Deadlock

[warped ridge]

My votes are broken

[quiet sapphire]

sharpshooter and ult?

yeah they patched that

quick

[finite patrol]

yeah he only does huge amounts of damage instead of infinity now

[quiet sapphire]

archmother followers when the priest pulls out the quake railgun

[finite patrol]

im voting for Apollo since I dont have a lot of particular interest in the last 2 and most people I know who play want apollo

[quiet sapphire]

it's kind of funny 2-3 shotting vindictas in the air

[finite patrol]

look at me. im the sniper now

[quiet sapphire]

countersniping

[twilit roost]

The gray talon special

[quiet sapphire]

actually a sick kit though

it's the one m1 character i actually want to play

[finite patrol]

he's super sweet

I think they pulled off the weapon master theme

[quiet sapphire]

yeah it's sick that all his abilities are just different weapons

[lavish grove]

When playing Venator I say Amen instead of GGs at the end of games

[quiet sapphire]

the gun's velocity is super high too

feels good

holy

[finite patrol]

I also like the gun ability scaling since it means that he's not really a fire rate guy

[agile void]

I do believe his grenade should scale off spirit

for nothing else but motivate people to add a little bit of spirit in there beyond.... what? Torment pulse?

[lavish grove]

I mean he’s a gun carry through and through

The most you want spirit is rapid recharge for his funny grenade max build

Torment pulse doesn’t really make sense for him

[agile void]

I mean grenade is antiheal base kit

its good to have

[quiet sapphire]

yeah I feel like the spirit scaling with bullet/magic resist is just so

[agile void]

and worth considering making it have duration

[quiet sapphire]

If you get knockdown or silence wave or something like that

It's not a completely dead item

plus a bit of extra damage on your trap

they've pretty purposefully not put spirit scaling on his abilities

[plain furnace]

I just saw Cirno's Builds for Kelvin. They seem really nice in their presentation, and easy to follow and apply during a game

[finite patrol]

I use the nade one

[warped ridge]

Cirno?

Kelvin?

[warm sonnet]

Metal gear?

[warped ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/cirno-gaming-cirno-gaming-fumo-touhou-gif-25772904

[finite patrol]

cirno is the name of a player who writes guides

[ivory reef]

tommy venatored jenny so hard she went through the floor

little guy is littler guy

[finite patrol]

gutshot?

[granite heath]

kerblammed

[plain furnace]

Yeah, it's a pretty step-by-step build, with advices, room for adaptability, hedge cases taken into account. There are a lot of items, but they're set up nicely

[edgy fog]

I do love Venator's crossbow

I want to make it do terrible things to people

[late hare]

man I really need to upgrade my PC so I can be even more of a menace

I can perform surprisingly well even though I'm usually floating somewhere around 20 FPS I think, but it'd be nice to be able to pull off sick tricks

[agile void]

this is a vyper ass line

[edgy fog]

I can also entirely imagine "I'm sorry Daddy I've been a bad girl" and Venator lets out a weary "It's 'Pardon me father I have sinned' girl."

[plain furnace]

Would anyone have advice / videos on buildcrafting ? Aside from looking at reputable builds, what are the common rules to conceive a build ?
Like, for instance, once I know I want to make a build for Vyper, built around her second ability, and I've seen one or two builds that do this, what things to take into consideration ?

[warped ridge]

I wish I could tell you

All I know is toxic bullets is a gr8 gun item that's anti heal

[plain furnace]

OW
Ricochet seems real good

[lavish shale]

Can be good, mainly if you have onhits you wanna spread

Or if you got ally ults like Lash or Dynamo grouping people up

[vestal hearth]

I feel... like that's a new sentence.

[vestal trench]

ok

i take it back, i didnt fuck with her design as much but the jacket and boots and the shading are really saving it for me

[agile void]

get the 4.8 spike in health and either gun/spirit

or both if you are someone like Haze

[plain furnace]

Oh, I meant more as a general question, not specific to this character build idea

[agile void]

haze is one that gets more ammo based on how much spirit she has so unironically if you want your gun to be a unending stream of bullets, titanic mag + boundless spirit is a thing

[agile void]

that is why I said

hit the 4.8k spikes

[plain furnace]

Ow, okay

[merry verge]

I will never understand how Haze is so popular

She's maybe one of the coolest looking heroes in the game but her gameplay is so...

[agile void]

look at the star

[plain furnace]

Apart from that, are there other staples or mandatory steps to think about when creating a build ?

[merry verge]

Counterpicking can be important depending on the matchup

There's so many variables it's tough

[plain furnace]

Apart from the Lane/Core/Late divide, and a Counter Tools section

[agile void]

not really

[merry verge]

if you know which characters you like could try to find annotated builds

[agile void]

but you need to know what you are doing

[finite patrol]

shes Jane shoot woman and people love shoot of gun

[agile void]

and again, if you dont want to experiment

[merry verge]

everyone shoots gun

[vestal trench]

build order, having sort of a split options for if early lane goes well or bad for you, pivoting to healing or into pushing your advantage with power spikes id say

[agile void]

there is a list of builds to take from, no need to builtcraft

[finite patrol]

but she shoots gun the shootiest and her gun is really easy and satisfying to use

[plain furnace]

Was she also created by the RoR dev, like Vyper ? Because Haze feels like a RoR char too, I think

[warped ridge]

4.8k spikes?

The 4.8k items?

[agile void]

she was a neon prime character

[vestal trench]

to me lash is literally loader

but i think they came on after

[warped ridge]

I miss Haze's bunny design

[agile void]

haze and infernus are some of the heroes we know that existed in neon prime besides dynamo, talon, yamato and MnK

[agile void]

its the investment in each category of item

if you have 4.8k total in souls on a category, you are getting stats through the investment in that category

some builds try to get this spike because its just a nice addition

so you normally buy like, a tier 2 item, and a tier 3 item in any category to make it work

for example on non gunny chars they still get the 4.8k spike early game to have a little more dps in between their bursts of damage

[twilit roost]

The spike specifically is where you get the biggest bang for your buck in that respective category which is why so many builds focus on it, just for general build knowledge

[agile void]

a common 4.8k combo on gun was like, K dash and cultist sacrifice

[finite patrol]

less good now but still solid

[warped ridge]

K dash cultist sacrifice

[agile void]

on haze its like, slowing hex/brs and surge of power for spirit spike

[finite patrol]

according to thresh who plays her hex + SoP pretty much every game

[agile void]

if that is not your combo, you either are playing something weird like punch haze, or you are building her as a carry

[merry verge]

Rapid Recharge is so goddamn fun on Venator

You're just always doing something

folks say the traps aren't great but you get a bunch and pretty quick

[agile void]

I imagine you max grenade asap too?

[warped ridge]

But I want to play her like an assassin

[agile void]

and that is exactly what you normally build

the spirit is to have enough bullets to kill someone quickly

[merry verge]

also 50% antiheal is great into like

a lotta folks recently

[warped ridge]

Toxic bullets got me when no gun does

[merry verge]

also can't decide if I like Torment Pulse on Silver, I keep seeing it in new builds :|a

[finite patrol]

its such an odd choice to me. like how much damage can it possibly deal? there are better ways to get procs too

[merry verge]

Like maybe if you go for duration or CDR for some extra spirit? but it's so unrewarding for her

[frail jasper]

TP does add up to a lot of damage over the course of a game. Silver isn't gonna be building lots of spirit stuff though so it's not gonna hit max potential like on a caster type hero

[merry verge]

I think it's partly to help her shapeshift now that it takes more damage

waveclear

[frail jasper]

It does work best where silver already wants to be: fighting in close range

[lavish grove]

Silver is so goddamn fun

my first good game of her

[merry verge]

ogh, Venator having a rough one

good stuff

[lavish grove]

I made sure of that in lane

[merry verge]

His chunky self having 3 stamina while the Werewolf is locked in 2, CRIMES

[lavish grove]

TRUUUUUUE

Give Silver base 3 stamina

[lavish shale]

I'm honestly not sure why Silver has only 2

I get it for most of the characters who only have 2, but her it puzzles me a bit

[lavish grove]

Same tbh

Her 2 is good mobility but like

It’s not that good

It’s not like Mina where it’s better then 99% of the mobility skills in the game

[torn gulch]

If you turn your camera really quickly while it lands you can land behind someone

[vestal trench]

it does refill stamina sometimes if you level it, but yeah

[torn gulch]

Not sure if it is it's intended usw

[torn gulch]

It's to make sure werewolf form is not too oppressive so you have to actually land Alt2

And i believe torment pulsw does nothing in isolation, but it's here to proc bullet shred

[finite patrol]

u could just buy the gun items that shred

[torn gulch]

Hollow point requires you to be high hp, you can't proc crippling with your wolf form

[finite patrol]

4800 for 10% resist reduction compared to 3200 for 9% but you have to be high health to proc it and it scales your damage seems pretty straightforward to me

also hunters aura

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1qxcn3h/venator_blowing_my_head_off/

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1qxf9y5/a_very_skill_intensive_venator_outplay/

[torn gulch]

I wonder on the viability of melee venator. You can get a heavy in if you wallslam on your 3 and the T3 makes melee deal pure damage if you slam

"Are you stupid" yes perhaps

[merry verge]

Silver Bootkick someone into Graves Grasp.. ogh, videosgame..

[agile void]

you need duration minimun

Im pretty sure your slam doesnt have enough duration to safely heavy melee

And maybe you only need melee charge, as the other melee items wont be that useful on you

[granite heath]

Even with Superior Duration you need to be right on top of them to get the heavy melee to hit

[merry verge]

Echo Shard shotgun..doublestun (don't do this thing)

though now I'm wondering what kind of mobility that'd getcha

[granite heath]

you can retain the bless on heavy melee if you whiff it, so gutshot --> bait parry --> stake 'em could work?

[autumn field]

huh

[quaint kernel]

Is Silver broken?

I was playing as her earlier and got like 10 kills in 10 minutes with her ult

[ivory reef]

No you're just good

[somber creek]

Shes currently very low winrate

Like last i checked she was D Tier

[twilit roost]

she's very good but tough to use

[finite patrol]

she's pretty much unstoppable late game without serious focusing

shes basically ursa in ult with build up time

[twilit roost]

winrate is low but that's because a lot of people are bad at playing her

[finite patrol]

shes also fucking hard to play

[autumn field]

heh.

[warped ridge]

Wow did Apollo actually win?

[twilit roost]

https://packaged-media.redd.it/ow6gicycejgg1/pb/m2-res_480p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1770429600&s=3f20051581ee307caa2ac3bd70edb763a49ebf4d 67?

[finite patrol]

monday

[twilit roost]

ratking is monday, that's a lock

[merry verge]

Ratking and Celeste doublefeature

[quaint kernel]

I am so bad at mobas tho but I was at least ahead in souls for 20 minutes

[torn gulch]

If you're shooting troopers

you're probably better than all of the woodlow

[finite patrol]

what the fuck is woodlow

[warped ridge]

People who are new to the game and don't understand the mechanics due to Deadlock having 0 onboarding

Or are so bad they are equivalent to that

If you shoot minions you're better because you understand that you need to do something other than shoot at enemy players

[agile void]

https://youtu.be/lu-ZAAK3xnk

[warped ridge]

Everybody who is Obscuras is technically woodlow due to being unranked

[twilit roost]

like bronze, silver, gold, etc. wood is below all those

[twilit roost]

oops sorry meant to respont to nik

[warped ridge]

It's ok

I sometimes ping myself on accident

[severe loom]

Tom is that you?

[autumn field]

how did doorman get mvp lmao

[granite heath]

most assists

[merry verge]

Setting up all those kills like the professional he is

[mild flume]

humble service worker "dishrag" deserves some accolades

[merry verge]

tbh i'm a little foggy on what constitutes an assist, sometimes y'get them still flying in on the zip

[granite heath]

yeah that's the moral support assist

[merry verge]

Almost Participation Award

Creating space the enemy couldn't take, tactics

[finite patrol]

voyeuristic assist

[agile void]

looks similar to mine

[vestal trench]

https://bsky.app/profile/loudwindow.bsky.social/post/3me6jwjz2cc2l

The Bohr Wyrms (@loudwindow.bsky.social)

Celeste Deadlock's updated model with melanin

Likes

168

Bluesky · Feb 6, 2026, 8:57 AM

[agile void]

I was put as mvp but I think it has to do with death/kill ratio

haze died 2 times, I died one

[vestal trench]

like its the melanated version in this image so different, but the updated model really changed my mind, look at her little teeth

[agile void]

.

[autumn field]

Vindicator is literally this rn

[agile void]

https://youtu.be/TuNZgnfhFmI

[agile void]

that is a pretty sizable amount of fanfics for a game that is in close alpha with pretty much no real story beyond character interactions and the Geist VN

[autumn field]

bruh what

[warped ridge]

I should very obviously write something

[autumn field]

this is round 1

[warped ridge]

I've gotten them on round 1 before

[agile void]

check characters

[warped ridge]

not all 3 tier 4s tho

[agile void]

doorman on top

of fucking course its the dorito man

[still swan]

Doorman985

[warped ridge]

ok I should definitely write something

[finite patrol]

I am completely unsurprised

[agile void]

this is the list

of course its either yaoi or the toxic relationships

oh it already surpassed dota2

[vast sandal]

Of course Doorman Tumblrsexyman himself is at the top

[finite patrol]

2nd is kinda surprising to me

[merry verge]

It's because of his lines with Doorman

S'all over tumblrs

[finite patrol]

ahh

[merry verge]

also he's scrungly

folks love that

[agile void]

Half of the fanfics is "Drifter x doorman"

and its a struggle over who is on top or who is the bottom

[finite patrol]

I see

[mild flume]

I have definitely been told drifter is hot

though uh, does raise some questions

[warped ridge]

I want to boop bunny haze on the nose

[random urchin]

It's the Matt Mercer doing an accent that you can't quite place what he's going for effect

[mild flume]

I mean its cajun english right

that he is going for

but I'm also told scrungly brooding serial killer has an appeal

[twilit roost]

it's activating the True Blood sleeper agents

[random urchin]

I couldn't tell if it was that or like mystery eastern European vampire done kinda poorly

Cajun makes more sense

[severe loom]

Yeah, he's very Cajun, like Gambit

Also he's very directly the kind of serial killer sadistic that gets some folks worked up, like he has lines about killing close relatives to his teammates and attacking helpless victims being a favorite

[finite patrol]

having the hots for serial killers is something I am comfortable not understanding

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1qxpkjp/i_love_this_game_so_much/

[agile void]

women being monsterfuckers

[mild flume]

having some graves thoughts

I'm wondering about a wall focused build around her area control and such

I think the gun stuff is nice but I really feel like her wall gets quite horrific

had a few street brawls with echo shard / refresh / etc that got really out of control

esp on the siege and defense

[agile void]

do you put them as it is or do you change the angle?

Making it diagonal is pretty good in most fights

[mild flume]

I like diagonal/ facing out from you

but also not changing it and puting it behind people its very easy to back into

by accident

[finite patrol]

ooooh baby venator does feel damn smooth to play

i had a street brawl game where i got echo shard on wall early and that was monstrous

wall is really just best in class crowd control

[mild flume]

its like 2.88s with duration extender

and thats like death

close to 3 seconds of root

for anyone that touches it

I also think that possibly one forward and one sideways is really effective too

really just box out bits of the fight

[finite patrol]

space jace the fuckers

[mild flume]

skill build I'm not entirely sure

I do think maxing the jar is usually the best

but I wonder if in this kinda build its better to just go tombstone wall

as thats what we are doing

[finite patrol]

i really like saving your points and going tomb tomb after you get ult

[mild flume]

I can see that

my reasoning is just jar siphon 1 each is both cheap and helps a lot in lane

[finite patrol]

fair

she does need more help in lane now that they reduced her range to "2"

[mild flume]

yeah

2 other things I'm kinda bouncing around in my head is like

warp stone and arcane surge

surge is nice esp to use for tombstone but it takes the same bit as stam mastery which I think is just needed

though maybe could be a luxury? idk

and warp stone is probably the best escape you can buy which you will need if you are shoving lanes and teamfigting a lot

like I think in theory running away into any building or alley or something

put wall in front warp stone up should hopefully get you out

[merry verge]

Arcane Surge and Stamina Mastery.. nevaland

[finite patrol]

surge stam is not as crazy as u might think

[mild flume]

yeah I mean maybe just both is actually good

I'm also starting to wonder about rapid recharge

given I'm maxxing jar third

[warped ridge]

rip me

[bleak thicket]

?

[warped ridge]

the game thinks I'm Emissary when I should be initiate 😭

can't even get mvp

probably didn't fight enough

[vivid nimbus]

I’m pretty sure the MVP system has a CC score aspect too

Which means landing graves roots or doorman carts all game doesn’t show up on the scoreboard but can get them MVP

[stable forum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281742836878020722/1469542023131303957/3F11811.MP4?ex=69880929&is=6986b7a9&hm=dac2ade93173945eaad097b893c2a6ad9b69ff72df982a16456f81af7240308e&

I liked doing that.

also Sinclair stealing Victor's ult in the background
they did that all game
it was very funny

[autumn field]

i had a match where 2 enemies instaleft

so i spent a whole round just 67ing with graves

[finite patrol]

i just lost 3 games and went from archon VI to archon V to oracle III it really doesnt mean anything lol

[lavish grove]

Chat, what characters do y’all think you see the least?

[vivid nimbus]

In my games? Sinclair

[lavish grove]

Yah, I was thinking them too

I was just wondering if it was others experience

[somber creek]

Mirage, Sinclair, Vyper

[vivid nimbus]

I don't see Kelvin or Talon or Mirage that often either

[autumn field]

tank graves is INSANE

i straight up couldnt die in lategame

graves imo, is too fucking good at street brawl

because even green works on her because of her 1

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1qxa8wz/where_the_hell_did_viscous_learn_that/

[finite patrol]

This is one of the best reporting that statlocker provides

i dont like the win rates or tiers but pick rate is pretty useful for seeing who's under and overplayed

[lavish grove]

Oh sick, didn’t realized they tracked that

[stable forum]

Right, I'd like to figure out how to kill Mo & Krill as Silver for being aggressively on the map.

current options for kill krill list are:
Focus Lens
Point Blank??
Slowing Bullets??
Knockdown
Silence Wave?

I'd like additional suggestions for ways to kill Mo & Krill as Silver!

I'm gonna try to test Knockdown and Focus Lens on Silver in general. I thiiink Knockdown will lean more into Lycan wheras Focus Lens would lean more into 'human' form? Because I suspect with Focus Lens you kill people before you transform moderately often >.>

PB & Slowing Bullets are in the list because Burrow gives flat speed

[rich grove]

i assume you are always buying toxic bullets

i think SB is also part of a ton of high-level silver builds just because it takes 2 shots to build

should just be generically useful on the character

[stable forum]

no I'm not buying Toxic Bullets, I buy shreds. I'm... not super impressed with Toxic on Silver?

[vivid nimbus]

I had to look up what MnK's 1 does

[rich grove]

feels like the most obvious solution to mnk

[stable forum]

the issue isn't my ability to damage Mo & Krill, the issue is their ability to escape me

[finite patrol]

wins the lane :P

[rich grove]

...yknow, I guess I just hadn't considered that would ever reasonably be a problem

[stable forum]

Burrow is really good at running away

[vivid nimbus]

Sometimes, if the tank runs away you just let them and turn your ire to squishier targets and/or objectives

[stable forum]

.>
my experience is Krill then ults me for ignoring them

[rich grove]

then yeah, slow bullets just because slow bullets good on the hero, slow hex as the t2 spirit for your 4.8k alongside (superior duration? 3.2k active? i don't play the character)

[finite patrol]

does silver even get 4.8k spirit

people are telling me they buy torm and brs

[rich grove]

I really don't know

[stable forum]

not really?? She doesn't care that much about spirit number. She can, I guess, and like duration isn't bad

[merry verge]

/longing glance toward transcendent cooldown

[stable forum]

I think I'll consider toxic or PB over HP as well

HP is really good though

I might also have to stop buying Restorative Locket >.>

Restorative Locket and Counterspell is a bit much.

It's a really cool item, it's just... ehhh...

[rich grove]

resto locket on silver is +100% stamina

[vivid nimbus]

Locket feels to me like a cool item design with bad stats

[stable forum]

yeah this is about right

no krill this game

[vivid nimbus]

Esp. b/c you also need to charge it to get the stam now

[earnest verge]

well, it's literally Magic Wand, and Magic Wand is pretty lane-meta defining in Dota

[stable forum]

it's unfortunately not very good??

magic wand notably gives a lot of stat

[earnest verge]

yeah

was talking about the design and reinforcing what Tech said

compared to the Dota item, it gives less stats and costs more, in relative terms

[vivid nimbus]

And also 1200 range in Dota I think is comparatively more than 30m range in Deadlock?

[rich grove]

pipe gang smoke em if you got em

[vivid nimbus]

Oh yeah 1200 range is huge

While 30m range is less than the lane guardian's attack range

[finite patrol]

magic wand in doter is like 500 gold right?

[vivid nimbus]

460 currently

[finite patrol]

so you can start with it?

[bleak thicket]

magic stick is 200
iron branches are 55 (you need 2)
recipe is 150

you could start magic wand

but you usually just go magic stick + 2 iron branches
and buy more stuff with the 150

[finite patrol]

ah right but you start with stick branches and consumables

[bleak thicket]

and buy the recipe later

[finite patrol]

yes i remember now

its been so long...

so you're gaining charges even from 0

maybe resto locket needs to build out of magic rock

[vivid nimbus]

Gonna do some math to figure out roughly how many stacks you need per minute to average to just an extra regen in health gained

... About 8 stacks/minute when you're in single-digit boons?

[finite patrol]

thats pretty blehg

[vivid nimbus]

9/min when you're at 0 boons, 8/min when you're at 6 boons, 7/min when you're at 14 boons

To get 180 health per minute

[stable forum]

does counterspell work on venator's ult?

[vivid nimbus]

And 7 stacks/minute also comes to +1 stamina per minute, FWIW

But the extra stam item gives 1.6 more stam/minute if you have the typical 4.5s stamina cooldown

I can see why it was changed, I'm betting stamina-hungry players were just spamming it for 2 stam every 30 seconds and any healing is gravy

[torn gulch]

Elo so low that people don't interact with base mechanics. Anything below ritualist or emissary. People don't run sinners, people don't claim buffs, people don't break boxes

[vivid nimbus]

As someone in that rank bracket, people definitely do those but it's not consistent between players, and also people (including me) have terrible routing for doing so

[torn gulch]

Sometimes I will have matches I will manage to rotate through entire map and get every single sinner lmao but it's probably a waste of time

[vivid nimbus]

All 12 of them? Waow

[ivory reef]

I do want resto locket buffed. it's just not as good in deadlock as it is in dota

[stable forum]

i... thiiink Slowing Bullets is bad.

at the very least you can't buy both it and PB

idk

it's really hard to hit with Lycan Claws!

like I have a lot of trouble just staying on top of people. I think it's a me issue somehow? idk for sure.

I'm noticing I get into like 10-20 second fights and only get 15 lycan claws hits.

[vivid nimbus]

How would you rate your general movement skills?

[stable forum]

I play lash- I'm fairly good at moving and okay at aiming.

at least I'm fairly good at moving around the map.

chasing players I'm okay at? I do the dash jumps, etcetera.

I think I need to try movespeed instead of stam

[torn gulch]

You get 3ms in ult from your t2 upgrade

[stable forum]

I take that very often

idk, i'll figure something out

stamina feels good but i'm not sure if it actually iiis.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281742836878020722/1469583094838198336/24C60F1.MP4?ex=69882f69&is=6986dde9&hm=d73523bbec4ca63831d2884d6b7e2d41788636ad9fa22d24d47f4ce5506cadc3&

it does allow for this though

'you spooked Silver, she is now Leaving'

[vivid nimbus]

Oh, double stamina items, hah

[autumn field]

does spirit have a stamina item again?

[final osprey]

yes

it only lasts one ability use though, no buffs to items either.
Also has weird stuff where the spirit power for abilities that stick around is only for the first second. So a seven ball gets the ability range and duration, but spirit power for only the first second it's out there.

[autumn field]

yeah that one

[vast sandal]

so like theoretically

what do ya do about getting targeted super hard if you're a support, and the enemy team just wants you to perish

[rich grove]

in general i just start rolling with a teammate if i'm seriously behind

i play hyper-conservatively, i focus on cleaning out jg near base and catching wave as safely as possible, and i watch the minimap like a hawk because if we don't have vision it's generally safe to assume there are going to be 4 on the lane you're in

and you will be caught and butt-slammed

if they're doing this in fights then unfortunately they are just kind of playing the MU correctly; at that point I would consider looking into defensive items like warp stone, armors, etc to buy myself some extra room to breathe

but unfortunately it's kind of the job as support

[vast sandal]

Cool cool, okay, so getting giga targeted and vaporized as a beginner Doorman isnt like

Mega weird then?

[rich grove]

not really, it just happens sometimes especially if you're unfamiliar with macro + your own toolkit to get out of dodge

for doorman specifically getting in the habit of never poking your head somewhere you don't have an exit door is pretty crucial

[vast sandal]

I do be putting the exit door up but

My day be so fine

Then boom

Drifter

[rich grove]

obvs harder earlier when you have less doors and less range also

in that mu you lowkey just gotta hit the cart and pray

[vast sandal]

Mm

[rich grove]

if you can just shove him back depending on whether or not he tags you with his tp thing you're probably fine in the 1v1

if he does it might be ahh ggs

playing around a drifter is def a hard macro check though

[vivid nimbus]

Sometimes if the enemy team wants you dead enough, you just intentionally be the bait and make them die for it

[rich grove]

especially as doorman you can be so effective just ragebaiting people to death

[vivid nimbus]

But there's also some hardcore suvivability options like metal skin

Does this mean you're doing less supporting? Yes but you also can't do support if you're dead

[vast sandal]

so just gotta cultivate the Bugs Bunny mindset

[edgy fog]

I have attempted to make my own build for Venator that is more about headshots

Cause I feel like I'm doing more with headshots than trying to get in super close

[late hare]

grr

frustrated that my PC just barely can't handle this game

I can hold my own okayish in laning phase, sometimes do pretty well even

but the second we break into big teamfights I tend to start sandbagging because that drops me into single digit frames per second

[edgy fog]

So silly question but HOW do you get souls? It's just weird to me that I was in a bot game just now and I'm not sure how I just had a ton more souls than my allies. Is it because they kept ganging up in the same lane while I was pushing side lanes?

[vivid nimbus]

Kills, objectives, minions, sinner sacrifices, boxes

[final osprey]

That's part of it, souls begin getting gained very inefficiently with 3 or more players in the same area

[vivid nimbus]

Pushing lanes is pretty profitable, especially if you get a tower out of it

[stable forum]

it's 4 or more now

3 is fine now i believe.

it's less efficient than 2 but not terrible.

2 is 120%? total soul gain, 3 is 90%? I don't remember exactly.

unless they went back on that recently?

[final osprey]

3 is 108%, I was wrong about it.
But 3 people on the same kill is when you start getting inefficient. Which effects ganks in the laning phase quite a bit I think?

[vivid nimbus]

Huh, 2 and 3 players both get 108% from troopers before the split, 6 gets 96%, and every other number gets 100%

[stable forum]

huh

[vivid nimbus]

And that 6-way distribution is assuming that it's exactly 16.0% and it's not a dropped decimal from 16.66 or w/e

[autumn field]

it's almost tempting to say you can save your ult for things like this

[stable forum]

you can

[autumn field]

usually when i doorman (im kinda bad) i save it for kill confirms and escapes

like, billy is at 20%?

[edgy fog]

Although it's only bots, I have been doing my best to never back down. The bots just keep throwing more and more people into my lane and with a Paige at my back... We did not step back.

[autumn field]

ENJOY YOUR STAY AT THE BARONESS, YOU DIPSHIT FAKE-ASS ANARCHIST, WHO FUNDS THE GOVERNMENT WITH YOUR OWN FLESH AND BLOOD

(doorman feels like the type to call billy out for paying taxes)

[edgy fog]

He calls billy boring

he's like "Oh you're angry? That's all you are. You don't even know shit. You're just angry."

[autumn field]

lmao

also, graves is hilarious with this build

[edgy fog]

ah the big slurp

Have you put ricochet on that?

[autumn field]

this was street brawl

[edgy fog]

ahhh

[autumn field]

also the 4.8k

[vivid nimbus]

Oh, Doorman roasts Billy even worse than that when he ults

[autumn field]

i assume they mean the stat bonus doubling?

[autumn field]

oh thats hilarious

i once played a match where i spent the whole game refreshing my ult on ONLY billy

and every time

i would go "How was your stay, Billy? Enjoy the mimiso- ah, I see, enjoying your eternal rest at the Baroness"

[edgy fog]

How do I increase the size of the boxes?

I figured it out, you can drag it

[vivid nimbus]

Okay good I was internally like "can you not drag it?" and I was afraid of looking like an asshole if I said that and you couldn't

[edgy fog]

I was expecting the cursor to change slightly

But yeah you've just got to get it in the right place

[merry verge]

So how do you fight Kelvin without it being an awful chore

[stable forum]

hit him with knockdown, then shoot out the ice path from under him.

if he pushes 4 it's still a chore, but like, he pushed 4. So you got his ult. And he might still die anyways!

Alternatively burst him to death when he inevitably overextends as kelvins do.

Spirit Burn can help (-70% healing!) but I think they like to buy cleanses

[merry verge]

They tend to be too self heal and tanky for burst, the Fun Beam is more a problem than ice path

[stable forum]

...yeah, ice beam is sorta spread out & take cover when needed

you can just raw challenge it if you're a gun carry with good firerate though

[merry verge]

I tend not to play those v-v

Does silence count? Or is it a disarm thing

Either way wugh

[stable forum]

neither breaks channels

Knockdown is the only thing that would

[merry verge]

Absolute Bummer

[stable forum]

if you're GT you can uhh

[merry verge]

Remove ability from game

[stable forum]

just shoot him though?? Like with Charged Shot? Ice Beam doesn't actually trade super favorably with Charged Shot, I think?

or similar abilities

yeah, biggest thing is probably just cover

[merry verge]

That's so annoying

I truly think the beam is bad design lmao

At least Graves autotarget has short range

Maybe Seven is right maybe this guy is the real evil

[stable forum]

ehhh

Kelvins isn't actually autotarget though it is a hitscan continuous fire laser thingy

beam is very similar to like
Vindicta goes up and now being within her line of sight is Very Bad

[merry verge]

Vindicta moves half a meter per minute in flight

And implodes if you catch her

Kelvin does this same stuff on the ground

Also just been seeing a lot less of her since the ult change, maybe they're Venators now :Tc

[vivid nimbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvvBqCcZ9wc

This was a cool vid, a high-rank guy who does coaching/critiquing critiquing one of his own games

Including pointing out the big mistakes he makes despite having 4000 (!) hours

I do really like the part at 40:30 where ||he's like "I don't need to kill MnK again, I need to go find and kill Venator"||

[merry verge]

Yamato's new light melee feels disdainful somehow

Also do love how little disarm hits her usual gameplan

[merry verge]

Solid vid though, i need to get better at the Urn Plays, my midgame is a damn mess

[ivory reef]

If you end up in a 1v1 with a fed drifter you've already made prior errors before that point

That's an important lesson from Dota. It's a bit like StarCraft. Sometimes the fight is lost in the scouting and macro stages well before the actual fight itself

Don't end up in 1v1s with enemy hunters

Also for the drifter you need to understand how his mark works

Purge it or just make sure he can't use it without dying

He can teleport behind you bleach style at global range

If he marks you your door will not save you

[torn gulch]

Pretty sure you can just smack him melee and he can't parry but I might be wrong because I haven't encountered a kelvin who knows what a parry button is.

[frail jasper]

If you're particularly aware of scouting and macro, you can do clever baiting to keep them running around ineffectively. To paraphrase from Funke's video, "you can just pretend to do shit. You can walk forward alone, kill one trooper, and immediately leave. Then some Drifter jumps out and is like what the fuck, where's my meal?"

[lavish grove]

I think Venator ult has become the scariest one to hear in the game now tbh

I hear him praying and immediately start running for cover

[merry verge]

This would track, can't parry while channeling Power Slash

also love how antitank Silver can feel

[frail jasper]

Her 1 is real good for that. Something like 24% max hp as damage if you hit all 3 slam fire shots

[merry verge]

And nigh-instant Toxic application

Hunter's Aura, Wolf Pounce Shred...

[frail jasper]

Then you wolf out and bite them for %missing hp

[merry verge]

both types of % damage is fun

[frail jasper]

Hunters aura is very good if you're consistently finding them isolated

[merry verge]

What's the 'range' on isolation anyhow

[frail jasper]

Sometimes teams huddle like penguins tho

[frail jasper]

15m I think

[merry verge]

oh my gahd

that's shorter than drifter needs

love you Hunter's Aura

[frail jasper]

Citation needed

[merry verge]

just checked and correct

that's like 'you can kick them out of position' kind of range

Disarming Hex should work on Venator Ult, yeah? Counts as shooting and all

[frail jasper]

I would think so
(Citation needed)

[merry verge]

Google has offered no answers v-v

[bleak thicket]

should be easy to test (with a friend)

[frail jasper]

You can test without a friend by using the sandbox and puppet option

[merry verge]

the new rank system might be a little uh

befuckled

[edgy fog]

This is why I love popping into Lane with Rem, dropping helpers on the minions, then running off. Then I push hard with someone else in another lane and make the enemy focus on us. This is good for pushing a walker.

[frail jasper]

I love rem split pushing

[edgy fog]

Yeaaaah

[merry verge]

That's easily the worst thing about Silver

Pushing out waves is aaaaaaa

Venator grenades lategame are so satisfying to pop them with

[frail jasper]

Rem is my new primary so I gotta love him.

[edgy fog]

I am a problem and I will continue to be a problem until you deal with me.

[lavish grove]

Genuinely I just heavy melee until all the minions are dead

It’s not good

[merry verge]

It's like her best AOE

[lavish grove]

But it’s better then anything else she does

[merry verge]

i do build the melee items which helps

[lavish grove]

The fucked up part is that she is genuinely good at killing towers

Her 1 does insane tower damage

But she just can’t clear minions well

[merry verge]

at least she can functionally take souls now

[frail jasper]

I need to study how to best use the vents, I often just don't bother because I'm too busy stealing vaults/boxes/camps from the enemy half of the map

Perhaps more importantly I need to codify and practice lane manipulation timings because while I do push lanes I'm usually not thinking about it at a higher level

[edgy fog]

I do think the sewer has some good amount of souls in boxes but is it better than just straight stealing...

[merry verge]

Sewer boxes go crazy

And you can just run right through

Do helpers need LoS?

[frail jasper]

To apply them to allies, troopers, and boxes? Yes. To send them to a shop for you? No, just range.

[merry verge]

Ohh okay, thank god, was wondering if he could just steal from the sewers too

[frail jasper]

It's definitely untapped free souls, but I'm a big thinker of "i should be denying the enemy nice things" so THEIR BOXES and neutral stuff should come first. A lot of this does come from me almost always solo queueing at like a Ritualist level so I often can't expect my own team to be doing that kind of macro farming (so I gotta do it if I want to see it done)

Simultaneously the enemies I go against don't ever really stop me from doing it either

[agile void]

https://youtube.com/shorts/wzuhIwoSpm8

[magic summit]

It's one of the abilities that that cam be canceled by pressing parry

But you can also just press cancel and then parry

But I am learning there are a lot of cancelable things in this game people dont realize you can cut short

Like Yamato grapple

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1qxz3xq/based_on_true_events/

[granite heath]

you could just hit 3 double-collaterals instead, the bolt pierces

[lavish grove]

Psalm 24:31

“And the lord said, Venator, buy sharpshooter and wipe the enemy team, and it was good”

[frail jasper]

People still don't know you can cancel out of the viscous cube if you really don't want to be in it

[agile void]

Me pressing parry as I see an enemy punching viscous cube

[torn gulch]

I see

[frail jasper]

Cube parries are great, IDK why people think they can do heavy melee on it

But always cancel into the parry

[vivid nimbus]

I found out recently you can also cancel out of a friendly Bebop hook

[frail jasper]

Speaking of bebop hook, if you cast divine barrier on someone as they're being hooked it just drops them instantly

[merry verge]

tbf usual friendly bebop hooks are by accident and Terribly Surprising

clutch ones are so fun tho

[lavish grove]

Chat, when Sinclair grabs an ult that doesn’t scale with spirit, does he make it scale with spirit?

Like Venator ult

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah no one is ever expecting the accidental friendly hook, which does not exactly give them time to react

[frail jasper]

No

So don't bother stealing the Haze ult because it's unlikely Sinclair has the weapon damage to make it do anything

[lavish grove]

Damn

[frail jasper]

I wonder how his 2 works with silver werewolf though

[severe loom]

I think it gives them the transform with the 3 transformed abilities replacing their usual ones

(also, they, because they're literally two people in one body)

[frail jasper]

No I mean

If he puts down his 2 (the assistant which shoots spirit damage bullets) and then wolfs out, does it keep firing spirit damage bullets along with the increasing ROF from him holding M1 on someone

Cuz while he won't have good weapon damage scaling for the wolf abilities, they are still good without that (%hp damage, area disarm, etc) and if the assistant is also there firing off bullets like a machine gun then he doesn't really need the weapon damage

[merry verge]

Rem buffs were reactionary and I shallst stand by this

[hallow zenith]

It looks like "Yes" from my experimenting in Sandbox

[lavish grove]

Chat, what do you call the deadlock characters?

Like, Champions in League and Heroes in DOTA

[rich grove]

in game the terminology is heroes

any rulestext uses hero as the template word for someone a player is piloting

"half effectiveness on non hero" etc

[lavish grove]

Ah yah

[merry verge]

horgh, fourth leaver game in a row

[lavish grove]

That sucks

[merry verge]

couple right off the bat clearly 'didn't get Venator/Silver'

[edgy fog]

How do you treat Venator's grenade? An opener? Something to catch people running away? Fire whenever it comes up?

[frail jasper]

It could honestly be all of those, but I'd probably open with it whenever possible and try to get as many enemies at once whenever possible

[lavish grove]

Little bit of everything tbh

[frail jasper]

It's a big middle finger to high healing types like Abrams and Kelvin

[lavish grove]

It takes barely any time to shoot so during fights I pretty much use it on cooldown

It’s just something you press for extra damage and stopping healing while shooting people

[vast sandal]

I am learning things

like that if Bebop is just cranking out Hyper Beams on your team, go buy a Cursed Relic and delete his (non)human rights

[bleak thicket]

knockdown works too!

[vast sandal]

oh sweet

[lavish shale]

knockdown very useful in general for flyers or big channeled ults on enemies

[rich grove]

knockdown is generally the most efficient solution to long channeled ults like beam or seven storm

also yeah vindicta/talon/lash because knockdown's stun is way worse if you're airborne when it goes off

scales with your height

[vast sandal]

I'm seeing that there are no wards in this game, so map control / vision is just a matter of coordination?

[frail jasper]

Beware, if these enemies are smart they will buy Dispel Magic and just remove the knockdown.

[frail jasper]

Line of sight from heroes on your team and troopers, otherwise there is only like two or three exceptions

• people carrying the soul urn are always visible on the map
• Graves' tombstone ultimate and associated ghouls
• idk for sure but maybe Rem's buffed troopers? This might just be a teammates-only thing (I hope so, enemies don't need to know that I'm secretly shoving the wave)

[rich grove]

remember when calico cat was a ward that was also an invisible turret

[frail jasper]

Oh yeah calico cat doesn't appear on minimap so you can run around like a maniac and still jumpscare people

[vivid nimbus]

How fast do jungle icons (camps, sinners) disappear as they're cleared?

[warped ridge]

does anyone have a good lane->jg rotation guide and the timings of camps and what not?

[rich grove]

real time but only when the ENTIRE camp is clear

you can troll enemy team by leaving one guy in the camp at 1hp

[bleak thicket]

same for sinner icons
if its a combo camp with neutrals + sinner
you can do the sinner
leave the neutral
and the icon wont disappear

[rich grove]

yeah that sinner+two t2 creeps one around mid is pretty relevant for this

[merry verge]

Love when a carry doesn't think they'll have to buy dispel magic

what if this big werewolf had two disarms, silly goose

[vivid nimbus]

I need to be better at actually pressing that button

[random urchin]

I'm terrible at using actives well

[merry verge]

I'm great at using them but not sure if it's well

I just like having Tools and Buttons

also turning off Vyper's entire kit

Bola Toss, Disarming Hex

Also means even more Resist Shred

[rich grove]

also highly recommend hunters aura in this vein for the gun carry v gun carry matchup

[merry verge]

I always get it on Silver now

it's so delightful for her burst

Must make the Lifestrike as big as possible

[agile void]

https://youtu.be/Jb7TnRJ_yoM

[frail jasper]

IDK what this video says but I'm gonna guess it's about being super aggressive and annoying instead of passive

[agile void]

pretty much

you rush them down or are like victor

your area denial is forcing people to back off

also he talks about tomb positioning being highground which makes sense

then he shows these

[frail jasper]

What you do is get into a fight and tickle them with your laser hand, and as soon as you see the fear in them and they try to leave? You throw a pickle jar at their head.

[agile void]

and im like

"How the fuck you got the tomb up there?!"

[vivid nimbus]

Yeah those sorts of tombs are so annoying to clear

[frail jasper]

Yeah putting the tombstone in space is a good idea

[vivid nimbus]

Oh some of the spots you can just aim up

Tombstone has a bit of range on it, it doesn't have to go at your feet

[frail jasper]

Anyway yeah you get stuff like toxic bullets and slowing bullets and spirit leech and just be super annoying constantly harassing people, then when they try to disengage you murder them

[merry verge]

I feel like placing it On The Building That Kills You isn't going to stick around

[vivid nimbus]

A few spots you will need to get up there yourself, but it's not that hard if you're hopping off the zip

[agile void]

also this comment made me double check

who the fuck kara cancels? yamato technically?

[vivid nimbus]

Oh I was guessing using it to refer to heavy melee cancelling

[frail jasper]

HMC is a devious trick that is no longer meta and I've never seen done against me, but it's still valid trickery to do

[agile void]

tbh that mechanic is like barely used ever since they got rid of the momentum on it

still good to bait parries but yeah

[frail jasper]

Now it's just for the parry fakeout bait yeah

Metaphorically breaking their ankles with the juke

[vivid nimbus]

I can't see "HMC" in a convo about FGC speak without thinking Heavy Mob Cemetary

[agile void]

isnt that just Abrams ult?

so far we dont have an ult that is a true combo or just "If you are in this spot you are nuked"

lash I guess

[vivid nimbus]

Also damn someone went "bet you can't name 100 items" at DeathlyDL and he went "bet" and created a notepad doc and is halfway done

And doing it by price, he just started the 3200s

[agile void]

half of the community probably didnt buy a 50% of the item shop, and that is a generous number

[frail jasper]

At Deathy of all people, a professional coach for the game

[agile void]

like the store is 130ish/140 items

[merry verge]

anyone that still calls it Superior Stamina i assume knows every item by image alone

[vivid nimbus]

I mean, if you gave me all the pictures I bet I could name 100 of them, and I'm in double-digit hours

[agile void]

fuck

what was the orb thingy

[vivid nimbus]

He got to 56 before the queue popped, just on 800s, 1600s, and orange 3200s

[agile void]

Ammo Scavenger

real ones remember that item

and Soul rebirth

[vivid nimbus]

But can you name the other three removed items?

[warped ridge]

Slork

[autumn field]

how is abrams meant to be played?

[frail jasper]

Burgerbox

• be hard to kill
• punch the shit out of everyone
• play around veils
• charge stun into melee
• contest midboss rejuvenator with your ult

Sometimes you can just play Shrek Abrams and build lots of green to be unkillable and just lock down an entire lane like a wall

[merry verge]

Tanky Initiator with shockingly painful gun

But mostly Stuns Man the Man who Stuns You

[granite heath]

I found out the unfortunate way recently that Counterspell does not block the wall slam :(

[mild flume]

leave the one guy at full

[rich grove]

well at least do damage to it so you get the soul split

[mild flume]

o yea

[edgy fog]

I had to go to work but I want to mention as well that Venetor's traps are OK wards as they reveal anyone they trap. So it let's your whole team see.

[warm sonnet]

Yeah, I hear that they're just worse Grey Talon traps, but I find them to be far more of a problem just because there's more of them and they're less noticeable

[rich grove]

individually they're a lot worse and their placement is way finickier, but them being charged and generally spammable is the clear tradeoff

[edgy fog]

I like putting them on the stairs.

Or booting them at the wall to try and catch a chaser

[rich grove]

maybe the most unfortunate confluence of terms

[autumn field]

eternal gift is too fucking op lmao

it should never be allowed to exist in a regular game

[lavish shale]

is that one of the street brawl items?

[tame jay]

Yes

[tame jay]

https://tenor.com/view/damage-thats-a-lot-of-damage-jon-tron-gif-13054497

[mild flume]

how did that game go that long

[autumn field]

it was a bot match with eternal gift

and i didnt really do much but farm cuz funny

[finite patrol]

well you can't really farm in street brawl

you were cultivating

[autumn field]

You don’t get orbs in street brawl

[astral lava]

farm (goalless)

[finite patrol]

pretty sure that is one of the endless torments

[autumn field]

Lmao it’s a custom match

[finite patrol]

oh you were playing regular but with street brawl items?

[autumn field]

Mmm

[mild flume]

ah yeah

I see

[lavish grove]

Playing shiv, this guy is fun

I’m gonna add him to my normal list of heroes

[merry verge]

I tried to do Shiv for a while but he never clicked

Now Yamato is my raidboss spirit bruiser and she's good fun

[lavish grove]

I’ve kinda come to understand him as sorta just, a weird annoying mobility tank

And I quite enjoy being annoying

[merry verge]

Also love how half the lines are just 'damn, you're handsome'

[still swan]

Having a lot of fun with Seven

Honestly playing with other players is a lot less bad than I expected

Ive never played a Moba before

[lavish grove]

I run around dashing into people, throwing knives, watching them slowly die and executing them if they dare try and make a comeback from low health

[merry verge]

The gameplay in this one being fun helps

[lavish grove]

I’m like a constant nuisance

[merry verge]

Even at your lowest.. there is schmovement

I can't believe these are knives after repeated nerfs

They still hort

[merry verge]

For me this is max cdr Doorman

Never really most kills but involved in 75% of them

You will get belled

And with Cheat Death watching them unload four ults to just skedaddle through a door is just.. videogames

Oh nice, Silver not gaining ult charge from Barriers was bugfixed

[rich grove]

coreman is so much fun

[merry verge]

One day people will stop getting baited into tower but not anytime soon, seems like

[lavish grove]

Oh hell yah

I thought that was intentional

[hallow zenith]

Silver feels

very strong

[lavish grove]

She is!

She should be stronger

3 stamina silver

[hallow zenith]

How do you even deal with her

She seems to just ignore... literally anything me or my team tries to do

[lavish grove]

Kill her before she transforms ideally

After she transforms… run

She’s the strongest character in a melee brawl in wolf form

[hallow zenith]

How do you outrun someone who moves at double your movement speed

[lavish grove]

CC if you’ve got it

If you don’t, buy some CC items

Or magic carpet

[warm sonnet]

CC, Healing reduction, shmovementary abilities

[hallow zenith]

None of those seem to work she just ignores them all

[warm sonnet]

Then I fear

It may be a skill issue

[hallow zenith]

ok

[warm sonnet]

Though, she benefits greatly from her big healing in dogmode, so hitting her with two or more sources of healing reduction does a lot

As someone that plays her a lot but badly, you got to mitigate her human damage to stop dogmode

[autumn field]

hey, mvp

[twilit roost]

How it to land the heavy melee cancel

[autumn field]

from my experience a good silver is painful, but there's a lot of counters to her

[lavish grove]

Yah, knockdown, slowing bullets, mystic slow, arctic blast can all slow her down

Also movement items like warp stone and magic carpet

[autumn field]

i should play a standard match w/ doorman

he's so fucking FUN

[vast sandal]

feeling like I'm just kind of a garbage player

I tried to do all the smart stuff and monitor the enemy team and play carefully and build to stay alive and so on and so forth and I still died 15 times and lost

[merry verge]

That happens in the highest ranks

[warm sonnet]

I think that's a bad way to look at things, and I share that sentiment exactly.

[merry verge]

It's just kind of a moba thing also this one has a lot going on

[raven spindle]

deadlock is a very tough game with a lot of moving parts, and even the best players can get caught in a losing streak-

[warm sonnet]

Most of the time, you may do the right thing, but if the enemy team plays better as a team individual skill can only go so far

[vast sandal]

nah I bottom scored super hard and dragged my team down

[warm sonnet]

Well, we're not working with a lot of information. Did focus on pushing lanes or taking fights?

[vast sandal]

I was playing Haze and trying to do my job of picking out backliners and blowing them up, tried to make it work in lane and couldn't secure kills much and then we just got trounced by this super fed Mo and Krill and they just jumped on me over and over wherever I tried to flank from

[merry verge]

Oh that's partly that that's kind of.. Mo's whole job, that's not on you

Everyone has been jumped by the boys

Anticarry squadron

also matchmaking is still a little.. fiddly

[warm sonnet]

Yup

And if you're taking fights but not winning them, you're losing out on money

[autumn field]

recently ive only played street brawl

i feel like im getting better at micro

ive also noticed that my favorite style of play always includes heavy melee

I’m not sure if lufestrike is “good” on doorman

[vast sandal]

alright I used my brain more

but also less

Seven is so much easier to cook with than Haze lmao

[rich grove]

despite being advertised as a newb friendly character haze is genuinely kind of difficult to play well

seven also has explod-itis but he has a much easier time jungling, you don't get noob-trapped by his ult and between his giant balls + power surge he has a lot of straightforward ways to get value without having to be in the mix himself

[vast sandal]

yeah his kit is just

WAY better at sitting back and beating down on the enemy

[rich grove]

his mechanical requirements are also just way less intense

[vast sandal]

you throw-a the orb

and you attach the stun

👍

[rich grove]

i get genuine shakes after a while playing haze because your life is just that one fucking gif of the guy bass boost-mashing his keyboard and sweating furiously

[vast sandal]

with seven you just put your balls on em

ez

[rich grove]

shadow wizard money gang

[vast sandal]

we LOVE casting spells

[rich grove]

you obviously get way more value out of the character if you can aim with 3 but balls are back in the meta

[vast sandal]

also Seven has the brain off kill-securer

[rich grove]

and they are the radius of the entire doorway to base

it's faster to ult than reload :v)

[vast sandal]

I love having Smite on a 30sec cooldown

you just stick the fucking stun to them like it's APR from HxH

and then you go "enjoy :)"

[rich grove]

timing 1 just so that it makes contact as the stun goes off is so painful

huge free damage

you ever cooked half a team in the air fryer

[vast sandal]

tbh I'm thinking that the less brainpower I need to devote to the hero's kit rn the better while I learn the everything-else

[rich grove]

probably fair

[vast sandal]

seven got tha macrowave on his belt

https://tenor.com/pYL9AHRML8w.gif

the registered God Particle

[rich grove]

you're also gonna learn real quick when you should jg and when you should be fighting with the team

[vast sandal]

he sure has a damage ability the size of an entire jg camp

fucking lmao

[rich grove]

yeh

very efficient, very nice

recharging rush / ballistic enhancement is also so so good for this hero's early/mid item theory

[vast sandal]

I was playing with a friend who was like "what are you doing we're pushing the lane" and I was like

"I'm getting a snack hold on"

[rich grove]

there's at least one high-level player who literally buys melee charge on this hero just because it procs recharging rush

while you're doing jg

[vast sandal]

just to get additional balls?

[rich grove]

yeah cause it makes your melee do just enough to get the extra charge up

one of the most boof item decisions i've ever seen

[vast sandal]

building gun on the shadow wizard sounds goofy

but ig you're building "gun" so you have even more shadow wizard spells

[rich grove]

yeah you don't really invest much in weapon beyond that

the rest is just making your balls / your surge more damagier and betterer

[vast sandal]

you have orb anyways so like

[rich grove]

and/or not fucking dying

also quite important on this hero

[vast sandal]

not perishing?

[rich grove]

yeah you don't strictly have an escape

[plain furnace]

I want to main Paige, and McGinnis
I like their kits, the versatility
What are good advices for these characters ?

[mild flume]

I stopped picking tinker because it made my hands hurt

[finite patrol]

mcginnis is best built as a gun hero and you kind of ignore her ult and turrets. Paige is an excellent support hero. they both have terrible base movement so make sure youre buying items like extra stamina, dashes, mastery, enduring speed, and fleet foot (which you buy depends on character and other priorities) to make up for this

You can probably do turret mcginnis at lower level play but it falls off as players get better at dealing with them

[rich grove]

iirc ginnis and paige have two stam specifically so you really should be buying at least one extra stam

whether that's in the form of arcane surge, kdash or just flat-out stam mastery

[plain furnace]

Hmmm, I see

[merry verge]

Wall placement is the most important McGinnis skill imo

[finite patrol]

extra stamina should be an item you buy with your first 4000 souls to be sure

[merry verge]

You can change a fight tremendously

[rich grove]

that includes griefing hellaciously

[merry verge]

Kelvin, Ginnis, Bebop.. who else can Whoops their teammate..

[plain furnace]

Ivy ?

[merry verge]

You can jump outta hers

[somber creek]

Lash

[merry verge]

Also do love how two supports have terribly powerful machine guns

[somber creek]

Vyper

[finite patrol]

venator

[finite patrol]

mcginnis not reaaaally a support at least rn

paradox swap

[rich grove]

paradox swap doesn't strictly grief a teammate so much as ruin a kill, but if it counts then doorman should count the most

you can boof doorboy ult so fucking bad

[finite patrol]

yeah true

[rich grove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/564576454793232394/1469862882161201294/image.png?ex=698933fb&is=6987e27b&hm=5f18a08580ef1d714a127132bd26afdc4e8d48ac61746be398c61375cc8aefa8&

[agile void]

Wasnt the show specifically about the girls she didnt get?

[rich grove]

yes, that is the point of the patron's appeal written in the post

[agile void]

Iirc, there was that volcano scene where Johnny was thrown

then the volcano spat him out because he wasnt a virgin

so he scored, it just wasnt interesting to see the ones he managed to score, and I think it was confirmed by the showrunner that detail

[somber creek]

Ya

[autumn field]

This dude would probably have his eye on Vyper first, of all the people fighting

[finite patrol]

I would believe that Johnny Bravo loves the sexy slither of a lady snake

[rich grove]

jesus christ eido pronouncing sajam's name as sage-em

I'm going to have an allergy

[bleak thicket]

say jam

[still swan]

I like Seven

[autumn field]

I KNOW he’d be into Vyper for a fact

[finite patrol]

okay

[upbeat perch]

as in sah gay em?

[rich grove]

it's like say-geum

sajam has become... korean????

[dusky flume]

What kind of jam flavor is "say", anyhow?

[vast sandal]

a different one than Life Jam, which as we all know makes you the Gold Burst bandit

[rich grove]

Jam the Toad

[vast sandal]

https://youtu.be/KqqoatVycm8

[rich grove]

i cannot believe this chungus fucking burst gave you back 50% if you got it on launch

[vast sandal]

Gold Burst was built wrong in Strive 1.0

[rich grove]

the desperation in his voice at COME ON, MAN

[vast sandal]

Life Jam has been doing this shit for ages

[finite patrol]

lmao Graves can't shoot venator snares

[rich grove]

...you can shoot venator snares?

i just kind of assumed they worked like talon traps and they just said fuck you, i'm an aoe now

[lavish shale]

You can shoot them to disarm them yeah

[rich grove]

what the FUCK

this is illegal

[finite patrol]

for Graves it is

[quaint kernel]

Deadlock is hella hard.

How much impact can a single player realistically have on a match?

[rich grove]

"it depends"

carry can actually reasonably win the 1v11 games you get sometimes but support vs no support in team comps is sometimes loss at draft screen

[vast sandal]

Honestly it kinda feels like the smallest unit of team that can severely effect the course of a match is 2 because one lane that’s just knocking it out of the park in the laning phase coordination-wise is a massive asset for the entire team

[quaint kernel]

Gotcha

I guess also, not to be toxic, but how much can dead weight really carry you down too?

[finite patrol]

if you get really ahead on certain heroes you can kinda just run shit too

[vast sandal]

Less than you’d think

If they’re your lane partner: oof

If they’re just somewhere else doing their own thing: worst case scenario, they’re not keeping the souls count even for their lane and that might suck later or it might mean nothing

I’m pretty new though so there’s wrinkles I probably don’t understand

[rich grove]

I mean if someone goes 0/12 yeah

MM is so uneven that it is likely both sides have someone who shouldn't be in the match

[vast sandal]

This game should have Nature’s Prophet in it I think it would be funny to have a guy whose KDA has nothing to do with the value they’re putting on the board because they’re just raking souls in

[quaint kernel]

Yeah MM has been a bit weird for me but not trying to be toxic so not gonna complain more than that tho on the MMR.

It's one of those things where I'm trying to gauge how much "labbing" I should really be doing in order to get good at some of the stuff like denying in the game

[lavish shale]

I think that's Rem actually

[vast sandal]

Rem really steals Sinner’s?

No dignity.

[quaint kernel]

Yeah Rem is cool like that

This game is deffo getting me into the whole MOBA thing but I am so bad at parsing the map and stuff

[vivid nimbus]

It's a bit harder to read the map than other MOBAs because it's a real 3D environment and the map doesn't show that

[rich grove]

please tell me you're not actually bragging about acting like this in real matches

[autumn field]

no everyone fucking left

ez because there's literally nobody

[rich grove]

god

[autumn field]

they left like, 2 minutes in

[rich grove]

urgh

[autumn field]

and then others left like, 25 minutes in?

doorman left first, then left, then joined back, i think everyone else just went poof

[agile void]

I always wonder why those situations happens

[autumn field]

i figured if nobody is there to listen there's no toxicity

[agile void]

at least its not those times like

We start the match

[autumn field]

but like, seriously, it was silent except for shiv saying "wow cool game"

[agile void]

10 minutes have passed

shiv is 0/8

They rq/leave

[merry verge]

Some folks instantly leave if they don't get New Character

The multiplayer classic

[autumn field]

lmao

[quaint kernel]

Venator is so john gunman too so he's just going to be mega popular for a bit

[somber creek]

Venator is gonna bring the frag montage guys out yeah

[quaint kernel]

My pet peeve with Venator is that his Grenade doesn't have physics. Let us lob that thing

[somber creek]

?

It does

it even bounces since it has an arm time

[severe loom]

yeah it very much has physics, it has more physics than basically every ability in the game

[finite patrol]

this grenade is full of physics

[quaint kernel]

Oh I didn't know that

[rich grove]

it is very funny that hopoo is publicly on the dev team and there are some abilities in the new cast that are extremely squints compared to ror2 abilities

[finite patrol]

I love playing and playing against venator

[quaint kernel]

I tested it once and it just kinda blew up immediately on my cursor

[finite patrol]

I think they did him really well

[merry verge]

Grenade bankshots are the most fun part of his kit

[rich grove]

venator 4 flies like commando nade, rem 2 is the heretic utility skill

[vivid nimbus]

Wolf-Silver and Acrid, Vyper and Lemurians

[merry verge]

I see folks calling WolfSilver Acrid an I kinda see it yeah

[lavish shale]

it just bounces once

[ivory reef]

I know what you mean and from my perspective: I find dota and deadlock to both be very, very, very deep games. Games that let me just work on myself even if my team is a bit stochastic

look at any leif movement video and you'll see what I mean

also to answer your questions about how much can 1 person reasonably do and how much you can be brought down, I think the best framework to use is that bluntly in a good balanced game you are 10% of that game. everyone is carrying their weight.

maybe there are mobas where supports do less than carries or whatever but that's really not the case in dota at least and I suspect not in deadlock either. like you really need to work together.

I'd also strongly recommend squadding up

and yes it's even harder in deadlock

but that is honestly the most correct way to play the game

the game is like, designed for highly coordinated squad play

even a 2 stack or 4 stack will give you so much more control over the game and let you access so many more layers to play and counterplay you didn't have before

and nowadays I assemble full 6 stacks

[ivory reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfMNLQ0TrUg lab these

if you can't deliver an urn in under 30 seconds you have stuff to lab

off a single dash jump, you can get upto 6 additional slide hops

I can barely do 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS_9tJSV4AQ