The Sixth Voice -A Third Party Homebrew LCP

[rocky hawk]

Its meant to be like

THE THING you come to the mech for

[jolly gorge]

IMO that is the cannon

but fair

[rocky hawk]

Bizarre cannon is maybe a little strong

[jolly gorge]

it is the star of the fitzgerald's show IMO

it's not even neccessarily an insanely OP heavy, it's just that it is a decent heavy, and when a mech has a heavy, it shoota da heavy

[rocky hawk]

Cause you always wanna use the heavy

[jolly gorge]

objectively compared to railgun it is kinda worse

no ordnance is hella nice fs but ye

but like, it's still a solid heavy so it shoota da heavy

[jolly gorge]

add blasting powder, hole puncher, and knock em down, it's better than railgun

[rocky hawk]

Not on deaths head liscence boosts it

[jolly gorge]

Yeah not being DH3 and all of its traits helping it make it better

I dont think that nerfing the heavy is the play tho, since it only has a main mount lol

[rocky hawk]

Yeah

Is the takeaway just

Leave it be, it's interactions being limited is kinda bad but other options are worse?

Or is it, rework time

[jolly gorge]

ok so I have thought this for a long while, and since you brought up reworks. Caliban has integrated main + heavy mount for a reason. The main gun on the mech is customizable, I think that is very important, and the flipping that fitz does makes it very hard to make fitz' that truly look different to others

I dont think it's awful

and it is very hard lol, there are so few line heavies in the game

but you can just make it based upon cannons, with line heavy cannons in the license

[rocky hawk]

So make bizarre a main and the liscence ones heavies?

[jolly gorge]

I genuinely feel that is optimal for identical reasons to why the caliban's cannibal isnt integrated, but the flayer is

I understan that is a kind of big change, and I do think the mech is like, mostly fine as is, there are first party license that are more sketch than this lol

you might piss some fitz fans off tho lol

[rocky hawk]

I honestly think that changing it now would feel bad cause of that exact reason

[jolly gorge]

lol yeah that is fair and why I never brought it up

[rocky hawk]

Dragon kid video too

Hmm

[jolly gorge]

YEAAAH

people fuck with the fitzgerald lol

[rocky hawk]

Going on the maybe later list

[jolly gorge]

prob just leave it be if people like it

personally I dont respect the opinions of delusional lancer players who put superheavies on death's head, but that is why your LCP is popular and mine is not lol

[rocky hawk]

I've always been the type of person where if I see a single piece of criticism I try and fix it

[jolly gorge]

same lol

[rocky hawk]

It's marketing, and also pishly

More than a mark of quality

[jolly gorge]

maybe lol

yeah listen I dont actually think it is that good of an idea to change fitz, too many people like it, I was just giving options since you seemed hesitant on its state

[rocky hawk]

It's good to be aware of things in general

Even if it doesn't get fixed yet or now

[jolly gorge]

I think for future reference it is important to recognize that the cannon is like 90% of its appeal

not just flavoring, gameplay too

hole puncher is not what brings people to it, even if it should due to its power

[jolly gorge]

tbf I have probably already pissed more than a few people off by yapping about how their favorite mech is too strong lol

[jolly gorge]

funnily enough I am struggling with exactly this rn with my Clausewitz, its entire identity is it is an airplane that can project lines to the ground like it's doing a strafing run, but there are SO FEW line heavies lol, so it's hard to make it work with anything but itself

[wary topaz]

-- HA Koremasa @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  HA Koremasa 3, SCENE RENAISSANCE 1, PTI Magician 1, C&H PESILAT 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Integrated Weapon, Integrated Ammo Feeds
[ TALENTS ]
  Gladiator 3, PEN TESTING 3, Ionized 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+3
  SPD:5 EVA:12 EDEF:8 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated Weapon: Fusionbleed shuriken
  Flex Mount: Macethorn Plating
  Main/Aux Mount: Rendwire Sickle / Fusionbleed shuriken
[ SYSTEMS ]
   UF-1300 ‘Bulldozer’ Fuel-Spikers x5, //shadowfist, Project Duplicate, Blinkblade Slice x6```
i am doing some bullshit here

wanted to make a build with no first party content

but i forgot for the core bonuses

[rocky hawk]

You might half to link to what the hell half of that does

[lusty steppe]

majestic build

(i don't know like that scene and pti frames)

[wary topaz]

scene and paratech are both cool. i've been playing a pti chariot in my campaign recently

[wary topaz]

this whole build started because i thought that pen testing would be fun on a koremasa and spiraled from there

[lusty steppe]

can you send links to the originals? the comp/con must grow

[wary topaz]

https://derpghost.itch.io/the-scene
https://pixela7e.itch.io/paracausal-technologies-institution#download

[lusty steppe]

tysm

[rocky hawk]

woah

i love the concept of a koremasa putting up duplicates and blinding people

[forest trail]

I think a big big part of why I love the vauban

[wary topaz]

me when i ban my vau

[forest trail]

is that when you throw all of the controller stuff, you are ridiculously rewarded

you are being SENT TO HELL

are you trying to move? NOPE I SEND YOU TO HELL

(maar)

If you take minotaur systems and hit aggressive system sync

w like 3 patches of difficult terrain between you

it makes me feel feral

[rocky hawk]

I don't think any of that is really gonna get changed but to be honest the stats are a little pushed

2 armor makes it just so hard to kill

[finite wyvern]

@strong jacinth

[strong jacinth]

Hello

[finite wyvern]

you were summoned

[strong jacinth]

I can see that lol

[finite wyvern]

someone had a big brain to do a magician/koresema hybrid build

So

thanku

[strong jacinth]

oh no

[finite wyvern]

And it works

because Koresema is a hacker/striker hybrid

now it does lack armor due to nerfs

sadge

[rocky hawk]

the magican systems are so sick

[strong jacinth]

I love space magic

[finite wyvern]

but we will make do with what we have

[finite wyvern]

Magic - 😐
Magic in space - 😎

Lancer lore in a nutshell

Simply say "it's paracausal"

Boom, infinitely cooler lore

[rocky hawk]

YESSSSS i LOVE HAVING NO MECHANICAL EXPLANATION

SLUAGH IS MAGIC

black mountain makes NO SENSE

[strong jacinth]

When code can alter reality you can do whatever the hell you want

[finite wyvern]

Slaugh is powered by the dead bodies of emperor players who were tired of allies having to tank for hem

They have come back for revenge

now they are the overshield tank

I love Slaugh

Because it means I can run tank balor

[rocky hawk]

i think you can always run a balor as a tank

[finite wyvern]

no like

as a defender tank

because of the taunt ability

[rocky hawk]

I love taking fat hits and healing it away

[strong jacinth]

I do want to see how people work with the Magician stuff

cuz that whole license and frame is fucked

in a good way

[jolly gorge]

I agree

[wary topaz]

don't worry the build only requires 5 different homebrew expansions

[rocky hawk]

real as fuck

[strong jacinth]

🥴

[rocky hawk]

means its 5x as better\

[strong jacinth]

Doesn't make for very good balance data though lmao

[wary topaz]

all of its talents are from a different source lol

[strong jacinth]

[solid garden]

Damn this never got answered huh

A grand total of 3 times per mission yeah this isn't a major damage factor

Like sure if u were using it normally anyways then opcal is silly but as a side that's a crazy way to spend a core bonus unless you're engimaxxing and also getting integrated ammo feeds

[solid garden]

Literally ghast nexus except slightly less cool

(And half a damage point stronger but we don't talk abt that)

Now you're ralking my language😎 hydra supremacy

Damn guess I'll have to delete the LCP and leave this thread then😔 such slander cannot be tolerated

Nah HMG clause🔥🔥🔥

Ok I'm caught up to date and my response wall is sufficiently crazy looking

[finite wyvern]

does mot need 2 lls in hydra

[solid garden]

Yeah ik I just mean it's meh that statwise it's pretty much identical to ghast

[craggy hinge]

It was astounding to me during my own playtesting how much 1 armor practically doesn’t exist but 2 armor prevents what feels like infinitely more damage

[rocky hawk]

It's so weird

I might nerf it's damage trait and then just lower some of the auxillary stats

[craggy hinge]

I think it’s mainly cuz a lot of those “medium” damage ranges for NPCS are 4-5 so 2 armor is like halving it where applicable

[rocky hawk]

The 2 armor does FEEL good to use

[craggy hinge]

I, as GM, think it feels bad to play against. I’m supposed to kill my players grrr! /j

[rocky hawk]

Hmm could cut sensors to 8, make you much more of a frontliner

Tech attack to -1 or HP to 6

[jolly gorge]

I mean that the majority of your damage would be procced off of using the sword as a free action

not that the sword itself is doing a majority of your damage

since using the sword as a free action induces hunter 3 + core integrated, and the hunter sword could be OP cal'd, which isn't a throw, since 1d6 bonus damage is the same amount of increased damage regardless of the base damage. The thing with OP cal is putting it on the weapon you use the most

[jolly gorge]

bonus damage inherently favors low action investment attacks

as a bonus d6 main/aux striker, your skirmish can do upwards of 30 average damage very easily, your barrage will often barely raise that to 36

so being able to do that 30 as a free action, since bonus damage is all weighted oin that attack, is very strong

and limited 3 is not real, engineering is such a non-negotiable stat

[rocky hawk]

Symptom of high ll play

[jolly gorge]

I am currently GMing for 3 armor 2's + a perma hidden hecaton

armor 2 is annoying lol

[jolly gorge]

genuienly @ LL12, 90% of mechs become OC builds

idc if ur heat cap 4 base, ur 10 now, and we have heatfall blumb techno

[wintry imp]

haha lich go brr

i still don't have enough to use my displacer at 12

[craggy hinge]

I do think a negative tech attack in a license with an invade option wouldnt be a great idea

[rocky hawk]

Up until ll6 I think most people focus on hull and agility

[rocky hawk]

No, but I gotta consider things even if it's a bad idea

[craggy hinge]

My vote, if it matters, is on dropping HP to 6

[rocky hawk]

I think I agree

Makes its effective hp 10

Instead of 12

[craggy hinge]

And its got good enough stats in other regards that it wouldnt be a complete pain to make up for with pips

[jolly gorge]

well ideally it is NOT a player thing, it is a mech thing lol

if your mech is evas 6 and ur building agi ur throwing

idc if you want to be fast

ur evas 6, you arent gonna waste hase to only care for the HASE' secondary effect

[jolly gorge]

Iskander has no tech attacks

Iskander is base tech 1 and is good at e-war, but the license has no tech attacks

[craggy hinge]

I might be stupid

[jolly gorge]

lol

tesseract FEELS like an invade in some ways, but it is not

[craggy hinge]

I was thinking of the thing at the end of it license which I believe is just tech actions yeah

See in that case lowering its tech attack is a kind of meaningless nerf

Only kind of

[jolly gorge]

IMO, the vast majority of mechs in the game have 2 primary stats, and a masive amount of the mechs are not primary hull agi

There are some fundamentally cooked stat combos, like agi sys

if ur a mech that wants agi sys, then ur heat cap is probably ass, and so you need engi, but also you need hull because we cant be gambling with evas that hard and we need to be able to survive a smart

the dusk wing problem lol

but all of HA is simple hull engi, with toku sometimes justifying AGI

so ye idk if I agree with that

[jolly gorge]

I do still think making it more brittle at HP 6 and armor 2 is probably better

though removing its tech attack does do meaningful work to further differentiate it from iskander

it's not like it truly needs that at all, one mech does mines and the other doesnt touch them, but it does do it

[rocky hawk]

Vauban does mines still

Benefits from them at least

[jolly gorge]

I mean meh

there are better ways of doing what it wants

I think it's good that the vauban doesnt really care to place mines since that's iskanders thing and also iskander license has literally one mine and it isnt good

grav nade is good but thr grounding mine is meh

[rocky hawk]

I have always thought it's crazy how few mines it actually has

[finite wyvern]

subutai gaming

how do i donit

[rocky hawk]

Shoot people

They die to siege cannon

[finite wyvern]

bwa

[rocky hawk]

Or you spam diversion rail and then eat shit

[finite wyvern]

byt

i wanna be defendt

defendy

[rocky hawk]

Diversion rail isn't a real weapon

It's basically a defender trait with a roll to hit

[finite wyvern]

I know

but its good on a barrage

1d6 ap

15 range

anyways

my assumption is “enclave shield”

becaude bubble

[rocky hawk]

Mid range heavies like gilg rifle love it

Or a vulture on the main

[finite wyvern]

ooh

[rocky hawk]

Also you can fire diversion on off turns when you need to reload with external

[solid garden]

(Assuming you crit:)
3 (rend axe) + 4.5 (opcal) + 3.5 (aux knife) + 4.5 (nuccav) + 3.5 (disdainful blade) = 19 damage in the best best case scenario?

This is a lot of investment (including duelist 1 ofc) for a mech that wants to use their actions for something else than damage

In late LL gaming sure maybe but if we speak of the LL's people actually play most of the time (1-6) you won't have those tools. As a controller you gotta invest your resources into controlling, supporters gotta support first and foremost

[solid garden]

Excpecting maximum damage on a support build is kinda crazy

[solid garden]

(16dmg without crit, also both auxes lack accuracy so they can very well miss)

[solid garden]

And even if this becomes limited 6 that's still 6 uses throughout one mission. Which sure if you only use those ofc it's gonna be your main damage, but then you've invested so much into this damage build it should still be optimal to just skirmish with it every turn after you run out anyway

So yeah at best this is a melee build that gets 6 (most likely closer to 3) shots a mission at still being a melee build but also doing a bit more supporting or hacking or defending or whatever

Good melee build but at that point if you're gonna throw yiur resources at it be a mech with the inherent tools to do damage and be in melee, that also happens to have a tech attack bonus or a bunch of sp or whatever you're gonna be striker/(support or controller)

[rocky hawk]

I might remove its shred on crit just for chainaxe parity

Or honestly just remove the attack with no charges part

[jolly gorge]

lancer talents are very damage focused in general. The good ones, at least. You can comfortably invest majority of your talents into DPS, and then invest systems into support, and that will be optimal a large amount of the time

like all you need to hack effectively is 2-4 SP in some invade options, and sys investment

[solid garden]

I was more focusing on core bonus tbh

[jolly gorge]

there are functionally zero core bonuses trhat improve your ability to hack in first party lancer

there is held image + hacker 1

and there is open door for the few E-wars that cause saves like smite

[jolly gorge]

so long as the mech ur in has at least tech 0 and solid sensors lol

if ur in a -2 tech mech u need more investment to hack, but also dont do that lol

also limited 6 is not 6 times/mission

it is 6 times/full repair

which there is no limit to full repair/mission

just, generally, every 3-4 scenes

[solid garden]

As a controller you have open door. As a support, held image to enable party shenanigans. And as u said hacker kinda works with that too

[jolly gorge]

controller you only have open door if your specific control method involves saves

e-war specifically very seldom does

[solid garden]

Any gm who has more than that many combats between level ups is crazy😭

[jolly gorge]

I, personally, have found limited 5 to generally be the number where you dont typically run out while using them thoughtfully

[jolly gorge]

and, the way we play, we are typically outnumbered minimum 3-1 every single combat for 3-4 straight combats

our last combat scene involved the death of 21 hostile NPC's

zero grunts

[solid garden]

My campaign has been going on for 8 months now and my party has beat uhh... 3 proper combats😭 only reason they get anywhere build wise is because after the first mission of 2 combats I let them level up 3 times lmao. The campaign is over a schoolyear and I graduate in a month, the plan was to finish this mission and then have one more...

[jolly gorge]

well

that is unusual lol

[solid garden]

Yeah. My players are just hella slow lmao. And scheduling is actually a nightmare

One of my players has been on like... 3 sessions? So we basically count her as a bonus if she can come to a session atp rather than a prerequisite. Unfortunate, she's the one hacker

Haven't really see her minotaur do anything ever, her one session with it she didn't really do much mino specific mostly rp

[jolly gorge]

Minotaur moment

[solid garden]

The last session was supposed to be a combat and then the decently short bit to the next combat (and end at a cliffhanger at the start of that)

They didn't finish the first combat...

They did mess around a bunch in the 2 optional small rooms (no real planned content, it was mostly flavour to quickly sate their curiosity and exploration... they spent a long time trying to turn on the printers in the printer room (I very explicitly said many times that the facility is actively shutting down and they wont be able to turn the printers on for a usably long time😭))

[jolly gorge]

also if this is LL6, average npc HP is like 15-16, so this is a one-shot

and that is a high ball for HP

[solid garden]

Also during the combat the pegasus player spent a while trying to figure out how to keep a 1/2 sized robot safe while she was carrying it around. Said robot was an enemy actively slashing at her😭 (a really weak, immobile one as they were mass brought into the room on conveyor belt)

[jolly gorge]

a LOT of npc's are 10's and 12's

[jolly gorge]

damn humanitarians

typical horus pilot

[solid garden]

Yeah she's trying to make it the second party pet

[jolly gorge]

absolute delusions of moral correctness while piloting the machine of abject evil and hatred

[solid garden]

The first one was also an enemy, a bombard that the zheng managed to intimidate into following her around cuz it was fearing for its life

[jolly gorge]

evil

[solid garden]

Then it died to plot reasons and they spent ages trying to figure out how to revive it

[jolly gorge]

yes

you can justify replacing it with something

like not just nerfing it

[rocky hawk]

I should nerf black mountain again

[wary topaz]

Spin two wheels and buff one of the results and nerf the other

[rocky hawk]

Maidens blush buffs and I'm needing the purple thorn again

No more reliable blinkbolts

[wary topaz]

Needing

[rocky hawk]

Range 5 do 1 damage now

Nerfing

Okay okay

I got 4 hours of sleep and I am at work

[wary topaz]

Range nothing and they deal -1 damage

They heal your enemy

[rocky hawk]

Fuck ... That would be peak

[wary topaz]

Everything i design is peak

[rocky hawk]

They autofire as well

In all seriousness I feel like I gotta find something to focus on so I don't make more mechs

Get those core compendiums done

[solid garden]

Maidens blush is underpowered? Could you explain why?

[wary topaz]

I've got so fucking many frames to write lore for lol. I've fallen so behind

[rocky hawk]

It's not on compcon but it actually suffers from severe social anxiety so the buffs will aim to combat that

And to be serious, it isn't getting buffed

[solid garden]

Ah ok

[finite wyvern]

yes

[finite wyvern]

buh

[rocky hawk]

Which part this time

[craggy hinge]

-# is the pinned message supposed to say "...the bowels of Cradle..." and not bowls

[rocky hawk]

Yes it is

It's fixed everywhere else I think

Fixed it

[craggy hinge]

Thanks

Idk why little things like that irk me so much

[rocky hawk]

Also damn people actually read that still?

[craggy hinge]

Idek why I was reading it

Ive been on autopilot today

[jolly gorge]

AGAIN?

[solid garden]

Sounds pretty healthy yeah

[abstract stump]

I did another thing using Primrose for the Nelson. I also made a Nelson Flight Type version from Suldan, replacing hunter and ace respectively. Mostly the same though, but I wanted to see if regular Nelson worked well. And on paper? It seems to, mostly.

-- IPS-N Nelson @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
IPS-N Nelson 3, SSC Primrose 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Superheavy Mounting, Full Subjectivity Sync
[ TALENTS ]
Executioner 3, Duelist 3, Hunter 2, Brutal 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2
STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:0
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:6
TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
SPD:7 EVA:17 EDEF:7 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
Superheavy Mount: Acrasial Falcata (DDMR)
Flex Mount: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
Main/Aux Mount: Rend Axe (Thermal Charge) / Power Knuckles
[ SYSTEMS ]
Flourishing Twirl x4, Personalizations

[rocky hawk]

Blinkbolts are so bad right now

[solid garden]

Oh they are?

[rocky hawk]

In my opinion

Compared to oracles at least

[solid garden]

From the groaning I've heard from gm's about seeking I'd assume a range 10 unrestricted aux with it would be good but

[solid garden]

That's fair I suppose oracles are cracked for aux ranged

And this does compete with them

[rocky hawk]

They aren't bad because seeking is still nuts but compared to what they started as?

Range 15 seeking ap 2 damage

[solid garden]

Oh right lmao

[craggy hinge]

There was a short time at our table where Purple Thorn had pretty much the best LL1 grab weapon for any damage build

[rocky hawk]

Yeah ..

[craggy hinge]

Also speaking of balance

How much has Primrose's flourishing twirl been playtested?

I wanna preface that I havent played with it and would love to be wrong but on paper it sounds insane. High fixed damage on what could easily be a burst 4-5 area that doesnt even really care about positioning since it only affects hostiles sounds really strong

*Strong in a way that doesn't strike me as interactive

[rocky hawk]

A fair amount, it's damage falls off at higher ll and it is limited

It is a big area though for sure

[finite wyvern]

tbh its 99% the 2/round three bonus damage

make it 1/round

but it doesnt need a heat cost

Otherwise uh its aftuallly pretty balanced

maybe do half grit for bringer of glory because thats a free action regenerating overshield

but thats already kneecapping an almost balanced frame (on paper)

that part just irks me because all damage bonus traits in lancer (i think?) are 1/round

so 2/round is a serious force multiplier

but if so you could do like 4 bonus damage too

note i have NOT player this frame and probably wont because its not my jam

this is a whiteroom analysis

its super badass i just dont like hard support frames

i will happily run emperor on gilgamesh to become the ultimate striker support however

[solid garden]

Damn I'm hanging out in the prototype pattern groups forum and did that one too many times and now it's almost banned lmao

[rocky hawk]

There's nothing wrong with white room

[solid garden]

(Like I didn't do that many, it was mostly one time when it wasn't even my own analysis... just my friends reaction to me telling her Valks heat rework which I forwarded to Valk to ask if he could explain why the changes weren't so bad in a way that was more coherent then me)

(Turns out the reason my friend reacted so strongly was because unbeknownst to me I'd misunderstood the changes and explained a much more punishing system that her HA brain reasonably didn't accept)

[solid garden]

There is a fair point to be made that you can't question things too much without playtest proof that something is op, unless you have a core content thing to compare it to to make it very clear

[finite wyvern]

my whiteroom analysis just boils down to “math no mathing eith existing marh”

[rocky hawk]

Only issue with weakening bms bonus damage is that it's the main focus of the frame

Id rather nerf the over shield first

[finite wyvern]

hmmmmmmmmm

maybe dont nerf it the

[bright flint]

my viceroy runs them in his aux/aux and he fucking loves that shit . reliable is awesome

[jolly gorge]

I dont agree

I wont argue about BM's current power, but I think making the bonus damage thing 1/round fundamentally makes the mech less interesting in a way that just kills its identity outright

[jolly gorge]

yes

I think a potentially cool way to go about it is to have it give people bonus damage at the cost of LOSING some overshield

that is more of a rework than a balance change but

If you want to go hard on the emperor alt that kills you then that would do it

[rocky hawk]

Hmm that isn't a bad idea

Making an end to all things clear 1d3 over shield or something

[finite wyvern]

okay bella i have come to complain about whiteroom balance again

this one might be justified but idk

[rocky hawk]

Which one!

[finite wyvern]

how is the wavemaker grenade launcher justified when mortar exists

[rocky hawk]

Like, it's too good or too bad

[finite wyvern]

Which is not limited has more damage and range and is gms

[finite wyvern]

itd quite litrrally better in every way except it has no reliable 2

tag wise

[rocky hawk]

Aoe reliable is really good

[finite wyvern]

yes yes

that was. The other part

i might just underestimate the power of aoe reliable since i havent seen it

i just wanna know if its that powerfulmore out of curiosity

i havent palytested it so i cant balance for u

[rocky hawk]

Also, innacurate on the mortar is really bad

[finite wyvern]

its on the wavemaker too right?

[rocky hawk]

In most tests wavemaker was a decent cc option but struggled against single targets significantly

[finite wyvern]

inaccurate

[rocky hawk]

Yes, but having reliable makes the innacurate less impactful

[finite wyvern]

mhm

i see

but it is still limited 4 compared to an unlimited weapo with more range and base damage

[rocky hawk]

It's an ll1 weapon I don't mind if it's on the weaker side

[finite wyvern]

oh its not that its too weak

its that it feels like a weaker version of a gms gun

but again reliable aoe might be cracked

[solid garden]

Kinetic hammer:

[finite wyvern]

especially on the frame

[solid garden]

Wait I can't read I just woke up

[rocky hawk]

I may increase the limited

[finite wyvern]

kinetic hammer is an ll3 melee that is stronger than its gms equivalent?

Wavemaker can be weaker its just about it still having a niche

[solid garden]

Yeah I thought u said the gms gun was a direct weaker version

[finite wyvern]

I shall leave the rest to you

my case rests i have said my whiteroom slop

wr need a lancer nhp that contains the souls of whiteroom homebrew balancers

[rocky hawk]

It's jorg

[finite wyvern]

Make a contested skill check against the gm

if you win, increase or deceease any number in the sitrep by exactly one (to a min of 0)

if you fail, the gm does this instead for you

[rocky hawk]

The number of gms from 1 to 0

[solid garden]

Hear me out, spend limited charge to gain reliable 2 but works without it? That way you do still have a weapon once charges are out even if it's very mid for actually hitting targets

Still decently likely to hit against obstructions and really low eva enemies esp at higher LL's so you can choose to not use charges if those are youe target. Plus u can destroy it when you take system trauma even when out of charges which feels right for an ips-n mech, a weapon to be discarded yk

Just an idea

[rocky hawk]

That's what stat comp does already

Making it destroyable when out of charges though is something I do like

[solid garden]

Oh I did not check the rest of the license before writing this lmao

[rocky hawk]

LMAO

Fair enough

[solid garden]

Like I have once upon a time

But now I just searched the weapon in the weapons tab

I mean it might be a bit silly to double up with a pretty specific feature like that but it isn't out of the question to have the mod be "bring the wavemaker thingy to other weapons"

Supermassive and nanocomp does double up with their respective license gear and like this, supermassive does stack with the main feature of said weapons like this would do

Is allowing you to almost double the uses of the "stronger version" of the wavebreaker for 2 sp a little silly? Perhaps, but I'm not ready to call that op quite yet, playtesting would be needed

[jolly gorge]

kinetic hammer is an anomaly

kinetic hammer being outright better than its GMS equivalent should be thoroughly ignored, that is not an acceptable thing to be

[finite wyvern]

My controversial take is kinhammer should have taken bbs place as an ll1 dip

and been nerfed accordingly snd given an actual nichr

rather than a very fun option for combined arms at ll3 but an option thats a lik astchnronous

[craggy hinge]

Fuck I’m gonna be honest balancing around GMS options is stupid imo

To a certain degree at least

Like god forbid a weapon that takes several license levels to get be better than the free universally available one like ?????. Some GMS weapons also suck ass - no, I don’t want to balance around the hunter killer nexus or thermal pistol lmfao

Direct upgrades to GMS weapons at worst commit the sin of being boring, which I think is the Kinetic Hammer’s biggest fault

-# Unless they’re like, way way way overtuned in which case yeah they’re problematic. But I think you get my point

[rocky hawk]

goated opinion

[craggy hinge]

I knew I liked you

I’m rereading what I wrote and I fear I may have come off a little strong. I’m not mad or anything lol, and I don’t mean to discredit what other people believe. I do feel strongly about the subject tho

[jolly gorge]

Well, my statement is not a belief

it is the way that the game is balanced, and very intentionally so

if you disagree with that balancing choice then fair, but first party has chosen this design philosophy, and that is a fact, and I personally trust first party for the most part

I think the very lateral scaling of lancer, where things are generally only better because your specific build likes them more than other options rather than being straight upgrades is one of the game's biggest strengths

I dont agree at all that balancing around GMS is stupid I think it is a very very good choice. Some GMS weapons are fucking ass tho, and balancing when the competition is dogshit is hard

but that issue is not exclusive to GMS, license gear that is ass makes balancing annoying for competing equipment as well

[jolly gorge]

catalyst pistol

[jolly gorge]

I agree, yes, god forbid. That weapon should be better for a specific build, and not for literally everyone like kin hammer is.

kin hammer isnt a massive problem because it is the singular example of straight upgrades, but if it happened more often then builds would be a snoozefest

[rocky hawk]

alt frames call to me again

deaths head alt that doesnt let you ignore ordinance?

[jolly gorge]

oleander is a good one that doesnt let you ignore ordnance

[rocky hawk]

it does let you ignore ordance

[jolly gorge]

oh fr lol

oh my I am blind

lmao

[rocky hawk]

i lvoe oleander but

[jolly gorge]

yeah it is right there lol

[rocky hawk]

the idea is you can ricochette your shots

[jolly gorge]

to re-draw lines?

is cool yeah

[rocky hawk]

you hit somebody and you can draw the rest of the line or range from them to a second target

[jolly gorge]

banshee is a death's head alt from thy hubris manifest that does that

[rocky hawk]

only 1 bounce, you can get more if you core

ah fuck does it?

i cant make that then

[jolly gorge]

well it doesnt ping it off people

it pings it off of its special portals

[rocky hawk]

oh what does it do i dont have thy hubris

ok thats different enough

[jolly gorge]

this is how it pings lines

it makes a void tear and it can either invert a line's tangibility or ping the line off of it

[rocky hawk]

hmm is that too similar then?

[jolly gorge]

I mean meh it depends oin what the rest of the mech does

it can be made to be different

[rocky hawk]

the ricochette was gonna be the main point

you get a second attack for free

well sort of

the idea is that you can continue the line after it hits and sort of bounce it around

[jolly gorge]

I mean yeah ricochets arent a unique enough thing to be monopolized by anything in particular

bounder class comp/con does it

so long as its other traits are unique the mech is plenty unique

[rocky hawk]

it wasnt even gonna have a ton of other stuff

cause a free second attack is pretty high on budget

[jolly gorge]

I think you can give it a lot of budget back if you make it deal half damage and add some other thing to it

so like total damage to enemy team is the same as if you had just fired the gun at one person

[rocky hawk]

maybe make it count as one attack

[jolly gorge]

but there are a lot of situations in which your gun would overkill someone, and so it opens up the possibility of easier double kills

[rocky hawk]

that would let you do some weird things

[jolly gorge]

it would make core siphon much better for the mech

[rocky hawk]

yeah

[jolly gorge]

I have a ricochet system in my lcp that allows you to hit two people with one shot and the shot does half damage to each

the guy in our game that has it uses it quite a lot

it is fundamentally useful

[gloomy lotus]

Lich?

[jolly gorge]

oh speaking of bela did you read my death's head alt?

[rocky hawk]

the leaf?

[jolly gorge]

ye

idk if it warrants existing yet

it's just a concept

[rocky hawk]

yeah i thought it was cool

the adding loading is fun

[jolly gorge]

neat

[rocky hawk]

lets you supercharge some weapons

[jolly gorge]

I had considered making it not count as bonus damge so it can be not halved on the railgun but that felt excessive

[jolly gorge]

I, personally at least, think making the ricochet into a tool that isnt just outright more damage but instead deals net neutral damage and allows you to add more to the mechs power budget and makes it more interesting to play and build

[rocky hawk]

yeah i agree

[jolly gorge]

on hit effects and things of the sort like heavy gunner 2 are very very strong, so net neutral damage but hitting an extra person is VERY useful

[rocky hawk]

wording so far

using Belle as a test name because the moth is pretty and its funny

might be Lead Belle in the end who knows

theres also a Bella one

but is this wording even vaugly comprehensable

line weapons are still ranged yes?

[jolly gorge]

yes they are

just say "when making a ranged attack" I think

has a bit of an odd effect with blast

like do we ping it off of them and then the blast detonates at the end of the pings?

[rocky hawk]

yeah at the end

but its would do full half all the way

but how do we feel about the active wording

[jolly gorge]

that is the objectively correct interpretation

[rocky hawk]

Skirmish. is funny to me

[jolly gorge]

but it might take some thinking that lancer players may not be capable of

[jolly gorge]

ur gonna have to specify like "then skirmish as a part of this action" or something lol

[rocky hawk]

fuck

really?

i think i knew that but

Skirmish.

is just so funny to me

[jolly gorge]

the best way to interpret that is the way you intend it to be interpreted

but it does leave room for misinterpretation that isnt worth having lol

[rocky hawk]

true

1d3 too much?

maybe jsut 1

i think its gonna get a negative trait

[jolly gorge]

I mean at low levels 1d3 is reasonable since crits are hard

at high levels that is REALLY good lol

[rocky hawk]

yeah

[jolly gorge]

that scales really hard

[rocky hawk]

1 it is then

[jolly gorge]

yeah I think best to do 1

[rocky hawk]

the temptation to make it size 1/2

but i already have Black Mountain so,

[jolly gorge]

you can also make it so when it crits, it ignrores heat (self) of a weapon

instead of clearing heat outright

that is situationally much better

and situationally worse

[rocky hawk]

i agree but i think the synergy with nuclear cav is better this way

[jolly gorge]

they just have so much aura

[rocky hawk]

espeically cause you can stack 1/round damage bonuses

size 1/2 mech that ignores cover and uses line weapons in the sixth voice?

i cant

not again

[jolly gorge]

lol

converging on a mech you have already made while making an alt is an agonizing experience

the Nail from my LCP suffered from that so hard I am just straight up making it a caliban alt lmao

moving not only to a new license but to a new manufacturer

[rocky hawk]

hmm needs one more trait and then a downside

might just do like

fragile

[jolly gorge]

gasp plagiarism

MY DH alt has fragile

smh

[rocky hawk]

i should clearly give it a way to get overshield

[jolly gorge]

lmao

[kindred prairie]

tunnel vision, you can't attack enemies within range 5 with ranged weapon because you're too occupied lining up the perfect ricochet

[jolly gorge]

that is a good idea but I've also seen that like

4 times

it is a good downside trait tho

[rocky hawk]

more than youve seen fragile?

[jolly gorge]

yeah but fragile is like fundamentally basic

fragile is intended to be basic lol

but like this artillery mech cant target characters within x range is unique enough to be notable when I've seen it 4 times

isn't really a bad thing to not have a unique downside trait

lmao

[rocky hawk]

is fragile and 1 armor anacronystic

[jolly gorge]

I was just mentioning that it had a lot

[rocky hawk]

isnt or its

[jolly gorge]

isnt

whoops

[jolly gorge]

I dont really think so, maybe in flavoring but not really in gameplay

hull checks being provoked through structures are quite rarwe

fragile is mostly a downside for hostile induced things like demo hammer

and you can technically flavor it to make sense by just changing the trait name to brittle

[jolly gorge]

which is also an AP weapon

[jolly gorge]

ok I need to crash out about this people using exposed reactor as a trait to bully you for "flying too close to the sun" with your heat or fragile to bully you for getting structured if you arent careful

THAT IS NOT WHAT THOSE TRAITS DO

ENGI CHECKS AND HULL CHECKS ARE SO RARELY PROVOKED BY STRESS AND STRUCTURE

[rocky hawk]

this is so real

exposed reactor is a punishment for getting burn

how do we feel about this so far

[jolly gorge]

save target 8

?

[rocky hawk]

doesnt use it

[jolly gorge]

but my beloved crackshot

this is deranged

[rocky hawk]

okay yeah fair it does want crackshot

but i wanna cut some other stat then

[jolly gorge]

yes lol why is it so damn bulky

[rocky hawk]

-1 tech attack with 15 sensors feels weird

[jolly gorge]

hp 8 armor 1 evas 10 is excellent base bulk

[rocky hawk]

oh i forgot to cut the armor

thats meant to be 0

[jolly gorge]

the way I did it with my DH alt is I flipped the e-def and evas

but that one has hiding so it was easier to justify doing that

but I do think an artillery that isnt as vulnerable to e-war is good

so tragic that you cant slow it down to speed 4 cuz SSC are freaks

[rocky hawk]

save of 10, reduce tech attack to -1

[jolly gorge]

a tragedy

[rocky hawk]

sensors is still 15

and yeah for all 1 person who uses that

[jolly gorge]

listen tracking bug does suck ass

but it is dubious to put tech - 1 on a mech with a tech attack in its license

[rocky hawk]

yeah, you are right

sensors to 10 then

it doesnt use em

Gemini doesnt use sensors at all

[jolly gorge]

as long as its base stats are just not outright better than DH that is what matters

they dont have to be worse

and they dont really have to be particularly different

the mechs are just doing different thigns

[finite wyvern]

(slams fists) BELLA

[jolly gorge]

Lycan and manticore have extremely similar base stats but are not at all comparable

[finite wyvern]

I HAVE A DEMAND

[rocky hawk]

YES

[finite wyvern]

GIVE ME A BLACKBERAD ALT

[rocky hawk]

the plan is nelson for ipsn

[finite wyvern]

BUT ITS A SUPPORT OR STRIKER

Fuck

[rocky hawk]

BLACKBEARD HAS ONE

[finite wyvern]

two

[rocky hawk]

two?????

[jolly gorge]

Nelson erasure

[finite wyvern]

two

[jolly gorge]

good

we need more LCP's that indirectly erase nelson

I fundamentally agree with this action

[finite wyvern]

nelson is cool but

[rocky hawk]

its gonna be worse than nelson sorry

[finite wyvern]

sadge

nelson isnt even bad

[jolly gorge]

how is that even possible

[finite wyvern]

it's just

ok im not gonna talk about it enough yapping about balance

[jolly gorge]

nelson is so deeply mid

[rocky hawk]

identical with no damage bonus

[rocky hawk]

yap about balance of the alt frame

[finite wyvern]

TL;DR the fast frame doesnt actually go that fast or get enough rewardw from slamming into you

[rocky hawk]

im curious

[finite wyvern]

That's literally it

It doesnt need to be more complicated

[jolly gorge]

oh no the nelson does haul ass

but its bonus d6 blows

yeah it doesnt do much while hauling ass

[finite wyvern]

Bonus d6 is fine

[rocky hawk]

its fast but not as fast as everest

[jolly gorge]

no the bonus d6 is the worst bonus d6 in the game

[finite wyvern]

Yeah poitn is the reward for hauling ass isnt that big

[rocky hawk]

free boost !

[finite wyvern]

and you can simply just invest in agi on like blackbeard and reach the same speeds

that's my ted talk

thank you thirdcomm members

[jolly gorge]

uh

[finite wyvern]

wait

[jolly gorge]

no you cant do that lol

[finite wyvern]

uh

[rocky hawk]

no more nelson discorse

[finite wyvern]

without core power

[jolly gorge]

nelson skirmisher can EASILY give you + 6 spaces of movement for free lol

[finite wyvern]

true true

[jolly gorge]

without core power

[finite wyvern]

yeah skrimisher can

i guess skirmisher is good

i keep underestimating it

[jolly gorge]

fine

my glorious king madden

[finite wyvern]

now here is my presentation on nelson 2 nelson harder

it has 6 speed

but is identical

in every other way

[jolly gorge]

(field guide to suldan, Nelson flight type)

[finite wyvern]

(my goat)

(I love flying nelson)

No no see this is different

it's nelson

but 6 speed

okay so my other idea for an alt frame could be

(checks list)

[rocky hawk]

kobold and like

saladin are the current plans

[finite wyvern]

saladin but it has a big gun

please god

[rocky hawk]

nvm i lied its probably sunzi

[finite wyvern]

i will do anything for striker saladin

or striker sunzi

please bella

[jolly gorge]

I HAVE WANTED TO ALT SUNZI FOR A WHILE

[finite wyvern]

i beg

[jolly gorge]

still zero ideas

[jolly gorge]

have you heard of the glorious Cassin?

[rocky hawk]

okay how about this, when it moves/teleports a character they gain a charge (like that once emperor spark system) then at the end of that characters turn they detonate a burst around them

so you move allies around and give them like, 3 damage aoes

[jolly gorge]

gotta have some integrated way of moving people

[rocky hawk]

of course

[jolly gorge]

so depends on how it does that

but this is sounding like black mountain 2.0 to me

[rocky hawk]

no oversheild

[jolly gorge]

uhhuh

not sure if I believe you bela

you have like a 50% overshield rate

[rocky hawk]

what about, when you involuntarily move someone they take 2 damage

[jolly gorge]

that is iskander's active

Death Cloud
This system fires an enormous, expanding cloud of micromines across the whole battlefield, affecting all hostile characters within range 50. For the rest of the scene, when hostile characters make any movement other than their standard move (including involuntary movement), they take 3 AP explosive damage. This effect can trigger any number of times, but only 1/round for each character.

ok goodbye I must GM

[finite wyvern]

que

[jolly gorge]

a mech from my LCP

[finite wyvern]

maybe u gain a charge

instad

and then you go impact for bonus damage

[jolly gorge]

sacrifices the ability to move enemies in exchange for damage

so it moves allies and does damage

instead of moving everyone

[rocky hawk]

yeah, build up a dice like gilg

what if reposition reaction only worked if the attack that missed you was made from a lower elevation

to support mag clamps and tactician

also technically you can set it up so that even with gemini you can hit multiple people with the line

[lusty steppe]

hmmm what idea did you have for kobold?

[rocky hawk]

None yet, I just think it has the most room for an alt

[lusty steppe]

I see

[finite wyvern]

but a little dice

that you burn quckly

[rocky hawk]

like a 1d3

[finite wyvern]

ye

[craggy hinge]

A more tech attack oriented kobold alt would be fucking awesome

[rocky hawk]

hmm that was what i was thinking

maybe do a chain thing where if they move away from a designated point of terrain, you they gain heat and take some damage

[finite wyvern]

I did do a Kobold alt once

Which was really weird

Gunslinger striker that focused on using terrain and control to line up the perfect shot

[dense cedar]

I love doing forced movement thing

[wintry imp]

I definitely would like to see something with a caliban alt but I have... no idea what that could be

[fair slate]

There's also that bounder class comp con exotic from winter scar that does the ricochet thing.

[rocky hawk]

Bounder is mechanically very different

But I think Gemini charge in its current form is fine

[rocky hawk]

Nelson alt proto idea

1/round, when you knock a hostile character prone, you may have them take 1d6 kinetic damage.

Synergizes with warpike through duelist and power knuckles

The hope is that it is more versatile d6 damage ability while not quite being amber phantom free

The actual nelson liscence doesn't really super care about going hyper speed and is more of a ram/ knockback engine

For its secondary ability/passive i was thinking like, 1/round, after you boost, you may immediately ram an adjacent character as a free action. If you do, you take 2 ap kinetic damage

Like you are headbutting

Just smashing into them

Core active of like, jumping up into the air and body slamming an area

Forcing them to make a hull save or be knocked prone and taking damage in a burst 2 with a bit of movement involved

Maybe make the area difficult terrain

[gloomy lotus]

Ain’t that kinda like the ram trait

[rocky hawk]

Sort of

But it's entirely triggerable with no ram

[gloomy lotus]

Fair

[rocky hawk]

I feel like it's a little boring

The free ram while funny is benign and bland

I like the core of smashing into people but

Needs something still

[rocky hawk]

Also for the deaths head alt proper name, been thinking about lead belle, Vestal, chestnut, streamer

[rocky hawk]

Currently leaning towards lovers knot cause of the Gemini thing

Maybe lutestring too

[unkempt iron]

Ouuugh deaths head alt, save me deaths head alt

Also the whispering of kobold and sunzi alt frames has me frothing at the mouth

[rocky hawk]

Lovers Knot is the current name for it

[unkempt iron]

OMNOMNOMNOM

Overshield would be nutty on that alt Nelson. Like borrowing from caliban 3 or something

[rocky hawk]

i cant do more overshield...

[unkempt iron]

Just eating the headbutt damage

[unkempt iron]

No i mean like through other license levels

[rocky hawk]

im not sure if the heatbut will stay, its just

a little boring?

[unkempt iron]

Maybe a little bit the license feels a little odd to begin with

[rocky hawk]

maybe you can headbut but instead of being a free ram its like,

extra knockback?

like, 1/round when you ram, you make take 2 ap kinetic damage. If you do, you deal +2 additional knockback.

[unkempt iron]

I was gonna suggest some kind of impact debuff but thats just caliban

[rocky hawk]

yeah

[unkempt iron]

Idk the self damage feels steep for how situational the knockback will be

I also personally am never huge on knockback melee without the Nelson's little zippy dash movements

[rocky hawk]

so knockback is traditionally directly away from you, what if this let you choose the direction fully

like you hit a guy with warpike and hes knocked back right next to you

[jolly gorge]

The best idea I came up with for a caliban alt is a mech that move slides to people it overwatches, and counts as size 3 for engagement, so it overwatches and then stops them in their tracks with engagement.

kinda not geat with the hammer but it work wit da cannibal

[jolly gorge]

in order for this to be consistently useful it kinda needs a heavy mount?

so you can barrage with a war pike on a person that is not within threat of your heavy melee, but the war pike brings them into threat of your heavy

cuz if its main/aux flex then the aux's are thrown 5 anyways cuz be fr we're taking hunter

[rocky hawk]

i dont think not having the heavy really matters

[jolly gorge]

You can absolujtely give it a heavy

but ye I think it needs one

[rocky hawk]

plus you have to be adjacent to ram so

you still benefit from that

you get the duelist free ram

[jolly gorge]

sure but if we're dragging them in just to ram with additional knockback and like, send them away, why did we ever drag them in

I think a mech that is able to knock people around in any direction and then has things it places to want to knock people in weird directions is good

thy hubris manfiest does this with the knucleave by having it create difficult terrain when it boosts

[rocky hawk]

you dont think it could even just pass as a striker controller?

knocking people around and prone

[jolly gorge]

I dont think prone is worthy of being called controller

knocking people around is yes

but I do kinda think that, without skirmisher, ramjets are quite hard to get a lot out of and move people in a bunch of weird directions though

like you can make it work for sure

I just kinda think that nelson's skirmisher, in a way, grants it the ability to knock people back in any direction

since it can hit them, knock them back, and reposition to have directly away from itself be in a new direction

maybe Im wrong tho Im not particularly confident in this stance

[rocky hawk]

i mean maybe if you ignore obstructions

and the very limited otpions that 1 base extra movment gives

[jolly gorge]

idk man with skirmisher + hunter flight it's pretty feasible lol

[rocky hawk]

but thats a lot of investment

[jolly gorge]

skirmisher as in nelson trait

not the talent

hunter is not investment it is a requirement on a nelson

it is the correct choice

I dont know if I fully trust the usefulness of it due ot the way ramjets are restricted but Im not super confident in it actually being hard to use so I will wait to see what the mech actually is

[rocky hawk]

is ramjet actually restricted?

[jolly gorge]

well you have to move all of your movement when you move

that is pretty restrictive

[rocky hawk]

not sure if it would be much moreso on this frame

[jolly gorge]

I managed to mnake ramjets work very consistently on an orchis setup, but that was 5 talent points to get it consistent

and it did do knockback 19

[unkempt iron]

Maybe it adds knockback and you choose the direction of that? Like the initial one from the pike is away and then the plus two can be in a direction of your choice?

[jolly gorge]

that does allow you to push people around corners

which can be VERY mean lol

[unkempt iron]

Yeahh

Or the additional knockback makes them deal damage to terrain as they go to punch through terrain and walls

[rocky hawk]

could just say your knockback can be in any direction and does not have to be in a straight line?

[jolly gorge]

yeah I mean that is very diabolical

[unkempt iron]

Oh that would be cool

[rocky hawk]

would it lose the damage trait?

[unkempt iron]

Teehee dd288 making them spin in a circle for no reason

[jolly gorge]

if it is supposed to be as strong as nelson, yes

but I presume we're trying to be better than the middest of mid

[rocky hawk]

size 2 controller striker

[jolly gorge]

I mean it can very comfortably just push into controller more than striker, flex flex with a bonus d6, and that good controller trait with some extra controlling like some sort of free prones or smth

[unkempt iron]

I often like cool weird traits over extra damage traits

[jolly gorge]

can also do what I did with cassin and replace a bonus d6 with an integrated mount if you want it to have a some strange trigger or want to put an action on it

though I dont fully see a reason for that here

[unkempt iron]

Im not sure what an integrated would do for this specifically that the traits, license weapons, and talents wouldn't do, yeah

[rocky hawk]

alright so far it has the knockback in any direction and not straight line

and 1/round 1 melee has +2 knockback

what else should this do

maybe a 1/round, when you hit a character smaller than you, they gotta save or be knocked prone?

[wintry imp]

I like this

[jolly gorge]

the only questionable bit here is the passive

[unkempt iron]

Ooo neat

[jolly gorge]

we are honestly frail as hell lol

we kinda DONT want people right next to us lol

HP 8 armor 1 evas 8 on a melee attacker is pretty sketchy

and we arent particularly quick

[jolly gorge]

I dont mean you should improve the bulk

but I dont know if the passive gets used much due to fear of being next to people

though it is very strong, a completely free slow is kinda evil

so a bit sketchy to use but the reward is there

[rocky hawk]

The passive is honestly a placeholder

I just needed something

[jolly gorge]

yeah I kinda figured

finally, an IPS-N mech that isnt hypersonic

[rocky hawk]

I might give it a second armor

And find a weaker passive

[jolly gorge]

that feels reasonable

to be fair the knockback is a VERY strong survivability trait, indirectly

but like people are bad

and probably need an extra armor

[jolly gorge]

you can bully anything with ordnance SO hard

[rocky hawk]

That's like 2 NPCs

but ok, whats a better passive for this thing

[rocky hawk]

what about instead of slowed, just knocked back 1

[jolly gorge]

• templates

2 in core book I think

but first party has more than 2

[jolly gorge]

give it shock claws

that are permanently ruined

[rocky hawk]

okay but like

still weaker than empakaii

[jolly gorge]

I mean yeah if they're threat 1 that could force them to provoke ur overwatch

but I dont think I can name a threat 1 melee NPC

[rocky hawk]

berzerker

[jolly gorge]

it also allows you to move them around which could be convenient but forcing them to activate ur overwatch is the much stronger effect

[jolly gorge]

oh true I guess the harpoon cannon isnt a base weapon is it

I always run it

cuz if they have that they can barrage to cannon themselves within range for the chain axe

yeah it's a small passive but not useless

[kindred prairie]

How busted of trait would a trait that lets you dash in place but allow you to apply the distance you would have moved to enemies in let's say a brust 2 - AoE Damage though fall damage but you have to forego your move.
Like you dash toward the earth and the shockwave ripples and sends npc up

[jolly gorge]

so a speed 7 boost does 7 AP kinetic damage in a burst 2

?

[rocky hawk]

i could see it

maybe no damage but it can knock people prone fi they fail the save?

[kindred prairie]

Na nevermind, I misremembered the rules for fall damage and though it started at 1 dmg for a fall of 3 spaces, incrementing by 1 damage for each space over that threshold

[jolly gorge]

yeah no it's 3/3 6/6 9/9

[kindred prairie]

AoE prone in exchange for a move doesn't seem much of a cost on a nelson

[rocky hawk]

it would be burst 1

probably have some self damage

but ill figure it out later

[jolly gorge]

if you want to have it scale with speed you could have like, the amount of mkovement you gave up divided by 2 is subtracted by the saves they make to stop the prone

better ways to word that

[rocky hawk]

id just make it a quick action

[jolly gorge]

but a way to have it scale with speed

yeah fair

[rocky hawk]

i had someone say spatial was too strong, im not sure how true that is

[jolly gorge]

it really could be lol

[misty lance]

It might be with that mount setup. Main/Aux and two Flexes is a lot of firepower. Then again that’s probably to prevent Superheavy Mounting, right?

[rocky hawk]

yeah

[jolly gorge]

I mean adding an extra flex is really hardly a good thing

99% of its usefulness comes from having a blowoff mount basically

or like, autogun/autopod

[jolly gorge]

what is the motivation to prevent superheavy mounting on this mech tho?

[rocky hawk]

heavy gunner off turn knockback shenanigans

[jolly gorge]

heavy gunner is heavies not sheavies

[rocky hawk]

dd288

[jolly gorge]

that one makes more sense

[jolly gorge]

right?

Im not crazy am i

[jolly gorge]

still a shit load less knockback than a ramjet build will do but the big single number with the non-straight line rule is excessive yeah

[rocky hawk]

it is but a heavy mount would still el tyou

[jolly gorge]

but you cant put a heavy on the sheavy mount

heavy gunny says "heavy ranged weapon"

[rocky hawk]

oh you mean just cutting one for the core bonus

[jolly gorge]

there is zero way to acquire one of thos ewithoiut a heavy mount

[jolly gorge]

I just didnt fully grasp the motive behind not letting it have an sheavy mounting core bonus

yeah

D/D-288 makes more sense though

cuz putting Sheavy mounting on this mech is objectively a horrible play if it had main/aux flex

except d/d-288 knockback 10 not in a straight line is rude

[jolly gorge]

I do think believing the non-straight lines part of the trait to be excessive is reasonable

it is worth testing but I do think it is a very reasonable take lol

[rocky hawk]

do you agree with that take?

[jolly gorge]

uh

I'm inclined to

I didn't mention it since it was my opinion that just having knockback go in a new direction isn't particularly convenient with the way ramjets functions

You could have it be able to push people around in any direction, then 1/round it can force a save and if they fail it then it can violate straight lines

that is a significant increase to the complexity of the ability

but it is a middle ground

[rocky hawk]

i think i like that

[jolly gorge]

yeah it's not excessively wordy

which is the primary concern

[finite wyvern]

bretty solid

I dont really like the hull save

feels clunky

oh wait no i

alkdjflkadsj

i see now

[rocky hawk]

so hull save is fine?

[unreal crypt]

Yeah I think it’s fair

[unkempt iron]

Its so cool watching you all stand around like a council of scheming wizards coming up with new weird war crime machines

You have a grasp of frame balance that makes my head hurt

[rocky hawk]

all it does is slam you REALLY hard

[unkempt iron]

Yeah but more like, balancing the stats with the traits and stuff

[rocky hawk]

Lovers knot is like, one of my favorites ever

[unkempt iron]

Figuring out what needs to get fiddled with on evasion, armor, hp, all that

[rocky hawk]

its a complex machine

[unkempt iron]

My 13 year old brother who plays in my campaign is going to ruin my life with it

[jolly gorge]

what is?

[unkempt iron]

He's playing a plasma thrower supermassive Pegasus rn and is obsessed with fucked up line weapons and big dopamine multikill turns

God forbid I let him see the lovers knot

[rocky hawk]

the new deaths head alt

[unkempt iron]

Wait for its passive vs core, Im a bit confused

[rocky hawk]

for shackleton both are quick action

[unkempt iron]

For the passive, it could fire the railgun at someone ten spaces away, and then redirect another ten spaces to someone else

For the core active, is it springboarding line 20 shots off of each target?

The distance reduction line is throwing me a bit

[rocky hawk]

yep! but it can only do it 4 times total and cant repeat targets

its powerful for sure but you are still only doing half damage

[unkempt iron]

Yeahh

ap will be especially relevant there im guessing

[rocky hawk]

the active may be nerfed

[unkempt iron]

Since the damage is already lower

Im rubbing my chin and vacantly smiling trying to imagining a Bela Classic™️ alt frame for kobold

The salamander feels so perfect for the license I keep forgetting its not the main one, and the weird invisible shit bugger is the main one

[rocky hawk]

@everyone playtest about now, if anyone here is interested

ll6

[unreal crypt]

At work rn 🥲

[rocky hawk]

good news a playtest might be happening some time tomorrow morning

not sure on the specific times but ill ping

[gloomy lotus]

Yippie

[kindred prairie]

I'll join if I can but Im prety sure timezone will prevent me from participating... again 😔

[craggy hinge]

Praying I can join

[rocky hawk]

It would start in like 30

We will see if it even happens

[gloomy lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/yippee-happy-celebration-joy-confetti-gif-25557730

[wary topaz]

oh i hope i can join, last time i was out of the house

[rocky hawk]

im in uh

hous

horus

[atomic plume]

have fun1

[finite wyvern]

Bella I have something unfortunate to tell you

Someone did this

Already

As a homebrew Nelson alt

[rocky hawk]

?????

who

[finite wyvern]

Sobeski from DPOK

Has almost the same gimmick

Therea re still difference showever

It m

[rocky hawk]

yeah i actually talked to the person who made it when discussing shackleton

[finite wyvern]

oh great!!!

ok no problem then continue on

I just was more checking if you were aware

[limber maple]

Nobody has dibs on concepts, anyways. Sometimes convergent design happens, and that's okay.

[jolly gorge]

yeah but it is best practice to not do the same thing, not due to plagiarism but due to a desire to make something unique

though the shackleton and sobeski are very different

so doesnt apply here

[limber maple]

IMO, just by virtue of their being so much homebrew out there, it's going to be hard to make something that comes across as entirely unique.