Deadlock

[toxic gulch]

I suppose if you get a couple gun upgrades

[final osprey]

same reason you build Compressed cooldown early on Mo and Krill ult

[toxic gulch]

You still get value out of your spirit shit

Cus you just

Make your bullets do spirit

[vast sandal]

don't you want to use balls mostly as Seven

since they're huge. and angry.

[agile void]

you need to have people stay in the balls

best way to do so is your 2

[toxic gulch]

Well the balls and the 3 are like

Both spirit

So

Ballin and shooting

Both give you your spirit value no?

[vast sandal]

yeah I was more wondering about the focus 1 or focus 3 enigma

[lavish grove]

Also personally, I love stamina mastery on seven

[toxic gulch]

Nodnod

[lavish grove]

Since it combined with your 3 gives you great mobility

[vast sandal]

2 is obvious because 2 is, uhhh, goated?

[toxic gulch]

Yeah

Stun their asses mhm mhm

I’ll need to go find a build to steal the shit out of and Modify but

Yeah yeah

Thanks

[agile void]

most builds prefer 3 over 1 first

why?

less spirit res

[toxic gulch]

I see

[vast sandal]

ah, I see

[agile void]

so you get t2, then from there you either get max ball or max 3

[vast sandal]

hmm

maybe I don't want to learn Paradox

[final osprey]

You also want fire rate, but you can get enough from like Magnum and Suge of Power.

I want to play paradox so bad but I'm so trash

[autumn field]

iirc trans cooldown on seven is really good

[vast sandal]

I mean yeah

Seven is Caster Man

[agile void]

there is also a discussion over wheter Infuser or leech is better on seven

[vast sandal]

more spells = more Seven

[ivory reef]

oh @vast sandal did you see the night shift stuff i posted in the main vgd channel

and holliday movement

[vast sandal]

yeah

[gray otter]

damn i didnt know that, congrats to cooldown

[ivory reef]

good yes

[gray otter]

whoops sorry for ping

[ivory reef]

like, I think a problem even deathy's content has is that it's all solo queue stuff. like I do appreciate his yamato thought breakdown video a lot

but there's a night and day difference between general positioning when you're actually actually working together and really locked in

lot of like "and now the entire team descends upon the bridge buff like wasps"

and I wanna showcase that stuff here more

[agile void]

doesnt Poshy take that angle more?

[ivory reef]

oh do post that to me

[agile void]

this is an old one but it might be what you want
https://youtu.be/qaNLY8Rbyws

[vast sandal]

yeah I think Paradox might be reserved for players who know more about how to play Deadlock than me

[ivory reef]

no see this is more solo queue stuff

it's coaching people solo queueing

[ivory reef]

bunnydox is a cool paradox player if you wanna see neat compilations of stuff paradox can do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORpFj7VjC7I

[vast sandal]

oh that ult cooldown kinda short huh

[ivory reef]

yeah

good paradox play is just like, understanding you are secretly just playing doom

[agile void]

I though it was good since he does more specific breakdowns

[ivory reef]

you just have a pile of amazing guns

and you can just use them all constantly

[agile void]

he is doing breakdowns of the new heroes these past few videos

and also he talked about the meta or why cultsac was so popular

[vast sandal]

you have Carbine, you have Swap, you have a decent gun

[ivory reef]

it is a lot of fundamentals

like look at how she escapes at 1:50

anyone can do that

[agile void]

carbine is also a movement skill

[vast sandal]

yeah I know Carbine lets Paradox float

[agile void]

despite not being a 2

[agile void]

no no

[ivory reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU0w4T9wLgw

[agile void]

she can sling shot herself with carbine

[vast sandal]

okay, please tell me more

[agile void]

https://www.dlmovement.wiki/hero/paradox#kinetic_carbine_aerial_momentum_cancel

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1nx9are/insane_paradox_movement_tech_bug/

[vast sandal]

oh you just cancel the slowdown at the end of airdash with time stop

[agile void]

no, you basically do a microsecond Ads to store a bit of speed

[vast sandal]

it's literally a Guilty Gear air fast cancel

[ivory reef]

I will note this is 4 months old

i'm not sure the specific thing they're doing there can still be done

[agile void]

still there

its listed in the movement wiki

[vast sandal]

like if I'm not mistake the idea here is that

[ivory reef]

no that's not the same thing

the deadlock movement wiki is talking about alt fire tricks

[vast sandal]

when you ads while Kinetic Carbine, you stop time for yourself

[ivory reef]

this movement bug you posted is just scope tapping

[vast sandal]

allowing you to float if you're doing normal movement

[agile void]

?

[vast sandal]

but if you're already going fast (ie dashing) and then you self-timestop briefly, that overrides the natural slowdown on airdash

and you keep the momentum of an airdash

[ivory reef]

yeah i'm trying it in game

i'm not sure how effective this is

I can't get this carbine aerial speed dash thing to work

[ivory reef]

oh, that, like. is that even still a thing you can do? sorry I was looking at the momentum cancels earlier

i'm in the hideout I can't do it

https://forums.playdeadlock.com/threads/paradox-air-dash-speed-bugged-with-kinetic-carbine.101775/

we should remove it from the movement wiki tbh

i'm pretty sure it was just a bug that just got patched

Hey! The Deadlock Movement Wiki will be merging with the main Deadlock Wiki! It'll take a while to merge, and while we're doing that, the wiki will remain up. — compsoter 2026/01/15 01:18

hmm okay may not be worth fixing the movement wiki

it's being integrated into the main wiki right now

anyway @agile void could catch but like, we gotta be careful about nebulous fleet command syndrome when playing a game going through active alpha dev

I dunno what else to call it

<@&942093958551588904> all the neb players will know what I mean

[finite grotto]

Wait there are guns with alt fires in deadlock?

[toxic gulch]

WAUGH

[ivory reef]

@mild flume has constantly had to run into scenarios where everyone says that a particular trick works and then he goes and tests it out himself and it just. doesn't.

and it turns out that like literally everyone was just quoting other people

[toxic gulch]

I have Gotta get myself outta that tag cus I haven’t played in ages

[vast sandal]

Only a few

[ivory reef]

and nobody has ever tested it out or tried it in a scientific manner

[woven nacelle]

..Where am I? What is this place?

[snow ivy]

raising my eyes from the fleet editor and realising that deadlock exists

[ivory reef]

they just hoped or assumed it worked

[toxic gulch]

Deadlocked

And you can’t get out!!!

[vast sandal]

Welcome to the Baroness.

[finite grotto]

Ohhh

[ivory reef]

yeah sorry talking about like, ludic rumors? I thought you guys would have experience

[woven nacelle]

Oh. Huh. Hi, bye. Might turn up at some point.

[ivory reef]

tldr there's a 4 month old bug on a character i'm pretty sure no longer exists

[snow ivy]

I have the game, I should really learn to play since I don't really have a casual dota-type deal in my catalogue right now

[ivory reef]

i can't replicate it in game

[finite patrol]

Welcome to my devious jumping puzzle.

[agile void]

I saw generic edboi do it like... 2 or 3 weeks ago

[mossy lance]

this was the torpedo/missile story, right?

[cosmic mirage]

I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED-oh hi Ashley

[ivory reef]

but someone here thought it existed, still, reasonably. because it's in the wiki

[agile void]

unless the latest update changed it

[snow ivy]

it has been a long time since I put like 60 hours into Lone Druid

[ivory reef]

maybe there's a trick to it i'm missing

[agile void]

I just assumed it was there

[snow ivy]

and yeah, most of Neb discourse remains rumours

[ivory reef]

but airdashing and tapping ads does not make me go fast

[ivory reef]

yeah that dumb torpedo missile trick

everyone swore it worked and till tested it and it literally just didn't

[vast sandal]

I think the idea is to do it when you are accelerating

[snow ivy]

a bunch of actual tech also comes into the test branch of Neb and then leaves the test branch of Neb before people can actually get to grips with it

[ivory reef]

and like a 10,000 person discord all believed it worked

[mossy lance]

still fucking hilarious

lmao

[vast sandal]

I’m loading in to try

[agile void]

I will just straight up ask in the paradox channel

[ivory reef]

hmmmmmmmm.

maybe it's based on your ads settings?

I have toggle ads

[woven nacelle]

blink blink
We have been summoned?
reads up
Oh!

(Hi Winged. :) )

[snow ivy]

I remember when me and Tom sat down to test out damage mechanics and within about two hours of experimentation we figured out that 90% of all prior discussion about how Nebulous' armour and damage systems worked was complete nonsense and that two mechanics named the same thing were actually different things

[gray otter]

what the fuck

[snow ivy]

at least they renamed them to two different things in the next patch

there was a % damage reduction and a flat do-over-x-damage-to-kill mechanic both called "DR"

[mossy lance]

oh my god

[agile void]

you pretty much tap it, maybe change the setting

[vast sandal]

what does Kinetic Carbine actually do other than damage

[ivory reef]

where IS the setting

to toggle ads

[snow ivy]

the hilarious thing about that test session is that the two things with identical names was like ten minutes of confusion on the side and the everything-is-nonsense realisation was to do with completely different mechanics

[vast sandal]

Alt-fire

[snow ivy]

anyway we were right and now people don't talk nonsense about scraping radar panels off with prox fuse

[ivory reef]

hmm

okay maybe there's a speed boost but it's really minimal?

do you double tap it?

[vast sandal]

jaacker please teach us the specifics of how to Kinetic Carbine momentum cancel lol

I am very much getting the appropriate self-timestop effect and stuff

[ivory reef]

yeah i'm not noticing any measurable speedup

[agile void]

Why i get myself into a conversation about the videogame when im not at home

[ivory reef]

anyway thanks misc o7

just wanted to like. talk about the value of testing testing testing I guess

when it comes to alpha games

[agile void]

Paradox channel doesnt say anything for now

[ivory reef]

zooming back a bit: you don't need special movement techs to make paradox good

[snow ivy]

yeah, very few of my builds have not benefitted from 30 minutes in the lab

[gray otter]

how does that even happen (everything being nonsense)

[snow ivy]

although it helps that Neb has an actual lab, which many alpha games don't

you can just go into the test range and start spawning stuff and poking mechanics

[magic summit]

Everyone convincing each other that you used to be able to use Euls on allies

[snow ivy]

nobody tested it, I guess

[ivory reef]

neb is just a game that makes testing really hard

[snow ivy]

hell, it took us several months to get around to testing it

[ivory reef]

cause it's all like combat at 50 kilometers involving an enemy team that is all blips

and you need 10 minutes to maneuver into position

it means that to do a proper test you need to set up a custom game with like two people synching video and looking at the same thing from multiple perspectives

[wild crystal]

Getting hard numbers out is also fiddly

[ivory reef]

otherwise you're just sorta... firing missiles into the abyss

[mossy lance]

its very deliberately paced with very deliberate interactions which HONESTLY you can't keep tabs on 100% of the time

[ivory reef]

and sometimes people die?

[mossy lance]

because yeah lmao

[ivory reef]

and you assume it's because you are correct and your lucky sock is working

[mossy lance]

fire, forget, and cross your fingers are legit strategies because of the fog of war (in regards to not just map, but whether equipment is functioning) and other factors

[snow ivy]

also figuring out how it actually worked rather than "eh I dunno" required us to fire individual rounds at individual places on a ship, record the % damage values and then work that backward to figure out what flat damage was actually done to what things

you could not do that in a real match

[ivory reef]

yeah you need to do a lot of grinding science

[snow ivy]

and then occasionally get your moment of inspiration, where you realise your test dummy ship with zero repair capacity isn't dying to fire so something odd is going on

[wary cobalt]

marking another tally on the people telling me to play deadlock line, just with a neb ping this time

[snow ivy]

whereas any real cruiser would have put the fire out 10 minutes ago so you'd never have seen that interaction if you were only labbing real builds

[earnest verge]

There was once a mechanic in Dominions associated with certain summonable evil archangels, where they had a very low chance to convert enemy commanders every round
It was widely known about and discussed
Except
It never existed
Everyone just thought it did because of a display error in a popular third-party tool that let you easily browse the stats of every unit in the game

[ivory reef]

oof

[earnest verge]

And this only came out after I noticed the absence of the mechanic in the beta test for the fifth game and told the devs it wasn't working right

They were very confused

[ivory reef]

https://tenor.com/view/girls-band-cry-nina-iseri-subaru-awa-nina-subaru-gif-10007284347727927424

god this is giving me flashbacks to that one op gun

that actually was op because the sound design was too sick

[vast sandal]

lmao

[ivory reef]

most haunting game dev story of my life

that someday i'm gonna give one team in a game an op advantage because their background music is kero kero bonito or something

[median lantern]

It’s interesting going back and looking at forum posts from back then

[ivory reef]

so they have better mental

[median lantern]

It’s a mix of

• people who firmly believe the gun was really better
• people posting the stats to show they’re the same
• people who like the MP40 anyway

[vast sandal]

yeah I'm not gonna lie

I have no idea what Paradox is cooking as a hero

this character, just like feeling it out, feels very uhhh

[mystic breach]

good ol Enemy Territory

[gray otter]

huh what

[median lantern]

Now I think, if there was an objective difference it’s that the snappier and less tinny report made it easier to hear the individual shots

Which makes it easier to accurately track on shot

[violet whale]

bruh

[ivory reef]

imagine this: you make a ww2 shooter because it's the 2000s. everyone tells you the starting gun from one side is just better than the gun from the other side.

[median lantern]

Since both guns were relatively low ROF

[ivory reef]

as a dev you know this is horseshit because they are the same gun

like you programmed the game

they have identical stats

you just gave them different gun models and names

but everyone starts with the same damn gun

but the players insist, no no. this one gun is better

[median lantern]

I should also note that this starting gun is what about 80-90% of people are using at a given time

[agile void]

ok it was patched, confirmed in the channel

[ivory reef]

annoyed, you open up the stats

and holy shit. it is better

like people using gun A get more kills than people using gun B

statistically

[agile void]

I apologize for the rumor spread

[ivory reef]

why? wtf?

[ivory reef]

<333 no no thank you jaacker. helps with an important lesson

i'm glad I checked

you used a real authoritative source of info

but we gotta keep checking when stuff seems suss

anyway

[median lantern]

There’s a lot of wrinkles here too since the game has asym maps and the Thompson Shooters are traditionally offense

[ivory reef]

so yeah: one gun is better. why?

and eventually after loads of investigation you figure it out

one gun sounds better

because each gun has a different sound design

because one gun sounds more powerful, players were playing more aggressively with it, more correctly

and playing better

[median lantern]

But I believe the kill difference persists when you normalize for that (and people can pick up the other side’s guns)

[ivory reef]

and getting more kills

so they had to nerf the gun's amazing gun sounds

[gray otter]

HOLY SHIT

[ivory reef]

it was a WILD dev story

[median lantern]

I played a lot of enemy territory way back when

[dusky flume]

I can play Paradox like a Doomguy? You have my sudden attention.

[ivory reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDxiuHdR_T4

this is a real thing real devs had to do

[agile void]

wasnt there some stories in lol about like

[gray otter]

why couldnt they buff the other gun

[agile void]

the nerf didnt happened because og an error

[ivory reef]

yeah that could also work

like either one would work

they decided to go with this one for reasons

[agile void]

but the win rates lowered even though the nerf didnt go through?

Or am I tripping?

[median lantern]

There’s a lot of stuff like that yeah

[vast sandal]

like am I tripping or does Paradox not feel like she has a decisive, uh, anything in her toolkit

[median lantern]

LoL also has instances where a champion is nerfed and their winrate goes up

[finite grotto]

Yeeee

[median lantern]

Because fotms leave or because an off playstyle stopped being used

[finite patrol]

what does this mean

[ivory reef]

no you're right

in fact I wouldn't be surprised if she got an update at some point

the earlier deadlock hero designs feel like 2000s dota designs

they're not amazing. they have their advantages?

[vast sandal]

so like, Seven has an orb that beats the fucking shit out of you

[ivory reef]

like the nice thing about -old- hero design is that because they're kinda incoherent they open up a lot more build variety and player experimentation

that's why people like them still to this day

[vast sandal]

Doorman has a cart, portals, and his ult sends you to jail

[woven nacelle]

I suddenly got listed as following this? Weird glitch

[ivory reef]

like paradox is deadlock's version of vengeful spirit from dota

and vengeful spirit can be a hard support or even a pos 1 carry

based on how you build her

and paradox is also just, like, a woman with 4 random tricks

[upbeat perch]

paradox ult makes sure enemy team members ought to know better than to overextend

[finite patrol]

Oh. You mean shes not flashy?

[ivory reef]

so you can build around any trick

[vast sandal]

Paradox doesn't have a tool that makes it feel like "yeah that's it, that's what you're cooking"

[dusky flume]

Is Paradox's kit particularly generic or just underbaked?

[ivory reef]

it's just sorta midrange

if that makes sense

[agile void]

I think its just generic

[ivory reef]

if you play mtg I hope that makes sense

[agile void]

strong bomb

strong protection

[ivory reef]

sometimes people make decks that have no theme it's just a pile of goodstuff cards

[agile void]

strong single shot

[mossy lance]

it Does It All p.much

[median lantern]

Some people just get “some good moves now go sandbox”

[agile void]

the only "weird" thing is the swap

[ivory reef]

a pile of enough individual things that are individually good can make a good deck

[finite patrol]

Carbine wall swap grenade is a pretty solid combo

[ivory reef]

paradox is like that

[agile void]

yeah like pot of greed in yugioh is just a good card

[finite grotto]

I am on shitty train WiFi so I can't find the august clip

[finite patrol]

like all her skills have synergies

[agile void]

regardless of what is built around it

[ivory reef]

@vast sandal if you're looking for a more coherent all around character then yeah I recommend others

what are you looking for?

[mossy lance]

theres no cohessive playstyle so much as a big toolbox to pull from and fuck around and mix/match with

[ivory reef]

vindicta and grey talon are more coherent snipers, and grey talon is amazingly mobile

[vast sandal]

support other n' Doorman so I don't get too reliant on one trick

[ivory reef]

he starts with 4 stamina

he doesn't look like he shmooves

but he's insanely ripped with his cardio routine

[finite patrol]

Paige!

[ivory reef]

old guy can fucking book it

[agile void]

grey talon speed scales with spirit btw

so if you boundless spirit on that old man

he is usain bolting

[ivory reef]

okay so "support" is like. I suspect it's kinda short circuiting you here

[lavish grove]

What the fuck are they feeding that old man?

[finite grotto]

Hybrid ivy! (I think)

[ivory reef]

remove the word support from your search

what are you trying to do?

[vast sandal]

honestly I just wanted to play the Scottish woman but she doesn't seem interesting

[ivory reef]

what are you looking for?

oh that's fair sorry to hear that

venator is an irish guy?

[vast sandal]

I'm not Irish though.

[ivory reef]

fwiw I like paradox a bunch and she was my first hero I played

ahh

[median lantern]

I haven’t played a lot of Deadlock actually is support just not really a role?

[vast sandal]

anyways idk I like Doormanning better than being the Damage Maxxer

[upbeat perch]

if you zoom in from "support", which specific facet are you looking for? damage mitigation? crowd control? punishing people out of position?

[lavish grove]

Not really

There’s characters with support abilities but it’s not a role like it is in say league

[ivory reef]

no it's more like. you need to not think in those terms when trying to figure out people you wanna play as a new player I guess

like you need to be more specific

[median lantern]

I should probably clarify I mean support more like “Thresh Torment Nexus” than “Mercy Overwatch”

[lavish grove]

Due to how the lane system works roles are way older then there are in league

[vast sandal]

what I've been enjoying about The Door Man is that he can make plays crazy hard

[ivory reef]

ah okay, playmakers yeah

[lavish grove]

There’s no designated guy who goes with another guy to help them

[vast sandal]

you just show up and your enemies are like "oh no it's the Man of Door"

[ivory reef]

honestly: dynamo?

[lavish grove]

If that’s your definition

[finite patrol]

dynamo and ivy

[vast sandal]

I was kinda thinking Dynamo

[gray otter]

who are the tankiest heroes

[finite patrol]

fly is a wild skill for Making Shit Happen

[lavish grove]

Abrams, Mo and Krill, Billy

[ivory reef]

I even have a bunnydox for this

[finite patrol]

Mo n Krill, Abrams, Billy, Shiv

[gray otter]

ah ok i should try billy

[lavish grove]

He’s very fun

[gray otter]

he seems fun

[ivory reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbmPoWGExjU&t=1m50s

[lavish grove]

Oh also Victor

[ivory reef]

1:50 onwards

[lavish grove]

Victor is our resident “never fucking dies” dude

[ivory reef]

that's the play: you warp stone in, black hole, refresher, black hole

you win the game

[finite grotto]

Billy feels amazing to play

[ivory reef]

a good dynamo is like. game defining

the entire game becomes about avoiding and stopping the dynamo

or protecting your dynamo

[finite grotto]

Shooting, bonking with light melees and getting ammo refunded

[upbeat perch]

man, black hole refresher black hole is such a moba thing

[vast sandal]

Dynamo seems like he's, yanno, a Size Large bastard that enters the fight and then the enemy team goes "goddamnit"

[ivory reef]

it is the teamfight ult of the game

[ivory reef]

he's also an absolute sweetheart

vibes off the charts

[gray otter]

ooobh ok i should try victor and billy

[finite grotto]

not when I play them guh

[upbeat perch]

ravage/golem refresh ravage/golem energy

[gray otter]

i love drain tanks like victor

[finite patrol]

Bebop is also a playmaker

[dusky flume]

I would like to see what sort of characters & all I do best with. Right now, I'm just looking things up and experimenting as I go.

[agile void]

Its pretty funny to me how he is sniper

[dusky flume]

Like, Ven gets pushed on me by some people I know because "hey, I played soldier 76 a lot", but...this is a MOBA. Different conxtext.

[median lantern]

Who is the character with the Cube?

[lavish grove]

Viscous

[ivory reef]

dynamo's quantum entanglement is also a playmaker

[median lantern]

Thanks

[gray otter]

viscous

[warped ridge]

Doorman

[gray otter]

the slime

[ivory reef]

because it undoes other plays

[agile void]

so I just imagine dynamo saying "YOU WANKERS"

[warped ridge]

Oh you mean the green cube

[vast sandal]

ah so the point of Quantum is to activate it when That Garbage is on its way

[warped ridge]

I was thinking cube dimension

[finite grotto]

Lash is also pretty playmaking I think?

[ivory reef]

yeah like if im' playing lash

[gray otter]

is it just me or is victor's spirit scaling weirdly high

[ivory reef]

i simply cannot ult while its off cooldown

[finite grotto]

Ya

[ivory reef]

the dynamo will save their entire damn team from part 2

[lavish grove]

It is, he’s a spirit tank

[finite grotto]

And he got a banger gun

[merry verge]

He's also incredibly strong right now

[lavish grove]

Generally I don’t build a single gun item when I play him

[agile void]

If they dont counterspell you or dont use silence wave before

[merry verge]

They just nerfed his spirit scaling

[lavish grove]

I rush spirit and green

[finite grotto]

I need to get 4,8 gun in my viktors builds. ATM I am just playing for battery with green spirit and I don't fully vibe with it

[lavish grove]

Most I get eventually is healing tempo

[upbeat perch]

is it common for people to choose their heroes based on gunfeel rather than spells?

[agile void]

but yeah hard support doesnt really exists, the closest thing is paige and even then she doesnt have actual healing

[finite grotto]

Can be for sure

[agile void]

compared to like dynamo or rem

[warped ridge]

If they're a shooter player

[lavish grove]

Yup

[plain furnace]

Hmmmmm
I thin i'm stuck fighting players way above my league
Like, each match more or less goes: My lane gets hard pressured and eliminated, and it snowballs from there. Regularly when trying to farm outside the lanes, the fed enemy just stumbles and eliminate me. Going elsewhere becomes a real problem because other lanes gets overwhelmed and I got picked the second the enemies sees me.
Dying regularly means I don't get enough souls, so I keep being an easy prey
Not trying to vent.
But, like, I don't even have time to properly apply advices that the lane is already crushed.

[agile void]

in my case Im just eating Rem nonstop because he is a macro creature and just being able to punish bad enemy macro is great

[vast sandal]

230s ult cooldown

https://tenor.com/t9C32WuMSMo.gif

[lavish grove]

Who?

[agile void]

its a strong teamfight ult

what you expect

[dusky flume]

Hard for me to know what I want to look for in a moba blorbo, but I'm sure that will come with experience

[agile void]

dynamo black hole

[finite patrol]

Doorman puts you in the Cube from the Canadian cult classic film "Cube"

[lavish grove]

Ohhh

[warped ridge]

Hypercube yus

[agile void]

its on a 4 minute cooldown

even with transcendant cooldown it doesnt fall below 120

[finite grotto]

@agile void I found it!

https://youtube.com/shorts/thasXfofHn4?si=c5nXHkisvkzpkqOY

Literally forgot to ship a nerf and it affected winrate

[warped ridge]

The most important thing for lane is your fight potential.

You have to know it better than the enemy, and they can still just counter build.

If you become aware that your lane loses insofar as fight potential, your goals are to

1. Not feed
2. Save lane.

If you're playing against someone who is 100% better you will lose every time but that's extremely unlikely unless you're getting like 4k hour players. If your lane loses you want to start focusing on farming, ganks, and getting picks where you can

[agile void]

deathy mentions that you should be aggresive but that kind of depends of the lane

[warped ridge]

Deathy is right

[agile void]

for example I will just stay behind to not allow bebop to get bomb stacks

[warped ridge]

Deadlock has no mana

The only punishment for using an ability is it goes on cooldown

[upbeat perch]

first posted in fight club as a "this should be a scrubquote isn't it"

[warped ridge]

I mean, if we take this mentality then every game starts becoming "skill issue"

[agile void]

problem is, people are willing to learn the movement tech

remember titanfall 2

or team fortress 2

[warped ridge]

Someone can simply not enjoy the videogame and want something better

[agile void]

Rocket jumping BECAME a thing thanks to soldier

[warped ridge]

They can also play the game and critique it

[agile void]

like, officially

[warped ridge]

And infact I agree with this person's estimate, the movement in deadlock is not hard to pull off

[agile void]

the problem is applying it in a match

[warped ridge]

I disagree with their opinion that it should be removed

[agile void]

I will walljump consistently to get to the bridge buff

I will not get it consistently or I will just waste 2 stam for it sometimes

same with walljumping to get out of secret shop

[warped ridge]

That's part practicing part gamesense tho

[agile void]

I mean the pressure of a real match or being shot at can fuck you up

[warped ridge]

Like if you asked me, I would actually buff edge boosting so you can do it instantly from a jump

[dusky flume]

Movement didn't seem that complex? Just took ongoing practice

[agile void]

we dont have actual grapples like titanfall or pathfinder

[dusky flume]

I'm still not great at it, but it didn't come off like quantum physics either

[warped ridge]

Yus
But why would you feel not confident about doing movement and not about other things like fighting is the real question

Like if you're not confident you need to practice more until you feel confident

If you miss it mid match, oh well, things happen. Sometimes you're gonna get ganked cause someone didn't call missing

[plain furnace]

I seem to be getting matched with average Skill Rating always higher than mine (and it seems my rank is also too high)
It's like the first five minutes I don't even have time to properly lane that we get destroyed

[warped ridge]

Unfortunately I can't tell you if mmr isn't working as expected or if you just have really bad luck.

They'd have to open player profiles to public match history to tell

[magic summit]

They tried lowering stamina gain globally and everyone hated it. The movement is one its strongest facets and I dont know how you would even change the game at this point to remove this persons complaint

[warped ridge]

I mean I wish Celeste had less stamina innate but tbf that's just me not used to her yet

[agile void]

and even then

[warped ridge]

Cause I felt the same way about Mina and Pocket with the strong escape potential

[agile void]

her lower gravity still exists

girl can just bhop

[agile void]

slowing hex them?

[warped ridge]

Oh true I hadn't even considered chars having different fall speeds

[warped ridge]

At this point I just kill them or I don't.

Either they're so sweaty they could power a hydro powered generator and they will always get away or I kill them

[agile void]

god forbid you dont get counter items in a Moba

[warped ridge]

Well that's kinda my point

They can just counter the counter items + I know for a fact I'm not minmaxing movement tech yet

And I can crutch on a counter buy or just classic dark souls "git gud" and just get better at movement/positioning

And holistically, given my games it's a 6v6

I'm better off not counter buying for 1 char specifically and instead just regular buying for fight potential against the rest of their team

[agile void]

I just find it weird that you dont want to get slowing hex if the thing that annoys you is that they get away

[warped ridge]

Now

[warped ridge]

Well tbh I usually buy knockdown instead

[agile void]

I had bebops buy slowing hex as dynamo

[agile void]

that they can just iframe?

or dispel magic?

or counter spell?

slowing hex helps because its a cheap counter item

you will get it before they get counter spell or dispel magic

[warped ridge]

Yeh but knockdown more useful in general cause I'm not in eternus 6 lobbies with people knowing how to reverse bhop boost the stun or w/e

If I am then yeah it's a better buy

Cause it's just the most optimal choice for that sorta lobby

On the flipside char choice also matters tbf

And since the only time it really comes up is when I'm playing Haze it's usually smarter to just build some sorta speed or burst item

Since Haze has built in invis

[ivory reef]

Reverb just let them get away

Take the objective

[vast sandal]

sometimes you can let a motherfucker leave and rob them instead of killing

[ivory reef]

This is such a weird complaint

[vast sandal]

until mid-lategame they're gone just as long

[ivory reef]

Like what do I do against the anti mage in Dota

Well I win the game actually

[warped ridge]

Yeah that's what I said?

[ivory reef]

I'm not sure what you're complaining about then and I'll note the entire channel here doesn't get it either

[warped ridge]

I'm not gonna worry about counter building cause if I do and they just get away anyways it was better for me to just shove them out of lane

[agile void]

wasnt pointed out a few days ago that slowing hex was a god item to hit your 4.8k spirit powerspike?

who was the haze expert here?

jenny?

[median lantern]

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win

[warped ridge]

Oh you mean Celeste

Nah Celeste was me just being salt and admitting I'm just not used to her kit yet

[vast sandal]

the Haze expert is thresh

[ivory reef]

Also wtf is this, please don't unironically post about tryhards or sweats

[finite grotto]

Surge of power plus slowing hex is a super nice 4.8 spirit investment on haze I think fresh confirmed ye

[agile void]

literally

its the meta buys

[ivory reef]

It's not hard to not be a weird wanker about people in competitive games we play

[finite grotto]

Slowing hex plus torment is also one of my faves to get 4.8 spirit on stuff like billy

[vast sandal]

oh actually here's a question

what do you do if Bebop starts cranking out 3.2k damage bombs

[ivory reef]

Dispel magic or counterspell

I just parry the bomb

[vast sandal]

does Dispel Magic banish the bomb from your body

[warped ridge]

Yeh I usually buy surge of power and something else cause surge of power is amazing for burst

[ivory reef]

Yeah it falls off to the floor

[vast sandal]

OH

I was WONDERING where those fucking floor bombs were coming from

[agile void]

counter spell it

[ivory reef]

I prefer just parrying it

[finite grotto]

Oh I wanted to ask! I really like Ballistic enchantment but I see it fairly rarely. Anyone know any heroes that take it are or where it makes the most sense?

[frail jasper]

McGinnis turrets actually

30% range and they automatically ping lots of enemies

[vast sandal]

Seven

[frail jasper]

Viscous splatter

[finite grotto]

Hmhm

[vast sandal]

you put the ballistic enchant on the balls

[frail jasper]

Seven would be okay yeah

[warped ridge]

Wait does it increase the radius of the shock ball?

[vast sandal]

ye

[finite grotto]

I have been mainly using it on Pocket atm and thinking on trying it on Geist

[warped ridge]

That's good to know

[vast sandal]

THROWING LIGHTNING

the balls can become intolerably large

[finite grotto]

Ohhh!

[magic summit]

A big point about slowing hex btw is that it is a strong disable for a lot of characters and the cheapest counter for it is twice the price

[warped ridge]

Disable? I thought it only slows

[finite grotto]

Actually that kinda opens into a side question. Does +range itself work on stuff like pocket 3 or do these kinds of abilities get only larger via expansion?

[magic summit]

It turns off movement abilities

It turns off 3/4th of Calicos buttons

[ivory reef]

It specifically silences them

[warped ridge]

It does?
looks at it
Oh only for 3.5s, no wonder it felt so weak for me

[vast sandal]

Slowing Hex is da lockdown

[magic summit]

That is so long

[vast sandal]

if Doorman builds it you already know what the fuck is going on

[warped ridge]

I'm 99% sure I've been using it as a chase and that's why it never felt good to me

[agile void]

HOW THE FUCK YOU SAY ITS BAD IF YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT IT DOES?

[ivory reef]

Hey

Jaacker

[magic summit]

Anything marking ability range increases anything expansion does. Like the bonus stat on knockdown or healing nova

[warped ridge]

No it's fair

[ivory reef]

Please shut up

[agile void]

Yeah sorry It just annoyed me because of the former conversation

[warped ridge]

I can almost guarantee I've been using it as a chase (incorrectly) rather than as a proper interrupt mid ability chain

[ivory reef]

I'm not exactly thrilled by the general pattern of like, one person shows up and says stupid stuff in a way that aggravates entire channel. It happens all over pnet by accident and it's not amazing when it's a pattern

But also you can't just fucking yell at people here god

[magic summit]

One of the only special distinctions is trans cool down affecting item cooldowns

[finite grotto]

Hmhm

So of I put ballistic enchantment for example on pocket 3 it would increase the overall radius

[warped ridge]

Like I've probably been running into people who see I have it and save their abilities for until after I pop it and I've not been using it to interrupt mid ability usage

EG I should be using it after pocket throws the jacket ghost so Pocket can't tele to it (not sure if it would actually prevent it cause Idk if ghost lasts long enough to outlast the 3.5s but it feels like it does)

[ivory reef]

It does not

If it does wait a second

[agile void]

still, the point of slowing hex is to stop someone when they are about to use their tp

[finite grotto]

Thanks for the explainer!

[agile void]

or they are attempting to I frame a attack

like bebop bombs

[warped ridge]

Yeh but I've seen Minas get away but it's probably cause I pop it and she's prob just waiting it out instead of me waiting for her to use her first tele

[agile void]

or dynamo stopping lash ult

[agile void]

or they use the tp to iframe it

which also works, you are forcing them to use the skill prematurely

[warped ridge]

iframe it? Does it also have a cast time? I thought it was instant

[agile void]

no castime

but it has traveltime

similar to wraith ult

[warped ridge]

Oh rip

I always thought it was like a zap

Probably me just confusing it for visual clutter with tesla bullets

[magic summit]

If it matters I wouldn't put it on pocket. I think other gun items are good on them if you are investing there

Like point blank

[finite grotto]

Hmhm ye I am currently on mystic shot plus cultsac or spirit render but I saw some higher rank pocket use ballistic enchantment on the 1 and it seemed cool so i got curious about it!

[merry verge]

I feel like I'm rarely getting the benefit out of Spirit Rend but I'm sure the res shred math is there

just kind of quiet

[magic summit]

You do get a lot if you are good at hitting the 1

[finite grotto]

Point blank is also a good shout I should try that!

[magic summit]

I half the time skip gun items but I am fond of point blank because it helps solo kill people

[finite grotto]

Hmhm

I have been playing mainly without gun items on them so I am trying to branch out and I think am enjoying a 4.8, investment

[magic summit]

But I am only A3 so there are better pocket players to follow

[vast sandal]

you know what

imma try McGinnis

[merry verge]

Yes good, more people need to know the terror of Big Wall

[finite grotto]

I just realised there are 4 ranks that start with A

[magic summit]

Oh right

Ascendant

[finite grotto]

Ye I have been finding that (still very new player tho) that I like the gun investment for that and also securing kills after afflictions yourself better

Esp when all abilities are on cd

[warped ridge]

Ranks seem cosmetic more than meaningful atm but Idk

I've been playing with someone a lot and we win all of our matches when we play together outside of like 1

He's seeker 3, I'm oracle 1

[finite grotto]

But prob only when having a lead?

[vast sandal]

oh my god

she's the king of lane

[warped ridge]

Who McGinnis?

[vast sandal]

yes

[warped ridge]

Ye

[finite grotto]

I think if behind my focus should be to just hit Maj leap afflictions to get value that way so go full green/purple🤔

[merry verge]

McGinnis is here to do a job and by gosh she's going to do it

[warped ridge]

She's the best solo pusher IIRC

[late hare]

da king of da Highway

[magic summit]

Yeah eating shit on Pocket means you become the poison bomb

[finite grotto]

But it does feel great cause afflictions always fucks

[magic summit]

Your purpose in life is Affliction and not feeding further

[finite grotto]

That said I had one game where 4 out of 6 players build DB 😭

[magic summit]

Yeah that blows

[finite grotto]

Pocket is so damm fun tho I am enjoying the heck out of them

[merry verge]

It's a little flattering when most of the enemy team counterbuilds you

[magic summit]

Not much to do on that if they have the money to blow on it aside from getting Refresher and hoping for the best

[finite grotto]

True! And also Affliction is like one of the deadliest things in the game

[warped ridge]

Yeh, it just makes me sad because I get promoted to split pusher

[gray otter]

trying to find characters for my friend, asked her what she likes doing and this was her answer, who would yall recommend

my initial reaction was ivy

[frail jasper]

Calico for burst initiator, you jump on people and kill them dead then leave to kill someone else. Or Drifter. Celeste now is spirit nuke

[finite grotto]

Callico maybe for the burst mage part?

[merry verge]

Also Pocket though Calico is like 100% dedicated to the business

[finite grotto]

Pocket does fit I think but they (usually) don't insta delete people

[warped ridge]

And she doesn't have preference towards aesthetics at all right?

[finite grotto]

But mega iniatitor

[frail jasper]

McGinnis might be good for the second category though she's on a low end of effectiveness these days

[granite heath]

it's Marci for the Dota 2 one D:

[gray otter]

dunno, i think shes looking to get a bunch of recs and pick between them

[gray otter]

yeah she remembered a couple messages doen

[warped ridge]

I mean for me Celeste in a teamfight def deletes people

But that's cause of 3 + ult

[finite grotto]

Maybe Lash as well for the initiator burst part?

[warped ridge]

Not sure if she counts as initiator

[merry verge]

She's also just very good at stacking spirit shred

More sustain nukes though

[warped ridge]

Initiator I would more think what others have said

[gray otter]

since celeste does a ton of spirit shred would she work for category 2?

[merry verge]

I'd say so, she also gives her team spirit lifesteal

[warped ridge]

Ye, my friends called her brand from league and some other person from dota

[upbeat perch]

i love how case 1 is very close to sven dota2

[finite grotto]

For category 2 maybe Paige? I never know how much DMG she does but she supports for sure

And I get hurt by her plenty

[merry verge]

Paige damage in a teamfight can be for real, aoes get big and abundant

[warped ridge]

That's a good one yeah

Paige is always mage blasting me from the backline

[gray otter]

so im hearing calico and drifter for category 1, and celeste and paige for category 2?

[granite heath]

smh, the pubs don't know the power of Punch Paige...

[frail jasper]

Calico and drifter are both "hunt isolated people" and "they show up to menace in fights", drifter especially can just press 4 and cripple a team fight even if he doesn't participate

[finite patrol]

Paige for short

[vast sandal]

okay

stomped all over em in Street Brawl

[merry verge]

/gets bursted early and ults to escape, leading three enemies to die.. just as planned, wasn't even scared and crying

[vast sandal]

this McGinnis chick goes nuts

[warped ridge]

As a heads up McGinnis and Graves are particularly stronger in Brawlfight than what you might normally expect due to their kits

[warped ridge]

Unless they adjusted them down further but I don't think so

[merry verge]

it's wild that this game can make running away fun, getting caught out as a non-mobile in Dota/League is just 'welp, too bad'

[vast sandal]

true but also I reckon being able to take an entire lane and go "this is mine"

is pretty good

[warped ridge]

It is yeh

[frail jasper]

Running away is an opportunity to flex your schmoovement skills on someone else

Or if you're a viscous player, Goovement

[merry verge]

or jump directly into the underside of a carriage and implode /nod nod

[warped ridge]

It's why McGinnis the best split pusher, she just had more dedicated support in brawl where main she has to play with more map awareness

[agile void]

at the end did it do or?

[merry verge]

so glad we're back to the era of Punch Viscous, it is correct

[frail jasper]

Rem mains all looking in your direction suddenly

[warped ridge]

Well yeh but in main 6 people can collapse if they all go missing and catch you

[ivory reef]

Like you can stretch stuff with duration mods

[vast sandal]

I realize that Street Brawl eliminates macro play concerns

to be clear

[frail jasper]

You're never gonna catch a rem out if they're being 50% intelligently defensive

[warped ridge]

Yeh. IIRC they also adjust some hero stuff but not too familiar with the exact specifics outside of the range requirement reduction for Drifter stacks

[warped ridge]

True, unless a Doorman rips them off of the person Rem is on.

Absolutely terrifying Doorman is

[merry verge]

It's one of my new favorite things about Doorman ult

Get outta there

[frail jasper]

Just don't be on someone, ez

[merry verge]

I hope they never change whatever momentum bug makes folks that die to Doorman ult launch out of the return like a cannon

[warped ridge]

The scariest Rem in lane I fought never hopped on Bbop and just beat the shit out of us

[frail jasper]

Yeah

[agile void]

pillows with bricks

[frail jasper]

Full of soup (cans)

[warped ridge]

Pillow bombs like r6 frag grenades ngl

[merry verge]

Hopping off of someone gives him a great toss angle too

[frail jasper]

I want to go home and play more of the sleepy rat bird now

But i also have to defeat Cyber Stan

[warped ridge]

Bird?

[frail jasper]

Rem has a beak

[warped ridge]

Rem has a mouth?!

[frail jasper]

Yes

[warped ridge]

For some reason I thought Rem only had eyes and ears

[frail jasper]

He's got a lil beak

[finite patrol]

rem is a chimera

[warped ridge]

I wonder which placeholder was Rem

[frail jasper]

I would say the closest creature is like a gryphon, minus the wings

[frail jasper]

None, those test heroes were all radically different kits than rem

[warped ridge]

I never checked when I first played

But also Mirage wasn't in the game yet at that point either

[frail jasper]

The people are still waiting for Slork

[merry verge]

Punkgoat lookin familiar

I'll never get over how despondent Original Lash looks

[warped ridge]

I like old Mina

[still swan]

Rip Raven

[toxic gulch]

I hear people are talking about secret rat

Or well, my friend told me in vc while I was playing deadlock “did you hear about the rat theory” and I had no idea what he was talking about so

“The secret deadlock rat hero” is second hand rumor of a rumor and I think that’s even funnier

[finite patrol]

rat king
rat king
rat king
rat king
rat king

[toxic gulch]

I see…

The rats…

[lavish grove]

I feel like there’s enough unfinished heroes in the files we’d know already lol

Like I think if you go into the files you could have found every hero that dropped this update in there weeks before

[autumn field]

I believe rat king is an OC hero

But their kit and design was just so fucking good everyone wants them

[toxic gulch]

Born from the empty void where all things are one…

[frail jasper]

This is just my current Pathfinder character

[tame jay]

Apollo today or tomorrow?

[late hare]

Tomorrow

[agile void]

Basically there is a fan concept that is called rat king

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1n728sl/the_rat_king/

this was a popular fan concept for a while back

but recently the hideout got.... filled with rats, in a way

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1qlwj69/okay_given_the_evidence_i_think_that_rat_king/

suddenly a lot of mouse traps have appeared around the hideout

[granite heath]

Imagine of Apollo doesn't make it in because of the secret seventh hero...

[warped ridge]

(To be clear this is a meme)

[toxic gulch]

yeah it was the mousetraps

[finite patrol]

every unspent vote goes to the rat king

[agile void]

I also mention the fan concept because Doorman at first was a fan concept too

[toxic gulch]

oh huh

fun

[still swan]

Seven

[twilit roost]

Get ready for Thursday

[autumn field]

Apollo is also a fan character!

[autumn field]

BASED BASED BASED

[dusky flume]

what

[late hare]

What does one do about Silver if you don't really have a lot of hard CC or survivability in your team comp?

[rich grove]

everyone buys disarming hex

[late hare]

if it's character dependent, the match I just had was on McGinnis, and she got crazy fed in her lane and then dawgged all over us

[rich grove]

buy curse

[astral lava]

pray for them to finally release draft mode

[rich grove]

buy toxic bullets

[autumn field]

damn this was one good game

[rich grove]

if you disarm her you can take out a decent chunk of her dps and if she resets anyway (she probably will) you want anti-heal to stop the amount of health she gets back on kill

[autumn field]

i like that street brawl is unranked

[rich grove]

decay, in the same vein as toxy bullets

[astral lava]

street brawl is ranked in gods eyes

[autumn field]

funniest fucking progression ever

[gray otter]

i dont get it

[autumn field]

its 125, 125, 125, 125

[astral lava]

i wouldnt start 1 on Graves personally thats just feeding them money. had an ok time starting with 3 but 2 is probably fine too. her range is sooo low lol

[gray otter]

oh lmao

[rich grove]

i mean skulls give like 7

[autumn field]

tbh tho, the dps is worth it

[rich grove]

you need the pressure to harrass outside your very tiny range and generally up your wave clear

[autumn field]

it's a fat chunk of damage for idk, 30 souls?

[rich grove]

ginnis turrets give like a proper (if still smaller) soul orb and everything, you're giving them much less

[autumn field]

also, thing about graves

her gameplay spikes crazy hard post lane imo

once base guardians go down, once you can start playing into the space you have, farm troopers, etc

[vast sandal]

I have a friend trying to tell me that if you turn in Soul Urn you get permanent 25% CDR

[autumn field]

0.75% reduction.

then her soul gen goes up like several times, her dps spikes, etc

i know the soul urn, its 0.75%

well

specifically, 0.5% to 1% depending on time

[warped ridge]

ah rip

still not comfortable with deadlock to play it when I'm depressed

perhaps next time

[dusky flume]

I know Paige isn't a healer, but I'm curious about her support capabilities

[autumn field]

she's a support with some nasty damage

[rich grove]

she has one of the strongest heals in the game on ult and her barrier, despite not strictly being a heal is still crazy ehp

she's absolutely a support first and foremost, she just happens to do a shitton of damage

[autumn field]

a max paige will have 500 fucking barrier

and like, 400 more to 2 more allies

[warped ridge]

yeh she's def one of the big support picks

[autumn field]

and a 60% firerate buff...

[warped ridge]

also her ult is a knockup too

[autumn field]

and she deals like 700 damage on that 3...

[merry verge]

And it's a lanewide immobilize

[autumn field]

shes not like, a rem

whose healing is nuts and so much healing

[merry verge]

Preventative Measures style healing

[kindred harbor]

@undone galleon deadlock thread if you need more help in the future

[vast sandal]

I'm gonna have a heart attack trying to explain that the urn is not something you want to do when you're ahead on souls

[undone galleon]

when i get the game defo lol

[finite patrol]

the urn is something to do:

• when you are even but have good lane push
• when you have a comeback urn
• when you have a lead on souls but its not a comeback urn
• when you wiped their team
• to bait a fight when you are way ahead or have rejuv and its a comeback urn

3/5 of these are ahead on souls!

[frail jasper]

You should be prioritizing objectives over urn if you're already winning, especially if it's unfavorable (on the enemy side). There's several good circumstances where it doesn't hurt to do it though.

Especially if you use it to bait the defenders into losing an objective (or if they go save the objective, you get free souls and your lead increases)

[vast sandal]

ah okay so splitting between pushing a lane and talking Walker vs Da Urn is a solid play

after you get like 1 or 2 enemies dead

[finite patrol]

urn is a lot easier when ahead but not comeback than walkers during the 10-20min stretch

that said walkers are a lot easier to organize for

[frail jasper]

always check the team soul ratio before grabbing the urn

cuz picking it up only to find out it's enemy-favored kinda reminds them "hey you should do this to stop losing", or yoshi forbid you go deliver it straight to their waiting arms

[vast sandal]

delivering a comeback urn to your enemies seems Not Awesome

[finite patrol]

you can actually just see on the urn

if green candles its comeback for you

if red candles its comeback for them

if no candles its neutral

if you can't see it then quick maffs

[frail jasper]

yeah that too, but you gotta use your eyeballs and line of sight

[autumn field]

bruh i got a game and of course everyone leaves

[finite patrol]

easier than dividing 173/158 for me mentally haha

[granite heath]

Yeah I just deliver regular urns into their waiting hands instead.

[frail jasper]

you don't gotta divide, just move the decimal place 1 spot over

if the teams are 173k vs 158k, move the higher one's decimal one to the left so it becomes 17.3k

if the difference between the teams is more than 17.3k then it's favored

[rich grove]

unfortunately even as a mathlete i dont think most people are gonna be able to do the subtraction in their head

[finite patrol]

yeah telling me how to do it doesnt help me unfortunately

[frail jasper]

big shrug

it's worth knowing how to do at any rate cuz then even if you're bad at it maybe sometimes you have the whim to look at the souls and compare

[finite patrol]

they just need to add map indicator for whether its favored or jnfavoured

[merry verge]

Oh i thought it was 15% difference, idk why..

[finite patrol]

its 15% for the first urn and 10% for later urns

[rich grove]

does basegame show you the soul delta when you hold tab

[frail jasper]

oh yeah i wouldn't be surprised if there's a UI mod for that

[rich grove]

they put rosh timer in tab-hold minimap

they should really probably just put urn status too

[frail jasper]

If the capturing team is behind by 10% or more (15% for the first urn), the Urn becomes a Comeback Urn.

[rich grove]

because mid timer actually just wins/loses games on the spot

and you can also manually track that

teams did for a while using chat

[merry verge]

I need to play more characters that can like.. do considerable damage to midboss lmao

Buncha single shots and weird wizards

[rich grove]

people just keep asking them to put urn somewhere on the ui, they half-compromised with the candles but you still need someone to be there to look

they should just put it on the UI

[vast sandal]

the person I lane with is trying to tell me Sinner's Sacrifice isn't worth it

[rich grove]

okay specifically the slot machines right not cultsac

[vast sandal]

yes

[rich grove]

literally just trolling

just sayin shit

[finite patrol]

don't listens to them gollum. they wish to steal them for themselves gollum

[frail jasper]

you definitely can still find people who insist on being objectively wrong

[rich grove]

they gotta be trying to get you away from their juicy juicy stat boners

[astral lava]

they just want your gambles yeah

[finite patrol]

inb4 -4 on every box

[rich grove]

they're just trying to kaiji you

[rich grove]

mod that says "let's play the value game" every time I punch a sinners

[vast sandal]

she's telling me that it doesn't make sense for the time investment per souls when you could just lane

[rich grove]

it takes

[frail jasper]

okay so

[vast sandal]

unless you're Rem and can stick the helpers on them

[astral lava]

you lane then gamble then lane again

[frail jasper]

THIS IS TRUE

[rich grove]

like 45s? between waves?

you can't always be managing wave man

like yeah it's worse but you should do them in between, that's the takeaway

not that they're always bad lol

[bleak thicket]

like
yeah lane is good souls
but theres gaps lol

[merry verge]

Lane doesnt sometimes give you 75hp

[frail jasper]

Lane wave is objectively more souls than sinners sacrifice. This falls apart when you don't have a lane wave, so you clear the lane and then go do the sinners sacrifice

[astral lava]

thats why it gives stats! makes it worth it! its souls while there is no lane

[bleak thicket]

and if you happen to be rem

its just free souls and stats

[astral lava]

besides everyone knows optimal farming strat is to sneak in to enemy base and shoot all 3 waves off the ziplines

[merry verge]

Also like, it just means the other person gets more lane souls if you miss any

[rich grove]

someone did the calico "fly into base with torment pulse and cut the waves" strat to deathy on stream 😭

😭

[merry verge]

Proxy Singed..

[vast sandal]

what in the goddamn

[astral lava]

LMFAOOOO how did it go

[frail jasper]

saying they're not worth it is nonsense cuz it's not 336 (sinners at 8 minutes) souls vs like ~500-600 (trooper wave) is not the same thing as clearing a trooper wave and then going to do sinners to get BOTH

[rich grove]

"hang on a second why the fuck is our macro always so ba- oh my god there's a calico here."

all that cheese and he still lost

lactose intolerance wins the day

[astral lava]

I need to learn this

[merry verge]

There should be a mapwide alert if Calico accidentally gets stuck in the sewer

[astral lava]

WARNING: sewer freak detected

[finite patrol]

kill lane. go get box. come back

[astral lava]

the next tunnel sized character will be a small green sewer slime. deadlock is missing a green slime character

[finite patrol]

kill lane. go get farther away box/doubles WHILE YOUR PARTNER GETS THEM JUICY SOLO SOULS. miss wave. Come back!

[frail jasper]

did you know you can brute force your gut biome to be lactose tolerant

[rich grove]

what do you think i've been doing

[frail jasper]

not brute forcing your gut biome into lactose tolerance because i've heard it's a terrible process

since it's just consuming lactose until it starts behaving

[rich grove]

it's like on the borderline of exploit so I wouldn't bother, but it is very funny when people get desperate enough to resort to it

like you have to buy magic carpet pretty much just to troll

[autumn field]

im going nuts

[finite patrol]

you two should fight

[late hare]

showin em the secret of the ooze baby

[frail jasper]

in the lobby straight up goopin' it

[dusky flume]

A goopmaster in deadlock?

[severe loom]

Okay I just stepped away for 5 minutes

WHAT just happened in nightshift

[frail jasper]

I was viscous maining until rem came out, so yeah they exist

[twilit roost]

the goopster

[finite grotto]

noiice

big recommend also on torment pulse on billy. its such a crazy dmg increase

that item in general is so nuts

I finally won a game again 😭

[merry verge]

Lash ulted four people into my Silver Bite, I don't think I'll do more self heal in one action ever again

[toxic gulch]

lovin drifterrrr

like
its slower in the lane phase, and i gotta focus on farming during the midgame
but man it pops offffff

this game we got fed early on in the lane phase but enemy haze and mirage were keeping up soulswise so it was still quite funnn

feels GOOD to drift

[frail jasper]

idk if I told you before but remember to buy extra regen during lane because he's got a ridiculous base hp regen

[toxic gulch]

i did :)))

[frail jasper]

extra regen + melee lifesteal are huge, then maybe get close quarters or something. headshot booster is REALLY GOOD POKE if you're consistent with it but drifter's m1 can be a tad funky

[toxic gulch]

put it in my build~

[merry verge]

melee lifesteal is so goddamn good, love net-positive health in lane trades

[toxic gulch]

i mean again this is kinda a little bit of a stolen build that ive just...jury rigged to be my own but
yeah this is my early game build atm and it has been working

[ivory reef]

Small optimization for everyone that's easy to miss: if you have the breathing room, kill the flag creeps last because they give you health in relation to how much health you're missing

[toxic gulch]

spirit snatch is REALLY GOOD on drifter

yeah

i love murdering flag creeps cus theyre so much healing ❤️

[merry verge]

Drifter has to be the best user of Spirit Snatch, catching a good few folks in a Rend isn't that hard

[ivory reef]

Heal = (16% of hero's missing HP + 150 HP + 4 HP per minute) / Number of nearby heroes

[toxic gulch]

yeah genuinely

he deals more spirit damage with the close range but

the entireity of it is just melee damage so

stuff that keys on melee damage is SO GOOOD

spirit snatch is wonderful

[ivory reef]

having a spirit snatch is the trans experience

[merry verge]

I wish Silver got more out of it orz

[toxic gulch]

thanks

imagine me saying that with the drifter voice

[ivory reef]

I may be hauling dick

[toxic gulch]

big ol clawed thumbs up

[ivory reef]

But I'm serving cunt

[toxic gulch]

same tbh

[short quiver]

https://youtu.be/IxKKShvppRA?si=MYAwjNXnoKXAk9ck

No one likes him lol

Can't wait to hear why

[toxic gulch]

im given to understand is that part of his bit is that he's a rich arrogant young prince

so

probably all of that

[vestal hearth]

Need a name to call him besides Malfoy.

[finite patrol]

Apollo

[autumn field]

Baby lash

[autumn field]

Bebop according to lash

Lash according to bebop

Minilash

Lashtacstic

[finite patrol]

@merry verge @finite grotto @plain furnace @feral umbra @ivory reef @verbal rock
OK, y'all put your names in the bucket and here are the times that we can get at least a 4. If anyone else is interested in any of these times ping me and I will add you to the sheet. I can organize the Wednesday NA evening events and some Sat EU Evening / NA Afternoon. But I will be at work during Wednesday EU Evening so one of y'all would have to coordinate those.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15G7TKHhT6KDEQPp8CPEG-nsyb3dOoi9f9Zq6PTxBKSY/
This sheet is also in my pinned post now and the WhenIsGood is still open.

If you see these times and say "hey, that works for me", but yuou didnt fill out the thingy, just ping me and ill add you to the list

[ivory reef]

ooh c:

thanks so much for organizing this @finite patrol

i'm generally free around then on wednesdays yeah!

[autumn field]

I’m tempted to fill it out but it’s a bit hard for me to say anything but weekends (which are quite inconsistent as well)

[finite patrol]

If u fill it out and never show up no one will begrudge u

[autumn field]

Fair enough

[finite patrol]

just @ me if you use the whenisgood link or want to sign up for one of the 3 times

[vast sandal]

how in god's name do I win a lane as McGinnis

I feel like I'm waveclearing real hard and then ???

[vivid nimbus]

Play somewhat cautious early, but wall shuts down a lot of early aggro and punishes positioning mistakes, heal beacon gives sustain

[vast sandal]

do I just not even take turret

[vivid nimbus]

Once you have all 3 buttons you can put a lot of pressure on with turrets

[vast sandal]

at first

[vivid nimbus]

I usually go 3 > 2 > 1 > max 1

If you waveclear hard but can't pressure them under tower, get boxes and camps

You can start turret, but I don't, and IMO wall and heal are big safety tools for her

[random urchin]

I usually start heal, then wall, then turret

If it was like a spooky melee lane then maybe wall first

[vivid nimbus]

Wall can really fuck people up TBH if they step in front of their minion line

Because wall between them and minions means now they're taking all the minion aggo, while also you and your lane buddy are shooting them

[random urchin]

True true

[rich grove]

minion aggro early is pretty nuts damage

you'll randomly just take 260 or something

[vivid nimbus]

Oh also fucks up short trade styles in general, you can just decide "no this is a long trade"

Or vice versa, if you cut them off from you instead of cutting off their retreat

But generally McGinnis prefers the longer trades

[vast sandal]

I figured it out

[vivid nimbus]

Congrats! What part was most helpful?

[vast sandal]

the whole "just lame them out and drag out the fight" thing honestly

McGinnis just makes laning a miserable experience huh

[finite patrol]

yeah she's a very strong laner

[vast sandal]

you just get shot, and then she heals, and there's turrets so the wave is always pushed up

very attrition-focused character

[vivid nimbus]

I don't mind laning against her but she's also my most played so >.>

[vast sandal]

no like it's good tho, if I'm playing a comp game I want my opponents to curse my name

[rich grove]

guilty gear ass reasoning

[vast sandal]

I gotta bring some Bull Shit to this laning phase

also I finally worked out why I was behind on souls compared to my enemies all the time and the answer was to deny them like 5x as often

just squat on troopers and blast soul orbs all day and all night with Titanic Mag

Mina pokes her head around the corner? bullets

Bullets for christmas

Active Reload seems real good as McGinnis, topping up 128 round mag at double speed is excellent

[finite patrol]

I havent looked but im reasonably sure it would be meta on mcgunnis

[vivid nimbus]

Ah you're going more gun-y than me, but that's also good

[vast sandal]

Yeah I mean if I’m gonna lug a bullet hose around and buy Monster Rounds to pick the entire lane up and shake the souls out of it I figure I should be making my gun a stronger tool

[vivid nimbus]

I should look up a gun build so I can build it instead if my team is too spirity

[vast sandal]

The match I got MVP on I was just committing terrorism running off while the enemy team tried to push up a defended middle lane and snacking on their walkers