Deadlock

[ivory reef]

I think it's okay to engage with games knowing you are handicapping yourself in particular ways and that just means you have to be okay with slower climbs or more unfair situations

and if people ask me for the most actionable thing they can do to immediately take the limiters off themselves in team games it's to stop treating team games like they're not team games

cause when you do you start saying stuff like... this

like this is a solo queue person thing to say. in a team every hero is insanely good and well balanced because you just create space for your carry or whatever

in solo everyone wants to be the carry

[autumn field]

I once played with a dymano who commed a lot and liked teamplay

[cosmic cypress]

I'm gonna be honest winged, I kinda wish you just hadn't responded to me at all

[ivory reef]

alright, fair enough

[autumn field]

That was the first time I was having fun the entire match and just enjoying the whole game

[vivid nimbus]

I think it tries to match stack vs stack but I'm not sure, when I'm in a 6-stack the other team usually feels more coordinated too

[ivory reef]

it does try yeah

but stacks are also just better coordinated so as you get higher in mmr you run into more stacks

there's less room to just be a godlike solo

[rich grove]

anecdotally the 5 stack queues also explode queue time

[vast sandal]

lmfao

[rich grove]

which would make sense if it's trying to find 5+1 vs 5+1

[vast sandal]

5 stack purgatory...

[slender falcon]

Maybe I should stack with someone and play the normal game instead of queueing nothing but solo street brawl

[rich grove]

nobody is forcing you to play other game modes

[slender falcon]

I know, but also I want to play standard and get better at it

[vast sandal]

standard is fun.

[slender falcon]

I think Street Brawl is frying my brain and I mean this only half as a joke

[vast sandal]

I find Street Brawl irritating because I just. want to use the build. I know how to play the game, RNGesus unbind my hands and let me cook.

[vivid nimbus]

Also we know that the devs are fiddling with MM constantly, what we don't know well is whether rank distributions shift up and down in this process

But it's very possible that sometimes this month's arcanist is last month's alchemist, or vice versa

[slender falcon]

I like street brawl because I played nothing but roguelikes for a full 1.5 years

[vivid nimbus]

But we know it does happen sometimes, top 100 in NA used to go down to e4 but now it's like half of e6

Without corresponding shifts in playercount

[vast sandal]

my take on solo queue vs stacking is simple

solo queue Deadlock and stack Deadlock are different video games

I've played both, I know which one I prefer personally (it's stack Deadlock), but I don't think solo queue Deadlock is not a valid choice

your mileage WILL vary when you play the other game though

[ivory reef]

yeah I can work on the way I phrased that, like, I'm not making moral judgements on the ways people engage with games as long as they're not being toxic at people

I just think there's a consistent... what's the word I'm looking for

[vast sandal]

it is the fucking wild west in there to be clear

[ivory reef]

there's a blind spot

there's a blind spot in team games where many people approach the games entirely as solo games and there are huge communities of people like them and also even coaches who coach them as solo gamers and stuff and the game is just not designed or balanced for the way they play

[vast sandal]

you're voluntarily forgoing some measures of sanity, consistency, and sense in order to play a team game with raw random online choice of teammates

[ivory reef]

and I feel like I need to put more effort into shining a light on that cause nobody else does

like it's weird to me that I can look up a deathy coaching video and deathy will be telling the player in question to pick heroes who are independent and can snowball

it's an entirely different world that handicaps the way you approach stuff like these team games

[autumn field]

Overwatch is a prime example of this

[vast sandal]

the MOBA online soloqueue approach is stepping into a very different universe than the MOBA stack queue

but yeah like, I think choosing to enter the solo queue and changing your mindset to fit that reality where you pick Seven and you focus on being the biggest singular game-changing force for your team is completely valid as long as your choices are being made with the prior that you're doing this because it's how you win more games in solo queue Deadlock

[rich grove]

p much

[vast sandal]

that outlook is distorted relative to the premade stack gaming outlook but the opposite is true as well

[rich grove]

I also queue certain characters with NA ping under the knowledge I am incapable of M1 carry under the weight of 200ms ping

[vast sandal]

saying things like "well I'm gonna play Doorman and tell my team to use the doors and solo kill objectives while my team pushes sidelanes" is insane if you are solo queueing

[jovial jay]

Practical question for ya SUki. Given that 3/3/3 rule exists, particularly for solo queue players. Do you have any losses that

1. you can say for certain you were probably the dead weight
2. whose replays and match IDs you can give?

I know I need to do a lot better at asking other people to review how I play, because I'm ritualist to emissary, sometimes alchemist, and very new at MOBAs overall, so I'd bet anyone with more familiarity in the game could help you

[vivid nimbus]

Also TBF, once you hit eternus the matchmaking doesn't let you queue as anything bigger than duo

[ivory reef]

really? damn

[vivid nimbus]

The solo-team dichotomy of deadlock is weird

[ivory reef]

is there anywhere I can look at the rules

[vivid nimbus]

IDK I've just seem streamers mention it

[finite patrol]

that doesnt sound true

[rich grove]

I know eternus forces you to max prio two characters

[ivory reef]

that does strike me as like. I'm not gonna say insane but if it's true maybe I should stop playing deadlock

because then deadlock isn't for me I dunno

[rich grove]

I mean wasn't there the same restriction on overwatch

[finite patrol]

I know ive seen Deathy mention that he only ever duo queues because more than that just annihilates matchmaking at his skill level

[jovial jay]

Also there was a recent change for Eternus players that two heroes must be rated high periority

Not sure if that's permanent or to force more heroes into play for data or what

but its there as of this week

[vivid nimbus]

I might be wrong and it might just be that large stacks are impossible to find games for at high rank

[rich grove]

probably also matchmaking time

[ivory reef]

https://i.redd.it/kch80jree52h1.png

you can't one trick yeah

[slender falcon]

that was what I was assuming from what was said

[merry verge]

Most streamers seem to encounter other streamers in the wild, Eternus does not seem a deeeeep pool

[rich grove]

i think ranked is also just a fundamentally different experience from some kind of pure competitive ideal and at the point where you have 6stacks of top500 players fighting each other, you probably should just scrim instead

[ivory reef]

yeah absolutely

related note: I'm mad they took away the ability to rank queue captain's mode in dota

you have to do the weekly tournaments

[vivid nimbus]

Dang

[ivory reef]

it's worth noting 'all pick' is like a tiny simultaneous captain's mode now

so it's not... the worst... but I'm still mad

[jovial jay]

its probably both. high end players are good enough at exploting weaknesses like uncoordinated teams so that partied teams would win even against other high elo players a lot, and because that pool is low as is, you'd have to match the stack.

So better to nip that in the bud

[rich grove]

psychologically I also think it is probably true that people who grind ranked for e-points and people who want to be the best team players are also wildly different psychological profiles, a lot of the time

obviously not two 100% distinct buckets

[finite patrol]

buckets you say

[rich grove]

but there's a reason "pub star" is a term in cs

[finite patrol]

puts u in the 3rd dash bucket

[rich grove]

not every grinder is topson

[vivid nimbus]

@magic summit Hey, do you have a max party size at eternus? We weren't sure if large stacks were possible or if eternus players were limited to solo/duo queue

[rich grove]

much more likely they are parker

[magic summit]

No

[vivid nimbus]

Gotcha, TY

[magic summit]

There used to be

[vivid nimbus]

Ahhh

That would probably explain how I got it wrong then

[magic summit]

I think maybe if you are all eternus there are limitations but im the only eternus I know

[rich grove]

in fairness it's also not a change that impacts 99% of users in this channel

so like

not high on the mental stack

[vivid nimbus]

Oh I agree, but Ashley did not like the idea of such a limit existing at all, so I wanted some certainty on it

[magic summit]

I also did purposefully drop out of eternus so that I am not forced to do multiple prio heroes

Cause if you are queued with anyone it goes from 2 to 3 you need to have highest prio

And that blows

[rich grove]

please gibe draft papa yoshi

😭

[jovial jay]

Hey, its my first moba, I can maybe make it someday! (My ass is not making it to eternus, I'll take archon if I can get it)

[whole moon]

learning how geist's bombs work and her 3 is making my brain expand

[lavish grove]

Question, why does this website show a different rank then my actual rank in game? How does it calculate its estimated rank compared to my actual rank?

[rich grove]

the api functionality got hit over the head with a brick

the tracking sites can be pretty out of sync

[lavish grove]

Ah

Is it more or less accurate to my average skill level?

[rich grove]

no clue

[finite patrol]

its all guess

[lavish grove]

Damn

[finite patrol]

any ranking system is functionally just trying to guess your skill rating on any given day. but since deadlock is in a semi open alpha and they keep messing with matchmaking / mmr and the api for rank is kinda fucked the guesses are guessier than usual

big guess wants you to have an approximate idea of your skill level

[autumn field]

99% of ranking systems are just "if you win more we move your rank up until you win half the time"

and it usually works enough

[late hare]

Having a weird time on Vindicta. I definitely wouldn’t say I’m good with her (my actual ability to track shots is poor), but I’m still able to go relatively even? But that also doesn’t feel like it’s doing much, probably because she wants more picks than I can reliably feed her

She doesn’t clear waves that quickly even in late game, so having to do side lanes feels particularly bad, too

[rich grove]

the current gameplan for vindicta is to roam for picks with ult asap to build your stacks, then eventually transition into gun with a side of spirit to buff your flight damage and kill people that way

if you can't get the cleanups reliably it's gonna be pretty rough

snipe itself becomes less and less relevant as time goes on, while spending time in the air becomes more and more dangerous as people buy knockdown

then eventually curse phantom strike etc

[jovial jay]

^
Mid to late game, you act as overwatch for teamfights - you can and should call who you're raining fire on, and ask people to call out low HP picks so you can get shots. Long as you're going Even, by end game you're going to be a glass cannon

Tanky, no, capable of absolutely shredding people caught out, yes

[late hare]

I’ll make a note to roam more with her

[autumn field]

so paradox is so fucking funny in 1v1s

i have clips where ill just appear and fucking explode someone in 0.2 seconds with 0 reactability

granted, they were 20k behind but the way i play is entirely focused on getting as big of a soul lead as possible then siphoning that lead into shredding enemies faster than they can outskill me

i cant tell what the fuck happened to instantly implode them

also my build, i really need to put more green prio on it cuz i died to torment pulse

probably infuser given how nuclear i am

Also apparently theres this thing where people buy rico as soon as possible

How true is this strat

[jovial jay]

a little more character dependent than the meme implies but true.

also urn is the same bell curve

math wise the urn if delivered is worth a minimum of 8k souls, one statue buff alive for the entire team, and the deliverer gets a bonus on top of that.

a walker is 4k souls

if you want to know how to lose a game it's by not trying to take or contest urns

ricochet meanwhile despite being expensive is also absurdly valuable on carry characters not named seven because if you can get it, that's a tool that lets you farm the entire game

egg into Ricochet into farm is something I should try doing more on characters like seven/wraith

[autumn field]

I thought seven would buy rico capacitor

Or even just tesla

Also what's considered "mid" and "late"

Also i dont know why but M&K counters me so fucking hard even without ult

[vivid nimbus]

And you can try and push walkers between urns. You cannot do the next urn until it spawns

[late hare]

think I need to learn my lesson about tankbop as well

feels like I never win when I try to build that way

[frail jasper]

I haven't been playing recently but I had a lot of success with McGinnis gun build, just play lane kinda safe and get Ricochet first big item then SHOVE DAT FUKKIN LANE.

Then all the gun cancer items like Toxic Bullets/Inhibitor/Silencer and just hold M1 in the enemy direction to win team fights

[autumn field]

got a question

so imma spirit para main

and... how do i win lane?

like, maybe i need someone to shadow me

but i dont know how im supposed to play to be able to win early on

[somber creek]

Well you would presumably try to shove lanes with your grenade, poke with gun, and try and sustain with your wall

[whole moon]

i will say on mina richochet is Gorgeous

[somber creek]

Mina and Mirage both love it

[whole moon]

thank you yes i will just give this whole teamfight toxic and love bites at the same time omnomnomnom

[somber creek]

Ironically I dont find it that useful on Mina

I usually build her for ults and rakes

(My aim is bad)

[whole moon]

my aim is bad that's why i go for richochet bc i can just hit Anybody, Wildly Spraying, and Get More Bats

press 2 for more bullets. keep spraying and praying. be so annoying they come close nough to rake

[rich grove]

PUBGEM ALERT

entire team had crazy on point comms and fight planning

delightful paradox game

[autumn field]

i saw you paradoxing

btw are you a gun or spirit paradox?

[rich grove]

gun but it's not a particularly firm 'preference'

by dint of buying some variation of slowing hex, silence wave and curse almost every game i end up with enough spirit

[magic summit]

Saw talk on the tracking websites posted earlier today so will note that no tracking website is official, all are working off of manual user submitted data for the most part so it just doesn't have most your games, and the rank it gives you in the website is based off its own determination based just off your personal stats in a given game

[rich grove]

arguably i end up as either greendox or fully egalitarian a good amount of the time

i buy bkb a lot these days

[magic summit]

Compared to the rating system in the actual game where you might see people shift up and down in large swaths but that is just a population adjustment and it is mostly just going off "did you win or not"

Word from the lead dev himself.

[vivid nimbus]

And there's anecdotal evidence that some of the "not calibrated very well" was detecting support players as boosted b/c they have noticeably worse per-game stats than others of their rank (who aren't playing support)

[rich grove]

there's a world where i go reactive -> indom these games but mina fucking obliterates you and your linken's

[vivid nimbus]

Which is hopefully fixed now

[rich grove]

that and glorp stone

all hail glorp

fights are so often unplayable and escapes are 100% unmakeable without this broken ass crutch item, yoshi please never nerf it

[magic summit]

I think a lot of people can get to a high rank in this game even if they lack great motor skills if they are willing to adjust their playstyle to what works or not, pay attention to the map enough to know what's going on, and actually research game mechanics to know things like "we were winning, we took most their objectives, then 25 minutes in we started losing suddenly and got rolled. Why?"

[rich grove]

i can confirm this as someone who empirically has no hands, judging by my kovaaks scores

[autumn field]

Yeah i feel like you can probably get to the mid-ranks at a least just by using knowledge and skills well

meanwhile, eternus, based on how the DLNS players play... yeah you're gonna be fighting against people who turn silver into movement heroes

my aim is mid-grade at best

[long flame]

I got to mid-high just off transferring mechanic skills from other shooters but I'm now needing to learn macro to make it into phantom/ascendant/eternus currently

First moba so that stuff has been pretty new to me

[autumn field]

also movement

movement is crazy in this game

iirc someone said the only difference between a bad shiv and a good one is movement

[magic summit]

Movement is definitely a big deciding factor in like

Moment to moment fights

It basically determines if people can just run up and 1v1 you or not

[autumn field]

i find even the ability to do a basic edgeboost or cornerboost (ive been bouncing off walls and now corners a lot) means you basically get a free escape as paradox

assuming enemy doesnt have movement skills galore

simply cuz most of em dont know basic movement beyond spam stamina

[errant sphinx]

im pretty mid at the game but the way i see it is grinding movement lets you potentially gap in even/slightly unfavorable 1v1s but better macro can definitely get you to situations where no matter how good someones movement is you dont gaf

either way you probably wanna get better at both

[autumn field]

granted, this is top 1% movement, but there's clips of silver escaping like, 4 players chasing them despite having only 2 stamina, or the holiday rotations, etc

realistically speaking though, being consistent at corner or edge or whatever boosting will make it so much easier to rotate, bring urn to where it should be, and such

[long flame]

I've been solely playing Celeste this past week and when her movement finally clicked it's been crazy

I never die because people can't hit me and I have too much self heal

[autumn field]

omy to vortex + slowing bullets + knockdown you

[worldly dirge]

dont forget curse

and doorman ult

into a wraith ult and then a dynamo ult

[finite grotto]

I really need to train edgeboosting

[undone galleon]

edgemaxxing arc

[jovial jay]

seven already has inherent ricochet so it's less valuable on him

[stable forum]

Wait, Silver's not a movement hero?

[vast sandal]

Silver has 2 Stamina and weak base movement

Depending on your outlook that either means she’s not a movement hero, or you’re obliged to buy movement items and turn her into one anyways.

[stable forum]

she has stamina reset on Boot Kick and Mauling Leap has a 7 second cooldown

she's very fast baseline

or, not 'very fast' but like quite high mobility

[magic summit]

I wouldn't really describe her as a movement hero

[stable forum]

I guess a lot of that is my bias to immediately going for Boot Kick / Mauling Leap 2

[vast sandal]

Mauling Leap makes it weird I guess

Werewolf Silver is quite nimble

[stable forum]

oftentimes she'll get to use Boot Kick & Mauling Leap consecutively too.

[final osprey]

Silver is a movement hero because you need good movement to be able to use her

If you have bad movement, people will just leave when you turn into a werewolf

[magic summit]

Should I call Paige a movement hero?

[stable forum]

paige doesn't have two dashes

I think Silver is not a movement hero until you get Boot Kick / Mauling Leap 2, but I think not taking Boot Kick / Mauling Leap 2 immediately is just incorrect.

Not having 7 second cooldown Mauling Leap during transformation feels so bad

I guess if you're wanting to focus on not Lycan Curse / only use Lycan Curse defensively it'd be fine?

[final osprey]

When Paige has 7.5m ability, and a gun with a even shorter range sure

[agile void]

got my first hateful friend request, at least he told enough heinous stuff so I can report him in steam

[twilit roost]

Take it as a complement you played well enough to piss them off like that lol

[agile void]

nah It was on my team

guy got angry that It went shit for me, going 0/4 as Mo into a Haze/Bebop lane

[final osprey]

Haze is really rough to play into as Mo and Krill, their hitbox is simply so big. The old build I used say that the best counter itemisation into Haze as Mo is to just, switch lanes.

I miss that build, it was a beautiful thing

[agile void]

If it was just Haze I could work it out

but bebop grabbing me and just killing me as a big body, that was just going to happen

also after the chat I got curious about his twitch, the name was a ttv and It turned out it was a lol streamer, so I guess that checks out

[jovial jay]

She's like Mina, limited base movement because her abilities compensate, and if she had 3 stam base with all that it'd get real busted

Imagine the werewolf form with 3 stam, its leap, and stamina mastery for 5

its already scary to get run down by that

Its not always the case though, looking at you mcginnis

no TP, no Escape other than pray turrets distract, 2 stam

[agile void]

or get disarm so she gets fucked in ult, her biggest moment of burst damage

[lavish grove]

It’s crazy how the second I pop silver ult everyone in the match gets significantly better at movement tech

[slender falcon]

fear is a great motivator

[stable forum]

hehh

I've been looking at Point Blank versus Slowing Bullets on Silver and my conclusion has been to run both.

[worldly dirge]

silver ult is a true motivator

everyone gains speed

if i ever play silver again im getting knockdown

[stable forum]

I recommend Warp Stone instead

but Knockdown is valid honestly. Ability Range is a stat she is alright with having- it increases her dash distances.

tbh knockdown is probably valid on every character.

[gritty geode]

Unless you need every single ounce of damage knockdown is a good buy for pretty much everyone in my experience ( pisslow )

The stun is relevant always and the looming doom of the anvil provokes panic

[final osprey]

I don't think I've ever been annoyed about having a knockdown on hand

It's a very feel good item

[worldly dirge]

phantom strike would be a side grade if they have more gun heroes

everyone gets it and the enemy cant play lol

[jovial yacht]

how i feel when using knockdown

[autumn field]

What i mean is people who've mastered movement to the point of where her movement appears like a movement machine

[lavish grove]

Chat, I’ve noticed that lately most of my games go to super late game, more then usual

Anyone else feel this since the recent patches?

[worldly dirge]

mine are a swing between super late 60 , normal 40 min game and 20 speedrun

no in between

[lavish grove]

Huh

[worldly dirge]

https://statlocker.gg/profile/385216934/matches

Here is my stat locker profile if you want to check out the rest of my times for comparison

All my games are there

[finite grotto]

Hmhm ~~ has never build Knockdown before~~

I def should tho but for the heroes I play I always want something else

[worldly dirge]

its a good item to get damage in

also great for stuff that flies

sometimes you have to sacrifice damage and counter buy

counter buying is the difference between a apollo that is always stabbing you and a dead one that can use 75% of his kit

exibit A

the apollo was starting to be a threat

3 of use got slowing hex, he got dispel magic but to no avail and died miserably allot

[finite grotto]

I mean you don't need to tell me that

Counterbuy is good yes.

[stable forum]

if you play Warden you should buy knockdown now.

Buy knockdown first item. Make the Lash you're laning against say toxic things.

you probably know this though

[finite grotto]

I mainly play Yamato, Lash, MnK and a bit of Apollo!

Tried to add mina to the pool but I am diabolically bad on her

[stable forum]

huh!

Lash can by Knockdown, and so can Krill I thiiink.

Knockdown on Lash is funny and mostly just viable because Lash has a solid base kit and does appreciate ability range.

means you won't blow people up as much though.

[rich grove]

cackling madly

paradox buffs

[stable forum]

where notes?

[rich grove]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1422450/view/670617878982034052

new urn changes are kinda wild

[stable forum]

oh

why is it 5-28

[finite grotto]

Why do we need mid boss spawned start of game

[stable forum]

:o

[finite grotto]

Ohhh earlier invest bonus

Crazy urn changes

[finite patrol]

week early pogchamp

[finite grotto]

Dayum the Apollo 2 Nerf?

YOOOOO

[vestal trench]

Oh, new investment tiers!

[stable forum]

50% resists while Favored for urn is umm

a lot.

50% is a big number!

[vestal trench]

Yamato tether is still silly, no touching my 40 spirit power

[finite grotto]

Really happy about the Crimson slash bigfix

Cause that shit was annoying

[stable forum]

hm, they didn't tap shred so the 50% resists might not actually be as big as they sound.

• Guardian Ward: Cooldown increased from 45s to 60s
  sad

[vestal trench]

Oh its like hot potato yankee football now

Hell yeah these are the sort of wacky mixups I want them to try

[merry verge]

Oh this is horrid

Everyone that complained go to hell and stay there

[still swan]

How bad are we taking?

[merry verge]

well

just sort of 'you have to have a pre-emptive door'

or enemies will just follow you

'cause you can't close it for some reason

which just seems: stupid

[still swan]

Mhm

[merry verge]

I just don't like -feel bad- kind of changes, number adjustments are fine but like

A New Problem

ugh

[stable forum]

'- Mina: Innate -8% Debuff Resist'
This is a very funny stat to put on a character.
Mina now gets stunned 8% longer.

[stable forum]

I think this mostly means people can actually potentially catch The Doorman now?

[vestal trench]

Oh my god, im reading they changed so much stuff. Tons of tiny item stuff

[merry verge]

Exactly, how dare they

[vestal trench]

No cheat death shenanigans.now, we follow you to your house

[merry verge]

Exactly, that's awful

Absolute ass

[autumn field]

• Ballistic Enhancement: Now upgrades from Mystic Expansion

[stable forum]

do the funny thing

use the changes to bait someone into chasing you directly into the Baroness Hotel.

[merry verge]

You could always do that orz

[stable forum]

yes but now they're going to be more inclined to chase you.

[merry verge]

They always try, thus making this change potently annoying

[autumn field]

im getting this "cannot find idolcashinmeter" error

nvm mod issue

[merry verge]

What kills me is this won't stop any complaining at all

'cause they touched Bell Damage but also made everyone slightly less sturdy so nothing changed

[vestal trench]

gloom bombs are real!!!!

[autumn field]

today i got a mina scream at me in vc

muted em

[spring tundra]

The new urn seems

Uh

Seems like itll make the snowballing problem even worse

Because urn is now Mandatory Team Fight lol

Might screw it out of being a comeback emchanic

[agile void]

will it?

• If the urn is Favored or Unfavored (in a comeback state), then the Favored team will get +50% Bullet and Spirit Resist in a 60m radius around the urn while it is being carried, dropped or deposited.

sounds like the team that is being favored to is getting a bone

[lavish shale]

you do get a large resist buff when favored, yeah

which should make fighting over comeback urns at least a little easier

[spring tundra]

God is real and his name is yoshi from mario

[vivid nimbus]

Oh this is a big deal. Besides not triggering on objective damage, you also can't use it to go "lol, bye"

[spring tundra]

LMAO

[vestal trench]

Finally they touch on dynamo entanglement that shit was stupiddddd silly

[spring tundra]

hi tech

[merry verge]

2-1 Regen is also huge for Apollo Earlygame

every problem laner has had 2 regen i swear

[vestal trench]

What does crit damage mean is there crit in this game ????

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah you didn't even look at part one of the Riposte changes

[lavish grove]

These silver changes are making me think that spirit snatch+bullet resist shredder is now the play on her

[vivid nimbus]

Headshots

[lavish grove]

Since that gives her both damage and her Lycan form fire rate

And that mark damage

[spring tundra]

Ohhhh i see so like

[stable forum]

headshot

[spring tundra]

You cant use riposte to escape

Anymore

[lavish grove]

Nope

[stable forum]

it means he only takes 45% normal headshot multiplier.

[lavish grove]

It’s purely for going in more

[merry verge]

They should let everyone into Mo tunnels if Doorman can't close his door

[spring tundra]

I also think its a useability buff

[vivid nimbus]

Really amused that you call them Mo tunnels

[agile void]

which honestly it was pretty annoying

in a

[merry verge]

Well he's tunneling

[vivid nimbus]

MnK is like the worst user of the tunnels

[agile void]

"I already slowing hexed you stay fucking there"

[stable forum]

you can not use the recast

[merry verge]

Oh no I don't mean the double sewers

sewertunnels

metrostation

[stable forum]

not using the recast is gvalid with riposte.

[spring tundra]

Cause like

[lavish grove]

That’s true yah

[stable forum]

it's also still a looong stun.

[spring tundra]

The riposte jump autocasying made it

Hard to aim

For me personally

Like even when i was going in with it i would just miss because it just instantly does it

Not an apollo main obv just meant it made it hard to casually use gim lol

[agile void]

So the urn is now like

an actual ctf

....

wait a second

60m

...

Does that reach midboss pit?

[spring tundra]

The midboss spawning instantly idk what the effects of that will be

But its scary

[lavish grove]

Honestly I can’t imagine much

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone take midboss quickly after it spawns

Since you can’t really

You just don’t have the DPS to do so that early in the game

[rich grove]

more to the point respawn is like 20 seconds

[lavish grove]

Oh yah I missed that change

[rich grove]

this is just talking about early respawn timers in general

you can't generally get enough of the enemy team dead at once to stop a contest

[spring tundra]

Fair enough

[lavish grove]

Also Chatroom, after testing stuff, I’m still very early so I can’t say for sure

But I think quicksilver and spirit snatch are kinda compy on silver now

These extra spirit scalings are making them even more valuable and getting another ammo reset button is really good

[merry verge]

Heavy Melee Drifter going to rip people apart perhaps

[lavish grove]

Reloading is always the biggest issue in human form

[spring tundra]

Also is melee lifesteal on abrams passive new

I feel like it is

[lavish grove]

I think so yah

[vivid nimbus]

Midboss spawned at start is probably a non-factor for most games, I never see people go for it before minute 12, and before 20 is rare

[lavish shale]

it is

[agile void]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I loved these jump pads as mnk

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[lavish shale]

oh it's those jump pads

[merry verge]

That feels like a strange change tbh

[vestal trench]

Ok some of these are crazy crazy. I like graves having inherent summon

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah I thought a different pair removed, dang

[lavish shale]

I thought it would have been the ones around the middle of the map

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah my guess was the ones people take from blue lane to the buffs

[lavish grove]

It looks like wraith’s reload is slightly broken

Her magazine is at the bottom of her model instead of in her gun

[stable forum]

quicksilver makes me sad. and I like Radiant Regeneration too much to go for Spirit Snatch. Spirit Strike I tried for a bit, didn't like it too much? It's fine, I think.

Her new spirit stuff is weird in general. She has less firerate on Lycan Curse overall now I believe.

not that much less, but less.

[lavish grove]

Is this based off last or current patch?

[stable forum]

I did things last patch with it.

[lavish grove]

Ah yah

[stable forum]

but I was buying 4800 spirit on Silver before this patch.

so I don't think this patch changes much for me?

I think if you weren't buying 4800 spirit on her before you should absolutely now.

[lavish grove]

Oh yah absolutely

[stable forum]

if you just want damage I'd recommend uhh Torment Pulse + Spirit Strike + Mystic Expansion (Boot Kick / Mauling Leap)

I think that Silver really wants to hit Boot Kick so I value Range on it pretty highly.

I didn't like torment pulse that much when I tried it.

I do think Silver can go for Mystic Shot though? Which is a little funky.

additional spirit damage sources make triggering Lycan Curse very easy in my experience.

[late hare]

oh new urn is funky

[fickle kite]

goodbye objective obliterator victor

hello easy mode Yamato

[late hare]

rem buffs

I weep

[fickle kite]

and Venator buffs

Lordy thats a beefy boy

[agile void]

guess it makes sense

[vivid nimbus]

stares at Bebop sitting there between Rem and Ven

[fickle kite]

I'm sort of baffled by this I don't think theres a single game I'm in without at least 2 of these 3

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah they're very popular

[fickle kite]

oh shit did Sinclair get anything this time around?

[vivid nimbus]

Nope!

[fickle kite]

lmao!

gosh I feel so bad for them they're such a cool concept with a cool kit

[maiden ledge]

I hope these urn changes help save me from the normal frustrations that happen when running urn 🫠

[fickle kite]

your entire team is watching on the sidelines as you desperately try to break the ankles of the entire enemy team defending against you delivering the urn?

[maiden ledge]

Watching is a mercy

more like doing T1 creeps or boxes

Which I get why

[vivid nimbus]

Ivy, Lady Geist, Mirage, Sinclair, Vindicta, and Wraith are the ones with no balance changes this time around

(Outside of universal changes and item changes)

[maiden ledge]

but like. it's urn! Everyone gets a buff on claim + souls! You deny it from the enemy team and when the enemy team fights over it our team always splits into an argument about intercepting or engaging a teamfight somewhere else

[fickle kite]

Ya my whole thing is I just don't want the enemy team to get it

[maiden ledge]

Me too

[agile void]

whats the stats page of dota 2?

[maiden ledge]

I try to run denial during since oftentimes my ping on urn is met with a universal "No!"

[agile void]

now im curious how pudge is

[vast sandal]

More than anything else, the reason you need to run urn the moment you have a decisive advantage is so the enemy can’t

[maiden ledge]

I recognize that. I hope Yoshi's new changes helps other people recognize that

But like. If it was something that turned me away from playing then I'd try to solve the problem by just. Playing with a stack

[fickle kite]

ya I've been getting more confident talking to my randoms. I am more often than not pleasantly surprised by how cool they are

[lavish grove]

Urn changes first impressions:

Makes comebacks quite a bit harder

[maiden ledge]

Deadlock is surprisingly less toxic than I expected

[agile void]

I still found it funny how the dude that friended me to harrass me

I check his twitch, he streams lol

[fickle kite]

oop

[mild flume]

report his twitch

[agile void]

he was off stream

I did report steam because he was being xenophobic

[fickle kite]

ya I've gotten a lot of friend requests from just condemning toxicity of my team or our opps

[late hare]

good honestly

if I'm stuck in there as Bebop I want him dragged down with me

[agile void]

main reason I friended him, hoped to get something to send steam to his ass

if anyone is curious about the thing I can send you a Dm with what he said, dont want to post the image here directly

[fickle kite]

Ya! Gaben eat this guys games hes a douche

[somber creek]

Did they change urn?

[lavish shale]

yes

[vivid nimbus]

A lot

[twilit roost]

So now that midboss spawns at the start of the game is it better to cart people into it instead of guardian as midlane during laning?

[finite patrol]

no

you can shoot people while carting them into your guardian

and so can your homie

[lavish grove]

So chat, turns out an early mid boss is very possible if everyone grabs monster rounds

[somber creek]

Scrolled through the changes

Yoshi please
treat Holiday like she's real

Holiday and Vyper are REAL they EXIST

[slender falcon]

cooking up a skin modpack for my deadlock enjoyment

Dante (Limbus) Doorman might force me to learn Doorman

[fickle kite]

Sinclair dissolving into nonexistence reading this

[lavish grove]

Man chat, I was playing Apollo Vs a graves that got the new grit item

And this thing is kinda crazy

Just a universal shield you can buy first thing in lane

[fickle kite]

lit, I've been playing with reactive barrier a lot so that's pretty cool

[vivid nimbus]

Enjoy your gun damage Voy

[slender falcon]

time to play genuine brainrot

I had to fight myself not to add Tung Tung Tung Sahur hidden king minion skin mod

fuuuuck agnes tachyon paradox mod doesn't work

[lavish grove]

Yah this update broke a few mods unfortunately

[slender falcon]

decent amount of important ones still work

ROR2 engineer mcginnis

[somber creek]

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-dumb-and-dumber-jim-carrey-sad-sad-face-gif-19223141

[spring tundra]

I mean thh gun holliday does feel

Really good now

[jovial jay]

Listen, Holliday got two buffs;

1. More damage
2. Everyone's HP nerfed

[spring tundra]

With her recent handling changes

[jovial jay]

I hope this amkes her feel good, but not OP

stares at TF2 sniper
"Never again"

[merry verge]

Speaking of snipers Velocity Paige is hilarious

[slender falcon]

I am DOGSHIT at vindicta

I lose ALL ability to aim

limpest fucking performance of my life

I'm going to play someone else for now

[vivid nimbus]

Also the weirdest thing about urn is that they flipped the spawns

It went from spawning yellow first to green first

[lavish shale]

Wait that was fixed?

I thought it was random

[vivid nimbus]

For months it's been "yellow ten-oh, green fifteen"

[lavish shale]

Huh, didn't know

[lavish grove]

Does Sinclair get the scaling stats from any ultimates that give stats on kill (Ex: Vindicta, Grey Talon and M&K)

[somber creek]

ya

[lavish grove]

Sick

[lavish grove]

So far, not big on the urn changes

Kinda just gives the winning team an even bigger advantage

Even with the resistances it provides they don’t really matter at a certain point

If the enemy is winning hard they’re still gonna win the team fight

And like, once urn is deposited those resistances are gone so now the losing team has to fight the winning team without them right above mid

So late game urns then also determine who gets mid

[finite grotto]

Yam changes are so nasty 😌

And spirit snatch and mystic shot buff also help her 😌

[hallow zenith]

Oh those two got buffed?

[finite grotto]

Ya

[late hare]

I'm kinda nervous about the new urn stuff, yeah

[somber creek]

I'm excited about Billy buffs

[finite patrol]

if the urn changes are bad they will revert em

I like that it fucking kills you if you hold onto it for too long now

[autumn field]

wrong chat

[finite grotto]

Ok as a yam player I think the buffs were a bit much

She feels soooo strong

[autumn field]

i just got a brawl match where i became literally god

my mods broke :(

but

best part about it was despite toxic start it ended with everyone being nice

even the toxic people

i did like telling ven (who died a bunch) "my good brother in christ have you heard of the blessed color green?" because they had literally 1 green item and it was inhibitor

sinclair was horrifying

he didnt do too many kills but if abrams coordinated a little better, if vin wasnt new to vin (and got her greens, she had none), i think they wouldve won it easily

im lucky it was brawl, cuz i misplayed so much and got away with it because i just happened to not be the central no. 01 focus

viscous and bebop took most of the aggro due to how their kits work, and that meant i could burst down abrams and vic while purging vin every 20 seconds from the map

[autumn field]

So,fun fact, she can just grapple to do urn instantly

[finite grotto]

Lol

That means also another escape route then

[autumn field]

If you get an ally on bridge you can just dash jump double jump or something, grapple, and fly to mid bridge

[vivid nimbus]

Oh it doesn't count flying strike as a movement ability? That's a mistake

[autumn field]

Apparently

[merry verge]

Yeaaah, this patch is. Something.

[vivid nimbus]

I mean, I haven't seen any new problems besides with the urn

[rich grove]

that doesn't seem like a small problem

[merry verge]

The Door change feels abysmal, the Urn is pretty huge, and Super Rem isn't a personal favorite orz

[finite grotto]

I hope people will not swarm to yamato

[merry verge]

Yamato must be bad at a level of play I'm not experiencing because she's felt like fine every patch she's buffed

some sort of Anti Shiv, good at low elo, rough up high

[finite grotto]

She was in a totally fine spot last patch ye

[merry verge]

but like I would take half damage on his kit for this door thing to change back, like any play with it is just

it's so busted now

no escapes no kidnaps unless you start 'em from atop a mountain

[finite grotto]

Eh I think she is kinda shiv comparable. Good yams are noticeable good and bad Yamatos do pretty bad. I assume that's why the buffed her again

Crimson slash bug fix is really nice tho regardless

[merry verge]

what is it about cone abilities

they have to retouch like all of 'em

[rich grove]

why was it even a cone?????

[merry verge]

Is it not? :|a

[finite grotto]

Fucked up number at t3

[worldly dirge]

Laning against yamato is going to hurt

[vivid nimbus]

At ~40 spirit it's only gonna be like 10 more damage per cast than before

It's the post-lane phase that's gonna hurt

[finite grotto]

Yeppers

[merry verge]

Silver feels almost exactly the same, the adjusted cycle speed seems to have been a vibes-based adjustment, but with everyone having lower HP Slam Fire is eating good

Venator gets sturdy

[autumn field]

im now tempted to build yamaegg

make post lane HELL

i wanna build biblical greed yamato

[merry verge]

The only cheaper item you really need is Torment Pulse

[rich grove]

like ridin a bike.

GREEN ABRAMS JUMPSCARE

wince

ONE debuff remover???

ONE of them????

[autumn field]

at least most of them had spirit resil

though, prolly doesnt matter cuz you prolly had esc exposure

[rich grove]

yeah lol i was just so confused

like why did it not occur to them 😭

[autumn field]

ok whoever this was

actually not bad

cuz spellbreaker + weighted shots both give debuff resist

i dunno who this could be ngl, im getting paradox vibes but im not sure

christ who the hell is this

m&k???

[final osprey]

Krill cannot build gun. It's simply not possible

[autumn field]

pocket

it was pocket

god i shouldve known

this one was instantly guessed

only 1 hero i know of who would buy this exact setup

[rich grove]

the most blatantly shiv coded setup ever holy hell

[autumn field]

ikr

also, paradox gets high velocity?

[rich grove]

wasn't it for high velo opening rounds

that was a disgusting amount of stats last patch

[autumn field]

oyeah

this one was piss easy

[rich grove]

warden buys extra regen that regularly?

[merry verge]

Does Geist get anything outta Extra Charges, I could see her for the shiv'n if so

Also buffs might be enough to play with Veil walker on Drifty again, movespeed man is fun

[worldly dirge]

Dont think thats a warden build

[worldly dirge]

Only on maxed 2 but its not great

Still has a long recharge time

[merry verge]

Does seem like an odd upgrade tbh

[autumn field]

it was lash

[autumn field]

lash

[merry verge]

Lash likes radiant regen?

[autumn field]

oh wait you were talking the pior build

[autumn field]

this is shiv

[worldly dirge]

Though so

Gun lash was a thing

[worldly dirge]

noooo, i dont want more graves players

[mild flume]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1476674892790497280/1507569666107900016/Replay_2026-05-22_19-22-52.mp4?ex=6a126129&is=6a110fa9&hm=e945c439b63c9bc9d0f1467cafe6ef65591494fc314064158ede51b513a5df2f&

[agile void]

burrow doesnt count as a movement ability either

https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1tlb7gk/urn_delivery_in_565s_wr_no_items_category/

the issues seems to be more how her ult overrides the slowing hex

[lavish grove]

Oh dear

That’s concerning

[bleak thicket]

real dota hours with this one

[jovial jay]

I've played 2 games with this urn system and my initial impression is
"that's a lot of mid fights" and I'm unsure if the location being fixed is a good thing

like the heavy melee and deposit times though

forces commitment and an actual fight for the urn, not just dunk it because you baited people and then ran away

[lavish grove]

I wouldn’t mind the KOH system if they kept the old locations

But I really hate it always being a mid fight

[jovial jay]

I think the locations changing is good I also like the idea that the urn drop off location can change if you lose control of the urn

or if you want to reset it

eg it stars neutral but if it becomes a comeback urn and the comeback team grabs it or resets it the depo location changes

[final osprey]

I find that currently, everyone is so focused on urn that side walkers are almost free. I think people need time to get used to it before we know for sure if it sucks or not

[jovial jay]

yeah we need a week or two

[lavish grove]

Celeste with new magic carpet is, really goddamn funny

[slender falcon]

fighting a lash and dynamo in street brawl and it is actually making me mald

[slender falcon]

I got lashed into a singularity INTO THE HOTEL

THIS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A WAR CRIME

okay we're zen

we're zen

[vast sandal]

Thank you for giving your life at the Baroness. Gratuities are always appreciated, but never expected.

[final osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/water-stones-gif-11693272542926538300

[vast sandal]

Idk I feel nothing getting hit with CC chains in Deadlock

Sometimes ya just die

[slender falcon]

let the 3 deaths to lash into singularity into hotel into lash gank wash over me like water

[slender falcon]

this is true

[final osprey]

When I get hit by a CC chains generally we end up winning the fight

People love to initiate on me and lose the subsequent fight

[slender falcon]

I would be fine getting mega ganked if we won but we lost 0-3 in street brawl

[stable forum]

it's like Extra Health but slightly different.

[agile void]

tank eating 4 to 5 ults and the rest of the team going to clean house

[finite patrol]

I feel like grit is kinda bad unless youre building into one of the other barrier items

[vast sandal]

The incoming rework/redesign curse…

[agile void]

I mean reactive barrier is triggered by anything that is not a silence,knock up or slowing hex

[lavish grove]

What if we just have Holiday 3 stamina?

[finite patrol]

sounds like an item to build into :P

[agile void]

also remember

[finite patrol]

ive heard bad things about indomitable

[vivid nimbus]

It's half a reactive barrier for half the cost that you can turn on whenever you want

[agile void]

also the little extra health because green investment

[finite patrol]

why do people keep responding to my post saying the item is bad unless you are building it into something telling me that the item builds into something 😭

[agile void]

when its reactive barrier not useful?

genuine question

[vivid nimbus]

No I mean I think it's as good on its own as reactive is

[final osprey]

Reactive barrier has a 5 second quicker cooldown, spirit scaling and the barrier lasts longer

[agile void]

its 200 sudden health the enemy has to chew through so if you were like close to death or you are like mo and krill and you need to last a few more seconds to scorn

[finite patrol]

I am not knocking reactive barrier. that item is great. you dont buy it every game though. and in terms of lane survival grit directly competes with extra health

[agile void]

what about extra regen?

[vivid nimbus]

The quicker CD is negligible when you don't control it, and the spirit scaling doesn't matter early

[finite patrol]

extra health is the most direct comparison

[agile void]

how much was extra health? 100?

[finite patrol]

210 lol

[somber creek]

Gonna start only critiquing people's builds on how and if they counter Sinclair specifically.

[finite patrol]

you can scroll up and read the context that I was originally responding to instead of being a dick about it.

the item does make all barrier items better because they now have an 800 stepping stone. im cautioning against the evaluation that its just a straight up good pickup on its own. its a weak laning item that directly competes with something that does the same thing better. it was a minor comment about the balance of an 800 soul item I dont really feel like litigating any longer.

[somber creek]

I'm not trying to be a dick though, that's not meant to represent you in the joke but an aside to everyone else

[finite patrol]

okay then I read that backwards, apologies.

[somber creek]

It's cool, sorry I didn't make that clear

[agile void]

I think it mostly depends if you want fortitude or divine barrier/indomitable

beside on paper you are technically getting more than 200 life from it if you dont turn it straight into guardians bane, which got a decent nerf in cooldown this patch

from 45 to 60 sec

[magic summit]

I am not too opposed to the urn changes from my experience so far but if they are doing this type of urn I feel it should have some sort of dedicated room or more advantage for the disadvantage team

Doing melee games on the bridge is like being thrown into some pit arena fight except all the spectators have guns to shoot you with

[vivid nimbus]

There's also plenty of lanes where you know guaranteed you're taking a chunk of damage in the next 4 seconds. Bebop bomb or Shiv knives or Infernus afterburn

Only one of these examples is on a hero that procs reactive

[magic summit]

Plus the resists are definitely not enough to overcome the disadvantage state. Maybe if they were a bit more or lingered a bit after the urn at least

[lavish grove]

God I’ve had leavers for the past 5 games

Genuinely I haven’t seen a complete game in a while

[agile void]

they could put it in the high ground or that room besides the mid walkers

that looks like a good spot

[cosmic cypress]

Drive by posting just to say I love the new urn

I love listening to low-fi beats to study to while I get souls

I do agree the advantage/disadvantage is ?

[finite grotto]

wait

sinclair can insta cap urn with their 2 lmao

[lavish grove]

After playing with it for a bit, quicksilver is so good on silver

It’s become my first 1600 item

[vivid nimbus]

"Movement abilities are silenced" is definitely not as comprehensive as it needed to be

[vast sandal]

Can you urn through doors again or nah

[vivid nimbus]

I think it drops when walk through it but you can punch the urn to pick it back up from the other side

[vast sandal]

Game over: return of the killer app

Diabolical Joechuck07 video incoming soon showcasing the ability to just circumvent the entire mechanic, slam dunk urns like a motherfucker and just banish anyone who tries to intercept

The cries of “remove Doorman” will continue

[merry verge]

So tragic how the populace can be so wrong

Truly though I'd take 1/2 damage on bells for this door change to be reverted

'ohhh but it's a free escape' he has to get through the wall with his actual body, which you can also do, I just do not get it

[autumn field]

It was sprit by the end but I think he wanted his 4.8k

[vast sandal]

It’s his literal core trait as a character…

[merry verge]

and now it's not a save or escape in most situations

it's such a miserable change

'pre place your doors' what in the goddamn hell do you mean

'telegraph your whole thing to the whole game from the start and put an innate timer on how long you can interact with the enemy'

[vast sandal]

What I will say is that if your doors are well placed and you know ball, the 8s cooldown on shutting the door seems pretty whatever because you benefit a lot from being able to duck in and out of doors anyways and it’s very uncommon for me to need to immediately emergency out and close a door unless it’s specifically for that purpose

Like

[merry verge]

Emergency Exit/Emergency Save is by far my favorite use and it's just dead

[vast sandal]

Kidnapping doesn’t really benefit from shutting the door that much outside of spawn shunts anyways

[merry verge]

Unless 500 shields will save your ally they still die

[vast sandal]

But yeah I just don’t get why you’d remove e-door anyways?

[merry verge]

???

To stop people

following them

[vast sandal]

No no

I don’t understand why Valve made the change

[merry verge]

Ohh

Because they hate me and my fun

Called me on the phone to tell me

[vast sandal]

It doesn’t like

[merry verge]

It doesn't solve the problems people even complain about

[vast sandal]

Reduce Doorman’s power or presence as a character hugely so much as make doors inconvenient

[merry verge]

Like I'm all for buffs/nerfs but it's when they change like gamefeel that it's rough

and 8s of non-interaction feels ridiculous

for The Door Man

[vast sandal]

Like for me it’s just

You didn’t take away any of my strengths you just made it all awkward and confusing

[rich grove]

it makes the 300 meter jaunt committal

[vast sandal]

It’s already committal though, door has a long cooldown

[merry verge]

And it's his literal gimmick

it's his thing

[rich grove]

I still don't know why this was the solve to the 0 risk cheat death duck n dive stuff as opposed to "slowing hex turns it off"

[vast sandal]

Not Having Door brutalizes his kit anyways

[rich grove]

or removing cheat death for other reasons

[vast sandal]

Why would they remove Cheat Death anyways it’s funny :)

[merry verge]

One of the three characters that use it

Can't have that

[vast sandal]

Like

[rich grove]

but it was absolutely crazy to me on launch that there was no penalty for going "hmmm nah" on the ability

[vast sandal]

I get it if they really don’t want Doorman to be this immortal twink with the displace of the gods and the ability to duck out of fights at will, I think it’s silly not to let Weaver do Weaver things but I at least understand why

What I don’t understand is this particular balance lever

If you decided Door was strong enough it needs a longer cooldown I’d go “yeah fair, if I do a weird door in lane to fuck with them it should be an opportunity cost”

[merry verge]

obviously someone at Valve had a friendly door closed in their face one too many times

another tragic loss of this change

[cosmic cypress]

'They didn't read the patch notes' by u/Jokinspore

[rich grove]

skullgirls creature

[autumn field]

Wait so theres an 8 second cd to close door?

[vast sandal]

Yes

[autumn field]

Damn.

Thats weird

Makes sense but it's weird

[vast sandal]

Patch feels very experimental

[autumn field]

I love how people have nightmares about box wraith

[vivid nimbus]

I think they just didn't like the safety he had in able to pull off a disappearing act and not be followed

I bet in a bit it'll get shortened to like 4-5 seconds but not go away

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1tlj97e/whole_house_mad/

we are reaching tiers of burger boxing no longer thought possible

[rich grove]

no I thought this was very possible

in the trenches of buttlo

[bleak thicket]

average dota fight

[cosmic cypress]

for real though the music that plays when you have the urn is a banger

[cosmic cypress]

Wild idea: treat it like Ivy/majestic leap where taking damage puts in on a short CD

like, 2 seconds

[jovial jay]

it's situational. my first game with it was into shiv bebop lane and I gotta tell you having a barrier against that, which I could trigger, as an 800? it felt nice

at worst it's a burst of extra health in the phase of the game where you may have the least tools to handle burst

and 400 loss

[somber creek]

I like it since I buy Guardian on Paige first

Also sometimes legit the most deciding point in lane is right as everyone gets ult

[finite patrol]

seems strictly worse than extra health in that lane :P

I think people underrate extra health as a lane item

[rich grove]

it is a FAT chunk of health

i think i buy enough purely lane items in lane as most tof my current hero roster that i can see the use in having a pocket paige 2 for 800

[finite patrol]

but generally against bebop I will buy grit

because it builds into reactive

[somber creek]

Not if you want to spend souls on THIS EXACT FIGHT NOW

[rich grove]

long-run ehp from extra regen/resto shot vs nullifying opposing trade windows is a reasonable tradeoff though

[lavish shale]

Feel like I'd rather have Extra Regen a lot of the time

[somber creek]

Ya

[finite patrol]

that is often correct yeah

you buy extra health against like apollo Mina lane etc

kinda mfs that can 100 to 0 you

[rich grove]

grit would probably be okay there actually

[magic summit]

Wouldn't those specific ones the barrier be better

[rich grove]

my understanding is that you can force trades with mina early levels after she pops bites

because she doesnt have any followup or cdr on the bites proc

[magic summit]

They both have % health interactions too

[rich grove]

likewise once apollo drops the telegraphed 160 bomb on you that's a window for 15 or so seconds

ill grant its probably harder to grit the mina bite on reaction cause the gauge is all the way off to the left but the apollo one is theoretically quite doable

that said it is still 60s cd

which is probably the biggest issue with that idea if you don't have ridiculous trade options of your own

[vivid nimbus]

Against Mina you can at lest grit the ult even if you're missing it in non-ult trades

[rich grove]

probably okay at low levels yeh

no ap5, no bites snowball yet

[finite patrol]

yeah that was a bad example cus you would love spirit shielding there

[rich grove]

debatably reactive for riposte/ult

depends on the rest of the comp and what you're doing

on further thought the overlap between all the characters you would buy grit for and all the characters you would buy a shield item against is pretty 1;1

maybe this is a preemptive nerf to nukers because of the hp deflation

[vivid nimbus]

I think I'd take it vs Shiv w/o necessarily upgrading to spirit shielding

[rich grove]

I'm not that scared of knives with how much they've been nerfed

[finite patrol]

does killing blow care about barrier?

[rich grove]

counting his charges is free

[vivid nimbus]

Killing blow cares about barrier if and only if you're above the hp threshold

[median lantern]

Thought I was in the Marathon chat

[rich grove]

LMAOOOOOO

toxic melee mod...

theres a world where you buy it for when he hits dash + cold front spike, but at that point maybe you would be buying a spirit shielding or another 1600 like enchanters

[jovial jay]

Night shift is doing some games for those wanting to see how the new changes impact high level play;
https://www.youtube.com/live/0h4is4872JM?si=Nj38LUzefyYt6hSp

[finite patrol]

hmmm. you know what. maybe grit is not bad extra health
its good extra regen...

if you shield 200 every time its 3.3 hp / s

and it builds into good items, which regen doesnt

🤔

[jovial jay]

Grit against bebop is good

anyone relying on early burst, its extra HP when you need it that the enemy can't chip away

[vivid nimbus]

Technically it's not Night Shift, the Night Shift crew is watch-partying Death Slam

[rich grove]

which of the 800 ui improvement mods is the one they're using on the dns stream

[somber creek]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1279436508662861824/1507877085199335554/deadlocks-community-after-the-recent-patch-v0-h60m5zqejs2h1.png?ex=6a137f78&is=6a122df8&hm=0da0fb798aea5c34d598f1b8d425d6131b4db445d948490cbbd6950132293868&

[finite patrol]

lmao the victor just ran past base guardians and started shooting shrines for 0 damage

[rich grove]

PRO PLAYER BTW

most literate deadlock player

[undone galleon]

da wallbreaker is no more

[finite patrol]

that was a fun game

eidorian with the 7/0/24 lash in a pro game

[rich grove]

dark souls font AVERAGE KDA RESTORED

this resolution is fucking killing me bro thinks it's cs 1.6

what the fuck is wrong with oses 😭

the fucking john daft punk

im cryin

[vivid nimbus]

Wait, which game are you watching?

[rich grove]

I'm watching deathy's stream

[vivid nimbus]

Ah okay Deathy is on the other game from the main stream

[finite patrol]

scarabs CAP LOCK

[vivid nimbus]

(Deathy's on LKW vs Levi, main stream is Floormen vs MC)

[finite patrol]

oses is kinda a freak

[gray otter]

i forgot how much i love playing vyper

[ivory reef]

extremely funny exhibit of how funny tanking can get in dota

[slender falcon]

the hidden queen gets so fucking mean when you die to rem

[severe loom]

Are you transing the hidden kings gender or do you mean the Archmother?

[slender falcon]

archmother

mb

[severe loom]

Yeah, the middle and high kill streak ones are rough, but they tend to be- look at Viscous vs. the Hidden King iirc

[slender falcon]

all of the characters are modded, Abrams and Warden just don't have icons

Abrams is sol badguy and warden is the payday 2 skulldozer

[severe loom]

And Silver, geezus

[lavish grove]

Kinda hope fleetfoot gets an upgrade one of these days

It’s a really unique effect but it feels kinda bad to keep it late game when there’s such better items

[slender falcon]

Seraphim Wings feels like a fucking shitpost

watching Warden just prance around in the sky

my aim is dogshit and I should not be playing gray talon or vindicta

[fickle kite]

one day I'll get the funny zap slipper on vyper

[autumn field]

A good Vin is a monster with Sera

Same with mina

[fickle kite]

no, beware the flying mcginnis

AC-130 hours

[slender falcon]

oh I figured it's just also really funny as a thing imo

I KNOW WE'RE LOSING TO A SMALL CHILD WITH A PILLOW ARCHMOTHER 😭

[fickle kite]

Rem has been a liability. Evil little chud

[gritty geode]

"Turn that Werewolf into a rug"

[hallow zenith]

I definitely see what people are saying about the urn being very snowbally

[gray otter]

yeah the resistances dont matter if the enemies cannot get to the urn

[terse aspen]

She is providing air support for M1 Abrams and attempting to shoot down the enemy Geist B-52 Bomber

[gritty geode]

ICBP
Inter continental ballistic pillow is what my friends and I call it

[autumn field]

this was sad

basil infern is so interesting

[lavish shale]

Very green

[autumn field]

yeah

[vast sandal]

did you mod a damn Sharingan over Focus Lens

[lavish shale]

That's Spirit Burn

[vast sandal]

okay

the question still stands

did you mod a Mangekyo Sharingan over Spirit Burn

[autumn field]

:3

[mild flume]

oh that is interesting as a build

[rich grove]

local aoe merchant scams mmr out of hardworking child laborers

won the game by flying at the enemy team with bkb ap5 seven ult and falling asleep on my keyboard

[autumn field]

i think the idea is that infern just has good DPS + shred built into his kit, so you build him as a sustain tank that just hurts 24/7

who tf coul this be

its IVY?

[final osprey]

Gun Ivy loves Capicitor

[autumn field]

i can never see ivy as a gun hero ngl

she always felt like a hybrid to me

ngl guessing dl builds is hard af

like this is a build that confused me so much

it was graves but i didnt expect the rapid recharge

???????????????????????????????

what the fuck????????????????

[final osprey]

That one actually makes sense after you know who it is

[autumn field]

yeah its yama but like

the fuck is that

[final osprey]

Compared to Improved Spirit + Mystic vul, 7 spirit power and an extra -8% Spirit Res
Plus some extra damage

[autumn field]

i guess it makes sense im just not sure how reliable going for a heavy melee oriented item is this early

i know it procs whenever you hit your 2

esp cuz this is eternus, so burgerboxing is hard

[final osprey]

From what I've seen of streamers playing Eternus, they really really love doing light melees

[autumn field]

yeah im aware of light melee

its just hard to process cuz its very rare to get fed that high that early

[finite grotto]

It happens

I would have rushed trophy

[mild flume]

yea I dig it tbh

[merry verge]

Well it's been some hours and they haven't fixed my boy, i must simply assume that god is dead and we killed him

Time to focus on werewolves and draculas

[slender falcon]

Super Creek Victor or Mahoraga Victor

[maiden ledge]

mahoraga

raid boss victor that just exists to be a Problem

[slender falcon]

when Rem is on the enemy team he is a terrorist chud

when he is on my team he is a wonderful little woodland creature

play graves. 50 ping.
queue venator. ping goes to THREE HUNDRED OUT OF NOWHERE

😭

I can't even fucking hit the timing of the active reload that's how fucked it is

[vast sandal]

we're so back

god I love Door Man

<@&1277035919182008330> got a 5 stack looking for one more player anyone down

[slender falcon]

I could try? I'm not that good at the game but

[vast sandal]

ok

uhh, shoot me your steam ID

[autumn field]

If yall need another im in the mood to dead the lock

[autumn field]

I NEED THESE VOICELINES

theyre so cuteeeeeee

and so evil too

[lavish shale]

is that the cut Rem ult lines?

[autumn field]

yeah

"lets play catch warden"

like, holy cow 😭

hitting everyone with emotional damage 😭

[autumn field]

😭

ITS REAL????

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah

So keep talking about Slork

[cosmic cypress]

straight up slorking it

and by it, I mean the urn

[lavish shale]

got an Enhanced Spirit Sap in Street Brawl just now

and I didn't realize before that Spirit Sap is just a pretty hefty flat Spirit Power reduction

[lavish shale]

this one was pretty silly though
slap someone with -50 spirit and -20% spirit resist every 6s
and the debuff lasts 12s

[hallow zenith]

We won 3-0 in under 4 minutes

[vast sandal]

Hmm

Played some matches. I almost like new urn

2 things I don’t like about it:

• the dropoff being static and in mid, like everyone else has complained about (rightly), makes the entire game totally hyper focused on controlling the mid highground

• urn runs are so fast now that you either have to constantly patrol mid and form up the second an urn spawns to stand a chance of intercepting, plus there’s a lot less urn routing skill expression

Love the new mechanics though, having a drop time to actually encourage playing the urn as a team objective + having urn parry boxing matches is actually super fun

[cosmic cypress]

I like the fighting, but I think they should keep the locations

[vast sandal]

Also I think the comeback mechanic is a little weirdly tuned

It leads to a lot of fights where the urn rumble is even until it turns in and then enemy team crushes the comeback team

thoughts on the Doorman changes:

• why even nerf bell, what is this meant to do
• door close starting cooled down is brutal and means Doorman doesn't have an emergency escape hatch, which everyone basically saw coming, but it does turn doors into a weird presence in a teamfight where a door that's had some time sitting there established becomes much more useful and dangerous? it's a weird dynamic, I think that they should just change door so that you can't close it for a brief period after specifically Doorman passes through it

• you forced my hand. you made me kidnap all those helpless victims valve. you did this.

[autumn field]

new urn is snowballing af

[vast sandal]

it's weird, I think it's teamfighty as all hell and I have mixed feelings on that

but

I am a Doormain. I love teamfighting. I live for the reality where people have to willingly enter my magical realm on blue lane repeatedly.

[finite patrol]

it definitely looks like it has gameplay unlike old urn which often felt like nothing

[vast sandal]

dare you enter the domain of the doorman

[finite patrol]

its definitely not right atm but im glad they are trying stuff like this

[vast sandal]

yeah I like that it has gameplay but I dislike that we have to bare knuckle brawl every 5 minutes on the dot on mid in a barren wasteland with no cover elements or walls

[finite patrol]

I think fucking around with the urn like this would have been better if there were more than 2 neutral objectives

[errant sphinx]

Urn encouraging the losing team to group up to fight over it and then having the buff disappear as soon as it's delivered feels like an issue lol

[vast sandal]

genuinely