Deadlock

[frail jasper]

the change to getting %damage from kills OR assists is so massive

[agile rune]

making smart meta plays is not cheating, first of all

[lavish shale]

You got some before too, it was just way less

[frail jasper]

1% yes

[agile rune]

right? means you can jump someone with a teammate guilt free

[lavish shale]

It used to be 4%/1% now it's just always 3

[agile rune]

it makes roaming with a partner way more effective

[frail jasper]

Indeed, and this is good because it means you get more than 20% bonus if you're not leading the charge all the time (or having teammates steal your last hits)

[agile rune]

someone like vindicta

[frail jasper]

now I only got 8 kills in this game but ended up with well over +50% damage

[agile rune]

you can set them up for someone else to knock them down, and do it quite comfortably

[lavish shale]

I was exaggerating there yes
But Victor is basically the only character I'm good on
And he just feels too simple to fuck up

[agile rune]

being a one trick is fine

[frail jasper]

If you really want to meta climb, Geist is the key to easy winning once you get a handle on her. It is indeed fine though, I one-tricked viscous for months

in ye olde days

[agile rune]

I'm mostly a drifter one trick atm

[lavish shale]

Don't know why Victor doesn't seem played more tbh
Feel like I don't see him much when I don't play him myself

[agile rune]

I think folks feel he is too easily counterbuilt by anti-healing items and skills

my current 3 I'm running are Drifter, Billy, and infernus

[rich grove]

i think people in shitlo are also just way worse at kiting him

[agile rune]

considering some folks here are in low elo, not how I'd refer to it

[lavish shale]

My experience is that people need to pretty seriously build into countering me to seriously impact me
Plus a lot of people just don't do it anyway

[rich grove]

i am also in shitlo

[frail jasper]

The thing is that most of the items you can build to properly counter Victor also kind of kick everyone's ass, and for the most part it's just

• buy toxic bullets
• buy inhibitor
• buy healbane if you do lots of spirit damage instances

[rich grove]

do not buy toxic bullets

buy crippling headshot

[frail jasper]

That's in the list too but not shown here

[lavish shale]

Toxic Bullets i see all the time yeah
But it's not enough IMO

[rich grove]

toxic bullets is actively bad

jumpstart is really rough

you pop it, he presses 2, now you have to proc it again

[frail jasper]

Actively bad vs victor you mean, or in general

[rich grove]

actively bad vs victor

do not recommend it

[frail jasper]

cuz it's not the WORST if you can proc it decently fast

[lavish shale]

Inhibitor and Headshot definitely add more, but I much more rarely see people build those

[frail jasper]

really toxic is there for consideration because it can be bought at 3200 and works great on EVERYONE anyway

[rich grove]

yeah toxic is just like

you buy it because it's a damage item broadly

don't buy it against victor thinking you have magically owned him though

[frail jasper]

yes victor's 2 purges it so it's not the best but it's still an option

[rich grove]

at least not past ap5 on jumpstart

[frail jasper]

crippling headshot really is the answer, but I feel like for some people that's harder to justify

[lavish shale]

Also much harder to consistently hit

[rich grove]

silencer also isn't bad if you can't hit headshots but even just flailing around and dinking him once with a spray weapon leaves crippling headshot up for a while

the debuff lasts 12 seconds in between shots and it applies instantly at infinite range

[frail jasper]

some heroes have easier times applying buildup and headshot effects vs others, so it's harder to say what specifically is best on who but overall the idea is just buy the items that give easy healing reduction

[lavish shale]

Headshot also has the resistance shred

[frail jasper]

the alternative is to be playing some hero who can absolutely nuclear-burst him and just disregard his healing altogether

[agile rune]

who is that

[frail jasper]

IDK, probably someone who was winning the game anyway lol

Venator with 80k souls bopping people with his crossbow headshots

[rich grove]

he's just so thick it's basically never an option

especially not if he's fed, which he usually is if it's a complaint

[frail jasper]

Apollo can kinda do it if he's in his element. Grey Talon who's been landing bird kills all game. Vyper who's been fed and just bullet hoses him -> bola -> lethal venom

in all these cases though, the same items apply: healbane, toxic bullets, crippling headshot, inhibitor, spirit burn, and whatever the six thing I'm forgetting is.

[lavish shale]

Something funny I learned recently is that AP Bullets lets you shoot petrified people

[frail jasper]

cuz healing reduction is strong as hell, and crippling headshot is especially stupid because resist shred is also strong as hell

[rich grove]

yeah it's a pretty funny spike for vyper

people used to think it was a bug closer to when she released

[lavish shale]

I would have assumed it was immunity like Metal Skin, but I guess it's just a high amount of bullet resist

[agile rune]

I think the best way to deal with victor if he's like that is to avoid him and take on the rest of his team

[lavish shale]

The answer is always chain CC
But that applies to everyone

[agile rune]

if he's become the unkillable death machine he's probably pretty well fed, hopefully the rest of his team isn't

[agile rune]

this patch seems like it weakened chaining cc

[frail jasper]

Just avoiding problem enemies is a good solution, unless they're just smartly aggressive too and don't let you do that. But that's always just a crapshoot when doing solo queue, you never know what you're gonna get

[agile rune]

yeah that's why I almost never play solo

[frail jasper]

I like my duo queues, but can't always have that. We have a good sense of each other's intuition and play well together in most games.

I've practiced shot-calling for my randoms though and I think I've gotten decently okay at it.

[agile rune]

playing solo is rough, you either have to hyper carry or you're not gonna be able to control the game

[frail jasper]

I feel like my voice comms do really well at "carrying" even with randoms who don't know what they're doing. If I can get them to listen to me (not actually very hard imo) then I can give them instructions like I'm playing an RTS

mostly it boils down to just being in the right place at the right time sthough

[agile rune]

so do we think post this patch we're still in a brawl meta or are we split pushing?

I'm thinking still brawl

[lavish shale]

Same as before I think

Split pushing is and was very good, when you do it correctly

[frail jasper]

I think brawl because in this last game I did, we had a straight 6 minutes of fighting in yellow lane with streaming deaths and respawns to keep fighting more

but at the same time you go do that and have one of your people go split push, so... por que no los dos?

[agile rune]

agreed, in part because folks expect a brawl

[lavish shale]

I very often just rotate between side lanes in midgame, because people leave them undefended

[frail jasper]

it works great

always maintain healthy lanes and your game goes much more smoothly

[agile rune]

see I often sit in sidelanes, leaving briefly to jump someone or for a team fight

someone has gotta push the lane

[lavish shale]

You can also do stuff like the rest of your team threatening urn, while you push

[final osprey]

The dynamo capture range is so peak

[torn gulch]

I need to buy silencer more often ngl

[frail jasper]

It's pretty good. The actual silence is useful (if brief) for disrupting people's ability routines or reactions, but also the passive on-hit -25% spirit damage nerf really messes with a bunch of heroes.

[sand dome]

I've been basically one-tricking tank Bebop since I started playing last week, I just love making the hooks.
I dunno who else to play though for similar shenanigans

[agile rune]

bebop is the hook guy but maybe lash?

what do you like about the hook

[frail jasper]

They're not very comparable, but good Paradox swaps make you feel like a genius

[agile rune]

that it's a highly rewarding skill shot?

[sand dome]

Forcing enemies to be where I want them is great, but thats probably it.

I guess for highly rewarding skillshots, Venator ult would count?

[agile rune]

paradox, new wraith ult, lash, doorman

[frail jasper]

hook range can get up to ~70m in a typical game and damn if that isn't some ridiculous displacement

[sand dome]

Lash is always rough for me to play against, maybe I should play try him to learn how to counterplay him better?

But yeah, the super long range hooks just feel so satisfying to land

[agile rune]

vindicta?

snipe

[frail jasper]

Lash rewards you understanding verticality and air movement a lot, both of which are incredibly valuable on any hero.

I think Paradox swaps might be what you want, but have no idea if you'd enjoy the rest of her kit (and also haven't yet learned what her routine exactly is with these recent changes).

[sand dome]

Kind of terrible at air movment but I read it might partly be because I dont let go of W...?
Ill try Paradox and Vindicta out next though

[frail jasper]

Yes, holding W specifically cripples you in regard to air movement tech. Something I will STRONGLY RECOMMEND is actually playing some Holliday and practicing Air Strafing

Air Strafing works on literally all heroes but Holliday (and Celeste now) have access to improved air control which lets you practice and get a feel for it easier (more visible results)

[sand dome]

Got to unlearn the habit then lol, I'll just practice flying around in explore mode to start I guess

[frail jasper]

@sand dome https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qXwSAndCVz4
this is a good short video demonstrating how ridiculous air strafing is

but in general, getting into the habit at minimum lets you do curved movement off of air vents to circle around buildings

[agile rune]

the hated creature

[frail jasper]

the evil unicorn

[agile rune]

why is she so far away

still think she's an awful matchup

[frail jasper]

very much so assuming they know how to press 1 on you (most do)

[final osprey]

Slowing hex got a big buff, especially against Celeste this patch.

As it increases her gravity a ton

On top of the nerfs to air control she got

[frail jasper]

Buy slowing hex, then also get Focus Lens later as well

[agile rune]

yea

I almost always take slowing hex anyway

helps with the hunt

[frail jasper]

Forgot Spirit Sap got buffed hugely lol, 32s cooldown reduced to 18s and increase in spirit power loss

if you see a Celeste or any of those other "hyper spirit" heroes, spirit sap is an easy tool to cripple them- OH IT LASTS 12 SECONDS EVEN

simply put spirit sap on them as soon as they think to fight you and then watch them do no damage

[agile rune]

https://youtube.com/shorts/g2HwHJngLmQ?si=VQ9KW38FBMUW_xz1

[agile void]

a lot of videos have been popping around of deadlock this last month or so

[agile rune]

the game is currently very popular

[sand dome]

I am... absolutely lost on air strafing, just not clicking

[mint latch]

Valve on their way to somehow reach 100k players on a game that isn't even out yet

[agile rune]

tbf that's not uncommon with early access these days

the wild part is that it's an actual early access product

[mint latch]

What do you mean actual?

[agile rune]

many products that say they're in beta or early access are basically complete

[ivory reef]

Yeah the game is super unfinished and you can really tell

Every neutral camp is random aliens from the sci fi era of the game

[agile rune]

they're fantasy enough to not immediately twig but yeah

[mint latch]

Ic

[agile rune]

it's an actual unfinished, in dev, game, and it fucking slaps

it's sort of chasing the trend of hero shooters but not in a way that feels desperate, more like "oh these are cool we should do one" way

and it's a company that's made one of the most popular and long running mobas, so they're drawing experience from there

[mint latch]

Having 2 hero based games in their history definitely helps

[agile rune]

very true

[mint latch]

The movement is something different tho

[agile rune]

everyone is scout

[undone galleon]

also notably one that made the precursor to the modern hero shooter

lmao late on the draw

[torn gulch]

I read the patch notes and completely missed it

WHAT DO YOU MEAN SILVER ULT IS NOW 50S COOLDOWN WHAT

[agile rune]

valve is definitely in a spot where this being the product makes absolute sense but it's still impressive and a little surprising

[agile rune]

what

[mint latch]

Now that you mention it

[torn gulch]

I might as well build cooldown at this point or something what rhe fuckkkkk

The ult can literally pop by accidenttttt

And can't cancel in any wayyyyy

[final osprey]

Well don't worry, the 50 second cool down is actually good because your ult can now just get you killed
They stole your resist

[torn gulch]

I build resists anyway? And it's healing? And I get a giant ass leap to escape if I'm that low?

[agile rune]

all I know is I don't immediately feel like I'm playing from behind against silver now

still feel that against celeste, but my very early vibes have ivy infernus and wraith as the best characters in the game

[torn gulch]

Meleefernus is real

[agile rune]

pocket might also be cracked but I genuinely cannot tell with that one

[agile rune]

any kind of fern is real, he's free

he is the hydrogen bomb

[torn gulch]

Yes but-

[agile rune]

yee

[torn gulch]

Time to build spirit snatch on fern and see what happens

[agile rune]

great if you're up close, have built up burn mostly but need to reload to finish it

just get a light melee for that last bit

also feels like it always should've done that

[torn gulch]

I guess every other build up works with melee so I guess yeah

But it didn't and now it does meleefernus real

[agile rune]

it and the drifter ult change both made me go "oh yeah why didn't it work like that already"

so true solea, be afraid

[torn gulch]

I guess true, silver can feel really oppressive in lane, but also she is so gun skewed that you kill that and what does she even do

But maybe i'm just trash archon 5

[agile rune]

I thought people built green and purple on silver? idk I don't play her

I did not know silver was released on a full moon

[rocky cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/silver-deadlock-silver-deadlock-werewolf-good-morning-gif-8422714924426517146

[agile void]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rnkq9e/the_tunnels_are_getting_just_a_bit_scarier/

[agile rune]

I like that they're sharing the tunnel love

[astral lava]

how worth is it to actually do it as mnk, if you mistime it even a little you're just turbo fucked for half a minute

[torn gulch]

Orange and green with skew towards green

Maybe a few purple items, but they are ones like cooldown and stuff.

Or bullet shred

1.9 spirit scaling total on her wolf form not counting ult spirit scaling on fire rate because without orange you deal fuck all damage

And 3.6 on human

[lavish grove]

From @ saltypokerface

My friend’s doorman build

[torn gulch]

Wait...

[final osprey]

Preferable to death probably? With T3 you're only stuck for like 20 instead, which you can use to just farm the relatively free boxes.

[torn gulch]

I just realized

With stalker change

Silver can now apply healbane consistently

[lavish grove]

Also yah… I really don’t like that change playing with it more

It’s already weaker then it was before

[cerulean pendant]

(as a low rank mcginnis) oh no

[lavish grove]

Now I also have to wait longer between transformations

[cerulean pendant]

time to get disarming hex every game

[torn gulch]

As long as you stay outside of stalker range it's probably fine

Anyway, need to test Stalker/Weighted and Stalker/Express rush

[torn gulch]

If you're low rank you're probably outside of where people actually build healbane

[cerulean pendant]

actually yea come to think abt it idt i saw a lot of ppl doing much of any counterbuilding

[torn gulch]

Builds probably lowkey don't matter until like

Idk

Oracle

[lavish grove]

I don’t particularly agree

Having a good sense for building really helps you in the lower ranks

Since you’ll just be objectively stronger then everyone else who doesn’t have good builds

[torn gulch]

Everyone will be running something from the top daily builds, which are usually generally alright

[lavish grove]

Ehh, I feel like at low ranks people are generally either using default builds or building the top builds poorly

[torn gulch]

People won't counterbuild, but a lot will depend on actually getting that 1k/min trooper damage

[lavish grove]

The best top builds list a lot of niche items after all

[torn gulch]

And actually shooting better and moving better

[lavish grove]

I mean yah but like, if you’re in low ranks and stuck in low ranks

I think it’s fair to assume you’re lacking in mechanical skill

Which takes a lot more time to learn then how to build properly

[torn gulch]

Did they fix build queue autobuilding optional items

Because if they didn't then I guess yeah.

[warm sonnet]

With what farm? 😏

[somber creek]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rnwmno/another_patch_another_sinclair_upscale/

[vivid nimbus]

I could see “Wraith who runs boxes for fifteen minutes” also running it

[finite patrol]

i think Rem knows Ixian

[lavish grove]

He doesn’t, he’s butchering Apollo’s ult callout

[merry verge]

I don't think I like this patch

[finite patrol]

doesnt play currently but https://deadlock.wiki/images/c/cd/Familiar_sleepy_use_power_fencer.ogg

[finite grotto]

Damm how so?

[merry verge]

Well prepatch I didn't like Warden Viscous or Calico balance and well they went and buffed them

[finite patrol]

they buffed like 60% of the heroes tbf

[merry verge]

True, Cal is just rough stuff these days

[somber creek]

I feel like all 3 of those characters were relatively weak though

[torn gulch]

Just parry the punch

[merry verge]

parry every punch is a big ask when he has 12 every 24 seconds

Maybe Warden should be weak, maybe that's fine

[bleak thicket]

they also gave pocket a full direct counter to warden

[finite grotto]

viscous ye but i think calico and warden were p good before already

[merry verge]

Also wonder if the Shiv changes will get him under 40% winrate

I hear it's like a 'buff' to Perfect Shivs but a nerf to Bad Shivs

[torn gulch]

Thinking about just running no ult silver lowkey

[merry verge]

Zero Points Ult is real rough

it comes back around lategame (And once Unstoppable) but early it's like

if you're not On Top they get away

and you're just bigger with no resistances or range

[vivid nimbus]

Warden's gun build was pretty good before but the changes also seem to be pushing him off pure gun

[astral lava]

i think calico was maybe a little struggling even if annoying, viscous was undertuned, warden was fine

viscous and warden definitely strong as fuck rn tho. havent seen any calicos

[somber creek]

Warden is a solid hybrid character i think

[finite grotto]

so

you could say

my team did a lil feeding

like wtf

[agile void]

cybersex banged

[finite grotto]

so uh

game ended at 25 minute with venator having 62k souls or around that

[worldly dirge]

you call that feeding ?

[bleak thicket]

it does seem yall are lacking some basic anti other team items

no knockdown
no antigun

[worldly dirge]

we got a spirit nuke dynamo on the enemy team that snowballed

we could not leave spawn

[bleak thicket]

oh i was talking about vero's screenshot

[worldly dirge]

oh

[finite grotto]

tbh at this point in the game 3 out of 6 people were so omega tilted they jsut run into the enemy to die to make the end faster

[bleak thicket]

if theyre feeding report that

[worldly dirge]

yeah thats salvagable with some anti gun like plated armor

[finite grotto]

yee

[bleak thicket]

like if theyre literally running into the enemy

[worldly dirge]

reminds me of a wraith that died 27 times

[finite grotto]

i am seeing more and more skipping reverb on yamato at least midgame and going for mystic regen instead 👀

[merry verge]

Maybe trying to get her away from Power Slash Hyperfocus

[finite grotto]

I am also seeing like

mo and krill actually dealing isnane dmg

[final osprey]

They increased a lot of m/k's base damage and Scorn scaling

and they already had pretty good scalin

[gray otter]

trying to make a paige item list bc none of the ones ive found are perfect

first question: golden egg or nah

[lavish shale]

I'd say no

Paige actually has pretty strong poke in lane

[warm sonnet]

Ye, she's a living terror

Can just keep you from having fun in lane until you can dive her

[gray otter]

gotcha

[final osprey]

Paiges gun is decently okay. It gets under estimated a lot.
This isnt me advocating for the devils work of Gun Paige though

[gray otter]

gonna see if i can make a spirit paige build i like

[torn gulch]

Hmm I feel like I have weird lags on the new patch

weird

[vivid nimbus]

I've seen mystic burst first item on Paige

[warm sonnet]

Been seeing it too

[gray otter]

thing abt mystic burst is only her 3 procs it until she gets some extra spirit power i think

nvm

not true

[late hare]

I do this and it works out, but it’s hard to say if it’s better than other options

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah just her 3 until she has 16+ spirit power

[gray otter]

ok yeah no it doesnt proc on 1 until either your third item or your second item if its improved spirit or extra charge

and 3 is pretty easy to dodge before she gets one gazillion range

i do like mystic burst second tho

[vivid nimbus]

Fair

[late hare]

I buy that Paige can be a terror in lane, but in randoms I’d much rather just wait to scale tbh

[warm sonnet]

It's not a bad pick, but timing relevant

[gray otter]

i think i can probably afford to start with 1 and go extra charge first

paige 1 is annoying

[warm sonnet]

She can push lane and make holding the guardian annoying

"Why yes I do wanna set fire to your troopers landing zone. This time, the book burns you."

[gray otter]

yeah unironically i think extra charge first item is real

More Wyrms

[vivid nimbus]

Actually huh, 1600 souls in spirit means 11 from investment and (at least) 3.3 from boons, she only needs a smidge more

[gray otter]

yeah its weird

[vivid nimbus]

Getting lucky with one golden statue is +2 at that point and pushes her over

[gray otter]

extra charge puts her over the edge and also lets you use bookwyrm an extra time

im just gonna put every item i could want on paige into a build tbh

[gray otter]

huh, i like sinclair

[jovial yacht]

God I fought against a stacked Shiv, I thought they nerfed him?

20k soul lead over our 40k haze

Though when we killed him, he DC

[final osprey]

Not really. They nerfed his ult, so that he only has it for a team fight (20 seconds to recast instead of forever.
But his knives got buffed, lost on hit but gained big DPS buff. Slice and Dice has like escalating exposure built in now.

[rich grove]

2 stam is a pretty enormous nerf

[bleak thicket]

https://bskye.app/profile/moskidraws.bsky.social/post/3mgkhqactsk2w

[finite patrol]

congratulations on her transition

[rich grove]

TRUE

[somber creek]

I do think if theyre gonna make Silver's warform squishy she should get an extra stam in it

[finite grotto]

viscous is so fun

[finite grotto]

help

ivy is just playing for ult drop into her 3 lol

[vast sandal]

okay

Focus Lens Calico is an abomination lmfao

if you're behind and you can't kill people you just pick up Focus Lens and start nuking one person and then leaving

[torn gulch]

How the fuck do you play with people that just play passively bruh

bebop whose whole gameplan was hook under guardian

[hallow zenith]

Go out and farm a 10k soul lead on them, I think

[warm sonnet]

Unless its your Beepo

Then you gotta farm a 10k soul lead on the enemy lane

[torn gulch]

It's my fucking bebop

[warm sonnet]

Well, now you gotta play like an Eternus 15

Or see if someone wants to switch with you

[finite patrol]

*bops yr beep*

[finite grotto]

this ivy was perma ulting and dropping bombs into stone stomp

we were very hard losing early but wraith, infernus and viktor just to good late 😌

also holy doorman damage

[lavish shale]

any time I try to play someone other than Victor, I feel like I just fail

[frail jasper]

they can't stop da driftaaaah babyyyyy

[finite patrol]

@rich grove

[finite patrol]

when the stay really do be unforgettable

[rich grove]

THEY HAVE METAL SKIN

[vast sandal]

Bullets won’t work

[somber creek]

My friend is using a Dynamo build that says rush Goose Egg

and hold it until 20 minutes

[agile rune]

Why

I think part of my issue with goose egg is just how much cash you generate in deadlock

[vivid nimbus]

Which Vyper quote?

[agile void]

you have a big selection to choose from

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rob435/stop_saying_she_is_lebanese_she_is_argentinian/

ay carajo

[undone galleon]

honestly real

[finite grotto]

I just lost a game cause all 3 alive teammates forgot that the patron is immune when they all are i nthe circle...

so the minions just killed the patron since lash, viscous and vindicta were all just at various stages of flying..

[somber creek]

https://youtu.be/nehShdY9CzM

[maiden ledge]

... i should use that against those airborne players

[somber creek]

use what

[maiden ledge]

them just flying around to end game

[gray otter]

found 4 characters i like

paige graves celeste yamato

[somber creek]

I did some Pocket Chicanery

And I can't post it because the chat is just

extremely toxic

Or well hold on

Ah, it's not that good

[vast sandal]

I keep topscoring as Calico and then my team loses anyways

this is purgatory

[somber creek]

I managed to dodge an Apollo ult with pocket 2

[agile rune]

I’m out here cosplaying Han Lue the way I be Tokyo drifting

[vast sandal]

this is actually purgatory, I think Calico might be bad in pub games because if the game goes too long she falls off a cliff

[late hare]

tried them a bit in Street Brawl and I think I’ve asked before, but broadly how does Pocket want to play? They seems like they mostly just want to pop ult and then hide in the briefcase as a distraction

But I’m guessing that’s not really true

[astral lava]

pocket is a freaky assassin kind of. get in with majestic leap, ult, continue being a menace with coat and jacket and barrage
you can hurt someone real fast

importantly the briefcase does a ton of damage

[agile rune]

hit and run and disrupt

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1roqzjw/bebops_bizarre_adventure/

[final osprey]

I think Graves/Apollo might be more of a bisexual ship? than a straight one

[finite grotto]

if you are viktor into a vindicta can you do liek anything other then to ask for a swap and try not to feed her early?

[warm sonnet]

Outside of staying alive and making sure you're getting your farming rotations down, yeah

It also depends on your lane-partner and how well the Vindicta maintains distance

[somber creek]

I do feel like if Doorman ult is this punishing now, you should be cleansed while you're in the hotel

[astral lava]

double jump and shoot lightning at her

[finite grotto]

sadly you could say she

snowballed abit

i palyed liek shti aswell xd

[astral lava]

use the ancient technique of running it down mid

[torn gulch]

Try to get prio and roam would probably be best option

[warm sonnet]

First item Phantom Strike

[agile void]

Mo and krill moment

I see a vindicta starting shit

Im dedicating that ult to her ass

[warm sonnet]

The bird's natural predator

The mole

[random urchin]

No debuff remover so you know nobody was building knockdown to get her lol

[finite patrol]

https://bsky.app/profile/loverseyes.bsky.social

Krizzia 🩸 (@loverseyes.bsky.social)

for art only: #draws ✦ please commission meee: https://ko-fi.com/l0verseyes/commissions

Bluesky

[magic summit]

The ideal engagement is pop ult and either intend to chase with cloak or escape. The difficult part is doing damage with your abilities while not dying since you are incredibly squishy, barrage leaves you vulnerable and your damage tools are your escape tools

If you have trouble surviving I recommend ethereal shift and warp stone

[lavish grove]

Chat, I think I hate laning mid in this game

Because at my current elo, if one of my teammates ever loses an early guardian

The entire enemy team decides to rotate mid and start the eternity fight

[astral lava]

dont worry they'll do that no matter the guardian or lane

[lavish grove]

Yah but when I’m in a side lane the only worry I have is mid falling early

When I’m in mid I have to worry about both lanes falling early

Also in my experience people are way more likely to rotate mid then a side lane early on

[finite patrol]

probably a bit easier now that you can use stamina during barrage no?

[vast sandal]

Not the eternity fight dude

Yeah being mid lane means at around 10 minutes 5 people are showing up to kill your guardian and push into your walker

[lavish grove]

The second I notice people are routinely in mid and no walkers are being taken

I immediately rotate to a side lane

And start farming

I refuse to engage with the eternity fight anymore

[vast sandal]

I need to stop playing assassins at this ELO bracket tbh because if I’m Calico I can’t really contribute a lot farming compared to actually doing my job and cracking skulls midgame, but midgame at Arcanist ELO nothing worth fighting over is being fought over

And the fights are insane slogs that are best avoided

[lavish grove]

It’s why I’m glad I tend to fight late game carries

Because then for me farming a side lane all game means I’m just getting to my win condition quicker

[vast sandal]

Like yeah I went 26/5 but my team never got any objectives because they were too busy in the Eternafight getting none souls

[magic summit]

That and some other things make it easier now. But you are still incredibly squishy

[vast sandal]

Someone needs to sit the playerbase down and explain that being in teamfight hell means you LOSE souls, not gain them

[magic summit]

You have the same health pool as Grey Talon but with negative resists

[lavish grove]

No no but trust me… surely winning this team fight will get us mid Walker

[magic summit]

And an infernus needs not a lot of time to set you on fire and kill you immediately

[vast sandal]

Even if it got us pushed up to mid walker, would that MATTER

Two people can defend mid against four if you’re playing under walker

[warm sonnet]

If the two people have the right abilities, probably

[vast sandal]

Okay yeah if it’s Pocket and Drifter that is a hard defense

Bebop and Paradox can do it

[warm sonnet]

Ye, it's about knowing who should defend while others push

[vast sandal]

New Paradox can actually defend against any number of people on lane, it’s absurd

[lavish grove]

Is pocket bad at defending lane?

[vast sandal]

Pocket is OK at defending lane if their ult’s up

[lavish grove]

A single cloak can kill a wave and a single case can delay a jumping before Walker slam

[vast sandal]

Since you can just dive their death ball, Affliction, now a walker slam could cost you your life

And Cloak back under walker Now What, Assholes

[warm sonnet]

But Pocket has to put themselves in there, which is riskier than say Paige or Parrotbox

(for peak fighting)

[lavish grove]

I guess that’s true

[vast sandal]

But Pocket is still a fragile enby in a world of Pair A Socks and Dynamos who can just say YOU SHALL NOT PASS

[warm sonnet]

And the everpresent Slowing Hex/Silence Wave can make they/them weep/sob

[late hare]

How do you build Paradox right now anyway? You still mostly build for gun?

I know she got a fair bit of tuning in the most recent patches

[vast sandal]

nuclear grenades

[late hare]

really want to play her but my M1 aim is questionable

[vast sandal]

aim is good early but late you're just chuckin' nukes

starting to feel bad for Apollo players who I watched pop off midgame and then get stranded lategame because their team could not follow through on the success

[merry verge]

Don't feel bad for the priviledged laning phase of the nepo baby

[vast sandal]

see I'm playing the priveleged midgame of the contract killer

and then hitting lategame and going "damn"

"my team didn't get objectives for shit and now we gon' lose"

[merry verge]

It's a metaphor for him peaking in high school

[vivid nimbus]

Her 3 and 4 are both aim reliant, they’re a bit forgiving compared to M1s but not like throwing a circle on the ground

[late hare]

right, I do not land a lot of Paradox ults

[vivid nimbus]

The ults are a bit easier if you hit them while being slowed by carbine or while something else stun/immobilizes them

[rich grove]

they should be largely free if you hit 3 (up to a distance)

hitting 3 is sort of the problem

[agile void]

there is also the fact that swap is really small range

its what?

20? 30 meters?

[lavish shale]

25m base

+13 at t2

[vivid nimbus]

Though Paradox also gets expansion often

Greater expansion and a few support items (eg. knockdown, vortex web, rescue beam) easily hits +50%

[feral umbra]

just saw the patch notes and Wraith now has mini lash ult?!

[granite heath]

it's Rubick's Telekinesis smh my head

[finite patrol]

its Squelz's Toss obviously

[maiden ledge]

it's just some uppies

[lavish grove]

Chat, what do the lifestrike changes mean exactly?

I can’t really tell from the patch notes

Is it better, worse, better and worse based on the situation?

[frail jasper]

It's less effective iirc

[lavish grove]

I see

[frail jasper]

• Lifestrike: Heal on melee hit reduced from 160 to 100 + 1.5/boon

• Lifestrike: Heal on melee hit percentage reduced from 50% to 30% + 0.5%/boon

Yeah it's reduced effectiveness early but scales with boons now

[lavish grove]

I see

[frail jasper]

Even at max boons it's still worse though cuz it caps at 35 (so 100+52.5 and 30%+17.5%)

[lavish grove]

Ah man

[lavish shale]

it's worse early, and caps out at slightly below previous levels still

[magic summit]

I understand that it was bought just for a lot of early sustain but am hoping they buff it

Cause yeah lifestrike is pretty crucial for not dying instantly on a melee build late game

[vivid nimbus]

@ivory reef https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rp0326/it_really_does_feel_like_it/

[gray otter]

ive become convinced that opening with paige 1 instead of 2 and buying extra charge first item is just correct

[vivid nimbus]

Odd, rxddit not working

[rich grove]

nonbinary erasure

[gray otter]

lets me actually apply pressure in lane

[vivid nimbus]

I mean, in lategame it's like 90-95% as much healing as before

[rich grove]

paige 2 isn't so great at letting you apply pressure but if your teammate deals damage to the opponent and the opponent deals no damage to them

i feel like that is pressure

i understand that in pugs your laner is statistically likely to be a burger, though

[vivid nimbus]

In pugs I have a lot of laners go ham with or without my support so being able to slap shield on them when they decide to do so is a big help

[gray otter]

i mostly play with a bunch of friends, the main problem is that if bad things happen ime the shield isnt enough to make the difference

mostly tho i just want to land intimidatingly high damage bookwyrms

[stable forum]

aaaa

this build works though

silver; i've been feeling the nerfs.

[vast sandal]

I don’t want Silver ult to be “just run at the entire enemy team” but I also don’t want it to be the instant fight loser

[stable forum]

the disarm is really strong

you just raw counter several characters

[vivid nimbus]

Is Blood Tribute in the right category?

[stable forum]

yes!

the defensives / offensives are based on if they work against cc

or if they let you kill people

blood tribute works against cc!

[vivid nimbus]

Oh, getting it for debuf resist? Huh

[stable forum]

yeaa

the other things are good too

but it's got 40% debuff resist on it, so it goes in the defensives category

colossus has 0% debuff resist on it, so it goes in the offensives category

(I know this is weird, but I kept trying to buy colossus as a defensive item and it kept not working)

[rich grove]

blood tribute is an amazing anti-cc option and now that it doesn't self-spirit burn I am so scared of this fucking item

[stable forum]

yeaa

it not having healing reduction any more is A Choice

[rich grove]

I've seen armlet toggling used to great effect on Haze before the patches since she was in the sweet spot of takes very short engagements + loves all the stats of the active

[stable forum]

yeaa

idk how true that is now though?

[rich grove]

I mean I don't know what Haze as a character does anymore after the everything

but on tanks the item just seems crazy

not even necessarily tanks but lifestealers, I should say

[stable forum]

yeaa

Silver's got a bunch of healing.

[rich grove]

Infern I bet would go batshit with it

pop it just to ignite people and toggle off once you don't need the fire rate, use the dbr to shorten slowhex

you buy a bunch of lifesteal so you're all set

[stable forum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281742836878020722/1480698926259765311/6897EE1.MP4?ex=69b09fd6&is=69af4e56&hm=cbf1feb07be0895a5e76278e9d52ae90ec124d2090f305226e234ad13b4562ba&

[frail jasper]

just finished a game of drifter into warden/venator who both bought slowing bullets first item

horrible experience, would not recommend

[vast sandal]

Slowing bullets seems like a bunch better buy for M1 carry types now that it builds into something and that something doesn’t suck

[vivid nimbus]

Damn the wiki doesn't say how much damage to charge pain battery

Just contemplating a gunVictor build for funnies

[stable forum]

idk if weighted shots is good

[vivid nimbus]

Blood tribute, escalating resilience, healing tempo, quicksilver reload, toxic bullets, fleetfoot, vamp burst, enduring speed, and 4 situational items?

[lavish shale]

it's pretty good I think

good amount of damage and debuff resist

[stable forum]

i think it's for the theoretical 'you will not pass' tanky character

but idk if that's ever a thing that happens? I guess it is?

[vivid nimbus]

Spikes:
Gun: Ext mag, monster rounds, one of those 3200s
Vit: Heal boost, end speed, bullet lifesteal
Spirit: Quicksilver, some 3200?? (rapid recharge, disarming, silence, knockdown?)

Hollow point and BRS also pop out at me

[astral lava]

god what did they Do to infernus

like yeah he's got leech i still dont think he should be dong so much damage he outheals a 1v2 with inhib and toxic bullets on him

in general this patch seems to mostly be about boosting Everyone's damage mostly. which is weird

[vivid nimbus]

Remember inhib also reduces how much damage you're doing to him

[astral lava]

it's outgoing damage not incoming damage

Unless im misunderstanding something

[finite patrol]

I think they misread

[lavish grove]

Yah inhibitor only decreases the enemy’s damage I pretty sure

[errant sphinx]

Slowing bullets is good on yamato but idk if the upgrade is worth it

[vivid nimbus]

Oh when I read "with inhib and toxic bullets on him" I assumed those were items he had bought

Whoops

[somber creek]

https://youtu.be/FYNfF_PRulU?si=AQTNRxcg9pjPhapm

[lavish grove]

Chat, are there any characters who run arcane surge?

I feel like it’s way less comment then kinetic or stamina mastery

[vivid nimbus]

The thing about it is that it only applies to one ability at a time

[finite patrol]

I get it on kevin

will consider it again on hybrid warden

[vast sandal]

I should really stick with the characters I'm good at

[finite grotto]

uh

ok

[twilit roost]

Theyre about to pop off in 5 minutes

[rich grove]

meet potentialcarry

[finite grotto]

good news! I out carried her hehe

was one of the most enjoyable games i have played tho

no one in the team was negative, perma vc comms

[vivid nimbus]

Oh one of those "stridently refuses to buy any defense item" players

Vampiric Burst does not count

[rich grove]

Satanic is a defensive item

[frail jasper]

It is less common. It's mostly important for characters who have single important duration-based abilities. Graves is one example because it makes her tombstone better, but at the same time she also wants Stamina Mastery for the mobility

Viscous focusing around Goo Ball can like it since you dash jump -> ball for more duration/size

[finite grotto]

oh Salad I used your tech!

game prior i knocked a greytalon out of the sky with a skypunch

good shit

[frail jasper]

the heavenly fist smites another birdperson

[rich grove]

arcane surge on dynamo ult

[agile rune]

Believe it scales with boons

[frail jasper]

yeah dynamo ult

[rich grove]

it is maybe The dynamo item

[vivid nimbus]

That would track

[rich grove]

stomp icd is high enough to surge multiple charges, and back when range scaled with spirit, you scaled it doubly

[vivid nimbus]

Okay yeah black hole likes power, duration, and range, and is absolutely big enough impact to be worth spending stamina on

[rich grove]

and because of how supremely janky stomp collision is you could nuke people at ridiculous ranges and around corners

[frail jasper]

other big-ulters can use it too, seven for example

[rich grove]

in my onion seven ult is bad enough at the timings arcane surge is relevant that you should not ever pick it up for ult

[frail jasper]

correct

[rich grove]

just an awful ability until 5AP + boundless

[frail jasper]

but the principle is there

[stable forum]

I keep looking at it on Silver and Warden

[rich grove]

on Warden it fucks

[stable forum]

but it keeps not being correct

[rich grove]

just cause of ult

[vivid nimbus]

Arcane surge for ult was meta on Graves's for her initial release, but people shifted to on-hit builds instead

[stable forum]

surge is nice for duration, yeaa

[rich grove]

but I am seriously fucking considering it with his root as well

now that it got omegabuffs

we'll see if pos4den is a thing...

[stable forum]

oh right it's good on warden's thing as well

I keep wanting to buy all the stamina items on warden but i did that before and it just didn't work

[agile rune]

I was buying arcane surge on drifter when I was playing him as ultbot

[frail jasper]

I tried spirit-ish drifter earlier, it felt horrible. This is because I laned against a Venator and Warden who both rushed Slowing Bullets, however.

[agile rune]

It is horrible

The stuff that scales off spirit is just simply way less impactful

[vast sandal]

what the fuck

how did I not earn MVP

[vivid nimbus]

CC score? IDK

[agile rune]

Anti cat bias in the algo

[finite patrol]

doesnt actual satanic give giga hp tho

i guess they change recipes so often theres a good chance its not still built out of the secret shop strength item

reaver?

[rich grove]

6.4k vitality spike #trusttheprocess

[finite patrol]

huh the 4.8k spike gives 525 and thats about the same as satanics 550

curious

[stable forum]

I didn't notice this before but Mauling Leap rank 3 is 20% bullet resist shred???
silver has between 18 and 40% bullet resist shred usually when tf'd?

[astral lava]

deeply embarrassing to lose to a joke build

....i thought they made it so you cant solo mid like, ages ago

[lavish shale]

You still can with enough DPS

[astral lava]

i was the mo and krill defender before this patch. i thought they werent as bad as everyone complained about. now they're a turbo assassin for some reason and deserve death

but yeah just very annoying to lose to a joke build. gun rem

ughhh i should have sold healing nova for curse im a moron lol

as soon as my active slots fill up i just forget about being able to change them

[terse aspen]

I have played 2 games as Ivy since the big update, and both of them ran over 50 minutes

I guess this is my curse now: Ivy games can never be short again

[final osprey]

I feel like in all my games this patch a calico just runs away with it

[astral lava]

she's crazy rn

[agile rune]

I've not been having my games catburgled

[astral lava]

I havent actually had one in any games but I am hearing reports of crazy shit

[final osprey]

She got buffs to her kit, whilst also buffing her econ

[agile void]

reminder that slowing hex kills her

like, 3 out of 4 of her skills are disabled

[agile rune]

also any sources of silence

[agile void]

if she gets hit she has to cleanse it, counterspell it or waste ult iframing it

and is not really ideal to start the burst with ult

[final osprey]

I was more complaining about having her on my team and feeling like none of us were really contributing much other than holding people down long enough for her to come and kill them.

[warm sonnet]

Thankfully nobody would ever counter MY character

[agile void]

because silver got her legs broken?

[agile rune]

I don't counter silver now, I just kill her

[warm sonnet]

It's common knowledge that nobody ever punishes me for not buying defensive items, so I don't worry about it

Unrelated, I've been on a losing streak and I don't know why

[final osprey]

Buy more damage. You must kill the enemy faster

[warm sonnet]

Of course!

Silly me

[agile rune]

consider bending your team to move at your will

[agile void]

https://youtu.be/05QdpqgWqgo

I was not expecting a 30 minute guide on the mole man

[agile rune]

could've just asked gran, iirc he's a sewer dweller player

[final osprey]

I'm also a big sewer dweller but I'm super mid and this patch is kicking my ass

[agile rune]

aren't M&K really good this patch?

that's been my experience at least

[final osprey]

Everyone deals so much and so little damage now that I don't know who I can or cant fight a lot of the time

[agile void]

MnK can now trigger tankbuster off of scorn

[final osprey]

Like, I think I'm entering a skirmish and then suddenly I've been ding dong ditched to death

[agile void]

if you know how scorn is

its a big fucking deal

it means we can now get % current health heals if we target the tank

[agile rune]

ye I know

scorn has always been the most important part of the kit

[agile void]

I would argue is both ult and burrow

as burrow is a great movement tool outside the fact you cant move through uneven terrain

[agile rune]

scorn has such impact on a team fight in a way those two do not

[final osprey]

2 is just like, damage which isnt really Mo's job neccicerally.

Whilst his ult and scorn are really important to his Role in a fight. Which is, staying alive and getting picks

[agile void]

mmm, maybe before when we had thd old bases

but now I feel the bases are too big to catch a lot of people with scorn

also building too much spirit is a thing that can happen, as mos secondary job is still tanking to some degree

[astral lava]

can truly just kill people eith focus lens and ult though perhaps a small waste

[agile void]

"You can buffer a heavy melee to use it while in burrow at the start"

ok that is something new

[lavish grove]

It is sorta frustrating discussing this game’s balance online sometimes

Because even if a character or item is a problem and should probably be changed

I just get told I’m not counter buying enough and that’s the end of the discussion

Even if the character is still a problem despite counter buying

[agile void]

to be fair the patch changed so much there is still opinions forming around

not saying you are wrong, Im just mentioning that currently there is some knee jerk reactions to a lot of stuff

I see people whining more about wraith and her buffed cards for examole

[lavish grove]

I mean for sure yah

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rpaczl/2s_cart_stun_gulag_gulag_gulag_kart_kart_10s/

case in point

Oh jump academy for deadlock

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rpk4q1/i_made_a_beginnerfriendly_jumping_map/

Cant believe Drifter is a redditor

[lavish grove]

No this is reasonable

But for real

Doorman is an annoying case because like, yah he does have counter items

Silence wave, stamina mastery, unstoppable, counterspell

That doesn’t mean he’s not super strong though

[ivory reef]

The problem, to me, is the question of what people get out of discussions about the game being unbalanced

Like it's usually socially toxic and there's nothing we can directly say to each other in a space like this that will meaningfully reach the devs or whatever

There's no real value in determining the exact points where thing we like sucks

[lavish grove]

I mean, I will say just individually I want to talk about the state of the game

It’s a game I play a lot, I wanna discuss it with people

[ivory reef]

That's not a good enough reason, bluntly

Here, let me find something

[lavish grove]

I don’t really care if I’m screaming into the void because I talk about for the sake of talking about it with people who also want to talk about it

[ivory reef]

I don't think there are never reasons to talk about stuff but I really really do want people in pnet to stop and think extremely deliberately about what they want to accomplish, emotionally or socially or whatever, by posting whatever or talking about whatever

[ivory reef]

This is not structurally different from "I don't care, I just wanna post the stuff on Twitter that makes me mad because I'm on Twitter and it's making me mad and I want to find the other people here who are also mad"

Like every nerd space in pnet is full of people road rage posting

Etc etc

Oh hey lmao deadlock came up

[lavish grove]

I will keep that in mind then in the future

[ivory reef]

<3 thanks magma

I appreciate it

I do think this is just something I need to train everyone on a bit I think everyone is doing their best here but there are some social behaviors that people haven't fully intuitively mapped yet

I think the most important stuff is like, being thoughtful about what you're trying to accomplish or get. Maybe you want advice. Maybe you want to reassure someone - that happens too

Like sometimes I wanna step in and go "hey heads up I think the consensus is that character X is just very strong right now so if you're beating yourself up for losing against them hang in there it's not you, you're probably doing okay"

Maybe you have a direct line to the devs and want to structure feedback. Very common with indie games with a solo dev and stuff

[agile void]

main reason why I pointed out that the patch was still very new

[ivory reef]

But if you don't really have a reason beyond "I'm just kinda frustrated and damn I wanna talk about that" then stop and think about it

[agile void]

I imagined in dota these kinds of situation happen a fair bit whenever a patch finally comes around

[ivory reef]

Maybe you're better off doing that with friends in a private space or something

Like a problem with public spaces is you have basically infinite people lurking and listening and the vibes can hit them in ways you didn't intend

I'm much more, like, petty and complainy in my group chats. I think I have it sorted as a flow that's ultimately healthy

But it's not energy I should bring here

[lavish grove]

That’s fair yah

[ivory reef]

Anyway good talk

I'm gonna need to give versions of this in like ten threads this year

[agile void]

i will proceed to move the conversation with one of the subreddits meme
https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rp3xor/i_think_its_all_of_the_above/

[lavish grove]

Biblical greed

The amount of times I’ve seen enemy Rems eat every sinners on the map and then die in a team fight right after is, concerning

Good for my team though

[plain furnace]

so this means Redgies is a redditor then

[plain furnace]

It's Rem

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rpkf0h/bunny_itani_lo_sahn/

vicious creature

[finite grotto]

wasnt scared once during this trust

[stable forum]

you should add Carpet to this list!

carpet very funny vs doorman

...i should buy magic carpet on silver...

[echo viper]

Whilst you'll get people expressing various frustrations at times, with Dota 2 in my experience at least the focus with patches is primarily that the big ones are an event in their own right, and subsequently also shake things up. After all part of the aim with a new patch is to introduce change to the game to vary things up.

There's some nuances which differentiates being interested in what's mechanically changed versus wanting to largely express gripes, but the quintessential example of the Dota 2 community's relationship with patches is probably this old video: https://youtu.be/EY74eKw0FgI

Whilst I don't watch his patch analyses much anymore, because uhm I don't have the time, purge does have a rather historical influence there.

[agile void]

9 Fucking hours video

Holy

[echo viper]

Think it's his longest one, which if you know how impactful 7.00 was makes sense.

[agile void]

I think that was the one that introduced the build paths, right?

like every skill kind of having different buffs you can choose from

[earnest verge]

right, with exceptions, it generally takes at least weeks for the complaints to really start as people find some kind of strong meta pick or whatever

though I get the vague impression that Monkey King's release was a shitshow and he was genuinely overpowered or such

[echo viper]

Talents, map changes, the source 2 engine, new items, the first Dota 2 exclusive hero (Monkey King), bounty runes I think, and god so much else.

I think 7.00 was the first game "released" by valve with source 2.0, wasn't it?

[agile void]

oh so it was the "now Dota can be its own game" patch

[echo viper]

No it already was

This made it into a new game

[agile void]

I mean in the sense of finally making a new hero rather than porting old ones

[echo viper]

There's still a community for 6.87c, the last pre-7.00 patch, but it's fairly small I think.

[echo viper]

Admittedly the changes they'd made over the years since release meant that Dota 2 became a new game time and time again. Maybe not to the same extent, but that was in part the intent behind the patches and why they were viewed as events which shook things up.

[echo viper]

Oh god he was busted yeah

I was young but he was definitely overtuned haha, but also very fun to play.

[agile void]

I wonder how its our monkey king rep going to be like

or how our midboss is going to be called since Nashor and Roshan

[echo viper]

Surprisingly enough it's a lemur this time

[agile void]

there is jokes about making midboss a girl and call it "Sharon"

[finite patrol]

the buff you get is called Charon's Fee because Sharon is Charon

[echo viper]

But yeah, much as patches are a cycle since eventually folk tend to want to shake things up (which is also why there's no such thing as an "ideal" balance for Dota 2, since changes in the meta is the point), I do believe you need to understand why Purge's patch analyses were/are so popular in order to understand the community's relationship with the patches.

[finite patrol]

I definitely think there's room to discuss potential nerfs/buffs/reworks or what you think should change in the game. That can be very interesting some times! But often this kind of discussion less than a week after the patch drops is very hyperbolic and knee jerk.

Let yourself cook.

[warm sonnet]

Its just Charon from Hades. You will be smacked with an oar.

[finite patrol]

oughh I still need to finish hades 2

[echo viper]

Theorycrafting and such is fun, but yeah do enjoy messing around with things.

[finite patrol]

I probably suck at it by now

[warm sonnet]

Then you can grow again

Only the dead cannot learn

[finite patrol]

im too busy playing slay rn anyhow

I havent even touched the new deadlock patch

Wednesday night probably gonna be the first time I played since last patch

[agile void]

you mentioned wednesday reminded me of DFN

I wonder what will happen there, would be the first dfn since patch dropped in friday

[echo viper]

One of the things that surprised me a little now that I've slowly begun looking into Deadlock (waiting for some RAM still, which ugh ;p), was that the patch notes aren't yet as flamboyant as Dota's. It's understandable since it's still in beta, but so far it's closer to CS2 I've found.

It does highlight how Dota 2's position is somewhat unique since patches together with TI are some of its primary PR, and thus where they put their energy. Some games have seasons, Dota has patches (and diretide).

[vivid nimbus]

There was a big tourney this weekend right after the patch dropped

[agile void]

... oh yeah

freakfest, was it called?

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah. Melee Creeps was the top seeded team and got cooked in draft in… I think it was the semi-finals

Did not contest MnK, Wraith, or Ivy and the other team ran with it

[agile void]

bruh

mnk I can understand but wraith and Ivy?

those 2 besides doorman arguably got the highest buffs in this patch

I didnt knew these were a thing

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rp5er4/made_a_player_chart_for_fun_inspiration_from/

[finite grotto]

you can still carry the urn as cat as calico??

[finite patrol]

wraith has been considered pretty bad for a while in pros so I understand the hesitancy but Ivy is pretty obvious haha

[finite patrol]

thats cute

[lavish grove]

I don’t believe so no

[hallow zenith]

Tried it in Explore NYC and it worked

Carrying urn as cat, that is

[finite grotto]

ye i wass about to say she did it in my game

[gray otter]

ok ive tried extra charge first item on paige a bunch

yeah its good

[autumn field]

praying internally for another sword user except this one fires wind blades or something and has a melee hitbox because big fucking sword

[late hare]

put them at Graves range

[worldly dirge]

I love how much of a menace viscous because because his 3 does heavy melee now fully upgraded, i think he is becoming my main and i suspect im one tricking

[vivid nimbus]

Eventually you will run into people who will buy rebuttal and parry it

(They're also parry it without rebuttal, but rebuttal makes the parries hurt)

[final osprey]

His 3 has always done heavy melee damage when fully upgraded. It now works with stuff like close range though

[worldly dirge]

They can try to parry but doing so in the middle of a team fight might get them killed, also i spam like 3 of them in 3 seconds and they will basically be in 1 space if they do that

Also the gauntlets allow you to stun someone if you heavy melee 3 times, i have stunned quite a few people lmao

Each punch does like 700 damage late game and i can spam 1 per second and i have 4 of them, to say the least they hate me

Also the cube is very funny

I have saved quite a few people with it

Viscous is quite hard to punish, he can just use his ult and roll away

And he can also use his abilities while ulting so i stun with ult then fist

[finite grotto]

ye but if they buy it first item in lane you can be rather hard negated

happened to me a couple games ago :c

[mint latch]

Now that I think about it, Vyper mistaking Paige as the same Paige from the club probably implies Vyper finds Paige somewhat attractive

[finite grotto]

Cant stop da lash!

[short quiver]

Cinnamon*

[lavish grove]

Chat, has McGinnis always summoned turrets via her wall?

Or is that a change from the new patch?

[open nova]

Nope that’s a new compensatory buff from the wall being breakable

[lavish grove]

Ah ok

Wait walls are breakable now?

[vivid nimbus]

Two heavy melees per segment

[open nova]

Yep, double heavy melee

[late hare]

two heavies, just like graves headstone

[lavish grove]

Ohhhh

[vivid nimbus]

(You can also hit multiple segments with a heavy melee)

[late hare]

indirectly another viscous buff

[lavish shale]

new from the last patch

it used to stun if you hit people with the wall

[late hare]

for like .5 seconds lmao

[vivid nimbus]

Still enough to interrupt

[agile void]

yeah if you were versus a dynamo or a bebop, you liked that wall

[stable forum]

they should add this to doorman's door

one heavy melee per door (they're double-doors so it'd be two to close fully)

[final osprey]

That would add interesting counterplay to doorman but it'd make me sad when I fail to save my friends

[vast sandal]

alright I think I've mentally adjusted to the golden goose egg trophy hunter first strat

if my lane partner is going to bet everything on red in hopes of drastically accelerating their early-midgame powerspike and have absolutely no itemization power in lane, I just need to grit my teeth and make sure we don't lose lane until the ten minute mark

[finite patrol]

this post is frickin toxic

[frail jasper]

While you should always be playing to win the lane, sometimes you do just have to play to not lose too hard :(

[somber creek]

I dont think being able to break people out of the hotel is a bad idea tbh

[stable forum]

...oh, no, not the hotel

specifically the door

[vivid nimbus]

They should add "two heavy melees to break" to Viscous cube >:3

[stable forum]

yes

that would be funny

because viscous cube can be instantaneously cancelled into a parry

[frail jasper]

I love every time I cube and someone (sometimes multiple someones) thinks they should immediately heavy melee the cube

I don't understand what makes them do this but i WILL cancel out to parry and kill them

[somber creek]

Its to push him into a worse position

[rich grove]

800 yen hero

[finite grotto]

[vast sandal]

So cheap!

[finite grotto]

the 8k dmg haze ahh

[rich grove]

i complain about power slash but imagine if that shit wallstuck you at max charge

[vast sandal]

they're selling Extra Stamina at the shop for 230 yen

[somber creek]

Power slash gets Venator shotgun knockback

[spring tundra]

Yo I’m fuckin feeling vindicta now
She becomes a right monster deeper into a match

I still don’t really think I get how to use the crows

But I can at least hit people with them now

[frail jasper]

Yamato Power Slash: T3 changed to apply apollo's judgement cut curse effect, then automatically uninstalls the target's deadlock

[rich grove]

tbh crows don't really have a specific use you just spam them off cd at whichever moron is around

they just do damage and shred

just a generic spell

[frail jasper]

You use them to Quicksilver Reload

[woeful kiln]

Why does this remind of the mod of Ultrakill that if you die it would shut down and boot up Overwatch

[spring tundra]

Alright cool lol

Also useful for getting people into Kill With Snipe Range I guess

[rich grove]

dont they have like 13s cd or sth with the 2ap cdr upgrade

[spring tundra]

It’s p short

[rich grove]

yeah you just chuck that shit

I guess focus tanks because of the shred

[spring tundra]

Yeah now you just throw it in the vague direction of a team fight

[rich grove]

but because it's now a shotgun

yeah lol

youre clipping everyone

[spring tundra]

Before it was uh

Idk if you’ve ever tried to land a slow, non tracking projectile

In this game before

But it’s hard

That crow wasn’t hitting shit

Also I got in a street brawl with a seven who had enhanced aoe and trans cooldown

Those electric balls were the size of the fucking lane

[rich grove]

crow was fine but clipping random creeps was annoying

the bounce behavior also basically never worked right

[somber creek]

Now that there's a 4 second buffer on kill rewards

Stocking up on spirit burn to tick down low health enemies could be a good use for it

[mild flume]

Im pretty decent but the 30 min video makers are probably better haha and im still figuring out the patch but cheers

Ill def give it a watch

[lavish grove]

this character is very fun

[gray otter]

ok how do i install mods

is there like some sort of basemod

[finite grotto]

😌

Blade goes like woosh woosh

[random urchin]

Put mercurial magnum on it and it becomes a free reload+damage boost

[spring tundra]

… ohhhh

[vivid nimbus]

I think a lot of people use Deadlock Mod Manager

[finite grotto]

i am playing vs a splitshot rico calico

and i legit cannot see anything on my screen

[vestal hearth]

Like Reinhardt charge?

[vast sandal]

or Venator gutshot, or Abrams charge which is almost identical to Reinhart rocket charge

[vivid nimbus]

BTW did people hear about the splitshot Holliday bug? (AIUI fixed)

Every split bullet that hits the barrel would proc the full barrel damage

So people were getting deleted from basically being hit with 5 barrels at once

[vivid nimbus]

Honestly makes it even more of a trap item

[worldly dirge]

you will get your investment back and if you running a character that doesnt scale allot with souls like page, rem or mo and krill you will be fine

[vivid nimbus]

I think if you don't scale well with souls then you don't benefit from the payoff and just wanna be strong early

[finite patrol]

victor gets a brooding bonus (dark and handsome) and mcginnis does too (mother of objects)

[finite grotto]

I was playing vs a splitshot gun calico and i legit could not see my screen due to all the bullets while active and also lucky shot

[agile void]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/658384

I dont know why people are so obsessed with modding umas into deadlock

[finite patrol]

because people are obsessed with umas

[gray otter]

i think the models are publically available

so its easy

[astral lava]

idk what it is. in dota it's pretty relatively easy to finish a game before hypercarries come online. it's next to impossible in deadlock

*as a player of nnormal skill

despite like every change in this patch seemingly making games go Shorter i've consistently had 50 minute games since this patch. miserable lol

[agile rune]

What’s a hyper carry in deadlock

[agile rune]

I think of those, only rem can actually benefit from it and that’s only because a lot of his econ doesn’t come from damage

-10% is massive penalty

If it was just the souls cost, maybe

[frail jasper]

seven when they farm for 30 minutes then show up and wipe the entire team by themselves

[vivid nimbus]

Hyper carry is a term that came from other mobas about carriers that take longer to come online but hit even harder once they are online

Seven, Wraith, and Vyper are probably the examples RN

[finite grotto]

Is vyper consider a hyper carry? I feel like she is more of a lane bully and mid game but falls off pretty when she doesn't snowball but I could deffo be wrong about that

[vivid nimbus]

Another balance patch, medium-sized: https://forums.playdeadlock.com/threads/03-06-2026-update.114328/post-220287

[finite grotto]

Viktor is prob a good example as well although hyper carry in other mobas usually refers to a ranged carry

[vivid nimbus]

Another Goose Egg buff

[finite grotto]

Damm they want that goose egg poppin

Wow just an overall tankyness buff for everyone

[astral lava]

Viktor definitely

And dota's got melee hyper carries!

[finite grotto]

Cool didn't know that

Yamato not touched yay

[vivid nimbus]

Hmm, still no changes for the 6 untouched ones. Noted

(I'm counting Bebop as untouched)

[whole moon]

hello i don't know what the fuck im doing but i do love viktor. i love pressing 3 and running at the enemy team with 0 regard for anything else

still have not actually played the main mode bc Scawy

[astral lava]

who are the untouched ones (bebop counts)

[vivid nimbus]

I also love VIctor

[astral lava]

victor is a fun guy

the grey gentleman

[whole moon]

victor is wonderful i love them. very good. much easier than mina who is perfect and gorgeous and i need to get better at

[vivid nimbus]

Bebop, Grey Talon, Holliday, Sinclair, Venator, and Vyper got no changes Friday, or since

[whole moon]

gentlethem from what i can tell!!

at least if the pronouns in their little backstory are proper

[astral lava]

Holliday got her brief time as a nuclear bomb they didn't plan on it but it happened

[whole moon]

which is cute i like that

[whole moon]

hiiii tech hiiii i don't know how to moba. but i do know how to deathmatch.

so street brawl has been nice

[astral lava]

he's got a lot of Hes in there. the theys are [plural, unclear subject]

[whole moon]

my beeee you can tell im not all in yet ahhaah

gotta!! learn!! more!!

[vivid nimbus]

IDK how to describe my Victor style, it's more cautious than a lot of Victors I see

[astral lava]

my style of all characters is more cautious than average because i never know when to go in

[vivid nimbus]

I also see the Victor nerfs and except for Jumpstart they seem pretty fair, that one I'm undecided on

[whole moon]

im only a shithead when my ult is up

[gray otter]

loving playing spirit paige

i love chucking a bookwyrm into a teamfight and doing half of like 3 different enemies' hp bars in the blink of an eye

[lavish shale]

noooo, not the Victor nerfs ;-;

probably fair though

[gray otter]

i genuinely dont see a reason not to build a truckload of spirit items on paige

your shields are better, theres still room in the build for divine barrier and other counter items, and you hit like a truck

[lavish shale]

Spirit Paige is good

you just also wanna be the one getting all the counter items mostly

since you can more easily afford to

[gray otter]

makes sense yeah

ive found that generally when i need more damage ill have enough for more damage and when i need counter items ill have enough for counter items

the dumbest thing ive ever seen in a paige build guide was someone recommending against mystic vulnerability/escalating exposure because "you arent hitting people with spirit damage"

i think the guy who made that build must just have never used her 1

[rich grove]

in fairness

just getting randomly fucked by that ability happens

[gray otter]

what like it not going where you aimed it?

or like it deleting half your healthbar instantly

[vivid nimbus]

Sometimes the wyrm goes in whatever direction it feels like after the initial spot

[rich grove]

where it goes where I aimed it has nothing to do with whether or not it proceeds to travel the direction you want it to

[gray otter]

yeah

[rich grove]

that is in gods hands

[gray otter]

theyre sentient

ive found that generally the answer is "dont point them into walls and theyll travel forward"

sometimes that isnt enough though

but yeah i love stacking a shitload of range and making a giant zone of green

[vivid nimbus]

I think it's deterministic but that's no guarantee it doesn't bounce on some tiny bit of terrain you didn't think about

[gray otter]

yeah

really you just want to hit with the initial landing hitbox tho

that's very consistent

oh the other trick is that once you have rapid recharge you have so many bookwyrms that you can afford to miss a couple every now and then

[finite patrol]

the health buffs are kinda yuge???

[finite grotto]

Ye I am surprised at durabilty up for everyone

[glass flicker]

Moseph and Krilliam

[finite patrol]

I'm not really. they buffed a ton of heroes in the major patch and so TTK probably went down a bit.

[agile rune]

Tldr?

[vivid nimbus]

TLDR I guess is S-tiers got nerfed, other heroes got adjustments to their recent changes

And everyone got a little more health

[agile rune]

No infernos changes is a shock

[merry verge]

Bawh, m'Bellnukes

Back to 2.7 if you nail it though

[frail jasper]

the massive losing streak continues

It is not fun to play drifter but not be allowd to drift

[agile rune]

Gotta remember, it’s all about Family

And in a street fight, the street always wins