Deadlock

[rich grove]

my regular duo laughed when I said "yeah I'm not doing basic hygiene stuff like mantle sliding" because it is very funny to describe some random movement tech as hygiene

but it really should be about as automatic as washing your hands

[ivory reef]

venator's grenade literally cannot explode before hitting at least 1 surface

[rich grove]

i'm yet to get to the stage where something like cornerboost is that intuitive for me but that's the goal

[ivory reef]

if you fire it straight up it doesn't time out until it comes all the way down

[finite patrol]

I wasn't mantle sliding for a long time and once I started it just happens

[bleak thicket]

You can also shoot venators traps (if youre not graves)

[rich grove]

yuh

[merry verge]

lmao sorry Graves

[rich grove]

I do the IAD flick tech pretty much subconsciously

[ivory reef]

yeah mantle sliding is like. it's extremely good and sort of just like a habit you should start early

[finite patrol]

extremely bad aa ult???

[rich grove]

it's so free and it comes up so often

[ivory reef]

I try not to overwhelm newbies with movement tech but I try and teach everyone:

• please crouch off ziplines and zipdash
• hey, check out this dash jump bunnyhop thing
• mantle slide

the rest they will figure out

loads of walljump stuff

[finite patrol]

instant dash!

[rich grove]

which I'm not used to because in my last game (destiny 2) you unironically built certain breakpoints in your armor so you wouldn't mantle making certain jumps

[finite patrol]

heavy melee ledge grab!

[merry verge]

I've started crouching off Zips and it's so easy to just launch yourself across the lane

[rich grove]

but anytime you climb up something with heavy melee, that's a mantle slide

[ivory reef]

yeah crouching off ziplines is like, just a habit to start from game 1

it's only hard to learn when you have 20 hours of jumping off the line

[vivid nimbus]

Also remember to use the jump pads if they're there

[warped ridge]

Corner boost isn't good for me because I don't know the maps well enough, otherwise I know how to do it reflexively.

On the flipside, I love edgeboosting

[rich grove]

the bad zipline habit i have is accidentally hitting the frame perfect "you fucking fly across the lane uncontrollably"

[ivory reef]

ah yeah I let people learn the map themselves

always an art to like, teaching in a way that people can retain stuff and explore stuff

[vivid nimbus]

It's a bad habit I have too, sometimes just walking instead of using the jump pads

Despite it definitely being faster for where I want to go

[rich grove]

my new sweatlord thing is being Bridge Buffs Guy

[warped ridge]

If corner boosting could be done from the start of a jump I'd do them 24/7 but alas they are balanced

[ivory reef]

oh man yeah tracking timers is a dota Thing

if you aren't anal about every minute timer you're not gonna go far

I'm literally hiding in the enemy T1 camp as it spawns

so I can rake it

[rich grove]

compared to dota the mid buff timer just being on the minimap natively is bananas

[bleak thicket]

also
for anyoen just getting into the game
check the map
check it often
check it more often
check it more more often

[vivid nimbus]

Fucked up and evil (affectionate)

[ivory reef]

jenny always puts the 8 minute sinner spawns into her brain

and leaves lane then like clockwork

[bleak thicket]

the map has so much info in deadlock

[rich grove]

today I genuinely could have won a game if our team played around mid because it was 40s from spawning

[warped ridge]

Yeh I need to learn those because I already do timers but I need to actually learn lane timers as well + practice wave freezing

[rich grove]

and we had put their graves in 80s respawn timer

[bleak thicket]

like if youre not checking the map at least 3 times a minute
youre not doing the bare minimum

[ivory reef]

there's a whole skill in mobas (and especially dotas) to map awareness. like I'm teaching @sweet cobalt and a lot of early games are just like, oh whoops cosu is way out by themselves alone and they die

but that's just

[rich grove]

like the decision to not do that and instead go for picks unironically lost us the game

[ivory reef]

super normal

that's everyone's first ten dota games too

you just pick it up over time

you need to be hyper aware of where everyone is at all times and all the interlocking killzones

and oh no you're 2 meters into the bad zone

you are gonna die in 10 seconds

[rich grove]

frustrating comms fail but I'm extremely satisfied that I recognised the gamestate just from casually watching pro games on the side

[warped ridge]

You also need to know that randoms will always be random and force higher mental stacks than squads.

I got abandoned by a random today in a 2v1 that caused me to die even though they pinged the enemy 2 seconds before abandoning me

[ivory reef]

tbh I do not play with randoms

[rich grove]

forcing mid extremely aggressively in general is also a huge difference in casual/pro

[warped ridge]

It's a good way to keep on your toes if you think it could ever happen but if you're only playing in stacks then yeh no need

[ivory reef]

like, understand that if you're playing with randoms you're just kinda playing a slightly different game and stuff is gonna be wonky in ways that the design didn't intend

[vast sandal]

I gotta cook me up a 6-stack

[merry verge]

I've been surprised with how Listening To Pings-y randoms have been

[ivory reef]

but like. it's not like jenny and I don't group with randoms casually every now and then

but at that point you're just working on personal skills

[merry verge]

It feels a lot more like people are willing to.. Do Things, than League or something

[ivory reef]

you do wanna 6 stack at some point

[vast sandal]

Start learning the game as it’s meant to be played

[bleak thicket]

yeah
its just that i dont expect anything of randoms

[rich grove]

it's just not practical to schedule 6 for most people so I don't really hold it against you if you can't

[bleak thicket]

i expect them to be better than bots
but thats about the highest bar ill set for randoms

[vast sandal]

But tbh

[rich grove]

it is night and day though

[ivory reef]

yeah team games are a privilege for people with big teams

[rich grove]

just unfortunate reality of trying to schedule anything with multiple people that takes like

[ivory reef]

polycules for board games style stuff

[rich grove]

40 minutes per game

[warped ridge]

For me it's been the opposite, they actively bait me if I don't watch them harder than big brother in 1984

[vast sandal]

Just laning with a friend and actually communicating in lane with my lane partner got me from “I lost and it feels helpless this sucks”

[warped ridge]

But like

[vast sandal]

To “we lost but we cooked in our lane”

[rich grove]

most dnd groups are 4, take the same amount of time per week and... can't meet on a regular schedule

[warped ridge]

It's not hard to watch them

[rich grove]

so 6 is pretty high bar

[warped ridge]

Like it's only slightly harder cause no f1-f6 for quick peek

[rich grove]

duo is a huge step up though i agree, especially if you can regularly get the same lane partnership

[warped ridge]

You can still minimap check

[vast sandal]

Seven and Rem are on their way to goblin the fuck out of mid and pig out on souls

[ivory reef]

yeah I can't imagine playing solo tbh

[rich grove]

you could write essays about laning in this game

[ivory reef]

I only duo or more

[warped ridge]

I could def solo but I need more general char knowledge

[rich grove]

and it's just so much less frustrating to reliably be able to say 'hey, you're low, I'm going to buy rite for you and you hide in veil'

[merry verge]

Still can't believe my usual PVP friend crashed out so hard at this, it's got everything they like orz

[rich grove]

or 'let's freeze wave and make them come to us'

[vast sandal]

The hypercarry with a suspiciously urn-shaped bulge in their throat: “we outta souls”

[warped ridge]

My issue wouldn't be a Random doing something Random, it would be I goober an interaction cause I don't know shiv has a secret floor glitch upside down hair ride tech that kills me

[rich grove]

doing shit like coordinating tower dives is infinitely more fun and just likely to work when you're on vc lemme say that

[merry verge]

I've been having a lot of teleportation bugs recently

[rich grove]

that's like a whole entire facet of the game that basically doesn't exist solo

[warped ridge]

I also think like

[rich grove]

fucking love tower dives

[merry verge]

Parrying a tower for a dive... orgh

They're somehow surprised every time

[warped ridge]

Deadlock players haven't quite solidified pings for the wider general playerbase

Like "I see X" =/= "I want to attack"

[vast sandal]

Let’s go Drifter!

OOOOHHHH

[warped ridge]

Speaking of parrying

[rich grove]

today I hit the mythical backdash parry also

[warped ridge]

Can you parry t2s?

[rich grove]

hold on let me try to find the replay

[vast sandal]

This mf instant backdash fastfall overheading

[merry verge]

nawh the stomp is a bit of a Get Outta Here type move

[warped ridge]

Earlier I did a tele heavy melee dodge against a Billy while playing drifter and instead heavy melee'd him in the back

[vast sandal]

Get That Garbage Outta Here (BB)

[warped ridge]

I love drifter's 2

[warped ridge]

Gotcha, that's what I thought but didn't want to assume

[merry verge]

I'm honestly thankful they added a cast time to Drifter 2, it could be a little jarring

[warped ridge]

I could do either, I just love it cause it's an assassination tool they can't reflex

[rich grove]

i deadass hit the snake dacus on him

[warped ridge]

I need to get better at uhh

Parry blocking teammates

Like if I have a Graves I need to parry block her tombstone

But like

People arent doing melee enough in brawlfight for me to practice

[vast sandal]

Need them to add an item to Deadlock called Get That Garbage Outta Here that automatically blocks any CC or damage ult if it’s bullshit (CCs for more than 5 seconds, does more than half your health before you can react, is Dynamo ult or Bebop ult)

[merry verge]

Folks expect it if you're standing in the Grave sometimes but if you just stay within dash distance you can catch them slipping

[bleak thicket]

honestly a big part of graves is putting your gravestone in a good location in the first place

it relieves a lot of the pressure to defend it

[warped ridge]

Yeah thats how all the gamer sweat Graves have been doing it

[ivory reef]

You can counterspell the damage from walker stomp

[warped ridge]

And I'm just like, "mMMMK I see how it is"

[ivory reef]

You can't parry it

[vivid nimbus]

I really need to learn how to play in teamfights when I'm not just a caster who can blow cooldowns at people

[vast sandal]

Evo moment 39…

[merry verge]

I think my favorite parry has to be saving your Already-Parried lane partner

early game slapfights

[ivory reef]

I've done it before

I was in fact the coolest person in the game

[vivid nimbus]

My movement and rotations and stuff aren't amazing but I'm consciously improving at them. But shooting people with basic M1? Not great

[merry verge]

me with any character that needs Proper Tracking, aaaahhhhg

[warped ridge]

Just go grind out aimlabs or kovaaks for 30 hours

You'll never have to aim train for deadlock again after that

Well, maybe if you like, otp Vindicta

[vivid nimbus]

Aimlabs helps some but it won't teach how to lead targets, how to position, how to use slides

[warped ridge]

Lead targets yes unless you mean geometry calculation, but that's entirely a mind thing, you either can or you can't

[vivid nimbus]

Unless aimlabs has a mode where they wiggle around like human players and you do need to lead

[bleak thicket]

there is indeed that

[warped ridge]

I mean the best aim training for aimlabs/kovaaks is voltaic

Those goobers take it super seriously and will even go over the fact you need to eat right and sleep right

[vivid nimbus]

Okay why the fuck is Aimlabs 18 GB?

[warped ridge]

Idk, I bought kovaaks lel

[astral lava]

needs to be that big to fit all the physics

fr that should be like 300 mb

[warped ridge]

But honestly positioning in deadlock is half char knowledge and half danger sense

[vast sandal]

Oh also

How do you use Bullet Dance properly

[warped ridge]

Haze t4?

Err

Haze ability 4?

Haze ult I mean

[vast sandal]

I assume the “noob trap” is trying to use it to nuke the entire enemy team

And yeah, Haze 4

[warped ridge]

I hate her ult so much

[vivid nimbus]

AIUI, if you jump in the middle of a team it splits damage

[warped ridge]

But how you use it depends

[merry verge]

Trying to nuke the team before they've used their CCs

[vast sandal]

I know it makes you some level of immune to bullet damage

[warped ridge]

Bullet dance is an avoidance when you max level it

And IMO if youre using it for that granularity you're either already dead because it's a misuse or you have like uhh, vampiric burst

Or you combine it with

[rich grove]

ignore the dogshit aim I was genuinely losing it

[vast sandal]

So rather than sneaking into the enemy comp and going nuclear, the idea is to clear out the enemy team after they all ult and do their saucy shit and they’re in the post teamfight refractory period

[rich grove]

use it as an autoaim +40 bullets at the end of a mag after doing some variation of sleep dagger + spray into their head + slowing hex/silence wave

[warped ridge]

Idk what def item you can combine it with, maybe thresh knows

[vast sandal]

Is it lifesteal bullets

[warped ridge]

No it's better used for what thresh said

My use is a uhh

So like

[vast sandal]

Oh okay so instead of reloading you just hit 4 and annihilate your enemy

[rich grove]

yeah it's basically just useful for cleaning up your 1v1

[vast sandal]

Huh

Ok

[warped ridge]

yeah

so like

[rich grove]

because of how it splits damage on targets it's pretty awful in a crowd

[warped ridge]

I use it defensively

[vivid nimbus]

Plated Armor but it probably stacks multiplicatively, so 30% + 60% = 72%

[warped ridge]

because I just go "yeah I'm him" and win all my 1v1s without it

[rich grove]

it looks like reaper ult. but it is not.

[merry verge]

Does it still do funny things with Ricochet, I know they changed something about Haze Ult but been like a year

[rich grove]

it is extremely not that.

[vast sandal]

That makes it feel really weird that it’s an AoE

[warped ridge]

but you have to have the mindset and confidence of actually winning those 1v1s

[rich grove]

once upon a time it did have an upgrade that gave it + targets

so you could shoot 2 people instead of 1 at once

[warped ridge]

yeah it's been really goofy ever since the early days

[rich grove]

and this alone made building ult haze with unstop a real thing

[vast sandal]

So the Haze breakdance is literally just Soldier 76 mode but in an AoE instead of whatever you point at

[warped ridge]

technically you can stack tesla + toxic and then ult their team with it but even then it's still a misuse IMO

[rich grove]

then they removed that, and gave it +spirit damage instead of +bullet damage, and this also was enough to make it meta

[warped ridge]

no

[rich grove]

so now it's neither and it's just a very okay kill secure tool you should just dump on someone where you kinda boofed the 1v1 or you can use it to burn walkers or mid

for which it is actually surprisingly good

[warped ridge]

it's close range compared to s76 ult

that's the main thing

[vast sandal]

Okay see I realized that

[warped ridge]

but outside of that yes

[rich grove]

you can also do the thing with uhh

[warped ridge]

my favorite use for it is actually a reversal tool

[rich grove]

fury trance, you pop ult and then fury trance to up its damage as you can use actives in ult

[warped ridge]

because goobers love assuming you already used it offensively

[rich grove]

totally negates the downsides as you're not casting any other spells anyway, gives you fat %spirit resist for when they use all their aoes on you, ups your fire rate

[vast sandal]

But it basically just creates a zone where your guns automatically track and fire on anyone close by

[warped ridge]

so if you're running away at like half health and they chase you and blow all of their stamina

[rich grove]

yup

[vast sandal]

But you can’t shoot more people than you already could

Which is 1

[rich grove]

and also yup

[warped ridge]

you just go "heh trap card 67!" and then ult

and then they die cause no stamina

[vast sandal]

Alright

[warped ridge]

or just do what thresh says and use it as a rotation ender to win a 1v1

[vast sandal]

That is a mysterious way for it to work

[rich grove]

again, intuitively every bone in your brain is screaming at you 'invis into the middle of the enemy team and ult them ALL' because it's a big flashy circle

[vast sandal]

But OK

[rich grove]

but no

[warped ridge]

yeah it's really gross

I hate it

[vast sandal]

Yeah I followed my intuition

[rich grove]

I genuinely wonder if it was intended to act as a kind of omnislash

which can also get rng'd extremely badly, or at least it could before ame lost last year's TI to this

[vast sandal]

Well, that explains why my brilliant plan to carve the enemy back line out from behind them as Haze ended in a wet fart and death when I played her

[rich grove]

yeh

[warped ridge]

also as a heads up

you can IAD crouch slide it

[rich grove]

it's also a giant noise cue saying HEY PLEASE USE YOUR SPELLS ON ME as one of the more fragile characters in the game

so it's generally advised that once you get your one after using it, you leave

[vast sandal]

I kinda assumed everyone would be dead…

[warped ridge]

nop, it's why I use it defensively

[vast sandal]

Like I melt people like a hot knife through butter if I just hold M1 on their face

So

Uh

[rich grove]

yeah

[warped ridge]

yeah exactly why I use it defensively usually

[rich grove]

but you're also not randomly switching between every single potential target unfortunately

well, fortunately for your wrist cartilage

[warped ridge]

cause again, they greed hard for the kill and you just turn and pop it and there goes their HP bar

[vast sandal]

Look I’m just saying I feel like my expectations for Bullet Dance were justified

[warped ridge]

yes they are

unfortunately

[vast sandal]

Maybe if I took Toxic Bullets it would be better…

[rich grove]

NO SURVIVORS

that's survivors

you'd think you would be able to kill more than one person with it...

and I mean you can go full meme if that's what you want, you can buy warp stone and expansion and duration and ricochet just so you can recreate the glory days

[vast sandal]

Clearly it’s because you’re supposed to wipe out survivors after a real damage ult hits the enemy team…

[ivory reef]

It's sky wrath ult

[rich grove]

but it's a lot more investment and it's way less efficacious than the days where that was genuinely the meta way to play her

[ivory reef]

It felt very intuitive to me

[vast sandal]

Look I saw Death Blossom

[ivory reef]

Like, soldier 76 is the same in overwatch

[rich grove]

you would genuinely once upon a time buy ricochet and then everyone would have to scatter or die when you ulted because you'd hit the whole team

[ivory reef]

He just puts bullets on somebody

[vast sandal]

No yeah it

It makes sense

[rich grove]

soldier doesn't project a giant circle around him is the thing

[vast sandal]

If you think about it I guess anyways

[warped ridge]

soldier 76 also has range and can get those far reach shots

haze is basically melee range in a circle for her ult

[ivory reef]

Skywrath ult is a circle

[warped ridge]

well

heavy melee

[vast sandal]

It’s Skywrath ult, it’s S76 visor, it’s “whatever you’re doing to dodge this, it won’t work anymore”

Which is good

[vivid nimbus]

A lot of people think of it as an AOE thing, I did too my first couple Haze games (which were also my first couple of DL games)

[merry verge]

Also 76 isn't Actively Dancing, nothing about the visuals scream Use This On One Person

[warped ridge]

I think they can metal skin it yeah?

or no?

[merry verge]

Metal Skin is Haze's Enemy, it works

[warped ridge]

yeah

granted haze's ult will start lasting longer if she buys spirit duration for 4.8k spike

[rich grove]

the overwhelming majority of circles on the floor in games in general are 'dangerous aoe'

and definitely in deadlock

[ivory reef]

I mean it's still a dangerous aoe

If you're in it you get shot

[warped ridge]

hmm

actually

[ivory reef]

You should leave

[warped ridge]

if dynamo ults enemy team, how many teammembers max before you quit using the ult and just shoot normally for haze?

[merry verge]

It's kind of like a Psylocke Ult where stacking inside it weakens it

[warped ridge]

would it be 3?

or 2?

[rich grove]

well it drops off when you hit multiple targets instead of that actively being the wincon like dynamo

or geist bomb

or paradox bomb etc etc etc

[warped ridge]

I guess yeah you can just gun down 1 and then ult the other

[vast sandal]

I guess it’s just that when I see an Equilibrium gun kata reference, I’m expecting uhh

[ivory reef]

Drifter ult hits 2 people btw

[vast sandal]

The Equilibrium scene

[ivory reef]

Just gonna mention it now for the newbies

[vast sandal]

Where Keanu Reeves shoots like 11 guys in the heads and they all die

[rich grove]

(it's 2 til max AP on it but most drifters don't max AP on it early)

[ivory reef]

Which, importantly, involved lots of singular shots

[warped ridge]

...keanu?

[ivory reef]

On separate targets

[vast sandal]

Wait fuck that was Keanu Reeves right

FUCK

[rich grove]

no that was christian bale

[warped ridge]

lol

[vast sandal]

god damn it

[rich grove]

in any case I think there's enough cases of new players coming into the game and expecting to press the button to one effect only to have that use case be wrong

[warped ridge]

yeah

haze is the uhh

[vivid nimbus]

Keanu Reeves was the guy in Matrix and John Wick

[vast sandal]

I’m gonna blame John Wick for incepting the idea that Keanu is a gun badass into my head

[warped ridge]

probably at the top of the list with her ult probably

[rich grove]

that it seems pretty reasonable to say there is some kind of issue with mismatched expectations

[warped ridge]

well I mean

in deadlock

when you slide, you get infinite ammo

so

[merry verge]

That works in real life too

[rich grove]

ultimately you play the game as it is given to you

but it is still A thing that is problematic for newcomers to learn when they try pressing 4 in the crowd and then just get turned on and explode

[vast sandal]

I mean ultimately

[ivory reef]

I feel like this one is really on them I dunno

[vast sandal]

It’s probably for the best that Haze does not have a fuck you AoE ult and does her job of picking a guy and making them melt

[vivid nimbus]

I think it needs a better tooltip

[ivory reef]

Like read your ability

Yeah maybe better tooltip

[warped ridge]

yeah like split shot doesn't work with it for example

[vivid nimbus]

Like, this is a very brief description, I think one of the shortest tooltips in the game

Enter a flurry, firing your weapon at nearby enemies with perfect accuracy and added Bullet Damage.

[warped ridge]

it also doesn't give perfect accuracy

because you shoot body shots

not head shots

[vast sandal]

[rich grove]

even if you communicate you're going to alternate between targets if there are multiple you are also just not going to understand how much that extra fire rate or damage means

if you're new to the game I don't think it's reasonable to expect you to understand that the +damage is actually not that big of a ttk shift

[vast sandal]

Tbh now that I know how Haze works for real, I feel like I could take another swing at playing her

[rich grove]

I think you will also just enjoy playing her more when you understand how players move

[warped ridge]

hopefully they never played punishing gray raven and used lee

[warped ridge]

she's gr8

def one of my favorite chars

I just hate her ult

[rich grove]

your routing on smokes and your ability to look at people on the map and rub your hands together because you've been handed a juicy macro opportunity is gonna get way better as you have more hours

[warped ridge]

sleep dagger punch

one of the greatest feelings

also sleep daggering someone on a zipline

[vast sandal]

Imaginary technique: sleep dagger

[warped ridge]

extra juicy

[rich grove]

if you can wrap around the map in 10- seconds instead of 20 and you have a sense for when the enemy is actually alone vs when two more guys are gonna jump you

[vast sandal]

I got one on a channeled flying ult before

[merry verge]

i kind of miss haze's old art

[rich grove]

all of a sudden the character makes way, way more sense

[vast sandal]

That was pretty great

[vivid nimbus]

This makes me think "what if i just played Wraith instead"

As a new player, at least

[warped ridge]

I hope one day we get bunny haze skin, I want her giant bunny ears and toothy grin

[rich grove]

so the difference imo is that wraith is nowhere near as good at rotating between picks

[warped ridge]

as an fps player I like haze more than wraith by miles

[rich grove]

if she burns teleport that is her only reliable escape tool, even panic ulting in a losing 1v1 is often not enough to save you

[warped ridge]

but also I love silver's m1

so

[rich grove]

and especially not if it turns out that they have a pal

[merry verge]

I mean Haze only has sleep dagger for escapes, no?

[rich grove]

haze can rotate extremely quickly with the +sprint, pick her engagements without fear of ever being spotted because she has almost 100% invis uptime and either pull the trigger or leave

[mild flume]

tbh I hope we never get silly novelty skins

[rich grove]

right but haze going in is on 2

not her 1

[mild flume]

its a vain hope but

[rich grove]

she can be anywhere on the map with 2

[merry verge]

tru

[warped ridge]

technically her invis if they move correctly

[rich grove]

wraith's only mobility skill is the one she should be saving to leave situations

[merry verge]

invis is so chaseable

unless they really break your legs

[vast sandal]

Haze could be anywhere

[warped ridge]

yes but that's why you gotta make it on them and just parkour

[merry verge]

playing against Haze/Rem/Calico

[vast sandal]

She could be in this very room

[merry verge]

Constant Terror

[rich grove]

the tradeoff for wraith is that you can burn towers way faster, your steroid is very good at taking objectives and fighting as a team, and wraith has mixed damage types while haze is almost solely bullet

so she won't get countered as hard by metal skin or plated while both can absolutely destroy haze's momentum

[warped ridge]

I've no idea, I'm fine if they're like dota's skins

[merry verge]

also Wraith scaling is just

ungodly

[rich grove]

they have very similar playerbases in general, but at least right now I don't think one is a strict upgrade over the other

it just requires you to have very different mindsets

[vivid nimbus]

There's already the moderately silly Xmas ones from a year ago

[warped ridge]

my cold hot hot cold take is

[vast sandal]

Anyways I am enjoying Seven as well

[rich grove]

you can't invade enemy jungle nearly as well on wraith without burning your best escape tool on a 40s cooldown, so play haze into that strength and act more as an assassin

[vast sandal]

He feels very universal as Carry Damageguy

[rich grove]

creating 2v1s out of nowhere with invis is wholly unique to her kit and basically only her kit because she comes with a free on-demand veilwalk

[warped ridge]

infinite shocks, infinite electricity, infinite power

[rich grove]

to this day this gets complaints about its design from eternus players

[merry verge]

He's more uniquely Wizardy than other carry damagefriends

[vivid nimbus]

Wait is the invis reveal per-player?

That's wild

[rich grove]

you also just don't show on radar because a creep sees you (since they never can)

so you can just kind of be holding hands with your rando as they push wave and farm

[mild flume]

I think dotas skins went a lot further than I'd like

[rich grove]

then when the enemy goes 'ooh, a solo' you knife them and kick them to death with your new best buddy

[mild flume]

some really mess with hero distinguishment

[merry verge]

tbh this is why people ban haze i think

there's not a ton of like

counterplay

no warding

[rich grove]

yeah it turns out invis is strong

[vivid nimbus]

My hot take for skins is that everyone should have a black tie skin

[vast sandal]

TUX MAFIA

[warped ridge]

invis is generally pretty strong yeah

[vast sandal]

TUX MAFIA

[merry verge]

strong doesn't always mean annoying but in this case yeahp

[rich grove]

ultimately that's the big draw on haze

[warped ridge]

like fuck

look at Mirage in Apex Legends

constant balance changes like every other patch

[rich grove]

you play against a god haze and it just feels like you cannot exist in jungle alone, so your gpm gets worse, your team overrotates to everything, you can't split well...

[warped ridge]

because they know if they make it too good it'll be too strong, so they make it different enough that people learn, and when enough people learn they change it

[rich grove]

and you lose by a bunch of super frustrating ganks and the death of a thousand cuts that comes with poor macro

[vivid nimbus]

And yes even chars like Drifter, Drifter in an utterly demolished tux would be amazing

[vast sandal]

Also

[mild flume]

I think thats really the same as a lot of good gankers thresh

[rich grove]

oh for sure

sorry I got super carried away trying to white knight for my old main lmfao

[vast sandal]

Seven balls are really nasty as a medium for Spirit item application huh

[merry verge]

ngl if it wasn't Abrams I'd ban Haze /coff but it's also partly that her playerbase tends to include.. folks

[warped ridge]

cs go players

it's what it feels like

[rich grove]

I think it just bears particular note for Haze because invis is totally unique to her toolkit and people also insist on playing her like a Seven/Infernus/Wraith where your goal is to inhabit a sidelane and farm til your scaling wins the day

[severe loom]

Seven balls are real nasty in general

[rich grove]

you can't really do that because plated armor places a hard ceiling on your ability to single handedly win

[vast sandal]

He is, in fact, balling

Seven will be balling

[severe loom]

I love my megalomaniacal arcane criminal cyborg

[rich grove]

but if you start thinking about her like an assassin/ganker type then all of a sudden her entire kit makes sense again and she doesn't just seem like M1 Carry: 0 Spirit Flavor

[vast sandal]

Mystic Slow on balls is a crime huh

[warped ridge]

no such thing

mystic slow is simply an item choice

[rich grove]

and now hopefully with that role being filled by Venator

[vast sandal]

I meant in that it looks quite strong lmao

[warped ridge]

if they want they'll build spirit resist or anti movement debuff

[rich grove]

that'll be an even clearer split in functionality

[finite patrol]

does this to shiv

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah my initial point was kinda that as a new player I don't have the great game sense for doing ganks yet outside of "Bob is solo pushing"

[warped ridge]

it's gonna take a long while for a lot of people

no jg role

[mild flume]

I think macro is just a hard thing to know

in these gfames

same with dota

[warped ridge]

this game specifically has rough af macro

you can't even freeze lanes easily

nevermind macro timing via movement tech routing

[vast sandal]

Your gun isnt exactly doing hella minion damage is it

[rich grove]

It Depends

[vast sandal]

I guess that’s why Monster Rounds is suggested for a lot of heroes?

[vivid nimbus]

Could you imagine if there was a monster rounds upgrade that just gave wave clear somehow, like trooper kills cause a little AOE or something

[rich grove]

at one point a full mag of lev 0 ivy would fail to even kill a heal creep without slide

[merry verge]

Early Game Silver feels

[rich grove]

monster rounds is a big sign that says I Will Have The Wave Pushed Unless You Buy This Item Too

it's mostly about giving you breathing room on characters like Seven or Warden who have a tendency to just explode, or have unergonomic guns for pushing, or want to save aoe spells for enemies etc

[severe loom]

You know what I just thought about

We only have one confirmed character from the Midwest and it's Holliday

[rich grove]

is she not from alabama

[merry verge]

Vyper

[rich grove]

vyper at least in accent sounds like a fargo extra

[merry verge]

And she talks about Milwaukee and Dekalb

[vivid nimbus]

I guess tesla/capacitor do give aoe for M1 characters that don't natively have spirit damage on bullets, but it still scales with spirit

[severe loom]

She's at least settled down in Macomb in Illinois by the time her backstory happens

[severe loom]

Re:this

[rich grove]

ahh

yknow, that does explain why she's got that swaggy jacket

that does seem significantly more midwest

[vivid nimbus]

Vyper is definitely Midwestern, I'd actually guess more Wisconsin than further west

[severe loom]

And I agree Vyper is probably from Wisconsin or Michigan but like, it's not confirmed

[rich grove]

she does explicitly mention spending lots of time in wisconsin jails

[severe loom]

And in OKC, to be fair

[merry verge]

Love you Vyper perfect being

[rich grove]

I mean maybe she couldve slid across state lines

[autumn field]

christ i just learned how to counter vindicta on billy

[rich grove]

yeag

hard to place an exact dot

but I think wisconsin is funny just cause I want her to be a cheesehead

[vivid nimbus]

I meant her accent, though I recognize there's not that much difference between Wisconsin and the Dakotas (Fargo is in North Dakota)

[rich grove]

I don't care if the packers don't exist yet

I just want her to have the hat.

[severe loom]

I think the Packers might exist? They were one of the original NFL teams I think

[vivid nimbus]

Packers were founded in 1919

[severe loom]

The name comes from them being sponsored by a meatpacking company

They do exist!

[rich grove]

JUST IN TIME

[autumn field]

turns out you can 1 a flying vin to ground em

[rich grove]

and much celebration was had

[merry verge]

Lash also has this manuever iirc

[severe loom]

Yeah Lash can take you down with him on ground slam I think

[rich grove]

unlike lash, if you get high enough to actually hit a vindicta going ac-130 one of you has seriously fucked up

[warped ridge]

maybe, but consider

https://tenor.com/view/my-beloved-babygirl-yamato-deadlock-gif-4942017908075597400

[autumn field]

unlike vindicta, i know how to movement a bit

smh flight crutch

(joke)

(my elo is weird like this)

[rich grove]

the point stands! why didn't she shoot you!!!

[vivid nimbus]

Do it from around a corner and use that air control? IDK

[mild flume]

its fun diving the fliers as yamato but you don't quite have a deflight move

annoyingly

you just hope slashing them in the sky is enough

[merry verge]

They limited FoV recently so Ac-130 Vin is less omniscient

[rich grove]

on everyone's soul we are all buying knockdown at some point in the vindicta/gt matchup

[merry verge]

Precious Phantom Strike

[rich grove]

this is going to be the new trend in 2026

[autumn field]

billy is wonky

its super easy to shred on him in street brawl

and sometimes in normal

but he feels somehow super swingy

[vivid nimbus]

Now imagining a team that's like Vin/GT/Mina/Bebop/Seven/?? and complaining that there's 6 knockdowns

[rich grove]

idk kelvin

[autumn field]

also my favorite thing to do as doorman is to ult the ulting bebop

[warped ridge]

Me playing Vindicta
"Oh hey someone who actually causes me to use voltaic gold for once"

[autumn field]

it's a super reliable SB counter

[vivid nimbus]

Or Ivy I guess

[rich grove]

@vivid nimbus

oh my god.

what do you mean you can just tp to map objectives now as mirage

[vivid nimbus]

Oh yeah I read that in his tooltip

[rich grove]

the aforementioned singed mind control: both of you get to half, then you tp out

to the same lane you are in

so that you can just zip back and run it down on them again

[vast sandal]

not the Singed mind control again

[rich grove]

this is like when i found out the end goal of nuclear fission was just making steam for turbines

[vivid nimbus]

Looks like friendly objective teleports was added on Nov 21, 2025

Along with cooldown reductions

[merry verge]

My friend insists Mirage has a bad ult

[vivid nimbus]

I think the ult is as good as your macro skills are

[merry verge]

also i think Cheat Death might be this games Singed, people will go to hell itself trying to get you

[rich grove]

your friend sure does say a whole buncha shit

[merry verge]

yeahhh

stopped trying to get 'em playing

[rich grove]

cheat death is an extremely effective ragebait item

[vivid nimbus]

Actually cheat death on mirage and you just TP out at 1 HP every time would be so funny

[merry verge]

WoW Paladin Maneuver

[rich grove]

what's a paladin manoeuvre?

christ making that joke made feel the arthritis setting in

[rich grove]

this is just cheat death doorman

[merry verge]

i've only ever seen it on Doorman, Geist, and Shiv

and the shiv was like 40k ahead and just sort of goofin by that point

but seemed not that bad tbh

[rich grove]

someone suggested contesting mid with it

which is going to be my next "i'm bored" experiment

[merry verge]

love plays that make the enemy team want to hit you with a mallet

game has so many ways to Get Their Ass

[vast sandal]

I like your funny words, magic goyf

what does "contesting mid" mean exactly

[rich grove]

well yes, the goyf is a card from magic,

[vast sandal]

like is it just "I can teleport here whenever I want and that means you cannot simply Have Mid"

[rich grove]

when you lose a fight and the enemy team is up in numbers on you, they're likely going to do mid past 30-something minutes, and even past 20-something minutes

[vast sandal]

okay

midBOSS not midLANE

[rich grove]

yeah

[merry verge]

i will say they need to give midboss a Name and a Look so new folks can stop being like 'push blue????' when contest mid is brought- yeahp

[rich grove]

you buy cheat death, you get 5s of guaranteed "I am going to exist" on a character who isn't e.g. sinclair or abrams who has The Contest Mid button

plenty of time to make shit go wrong if you're Like That and you can reliably parry them out of the first couple mid charges to claim some for yourself

which can be enough to radically flip the game

[merry verge]

oh sinclair is an evil choice

'bunny' :3

[rich grove]

yeah sinclair 3 on mid is one of the canon mid contest buttons at this point

it's so brutal

up there with abams/dynamo ult, pocket affliction (kinda), doorman dropping the door and carting everyone into it

[merry verge]

vortex cart is such a move

[rich grove]

vortex cart occasionally has Difficulties but when it hits it's just like yep that's two

[merry verge]

Rem Ult seems solid

doesn't even have to expose himself if enough range

[rich grove]

yeh also solid

you generally want to buy expansion on him in general, this is a non-zero reason as to why

it's just generally good to make his ult more reliable but being able to contest in the weirdest spots is so obnoxious

[merry verge]

the range on tag along also gets kind of wild

flies in from 'cross the lane

[finite patrol]

i buy mystic expansion for ult pretty early

greater expansion i usually wait until i have actives and stuff lined up

[rich grove]

this is the method

[merry verge]

Also they're learning to buy Torment Pulse and oof ouch

'what if Billy also did this? what about that, huh'

[rich grove]

torment pulse working on helpers is just bananas

how. why. what the fuck

[vast sandal]

wait

[merry verge]

surely a bug, surely

[vast sandal]

Torment Pulse works on what

Rem minions?

that's diabolical

[finite patrol]

it works during tag along

it doesnt work with helpers

their shot just kind of looks like it

helpers on troopers are already like super ion shell wave push

[merry verge]

People complaining about Graves autopushing lanes

but Rem Troops are nuts

[finite patrol]

a lot of the reason they are as good as they are are that people dont take them seriously tbh

[rich grove]

ahhh that'd do it

[merry verge]

i mean

pushing a wave to tower by pressing 3

in the general vicinity

with four charges

[finite patrol]

I once had a victor come to defend walker I was pushing with 4 helpers and double wave and he almost had to use his ult before his friend came

[finite patrol]

AP5 upgrades are strong

[rich grove]

TP is still extremely good just because it does trigger while you're napping full invuln on someone but that's a different thing altogether

[finite patrol]

yeah

big range torment pulse that slows your opponents while theyre fighting your buffed up carry

[rich grove]

the after-damage breakdowns of this item are

illuminating

even as someone who's played yamato and victor semi regularly

both of whom use torment as a core power spike

[merry verge]

Like I said, the Rem buffs felt reactionary

folks just gotta figure the little guy out

though still real killable if alone

stop abandoning your boy, teammates

[finite patrol]

oh yeah I dont know why they buffed him lol

[somber creek]

He was fairly low winrate

[finite patrol]

I win most of my rem games

[merry verge]

Rem and Holliday

[somber creek]

Thats cool, but thats also not what they are gonna base things off statistically

[merry verge]

You Will Be Knocked Up

[rich grove]

shiv has basically never had a positive winrate in mm and they have still nerfed him

[merry verge]

also the classic Bebop Nerf

they have to just be bottom of the barrel for 'is this character fun to fight against'

[rich grove]

i think it's hard enough as is to motivate people to play support

so i generally don't super mind them going 'y'know what, juice him'

[finite patrol]

thats a good point thresh

we should buff kelvin

[somber creek]

I think pillow probably does too much damage for how easy it is to land

[finite patrol]

youre so right

[merry verge]

-5 CDR on Pillow Feels like

a little extra

[rich grove]

anecdotally I see rem in my games a whole hell of a lot less than graves/silver/venator who are basically perma locked in

[merry verge]

like his cooldowns aren't long

[finite patrol]

I get rem very often yeah

[merry verge]

I have a Rem in every game

[rich grove]

not to say that appearance rate should be a deciding factor single handedly

[merry verge]

always every new character

[finite patrol]

im learning the tunnel routes

he's a really good hero to improve macro on

[rich grove]

yeah rem doing tunnels vs rem not doing tunnels is

night and day hdodhoddhoodhodhoodhooho

it's just so much free money

[merry verge]

i feel like Doorman made me worse at macro

too much 'i could have already been there'

[finite patrol]

"Abrams play safe, im doing boxes. here are some helpers and a heal"

Abrams did not play safe

[merry verge]

the Bard League of Legends experience..

[finite patrol]

he got himself together but it was a rough laning phase

[merry verge]

i had an Abrams that built Pure Spirit And Nothing Else and uh

seems like that's not the move

he had a rough one

[somber creek]

Thats funny

[merry verge]

i should've checked his Siphon Life numbers

[finite patrol]

that Abrams was building responsibly he was a little too gung ho though

getting a rem save on a 1 hp ally is so satisfying

burst heal guardian ward helper pop off and pillow the enemy away

[rich grove]

the greatest roster of today vs the greatest roster of history

[finite patrol]

swap drifter and mirage with blue and 7

I havent yet seen a team entirely composed of new blood / 6 heroes characters

[vivid nimbus]

Mirage isn't 6 heroes, he's older

[finite patrol]

am aware. he's one of the most recent heroes before 6 heroes. iirc Sinclair, Vyper, Calico, and Holliday were between Mirage and 6 heroes?

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah

And Viscous and Shiv were between initial beta release and Mirage

Huh, Mirage was also the first one released after the end of embargo

[finite patrol]

yeah i mained him right after he came out until I stopped playing for a while like end of 2024?

[torn gulch]

The difference in fun to play factoe

Wow I love playing a backline caster and sleeping

[autumn field]

How does mirage’s 3 work?

Is it just (11+spirit multiplier) x stacks?

… is Billy bisexual

He totally is

[vivid nimbus]

Putting the bi in Billy

[autumn field]

Yeah someone who thinks lash is chiseled like a Greek god and flirts with Vyper is defo bi

Wait no o think Billy and Vyper are fucking

[torn gulch]

Billy and Vyper are definitely fucking

What else would the "Jacket on the ground" imply

[autumn field]

Lmao

[torn gulch]

Also kinda funny to think Billy would not mind being called Lash because he wants to be him

Brother have some self respect

[magic summit]

I love Rem but Rem players so much more need to get all up in their face

[finite patrol]

u say that but where is your close quarters

[mild flume]

I think billy just doesn't give a shit in general

[magic summit]

I would get close quarters if I wasn't so slot locked every game

[finite patrol]

he also just doesnt respect people in general

[torn gulch]

I think Billy does give a lot of shits about stuff he just puts on an act and screams he hates people cuz people hate him for the goat head

One of the paige billy conversations exposes it imo and his internal hypocrisy

[stable forum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281742836878020722/1469997326830665991/image.png?ex=6989b131&is=69885fb1&hm=882cc8c7d2f75c61ef870230eadf4807427d8e92f7c6b859a6e409f981ae5cfa&

[magic summit]

Killing Blow

[vivid nimbus]

Hey does lightning scroll do anything on Silver?

Just asking because I someone build it in my last game

[torn gulch]

I'd have to get home and test it

I don't think it should

Unless somehow transformation abilities are coded as ultimate abilities

[final osprey]

It's possible these notes havent been updated yet, but currently the only character which can buy a useless Lightning Scroll is Pocket

[stable forum]

no

Silver can buy it but it doesn't trigger on her ult claws unless it's changed.

it does give slow on spirit damage still

[autumn field]

he hates everyone, probably himself too

[autumn field]

personally i think it's probably more than that

like, he did the goat head to himself, no?

he reads to me more as misinformed

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah that's what I suspected

She doesn't have much spirit damage either for the slow

[torn gulch]

He gets shit for the goat head all the time from what I understood from his voicelines. Still, doesn't change that he is kind of a loser speaking nonsense without much actual conviction and drive (still love him.)

[stable forum]

it'd work on her werewolf 2

[vivid nimbus]

And also human 3 IIRC

[autumn field]

like, he does get shit for it

but the fucker did learn black magic for it

he's got something for the head

but yeah he's kinda a shallow man

[stable forum]

I love the Billy / Vindicta voicelines

[autumn field]

he's got enough conviction to fight w/ the patrons though, which is interesting

i cant exactly characterize him with so little

[final osprey]

he is trying to make the world better with his wish according to the patrons but god knows what the specifics actually are

[autumn field]

but like, dude feels like he's got a fuckton of internalized self-hatred

and he still pays taxes, so he does believe in society in spite of his anarchy

feels like a "everything has gone too far" situation

[final osprey]

I don't think he's an actual Anarchist. Like I don't think he's read theory or volunteers at food banks.

[autumn field]

he's really misinformed i feel

like, dude doesnt read, because fuck reading

dude seriously needs therapy

very childish person

[vivid nimbus]

Inspired me to make this tier list

[glass flicker]

I find it odd that in a world of genies, monsters, inter-dimensional creatures etc that the goat head is any sort of stigma. I imagine people are born with that shit all the time

[vivid nimbus]

That's what Paige thinks too

I think Billy isn't an outsider because of the goat head, it's because he's abrasive to everyone he meets

[warm sonnet]

He also gave himself a goat head

For what reason, we should never know

[mild flume]

yeah like he is kinda just a dick

[final osprey]

well, I think all those guys also face Stigma. Except maybe Genies because they seem to be in a position of power

But like, Ixians of like decently high standing socially and class wise can still just be murdered with the police not doing anything.

[frail jasper]

Yeah Billy is just an anarchist jackass who acquired the goat head through some means

I like his interaction with vindicta where she calls him out for not actually doing anything besides being loud. Meanwhile she's systematically assassinating the Friends of Humanity and dismantling their organization.

[somber creek]

Even thats hypocritical since its not actually accomplishing anything tbh

[frail jasper]

I mean it's exactly what she is out to do though.

"I want to kill these people" -> go kill those people

[final osprey]

I think it's accomplishing something in that it kills them. They're dead. Dead in a way that means they cant get up to being FoH anymore.

[stable forum]

haze has some good things to say about that

which is funny because she's a government assassin- sorry, 'asset'

[still swan]

Haze is interesting in that area in she seems to have some morals, but at the same time those morals conflict with her job and that weighs on her

Similar to Reed from 2077

Like she outright tells Ivy (who she likes) that Ivy shouldn't join the OSIC because she's too nice

[edgy fog]

She also tells Graves that she doesn't want her as a sandman, but as a Medium

like she seems to believe in the institution, but not be a fan of her job

Which is something she shares with Venator

[agile void]

and tells abrams to join because there is not enough people that care about what doors they kick down

[frail jasper]

Dialogue with drifter says it clearer, she knows she's good at what she does but that's not the same thing as liking what she does

[edgy fog]

nice

[agile void]

its pretty clear she actually believes in the system but she knows the corruption that is within

[finite grotto]

finally got into deadlock 😌

its sooo fun

[merry verge]

These character events are so good at generating buzz, so many new folk

\o\ welcome to the only good moba

[finite grotto]

hmhmh

[final osprey]

Has there been some rank weirdness recently? For some reason I'm in Ritualist when a couple of weeks ago I was like Seeker.

[finite grotto]

looking at a video and wow i have been playing holliday so wrong

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1qyixch/me_and_my_friend_kept_making_the_skyrim_joke_but/

[merry verge]

Gahd I'm so good at getting people to 2% hp and getting an assist as Silver

Need to be more patient about biting

[vivid nimbus]

A kill (for your team) is a kill

[merry verge]

Oh no yeah I'm fine with that but you need final hits to reset ult duration

[vivid nimbus]

Oh, assists don't count? Huh

[merry verge]

Doesn't seem so

Wouldn't mind getting half bonus like a Drifter

[finite grotto]

it is actually crazy how much more intuitive holliday is now that i know how to actually use th ebarrels

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1qymw05/silver_is_officially_the_fandoms_town_bicycle/

[dusky flume]

It's very fun to nyoooom in matches

Pretty much half the fun

[finite grotto]

spiking barrels is so fun

[frail jasper]

Big population surge of unranked people skewed the rank assignments for some people (me included, I jumped two tiers up)

[ivory reef]

i'm ritualist 5 apparently

[twilit roost]

Devs bumped people up a few ranks to help smooth out the ranking curve because of the influx of new and returning players

[dusky flume]

Finally work up the nerve to do a match with other players

Start winning

Half the enemy team disconnects

[twilit roost]

Hey that counts as a win

[frail jasper]

It counts but maybe isn't satisfying

[still swan]

How do you find your rank?

[severe loom]

You have to click your own icon in the top right, brings up a hero stats screen with a tab for rank

[finite grotto]

I havent unlocked ranked yet

[twilit roost]

That's the secret, it's always ranked

[warped ridge]

Top right hand corner
Click Profile

Skill rating

[finite grotto]

oh? i thought you needed to play like 50 games to unlock it

also

[final osprey]

I think you need to play like 10 games to enter something other than Obscure?

[finite grotto]

pure pain the game

[warped ridge]

10 games or so for it to place you, but like, 30-50 games for it to more accurately adjust

since it continues to swing

[finite grotto]

ahhh

[twilit roost]

It mightve been a year or so ago? Ranked and unranked got combined later because of player count

[finite grotto]

ahhh

[twilit roost]

Would really like to see it get split again

[finite grotto]

ok i am ritualist 3 but i only have played 27 games so far

i def need way more practice with holliday

[merry verge]

That's kind of eternal for Holliday

[frail jasper]

Gotta learn air strafing, a bit of movement tech, and the barrel jump trick

[finite grotto]

the barrel spiking i have down now i think

movement is def a construction site for me cause I also uh have a abominable way of using wasd

[frail jasper]

Buddy is using the armored core claw grip

[finite grotto]

I uh

[warped ridge]

yeah like, I think there's some weirdness going on where they like, didn't do proper rank resets at every possible point

So you have people that are worse/better than what their rank is still have to get adjusted which goofs the MMR more than usual.

Also playing with people also makes things a bit more scuffed cause you have rank disparity

EG I'm Emmisary 5 or w/e and my friend is Initiate 3

[finite grotto]

I use my index finger for w and then my thumb for shift, space and sometimes a and d

[warped ridge]

the main thing to keep in mind is as long as you keep playing your rank will adjust to where it should be and games will start feeling more even

[still swan]

I'm initiate 2

though I;m also new

[warped ridge]

yeh

like I should prob be more intiate myself

[frail jasper]

I got stuck in low alchemist for a long while because I don't play hard carries and I kept having legitimate "my team is losing the game for me" matchmaking, which was rather frustrating

[finite grotto]

I embarassingly never got "taught" what like the standard way for using wasd so i have been using my weirdo mode for 10+ years and I do not have the time for unlearning

[warped ridge]

but Idk how the rank system works for placement

like the placement system might also be fudged because if it doesn't actually place holistically then it can place based on some random rank level. (EG lock people to alchemist max or something)

but Idk, would have to ask people new to deadlock what ranks are they getting

[frail jasper]

Topical but on a tangent there's just something that really gets a chuckle out of deadlock chat stuff

[finite grotto]

That's my finger positions when I forward dash

[warped ridge]

so real talk

computer ergo isn't about what is the most "general" ergo setup, it's about what is most ergo to you

If you can play for 8 hours straight with no real pain, hand cramps, w/e, then it's fine

[frail jasper]

It's probably because the text is directly linked to a character portrait and oftentimes people are willing to RP as that character

[finite grotto]

it is so fun

[warped ridge]

like I have crouch bound to m4/m5

[finite grotto]

Oh i also wanted to ask. since this is a valve game, does walljumping get easier if you let go of w

[finite grotto]

ohhh i might also do that

i def use the slide for infinite ammo way to rarely

and I also saw you can use it for like fast mantle stuff?

[warped ridge]

uhhh Idk
https://www.dlmovement.wiki/
I know air strafe means letting go of W but Idk if letting go of W matters for anything else

[frail jasper]

My favorite is usually people in voice chat committing to Lash RP but they're rattling off trans ally stuff but still in character so it's drenched in Lash's asshole ego

[warped ridge]

like I do edge boosting while holding W and it works

[finite patrol]

Rank badges represent your MMR relative to the player base. As many new players have joined, most existing players will go up in ranks.

I have gone from high emissary to Archon 5 to Oracle 3 over the last 2 weeks and I've only improved a little

[frail jasper]

Edge boosting is fine for holding W, unless you're edge boosting into air strafe (useful for going around corners)

[warped ridge]

almost never because I know the map rotations very little

[finite grotto]

i am dreading to learn air strifing again. was my bane in tf2 aswell

[warped ridge]

movement tech hasn't bothered me tooooo much

main thing I run into is like

[frail jasper]

I'm no Leif for sure. At least use it on the air vents though, it opens up your potential so much

[warped ridge]

"oh you can't instant corner boost"

which is goofy because like

if you could I would use it 24/7

but because I have to wait for air time I'm like "eh not that useful"

but again that's mainly cause I don't have the full map rotations

[frail jasper]

And then you try calico and now you've got all the vent routes too

[finite grotto]

edgeboosting is def my next project to get down while playing

and i def need to play atleast play more characters once

[dusky flume]

It's very fun to bonk people with a buffed up Billy

Melting health bars 😌

[merry verge]

Aright they gotta nerf Yamato yesterday

No wonder this is the only character I do well on

[somber creek]

I don't think she's particularly overpowered

she's very feast or famine

[merry verge]

I'unno, I'd say she's maybe one of the best in the game

bad at.. disengaging?

Spellbreaker can eat the first Power Slash

like I'm saying this as someone that likes playing her and is maybe my best character

[finite grotto]

I have seen her played a ton

and i think i have heard in higher elos she is also mega prevalent

[somber creek]

She definitely is not one of the best in the game

[rich grove]

she is

[somber creek]

She's nowhere near Graves' or Viktor who are The Best currently

She's Good Not Great

[merry verge]

What's she not good at?

Aside from fleeing

[finite grotto]

I dont know how like "well thought of" deathy is but in their tierlist they have them at S+

[merry verge]

She's the only character I've felt sort of 'what can they even do to me' while playing

I guess it's why Curse Exists

but that still needs a team to properly descend on you

[rich grove]

I'm pretty cautious about judging graves

I don't think *yamato's like top 1 or anything but she's clearly very good

[somber creek]

Im looking at pick and winrates and Yam is just above average at every skill level

[rich grove]

that doesn't correspond to anything

[merry verge]

Mina has a super low WR right

[rich grove]

Shiv was like 45% at all levels for months while everyone agreed he was OP

[finite grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1p1icS3bOQ Poshy also rates them mega high and they appear regualry now in like the top level

[merry verge]

god that forehead beside Mina Perfection

[somber creek]

Yamato and Vyper need model updates bad

[rich grove]

Vyper I'm kind of whatever on but Yamato is FANG levels of "this has gotta be racist"

Vyper looking super scuffed is like yeah that's in character

[merry verge]

I want new Vyper model but do hope she stays wearing Overalls that mostly don't fit

Must remain the AntiCalico

[somber creek]

But yeah like I know winrate isnt the one statistic to rule them all but its the most useful to generally get a grip on how a champ is doing.

Hence why Graves being in 90% of games but still having a 60% winrate is Insane

[finite grotto]

quick sidenote can you cultist jungle creeps?

[magic summit]

There aren't reliable statistics right now

[somber creek]

You should only be cultisting jungle creeps

[merry verge]

this is the primary use, y'wanna eat A Biggest Boy

[magic summit]

A pretty good bit ago Deadlock changed their API that made all the stat checking sites much more unable to reliably get match information

[finite grotto]

nodnod

[lavish shale]

yes, and you should always cultist a t3 jungle camp when you can

[rich grove]

the fact that stat sites are now all based on self-uploading + generally low pop + fucked mm are all strong reasons to doubt raw winrate

[magic summit]

And the "pros" of deadlock are in reality a collection of a few dozen people that play against each other constantly where it's just the same 2 teams that win every time

[warped ridge]

the only winrate that matters is your personal winrate

[magic summit]

To getting general stats from things can be very unreliable

[rich grove]

I suspect a character who just wins macro passively for existing is good against teams of randos with no or negative communication

and faltering macro at the best of times

[finite grotto]

hmhm

[merry verge]

how much money do I have to give Valve for Three Stamina Silver

[magic summit]

Even more fucked when Deadlock as a game has characters that can have like 45% winrate in most games and then when you get to Eternus 6 go to like 59%

(Thanks Shiv)

[merry verge]

Shiv and Yam are big on that

[rich grove]

Shiv wasn't even positive in Eternus

it was comedy

[magic summit]

Truly the Nightstalker of Deadlock

Either literally useless or breaks the entire game over his knee in 20 minutes

[somber creek]

Is Shiv a Vampire or a Werewolf ya think

[magic summit]

I guess the league equivalent is Rengar, I think

[rich grove]

shiv is monkey king

[magic summit]

An even more diabolical creature(Italian)

[somber creek]

I mean any assassin in League can work

[finite grotto]

shiv is a character i prob should try but the visual design puts me of them

[somber creek]

Katarina, Yasuo, etc etc

[rich grove]

I just imagined Shiv doing West Side Story choreo

it's beautiful

[finite grotto]

but yamato jumped up a lot after the buffs (esp in something like dns) and spirit yamato is scawy for sure

[magic summit]

I remember crashing out after using healing rite and a random Shiv randomly hit me for 1 damage with his shotgun from a mile away, started yelling about him flicking his hair in my direction and a single drip of his hair grease melted through my skin

[somber creek]

Clearly

ou don'town a mechanical arm

[rich grove]

a single strand of hair got your ass

[magic summit]

The Mystic Reverb buff coming out shortly after buffing the scaling on Power Slash was pretty cool, yeah

Get a health reset every 6 seconds

[finite grotto]

I need to buy more alchemical fire

that item feels really nice 👀

[merry verge]

I don't play anyone that can really make good use of Alchy

[rich grove]

the spirit spike changes were good on her, the reverb buff was absolutely bananas

[merry verge]

Reverb buff truly felt outta nowhere, I thought that item was like fine

[rich grove]

she's just been consistently strong for a minute and most of the system/item changes have been beneficial with few notable nerfs

[merry verge]

also gets one of the only alt fires in the game, selfish creature

so fun to pester folks in lane with though

[rich grove]

this mf throwing beans

[merry verge]

I thought for sure Venator would have one, man has three guns

[twilit roost]

Auto and fuller auto

[finite grotto]

oh second sidenote. Are there items that allow Pockets ult to kill?

[edgy fog]

Lightning scroll does not proc on pockets ult

So not that

[merry verge]

I want to say intentionally no

Being Shiv does let it kill you though

[finite patrol]

<@&1277035919182008330> Alright, it's a new year, new patch, starting this again for folks who want to get some regularly scheduled stacking in. Please paint over every day with your regular availability Mon-Sun. Remember to set your time zone. We usually play for 2-3 hours when we got together last fall, but it's drop-in, drop-out. If you want, leave extra info like Rank in the comments. Being a stack, we will probably have an odd matchmaking experience, but Initiates with Phantoms will probably be extra rough. Once a bunch of people have put stuff down, I'll corroborate stuff and post up what times are best for folks in different time zones. Hopefully we can get a couple stacks running this time!

Follow this link to put in your deets, don't forget to enter timezone, nickname on this server, and select any times you're normally available (not just, e.g., the coming week): https://whenisgood.net/xr9rhxx

These are the times we currently have set up. If you'd like me to add you to the list for one of these times, you can fill out the above form and then DM me and I'll add you to the sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15G7TKHhT6KDEQPp8CPEG-nsyb3dOoi9f9Zq6PTxBKSY/

Ping me if you gots any questions about the thingy.

[magic summit]

No

You can get Spirit Burn and proc that with other abilities to then have them sprint away only to get to one health from Affliction then die the last part to the burn

[finite patrol]

spirit burn is pretty solid. i wouldnt buy e.g. decay to kill secure

[magic summit]

Decay is non-lethal anyhow

[finite patrol]

oh snap

i did not realize. probably because i only buy it on shiv and they die to my knives lol

affliction is amazing any way because its a massive dur aoe antiheal and just makes the fight so fucking hard for the enemy team

[rich grove]

if you hit 2 or 3 the teamfight is pretty much just over then and there

you pretty much have to just nut up and buy divine barrier if you don't want to lose half your hp every time pocket hits 4

[finite grotto]

ye been really enjoying pocket

leaping into an ult is so fun

[rich grove]

god help me...

[finite grotto]

did my first haze game. def think the character will go into my rotation

is the ult usually the target for surge of power`?

[finite patrol]

sleep dagger

it has really good spirit scaling so the imbue power is most impactful

and youre almost always throwing dagger pretty shortly before ulting anyway

[finite grotto]

oh that makes sense. I totally overlooked the dagger scaling

[rich grove]

yeah it's sleep dagger all the way

you also get movement speed bonus + the fleetfoot passive so you aren't slowed by shooting your guns

which means that after you spray your sleeping target in the head, you can chase after them at max speed + slide all over the place to extend your mag

[finite grotto]

ohhh ye i see it.

[rich grove]

sliding while shooting is another core part of playing haze and I would get used to doing it as much as possible

she has one of the highest base movespeeds in the cast

[finite patrol]

also instant dash is very important

[finite grotto]

i def didnt do that enough last game

[rich grove]

and that in conjunction with burst fire + surge of power lets you schliiiide like crazy

[finite patrol]

when you dash on the ground, you cant shoot. this is not true while airdashing. so you jump and then immediately dash so you can keep shooting while dashing, then you slide and hop

[finite grotto]

ohhh

ye I got mega fed in that game so I def feel like i didnt learn a lot about actually playing haze

[random urchin]

Sleep Dagger when I'm playing vindicta is infuriating lol

Ground time now

[lavish grove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3b_MqaXRk

[finite grotto]

omg

the fucking turn time in third person is killing me

[rich grove]

scream

[rich grove]

woods time for you

[granite heath]

now put the Dota heroes and RTS controls in Deadlock

[finite patrol]

this is so cursed

[twilit roost]

Add an rts hero to deadlock like Abathur

[granite heath]

I think Rem is pretty close to being an Abathurlike

[rich grove]

ur just eepy

[granite heath]

I've been having a lot of fun with splitpushing Rem

[finite patrol]

@rich grove could you please pin this while I set things up: #1276682303384457256 message ?

[rich grove]

in teamfights you're also just probably most effective ulting, chucking pillows once or twice, and then spending the rest of the time- yeah sure

[finite patrol]

thanks!

[rich grove]

-trying to bounce between teammates to sleep

[finite patrol]

sorry for interrupting you

[rich grove]

maybe chucking one or two actives out

[finite patrol]

rem has a lot of downtime in a team fight and its fucking wierd

[granite heath]

Throwing out the intercontinental ballistic pillow is fun

[finite patrol]

very good for my slow old man brain i have more time to plot

[rich grove]

the most mechanically intensive gap between good and bad rems is the tunnel run route and even that's 90% just gamesense

"yeah I can leave my duo to hold the lane for a bit while I hoover up 1200 free souls and don't split the wave"

[granite heath]

Do the tunnels close if you've taken damage, is that the gate mechanism?

[finite patrol]

yup

if you got hit recently you cant tunnel, same timing as zip i think

[granite heath]

makes sense

[rich grove]

he is slippy enough as is