Juggernaut: level 3 states "may" pass through smaller or equal sized targets or the equivalent. You can choose to get blocked triggering the ram

Drone commander: uuuh good question. Rn it's unlimited but let's see how that works in play

Hacker: Consuming trona is intended to have the Trojan expire, triggering the Trojan

Siege specialist bunker: If I skirmish a piece of terrain with a singular attack weapon such as a HMG it can explode the terrain. If I use an AOE it can explode the terrain and hit someone else. This probably does need a change but level 2 improves it... Level 1 might just feel like it sucks for regular non aoe weapons so I need to think of alternatives (I desperately don't want to just make it "another action" that the book provides that doesn't actually use your cannon)

Concussive blast: entire weapon. If I have a single target weapon, I track the selected target as they move as long as they remain a valid target. If I have an AOE attack I slap the template targeting a spot on the floor and it can't move because the floor can't move. Wording isn't the most clear and needs to be better but rn it's the best I can think of. It's not finalised.

Stormbringer: can you please repeat the question I don't think I follow

#

But yeah that's for asking these, I can definitely clean up some definitions

#

Thanks for the write up

#

Honestly, I'm glad that over the course of 44 talents you could only find 6 points of confusion lmao

#

Next patch I'm adding an FAQ

river ridge
#

I have some potential balance and QoL concerns too but I'll wait until we actually see it in action. Still very airtight rules language wise IMO and that's a hard feat to pull off

haughty dust
#

Cos I'm curious, things over or under powered?

river ridge
#

A mix. I can link the full document but you said you didn't want much mechanical stuff for now

haughty dust
#

I'm curious about balance concerns

#

Even if they do need testing

river ridge
#

To clarify, I'm also being a bit of a stickler and rules-lawyery about the points of confusion for the sake of trying to find misinterpretations you could arrive at. I think for most of them the intent is pretty clear

#

As far as Stormbringer goes, I think I may have been getting too pedantic there as well as just missing specifics of the wording. I think it's fine

#

The most glaring mechanical outlier for me is Heavyweight Brawler feeling super weak. Compared to both its alternative and other Talent options, I think it's just lacking sauce on top of pigeonholing you into taking the same full action on a lot of your turns. That's more a problem of the source material you had to work with though.

#

Anyway, I'd definitely love to discuss it more but I need to be responsible and sleep. GN!

haughty dust
#

Good night, it's the morning here!!!

#

So I don't think I see brawler as weak as you do. But... White room, see it in play

haughty dust
#

Skirmisher: yeah I'm not to set either. But might be a hot take but I doubt skirmisher 2 CRB is ever gonna see the light of day here. I really don't like that talent. Skirmisher is meant to make it less punishing to put yourselves into threat and overwatch of hostiles so you get punished by it less. Granting a talent to help dodge builds. It might just be ass however

Tactician: broadly agree tbh. See it in play

Drone commander Legion: it's meant to only redeploy one drone. I'll clarify that

Duelist: duelist is meant to be flavoured after duels. If it's too limiting that's a nice boost to it that could be fun. I'll take a note

Duelist spear wall: so, compared to bonded and spotter adjacency with any ally feels more achievable... But it still has the adjacency problem. I have some ideas, I wanna see it in play

Cleaving strikes: unfortunately I had a problem with executioner so yeah I know it's more limiting but that's kinda the point 🥲 (see it in play)

Gunslinger standoff: end of the day it's a defensive tool that punishes enemies using your aux ranged if they attack you. Yes it's not as fun because you're not using your tools however if enemies aren't attacking you. Congrats they aren't attacking you. It's likely you're not taking much damage which is cool

Heavy gunner: please I want to be proven that it is/isn't op if it includes sheavies. I've heard peeps say it sounds super powerful and it sounds OK and I am so curious what it is I have no clue

#

Otherwise, love the doc. Tysm

normal dirge
#

I am so tempted to try some kind of superheavy heavy gunner thing now just out of sheer curiosity can I prove myself wrong on how it feels

#

its just. self heat :(

#

i need to go through them and find one that has a tenable amount of self heat because im not making fuckass anninex heavy gunner

river ridge
#

Oh right, I wasn't considering the fact that basically every Superheavy has a pacer on it which does make HG3 significantly worse. That might be totally fine then

obtuse onyx
#

Question: what does the Grease Monkey rework actually… change?

#

Another question: any reason Jug 2 axed the accuracy bonus Jug 1 normally imparts?

#

Ooh I like the NucCav 2 change- auto AP makes a lot of sense actually. Any reason NucCav 1 doesn’t work on Techs anymore tho?

subtle sapphire
#

any reason NucCav 1 should've worked on Techs in the first place lol

obtuse onyx
#

I suppose to cut down on Heat Gunning, fair nuff

normal dirge
#

i swear they explained why that was changed somewhere but i cannot find it for the life of me now

haughty dust
obtuse onyx
#

I could see someone arguing NucCav 2 would be bad because a lot of NucCav weapons are already AP, but it buffs the Tokugawa and Manticore weapons significantly so like close enough

haughty dust
#

It has reliable 2 too

#

Ap and reliable 2

#

So like, if a weapon is already reliable it gains ap, if it's ap it gains reliable. If it's neither it gains both

obtuse onyx
#

Cat Pistol can finally have something

obtuse onyx
haughty dust
#

Exactly

#

But it's the first attack only

#

And yeah it's powerful but I'd argue not as much as 1d6 bonus damage

subtle sapphire
#

raising floor instead of raising ceiling is good

river ridge
haughty dust
haughty dust
#

Like, long story short because I hate myself for having silly standards

obtuse onyx
# haughty dust This

I… am not reading it in the latest copy of the Google Drive PDF? Am I reading an outdated version?

#

Also, small question: if you’re gonna be reworking GM 2 to keep its existing stabilize benefit. And the only condition it doesn’t clear is Stunned. Which stops you from stabilizing in the first place anyway…

Would it be unreasonable to suggest changing it so it just clears “all conditions” for the purposes of simplification + making it more 3rd party compatible? Or is that not within the scope of the project?

haughty dust
haughty dust
#

Like yeah that just makes things easier

#

Like... Good luck stabilising if you're stunned RAW

#

And if using stuff like the aid action then like... Sick that's just cool

obtuse onyx
#

Even if you are stunned, like just use the “clear one condition” thing

obtuse onyx
haughty dust
#

Like...

obtuse onyx
#

And by “that” I mean the older version you shared

haughty dust
#

What older version?

obtuse onyx
#

The one that allows you to trigger GM 1 on a stabilize

haughty dust
#

Oh heah

#

That's for V0.2.0

obtuse onyx
#

Gotcha

haughty dust
#

It's uuh, a change™

#

This is my thoughts on grease monkey

#

I was gonna type up again but like... I've already done jt

dire umbra
#

Alright, that's me all caught up

#

See, it only took one day I don't see what I was afraid of (1190+ messages is a lot, that's what)

spiral ore
#

Also love what's going on here with the two talents for one "thing"

#

My favorite bit

normal dirge
dire umbra
#

Yeah sorry

obtuse onyx
haughty dust
#

Would it be a better idea to rename the mutually exclusive talents to be acronyms instead of their full name... Comp/con formatting with long names ain't fun

spiral ore
spiral ore
#

I think NuCav should get two seeing how many players run dz and heat builds

#

Would help to diversify exactly what dz does apart from "slightly more damage"

#

If not is ok but would be cul

#

:)

haughty dust
#

Sorry but the project is at a point where new features aren't gonna be added, until I move onto other 1st party content

obtuse onyx
#

IMO I feel like that’d be easier- the information isn’t so urgent that it needs to be in the name imo

normal dirge
spiral ore
#

I still love it

dire umbra
#

So, I have many thougths, but the main ones are :
Gunsliner-Standoff 2 : "Fast Shot" sounds immesurably lame to me, would you consider calling it "Quickdraw" instead ?
Gunsliner-Standoff 3 : I think the name would work better as "It's probably 12 O'clock somewhere"
Hacker-Backdoor intrusion : when you apply a trojan "instead of the normal effects" is both the heat and the invade option, right ?
Hacker-Backdoor intrusion 2 : Is there supposed to be a "whichever comes first" at the end of it ?
HG-Decimation : "all effects [...] may be ignored for targets [...]" Okay. I choose to not ignore them then. (Consider rewording as "characters that are [conditions of exclusion] ignore all effects of the mark")
SB-Laws : consider rewording all of your "grants" and "becomes knockback X" as "gains Knockback X" for consistency and clarity of stacking.
WA-Loaded : one of the perks of reading everything is one day is I remeber you wanting to tweak rank 1, which I don't see on the doc. Did you change your mind or just forgor ?

normal dirge
#

also yeah I asked about Backdoor intrusion 2 too in the doc but idk if they got around to it yet

dire umbra
#

Might also suggest "Locked and Loaded" for WA if that's not too many characters

#

Other than that, thanks for doing my Ace rep jusitice 🙏

#

Just kinda wondering why Supersonic doesn't also ignore reactions, but that's not really an issue.

haughty dust
normal dirge
#

yeah no i am in no way rushing you there's a lot

haughty dust
#

I've been busy today

#

Doing not much so I don't know how but it's just one of "those days™"

normal dirge
#

please take your time

#

i dont want you to get burned out now

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Yeah that's 3 peeps who have similar thoughts on brawler heavyweight so I'm gonna have to overhaul it

#

Rank 1: identical
Rank 2: same damage, give it knockback 2 (same as CRB) grapple or ram for free before the improv attack
Level 3: lower knockout die to max 3, people's elbow will become 1/scene per person. On success on save, keep knockout die on 1. On failure reset to 3

torpid fern
#

I like these changes a lot, moving the grapple/ram before the improv makes a lot of sense for rank 1 and full action cost.
with the on failure reset to 3 isnt that just dont reset it

haughty dust
#

Wait

#

Does it start low and go up or start high and go down?

torpid fern
#

start at 1

haughty dust
#

Failure is the good option so it resets. Success is the bad option so it stays as is

#

Wait I need to check if all my die are consistent

torpid fern
#

RIGHT! im with it im just a fool

normal dirge
#

all the dice count down iirc

#

except for the ones where you gain dice like Duelist

haughty dust
#

And gunslinger standoff which ticks up and gains passive buffs

normal dirge
#

yeah that one's different and i assumed intentionally

haughty dust
#

Yeah the rest of them feel like a meter you want to deplete whereas standoff is like, when you are on fire in overwatch or something

normal dirge
#

precisely

#

big number good

#

vs.

#

count down to destruction

dire umbra
haughty dust
#

Yeah

torpid fern
#

yeahh same I find it not so bad because at least you do have the flexibility of it being a QA instead but it feels rank 2 would rarely come up

haughty dust
#

My idea for quick hands is to make it a bit above an uninvested main weapon in strength, considering anyone can have it, it can't break and it isn't a skirmish but yeah. Dedicating your whole turn to improvised attacks is heavy weights job

#

I don't want the effects I chose to be able to happen on 1 QA. They're slightly above curve but not good enough for 2 QAs

#

It's staying as is for now... Only because my brains empty. I'll ruminate on level 2

#

I don't want it to be "not duelist"

#

How frequently do people build around a talent... And how frequently do people fit talents into a build...

#

With a ranged weapon talent you pick a weapon and choose the talent to support it

#

When you have a talent that buffs something you already had however, it becomes more complicated. At what point is something like brawler too good if I can just equip it and say sod the systems (in the extreme)

#

Weird thoughts with Al

dire umbra
#

Like, really good ideas in there, I wanna stress that part

#

I just think we could push it just that little bit more to a better spot overall

haughty dust
#

Ofc

#

It's not gonna be perfect off the bat

dire umbra
#

Honestly, how much to find a way to adjust current rank3 into a rank 2 effect and make current rank2 into rank 3 that applies if both the Improvised attack and the free attack target the same character and hit ?

#

Just throwing ideas out

haughty dust
#

Duelist 3 is so good it over shadows the rest of the talent IMO

#

I've shifted it to improvised attacks. I don't know if that means people will just do the same builds they did before but just with punches instead of a chainaxe

#

I'm not too confident on moving level 3 to 2... It seems quite good

#

But I actually have no clue if it is or not...

dire umbra
#

I didn't mean "swap them with no changes", 'cause I think that'd be a bit too much for just two ranks, but finding some way to transform rank 3 to make it fit it's new rank

#

No clue how to do that though

haughty dust
#

Yeah...

#

Rn any suggestions or ideas are gonna ricochet off my smooth brain until I put it back into the microwave to get the wrinkles back

dire umbra
#

Mainly just a thought I had in case it inspired you in some way shape or form

dire umbra
#

I had a thought of like "...but what if... critfish improvised attack talent..." but that's the goblin speaking

#

You already gave me peak with that 24 morbilion bullets auxspam talent, I don't need you to indulge that creature any more

haughty dust
#

Keep level 1 and 3 the same, make level 2 "forfeit the damage for one of these control effects"

#

Keep the duplicate action removal because it's funny

#

They basically become punch invade options for some neat control