LANCER One-Shot Module Jam

[upper loom]

sry sry

[upper loom]

will there be a limited things we can choose from or is it going to be all of them

[idle cedar]

There's gonna be 10 to choose from

doing final changes before publishing rn

[upper loom]

epic

[idle cedar]

Poll's up! Will be updating the top post and jam page momentarily
https://forms.gle/hmm2t1kQFxrg6NYC8

[hollow turtle]

LETS GO

[idle cedar]

the themes are shuffled so it'll be in different order for everyone. Feel free to discuss what you want to see!

[hollow turtle]

THEME TIME

[idle cedar]

is https://itch.io down for anyone else?

[upper loom]

yea

[idle cedar]

[last frigate]

took a few refreshes for me

[idle cedar]

looking at the poll results and not livetweeting it here is going to be a struggle for me

election season just ended too

[tepid pecan]

i think i voted for four or five

we just voted not even 60 seconds ago and already forgot lmao

[idle cedar]

there's a lot of candidates

[tepid pecan]

no i just cant remember if i voted for secrets or not

[idle cedar]

oh
the most recent vote said yes to secrets, it may or may not be yours though

the one before is 2 minutes ago so I think it's yours

[upper loom]

can you say if the voting is spread or if there are clear frontrunners?

[idle cedar]

too early to call ofc but it's close

[upper loom]

ugh damn

[idle cedar]

there are some clear losers though

which will of course not be announced but I feel like y'all can just guess

[upper loom]

im guessing two worlds is not popular

or secrets

[idle cedar]

i can neither confirm nor deny

[upper loom]

damn

[upper loom]

thats hilarious

[idle cedar]

I'm pretty fond of Two Worlds personally
can be literally two worlds (planets), can be class disparity (upper city and slums), can be colonization ("new world" and "old world"), the classic HA vs KTB conflict...

[upper loom]

that is true, but that feels like a lot of context for a one shot

hm

bbbut ig it can be simple

romeo juliet

[idle cedar]

and secrets I feel like also has a lot of potential

everyone has some sort of secret, right
could focus on the secret of the main party, maybe it's some skeleton in the closet that you're trying to uncover, or trying to keep hidden, could be raiding an info vault for secret plans, secret superweapon, etc

I can probably come up with 5 different concept for each of these themes (some of which may overlap across themes, though)

[tepid pecan]

secrets isnt really my favorite, but i found it infinitely more comeppling than train crime or gamble

[upper loom]

really more than train?

[tepid pecan]

yeah

[upper loom]

train to me is like boom train heist

[tepid pecan]

a train is just an object

[idle cedar]

train can be physical train or training, or something like underground railroad

[tepid pecan]

i should note that i dont really think train heist is someting i'd get out of bed for/show curiosity for either

[upper loom]

i see

[idle cedar]

but yeah I would not want to see like, 30 different takes on train heist

there's gonna be some really cool stuff in there but

[tepid pecan]

two worlds or secrets or generation all have like, a lot more potential ways to go than "300 submissions about trains/train hesits"

[upper loom]

that is true

[idle cedar]

crime is pretty broad though imo
you could be the criminals, you could be fighting crime, or maybe your existence is made a crime
the crime could be grand theft auto/mech, assassination, vandalism, hacking, or some other future crime that doesn't exist yet

gamble I don't feel super strongly about, but there were a few cool stuff in the suggestions
there's the most literal sense of gambling, but there's also like gambling with the future of something, casino heist, prizefighting, running away from debt collectors...

[upper loom]

could also be like a super mega gamble in the sense of stakes

[idle cedar]

mhmm

[tepid pecan]

oh i thought of the "stakes are a gamble" thing already yeah it just still felt too narrow to me

crime we were 50/50 on but i think i leaned towards no

[idle cedar]

I mean of course I'm not gonna ask people to vote yes on everything because what's the point then lol
I do wanna leave it up to the community to decide, but I think each of the 10 has pretty good potential

[upper loom]

yep

[tepid pecan]

mm

[upper loom]

im excited to get starter

[tepid pecan]

just our personal views

[idle cedar]

yep yep

i'm mostly speaking for the themes so other people can see it and think about it before voting

[upper loom]

abs

[tepid pecan]

oh the itch thing...

[idle cedar]

i updated the page right before it went down, so the poll should be there as soon as it comes back up

[tepid pecan]

i have to collect a payment 😔

[idle cedar]

ahhhhh

[ornate mist]

Yay

Writing something modular whose start and end can be cut and rename and plugged anywhere in any campaign sound super cool

One of my idea for combat/story integration is having the 2 in the same place, even with effects on the sitrep

Something like 8 rounds of combat, after the first 4, a twist happen based on a narrative section, and the last 4 round change objective

[honest pawn]

This sucks, and I think it highlights another benefit of publishing on multiple platforms just in case something dumb as hell (but more catastrophically permanent) occurs for one publishing site.

[buoyant snow]

im surprised Train made it through

[neon hearth]

at heart all hobbies are model trains
the gamers, they yearn for the railroads

[idle cedar]

interview with @left mirage happening later today!

[onyx fractal]

Voted for my picks 👍

[crystal wigeon]

I voted for everything that I think is vague enough that everyone's interpretations are likely to be different in the end lineup. Like anything can be secret, but Train would result in every submission heavily featuring a train unless purposefully downplaying or creatively interpreting the prompt. Revolution you're almost certainly going to be playing revolutionaries of some kind, etc. Which might be fine but maybe not for a first jam of its kind, you know?

[fierce sedge]

Coincidentally Trains do contain many revolutions too.

Though part of the fun with themes is imagining and reimagining what they could mean

[idle cedar]

revolutions per minute

[idle cedar]

there's been some delays, but we're starting soon!

oh this is really cool
literally just a logo to use to show that you didn't use genAI art
https://hinokodo.itch.io/human-made

it doesn't have any restriction on ai generated text, but

[honest pawn]

It's a good one! This one is to indicate completely AI free if you need that: https://lonearchivist.itch.io/made-by-humans

[idle cedar]

this is some real shit

[onyx fractal]

lol

I've never been quite sure how to categorize the usage of genAI for brainstorming or even a Very Expensive and Energy Inefficient Thesaurus

[idle cedar]

I think brainstorming is generally considered ok

as long as the final product isn't genAI?

that's my understanding at least

[honest pawn]

pinterest is like a big moodboard, and have you seen how atrocious folks are at attribution on pinterest?

general ideas aren't copyrightable, too, it's about the interpretation

EDIT 2024-12-11: for folks reading the archives, I no longer hold the position that it’s ok to use GenAI to brainstorm. There’s so many more brainstorming options out there that don’t involve driving traffic to companies with unethical GenAI practices.

[onyx fractal]

Yeah I have no intention of slam jamming genAI text into a module lol

Every word shall be considered

[left mirage]

SORRY FOR THE DELAY FOLKS WE ARE LIVE
https://youtube.com/live/9s6gdJ5bwOo?feature=share

[neon hearth]

Train, could be an engine and cargo on rails. Could be practice and teaching. Could be the act of aiming a weapon steadily on a target. Could be a body of followers and retainers.

[unborn bridge]

Train could also mean akin to a train of people

[idle cedar]

thank you for inviting me over @left mirage! That was a cool experience :)

[left mirage]

This was fucking awesome, ty again Suji!

Once the HD is processed I can trim the dead air off the original stream

[steel fog]

I've made my vote

I'm getting steadily more excited

[idle cedar]

it's getting super hype

[left mirage]

HYYYYYPE

[potent axle]

Nice stream btw, I couldn't lock in 100% while I was working but some nice topics and food for thought.

[ornate mist]

HYPE

[idle cedar]

I kinda wanna do a stream in this discord rather than setting up some thing on my own

[pastel thunder]

you could communicate w/someone to stream the discord event to twitch to allow itch and non discord users to participate in the stream^^

[idle cedar]

actually yeah that's probably best, since not all the participants are on discord I think

was gonna ask a mod for stage but that's a better call imo

[ornate mist]

What is the schedule for the event?

[pastel thunder]

you could get eld to @ here this thread to only ping this thread for the discord announcement, then get a proxy to stream that event to twitch for ya

unless ya want to try and @ the whole server

[idle cedar]

I think everyone ping pings everyone in this channel, which is everyone subscribed to this channel
here ping only pings people who are online rn

[pastel thunder]

everyone pings everyone

you can infact ping people who are out of the thread to pull them into the thread, as @ everyone would @ all availible people it would ping all 40000 people in this server

[idle cedar]

hmm

I know here ping doesn't work for people who aren't online at the time

but also like, that isn't really the issue lol

I just don't wanna set up twitch or whatever

[pastel thunder]

ye we're just sayin you can get a proxy to twitch stream so you can focus on discord related quarrels

[potent axle]

For pings another alternative is to organise a role that people can opt in to; that will bypass the online requirement and avoid hitting the entire server, but does require people to opt in to it.

If one were to go that way, pinging here and role at the same time would probably be the best coverage you could get without it being server wide.

[delicate geode]

Voted. May the most based theme win.

[idle cedar]

it's everyone in the channel

not that I'll need it in any case

[idle cedar]

Thinking about an idea:
I wanna start everyone scattered (or maybe split 2/2) initially after a bad fight, as a premise.
First act is basically just trying to find each other and regroup before doing short repair and getting into next combat.

While scattered, I think one group will encounter a lone hunter-killer trying to pick off stragglers, and do a roll to try to take them down or evade them, and this can affect reinforcement in the combat.
If you evade successfully, it's one fewer Assassin in the reinforcements, but if you decide to fight or get caught, it's a narrative combat, where you might lose some structures but eventually take them down.

goal is that by the time you regroup, everyone should have not enough repairs to completely heal up

[honest pawn]

This could be cool

Something weird that popped in my head could be the “simultaneous combats on two maps” but I don’t know if that would fit time constraints

Could do it simultaneous in narrative too though

[idle cedar]

incidentally, evasion will probably take less time, which is compliant with the tip (I think yours?) of having longer narrative scene and shorter combat, or shorter narrative scene and longer combat

I think narratively, everyone will have some sort of challenge near simultaneously

[idle cedar]

thinking about having a air defense array you can destroy but idk how to present a negative consequence for it

it definitely feels like the right answer is to attack it, regardless of the cost

[honest pawn]

This was indeed the style I was suggesting and planning to explore in my hypothetical oneshot

[left mirage]

negative consequences for attacking it or for failing to destroy it?

[idle cedar]

like a cost for attacking it but also like, making it feel like a real choice and not just "well obviously I'll try to get a reserve"

maybe -1 to round count from causing too much disturbance in the area or something? that might be a reasonable cost

[fierce sedge]

With all players on both, or divided in two groups where some are on one side and the rest on the other?

[ornate mist]

Maybe alternative route that dont require destroying it?

[honest pawn]

Like what you’ve described in the past

[left mirage]

Well if there are no air defenses then aircraft friendly to the defense grid are good to engage nearby

so, vehicle reinforcement

[fierce sedge]

Mm was gonna mention that the latter is much easier to execute

[honest pawn]

Where some folks are fighting in one place and others are elsewhere (fighting or otherwise)

[ornate mist]

Like, destroy antiair to allow ally bomber, or assist infantry to gain them as ally in combat

[fierce sedge]

And a lot of fun; I should do it again sometime.

[ornate mist]

2 different reserves, pick 1

[honest pawn]

That too tbh, that could work

[fierce sedge]

There's an Advance Wars mission gimmick from way past where you'd have a ground battle on one screen and an aerial one on another, and I feel you could do something like that with Lancer too.

The ground team is responsible for launching missiles up into the air, and the air one is there to guide and protect them.

[onyx fractal]

Time split combat: players in the past alter the battlefield and create resources that players in the future can use or abuse

[fierce sedge]

Want to go up to the sky team to help? Hook onto a missile. Want to come down to earth to help out? Simply shut off your main thrusters.

Would prolly get a little silly if people can just do orbital drops wherever they want to, but eh that also sounds like it'd be fun.

[idle cedar]

no reward is pretty easy, I'm having issue with the cost mostly
I'll play around with the -1 round idea, which is the most obvious way to communicate "you're getting a shorter combat"

[left mirage]

Thats what I mean,the cost is an enemy aircraft (friendly to the AA installation)

[idle cedar]

why would enemy aircraft be inhibited by enemy anti air system

[neon hearth]

honestly I wonder if I would find that easier or smoother to run
would be able to maintain momentum by shifting focus from battlefield to battlefield

[left mirage]

friendly fire!

airspace restrictions are a thing in modern times even for civilian installations like airports

Just something to consider :D

[idle cedar]

idk the idea of "take this thing down that the enemies placed which is harmful to both you and the enemies" doesn't really make sense to me

[neon hearth]

Friendly fire is a real concern but like, Lancer simply doesn't do enough friction of war to really make sense in a Lancer context.

[idle cedar]

"you create enemy awareness every time you do something" seems like an interesting direction though, I might take that as the standard cost
"you get cool stuff that can help you, you better use it right to actually finish faster"

[left mirage]

Moreso that engaging your enemies while directly above friendly guns is typically a Bad Idea, the idea being you don't need to engage where the friendly AA installation lives

but if someone takes out your friendly AA installation, you need to respond before they take out more stuff bc your forces are now more spread out

[idle cedar]

but also the reward shouldn't overcomplicate things and make players take longer to decide what to do

[left mirage]

Yeah!

[idle cedar]

mm okay yeah i can see the logic behind it

[left mirage]

This is just a directional example, I think there are a ton of good ways to express this concept so go with one you believe in

[left mirage]

lol
lmao

[idle cedar]

standard 8 round combat for 4 players, and if everyone tries to take the reward, you get 4 rounds to do the objective

[left mirage]

I could put more disclaimers up about the type of game you're running but tbh we got there anyways

[idle cedar]

if they scale up and go to 5 players and they all take it... god bless their souls

i should not work on it too much right now, that'd be cheating

(whether it really is cheating is left as an exercise to the reader)

(more seriously: do whatever amount of prep you feel like doing, it's okay)

i just feel like I shouldn't, as the only person who can see the poll results
I should just stop looking at it until it closes

[left mirage]

it's not really prep until the poll closes yknow

before then it's practice, only there aren't that many design quizzes out there (not without some digging)

go nuts

[idle cedar]

i might do some layout experiments

but I'll stop working on content for now

[left mirage]

Side note, engineer turrets (skyshield protocol, arsenal: hellstorm) would perfectly represent flak cannons in an AA grid with their increased accuracy vs flying targets + blast radius and risk of friendly fire bc half of the core NPCs have that risk built in

but now I will cease tempting you to keep working 😆

[idle cedar]

just rediscovered the oldest graphic design trick that everyone probably already knows

was gonna experiment with the "coffee cup stain" vibes but honestly clean line looks pretty nice too

[hollow turtle]

Cirrrrrcles

Rule of threes

[idle cedar]

oh that's the thing that siths do right

I should perhaps actually read up on layouts

[hollow turtle]

rule of threes is an easy one

[idle cedar]

google slides actually let you add guidelines

it's getting a bit too messy but pay no mind to that, just look at the guideline

[fierce sedge]

You can even run rpgs in it!

[onyx fractal]

That's against the guidelines

[idle cedar]

chat what do y'all think, is this good

trying to fit in mech sheet in the bottom half which, idk if it'll work out but lol

or bottom 2/3 yk

[honest pawn]

Huh not bad, though I might suggest compressing the stats to abbreviations for space. Then you might be able to fit a small Pilot Portrait box (folks love those)

[idle cedar]

true! there was a bit of space and I didn't know what to do with it

I can shift stuff around a bit more

some other thoughts are:

• maybe cut down skill triggers to 3?
• maybe just one pilot weapon and 2 gears?
• use d20 symbol for anything that affects rolls? (skill triggers, attack rolls, etc)

also, as expected, alignment is hell

I do like the d20 icon (even if it's not perhaps geometrically accurate)

maybe not d20 logo for grit though since it also affects HP and SP

and just put that logo next to weapons instead

with the goal being making it easier to see what all the bonuses are

[honest pawn]

It’s a nice indicator, imo

[idle cedar]

testing out dice icon next to weapons

I think having it next to pilot weapon is a bit excessive, just checking to see how it would look for mech sheet

I don't really like the d6 to note accuracy/difficulty

that seems super excessive

oh huh pilot grenade is a forced save and pilot sheet doesn't have save target written on it

apparently it's 10+grit but

I guess there's now room for save target

man, do I even wanna add a slot for that

this looks nice actually

[honest pawn]

Surprised you haven’t gone for the easy “LL” instead of License Level yet haha

But yeah I dig how that’s developing

[idle cedar]

idk I like writing it out bc everyone knows "level" but not everyone knows what "LL" is

[delicate geode]

"LL? That'd be Love Live, the famous Japanese multimedia franchise, right?"
Something someone probably asked, maybe.

[idle cedar]

ok this is it for today
probably needs more work but

I am become sleeby, goer to bd

[idle cedar]

ah forgot core bonus and talents

[honest pawn]

I mean, it’s literally the abbreviation from page 18 of the Lancer Core Book

Frame stuff looks good!

[neon hearth]

the waters continue to rise https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qwaEj_l1bDg80NUkzKqu43sqHbGmLIYHDI8Dtoq3TPw/edit?tab=t.0

[onyx fractal]

Jam theme announced today? 👀

[eternal dagger]

I thought it was the 22nd but I could be wrong

[ornate mist]

👀

[onyx fractal]

I thought the theme was going to be announced in advance of the jam

Maybe that changed and I missed it

[idle cedar]

nah it's still getting announced at the start of jam

[onyx fractal]

ah

[idle cedar]

the poll for suggestion closed and poll for vote opened

and it's open until 24 hours before start

[onyx fractal]

I see

It said the poll would close in 24h

I got jebaited

[idle cedar]

oh shoot did I write it like that, mb

[onyx fractal]

No I misread

It says it would be closed 24h before the jam starts

I read it as "closes in 24h"

so, my bad

[idle cedar]

ah kk

added bold for emphasis

you almost got me clicking on results

but I resisted

[onyx fractal]

bazinga

[upper loom]

i wanna know so bad

im so excited to get craking

[neon hearth]

One of the big things I'm taking away from trying to make a trifold is how much less efficient, in terms of playable time for space, Lancer modules are using linear conventions.

At the same time, those conventions feel necessary

because trying to write a module like a CBR+PNK or Mothership module leaves a ton of work to the GM and produces something that can't be just picked up and used.

A question I have is whether it is possible (or worth it) to sacrifice that immediate usability for efficiency + a more dynamic premise.

[onyx fractal]

That's one of my big criticisms of Lancer, because at the very least, a system like Mothership has a world-class book about how to GM the game, whereas Lancer's GM tools/advice are pretty threadbare. That means a lot of work is placed on adventure writers to fill in the gaps left by the core book

But even if an aftermarket Lancer GM guide was released, it sucks to have to say "in order to understand wtf to do with this module, go get this other thing first and read it"

I don't know the best way to handle it; right now my solution is to make a zine instead of a pamphlet so that I can give myself a page or spread worth of advice to impart to the GM on how to run the module and use the content

[neon hearth]

Yeah your option is a mix of "just use more space" and "trust the GM".

The catch with the latter is that it limits your audience to people who kind of already know what they're doing.

[onyx fractal]

The catch with the former is that you're cursed with repeating the same information in every product

[neon hearth]

Also, I think that a looser style just inherently makes more sense in longer missions/campaigns.

The closer you are to oneshot, the more the whole value of your module is "I have everything I need to run this one specific thing right here".

Which for Lancer, means maps, OpFor, etc

[onyx fractal]

If I were to write a longer mission/campaign I don't think I would make maps or opfors, but instead rely on faction rosters

But that's a much longer conversation and is non-trivial to explain to GMs how those work

[neon hearth]

Right that's kinda my point
but like, if I pick up a oneshot
and it doesn't have a map or OpFor
like, those are the things I need for the oneshot
whatever it is you're providing me in the module, it's probably not significantly reducing my workload
or giving me enough to start playing immediately
which is what I want from a oneshot

[onyx fractal]

Right for sure

There's a part of me that wishes I didn't have to provide a map but I think that would put me too far outside the bounds of what people would expect from a one shot

[neon hearth]

I mean it's a perfectly reasonable expectation
if you don't have a map
you can't really run the thing
and making a map takes time and effort

[onyx fractal]

My hot take is that "making a map takes time and effort" is one of the gaps the GM book leaves, because I can shit out a functional map in like 5 minutes

But that builds on a body of knowledge and advice that I've accumulated

I can't assume new GMs will have the knowledge and skill set to feel comfortable doing that

[neon hearth]

Oh, sure. Same, especially if I have access to tools, but markers and a battle mat still work.

And like, even not-new GMs might not want to do it!

[onyx fractal]

Most Lancer content out there provides GMs a set of combats and maps that allow GMs to walk their players through a story, and for groups looking for that kind of experience, that's great. That said, I think there's another subset of RPG groups who want a more open-ended experience from published content, and to an extent, pre-determined combats can run counter to that desire

I would love to make content that appeals to that latter group but I don't think I can do it without some GM training involved

And a one-shot isn't the context for that either

[idle cedar]

i think giving tips without having a dedicated section of the book is to scatter the tips throughout the module

[neon hearth]

I mean, sure, but that sucks to do in its own way

[idle cedar]

like have a little box that says "when the players do X, ask Y and write it down" type thing

[neon hearth]

the point is that you want to get to the point where you don't need to be that granular

If someone wants to make the Lancer equivalent of Pound of Flesh...

(its me I want to do that)

(also I want someone else to do it)

[honest pawn]

tbf I think a lot of Mothership modules inherently include the rules, tools, and procedures necessary to run them

[neon hearth]

The thing with Mothership is that like
they do things like
have 2d10 cyberzombies attack
and the GM is expected to be able to just roll with that

[idle cedar]

sure, I guess I'm trying to say guiding them through what you can do can help

like to teach new GMs on how to do things

[honest pawn]

I think right now the best thing we can do is explore the space and see what we can do with the time/space/materials allotted

[neon hearth]

if there's a fight in a Lancer module, it's a bespoke set piece almost fully dictated by the text, not something that the module trusts the GM to setup and adjudicate

[fierce sedge]

Yeah, after dinner today I'm planning on finishing my reading and feel things out for that reason

[fierce sedge]

Because to some extent, if you're rolling for 2d10 of X enemies to attack it to me at least implies the system isn't that interested in the granularities of something.

[honest pawn]

Death on the Glacier/Stolen Crown may be worth looking at for those looking for counterexamples, then. I know they don't handle it perfectly, but that just means there's lessons to be learned

[fierce sedge]

It's a thing I've in the past have to some extent had an issue with in terms of random encounters, but I do think there's also space for a more granular approach (at least that's what I'm interested in lol), which still allows for flexibility.

[onyx fractal]

Not enough Lancer adventure authors have read Stolen Crown 😤

[fierce sedge]

And agreed there; I've talked about my misgivings with that module, but they are misgivings I'm happy to have because they're born from the module trying something.

[onyx fractal]

It has plenty of flaws but I love what it tries to do

[fierce sedge]

And I find that more interesting than "I suppose this is good".

[neon hearth]

Yeah that's one of the very few counterexamples

[onyx fractal]

I would love to be a source of more counterexamples

[honest pawn]

there are still 8434 community copies for Death on the Glacier so yeah

[fierce sedge]

Mind you I still want to make a proper Etrian Odyssey style dungeon crawl sometime lol, but a point crawl requires less work.

[fierce sedge]

Good god

[honest pawn]

they started with 10000 copies so yeah

[fierce sedge]

That's a lot

[honest pawn]

everyone in here should grab one for market research IMO lol

[onyx fractal]

honestly all of stolen crown is great to read for research

more examples of stuff that doesn't mimic official massif content pls

[honest pawn]

no argument there, I'm just saying that there's free material to look at, for folks on a budget

[fierce sedge]

But either way, I think the two things I'll want to try to feel out are as follows.

1. How easy is it for a GM to set up a map with varying objectives quickly? I think I can simplify the process a good deal, but it's partially a question of how much of a guide I have to make for the map.

2. How much of a roster do I need to provide for each scenario?

But yeah I'll get my food done, sit down and finish my reading, and after that return to that general map design. Think it should all in all be rather good.

As for pound of flesh, it's funny how some of the maps in it, specifically the Tempest Company HQ one, are reminiscent of an earlier draft I had of a megadungeon of sorts. That one I scrapped due to being too complicated however.

[onyx fractal]

Was Wallflower successful despite shipping without maps?

(arguably it would have been more successful if it had shipped with maps)

[honest pawn]

It was the first Lancer adventure ever published so yeah I think it succeeded based on sheer demand (depending on your metric of success)

[fierce sedge]

Which something to also keep in mind with it is that it shipped with a strong story, was in the spotlight, and did come with its own set of art and content.

[onyx fractal]

For sure. I think it can be an easy trap to write Lancer adventures as combats first with the narrative framing around them as a sort of afterthought

[neon hearth]

It depends on what you think the value add of the module is

if the thing you think the audience needs is "how to set up and run a fight", that's what you publish

[onyx fractal]

Fair? Maybe "trap" is an opinionated word there

[neon hearth]

Like I think it makes absolute sense for Solstice Rain to do that

Wallflower is...it probably shouldn't have needed to, but as the first Lancer module, it probably kinda had to? Since, as you say, the core book sort of...didn't.

[onyx fractal]

I suppose, then, I think that the narrative context of an adventure would be the lowest hanging fruit in terms of opportunities for improvement

An adventure with a compelling premise that still has a baked-in combat is going to serve the "we just wanna shoot robots" group just as well

But that isn't to say that an adventure with a token premise is "worse", just targeted at a different audience

[neon hearth]

Would you say any of the existing 1st party modules have a token premise?

I'm not sure I would.

[onyx fractal]

I don't think I would go as far to call them "token", but I have heard people criticize SR for being a series of combats

[idle cedar]

there's so many current issues to make a thinly veiled satire oneshot about

maybe I shouldn't, but it would be funny if I did

[fierce sedge]

If the satire has something to say, sure.

[neon hearth]

can I interest you in Deals and Dementia ?

[fierce sedge]

But underpinning these discussions I feel it's valid to mention that there isn't an inherent fault with a linear approach, nor that one is in some way superior to another.

What I put together and work with tends to be within the realm of what I find interesting for its own sake, which is why the audience it's directed at is at the end of the day kinda just me.

If you're creating something as a commercial product compared to if you're experimenting are I feel different things.

Like whatever I make I'm not expecting to be asking any money for, because I just want to test some of my own principles and don't want to get bogged down with the concern over whether or not it matches the value add of other modules.

If I instead get to prove a theory and open up for new spaces which you can work with, I'm happy as is.

[ornate mist]

What if I make a module which is just me ripping the whole plot of Metal Wolf Chaos

[potent axle]

Please do

[ornate mist]

Escort mission a president to their White Fight House, where you expect the module to end, but then additional enemy reinforcement surrounds the place, so the president themselves walk out with their own mech, while talking like they are a shounen protagonist

But seriously though

What is a better introduction on an optimist setting than a bombastic and optimism inspiring character?

A dream for a better reality where leader are 100% dedicated to the good of their people and will sacrifice themselves on the frontline to do so

[honest pawn]

Do it, absolutely

Ideas are fair game for pilfering

[ornate mist]

[honest pawn]

It’s your interpretation that matters

[idle cedar]

that should probably work with most themes

[ornate mist]

The White House is on a Train XD

[honest pawn]

I modeled Pierce the Heavens after the pilot episode of Gurren Lagan

[idle cedar]

as a nobility hater, I still think nobles doing noblesse oblige stuff is cool

[honest pawn]

Folks have been riffing on Die Hard for a lot of modules for other systems

[idle cedar]

so if it's a democratically elected public official doing noblesse oblige?

[honest pawn]

Now let’s go a step further maybe: one shot scenario where one of the players plays this president and others play their cabinet

Department of Agriculture about to show them why it’s called a Haymaker

But see that’s how I’d maybe riff on it, that’s just 1 Interpretation, and you’ll have a different one from the same idea

[ornate mist]

I am not sure about having a player play such a specific role in an oneshot, I think I will give them a dmpc-ish kinda role.

[honest pawn]

I’m allergic to DMPCs, which is reflected in my suggestion lol

If you got something tho, run with it

[ornate mist]

Same, I would rather not have to do it, but maybe I can make it work...

[honest pawn]

Give the democratic leader a support mech to make everyone else look good, maybe

“In Union, we lift each other up to reach the summit”

[ornate mist]

"Because the people believed in me, I shall be the star that inspires them all. For the freedom of everyone in this great land, I shall never give up! For I, am the president of the great insert country name !!!"

[neon hearth]

The Secretary of Education is about to take em to school.

[onyx fractal]

As I ponder adventure ideas ahead of the theme reveal, I'm gonna start taking this approach: https://www.mindstormpress.com/question-based-adventure-design

Just writing down ideas and questions and keeping them in a document as I go about my day

[honest pawn]

Excellent, lunch reading material

[onyx fractal]

Also channeling big "Shitty First Drafts" energy: https://wrd.as.uky.edu/sites/default/files/1-Shitty First Drafts.pdf

[idle cedar]

less than 10 days left huh

[hasty tartan]

I am very excited to get started!

[neon hearth]

I think my next little module experiment will be...what if 5-Node Mystery, but make it Lancer?

[sharp summit]

I am considering, given the difficulties in balacing a single combat and my utter lack of experience with Lancer, doing an entirely narrative one-shot with no mech combat

Though I suppose not many people would want to play a Lancer module without mechs

[idle cedar]

just providing enough framing for people to build combats upon might be fine

or heck, maybe the conflict is fully resolvable without combat

maybe you could also collaborate with someone who's more experienced with writing combat?

[honest pawn]

Doing a narrative one shot is viable imo, I’ve done full narrative sessions before

It’ll be unconventional but it could work

And frankly I think it wouldn’t hurt to put such a thing out there so folks can see just what can go into a Lancer game

[idle cedar]

I can see a reverse of that working too
just a combat, with explanation of how to run the combat, and some notes on how to reflavor it for your situation

[honest pawn]

Especially if you’re treating the one shot as a piece of a larger “mission”

[neon hearth]

My question at that point is more "what is the Lancer system giving you that you couldn't get better in any other lightweight system".

[idle cedar]

it allows you to use a lancer character sheet without changing anything

like this kind of sounds like a shitpost answer but

it is a real use case

[honest pawn]

Absolutely, like tbh I would’ve expected some one to make something like that for Lancer by now, but to my knowledge only one person has done this

[idle cedar]

making 20ish combats with each NPC class being the centerpiece 🤔

[honest pawn]

A narrative one shot that uses lancer’s licensed setting, which many folks enjoy on its own merits

Like tbh even if this oneshot jam was an “encounter jam” I’d call that a win

There’s just a heckin lot of ground that can be covered and I’ll encourage anyone and everyone to explore it

[neon hearth]

Sure, but there's nothing stopping you from running a game in the Lancer setting with something other than its very very lightweight system. Or just like no system at all, really.

[honest pawn]

It’s the same reason folks use 5e for everything

Momentum

I don’t think this needs much justification

[neon hearth]

new one-shot module plan:

write something set in Lancer's setting, that uses D&D 5e

[honest pawn]

lol. Well? We’re waiting!

[idle cedar]

write something in lancer setting but it uses dnd 4e

[honest pawn]

Write something lancer setting but it uses OD&D

[idle cedar]

write something in lancer setting but it uses CYOA format

[hollow turtle]

I am chewing the walls rn

I wanna know the theme so bad

[onyx fractal]

I'll run Winter's Daughter in Lancer, don't think I won't

[honest pawn]

Excellent, this’ll get the 5e folks coming in droves

[neon hearth]

Don't worry, the D&Dified Operator will scare them right off again.

[onyx fractal]

Can't decide if I'm horrified or impressed

darkvision 1000ft I appreciate it

[honest pawn]

¿Por qué no los dos?

[hollow turtle]

I have a sword and I have my stubbornness I would fight this

[neon hearth]

okay but consider the following:

is this mostly shitposting while waiting for food? yes

...might I end up talking myself into doing it anyway?

regrettably, also yes

[hollow turtle]

I"ll fight that too

Just give me a uh....

What's the D&D equivalent of 'Smart Weapon'

Intelligence based saving throw spells? (I don’t play D&D)

[ornate mist]

Lv20 dnd party of demigod vs, a bunch of mech

[idle cedar]

kind of a shitpost since we're in the mood for it:
CYOA style lancer adventure

ah heck I messed up a bullet point

[neon hearth]

okay

I think I'm done now

[fierce sedge]

Oh definitely, I've got a few scenarios with maps which are basically that.

One of which I should actually get to writing out as a full scenario for others to use, as a bit of practice.

I feel this harkens back to the question of what these modules intended use ultimately are.

Like, not everyone needs to make an intro module.

You can make something short and sweet that suits your needs, and that in turn makes it easy to recommend to others because it's likelier filling a unique niche.

But yeah, it's specifically this thing that I have to write out some notes for for the evening and how it may progress.

[ornate mist]

Mid campaign oneshot is definitely an unexplored space

Another idea I have is a silly filler episode kinda oneshot. The entire session is your favorite flavor of filler, from beach to sauna to camping to idk bruh.

Just insert your entire character cast in it

The module is just 20 different random rolltable

[honest pawn]

yeah beach episode lance oneshot when

[idle cedar]

wait I have something for this

go do a teambuilding event (you're still doing mech combat)

"so, what did everyone learn today?"
"I should overcharge more"
"umm... anything else?"
"nah"

[hollow turtle]

I was discussing the themes with my artist and I'm pretty locked in on the LL12 one shot idea

High level Lancer is sorely underrepresented (i understand why tho having run it more than a few times now) in content focused on it

[neon hearth]

we had ours a while ago

halfway through act 2

but we're in act 3 now

beaches are out

trauma is in

[onyx fractal]

I feel bad I don't have an artist lined up yet. Feels like too much to bite off for a first module. But also art is so damn important

I don't even know what kind of turnaround time to expect with an artist

[honest pawn]

it's a 2-week one shot jam tbf

[onyx fractal]

Lol shit for some reason I had it in my head that it was a month

I think all the other jams I've seen have been 1 month

[honest pawn]

well, this one is 2 weeks

[onyx fractal]

I'm starting to rethink my ability to deliver in the time frame

At least, to the standard I was hoping for

[neon hearth]

shrimply go fast

also, nothing stops you from like
releasing a revised version later

[onyx fractal]

Doesn't leave a lot of time for playtesting or refining

Sure

[honest pawn]

it'll probably allow for like, one playtest session to iron out the wrinkles, maybe more if you're ambitious

[idle cedar]

I've only seen like less than a week jams so I wanted to give time and go two weeks

[hollow turtle]

I know my artist and their turn around times are fast AND i warned them about the crunch

I definitely wouldn't stress about not having art

[idle cedar]

maybe it's too short?
but then I do want to encourage newer people to get involved in lower stake thing, and I think having it not be too long can also help set lower expectation on themselves

I'm just using public domain art, maybe with some editing

[upbeat drift]

I'm trying to get the Typst template done in time, so maybe that can help.

[hollow turtle]

I just know them and they agreed to the job as well

[honest pawn]

there's a reason I mentioned several free art sources in my community thread

[neon hearth]

yeah AIUI the point is to be short enough that the focus can just be
get something out the door

[idle cedar]

in particular, if Leviathan gets picked, I'm using some version of this in there

if other things get picked, idk, I'll look around

[hollow turtle]

Ooooo pretty

[idle cedar]

it's literally first result if you google leviathan haha
it's from wikipedia

Salvador Dali painting iirc

[hollow turtle]

Its very dramatic

I love it

[honest pawn]

it'll be that, or Hobbes lol

[idle cedar]

oh yeah the hobbes leviathan cover page is also iconic

just swap out the text with your own title

maybe hastily hand scrawled homage to this piece but with mechs

[honest pawn]

one big mech made up of many tiny mechs

[idle cedar]

there's plenty of public domain art for other things too
secrets, train, gamble, trophy, crime, revolution...

[neon hearth]

don't trust Big Mech

[idle cedar]

sad barbarossa noises

[honest pawn]

photoshopped Hobbes' Leviathan but instead of the king with body of subjects it's just the Balor mech art

[neon hearth]

just a billion Retrograde Default Assaults

[onyx fractal]

Time to bust out the typst template lol

we writing content into layout folks

strap on your boots

[ornate mist]

Maybe I should bust out my own drawing pen

[onyx fractal]

I wish I had a good digital drawing solution

I've been dragging my feet on getting either a new surface pro or even a drawing tablet

[idle cedar]

you are definitely allowed to use retrograde tokens for cover art

[idle cedar]

love the mspaint style art in this

[upbeat drift]

Can't use actual images, so I just scribbled over them.

[onyx fractal]

Very cool! I'm impressed

[honest pawn]

looks well put-together; notethough that FakeDrake's automatically replacing "Blast Plating" with " Plating"

[upbeat drift]

Yes, there will be notes about that.

[onyx fractal]

I'm going my own direction with the layout but this looks very cool

[upbeat drift]

Yeah, I'm trying to mimic the core book, and the LaTeX template.

[onyx fractal]

How long have you been working on this?

[upbeat drift]

Eh, three weeks? Not very seriously, Factorio came out.

[onyx fractal]

lol

[upbeat drift]

But importing a mech from the LCP is

#FrameAutomatic(lcp, "Drake", background:image(width:7in, "images/IPS-N-Background.png"))
#FullPageImageFramed(image("images/Drake-Facing.jpg"))
#LicenseAutomatic(lcp, upper("Drake"), 1)
#LicenseAutomatic(lcp, upper("Drake"), 2)
#LicenseAutomatic(lcp, upper("Drake"), 3)

[onyx fractal]

Oh wow

...typst can do JSON parsing?

[upbeat drift]

Now if the core LCP was actually, like, consistent, it would be so much easier.

Yep.

But I need to finish writing up how to do it manually, then set up the NPC page, and I can call that 1.0

[onyx fractal]

Seems like the smallcaps look a bit awkward maybe

That was one reason I ended up not liking Arimo, it didn't support smcp

[upbeat drift]

Honestly, the smallcaps was a bit awkward to begin with.

[honest pawn]

One day I'll find a better Helvetica alternative than Arimo

[onyx fractal]

I guess it depends on the PDF reader, Chrome looks like this

[onyx fractal]

My brief search only lead me as far as Roboto and then I gave up

[upbeat drift]

Oh that's weird.

[onyx fractal]

My solution is to bail on the official Lancer template entirely

[idle cedar]

yesss

make your own style

[upbeat drift]

Okay, slightly less good everywhere else, but chrome doesn't look screwy anymore.

[idle cedar]

classic web dev woes

[upbeat drift]

It's a PDF! mutter mutter

[idle cedar]

hot take: if it uses a browser, it's basically a website
-# a take so hot, i don't even believe it

[delicate geode]

Layouts are for fancy people.
I plan to make my One-Shoot look like this (two columns, hand-drawn maps), print it, drink some coffee on top of it, photocopy it (twice), scan it and that's it.

[idle cedar]

that's a cute font

I have also thoughts about coffee stains, though digitally simulated and not a real one

[onyx fractal]

Well, at least I got my itch tax interview out of the way

[idle cedar]

itch tax interview is a gateway to becoming a professional indie game developer

[left mirage]

🎶 *For he has cast down leviathan, the tyrant, and the horse and rider

Where is your rider?* 🎶

[neon hearth]

Where now are the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the harp on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?

[idle cedar]

WE HIT 100 PARTICIPANTS

103 pilots jammed

[tepid pecan]

😌

[neon hearth]

we WACP H0R_OS 1 in this

[idle cedar]

improbably dense ball of creators

[idle cedar]

played with some new players today to see what an intro oneshot module would need
I think shorter/faster sitrep is a must. Only got to go up to round 5/8 over 3 hours, and going a bit easy on the enemies.
The other thing is that there's a lot of resources that can make playing smoother! Totally forgot what new player experience was like, and that's with an experienced GM. It would have been even slower if it was my first time looking stuff up too.
I think I should maybe try to include player reference cards in my scope to really make it an intro module. New player aid is more necessary than I thought initially.
I also wanna try enforcing tactical diversity with premade character sheets. I was aiming for choosing from 6 or 8 sheets, but I think I'll just make 4 premade sheets to pick from. (+ option to make your own custom sheets)

(not that GMs need my permission to do so, but still)

also, with new players, idk if they really need the oneshot rules
I might present it as like, difficulty modifer for experienced player group
maybe just let the new players go ham with their core power and 1 heat overcharge

[thorny sand]

It might be worth making 2 versions of the encounter. One for beginners and one for experienced players so it's not exclusively one or the other. Only difference being premade sheet LL and encounter difficulty. Everything else is the same. I don't think it would add too much extra work

[idle cedar]

I'm currently thinking "use the 1 shot house rule for experienced group" but otherwise keep things the same.
like the whole "choose between core power and 1d6 overcharge or no core power and 1d3 overcharge" thing

new players don't need that

it's fine

it's not the normal lancer experience but

[thorny sand]

Ture. It's already been established one-shots aren't the intended experience so might as well lean into it and find creative ways to work within those restrictions

[tepid pecan]

What was the opfor and battle conditions, if I might ask?

[idle cedar]

used tomb of delios with 4 players

that's the map, extraction with no special effects. Enemy ingress on top and bottom, trickling in 2 units per round for reinforcement. Two of bastion, support, cataphract each, and a witch and rainmaker

[tepid pecan]

So just to get a total

One rainmaker one witch, two veteran bastions, two support, and two elite catapracts?

[idle cedar]

one elite cataphract, one regular cataphract
I ended up holding back a catapharact and a support

[tepid pecan]

Ahh

[idle cedar]

reinforcement order was:

1. witch, veteran bastion
2. elite cataphract, support
3. rainmaker, veteran bastion
4. (didn't do it)

[tepid pecan]

Optionals on each?

[idle cedar]

I didn't really use remote cloud and forgot about all the bastion optionals 😅

[tepid pecan]

Our hot one shot expert take™️ is that the npcs are a bit complex in both optional count and in types and individual classes, having an elite and regular version, only really rainmakers and witch are simple to use effectively, and there's no real midliner (i find good midliners serves to really simply the difficulty of encounter)

Bastion is the only one without a recharge ability on that list iirc

[idle cedar]

you are correct abt the recharge

[tepid pecan]

And I think very few of them can really spam the same turn over and over reliably, (witch has multiple recharges, bastion has loading, supports heavy on the recharge and positioning.)

I think if the goal is simplicity and you didn't want to change the npc types? I'd probably cut optionals from everything without a template

Esp wolfhound

Simplicity+ expediency

[idle cedar]

only the elite cataphract was present so i think it ended up fine on that front

[tepid pecan]

Chain is also a complex one, too yeah,

We've also found control or holdout or gauntlet to be among the fastest/simplest for one's hots, and yeah I agree heavily on having pre-made characters for players to use, or even a pre-made team for them to slot into

[idle cedar]

i was thinking gauntlet myself, I'll consider control though. I think I'd like that better

[tepid pecan]

yeah control and gauntlet both have enough "movement" to avoid having them stick on one spot but its not soo much that they get like, bogged down

i've also done reverse gauntlets as a deal, too, yeh,

[delicate geode]

Also of importance:
Map size

[tepid pecan]

yeah

[neon hearth]

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the things I find most interesting in Lancer you just

don't have room for in an intro scenario

[ornate mist]

well, it is not necessary to write an intro scenario

[honest pawn]

What Masto said, but I also understand that you’d want that Stuff to sell your game to folks

Especially if it’s representative of how you’ll be running the game in the long run

This is kinda why I’m not a big fan of not introducing bonds until ll1; ideally folks learn it early and get hooked on the style

[ornate mist]

i find that design decision very baffling too

[onyx fractal]

I was planning on printing these for my players https://heliospectral.itch.io/lancer-action-reference-sheet

[onyx fractal]

In the interest of time I might bail on the idea of making pregens but I just want to find some way to print characters from compcon

[neon hearth]

Its not necessary to write an intro scenario, but it is frustrating to me that so much of what I think makes good lancer scenario design is seemingly impossible to communicate in a session designed for new players

I haven't decided whehter I want to write an intro scenario; depennds on what folks decide to join me in doing some game design I think, and what they want to do.

[onyx fractal]

I think if you're inspired to make something different than a one-shot, that's perfectly fine. The purpose of a jam is to get people inspired and creating

[neon hearth]

I mean sure but I do want to make a oneshot

[onyx fractal]

The idea of making a one-shot, to me, is interesting because of the challenge, and because I think it can help get more people into the game

[ornate mist]

btw, as I am curious, what are some example you have in mind of that?

[neon hearth]

both because the form ensures a certain amount of discipline (and helps ensure something usable is actually finished)

but also because "I would like to be able get people into Lancer" is a goal I share, and oneshots are a way to do that

[onyx fractal]

I think the challenge of a one-shot is in deciding what parts of the Lancer experience are and are not important to represent in a single session

Because you can't do it all

[neon hearth]

I really like Valkyrion's work, Technophobia and the OSR Expansion.

I've also been working on a oneshot of my own, Hell or High Water: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qwaEj_l1bDg80NUkzKqu43sqHbGmLIYHDI8Dtoq3TPw/edit?tab=t.0

But Hell or High Water feels like it would be real rough to get through with new players. And I dunno if there's a good way to 'fix' that without breaking what I like about the scenario.

[onyx fractal]

This includes, but is not limited to:

• Narrative RP sections
• "Appropriate" combat difficulty
• Sitreps
• Mech-building
• Resource management over the course of a full mission
• Lore galore

[onyx fractal]

I currently have a pet idea for my one-shot but I'm concerned that either it won't fit the theme, or I won't be able to overcome some of the challenges I see in it for a one-shot, so I think I want to spend some time this week brainstorming some new ideas. I think my current idea is cool, but I don't want to get too attached to it if it won't work or will be too hard to contort into what I want to see. I think it's also okay to stick stuff into a WIP folder to come back to later

[fierce sedge]

Yeah, you only have so much time and have to decide what to do with it.

Which mind you is also a good way to help circumvent the classic mistake of not starting where things get interesting.

[honest pawn]

So what do you think they’ll struggle with? Players can be surprisingly resilient

Also: While I’m flattered you like my work, I’ll freely admit that there’s a LOT of lead-up information in Technophobia

[onyx fractal]

IMO a real key for a one-shot is to boil down the scenario to a single key conflict with well-defined stakes on each side

[neon hearth]

Yeah, Technophobia is what I consider some good Lancer scenario/encounter design, but it's also not what I'd introduce new players with in a one-shot.

Maybe if they're already hype for Lancer.

[honest pawn]

Honestly I think your clocks in High Water seem fine

“X success before y failure” is easy to grok

[neon hearth]

Basically, there's just a lot going on, and I'd worry that information overload would discourage people

[onyx fractal]

Maybe try challenging yourself to condense your description of the situation to, like, 3 sentences?

Even just as a personal exercise

To really get at the dramatic core of the scenario

Or, convert it to bullet points maybe?

[fierce sedge]

Reading through this, I think the only point of too much information would reasonably be the storm itself.

Mind you I'm not a super big fan of clocks as the forefront of a scene, moreso like to have them in the background, but how you're leveraging them seems fine here.

[honest pawn]

Yeah no having the general “it gets worse over time” is good imo but if anything try condensing it to basic bullet points

[fierce sedge]

The first time I ran what's now my standard introduction, I did use a 1d6 random table thing for the encounter. Each round I'd roll on it, something would happen, and when people deactivated the objectives more and more of its options would be brought offline.

But I scrapped that because it ended up being a bit of busywork which didn't add much.

[fierce sedge]

Yeah, if there's an effect table I like having it cover around at most 3 effects, and preferably be non-random.

The latter being a personal preference.

[honest pawn]

Effects that override lower-tier effects but logically extend from them are also good

[fierce sedge]

Tis why I commented on the storm being the only part where I'd be concerned about information overload, even if I think 6 sections will still work.

[honest pawn]

“Difficult terrain from mud” -> “pseudo zero g due to underwater”

[fierce sedge]

Oh definitely

[honest pawn]

Fewer breakpoints could be reasonable too

3 tiers but 2 segments to each tier

[fierce sedge]

Lol was about to suggest that

That you can do 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 as the same ones.

[honest pawn]

Stacking these:
Tier 1: Soft Cover due to heavy rain
Tier 2: Difficult terrain due to mud
Tier 3: 1d3 Thunderbolts start raining on random mechs

[fierce sedge]

I do think that in this specific instance you could probably get away with a fourth tier, in that "When the clock is full, the next time you'd add a segment to it, the flood is here and the city is doomed"

Since at that point it's just a failure condition.

The overall point is just to not hand the group too many balls to juggle at the same time

[neon hearth]

I like my distinct effects but that's a good thought
I'll see about that in the next version, or after some testing

the rising and falling water is the most complicated effect but also the one that's most dynamic and interesting

[honest pawn]

Actually @neon hearth there’s a similar situation in a Mothership module: ||Another Bug Hunt||. Uses a 10-hour timeline for evacuation

[neon hearth]

yep that's also a source of inspiration

[honest pawn]

But yeah if you’re trying to make this introductory then like, complicated effects are gonna be your bane

Even if they’re clever and dynamic

If anything I’d say to make it your centerpiece mechanic and discard the rest if it’s your favorite

All killer, no filler

[neon hearth]

The main thing I'm actually worried about overwhelming people is the implicit NPC dynamics

while they're trying to learn Lancer and also deal with the storm

which again is what I like about the scenario, just that makes it harder for newer players. And I'm fine sacrificing that if need be

[onyx fractal]

I was listening to a podcast interview between two RPG creators today and they talked about how writing a module is not just about figuring out how to get information into the GM's head, but also how to get information through the GM into the player's heads

Which was an interesting thought to me, just about how you can communicate things to the GM as well as things for the GM to use to communicate to the players. I dunno, just helped me reframe my conception of the audience a bit

When I started running Lancer, I definitely overloaded my players with custom bespoke combat rules and twists

And they responded a lot better when I went vanilla

Something I feel like I bump up against in Pilot NET from time to time is that it can be a bit of an echo chamber in terms of determining what makes the game or a given combat interesting, and I fell prey to the urge of adding twists to too many things without starting with the basics

Not that anybody liking what they like is wrong, of course. Just that I've personally found it useful to not let myself get bogged down by one specific vision of the game

[honest pawn]

Makes sense, I think that the perspective of “the game is complete on its own” is important to remember for intro adventures

(There may be cases where we may disagree with that perspective but it can be a useful lens imo)

Because to new players, they’re expecting the game to be complete on its own, after all

[onyx fractal]

For sure. For me, the main value of a module is not the new rules/mechanics, but the new situation/narrative to explore

[neon hearth]

which brings us back to "okay, but of the things that happen in a oneshot, how do you make that stand out when most of it is Mechs Shooting Other Mechs"

and you have very little flex time

[onyx fractal]

Well, as I think was stated way earlier in this thread, or maybe elsewhere: combat is a resolution mechanic

Resolving a dramatic question of tension

Two (or more) sides opposed to each other, willing to die for their cause

What draws me into a story is the conflict of ideals

The reason why your mech is shooting another mech is the real juice

IMO the real magic trick of a one-shot is getting players emotionally invested in that reason in a short amount of time

As for how to make them emotionally invested (i.e. make that stand out)? That's part of the challenge, I suppose.

A few ideas:

• Offer a great reward (respect, money, power)
• Threaten something they love (e.g. a collaboratively-created hometown, or a goofy NPC)
• Tantalize fantasy (fight a big kaiju, or re-enact a scene from your favorite anime or movie)

[honest pawn]

Yeah, and ideally do something that other folks wouldn’t easily think of

That’s the value add: Making something that the core book doesn’t provide

[fierce sedge]

Emotional investment I find comes from establishing why this particular venture is engaging right from the get-go.

Circling back to what I said earlier about people waiting too long to deliver their pitch, I personally venture more towards beginning in media res nowadays for that reason.

[fierce sedge]

And yeah also that.

Or not necessarily that others wouldn't think of, but make something that stands out as your own.

[honest pawn]

Yeah that

[onyx fractal]

In that regard, I think about this article a lot https://udan-adan.blogspot.com/2016/11/conceptual-density-or-what-are-rpg.html

[honest pawn]

This is what I had in mind when I said that yeah haha

Mostly because that extra something something is what’s gonna make your one shot pop

[onyx fractal]

Hankerin Ferinale/Runehammer is a big fan of getting to dice-rolling within, like, 60 seconds

[fierce sedge]

It's not even dice rolling inasmuch as delivering the pitch.

[honest pawn]

Right, deliver pitch in 60 seconds and then call for the dice roll

[fierce sedge]

Let's say you're hosting a grand gala; begin at the arrival at the gala and have that arrival mean something.

[onyx fractal]

Might be tougher if you're running for brand new players since there's some teaching that has to happen, but I think it's more the idea of starting close to the action than anything else. Really, I think it's more about minimizing the amount of time between the session start and the players' first meaningful decision (which doesn't necessarily have to be a dice roll)

[fierce sedge]

Rather than with the backstory of the event and everything.

[honest pawn]

“You’ve been tracking the notorious Kraven the Hunter through the Jungle of Despair for weeks, and just found a fresh trail. What do you do?”

[idle cedar]

blades in the dark mission structure also tries to put you right at the action, once you're past the big planning stuff

[onyx fractal]

That's honestly not a bad model

[idle cedar]

you were presumably doing all the boring stuff off camera

I'm trying to start at losing the first sitrep and getting scattered

would making reference cards be against lancer 3p license

[fierce sedge]

Or to take a past scenario I've messed around with "You awaken to the creaking of metal under pressure, and the dripping of water to accompany it. The walls are a steel cage, decorated with the screens of countless machines all flashing red. At the corner of the room a single cracked window can be seen, telling a short story; there is an ocean outside, and you're sinking fast into its depths".

Not the best text to evoke the mood with, but the stakes are established quick as well as implicitly why they matter to the players.

[honest pawn]

Is this against the 3rd party license? https://heliospectral.itch.io/lancer-action-reference-sheet

(The answer is “it better not be”)

But yeah like, you’re allowed to use the mechanics in your own games

[idle cedar]

i feel like it might be against the letter of the law

if I'm just copying stuff over

[honest pawn]

Make it terse then

[idle cedar]

it's probably fine but I'll ask for permission through that email

[neon hearth]

The danger with in medias res starts is that players are expected to make decisions immediately and I've seen people just struggle or grind the session to a halt asking questions

Being able to jump into the middle of a scenario and just go with it is a player skill

one not everyone has

(I've seen this just break BitD-style heists)

[onyx fractal]

What kinds of questions do you find them asking?

[neon hearth]

"what was the plan?"

"what are we trying to do here"
"what are all the obstacles we're worried about"

"are there any foes nearby?"

"what's our escape route?"

[honest pawn]

It’s fine and reasonable for folks to ask clarifying questions

I think the biggest goal is to address the MVP questions in the 60 second intro

“What’s our escape route” in BITD would immediately trigger a flashback and a roll imo

Which meets the goal of get folks to roll dice fast

I do think that at some point you’re gonna need to trust your audience, though

You can cover the MVPs but you can’t “solve” a risk-hyperaverse party with a oneshot, imo

[neon hearth]

I mean you can solve it by not putting them in the middle of a situation with minimal context

[onyx fractal]

Don't think anyone suggesting you give them minimal context

I think we're suggesting that you be efficient with the context you give them

[honest pawn]

Acatalepsy. I’m literally advocating for providing context.

As Dodgepong said, I’m advocating for it to be efficient

[fierce sedge]

There's also the fact that you're not designing for everyone. I threw together a quick example of a panicked scenario earlier with waking up on a sinking station, but I would presume that no one who hated that kind of scenario would run it.

[neon hearth]

sure, I'm all for giving context efficiently, I'm just saying I've seen it blow up spectacularly when the players end up confused because efficiently given context is, necessarily, incomplete

[honest pawn]

Then make sure the GM has the notes they need to answer those questions, I suppose

It doesn’t need to be a novel

[onyx fractal]

You can also use the questions that players ask as an insight into what they care about in the scenario, or even as opportunities for them to take actions in the scenario to learn that information

[neon hearth]

my point is that some players really react poorly to starting in medias res
and its often hard to know which players ahead of time

[honest pawn]

The 60 second intro isn’t “I’m telling you literally everything” it’s “I’m telling you enough to make a choice, even if that choice involves asking questions”

[fierce sedge]

Giving more information also doesn't mean people will memorise everything.

[onyx fractal]

"Are there any foes around?" "So, you want to look around for hostiles? What do you do to do that?"

[neon hearth]

??? I don't even know where memorizing anything comes in here

[honest pawn]

Are you proposing to solve this as the module writer? Or is this something the GM can handle? (I feel this is on the GM)

[fierce sedge]

If you're talking about my earlier comment on beginning in media res, I mean sure? That's why I say I personally like it, not that it's a universal truth.

[fierce sedge]

I'm taking it as you reading efficient to mean in a sense summarised, and that thus the other approach is to give more context/information. As such what amount of the information actually sticks seems highly pertinent to consider?

[honest pawn]

This also sounds like you’re worried about super risk-averse behavior, which is typically a learned behavior from taxing experiences in other TTRPGs. So I think it’s worth asking oneself if this is being designed for players who are new to TTRPGs, or players just new to Lancer (but learned risk averse behavior from a different elfgame)

[idle cedar]

had a new player play safe after taking half a structure as damage yesterday

[neon hearth]

My experience has been you have both the risk averse, often learned from other TTRPGs, but also "I feel like I need to understand what it is going on better to play a character who presumably understands whats going on".

[neon hearth]

I don't think it's solveable! My point was that its just a danger you kind of accept.

[fierce sedge]

Yeah not too uncommon of a behaviour, and part of intros I find is showing that it's okay to take damage.

[honest pawn]

Alright, then you give the GM the bulleted list after their intro and tell them to use that

[idle cedar]

i think being risk averse being comes with not assessing risk properly (like there was no real danger there, but perceived risk is low hp=danger)

[honest pawn]

Okay sure, then let’s accept it and move on haha

[fierce sedge]

I'm honestly not even sure what's being discussed anymore.

[fierce sedge]

Yeah

[neon hearth]

Someone said they liked in medias res
I also like in medias res
its just also been responsible for some of the most catastrophic player malfunctions I've seen
so its worth considering if thats worth it

[onyx fractal]

I actually think that packing in a lot of official Lancer lore can be detrimental sometimes. E.g. if you say "you're Union DOJ", players will have lots of questions, but if you just say "You're a merc team for hire" then people are more likely able to grok that

[fierce sedge]

On this I agree. It's something I actually really liked about Shadow of the Wolf's approach.

Arguably because it mirrors my own by personifying the tensions that exists and turning it into more of a character drama rather than abstract terms.

[idle cedar]

you can be part of an official military and still not know what's going on like, two levels up

sometimes even one level up, or cursedly, one level down

i think people having questions is fine but also i don't think every question needs to be given an answer, if it's like a worldbuilding question

[fierce sedge]

Over the years that I've been running one-shots for folk of all different kinds, there were two sessions I've considered to be failures. The first was due to scheduling on my end, with it just going over time by a fair margin due to me not doing a proper job of focusing it. Subsequently I changed it up and it's been for the better.

The second however was overall fine except for the end, a short and snappy section that hadn't ever been an issue up til that point nor since, but where in this one instance the folk there just wanted to do too many different things despite being told they get to do one thing. It killed the tempo and the scene, and tbh the one lesson I took from it was just to put my foot down there.

Doesn't mean this covers all scenarios, and I hope no one takes it that way, but to an extent it's good to recognise what questions are fruitful and when you're just going in circles.

[onyx fractal]

If I were to run Hell or High Water as a one-shot, this is how I would prep and run the scenario:

• Roll or pick 2-3 travel events that the PCs will encounter (e.g., start with the bridge being knocked out. This will be the first challenge the PCs have to deal with)
• Pare down the lore summary for my table thusly:
  • Setting: Teporberge, capital city on a lush planet under threat from an incoming apocalyptic storm
  • City engineers scrambling to build a shield emitter to save the city, but missing critical parts
  • Some weirdos in the city think the storm is good an want to see the city destroyed by the storm
  • PCs are muscle hired to escort a delivery of critical shield parts to the city center

Then I'd probably do an intro like this:

"We begin on a planet engulfed in a torrential thunderstorm. The 3/4/5 of you are already in your mechs, and as the rain batters on your cockpit windows, you look out and see, in the distance, silhouetted by flashes of lighting, a tremendous city. You know three things: 1) That city in the distance is this planet's capital city, Teporberge, and if this storm continues to worsen, the city and all its inhabitants will be eviscerated. 2) You have in your possession some very important cargo: critical equipment that can be used for setting up a shield emitter that would save the city from the worst of this storm. 3) There have been rumblings in the city of an apocalypse cult that would love nothing more than to see the city destroyed by the storm.

You have been hired to safely transport this critical equipment to the city center so that the shield emitter can be completed before the storm becomes too powerful.

Players, can you describe your characters/mechs, and what roles you're taking as you transports these goods along the abandoned highway leading towards the city?

<let players introduce>

Alright, as you proceed down the highway, you spot a crumpled mass of metal blocking your way. As you approach, you realize this metal mass used to be a bridge, which has been destroyed by the raging rapids that have emerged from below from the torrential rain. What do you do?"

That's about as detailed as I'd go, most likely

[neon hearth]

At the table, would you just make all the NPCs Delugist cultists?

[onyx fractal]

For a one-shot, I'd make the At The Gates enemies Delugists probably, yeah

That would be the only combat. Success means the PCs deliver the shield parts

[neon hearth]

I might add something like that to the GM advice for "how to run a oneshot with this"

though my goal was that you could possibly make it through the whole scenario, at least with players who are on the ball.

[fierce sedge]

Nothing to add; this all seems pretty great. Like the only things I'd consciously run differently would potentially prep all travel options even if only a few are chosen, but that's with the acknowledgement that I think your method is better here and I'd consciously be doing this because I think it's fun.

[onyx fractal]

I'd have to spend time thinking about all the scenarios to figure out exactly what the challenge/threat is with them, but yeah you could do that by rolling

[fierce sedge]

Also reminded of my bad habit that I oft don't always give information in a point by point form lol. It's more that a habit from some games sneaks into others where it doesn't always work as well

[onyx fractal]

The reason I'm hedging is because I could see particularly enthusiastic players taking a lot of time with the narrative scenes and I'd like a ripcord to just say "okay you make it to the city gates and are attacked"

For the sake of pacing

[fierce sedge]

Yeah no, rolling works, I just prefer hand-crafted too, to be more mentally prepared.

[onyx fractal]

Sure, you could also pick events that might flow better narratively. Like, maybe some events make sense closer to the city

[neon hearth]

If I wasn't rolling, I'd set up attack by Delugists to be the last one as players approach the city.

[onyx fractal]

Sure, that could be the combat

[neon hearth]

No, I mean as a narrative encounter -

[onyx fractal]

Oh

[neon hearth]

- have an IED or something go off, some infantry try to jack the convoy or something.

And then when they get to the gates of the city, they're primed to think of the Reliance Brigade as just more Delugists

[onyx fractal]

Gotcha

[neon hearth]

(and then they start talking and its clear they aren't)

[onyx fractal]

See, I would probably save the words "Reliance Brigade" and "Delugists" as things that NPCs tell the players

[neon hearth]

Yep!

[onyx fractal]

Like, maybe the PCs encounter the evacuees and that's when they first encounter those terms

[neon hearth]

Yeah that's how I'd do it

[onyx fractal]

So, players are the ones asking "who are such and such?"

[neon hearth]

thats actually some more good stuff to put in the GM advice

like one encounter I envisioned, the "battle between factions ahead", was a way to introduce the idea that there's still fighting going on between various factions

especially since its not clear at first who is shooting who and who might be on your side (if anyone)

I added Amadeus Revacha to be someone who can explain shit

[onyx fractal]

I think I like the bridge as the first encounter because it gives the players a chance to think in a problem-solving way using common knowledge and familiarizing themselves with their gear and character sheets, without the pressure of a lot of roleplaying with NPCs. It's a nice warm-up and sets the tone well

[neon hearth]

There was a fourth NPC that was a refugee leader but I couldn't find a way to fit them in

[onyx fractal]

Heh, my approach with NPCs is usually less "How do I fit in more NPCs" and more "How do I collapse multiple NPCs into a single NPC?

[neon hearth]

Well, that's what I kind of ended up doing

the refugee leader was originally Captain Kastvark's brother

[onyx fractal]

Word

Anyway, I don't know if that's helpful, but it's an example of the sort of thing I mean regarding providing efficient context and getting to the action quickly

Players might have additional questions ("Where did we get this gear from?" "Are there other people in our convoy?" "How far away from the city are we?" "How long do we have until the storm hits?") But those can all be answered easily enough IMO

And tells me that the players are interested in the story and care about what happens

[neon hearth]

Yeah, in a longer form I might spell some of this out

but in a trifold, you sort of have to trust the GM

[idle cedar]

thinking about like, a clock or something that sets the goal of the upcoming sitrep

so maybe you have to do a gauntlet in 8 clock, but you can get reserves at the cost of 1 segment

you can get 4 reserves and 4 rounds, or mix and match

could also be like a control where enemy starts with more points maybe

actually how should i do it if i go for control? shorter time alone isn't really a downside
maybe enemy gets +1 victory point and you lose a round?

so you need to fight up to 4 point lead in 4 rounds, if you're super greedy

[tepid pecan]

id probably keep control simple

and inflate time via enemy reinforcements and the like

one thing that we do often with oneshots is that "budget is at my whim" if i want more npcs i just throw them in there

i'll drop in the slow ones closer beyond regular boundaries that faster npc's might deploy from if there's not enough npc's around the players/able to interact with them meaningfully in one round, etc, unless i am deliberately choosing something with set up or the players clearly intended to barricade approaches so as to slow down the opfor, etc.

i probably think that the design vision that we'll be using would be to just replicate what has already worked for our oneshots

-no reserves you either get what you get or you get nothing, this is just extra time and theres no need to massively infate time by adding decisions and dice rolling to the part of the oneshot that isn't combat or actually doing something
-Assuming that part of the oneshot buy in is that players will just accept their narrative circumstances. they will simply accept and choose from the presented initial set up scenarios.
-A pre-shot Recruiting blurb that crams all the expectation and the stakes into a short little paragraph or two you use to read out that should cover like, most, if not all of it,
-A focus on evocative and simple, heavily on-rails story and statement.
-We basicalyl don't really use mystery, in our perspectives, a one shot is "theres this big historical moment that these characters are doing and im throwing you in face first into this to experience this shit happening,"
-A lot of narrative expediting/reframing (things that many gms might be tempted to ask for skill triggers or challenges or clocks or stuff for, this just slows things down, instead, the fact of the matter is, professionals will be good at their jobs, and good planning will win, imo gms in all games use dice too much out of reflex and we think its good to break the habit. )
-more thoughts and rambling as we think of them later

[honest pawn]

Relevant for folks doing layout here: https://ci.itch.io/all-fonts-pack

[hollow turtle]

Yall

This is a steal

I cannot stress how amazing this deal is

Its kinda obvious given The discount but for full commerical use its wild

[honest pawn]

Triple check the license to make sure the terms are good for y’all, of course

But I’m guessing it’ll work for most projects in this jam

[onyx fractal]

yoink

Reasonably happy with how my typst template is turning out. I'm still kinda of torn between traditional two-column vs single main column + sidebar, currently leaning towards the latter for simplicity wih A5

e.g.

Playing with Staatliches as a H1 font, wasn't loving Orbitron

here would be a traditional 2-column spread

Looking at these side by side, the 3/1 sidebar feels a lot more like the right answer

[honest pawn]

I dig the 3/1 sidebar, good visual interest

[onyx fractal]

It's taking a lot from the Classic Explorer Template but... I mean, Clayton knows what he's doing

I just don't know what, if anything, to put in the upper left corner

[honest pawn]

Hm

You know the red triangles in the CRB

[onyx fractal]

Classic Explorer uses roman numerals, the purpose of which I'm not 100% certain of

[honest pawn]

Could do an inverted version maybe

[onyx fractal]

(also, it always puts the sidebar on the left, which I am mixed on)

[honest pawn]

Looks like section header stuff

[onyx fractal]

Classic Explorer also uses baselines which I am not going to attempt to do in Typst

Not ever Butterick cares that much about baseline grids https://practicaltypography.com/grids.html

[onyx fractal]

The other weirdness here is putting justified text next to left-aligned text, which I don't hate?

I expected to not like it but I think I like double-left-aligned less

[honest pawn]

I’d try right aligned in the left half imo

But that’s me

[onyx fractal]

right-aligned in the left half? interesting...

oh i forgot to disable justify

[honest pawn]

Yeah, except with Justify on for the Body

So it looks nicer on the right half of the spread

That’s what I’d try at least, never said I had actual taste lol

[onyx fractal]

ah

I don't hate it, though I think I still prefer left-justify

Might change as i start adding actual content

Some pages might still use 2-column if I don't have any worthwhile sidebar text

Or go full width

We'll see

[left mirage]

Are most folks going with an intro to lancer for their modules?

[fierce sedge]

I believe it's the most commonly discussed one, and what seems like is presumed by many, but at least I myself and Dthalia aren't.

[neon hearth]

I mean, Lancer like
is very much designed to be played in more than one sitting

so if you're doing a one-shot, one of the big reasons is "people are on the fence about doing Lancer, so you're doing a oneshot to get them familiar with the system and introduce some stuff with no commitment to do more"

the other reason to play Lancer in one sitting is if you don't care about the narrative stuff (or do the narrative stuff outside of session time) and just want to get straight to mechs shooting each other
which you can do with a smooth enough VTT setup and players who are on the ball
see, Interpoint, Hearth, etc
but also those have much less of a use case for needing a 'module' since what they want is reusable opfors and maps

[fierce sedge]

But I also just want to do stuff that tries out things I want to see more of.

[neon hearth]

so intro games are not the only thing you can do with a one-shot module, but like, its a major use case

[hollow turtle]

After looking at the themes I am confident I am going to be making an LL12 one shot no matter which wins

[neon hearth]

now, packaging "highly reusable opfor and a few maps, suitable for reuse, plus a bunch of scenarios" might be interesting

[hollow turtle]

I feel experienced enough with Lancer that that niche is the one I could write for on a crunch

[neon hearth]

but also the kind of person who is running a big reusable lancer thing is like
"making the opfor" is probably one of the fun parts?

[idle cedar]

oh I can't add a poll, was gonna do an unofficial poll to ask what people are doing for their modules

I am def making it for new players first and experienced player second

[hollow turtle]

you could do a straw poll or something

or ask the mods too

[idle cedar]

too much mental effort

[left mirage]

Ty for the explanation, the question was

Are most folks going with an intro for their modules?
bc im trying to read the room here

[left mirage]

discord had polls for a hot minute I swear

[honest pawn]

they do, but they may not have permissions to make one in here

[neon hearth]

https://strawpoll.com/BDyNzkAr4yR

blam

[honest pawn]

What do you mean by "intro for their campaigns" like something intended to kick off a larger campaign/setting or something else?

[neon hearth]

I think they meant "module"? At least that's how I read it

[honest pawn]

because you can have an "introduction to lancer" that isn't "introduction to Backwater Station in the Long Rim"

so yeah I wanted to hear their clarification

[neon hearth]

As in, is the module you are making an introduction to Lancer

[honest pawn]

right, that's not how I parsed it, hence why I asked Rube for clarity

[neon hearth]

anyway we have 3 votes now
but if we want a bigger sample, Suji can post that link somewhere or something like that

[left mirage]

intro to lancer yes!

[idle cedar]

you can put it in the itch forum or reddit if you want

I don't actually have a ton of announcement power

well technically I have access to #lancer-news but I'm not abusing it for this lmao

[left mirage]

edited for clarity, Im much too scatterbrained today

I know I'm avoiding an intro to lancer whichever theme gets picked. I want that mid-campaign meat

[fierce sedge]

Yeah I don't think that's appropriate for this lol.

[left mirage]

Might consider a handout for this sort of trouble, if nothing else it gives the referee a better foundation to improvise details. If all or even just some player questions are answered by the handout, you've saved that much time as well

[onyx fractal]

Eh, those details can be in the pamphlet or improvised

IMO the point isn't to anticipate everything the players might ask, it's to give the GM the material they need to keep the conversation moving

[left mirage]

I must still be scatterbrained and phrasing things poorly! I thought I mentioned a handout for that reason

[onyx fractal]

I understand what you meant, I personally don't think it's worth it

[hollow turtle]

testin it out

making sure I know how it works, what looks okay and what doesn't

Cima is also defintiely a Font of all time

(Its the font used in The Test title there)

[left mirage]

this fucks

[idle cedar]

wow my name on there huh

[hollow turtle]

correct

you host a jam and suddenly boom, ur name is on things

[idle cedar]

hell yeah, microcelebrity status

[hollow turtle]

I was just about to ask too, is that a good attribution or would you prefer a different name

[idle cedar]

it's my internet name

should probably have a last name but i didn't pick one so that's fine

Hopefully nobody else chooses the same name and hosts a jam to steal my glory

(mostly joking)

[hollow turtle]

o7

[idle cedar]

I will officially say on record though: you don't need to credit me or the jam

[hollow turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/dont-tell-me-what-to-do-amy-poehler-gif-8062934

Though on a slightly more serious note since this the first time I'm ever jamming and probably putting out something? I really want to

[idle cedar]

you can

i just don't wanna tell people to do it

but I'm not gonna like, stop you

[hollow turtle]

I understand, just explaining the thought process

its part of the process that's gonna make it and much like how I wanna give Lancer a 'special thanks' shout out even though the Powered by lancer and the text bit is probably enough...

the jam (and you) deserve it too!

(least from meeee)

[neon hearth]

Eeeeeeeehhhh PeaPu!

[hollow turtle]

Yep! I'm a commerical sub to their patreon so the maps I make are gonna all their assets

[neon hearth]

hell yeah

[final maple]

I haven't been thinking of my plans as being an intro, it's likely to be A Mission which could be run on its own or slotted in to a campaign. Perhaps it could function as an intro, though it would be a weird one.

[hollow turtle]

Then that’d probably be a no from you

The question is supposed to be ‘is this gonna be ‘I need to teach these people how to play Lancer’ one shot or not’

[neon hearth]

yep!

looks like fewer people than I thought, thought still pretty solid amount (assuming sample vaguely representative, which you shouldn't but on the other hand )

[idle cedar]

huh almost 50/50? that is not what i expected

[neon hearth]

this is why we gather data!

[ornate mist]

Pretty bias data with small sample size

It only collect from people who are active in this thread.

[idle cedar]

i was expecting like 90% of people to make intro stuff haha so I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, even with a biased sample

[onyx fractal]

Here's the real question

Do I sell physical versions of this on Lulu

[idle cedar]

on what

[onyx fractal]

Lulu is basically a POD store

[idle cedar]

pod is print on demand?

[onyx fractal]

https://www.lulu.com/

Yes

Wanna buck the trend of nobody ever selling physical Lancer product

And also continue my crusade to promote running Lancer IRL

[neon hearth]

Someone did at PAXU! I saw them!

(I couldn't join because I'd already signed up for Mage)

[humble dome]

Is there an expectation that modules have the same formatting and assets as the official Lancer rulebooks?

[neon hearth]

nope

that said if you want to do that there's template floating around for it

[final maple]

I am fully planning on not at all imitating the official formatting (but then, I'm a graphic design dweeb).

(A graphic design dweeb with a 3/4 finished custom page format for NPCs.)

[neon hearth]

unless one of my graphic design friends joins me, I probably will

it's associated with quality/effort and is better than anything I would come up with on my own

[delicate geode]

Some people want to fill that expectation, and that's okay. It's a cool visual look.

Others want to just make their stuff look good, in their own personal way. That, too, is okay.

Some of us dgaf and would hastily write our entire thing on paper napkins after a wild night in Namba, if inspiration strikes right there and then while waiting for the first train home inside a karaoke room at 3 AM.

[idle cedar]

this channel is gonna get pretty busy when the jam starts huh

or the entire #1056034709555138610, maybe

[ornate mist]

there gonna be double the amount thread, one for each oneshot!!!!

[idle cedar]

ah geez

[idle cedar]

i would love to see some zine look
lancer feels punk and deserves some more punk aesthetic stuff

[fierce sedge]

We'll see. I suspect it'll be decently more active, but not by an inordinate amount.

Chances are that the folk who are active now will also be the folk who are active then.

[honest pawn]

Hell yeah looking forward to seeing this then

I’ll say that even as a person who has made a Lancer layout template, I hope that there are folks comfy enough with their layout skills to try their own style of layout instead

[sweet gale]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[onyx fractal]

Some great posts on accessibility in design

https://www.explorersdesign.com/accessibility-design/
https://www.explorersdesign.com/tabletop-accessibility-checklist/

[honest pawn]

Accessibility in games is important! There’s a reason I have a screen-reader friendly version of my adventures

[onyx fractal]

Neat! Typst supports image alt text

[onyx fractal]

For those of you out there anxious about comparing your submission to others:

[idle cedar]

there's a lot of "nice to have" features but if you can't do it, you don't have to do it
focus on the objective (complete the module)

[neon hearth]

New Objective: Survive

[ornate mist]

what layout software do you guy prefer? I have been keeping my everything on a word.doc for too long

[hollow turtle]

Well I'm playing round with Affinity which is slick and fun but it does cost money

Also not me wanting to shake the timer to make it go faster (this is not how time works)

[red stratus]

I can tell you from experience, don't use Scribus. It seems ideal, for a free program, but there's a lot of... frustrations. It might be less of an issue with a smaller project, but I was almost tearing my hair out in frustration by the end of Iridia.

(I have no good advice, just advice on what's not good.)

[onyx fractal]

To the surprise of no one, I have been using Typst. If I weren't using that, though, I'd probably be learning Affinity

[idle cedar]

what?? what is typst???

[neon hearth]

I got typst running but the preview system in vscode is awfully finnicky

I feel like I'm missing something in terms of just like
having a button to restart the typst service?

feels like that should be a button and yet

[onyx fractal]

Interesting, what issues are you having with it? Are you using Tinymist?

Also, if you use typst watch or enable "export on save" in the Tinymist settings, you can preview in a PDF viewer (assuming your PDF viewer updates when the source updates)

I do both, especailly since it's easier to check spreads in a PDF viewer

[neon hearth]

I'm using Tinymist in VSCode on windows. I was messing with fonts and wanted to restart the preview service so I could see changes, and the only way I could figure to do it was just exiting VScode

[south fern]

ctrl + shift + p => "Reload Window" is a faster way to "restart" vscode. but i dont think you need to to refresh the preview

[onyx fractal]

If you install new fonts you do have to restart vs code

[idle cedar]

how's the web version

[onyx fractal]

No idea

[onyx fractal]

There's also a Typst restart server command

I don't know if that fixes font issues

[fierce sedge]

I was trying to find a completely different post, but came across this: https://www.failuretolerated.com/eleven-questions-about-layout-in-rpgs

[honest pawn]

Ayyy layout blogpost from the guy behind Mothership and its immaculate layouts? Hell yeah

[honest pawn]

“I started on layout from the beginning because it’s fun for me and I feel like I’m really working on the thing itself.”
I feel seen, Sean McCoy

[onyx fractal]

Hell yeah

[neon hearth]

I am not a layout person
which like
is honestly kinda unfortunate for my project of making RPGs
but doing layout just doesn't grab me the way making narrative stuff or mechanics does
despite it being a much more critical factor in a lot of ways

[onyx fractal]

I envy the people who can do it all

There are some people out there who can do writing, layout, art, editing, and cartography

And business/marketing

It's not fair

[honest pawn]

This is why teams exist lol

[ornate mist]

Well, so the saying goes, Jack of All Trade, Master of None...

Hey. When attaching map files to the module? Should I just upload them all together in a googledrive or mega? Do I need to link it in the pdf itself?

[idle cedar]

writing, mechanics, art, layout
only the avatar, master of all four elements...

(I'm sure there's more that i missed)

[left mirage]

i would recommend keeping them on the pdf if possible, providing a link in whatever package they download from (possibly both)

itch.io will let you upload multiple files as part of a project so that shouldnt be an issue at all

[neon hearth]

the element of spirit: management

[honest pawn]

Yeah no itch can host your maps or any other digital files, so put them on itch with the rest of your project. A separate site link will just be more hassle for your customers

[ornate mist]

oh, thx, I have never put anything on itch before in my life XD

and I intend to put it out for free

[honest pawn]

I recommend setting up a draft project page there, just to get used to it and make sure you have the ability to ahead of time

If you plan on making any money on it (even PWYW) you’ll also want to set up your tax information now

[ornate mist]

sheeze, I will need to check on my country law on this

[spare jolt]

...american tax information? As not everyone here is american.

[honest pawn]

I don’t know how it is for non americans, but itch is an American company so there’s probably some weird hoop to jump through

[spare jolt]

...I remember dealing with the IRS was a hellish process for Liminal Space.

It took me three weeks for them to accept 'America and Australia have a Tax Treaty, if I pay Australian tax on this income, I don't also pay American'. :S

I'm going to need to look up how this works for Itch.

[honest pawn]

https://itch.io/docs/creators/payments#tax-interview

[spare jolt]

...okay, this doesn't look too bad if you've got a tax treaty

Okay, yeah. It won't be fun but it's pretty dealable it looks if you're in Yankieland or somewhere that has a Tax Treaty with them.

[neon hearth]

please help I am slowly talking myself into doing this

[onyx fractal]

Is this your interpretation of the Two Worlds theme

Or the Crime theme?

Maybe the Reclamation theme

[honest pawn]

(I can’t see “Two Worlds” without thinking about the infamous 2007 Xbox 360 game)

[onyx fractal]

Two Worlds
One Family

inb4 tarzan module

[idle cedar]

family would have been a good theme too

[onyx fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/the-power-is-yours-power-yours-gif-12424934

[idle cedar]

not gonna post a vote and ignore it just a few days before it closes 😆

[onyx fractal]

yeah but... u could tho