Deadlock

[vast sandal]

"I guess that must be the scarabs?"

[somber creek]

I also dont think his kit fits his concept at all

[vast sandal]

oh also one final though on Warden

his gun goes CUNK CUNK CUNK

[dusky flume]

Shiv has such a funky vibe, so much that I'm tempted to try him out

[astral lava]

"This will protect us" - mirage using bubble shield

[vast sandal]

what a powerful sound effect

[vivid nimbus]

Also fire scarabs is so weird because it has charges but you gotta use them all at once

[jaunty garden]

Also only one charge can hit any given target

[somber creek]

His ult is the only thing that does and his entire rest of the kit is just what you give a guy to make sure people know hes Arabic

[ivory reef]

???

the fuck?

[vast sandal]

I didn't know combo meters were Arabic

[astral lava]

would love to know his actual name

[ivory reef]

I didn't know scarabs were arabic

famous egyptian mythical creature

[vast sandal]

is Dante secretly Arabic, the rumor come out

[ivory reef]

tornadoes: arabic?

[somber creek]

Its weird that he has them!

[ivory reef]

they didn't even call it haboob

[somber creek]

It doesnt fit!

[earnest verge]

it is a lot of random desert/north-african-themed stuff, but, like. that's where he's from. or at least where nashala is presumably from.

[somber creek]

Its what im saying

[ivory reef]

voy, like, you're complaining about his kit being arabic and also his kit not being arabic

and frankly it is veering on sounding racist

[jaunty garden]

The 3 is unique and really interesting to me. The 2 is just a strong ability AND very thematic to Djinn, the scarab is a little odd but like it's fine and it's an interesting ability even if it's just weird mechanically.

[somber creek]

Im complaining his kit doesnt fit him being a secret agent body guard

[astral lava]

technically we dont even actually know where exactly hes from besides "MENA"

[somber creek]

He just has a random assortment of abilities that dont fit his character as presented

[finite patrol]

they should remove one of his abilities entirely to represent the flavour of wyoming

[lavish grove]

16 wheelers?

[vast sandal]

second ult where a tornado picks up a 16 wheeler and hurls it at you

[earnest verge]

... I don't see how any of his abilities are particularly unfitting? Not anymoreso than you could complain about nearly any other character?

[vast sandal]

I do kinda agree that he's terminally lacking in bodyguard sauce for a guy who is a bodyguard

he cannot go GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT or anything

[vivid nimbus]

Scarabaeus sacer (the most famous species of scarab beetle) is also found in Western and Central Asia as well as Southern Europe, FYI

[lavish grove]

Also I do kinda agree with Voy that rn his abilities are just, vaguely North Africa/Middle East themed

[magic summit]

I think the only thing Mirage needs changed is scarabs

[lavish grove]

Not helped by yah us not knowing where he’s from besides that general region

[earnest verge]

yes but that's like, fine??

[magic summit]

Even if its good stat wise it just feels very boring

[jaunty garden]

Shrug I have a good friend who is Egyptian and super into the historical Djinn stories and thinks Mirage is awesome and is glad he exists, so for me that's all the justification Mirage needs.

[vivid nimbus]

I think they just don't have SFX punch, like the W:ET MP40 problem

[lavish grove]

That’s fair yah

[jaunty garden]

Yeah definitely needs an SFX pass.

[magic summit]

Unironically if they were just more noticeable that they were hitting people that might help

[jaunty garden]

Also I think it should be rebalanced to be able to hit the same target multiple times probably.

[vivid nimbus]

Also, for reference on said problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDxiuHdR_T4

[magic summit]

Cause you just sort of spam it while shooting and it make you win the fight

[jaunty garden]

IT's super unintuitive how it works both from the perspective of the Mirage player and the enemy

[finite patrol]

fire scarabs is a deeply unpleasant ability to use

[plain furnace]

I’d like to ask about the orientalism with Mirage in Deadlock and Rashid in Street Fighter.
But, it seems they’re too cool

[ivory reef]

he does literally teleport to any friend

[earnest verge]

it'd be a bit strange if he did

[vast sandal]

he does, his ult is that and it's a cool ability

[earnest verge]

Nashala is presumably way scarier than he is

just for, you know, no more than 48 minutes per day

[somber creek]

Djinn's mark is good tbh no notes

[magic summit]

You think Nashala hates how he dodges

[earnest verge]

it's the other 23 hours and 12 minutes of the day that's a problem, during which he only has to bodyguard a lamp

[vast sandal]

Djinn's Mark is a fucked up ability

[magic summit]

Dudes spinning constantly

[somber creek]

But Tornado and Scarab are just like

Im not sure what they want those abilities to be

[jaunty garden]

I mean, personally, everyone I know who is MENA who has expressed opinions about them thinks both are awesome and often play them because they like the representation, so I think perhaps it's not my issue. I have a strong policy of not being angry for people who aren't angry about things.

[earnest verge]

?? tornado is really good?

[vast sandal]

dunno if living tornados have an issue with that one

[somber creek]

Tornado is good but its also weird

[earnest verge]

I'll admit I don't notice Fire Scarabs but I don't notice a lot of things

[jaunty garden]

Tornado is SO strong and really obviously how it's good and why?

How is it weird?

[lavish grove]

My friend who’s learning mirage uses it exclusively to kill steal from me (she doesn’t but she does kill steal a lot with it)

[earnest verge]

it's okay for an ability to be weird and have a bit of multipolarity in its design?

[vast sandal]

Tornado is very good

[jaunty garden]

To me tornado is one of the more straight forward abilities in the game. I'm mostly annoyed about it being so strong they had to give it a 40s cooldown.

Because going ZOOM is fun

[plain furnace]

Great !

[vivid nimbus]

Tornado lowkey does let you do bodyguard stuff because you can absolutely go "hey you're coming with me" on an enemy to peel for a teammate

[somber creek]

My problem isnt the multipolarity my problem with it is that it represents so much of his power and yet doesnt really fit the rest of his kits design

[jaunty garden]

It fits great with his 3, IDk how abilities would fit with his 4 in general

[earnest verge]

I just don't see what you mean when you say something "doesn't fit" with Mirage tbh

[vivid nimbus]

Sorta like Abrams but no stun into melee

[jaunty garden]

But it's a fantastic maneuverability and survival tool to enable his 3 getting to stack

Which is also what the 1 is about, giving you more 3 oomph

Like the kit is basically all about his 3, and then the ultimate exists.

Compare Mirage's kit structure to Mina: 1 does damage and gives survivability, 2 is a strong mobility/survival tool, 3 is the main damage threat for hitting people repeatedly with gun to do interesting spirit-based damage

4s are quite different

[finite patrol]

fire scarabs is a close range brawling ability on a long ranged gun hero. tornado also has a little strain against that but its mainly scarabs since tornado is so flexible.

[jaunty garden]

But overall they have almost the exact same kit structure, just with Mirage spec'd into being longer range mostly

[vivid nimbus]

Actually, mechanics wise, I think fire scarabs having bullet shred is a little odd b/c he has poor weapon stats for building bullet damage, but it's also powerful enough without harder synergy

[jaunty garden]

Scarabs work fine for long range artillery barrage once you're good with them

[finite patrol]

his ult is also powerful but doesnt feel good

but an easy change to help it would be making the teleport more flexible / giving you preview

[lavish grove]

His ult is good imo

[finite patrol]

its really annoying to use right now

[vivid nimbus]

Preview? Like if it automatically went to their camera like when you hold the function keys?

[finite patrol]

yeah i have no idea why you have to press an entirely separate button to do what the ability should do by default

[vivid nimbus]

(Also FYI you can see teammates cameras in-game at any point with the function keys, no one told me this)

[finite patrol]

unless they are your 6th teammate

[lavish grove]

What the fuck you can?

[ivory reef]

... yeah

F1 to F6

any time

[jaunty garden]

But yeah, I agree a lot of things about Mirage ARE very strong but often don't FEEL very strong, I mostly blame sfx being mostly lackluster, but like, let us do remember this is still a very pre-release game and he's still on the same sfx he was on ages ago.

[finite patrol]

this also works in street brawl but the binds are reversed lmao

[granite heath]

I thought it goes F1 - F5, skipping you?

[lavish grove]

Jesus I never knew

[finite patrol]

does not work on my machine

[lavish grove]

I never pressed those buttons

[finite patrol]

that would be a sensible implementation but at least for me it doesn't work that way

[jaunty garden]

Is your keyboard really weird?

[finite patrol]

no

[somber creek]

Its hard to explain on mobile, but essentially it feels like Mirage wants to do what a person with a global teleport does, split push and cause pressure and then aid distant fights by showing up.

But he is a really bad pusher because his main wave clear is also his tank button and also his main escapentool, and then his one other ability is a Burst tool and his other ability is both a poke tool and a steady dps tool.

And I know he can build for wave clear but he will still usually have worse clear than like, Mina, who can just press 1 after a clip

[earnest verge]

the thing is that he can show up right next to anyone doing any of these things

[vivid nimbus]

Or the walker, if the enemy dares try to push on an "undefended" walker

[somber creek]

He is not the best at defending tbh

[finite patrol]

hes terrible at defending until late game with toxic ricochet inhib

and then hes just terrifying in general at whatever

[somber creek]

Well yeah everyone is scary when fully built

[echo viper]

Just seems like the lessons Valve learned from Nature's Prophet have been applied with Mirage in much the same way they were with Dawnbreaker (moreso a hybrid arguably, but still).

[jaunty garden]

I often hard-rush Ricochet basically as soon as I can on Mirage.

Which makes him a pretty good pusher.

I agree if you don't it can be rough. I think I was experimenting with uh... The AoE lightning on autos item for a while.

[vivid nimbus]

Taking a 6.4 for your spike in a category is underrated on a few heroes

Tesla bullets?

[jaunty garden]

But also this was MANY patches ago, no idea how relevant it is now.

Yeah, Tesla

[somber creek]

Tesla

[jaunty garden]

But mostly found that I liked Ricochet better

Since Tesla + Ricochet felt unnecessary, and I'd want Ricochet eventually anyway

[finite grotto]

Ye I def need to buy more actives

[somber creek]

I think if you took away some of the power tornado currently has and made it apply the same durability buff to his allies it would a good way to sell the bodyguard vibe

[finite patrol]

just making traveler function better would help a lot imo

[finite grotto]

Which other actives do you recommend? Majleap and arctic I do build and after that I most often (sometimes) get alchemical fire and maybe warp stone

[finite patrol]

like you should be able to teleport anywhere or to a hero and if you teleport to a hero you share your buffs and teleport to them. not to where they were

[finite grotto]

I should prob get more cleanse actives tho like db

[somber creek]

Traveller could also give a shield

Or something

Have it be a get down Mr president

Whos the guy that does that in League

Galio?

[finite grotto]

Galio ye

[somber creek]

Oh, no

[vivid nimbus]

Shen

[somber creek]

Im thinking of Shen

Yea

[finite grotto]

TBF galio also gives defense buffs!

But ye def shen

[somber creek]

I think Mirage wants to be A Shen

But he is like one ability short

[magic summit]

In prio order if those not listed by you. Ethereal shift, dispel magic, silence wave, refresher, infuser, cultist sacrifice

[finite grotto]

Hmhm tyty!

Infuser I usually never go since I prefer leech over it on pocket

[jaunty garden]

I for one would be really sad if Mirage became Shen, at least if they didn't split the character in two and keep Mirage also being Mirage on the side.

I like the selfish poke playstyle.

[finite grotto]

Oh like another question for pocket. Do you usually go 4.8 gun every game or is it really dependent?

So far I have been going the 4.8 gun usually when I am ahead in the early mid/mid game to do more dmg between cooldowns but when I am behind I usually skip it and focus on ult only

(minus like enemy stacking the shit out of spirit Res)

[somber creek]

I mean being A Shen in a more macro sense

[finite patrol]

I think if they made teleport have more options / control over where to go and showed you where you were teleporting by default and then made scarabs a line/cone/something less fiddly id be happy with mirage

[somber creek]

The Archetype of A Shen

Platonic Shen

[finite patrol]

shen that does damage

[somber creek]

Shen does deal stupid damage though

Like shen is also a lane bully duelist

[finite patrol]

Really?

[somber creek]

Yeah

[finite patrol]

I havent played for 10 years so

[somber creek]

You havent seen rework shen then I take it

With the flying sword

[finite patrol]

I probably havent seen rework anyone

shen had shield, line taunt, and a dinky little dagger throw and then teleport ult when I played

[somber creek]

His shield and dagger throw are now a flying sword he can move around that gives him a shield and makes him immune to auto attacks

And makes his autos deal max health damage

So his kit is about winning lane so the enemy lets you free push or commits pressure to you that lets you suddenly switch to showing up in other lanes

[finite patrol]

interesting. yeah back when I played shen was a really reliable support hero that turned ganks

[vivid nimbus]

Oh he still does that

[finite patrol]

did not do much damage though

[somber creek]

Though even that could be out of date tbh I havent played in years

Not 10 years

But multiple years

[magic summit]

That is about how I do it, ideally you want the 4.8 gun spike because it is difficult to get solo kills without it. And I often am in a different zip code than my team when my ult is down

[vivid nimbus]

Except I guess not being popular for support, since he wants actuall money now

[somber creek]

Yeah he wants to solo

[jaunty garden]

He's quite good jungle too

Since the % max hp autos are pretty good at killing jungle camps

And he obviously has really nasty ganks by showing up and taunting enemies

[magic summit]

Though you ca honestly skip the gun investment if you are like, rushing spirit burn

That with a early barrage max can murder a lot of people

[somber creek]

Theres also a huge difference in just porting ideas over obv but I think Mirage just needs one ability to get reworked into being more Shenlike and hes golden

[magic summit]

In fact one of my favorite pocket builds is getting artic blast phantom strike spirit burn. I could probably add focus lens to it too but the point is "murder one person instantly with no recourse"

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rdn0ud/here_is_what_every_hero_would_smoke/

[plain furnace]

Yes, Rem with candy smokes
Perfect

[finite grotto]

Oho!

[somber creek]

Viktor with the Crack pipe

[agile void]

I think it has to do with how functionally sinclair is weird in general

managing the assistant, because its both your escape tool AND and amp to your 1

[jaunty garden]

I definitely don't know enough about smoking to understand this

Lmao

[agile void]

the 3 is a strong cc

and 4 depends entirely on how the enemy is

compared to everyone else who arguably functions the same in game to game

[finite grotto]

I have Sinclair trauma now after yesterday

[agile void]

for example in the pick-

HOW THE FUCK IS KELVIN AND MIRAGE LOWER?!

[finite patrol]

mirage is commonly considered very boring

idk why Kevin is so unpopular. he has a really rough early game. but hes still pretty good

[somber creek]

Sinclaire can do shicanery at least

[somber creek]

Same thing as mirage i think
"Just a bit boring innit"

Oh wrong reply

[magic summit]

Statlocker brought up multiple times today will give a reminder its stats are user submitted and unreliable as it cannot access deadlock api

[somber creek]

Its still kinda the only source of statistics we have to ensure our conversation is a shared reality and not just anecdotes

[finite patrol]

Kevin players dont care about stat tracking 🗒️

[lavish shale]

Kelvin doesn't really have a strong draw to his kit I feel

[agile void]

tbh they did crippled his legs a while ago

[finite patrol]

I find ice bomb super satisfying

ice trail is fucking slow as shit until you get ap and items on it tho

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1o33646/pick_ban_stats_for_deadlock_night_shift_9/

this was 5 months ago

[finite patrol]

yeah fire and ice was a bad time lol

[vivid nimbus]

Most of them are just cigarette brands, and different cig brands have stereotypes and some of them you can just tell the target audience from the packaging

[agile void]

they also recently broke viscous legs by nerfing the cube

before it could get rid of pocket ult or similar, now its all non ult things, which was the only reason viscous was run

[vivid nimbus]

But Pall Malls, Marlboros, Newports, and Camels are a few very popular brands that have other cultural vibes to them among smokers

[frail jasper]

Everyone wants their main to be buffed, but some mains deserve it more than others. The concerns of the deep cannot go unaddressed forever.

[agile void]

problem is viscous was really good, then they just nerfed every part of his kit

[autumn field]

Mina smoking the goth cigarette lmao

[somber creek]

I dont think Silver needs a buff

[frail jasper]

Viscous gun was good, but everything else lacked. He was just a good M1-er and now he got hit with the whiffle bat so that none of it stands out

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah should note Djarum Black is a clove cigarette in black packaging, and clove cigs are very goth stereotype

[somber creek]

I do think people need to stop being so mean and let me play the dang game before I get unstoppable >:c

[frail jasper]

And this was undesirable even for viscous mains. We wanted to be using goo ball and stuff but it just didn't work well and now it still doesn't work well

[vast sandal]

I have no intention of letting a Silver player do their thing

you NEED to be stopped

[vivid nimbus]

(You also can't get Djarum Black cigs in the US since 2009, only cigars, since a ban on flavored cigarettes)

[somber creek]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1279436508662861824/1475927189802451086/fpxzwarwxflg1.png?ex=699f43cf&is=699df24f&hm=5be1c2cf1a0e0deadcc344f4738a8eef95b4872ad983db84f40accb755e705bd&

[jaunty garden]

Meanwhile, I love all 3 of the bottom picked characters lmao

[somber creek]

Wrong image

[frail jasper]

Graves was assigned a vape but Holliday has a dialogue with her commenting on her having a pack of Clovers because she's a theater kid

[agile void]

yup, I knew you guys didnt wanted to go M1s

[somber creek]

Correct image

[agile void]

that was more of a last ditch effort to stay relevant in the current meta

[vivid nimbus]

IIRC Viscous also had a really high base gun DPS until the nerf

[jaunty garden]

Consider: Ice beam feels SO GOOD

Dropping the beam on someone and just laughing is so much fun IMO

[vivid nimbus]

But after other nerfs it was like... yeah that was his best build

[agile void]

less high gun dps, more "his gun was not touched compared to everyone else for a while"

[frail jasper]

We got +7 spirit at level 35 though in compensation

[somber creek]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1rcu3un/the_current_silver_experience/

[agile void]

I dont know in what way they should buff viscous

[primal sphinx]

Deadlock needs more full-time creatures, all of the cast except Rem is humanoid at least some of the time

[lavish shale]

Good and deserved

[somber creek]

Make it so fist isnt parryable maybe?

[agile void]

problem is that fist is a really strong displacement tool

[autumn field]

I want to play debuff heaven

[somber creek]

So are a bunch of other abilities

[lavish shale]

Wait can you normal parry the fist?

[somber creek]

Yeah

[autumn field]

Whose the most annoying debuffer in the game

[lavish shale]

??

Okay

[somber creek]

Its a melee attack

[primal sphinx]

I doubt they'll make fist unparryable, it's the sort of weird interaction Icefrog loves

[agile void]

I mean yeah, but if we are more specific

you can see the displacement coming

bebop

or venator

or the caster needs to be close

[lavish shale]

I had not assumed you could parry melee abilities without counterspell

[agile void]

viscous can cast it from like 30 or so meters

[somber creek]

You can't

Just fist

Just viscous

[vivid nimbus]

IDK, what is the ideal Visc gameplay experience?

[lavish shale]

...thats so fucking weird

[agile void]

I guess ball? you can tell a viscous is good if they can dribble or know how to permastun your ass

[somber creek]

Well I think if we are being fair this logic should apply to everyone or no one

Not just one guy

[lavish shale]

Does it even say anywhere that its parryable?

[somber creek]

Nope!

[jaunty garden]

I want to note permastuns are bad mmmk

[somber creek]

This isnt a stun though

Just really annoying displacement

[finite patrol]

I dont think viscous needs a buff. his kit is kind of one of those kits where the numbers can all be bad and its still good

[primal sphinx]

I wouldn't be surprised if instant attacks get added to Deadlock at some point and more abilities become parryable

[jaunty garden]

That was in response to Jaacker, Voy

[somber creek]

Oh right

[vivid nimbus]

I mean if you just tell me that, that suggests being like Dynamo/Pocket where your ult wins fights and the rest is mostly just sorta nice to have

[somber creek]

Apologies

Dynamo's kit is so good though

Even without ult

[agile void]

viscous ball stun makes sense because you need p strike and warp stone at least, its not just you can do it from the get go

[jaunty garden]

I do not think that there is a buying items combo that makes permastuns ok.

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah but RN you bring Dynamo to the team comp for his ult, even if the rest is good

[agile void]

And we have mo and krill in the game, that is just how the game is

[jaunty garden]

M&K feels a lot more disruptable to me than ball combos to

Do*

[mild flume]

this is very well done damn

though tbh I think vyper is a smokes whatever cigs she can bum off other people

[agile void]

I mean Im saying it from experience, hadnt played viscous beyond punch builds for the christmas challenge

[agile void]

vyper just smokes the last thing her victims carried around

or something from lash

[mild flume]

that too or anything anyone leaves around

yeah probably whatever lash smokes is a good shout

[bleak thicket]

ah yes
lash hair cigarettes

[vivid nimbus]

Vyper buying papers and rolling her own from leftover cig butts

But sometimes, you do have a dry spell of bummable/stealable/etc sources of cigs and you do just gotta buy a pack

[agile void]

the lash requires a restraining order

[finite patrol]

lash why do you always death slam the vyper away from the team

[bleak thicket]

the one thing separating lash from johnny bravo is johnny wouldnt be intimidated by vyper

[agile void]

oh yeah, wasnt one of the episodes like him having a date with some monster and when she revealed her true form it was like

"Damn..... Still would hit it"

[vivid nimbus]

Johnny is also less violent I think

[agile void]

Yeah I think I never saw him throw a punch, unless it had to do with Carl

[magic summit]

What do you mean by instant attacks in this context

[primal sphinx]

A la Dota, where they proc on-melee effects and count as melee for things like parries

[rich grove]

don't... don't most "x is melee" abilities do the former

[somber creek]

Yeah we have a bunch of those

[primal sphinx]

Making it a consistent category rather than the current mix of some things proc and one thing is parryable

[somber creek]

Billy Silver Drifter

[rich grove]

parries no, but Viscous is the only one who can do it remotely

[agile void]

it is pretty weird how viscous is the only one like this

[rich grove]

that and the displacement is horrific

[agile void]

I remember people saying that calico at least should count too, and bebops uppercut

[magic summit]

Viscous is the only one that does it ranged

[astral lava]

isnt viscous fist thr only one you can parry

[primal sphinx]

Can Viscous punch take runes and rejuv, btw?

[finite patrol]

theyre not instant theyre on demand

[agile void]

max tier

at that point they become heavy melee

[rich grove]

everyone else is (relatively) up close

[agile void]

they can also be used to break Graves tomb

[primal sphinx]

For now

[magic summit]

I was gonna say all melee abilities proc melee items too but I dont know about minas

[agile void]

rake doesnt count as melee

[rich grove]

viscous can with enough range just trivially stick his head out, nug you with punches, dip back into cover and you never interact with him while you get chain juggle tae fuck

[mild flume]

its all very inconsistent and weird

[magic summit]

It secures minions as a melee attack

Which is why I was unsure

[vivid nimbus]

Mina's isn't melee and also IIRC doesn't secure

[magic summit]

It does

[agile void]

that was my main reason why making the punch not parryable as a buff is a bad idea

[primal sphinx]

That's why I kind of expect most of them to get standardized into one category eventually

Instead of being so ad hoc

[rich grove]

yeh

[vivid nimbus]

Ah okay, but I do remember Rake doesn't have melee scaling

[mild flume]

yeah I would kinda like that though hmmm I can see why a lot are balanced in specific ways its a mess

to know what heroes can buy punch items etc

[agile void]

technically everyone can go melee, its just safer or more effective for tanks and heroes that have melee scaling.

[magic summit]

I feel like the only real outlier is the viscous punch, which the world where it wasn't parryable was pretty miserable cause he didn't release like that

[primal sphinx]

Punch Rem best Rem, too small to easily parry in a teamfight

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah that was added like 3 months after his release

[vast sandal]

mirage, it's me, your long lost cousin Zohran Mamdani

you need to kill that rat Rem

[rich grove]

god

[mild flume]

I mean which abilities can use it

[somber creek]

I would rather fist be unparryable and instead lose the charges and just be a single big ability

[agile void]

also I think it got the parry property the same time his punch was being affected by melees

[merry verge]

Yeah fist being parriable is almost required

[vast sandal]

tbh the ideal Viscous gameplay experience involves using fist walljump boost

[vivid nimbus]

I think it's funny that there's 8 abilities that proc melee item passives, and Silver has 3 of them

[merry verge]

A good one will not let you move

[agile void]

calico, drifter, silver like tech said, bebop, viscous

[rich grove]

all the abilities which can use it specifically say

"deals melee damage"

[primal sphinx]

Frankly it's disgraceful. She should get 4 instead

[rich grove]

it's actually reasonably consistent tmk

[agile void]

calico pounce, drifter rend, entirely silver, bebop uppercut, and viscous punch

[vast sandal]

wait so if a skill deals melee damage it counts as a melee for melee items?

[agile void]

yes

[rich grove]

hence Drifter + Lifestrike

[vast sandal]

like including Spirit Snatch yeah

[rich grove]

unparryable Lifestrike proc predy gud

any melee guy + lifestrike really

[agile void]

also billy bashdown

[vivid nimbus]

Per the patch notes, nope, Viscous released August 1st, puddle punch got melee scaling August 15th, became parryable Nov 21st

[mild flume]

I thought there were some that used melee damage that didn't

[rich grove]

to my tmk it's pretty universal

[jaunty garden]

Remember: You can parry anything with Counterspell

[vivid nimbus]

And then puddle punch T3 became heavy melee on Dec 6th

[magic summit]

Do you know which one you are thinking of

[rich grove]

heavy melee no, I think but am not sure visc might be the only guy who can heavy melee on a spell

[agile void]

maybe you are thinking of heroes that play close range by default?

[vivid nimbus]

Billy's Bashdown is also heavy on T3

[agile void]

on max tier

[rich grove]

there we go

well yes but so is visc punch

[magic summit]

I do wish more had an upgrade to count it as heavy melee

[vast sandal]

okay hold on

do melee damage abilities proc Charged Melee

[agile void]

Heavy melees only

[vast sandal]

huh

[agile void]

Also only reason you go for melee charge is the range of the punches

and that doesnt really affect abilities

[vast sandal]

I take it on Paradox because you get an easy punch after swap

[merry verge]

Melee Charge as a movement tool also pretty fun

[rich grove]

until they nerfed the whiff recovery of heavy melees it was faster to crushing fists as abrams than to walk

[vivid nimbus]

It also gives other stats, including +25% heavy melee damage

[mild flume]

nah but I can't find anything I was thinking of so nevermind, I thought there was something that had melee damage scaling but didn't proc items for some reason

[vivid nimbus]

Oh huh

Viscous' Puddle Punch T3 is bugged, and does not gain 25% bonus damage from Melee Charge's effect, despite putting the passive on cooldown.

[rich grove]

seeing Lystic or other pro players just swingin raw heavy melee is just baffling sometimes

I get that it's a pug but damn

[vivid nimbus]

Meanwhile, Billy's Bashdown T3 also doesn't get the bonus damage but doesn't put it on cooldown

[agile void]

Honestly at that point I think its a case of "I know the rules enough to know when to break them"

[vast sandal]

I need to get more on point with parrying

[rich grove]

sometimes it makes sense like when they wind up around corners and use melee charge to, uh
demoknight charge

[vivid nimbus]

TBH, I've seen pros miss parry in Night Shift. It happens

[vast sandal]

when I see a Billy or an Abrams I'm like "yeah that's on mental stack" immediately

[rich grove]

like fair enough sometimes you get caught lacking cause you had absolutely no idea that could hit you

[vast sandal]

but you never expect the Celeste charged heavy out of nowhere

[rich grove]

especially with how goofy the melee hitbox is

[merry verge]

There's a lot going on to be thinking about to keep parry at the forefront all times

[rich grove]

but othertimes they are right there winding up in front of people who have nothing else to react to

[lavish shale]

I heavy when I can unless the opponent shows me they can parry tbh

but I also play in bad elo

[rich grove]

yeah I also play in shitlo haha so its not surprising if people do that to me

its not surprising if they do that to me even if I show them I can parry

[merry verge]

The Billy Manuever

[rich grove]

but like

even in eternus/asc I guess people just dont know how to press f sometimes

[vast sandal]

I cannot escape Alchemist 6

[mild flume]

my impression with abrams at least is that getting parried if they are in your cone thing is not a huge deal

[vast sandal]

I keep winning matches and the game just goes "hmm, interesting"

[mild flume]

so its relatively low risk

[rich grove]

sometimes if they're low enough or just squishy they can risk dying to the tick damage, other times it's pretty bad

[finite patrol]

dance for the patrons lunatic blue. dance!

[rich grove]

if they have any kind of backup you should just die probably

cone or no cone

[finite patrol]

abrams is one of those heroes where you dont have to bait parries because people will parry randomly and then you get a free heavy melee

[vast sandal]

"randomly" it's abrams

[rich grove]

imo that's Billy more often than Abe

[rich grove]

just because most Abe players are fiending for the heavy

[agile void]

Abrams will normally Not risk the parry

[rich grove]

and never represent the light outside of situations where it is purely a guess

[agile void]

if someone does a heavy melee after shoulder charge and its not t2, its on them

[vast sandal]

he's gonna hit you

with his book

[finite patrol]

I basically only heavy parry when its guaranteed or by accident

[vast sandal]

it's gonna hurt

a lot

[frail jasper]

Both Billy and Abrams players should be playing the parry bait mind games on people, it's so hella punishing when they see you whiff a parry

All you have to do is walk at people menacingly and wait until they parry

[agile void]

or be in their faces and randomly light melee

[mild flume]

I definitely punch people who are focused elsewhere or looking away

[frail jasper]

This is true for any character if you just move like you want to melee them but choose not to, eventually they crack and parry nothing hoping to catch you out and then you beat them senseless

[rich grove]

typically I find that getting tap meleed is just the less punishing option compared to gambling on a self stun

[merry verge]

I usually just climb into the trees if an Abrams wants to get involved

[agile void]

also if you are in the parry cooldown, you need to try to not be at even floor

wall jump around or something

[frail jasper]

IDK about other characters but I know rem's light melee is exactly half his heavy melee so you can just q spam them for similar results

[rich grove]

Abrams' shotgun does nuclear damage, I am only worried about melee after a charge in comparison to voluntarily putting a big MEATSHOT ME IN THE BACK OF MY HEAD target on

[astral lava]

secret heavy melee technique: do it from the left because the split second between finger on d and finger on f may save you from a parry

[rich grove]

😭

the homo genius...

[agile void]

me with my parry in J:

[vast sandal]

a history of gay occultists

[mild flume]

charging melees not really at people directly can get parries just off the sound

[astral lava]

the dvorak user

[agile void]

Tbh I have it in my Second mouse button

[jaunty garden]

I have parry on a mouse button

[mild flume]

also yamato us unstunnable in ult so go hard then

[frail jasper]

Yeah just do heavy melee and whirl it off to the side and people will reaction parry

Then you do it again but hit them now

[rich grove]

yesterday someone was repeatedly testing me and after the first couple of "you're surely just baiting the parry"s I just put him on the floor every single time he tried, even mid teamfight

you really have to at least represent the bait

otherwise you do get cue'd for free

[mild flume]

also y'know there are all the usual cancel tricks

for those that have or buy them

[vast sandal]

cancel tricks?

[frail jasper]

I haven't ever seen HMC used on me but I imagine it's a real ankle breaker

[vast sandal]

Heavy Mob Cemetery?

yeah that's an ankle breaker all right

[frail jasper]

Heavy melee cancel

[mild flume]

you can start a heavy melee then fleetfoot to just end it

among other things

[rich grove]

heavy melee cancel is mostly a gimmick now but hey

if it works

[mild flume]

if fleetfoot is not crazy on your char it works

[frail jasper]

Fleetfoot interrupts the charge but you do it after the sound plays so they reaction parry your "obvious" punch, then you beat them up

[vast sandal]

im just sayin, Heavy Mob could be in this game

give em the ole dick twist Sol

[finite patrol]

https://deadlock.wiki/Heavy_Melee/Heavy_Melee_Cancel

[merry verge]

Anyone else lag spiking recently, I swear it happens more with melee

[mild flume]

ivy rock is another big one

[merry verge]

Folks just teleporting

[vast sandal]

frankly, we could have an Ixian firebender in this game with Sidewinder and it would fit right in

[finite patrol]

HMC used to be essential tech on every hero since it let you move really fucking fast but they got rid of that

[rich grove]

yeah the days of orbital rail driver abrams are gone

[jaunty garden]

What is the point of HMCing to get someone to parry? It's not like Parry has a meaningful cooldown.

[mild flume]

it really does

[finite patrol]

because parry has a meaningful cooldown

[rich grove]

are you baiting lol

[vast sandal]

its like 3 seconds or something

you can get cooked in that timeframe

[rich grove]

you pretty much get one guaranteed afterwards and if not you can shoot them in the head with your gun

[mild flume]

4.5

[jaunty garden]

My brain thought it was like 2-3 seconds, did it get longer at some point?

[mild flume]

it can go to 2.5 with rebuttal

[finite patrol]

parry cooldown is 4.5 seconds if do not you land a parry and 0.3 seconds if you land a parry iirc

[granite heath]

Unfortunately I'm reading all these HMC as Heavy Mob Cemetery and getting confused, because parry doesn't stop grabs.

[finite patrol]

Healthy Maxed Clutch

[vast sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/guilty-gear-sol-badguy-heavy-mob-cemetery-gif-14513365611162298682

casually messatsu child

[somber creek]

They should put Sol Badguy into deadlock

[bleak thicket]

theres also the fact that you have teammates
if you bait the parry
more than one person can just free punch

[rich grove]

i mean if it's an xv1 it doesn't matter and if it's an xvx then you get into the issue of teammates parrying for them

which is a semi common lane clownshow

[finite patrol]

if you parried in lane and your teammate is with you they are dead unless the other lane opponent jumps in and parries you

[somber creek]

I have had people do that to me

[vast sandal]

honk honk

[finite patrol]

we had a parry clownshow last Wednesday when I was laning with Tom

[merry verge]

Early game slapfights are crucial

[bleak thicket]

wait wtf
https://deadlock.wiki/Cheater_Frog
this is so funny

[granite heath]

oh dang new Jenny pfp.

[finite patrol]

new font what the fuck

[bleak thicket]

"if we identify a cheater, you get the option between banning them, or turning them into a frog, and then banning them"

[vast sandal]

yeah

it goes hard

[granite heath]

Always the most fun lanes.

[rich grove]

dang our teammate got caught aimbotting...... we either gotta ice him or turn him into a frog

[finite grotto]

ok weird question

can you send links in deadlock chat

[finite patrol]

I forgot the other opponent but if that rem weren't there they would have been cooked

just in general

[frail jasper]

I love the frog cheater thing but (thankfully?) have never seen it

[jaunty garden]

Honestly he'd fit right in.

[rich grove]

silver has a projectile, an advancing kick and an invulnerable reversal albeit one gated by a meter (wolf form)

silver is a shoto.

[vast sandal]

Yes

[somber creek]

No wonder i love her

[merry verge]

Silver has ripped jeans, she's practically already from Guilty Gear

[agile void]

not enough belts

[rich grove]

the handcuff is extremely gear

[vast sandal]

is it just me or are the newest heroes all weirdly more modern-looking than the previous ones

[rich grove]

all she needs is some bullshit in broken english written on her jacket

[agile void]

no, its guilty

[rich grove]

well the cuff got broken

so according to phoenix wright rules

[agile void]

therefore, guilty

[rich grove]

that's innocent

[vast sandal]

HOWL LIKE WOLF / BAD MOON RISING on either side

done

[rich grove]

yeah true if silver's spells were named after bad translations of CCR songs

that would be peak gear

[finite grotto]

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Mbyax-ilLNa9qOkxfvstu4CNxCQO74Bcj2uhGeokL2g/edit?slide=id.g2bbb871045f_0_5#slide=id.g2bbb871045f_0_5 where is the deadlock version of powerpoints like this for soloq that people send in pregame chat

[agile void]

pretty sure it has more to do with them being the latest additions to the game

[merry verge]

They have some modernish bits

[agile void]

honestly the only one that I can fight you on that is arguably apollo

[merry verge]

Graves and her friggin Doc Martens

[rich grove]

i could do a passable dota 2 powerpoints guy for most of the characters in game

[agile void]

the rest can kind of work

rem is just a creature

silver basically has the regular clothing for a wolf character

celeste is functionally using circus clothing

[vast sandal]

im lost are you saying they AREN'T modern looking compared to the 1920-40s ass cast or that they are

[rich grove]

celeste looks a little out of place to me timeline wise but im not sure if thats just me having no clue what the fuck circus performers wore in the 1940s

it's not like Prey had a bunch of circus performers on Talos Station

[bleak thicket]

i mean
theres a literal magic computer in the lobby

[rich grove]

and the circus in Bioshock was uhhhh

[merry verge]

The striped little onesie thing under her jacket is 1900s-y as hell

[somber creek]

Nah i did say this too

[bleak thicket]

theres a lot of overlap of vibes

[somber creek]

Everyone feels 80s-ish

[rich grove]

yeah I mean bebop and dynamo are in the game so there is some expected anachrony

obviously scifi robits did not exist in the 40s irl

[somber creek]

Dynamo fits imo

[rich grove]

but- yeah

[vast sandal]

im fine with it to be clear I just kinda wondered if it feels like they're pivoting into a later time period as new characters come out

[somber creek]

Because like hes a robot dressed like a 1930s guy

[jaunty garden]

I mean we have a space alien from mars dressed as a samurai

[somber creek]

Bebop is not on his final model and is still a space robot

[rich grove]

I mean this 100% wardenuinely but the fact that he looks like a character from Robots the awful animated movie fits the look

[agile void]

searched for the words circus 1920 and this came out

[rich grove]

like it just fits perfectly into the hellboy gilded age

[somber creek]

That movie was GOOD what do u MEAN

[rich grove]

beautiful design

10/10

[vast sandal]

Robots had some dank art deco looks

[somber creek]

I think Celeste's main anachronism is the cool leather jacket

[rich grove]

bibbles and yamato are a victim of being backported models from the old game

yamato also just looks mad racist

[somber creek]

Yamato does not look good

[vast sandal]

yamato model update v necessary

[rich grove]

she looks street fighter 2 levels of racist

[agile void]

wtf did I just read?

[frail jasper]

IDK what she was supposed to be in Neon Prime but it isn't earth human

[vast sandal]

also Graves is kinda into her

[rich grove]

im sorry valve, the sectoid weeaboo is actually a very funny and cool idea

[jaunty garden]

I sure am glad that the game has said most of the old models are not at all going to be in the final version of the game.

[finite grotto]

a classic

[median lantern]

The only thing which feels a little over modern to me is Venator’s not-MP5

[frail jasper]

I lowkey dread a major viscous remodel now though

[agile void]

an alien weeabo, literally

[jaunty garden]

The guns have always been kind of weird

[rich grove]

but also you gave the one canonical Japanese woman in the game the most comically squint eyes this side of Brock from pokemon and a skull shaped like the mothership from Homeworld

[median lantern]

But I kinda get it because almost all 40s era submachine guns are fugly as HELL

[vast sandal]

Warden's wackass doohickey

[rich grove]

that shit looks horrendous

[vast sandal]

has got me shooketh

[finite grotto]

there are a couple of powerpoints some people put in lobby chat when they play champs in unusual positions etc

[jaunty garden]

Wait is she actually supposed to be human now

I thought she was still an alien

[rich grove]

yeah she's just like. a gangster.

[agile void]

the lore of neon prime made yamato as a alien that was a weeabo

[rich grove]

she's just meant to be a hong kong B-movie villain

[frail jasper]

How is this supposed to replace my beloved sphere head goober

[agile void]

current deadlock lore is she supposed to be a yakuza

[rich grove]

not a Literal Sectoid from Xcom

[median lantern]

Oh yeah I can’t place that in era at all

[rich grove]

Warden's gun barely looks like a gun

[somber creek]

More of a thin man imo

[median lantern]

It looks kinda like one of those WW1 French machine guns but from roblox

[rich grove]

he looks like he's got the Anomaly from marathon

[merry verge]

Wardens family making their own guns would track for me

[jaunty garden]

Oh wait I remember seeing the redesign concept arts for Yamato AGES ago and thinking they were sick it's kinda wild they haven't put anything in the game yet.

[rich grove]

bro is rocking the Zip Turbo Encabulator

[rich grove]

they're so fucking cool 😭

[vast sandal]

Warden’s gun should be firing straight anti-magic blessed silver bullets

[agile void]

they are probably going through various itinerations

[rich grove]

the leaked model giving her the seven-esque hat to preserve her head hitbox for balance(?) is also incredible

also big hat = aura

sorry

[jaunty garden]

Giant hats are peak civilization.

It's just true.

[vast sandal]

He should have those Why I Oughta hand loads

[agile void]

warden, viscous, yamato, talon and bebop are the ones begging for a redesign fast

[jaunty garden]

Very little makes me happier than INfernus's finger guns tho'

[vast sandal]

Infernus’s finger guns are so good

[somber creek]

I hope Apollo inexplicably speaks Japanese

[rich grove]

he should speak french, but fuck it

he's the son of a royal

he probably couldve taken lessons

[vast sandal]

Him and Lady Geist should have a French conversation

And Geist should immediately go “your accent is shit let’s just speak English”

[rich grove]

lady geist talking shit about bebop in french and then immediately getting hit with the uno reverse is so fucking funny

many such cases

[agile void]

classist moment

[vivid nimbus]

To be fair... the Doc Martens 1460 is from 1960

[rich grove]

I want her to try it on drifter as well

[vast sandal]

“I kill people for money, you kill people for a pack of cigs and a hot meal” is still one of the quotes ever

[rich grove]

actually

when are we getting a Quebecois character

the debacle that would ensue...

[vast sandal]

Quebecois Sasquatch

[frail jasper]

Bebop is a great character, that boy was raised right. I like his dialogue with McGinnis where she asks him what kind of laws he's bound by and he's like "what laws, I just don't want to disappoint Miss Shelly"

[vast sandal]

He has an outrageous accent and is a worse shit talker than Billy

[astral lava]

Very regularly recently

[vast sandal]

Geist calls his French incomprehensible and he immediately threatens to rip her Oathkeeper arm off

[vivid nimbus]

Also the followup of "Oh, I'm sounding a lot classist. Because I'm nothing like you"

[vast sandal]

wait

[finite patrol]

the new york montreal bagel debacle

[vivid nimbus]

I've actually wondered if Drifter is old enough he's an Acadian from before the Great Expulsion in the 1750s-1760s

[vast sandal]

les hicques Quebecois Sasquatch would go crazy

he's just a fuzzy bastard with a shotgun who throws boulders out of the woods at you

and curses you out in quebecois french

[astral lava]

Thus was never true btw she was just an alien who in science fi tradition happened to dress like a samurai

Notably bebop also looks like a samurai

[vivid nimbus]

Also, Grey Talon's design

He still has a weird cyberpunk bow

[astral lava]

his toy bow

[rich grove]

grey talon's bow is the worst part of his kit but the rest my brain just writes off tbh

[astral lava]

Same

[rich grove]

just could be low res fabric or w/e and not an aesthetic choice

doesnt stand out too terribly

the bow should probably just be made into a full magic item though

[vivid nimbus]

GT, Callico, and Shiv having robot arms is also somewhat of a carryover from the cyberpunk setting AIUI

[astral lava]

he wears orange so you can see him in the sky easier

i dont think i noticed gt has one

[rich grove]

Calico's arm is actually a perfect fit for the tone honestly

[vast sandal]

some characters still have lines to call Calico Nano

[jaunty garden]

IIRC there's something about the magic system that makes robot arms important too

[rich grove]

I absolutely adore it

[jaunty garden]

Like the death magic doesn't work through flesh or something

[astral lava]

though now I guess it can be a "Baxter society trades one human arm for spirit animal powers"

[vivid nimbus]

Shiv's arm was originally metal and it was just retextured to wood

[jaunty garden]

So you need to have non-flesh arms or it just kills you

It's why Wraith has an extra set of arms IIRC?

[rich grove]

wraith has an extra set of arms because she is an extremely blatant Jotaro reference but it wouldnt surprise me if that was also true

[merry verge]

She has those arms to stunt on people, obviously

It's such a look

[jaunty garden]

Yeah I mean in the lore tho'

[vast sandal]

Wraith is a telekinetic who operates her marionette arms with her mind

[jaunty garden]

Like there's a specific lore reason that the magitech fucks with people touching it with their fleshy hands

[vast sandal]

it lets her carry a huge fuckoff drum mag gun and still run around like a jackass throwing magic playing cards

[rich grove]

yeah I suspect like many wizards I think she's a noodle armed nerd who could not fire a tommy gun with her actual arms, which if true is an extremely funny character bit

[jaunty garden]

Also probably true, yeah

[astral lava]

her real hands are for cards only

[vivid nimbus]

I think it's funny that Wraith's model/rig literally cannot take her hands out of her pockets, the model doesn't have hands

[rich grove]

but all the Baxter Society guys specifically have the same arm severed and I believe the running theory is that membership or initiation requires the sacrifice

[finite patrol]

Ru DCSS

[astral lava]

real question remains: who is Baxter

[vast sandal]

her wip model has her use both pairs of arms at once apparently

[rich grove]

and likewise the association with animal familiars

[vast sandal]

which I think is sick

[vivid nimbus]

And also Callico and GT have the spirit cat and spirit bird

[astral lava]

where's this at

[rich grove]

although Shiv's is... ????

[finite patrol]

monke

[astral lava]

shiv has the spirit inner beast spirit

vague monkeyisms

[vast sandal]

from the wiki

[rich grove]

shiv has his goofy ass I Dream of Jeannie ass Love Potion No. 9 starring Sandra Bullock ass Robert Pattinson in The Lighthouse ass dangly magic thing on his belt

but that's about it in game anyway

[vast sandal]

it glows when he's in Rage

[rich grove]

ye

[vivid nimbus]

I saw this and cannot stop giggling

[jaunty garden]

But yeah it's hard to find a character who is not undead, using a fucky arm/hand thing, some other kind of monster, or has glowing hands.

[rich grove]

AAAAHHHH

[merry verge]

I wanna know why 90% of the cast has issues with him

[jaunty garden]

What on earth

[vivid nimbus]

Shiv had a transform ult at one point of his WIP-ness, this was the placeholder model

[astral lava]

he's too hot

[finite patrol]

thresh you need to stop. your references too different. theyll kill you

[rich grove]

Shiv used to be a delinquent criminal of some kind before becoming a monster hunter

[jaunty garden]

I think Shiv was either a werewolf or vampire, given what we get from Drifter and Silver about him.

Definitely in that sphere.

[vivid nimbus]

Or something else that goes bump in the night, yeah

[jaunty garden]

I think probably werewolf given his thematics and Silver's permanent lycan arm

[rich grove]

most of the resentment comes from that ill defined bad past and him being the new leader of the monster hunting society after grey talon stepped down, who was presumably much more squeaky clean

[vast sandal]

shiv has that what the FUCK did you just say about my hair

[rich grove]

and yeah I figure werewolf

[finite patrol]

I know this is set in the 30s/40s but I really want a cool cat who snaps their fingers while walking

[jaunty garden]

I think he had a werewolf arm and that was what got cut off to make him no longer a werewolf

[rich grove]

cuphead

nobody in the cast has canonically said 23 skidoo yet. L writing from valve.

[vivid nimbus]

I think it's 40s-50s-ish, a bunch of stuff has like Post-WW2 vibes

[rich grove]

are they stupid

[astral lava]

math says its 1949 I guess

[finite patrol]

it is a game set in the 20th century

[astral lava]

no ww2. Who knows if there's ww1

[rich grove]

if there was a world war ii you know mcginnis was involved somehow

[finite patrol]

instead of having world wars they opened portals

[vivid nimbus]

Shiv is pretty greaser, McGinnis is Rosie the Riveter, Haze's OSIC has like WW2 alphabet agency energy

[rich grove]

the OSIC is pretty clearly an OSS riff

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah

[rich grove]

she has strong Black Chamber energy from the Laundry Files

[mint latch]

I wanna know what Seven actually did to get into Lost Whisper

[magic summit]

Jaywalk

[rich grove]

rap over the hidden king beat

[astral lava]

crime

[mint latch]

Like, best thing we got is that he offended someone

[vivid nimbus]

My feel is he was gonna open another astral gate in his basement and ascend to godhood using it

[astral lava]

called Kelvin a bad word in public

[rich grove]

Seven chuunibyoud too hard and his swag was too tough

[jaunty garden]

Seven feels like the kinda guy who was committing normal magic-crime and then someone pissed him off and he ulted while there were a lot of people nearby who weren't involved.

[vivid nimbus]

And that he assumes people mostly took issue with the "ascend to godhood" part when really they don't want hell-hole blown open in an urban area endangering thousands

[jaunty garden]

Like, he really gives me "Murdered hundreds somewhat casually" vibes

[rich grove]

he seems pretty egregiously evil

[astral lava]

They think they dont, but they do

[rich grove]

although maybe that was a byproduct of being fused to an electric chair and maybe living in eternal torment idk

but I don't think he was a particularly nice man before that

[mint latch]

It was heinous enough that someone decided, "Yeah, put him mega death row, and make sure his execution is extra sure that he's mega dead."

But not heinous enough for anyone to know what he did.

[rich grove]

nah the converse seems likely

[vivid nimbus]

I think he might also be a little... amalgamated from the seven wizards that they brought in to kill him

[rich grove]

whatever he did was so fucked up that it's under wraps

or they really, REALLY do not want it to be replicated

[merry verge]

kind of strange that he doesn't have Surviving Weird Stuff in his kit at all

[jaunty garden]

You don't get to know what he did because knowing it was possible to do it is not something they want public.

[merry verge]

like why couldn't they kill his ass

[vestal hearth]

He can't be that evil. He teaches children not to trust the feds. /JK

[rich grove]

he bought cheat death

[bleak thicket]

he spent it all surviving the chair

[rich grove]

are the OSIC stupid?

[median lantern]

im highkey evillll

[vivid nimbus]

Maybe Seven had a weird deadman's switch and soul obliteration was trying to bypass it by leaving his body alive

[mint latch]

And not to trust liches /j

[vast sandal]

tbh the way his execution and the goals thereof are described, the point seems to be that he knows something really dangerous and is going to act on it

[rich grove]

in keeping with the Jigsaw thing maybe he planned for it and it only worked because seven of the most powerful wizards decided to feed themselves into his human transmutation circle or something

[vast sandal]

and that just killing him wouldn't be enough, because if he persisted as a ghost or a spirit people could contact then he could tell them to do what he was going to do himself

[merry verge]

Should've tried letting Abrams punch him

The fools

[mint latch]

I imagine he wrote the magic on himself

[rich grove]

honestly someone Ouija'ing their way into a magic H bomb seems like as good a reason as any to scour him off the astral plane

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah that seems like the other option if not a spooky deadman's switch, vengeful ghost prevention tactics

[rich grove]

shades are just chilling hades style around the home base

[merry verge]

From killing the seven most powerful wizards on the planet to Sewerboy, what are you doin' Sev

[vast sandal]

oh we know that

he's here for the Ritual

big time

[mint latch]

They were gonna ultrakill him till he's megadeath

[rich grove]

you really do not want him to stick around and teach children like Graves how to build magical nukes

[astral lava]

cant wait for the hideout ghost hero and the urn hero

[vast sandal]

he wants to summon a Patron and achieve apotheosis

[merry verge]

He seems at least like worried about the OSIC though, seems depowered-ish from Ultra Mega Killing

[vast sandal]

he's hiding out in the sewers so that the feds don't find him until it's game time

[somber creek]

Its easy when you look at the Lash

[edgy fog]

I just downtowned a pillow straight up someone's butt

[merry verge]

does his fucked up Glovegun count as a fucky arm

[somber creek]

I dont think so

Its just a dumb gun

[merry verge]

I love that it seems like, actively worse than a regular gun

his reload looks struggled

[rich grove]

he's an illegal pit fighter

if it's anything like the WWE or UFC he isn't making shit

1940s vince mcmahon is doing wage theft the likes you could not imagine to him

[somber creek]

He does make enough that he donates 3% to kids that kinda suck

[vivid nimbus]

Holliday, Lash, McGinnis, Mirage, Paige, Pocket, Venator, Warden, Yamato

[rich grove]

fun fact: Pocket also has a stanky arm

[jaunty garden]

Knowing Lash I'd believe that would be a low enough amount that it costs the charities more money to process than he gives.

[vast sandal]

does Pocket have a stank arm

[rich grove]

it's REALLY stanky

[somber creek]

Its his own charity

[jaunty garden]

I said what I said.

[vestal hearth]

The Yamato concept art had her as a possible teacher or some kind of academic. I wonder if they'll reuse that for someone else.

[rich grove]

it looks genuinely stained with it

[vestal hearth]

Cause so far we've only been given Blackmore students.

[rich grove]

I believe it is also the suitcase arm which uhhhh

yeah thatd track

[jaunty garden]

I would believe Lash would intentionally cost his own charity more than it gives.

[astral lava]

that would be a bad idea

he's a heel he's not stupid

[somber creek]

The charity does seem to be genuine generosity on Lash's part

And its got his name on it

So it has to be good

[still swan]

Its also up for debate if we are seeing his true self, or if he's intentionally playing a heel during the ritual

[somber creek]

I think it is confirmed its a persona

The Patron mentions it

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah I think Pocket's stank arm is just needing to be washed because they carry an extradimenional briefcase full of magic swamp around

[merry verge]

I hope they make the briefcase fancier again

[vestal hearth]

I thought Lash also gives Bebop money for his mom.

[merry verge]

But maybe it's purposely mundane

[astral lava]

the bits of ivy VN we have indicated lash does genuinely want respect

[mint latch]

That mfs arm held that briefcase so long they probably melded to it

[astral lava]

fan theory

[vestal hearth]

Ah.

📝

[still swan]

Also with Vyper he tries really hard to stay in character

[rich grove]

my fanon is that it's magical radiation sickness from carrying the suitcase ward-head around

[still swan]

https://youtu.be/zT36LZVUqp8?si=CurofIH8u4LaNUzI

[rich grove]

whatever Affliction actually is, it's extremely fucking bad news

it genuinely would not surprise me if the theming with frogs was 'yeah we bottled One of the Ten Fucking Plagues of Egypt for fun'

[vivid nimbus]

Actually wait, I only see the stank arm on their old model where their sleeve is rolled up, new model just has fingerless glove and normal-colored fingers

[rich grove]

dang

[vivid nimbus]

Someone got them into a bath I guess

[rich grove]

yeah I wasn't sure if it got remodelled out or not but I really liked it

[edgy fog]

why does it never turn into a video ;-;

[mint latch]

Because MKV

Remux it or something

[astral lava]

Per rem pocket atill smells bad

[rich grove]

need... need me a... sighs deeply

[vivid nimbus]

Have you seen their coat? I believe it

[rich grove]

MISGENDERED POCKET

[astral lava]

frog pocket

[rich grove]

BEAT HER ASS

[astral lava]

mods ban this sick filth

[echo viper]

Not sure what's going on, but I'm for it.

Against it?

[vivid nimbus]

Whoops

[echo viper]

Not sure

[still swan]

Someone post the image

Found it

[rich grove]

tangent to this, I did actually like them having a little wispy facial hair growth in their og model (even if their haircut was like 10x worse)

[mint latch]

Yall have any favorite conversations between characters

[still swan]

"Oh god its talking to me"

[vivid nimbus]

My brain went on a complete tangent and now I'm remembering Callico Lady Geist dragging Dynamo's sport coat

[still swan]

There are a lot of great interactions though

[mint latch]

I'm a big fan of
"So... Wyoming."

[still swan]

Seven has a lot of good ones (totally not biased)

Like that one ueah

[astral lava]

seven is so fruity

[still swan]

I like his interactions with Dynamo as well

[merry verge]

Vyper cooing about the majesty of Dekalb

[rich grove]

BAAAAANG BAAAAAAAAANG

[vivid nimbus]

Not the fruitiest

[rich grove]

I remember someone sending this in another Discord I was in and getting up from my chair so I could scream YOOOOO

[astral lava]

crazy how he lies in his convo with Celeste and says "I'm not a queen"

[somber creek]

This is how I farm as seven

Balling from orbit

[still swan]

"Why do you live at a Circus"
"You live in the sewers"
"WOMAN THE FEDS ARE AFTER ME"

[rich grove]

call that delivery any pro match without Eido because that shit is so fucking out of pocket

[mint latch]

Seven interaction with Graves about her mentor and how he implies he thinks her mentor is probably gonna do some body snatching with her

[rich grove]

absolutely gobsmacking stuff

[vast sandal]

Seven has some hilarious conversations

[still swan]

Seven respects potential and talent

[rich grove]

the S in Seven stands for Stirnerite

[still swan]

He thinks the Lich is using and/or holding Graves back

[rich grove]

if he was in the modern day he would be talking about high agency behaviour

[still swan]

And yeah, I love his interactions with Viscous

"oh god its talking to me"

[vast sandal]

Seven: You have a pillow.
Rem: 'Cause I'm gonna sleep.
Seven: I see the Patron looks to test my patience today.

[rich grove]

if he respects one thing it's self-determination

[gray otter]

seven, two seconds before losing half his healthbar to the aforementioned pillow:

[somber creek]

Seven being possibly 1/3rd of the gay rep of the game is so fucking funny

[still swan]

Seven is powersexual or something

[somber creek]

No hes gay

[vast sandal]

no, Seven is likely just gay

[rich grove]

he's definitely gay

in like

[somber creek]

If he is indeed Kelvin's ex lover

[still swan]

Neat

[mint latch]

Seven and Haze competing on which children they can get into their philosophy

[rich grove]

the way that Dennis from IASIP is gay

[vast sandal]

he's heavily implied to be Ettrick

[rich grove]

but he's definitely gay

[still swan]

Oh yeah I know he's fucking despises Kelvin in a very uh

[rich grove]

if he's not called Ettrick for the fucking

L Ettrick

pun

I will shit

[vast sandal]

L ETTRICK I JUST REALIZED

[mint latch]

You dont shit ever before this?

[rich grove]

yeah for religious reasons

[vivid nimbus]

He sounds incredibly jilted

Seven: I don't understand you, Professor. You've been bestowed a great gift, and you're willing to throw it all away for nothing.
Dynamo: Easy words to say when you've never loved someone.
Seven: No. Easy words to say when you have.

[magic summit]

@still swan

[rich grove]

the seventuationship must've been CRAZY oh my goddddd

[still swan]

Seven definitely seems like someone who probably got betrayed at some point and is very bitter about it

Potentially Kelvin did it for all we know

[agile void]

seven and kelvin did say gex

[finite patrol]

the patrons straight up say his lover betrayed him

[vast sandal]

"Enter my cube"
"No, Viscous"
"invulnerability"
"Yes, Viscous"

[rich grove]

that expedition must've looked like fanfic of The Terror man

[rich grove]

what the hell happened

[mint latch]

The child can smell it

[vivid nimbus]

We should just call the ship Smores, no elaboration

[still swan]

We dont question the cube

[gray otter]

why does geist pronounce it like couscous

[jaunty garden]

French

[vast sandal]

french

[rich grove]

French

[gray otter]

i see

[jaunty garden]

C-c-c-c-ombo

[somber creek]

Rem literally hitting them with the

[gray otter]

what is an evil smore

[vast sandal]

Seven

[rich grove]

do you have the sol badguy edit of this

[vast sandal]

Seven: Your pursuit of vanity is as pathetic as it is cliché.

Lady Geist: Who do you think you are to speak to me like that?

Seven: Your better.

Lady Geist: Ugh.

[rich grove]

that has to be one of my favourite memes ever

[vast sandal]

just straight up talking that good shit on Geist

[still swan]

Undead Old Man Toxic Yaoi

[rich grove]

thank you

[somber creek]

it is in fact a really good meme

[rich grove]

i want you to know i literally pinned this in my dms with my girlfriend so i can always access it on demand

[vast sandal]

Seven is legitimately so angry his ex is here

[somber creek]

then why did you need to ask me for it

[jaunty garden]

I think they wanted to make sure you had it

[rich grove]

no i just did it just now after you linked it to me

[jaunty garden]

Rather than to get it

Oh nvm

[vast sandal]

everyone else he blows off and goes "yeah well I'm cooler and better at magic than you"

[somber creek]

oh good

[still swan]

Who's the other rep outside of Seven and Kelvin?

[vast sandal]

but Kelvin he genuinely gets pissed

[rich grove]

i actually couldn't find it through google for whatever reason

[somber creek]

Celeste

She's a lesbian

[vast sandal]

Graves is implied to kinda be into Yamato

[gray otter]

personally i cant imagine anyone in the cast being entirely straight

[rich grove]

yeah Celeste has an extremely notable difference in the way she talks about men and women in the cast

[vivid nimbus]

Dynamo

[mint latch]

Just sending this to your gf without context sounds very funny

[vast sandal]

Dynamo has a WIFE

[still swan]

Dynamo is a wifeguy

[somber creek]

Oh, I guess Vyperr is also bi

[rich grove]

she would also find it funny because she too is a gearhead

[somber creek]

I did forget that

[gray otter]

wifeguys can be bisexual

[rich grove]

you think Vyper has a choice in the matter 😭

[vast sandal]

Vyper's sexuality is a trainwreck

just like everything else about her

[still swan]

No wonder she gets along with Silver

[jaunty garden]

I feel like Vyper's sexuality IS trainwreck

[rich grove]

Vyper's sexuality: Makes Do

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah but he's also like wifeguy older college professor

[mint latch]

Sinclair? Does Sinclair count as Hetero?

[somber creek]

I don't actually think anyone cares or minds that Vyper is a snake lady

[still swan]

I mean

[somber creek]

I think most care that she sucks and is lame and annoying (endearing)

[still swan]

There are some freaks on the battlefield alreadu

[vast sandal]

it's not that she's a snake woman, it's that she's a deeply inept and casually murderous criminal

[gray otter]

see that makes him more bisexual to me

[still swan]

And also a little unhinged

[finite patrol]

this is a very pnet take

[vast sandal]

I appreciate that her antisocial tendencies include really shot impulse control that's a good take on who Vyper is

[somber creek]

I was gonna say Mina but then I realized she didn't actually have any attraction to Pocket themself and has only expressed attraction to men

[still swan]

Vyper wanted to go drinking with Drifter

Despite actively acknowledging it was a bad idea

[jaunty garden]

I think Warden is probably straight. He takes pride in being as boring as possible.

[vast sandal]

you think Warden has sex???

[finite patrol]

warden is aroace

[mint latch]

Fr?

[somber creek]

I don't think there's anything to guess anything about Warden's sexuality

[rich grove]

it would be the most Mina thing ever to go "I support you being nonbinary so much that I will no longer be attracted to you"

[still swan]

Warden is locked in too much

[vast sandal]

Warden is as virginal as they come

[rich grove]

now that's allyship

[somber creek]

it's like if I drew a frowny face and told you to say what sexuality it was

[mint latch]

Reminds me of that one mulan meme