THE SILKSONG IS REAL

[thorny bear]

it's kinda wild how Super Metroid is still one of the only games in the genre to give you a late game ability to see where breakable walls are to make backtracking for completion more painless

[brave flower]

stupid ass ||moorwing||

[autumn kettle]

nah

you only need glide for one check

||and then you can come back like three times for progressively more bullshit||

||but initially you have access to a merchant, a crest, and an npc buddy||

[thorny bear]

wait there's a ||merchant|| there??

[sinful stirrup]

Yeah, he's really hidden

In the ||unguarded store room, there's an invisible wall half way up||

[autumn kettle]

yeah

[thorny bear]

my first playthrough of hollow knight was a long time ago, and it hasn't been an issue in replays of course,
but man, making so many important room entrances hidden on the map is annoying

[primal cedar]

Oh man ||Lace|| is really fun to fight. 6 billion parries

[wanton bone]

God yeah. One of my complaints with Hollow Knight at least is how hard it is to 100% without the wiki or otherwise crowdsourced information.

[primal cedar]

Huh. I don't know if that was just easy or if I just locked the fuck in for that fight

[sinful stirrup]

Lace isn't too hard, but she's a fun challenge

[dense grove]

I am still stupid, I can't find it lol

[autumn kettle]

bottom green

[dense grove]

I am vewy smart

[primal cedar]

Far Field? LANCER FAR FIELD MENTIONED LESGO

[elfin ravine]

...wait I still need to pay shards for the ||lifeblood|| as well, in addition to having to pay for total charges?

[rose granite]

Did happen to see that the map genie folk have apparently already made a map for most of the stuff in the game, which is impressively fast, but I agree with Serval about how it's surprising that Super Metroid is one of the only to have stuff like a detector for breakable walls.

[rose granite]

Haven't thought about it, but wouldn't surprise me.

[elfin ravine]

-_-

[brave flower]

this damn bird

[elfin ravine]

the ||Bilewater|| arena is tilting me incredibly hard rn tbh

[brave flower]

ive understood how to dodge each of its attacks for like 10 attempts

[rose granite]

Did go and download the mods I mentioned earlier, and have to admit that the shard magnet alone is making me have zero regrets over it ;p.

[elfin ravine]

why do I have to go this goddamn far to even get there, plus getting hit with maggots at least once along the way

||and then go through a long ass arena, plus a boss, while contending with maggots again the whole time||

[brave flower]

i think the problem is that the windows in which you can heal change in phase 2

[safe yew]

need pointers on progressing involving the area above greymoor. (act 1) ||i'm told the sinner's road is the start of an alternate path to the citadel and i'd like to use said alternate path, but as far as i can tell i've explored everything in it that doesn't need a double jump, and the part with the double jump doesn't seem to lead to any more areas. am i missing something?||

[elfin ravine]

||there's a secret entrance to another area in the rightmost tall room||

[thorny bear]

it is definitely not the route I would recommend

[hollow elm]

I guess the intended (non-mod) alternative is using beads on shard packs, seems significantly more convenient as you find places to farm beads.

[rose granite]

I can think of a few different intentions, but I'll admit that understanding those don't make me agree with them for my own experience.

To me it largely just added busywork

[hollow elm]

Yeeeea

[rose granite]

||The one that seems to require a double jump, or a different one?||

||Assuming a different one||

okay yeah that's a different one

[hollow elm]

I will say I'm light on tool use, and can easily see it turning obnoxious in later areas.

[autumn kettle]

close...

and getting closer

i've done three fucking things that all didn't count as a %

which is wack

[rose granite]

Mm, it's rough with ||cogflys for example, which I think require 10 shards per use||

[brave flower]

FIRST ATTEMPT POST-DINNER

LETS GO

[autumn kettle]

nice

third goober complete

also not even remotely as tough as the first

also not a completion%!

fucking deranged

[thorny bear]

they should really just put a decimal point in it

instead of assigning every thing to either 1% or 2%

[elfin ravine]

for reference, it costs me a bit over a hundred shards to replenish my tools on my current tries

also, I fucking despise the maggots so much

it is actually tilting the fuck out of me rn

[wanton bone]

Do you happen to have a link?

[thorny bear]

what do you mean, permanent poison attacks are always everyone's favorite mechanic in every game that has them

[elfin ravine]

plus the fact that I can't afford to actually keep replenishing my tools, plus the incredibly long run-up to this arena

[thorny bear]

truly breaking new ground by having a boss fill the screen with projectiles that not only do 2 damage each, but also negate 3 healing each

personally I just don't find using tools worth the mental processing power, outside of encounters where a certain one is really effective

[elfin ravine]

this fight and the cook in Sinner's have so far tilted me so much more than almost any other thing

[thorny bear]

I'm just operating under the assumption that the cook is optional

[elfin ravine]

yes, sort of

[thorny bear]

because I really really really do not want to fuck with that

[elfin ravine]

it is required for nail upgrade

[severe swift]

Yay... a ||Prison level that strips you of all your gear... fun..||

[brave flower]

well i made it to ||the bellhart||

now what

[thorny bear]

keep going west

[brave flower]

i did

[elfin ravine]

there's a new movement upgrade in that area

just keep looking around

[brave flower]

oh ok

[thorny bear]

in the||northeast|| portion of that area

[rose granite]

Sure, do be warned that it contains all the spoilers, quite literally, but I was fine using it to check off mask fragments and similar stuff https://mapgenie.io/hollow-knight-silksong/maps/pharloom

[severe swift]

Oh and there's a|| key puzzle.|| Yay

[elfin ravine]

||Bilehaven|| is actually making me so mad, I fucking hate this

[brave flower]

i went so far west i am now in the fucking wormways

[elfin ravine]

go up

[rose granite]

Just got there myself, so we'll see how it goes lol.

Though that is for tomorrow and not today for me.

[rose granite]

The ||cogfly one is admittedly nice because it requires no mental bandwidth to use, but yeah it's also very shard hungry.||

Think I'll just aim for the next nail upgrade, explore some areas, and then start taking down the various parts I've left be one by one.

[brave flower]

i ran into ||sister splinter||

is that too far or is that the next thing im meant to do

[elfin ravine]

that's it

[brave flower]

fuck

[rose granite]

You've got this!

Nah but I've come to accept that Silksong is a game that does well with some pauses and exploring here and there at times, because fuck if this ain't a difficult one.

Still fun tho

[dense grove]

Early game boss spoilers ||MOORWING AIN'T SHIT!!!||

[rose granite]

Especially the telegraphed boss fights that end up just being about execution.

[dense grove]

||ONE HEALTH AND A DREAM YOU STUPID RAG-MOTH!!!||

[severe swift]

I died in the prison section and now I don't have my clothes.... I think I genuinely just softlocked myself

[rose granite]

||Clockwork dancers is probably one of my favourites so far||

[rose granite]

You haven't

[severe swift]

no like, I got my clothes back but died right after I killed the boss.

and now my clothes are gone again

[rose granite]

Ah ok, that's a different case. Hm, suppose you can go back and check if the boss is there? But if not, uh, bug report and a prayer?

If you are hard-locked, that sucks.

[severe swift]

I just tried restarting it, definitely hardlocked, lmfao

Awesome.

[dense grove]

location spoilers ||Oh... this isn't evocative of spiders at all. Totally not drawing a comparison between religion and a spider ensnaring prey in a web, no sirree||

[rose granite]

||It is a bit overt lol, but I like it||

[autumn kettle]

||AND THEY'RE ALL COWARDS||

[rose granite]

I will say that the art direction for the game continues to excel

[autumn kettle]

it's gorgeous

[rose granite]

Something that I do find a bit funny in retrospect ||is that whilst I do really like the flavour of the Underworks having next to no rosaries whilst having everything require money, it's still not the area with the fewest of them.||

[severe swift]

https://twistedvoxel.com/hollow-knight-silksong-known-issues-and-how-to-fix-them/

The Slab escape is a permanent known hardlock. At least a patch is coming through but damn... this sucks.

Honestly this is like... the cherry on top of a frankly miserable experience I was having.

[autumn kettle]

sorry to hear that

maybe it's time to just drop the game unless things change?

bugs or not, nothing wrong with a game not being for everyone

[rose granite]

Yeah, if you do enjoy most of the game and largely want an easier time there are some mods for that (saw them when I went to get the magnet and map ones), but I do think this is a game that's just frankly very difficult.

And thus wouldn't be surprised to have it cause burnout; certainly did for me almost at the section that seemed to be the natural point of progression.

[severe swift]

There is apparently a way through. All I have to do is unlock a crest.

[autumn kettle]

no crests lock prog

[brave flower]

wow the worst thing about this fight is the damn adds

if i coyld consistently never get hit by the boss itd be easy bc i could just spear the adds

[rose granite]

That really doesn't narrow it down y'know

[autumn kettle]

||beastfly?||

[rose granite]

Oh wait no there's actually one fight where the adds are great ||The mossmothers twin fight||

It's such a stupid fight

[autumn kettle]

there aren't a ton of fights with adds tho

[rose granite]

At least if we aren't counting the arena ones.

[autumn kettle]

it's like...||splinter, beastfly, mossy pets, uhhhh||

i know more than that

[rose granite]

But the one you mentioned is the most prominent

[autumn kettle]

||oh yeah double conchflies||

...does that one count?

the adds are more "an attack" and then they leave

[thorny bear]

i'm very fascinated by there being no cocoon from defeat in ||first sinner|| arena

[autumn kettle]

||it's a dream! i think||

and also isn't that boss so fucking cool?

god i love her

[dense grove]

Oh it's fuckin great

[thorny bear]

also don't know if you did this

[brave flower]

||sister splinter||

[thorny bear]

but her ||needolin|| dialogue after beating her is fascinating

||Cursed by Silk||
||Cursed to know||
||The sin, the truth||
||I did not wane!||

[thorny bear]

and yeah, very good boss

[rose granite]

Case in point I suppose haha, since we were talking about a different boss. But yeah I feel you, I just bursted down the adds in that fight.

Thinking about it, much as I've struggled with various fights in the game, I've largely enjoyed them still with my main struggles oft being some minor stuff.

The fights I've not quite gelled with have generally been the ones that can be best described by this room. Not super hard per se, but multiple enemies in a cramped area is rough on my poor ol' brain.

Still, fun combat overall. Though I am curious ||how many people here use the harpoon during combat? I've wanted to like it, but using it there seems like a surefire way to get hit unless it's to catch an aerial foe||

[autumn kettle]

what the fuck

i thought i was done with new bullshit

i just got this from ||a sign a craw posted at the bilewater bellway||

[brave flower]

I JUST BEAT ||SPLINTER|| HITLESS

[autumn kettle]

||when i relogged||

[fathom shadow]

Hell yea.

Just beat her too. And the ||Widow|| aswell.

[rose granite]

Hype!!!

[autumn kettle]

holy fuck

i just got ||mini fireball||

it's a gun

alright

learned about another new area i don't think i'd have ever fucking discovered on my own

good lord

[inland wave]

I feel like I haven't gotten a new upgrade in like two years

I have been meandering the Citadel killing things for ages

'oh, a side path!' and then 25 shell shards for my trouble, golly

[rose granite]

Oh yeah, did you find the key in ||the white surgery place?||

[proud cobalt]

Y'all think the unofficial Hollow Knight TTRPG is gonna get a Silksong Extension or Sequel? Or it just won't happem?

[rose granite]

I assume you did

[rose granite]

Probably best to just ask them directly.

[proud cobalt]

That would be a good idea, if I was motivated enough to do so.

Fair enough though.

[rose granite]

They're the only ones who can give you an answer that's based on more than nothing.

[proud cobalt]

True.

Also to feed my chainsaw obsession ||Sadly there are no chainsaws in Silksong, however all the difficult engineering required to make one literally exists in game, it's just the individual pieces.||

[brave flower]

found ||weaver||

[rose granite]

Y'know, just came to think about the poor sods who'll try to steel soul this game. Said sods are likely going to be able to make it if they're the type to try it in the first place, but still.

[inland wave]

Whoever designed ||the underworks|| should be pushed down some patio stairs

Not a big hit but they should really hurt their knee

[proud cobalt]

It's definitely called Steel Silk.

[rose granite]

I kinda liked that area apart from one fight.

||the arena fight specifically||

[inland wave]

It's just a mess of doors that don't open

Two-damage traps

and empty chambers

[rose granite]

I'll admit that I don't see much reason for having the traps deal two damage no.

[inland wave]

love going down a prolonged challenging tunnel to get

literally nothing

like is this weird bug corpse some lore

because i'm not parsing it

[rose granite]

Still, I did like the flavour of the place.

[primal cedar]

Got to fighting the [mid-game??]|| Moorwing boss, and unlock the reaper crest. I like the heavy downslash, much more floaty aerial combat feel||

Boss seems relatively easy but maybe it has a nasty phase 2 in there

[inland wave]

That one feels like The Spacing Tutorial

[primal cedar]

...oh. I see the pain. But I can get through this

Wait holy shit the ||reaper dash attack is an uppercut?!? that's so fucking cool||

[autumn kettle]

yeah it goes hard

[wanton bone]

I will say that having mid game semi-elite enemies with a moveset remarkably reminiscent of Hornet 1 is evil.

[rose granite]

So minor spoiler ||but you're still in the early game; that's what Act 1 is.||

[rose granite]

I kinda like a fair few of the elite enemies, aside from ||Conductor man with the three golden beetles||

That guy is the worst

[brave flower]

from what i can tell, ||act 1 is earlygame, act 2 is midgame, and act 3 is animal well||

[rose granite]

Not even knowing what happens in the story beyond where I am, since much as I've been fine with collectibles information I do keep away from story stuff beyond what YouTube decides to randomly show my thumbnails of ;p, I've been assuming that that's basically the case yeah.

Pretty typical for this kind of game.

[primal cedar]

Ok On Contact take 2 damage is mean as hell

[rose granite]

I've got bad news for you my friend

[primal cedar]

I am scared now

[rose granite]

You don't want to know how long it's taken me to get to 7 masks lol.

[inland wave]

"You touched A Slightly Wide Guy, die now"

[primal cedar]

Touching the bug in SS = getting blasted by the sun in HK

[inland wave]

Hornet has aphenphosmphobia..

[somber smelt]

shoutout to those big skull lugs in the marrow

[inland wave]

what is silk if not a strand type game

[rose granite]

Skull guys are great

[somber smelt]

scariest shit imaginable when Some Guy just knocks you for 2 masks in the first real area of the game

[rose granite]

Well most of them

[primal cedar]

||double chainsaw attack is a bitch but I think I figured out how to dodge. Jump the first, float until second, dash toward boss to avoid uppercut saw||

[proud cobalt]

It took quite a while for 2 mask damage to appear in HK, in SS it was within the first 10 minutes if you're keeping a slow but steady pace

[rose granite]

Yeah, it's not a complex fight inasmuch as just having little room for mistake.

[somber smelt]

feels like every fight in this game lmao

everybody only has like three attacks, but Good Luck

[proud cobalt]

A youtuber I watched took 40 minutes.

Which is fine, but wow.

[somber smelt]

I spent like 2 and a half hours total on ||moorwing||

went to bed, woke up, picked up the game again and beat it second attempt

wild how it goes

[primal cedar]

Ok figured out all the attacks and dodge patterns. Now just proper execution

[rose granite]

Quite common, funny how the brain works.

[proud cobalt]

Tbf the youtuber I was watching got to that boss first day so by that point they were a bit rough, but yeah.

Fightin Cowboy is their name.

[rose granite]

Mm, the best ones I find are reminiscent of Sekiro where you know what's coming but get got because you didn't execute well enough.

[somber smelt]

At some point you just have a boss muscle memory'd but are fumbling from the pressure

[rose granite]

Well aside from a certain boss ||Moorwing||

[proud cobalt]

I wonder how long it takes before you can finally upgrade your needle, it didn't feel like it took that long to find the nailsmith in HK.

[rose granite]

Pretty much.

[somber smelt]

or the boss is Bullshit ||beastfly you bastard||

[rose granite]

The first and second upgrades take a bit but shouldn't be too bad. The third one is quite something.

[hollow elm]

I think Silksong intentionally makes the first nail upgrade a massive trek to really put focus on using tools/silk.

[somber smelt]

it's insane how the hardest bosses in this game are 'big guys that run directly at you a lot'

[rose granite]

What I'm coming away from with this game in terms of combat is that I don't think I quite like it for chaotic multi-entity fights in tight rooms.

Chaotic fights can be fun, but it does enjoy arenas a lot more than I do personally.

There are so many arenas

[somber smelt]

The fight arenas have been pretty tough for me with the notable exception of ||the coral flies||, which i quite liked
I think they aren't like, Bad persay, I quite like the deep docks ones
But basic enemies are just overall more complex in this game and it's really hard to juggle attack patterns

[hollow elm]

Hell in a Cell encounters feel like a DPS/equip check in one aspect, since it gets out of control fast with larger enemies.

[rose granite]

Though I did get to feel proud over getting to an area earlier than I should've been able to, because I noticed you could retain just enough height to not need a double jump (don't know if the game has a double, but suspect it does or some equivalent).

[rose granite]

Yeah, that's kinda why I don't like them

[somber smelt]

There's a lot of cramped rooms with big enemies and ranged guys and whatnot and it's Hard to juggle

Unless you happen to have a spell or tool that you use well enough to eliminate before it gets out of control

[wanton bone]

Yeah. The bosses don’t feel way more complex than hollow knight, but the random enemies are markedly more complex.

[rose granite]

This arena is specifically the one I'm saving for as late as I can, and where I suspect I'm going to run the highest risk of burning out on the game.

With more damage I'm sure it's a ton easier, but I kinda wish that weren't the solution.

[autumn kettle]

i didn't find it too bad

[rose granite]

I mean I did so I'm just speaking for myself.

Though you did also mention having Nail 4 against it I think.

[somber smelt]

shoutout to that first ||hunter's march|| combat room

those fuckin flyers are Impossible to catch

[elfin ravine]

speaking of nail upgrades
I need some direction for finding some of the ingredients
the ||Crust Nut and Vintage Nectar||

[somber smelt]

I dunno how I would've done half the fights i have without that ||threepin|| tool

[rose granite]

The latter of those can be found at ||halfway||

Former I don't know

[elfin ravine]

thanks

[fathom willow]

My b (Co. Co. area spoilers)

[rose granite]

Aw, that sucks.

At least you can have revenge later by letting them bump into eachother. They're positioned such that usually when they both charge at you the back one collides with the front before they get ya.

It's consistent enough that I've wondered if it's intentional.

[thorny bear]

i definitely advise against that tool, outside of a special situation like farming money

[fathom willow]

How can I say no to such power

[rose granite]

Oh lmao I thought you meant the red ones for a second and was wondering why they were so bad.

[autumn kettle]

yeah

[proud cobalt]

Crazy how Ghost/Vessel is the Magician and Hornet is the Tool Master/Gadgetier.

[primal cedar]

Moorwing down

[autumn kettle]

i mean, it's what they were made for

[proud cobalt]

True.

[autumn kettle]

it's a creature of raw soul and pure void

shoved together

and as we see with the snail shamans

they love both soul and void

[proud cobalt]

I guess yeah, even excluding the void part itself, the raw soul is a caster thing.

[rose granite]

That does align with what was being said before then, which is that damage tends to make encounters like it a ton more manageable. My issue was in large part coming to it as ||the first of the three routes|| whilst I suspect it's moreso suited to be on the opposite end.

[autumn kettle]

ahh, yeah

i did it ||second, with vault and whiteward first||

[rose granite]

Which I'll admit I'm not a super big fan of things being in part a dps check. Most of it is still manageable, honestly I suspect all of it would be based on where I'm at aside from the guys in the picture I showed.

Because, well, if ya can't kill one of them immediately it gets very difficult for me at least (one is more than manageable).

[autumn kettle]

i think ||some of the aoe traps like pimpillos and sting shards also make it drastically easier||

[rose granite]

Neither of which I have I don't believe, craftsmetals went elsewhere, but the alternatives I do have did admittedly work well too so not really an issue there.

Though tool damage does scale off of your needle too, doesn't it?

[autumn kettle]

can't fucking believe i missed this

[autumn kettle]

p sure it scales off of your tool damage upgrades

[somber smelt]

yee

[rose granite]

Don't think I've seen any of those yet?

Which doesn't mean it's wrong, just haven't spotted them at all.

[somber smelt]

||There's one at the Forgedaughter, dunno past that||

[autumn kettle]

doesn't ||forgedaughter|| sell one right off the bat?

yeah what derp said

[elfin ravine]

it's the crafting tools

also, what do I do now that I have the ||Witch|| crest?

to make it normal

[brave flower]

i think im ||one purple flower away from the witch crest||

[autumn kettle]

||find yarnaby||

[elfin ravine]

who?

[autumn kettle]

you are about 60% of the game too early for that

[brave flower]

oh

[rose granite]

Ah the crafting kits, okay yeah they got combined with tool pouches in the UI so just been assuming they're one and the same.

[autumn kettle]

||someone in greymoor||

[elfin ravine]

okay, guess I'll go looking

oh I see now

I had forgotten about that guy

[autumn kettle]

okay

getting closer

still uh

a lot of achievements to go

i'm missing one fucking mask shard

and one memory locket

[elfin ravine]

the crest is interesting though

no yellow slots is a little annoying, but the attacks are nice

also does ||it only heal you if you hit something with the tentacles?||

[rose granite]

Just realised why I assumed tools scaled off of the needle; I'd been noting it for skills and had for some reason just assumed tools were the same for some reason.

Silly mistake.

[lapis siren]

I love this guy so funny

[autumn kettle]

she's great

[brave flower]

i adore the bell beast

[lapis siren]

I really didn't expect to see hornet nude

multiple times

[autumn kettle]

i'm currently fighting fucking ||punished trobbio||

this boss is ridiculous

in every way

i love him

i loathe him

but mostly love

[gusty storm]

I love that one of his main vocal lines is just ||his own name. like. 'TROBBIO!!!!! :D'||

[autumn kettle]

basically all of em are

[gusty storm]

I'm mainly thinking of the specific way he says it when the fight starts

[brave flower]

WHAT

[wanton bone]

Can’t wait for people with too much time on their hands to start making videos of doing random parkour areas with ||Beast Crest||

[thorny bear]

how important is the arena ||in bilewater that's ten miles from the nearest bench and has a new boss after all the waves of obnoxious enemies||

because i do not want to do that if i don't have to

and it looks like the only thing it leads to is an area i already completed

[elfin ravine]

it has something important, but only for much later into the game

if you already have the connection from ||Waterways|| you should already have the key in that area IIRC

[thorny bear]

it's annoying how many of the walls in hunter's march make the sound of a breakable wall but aren't actually breakable

when the main premise of a game is hitting walls to try and find a way to progress, you'd think they would make it a bit less confusing

[formal zenith]

ugh im really not enjoying the ||sister splinter|| fight
i feel like i've gotten a bit better at dealing with the adds but i just keep making stupid mistakes and losing all of my health in 10 seconds

i don't know if i have the patience for this -_-

[thorny bear]

yeah the bosses with 2 damage attacks that can knock you into another 2 damage attack are brutal

but the attacks are reasonably telegraphed, so once you get into a pattern you can get through them

the important thing is to keep your cool and know when to focus on attacking and when to focus on evading

[formal zenith]

i mean i don't have an issue with her attacks, it's the adds that keep screwing me up

[hollow elm]

I've found ||Sting Shard for anti-air softening||, and ||baiting the boss into attacking adds|| can help a lot. The boss is surprisingly soft, but hits like hell.

[formal zenith]

idk it's not happening tonight, i'm too frustrated now

[brave flower]

my strategy was pretty much like

save your silk to oneshot the adds as fast as possible

if the ||arena gets too full of barriers, use a silk spear to clear em out but also try to hit the boss with it||

basically whenever you get the opportunity to hit the boss and something else thats causing problems with one spear, that's probably a good spear to use

[formal zenith]

hmmmm i hadn't thought of ||using silkspear on the vines||
i just get paranoid about using silk in boss fights bc i feel like i always need to be able to heal

[brave flower]

yeah that was messing me up for a while

the secret for this fight specifically is you basically wont need to heal if the adds dont last very long

||reaper crest|| also makes this fight ten times easier bc when you DO heal ||youll get a lot of silk refunded from just slapping the boss bc shes very stationary, so you're more likely to be able to use silkspear on the adds||

my successful attempt was one where i took literally no damage the entire fight besides i think like getting clipped by a vine at one point

bc the boss is super easy to dodge and i stayed on top of killing the adds

its a weird fight but honestly a cool one

bc the strategy by which i beat it felt very different from everything else in the game so far

this is a fight where, in a sense, you want to get very greedy

[formal zenith]

thanks for the advice
i'll try again another day, hopefully it works out

[hollow elm]

||I didn't really use silk on the vines after noticing Sister Splinter targets you directly. Baited her to the edges, and used dash to get out of the way + switch sides faster.||

[brave flower]

oh also the attempt where i won was the first attempt after drinking a ton of water

and the attempt on which i beat ||moorwing|| was the first attempt after getting dinner

[brave flower]

(to clarify, not in the sense of "facetank the boss", she does 2 damage per hit, that is not feasible in the slightest, but in the sense of "silk is better used for oneshotting the bullshit she puts on the screen rather than for healing")

i sure hope the mindset i fostered in order to beat that fight will not immediately bite me in the ass

https://bsky.app/profile/tobyfox.undertale.com/post/3lyc3xanp5c2c

tobyfox (@tobyfox.undertale.com)

Reposts

1336

Likes

5438

Replies

128

Bluesky · Sep 8, 2025, 1:55 AM

[proud cobalt]

Loomers in the 1900s.

[hollow elm]

I've heard of that mindset in Hollow Knight too, better to spend 1/3 meter to clear enemies, than hold onto soul and get hit anyways in a longer fight.

[brave flower]

(the joke here is that it did, i found ||widow|| who is immediately back to being a boss who needs you to play patient)

[brave flower]

yeah when theres adds its a good idea to get rid of them

the less things on the screen you have to worry about the easier it is to keep your cool

[elfin ravine]

still can't seem to find my way into ||The Slab||

and it seems I have lost my chance to be kidnapped

[open stratus]

The Weavers are so cool.

Sorry. Really enjoy the worldbuilding so far.

[thorny bear]

yeah it is very very annoying to access

could someone please point me in the right direction to get to this section of blasted steps

i have spent like 20 minutes whacking every wall on the border of it, to no luck

[autumn kettle]

||mandatory for true ending||

[elfin ravine]

||you need to go up and left from the one who taught the needle technique||

[autumn kettle]

||harpoon req, i think wings req for most of it, past the pinmaster||

[south marten]

I mean...

[elfin ravine]

that one doesn't connect from that side

[south marten]

I haven't gotten that far yet

[elfin ravine]

it's a shortcut back from the other side

[south marten]

Got it

[thorny bear]

oh believe me i am very very aware

[elfin ravine]

I very much also kept looking at that one because I forgot that it didn't lead anywhere

[south marten]

I'm currently struggling with the stupid fucking fly

||Chapel of the Beast||, to be clear

[elfin ravine]

||you need to go where the pink area here is||

[thorny bear]

ah, thanks

since hornet refused to go west at the invisible wall below, i assumed it would be the same situation one room up so i didn't check there

[thorny bear]

please tell me there's a hidden bench somewhere so i don't have to go through the entire area for every single attempt

[elfin ravine]

||there is a bench halfway through, in a hidden area||

||still leaves quite a few rooms to trek through though, and you can't avoid getting maggot'd on the way up||

[thorny bear]

god

[elfin ravine]

||the one in the bottom right here, you can access it from the area above it through some breakable walls||

[thorny bear]

did hollow knight have this amount of "whack every square inch of available walls to find very important hidden rooms"? if so, my opinion of that game might seriously decrease

[elfin ravine]

not nearly as much IMO

[thorny bear]

yeah i didn't think so

thankfully i do have the charm that prevents maggots

[elfin ravine]

that'll help you on the way up then, yeah

I'd probably still delay that arena as much as you can

it's actual hell

[severe swift]

Silksong is like if they took every aspect of Hollow Knight that people liked and doubled down on it and also every aspect of Hollow Knight people didnt like and doubled down on it too.

[spark ether]

||widow|| defeated!!

now that was a fun fight

far and away my fav so far

[severe swift]

I'm dealing with the Runback to ||The Last Judge|| and good god why would they ever do that?

[open stratus]

||Widow|| felt random till it clicked.

I also enjoy ||her|| Hunter's Journal entry. Very creepy.

[spark ether]

it clicked really quickly for me, it just took me some tries to get thru the chaos of phase 2

||once I learned to start parrying thru her charges when it really took off for me||

[open stratus]

||I jumped and struck them from the air||

[hollow elm]

to be fair, a lot of hidden areas have small bonuses like bead strings/shard packs instead.

[sinful stirrup]

Oh I just jumped the charge and attack down to bounce off

Oh also

[spark ether]

yeah I did that too, but being able to parry through it let me be a lot more agressive in phase 2

[sinful stirrup]

I'm pretty sure the wanderer crest has iframes of its jumping down attack

[open stratus]

I love parrying

Even when it happens unintentionally, it still adds gravitas to fights.

[elfin ravine]

finally used my last Simple Key

||now I just need to find the key to that diving bell||

[elfin ravine]

or I hope it's the last at least

[autumn kettle]

don't sweat looking for it, ||it's act 3 msq prog||

[elfin ravine]

ah, I see

leaving that for later then I guess

[autumn kettle]

yeah, ||you get given it||

[brave flower]

im fucking terrified of how much there is in this game

im scared of missing shit

[autumn kettle]

it's peak

[elfin ravine]

it's a lot

[spark ether]

wait, does ||entering greymoor through bellhart prevent the moorwing fight from triggering??||

[elfin ravine]

yes

[spark ether]

damn

[elfin ravine]

it'll show up later at a different point

[brave flower]

ive heard the true ending ||requires you to do literally everything else in the game???||

[spark ether]

ah ok

[open stratus]

||Weavenest Alta, hell, the concept of hidden silktech bunkers in general, is so cool and I want to gush about it, but it's a secret.|| 😦

[autumn kettle]

it requires ||an as-of-yet unclear but extremely heavy amount of stuff||

[brave flower]

i see

[severe swift]

It's so funny when games do this because all it does is make it so the majority of their fans experience the ending not in-game but through a youtube video.

[sinful stirrup]

||the teleporter in atla made me 0.0 irl||

[open stratus]

||Mhm! The whole thing is just a big moment.||

[brave flower]

i wonder which ||crest|| im gonna stick with

||reaper|| feels amazing so far

but i am predisposed to liking ||architect||, which i have yet to unlock, due to ||it being a drill apparently||

[severe swift]

I have four and ||reaper|| just blows the others away. Having a pogo that's actually usable is somewhat important, whodathunk

[brave flower]

||reaper|| is REALLY REALLY GOOD yeah

the attacks being fucking huge is incredible

and ||the silk refund post-heal|| probably enables some real fucked shit

probably the ||crest|| id be fastest to recommend to people struggling with the game

[open stratus]

The pogo in ||Hunter|| is very usable.

[brave flower]

yeah it just feels wack

[open stratus]

😖

[safe yew]

i've made it to act 2!

[sinful stirrup]

Hunter pogo is different and I can think of a few bosses is want it for

[severe swift]

Different strokes but based on everything I'm hearing it's just too jank to be worth it

[open stratus]

It's not jank tho!

[severe swift]

I think if it gave you more airtime after you hit it'd be better.

[sinful stirrup]

See I dont think it's jank, I think people are unaccustomed

[open stratus]

It's extremely easy to use

[spark ether]

I'm really enjoying ||wanderer||. The short range can be annoying, but it has a truly neutral pogo and the built in quickslash has helped me kill a lot of bosses at this point lol

[hollow elm]

Still in Act 1 , but I've been bouncing around ||crests||, for various reasons. ||Swapped to Reaper when I got it, adjusted to Wanderer near-immediately, and recently learning Enhanced Hunter.||

[open stratus]

I can say this about a lot of the mechanics

[spark ether]

also ||reaper's half slashes|| really bother me

[hollow elm]

I've been using it more, but the diagonal divekick is rough to platform with hitbox-wise.

[severe swift]

Maybe! All I know is I play a LOT of platformers and I couldnt ever master it

[brave flower]

yeah the ||half slashes|| take some getting used to but they massively compensate by allowing you to just hit from way further away

[open stratus]

You've never played a platformer with a dive attack?

[severe swift]

Usually it just works better. I dunno!

[hollow elm]

From what I've experienced, the hitbox roughly matches the nail, hits lower than you'd expect.

[sinful stirrup]

I mean fundamentally you need to be able to draw out a 45 degree line from your position, if you're not practiced, it's going to be hard

[open stratus]

The nail points where it will hit

[brave flower]

oh god i just found out what ||architect|| does
its SO COOL
im gonna commit to it and im going to perpetually be in ||shards purgatory||
(im nowhere near unlocking it)

[open stratus]

If the needle is pointed at the enemy you'll hit with good timing

[severe swift]

Honestly I cant think of any games that only have a dive attack with no option to strike straight down as part of the moveset.

A lot of games have a dive option but that's when you're pointing diagonally. They'll still have a straight down attack.

[sinful stirrup]

Hunter pogo of about judging height and distance, rather than just above and height

[open stratus]

Apologies. Lots of the critical discorse around Silksong makes me instinctually go "You're playing it wrong! If you just do this, you'll win and have fun!" Even though that's assumptive and rude.

[brave flower]

you have to kill the fextralife in your head

[hollow elm]

I've been getting more practice with the angled dive, it's a massive bonus in combat against medium-large enemies, but ough it's unforgiving unless you get close when platforming.

[open stratus]

Reading people take hours to do things I breezed through makes me want to help.

[sinful stirrup]

Okay that is maybe a bit far, fextra is a whole other level of shittiness

[hollow elm]

It's the combo of hits low, sends you downwards at an angle, and narrow compared to a downwards swipe that really (enhances the faceplan factor) if you miss.

[sinful stirrup]

Fextra isn't trying to help, they're trying to game seo for traffic

[brave flower]

oh yeah thats fair, apologies

fextralife is horrendous

[open stratus]

||Like the fight in the right of Greymoor. That's an relatively easy fight if you treat it as a fight, and remember spacing and timing and let the enemies make their moves for you to react to!||

[severe swift]

With the Diagonal Pogo I am at least like: "Yknow, I respect the swing! To me it's a swing and a miss, but I respect that you tried something!"

Which is not something I can say for a lot of the rest of the game.

[hollow elm]

Very memorable part of Hornet's kit

[brave flower]

for me the whole game so far has been fantastic*

*except the rosary-locked benches

diagonal pogo imo is very forgivable because ||if you dont like it you can replace it||

[hollow elm]

I've been able to keep up with stringed beads, but can really see it getting unplesant without them on hand.

[open stratus]

I will say, I really like ||Reaper.||

[brave flower]

same

im hoping i like ||architect|| more when i get it, bc im legally obligated to use ||the drill weapon|| and i think it works in a very interesting way

[open stratus]

Much better than ||Wanderer. Wanderer actively removes thing I like||

Hornet's showey flippiness is life.

[brave flower]

very glad i didnt try to use ||wanderer|| against ||sister splinter||

[sinful stirrup]

||wanderer is too short reach for me||

[brave flower]

||splinter's most dangerous attack is her flailing around when shes stunned on the ground||

[thorny bear]

that is sorta the whole thing

[hollow elm]

||I meshed with Wanderer right away, but I'm incredibly used to Knight's moveset, and going all-in for more damage.||

[thorny bear]

it has short reach, but very fast attacks mean you get a lot more DPS/silk than the others

[brave flower]

||wanderer is very hit or miss, either you love it for the fast attacks or dislike it for being really short||

[thorny bear]

||splinter|| seems like the absolute perfect fight for wanderer

[brave flower]

honestly i could see that

[hollow elm]

Parrys like mad too if you learn enemy movesets, I've been able to cancel out entire 3-hit combos.

[brave flower]

its also a great fight for ||reaper|| tho

[thorny bear]

she's an enormous hitbox that doesn't move too fast, so you have lots of opportunity to whale on her a ton

[spark ether]

yeah, it feels like the only reason I got thru her

[open stratus]

||Reaper won me Splinter's corpse||

[brave flower]

yeah but her grounded flailing hitbox is exceptionally jank so the short range feels like a liability

[spark ether]

I could get full silk from 0 off a stagger against her with it

[brave flower]

i felt so cool doing that fight

on my successful attempt i got hit once and it was by a vine

[open stratus]

||The spinning top bugs where what killed me. Never died once to her flailing||

[brave flower]

yeah

||i died to her grounded hitbox once||

the adds are the real nasty part of the fight for sure

[spark ether]

oh yeah I hated the adds

though they did really train me to use tools

[brave flower]

it took me realizing that silk is better used in that fight for aoe oneshots than healing

and the moment i fully realized that i won

[spark ether]

the trap tool you get from ||forgedaughter|| really made quick work of them

[hollow elm]

I've gotten used to managing short range from base range Hollow Knight, though it can be unplesant against flying enemies especially.

[open stratus]

Hornet really puts that Weaver inventiveness to use

[thorny bear]

so is there any point to the ||sands of karak|| area? i went through the entire thing and all i got was access to a building that has nothing inside but one mediocre tool

[spark ether]

god the fleas are so cute

I love them

[autumn kettle]

yes, you missed something and also ||there's true ending prog later||

[brave flower]

will i know the point at which i should make sure to finish doing ||true ending prog|| or does it sneak up on you

[autumn kettle]

||and there's another trinket you can probably find now if you're really sharp||

[autumn kettle]

||yeah it's just Get The New Main Wish before you challenge the obvious final boss||

[brave flower]

awesome ty

[brave flower]

oh right youve got all the ||crests|| to my knowledge, what do you think abt ||architect||?

[autumn kettle]

probably my least favorite, but that's personal needle style preference

dunno how you'll feel about it

[brave flower]

fair! guess ill have to wait and see

fortunately it seems like probably the easiest one to Just Kinda Get once i reach it

[autumn kettle]

yep

[brave flower]

||20 tools|| seems like a lot rn but im sure the rate at which i find them will ramp up

[hoary tulip]

AGH DAMN IT

FUCKING COURIER RASHER
FUCKING HELL

this quest is pure, dilute misery

the worst part is that you can't even do the thing you could do for Pure Flower in hollow knight and execute every enemy along the path

[thorny bear]

yeah

[hoary tulip]

oh my god

I was

one room away

[elfin ravine]

I failed it one time by bonking into the door to the dining room

Also
Bad ending get

Now time to explore more

[hoary tulip]

DONE

LET'S
FUCKING
GOOOOOO

[elfin ravine]

Though I'm not really sure where else I can even go

Only place I haven't really been yet is ||the Slab||

And I still can't figure out how to get in there from the front, since it seems I missed my kidnapping opportunity

[hoary tulip]

okay

you know what

needle 3 spoilers: ||a damascene needle is fucking sick||

[autumn kettle]

finish ||bilewater||

[hoary tulip]

that's the coolest

[autumn kettle]

needle 4 is even more peak

[elfin ravine]

Actually I think I got in now

That was very hidden though

[hoary tulip]

fuckin hell

I went on a journey to the center of Inferno for needle 3

what are they gonna do to me for needle 4

this game is gonna have me in a state of rigor mortis, I'm gonna be speaking in tongues with whatever insanity they chuck at me next

[open stratus]

Silksong is on such a grand scale, even in the smaller things.

[hoary tulip]

btw if it isn't obvious I love the assbeating this game is giving me

[open stratus]

You can't just win and it's great!

[elfin ravine]

Now I just need to find the map here

[elfin ravine]

Mostly much easier ironically

Or maybe the food is meant as your fourth

[hoary tulip]

ah, huh

oh also did anyone else permanently kill the ||claw maidens||

[elfin ravine]

Yeah

[autumn kettle]

i don't recognize that name, who're those again?

[hoary tulip]

||the clockwork spiders||

[autumn kettle]

||...i still don't know who those are||

damn, did i miss something else?

[hoary tulip]

they're literally everywhere in the Citadel chief

[elfin ravine]

Cleared out the Slab

Breaking into prison for fun is kinda funny

No idea where I should go to progress now though

[thorny bear]

i am really not enjoying the postgame of silksong. in hollow knight i always felt like there was at least some sort of indication on what to do to make progress for true ending.
My past 10 hours of silksong since getting the normal ending have just been "aimlessly whack walls everywhere hoping i'll find a hidden area, when i eventually do find a new area i quickly clear it since i'm overpowered, i get barely any rewards and zero clue how to get started on true ending"

i guess it's probably just a wiki game

[elfin ravine]

That's also kinda where I'm at now

[autumn kettle]

ohhhh, these

you can ||permakill them?||

[hoary tulip]

yea there's a way

[autumn kettle]

neat

[thorny bear]

someone should make a "play as Knight in silksong" mod and a "play as Hornet in hollow knight" mod

but the hornet in hollow knight one is dramatically harder since none of the bugs in hallownest besides hornet have silk so she can't heal

[hoary tulip]

late act 2 boss spoilers: ||Second Sentinel, baby, you are the best. You kill my enemies, you do a cool duelling boss fight, and then you reward me with Emergency Heal||

[haughty oasis]

late act 2: ||should I fight the final boss right now or should i keep exploring. I assume fighting the final boss changes a bunch of shit world wide but idk if that means i should tie up loose ends I have access to now. To be clear I have like 2 entirely new areas i've found that i could explore||

[thorny bear]

you can freely do it as soon as you're ready, without any repercussions.

[green bone]

am I doing something wrong or do I have to unlock something ||hitting it doesnt give me anything||

I think I was meant to do ||Chapel of the Wanderer|| much earlier lmao

[fathom shadow]

Does the wanderers crest have any special abilities like the reapers crest does?
Beyond faster attack speed?

[open stratus]

||Crests being diatetic things is neat. Like, Hornet is changing the very makeup of her being on a fundamental level on the regular like one would change clothing.||

[hollow elm]

No idea, though it sometimes makes a loud ding after an attack.

[spark ether]

random chance to to crit when you hit someone which deals some amount of extra damage

I think double

[hoary tulip]

I win!

||I’m the strongest now! That’s winning! Right?!||

Also: ||There IS such a thing as making a suspiciously easy fight you know Team Cherry||

[hollow elm]

I think having (Act 1, slot option) ||Dead Bug's Purse|| equipped most of the time really affects my perception of the beads system, alongside keeping strings on backup/stringing when I can.
||Lets me keep roughly 50% beads on death, immensely useful when headed into unknown/dangerous areas.||

[sinful stirrup]

||BEASTFLY|| DOWN

[green bone]

The runback for ||Last Judge|| is diabolical bro

[inland wave]

||That One Goddamn Drillfly|| is going to be everyone's nemesis

[hoary tulip]

There are some devious runbacks in Silksong

[green bone]

Shit is worse than some Celeste b-side screens

and I know there are worse runbacks to come

[spark ether]

just found ||the mist||

what the fuck

||why are their ghosts||

||WHY DID MY FUCKIGN SOUL JUST GET SUCKED OUT WTF||

[inland wave]

I straight up do not know where to go, every option I've found requires Definitely A Grappling Hook

[green bone]

Someone described the ||Citadel|| as Hollow Knight's version of Dubai

[umbral canyon]

post-bellhart: where the hell is the ||bilewater|| map? i've found the travel station and the next area without finding shakra anywhere

[rose granite]

You get there from ||Sinner's road||

[rose granite]

Here more specifically

[umbral canyon]

ah, is that accessible post-||citadel||? I don't think i have access to that particular jump yet

[rose granite]

You should be able to access both areas yes. Only requirement is ||Wall-climb|| I believe.

[umbral canyon]

got it, i'll backtrack there, thank you. any particular reason to do that side of the map before the ||Citadel||?

[rose granite]

Because I thought that was the route and missed the one way in which it was said route ;p

Though you do get some neat NPC stuff.

[inner fog]

current experience with Silksong

I don’t want to get off team cherry’s wild ride

[umbral canyon]

oh, huh, the ||citadel|| is a trap, huh

[lost brook]

||"miss,you're an adult! So you're a murderer right"

"Those two things are not linked and I am afraid saying that you are right is going to reinforce some very bad tought patterns."

"Cool! So miss murderer,can you go out and kill lotsa things to fill my murder book?"

"....i feel like I am raising a serial killer but i also want the lore too much to say no."||

[umbral canyon]

tbh i think i'm a wanderer main at this point

reaper seems like it might be nice if you can get used to it, and beast.....does not seem good tbqh

[rose granite]

||Nuu is by far the most unhinged character in the game. ||

||Like it's not even an innocent kind of glee for slaughter, it's just glee.||

[severe swift]

The way Im looking at it now is it will be balanced eventually, so every bit of progress I make before the patch is bragging rights.

That is the only thing keeping me pushing

[open stratus]

||Okay, The Slab is the coolest thing! Like, you get captured, stripped of your gear, then have to do a stealthy prison break in just your shell, seeing the guarda playing with your panoply like toys, before finally finding an advantageous position fron which you can snap a massive guard's neck like shellwood and simultaneously recover your gear after which you carve your way through the place to freedom!

...Um. I think it's really cool.||

[hollow elm]

(Silksong Act 1, middle-ish) ||Really cool area, I'm very glad I got more practice with Hornet's moveset before that section.||

[lost brook]

||# DON QUIXOTE????||

[lapis siren]

The hollow knight silk song
The part where you run around naked

[lapis siren]

It is already balanced

2 mask damage is the truth and light

[autumn kettle]

based

[dense grove]

I have no frame of reference for if the damage is cranked or not cuz silksong is my first game, so I am also in the 'it's fine' camp

[hollow elm]

I'm mostly fine with 2-mask damage from boss attacks, especially with the improved parry system canceling out entire swings from both sides.

2-mask contact damage on flying bosses sucks bad though.

[inland wave]

Hornet's characterization is so good

Every ||Personal Space Slap|| so potent

[hoary tulip]

boss refight spoiler: ||Sav Beastfly 2 down, my hate towards this boss will never die||

[autumn kettle]

understandable lmao

[elfin ravine]

@autumn kettle
could you give me some directions for how I can actually start act 3 and work towards the true end btw?
I feel like I've run out of obvious leads and areas to go

also just learned there is apparently a special bad end, if you ||defeat the boss while still infected with the twisted bud||

[autumn kettle]

uh, do everything

||this is only kind of facetious||

||Silk and Song, the wish required to progress to act 3/the true ending, seems to be tied to completion%||

more helpfully (hopefully), what all do you have?

where was the last place you went, what spells/movement abilities do you have?

[elfin ravine]

last place I was was cleaning out ||Slab||

I have read it may be tied to completing other wishes, so I'm working on that rn

still had that one annoying bell one in Bellhart

[dreamy scarab]

https://bsky.app/profile/tobyfox.undertale.com/post/3lyc3xanp5c2c

tobyfox (@tobyfox.undertale.com)

Reposts

4346

Likes

21002

Quotes

103

Replies

310

Bluesky · Sep 8, 2025, 1:55 AM

[autumn kettle]

||it is, but only technically||

||it's based on raw %||

||meaning random gubbins can also tick it over||

[autumn kettle]

do you happen to have ||wings?||

[elfin ravine]

yes

once I do have what I need, who do I talk to?
||I assume it's the caretaker in the Songclave?||

[autumn kettle]

yep

have you found and cleared out ||bilewater?||

[elfin ravine]

yes

[autumn kettle]

cool cool

it's probably ||random wishes and bits and bobs, then||

||do you have all three silk hearts?||

||lace 2 isn't necessary, but her and her heart's % will probably help||

[elfin ravine]

okay I got the dialogue now

[autumn kettle]

nice

[elfin ravine]

think I was just slightly short

brought the fleas to their final destination too

[autumn kettle]

nice

[elfin ravine]

unfortunately don't have the rosaries to buy the tracking info yet, but I'll do that later I guess

oh btw, where do I find the ||Second Sentinel|| again later?

I encountered it once while going through the Citadel, but that was it

[autumn kettle]

||i found them in the halls to the right of the cog dancers, then again near the choral chambers teleporter||

[elfin ravine]

also still have the wish from the Huntress to complete

[autumn kettle]

do that immediately

[elfin ravine]

need to figure out if I actually have anything for the seared organs

I assume the flintstone works for that?

[autumn kettle]

yep

and pimpillo

[elfin ravine]

don't think I have that one yet

[autumn kettle]

ah, it's ||by yarnaby, in greymoor||

[elfin ravine]

also I assume the ||Snare Setter|| is in ||Atla||?

[autumn kettle]

yuh

[elfin ravine]

somehow missed that on my first time through

[elfin ravine]

oh it's actually a tool itself already too, neat

[elfin ravine]

...and I just realized I forgot where she actually is

[thorny bear]

bruh

i have been over every inch of that place with a fine-toothed comb twice and apparently there are two major things i'm still missing

[elfin ravine]

I also missed it when I went through first

[hollow elm]

(Act 1, tool) ||Barbed Bracelet|| is an interesting utility for farming in safe spots, can annihilate enemies faster if you're confident in your skills.

[hoary tulip]

okay

so uh

trying to get to Act 3

[autumn kettle]

OH MY GOD

[hoary tulip]

||How in the god damn FUCK do you deal with Groat the Grody||

[autumn kettle]

THE TWO FUCKING CODEX ENTRIES I WAS MISSING

ARE SO STUPID

WHAT THE HELL

[hoary tulip]

Everything about this is terrible and ass

this runback is ass

this bossfight is ass

[autumn kettle]

you kill yourself for having the fucking audacity to think that you're allowed to have fun against this man

[hoary tulip]

I thought I could Big Dodongo this shit and guess what

that ain't work

wait no you totally can I just screwed it up

[elfin ravine]

it's probably the hardest and most aggravating fight I've had to deal with in the game so far

[elfin ravine]

oh, you can pimpillo his ass when he inhales?

[hoary tulip]

yeah

[autumn kettle]

OH SHIT

FR?

that's tech to remember for my 100% runs

okay

doing TE final boss

real hard

[thorny bear]

the knowledge that there's an undiscovered bottom half of ||bellhart|| is driving me insane

[autumn kettle]

lmao

[thorny bear]

i have whacked every square inch of ground in ||shellwood, bellhart, and greymoor||, and every square inch of ceiling in ||marrow and hunter's march||

i'm really feeling like i should just give up on the stubborn notion of trying to discover things

and accept that i should play the game with a wiki constantly open in the background

[autumn kettle]

it's in ||the bellway||

i found that one pretty intuitive, as things go

[thorny bear]

ah, thanks

i suppose my whack every wall procedures need to expand to include all the subareas as well as the main map

[elfin ravine]

having just finished it, yeah that was definitely worth it

[hoary tulip]

my least favorite attack bosses do in this game is "hover to where you get crushed between their contact hitbox and the wall"

[elfin ravine]

yeah

also the amount of good blue tools I'm gathering is tempting me to use Witch more

[hoary tulip]

use what

[autumn kettle]

witch :)

[hoary tulip]

gottem

ggs

just needed more patience

[autumn kettle]

nice

[hoary tulip]

I feel like a lot of the boss runbacks in this game are designed to whittle down your mentality and patience rather than your resources lol

what they're really measuring is if you can keep your cool knowing that losing will send you back annoyingly far

[elfin ravine]

It's very funny how every act transition sees Hornet fall down from a great height

[autumn kettle]

that's probably not a bad guess

OH

ARE YOU AT ACT 3?

[elfin ravine]

Yes, just did the fight again

[autumn kettle]

oh shit, you can do bad ending and still hit act 3?

neat!

[elfin ravine]

Yeah if you do the bad ending it just puts you back to your last save

Same as in HK

[hoary tulip]

yea lol

okay

[autumn kettle]

sick

[hoary tulip]

before I go to act III

how do I ||witch out||

[elfin ravine]

You need to find a specific item

[hoary tulip]

fug

[elfin ravine]

Though I forgot where the bud actually is unfortunately

[hoary tulip]

oh cheers

[autumn kettle]

bottom of ||the right-side secret in the vaults||

[elfin ravine]

right, yeah

[hoary tulip]

okay

time to get high

[elfin ravine]

||go to this area, until you fall down back into Bilewater, poke around that area until you find the Twisted Bud, and bring it to a certain NPC in Shellwood||

[hollow elm]

Aboslutely seems like that, though I've been able to find alternate routes to bosses in many cases by exploring more.

[hoary tulip]

ic

thx

a little too much info but only by a mite

[elfin ravine]

also incredibly hilarious how act 3 seems to be ||nice job breaking things even more idiot||

[autumn kettle]

yeah sorry, i was trying to be vague

replied to the wrong person

prompted instead of posted

[hollow elm]

Appreciating the encounters that rush you with normal enemies more after learning how they're paced. Hunt missions encourage you to learn the moveset of normal enemies too.

[hoary tulip]

it makes sound in my inventory??

[autumn kettle]

yep lmao

[hoary tulip]

well

I know where to take this

[hollow elm]

Even shifts around

[hoary tulip]

||GREYROOT YOU BITCH||

[autumn kettle]

yummers

[elfin ravine]

:)

[drowsy moss]

i think i've hit my "leave a negative review on steam and stop playing until the balance patch" moment

||the fucking end of high halls||

[rose granite]

Yeah that one got me too.

[drowsy moss]

i wouldn't even be so mad if it was an actual difficult boss instead of another pissing endless enemy gauntlet with five different guys repeated eighty times

[autumn kettle]

remember that tools exist

[drowsy moss]

i ran out of shards!!!

[rose granite]

I've moved on to do other things, but it was a lot.

[hoary tulip]

Go do other stuff, seriously

[rose granite]

Lol, this is verbatim my exact reaction yesterday too

[hoary tulip]

there's ways to make it far, far less agonizing

[rose granite]

Quick question, did you unlock the method to access it early and naturally thought to go there?

Because that's what got me.

[autumn kettle]

there's a method to access it early?

what is it

i might need to use that for for achievement runs

[rose granite]

Not as in before you get the thing needed to access it, but rather as soon as you get said thing you think "Oh I should go to the area that needed this thing to access!".

[autumn kettle]

ah

[rose granite]

And then you go there, struggle your way through, get to the fight at the end, and say "ah, no I don't want to be here".

[drowsy moss]

this is actually a worse troll than the prank benches in ||sinner's path and hunter's march put together||

[autumn kettle]

??

[drowsy moss]

i was actually getting excited to see a cool new boss, on account of the nearby bench, travel point, and ominous foreboding architecture in the leadup

and then promptly received Oops! All Flying Mooks!

[rose granite]

But yeah, for now Goo I do totally get you. It's a weird space to navigate because I don't want to be down on the folk enjoying the game in the channel here either, and I still personally very much so do, but also it does have moments that can be frustrating.

So taking a step back for a bit at least is valid yeah. Sucks though to hear it being that frustrating.

[brave flower]

who would win: The Fucking Radiance or one bell puppy

[hoary tulip]

||Eva did not help me.||

oh fucking HELL

I've REALLY fucked up now

||The bell hermit is MIA and I needed him to tell me where to go next||

wait a damn moment I know where to go for this

[hollow elm]

I increasingly feel like speedrun/repeat run routing will be wild in Silksong as players learn encounters.

[drowsy moss]

alright, i'm out

i took the advice to go and do something else

i went to explore another dead end that had just been opened up by my shiny new tool

and you know what it was?

you know what it F U C K I N G was?

a cool new area with ominous architecture and every sign of being a leadup to a cool new boss

and i got to the bottom

and it was ||A MOTHERFUCKING FLYING GOON GAUNTLET||

||AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA||

i've left my negative review and i'm dropping the game until the balance patch arrives

it's got to arrive, right? team cherry wouldn't just ignore the voices of so much of their community, right?

they've always been super transparent with their projects and receptive to public feedback, right?

[brave flower]

what would you want the balance patch to even look like?

[autumn kettle]

have you considered being better at the game

like, criticisms are fine but if you're going to be inflammatory i feel like "git gud" is the only functional response

[drowsy moss]

ok sorry

i didn't want to direct toxicity towards anyone in particular

but i'm just heartbroken that this is the state in which this game released

[brave flower]

what is The Problem, from your perspective?

i havent felt like any of the game is a Problem, just the occasional intentional design element that i disagree with

[drowsy moss]

this is Not the level of difficulty that the game ought to be at

[autumn kettle]

i emphatically disagree

it is okay for games to be hard

it's fine to not like that

but calling that an objective failure is infuriating

easy mode? sure, super reasonable

[hoary tulip]

take a break and come back to the game with a fresh head imo

[autumn kettle]

"balance patch because this is a flawed game" is grody

[brave flower]

yeah ive been playing the game in short bursts so that i dont get too tilted

and i doubt its a coincidence that my successful ||moorwing|| attempt was right after i came back from getting dinner and my successful ||sister splinter|| attempt was right after i paused to drink water

[autumn kettle]

speaking of, i need to drink water

i've been at this final boss for two hours

[hollow elm]

I think the design direction of Silksong is very different from Hollow Knight, a lot of wild adds I'd qualify as elites by Hollow Knight standards.

[brave flower]

its so funny that ||the sister splinter adds|| show up as normal enemies specifically right after you beat ||her||

[hollow elm]

It's been a lot more enjoyable for me after learning the moveset, and limits of the adds giving me enough trouble to count as dueling.

[formal zenith]

I feel like I should be allowed to be frustrated that silksong promised to be more hollow knight but is in fact significantly more punishing
I think it demands a higher level of play than hollow knight did and not all of us have the time to devote to achieving that

[hollow elm]

For sure, one of the big reasons I hope an easier difficulty gets added. I can manage it, but good lord everything in Act 1 swings hard.

[hoary tulip]

Act II main boss spoilers: ||Man, that meme is right. Hornet could've handed Radiance her dusty moth ass if she had the Dream Nail||

[drowsy moss]

sorry for babyraging in public it's just

aaaaaaaaaagh

i was so excited for this man

[hoary tulip]

I mean it's not like I don't get frustrated with this game

you just gotta find your balance and push forward

[drowsy moss]

i finally bought expensive new headphones to replace my half-broken old ones on release day! my first play session, i got into a vc for the first time in months with my very old friends, who had been making fun of my silksanity coping since high school!

[brave flower]

i suspect that there will soon (if there arent already) be mods to make the game less difficult in unintrusive ways

[drowsy moss]

i've been spending almost a third of all my non-sleeping non-working hours since release day playing the game, and i can't deny anymore that this is just subjecting myself to eating gravel!

[formal zenith]

I think there's already a mod that removes double damage

[brave flower]

HEY

[hollow elm]

I think limiting healing to 100 silk is already a big difficulty change, 2-mask damage in a lot of cases is "you've finished Hollow Knight endgame, here's more challenge".

[autumn kettle]

100 silk?

oh right bc focus was in 33s

[hollow elm]

rough equivalent to Hollow Knight soul

[formal zenith]

how much is 100 silk again?

[autumn kettle]

uh, none

silk just goes in bars of 1

8 bars is a heal

your base is 8 and your cap is 16 bars

[hollow elm]

Aprox 9 swings

[autumn kettle]

8 swings

one to one

[formal zenith]

wait I'm still confused, are you saying you would change healing to only consume 1 silk?...

[autumn kettle]

I haven't actually kept track of spell costs, yet

whether they take different amounts or not

but i think it's 4 silk per spell

[hollow elm]

Mmm, I'm going by the glowing sections on the silk spool, and you (obtain) regen from 0-to-1 early on.

[elfin ravine]

it's 3 or 4 for silk skills I think yeah

[formal zenith]

I do think a more flexible heal like hollow knight's would make me feel more inclined to use silk skills
but idk the overuse of double damage is the bigger problem imo

[elfin ravine]

actually I can just test this
it's 4 silk for a skill

[drowsy moss]

for me it's the obnoxious double-damage spam combined with every enemy taking exactly three more hits than they feel like they should

[autumn kettle]

is that for all skills you have?

[hollow elm]

I've been using silk skills more often with a larger spool, but it's rough to justify with default meter, and 2-mask damage.

[elfin ravine]

good point

I was just checking if I could at 3, and couldn't

[autumn kettle]

gotcha

i assume they'll all be the same

but i haven't used silk skills much

[formal zenith]

I'm fine with double damage attacks existing, but if literally everything an act 1 boss does deals double damage, I think that's just lazy design

[drowsy moss]

which isn't helped by the first needle upgrade feeling not all that impactful and the second needle upgrade requiring you to pursue a bachelor's degree in fetchquests

[elfin ravine]

there is another oil, that's probably easier to get

[hollow elm]

Flying bosses dealing 2-masks on contact seems like a pretty big sticking point, especially if you don't space just right.

[elfin ravine]

I'm starting to think the food quest is meant to be your third nail upgrade

[autumn kettle]

it is

almost certainly

[hollow elm]

I've actually found the first needle upgrade to be pretty solid, but I'm also mixing Tools/Silk in fights I really don't want to deal with.

[autumn kettle]

you can get one oil like

three items before you can get the food oil

[formal zenith]

tbh I feel like any of these issues in a vacuum is not game-ruining but they kinda synergize with one another
sparse upgrades makes overtuned enemies feel even worse, which makes the runbacks and low rosary supply feel worse

[elfin ravine]

I do definitely get being frustrated

[drowsy moss]

i think the way that rosaries work is Basically Fine

albeit extremely poorly introduced

[elfin ravine]

I got incredibly mad over the Blighthaven arena myself

[hollow elm]

I've gotten used to running a more caster focused/low upgrade build in Hollow Knight, and Hornet's uphill struggle in Silksong feels a lot like that.

[drowsy moss]

i think most people see the option to buy bead chains, think in their optimiser brain "eighty beads for sixty beads!? i'm losing 25% of my beads by doing that! no thank you, mr. conman!" and then they die twice and lose 100% of their beads and never connect the dots properly

[hollow elm]

I've been stringing beads a ton after realizing how quickly you're risking a ton of beads moving through areas that drop them.

[rose granite]

It has reminded me a decent bit of the discourse surrounding Cuphead back when it released.

Where a lot of folk went into it due to the visuals, and then struggled with the difficulty of it.

[hollow elm]

I've been downright scurrying around the map as much as possible for Tools/upgrades to make up for the fact Hornet is stuck with an underwhelming (needle).

[autumn kettle]

I've used basically nothing but needle

despite how fucking rad the tools and spells are

needle 5 feels better than nail 5

alright, bio break over

back to the final boss grind

[hollow elm]

I've been trying out tools, but mostly keep returning to (Act 1) ||Sting Shard from Deep Docks||, absolute multi-tool of a Tool.

[autumn kettle]

it's a workhorse

[rose granite]

Not too surprising. Think that passive tools plus ranged ones with good coverage are the go-tos

[autumn kettle]

i used it a lot

[rose granite]

It does put you in a weird spot though if you don't get it, since the material for tools is itself rather rare I've found.

[autumn kettle]

i found basically none until uhhhhh

[rose granite]

Which admittedly, what isn't in the game in terms of collectibles.

[autumn kettle]

serval and rance? i don't actually know

[hollow elm]

Yeeeea, I fortunately grabbed it ASAP, but the resource to unlock some tools is really hard to find.

[drowsy moss]

i think i do just need a break, and to come back to it

[autumn kettle]

an orange name and a blue name that i recognize

[elfin ravine]

a lot of craftmetal is in fairly late and out the way spots

[autumn kettle]

pointed out a bunch to me

which really fucking helped

[rose granite]

Take your time and have a good one. I get your frustrations

[elfin ravine]

I think I'm missing one or two now

[drowsy moss]

but i still can't justify recommending this game to new players in its present state

[rose granite]

Mm

[autumn kettle]

well yeah, it's not a new player game

it's hollow knight 2

[hollow elm]

I really hope patches smooth out the rough parts of your run.

[autumn kettle]

not hollow knight 1

[elfin ravine]

you find two fairly early, and then a bunch of the others are more out of the way IME

[hollow elm]

I'd more say standalone endgame DLC to Hollow Knight.

[rose granite]

I mean there were a fair few people new to soulsborne with Elden Ring that still managed to persevere with it, and that's a famously difficult series.

[autumn kettle]

sure, but elden ring isn't like

a direct sequel

[lapis siren]

silksong is not as hard as elden ring

[autumn kettle]

the dark souls games are all Individual Entries

and elden ring is connected to none of em

[rose granite]

Can make the same argument for dark souls 3 then if that matters, but in practice Elden Ring is a sequel.

In terms of mechanics and such

[lapis siren]

i think almost all of the issues that people are having rn are just adjusting to the new game

[autumn kettle]

it has more a bit more of an expectation of "yeah new people will be playing it" than silksong, which seems built from the ground up to follow HK

[rose granite]

Eh, that one is debatable but that's a different question.

[lapis siren]

like i saw someone complaining about a certain enemy on a runback to a certain boss in front of a big door, discussing how it would factor into speedruns

and the answer is. it doesnt

you can literally just dash past it

but i dont think anyone even realised that

you can just keep running and you will ignore it entirely

not a single enemy in the entire runback needs to be encountered at all

[autumn kettle]

oh yeah may, have you beaten the act 3 final boss?

curious on your thoughts

[lapis siren]

no

[autumn kettle]

i'm currently getting mogged by it

gotcha

[lapis siren]

im still working through act 2

[south marten]

I mean, it started life as a DLC for Hollow Knight

[lapis siren]

i just played the part where you run around naked

[autumn kettle]

a3 definitely has some mean fucking content

[hollow elm]

I've noticed that a lot with some sections of Silksong. You can avoid some problems entirely if you're going fast enough with a plan.

[autumn kettle]

||karmelita||, PUNISHED!||trobbio||, and now the final boss have been some of my favorite bosses in gaming

[autumn kettle]

or even normal speed with a plan

[lapis siren]

i really appreciate that the early game isnt boring

[drowsy moss]

Silksong was built as "a perfect jumping-on point for new players," Team Cherry's Ari Gibson told Edge for its December 2020 issue. "We're trying to be really, really mindful that we want this to be a game that new people can come into, and experience as their first Hollow Knight game - that it sits alongside the original game, and the difficulty also sits alongside the game in that way."

[autumn kettle]

yeah that was in 2025

[drowsy moss]

team cherry seem to disagree, or at least they did back in 2020

[lapis siren]

i dropped hollow knight for like, a year cause forgotten crossroads bored the fuck out of my mind

[autumn kettle]

it's been 5 years of crack fiend dev time since then

[lapis siren]

i really enjoy the early bosses being engaging and fun and having specific tool counters you can find

and the rosary system isnt too bad if you just remember to string them

you lose a few in the process but it saves a ton long term

[autumn kettle]

yeah i like the early bosses having actual legs

[hollow elm]

I'm running around with a pretty absurd stockpile because I keep backtracking through areas that drop beads.

[lapis siren]

i think (and this may be heresy) but a lot of the double damage doesnt actually feel that bad to me

healing is a LOT faster in this game

and a lot safer

[autumn kettle]

healing is very fast and also like

5 hits?