Pilot Net megagame testing

[hearty yew]

so anyone next to the jackals will heal 2

[dim spade]

Yeah I'm trying to decide who to Cloudburst at this point

I don't think Autoguns will do me much good

[spare bay]

Would the support units just be dropping wherever the Armored Companies go? Both Wizard and I can't make it back into space until T4, so you guys will be dropping without us, probably

[dim spade]

I will say that like

Playtest wise

the air equipment feels very lackluster

[slow copper]

It depends on how aggressive we want to be. But Potentially? We could wait until T5 to drop if we want all the combat units to drop

Well, three of them since one needs to repair

[spare bay]

the thing is, even if you don't do much damage because of the fortification value, when it comes to who retreats, the only thing that matters is the number of hits

so I feel like two armored companies should be able to dislodge a single enemy unit

assuming we go for a southern city

otherwise, dropping into Saginaw asap would be better than waiting (but we'll have to see how things pan out to be sure)

[slow copper]

Dropping on Topinabee would be funny in terms of Sending a Message. Our drop forces stopping 3 attempts at reinforcing a location would be quite funny

[willow ferry]

:)

sadly im not up to dropping as were not fully ready due to casualties

but was there any way for me to get into orbit now?

[slow copper]

You have to move next to the airbase unfortunately

[willow ferry]

oh so within two turns i can get into orbit right?

[slow copper]

Yeah

And resting in orbit heals the same as a FOB

[willow ferry]

hmmm i think i might need to go to orbit so that on turn 6 we can make a better assault on a certain tile

[unique sequoia]

I need to take a look at the map, but I'm thinking rn if I should build twice
Half a base where I am, half a FOB on our spaceport

Is something menacing the city's north?

[vocal scarab]

Not really, but we'll (eventually) be getting forces from the northwest

[hard lance]

Looks like my targets are AK10 or AJ11 if I opt to bombard again? IIRC I can’t do it into AL10 because there’s a friendly unit in there

Though I can also bring either the hunter killers to bear with either supportive or suppressive fire at range 4

Which is enough to hit pretty much everything nearby except the base node on AN12

[icy linden]

@wind yacht

Why is there still a ?

Or it's passing by my 2 vision

Mh dumb idea

Skirmish at 10AK

We force this force to split

Anyone wanna back me up in this silly fight?

[willow ferry]

d love to but sadly im on the other side of the map :(

[icy linden]

Soften up as I pin them maybe?

I'm planning on attacking into AK10 break up the line

[heady moat]

Hell yeah we're back in business baby

dodged the Condor intercept too, damn i'm smart

[heady moat]

but yeah if we wanna play risky, I'm up for hitting Topinabee, I can reach all the way to the city even without Drop Tanks

(or either of the southern cities with drop tanks)

[lyric harbor]

here's my move for which I would like @vocal scarab and one other person's help

although if you're not [S] and Light you might not make it in time

but I wanna hit that tile before the injured units can potentially retreat

[wanton ermine]

I do not think fully pulling out the combat units from muskegon is wise tbh, why would the coalition be bringing troop carriers if they weren't expecting to be able to retake the city

or at least have a solid shot at it

[heady moat]

they're coming to Topinabee, not Muskegon

[wanton ermine]

oh I can't read

[heady moat]

don't worry I think you're like the third person to make that mistake

[willow ferry]

i need to rest either way and i think having a tank brigade might help disuade others for going there

[wanton ermine]

hmm, I don't think it's likely for us to be able to hotdrop and take muskegon before the reinforcements get there, much as I really would like to

[willow ferry]

topinabee?

we already have muskagon

[heady moat]

how about the southern cities? we win if we take two cities, and both only have one unit

[willow ferry]

two droptroops might do the job

[heady moat]

i might only be airstriking them with a 2d6 because of "the risk of civilian casualties" but that could rack up to a point or two before our drop troops get there

[willow ferry]

me and someone else with drop capabilities on turn 6 will do so then

[wanton ermine]

yes that one

[willow ferry]

ok so im assuming i cant get into orbit from the muskagon airport

[spare bay]

I don't think it makes sense to divert any firepower up there. The enemies are too heavily concentrated for a random airstrike to have any real effect. The focus for the Saginaw units should be defending Saginaw.

The Muskegon units have time to reassess largely because they don't have any other choice but to lift back into space this turn.

[sweet cobalt]

Airlift should let us get from any FOB or airfield to space. So Muskegon airfield should work

[willow ferry]

alrighty then, any idea what the series of orders should be?

[spare bay]

the two of us need to move adjacent to it, the other four can lift back into space immediately

then we decide if they should drop ahead of us on T4 or not

[willow ferry]

i think one engineer and heavy unit could stay

that way we are much more set to defend ourselves in muskagon

[spare bay]

That's up to Tohu. But leaving behind a heavy would be a massive waste. Waiting for you to repair means delaying a coordinated drop until T6, which would be a massive loss of tempo.

[willow ferry]

indeed

then i guess the starhoppers could stay behind

[spare bay]

I think 2 heavies dropping together should make a major impact. One dropping alone though won't do nearly as much

[blazing basalt]

We have no enemies coming to reclaim musk, and if Intel shows any of them, we'll have time to readjust to them then

We've got enough real enemies we don't need to go chasing phantoms

[spare bay]

@wind yacht Does the Muskegon Airfield apply a rest bonus like a normal temp base?

if so, then the order of lift > rest or rest > lift doesn't really matter

but yeah, the rest of us need to get moving

[heady moat]

yeah since we know the reinforcementts arrive at Topinabee at the end of round 5, we can probably safely assume we have full intel until then

[blazing basalt]

(I suppose there's invisible units outside Saginaw, but even repositioning to the max means they shouldn't be a concern until t5)

[spare bay]

Scouts would be the main fear

someone else noted we haven't seen them yet, which means they're probably somewhere inconvenient

[blazing basalt]

(And if a single scout runs off to retake the city, we slam a single drop pod onto their head and call it good.)

[spare bay]

well, we also need good timing for that to work, but I think the fact that mine and wizard's drops will be staggered after the heavies mean we should be okay for a few turns at least

[blazing basalt]

We have bears trying to eat our face, we don't need to worry about a raccoon trying to steal our garbage

[spare bay]

hrm, I feel like enemy Scouts' Hide shouldn't let them move on the same turn. They're already so fast, and it's not like Conceal lets you move.

[wind yacht]

Yes it does

[spare bay]

oh nice

[willow ferry]

wait muskegon A to the Spaceport is 9 right, or could we just go tthere straight away?

[spare bay]

say again?

The Muskegon and Saginaw ports are 10 spaces away from each other, meaning we can't airlift directly between them, if that's what you were asking.

[willow ferry]

yes that is what i was asking

[spare bay]

going back into space gives us more flexibility anyways. We'll have to see how the situation develops this turn before deciding where to land next turn.

[blazing basalt]

Go to space, hope the rest of the battle group doesn't die, drop somewhere helpful two turns from now

[floral patio]

We've seen and killed one in Saginaw

[spare bay]

Are you talking about the Vanguard?

[worthy pelican]

AL10 should be valid, the friendly there is an air unit so that doesn't block bombard.

AL10 is a prime bombardment target IMO - there's only 3 HP between the two units left there, so there's a good chance that bombardment can finish them off.

[floral patio]

Ok so looking at the rules

[worthy pelican]

Which would make the Saginaw front feel much more secure

[floral patio]

I have to S stance move to get away it looks like

Since any other movement has a good chance of getting caught

[spare bay]

since Airlift is so slow as an R order? What even dealt so much damage to you anyways?

[floral patio]

Fighting

They got a ton of extra dice from air support and they rolled well

[blazing basalt]

Rest might restore your hp before any fighting now

[worthy pelican]

From a game design perspective, I think this would be a fine situation. It means you need to actually assault to break dug in units, which puts some value on building momentum and discourages static turtling as an offensive tactic. (As you note, it would be a strong defensive tactic, which makes sense IMO.) It is also fairly diegetic, it's difficult to fully kill a fortified defensive position through artillery alone.

[floral patio]

If rest heals me first I'll just do that

[worthy pelican]

I think it would also make some organizational sense for rest to happen at the same step as fortification increase

[spare bay]

Damn, the A stance reinforce is actually cracked

[hard lance]

@icy linden @worthy pelican I'm happy to tackle either AK10 or AL10 depending on what folks thinks would be tactically beneficial based on other deployments.

[spare bay]

ironically, this seems to be the current NPC tactic. Hell, they A stance reinforced right next to the city instead of assaulting into it. Their current strategy is to stall until they assemble a large enough force to roll over the city.

[worthy pelican]

Mhm, makes sense.

[spare bay]

Unless everyone focuses fire on the crossroads again, you're unlikely to deal much damage because I'm guessing they will Reinforce again. You'd need to deal 3 or 4 damage to have a chance at killing the Sentinel.

Trying to weaken the Vanguard probably makes more sense. It's a more vulnerable target (isolated, no terrain), and it's more important to weaken it since it's at full HP, so we can reduce the amount of dice it rolls.

[slow copper]

Btw, you don't have to move (unless you want to of course). So you can just build a base instead of two halfsies

[hard lance]

Sounds good, I'll give it until tomorrow morning to see if things change

[spare bay]

The lone Breacher in AM10 could also be a good target. My understanding is that their armor only works in combat, so it shouldn't protect against Bombard/Airstrike

[wind yacht]

Healing will happen at the same step as fortification

[floral patio]

@wind yacht one suggestion for future maybe to let people move one when they rest? It'll happen at the end of movement anyway, but spending the double turn to move away from Frontline and then rest feels pretty bad, and units almost never recuperate on actual Frontlines in combat

[wind yacht]

Fixed. It's a rocket artillery

[floral patio]

They'll hgave changed formation potentially to other stuff like A stance

[icy linden]

I have a dumb idea

for a hit and run

hahaha

[floral patio]

GOOD LUCK!

Don't die

Lmao

[lyric harbor]

share with the class

[icy linden]

Option 1 is to skirmish into AL10 and break the column,

I skirmish to pin them and friends assault them

Option 2 is AK10 and just

bully the artillery

but it looks heavily guarded

[dim spade]

I will ask again btw

which guys south of the city are getting bombarded, if any?

I'd like to Cloudburst them this sortie

[floral patio]

I think that AL10 probably is

[heady moat]

yeah AL10 is probably the likeliest spot to get bombarded the following turn, but it's also within enemy SAM range

here's the danger zone for it, I'm willing to hit a target in there because I can nullify at least one hit from it, but I recommend caution for any other air units

[dim spade]

Hrmmmmm

[heady moat]

honestly you might best off repeating last turn? the enemy has a shitton of air units now, and that keeps you away from SAM range

[floral patio]

We also just have a ton of ground units that can bombard

But yeah I vote for Heavy Patrol this ground

[trail fractal]

Alternate suggestion, if the opposition is moving in from Topinabee, you could delay them:

[dim spade]

Yeah the thing is if I Cloudburst all those Bombards get +1d6

and that would probably gurantee kills

[floral patio]

You can Patrol and it still triggers Cloudburst

Since it targets a hex

[dim spade]

Don't I have to deploy to the hex?

[floral patio]

Patrol deploys you to that hex, yeah

[dim spade]

Like don't I have to deploy to the hex I wanna cloudburst

[floral patio]

Yes

Patrol deploys you to whatever hex you target with it

[dim spade]

So I can't cloudburst them

without getting hit by SAMs

[floral patio]

Yeah

[dim spade]

okay

[heady moat]

unless.... we get an air suppress on the SAM from one of the chassis

[floral patio]

But also they have like

2 additional fighters

In that base

So there's just gonna be a TON of anti-air from enemies right now

[heady moat]

yeah but that's gonna be the case everywhere

[floral patio]

Right..

Why I was saying we wanna focus on Patrol for a bit.

Probably

[trail fractal]

Escort is also an option

[heady moat]

yeah absolutely, we want definitely both our fighters doing anti-air

[dim spade]

I am going to patrol no matter what

[heady moat]

but i think we critically need a suppress on the enemy airbase; I left Cloudscouts on there and with just two hits you finish off the engineer and damage and turn off the SAM for the round

[dim spade]

But I wanted to see if I could squeeze value out by Cloudbursting the assault group directly south of the city

[heady moat]

if we can get a suppress on the airbase I think that's worth the risk (of the suppress failing)

[vocal scarab]

This seems like a bad idea tbh

[trail fractal]

Feel free to elaborate

[floral patio]

Ehhh

They're probably moving in R stance

Which means they only roll 3d6

And then we retreat

Or 6d6 and then they retreat

Average of 1/2 damage

And if it's a light unit, it can move away before they can attack

[vocal scarab]

An average of 1/2 damage is a lot of damage

[floral patio]

I mean, if ya have 4 hp, you're pretty unlikely to die, but yeah there's gonna have to be some risk.

[vocal scarab]

With a bit of bad luck that could easily woodchip a lone recon and for not a lot of reward

[trail fractal]

Tbh, it might be a bad idea, they might only advance this round, clear the road for the naval reinforcements next round.

[vocal scarab]

I think going for the vanguard and weakened sentinel/breacher is a better play for us speedsters this turn - we can see about harassing incoming as a unit later I think

[heady moat]

in conclusion, my air plan is
-Viper Patrols
-Archon Patrols or Escorts
-Helicon or Wingman Project Suppresses the airbase and the other one either Suppresses AJ11 or Patrols/Escorts
-Whitefish air strikes the Breacher at AM10 or the Vanguard at AK10

[dim spade]

Aight I think I'm gonna Patrol AK09

Try to get myself as much coverage as possible while remaining out of Sam range

[floral patio]

Could Fragment Signal?

Help us not die to bombardment

Alternatively the anti-dying-to-patrol item

[dim spade]

Are you guys getting bombarded?

[floral patio]

They could, no idea if they will.

[lyric harbor]

oooh not bad

risky tho

[lyric harbor]

yeah I really wanna take stuff off the board

[trail fractal]

If you want a safer similar move, going 1 step shorter means the vanguard can't reach with an [s]

[floral patio]

Yeah, Just Fucking Killing Them is good.

[trail fractal]

But as I realised, they might not move that fast this turn. Waiting for the naval support before the "full" move out.

[dim spade]

Aight

I'm just gonna Fragment Signal our southern defenses and patrol

[bright nimbus]

NGL I am regretting going Bachs now since we have actual airstrike units the airstrike I can do is always the strictly wrong move and the fire support isn't worth it either

[lyric harbor]

I'm not sure chassis lance was the best choice, since I realize now you only get 1d6

[bright nimbus]

1d6 of what?

[lyric harbor]

supporting fire

and sap/suppress are v. situational

[trail fractal]

It still provides a full suppress though?

Suppress is often just a better bombard

[floral patio]

Supporting Fire seems bad

Suppress is great tho'

Sap is also pretty good

I feel like Sap maybe should roll full dice @wind yacht since it's ONLY hitting Fortifications?

[lyric harbor]

they're good but only if you're against the stuff that cares about it

[trail fractal]

(A generic supporting fire is good, but not the chassi lance version)

[floral patio]

On the chassis lance in particular since you're not actually fighting

[lyric harbor]

yeah in retrospect I would rather have gone Smartguns since we're kinda defending not attacking

maybe might be useful sapping later

[floral patio]

I think it's... Pretty bad? Like, you need two hits to destroy a bridge, which is a HARD.

Ask

When you only get like, 2-3 dice

1/9 for most users of Sap

[trail fractal]

Question: When other people take an order to heal, when in the round structure does this heal happen? @wind yacht

[bright nimbus]

yeah 2 hits to do consistently you want 6 dice

[floral patio]

And it's a half-attack

So that's just

Not happening

It also only happens once AND only targets fortifications

[bright nimbus]

yeah like what 2 dice for almost everyone?

[floral patio]

If you're 5hp it's 3

But that's only possible for line infantry and heavy fighters taking the lance

[bright nimbus]

it rounds down for half attacks

[floral patio]

Oh

Then yes, 2 for everyone

[bright nimbus]

yeah

[heady moat]

yeaaaah it is a bit of a trap option in hindsight, especially when you already start with a Suppress +0 which is Basically Just Better than the -1 Airstrike

[blazing basalt]

I think we might be best off having Red Rooks do the suppress on the air base, since the SAM can't shoot them, and if the air units want to keep it in their patrol range it means they can't also cover the city.

Then Wingman and and Helicon can both patrol and we commit to the air battle.

[heady moat]

I'm not sure I like the odds of that, Red Rook would only be rolling two dice for the suppress (assuming no damage from air threats)

[blazing basalt]

I mean it's the thing they're built to do best.

[heady moat]

also key part is that Suppression happens before ground-to-air attacks happen

so the only time Red Rook is the better choice is if the unit doesn't manage to suppress the SAM

[trail fractal]

Also, we have lots of enemy air units that can patrol, sending in Red Rooks could just end with them dying.

That is not to say they shouldn't participate, but...

[blazing basalt]

Nah, Red Rooks are at full hp

[icy linden]

But yeah should I

[heady moat]

yeah that full HP is 3

[icy linden]

Skirmish and pin the vanguard and condor?

[blazing basalt]

They can't die, if they get shot, they mission abort and fall back to base at 1hp

[trail fractal]

I am at full HP (I have regen)

[trail fractal]

Good point, but that tile has fortification, you need 2 hits to actually suppress any enemy unit

[blazing basalt]

Might not even be worth suppressing then at that rate.

3 hits to turn off three dice as opposed to just putting three hits into the enemy, y'know?

[trail fractal]

I mean, if only someone had 6d6 worth of suppress... XD

But also, we could just tank the interception from them and focus on closer enemies, as you said.

[heady moat]

it's actually 7d6 because of Cloudscouts

[trail fractal]

Someone put cloudscouts there already? Nice

[heady moat]

now that i think of it, it might actually be worth asking GM advice for about how exactly Suppress interacts with fortifications

[blazing basalt]

Wait, the red rooks could just equip gandiva missiles

[trail fractal]

"Gandiva Missiles
When executing a Suppress order, hits are only assigned to Defenses or units with active Air Interception."

Fortifcations are defenses

[heady moat]

yeah, they're just gonna get assigned to the Defenses

[trail fractal]

Good question, When I first read it I thought defenses would count as a target, but I don't know.

But each Suppress order can only hit a unit once.

[heady moat]

yeah if there's no chance on getting damage on the units in the base it's def not worth it

worst case scenario could be that no matter how many hits you get, you get your one hit on the defenses and the rest whiff because there's no other eligible targets

[trail fractal]

? Hits are evenly distributed. starting with defenses, if you can't hit everyone.

There is a clear is orderfor how to assign hits normally.

As far as I know, Suppress only limits the number of hits each target can be assigned (in exchange for stopping some actions), It shouldn't change the allocation logic.

[heady moat]

i've got to learn to read

so yeah, two hits suppresses the SAM, third hit kills the Engineer, no reason not to do it

[trail fractal]

Depending on when resting applies healing

But there could be a reason, other targets could have higher priority.

[heady moat]

I can't see one, with some luck, it lets us air attack safely within the SAM's range this round and prevents the engineer from upgrading the airfield to a full FOB

[worthy pelican]

Rest healing will happen before basically anything else

[slow copper]

How much is their anti air from the SAM versus the enemy aircraft?

[worthy pelican]

The SAM does interception in a radius 3, has HP 4

[floral patio]

At the beginning now

[trail fractal]

The SAM has about the same anti air as a single group of enemy aircraft, there are 4 such groups.

Thanks to Eranziel and Tohu, good to know, especially for Tohu (who is on low hp in a high hp regen area)

[worthy pelican]

Yeah - it rolls the same number of dice, and has a 1 tile wider interception radius than the fighter aircraft

Re-reading the air interception rules, I think the SAM would get to roll intercept damage in the first air combat round before getting suppressed

[trail fractal]

Nope

[worthy pelican]

Air units ordered to Patrol and ground units with Air Interception create interception areas. They will attempt to intercept any hostile air unit operating in their area of effect. Once all air units are deployed to their ordered tiles, each air unit in a hostile interception area will be assigned an interceptor.
Ground units with Air Interception create an interception zone. Nothing about the first step specifies that only air interceptors roll for intercept.

[trail fractal]

"In the second air combat step, each ground unit with an active Air Interception effect makes an attack roll and distributes the resulting hits among its interception targets."

the SAM does not join in on the first round of air vs air

and air units only fire on the first round of air vs air

[worthy pelican]

If that means they don't roll in the first step, that could be clearer. I would move the wording there; something like "ground units with active Air Interception effects do not roll attacks in the first air combat step."

[trail fractal]

and then say the same for air units in the second step, that works, but it is a bit much writing

[heady moat]

that's why it's a playtest babyyyyy

[worthy pelican]

mhm

[heady moat]

(i have very strong thoughts about air Suppress, personally)

[trail fractal]

probably rewrite to air and only air for round 1, ground and only ground for round 2.

[heady moat]

but yeah i'll just go airstrike the lone Vanguard in AK10, even if the SAM's online I don't mind it too much

[worthy pelican]

Yeah, checking the summary post for last round that does seem to be the intent

Suppress vs. Supporting Fire does have some odd competition

[trail fractal]

Also regarding the HA bach, air support at +1d6 seems awesome, getting to roll 3d6 in the first round and 3d6 in the second round (if you are on full hp) seems great.

[worthy pelican]

Though I will note that supporting fire gets to roll twice (once in each combat step), vs Suppress only rolling once. Not sure everyone has been including that in their evaluation.

[trail fractal]

Related to this, the enemy condors can also air support at +1d6, causing the same issue.

[trail fractal]

On the other hand, you could go for the sam, since you ignore your first sam damage.

[willow ferry]

sorry for interupting but this just came out and i got exited

[heady moat]

can't suppress babyyyy

[worthy pelican]

Well, not quite - ground interception rolls -1d6

If you pick instinct pods

[trail fractal]

"GMS Hammerhead: Cancel the first hit applied in the second air combat step."

[worthy pelican]

Nooo, I'm looking at the entirely wrong unit, never mind me

[trail fractal]

That is on average stopping 3 out of 4 dice of the sam, and if @heady moat damages it as well...

[worthy pelican]

You could go instinct pods for even more defense, or take an autogun (I think you're likely to get tagged by an air interceptor too)

[heady moat]

sadly bombard happens after the ground interception step so any damage wouldn't actually help the rest of the air force this round

[trail fractal]

Right, good point

[heady moat]

i can go for it just to get some use out of the cloudscouts if no one wants to suppress but i think a suppress would be better value for money

[trail fractal]

I can suppress it

Wouldn't mind some nearby patrols though (or an escort)

[heady moat]

yeah an escort would be a good idea because odds are they're gonna defend their airbase and getting that full 7d6 suppress would be excellent

[trail fractal]

Considering Verry marked it with cloudscout, it seems like an obvious target to patrol near for them.

[worthy pelican]

How much fortification do they have on the airbase?

[trail fractal]

Doesn't matter for Suppress, but it looks like 2 (either it has defenses or it doesn't as far as Suppress cares)

and should probably have 1 terrain defence as well, assuming it works the same as our temporary bases.

Considering I got 0 hits this round on autogun and suppress, I wouldn't assume I am getting 2 the next round.

If I get to Suppress with full hp, I think I have a little over 70% chance to cancel the sam intercept. So far from guaranteed, even if they don't defend.

[heady moat]

yeah it's the riskier option with higher reward

AJ11 is the other good Suppress target, three units, outside SAM range

[trail fractal]

Yes, AJ11 is a good target, with a low, but plausible chance to stop the rocket artillery as well

[worthy pelican]

Hm. You'd have to land 3 hits to suppress the rocket artillery there, since breacher and home guard both have higher hp.

[heady moat]

yeah the suppression would be a nice bonus, i'm mostly thinking about the damage side of things

[trail fractal]

4 if either of them holds

[worthy pelican]

Home Guard is pretty nasty to get assaulted by. On the upside, only move 2 so they can't get to the city this turn.

[heady moat]

i guess air supporting the crossroads could also be an option for me but i fear that might be a little overkill depending on how hard the ground troops come down on it

[worthy pelican]

Do we have ground units planning to assault the crossroads this turn?

[trail fractal]

Question: why is Steel Dawn out in the open instead of in AL09? It is unclear to me which of the two tiles it attacked from since it moved 2 (and could have gone through either), but:
"GMs should place retreating units close to other friendly units and away from hostile ones if possible."
And that should usually favour AL09 over AM09, right?
@wind yacht

[heady moat]

oh yeah i guess that's also possible, i did recall some talk about holding position

[trail fractal]

I think it would be good, that sentinel and breacher both look low, and if either heals, they are in [R]

[worthy pelican]

That's true

[trail fractal]

Expect the enemy to count on that though

[worthy pelican]

On the one hand, the Sentinel's [A] reinforce is nasty to fight into

On the other hand, if they do that they're not healing, so a single hit on them wipes the unit.

Right, I remember now - I don't expect either of them to rest tbh. They don't have any base or medic support, so resting for 1HP in frontline combat seems like a bad idea to me.

[trail fractal]

The sentinel is a medic

[worthy pelican]

Bah. Reading comprehension again, you're right.

[trail fractal]

But they might not rest, that is still true

[trail fractal]

Another question: Right now hits from intercept are not assigned according to distance, should that be a factor? (They are a factor in deciding who gets intercepted by who, though)

[lyric harbor]

me and I think derpghost are gonna skirmish it

because we get to act before anyone else if we do that

if we get lucky we can snipe the sentinal

[slow copper]

@willow ferry Do you want me to wait around so you can move-> fully heal. Or are you just planning to go to space and then figure out healing/other actions after?

[willow ferry]

just getting to space is priority no.1

[slow copper]

I will depart then. Enjoy the R&R spaceside when you take it

[willow ferry]

will do

[trail fractal]

It might be good to make sure we leave someone to hold the city. But appart from that, you can do a lot of good on other fronts.

[slow copper]

The idea was to just drop back to the city if something threatens to take it. Things are staggering to space so we probably have some safety on that front

@wind yacht Do friendly bases and cities provide any vision around them?

[vocal scarab]

I submitted orders to go for the vanguard, m'self

[wanton ermine]

oh huh... can you not actually airlift from or to the hex of the airbase itself?

[slow copper]

If it's written to imply that, I suspect that is not intentional lol

I guess very strict RAW is that you can airlift to/from an adjacent tile of an airbase (but not the base itself). Unless you are going to/from space, then it has to be the base itself lol.

I do not think this is how it is intended to be read

[worthy pelican]

The adjacency rule says a tile is adjacent to itself

So yes, you can airlift to/from the airbase tile itself

[spare bay]

@willow ferry @slow copper in case you weren't aware, the airfield at Muskegon counts as a temp base, healing bonus and all. So even if Wizard wants to heal before lifting into space, you don't need to stick around.

regardless, for the two units in Muskegon proper, our only logical order is to move back to the airbase this turn. Not much decisions to be had for us

[slow copper]

Oh perfect

[willow ferry]

im already going to the airport, my only concern is how to get to space

[sweet cobalt]

You can get to space from the airport (or any space adjacent) with the Airlift order

[wind yacht]

At present, cities and bases provide no vision.

[willow ferry]

oh i could go to space now then?

[worthy pelican]

No, you need to be adjacent to the airbase at the start of the round to be able to airlift up.

So this round you move adjacent to the airbase, next round you can rest or airlift

[willow ferry]

ok

[spare bay]

yep, and resting in space is also an option anyways

[lyric harbor]

which tile's the vanguard?

[vocal scarab]

AK10

[lyric harbor]

Ah okay

that's also a good move

Alrighty, orders submitted

Please can someone else attack with me, I'd rather not solo this 😛

[spare bay]

(use the planning doc)

[north juniper]

Not sure what i should do, reinforcing would probably put me in a bad spot if the enemy goes in for a attack, i dont have anything worth designating and ill be at a disadvantage if im not defending near a city

[spare bay]

What's the fortification value of the tile? You could maybe just Hold. Otherwise, are people planning on trying another assault on the crossroads?

the enemies there won't be rolling many dice seeing as how damaged they are

[wind yacht]

MagmaNaught specifically designated movement through AM09

[lyric harbor]

Speaking of, could you at some point check that I designated the right tile for my skirmish this round? I'm trying to hit the weakened sentinel and friend

Worried I read the map wrong

[wind yacht]

Looks correct; you ordered AL10 and that's the tile with the damaged Sentinel and Breacher.

[north juniper]

i think this is the fortification and its at 3

[blazing basalt]

Alright, I think i'm gonna patrol at ak09. It'll cover the city with my tiny patrol range.

[trail fractal]

*Voy, yes

but I am unsure which tile Voy is patroling in, it might be AK09, might be an adjacent one, what they wrote suggested 2 different tiles.

[unique sequoia]

I'm gonna submit my order tonight, in a few hours

[trail fractal]

It looks like Suki is pinning the crossroads (AL10), is someone else following up with an [A*], and do we have any air going to that tile?

[unique sequoia]

If anyone wants something built or a charge against someone near Saginaw, ping me

[trail fractal]

I think AK10 and AL10 are getting pinned by [S*] so they should be good assault targets.

You could also go for a [S*] of your own of course, prioritizing light fighting over pushing the enemy back.

[worthy pelican]

Skirmishing is probably a good move for anyone worried about taking too much damage, yeah

@weary stump too maybe?

We do need to be careful that we don't leave AK08 (spaceport), AL08, and AL09 too bare, since we've got air forces based there.

[unique sequoia]

But how we will obliterate them to smithereens by Skirmish?

[worthy pelican]

You should be able to kill the sentinel at least with a skirmish, if a couple people are in on it

Maybe add in a bombard

[trail fractal]

If the sentinel heals then it likely survives a skrimish, and if it doesn't it likely dies to a stiff breeze.

[worthy pelican]

The other potential complication is if a fresh unit joins that stack

That would make it a fair bit less likely to kill the sentinel, but it also makes it a lot riskier to A* instead of S*

[trail fractal]

No known enemy will (be able to) move in from the west, due to the pin at AK10, that leaves the adjacent breacher.

Both Verry and Entropy have good air support abilities, which are very valuable on [A*] moves, but less so if it is just a skirmish.

If anyone wants a targeted airstrike on a lone unit, Vinyl should usually be the best at the job.

And for suppressing targets under light-moderate air interception, I should probably be the first choice, with Vinyl a close second.

[trail fractal]

Also, Air gang, don't be afraid to give orders that are in range of that SAM, since I will try to suppress it (also it probably targets me if I fail).

[spare bay]

Mathematically, I think the smartest move for the Sentinel is to just A Reinforce again. It's not affected by how little health it has and it happens immediately at the start of the round; it's not contestable. And it benefits all the units in that tile, not just itself.

(basically, it's a super strong order and I'm still salty about it)

[north juniper]

Might just reinforce again on AL09

[dim spade]

I am just patrolling over the city

it seems to be what everyone wants me to do

[blazing basalt]

Yeah, the air war's going to be vicious this turn

With any luck both sides will just cripple each other, and then the ground forces can seize their airbase or force them to at least rebase and we can repair.

[floral patio]

Same, I WANNA DO IT 😦

@wind yacht Things like turning one order in a stance into another type are a potentially really interesting place for perks/Equipment that aren't just "Gets better numbers"

I'd rather spend a Perk on "gets to do X order but in Y stance instead" than "+1d6 when attacking on first round"

Kind of deal

[dim spade]

don't say "luckily you'll be crippled" when "you" is "me"

[floral patio]

Luckily you'll cripple them and they'll have as great rolling as you did last turn. 😄

[blazing basalt]

You is us

I'm the one missing a hit point, unlucky rolls could have me knockd out here.

[dim spade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3DqhUEXTN0

I MUST embody this this round

my hopes

my prayers...

[bright nimbus]

Through the power of friendship (and this sidewinder I found) we shall prevail

[weary stump]

My orders are in

I’m moving into the city for its defense

[willow ferry]

the next turn happens when again, i was under the assumption it was today at 5 my time?

[worthy pelican]

Order deadline is in about 14 hours

The timestamp in that pin automatically adjusts to your local time

[willow ferry]

Ah ok i got today and Tomorrow mixed up

[icy linden]

Okay hmm

So like going to head in to pin the vanguard and condor

Unless someone has a better diea

Idea

[wind yacht]

<@&1310264693650362378> round 3 orders are due <t:1733457600:R>

[wicked plover]

What's the bot command for getting the mega game tag? I swore I had it round 1 but didn't get the round 2 ping

[sweet cobalt]

?rank Pilot NET Megagame

[worthy pelican]

Note that the condor isn't actually there to pin, since it's an air unit.

[wicked plover]

TY

[blazing basalt]

Good luck to everyone next round, those who are about to die salute you

[icy linden]

Huh

Should I still split the colum or

Something else

[worthy pelican]

It does seem worthwhile to me. It prevents the vanguard or any of its buddes to the west from joining the crossroads.

[heady moat]

i'm also air striking it so it shouldn't be the hardest fight in the world

[unique sequoia]

are all the enemies that could get to the airport pinned?

[worthy pelican]

If Admiral pins the Vanguard, effectively yes. Technically the Home Guard and Breacher in AJ11 could make it to the spaceport with a reposition.

[spare bay]

they'd be rebuffed automatically though right? As long as the units there aren't in [R] stance.

[worthy pelican]

Yeah, we'd need one unit there in S or A to be guaranteed safe

Mehen's Jackals ( @hearty yew ) are there already and have the option for S/A Supporting Fire, maybe that's a good option? I think @unique sequoia and @sacred valley are the other two infantry options that I'm not sure their plans currently. Though I think Turi wants to build something, and we should probably keep a unit on AL08 for some insurance for our flight chassis base there.

[unique sequoia]

I have no plans atm, I'm available to jump whenever I'm needed

[sacred valley]

I was contemplating more bombardment, but also I specifically took line infantry to be able to scrap if needed.

It does not currently appear safe for me to fly anywhere.

[livid geyser]

👀

I'm ready to bomb any location from orbit

do you guys have any specific targets you think are extra valuable to long range harass?

[spare bay]

In terms of efficiency, you could try airstriking the lone Breacher at AM10. There are gonna be so many enemy air units coming in that I'm not sure Patrolling would really do anything.

[blazing basalt]

There's so many air units coming in that patrolling is extra helpful

[dim spade]

I mean, is it? It would reduce the efficiency of my patrol by a lot

[floral patio]

Eh.

Max patrol efficiency is when you catch any number of units that are doing things that rely on their dice that aren't shooting you back

[dim spade]

Well the more I intercept the more powerful I get

Infinitely so

So if someone takes 2-3 intercepts off me they are reducing efficiency I think

[sacred valley]

I can send supporting fire into the spaceport and hold AL08 secure.

[blazing basalt]

I mean taking one dice off of your intercepts in exchange for adding X many of their own hp to the intercept is still good

[spare bay]

except, since the interceptions would be split mostly evenly, it'll actually halve the amount of dice from the Comet bonus

[sweet cobalt]

This is a larger question of direction, but holding off this turn and air striking the forces outside Topinabee next turn alongside ground units dropping in as our second city to take could be an option.

Narratively, taking Muskegon with its airfield and Topinabee (cutting off reinforcements from the sea) and defending Saginaw feels decisive enough to clear the scenario imo

[spare bay]

Trying for Topinabee doesn't make much sense tactically, since it's so much more heavily defended. I wouldn't advise it unless Peri explicitly says taking the southern cities won't be enough.

[trail fractal]

Both the south cities are vulnerable, north-west is not, and is getting more enemies coming in from of map. We need 1 more to win, so go for one of the south ones.

[trail fractal]

It might not be what you are looking for, but you have a great patrol radius and there are 4 enemy air units operating in the center. You could cover a lot of airspace from something like AL11 or AM11.

[livid geyser]

i'm pretty bad at air to air

bombing is a smarter idea for me

I can hold for a turn

[trail fractal]

Isn't patrol the order you have with the most dice?

But if you want to be bombing, pick one of the south cities and bring something like cloudscout drones.

[livid geyser]

I have -1 hp

but I'm immune to air interception from ground units

[trail fractal]

Yeah, and since you have 3 hp, you roll 3 dice for patrol

But you get a die penalty to airstrike and suppress, and air support rounds down to 1d6/battle stage even without the penalty.

[spare bay]

if we're gonna start on one of the southern cities now, my vote is for the SW one, Kalamazoo. It's further from the hostile airfield.

[trail fractal]

Good point, it is out of range of the condors for now, but the fulcrums could still patrol near it, though nothing more than that.

[livid geyser]

sure

[spare bay]

It also means that, in the event that we capture it and they don't capitulate, it will be harder for the remaining enemy air units to harass us there.

[trail fractal]

We have rules limiting our bombardment of cities, but Suppress is still fully effective.

[livid geyser]

ah, fair enough. can I resubmit?

[spare bay]

I still think it makes more sense to aim for the Breachers right next to Saginaw

you'll have the best effect on target there. Isolated and undefended

[spare bay]

yeah, Peri will just use the most recent order submitted

[trail fractal]

Yes, perijove has said they will go with the last order anyone submitts, not the first.

[livid geyser]

cool

AL10 breacher?

[trail fractal]

AM10?

[livid geyser]

I see it, off to the east

[trail fractal]

If that breacher picked bombard, a suppress order there could be very usefull

[livid geyser]

done

[spare bay]

nice

[floral patio]

Sure which is definitely maximum for you.

[floral patio]

Also I think it's worth noting you can't die as an air unit, and have to rest between turns anyway in space, so losing all your hp in patrolling vs people... Kinda doesn't matter for you?

[spare bay]

you can die, you just can't die in one turn if you deployed with full HP.

it's not as if patrolling will cause you to take any more or less damage than other actions.

[floral patio]

"If an air unit begins the round at full HP and would be reduced to 0 HP or below, it is instead reduced to 1 HP and cancels the remainder of its order, returning to base for repair."

Yeah

But resting in space I think heals 2 hp

So they go out, come back at 1

And then go back to 3

[spare bay]

it heals half your HP rounded down

so if you're reduced to 1, it basically always takes 2 turns of repairs

[wind yacht]

Get your order in if you can

[spare bay]

I just realized that being forced to Hold Position is even worse for support units, since they'd still be in [R] stance, from my understanding.

[wind yacht]

correct

[floral patio]

Yeah

[blazing basalt]

Movement's happening on the board, air strikes seem inbound

Let's hope air cover does it's job

[icy linden]

hows our fighting going

[wind yacht]

Round 3 air intercepts

[sweet cobalt]

Air seems wild and in terms of decision making I’m glad that other people are happy in that space.

How are you feeling about the state of air? (Understanding that it’s early days)

[blazing basalt]

It's kinda hard to judge right now because of the siege situation we're in

[worthy pelican]

Looks like they're doing 2 bombing runs on the city. That makes things a little less hairy for our air forces, but also means they're probably trying to soften us up for ground forces...

Oh, one of the condors isn't patrolling either. 🤔

[spare bay]

hm, that means they'll be the first to break the taboo on bombarding cities

[floral patio]

There isn't a taboo that we were told I think, just that they do half damage or something since you have to try to avoid collateral damage

[blazing basalt]

Makes me wish I hadn't set up base on top of that puppy orphanage.....

[icy linden]

Right now I'm in the attacking colum

helping the bombardment

pinning the vanguard

ahahha

[wind yacht]

All the player air units have to share one set of Good Dice and it's Winged's turn with them apparently

[spare bay]

I am curious how our composition compares to the "expected" ratio of ground to air units, if there is such a thing

Winged didn't hit anything T1 so I guess it's fair lol

although if all our air units collectively only got 2 hits, that's gonna be pretty disappointing.

[icy linden]

is this the orange cat braincell

[blazing basalt]

Poor wingman, never practiced aiming

Born too late to join XCOM

[bright nimbus]

My opinion on the current state of air is having bad luck dice feels bad

Also Bachs feel like an objectively bad decision with how air strike and air support work plus the overwhelming need to just be patrolling

[icy linden]

Bachs?

[spare bay]

Fighter variant that basically turns them into worse bombers

I wonder if it would have been worth it to have one or two escort-focused air units

[dim spade]

Man I have accomplished literally nothing

this entire game

[spare bay]

What order did you give this turn?

[dim spade]

I have patroled this entire game

and gotten exactly 0 hits

[spare bay]

Just bad rng I guess. If it's any consolation, it's not like you'd have done much more with any other unit lol

this game does kinda suffer that "oh I rolled nothing so I can't contribute" problem

for combat units at least

[dim spade]

Yeah just kinda sucks

I mean no lie I'm not really having any fun

Just sorta getting pinged relentlessly to change nothing on my order, put no thought into my equipment since nothing helps dog fighting, and then get up into the air to accomplish nothing

[wind yacht]

<@&1310264693650362378> Round 3 complete. Round 4 orders are due <t:1733630400:F>

Air Combat

Fulcrum (1) and Condor (2) patrol
Fulcrum (2) suppresses the spaceport, but only hits defenses.
Helicon Lance suppresses the SAM launchers set up around the hostile airfield.

Bombards

Red Rooks scores 2 hits on Breacher (3)
Whitefish and Smokeshow score 2 hit on Vanguard (2)
Breacher (3) scores 2 hits on Steel Dawn
Rocket Artillery bombards the spaceport, scores 2 hits (1 to defenses, 1 to Mehen's Jackals)
Beaver (1) airstrikes AL09, scores no hits.

Skirmish in AK10

Union recon units pin down the Vanguard, stumble onto a concealed Scout, then a Breacher blunders in.
Shovel TMC is unable to join, as there are already 3 Union units in the tile.
ROUND ONE
Blufor: 7 hits
Opfor: 4 hits
All Union units retreat.

Skirmish in AL10

Hunter-Killers charge and catch the coalition tank company off-guard.
Blufor: 3 hits
Opfor: 0 hits.
The Hunter-Killers destroy Sentinel (1) and withdraw.

[weary stump]

Oh fuck

Can someone post the updated map?

[spare bay]

oh damn, I guess Winged didn't change from Airstrike to Suppress after all. Would have prevented the damage on Steel Dawn in exchange for one less damage on the Breacher.

[wind yacht]

working on it

[wind yacht]

I deleted what I was pretty sure was the older order

[spare bay]

I think the older order was probably something else entirely

I think she just missed waar's suggestion, probably already submitted the airstrike before it was posted

oh well

I liked seeing the round by round results btw

[wind yacht]

Round 4 orders are due <t:1733630400:F>

[spare bay]

I'm guessing the Union units in AK10 were all in [S] stance or something? We probably should have coordinated better; only one unit needs to be in [S] stance (the lightest one) to pin down the enemy units, then all the others should follow in [A] stance so they can actually hold the tile.

[wind yacht]

Sorry, Voy
I think for future games it would be good to raise the HP of all units, to reduce the variation in rolls

[wind yacht]

Mehen's Jackals were in [A] Skirmish, which I interpreted as [S] Skirmish

[spare bay]

oh, not to mention blundering with 4 units trying to enter the same tile. So basically, Shovel TMC's turn was just completely wasted?

What order was Shovel trying to execute? Was it an [A] stance order, and that's what caused them to be last in line, so to speak?

[wind yacht]

yes

[icy linden]

So

I see a really really dumb idea

I wanna execute

Asault here

Nice rocket here

SHAME

Kai Bioplate

hehehe

[slow copper]

I don't like where that Northern Vanguard went to. It's threatening the two city tiles in the North (one of which has no defenses) plus the Airport

So for dropping: Do we want to go for a Southern city (because it is safer) or for Topinabee to send a message (espeically since they moved a unit away from there)?

I guess our drop force could also land on that airbase to take out their air support

[spare bay]

Can enemy air units rebase off of the map the same way we can rebase back into space?

I'm wondering if it would make more sense to drop on the flight chassis bases first to destroy them before they can get away, assuming the other enemy air units are stuck at that airfield.

[wind yacht]

That would be 3 instances of difficult terrain

[icy linden]

oh

😦

nevermind

thought it was 2 because of the road

[spare bay]

breaking through and holding that tile was actually crucial to having a chance at striking the enemy airbases on foot this turn

[wind yacht]

yes

[trail fractal]

Other option, we suppress+bombard that breacher in AL10, and you can skirmish the concord 1 base.

[spare bay]

That's the tile the Condor patrolled out of. It's based off of one of those two tiles in the south next to the enemy airfield. Actually, I'm not even sure what Condor 1 did this turn. It's not in the AAR.

AL13/AM12

[trail fractal]

On the other hand, if we drop on Kalamazoo and defend Muskegon, we should just need to hold on to the entire city to win.

[spare bay]

Depends on if the coalition is confident it can take Saginaw

[trail fractal]

It looks like they tried to air support a tile we didn't attack

[spare bay]

in which case, they'll keep fighting

if we had pushed them back and were poised to strike their air assets this turn, I'd be more confident

but the clumsy maneuvering cost us

hm, when firing bombards, do they all happen simultaneously? As in, damage taken during the bombardment from another unit isn't taken into account? (following the normal order sequence rules)

because then that's just yet another point in favor of suppress over bombard/airstrike

[trail fractal]

Bombard is great when an enemy unit is isolated and doesn't have a order you want to suppress, but uh, right now it looks like airstrike too often have a -1d6

[spare bay]

even then, I'd argue that if that unit is threatening indirect fire, using suppress to deal damage while also preserving your own unit's health is the better deal

[trail fractal]

We have 4 units with drop pods in space this turn, sure only 2 of them can [A] drop, but even an [R] drop should be able to threaten an enemy air unit.

[spare bay]

I think that works for the undefended one, but the other base has an Engineer on it, which is a combat unit.

it's pretty risky for the supports regardless, but then again, if it draws fire or gets them to move away from the city, that's a strategic win for us overall

[trail fractal]

The hunter killers can attack either of the base and condor 2 tile. And the air base has a 1 hp engineer and a support unit.

[spare bay]

to be clear, I made that comment in response to the idea of capturing one of the southern cities to force a capitulation

if we drop them on the airfield instead, then obviously we aren't doing that, so the point is moot

which is why it would have been ideal to threaten them on foot with our recon units

[trail fractal]

We have 4 units, only 3 can drop on kalamazoo, so one [R] could be dropped elsewhere.

[spare bay]

It's really only the Armored Companies that matter for the drop forces, when it comes to capturing one of the cities

I guess if someone's up for dropping alone on that undefended mech base, more power to them. Like I said, it'll definitely be a thorn in the side for the NPCs.

[trail fractal]

The support unit does help if there are unexpected defenders or unexpectedly good enemy rolls

[slow copper]

If we think taking a southern city will win us the game, we should definitely take one (we need to stop that Vanguard from getting into the city though)

[spare bay]

just to spread the damage out I guess?

[slow copper]

Yeah

I want to go for Topinabee but that plan really doesn't work if the two unknowns fall back into the city this turn

[trail fractal]

Kalamazoo it out of range of enemy air support, only air patrol can reach it.

[spare bay]

As long as we have at least one unit in [A] stance in each of the city tiles, I think it should be okay. Vanguard has to [R] to get to the undefended tile, which means it'll be repulsed automatically.

[slow copper]

Oh right, I forgot about the difficult terrain

[trail fractal]

That is a good use for a [R] unit as well

Reminder: that vanguard can reach our spaceport, so can the scout.

[spare bay]

I just include the spaceport as a city tile. Obviously we wouldn't want to leave it undefended either.

I kinda wish the air units either weren't shown or were somehow more visually distinctive from the ground units.

[trail fractal]

I very much like that they are shown, but good point on them taking up space and needing some focus to interpret as Air units.

[spare bay]

I'm kind of regretting wasting my turn just moving next to the Muskegon airfield. I could have instead repositioned down the road and rebased my dropships at Saginaw so I'd be in striking range this turn, instead of needing to airlift back into space.

[slow copper]

I think being able to do a follow-up drop next turn if we don't take another city this turn (due to bad luck etc.) it will be good that you get back into space

[willow ferry]

@wind yacht i thought i was going to the airport at AT03? or did i misunderstand?

[spare bay]

probably just an accident. It shouldn't really matter though, since all the effects extend out to adjacency.

[willow ferry]

yeah, just mildly botherd but idk bout too much

[icy linden]

Hmmm

Okay so my silly plan isn't working

Who do folks want me to pin

[livid geyser]

I didn't, yeah. I left drones in the area to make suppression easier in the next round, but I thought an airstrike was just for the best

[livid geyser]

Yeah I had an older order that was for a location very far away, definitely ignore it

[north juniper]

AL09 is at max reinforcement of 5

i fell acomplisment from that

not sure how useful it is

[lyric harbor]

Wow I got 3 hits on 4 dice

[floral patio]

@wind yacht so piece of feedback, next time I think I'd prefer something like waves of enemies, more incentive to spread out, and/or less immediate oh fuck urgency at the beginning of the game

[worthy pelican]

Re: drop squad, I'm leaning more towards supporting Saginaw than aggressively dropping on another city. Saginaw still looks very tense.

Dropping in AN12 or AM12 look like good odds and would significantly thin the air battle in our favour.

AJ11 would be another option, take out that rocket artillery and maybe another unit

[worthy pelican]

You could do that this turn to cut off Vanguard 3's flank. Fly 8 goes far!

We also have Pom's fresh airmobile infantry this turn

Though they probably can't do an air drop this round, pretty likely they'll get intercepted if the coalition air forces keep doing what they've been doing.

[blazing basalt]

I will admit I expected the air battle to go a lot more viciously. For both sides.

[spare bay]

If you want to drop on Saginaw, our best bet is to coordinate with the Hunter Killers to try and hit all 3 tiles with enemy air bases at the same time. Otherwise, they will be able to rebase away. If the 4 of you can help stabilize Saginaw, I might just wait in space for Wizard to repair, and then the two of us can try dropping on one of the southern cities together.

[blazing basalt]

While it is really tempting to try and drop one of the small cities, I think reinforcing Saginaw is the best bet, yeah

[floral patio]

I man

Mean

If you successfully drop another city

The game ends

[blazing basalt]

Not if we lose a bunch of our forces at Saginaw and reinforcements roll into topinbee though.

[spare bay]

I don't think the Topinabee reinforcements will matter if we go for an early win. It's just Saginaw that needs to hold.

[slow copper]

I think forcing a capitulation before their reinforcements arrive will save us a lot of time and headache. In particular, I think their reinforcements can hit Saginaw turn 8, whereas our other drop troops won't be and to drop into another city until turn 7

It'd also be nice to win before they realise things are desperate enough that they start shelling Saginaw indiscriminately

[worthy pelican]

One potential concern with dropping on another city to force a capitulation - the coalition forces might not consider Saginaw a lost battle yet and so could continue fighting, and then our drop pod forces are far out of position to help.

[spare bay]

yeah, but I think Wizard and I can take a southern city once Wizard is rested. It's just that it'll be very slow, and won't happen until after the Topinabee reinforcement arrive.

The hope would be that those reinforcements are too slow to actually contribute.

[slow copper]

The number of troops on both side is pretty even. The last known guidance is this and I don't think it is reasonable for Coalition forces to take Saginaw without much trouble: #1308791114526097469 message

So unless we have a truly disastrous turn, I think dropping on Ypsilanti or Kalamazoo + blocking the enemy from entering a Saginaw hex will win us the game

[trail fractal]

Is anyone actually defending Muskegon? If we are going for the win then countering potential hidden unit(s) near Muskegon may be a good idea.

[wind yacht]

I generally agree

[slow copper]

Our current decision to handle it is to drop back there in the event enemies show their faces. But we figured nothing could get there fast enough and would be focused on Saginaw anyways

[trail fractal]

They do have hidden scout units. And my question was primarily based on " If we are going for the win..." if we aren't then it is less important.

Air gang: that rocket artillery + low hp vanguard (AJ11) looks like a prime target for a suppress, unless anyone complains, I am going for it.

[blazing basalt]

Heck em up boss

[slow copper]

@wind yacht Hmm, for future games I would suggest having a "orbital" map space somewhere so it's easier to tell who is in orbit (or otherwise offmap)

@wind yacht what city between Kalamazoo and Ypsilanti has better cuisine. trying to decide the best city to drop in

[wind yacht]

I'm afraid the only place in lower Michigan with good cuisine is Detroit

[slow copper]

I do like Detroit style pizza

[spare bay]

if we need to, I can send my airmobile to block the eastern road into Saginaw to prevent the northern Vanguard unit from repositioning there.

[slow copper]

Oh, that might be a good idea if we can't spare people from the front lines

[worthy pelican]

Yeah, I think that's a great move

And it puts you no further from the Saginaw siege than if you went to space

[spare bay]

I can fly all the way to AN08

although I guess if the tile directly south of the vanguard is navigable, then it could just go for the spaceport instead of taking the road all the way around

we're just betting on the Vanguard trying to get into the unguarded tile, basically

[slow copper]

Yeah, we will want troops in the spaceport anyways

[worthy pelican]

I'm expecting the Home Guard to make an assault on the spaceport, tbh

Vanguard 2 and Scout 2 could also potentially move on the spaceport, so we do need to keep some troops there

[hearty yew]

The jackals probably need to just heal on the spot

[floral patio]

My understanding was it wasn't "Lost battle" that they needed, it was "Is it trivial to take it," I think as long as we're doing an even action they'll surrender?

Ah yeah was already talked aobut

[trail fractal]

Yeah, but say we leave a city undefended, and they have a hidden scout in range, that sounds more like trivial to take.

[slow copper]

It'd have to be coming from one of the mountain ranges to not run into us before we move (originally we figured that we shouldn't worry about maybe enemies when we have for sure enemies). But I guess it is extra safe to keep a unit in the city if we are going for the coup de grâce

[lyric harbor]

@floral patio @north juniper Wanna assault or skirmish into AL10 and hit the breacher?

I'm gonna skirmish into it I think

[north juniper]

Im a engineers, i dont hit hard, i do defende well thanks to my local recruits

[lyric harbor]

you still roll like what, 4 dice?

[floral patio]

Same tbh

Yeah we're both 4 dice

[lyric harbor]

that's 12 dice between us

more if anyone assaults

[floral patio]

Lemme take a look at the map

I hadn't gotten to before work

[lyric harbor]

Yeah no rush, and it's just a suggestion

I'm just thinking that recon's ability to go first and cancel enemy movement is really good

[floral patio]

Wait how am i back at full

[north juniper]

Hmm

[floral patio]

I thought I was at 1 before, shouldn't I be at 3 now?

@wind yacht

Did I get an HP back?

XD

Also when does Reinforce give neighboring tiles their defenses?

My inclination is to Reinforce the tile with everyone in it to the SW

AK10

Give them some more hp

Given Hold gives it at beginning of the turn, I'd guess Reinforce does too

[lyric harbor]

Oh wait, the breacher has reinforced that tile I think

and it's a breacher

[north juniper]

I might skirmish if i dont think of a better plan

[lyric harbor]

so now it's 12 dice against 1 reinforce 1 armor

[floral patio]

It has reinforce 1 atm

[lyric harbor]

which is less good

[north juniper]

I can sap

[floral patio]

But I do think attacking into it isn't needed

We're overall ahead on hp atm it looks like

[lyric harbor]

Yeah that's fair

I might skirmish AM10 instead?

there's a weakened breacher there

[floral patio]

@hearty yew @unique sequoia @icy linden What are 'yall doing in AK10? I'm thinking of just Reinforcing you guys to get +2 defense

[wind yacht]

Saginaw functions as a Foward Operating Base for the purposes of resting

[floral patio]

Ah ok

Shadow, one of the two of us needs to be here inA stance

Since Steel Dawn needs to heal

And we need someone in A stance or they can kill Helicon

IDC which of us, and then the other probably reinforces AK10?

@lyric harbor What if you hit the base?

[slow copper]

We also need someone to go to AM08 to stop any shenanigans

[floral patio]

AN12

The engineer is probably gonna heal, and the mobile SAM is a support unit

So if you hit it they'd both retreat potentially

And we'd take the airbase

I think we have people in space, if both of them land with you on the airbase it's pretty guaranteed to get cracked, and we'd kill 2 air units

[slow copper]

We want at least the combat units to land on a southern city to win this round

[floral patio]

Ah yeah

Fair

In that case yeah, maybe just a skirmish to the base, and the rest of us just dig in

[slow copper]

They will capitulate so long as they can't retake a city basically immediately (which they will most certainly not be able to) and so long as we hold Saginaw

[floral patio]

If we're winning this round there's not a lot of reason to go aggro

at all

[lyric harbor]

I was curious cos if they do fight I get pasted

[floral patio]

If they're in R stance they only roll 1d6

[lyric harbor]

Ahhhh that's right

[floral patio]

Supports can only ever be in R stance

[slow copper]

SAM only ever rolls a d6

[lyric harbor]

Oh then the first idea was the right one then

[floral patio]

Your worst case I think is 2 units in R stance and the engineers

So 6 dice and then you'd retreat

Which isn't great, there's a chance you die there.

But it's unlikely

And if the second engineer doesn't move in while in S or A stance you could just take the base

The other option that would be really funny

Just do that

Kill the Condors

[spare bay]

it's at the beginning of the turn, yes

[floral patio]

Since the engineer is really unlikely to sit still I think

[slow copper]

I think if you hold in your current place with a skirmish you are likely to not die (though that kind of depends on how much support firepower they throw at that tile) and also stop advancement into the city from the breachers there

[floral patio]

You could also just A-move backwards into the city

[slow copper]

You'd want more supporting units if you fall back to the city

[floral patio]

I mean, why?

We'd still hold most of the city

They need to take the whole city

If they move into the eastern part of the city I'm pretty sure they're just super overextended and die immediately

[slow copper]

Oh, hmm. I guess I assumed we had to control the entire city to win

[floral patio]

I think that might be true, but they also just die the immediate following round if they do

[slow copper]

@worthy pelican @sweet cobalt Do you have any preference for city you want to drop on this round? And should we send a support with you or should they both go to the city?

[lyric harbor]

okay THIS is funny

I just have to beat the engys

[floral patio]

Ypsilanti is technically less armored

4 defense this round rather than 5

But they're probably reinforcing in place to get to the 5 cap anyway

If things go wrong, we can help at Ypsilanti a lot better

I do just want to note this Vanguard can make it to the edge of the city this round too

[lyric harbor]

...I have a random question: I thought hits in combat were 5's and 6's

[floral patio]

If you want to intercept them on the road that'd also work, although they'll probably be in S stance

They are?

[lyric harbor]

This looks like it's scanning for 4's and higher

and the orders are all the same

[floral patio]

Greater than 4

[lyric harbor]

oh..

I'm dumb and lucky then nvm

[floral patio]

😄

Yah you rolled really well

[lyric harbor]

This is a good point

not this turn tho

to actually get in

[slow copper]

They can if they do a ballsy reposition

[floral patio]

Not to this city this round, yeah.

[worthy pelican]

I think Ffzdf was considering flying into that route, with airmobile shenaniganry

[lyric harbor]

Okay I think I'm gonna assault into AL12 then assuming nothing light manages to skirmish me somehow

time for LRDG shenanigins

[slow copper]

@lyric harbor I think if you skirmish AL10 you maximize the chance of holding the city this turn. It stops the scariest attack the enemy can do (pushing through those crossroads into the city with the three breachers)

[worthy pelican]

I'm thinking Ypsilanti might be best. As Tohu said, friendlies can get there easier, and we could get back to Saginaw easier too. I don't think we particularly need a support, odds are we can dislodge a single unit even if we don't kill it.

[lyric harbor]

if they do that, don't I get fucking pasted

they all run into me

[floral patio]

if they in fact all run into you? Yes.

[slow copper]

I think ideally someone else would also skirmish with you, yeah

[floral patio]

IDK if anyone else can? I think @sacred valley is the only option to go help the right flank.

[slow copper]

I think they roll 11 dice. So they probably won't kill you in one round

[hearty yew]

I think as mentioned earlier I need to rest given my HP

The jackals are in rough shape

[floral patio]

Yah

I was thinking me or Shadow use Reinforce

To give 'yall 2 extra defense

[slow copper]

@floral patio The Iron Turtles could also skirmish the crossroads to tank hits for Suki if people wanted to do the pinning plan

Or the Shadow

[floral patio]

Then we leave Steel Dawn resting by itself and Helicon

If people are taking the cities we just need to hold and take easy targets

No reason to go aggressive.

[lyric harbor]

I think the air base causes more overall damage, but there's an alternative of hitting AM10 instead and just pinning that single breacher down

[floral patio]

I'd go after the air base or the single engineer on the condor

[slow copper]

Well, the idea is one of the combat engineers stay in the city, and the other plus suki skirmishes the crossroad so they can't concentrate their forces into an attack on the city

[floral patio]

I think one of us stays in the city in A stance and the other reinforces the group to the SW

That's a bit overextended atm

Remember Reinforce is an R stance move for us

[slow copper]

Honestly, the SW forces could do a Skirmish action and it would work out ok I think?

[lyric harbor]

I think if I do hit that air base, they have to peel off something to stop me doing exactly the same thing to the other base the turn after

and it has to be strong enough to actually beat me

[floral patio]

Yah

And you can just squiggity squooty run the fuck away

😄

[slow copper]

The other base?

[floral patio]

The other engineer

Looks to be putting up a 2nd airbase

[slow copper]

Oh, seems a bit silly of them but interesting

[floral patio]

Which is why I was suggesting going into them

[lyric harbor]

?

[floral patio]

Yah

Kills the Condor if you beat those engineers

Since they're based there

[slow copper]

I would be worried that the enemy notices their weakness and doing an A move

Because they are decent in combat

[floral patio]

It's less risky than hitting the breachers

[slow copper]

But you are threatening two locations

[spare bay]

Or even the Breachers preempting you with an S move

[lyric harbor]

now that is a real risk

if they pull back a ton of stuff and paste me, that's a time loss for them

I can prob live 2 rounds vs a breachef

[floral patio]

If it's both of them it's 10 dice

Which is scary close to the 12 to average kill you

[lyric harbor]

Well hold on

they're not full right

that looks like 4+3

[spare bay]

I meant moreso if the Breachers S forwards aggresively, they will cancel your order if they run into you before you do your A move. So you'd have to do an S attack instead... which would mean potentially automatically retreating if the Engineer Holds.

I think it's most likely that the Breacher is going to go towards Saginaw, the question is just whether it will be A or S.

[lyric harbor]

I think that if they breachers do run into me, as long as I don't die, I hold them up for a turn anyway, which is honestly fine?

if we can blunt their assaults and grind them down elsewhere, one recon unit taking a beating outside the city holding them up is not bad

and they can only skirmish because otherwise I move first

[slow copper]

I wish we had one more combat unit in the city lol

[spare bay]

yeah that's my bad

[slow copper]

This is my suggestion for defending Saiginaw. It doesn't matter which combat engineer does the skirmish block. And BlackJack could probably rest instead of Hold Positioning

I don't know how worried we should be about scouts in the northwest of the city

[spare bay]

why fly to the crossroads instead of the tile to the south? It would put me closer to the action

[slow copper]

You can go there too. For some reason my brain believes it is not strategic lol

[spare bay]

afaik, the Vanguard can't reach the northern city tile. It can only reach the eastern tile by repositioning along the road or the spaceport if the western shore of the lake isn't blocked off

[slow copper]

Yeah, that's why I suggest Thundermaw move

The support dropping there is just in case a scout tries to scout into there lol

[spare bay]

but then why drop there? Might as well drop on the undefended chassis base to the south

scouts can also just assault into there and you'll be routed

[slow copper]

They might not want to assault into the Thundermaw being there

(since they don't know if it'll move or not)

[spare bay]

It's not as if Scouts are substantively worse at fighting than other units. Thundermaw specifically doesn't even have any combat enhacements, so it'd mostly be an even fight even if they did stay behind. Meaning there wouldn't really be a reason for the scouts to be afraid.

Ultimately, I'd rather take a guaranteed benefit along with giving the enemies a strategic headache rather than hedging our bets against an enemy unit that might not even exist.

[slow copper]

Well, it'd just a d6 so it doesn't add too much to either position

But yeah, I can also go to the west tile. I think it's also an outside chance a scout would try that maneuver

[spare bay]

The idea was for one of the support units to drop directly on the unguarded mech base at AL13 to destroy it instantly. The only way for them to avoid it is if they're psychic (or intercepting our comms; don't read this Peri!).

[slow copper]

I would be worried about the unit's health after that though

[spare bay]

Even then, they might not be in as much danger as you think, since if the other enemies nearby get pinned down by drop troops, the only firepower left available is what's assaulting the city. Making them turn around for a random support unit would give us breathing room, so I doubt they'll bother.

Doing so would be a mistake on their part imo

[slow copper]

Eh, the one engineer could bully it forever

[spare bay]

not if there are armored companies menacing it.

[slow copper]

Oh, is this instead of taking a city?

[spare bay]

yes

if taking a city wins us the game instantly, then all these other tactics around Saginaw don't really matter. But if it won't, then it's not a good idea to throw our armored units away down south.

It's pretty funny though, I wonder if the most effective opfor would just be air units with a ground force purely made up of Scouts.

[slow copper]

lmao

Yeah, so long as we keep Saginaw and take another city we win. So I think we should optimize for that?

We can do fancier stuff the next time when the scenario is presumably more involved

[worthy pelican]

The ability for PC scouts to guaranteed move first with an S is a pretty huge advantage tbh

They can remove all the uncertainty in catching enemy forces

And it's super useful for control

[worthy pelican]

I do think you want to sprinkle some drop pods in there, they've been very good strategically in this game. 😉

An assault brigade that can attack you anywhere without warning is probably pretty terrifying to plan against, tbh.

[spare bay]

by opfor, I meant the NPC forces

player scouts (i.e. Recons) are pretty good just because of their huge passive movement, but they're more similar to Vanguards than anything else

the unique thing about NPC Scouts and what makes them so strong is their invisibility

In fact, they're so strong that you don't even need to have any Scouts in the actual opfor for them to make an impact. Just the fact that they could potentially be present, even if there are none anywhere on the battlefield affects the player's decision making. They just warp the game to that degree.

[worthy pelican]

Ah, I missed the "opfor" in your post

Yes, the invisibility is pretty powerful on the decision space

[floral patio]

Yeah that's why I was saying we just hold and don't bother attacking really.

[weary stump]

So I have 1 health

And I really don’t wanna die

Does resting put me in R stance?

[slow copper]

Yes

[spare bay]

you do heal immediately at the start of the round though at least

[floral patio]

Yeah and since we're in the city you'll heal 3

Since we're both next to medics and in a fob for healing purposes

[dim spade]

I wanna do literally anything else other than patrol

but it seems like there's no real point to it

[floral patio]

You kinda picked the "I do patrol every round" chassis

[blazing basalt]

^

Also considering their air cover isn't too effective I'm probably going to air strike someone this turn

[north juniper]

will any bombardments happening around AL09 ?

[blazing basalt]

I'll send in an order to blow them up now

Unless you mean al10

[blazing basalt]

So yeah I'm blowing up the breacher at AL10

[floral patio]

I assume they mean that.

[north juniper]

not sure what i will do

anyone else interested to airstrike or bombard AL10 ?

screw it, skirmish it is

[sacred valley]

I could bombard AL10

But that puts me in R, which makes the city softer if anything can get to me.

[north juniper]

i already skirmishing

dont bother

[slow copper]

... I should have put coords on my recommendations map

[blazing basalt]

I've airstriked AL10

[lyric harbor]

I'm doing my base run, yolo

[wanton ermine]

oh rats I've been out of the loop, where's the dropsquad headed?

[spare bay]

if you feel like being spicy, you can drop on the unprotected mech base southwest of the enemy airfield near Saginaw.

I'd only recommend that if our armored companies drop on the airfield itself, though

takes out most of the enemy air power in the area; basically just one Condor unit has the chance to get away, and even if they do, it means they waste a turn rebasing instead of doing something else.

[wanton ermine]

I don't know how I feel about dropping behind enemy lines as a support unit lol

[spare bay]

your noble sacrifice will either be ignored by the enemies or you'll go out in a blaze of glory as you buy the rest of Saginaw precious breathing room.

[wanton ermine]

alright sure why not, which hex do you mean?

[spare bay]

AL13

[vocal scarab]

Trying to figure out my play this turn... maybe try and skirmish at the retreating vanguard and rocket artillery in the back there on AJ10?

[slow copper]

I am going to drop into AL08 unless @sacred valley wants to advance into AM08 to make sure the enemies don't try to barge into there

[heady moat]

hell yeah I'll back you up, get some Air Support going

will my order totally whiff if no battle happens there? certainly. but thus are the risks of war

[lyric harbor]

ikr? Order submitted anyway

[heady moat]

same

[vocal scarab]

I think this might indeed be my play

...Hm. I could full on assault on them actually

[spare bay]

I'm already going to AN08. It's not possible for the Vanguard to reach AM08 without passing through that tile.

[spare bay]

how will you reach them?

[slow copper]

I'm just paranoid that the breachers will try to drive into the Eastern city tile lol

[spare bay]

valid if no one else is taking care of them

wasn't sure if a more offensive posture from Thundermaw would be more worth it, is all

since the northern city tile shouldn't be reachable by any of the enemy units, at least any visible ones, anyways

[trail fractal]

There is a lot of difficult terrain in the way, unless you expect the enemy to move out of the way for you?

[vocal scarab]

Oh, I didn't even clock that

[trail fractal]

AJ11 is fairly safe from land assault this turn, unfortunately

[vocal scarab]

Actually is that the signifer for difficult terrain? I never actually saw a lexicon for that

[slow copper]

Suki is assaulting a base, so we're leaving the Eastern tile undefended from the south

[trail fractal]

The triangle is indeed difficult terrain, so are rivers.

[slow copper]

One day, I'll know the difference between East and West

[spare bay]

have our armored drop troops committed to anywhere yet?

[slow copper]

I think they should commit to taking a city

We should be able to hold Saginaw and take a southern city and win this round imo

[heady moat]

even if we don't win this turn exactly, I think we'll manage it next turn as I don't see the enemy being able to take Saginaw in its entirety that quickly

[spare bay]

Suki is unlikely to succeed on the base assault if they go in alone tho

[heady moat]

hey, i'm giving air support

[floral patio]

Ok I'm reinforcing AK10

This means no one is in A stance on AL10, so good luck to the airbase and all that.

[spare bay]

Do you mean AK09? We don't occupy AK10

AL10 is the crossroads

if we're leaving AL09 undefended, then yeah that makes me a bit nervous

[spare bay]

double check that you've submitted the correct coordinates, or else I'm not sure what will happen to your order

[sweet cobalt]

When’s the turn due?

[spare bay]

2 hours from now

wait that's a lie

in 15 minutes lmao

[sweet cobalt]

And are @worthy pelican and I just dropping on Ypsilanti to try and close out the scenario before?

Yikes, lemme go do that 😅

[spare bay]

<@&1310264693650362378> order's due in 15 minutes!

[worthy pelican]

Oh shoot, I thought they were due tomorrow

[wicked plover]

Oop, same

[spare bay]

Kalamazoo is a better target

[slow copper]

Hopefully you can send that drop order in time and/or rom is a hero

[worthy pelican]

Right, that sounds like the plan. Submitting imminently

[slow copper]

We decided on Ypsilanti so they can be useful after faster iirc

[wicked plover]

Uh, anything I wanna do other than hold position?

[slow copper]

Where are you again?

[wicked plover]

On the airport

[sweet cobalt]

Yeah, thought it was Ypsilanti and then hike up the road towards Saginaw

[spare bay]

if you're feeling bold, you should assault something

[slow copper]

That's a reasonable thing to do

[spare bay]

like the enemy airfield

[worthy pelican]

AS16, right?

[slow copper]

I think it's better to behave maximally defensively to secure victory. Ok particular there are some units that can attack the airport from multiple directions

[sweet cobalt]

Just did the same thing. AS16 looks right

[worthy pelican]

Submitted

[spare bay]

godspeed, gentlemen

[sweet cobalt]

Submitted!

[wicked plover]

Nah, Saginaw

[spare bay]

?

[wicked plover]

Oh, spaceport, not airport, sry

[spare bay]

I'm saying, you could fly over to the enemy airfield

you're an Airmobile, right?

you'd need someone to suppress the SAM there tho

[wicked plover]

What if I jump Condor 1 base?

[spare bay]

we don't know which base belongs to which unit