THE SILKSONG IS REAL

[green bone]

it refuses to be mapped idk

[light star]

that's

wild

[south marten]

I guess you need to defeat the boss to map it???

[light star]

that would make sense actually

[rose granite]

It is a mirage, a shimmer in the distance, a phantom upon the senses.

[south marten]

[rose granite]

Your violence can disperse the wraiths which haunt these halls with the truth, but they shall return whether you shield your eyes from their light or not!

[haughty zodiac]

You know, I've noticed a lot of mods for changing the color of Hornet's cloak, and yet there's not a single one for a pollip purple one to match her tools with the pollip pouch equipped.

[hot mango]

Can’t forget || Multibinder||

Anyway for the best version of that item, you do need ||double jump.|| I say that because I think you can get into ||Sands|| without that upgrade

[dreamy scarab]

I'm not sure if you can, but I didn't. I'm sure someone can do this without it, but I definitely couldn't 😅

there are a couple of transitions that I'm not sure are possible without ||clinging to one side of a wall, dashing under it, and double jumping back onto the other side||

[hot mango]

What I’m getting is ||we finally have good representation of fat nonbinary people (this is a joke but we really are lacking those so if Lugoli is what we have then I mean I’ll take it)||

Penultimate end of act 3 spoilers ||what gets me is Hornet writing about how dumb the Wingmoulds are and how she hates her dad. Ya know. The enemy that only appears in the red memory. An enemy that only appears in a dream realm. In Hallownest.||

||To be fair HK is not absent of those areas, and sometimes side areas that are just kinda there are important in Metroidvanias to just see new angles on the world. For example, The Hive||

The problem is Architect can be kinda difficult for platforming

[brave flower]

mount fay has no pogos

[hot mango]

He was the last act 2 boss I did. That advice did not apply to me.

||I didn’t know Wisp Thicket existed at the time nor that I could access max Needle but that’s besides the point.||

[elfin ravine]

having finished the game, I still find Bilehaven probably the most aggravating area in the game

[dreamy scarab]

seriously. I like the moveset, indepedent of its gimmick, but I really struggle with the pogoing coming off reaper

[rose granite]

Still need to see when the other person I'm playing with is free so I can finish the last 5% of the game together

[modern fossil]

Architects delay for the pogo combined with the tiny hitbox makes it painful for platforming

[rose granite]

Somehow one of the last things I have to do is killing Gromlings of all things

[rose granite]

Oh yeah it's a rough one for that.

[south marten]

Holy SHIT

This game's Salubra's Blessing analogue is so much better

[elfin ravine]

Definitely much more pleasant sound wise 😛

Also a lot easier to get I'd say

[formal zenith]

whyyyyy on earth can you destroy the mount fay heat lamps
what purpose could this possibly serve

[dreamy scarab]

Smash the state

They respawn if you go through a door, iirc

[formal zenith]

yeah but consider
what if they were indestructible

[inland wave]

also made me feel emotions, it did

[south marten]

Yooo

You can poshanka

[formal zenith]

finally got to the summit
i think grip and weavelight are practically required to make this area actually feel possible

[south marten]

Ehhhh

I mean yeah, you need Cling Grip to even be able to reach it

[green bone]

Mock you for your reckless needle swinging

(More seriously there are || enemies that can destroy them || as part of thr intended diff fighting them)

[elfin ravine]

they mean Ascender's Grasp

[proud cobalt]

The silly wall knife.

[rose granite]

...I had no idea.

Only way I've seen them destroyed is by your own and.

[elfin ravine]

yeah I didn't notice myself either, until I saw it happen to a friend yesterday

[rose granite]

I genuinely assumed it was just some random thing to punish mistiming your harpoon

[elfin ravine]

I personally didn't buy Ascender's for basically the whole game, just never felt high prio enough

didn't feel like I was super missing it either though

[proud cobalt]

I saw someone damage one, but I did not know there were ||enemies|| that did that.

[rose granite]

It was funnily enough one of my higher priority purchases, due to ease of platforming, but you can do well enough without it..

It's mainly really nice for a few precision wall jumps found throughout the game.

[proud cobalt]

My friend didn’t think it was necessary but purchased it anyway and now ||it’s their nigh permanent extra yellow.||

[elfin ravine]

I had compass, magnetite, and dice for basically the whole game

[rose granite]

Mm, I'm cheating with compass and magnetite on with mods, but honestly I've been fine with that.

Largely just been some nice quality of life.

[proud cobalt]

They only just got dice.

So haven’t really played with it.

They also got Witch Crest with a little help.

||Y’all think Greyroot is what happens when the parasite succeeds?||

[elfin ravine]

something like that probably

[green bone]

Act 3 || I think Pale Nails are my fav Silk Skill just on aesthethics alone ||

[elfin ravine]

it's also very good

which is always a great combination

[green bone]

that seems very likely yeah

[proud cobalt]

I wanna call them a Witch too.

[vagrant spruce]

||have you seen how they look with volt filament on? it's sick||

[rose granite]

Yeah, my interpretation of them is that they're ||potentially a higher being or pursuant of it, and thus in classic fashion crave the ascension of their child.||

[green bone]

I dont think I found it, only || Volt Vessels||

[rose granite]

Not a trait unique to those folk admittedly, but recurrent there.

[elfin ravine]

my theory on Grey Root is ||that it's something similar to the White Lady, seeing as they are both weird plant beings ||

[vagrant spruce]

||they're in totally different areas, though if you think about the part of memoriam where volt vessels are based on & where it looks like, you migth find a clue - definitely worth trying to track down though :)||

[proud cobalt]

||White Lady?||

[hoary tulip]

from Hollow Knight

[rose granite]

Yeah same

[proud cobalt]

I know who it is.

[proud cobalt]

Got it.

[elfin ravine]

||and White Lady IIRC also mentioned she had to restrain her desire to propagate herself ||

[rose granite]

I think that this is a more general instinct amongst ||higher beings, since we've now seen Silk, Grimm, White Lady, arguably Pale King, and so on care about not only having offspring but also to commune with others.||

[elfin ravine]

Do I seem prisoner here? If so, it's not by any choice but my own. These bindings about me, I've chosen to erect.
There is some shame I feel from my own part in the deed and this method guarantees it cease.
I still feel that urge you see. I always will. A voracious desire to spread seeds upon the land, to propagate myself, to breed.

[rose granite]

||Whether it is through a desire to rule, to breed, or to be remembered, higher beings do seem to not want to be alone in a sense.||

[green bone]

i cant believe it's Diegetic ™

[rose granite]

This tension between a primal urge and more conscious thought is also a recurring element with Hornet.

[proud cobalt]

Indeed.

[vagrant spruce]

||maybe the real phantom of the opera was the phantom in the back playing opera music we met along the way||

[green bone]

Ok that was weirdly easy but fun

reminds me of Hornet 1 from the prequel

[elfin ravine]

well it is a fight you are supposed to do around the end of act 1

[green bone]

omfg

yeah that explains it

[modern fossil]

When I did that boss all I could think was "I'm surprised there isn't a parry skill in this game" ||then I beat it lol||

[proud cobalt]

Heh.

Technically Parry is an existing tech/mechanic and ||Cross Stitch|| is a skill but you already specified skill so it’s fine.

[green bone]

Act 3 ||Ok that's atleast 2 Quests of 2 friendly NPCs requesting a duel to the death and Hornet going "what the fuck dude? I'm not doing that go live.||

[south marten]

Yeah it's the alternate entry to Act 2 instead of ||Last Judge||

[south marten]

Despite how fucked everything is in Act 3, Horney remains a beacon of hope in dark times

Hornet

Whatever

[elfin ravine]

||the Pinstress one especially is kinda funny, because she just goes "well, now I feel kinda silly for doing the whole to the death bit. But you're right, I probably shouldn't die for no reason" ||

[rose granite]

||I wonder where she goes after the duel, because I expected to find her defending some place but haven't yet.||

[autumn kettle]

no, i think silksong signposts directions, but i think it does this well, and not excessively

[severe swift]

The amount of bosses with an arena leading up to them is actually infuriating.

Let me fight the boss! Please!

[rose granite]

At that point I suppose I'm still just going to disagree then on a few select cases and not have much more to say.

[brave flower]

but the arenas frequrntly have benches behind them!

[autumn kettle]

fair enough

[severe swift]

It doesnt really matter to me, it's just needless timewasting to get to the actual bit thats interesting

[brave flower]

the arenas are Part Of The Game

they are Part Of Exploration

thus they are not "timewasting"

[green bone]

A lot of the Arenas are essentially Phase 1 of the boss

[severe swift]

I just find it "Not Very Fun"

[rose granite]

But yeah, can break down the exact instances of signposting I am thinking of, where they lead to flow, and what my own preference would have been, if need be. It's not a difficult thing to do.

[rose granite]

It does take a bit to realise just how frequent they'll be, but they're largely fine yeah. If there's any critique there I suppose it's more how many of them are in flat rooms, but that's more a consequence of silksong enemies not doing super well with complex room geometry.

They do get much easier with damage upgrades admittedly, moreso than most bosses.

[severe swift]

I dont find them difficult, its just a waste of time.

It's not challenging, its not interesting. There's nothing to learn. It's just there to add a few more hours to your playtime.

[rose granite]

Agree to disagree on that one then

I found them fun overall. A few ones were rough, but there's only one I didn't like and that was more a consequence of other factors.

[hoary tulip]

I honestly found them very cool for the most part in that most of them prime you for the boss and make you learn the movement you should be doing

[dreamy scarab]

I just wish the arena fights dropped shell shards, even at a reduced rate. I haven't run into an arena fight that's blocked me in a while, but e.g. Hunter's Reach was really suffering when my best option for dealing with flying enemies was throwing out tons of tools

[elfin ravine]

enemies in arenas not dropping anything just feels bad

[rose granite]

That part did feel finicky yeah.

I understand the logic of them not wanting people to use a fight to farm or something, though at that point I wonder what the great harm with that would've been?

[elfin ravine]

I've gotten pretty negative on shards

they don't really feel like they do anything, except maybe sometimes make you farm so you don't have to deal with it

[rose granite]

Mm, I'll admit I'm fine with them after installing a mod that made 2x the amount drop. That and the always compass/magnet are my only mods, all three for QoL, and it's been nice.

But at that point it's not really a defense of the system ;p.

[rose granite]

It's the old question of implementing something in the design to try to get people to go elsewhere if they run into a wall.

Though understanding the intention doesn't equal agreeing with it

[green bone]

there's also a lot of stuff implemented to get people NOT to go elsewhere if they run into a wall

[elfin ravine]

my counterpoint to that is mainly that if you go tool heavy it doesn't even take you that long to run out, and also actually farming shards back takes quite a while unless you specifically just go farm shard/rosaries to buy shards

with expensive tools, like the beetles, you can pretty easily spend upwards of a hundred shards per attempt

[rose granite]

Yeah, that's what got me to install the aforementioned mods so with you there.

[elfin ravine]

it's just like blood vials/bullets in BB, or emblems in Sekiro again

[rose granite]

Bloodborne is the obvious comparison, but the difference there is that these materials could be used immediately for combat, which whilst still an annoyance during boss fights meant they were there to incentivise pushing your luck.

[elfin ravine]

meaningless when you're doing well, punishing you more when you're struggling

[safe yew]

yeah i don't think the shell shard system would be missed if it was removed

[rose granite]

Okay maybe a bold comparison, but I think Silk itself (and Soul in Hollow Knight) was an improvement upon the blood vial system in Bloodborne as a means to get people to push their luck.

Whilst shards end up in a weird spot because you need to go back to a bench to regain uses ||unless you're using Architect ofc||.

[elfin ravine]

silk is definitely better than vials, sure

but tools like bullets are both already limited between rests anyway

[wanton bone]

Yeah. I’m not even convinced they’re a great balancing tool on architect.

[dreamy scarab]

I think in principle shards are interesting to me, because they add another layer to Hornet being a creepy-cool hunter crafting her own supplies. but the economy is really wonky, especially with architect

[elfin ravine]

I feel like the silk cost is still the greater limiter on Archi

[rose granite]

If you're abusing tools on architects to the extent that you're having to refill, you're speedrunning a boss I feel yeah.

[elfin ravine]

especially when you can just farm an arbitrary amount of shard bundles you can crack at any time

[rose granite]

And at that point silk is the bigger limiter..

Not a ton that can stand up against 400-800+ shards in this game.

[green bone]

current mood \

[rose granite]

Mm, again they've felt fine to me with 2x drops and magnet for the shards, but at that point it's a completely different system from base.

And I'm not sure it's something that I'd miss if it were gone.

[wanton bone]

Thematically as something Hornet collects, it’s neat.

[rose granite]

Give us shards but she just banks them at home until her home eventually collapses from their collective weight.

[formal zenith]

how do you deal with the two enemies in the platforming room at the very top of high halls

[elfin ravine]

if I replay the game, I'll probably just use the mod that removes shard costs from tools

[wanton bone]

I haven’t run into issues with Shard economy myself since I’m bad at using tools.

[formal zenith]

it just seems impossible to fight and move between the clawline rings at the same time

[rose granite]

Hm, if it's the section I'm thinking of can you run past them?

Been a bit so might need to refresh myself, but think that's how I ended up dealing with most of them.

[formal zenith]

how do you run past them when you're trying to climb

[rose granite]

Might be a different bit than I'm thinking of, do you have a screenshot?

[formal zenith]

the top area here

[autumn kettle]

thread storm

[wanton bone]

May not be feasible there, but I often agro enemies and then drop down to a safer place to kill them.

[inland wave]

Poison Boomerang and patience

[safe yew]

also consider clawlining the enemies

[autumn kettle]

or wings pogos + clawline

[safe yew]

and pogo yea

[autumn kettle]

or curvesickles

or cogflies

[formal zenith]

oh, thread storm makes sense

[autumn kettle]

or uhh cross stitch

[inland wave]

It is a rude little platforming bit though

[rose granite]

Here I'm guessing?

[autumn kettle]

spells, tools, and clawline

[rose granite]

Yeah just spam cogflies

[formal zenith]

actually i think i will just grab cogflies

[inland wave]

telling me these goobers can parry

[autumn kettle]

i used none of the above and just pogospammed them

[safe yew]

yeah, "go my scarabs" is a good approach here

[wanton bone]

Oh that looks like prime “hey fuckers, come on down to this nice patch of ground 30 feet down” area.

[autumn kettle]

but harpoon or thread storm would've made my life easier

[rose granite]

That is the easy solution. Get some damage upgrades for tools if you can as well.

[autumn kettle]

oh yeah or taunt

taunt would also work

[rose granite]

It's fairly easy with experience, but I'm assuming when frustrated the simplest solution is better.

And that's either cogflies or kiting them I'd reckon.

[formal zenith]

i tried doing that multiple times and they wouldn't get any lower than the first clawline wheel

[hoary tulip]

You have to taunt

They’re programmed to not leave that zone otherwise

[autumn kettle]

yeah i was just offering "wanderer pogo was my crutch"

[hoary tulip]

“How do you know that”
Guess :/

[autumn kettle]

lmao

[elfin ravine]

I think I just scrambled my way past them further up

[rose granite]

Even if you don't get them too low, you can still separate them which should make it easier.

[autumn kettle]

also reasonable

[hoary tulip]

God bless Silksong for saying “nah put that clown wig back on”

[rose granite]

But again the hard counter to most flying enemies in this game is cogflies.

[hoary tulip]

After 6 years of no game and clown makeup, now I have game and clown makeup because this shit made me look like Boo Boo The Fool so many times

[brave flower]

silksong takes deepnest's bag of bozo's funny clown pranks and spreads them out over the whole game

and puts them in the funniest spots

[hoary tulip]

I remember getting to the point of looking at a bench and going

“So”

“Is this a trap, or is this a trap”

[autumn kettle]

"we can do this the easy way or the hornet way"

[hoary tulip]

I have to imagine Hornet doing what I did in universe

Like

Examining every wall and angle to make SURE this isn’t a jape

Sitting down

||Hearing the ground crack underneath||

And going “yeah okay, whatever”

“This might as well be happening”

[brave flower]

hornet is such a good character tbh

[autumn kettle]

three separate gigaslaps...

it's so fucking funny

[elfin ravine]

wait what's the third one?

I only got Grindle and Nuu

[autumn kettle]

yarnaby

[elfin ravine]

ah, right

[proud cobalt]

What kind of reskin mods we gonna get here I wonder. Definitely gonna get Big Vessel like we got Smol Hornet.

[elfin ravine]

tall vessel feels cursed in some way

[south marten]

https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/hkwiki/images/8/88/Armoured_Vessel.png

[proud cobalt]

Correct.

Every other vessel died young.

[sinful stirrup]

I kinda want to get off reaper main, but the sprint into down air is too cool u.u

[south marten]

Embrace Hunter, the best damage-dealer in the game

[sinful stirrup]

Also: holy shit, hunter feels so much better with the dual senses dpad

I started playing on switch2 with a pro controller

And that was like, fine

But playing on the da5 is so nice

Hunter pogo is a lot easier?

Tried hunter on ||lace 2||, and i did miss the width of reapers aerial down attack

[south marten]

No that's fair

But Hunter deals the most damage in the game if you can get that focus bar up

[sinful stirrup]

Iff

Yeah

I'm not that good xD

[south marten]

It's like Hornet says in Hollow Knight: git gud /lh

[rose granite]

Yeah can imagine, I've been using an Xbox 360 controller out of pure stubbornness, but the movement in the game is built for the d-pad.

[sinful stirrup]

Hunter did get me through that boss fight tho!

I needed to be patient

[south marten]

Currently getting my skull turned inside out by ||Karmelita||

[rose granite]

Main recommendation I have is to not force yourself too hard on using Hunter for platforming.

[south marten]

Life sucks, etc etc

Oh yeah for sure, I use either Reaper or Wanderer for platforming, I only use Hunter for actually fighting

[sinful stirrup]

Opposite lesson of sword saint isshin to me: isshin teaches you to not hesitate, ||lace 2|| teaches you not to rush.

[rose granite]

Mm, same which did mean reaper and wanderer naturally ended up being more comfortable.

[sinful stirrup]

Not that patience is hesitation, both are trying to get you to act at the correct moment

[rose granite]

Think next playthrough I'll switch my sprint and attack buttons for the sake of easier aerial and charge attacks.

[sinful stirrup]

I'm banging my head against groal atm

[rose granite]

Got the ||closer bench||?

[sinful stirrup]

Well, not right now, but its my progress point

Yes

Thank god

[rose granite]

Ah, if so that's your main, easily accessible way to make it easier. Guessing you've also already been to Bellhome and all that too.

[autumn kettle]

what's your current problem with him?

[rose granite]

There are ways to cheese the fight, but it can be a toughie.

[sinful stirrup]

Putting damage on him while minimizing vulnerability

[tall night]

Getting eaten with wanderers crest at least you gain more soul striking from inside than you lose from the attack is funny

[sinful stirrup]

He's just big and floaty and the arena is pretty hostile

[autumn kettle]

it do be

[rose granite]

It's also really good for paries

[autumn kettle]

do you have wreath?

[sinful stirrup]

Yeah

[rose granite]

If you're fine with it, his attacks can't really hit the water that well I believe.

[south marten]

Jump in the goo, throw bombs at him when he succs, throw flies when you run out, and then hit him for the last couple hits of damage when you run out entirely

[sinful stirrup]

Atm I'm just trying to pogo on him with wanderer but hes floaty, and I'm out of shards xD

[autumn kettle]

clawline is also very good at maneuvering around him

and his arena

[south marten]

His attacks straight-up can't hit the bottom right of the arena in the water

[sinful stirrup]

Yeah clawline has been helpful

[rose granite]

That's the more fun approach, but the safer one is basically just camping the waters.

[sinful stirrup]

Maybe I need to get another full pack of shards

[rose granite]

Many such cases.

[sinful stirrup]

And architect him to death

[autumn kettle]

"getting comfortable with clawline" is like the solution to 50-60% of act2-3 bosses imo

[sinful stirrup]

He's big enough to get the big drill

[tall night]

Like you take 2 from the munch but you make a whole bar striking from inside with like 6 hits from wander

[rose granite]

Not to be conflated with "huh, a ranged tool kills this guy quick" which is 80% of bosses. I love my lil tools.

It has lead to some very funny realisations

[sinful stirrup]

Curveclaw mvp

[tall night]

Im such a tool user I'll have to try no tools at some point but it won't be right now lol

[sinful stirrup]

Mvt?

[rose granite]

It's a fun thing to do for a second run of the game..

[south marten]

I was having so much trouble with ||Lost Garmond|| until I just fucking shot him to death with a gun

Well, two guns, I ran out of ammo for one

[rose granite]

Oh I have the perfect thing for this

[autumn kettle]

i should probably try using tools on bosses

i will probably take a lot less time on the final boss with them

[rose granite]

A tale in two pictures.

||Turns out Garmond doesn't really have good knockback immunity nor jumps much, meaning that the saw just knocks him back into the wall and kills him.||

[south marten]

Wait, one saw?

[rose granite]

Not one, but a few

[south marten]

Ah

[rose granite]

I really didn't keep count

[south marten]

Yeah I used roasry cannon to do most of my damage

[autumn kettle]

okay ngl i did not realize he was supposed to be a real boss

[south marten]

Since, y'know, 80 rosaries is nothing

[rose granite]

||They died off screen||

[proud cobalt]

My friend went from not using tools much on bosses in the beginning to using tools on bosses pretty frequently and only occasionally forgetting about them.

[rose granite]

More of a miniboss, but yes.

[autumn kettle]

i was like "wow, that was a basic elite enemy, but the story beat was neat"

they only had like one attack

two?

[proud cobalt]

I see Sting Shards and Tacks a lot from them.

[autumn kettle]

I came there so late

[rose granite]

Though we should prolly keep this in spoilers for most.

[rose granite]

Same, same

[autumn kettle]

much like ||the unraveled||, i did not go there at the intended point for the intended difficulty and just beat them to death with no fanfare

[south marten]

I went from not using tools to using them a lot to realising that trying to plan around tools was way too difficult and just beating the enemies to death with my bare hands was the simplest solution

[rose granite]

That boss is how I learned that if you end a boss phase before their roar ends, there's no music

[autumn kettle]

LOL

go, your buzzsaws?

[rose granite]

Nah, simple tacks

[autumn kettle]

makes sense

[rose granite]

Though my favourite bug so far is that it seems like if a boss jumps inside of too tight a quarter, they get stuck.

[south marten]

My current loadout is Hunter with Threadstorm, Filament, Dice, Bell, and Injector

[sinful stirrup]

Oh also deep and abiding love for crosstitch

[rose granite]

I know it's the case for one boss, was really convenient for ||needolin|| but don't know if it the case for others.

[south marten]

Just beat the shit out of them, it's that easy

[rose granite]

That one seems like a lot of fun.

[sinful stirrup]

You get a parry and it turns off your hurt box!

[proud cobalt]

They really like poison and burst damage with their tool choice.

They were very happy after getting saws.

[rose granite]

Think next playthrough I'll see if I can't play with all crests and silk skills unlocked from the start (and tools potentially) just for the sake of using the stuff I didn't in my first playthrough

[modern fossil]

Late game npc quest ||NO GARMOND. please tell me there's a way for zaza to be happy I don't want to see them waste away at Garmonds corpse 😭😭😭😭||

[rose granite]

Though admittedly I've used everything except ||Beast|| much.

[autumn kettle]

i really need to get good with hunter

[rose granite]

||My headcanon is that after the end of the game the people who were helped by Garmond come by Zaza and make sure they have food and shelter.||

||Zaza saved a Kingdom, so least they can do is save Zaza.||

[autumn kettle]

||I would love some kind of Hornet Wyrm Foresight cop-out for a golden ending with dlc||

[modern fossil]

||Team Cherry found out the secret on how to make character deaths even sadder. Give them an animal sidekick||

[south marten]

Fuck it we ball

[autumn kettle]

lmao

[rose granite]

||Look, if there's anything I want from a dlc it's hints at a Hollow Knight game.||

[autumn kettle]

barbed basedlet

[south marten]

TRUE

[rose granite]

||Give us our large boy, even if it takes a decade||

[autumn kettle]

||THK WHEEEEEERR||

||i also want second sentinel gameplay||

||that moveset looks so fucking playable||

that bitch is shaped like a protagonist

gimme

[rose granite]

||Second Sentinel is one of those characters who's fun to have around and write into a ttrpg campaign, but I'm fine with letting them be a cool character.||

||There are after all a few other characters across both games who'd be solid candidates by the same criterion. Tis why I want the large child the most, basic as it is.||

[rose granite]

Just parry

[south marten]

So

Barbed basedlet makes the boss deal 4 masks

Forgot about that little tidbit for a moment

[rose granite]

Speaking of just parry ||Witch is both fun to play and also feeling so much like a feast or famine for me.||

[rose granite]

Hey, that's like 3 hits.

You're fiiiiiine

[autumn kettle]

who needs mask when skill

hornet joat

[rose granite]

Just don't have the boss use their "fall on top of you" attack.

[autumn kettle]

rules of nature

[rose granite]

Sadly you cannot parry someone's body mass.

[autumn kettle]

can't you actually?

with cross stitch

[rose granite]

I mean I haven't tried to parry Moor falling on you when they get stunned?

[autumn kettle]

I'll go do that when I'm back home

[south marten]

You can!

[autumn kettle]

with splinter

[rose granite]

Oh didn't know that, neat!

[autumn kettle]

ballin

[rose granite]

Still kinda hoped their hitboxes shrunk a little when stunned, but that's funny.

The other fun stuff is to phase through enemies when they're blinking white. Want to get better at that.

[wanton bone]

I have been judged and found worthy!!!

[umbral canyon]

is it even possible to get cross stitch before moorwing?

[autumn kettle]

yeah, pretty easily

take wormways or fleas into greymoor, no moorwing, go get climb, go do phantom

go back and prog fleas to gate, moorwing again

you can also do the splinter skip and just leave her alive

but moorwing alive is intended and not prog breaking

[formal zenith]

strangely enough despite having failed the high halls gauntlet multiple times i actually don't feel very frustrated
i kinda enjoy weaving around the enemies

[umbral canyon]

ah yeah i never actually travelled with the fleas because i assumed they would just be going to areas you had, broadly, already been. go figure!

[umbral canyon]

i honestly think there's a big component of these fights that's just 'how cool are the vibes'

my hot take is that ||groal and bilewater in general|| wouldn't cause so much despair if it didn't take place in Blighttown 2

[elfin ravine]

I find Forum significantly less annoying because

• it's a flat arena instead of also having to worry about the maggot water
• it's directly across from a bench, so I can just try again near instantly
• and more personally, I just find the Choir enemies far less annoying to fight than the stilkin

[formal zenith]

the choir clappers do keep kicking my ass tho T~T

[formal zenith]

i keep forgetting to use my tools against them lol
too focused on needle

[inland wave]

nothing in this game has beaten me so thoroughly as ||The Dread Juggling||, was the sweetness of these beasts a ruse all along

[elfin ravine]

Yeah I was also stuck in minigame hell for a bit

[inland wave]

not once have I been ready for the ||Flea Brewer Jumping in||

he knows when I'm out of position he does

[proud cobalt]

Pretty interesting how you have to get the ||journal entry for the maggots.||

[inland wave]

Discovered by complete accident, was delighted

Also wild how much of that places' curse is just them

[proud cobalt]

I have yet to read up on that, look forward to it to know there's lore on it.

[proud cobalt]

Hornet has access to quite a few ||guns||, it makes me laugh.

[formal zenith]

GOT EM
ah, finally 😌

[proud cobalt]

Nice.

[dreamy scarab]

Bilewater sure is an area. ||Found the bench prank||

[proud cobalt]

Is that the one that ||Breaks into the floor||?

[dreamy scarab]

I wonder how much of Bilewater's lore was influenced by ||the nefarious Dung Eater||

[brave flower]

"nefarious"??

[thorny bear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p24YFCsAu7w

damn, couldn't even wait a weak for the "in under an hour" title

[proud cobalt]

I'm waiting to see if the Low% can compared to HK 45+ Hour run.

Ah, seems the officially accepted world record low% is way less than the 45 hour run I saw.

[thorny bear]

low% definitely can increase in time as people find convoluted ways to shave percentage points off

but i don't think silksong has anything remotely as grindy as manually farming essence in hollow knight

at least nothing that could save percent

[autumn kettle]

unless some kind of fuckass twilight princess rupee slide is discovered

but i can't think of anything that could come close, unless there's some really weird interaction with momentum storage somewhere

[proud cobalt]

I watched Skurry's video on his low% and it was a video if him cutting down his 45 hour stream that consists primarily of killing birds to farm essence.

Staying up for nearly 2 days straight of doing the same shit on Hollow Knight sounds like it would make my brain melt out my ears.

[spark ether]

Oh they didn't do that in one sitting, that was several 4ish hour streams over like a week I think

(also skurry uses they/them pronouns)

[sinful stirrup]

Made it to act 3!

Act 2 end boss is pretty good

[autumn kettle]

||big fan of silk||

||she's kind of easy, but super cool||

||i adore the spectacle of her||

and i can't wait to see how they make them harder with the godhome i'm hoping will come

[south marten]

!pronouns

[south marten]

My proof that it's one of the easier bosses: I beat it with the Barbed Basedlet twice in a row (I fucked up my button inputs to start Act 3 the first time)

[autumn kettle]

lmao

[autumn kettle]

||https://imgur.com/5Fqsn40|| i'm a bit proud of this, while i wait for godhome

okay i guess when spoiled imgur videos don't embed properly?

odd

i'm totally gonna fucking do all bosses all bindings

once we get silkhome

this game's bosses are so fucking cool

and then there's groat the grody

who was kind of cringe

[thorny bear]

idk you haven't even done steel soul 100% yet, can you really consider yourself good at silksong

<- has not done either steel soul or 100%

[autumn kettle]

i don't consider myself good at the game

but i am working on steel soul 100% rn

just uh

taking it slow so i don't burn myself out after one trillion hours week 1

[thorny bear]

honestly, I'm surprised Silksong hasn't done anything to minimize the cheese of quitting out in steel soul

[autumn kettle]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLezvFnZruE||

OH GOD IT'S FUCKED

GREAT GOOGLY-MOOGLY

this is the funniest fucking widow fight i'll ever seen

because it's so unoptimized

and so goddamn silly

just

||bench time :) face time :) bench time :) face time :)||

zero dodges

only smash

[brave flower]

what the

what the fuck is happening

[autumn kettle]

WAIT WHAT THE FUCK??????

THIS IS A POSSIBLE LACE SPOT???

that's deranged

[solar elbow]

that's funny

[autumn kettle]

they really fucking thought of everything

[south marten]

Where the hell is that?

I recognise it

[autumn kettle]

entrance of sinner's road

[solar elbow]

sinner's road?

[south marten]

But I can't think of where

[autumn kettle]

i knew that she could show up at blasted steps if you skipped lace 1

[hollow elm]

Def sinner's road, whatdahell

[autumn kettle]

but i did not know that she could also show up at fucking sinner's

[south marten]

Does she, like

Fight you there?

[autumn kettle]

nah

[sinful stirrup]

WHELP

[autumn kettle]

neither there nor cliffs

she's just introduced

[sinful stirrup]

Wish I did ||Forebrothers before act 3||

[autumn kettle]

||yeah, the mario bros are a bit of a chump with needle 4-5 and all the masks||

||they don't guard anything super special, though, so not a huge sweat||

[sinful stirrup]

No I mean, ||Possessed adds||

[autumn kettle]

OH

HUH

[sinful stirrup]

||And they seem to be in the way of the diving bell?||

[autumn kettle]

||yeah they're guarding that, but that's not necessary before act 3||

||so i thought there was no downside to putting them off lmao||

[south marten]

Yeah no any boss that you don't do before Act 3 (that's still there in Act 3) ||has posessed adds||

[sinful stirrup]

Luckily ||lava still kills possessed adds||

[brave flower]

i cannot

fucking wait

to see the silksong tas

[vagrant spruce]

jarlyk's posted a couple snippets of his wip tas, if you're curious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugt0ezchtXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgpMMalJlAI

first one is basically entirely spoiler free (not that it'd affect you), since it talks about the first couple rooms of the game + a bit of background on tas'ing/tas'ing for silksong movement specifically. the second one is the run up & boss fight for a specific act one story boss

[autumn kettle]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC9LS9KuCJo||

this is beyond unhinged

[granite hedge]

hmm

what do the bugs of Pharloom eat?

when they weren't haunted

[vagrant spruce]

apparently - mossberries, nectar, slices of a ham-adjacent meat, certain kinds of nuts, and pickled maggots

[granite hedge]

mossberries are poisonous- at least, their seeds are

nectar's a drink

🤔 ham adjacent meat sounds plausable (where do we know this?)

[elfin ravine]

Roaches

[granite hedge]

the crustnuts are more of a spice

[elfin ravine]

Sinner's Road is a herding area

[granite hedge]

and pickled maggots are gross (source: hornet)

ohhh

[elfin ravine]

Tastes terrible apparently

[granite hedge]

yeah

[vagrant spruce]

||"bring ingredients to this guy so he can cook a delicious meal for his liege-lord" side-quest, which involves all of those - one of them is a 'courier's rasher', and rasher is like a variation/kind of bacon||

[granite hedge]

🤔 ||i thought the rashers were just mystery meat||

[green bone]

You can see the fleas ||cooking Moorwing in the Flea Games|| act 3

[rose granite]

And waterbugs!

Considering we see them being hunted for their meat.

[hollow elm]

I think only if ||you clear Moorwing before they move there||.

[granite hedge]

🤔

ahh I see

[fathom shadow]

||First Sinner|| is such a fun boss. I haven't beaten her yet though.

Using the Wanderers Crest and Harpoon to maintain hits on her, and the double heal/quick heal combo to keep myself alive.

Beat her with only 1 mask left...

[vernal stone]

We know that Bellhart traditionally has a group that hunt the pondskaters in the Shellwood for meat

Oh wait Orange said that already

There's also NPC dialogue stating that at some point in the past Greymoor had a lot of fertile farmland before it was repurposed for thread catching

[autumn kettle]

once...

but then the citadel was built

and silk was coveted

and so all the wretched bugs below them had to start eating fucking muckroaches

dangerous, disgusting, unappetizing, not even nutritious

but plentiful

and that's all that matters to the people that didn't have to eat them

[fervent sand]

They also eat roaches

You get they guts for some food

There's also nectar, Moss berries, the flea troop seem to want to eat the moorwing

Once you get to that area they strap it to the top of their carriage

[wanton bone]

Ants hunt the little weird blob guys in farfields

[fervent sand]

I do wonder now what the rosaries are made of

[rose granite]

They also seem to milk aphids, implied as per Vintage Nectar.

I do love how the small ants will carry away anything not bolted to the ground, including tacks or the bodies of larger ants

[dreamy scarab]

Creige's needolin song mentions, and I quote, "straight from the teat." Which isn't new information beyond Vintage Nectar, but is gross information 😅

[hot mango]

They carry away tacks? That’s hilarious

Man I love the Ants

[elfin ravine]

They do yeah

[hot mango]

Act 3 final boss spoilers ||haven’t beaten Lost Lace yet, in fact I haven’t gotten past the first 30 seconds of the Void Waves phase (or phase 3), but it is kinda weird how Lace gets all these upgrades and yet she loses her Slash Storm and her Lingering Slash Waves from Lace 2||

[hot mango]

Act 3 Secret spoilers:
Games with Vague Stories and Environmental Storytelling: “Having the protagonist talk would introduce a lot of complications to the way the story is conveyed. It’d make the exact narrative too obvious and answer more questions than it would ask.”
Meanwhile, Hornet: ||”I know who Mister Mushroom is.”||

[modern fossil]

||lol seriously when I went to that and Hornet was just like "ah the Herald is here too" I was like ||

||What do you mean he's a mythological figure and not just a silly easter egg||

[hot mango]

||The fact she’s almost completely nonplussed about it makes it so much funnier||

||”Lace, the Herald is here”||

[modern fossil]

||"uhhh yeah mr mushroom is the herald of the end of eras, you didn't know that?"||

[fluid star]

Spoilers: ||She doesn't. Unless I'm thinking of different attacks.||

I'm ambivalent on her. The visual clutter on the last phase is real.

Her and ||Tormented Trobbio|| are my least favourite fights. So much shit on the screen.

[hot mango]

||I like Lost Lace personally, but I do dislike both Trobbio fights despite how much people like them due to the visual clutter and like. He should not be dealing 2 damage.||

|| Lost Lace honestly doesn’t have that much clutter tbh. The worse clutter she has is when she unleashes two void attacks in a row and even then it’s not that bad. She’s at her core a Duelist Fight||

[vernal stone]

I like it when he says his own name

[fluid star]

Have you survived longer in the third phase yet? Because of the rng on attacks it can get cluttered on screen.

The first two are fine though.

[hot mango]

Not really I suppose, ||thought I’ve observed that the Void Waves are the only real change to the fight. Lace moves at about the same speed, and a Void Waves prompt Lace to exit the field and stop cluttering so you can dodge||

[fluid star]

There's one more new attack that unlocks about halfway through the phase. And I did say it's rng how much clutter you get.

[green bone]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/s/FECJhuY8uC

||bait||

[proud cobalt]

Got it.

Here's to hoping I remember that.

I am abysmal at remembering pronouns.

My friends who changed pronouns I just use their usernames.

(With their permission.)

[severe swift]

Does getting hit when youre healing get rid of ALL your silk?

[brave flower]

yeah but warding bell makes that not happen

its there as a sort of countermeasure

because healing is really strong in this game

[severe swift]

Why? Why not just clear the silk you used to heal?

[brave flower]

to punish you for healing at a bad time

because you heal so much health so quickly, it needs to be punishing if you mess that up

[severe swift]

But it already punishes you by stopping the heal? All getting rid of all your silk does is feel bad

[brave flower]

then use warding bell

it prevents that from happening

[severe swift]

I get that. I just dont think it should be like that in the first place. Thanks for clearing it up tho

[brave flower]

its there to send a message

that message is "Do Not Get Hit While Healing"

9 times out of 10 you can prevent it from happening by waiting for an actual safe moment to heal

[fluid star]

You can also bind in mid-air.

[rose granite]

The quick bind tool is generally more consistent tbf..

[severe swift]

https://tenor.com/view/fig-gif-26092737

[fluid star]

Not liking it is valid, but there really isn't much more to it than "Team Cherry thought that's how it should work, so that's how it works."

[rose granite]

Whilst saying "don't get hit" is a tad bit blunt about it, like Factual said this ends up largely being a token of the design of the game.

[brave flower]

honestly the most frustrating part about discussing silksong for me has been that people keep going "i don't like this aspect of the game that is there intentionally, therefore it Is Bad and Should Not Be In The Game"

[rose granite]

I have things which examples I don't like, and others with examples I do like. It is going to be a divisive game at the end of the day, and whilst venting is something I try to clamp down on it's also a thing where yeah talks are going to contain both good and bad facets.

I would say for funktastic that at the end of the day the game is going to ask you to learn patterns as to know when to heal safely.

[elfin ravine]

I agree personally

It just feels overly punishing when you already got one heal wasted

[rose granite]

Though for gravel, that something is in the game by design and working as intended doesn't mean that it's a design one must agree with.

I do believe healing works well enough as is in the game in my experience, but that is also my personal experience.

[severe swift]

I never noticed it until I started playing witch crest, which encourages you to heal more aggressively, but then it punishes you for doing exactly that

[rose granite]

Witch crest is itself a difficult one to use. A lot of fun when against multiple foes though.

[severe swift]

I just feel like you not getting the heal + getting damaged + losing the heal bar worth of silk is enough

[rose granite]

I'll admit at that point I'm not sure how much more there is to say about the specifics of this.

[brave flower]

i get that, but i feel like people jump from "i dont like this" to "this shouldn't be in the game" too quickly in general

i feel like those are two different statements that are saying different things

and the latter is just much more frustrating for me i guess

[rose granite]

There are also folk who take "I don't like this specific thing" to be a challenge to the game as a whole, in part as a reaction I suspect to the backlash the game overall has suffered.

[fluid star]

Clawline goes brrrrrrr.

[severe swift]

True!

[rose granite]

This isn't unique to Silksong by any means, gods know I've learnt that from messing around with mechanics in Lancer and other TTRPGs.

[green bone]

Clawline users when the enemy gains vertical distance

[rose granite]

But I do empathise with you Gravel, and yeah can easily be taxing.

[dreamy scarab]

me, waiting for five minutes in (act 2) ||Sands|| for an enemy to stop firing ranged attacks into the void and come down to fight

[brave flower]

does the dedicated GARAMA button make flying enemies get closer

[green bone]

Anyways small observation, slightly weird everyone calls the ||Clawline|| its actual name cause I have been just using "harpoon" since I got it

[brave flower]

its called harpoon in the keybinds menu

[rose granite]

Over in #gm-corner , a rather common topic is that someone comes in having a poor first impression with a Mechanic/NPC/Frame, and their question is whether it's fine to rip out the whole thing.

[brave flower]

ive accidentally called it the "hookshot" a few times

[rose granite]

And it can take a bit to get used to that approach to subjects lol, and learn to break things down properly with someone instead. I'll admit that there are many times I roll my eyes and don't engage because I don't have the wherewithal, but that's something you also don't want happening too often because that's how you get regulars avoiding a channel.

[fluid star]

Most of the enemies can't really hit you from directly above, so you just chill until they float down basically.

[rose granite]

If it's weighing on ya feel free to contact a mod, don't know if we have a dedicated silksong one ;p, but yeah this whole game has been quite the release. I've still enjoyed playing it with a person I know and showing off all the cool things in it however.

[vagrant spruce]

i just call it the grapple lol

[brave flower]

the best part is that regardless of if you call it the clawline, hookshot, grapple or harpoon people will Know What You Mean

[elfin ravine]

And then they float down slightly while you jump up and you get hit by contact damage

[green bone]

I dont want to wait! I want to turn them into paste now

[hot mango]

No it doesn’t

[brave flower]

...yeah it does?

am i going insane

[elfin ravine]

It still wastes the one heal worth, but it doesn't make you lose all of your bar

[brave flower]

ah yeah

[severe swift]

I mean with that said I do think the way Ive been approaching mechanics I dont fully understand the point of has been to ask if theres something Im not seeing.

[hot mango]

I never noticed it took your whole bar, that’s ruthless

[elfin ravine]

Yeah

[dreamy scarab]

me neither, I think my silk hearts were throwing me off

[severe swift]

It makes playing witch a little tricky at times!

[brave flower]

witch is the most feast or famine weapon in the game

[dreamy scarab]

I still haven't found it

[brave flower]

it asks the exceptionally bold question of "what if thread storm healed you"

[rose granite]

I will say that when I've seen you bring it up here in the channel it's oft been in a more negative light, which again considering how The Discourse™ has been haunting Silksong I do believe it's worth framing it in a less accusatory manner.

Even if it being accusatory isn't what's intended, it can easily read as such.

[severe swift]

Thats fair, i think thats because I see a mechanic I dont understand but it doesnt bother me I just go on with my day.

[hot mango]

I think it asks the opposite- “what if healing triggered thread storm?” Since it costs a full bind to trigger. Also without help the damage from the heal does fall slightly behind thread storm

[fluid star]

Silk issue. ||/jk||

[hot mango]

Makes me feel weird when I largely also dislike what the community dislikes but still feels those elements belong in the game (contact damage, double damage, architect tool spam, etc)

[severe swift]

I dont think any mechanic should be removed from the game, but id be lying if I said I loved all those mechanics and wouldnt enjoy myself more if they were changed.

[dreamy scarab]

yeah. I think there's got to be room for engaging with the game critically, but there's a delicate balance with just...excessive salt.

one of the other server's I'm on I just end up scrolling past a lot of discussion because a couple of people are just unpleasant to read with how they engage with the game

[hot mango]

They recently did some Crest rebalances in the most recent patch, so I do hope they give Witch Bind a bit of a range increase in a future patch- it really feels like most enemies can dodge a majority of the hits and thereby your healing very trivially

It’s still good as is, but the skill floor is higher than where I’d personally like it to be

[brave flower]

honestly another thing they could do is like

add an upgraded warding bell that also does smth else?

[hot mango]

That’s a DLC thing probably but the ability to upgrade Warding Bell sounds nice

[dreamy scarab]

did those not make it into the patch notes? what did they change?

[hot mango]

They nerfed Architect’s Charged attack and the way Flintslate interacts with charge attacks, and charge attacks give silk now (hunter’s being the only one that gives 2 ticks of silk instead of 1)

[proud cobalt]

I use clawshot more than hookshot since I played more Twilight Princess than Ocarina of Time (Even though I had OoT for longer).

[hot mango]

Architect is still really good tho, but now it’s tied with Wanderer with Flintslate Charged Attacks and Witch is the strongest in terms of pure damage, which I think is fair since Witch is also the hardest to consistently land

[vagrant spruce]

oh charged attacks getting silk is crazy nice

that also makes me more confident they shadow nerfed beast crest

[hot mango]

Yeah that was most likely a glitch or something

[vagrant spruce]

since i swear it was hitting 2x in ripper mode

but when i tested an unrelated beast interaction it seems they changed it

[hot mango]

Pre patch people were seeing the damage increases as being more like a flat damage bonus rather than a damage multiplier

[vagrant spruce]

do you know what the archi charged changes were?

[brave flower]

witch is not the strongest in terms of pure damage

[vagrant spruce]

hitbox or damage value

[hot mango]

At least afai recall

[hot mango]

For the charged attack I mean

[brave flower]

that would be shaman

ohh ok

[hot mango]

Not generally

[vagrant spruce]

witch charged attack channels to be roughly equivalent to archi, but with a much larger aoe (hitting on both sides) in exchange for a longer animation

[brave flower]

does witch have as much raw horizontal range in one direction

[vagrant spruce]

nope

it has enough to be useful but not quite as absurd

[hot mango]

Pre patch yes, but since Archi’s charged attack got nerfed Witch beats our Archi by about 50 damage. It’s knockback is still weird though so it likely has a lower average than Archi despite having a higher max

Point is- Archi is still good, especially with Flintslate, but it doesn’t do everything now

[brave flower]

did they nerf shaman threadstorm

[hot mango]

I don’t recall, but they did buff a spoiler related to that ||Voltvyrm Shed or whatever it’s called. The numbers on the electricity didn’t really proc on any spells except for one tick after the last hit before, now it’s actually doing stuff||

[elfin ravine]

I didn't see anything about attacks getting changed in the notes

if that happened it's all stealth changes

[hot mango]

Yeah TC tends to do that with Crest and Tool changes

[elfin ravine]

not a fan of that tbh

[hot mango]

Yeah it’s not good

[elfin ravine]

if you change something put it in the notes

[hot mango]

Definitely, but I don’t think there’s any way to get them to publish those- it’s a weird line they refuse to cross

Either that or they forgot

Probably the latter tbh

[rose granite]

Mm, if there's a fear of spoilers you can do what Monster Train 2 did with its latest update.

[elfin ravine]

well there is the "various other changes and tweaks"
but I also generally hate it when patch notes do that, so my stance remains

[rose granite]

Which was to just say "Here be spoilers" after the general section.

[hot mango]

They talk about future bosses and areas in the patch notes is the thing so I don’t think that’s it

[elfin ravine]

there have been spoilers in the notes before, so I feel like that's not it

but who knows

[hot mango]

I think they see number changes related as something not worth elaborating on

[rose granite]

Okay then I have no idea beyond poor documentation lol, assuming there are undocumented changes

[hot mango]

Considering Path of Pain was never advertised or put in any patch notes ever I think trusting TC’s patch notes is just something you can’t do

[fluid star]

Well, you can trust them to be true. They haven't lied.

They're just not comprehensive.

[elfin ravine]

some of the choir enemies apparently also had their damage reduced?

[hot mango]

There’s only one that comes to mind in that regard and if it’s who I think it is oh thank Christ

[elfin ravine]

it's the Choir Hornhead (the big guys charging on the ground) and the Choir Elder (the big guys that slam down from the air)

[hot mango]

… oh wait those guys? Never mind

I mean it makes sense- big enemy shouldn’t necessarily mean double damage, but not who I was thinking about

[fluid star]

Who were you thinking about?

[hot mango]

That’s a change I think will impact first playthroughs the most and will be positive but if you’re experienced you prolly won’t notice

[elfin ravine]

might actually just be the Elder, and Hornhead was already only 1 damage

[hot mango]

||The High Halls flying guys who swing their head and have a counter||

||Their counter deals less damage than their regular attack which is weird sure, but their hitboxes are just super awkward to navigate around with their flight patterns, especially in the environments they post up in||

||I never thought they should be nerfed to be fair but nothing would make me happier than if they were||

[elfin ravine]

Act 2 NPC fanart

[inland wave]

Every time they pulled the ||'chair is raised when you walk in' i was so certain they died. Keep on keeping on, Number 12||

[hot mango]

./////.

[fluid star]

||They do die eventually. You get their heart and can break it down for shards. Because Hornet is uncaring like that.||

[rose granite]

They do look oddly humanoid in their proportions

[hot mango]

||You have the option, but like with the Hornet statue why on earth would you ever do that?||

[rose granite]

Specifically the torso is more human looking than I was expecting.

Still, neat art

[fluid star]

I mean, I didn't. I just thought it was weird you could.

You'd think they'd ||go on the shelves instead||.

[hot mango]

It’s like Menderbug

It’s a test of discipline and care

[rose granite]

I do think there's a significant difference between concealing a secret, something they've shown a love for, and tweaking some damage numbers tbf

[hot mango]

I see that, yes, but I don’t trust that TC does

It’s an… eccentricity I suppose

[severe swift]

“Various changes and tweaks”

The changes in question:

[thorny bear]

I didn't know there was an intended possibility of skipping lace 1, how?

[elfin ravine]

you go through Wormways

or travel with the Fleas

[thorny bear]

ah, makes sense

[hot mango]

As a side note, I suppose I’ve personally mentioned hopes for Silksong DLC a few times now, and even though TC has vaguely suggested interest in making DLC for Silksong, I think I do need to remind myself that Silksong is a complete and finished game that is extremely fun and good that I love as it is. As much as I’d love DLC, I think I should temper my own expectations and acknowledge that there doesn’t need to be DLC

[elfin ravine]

I feel like there will be some DLC

since they said they still had stuff to add if they continued dev for a few more years

[modern fossil]

I'm expecting a boss rush at least

[elfin ravine]

so I do think the possibility of some updates like HK had is high

[thorny bear]

no, boss today or we riot

[hot mango]

I just don’t want to fall into the trap of believing Silksong wasn’t a complete game at launch, like other games (mainly Triple A games) with DLC tend to behave

[modern fossil]

Stop paying attention to what I deleted 😭😭😭

[hot mango]

I know Hollow Knight got some of that flak in hindsight for that, mainly due to Lifeblood Update and Grimm Troupe

Although if all backer characters need to be included and some are absent from the base game, ||Then I get the feeling Steel Assassin Sharpe may be a Grimm Troupe style DLC, where you wander around the map and encounter them in order to progress towards a main goal||

[vagrant spruce]

ah true! my bad lmao

[thorny bear]

also

you'd think with how long everyone was waiting for silksong, they would have been careful with it

but no, they broke it within the first month

[hot mango]

Are you talking about speed runners or…?

[thorny bear]

did we get silksong warranty at least?

[thorny bear]

yeah they just broke the game in half

[autumn kettle]

god

[rose granite]

Admittedly that's just the nature of the paratext of games nowadays.

[autumn kettle]

that any% all glitches run

is so fucked

[thorny bear]

they figured out how to do the glitch that let people beat hollow knight in five minutes, where you walk back and forth between glitchy half-loaded rooms for a while and then credits roll

[autumn kettle]

the widow fight is the funniest thing I've ever seen

[green bone]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DO6mSdkjBri/?igsh=YzhzbmFkY2d3d2Z4

art_kimera

Swipe to see the full comic! ➡️

Oh no, there's only one bed, what a shame... ❤️🧡
Lil Silksong comic for all the bug yuri fans ~
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Tags: #art #drawing #doodle #illustration #fanart #hollowknight #Silksong #silksongfanart #videogamefanart #videogames #hollowknightsilksong #hollowknightfanart #hornet #digitaldrawing #digitalp...

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[rose granite]

The structure around games and folk having an incentive, both monetarily and for street cred, to be the ones doing cool/fast shit means you're going to have speedruns posted pretty darn quickly.

[fluid star]

Have a link?

[thorny bear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLezvFnZruE

this is very very unoptimized, i think it's fairly likely to go under 10 minutes once everyone figures out how to untangle everything going on here

[autumn kettle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLezvFnZruE

oh oops

[hot mango]

I like how there’s enough of evidence in Silksong for people to headcanon Hornet as either gay as hell or aroace as hell

[autumn kettle]

no, there's pretty hard evidence against her being aroace

maybe ace, but she explicitly had romantic partners

[hot mango]

||that same evidence can also suggest she’s lost interest in trying to find a partner because of the issues that arose from several things. There are several ways to interpret it and all are valid||

||We don’t do Gold Star Lesbian nonsense here (playful jab)||

[autumn kettle]

what?

i have no idea what that term means

[hoary tulip]

puritanism about being one sexuality and never having any other experiences

[autumn kettle]

ah

[hot mango]

Act 3 progression boss spoilers- ||so you know how earlier I was asking about the prospect of using Flea Brew, Beast Crest, and Flintslate all at once? Well… https://youtu.be/AeAtIuz9M0o||

[vagrant spruce]

do you know what the flint changes were?

away from being 50% nail damage? is it like 25% now, same as barbed bracelet?

(at max tools)

[hot mango]

There was a video I watched covering the specifics, lemme find and share it

Act 3 spoilers ofc ||https://youtu.be/IHQv0Zbu_EM||

[vagrant spruce]

bleh. im at work and watching videos requires effort

[elfin ravine]

I've heard someone say it's like a percentage thing now, instead of added damage

[vagrant spruce]

ill just test when im home

[hot mango]

I can send screenshots of the numbers showed in the video too

[vagrant spruce]

it was always percentage based

well. it was addrd damage but it was 50% extra

[vagrant spruce]

the weirdness was mostly w.r.t. charged but it sounded like more things were changed?

hm ok

[autumn kettle]

damn, reaper and beast are low as hell

[elfin ravine]

basically now it doesn't add the 50% nail damage to each hit anymore it seems

[hot mango]

Yeah so Flintslate only changed with respect to Charged attacks, not regular attacks

[vagrant spruce]

ahh ok

[hot mango]

||Volt Filament also changed||

Mainly getting buffed since it didn’t trigger properly before

[vagrant spruce]

oh sick

i thought it was intentional

[elfin ravine]

Filament numbers from the vid

[vagrant spruce]

that's almost tragic, if it actually applies to each hit it makes thread storm and ||pale nails|| even better?

[brave flower]

jfc

[vagrant spruce]

which is NOT necessary

oh it's just percentage based now

not flat

[elfin ravine]

yeah

[brave flower]

they nerfed archi and buffed shaman wtf

[vagrant spruce]

sick

[brave flower]

that was NOT necessary

[elfin ravine]

except for Rune Rage, which stays losing for some reason

[vagrant spruce]

nah volt filament is good on all crests

[proud cobalt]

It’s time to make Silksong OCs now…

[vagrant spruce]

and this actually makes shaman less cracked vs the other crests

[brave flower]

except for oooone

[vagrant spruce]

previously it was by far the best skill damage

now there's ways to get cracked skill damage without committing to no reds

well. you get what i mean

[elfin ravine]

wonder how the Volt buff and Shaman buff stack

[vagrant spruce]

additive likely

[hot mango]

Also after watching other people use it, I think Sharpdart has like.. much higher lingering IFrames than I expected

[elfin ravine]

most likely yeah

[vagrant spruce]

all other buffs are additive, and they were before

mostly thread storm is probably gonna be disgusting

[elfin ravine]

but yeah, Pale Nails probably even stronger now?

with Filament

[vagrant spruce]

thats uhh probably around 260 dmg or so now

nails with filament is what like 110 now?

since shaman adds 11 per hit

[hot mango]

IMO the damage numbers on a majority of the Silk Skills is fine, the only glaring issue is Needle Toss quickly getting outclassed

Not just by other Silk Skills but by red tools and ||Clawline||

[elfin ravine]

I mostly wish Needle Toss was faster tbh?

it locks you in place just a little too long for the damage it does I feel

[dreamy scarab]

the range and pierce are nice, but if enemies are chill and hanging back you probably still net more damage (and crowd control) off thread storm it feels like

[hot mango]

It’d probably be way too big of a change but I kinda wish it worked more like a Rubber Band or Slingshot style effect, where once it reaches its max distance Hornet gets a second or two to move as the needle returns and deals damage to enemies in the path

[dreamy scarab]

I guess it's still less commitment than storm

[severe swift]

I think Speedrunners can have their fun but its not something devs should ever consider unless the game is specifically about speedrunning

[elfin ravine]

also a bit more range maybe

[hot mango]

Personally, I think as one of the lowest commitment Silk Skills ||pale nails|| should some of the lowest Silk Skill damage numbers, but that’s just me

[elfin ravine]

but that's partially also just for it feeling weirdly short as a Vengeful equivalent

[hot mango]

Level of Commitment should directly translate into damage with the only other factors in play being auto-aim and I-Frames (but much smaller factors that Level of Commitment)

[severe swift]

||Pale nails|| is too good for how easy it is compared to other silk skills (compliment)

I think everything else should get a buff to match it

[hot mango]

Tis why I think Thread Storm is fine being the highest damage because you have to commit to it

||Rune Rage meanwhile could use a faster cast animation due to the delay it has and its weaker tracking||

[elfin ravine]

I feel like Nails is intentionally a bit higher tuned, since it's Act 3 exclusive and kinda secret

[hot mango]

That’s also fair

[elfin ravine]

Rune Rage needs any tracking at all tbh

[hot mango]

It does have tracking but it’s slow speed makes it feel like it doesn’t

[elfin ravine]

rn it feels like both the highest opportunity cost and the lowest reward

[dreamy scarab]

if they're act 3 and especially if they're secret, could we spoiler them?

[hot mango]

That’s what I’m doing

[dreamy scarab]

yep yep, you're good. like, I'm still making my way through act 2. I know I'm way behind most of y'all, but I'm also not the only one this far back

[hot mango]

Yeah I feel like we may have lifted the spoiler embargo on some things too fast in this chat

I guess it’s cause the assumption is “if you’re here you should’ve gotten x far into the game”

Still, act 2 secrets and everything act 3 should probably be spoilered

[rose granite]

Hey now, I ship her with ||Sprintmaster|| too.

[hot mango]

The list was not exhaustive

[rose granite]

Well not really, but there was a cute edit.

[hot mango]

Also should prolly spoil that because that name is a huge spoiler in and of itself

[autumn kettle]

it absolutely deserves to be Better Than Average considering it's a secret and act 3 only

it's just too much better than average rn

[hot mango]

Yeah I think that now with the additional context

[autumn kettle]

oh, i missed alaen's post

[rose granite]

Eh wouldn't say a huge spoiler, not more than any other name, but fine with putting it in spoilers.

[hot mango]

It was a huge surprise to me

My general assumption is ||if it appeared in Hollow Knight then it’s a spoiler||

[autumn kettle]

||well, pale nails sure wasn't a spell in HK||

[hot mango]

||Because no one is expecting most things from Hollow Knight to make such overt appearances nor knows what from Hollow Knight will appear||

[autumn kettle]

||but i think it's too obvious next to Silk||

[elfin ravine]

put DDark into Silksong as a silk skill

[autumn kettle]

based

actually wait

[hot mango]

||Sharpdart and Cross Stitch||

[rose granite]

||I'll fully admit to not memorising the name of every NPC who appears or is referenced in Hollow Knight||

[autumn kettle]

||volt desolate dive sounds like it would look so fucking cool||

i actually really want this now

[hot mango]

||I suppose but Dashmaster and Sprintmaster are fairly iconic charms||

||Regardless for those who have memorized stuff like that it’s a fun surprise I’d hate to spoil for anyone||

[brave flower]

||sans undertale charm||

[hot mango]

||And regardless, Sprintmaster is an act 3 NPC so spoiler tagging should probably still apply anyway||

[autumn kettle]

actually, come to think of it

[rose granite]

I don't have enough of a horse in the race to really care to say more about it, since it's in spoilers now.

[autumn kettle]

||I really hope they make volt filament affect the cave story gun||

[hot mango]

Fair, apologies I have a habit to go on tangents like that

[autumn kettle]

||since it also used silk||

[hot mango]

||I don’t think they did but that does sound like a fun as hell interaction||

[autumn kettle]

they did not

i just want them to

[brave flower]

they should 1000% do that for both ||rosary cannon and silkshot||

that way ||volt filament|| would have a use on every weapon for real

[hot mango]

You could probably make a really fun Summon Build with ||Pollip Pouch, Cogflies, Volt Filament, Pale Nails, and Wisp Lantern, perhaps throwing Weavelight in there if you’re running Witch Crest or smthn||

[brave flower]

||wisp lantern|| is unfortunately abysmal

[hot mango]

I’m aware but like Glowing Womb that does not stop it from being a required component

You know what just occurred to me?

Modded Crests

Considering the sheer amount of animations Hornet’s Sprite Sheet has and the things that are done with the Crest System as is there’s a ton of room for making Modded Crests

[autumn kettle]

yeah, i'm looking forward to those

[severe swift]

Rune Rage just being random is bizarre. It should cluster around where enemies are when you cast it

[autumn kettle]

gonna be a lot of work for full effort, though

[hot mango]

It does

It just doesn’t do a very good job at it

[severe swift]

Ah

[hot mango]

Act 3 spoiler ||I used it to kill a Void Mound through the floor once and it would’ve taken 3 times as long had it not had tracking||

[vagrant spruce]

oh thatd be sick

[brave flower]

architect ||volt filament rosary cannon silkshot||...

[hot mango]

||But it still took longer than the time I used thread storm instead- that just wasn’t an option due to the gap being too large||

[hot mango]

I can imagine stealing the particle effects from ||Mount Fay and making a Crest of the Crystal themed around ice, with the Needle Swing effects being replaced with arcs and launches of Ice Spikes. maybe having the Bind Bonus be giving Ice Masks that behave like Lifeblood||

[brave flower]

im hoping for like

crests of the priest (spends rosaries to do stuff, possibly like restoring silk), ||balladeer and vaultkeeper||

[autumn kettle]

||i want a crest of the Sentinel||

[brave flower]

OOH

crest of the ||dancers||

[autumn kettle]

||i think my big mod/dlc crest wishes are like, crest of the sentinel, crests for the four dreamers, and a crest of the hive||

[brave flower]

oh damn yeah all the ||dreamers|| are sick

[fluid star]

You can ||knock the GMS spikes down by hitting them?!?!?! That would have saved me so much trouble in my Twisted Child attempt...||

[autumn kettle]

yeah

two hits to clear, except when ????

in which case sometimes one hit

[brave flower]

ooh another one:

crest of the ||thespian||

[autumn kettle]

hah

||trobbio doesn't really have a crestable move, though||

||red tools would probably be the better pick||

||maybe a pimpillo upgrade that turns them into his cross bombs?||

[brave flower]

||trobbio|| crest but also you have a diagonal pogo that can be cancelled into dash attack by hitting the ground

like ||grimm||

[hot mango]

||The crest acts like a built in Pollip Pouch/Volt Filament and modified Silk Skills/red tools used to be explosive in some manner||

[elfin ravine]

that would be nice

[hot mango]

||Down attack or dash attack is the tornado||

[brave flower]

also when you do it hornet goes "||horneeeeet||"

[autumn kettle]

||nah she also screams trobbio||

[hot mango]

Oh I just realized!

Because you can swap Silk Skills, Charge Attacks, and Red Tools, modders can get really creative with custom Skills and Tools

[brave flower]

||evolved architect crest that chucks a lower-damage pinkish red copy of a tool for free after a brief delay when you chuck a red tool||

[hot mango]

Unlike in Hollow Knight where changing spell behavior kinda breaks everything

[brave flower]

(||it's grimm, the reference is grimm||)

[safe yew]

i think i've mentioned before, but considering (act 2 plot deets) ||the architect crest, i am inclined to expect conductor and vaultkeeper crests||

[brave flower]

sherma crest

dedicated garama button is replaced with hornet singing the sherma song

it generates silk

[autumn kettle]

i'm not expecting anything

but i am hungry

hungry for more

[hot mango]

I don’t see the symmetry personally. ||Conductor I think has fun ideas but I can’t imagine what a Vaultkeeper crest would look like||

[brave flower]

||path of pain|| cosplay

[autumn kettle]

||the vaults aren't the platforming zone, though||

[hot mango]

||Architect has a crest simply because there was just so much that could be done with the idea thanks to the existence of Red Tools, and also 13th architect is a different character with the same epithet||

[wanton bone]

A crest that gave increased IFrames and health tools would be funky. A more tank focused crest.

[hot mango]

Crest of the Metal Kirby

Hornet moves at a speed of 1 frame per second but is completely invulnerable to enemies (but not environmental hazards)

[brave flower]

ooh

crest of the ||researcher||

[hot mango]

that I can see

The name helps because if it’s not evocative then it’s kinda hard to come up with things

[brave flower]

||plasmium phial is always equipped, no longer has a reserve and passively refills over time||

or some other ||lifeblood|| related effect

[hot mango]

||Oh I was imagining something like an enemy mark mechanic- attacks give the enemy a sort of “poisoned” debuff, and the more they’re attacked the effect keeps refreshing and all damage against them is increased||

||Like Hunter Lock||

[brave flower]

thats kinda just ||hunter crest||

[hot mango]

You’re right actually it was different in my head

Crest of the ||Pinmaster, where Hornet gets multiple Charge Attacks that can be used in the same way Nail Arts were used in Hollow Knight, and maybe they + Pin Related Tools get special rider effects||

||Give Hornet the cool X-Slash||

[wanton bone]

Has anyone posted the video of ||act 1 mount fay (before clawline)||

[autumn kettle]

yeah

it could stand to be posted again though lmfao

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC9LS9KuCJo||

(act 2 movement tool spoilers)

[dreamy scarab]

speedrunner nonsense (affectionate)

[wanton bone]

This isn't speedrunner nonsense, this is randomizer nonsense

Speedrunners only care about a few skips overall that they practice extensively, randomizer has a much deeper pool of general skip tech to apply to situations. (That being said, this is probably only going to be in the "obscure/insane skips" section of randos)

I do love how everyone's pretty much agreed that Hornet's love of tools and experimenting with death machines ||Comes from her dad, and not the Weavers, despite them having impressive advanced technology.||

[autumn kettle]

it's just impossible to deny

||she can get a buzzsaw red tool and a buzzsaw blue tool||

||spikes, drones, traps, runes||

it's all there!

[proud cobalt]

Where are the Kingsmolds then?

[hot mango]

||She doesn’t like them||

[hot mango]

||I think it’s a little bit of column a, a little bit of column b, and then some extra Deepnest spice||

[proud cobalt]

Fair.

[hot mango]

This involves at least 2 deaths, crazy timing, several damage boosts, and like. So much more. And now it’s gonna be a standard- I hope randomizers add a setting for just this sequence and the ability to disable it it looks downright unfun with the amount of time you have to dedicate to it for just one or two checks

[autumn kettle]

it's not going to be a standard

HK rando has like five tiers of skip logic that you can toggle through

between glitches, shade pogos, and skips

[hot mango]

Fair enough- but I’ve seen some bad HK Rando Seeds as of late even with logic, and what is considered “in logic” has been… rough at times

[autumn kettle]

this'll be on one of em

[hot mango]

It’s a skip that blows so many others out of the water that giving it it’s own setting almost feels warranted- ||like if I wanted to do a rando with Skips involving Sharpdart and Death Pogoing I’d probably still want to disable this sequence specifically as an exception||

Because otherwise you have to give up being able to have fun with those skips in other parts of the game purely to not have to worry about this one edge case

[wanton bone]

I suspect that this will only show up in the “all skips” mode - or even be in some special mode beyond that.

[safe yew]

i'm given to understand some tool damage numbers got changed in the new patch, what're the particulars?

[dreamy scarab]

video here #1408102788616945684 message screen shots of some specific changes (charged attacks, flint slate, skills, later stuff) downthread

late (?) act 2 (||Bilewater||) boss: I've been bouncing off of ||Groal|| for a bit. weird fight! I don't think either the runback or arena portions are hard but they are rhythm breaking in how long they take. I wish I could stop beefing the inputs on ||king dodongoing|| him

[severe swift]

||Pale Stag|| runback... is it really that long or am I just missing something

[fluid star]

||Groal|| was the sole boss I just cheesed by ||staying in the water and using the platforms to stop him from sucking me up||. Fighting him was just too unfun to do properly.

[thorny bear]

https://www.tumblr.com/nimalings/795490066480939008?source=share

Enriching the universe with silly creatures!

Ok Hornet...

Tumblr · Sep 23, 2025, 2:40 PM

[brave flower]

hornet's such a creature

[proud cobalt]

Do ya' think the ||Scuttlebrace|| hurts to use or is Hornet just that flexible normally?

[modern fossil]

I have no doubt that the ||scuttlebrace|| is fun for hornet

[wanton bone]

I feel like Hornet is a bit of a gremlin. Terrifying in a prank war.

Hmm… is it me or is there a noticeable lack of “conflicting choice” quests?

[inland wave]

Did.. Hollow Knight have a lot of those? :|a I remember making Choice about the Nailsmith

[wanton bone]

Naismith and Grimm Troup ending.

Mostly feels more pronounced in Silksong given the dedicated quest system.

[somber smelt]

Considering how often the girl goes 'oh that would make a sick trap', yeah I buy it

[wanton bone]

(I also headcannon that her responses to the various traps of a more… prank-like nature in HK is “well done, you got me” rather than extreme ire.)

[somber smelt]

she absolutely was just kinda 'damn, you got me' to the ||hunter's march trick||

[wanton bone]

“That’s on me for not being prepared and aware enough”

[dreamy scarab]

Hornet would be a terrifying Jimminy Cricket on Kevin McAllister's shoulder

also: Groal down! I was getting so close every time, apparently the secret was doing one last run when I ran out of shards

[autumn kettle]

grats

[wanton bone]

Tools and spells being on F keeps throwing me off, it feels like a kind of rough button to press mid fight.

(I also have the perennial HK problem of accidentally holding up or down and tossing out the wrong thing)

[thick urchin]

Spent yesterday and today getting my ass beat by Widow phase 2. Phase 1 was easy, phase 2 kills me in 10 seconds. Then, like an hour ago, I got a god run- bells kept missing, I kept getting hits in, and widow actually went down. Hurrah, but... WTF?

[wanton bone]

Widow phase 2 was really just a "once you learn to handle an attack, it all just clicks" for me.

Phase 1 is cleanly telegraphed, phase 2 is really just "take your time, respect the options"

[thick urchin]

it was more that there was too much going on at once- by the time an attack ends she's halfway through the next.

Or at least you've missed the telegraph

[wanton bone]

Also getting used to that, yeah.

[thick urchin]

Anyway, went and got the upgraded hunter crest now.

[autumn kettle]

widow's definitely one of those bosses that teaches you how to keep an eye on the whole arena

[thick urchin]

Also found the Moss Mother double battle, didnt win

[wanton bone]

Oh god that fight.

[thick urchin]

I exfiltrated my rosaries and marked it as "come back later."

[dreamy scarab]

oh, lmao. I was determined to do Groal before rounding out the citadel, because I figured it would give me the ||witch crest|| I'd heard so much about...turns out you get that from the citadel (ish)