THE SILKSONG IS REAL

[fathom willow]

Not in quite a while

Oh, that would be very nice

I'll check back in soon

[autumn kettle]

[brave flower]

no bc i am terrified of ||bilewater||

[rose granite]

It's annoying but not too to bad, but if you don't want to do it I'd say go there after having done ||Mount Fay||

[brave flower]

sounds good

damn i gotta find so much craft metal

i need it for:

• ||buzzsaws||
• ||cogflies||
• ||silkshot||

[elfin ravine]

where is that one? I think I missed it

[brave flower]

oh right isnt ||bilewater accessed through sinners road||

[elfin ravine]

yes

[brave flower]

nightmare

idek how to make it ||out of the citadel|| yet

[autumn kettle]

bellway eventually

[brave flower]

oh looks like im not too far from it

nice

[rose granite]

||Eastern parts of Bilewater there's a weaver nest you can unlock with your needolin. Inside of it there's a broken tool, which can be made into one out of three guns.||

[elfin ravine]

huh

[rose granite]

I'm currently entertaining the idea that once I have all tools, I'll use a mod to ||unlock the two ones I can't get access to otherwise, just for fun||

But that's for the future, prolly just going to replay the game instead.

[umbral canyon]

found what i think is the last 'regular' area - ||sands of karak||.

||raging conchfly|| goes kinda crazy

classic 'huge hurtbox 2 damage' guy

[umbral canyon]

...and that's that. nothing for it now but to finish the ||high halls|| i guess

saving the ||chef''s quest|| for act 3 since it seems like Some Bullshit

[hoary tulip]

Do not

I can’t tell you why but you will SEVERELY regret this course of action

[inland wave]

I've found every ingredient but the ||Crust Thingy||, is that out in the ||Sands|| somewhere

[umbral canyon]

thank you, i would hate to be ashamed of my words and deeds so i'll wrap that up even though it seems like a massive pain in the ass

[hoary tulip]

Doing it in Act III will make your life Hell, it’ll piss on your crops, etc.

[lost brook]

||hornet says "fuck them kids"||

[inland wave]

I feel like the ||needolin|| should really cost nothing

Its not exactly a game breaker

[elfin ravine]

The food ingredients are mostly not too bad

The Rasher is annoying, but doable

[hoary tulip]

Cogflies

[inland wave]

wha about em

[hoary tulip]

You can just put your enemies on pause with the Needolin and say GET EM, BOYS

[inland wave]

Ahh

Well those are for nerds and I don't have them

I just want to play my damn fiddle for sad bugs

[hoary tulip]

There’s other cheesy nerd shit you can accomplish with the fiddle if you’re dedicated to it

[inland wave]

Toobad

At least make it last long enough to finish songs

On base silk

Or make it make the ||cogflies|| also sing /nod

[tacit wadi]

Cogflies are great

dunno if there are really any other tools that compete

[autumn kettle]

sawblades

are pretty nuts

[brave flower]

tacks and buzzsaws do more raw damage

cogflies are good for exploration and poison uptime

[autumn kettle]

the true power of the pale king

[tacit wadi]

Fair

[autumn kettle]

one million fucking buzzsaws

god

i hope we get a path of pain equivalent in silksong

and it's just

a white palace segment again

and so actual path of pain but deranged

[elfin ravine]

I need to get the tacks still

[autumn kettle]

3-mask saws and spikes

kingsmolds popping out of walls to fucking gank you

[elfin ravine]

wann try those for my next (Act 3 spoil) ||Carmelita attempts||

[autumn kettle]

god i love karmelita

10/10 boss, genuinely

what a fucking incredible fight

[elfin ravine]

the only thing that slightly annoys me about it is her blocking

because I can't fully figure out when she does it

think I got pretty close when I tried before already, I just usually fuck up slightly into her third phase

I'll probably try again with Needle 5

[tacit wadi]

oh yeah

we are the needle upgrades aside from the first 2

On act 3 and still on Needle 2

[elfin ravine]

there are two oil accessible in Act 2

one is ||in a side room in Whispering Vaults||
and one is the reward from the food quest

[tacit wadi]

what's the food quest again

I may have missed that

[elfin ravine]

look for the dining room in Choral Chambers

it's a big fetch quest spanning most of Act 2

[elfin ravine]

I recommend going for that first one first, because it's much easier to access

and then there is a third oil accessible in Act 3
from ||getting all the fleas and then doing the flea festival||

[tacit wadi]

gotcha

[elfin ravine]

it's on the left side of Chambers

once you see a dining room, run all the way to the right

[brave flower]

alr time to unlock the choral chambers bellway

[thorny bear]

by far the room in the game you'll pass through the most.

[elfin ravine]

you gotta go there any time you want to get in or out of the Citadel, so yeah

[lost brook]

hornet if you could just up and learn to walk witouth rhthym i wpuld be happy

[inland wave]

Taught by bees, rhythm is all she knows

[raw agate]

Maybe this has already been addressed but I'm now running into it and have no good answers as to why it's happening. Shakra isn't showing up for the Hunters March ant arena fight. I've bought out her stock. Idk if that did it.

But the fight is a chore with no back up or kit upgrades.

[dreamy scarab]

is she still hanging out at the bottom of the area, or did she move on to another area?

[raw agate]

She's at Bone Bottom last I saw her

Damn am I fucked? She just leaves if you go to Greymoor?

[brave flower]

god dammit i need ||13 more tools to get architect key||

[dreamy scarab]

I dunno how she works as a fight assist (I came to the March before I went to Shellwood to unlock the fight I think you're talking about), but she seems to work like Cornifer and moves on if you go to a new area.

[brave flower]

i gotta lock in

[raw agate]

Damn... Ok. I guess I'll go do literally anything else until I get upgrades

[brave flower]

the ||12th architect themself|| sells 3 but each of those require craft metal

[umbral canyon]

i can already tell the ||maggot|| one is gonna suck cause it means hiking back into ||sinner's road / bilewater||

besides that, i have the uh, ||coral nut thing|| and as for the ||moss stew|| i assume you go talk to one of the first NPCs you meet. not sure about the other two tbh

[autumn kettle]

i mean, you're not fucked, the ant arena isn't super overwhelming

i suggest relying on sting shards

takes out all but the ground units very easily

[elfin ravine]

That one is a bit tough, because of the boss you need to fight for it

[raw agate]

Haven't bought em yet

[elfin ravine]

Sting Shards are quite good

Do recommend

[autumn kettle]

in that case, if you don't have the craftmetal, basic pins can still help you deal with the fliers

[raw agate]

They're fine. If I buy the crafting kit does the pin damage increase?

[autumn kettle]

they've got a pretty straight shot

yeah

[raw agate]

Mm I want that

[autumn kettle]

crafting kits are your tool damage upgrade

and tool pouches are your tool capacity upgrade

i don't know the exact stats, yet, but crafting kits are a pretty respectable increase

[raw agate]

I like the pins, I'm nice with them. It's the wave that has you fight a spear guy and an elite ant that is giving me trouble

I usually tackle the elites with pogos and pins. Let them come to me. But the flying spear guys just dunk on me.

[autumn kettle]

iirc they have the same "tries to back off when you jump" AI that a lot of the fliers do?

so if you can manipulate/manage that you should be able to land pin shots on them

with reasonable consistency

[brave flower]

alr i need a bunch of tools for ||the architect key||, what are some low hanging fruit?
ive got:
||straight pin, longpin, sting shards, flea brew, delvers drill||
||druids eye, magma bell, polyp pouch, warding bell, injector band||
||compass, shard pendant, magnetite brooch||

[autumn kettle]

looks like you haven't hit the ||weavenests|| yet

i'd suggest picking up the stuff in those

[wanton bone]

||Cracked mask, and the stuff sold at Pilgrim's rest. Hang out by the greymoor grinding spot.||

[autumn kettle]

oh, those as well, yeah

||there's also the plasmium phial from zylotol||

[brave flower]

ive hit exactly ||alta||

[autumn kettle]

and if you have any craftmetal, the ||pimpillo||

[autumn kettle]

you missed ||weavelight||, then

[brave flower]

when i get craftmetal the first thing im getting is the ||buzzsaw||

[thorny bear]

You should absolutely save at least one craftmetal for a pile of supplies you will find in the citadel

where you craft the best tool in the game

[autumn kettle]

but yeah, you should also hit hunter's march

to pick up the ||skarr's pair of tools||

||fractured mask and curveclaw||

[brave flower]

i need so much craftmetal

i habe no idea where shakra is rn

[autumn kettle]

so, just to put it all in an easy list:

[elfin ravine]

craftmetal is weird and kind of all over the place

[hoary tulip]

I need to find more

I’ve got a legit critique of Silksong that I think will resonate with everyone

[autumn kettle]

far fields: ||pilgrim's rest for weighted belt, weavenest for silkspeed anklets||
hunter's march: ||mottled skarr for curveclaw and fractured mask||
mosslands: ||atla for weavelight, wormways for dead bug's purse and plasmium phial||
moorlands: ||craw lake for triple pins, sinner's road for tacks and barbed bracelet, bellhart for multibinder, thicket entrance for pimpillo||
citadel: ||blasted steps for magnetite dice, jubilana @ songclave for ascendant's grip, spool extender, and spider strings||

[hoary tulip]

Stunned bosses should not fucking do contact damage

That is bullshit.

[autumn kettle]

it's something i'm used to from hollow knight and the castlevania franchise

but i don't think it'd be a problem to remove

[hoary tulip]

I’m used to it too but with bosses falling when stunned

It gets kinda egregious

[autumn kettle]

the aerial bosses that fall should probably lose their hitboxes until they finish their landing animations, yeah

[thorny bear]

honestly, once you have the drones, tacks, and spike trap, there's not much practicality to more craftmetal

[autumn kettle]

like finish finish

[hoary tulip]

Even Soul Master didn’t flop over like a sack of potatoes and turn into a hitbox

[brave flower]

sister splinter's secret evil murder attack...

[brave flower]

buzzsaws

and the ||silkshot||

[thorny bear]

fair enough i suppose

[brave flower]

||magma bell|| is niche but very useful

[elfin ravine]

do the tacks cost a metal?

[autumn kettle]

||magma bell was a craftmetal purchase?||

nope

tacks are a quest reward

[brave flower]

oh

[elfin ravine]

or do you just mean they're better than most other tools?

[thorny bear]

oh, must've misremembered

[autumn kettle]

yeah you just get em for the roach guts

[elfin ravine]

you get them from the two goobers in Sinner's

[autumn kettle]

no extra reqs necessary

[hoary tulip]

Has anyone figured out what to do with the mineral deposits

[autumn kettle]

yes

they're purely for lore

[hoary tulip]

Damn

That felt like a quest in the making when I found multiple of em

[thorny bear]

but yeah, most things you can spend craftmetal on just don't have advantage over other options

[autumn kettle]

they're one of the little journal entry things you fill out in your memorium atlas

[hoary tulip]

Hmm

[autumn kettle]

no achievement tied to them, and no other bonus as far as i know

they're just there for fun/if you're a collector

[elfin ravine]

I think I have most of the craftmetal now

or only missing one or two

[autumn kettle]

nice

have you grabbed the ||thicket|| one?

[elfin ravine]

I think I did

[hoary tulip]

The DLC will add stuff to do with em

For sure for sure

[autumn kettle]

lol

[elfin ravine]

fuck that area btw

glad I got there so late

[autumn kettle]

LOL

yeah

[brave flower]

im currently farming rosaries in the damn underworks

[autumn kettle]

the wisps are so fucked

[brave flower]

to activate the tube so i can get back to ||12th architect|| from the bellway

[autumn kettle]

one thing i actively dislike is that ||the magma bell doesn't halve the damage of the thicket's fire enemies||

[elfin ravine]

honestly just come back for the Ventrica later

farming in Underworks is just miserable

[brave flower]

the problem is i am liable to die in the underworls

[thorny bear]

imo you always want a few rosary strings on you specifically for emergency toll purchases

[brave flower]

so if i come back with a truckload of rosaries and die on yhe way back to the architect i will lose my
mind

[autumn kettle]

there are other shortcuts

[hoary tulip]

Rosary strings are clutch

[elfin ravine]

underworks is just bad, because the enemies drop barely any rosaries

[brave flower]

teah but thats the best one bc you can get there straight from the bellway,,,

[elfin ravine]

when you could just rampage through Choral for a bit and get like ten times that much

[hoary tulip]

Choral Chambers sure is the land of rosary drops

[brave flower]

and the less time i have to spend in fuckin ||whiteward|| the better

hate that place

i have not found the map

[elfin ravine]

a lot of the Citadel maps are hidden in little side rooms

[brave flower]

yeag

actually now that i think about it

i know my way around the underworls

i can get back to the tube with no issue

[hoary tulip]

Citadel is so funny

I love Dracula’s castle just existing in the center of a Metroid map

[brave flower]

OH RIGHT I CAN GO DO ||MOUNT FAY|| NOW

[hoary tulip]

Totally different flow of combat and movement

[autumn kettle]

it's peak decisionmaking

[autumn kettle]

i fucking adore that zone

it's so cool

i hope we get more like it in dlc

[hoary tulip]

Aesthetic, tone, BGM and style are just

Completely distinct and almost discontinuous

[brave flower]

damn what tool loadout am i even gonna bring in

[autumn kettle]

i also loved the parkour style

[brave flower]

prolly ||weavelight|| once i get that

[autumn kettle]

your favorite pogo crest with ascendant's grip

and nothing else matters, because there's uh

effectively no combat

[brave flower]

silk regen will matter

for harpoon speed

[autumn kettle]

🤏

kinda

it's definitely useful for comfort

but don't sweat it too much

i did it without taking damage, without either ||weavelight|| or either act 2 silk heart

just gotta be confident and decisive

[brave flower]

i kiiiinda want to do it with ||architect||, but i will not bc that sounds horrible actually

[autumn kettle]

lol

[brave flower]

• id have to find a memory to get a non red slot

which i do alr need to do so i can put poison on it but

yknow

[thorny bear]

i wouldn't too much about ||architect|| yet

[sinful stirrup]

I'd grab ascendant grip as well

[autumn kettle]

no shame in using the map for the lockets, some of em are crammed in wacky places

[sinful stirrup]

Ascender's grasp? Never get thr name right

[thorny bear]

it gets better lategame, and you will naturally get enough tools as the game progresses

[autumn kettle]

ascendant's grip was right

i think i didn't get sting shard's name correct a single fucking time until like

yesterday

sometimes shit just slides out of your brain lmfao

[brave flower]

that is the entire thing im trying to do rn

i like it and want to use it

[autumn kettle]

well, you've got that pretty big list of tools to work your way down

most don't even need beads

[hoary tulip]

Has anyone here figured out how to overdose on ||Lifeblood||?

[autumn kettle]

wait what

that's a thing you can do?

[elfin ravine]

you can do that?

[autumn kettle]

well, if it is and you figure it out let me know

[thorny bear]

there were definitely implications in Hollow Knight that ||Lifeblood is a dangerous otherworldly substance, so it makes sense that a mortal like Hornet would be hurt by it||

[hoary tulip]

You can

[elfin ravine]

how much of it do you need to use?

[hoary tulip]

||If you get more than 8 Lifeblood masks, Hornet will overdose, destroying them and turning all her baseline masks into blue ones that regenerate passively||

[elfin ravine]

Act 3
||love how the lifeblood guy in Wormways is like "don't worry, I've been injecting myself and the local wildlife with lifeblood all the time, and it's totally safe", and then you come back to Wormways in Act 3 ||

[elfin ravine]

huh

[hoary tulip]

It’s like

[autumn kettle]

it's peam

[hoary tulip]

Insanely strong?

[autumn kettle]

WAIT REALLY?

[hoary tulip]

But also crazy to actually do on purpose

[autumn kettle]

||does this last until bench?||

[hoary tulip]

Aye

It’s insanely strong

[autumn kettle]

zamn

that's fucking nuts

i love it

[elfin ravine]

I guess you need either Architect or environmental lifeblood for it

[hoary tulip]

But you can’t do it without ||Architect quick-craft and I think also infinite Lifeblood gland||

[elfin ravine]

since I think the injector caps out at six uses?

[hoary tulip]

Sure does

It’s a VERY strange technique

Dunno when I’d use it

[autumn kettle]

||there are two environmental pods that you can go to, if you're not running architect||

[elfin ravine]

what an odd thing

[autumn kettle]

god i love this game

[hoary tulip]

Absolutely bizarre but wacky technology

||Lifeblood|| in general is some wacky shit in Silksong

[autumn kettle]

YEAH

IT'S PEAK

[hoary tulip]

there's also the poison combo with that tool which is just bizarre

[autumn kettle]

YEAH

IT'S PEAK

holy fuckles

[hoary tulip]

Now you are immortal

[elfin ravine]

||how quickly do they come back? ||

also what's the first tool in your bar there

[autumn kettle]

time to find out

[hoary tulip]

Surprisingly fast

[autumn kettle]

||curvesickle, the upgraded curveclaw||

[hoary tulip]

||Super Curveclaw||

[elfin ravine]

huh

[autumn kettle]

aw it goes away on bell beast ride too

[elfin ravine]

RIP

[autumn kettle]

sadge

[hoary tulip]

It’s very fragile

[autumn kettle]

looks to be about 8 seconds

[elfin ravine]

not terrible I guess

[hoary tulip]

You become the exploration monster

[autumn kettle]

||you cannot, in fact, heal them with silkbind||

[elfin ravine]

oh

[autumn kettle]

||okay this is super fucking cool||

[elfin ravine]

I see

that was gonna be my next question

[autumn kettle]

||you have to heal them with the lifeblood injector||

||which can no longer overcap you, but does restore your lifeblood masks||

[brave flower]

holy shit is ||architect|| gonna be The Exploration Crest after all

thats insane

yummy ||hiveblood||

[autumn kettle]

they're all really good at different things in exploration ngl

but it does seem like the outlier

[severe swift]

Is there still a moratorium on negativity here? /gen

[tacit wadi]

so where's the dining room in the Choral Chambers?

can't seem to find it

[hoary tulip]

It’s permanent

[tacit wadi]

oh wait I'm, dumb

[hollow elm]

(Act 2) I didn't exepect to get attatched to ||Architect Crest|| so quickly, if at all. ||Fast thrusting swings, and comparatively screen-destroying Needle Strike (high damage lance thrust)|| are exactly my kind of style. ||The multi-hit of Architect partially bypasses enemy parries by dealing more damage after the clash/i-frames.||

[brave flower]

damn am i seriously gonna abandon poison to do this

i think i might

[autumn kettle]

lmfao

[brave flower]

||lifeblood mode|| is so cool

[autumn kettle]

I'm super glad other folks are enjoying it so much

i bounced off it pretty immediately

[brave flower]

its like

the number one chicanery crest

[proud cobalt]

It sounds cool.

[hollow elm]

It's taking some time to adjust to, but it's got good returns

[brave flower]

i gotta grab that damn crest its SO COOL

probably INSANELY silk efficient too with the ||lifeblood setup||

how much silk does ||architect's tool repair|| cost

if you're getting ||six total masks of healing|| from that

[autumn kettle]

standard bind

[brave flower]

gotcha

alr im going tool hunting now

[hollow elm]

*||still burns shards, so it's more extending time between benches.||

[autumn kettle]

unrelated to anything

does anyone know the specific inputs for a dash attack? because it's felt super fucking inconsistent for me

[hoary tulip]

Hold dash, hit nail

You need to be actively dashing for it to come out

[autumn kettle]

it seems like i need to double tap attack while sprinting

because a single tap just

makes me stop

[hollow elm]

Might be a crest specific thing?

[autumn kettle]

nah, it's the case for all of em

wonder if it's a kbm bug?

oh

it also seems to work if i stop holding dash right before i attack

[hoary tulip]

Keyboard ghosting?

[autumn kettle]

dunno

guess so

[rose granite]

Yeah, that's odd

[dreamy scarab]

Yeah, on an Xbox controller it's straightforward: be holding rt for dash, hit x to dash attack

[sinful stirrup]

Same on switch pro

[hollow elm]

(Act 2) Really slot-heavy, but ||Multibind, Claw Mirror, and Injector Band effectively creates Assault Armor on Bind. Aprox the same time as a regular bind, but there's an explosion in the middle, and end.||

[rose granite]

Quick question regarding the ending ||is there anything you can do to lock yourself out of various routes? Want to check to be sure.||

[elfin ravine]

the only ending you can lock yourself out of is ||Twisted Child||

which you get for ||defeating Silk while still infected with the twisted bud||

also once you enter act 3 you can't get the regular ending anymore, of course

[rose granite]

Good to know

But I'm guessing there's nothing which permanently locks you out of the ||presumed true ending of the game||

[elfin ravine]

don't think so, no

[rose granite]

Thank you, didn't think this was that kind of game but worth double checking

[formal zenith]

uhhh did i fuck up
i left the citadel through ||the grand gate|| and now that i'm coming back i can't seem to get back into the ||underworks||
do i have to go through ||sinner's road|| now

[autumn kettle]

no

[formal zenith]

wait i figured it out LMAO

actually wait maybe not
uhhh i'll keep trying to get back into ||choral chambers|| and if i'm still stuck i'll ask again

[brave flower]

did u get the ||bellway||

[formal zenith]

i just found the ||slab bellway||

[brave flower]

theres one in ||choral chambers||

[formal zenith]

i'm sure i'll run into it eventually :P

YOOOOOOO ||sherma found the baths|| let's GOOOOOO

[dreamy scarab]

me: "I'll circle back and defeat ||Moorwing|| so that I can say I did it before the patch"
me: "...that's weird, I've cleared the whole area and I know people said they ran into the boss on accident...
*look it up*
"the fleas lock you out of the fight??"

[sinful stirrup]

Not permanently!

He spawned elsewhere for me in act 2

[dreamy scarab]

oh, interesting, fully in a different act?

I figured it would be the same place, just after sending the fleas on their way

[sinful stirrup]

No, it's in the field by the moor bellway

[hollow elm]

I think my main pain point ith 2-mask damage is when it's an enemy that rushes at you dealing 2 contact damage. Can quickly turn into 4 damage from getting run over by attack + body.

It's like getting blown up by a combo in a fighting game, and Hornet really lacks escape options

[rose granite]

Neat detail that I love ||the song you play with the needolin changes from time to time depending on your circumstances. For example when you visit the grave of Shakra's master, you play Shakra's melody for her even when alone||

[brave flower]

you should be able to ||play the sherma song|| i think

[hollow elm]

(Act 2 Tools) Still reeling from the damage output of ||Claw Mirror + Multibinder + Injector Band, like a more extreme Thread Storm that also heals||.

[thorny bear]

got witch; it's a lot like beast in that it would be pretty neat if you were able to heal

[hollow elm]

It definitely limits their usability, though it also gives them room for stronger returns.

[autumn kettle]

it's a lot of investment for it

but it's got very strong output

[elfin ravine]

I am trapped in minigame hell

||Flea Juggle is gonna make me hate the sound of the fleas||

[autumn kettle]

yeah, i hated ||flea juggle||

[brave flower]

awoo!

[autumn kettle]

the other two were fun, though

[elfin ravine]

I got to 28, and then they just all went to opposite directions of the platform so I couldn't catch them

it just feels very random in a frustrating way

feels like sometimes I just get a bad pattern and get screwed

I'M FREE

finally

and it feels like the game was still trolling me, because my last attempt got to like 44

[autumn kettle]

congrats

[umbral canyon]

the delivery quest is beating my ass

[thorny bear]

yeah it's rough

they did not need to make bumping a wall count as taking damage

[umbral canyon]

i might take the grind to pre-clear the enemies along the route

[thorny bear]

i remember hearing they don't stay cleared if you do that

could be incorrect

but once you have enough movement abilities it's definitely doable with enemies

[umbral canyon]

yeah i'm about as good as i'm gonna get for act 2

||clawline, double jump, silkspeed anklets, weavelight||

just gotta git gud

[sinful stirrup]

Man the forum is sure something

[hoary tulip]

the forum?

oh

yeah

[autumn kettle]

steam forum

[hoary tulip]

I think they mean the High Halls forum lmfao

[autumn kettle]

ah

that also makes sense

lol

[hoary tulip]

which is an encounter that you can go into raw and really really suffer through

or stack the deck for

considerably

[autumn kettle]

the steam forum is full of slop too though

[hoary tulip]

the steam forum is an encounter you can go into raw and really suffer through and there's absolutely nothing you can do to make it better

[autumn kettle]

i dunno, i've found that poisoned buzzsaws work out pretty well there too

[hoary tulip]

REAL

[hollow elm]

It varies, small enemies (small, 1-mask damage usually) will respawn between screens.

[autumn kettle]

some two-maskers of note are the little assassin bugs in blasted steps

[thorny bear]

despite steam forum usually being the most wretched hive of scum and villainy on the planet, the silksong one is surprisingly chill

[dense grove]

That last image is post Hornet casting Greater Polycule

[autumn kettle]

lace may be immortal, but she's also explicitly a child

she's just hanging

[hoary tulip]

lace is their kid

[forest jasper]

dipping in and out to avoid spoilers (if I see them I click on instinct) but god damn the citadel is good
it's so empty, and it's such an incredible transition from all the past environments that were packed with life

[elfin ravine]

I think Hornet/Lace is a good ship tbh

also they both call each other child the first time they meet lmao

[hoary tulip]

yeah fairly sure they're not that different in age or nature

funny to have Lace be their kid tho

[elfin ravine]

they are both way older than they seem

[autumn kettle]

no, several characters, hornet included, make very clear note that lace has been around for a long time but is a child in both mind and body

this is just textual

[hoary tulip]

hmm

||She's definitely childlike in some ways but I took it as her just being designed a certain way?||

[autumn kettle]

||whether that changes by the end of the game, or will begin to change, is unclear||

||because of what she is and how she is now free||

[hoary tulip]

||seeing as she's custom-built by Grandmother Silk to look like that||

[autumn kettle]

||and that's very possible, but hornet and the snails both talk about how she's a kid mentally||

||despite her long life||

[hoary tulip]

yeah uh

[autumn kettle]

||now, post-game this may begin to change because Mother is no longer around||

[hoary tulip]

I don't think we're to take that in the sense of her being romantically immature

[autumn kettle]

but it seems like a pretty clear signal of intent to me

[hoary tulip]

||She's a coddled, slightly stunted person in terms of how much chance she's had to grow and figure out the world for herself||

[autumn kettle]

which is, admittedly, surprising, given my initial assumptions

[autumn kettle]

||i think i would be more inclined to agree with this if they didn't emphasize both the body and mind||

[hoary tulip]

||like, I just do not think we're supposed to take this as "Lace is literally a child, she has a child's mind and sees things in the way children do" so much as "Lace has not had a chance to develop perspective outside of what her mother intends for her and this makes her very limited in certain ways"||

[autumn kettle]

||i definitely interpret it as "lace is a person who has seen very little, but for a very long time, and is trapped by her nature, by the control of her mother, and by her own wilful blindness in the role and perspective of a child"||

[hoary tulip]

||I think we would've gotten some extremely clear signals to the contrary in her dialogue otherwise||

[autumn kettle]

||because the idea of "childish spite" is mentioned at least once as well||

[hoary tulip]

||now I do think there's room to say that Hornet/Lace is like, unbalanced until after Lace gets a chance to live some life outside of Grandmother Silk's thumb, that's fine and probably a good take||

[autumn kettle]

||the fact that the dialogue emphasizes that repeatedly, as opposed to a general immaturity, is what makes me confident||

||i suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree, because i don't think i'll be swayed from the opinion that the repetition of specifically the word child used a number of times to describe lace by multiple characters in multiple situations is meant to be read straightforwardly||

[hoary tulip]

||you know who else is described specifically by the word child by multiple characters in multiple situations, repeatedly, and it's clearly not meant to be read straightforwardly||

[autumn kettle]

||yeah, but in hornet's case it's specifically a perception of physical youth that she corrects||

[hoary tulip]

||yeah because everyone has a very clear and unbiased perception of Lace||

[pallid shell]

Alright y'all wanna hear my spicy potential hornet ship I haven't seen anyone else post about?

[autumn kettle]

yeah

[pallid shell]

Hornet/Eva

[hoary tulip]

canon

[brave flower]

thats just canon i think yeah

[hoary tulip]

next

[autumn kettle]

yeah that's just correct

||eva's ego death through subsumption is like, extremely romantic in at least one sense to me||

[hoary tulip]

||if you is merged physically and spiritually with a same-sex partner for more than 7 days in a peaceful and fulfilling union of body, mind, and soul, that's not using the fusion dance for fighting anymore, you is just gay||

[autumn kettle]

||hornet becomes/accepts/sees/knows all of eva||

[torn sky]

I do find it funny how much more characterisation silksong has the moment it reveals that 'no, the protagonists are not inherantly silent. That's just How The Knight Was'. XD

[autumn kettle]

||it's like...the martyrdom of marriage||

we knew that from go!

the knights Were Not Designed To Speak

no voice to cry suffering

[hoary tulip]

yeah but Hornet could have shut up

[thorny bear]

there is very much a philosophical argument to be made as to whether being the same person as someone is the same thing as romance

[hoary tulip]

she didn't tho

[brave flower]

HEY WAIT

[thorny bear]

and most video game players assume that the protagonist not talking doesn't mean they're mute

[pallid shell]

I haven't seen any fanart for Eva/Hornet, so I felt like I was cooking

[hoary tulip]

the fanart is called Hollow Knight: Silksong

[thorny bear]

samus, link, gordon freeman, etc

[hoary tulip]

it's available on your PC through all major digital storefronts

[brave flower]

where the fuck is the uh

||hornet hunt log abt the clover princes||

its very relevant to the current conversation about hornet/eva i think

[autumn kettle]

i think like 99% of the zelda fanbase treats link as some form of mute

[brave flower]

link goes HUP and HEYAAAAH

[hoary tulip]

that's new though

[brave flower]

and thats it

[autumn kettle]

this is true

it is new

[thorny bear]

like, by the logic of "assimilation=romance", did the Knight romance the Godseeker in the Godhome ending?

[hoary tulip]

they used to just go "yeah Link talks we just don't know what he says because he's our stand-in"

[hoary tulip]

Yes, that's why we gave them a flower.

[autumn kettle]

no because that one wasn't as

laden with subtext

as this one was

[thorny bear]

that is specifically the ending where you do not assimilate them

[autumn kettle]

but also we've been spoiling that :v

[hoary tulip]

also it was not nearly as intimate and trusting lmfao

[autumn kettle]

or willing

[hoary tulip]

consent matters!

[lost brook]

||"hey i learnt this move from my big bro hollow,check it out"||

[dense grove]

Oh shit nevermind

[brave flower]

theres something really funny you can do with this btw

||if you use architect to get i think 8 lifeblood masks, Something Happens||

[autumn kettle]

||nine||

||gotta pass eight||

[brave flower]

thats really rough to do btw

bc you only get 20 uses of the phial before you have to go refill it

[autumn kettle]

well

||only until you progress to act 3||

[brave flower]

oh fascinating

[thorny bear]

huh

til speedrunners don't ||fight sister splinter||

[brave flower]

WHAT???

[autumn kettle]

||yeah you can skip her||

||with careful enemy luring and pogos||

[brave flower]

oh i see!

[thorny bear]

when you do the taunt it makes enemies move towards you, so you can lure a flying enemy to the perfect position to pogo

[autumn kettle]

||you can also skip fourth chorus, but i think both of the faster routes are just skipping float entirely||

[brave flower]

ig that makes sense

[dense grove]

After reading the patch notes I shall wear my 'beat pre-patch moorwing and sister splinter' badge with pride

[autumn kettle]

||fun fact: the fourth chorus skip is literally just walking out of its arena||

||because you can do that||

||you can just fucking leave||

[brave flower]

thats amazing

[thorny bear]

wait how would you skip float

[dense grove]

I'm fucking mad I didn't think of that

[thorny bear]

there's so much wind lifts you need to ride

[brave flower]

fleas, i think

teleport you up to greymoor

[autumn kettle]

flea or key route to greymoor

and then just

coping hard with assorted pogos, wall clings, and sprint jumping

[thorny bear]

well you can't just leave. There isn't a wall blocking you to the left, but there's a very wide gap you need precise janky movement to get over

[autumn kettle]

there's not very much in citadel that needs float

just things in like

high halls

that really fucking expect it

[brave flower]

wild

[autumn kettle]

it's super difficult, though

which is why the float route exists

[pallid shell]

I beat sister splinter pretty easy, what trouble were people having?

[elfin ravine]

That's a lot of pogo for high halls

[autumn kettle]

yeah it's

some fucked movement

[thorny bear]

personally i would not put sister splinter in, like, top 15 hardest bosses

but i heard a lot of people struggled with her

[autumn kettle]

i have no idea, i've watched like

[brave flower]

she requires a specific shift in mindset

[thorny bear]

is there a tier list maker for silksong bosses yet

[autumn kettle]

four variety streamers and a couple more Hardcore Gamer™ streamers play ss

and none of them took more than like

ten tries on splinter

[green bone]

||Last Judge killed me cause I was too close in that part where their incense explodes||

[hidden flame]

I am currently walled hard by sis splint

[autumn kettle]

and all of those tries were "i fucked up and didn't respect her mechanics/adds"

[brave flower]

alr heres the strategy

dont heal

[pallid shell]

ddo you have threadd storm?

[brave flower]

save your silk to oneshot the adds (and vines if needed)

[hidden flame]

That's my other wall, lol

[brave flower]

thread storm is worse than silk spear for splinter

[hidden flame]

Those

Stubid

Birb

[brave flower]

silk spear gets like a billion vines each cast

[hoary tulip]

thread storm instakills adds tho

[brave flower]

so does silk spear???

[hoary tulip]

oh shit real?

[brave flower]

yeah

[pallid shell]

really? I found it really nice because the the vines aren't an issue if you stun her
but Thread Storm insta kills both ads and is super easy to hit all 3 of them

[brave flower]

thats the whole reason

[hoary tulip]

I did not understand silkspear's game

[pallid shell]

like you have to do weird movement to line up silkspear to hit both ads since they spawn on opposite sides

[autumn kettle]

silkspear is really good

[brave flower]

silkspear isnt too hard to line up

[thorny bear]

o shit, they buffed relics to actually give money now?

[brave flower]

you can just walk behind the adds as theyre spawning in

[hoary tulip]

relics?

[autumn kettle]

yeah, the speedrun routing is now fucking clean

[autumn kettle]

same as in HK

[brave flower]

yeah like the bone scroll

[thorny bear]

what you sell to the collector in town

[autumn kettle]

in this case things like the scrolls and harps

[hoary tulip]

ohh, those

yeah

[autumn kettle]

scrolls went from uhh

90 to 190?

[brave flower]

DAAAAAAAAMN

[autumn kettle]

and bench/bell costs went down, so the two bellways any% grabs are now <190

and there's one scroll right on the way to blasted steps iirc

[hoary tulip]

damn wtf

holy shit the UPDATES

[autumn kettle]

so any% money routing doesn't exist anymore

completely free now

[brave flower]

did tube costs go down

id like tube costs to be lower

[autumn kettle]

aren't they only like 80-150?

at that point in the game that should be pocket change

[brave flower]

not when the area theyre in is the fucking underworks

[elfin ravine]

It only said benches and bellways

[autumn kettle]

why are you farming in the area that specifically gives no rosaries

[brave flower]

im specifically aiming for the tube next to 12th architect

[autumn kettle]

just leave the underworks

for five minutes

[brave flower]

yeah...

[autumn kettle]

to farm one of the farming spots

and then come back

[brave flower]

how many people do you think are gonna be radicalized against capitalism by the underworks

[hoary tulip]

like 1

[brave flower]

fair

[green bone]

||I think Im madder now knowing it was their death animation and not even a third phase switch||

||anyways boss done||

[thorny bear]

i mean

honestly i would be shocked if it was any

the area is pretty russia-coded, and the citadel is not capitalist

[hoary tulip]

that happened to me ONCE in Hollow Knight and it tilted me off the face of the planet

[green bone]

Which boss was it for you

[hoary tulip]

I forget, but I know a Hollow Knight boss explodes

[brave flower]

mostly im thinking abt the whole "you can barely get any rosaries and also benches cost rosaries per use" thing

[autumn kettle]

really? i can't think of any

[hoary tulip]

hmm

maybe not?

I have severe deathbomb paranoia

I could've sworn it was an enemy or boss in Hollow Knight but maybe it's something else?

I know a few enemies explode in Hollow Knight

[thorny bear]

fun gaming trivia:

In Castlevania Rondo of Blood, every boss has an attack with a big flashy animation they do when they die. You can't die to the attacks, you just get points for avoiding them, but score doesn't mean anything in that game.

Except the penultimate boss, who is very very difficult, will kill you with his death attack.

thankfully i already knew about that when i played

[hoary tulip]

FUCKING LMAO

BASED?!

[thorny bear]

very solid ludonarrative characterization that "wow, this wizard is a giant asshole"

[pallid shell]

Soul master was my fav hollow knight boss for similar reasons

[autumn kettle]

definitely a few enemies

just can't think of any bosses

[pallid shell]

So far in silksong my favorite boss is The Widow

[autumn kettle]

widow is super cool

[pallid shell]

I especially like the setup of

||“Hornet gets new powerups and crests by sticking her needle inside the bodies of a weaver and binding 3 times, but obliterates their body in the process”||

||And then the ending of a boss fight against a weaver being doing that while their still alive||

Is just so clever to me

[autumn kettle]

i suggest spoiling that

[pallid shell]

Oh sorry

[autumn kettle]

i know most people here are through act 1

but i don't think everyone is

[pallid shell]

I assumed the thread was spoilers active, due to my experience in other threads, but due to previous spoilered text I saw in the chat such a conclusion should have been logical to draw

[thorny bear]

aiui the intent is for everyone playing the game to discuss it, including people looking for advice as they're playing through

[pallid shell]

I see
Logical, sensible and sane

I am very sleepy

I should probably head off

[autumn kettle]

gn

[thorny bear]

i haven't really looked into the lore yet, but i wonder: ||is the true ending actually the best overall result for the world? It kinda sucks for Hornet, but the kingdom doesn't get decimated by void infestation, and Hornet would presumably be a good leader if silk doesn't make her evil||

[elfin ravine]

||Well the regular end has Pharloom fully enveloped in silk, so I figured the implication was that the Haunting basically got even worse ||

[autumn kettle]

||and she starts puppeting corpses as well iirc||

[thorny bear]

||i assumed that was just them temporarily reacting to the big shift in power, but that could be right. Do we know if the Haunting was caused by Grandmother Silk specifically or if it's caused by the silk itself?||

[autumn kettle]

||her directly||

[thorny bear]

||oh, i didn't notice/forgot about the corpses||

[autumn kettle]

||as a result of the citadel bugs injecting themselves with silk for longevity and other powers||

[thorny bear]

||like i don't think hornet is someone who would prolong the haunting if she is the one in charge of the silk||

||but i don't know the details of how it works, whether the monarch actually controls it||

[autumn kettle]

||yeah, i think hornet just gets too fucked up by the possession in base ending||

[hoary tulip]

||Grandmother Silk is a god that possesses Weaver bodies in order to enact her will, Hornet just becomes another vessel for her if you Bind her silk||

[thorny bear]

||so unlike hollow knight, normal ending doesn't make the world better at all?||

[hoary tulip]

makes it wayyyy worse probably

[green bone]

||Every single Choral Chamber room feels like a boss will smash down from the roof|| Act 2 early spoilers

[elfin ravine]

Haha

[hoary tulip]

can a vamp come up in yo crib

[open stratus]

Silly wondering:

How does Hornet draw and sheath her needle?

She's got it situated in that odd position (either at her side point diagonally forward-down or diagonally riding low behind her, below her main body depending on the sprite) that to draw and return would be awkward.

[vagrant spruce]

duct tape sheath on her back. just not visible

[autumn kettle]

held in two of her other arms

[open stratus]

... duh. She is god-spooder.

[vagrant spruce]

if you upgrade your needle all the way it actually reveals itself as telescoping

[hoary tulip]

why she only got 4 limbs when nekkid

[open stratus]

I kinda love this

[autumn kettle]

she's holding the rest behind her back

like in that clasped-hand disappointed aura farming pose

[hoary tulip]

fucking lmao

[open stratus]

My favorite fan art gives her little extra arms. 🙂

Extra armed Hornet is truth.

[elfin ravine]

Well the Scuttle Brace does show that she can have more arms

[open stratus]

Well yeah, she's a spider!

[hoary tulip]

she appears to be on all four with the scuttle brace ime

[vagrant spruce]

ok, to be fair, shape of unn showed that the knight in HK was actually a wiggling worm

so that's definitely emphasis on the "can" rather than the "have" lol

[green bone]

||Cogwork dancers remind me of that "Straight men arrested in Gay City for refusing to twerk" meme||

[inland wave]

Golly

fuck the ||High Halls||

Well, in particular that ||one tower leading to the Silk Spool||

[green bone]

also I hate these fucks

[open stratus]

Ooh, those are fun.

[vagrant spruce]

end of end of endgame true ending boss spoilers - do not click if you don't know you're there

||lost lace is a fun boss mechanically in the sense that i like all of her attacks. what i don't like is how she blends into her attacks + the background really well, and she keeps doing things like throwing circle blades & then teleporting to inside one of them to begin a new attack. i feel like her teleport is too fast, or her attack startups are too fast (as in she starts a new attack too quickly after teleporting, really). every hit I'm taking is because it's either an offscreen projectile or it's because she teleported and i lost track of where she went :(. black on black does not have the contrast for this. i think i've gotten to the final phase of her fight, and i haven't done that many tries on her yet, but jesus||

anybody else make it there / have other thoughts?

[inland wave]

hey is there a way to make ||Second Sentinel|| show up again if you happen to sprint headlong into an enemy that wasn't supposed to be awake already because you didn't know about this encounter and were at 2 hp and everything in this fucking game hits for that so you die

[vagrant spruce]

||yes, it's a random chance based event and has no bearing on any other future interactions with him. you cannot speak to him after those encounters or anything, he'll just bow slightly and leap away||

[sinful stirrup]

okay, the architect's charged down doing double damage is fascinating

plus the charged strike's range is good

[vagrant spruce]

yeah i think it's arguably the best crest, though i think ||shaman|| is slightly better personally

[sinful stirrup]

Oh, I think the dash attach has a charged version too,,,

It does!

Oh I think the dash is more hits, maybe

[hidden flame]

Would it kill TC to add a difficulty picker?

[sinful stirrup]

Jesus, flintslate charged drills twoshot senior reeds

[safe yew]

i feel you, though i will say it would be a nontrivial amount of work - it's possible they'd have to refactor a lot of enemy code to account for modifications to damage values or behavior

[hidden flame]

I am aware, just a little annoyed. Ah well

What's getting nerfed on SS?

[vagrant spruce]

i don't think they're nerfing anything about steel soul? if that's what you're asking

the patch that they pushed/has been in beta for a bit nerfs 2 early game bosses minorly (2 masks -> 1 mask for contact damage/some attacks, i think, but not all), and then the environmental spike damage in one area

[safe yew]

some benches are getting cheaper

on an unrelated note, did others find (early-mid act 2) ||mount fay|| especially hard? i'm curious as to the consensus on it

[vagrant spruce]

is that unique to steel soul? i'm pretty sure that's just a new change period

[hidden flame]

Sorry, S||plinter|| S||ister||

I'm in another Discord where we agreed to acronymise all areas and bosses for spoiler checks

[vagrant spruce]

oh, from what i heard it was just damage turned down

i've anecdotally noticed bosses/enemies seem to be divided into

• 1 mask for damage
• 2 masks for some attacks
• 2 masks for all attacks and also contact
  (i'm sure there's exceptions)

i'm pretty sure that boss is going from #3 to #2 rather than mechanic changes

[vagrant spruce]

||i found it annoying but not too difficult. the timing is pretty tight on some of the sections, but it wasn't really tight enough to kill me, just chunk for 3-4 hearts if i was slow or sloppy. but if you get the benches, the runbacks if you fuck it up aren't awful, so hey. fuck the long water room, though||

[open stratus]

I like the two pip damage attacks, you can generally tell which attacks will do multiple pips of damage by them having multiple strikes per attack or being exceptionally weighty and I find that very cool and a fun challenge to observe.

[vagrant spruce]

they're fun but you will reach a point where it gets really stale, considering how many things are a full 2 damage (on every attack/contact) enemy

i think i wouldn't have complained if it was just the weighty attacks, but the ones that are combo attacks (where it hits for 2 in rapid succession instead of instant) are a bit frustrating

[open stratus]

I've fought multiple bosses and enemies with them, it's fine?

At least so far in the middle of act 2

But then I'm an oddball

[vagrant spruce]

i think the environmental spikes being 2 damage is definitely overkill, at least

that patch killed one but i think there's a couple other areas that have it

[open stratus]

They're also easy to predict and avoid.

Every enemy except a few is very readable on how and where they're intending to strike

It's honestly impressive how readable enemies are.

[vagrant spruce]

yeah, i'd recommend playing some more - i think you'll just see what people are talking about when you hit the point where basically everything hits for 2 on the random attacks lol

[open stratus]

I'd say spikes shouldn't. But saws and the worms in Blasted Steps should.

[safe yew]

my opinion as it stands is that i'm up for some double damage, but also that the double damage can be laid on too thick at times

[torn sky]

I'm genuinely a fan of how a chunk of the early game basic enemies have double damage.

Like the guys with bells on a staff

Or the huge skull bug

Hollow Knight had a strong element of 'wait, double damage exists?' like halfway through the game.

[open stratus]

And it's easily avoidable if you stay aerial.

[torn sky]

A lot of the game feels like 'as long as I keep standing on your head/hovering about you, you can't get me' even with bosses. XD

[vagrant spruce]

those guys i'm chill with, i don't think those are the ones people are complaining about lol

[torn sky]

It's just the tricky thing of staying in the safe area

[open stratus]

On difficulty, why is Sinner's Road hard?

[vagrant spruce]

roaches :(

[open stratus]

Why?

Genuinely curious.

[vagrant spruce]

they're just annoying to deal with and hit for 2. it's not the most brutal area, though ||it has one really annoying platforming/challenge room||, but those guys are just particularly annoying for what they are

[open stratus]

Huh.

||Which room? Been through most of it.||

[vagrant spruce]

i don't think there's any areas overall that are particularly difficult at median, it's just that some areas are smaller than others or contain more difficult boss fights/arenas

[vagrant spruce]

||the mist|| subarea

[open stratus]

Aaah, yeah. That ones a toughie.

[vagrant spruce]

i did not like that section personally, though i respect its gimmick, simply because it got really old really quickly / the gimmick is not communicated well depending on where you are in the game

[torn sky]

As a really minor thing - I do like the term they used for various quests. 'Wish Promised/Wish Granted' etc. It gives a very fun tone that normal vernacular games use wouldn't have.

[open stratus]

I like it cause it's entirely optional, which helps with Hornet's character and growth over the course of the game.

She doesn't have to do them, she gives truckloads of excuses why she's not really helping these people with their random dreams, it's all about the reward etc.

Then she's pulling towns together, finding lost people, improving multiple settlements for no benefit to herself, learning names, doing that thing called friendship and admitting she kinda likes this helping people thing.

[vagrant spruce]

my 'really minor' favorite thing about the game is the hunter's journal entries :) i really like the ones that're like "I want to pet them but they're hostile :("

[open stratus]

Mhm!

Hornet may be eons old, but she still writes and internally monologues like a teenage girl.

[torn sky]

She is the true Forever 21.

[open stratus]

My favorite is the one where she's like "It's so cool how they glide across the water so gracefully! I'm cool! I could learn to do it too!"

Hunter's Journal Hornet feels passionately curious (and bloodthirsty) and joyful that she's getting to fulfill that curiosity (and bloodthirst).

[inland wave]

the windup on the roach command grab is a bit cursed, combined with the foreground blocking them half the time, and the damage, and the worms

that said loved ||prank bench 2: you wish this worked||

locked tf in for that side puzzle room

ohp wait chatscroll

[hollow elm]

Roaches teach you the hard way to respect a command grab, and sometimes it's better to just run.

[hidden flame]

My two favourite enemies so far are scissorboys and Flintbeetles

The latter purely for how cool their ||trail attack|| is

[rose granite]

This route worked well for me https://youtu.be/XGLakTPgS3Q?si=LemzEkl8lVd0kH0W

Took me three tries or so, but would've done it on the first if I didn't forget where to go in the final room lol (and thus accidentally ran into a wall).

[hollow elm]

(Act 2) I have reached "that fight", ||I've noticed there's still a lot left to explore, and power up with. Definitely seems intentional that it's an absurd ordeal on your first tries. Also getting more practice with deconstructing enemy movesets around Citadel as I restock on supplies (beads for shard packs).||

I'm really feeling the increased need for shards/shard packs in Act 2, but beads are flowing a lot more at the same time, I'll be drowning in loose beads soon.

[torn sky]

...hey so dumb question: What is Wanderer crest good at? It seems kinda...basic/not the best in a fight due to how short range the stabs are.

[hidden flame]

Brrrrrrrt

[hollow elm]

very fast swings, short endlag, ||random crits with 9 or more bars of silk held||.

[hidden flame]

Let's you multihit jump fights

[hollow elm]

Lets you downright disrespect some attacks because you swing fast enough to parry all the hits

[hidden flame]

Actually Normal Pogos

[hollow elm]

(I've been re-adjusting to more careful play after using Wanderer as my main option, since it can cancel out most/all of a rapid attack by mashing just right.)

[rose granite]

So my opinion may change here as I progress and new information is revealed, but whilst there is a love present I'm not wholly sure if it's a romantic love; Lawrence of Arabia being one person who comes to mind when it comes to that distinction. Hollow Knight spoilers ||what I've encountered so far, and this again may change, is something more akin mayhaps to the relationship between the Knight and the void in a way, which I'm sure will come up in Silksong too ;p.||

The tenderness is something which pervades things such that the question is more one of quality rather than the presence of love. In these contexts Lawrence happens to be a person I think about a lot, specifically due to his poem at the beginning of "Pillars of Wisdom". It's an intensely loving poem, a declaration of it in fact, yet as one digs into the life of the man and the people who knew and loved him in turn (including romantically) he ends up seeming to be ace; not due to any unawareness of homosexuality as many of his close friends were including one who lamented over Lawrence being ace despite himself having a huge crush on the man.

I'll see if my read on Hornet changes with time, but at least so far I read her as ace.

[hollow elm]

Main drawback I've ran into with Wanderer is needing much better dash/sprint/walk movement to get into/stay in range without crashing into 2-mask damage.
The short range sucks against flying enemies, not much ways around it without tools/movement upgrades.

[rose granite]

That there are queer themes and characters though there's no contesting ;p. I hope things go well for my poor ||mantis man||.

Oh yeah btw SnowViper, since you'd mentioned ||Clover dancers, I presume you also encountered the Green Prince's dialogue about Clockwork?||

[hollow elm]

Yepyep

[rose granite]

It's quite the exposition lol, but yeah I think that's the other part in that (so far) at least what I've come across with Hornet has never been quite desiring in a way they are. Will be interesting to reflect on it all later.

[torn sky]

That's fair. I've been using reaper mostly and it feels good.

[hidden flame]

Love me the Hollow Knight lore aystem

[torn sky]

I guess I should try wanderer

[rose granite]

Also that fucking poem by Lawrence has lived rent free in my head for years ;p.

[torn sky]

It at least starts with 2 yellow slots

I'm using all my 'open a slot' on getting a second yellow slot whenever I can. XD

As I find it hard to travel without compass + autocollect rosaries.

[rose granite]

Spoiler for later ||there is a range extending crest for your nail which makes Wanderer easier to use, but I like it even more on Reaper ;p||

[rose granite]

Also yeah, tis why I installed mods to have compass and magnet (for rosaries and shards) on permanently. It's largely quality of life and been quite nice.

[hidden flame]

Mods

Already?

[rose granite]

The magne one especially since instead of having a magnet for shards, they give you the charm for increased drop rate.

[rose granite]

I mean yeah, at this point games have their rather mature paratext so mods get made quickly.

[hidden flame]

Honestly, I'm impressed

What was funniest to me was the naked protagonist mod came out in like, 2 days

[rose granite]

Sinner's Road has a few different qualities to it that makes it a difficulty spike. ||The first is simply that roaches are bastards, whilst the other two are a combination of the maggot waters limiting healing coupled with it being one of the first areas many encounter that has you exclusively pogoing on spikes (and enemies ;p).||

Oh and that one bench lol.

Eventually it's not too bad, but within the context of where you may encounter it I think it's a fairly reasonable to call it a decent difficulty spike.

[dreamy scarab]

I found it last night (trying and failing to find ||Moorwing|| before the patch), and even from the first two rooms it seems bad. The number of hits it takes to kill the basic enemies makes me think I'm missing a weapon upgrade ||to say nothing of the platforming looking persnickety||

[rose granite]

It is easier once you get ||a weapon upgrade||, but the enemies in the first room are also a headache who are best avoided.

Beyond a journal entry the ||roaches|| are just not worth fighting.

[dreamy scarab]

Not clicking that just yet, but I'm guessing ||I'm missing a movement jump to make some of the transitions feasible. E.g. pogoing spikes kept knocking me into ceiling spikes||

[rose granite]

Not really I'm afraid. Such tech makes it easier, but isn't necessary.

Technically you have all you need already.

Note that you don't have to take that route though, and I'd probably recommend saving it til later.

[dreamy scarab]

mhm. it's definitely at the bottom of my priority queue. I'm finishing up a lap of the earlier areas now that I have the cling grab, then Bellhart, then I'll evaluate my options

[tacit wadi]

Act 3 spoilers

[wanton bone]

This reminds me (late act 2 spoilers) ||I wonder if Greyroot and the White Lady are related as weird tree things||

[forest jasper]

holy hell, the clockwork core OST goes hard

[rose granite]

Yeah, it's probably my favourite song in the game

[fathom shadow]

Why do the marrow and deep docks shake every now and then?

Is it just an unstable area or is there a reason?

[rose granite]

Think it's that it's an unstable, tectonically active area yeah

May be more to it, but that I haven't encountered yet

Wouldn't be surprised if the lava cools at some point, which I can say because I genuinely don't know if it will

[green bone]

I feel like Im fighting the sentient concept of a tiktok video ACT 2 SPOILERS

[dreamy scarab]

tiktok voice: boiling my [hornet] in oil! 🥰
(didn't click the spoiler)

[fathom willow]

lmao

[torn sky]

||Widow|| is an asshole. Not even a hard fight, just salty about the ||Doing the boss defeat burst of light/vanish and then blindsiding me by going 'psyche, final phase'||

[dreamy scarab]

I got slabbed ||I found the key of the indolent easily, but my only way forward feels like it requires an impossible jump? Unless I just beefed the pogo||

[brave flower]

||trrrobbio!!||

[inland wave]

I have to commend Cherry on how positively vile ||Bilewater/The Moorlands Generally Are. It's like they looked at Blight Town and said 'those toxic dart guys should respawn, actually'|| this is not sarcastic

[brave flower]

they really went "what if we made ||the nastiest poison swamp of all time||"

[rose granite]

Once you beat the boss ||and leave the room, turn around immediately and return to the scene and you should be in for a treat I believe||

[unreal spruce]

Am I the only one who feels that ||Last Judge||, aside from being a bit beefy and having an annoying runback is pretty good... except for the part ||where her death throes kill you and reset the fight. Like if it just killed you and you still counted as won, I think I'd be fine with that, but having to do the battle all over again is just demoralizing.||

[green bone]

happened to me

and no, it's the best part of the fight

its hilarious

[unreal spruce]

The ||dying|| part isn't so bad, it's the ||reset|| that feels sucky. HK didn't do that.

[brave flower]

its very in-character for the ||last judge||

"i will stop you from reaching the citadel by any means necessary. if you somehow make it past me that means you are worthy."

[rose granite]

Honestly I think even the runback is fine except they made the faster route a little too subtle.

Add a breakable wall, some red highlights, or something else to make it stick out a little more, and it's all good.

[autumn kettle]

i...don't think that's very subtle?

[brave flower]

ngl i never found that

[autumn kettle]

like sure, some yellow paint (coral crust) to loudly signal where to go would make it more obvious, but

[rose granite]

I am also specifically drawing attention to it here ;p.

[autumn kettle]

it's just directly on the path

[brave flower]

i just got really good at pogoing off that one judge and onto the bell

[rose granite]

And that's why it's a smaller change, to either mark it or put a breakable wall there to draw attention to it, because it's not a huge issue but something I think could be done differently.

[foggy cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/always-sunny-frank-oh-my-god-i-get-it-gif-22328165

[rose granite]

It's not some great design sin exactly, but did come to mind when during my own experience with the fight I did see if there was a runback route I'd missed (figured out the tunnel not too long after, so indeed there was one I'd missed) and the video that came up first doesn't take that route https://youtu.be/ApCEjQc5k0c?si=xGAuMzNTJenSsLFz

[foggy cipher]

i've finally made peace with the rosary economy

i get it now

i love intersections of mechanics and lore

[rose granite]

Have you arrived at ||Underworks||?

[foggy cipher]

yes lmao

i just got out

[hoary tulip]

yeah that's when it clicks

[foggy cipher]

and seeing the ||choral chambers|| enemies dropping like

four times the amount of rosaries

[rose granite]

It's probably the part of the game that realises it best, even if I think the two pilgrim merchants beforehand make it rather overt.

[hoary tulip]

That’s the moment you go ECONONY… and realize how Pharloom works as a society

[rose granite]

But it was nice seeing them pay off on what they'd already been establishing since the start with every rosary transaction.

At least I did find the dialogue with the Bone merchant and the one at Pilgrim's rest (especially with the door you have to pay for to use) to be rather clear.

[autumn kettle]

yeah it's fucked

love it

[foggy cipher]

that and getting fucked out of my money by the ||confessional||

[autumn kettle]

lmfao

yeah

it's just

truly and utterly despicable

[foggy cipher]

incredible bit but it made me so MAD

[brave flower]

the underworks truly are the rudest area in the game

its incredible

[hoary tulip]

It dawns on you pretty fucking quickly that Pharloom is a giant oppression machine designed to milk the labor out of a massive underclass to prop up Dracula’s motherfucking castle

[foggy cipher]

funny enough that actually sums up my feeling on the game as a whole so far, i understand and appreciate all the well-made game design stuff but FUUUUCK

[foggy cipher]

definitely my least favorite, fuck those saws

[brave flower]

no i love the underworks

[foggy cipher]

i don't because i suck at platforming

[hoary tulip]

There are exactly two attitudes towards Metroidvanias and their map designs

[brave flower]

they really hammer home how wretched the citadel is the moment that fuckass elevator breaks

[hoary tulip]

“This sucks, I hate it here”

[brave flower]

and "this sucks, i love it here"

[hoary tulip]

And “I love how much it sucks here, I wish it would suck more”

[autumn kettle]

this is me

[brave flower]

no actually i do not wish the underworks sucked more

[hoary tulip]

I kinda do

[foggy cipher]

me in ||sinners road||

[autumn kettle]

i wish the whole game sucked more

[hoary tulip]

There’s such a wild spread of different kinds of cool challenge that Silksong throws at you actually

[autumn kettle]

i want it to beat the shit out of me harder

[brave flower]

i wish there was another underworks accessed later that was all the cruelty of the underworks dialed up to 11

[hoary tulip]

Sinner’s Road is a stealth zone

[hoary tulip]

Okay real

[foggy cipher]

i would cry (it would likely be peak)

[brave flower]

the underworks are perfect at their role of being an introduction to the citadel

maybe my favorite zone so far on account of how perfect it is at what its meant to be

[hoary tulip]

There’s too many based zones for me to decide from

I wish there was more Voltnest

[autumn kettle]

same

[brave flower]

choral chambers is also really good

[autumn kettle]

i wish the voltnest was a whole area

[brave flower]

wormways are like

[hoary tulip]

Okay hot take incoming

[brave flower]

maybe my least favorite zone

[hoary tulip]

Wormways in Act 1-2 sucks actually

BUT

It gets a devious upgrade

[autumn kettle]

based and true

[brave flower]

idk theyre super uncomfy to navigate but then you realize you can hit the ceiling worms and they give you silk so ur literally never in actual danger

i can only imagine what act 3 wormways are like

[hoary tulip]

I just think that it’s a dry, one-note zone with a limiting gimmick and a cardboardy aesthetic

Act 3 otoh

[foggy cipher]

WHY IS IT SO BIG

[brave flower]

its just deepnest but less awesome

[hoary tulip]

Absolutely overhauls the area and makes it goated

[brave flower]

act 1-2 wormways is deepnest but they took the really funny part of deepnest and stuck it in other zones

[hoary tulip]

The thing about Deepnest is that it’s a banger area in Hollow Knight because they took concepts usually reserved for Bozo’s Clown House of Funny Tricks and recontextualized them to make you shit yourself and have nightmares

[brave flower]

(||evil bench||)

[brave flower]

yeah deepnest is awful

it rules

[hoary tulip]

Whereas Silksong’s Wormways is like

A deliberate setup-payoff thing

[foggy cipher]

best HK area

it's so horrible

[hoary tulip]

It’s a dry, chewy area because that’s what they’re establishing as the foundation for their payoff later

It’s very “this place is ass and I have no reason to return” -> 20hrs later “I guess I have to go back WHAT THE FUCK”

[brave flower]

hornet... i remember you're ||B L U E||

[hoary tulip]

the use of worldstate in Silksong is actually primo

it's kino even

[south marten]

Ari and William heard "Hollow Knight isn't a real soulslike because there's no poison swamp" and took it personally

[foggy cipher]

||:((((||

[brave flower]

what are yalls thoughts abt the worm dogs in sinners road

[lapis siren]

fuck roaches

[autumn kettle]

bad ouppy

[foggy cipher]

peak

[fathom shadow]

HATE HATE HATE

[elfin ravine]

wondering which form of the ||Silk Shot|| I should go for

currently tending towards the Mt Fay one

[brave flower]

thats the strongest one

[lost brook]

.....Are fleas just their kids

Like

The guys that run the circus and the pup bugs are both fleas

Do they just start as puppy and then

Turn into people as they grow up

[autumn kettle]

seems like

[lost brook]

....damn

Pupdeath.....

[brave flower]

i love the flea noises

awoo!

this game has so many adorable little creatures in it

[tacit wadi]

Theyre so much cuter than IRL

[autumn kettle]

most things in hollow knight are

[thorny bear]

you know what's going to be really brutal

||twisted child|| speedruns

[autumn kettle]

i can't wait for the first sickos to route the all achievements run

because that means

you need to route like

||twisted child|| any% and then steel soul 100%

christ

yeah the more i think about it

Cursed™ Any%, then steel soul 100% finishing the journal and getting ||mister mushroom|| is gonna take a while

endurance test

tougher one than hk's, for sure

[rose granite]

I have acquired baby

[vagrant spruce]

was all achievements ever popular in HK? i feel like hunter's mark in there, while easier, woudl still have made it pretty niche

[wanton bone]

I think it was the longest of the actually competitive runs. You had various "single-challenge" runs like PoP or Pantheon stuff, any %, true ending, 112%, and then All Achievements.

[vagrant spruce]

hm, actually on thinking about it it's not that different from a hypothetical steel soul 112% - since the only addition would be doing the other endings + mushroom + journal, and people ran that

[autumn kettle]

it was never popular, but it was absolutely a real run that people routed and played

[wanton bone]

And then you saw stuff like low%, or Great Hopper.

Which were fully in the catagory of "random challenges that people timed"

[vagrant spruce]

yeah, i guess my definition is just "was the routed run well optimized, execution wise" rather than the routing itself, if that makse sense

[autumn kettle]

it was definitely actively routed

dunno how well optimized, but a number of people did do optimization

[vagrant spruce]

neat. i'll have to check it out - now that i've finished silksong fully, before i run it back for the completionist/harder achievements that'll require a guide (i'm missing 11 guys in the hunter's journal and like 50 more to "finish"), i'm finally free to watch silksong speedruns

so once i get tired of those i can switch to that lol

[dreamy scarab]

Having now found one piece of inconsequential dialogue, I'm going to end up rubbing the ||needolin|| on every suspicious looking prop in the game. (You can hear a song in ||the graveyard with the rosary-swinging pilgrim at the west end of Shellwood||)

[fathom willow]

(boss from act 3 spoilers) I remembered ||I have parry equipped|| for once

[tacit wadi]

Love the Parry skill

[vagrant spruce]

sick kill, especially with the barbed tool on

[elfin ravine]

trying to track down all lockets rn

I'm only missing one now

[autumn kettle]

time to boot up the ol map, probably

[elfin ravine]

I have

But finding out which exactly I'm missing is still taking a while

[autumn kettle]

understandable

[elfin ravine]

ah, found it

[autumn kettle]

nice

which one was it?

[elfin ravine]

in Blasted Steps actually

[autumn kettle]

huh

[brave flower]

alr where are some good spots to farm rosaries

im one massive shopping spree away from ||architect||

[autumn kettle]

screen east of halfway home

[brave flower]

thats what ive been using yeah

[autumn kettle]

or grand reeds east of dancers

[brave flower]

hmm

[rose granite]

I like the grand reeds a lot.

Since they're fairly tame to fight but still fun

[brave flower]

i think greymoors prolly better bc tmk the grand reeds dont drop shards

so i cant just spam tools at them