Teamfight as hard as you like, silly, I’m under no obligation not to take every objective on the map
#Deadlock
vast sandal
vivid nimbus
Even turret mcginnis chews on walkers
Turret echo turret beacon turret heroic and now there's all the dakka shooting at it
random urchin
mcgunnis is just all the big bullet shooty items and then lots of movespeed bullshit so you can just sprint around the map
I like this one a fair bit
finite patrol
Tesla before anything else is completely unhinged like at least put an 800 as first item godddd
vast sandal
NAH
finite patrol
its just bad advice
late hare
I think it also helps that like. Nobody’s going to blame you if you lose lane to McG
if you feed that’s one thing, but otherwise all things being equal it’s a pretty understandable thing to have happen
random urchin
Tesla before anything else is completely unhinged like at least put an 800 as fi...
The guide says to only do tesla first if you get fed early but when it happens its goofy
Ill often skip it for titanic mag first if im not just farming uncontested
autumn field
honestly its why i dont fw that build
random urchin
I wont claim its a perfect build but its certainly funny
finite patrol
it should be "rush Tesla if you get fed" but rn its kinda "rush Tesla unless you dont get fed" which bothers me
autumn field
ngl a 3200 as first is just dumb imo
autumn field
you need to be shredding them like, 3-4 times over
finite patrol
you weren't around for the days of headhunter rush
was headshot booster not an item pre shop rework? icr
late hare
unrelatedly, thank god Viscous punch can be cast on walls
Way easier to hit that way imo
autumn field
if it had a precursor or two id get it
its just in the world of monster rounds, headshot booster, etc
and titanic mag
vivid nimbus
Or if you told me like extended mag, monster rounds, toxic bullets I'd trust that more
Then you've got a few things for lane and then spike hard
rich grove
was headshot booster not an item pre shop rework? icr
i think it genuinely did not build into headhunter for the longest ass time
vast sandal
-# u/One-Target8555
rich grove
but in any case the item 1 on the build was headhunter and it was like
genuinely correct
you got back so much hp and it did so much damage and it proced off any pilot and people just fucking Died
finite patrol
old old headhunter was completely ridiculous yeah
vivid nimbus
September 26, 2024
- Now requires Headshot Booster.
autumn field
-# u/One-Target8555
classic
finite patrol
oh yeah it built outta hvr!
rich grove
yeah
autumn field
anyways night.
vivid nimbus
But it used to build from HVR instead, so it always had some precursor
rich grove
i swear they invented express shot just so hvr wouldn't build into headhunter
finite patrol
lol
vast sandal
Da Wall…
autumn field
i think guiness can spirit, its just gun is optimal rn, right?
finite patrol
8% max health heal and it also has barrier and does 140 damage on headshots lmao
what an item
vast sandal
Turret McGinnis is still a thing
frail jasper
mcginnis spirit is like turret spam stuff, which does GREAT unless the enemies are really diligent about killing them
if they walk into your pile of 3-5 turrets they're gonna get mowed down though so you control a lot of space
autumn field
graves is still my main
frail jasper
buy mystic slow and suppressor so they have the nasty bullets too
vast sandal
Incredible: this character is Heavy or Engineer TF2
autumn field
i guess i can billy but it depends heavily on enemies not knowing how to counter me
frail jasper
another match complete: rem gaming (we lost (our haze baby raged constantly in all chat))
autumn field
also how does melee cancel work?
frail jasper
most simply, buy fleetfoot -> charge heavy melee -> activate fleetfoot before you throw the punch
vivid nimbus
Billy can do quite well at high level too, I think you just need to play around knowing they can counter you instead of just going ham
frail jasper
you can interrupt the animation and fake people out. there used to be a momentum bug associated with it too
autumn field
im just not that good
i should get fleetfoot then
baiting people would help a lot
frail jasper
TBH it's better to bait people without spending 1600 souls just by swerving your punch to the side
autumn field
true
frail jasper
but I doubt anyone will be expecting the fleetfoot cancel the first time you do it too
vivid nimbus
A'ight, fair
finite patrol
got to play Celeste for the first time tonight
autumn field
her movement is crazy
autumn field
i still hate ven's ult
finite patrol
air vent gets you all the way from broad way to side lane guardian
autumn field
i know bebop has the 1000 damage bomb
finite patrol
venator ult is fucking cool as shit
vivid nimbus
Also all 3 of my current mains in the never-picked, alas. (McGinnis, Seven, Wraith)
finite patrol
he's like "im gonna fucking kill you" in latin then he starts glowing and fucking kills you
vivid nimbus
Not that I won't keep playing them, I just can't check out how they're played in comp
finite patrol
I think all of those characters are in need of at least a bit of polish to get them up to speed
autumn field
i should yeah
if i see a ven im buying disarm
and trans cooldown just to spite him more
night
magic summit
Disarming hex should just turn off all his shit except for his trap
I disarmed you my guy why are you still shooting that shotgun
I did download the Gordon Freeman mod for him so I am no longer being shouted at in latin
vivid nimbus
It's neat how the modder ported all of Gordon's voice lines
rich grove
I heard they got the original VA in to redo some
frail jasper
quiet sapphire
she ults in game and the enemy players start hearing explosions outside their house
vapid ember
pick wraith
lose lane to dynamo mcginnis, no issues it wasn't that bad, didin't die
proceed to power farm for 20 minutes straight, equal to dynamo whos 3/1/2 in lane in souls
fight, die
farm for 10 more minutes becauase I thought I wasn't online yet
still fight die
end at 0/4/0
this might actually be the worst character in the game
ivory reef
this might actually be the worst character in the game
Yubel.
I've had to smack someone for stupid road rage posting in this thread like literally every day
The 4chan green text format makes this even worse
If you have a bad game you can actually just shut up and not post about it and especially not post some garbage about character X being bad or op or whatever the fuck
I'm starting to realize this is a pattern for some members here across like all the games they engage in
Please don't bring the energy you bring to card gaming here
vapid ember
Please don't bring the energy you bring to card gaming here
im ignoring the sneak here, is wraith being the worst character not the consensus?
earnest verge
im ignoring the sneak here, is wraith being the worst character not the consensu...
no
mystic breach
im ignoring the sneak here, is wraith being the worst character not the consensu...
no
vapid ember
48% winrate is pretty harsh for her playstyle/kit, that's holliday and mina territory
earnest verge
and bluntly, even with the weakest hero in the game, if you go 0/4/0, that's not the fault of the hero. It is enormously rare for any hero to have below a 45% winrate.
mystic breach
48% winrate is pretty harsh for her playstyle/kit, that's holliday and mina terr...
winrate in pubs is basically meaningless
earnest verge
I wouldn't say it's meaningless tbh, but also, that's like... very close to 50%, lmao
Even on the statistically theoretically weakest hero, what the players do in a match, how they co-ordinate, how they play, how they strategize, how they itemize etc. matters more than a tiny bit of undertuning or overtuning. It's like, not irrelevant, it's super important to look at this sort of thing and think about why that is so and for the devs to take that into account with balance patches, but if you're ever at the point of raging and getting nothing done, it is not the hero's fault.
ivory reef
im ignoring the sneak here, is wraith being the worst character not the consensu...
Yubel I'm going to be harsh: you're just not very good at the game
There are extremely technical heroes in the cast who consistently underperform at all skill levels like Mina
vapid ember
I'm not a m1 demon by any means nor have I put that much time into wraith but I have not heard a single person say she's in a good spot, especially post gun items nerfs.
ivory reef
And you're not even complaining about them you're complaining about the lady with a point target stun as an ult and a fire rate steroid
ivory reef
I'm not a m1 demon by any means nor have I put that much time into wraith but I ...
Who are you listening to
What are these communities you're interacting with
Like I'm serious - you do know you're just taking part in the cycle of bullshit game discourse right? Did you go to a wraith discord server or something? Of course they're all gonna whine about how their character sucks
It's like like over 15 years since StarCraft 2 and if you haven't noticed the patterns with how people engage with these games you really need to wake up
Like fighting games are saturated with these stupid takes
still swan
If I may ask, and I mean this genuinely, how does one become good at the game? I've never played MOBAs befor Deadlock, and I'm finding I die a lot more than my comrades even in the better games I play
Any recomemndations?
ivory reef
And let's just say you're right. Let's say you're correct and you've somehow identified the worst character in the game:
- your performance is still crap and you should reflect on yourself. 0 assists? Were you in a single flight?
- why are you complaining about shit in public channels. What are you accomplishing?
- 4chan green text format
Like what's the emotional loop here beyond just kinda being someone who makes game communities worse
You could just not say anything instead
And stop playing the game or something
still swan
danke
stable forum
If I may ask, and I mean this genuinely, how does one become good at the game? I...
deadlock is hard
source: am phantom or something
earnest verge
past that point, generally just take the time to like, think about how and why things went the way they went between games. If you really wanna try harder you can go look at recordings of other people playing - don't think about how they're moving way better or aiming way better, that comes with time, but like, the abstract idea of why they go the places they go and pick the fights they do
ivory reef
And I don't wanna get started on my usual hot take layer which is that if you're solo queueing you're not even playing the game correctly and you're basically committed to playing the game in a wonky non designed side mode which will always teach you bad habits
earnest verge
if you're dying a lot, you're probably overextending in various situations, and I guess it's best to try and teach yourself to recognize those situations and play a bit more conservatively in them
Or if you're not overextending, then maintaining situational awareness or just recognizing when the time is to dip out of a teamfight
gray otter
i have discovered that i do in fact really like graves
earnest verge
Recognizing at what point you have enough hit points/stamina left to get out of the fight without dying
still swan
Understood
stable forum
And I don't wanna get started on my usual hot take layer which is that if you're...
I solo queue always.
still swan
also yeah, I solo queue as well
stable forum
the last time I tried to stack it was really bad!
ivory reef
That's fine, you don't whine about it
gray otter
i have discovered that i do in fact really like graves
this character rules, i get all the joy of shooting someone until they die with none of the pain of not being able to hit anything
ivory reef
Like how should I put this. Let's compare it to card games
gray otter
and i get to chuck jars of skulls at people
earnest verge
yeah I'll contradict Ashley there, it's a different way of playing but a lot of people do it, even pros in Mobas do it in addition to team scrims
ivory reef
I can commit to only playing mono blue in magic. It's the one style I find fun and it fits my aesthetic and budget
earnest verge
it requires and fosters different skills than proper team play
ivory reef
I am having fun. I'm fine
Do I lose a lot? Still fine
Do I lose a lot and then go on public channels complaining about how all my cards are dogshit? I'm not fine
vapid ember
Like I'm serious - you do know you're just taking part in the cycle of bullshit ...
why are you trying to spin me as some whiny character main and not somebody who played a few games of her and realized her numbers are just bad compared to the other gun carries, she would say play if she was better, her winrate should not be the same as hollidays and minas with a very high density of skill mastery.
earnest verge
and the best pub/solo-queue play does tend to involve a bit of communication too, and in particular it helps a lot with learning how to read situations on a level you and your teammates don't have to talk about
ivory reef
I'm not fine on multiple levels including the fact that I'm restricting myself from actually playing the game fully
ivory reef
why are you trying to spin me as some whiny character main and not somebody who ...
Because you literally whined
This is a mod action in case it isn't clear
I'm doing it in public because I'm trying to make a server cultural stand against the like dozen regulars who keep posting like this
still swan
One of my personal bad habits is going out by myself
which I'm realizing may be an issue
ivory reef
This is not an argument about the stats. Like holy shit as a heuristic maybe I should just tell everyone they're just not allowed to complain about characters period
earnest verge
why are you trying to spin me as some whiny character main and not somebody who ...
because if you go 0/4/0 in a game that's over thirty minutes long, that's a skill issue. you're not even dying enough that one can say you're correctly trying to help your team win the game. and also bluntly you're not discussing this with much nuance - it's one thing to look at co-ordinated high-level games and recognize the implications of what people pick and play there, it's another to look at a single hero not being picked once in that kind of game and drawing incredible conclusions from it
another hero not picked in those games is Victor - a hero who absolutely dominates in the bottom 80% of games in terms of winrate
ivory reef
I'm taking this to pms at this point I think I've made enough public points and I don't want to drown out star
earnest verge
One of my personal bad habits is going out by myself
yeah. this can be fine if done with intentionality and depending on comps and lineups and depending on what hero you're playing
but by and large it's a bad idea to do on the enemy side of the map. I do it too, but usually with intentional greed, usually when I'm already ahead and think I'm quite tough and can either vaporize an enemy in 1v1 or else get back to safety before I get bogged down. A lot of the time it works out! But sometimes I miscalculate.
but keeping track of where your allies are on the map and where you've seen enemies on the map is definitely a skill one should try and cultivate.
I'm not perfect at it - I frequently forget, and positioning can change really quickly.
agile rune
doesn't the new hero drop today?
earnest verge
Apollo? yeah in like ten hours or something
gray otter
he should yeah
final osprey
Rat King? Yeah he should be out today
earnest verge
a joke
agile rune
I meant apollo
earnest verge
the game still lets you vote on the next hero even though there's only one choice
so a lot of players are memeing about it
agile rune
I don't play much deadlock, watch a lot more played
game is cool, my laptop just hates it
somber creek
Game is cool, laptop is hot
stable forum
This is not an argument about the stats. Like holy shit as a heuristic maybe I s...
this is going to bother me if I don't talk about it. I think I understand the behavior you're wanting to discourage, but I'm not certain. I don't talk here much.
I believe you're wanting to discourage people from going 'XYZ character sucks!!!' or '<thing> is awful to play against' or 'I hate <thing>!'
The part which I'm not sure about is...
For example. I've noticed Vindicta is really strong in Brawl! Is it ok for me to go 'Vindicta is really strong in Brawl!'? Can I go 'I think Vindicta is really strong in Brawl, what are some ways I can try to counter her?'
Is it specifically nonconstructive complaining which you're wanting to discourage, or is it negativity in general?
earnest verge
the former, pretty sure, but given how people keep coming in and doing it despite repeated attempts at shutting it down, I can see why one might be tempted to do the more easily-enforced latter
gray otter
personally i dont see stuff like "i think vindicta is really strong in brawl, how do i deal with her" as complaining
thats asking for advice
stable forum
if I just got out of a match against a character I think is really strong, I might use a phrasing like 'overpowered' or a similar more negative phrasing instead. I'm usually fairly good about not going 'overpowered' or 'broken' though.
agile void
I do think its worth sharing the DNS picks
https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1r2ltf2/pick_ban_priority_for_deadlock_night_shift_25/
yesterday one
also all bans to celeste
this was last week
stable forum
also all bans to celeste
Celeste currently has very big numbers I think.
Brawl quadra!
had to break it up into parts because wow long.
abrams takes forever to kill
is also not technically a quarda because the last one was an assist, but stilll
finite grotto
oof rough game. 80k souls behind at 30 min xd
stable forum
gosh Silver is silly.
edgy fog
That's why it's good to play as Billy, so you can go in hard nad smash the 1% when they've got the souls lead on you
stable forum
I'm not sure if I'm Suddenly Good or what but like
earnest verge
silver is very feast or famine, depending on both the way the game goes and how skill levels compare
if you start winning with her and keep the momentum going you can snowball really hard
she's much like a lot of the other assassin/duelist heroes that way, except if she gets big she can transform really fast and reliably, and then she can suddenly also be really tough and win teamfights
edgy fog
You're hitting the brink of mechanical knowledge that puts you over others! Knowing how to act in situations is always good.
rocky cobalt
Sure, sign me up for the EU stacks
edgy fog
Damn you brawling the abrhams clip though, that was strong
stable forum
silver is very feast or famine, depending on both the way the game goes and how ...
kinda yeah. I've apparently gotten to the point with itemization knowledge & capability with the character that I'm hitting multikills in Brawl now though.
earnest verge
but also I've seen some Silvers get relentlessly bullied and be completely unable to achieve anything. And if the enemy team can disable her or keep her at a distance, she can't do very much, especially with an uncoordinated team that can't create windows for her
stable forum
but also I've seen some Silvers get relentlessly bullied and be completely unabl...
kinda yeha.
some of that can be fixed with itemization
stable forum
also what the fuck aa
earnest verge
but slowing down Silver's momentum is kinda a win in of itself
edgy fog
Hell yeah
stable forum
Unstoppable goes a long way
I've been leaning Dispell Magic / Eshift actually!
earnest verge
yeah fair that can work too
stable forum
also what the fuck aa
I think there was a couple times I dropped to 100ish HP and then killed someone.
werewolf is fucking terrifying.
earnest verge
personally I find that ultimate disables are kinda the biggest issue, for anything else I just get Spellbreaker usually
final osprey
Unstoppable doent stop disarm to my knowldegde which is the big thing that hurts Silver
stable forum
personally I find that ultimate disables are kinda the biggest issue, for anythi...
there's not a lot of ultimate disables I think?
edgy fog
When I'm a Rem, I tend to save a lot of my item CC in brawls for Silver's werewolf form. Because it's funny to disarm the werewolf.
earnest verge
not a tonne, but even one can completely ruin your werewolf momentum
stable forum
Unstoppable doent stop disarm to my knowldegde which is the big thing that hurts...
false- Unstoppable works on disarm
edgy fog
Darn
stable forum
it works on any 'disabling effect'
final osprey
Scary
plain furnace
https://youtu.be/BrcJ9h4mulc
I don't want to sound rude. But I remember I started to watch this video, and I had to stop, because the youtuber was condescending. Maybe it's just not my style of humor. But it just felt mean.
Are Deathy's tutorials better to learn the game ?
stable forum
not a tonne, but even one can completely ruin your werewolf momentum
yeah, lash ult or dynamo ult is going to wreck you
earnest verge
yeah
stable forum
I think I still prefer Eshift there though?? Dynamo ult is kinda hard to do anything about
earnest verge
I had a game against a Dynamo and a Vyper once, and it was annoying as heck
edgy fog
Even Rem's ult can really mess up a Silver, specially if people just let her sleep
agile void
false- Unstoppable works on disarm
the only thing that can stop unstoppable is curse, and that is if curse is used before
stable forum
the only thing that can stop unstoppable is curse, and that is if curse is used ...
yeah, Curse can prevent usage of Unstoppable
earnest verge
the only thing that can stop unstoppable is curse, and that is if curse is used ...
well, and stuns, like it says right there in the description
stable forum
full stuns prevent it too.
agile void
I don't want to sound rude. But I remember I started to watch this video, and I ...
Funke just has that personality, deathy has been doing a quick series so you can def check it out
stable forum
unstoppable doesn't help you any if you get hit with dynamo ult before you push it
...I'm also very much leaning towards 'silver should buy duration'
earnest verge
yup, you have to anticipate it
stable forum
and unsurprisingly Duration is good with Unstoppable.
earnest verge
as a Dota player I'm very used to this BKB dynamic 😤
agile void
earnest verge
Unstoppable is definitely weaker than BKB in that it doesn't also give you 80% spirit resist for the duration, but, hey, it also has a shorter cooldown and its duration can be extended
edgy fog
She's got that incredible violence in her
stable forum
yamato is neat! My yamato is weird and incorrect (I like Range rather than Torment Pulse)
but she's cool either way tbh
earnest verge
yup, you have to anticipate it
and the way I kinda do it is like, if I'm about to transform, I set up to try and at least get one kill in during the Unstoppable duration, and that's usually enough. Assuming that they didn't waste their ults on me anyway because they didn't realize Unstoppable was on
edgy fog
Is it bad that one of the reasons I just never got into Yamato is because she's a jerk to all the other characters?
earnest verge
Is it bad that one of the reasons I just never got into Yamato is because she's ...
naw
well, I mean, maybe
edgy fog
I know I am shooting that other person in the face but I don't want to be rude about it
stable forum
and the way I kinda do it is like, if I'm about to transform, I set up to try an...
unfortunately I'm at the level where people are aware that when you push the button which makes you unstoppable it makes you big and glowy and has obvious effects.
earnest verge
but it's not weird
earnest verge
unfortunately I'm at the level where people are aware that when you push the but...
yeah fair, though in huge teamfights there's enough shit going on that it can sometimes be hard to see anyway
stable forum
trueee
earnest verge
Not an effect to rely on, admittedly
and I don't
it's just kinda nice side-bonus when it happens
agile void
earnest verge
the real goal is to just win the fight during the duration
stable forum
yeaa, that makes sense
most of my engagements in brawl seem to go pretty long
in standard I tend to not be able to get super great engagements / tend to kill one person and then back off?
earnest verge
(not necessarily in the sense of "everyone's dead in six seconds", but in the sense of you've acquired a huge enough advantage in the duration that the fight's won and the enemy will die if they don't retreat effectively)
yeah that can still be good
it depends a lot on the team
when playing with a stack you get big and extended teamfights in the standard mode too
edgy fog
I didn't realize that cultist sacrifice had such a short range
I thought it would be able to clip a minion from a way back but you really have to be out there among the weeds
still swan
Just did a match following the laning rules linked, played a lot better (if not perfect) and died much less
Progress
agile void
gray otter
magnificent
warm sonnet
The gunpowder trail might clash with Infernus' flame dash but otherwise that's a neat concept
toxic gulch
https://youtu.be/BrcJ9h4mulc
Oh this was genuinely good. I unfortunately watched this before I had the game installed but the advice was sound
“Always look at the map”
“Manage your lane before doing other shit”
“Don’t leave your partner behind”
“Buy a fuckin defensive item man”
…I still need to ping when enemies are missing
But yeah this was a good vid
gray otter
https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1r2lj0g/oc_no_moba_is_without_...
mmmh
monke :)
toxic gulch
For just, pure fundamental concepts to grasp and chew on
stable forum
this character is ridiculous
also this shows why I have a preference towards eshift I think
toxic gulch
Oh this was genuinely good. I unfortunately watched this before I had the game i...
Fuck, now that I actually have played the game and done more with it, this video is twice as useful
Rewatching it
stable forum
eshift so coool
toxic gulch
Yeah fr
And also the whole “using soft and hard pressure” is a principle I abide by
And man I love stealing enemy casino when I’m in the right spot for it it’s so funny
stable forum
eshift so coool
toxic gulch
Team game, requiring and not suggesting some amount of communication.
Solo queuing involves putting your faith in internet randoms and that faith may be misguided but sometimes you gotta use those pings and quick communications
And things go pretty smoothly
stable forum
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281742836878020722/1471501146387648597/6...
'and then I killed all of them'
actually huhhh??? wuhh???
edgy fog
A perfect example of sticking with your partner
stable forum
oh there's an even better frame
edgy fog
the bebop was trying to get out of there, would put bombs on you and the moment you got close ran away. Stick with your partner and you outnumber the silver.
stable forum
Team game, requiring and not suggesting some amount of communication.
Solo queu...
yeaaa, I mute chat but ping aggressively and it mostly works
edgy fog
Spending cooldowns is never not worth it
toxic gulch
Chat is useful sometimes
Genuinely
Sometimes people say things in there that are relevant but can’t or won’t be pinged
edgy fog
cehvfhlel
agile void
at worst as rem at the 8min I say "Going to gamble"
toxic gulch
Look wrong langauge
agile void
and beeline to the double sinners
toxic gulch
“Gonna gamble :))!!!” imagine in rem voice
stable forum
Chat is useful sometimes
yeaah but people are toxic sometimes
and, idk, I'm not often up for being 'properly communicative'
toxic gulch
Yeah I mean that’s fair
agile void
I try to just be pings
agile void
the only times I actually comm is if I feel comfortable
toxic gulch
Also readjust my pings
stable forum
Sometimes people say things in there that are relevant but can’t or won’t be pin...
small thing
I'd like if people pinged more aggressively. If I have chat muted, but don't have pings muted, and you make a verbal call 'hey let's do mid boss', I don't hear that
but if you ping mid boss I do
stable forum
oh right I needed to add 'leaving the area' ping
agile void
that or someone is getting whiny to call them out
stable forum
that one seems more useful than retreat generally.
agile void
I remember a warden whining about shiv being fed
then I go ahead and say "guy, despite you having the most kills, you have the most deaths and shiv was in your lane"
"If someone fed shiv, statistically the most probable person is you"
then Called out the fact that he had literally no greens in his build so of course he died
agile void
after that he stopped whining and actually bought leech
toxic gulch
small thing
I'd like if people pinged more aggressively. If I have chat muted,...
That’s fair
Though i can’t blame the guy voicing “let’s do midboss” for expecting others to hear it either
toxic gulch
after that he stopped whining and actually bought leech
Lmao that’s good I suppose
stable forum
there's sooo many times I see my team going mid and nobody pings it >.>
stable forum
after that he stopped whining and actually bought leech
this is goood. Leech is a solid item generally
agile void
Lmao that’s good I suppose
I mean I do try to not be aggresive
toxic gulch
Sometimes it’s emergent pheromone communication
stable forum
it's neat how it's an overlap of spirit power & gun damage.
stable forum
Sometimes it’s emergent pheromone communication
truee
toxic gulch
Everyone sees mid and universally makes the snap judgement of “I guess we doing mid”
stable forum
I try to make sure to ping stuff at least.
agile void
but whining about a problem that statistically, might be "your" fault is shortsighted
stable forum
...I also will often go 'this call sucks, I'm spamming retreat ping'
or 'this fight sucks' or whatever
toxic gulch
The odd ant like behavior of a moba team that wants to play teamwise, but doesn’t ping or say anything
stable forum
taking suck fights is very common >.>
toxic gulch
They engage in some sort of eusocial insect behavior
Retreat pings are good
I listen to those a lot at least
stable forum
if I am up for talking I'll do a retreat ping and also try to explain why the fight sucks
agile void
I remember pinging for midboss a ton when like 4 enemies were at like 30+ second spawn
agile void
then they actually decide to do mid by 10 second spawn
stable forum
that's not the worst as long as blue is pushed
if blue isn't pushed then yes, 'too late pull back'
agile void
that's not the worst as long as blue is pushed
it wasnt
stable forum
oof
agile void
That was one of my most recent annoyances, and that was more of a
"Why do you guys waited so long to do mid?"
stable forum
...I also will often go 'this call sucks, I'm spamming retreat ping'
there was that one time we were taking mid and i was like 'guys this mid call sucks' so I spammed retreat ping the whole time. I stuck with them still, because me leaving would make it even worse, but... I think we lost off of that?
idk, it happens
communication hard >.>
awareness very hard! It's something to practice
Deadlock is a lot of stuff to focus on all at once which, honestly, I like.
toxic gulch
Communication is hard
I do like queuing with a buddy or two
Cus then at least 2 or 3 team players had a psychic communication line and act with snappy coordination
Ideally all 6 are in such a hivemind(discord call) but that is infeasible sometimes cus not all my friends play deadlock and sometimes competitive games are hard for emotions
But yeah communication elevates the team…if the others are willing to listen
stable forum
yeaa, coordination is generally the biggest factor for whether or not a team wins, and communication helps with that a lot
toxic gulch
Sometimes there’s a teammate who just stops paying attention and is off in their solipsistic bubble of reality
toxic gulch
yeaa, coordination is generally the biggest factor for whether or not a team win...
Even if you’re on the backfoot this is true
I’ve seen some really tight wins pulled out from a soul disadvantage
That shit cannot be done solo you gotta work with your team to make comebacks
finite grotto
ok i finally got a feel for bepop
toxic gulch
I love how absurdly angry every character is when they get grabbed by him
finite grotto
but wow bepop builds are funky
toxic gulch
“BEBOP NOO-“
finite grotto
I love how absurdly angry every character is when they get grabbed by him
there are few things better then a turn hook into a 1 bomb into your guardian in lane
stable forum
...if you get to the point where people start parrying Guardians, it's better to throw them around instead of directly at your guardian so they can't parry!
the guardian melee does a looot of damage though
toxic gulch
You can parry guardians?
finite grotto
Ye!
toxic gulch
Huh!
finite grotto
It is really good if you can manage since it disables it
stable forum
yeah, stuns the guardian for the usual parry stun time
can't parry base guardians now though
still swan
I hate being lasso'd by Holliday
toxic gulch
Yeah she does that
ivory reef
I don't want to sound rude. But I remember I started to watch this video, and I ...
If the tone doesn't work that's super valid. Ironically I woke up to two pings for me posting that and the second one was someone saying it was incredibly useful
I think that funke's video is just the best video for getting up to speed with moba logic
There are many other videos that take a very wide tutorialization of all the concepts in the game which is super useful and fair. But iirc the person I was responding to was talking about moba unfamiliarity
ivory reef
If I may ask, and I mean this genuinely, how does one become good at the game? I...
Right here
There's a kind of person who's honestly very familiar with hero shooters and can hold their own in TF2 and overwatch and marvel rivals and they're still struggling with deadlock
And that's just because deadlock is a moba
If your brain isn't checking the minimap every other second you'll just die
warped ridge
As a chronic shooter player.
Yes transferring from shooter to Deadlock is one of the biggest tonality and game feel shifts
ivory reef
I'm teaching @sweet cobalt how to play too and I usually spot them being out of position before even they do. Extremely normal stuff
warped ridge
Like I wish I knew how to make a useful guide because like
ivory reef
Everyone new to Dota simply finds themselves away from the herd and then they randomly die and it's part of learning
warped ridge
Wait cosu is out of position?
What shooters does cosu play? Or is the map unfamiliarity
warped ridge
living in the enemy jungle
Jg my beloved
agile void
and manage to run away uncontested
warped ridge
How I wish deadlock had jg role
ivory reef
Fuck, now that I actually have played the game and done more with it, this video...
Glad you found it useful Karen
bleak thicket
Wait cosu is out of position?
What shooters does cosu play? Or is the map unfam...
just map awareness and being too far too back in lane
ivory reef
It's basically just a dota primer but for shooter players
bleak thicket
its very much a "still learning mobas" thing
agile void
Glad you found it useful Karen
I think funke actually talked about the reception of the vide
ivory reef
There are no modern shooters that teach minimap awareness like mobas need
agile void
let me see if I can find the moment
ivory reef
There are some older shooters like halo that used minimaps really well for general roaming combat
sweet cobalt
lmao I don't play MOBAS at all and a lot of my pain points are related to the genre knowledge
warped ridge
There are no modern shooters that teach minimap awareness like mobas need
Huh?
But Deadlock doesn't have things like wards and what not.
Minimap in Deadlock is like free callouts in Siege or Valorant.
ivory reef
But playing arcs doesn't help you not die to drifter
warped ridge
Oh
Hrm
Oh yeah I can see that
Moba-isms of like, character stuff changes map pressure compared to shooters where it's just sightlines and headshots
sweet cobalt
Oh does Cosu play primarily BRs?
I have way too many hours logged in Halo Infinite lmao
arena shooters mostly
warped ridge
Ahhhhh
ivory reef
If you're alone drifter mauls you, if you're within assist range of your friendly mina she will chunk him
still swan
I didnt watch the full video, didn't have the time, but I found the info given in the first part (laning( to be super useful in the game I played afterwards
ivory reef
And the drifter knows that too
The drifter won't attack until you're alone
It's a lot of team killzone stuff
warped ridge
I want to ask you how you liked it, I think I got to like Onyx but Halo Inf def felt kinda swingy as a solo player.
But also this is Deadlock
warped ridge
It's a lot of team killzone stuff
Also yeah, that's an excellent point for me to keep in mind
Cause like to me I already sorta naturally think about that stuff due to Tarkov
And lesser so due to like, Siege/Valorant/CS
ivory reef
I didnt watch the full video, didn't have the time, but I found the info given i...
Happy it helped star
still swan
Thanks
warped ridge
Which those killzone or "this is deathzone ball, avoid" become apparent once you figure out the threat zones
agile void
found it
earnest verge
There's a kind of person who's honestly very familiar with hero shooters and can...
yeah I've been like, one of the stronger players in my stack not because I can move or shoot or press buttons very well (I can't, though ofc I'm getting better at it), but because I do the macro/moba parts of the game reasonably well
warped ridge
Also the raw game feel of a Celeste in lane with the +1 stamina
sweet cobalt
Celeste is crazy goated
there was a player last night griping about celeste being cancer and even i'm like "nah dude she's just new"
still swan
I also found a build for Seven I really like
earnest verge
I know the value of farming and denying the enemy farm and such and it does a fair bit
still swan
Aka the ball spam build
Plus leech, magnum, and Seven's electric bullet stuff mesh very well together
agile void
let me see if I can find the moment
found it
https://youtu.be/wNKJwadJaiQ?t=129
||light warning because later he starts talking about why he kind of disappeared of the internet, Mom had pancreatic cancer last year so he basically made sure they spent as much time as possible together and also caring for her||
warped ridge
there was a player last night griping about celeste being cancer and even _i'm_ ...
See I def get the sentiment.
Like I was like, "no way she's real" when I first got deleted by her.
Then my friend explained how her abilities fully worked and I was like, "ahh I just died due to visual clutter and unfamiliarity"
Like she def feels really strong to me compared to all the other new chars but I'm waiting to see how I continue to feel about her after another 100 hours or so
agile void
there was a player last night griping about celeste being cancer and even _i'm_ ...
Even pros are like "dont allow her to exist"
so far, the only hero that earned that many bans was Kelvin in his prime
warped ridge
Egh
bleak thicket
if shes overpowered
she'll eat nerfs
still swan
I think i joined at a good time, personally
warped ridge
I feel so iffy on pros here.
Feels like another For Honor situation but I'm not familiar enough with Deadlock to know for sure
agile void
if shes overpowered
she'll eat nerfs
<:rooShrug:842863177837445161>
the one thing I wonder is what should be nerfed
warped ridge
I think i joined at a good time, personally
100%
still swan
First match was around Silver joining
warped ridge
So like
agile void
because honestly I feel you shouldnt get rid of the lower gravity thing
warped ridge
I think I figured out the current game match goofiness after looking up how a lot of people have been feeling + them verifying with alt accounts
agile void
stamina maybe but she is a trapecist, makes sense she has so many stamina bars
bleak thicket
i assume shell get a pass on the numbers oon her skills a bit
agile void
....what if they tie the gravity to the stamina?
bleak thicket
and leave her mobility alone
somber creek
I feel like her being able to natively fly in Lash style and solo ult someone is probably a bit too much for a Lich-like
bleak thicket
cause like
its super dota to have a hero thats like "no yeah you need this item for this hero, otherwise you lose"
somber creek
Lich could buy Blink, but Celeste can just fly
ivory reef
The idea that lich is slow is just not how dota works
Like he's in the team and he's gonna ult someone
bleak thicket
Lich *could buy* Blink, but Celeste can just fly
buy slowing hex
ivory reef
Like people keep complaining about her mobility but that's not really an issue tbh
warped ridge
Match Making Rating Ranks (not MMR itself) are all over the place and swingy
That's part why people feel like their matches don't make sense because they're too focused on the ranks.
The other reason is we have so many newer players due to influencers + char release + dead zone in other pvp games rn so a lot of people are joining deadlock with a wide net of skills and that's why there's a bunch of matches with very random individual performance.
It's def gonna be a wild time for a hot second and def play with some people and keep playing with them cause it'll help the game feel more consistent
But also it's def one of the best times to to start playing because so many people are joining with different skills from other games
ivory reef
Just tweak her numbers and maybe the seek radius on the bounce
ivory reef
Yeah it's just unclear
warm sonnet
There's also a different perspective to consider, you can see where Lich Ult is going to go far easier from a top-down perspective, whereas Circus Uniclown can move outside of your vision
ivory reef
A bit of clarity on the bounce will be nice
somber creek
buy slowing hex <:rooShrug:842863177837445161>
Slowing Hex doesnt stop the situation I just mentioned
warped ridge
especially with expansion on it
Wait does it get further with expansion? I can def believe it but haven't fought her enough to know and haven't tested 
somber creek
Ye it does
warped ridge
That is def good to know
warm sonnet
All areas of effect are affected by expansion
ivory reef
Slowing Hex doesnt stop the situation I just mentioned
It reduces her speed and dash speed
So yeah it does stop the situation
I dunno I've not struggled against Celeste movement at all
earnest verge
I would want to hear exactly why pros don't want to play against Celeste rather than making assumptions about it tbh, from her winrate I'm not sure she's necessarily overpowered so much as people don't like playing against her
warm sonnet
My biggest problem with Celest is that it revealed my most crippling weakness
I can't look up
ivory reef
Like you can shoot her and use knockdown
warped ridge
I can't win against Celeste in lane but I know I'm not playing harassers
Outside of lane I can def 1v1 her
still swan
My main concern with Celeste is the bouncing ball ult, but its a minor one (though I havent fought many Celestes)
ivory reef
I'm sure if they released vindicta right now people would be talking about how op bullshit it is that she can just fly
bleak thicket
also
vindicta literally has an ability called "flight"
ivory reef
Jinx
warped ridge
My main concern with Celeste is the bouncing ball ult, but its a minor one (thou...
Just gotta avoid it, it's not thaaat bad.
It just feels bad if you miss it due to visual clutter, it's what chonked me really hard at first
ivory reef
Yeah
earnest verge
Like, I've played a lot against Celestes but in none of my games has she been The Problem™
warped ridge
And also like
still swan
Yeah
earnest verge
she's often been significant, especially in early fights with her silence and such
still swan
Honestly my biggest enemy among enemy heroes is Billy
warped ridge
It does go around corners IIRC with the aoe part
somber creek
They have for me
still swan
Especially people good at Billy
bleak thicket
the ball does suck ass to get hit by
but a big part of that is were not used to it 
still swan
Ye
bleak thicket
and ill be honest, we suck ass at dispersing from lich ult in dota too
earnest verge
another difference between Deadlock and Dota in this comparison is that there's no Pipe of Insight in Deadlock, really
still swan
He had like a 15 kill streak or something
earnest verge
There's single-target barriers but I don't think there's like a really good spirit resist + spirit barrier item as such
ivory reef
I can't even counterspell it properly
warped ridge
the ball does suck ass to get hit by
It sucks yeh cause if you get hit once it doesn't do too much and then you get hit again and it starts hurting so if you ignore it cause damage doesn't hurt you get punished, very funny when you end up playing yourself with, "I can tank it!...oh nooOOO"
ivory reef
I think it keeps bouncing
bleak thicket
yeah its lich ult
quiet sapphire
its lich ult yeah
ivory reef
I'm sure there's some fiddly interactions they can sort out
quiet sapphire
slam it in a team fight
warped ridge
Can you curse it?
ivory reef
Her mobility is fine
bleak thicket
it punishes you for staying together
quiet sapphire
curse the ball?
still swan
Dont play Dota (or amy other moba tbh(
warm sonnet
CAST WICKED HEX UPON THE EVIL ORB
still swan
CAST WICKED HEX UPON THE EVIL ORB
Me when wizardmaxxing
stable forum
Aka the ball spam build
seven's magnificent o r b s!
They kill you with lightning, they're great!
still swan
Yeah I love the ball build
ivory reef
Like, I play mina. I generally end up with 5 stamina and the fastest stamina regen in the game, a property hard locked to just mina, AND I get a recastable flicker dodge
bleak thicket
seven ball build is real fun yeah
still swan
Ive also found that Seven's ult, while not the best at killing people (since they can just walk away), it is very good for area denial
ivory reef
That even lets me ignore stuff like bebop bombs
stable forum
Just tweak her numbers and maybe the seek radius on the bounce
yeaah, this is what i'd look at
still swan
(And groups where they can't move away obviously)
ivory reef
I'm honestly faster than Celeste
earnest verge
the seek radius does seem a bit large yeah
stable forum
seek radius on bounce, maybe daggers radius, and then either firerate or on-hit damage reduce a bit
ivory reef
I have had no issues running her down
I'd look at the ball seek radius and maybe some numbers
That's it
earnest verge
she can stay in the sky but is not otherwise particularly mobile yeah. Now, being able to go over buildings is great and all, but it's still hard to do it off of just stamina and I don't usually see majestic leap on her?
ivory reef
My gun also removes enemy stamina
stable forum
oh, right, sphere also isn't negated by counterspell I think? which is reasonable-ish i guesss
ivory reef
I'm excellent at hunting tiny women in the sky
still swan
Who do you main Winged?
ivory reef
Mina
still swan
Gotcha
earnest verge
the main issue I've had with her is that silver obviously can't do much to an aerial target while in werewolf form
quiet sapphire
oh, right, sphere also isn't negated by counterspell I think? which is reasonab...
yeah they've specifically made it so ults don't just get eaten by items
ivory reef
quiet sapphire
like the debuff remover changes to only remove non-ult debuffs
stable forum
yeah they've specifically made it so ults don't just get eaten by items
not... reallyy?
ivory reef
yeah they've specifically made it so ults don't just get eaten by items
No you can counterspell most ults
It's dota
stable forum
most ults get eaten by counterspell yes.
still swan
Does the Bulletproof active work against Venetor's ult
earnest verge
the most convenient anti-debuff items don't work on ults yeah
still swan
Because it gives you bullet immunity
stable forum
Does the Bulletproof active work against Venetor's ult
yes but only the bullet part
earnest verge
but Unstoppable and Counterspell definitely do, it's a big part of the game around Lash
stable forum
Metal Skin does not prevent on-hit effects
stable forum
but it should prevent the bullet damage.
quiet sapphire
yeah i misspoke but
bleak thicket
like the debuff remover changes to only remove non-ult debuffs
hasnt that always been the case for dispel magic/debuff remover?
stable forum
hasnt that always been the case for dispel magic/debuff remover?
no, DBR/Dispel Magic used to cleanse everything
stable forum
now only Divine Barrier cleanses everything
bleak thicket
oh full history shows it!
stable forum
DB cleanses pocket ult.
earnest verge
tbh the lack of a Pipe of Insight-like item is kinda weird, so many other Dota items have near-straight Deadlock counterparts, and Heroic Aura even gives bullet resist as an aura. but there's no counterpart for spirit.
bleak thicket
very much a case of "its always been this way" for me cause i only started playing after the change
stable forum
DB cleanses pocket ult.
huh, DB probably eats orb.
if orb is on you and not seeking another target, DB should remove it.
ivory reef
I'll try that
still swan
3d Moba
bleak thicket
love eating orbs
still swan
How long should you keep Monster Rounds if you get that item, btw?
stable forum
you should avoid consuming ball lightning or viscious when possible
still swan
I usually use it until we defeat the enemy Wallers, though sometimes a bit earlier
stable forum
How long should you keep Monster Rounds if you get that item, btw?
generally only sell items if you 'have' to due to buying something else
so like, varies.
bleak thicket
consuming viscous would probably hurt you more than it
still swan
Got it
finite patrol
Sure, sign me up for the EU stacks
Added
ivory reef
Gonna get ready for work
As a parting message I'll just say - hey there's a tendency when running into new characters and options to try and sand down the thing that makes them unique because people hate having to uniquely approach new problems and alter their existing game plans and wincons more than anything. More than anything
If you've ever played a fighting game you'll notice the grapplers get more hate than any other character even while always being low tier
Because you just have to run a different algorithm to fight them
We need to resist this urge and resist sanding stuff down
Like even if Celeste WAS overpowered for her movement, nerfing it would still be wrong
Because it's what makes her unique
The best characters break the rules in some specific insane way and are balanced in other ways
plain furnace
I'm teaching <@478649414974570519> how to play too and I usually spot them being...
I got that so often, where I get killed, and realize my team is already gone, or I was too far from them
ivory reef
Like Mina is the fastest character in the game and she vaporizes under any damage
agile void
not just the first damage tick
ivory reef
That's good design
We want to keep Celeste uniquely cool and annoying but give her weaknesses
Like if I'm nerfing Victor I wanna reduce his tankiness last
That kinda thing
agile void
I remember people calling victor a ticking time bomb
gray otter
Like if I'm nerfing Victor I wanna reduce his tankiness last
out of curiosity, if victor needed a nerf what would you nerf about him
bc his damage contributes directly to his tankiness
somber creek
Wait does Venator's ult genuinely do more damage against Mina and Drifter
agile void
Wait does Venator's ult genuinely do more damage against Mina and Drifter
i think its like
stable forum
it's like 20
somber creek
Hilarious
agile void
5 points more
gray otter
thats fucked lmao
agile void
thats fucked lmao
hey he is van helsing
ivory reef
out of curiosity, if victor needed a nerf what *would* you nerf about him
Honestly I'd take away his mobility or something
Make him really slow when he's using his stuff
That would make him a cool tarpit
gray otter
i can just imagine getting really mad if i died specifically because of the extra damage
ivory reef
That you can run away from or move around
Like you want to design characters to create unique problems
Every dota character is an insane and unique problem
And that's the fun
bleak thicket
i love playing shadow shaman in dota
cause if people dont address me i just stun them forever
gray otter
is there a rylais crystal scepter equivalent in deadlock
bleak thicket
god forbid i get to level 25 and have an octarine
then i can literally perma stun someone
still swan
Admittedly a lot of the dota references miss me as I do not play dotq and know nothing about it
gray otter
an item that makes your buttons slow people
quiet sapphire
is there a rylais crystal scepter equivalent in deadlock
mystic slow
still swan
Is leveling a thing in Dota as well?
median lantern
Is leveling a thing in Dota as well?
Yes
still swan
Gotcha
bleak thicket
you know
they should add an invoker like character to deadlock
quiet sapphire
bleak thicket
so people have to learn 1 billion abilities
gray otter
you know
they should add an invoker like character to deadlock
truth nuke
character who makes you change your wntire control scheme
quiet sapphire
port every dota hero into deadlock
gray otter
bc doing that stuff with 1234 sounds evil
quiet sapphire
i want pudge and bebop on my team
median lantern
bc doing that stuff with 1234 sounds evil
It’d probably just be the same as invoker wouldn’t it?
You just tap out a little ditty on your abilities and then press cast
gray otter
yeah
agile void
Playing Ff14 ninja in deadlock
gray otter
but if the buttons for it are in kind of a weird spot relative to your movement buttons
agile void
make 20 hand gestures to cast testicular torsion
median lantern
make a deadlock hero with motion inputs
agile void
~~make a deadlock hero with motion inputs~~
ok but genuinely
quiet sapphire
i'm not going to sugarcoat it.
2134-3 > 1134-1 > 3224-3
median lantern
ok but genuinely
I’m trying to decide if this means movement inputs or carving shapes in the air with your crosshair
twilit roost
~~make a deadlock hero with motion inputs~~
The steam deck locked hero that uses gyroscope
agile void
the one thing that might be against a motion input hero is
magic summit
you know
they should add an invoker like character to deadlock
I so wish
granite heath
port every dota hero into deadlock
This is exactly what I've been saying.
agile void
I’m trying to decide if this means movement inputs or carving shapes in the air ...
yeah that
magic summit
Please Yoshi add Rubick
quiet sapphire
sinclair is our rubick expy
quiet sapphire
introducing bugs into every new hero release
median lantern
The steam deck locked hero that uses gyroscope
warm sonnet
Sinclair steals Ults
Rialcnis steals Passives
granite heath
They don't know Sly...
agile void
rubick steals skills in general, right?
magic summit
I want every spell
gray otter
i should make a deadlock oc
warm sonnet
rubick steals skills in general, right?
Most recent spell cast
gray otter
thatd be fun
warm sonnet
Yea!
agile void
share it in the forums
quiet sapphire
rubick steals skills in general, right?
his ult steals the most recent spell a hero cast
agile void
they see stuff there
magic summit
i should make a deadlock oc
There is a website that helps with that but I forget the name of it
quiet sapphire
his ult steals the most recent spell a hero cast
which he holds on to for a handful of minutes
magic summit
Like it lets you type out custom abilities or items
vivid nimbus
How I **wish** deadlock had jg role
You've brought this up a few times, can I ask what you like most about dedicated jungle role?
gray otter
oo nice
i know i want the character to be deer themed but i have no clue what i want them to do
warm sonnet
John Doe
agile void
I just got curious
still swan
i should make a deadlock oc
Its a fun setting
agile void
what Aram mode does to a MF
still swan
Whats Deadlock's average player count anyways
agile void
80k last 24 hours
still swan
Neat
warped ridge
You've brought this up a few times, can I ask what you like most about dedicated...
Teamplay + dedicated dueling lane.
I like the dedicated fighting and the jg role with playstyle diversity/variety early on makes or super fun to me.
Even if you run a non meta build you can get by where in lane you have to put in so much more effort.
Like I still have issues in deadlock rn with laning phase where I'll go 0/4 as haze/doorman lane against a bebop/rem lane and there's nothing I can do but playsafe and pray.
But by the end of the game I'll be 22/7 because I'm much better once I'm not hardlocked to laning phase.
Like jg role means more teamplay potential for me
And it's entirely selfish and maybe not healthy for the game but it's the one thing I loved about playing most mobas
finite patrol
you know
they should add an invoker like character to deadlock
I would be shocked if they didn't
warped ridge
Heck it's the only reason I played a moba that wasn't smite
toxic gulch
But playing arcs doesn't help you not die to drifter
:3
warped ridge
Idk how to put it
It's weird for me to say that the solo role naturally makes me more of a team player than a game with no solo roles
I've even like
toxic gulch
I love mauling people as drifter
warped ridge
Body blocked clutch tanked ults as yi from jg in like league
gray otter
i know i want the character to be deer themed but i have no clue what i want the...
ok im having some ideas
i want them to be a durable character who has a bunch of utility and is really mobile on the ground
warped ridge
I tend to not get those sorts of experiences in deadlock enough. Maybe movement, maybe no free buy utility like flash or blink but ya know
agile void
I tend to not get those sorts of experiences in deadlock enough. Maybe movement,...
I feel like its just experience
toxic gulch
Drifter is genuinely a hero I seem to actually do pretty well on once I hit my stride. I guess cus it also puts me in the mindset of playing around and with my team cus I need to punish isolation or capitalize on opportunity
toxic gulch
Punishing junglers, slapping urn runs, and ambushing to help allies!
agile void
I think as haze
agile void
you need to be more aware of macro than anyone else
I remember doing my third match as haze and going 12/4/9
was I maybe with low MMR people?
warped ridge
Drifter is genuinely a hero I seem to actually do pretty well on once I hit my s...
Yeah I was worried about Drifter not being a true assassin and people saying he underperforms but even if I go negative in lane I still end up becoming spooky later on with an ever map wide "I'm in the bushes with a baseball bat" presence
agile void
yeah, but still I had the experience of the game and I just carried that game
the enemy was even smart enough to get curse and threw it at me
vivid nimbus
I don't think Drifter underperforms
agile void
I remember even in that match I was fighting an abrams in lane
agile void
I pursue him
toxic gulch
Counterpoint I have more souls than you and stole all your sinner’s sacrifice and bridge buffs
And you don’t have them
agile void
and proceed to ukt and murder him
agile void
because I dont have to worry about the slam stun
toxic gulch
Drifter is so fun
vivid nimbus
Drifter definitely has weaknesses but so does every hero, so IDK
toxic gulch
He has weaknesses and they’re multiplied by enemy team communication
But also
His strengths don’t go away
vivid nimbus
Yeah comms do make him weaker but you still see him in pro play sometimes so it's not like coordination dumpsters him
warped ridge
Forgive me Jaacker I just want to make sure you aren't spending effort on me
I'm not complaining or anything I'm just being a bit wistful cause it hasn't quite happened yet in deadlock.
Unless you're just talking about Haze to talk about Haze cause like, ye I like Haze
toxic gulch
Way I see it, an enemy team that communicates is just a different strategy. They’re gonna be isolated less and they’re gonna receive more info than others
But
That just means instead of focusing on isolated picks I focus on ambushing to help allies and also focus on STEALING THEIR FARM AHAHAHA
warped ridge
And also to be clear like
gray otter
Way I see it, an enemy team that communicates is just a different strategy. They...
i love stealing i love taking things
agile void
Forgive me Jaacker I just want to make sure you aren't spending effort on me
I'...
just sharing my experiences, no issue directly with you
toxic gulch
Just because they’re communicating doesn’t mean I’m not a sneaky bastard
And I can hear heartbeats
I’ve also got info gathering it’s awesome
I love drifter
warped ridge
In that case yeh, Haze and macro is super important
agile void
the only thing that annoyed me was the slowing hex bit but that was more of you not knowing the function of the item
vivid nimbus
From what you talk about Reverb, I think that you'd definitely like Holliday if you got her movement down
warped ridge
the only thing that annoyed me was the slowing hex bit but that was more of you ...
I'm trying to refrain more from talking about items cause with that I'm more realizing my common experience is like
quiet sapphire
who was it? blood seeker?
eh I feel like drifter isn't really comparable to bloodseeker
vivid nimbus
Because she's a huge roaming+teamwork hero but she really wants you to do source engine air strafing
warped ridge
"This item would never do this, it doesn't make sense" or, "why doesn't this item work as expected, I read it and everything!" And then I quit reading items because they don't seem to work how I read them anyways so I just try my best to vibe them out
vivid nimbus
And still provides team value while behind in souls
agile void
also drifter ult
blindness?
in a shooter?
that shit is strong
remember that in pro play there were drifters doing refresher to have like 20 seconds of blindness
you tell me 20 seconds of only being able to see 30 meters away from you is not strong?
warped ridge
Blind is like
agile void
In a shooter?
vivid nimbus
Very fair TBH
warped ridge
Like to me I'd prefer their ults swapped
Because I don't feel we're ever getting Old Haze back (for good reason)
agile void
haze ult is more of a single target ult unless you get rico
warped ridge
Yeh
vivid nimbus
Like to me I'd prefer their ults swapped
Sorry but the mental image of Drifter doing the bullet dance animation made me crack up
finite patrol
well she is an assassin
agile void
tbh in theming they make sense
warped ridge
Unless I build for it
warped ridge
Yeh
astral lava
it is weird that her lore is "goes in to dreams to kill people" and then thats not really in her kit
make her Pocket Riki
warped ridge
But my last few games of Haze I just kinda, m1 people and it does similar to ult most of the time
agile void
it is weird that her lore is "goes in to dreams to kill people" and then thats...
I mean she sleeps daggers you
so she sleeps you then kills you
warped ridge
But also that's because I usually don't whiff and I'm coming with like, better aim than some marvel rivals and overwatch pros
Also like
Ult doesn't headshot 😭
No I actually can out dps my ult if I really try and buy like headshot booster
It's such a weird experience
vivid nimbus
I do see some people just save it for when they're reloading and the target isn't dead
warped ridge
Ye, I can see that
I could build path better cause like I'll build active reload
And then I don't sell it
stable forum
But my last few games of Haze I just kinda, m1 people and it does similar to ult...
headbeaming people actually does more dps than ult
agile void
I could build path better cause like I'll build active reload
tbh why would you sell it?
its an extra mag
extra 120 bullets
stable forum
active reload is fine to not sell? is a good item. bullet lifesteal is nice.
I think I've been seeing decent hazes push active reload over quicksilver
warped ridge
Well if my rotation is shoot-> ult
Then active reload I don't think procs, or if you do it doesn't buff the ult
I think but maybe I'm wrong
stable forum
i think mostly because of the bullet lifesteal on active reload?
quiet sapphire
plus fire rate
stable forum
Well if my rotation is shoot-> ult
Then active reload I don't think procs, or if...
hm? Yeah, you'd have to trigger it manually.
quiet sapphire
it's just a good item
agile void
at that point its like
stable forum
plus fire rate
qsr, the thing in competition here, aaalso gives firerate
toxic gulch
haze ult is more of a single target ult unless you get rico
I love using it to help out a teammate or two
agile void
dump your mag
toxic gulch
Just like
warped ridge
Yeh, can't trigger it while ulting right?
agile void
active reload
vivid nimbus
Well, with active reload I imagine you probably want to use it after clip one and then ult after clip two
warped ridge
Oh you know what
warped ridge
Maybe instead like
agile void
target isnt dead?
toxic gulch
Two lane partners are fighting , drifter hops in and gives them blindness and everything goes wrong for them
It’s great
agile void
wtf have you build tbh if they ate two whole mags and ult
stable forum
Yeh, can't trigger it while ulting right?
you can trigger it before
warped ridge
Magdump-> active reload -> trigger active reload-> ult
toxic gulch
Alternatively, good for helping allies retreat!!
stable forum
Magdump-> active reload -> trigger active reload-> ult
yeah this should work well!
warped ridge
Rather than mag dumping a 2nd time
toxic gulch
People panic when they’re blinded and even when they don’t it’s hard to secure kills when you’re blind!
warped ridge
Yeah I didn't think about that cause like Jaacker said usually they'll die in the 2nd mag dump and yeah I notice they usually just die
toxic gulch
Drifter ult is imo very good info gathering and helping your team. It’s incredible use in ambushes is almost secondary to me, cus it’s there but I don’t use it as much for that
stable forum
but generally active reload before haze ult is solid
active reload gives you bullet lifesteal, which is uhh
good
stable forum
I see a decent amount of intentionally triggering active reload for the bullet lifesteal.
vivid nimbus
Magdump-> active reload -> trigger active reload-> ult
Oh I see, hmm
warped ridge
Where the bullet evasion would come in
Mcginnis gun or against wraith or Geist?
Maybe silver too?
agile void
Oh I see, hmm
that is a tech, I never did it playing haze but it makes sense to do it like that
stable forum
i think the bullet evasion is weird to use generally, it's less 'thing you want always' and more 'thing you want sometimes based on teamcomp
versus silver makes sense, yeah.
if you want to be able to contest werewolf form with haze ult, you sorta need the evasion i think
stable forum
(you also cannot contest werewolf form without haze ult)
yeaa
you can just hit her with sleep dagger though
warped ridge
You can ult while disarmed as Haze right or am I wrong?
stable forum
haze ult ignores disarm, yes.
agile void
or dispel magic
stable forum
counterspell the disarm
goood luuuck
i've never seen a successful disarm counterspell i think
warped ridge
True but I usuall don't build cleanse on haze unless it's unstoppable
stable forum
at least not a purposeful one.
warped ridge
Actually does Mina ult count as gun?
quiet sapphire
it builds up her love bites i know that for sure
vivid nimbus
i've never seen a successful disarm counterspell i think
You could probably predict it, a lot of Silvers will leap in and immediately hit the disarm
warm sonnet
It ain't a gun, afaik
vivid nimbus
And those that don't are probably doing leap -> bite instead
quiet sapphire
but yeah dont think mina ult procs something like toxic bullets
quiet sapphire
yes
vivid nimbus
Yeah it's gun
quiet sapphire
you can disarm him
warped ridge
ulting for bullet evasion against ven ult
quiet sapphire
stable forum
Actually does Mina ult count as gun?
no
stable forum
You could probably predict it, a lot of Silvers will leap in and immediately hit...
oh, i thought you meant disarming hex
yeah that would have to be a read.
merry verge
I buy Disarming Hex/Phantom Strike on Silver and then save the tail swipe for after/if they dispel
stable forum
Is Venerator ult gun?
venator's ult is a gun for like all purposes actually
stable forum
I buy Disarming Hex/Phantom Strike on Silver and then save the tail swipe for af...
I am considering Echo Shard Silver
merry verge
Venator gormlessly hopping around for like 10 seconds
warped ridge
venator's ult is a gun for like all purposes actually
Even metal skin? Cause I thought it hits for pure damage
vivid nimbus
I am considering Echo Shard Silver
Does the imbue apply to both abilities on her?
stable forum
metal skin works against the bullet component i think
stable forum
Does the imbue apply to both abilities on her?
warped ridge
Oohhh
merry verge
/also will say Silver performed super Averagely in Nightshift she's so counterable people
stable forum
yes, it applies to everything on the button
stable forum
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281742836878020722/1470791404249809098/i...
this was a funny thing to get
80% disarm uptime
quiet sapphire
first item echo shard sand blast mo n krill is back?
stable forum
a
earnest verge
/also will say Silver performed super Averagely in Nightshift she's so counterab...
Her statistics are below average at all levels, I think she's just really fun to play and also people remember the Silvers that wolfed all over them and their team a lot more clearly than they remember the Silvers who got nothing done all game
stable forum
/also will say Silver performed super Averagely in Nightshift she's so counterab...
yeaaa, I'm currently on 'buy dispell magic & ethereal shift'
stable forum
Her statistics are below average at all levels, I think she's just really fun to...
I think silver is hard
I think she's also potentially very strong
merry verge
Drifter feels way more threatening baseline
stable forum
but she's hard
I'd disagree >.>
you simply Cannot Fight Silver while she is transformed
if she is anywhere close to even farm, you simply Do Not
merry verge
Slow stun curse climb ropes.. fly away..
stable forum
Slow stun curse climb ropes.. fly away..
I am also on 'buy vortex web'
warped ridge
I feel for Silver a lot of people like wolfmodding and they struggle with her hase kit
And like to me
stable forum
Silver's base kit is good!
quiet sapphire
bola is actually insane if you look at it
warped ridge
Silver's base kit is good and like, what people should think about more if they want to play her
stable forum
bola is really good yeah!
warped ridge
Like her shotgun + point blank is peak
stable forum
I am genuinely considering echo shard on silver 3
for the double bola / double disarm
warped ridge
Omg I gotta remember that like
Echo shard is not the tele item
And it's the ability refresh item
warped ridge
I know Idk why I keep thinking it's warp stone
stable forum
I am genuinely considering echo shard on silver 3
it would be over vweb
merry verge
Sometimes you buy an active and you remember it exists 5 minutes later
warped ridge
Sometimes you buy an active and you remember it exists 5 minutes later
Weirdly enough I don't but I like, physically cringe when I buy an active
earnest verge
I mean Silver's werewolf form is definitely the thing that actually makes her worth the slot on the team, but yeah you gotta be really good with the base kit to get there and admittedly you could say "they need their ult to be worth the slot" about nearly any hero.
(with noted exceptions like, uh, Infernus, Abrams, probably Rem...)
warped ridge
I'm so bad about like, not wanting to buy actives
quiet sapphire
"they need to be able to use their hero"
warped ridge
Cause I just go "but I don't want to hit 1 more button"
quiet sapphire
woah really??? :P
silver is the raleigh of deadlock
subscribe for more sage advice
warped ridge
"they need to be able to use their hero"
Silver is a bit unique cause she's the first transforming hero in the game
merry verge
And she has to build to it by doing damage
warped ridge
A lot of people just look at her and go, "She's Morbin!"
merry verge
Can't just slam it at the start of a fight
warped ridge
Is that how it works? I thought it was damage taken only
merry verge
Damage done
warped ridge
I've killed so many people before I've gotten the ult
stable forum
Is that how it works? I thought it was damage taken only
it's damage dealt
but she gets passive buildup too
while in combat
quiet sapphire
They made it take like 600 more damage to transform lategame
and fair enough tbh