Deadlock

[twilit roost]

Only hit headshots

[ivory reef]

it is not hard to headshot people in this game

[bleak thicket]

does the gun damage include crit damage

or is gun and gun crit two separate things

[ivory reef]

if you want to find an aimbot you need their perspective and you need an experienced person to evaluate it

do not asmongold people

[agile void]

The replay is not up yet

[maiden ledge]

I've seen people make crazy headshot builds and whip em out like a western...it really sucks to play against

[bleak thicket]

yeah being good at aiming is an entire science

[maiden ledge]

and.... heh.... i... am not a scientist

[ivory reef]

like, let's ground this for a moment here.

• jaacker lost a game to some shiv
• they called them a bitch in allchat
• they then came to pnet to publically complain about the guy. they "couldn't help" call him a bitch.
• they are now staring at numbers wondering if he's cheating. or wondering if someone else is cheating. I dont' even know.

this is just toxic

even if they are cheating, this is not a headspace you want to invest your emotional energy into

[agile void]

ok I wont talk anymore then

[ivory reef]

back in dota my friend group would do this Thing where every time a game ended they would check the enemy team's games played for smurfs and loudly complained about them

yeah, honestly: if this is how you're going to publically socialize and engage with pnet about a competitive game just don't

[twilit roost]

You can also just report them if you think theyre aimbotting, can't really do more than that

[ivory reef]

yeah report and move on

emphasis on move on

find what you enjoy about a game and emotionally ground yourself in that

even if the enemy team are smurfs you are not gonna improve or have a better time by spending time being sad and mad about it

[agile void]

Winged respectfully, before this day

have you read me being toxic about the game? maybe once or twice

having 2 events does not meant that I will be super pissed

[ivory reef]

dude. you literally admitted you were calling someone a bitch for playing well against you

this, this moment is toxic

[ivory reef]

if you want me to bring it into a public channel: this is not the first time we've had to talk to you as a mod team

[bleak thicket]

ok found what i was looking for

[ivory reef]

hardly

[bleak thicket]

gun damage does not include gun damage crit

meaning that haze hit more regular hits than crits to get the same damage on both

from the same warden later in

[agile void]

fair then

also If I wanted to be really toxic, I would have whined about my team

[ivory reef]

do not

[agile void]

the abrams and billy just fed but I know the feeling, so I didnt

[ivory reef]

"I could've been more toxic" is not the winning strategy you think it is

[agile void]

I know how it feels to be bad in them

[ivory reef]

I don't care how bad you feel, do not take it out on others for playing well

[agile void]

I didnt say shit to them

[ivory reef]

or playing badly

[agile void]

I was just saying that if I wanted to be more toxic, I would have berated my team

I didnt

[ivory reef]

why would you even bring that up

sighs

good for you for not berating your team

very proud of you

[agile void]

I said it as an example. like I said, if It was constantly I understand these warnings

but I just did it today, before I rarely talk about this

[bleak thicket]

big picture, we dont want this kind of talk slowly being normalized here

[agile void]

ok that is way more fair

[ivory reef]

"I only said something horribly toxic once" is not defensible

like, step back and get some perspective here

[agile void]

Fine then, I apologize

[agile void]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1nc6oxf/oh_shit_charger/

So

charge

echo shard

and Refresher?

[runic cedar]

what a match

[agile void]

59 minute match

oooof

[twilit roost]

Thats a nail bitter of a match, only 4k soul diff at the end

[agile void]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKWbPWVa1vs

[merry verge]

I'm not getting involved in the toxicity discussion but "it's easy to land headshots in this game" compared to what exactly this is a movement shooter

[rich grove]

the pro headshot rate seems to be floating around 20% taking a quick skim through the statlocker stats

you can have higher on characters like Pocket, Abrams or Shiv but there might be a reason why the headshot percentage is higher on those heroes specifically

it rhymes with cotbun

[somber creek]

Hot Suns...

[rich grove]

a lot of these people also primarily play casters

for actual gun carries the numbers are waaaaaaaay lower by about 5ish% on both raw and hs accuracy

[somber creek]

Head shots in this game are fucking hard

[rich grove]

zerggy and parzelion are around 63ish% acc, 16ish% headshot on haze

on wraith it's actually worse for both of them it seems like

maybe just as an artifact of how aiming cards works

just a couple bullets sprayed while you're flicking cards instead of the gun itself, might drag down the averages somewhat

for reference I, a certified shitter, have all time accuracy 55%, hs accuracy 10% over 135 haze games

[ivory reef]

Compared to any game where you can start a gunfight at near bvr ranges

Guns don't go very far in deadlock

[agile void]

Actually I think only a few bullets disappear

[autumn field]

Well, except maybe Vindicta

[agile void]

most actually travel all the way

[autumn field]

I think she’s got pretty long range relative to most of the cast

[agile void]

the ones that dont are like drifter and bebop

[ivory reef]

She does yeah but if this were apex legends I'd be shooting the guardian from my other guardian

[agile void]

helps that the guardians have a "you need to be this close to hurt it"

[ivory reef]

Most people even have a zoom on right click

[autumn field]

True lol

[agile void]

before the damage range was below the stairs

[autumn field]

I kinda wish we had more alt fires but eh

[agile void]

imagine how people took advantage of that + infinite ammo on slides

there were times that if you did a full wipe the tower was 100 to 0 in one lane death

[rich grove]

characters do have pretty big bullets, if you load onto mirage in the lab and aim at around a dummy's head you'll notice there's quite a bit of forgiveness on it

but it only partly makes up for how fast people can fly and how many wacky situations you can find yourself in

[agile void]

I wonder if they will be willing to make single action guns

[autumn field]

Paige’s hitbox is HUGE

[agile void]

right now even the shot guns are technically automatic

[rich grove]

they can add a semi auto toggle if that's what people want but forcing people to spam click is stupid and has always been stupid and I'm glad it's not a thing

[autumn field]

I think Vindicta’s ult is the only version of that

[rich grove]

if you want to tap fire slow weapons you just can with the rpm but I just wouldn't play e.g. vindicta if you were expected to hammer the m1

there's also so many random rpm changes that it's just an invitation to destroy your muscle memory

[agile void]

Yeah I mostly meant guns that have low RPM or like, shot every 2 or more seconds

right now I think the closest to that is... Geists gun?

and that is because that thing chunks you for like 40 damage from the start

[ivory reef]

does the game even have a recoil system?

genuine question

it's very easy for me to keep a bead on people

[agile void]

they actually added it

[rich grove]

it's just a very mild upforce

[agile void]

on billy specifically

[ivory reef]

oh huh

[rich grove]

more notable on haze and wraith

[ivory reef]

interesting

[agile void]

billy gun kicks hard

the rest are pretty accurate all things considered

or dont have that much recoil

[rich grove]

outside vyper and yamato m2 everyone else is pinpoint (until you go beyond a fire rate threshold at which point you start getting random deviation)

[agile void]

yeah Haze is the prime example of this

she goes over double her original fire rate her gun gets bloom

[rich grove]

maybe not exactly 0 deviation but close enough that I have never seen anyone talk about it

[agile void]

and its a problem with Haze specifically due to how her gun really craves being able to stack fixation asap

I dont know if that is the same with infernus or other "passive skill" heroes

like mirage and mina

[rich grove]

I suspect it's universal but nobody else is as likely to encounter it

[agile void]

yeah if infernus goes gun he will likely get more spirit stuff because he can actually can get use of spirit items compared to haze

since afterburn scales with spirit

and mirage is more likely to look for damage amps

I remember someone here mentioning that Mirage uses his djinn mark to proc stuff rather than actual damage, like mystic regen

[ivory reef]

oh @primal sphinx you asked ages ago whether deadlock has a gears of war active reload system - it does. on a single item.

[agile void]

active reload

[ivory reef]

https://deadlock.wiki/Active_Reload

[agile void]

gives a little bit of lifesteal

pretty useful on a lot of heroes

[ivory reef]

While reloading, pressing R during the highlighted portion will instantly finish your reload and grant you Fire Rate, Bullet Lifesteal and Move Speed.

[autumn field]

It’s a good item though

Highly recommend

[primal sphinx]

Oh, no, I was asking about tactical reload - if reloading without emptying the magazine is faster than reloading with a fully empty one

[agile void]

Ah, no not really

[primal sphinx]

(Ick, though)

[agile void]

the only one that has that is tecnically abrams

[rich grove]

apex does but I haven't noticed that in deadlock outside of- yeah abrams specfically reloads 1 at a time

[agile void]

and that is because he loads each round in his gun

[primal sphinx]

Oh, yeah, that's different

[agile void]

technically shiv too?

[autumn field]

I wish we had tactical reload

[ivory reef]

ahhh gotcha

[autumn field]

But I know people will reload at exactly 1 bullet remaining because it’s more time efficient

[agile void]

I think I get the way they dont

for example before there was a item called ....

[primal sphinx]

I'm kind of glad they don't

[rich grove]

nah shiv doesn't reload a shell at a time tmk

[agile void]

fuck what was it called that gave you extra bullets if you hit orbs

[rich grove]

ammo scavenger

now that's just baked into the game, technically

[agile void]

THAT

yeah ammo scavenger existed as a way to get back shots

[rich grove]

it did used to give you bullets for LH too

[agile void]

there is also stuff like kinetic dash

active reload

quick silver reload

there is a lot of ways that you can get back ammo

[rich grove]

the dash button,

[agile void]

adding tactical reload would be kind of weird

right now I think there are only..... 2 ways to shorten reloading?

active reload, and its on cooldown

and.....

spellslinger?

[rich grove]

actually on second thought maybe it's not? either that or Haze just suffers so badly from it that her bullet holes literally start forming a circle where Warden's won't at the same boost in fire rate

[agile void]

Passive
While in-combat whenever you cast an ability or item, gain a stacking buff that improves fire rate and reload speed.
Each stack refreshes the duration.
+10% Fire Rate (Conditional)
-10% Reload Time (Conditional)
6 Max Stacks
18s Buff Duration

yeah spellslinger is the only other item that shortens reload

[rich grove]

oh no, affects Wraith as well

probably just Warden having huge bullets

[agile void]

try on someone like kelvin or viscous

they also have big bullets

[agile void]

Actually now I have a question for dota players

who is the one that has as an ult a revive with an AOE attack?

does silencing them stop the ult going off?

[upbeat perch]

are you thinking about https://www.dota2.com/hero/phoenix with supernova?

[somber creek]

Or skeleton king

[granite heath]

Wraith King has a reincarnate, silence/break doesn't stop it but by default he needs mana for it.

There's some new other weird rules for it with wraith form but thats the basics.

[upbeat perch]

supernova already mutes phoenix, it seems?

[agile void]

asking due to how victor is our skeleton king

and you cant really stop him from ulting

not even the highest tier of disable, curse, will stop the ult to go off

[upbeat perch]

but i guess supernova has the "stop that one there" being "punch that egg"

[agile void]

I wondered if that was the same over at dota

[rich grove]

they've got break in dota so in theory they could turn off e.g. haze fixation or infernus afterburn as well

[granite heath]

Doesn't break WK ult though

[agile void]

Tbh I also think it doesnt because It probably goes

dead, therefore, get rid of any debuffs that dont remain after death, then, revive

[rich grove]

curse doesn't break passives

obviously you can't fire your gun while cursed so it's less obvious for haze and infernus but abrams 3 will still work just fine while cursed tmk

[agile void]

Check with abrams, because haze/infernus/mirage and minas passive are more status that affect someone

ah nevermind then

[rich grove]

well all of them also need their gun to work lol

but e.g. silenced haze will still apply her fixation

[granite heath]

yep
I do wonder how much deadlock is "we have attached a third person camera to dota mechanics"
Does forced movement interrupt other forced movement? Are dispels, either internally or in-game "basic" and "hard"?

[agile void]

there is stuns and "root"/knock ups

[rich grove]

there are like two dispels

[agile void]

stuns keep you in place unable to do anything

[granite heath]

When are they putting Helm of the Dominator in deadlock

[agile void]

and root/knock ups allow you to shoot and use spells

probably that is what you mean with soft and hard cc?

[rich grove]

debuff remover removes non-ults, divine barrier removes everything except stuns on target

[agile void]

there is also slows and not being able to dash/use stamina

[rich grove]

cube removes everything

[agile void]

the glory of the cube

[rich grove]

hail the cube

[agile void]

🟩

(also allows you say fuck physics engine)

[rich grove]

unfortunately no generic euls

gotta be one of the funniest doters

[merry verge]

I'm fine with hard cc being a little tougher to find

[granite heath]

in dota, most (all?) stuns are "dispellable by hard dispels only", and there's a handful of abilities that can hard dispel. Most roots/disarms/silences can be dispelled with a basic dispel, which are more commonly available.
And the basic/hard is only for friendly dispels, dispelling enemies is just dispelling.

[agile void]

yeah I think it has to do with how you cant really dispell cc on allies

[rich grove]

there is some fairly miserable cc in deadlock which is why debuff remover is so vital

[agile void]

beyond certain skills

[rich grove]

but uh

dota is an extremely high-power game

[agile void]

and divine barrier

also deadlock is kind of as much of a movement shooter and a moba

[rich grove]

people complain so much about haze invis and yet watching even the most basic fog ganks in dota i felt a wave of unceasing terror rise up from somewhere between my appendix and colon

[agile void]

that is why they have been kind of getting rid of the bigger hard ccs

or are allowed if you get more duration on your skills

[warped ridge]

Wait people are complaining about Haze invis?

[agile void]

I dont think I have heard complains about the invis honestly

I have seen more complains of calico being able to roam the map and steall all the boxes when she could just walk into them

though I think it has to do with how Invis is only available on haze by default

[rich grove]

veilwalker also got a lot of heat back in the day when it was more universally useful with barriers, but invis is just generically strong and even moreso when haze can disable you while remaining invis because of sleep dagger

[agile void]

probably it also has to do with how here the ttk is higher

like compare it to like the invis heroes in rivals or overwatch

there they can kill you in 3 seconds or less

haze has to spend a few more seconds shooting, and you can probably disarm hex her and try to get out, so you arent that defenseless

[ivory reef]

Our squad rolls out under smoke at start of game to invade the enemy jungle before creeps spawn

And generally speaking our enemies expect it and are ready

That's just dota

We have invis and invisibility piercing detection and detection disrupting super invis

And you can buy that for 50 gold

[agile void]

honestly that one is the biggest difference in deadlock

there is technically no "Pos 1-5" (or 6 in this case)

as compared to dota everyone here gets the money evenly so long they are nearby when killing wave creeps

[rich grove]

yeah this game isn't nearly as reliant on the sight metagame as dota so things which break the rule are a lot more painful to deal with

[ivory reef]

You can still leave to jungle and give more souls to your carry

[agile void]

you can funnel the souls to one person. yes, but still everyone is getting something

[rich grove]

truesight just isn't a thing with the bizarre exception of backstabber for some reason

[agile void]

Also creep camps are viewable at every moment

[ivory reef]

Everyone gets something in Dota too

[rich grove]

I wish we had anything as cute as wards in this game..........

[ivory reef]

It's just that some people are a priority

That's the number

[somber creek]

Its also a lot easier to stealth because peolle dont have a top down view

[ivory reef]

It's the priority

[somber creek]

Like lash ganks so successfully because people dont look up

[rich grove]

you don't see the lash gank so you die
i hear the little cha klink sound of grapple and resign myself to my fate
we are the exact same

[agile void]

I get tired and I get knockdown ready

If I fuck him Up, that is my highlight of the match

then cry when they get unstoppable

[rich grove]

sometimes this feels like a lateral move because fog doesn't exist to nearly the same extent

[somber creek]

The only fog is the startlingly low render distance

[rich grove]

[agile void]

not even that technically

the only render that matters is probably the minions?

[rich grove]

most people can't do anything to you you can't see from outside 50m anyway so you really don't care that much

thankfully

[agile void]

this

[rich grove]

I am relieved we have never ever had to deal with haha meta

[agile void]

I think the only one that can do something is probably vind

at such long range

[rich grove]

I would actually say someone like high level Geist or Dynamo because you can lob AOEs that are actually genuinely likely to do something at far range

[agile void]

Meh not so much

[rich grove]

Dynamos with stacked TC + arcane surge can ragdoll you from disgustingly far away

[agile void]

Me, that I play dynamo decently, I get my stomps jumped

not always but enough to know a stomp is not always a hit either because of hitbox collision or because they can tell from a mile away I will stomp

still nice for waves

geist though, yeah

especially when bomb is t3 so its a puddle after

there is also kelvin and ivy too, but Ivy is not a burst of damage and Kelvins grenades are small enough that they kind of deserve the reward for aiming well

[mild flume]

Love to 100 to zero people out of smoke with a buddy and an instant cast hard disable - like 20 different dota heroes

Or if your kit lacks it store bought is fine too

Though deadlock definitely has some nasty gankers

[rich grove]

half the cast is or can become nuke dispensers of some variety

[agile void]

I just remembered this short

https://youtube.com/shorts/h9jfFWqDObY

[ivory reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icZOKjLxT-0 @bleak thicket

[rich grove]

we love the big D and I will leave the disambiguation up to the wikipedia editors

[magic summit]

Not every mechanic one to ones as much in Deadlock. It did moreso in earlier versions but now not so much. The dispels are as Thresh said but the forced movement is uh, weird. The game mostly bugs out a bit if two forced movements hit you at once and usually just has a preference of placing your final destination at the one that ended last

[rich grove]

there is sooooome jaaaaaank

abrams charge interacts extremely weirdly with some abilities like infernus dash

don't even get started on doorman ult

[magic summit]

Also for the recoil system one of the most notable examples of someone without it is just, Ivy

Ivy has a laser beam that pretends its a tommy gun

Oh, you also mention truesight just on Backstabber

There is also Mirage mark

And Drifter ult

[agile void]

Im surprised he doesnt mention Veilwalker

ah shit sorry for the ping

but yeah Veilwalker can also help you set up big blackholes, sadly dynamo is like, barely used in proplay due to how everyone is just more aware at every time
edit: Checked the comments, does mention veilwalker

[rich grove]

isn't mirage just minimap and not wallhacks like backstabber

[magic summit]

Huh. I always thought it was wall hacks too but I tested right after you said that

And it does not

Drifter definitely does at least

[rich grove]

release Mirage was a terror both for gameplay and audio reasons but I don't think even he got walls for procing mark

[finite patrol]

mmmm beeg boolet

[rich grove]

I don't even know why he gets the minimap ping to be totally honest with you. you gotta be a real fuh reak to teleport in on an enemy

[agile void]

tp to walker being attacked and contest splitpush

[magic summit]

I've only seen one person do that and it actually netting a kill

[rich grove]

OMEGA FREAK

epitomic pervert behaviour, genuine unwellness, profound malady

[magic summit]

The teleport takes too long for it to be used as a catch with the mark

[rich grove]

that and the giant ass purple indicator of I AM GOING TO BE HERE IN FIVE SECONDS doesn't help

[magic summit]

I should also specify in no way should he acquire a faster teleport

He's got enough bullshit going on as is

[rich grove]

please give Mirage Dawnbreaker ult

[magic summit]

Pls no

[rich grove]

it's funny that he's genuinely fairly mid now because on paper he is broken

[magic summit]

Multiple Mark and Tornado nerfs in a row

[rich grove]

he had a Paradox level of repeated hammering across every single new patch

[near current]

all deserved u should add

[agile void]

He basically gets to upkeep mystic regen at all times with his 3

[rich grove]

I mean Paradox hella deserved it too LMFAO

[tardy sundial]

finally tried paige
like this character a lot
dragon go brr

[rich grove]

honse

[autumn field]

Seriously?

Pocket works just like that?

[agile void]

I know that all pockets want majestic leap due to how is 1 works

[feral umbra]

Pocket's been pretty consistently dangerous at the low mmr tiers because the teleport and suitcase damage loop is nasty with the amp damage

[agile void]

or they just appear, splurge cold front, 4, 3 and then run away with 2

[feral umbra]

they're either incredibly dangerous or wet farts with a very powerful gun

[agile void]

let me get a pocket build from deathys guides

there are also glockets, but I think those tend to be only lower ranks

you are wasting your escape tool as a heavy boost to gun so either you win or you die

[autumn field]

im popping off like CRAZY rn

[rich grove]

it turns out affliction is a very good spell

so just maxing it out is a good enough gameplan for uhhhh every rank

and then in the interim you can just do the standard barrage cape cold front bombos and do Okay enough damage

main thing about affliction is that post-debuff remover nerf it actually does win you the teamfight a majority of the time

[autumn field]

Like i only have 3 kills rn but im playing against a paige and viscus

ok damn i am FAST AS FUCK

I LOVE GUN

issue is i die really fast

im not that great at living

we won/

as usual, highest obj. dmg in the whole game

[feral umbra]

vyper is a lot of fun and her design is great

but she's considered the weakest right now, because she's basically a Wraith with shorter range than Drifter

and her kit is kind of bad if the enemy purchases one single Metal Skin or Return Fire

did you do the slide across the little pedestal section at the back of the enemy base for infinite ammo?

[somber creek]

Yeah every ADC and Ivy does her job better than she does and a lot easier

Which sucks because shes the best character like

Personality wise

[rich grove]

meet potentialm1

they call her 007
0 tournament pick/bans
0 contribution to shooting players instead of towers
7 funny voicelines

[somber creek]

I can't believe people are doing tournaments of a game in Alpha

[rich grove]

it's Valve

[autumn field]

thats kinda proof of how damn good the game is tbh

it feels better than most FPS games lmao

[autumn field]

i have like 9 stamina so why do i care lol

the build i run rn

it's basically a blend of things i like with things ik how to use roughly ordered

[somber creek]

I do hope

Deadlock does not end up yet another digital casino

[autumn field]

wdym digital casino

btw, is gun drifter a valid build?

[somber creek]

Its his normal build so yeah

[autumn field]

every build i see is spirit+++

[somber creek]

Every other current valve multi-player game is largely a loot box based casino which largely just exists to print money through cosmetics and third party illegal gambling sites

[autumn field]

huh.

[ivory reef]

I don't think that's really true

[somber creek]

Its true of at least CS:GO and TF2.

Maybe less so Dota 2 but still

[ivory reef]

Do you have any numbers? I'm trying to look it up

We know that dota and csgo are the two highest revenue generating games on steam

And I don't consider illegal gambling sites to be a valve thing

[somber creek]

Well Valve knows about them and quietly sanctions them, considering some of these sites openly sponsor competitive teams

And yeah you can at least look up the number of bots in TF2 at any given time thanks to https://teamwork.tf/community/statistics

[ivory reef]

... How does that translate into their bottom line, truly

[somber creek]

Millions, as a result

[ivory reef]

Do you have numbers? I'm genuinely trying to find any

I know the compendium directly funds the prize pools and shows how much people are directly purchasing it every year, and it's a lot

And there are loads of brand deals and sponsorships yeah

[somber creek]

https://insider-gaming.com/valve-cs-cases-earnings/

For csgo

And like, the third party sites directly attract new gamblers to these ecosystems because it gives them an avenue to cash out

Instead of remaining on steam

Less data is available for Dota 2 due to Valve not willingly sharing the information

[ivory reef]

By sheer process of elimination I think it's pretty clear that csgo and current TF2 make a lot of money off of lootboxes since I think that's the only thing left for people to spend money on right now (I may be wrong)

[somber creek]

I mean, correct

[autumn field]

bot matches kinda fuckin suck

[somber creek]

Bots cant handle Difter

[ivory reef]

I'm still not sure how much this is them directly supporting the casinos or getting that much value out of them

[somber creek]

He breaks their brains

[autumn field]

like

i wanted more souls before we won 😭

[rich grove]

the reason why this is bad is surely as direct as why TCG packs are bad is it not

that is before the fact that they clearly are allowing the entire secondary economy to exist

I think literally the only thing that makes it any better is the fact that skins don't generally have in game utility like S gacha pulls or mythics in TCGs but it is still extremely offputting and scummy to me

[somber creek]

Its different for valve, as they take a portion of the trades made on steam

So they do, directly, profit off the second hand market

[autumn field]

honestly as long as its only cosmetic idc

[ivory reef]

Yeah it's for sure pretty bad. I'm just not sure it's quite so bad that I'd call the projects strictly existing purely to be giant casinos

[somber creek]

https://youtu.be/eMmNy11Mn7g?si=7pKkOF5iRnRqs9iY

[ivory reef]

And I do have unsolved feelings among the only-cosmetic thing yeah. Blizzard did the same thing with overwatch

[rich grove]

I mean if it's as bad as TCGs then I don't see why they'd be off-limits to the same deep razzing we give those games

[somber creek]

This guy has interviews with ex valve employees which directly state that the sites are known and are kept around because they benefit Valve

[ivory reef]

I appreciate the link, will take a look

[ivory reef]

I guess, putting my finger on it, it feels like there's a whale layer and a people who play the game layer and they're pretty disjoint across the people I know who engage with valve games in a way I haven't seen with them engaging with other games. I think that's where my brain is pausing

The reality is that everyone i know who plays csgo and Dota just buy the pro subscriptions and the compendium every year

And that's definitely.... Different.. To how they played hearthstone

But that doesn't mean there aren't lots of other people who get dragged into this mess

[rich grove]

I highly highly disagree wrt CSGO, the only guys I know who play DOTA are crotchety 40 year olds with 80 year old souls so no disagreement there

[ivory reef]

I'll admit all my personal experience is with dota yeah

[rich grove]

but having a cool knife on CSGO is an entire thing and a whole bunch of popular nominal CSGO content creators literally stake their entire image on gamba

[ivory reef]

I just know people who play cs, I don't play cs myself

[rich grove]

like ohnepixel is just a guy who soyfaces and opens cases on stream and he's *on mic at Katowice

[somber creek]

Is that the guy who owned the site he gambled on

And fudged it without telling

[rich grove]

idk about full commentary but he's at major events and all his running gags are LOOK GUYS I SOLD A THING THAT WOULD BLOW UP and nonironic LET'S GO GAMBLING

man I have no clue which is telling lol

[somber creek]

I have nothing against people who enjoy Valve products but I do think Valve as a company is just as bad as a lot of other gaming companies, just theyre able to be quieter about it since they're private.

This isnt an indictment on anyone other than The Company

[rich grove]

not footgunning your PR over and over doesn't sound like a high bar, and yet...

[finite patrol]

you'd be surprise

[somber creek]

Remember when they accidentally switcherooed everyone's steam details including addresses

And then just like

Never apologized

[rich grove]

as an ex-destiny player i wish i could be

=_=

[somber creek]

Oh god if thats the bar then yeah

[ivory reef]

I definitely get the feeling that csgo is much much worse than everything else they're doing

But I'm not sure if that's true or why

[somber creek]

Its because it is the one that has like

The biggest economy around it

Theres less of a Dota 2 gambling scene

[rich grove]

there's a very very small one for TF2 but it's pretty miniscule just cause TF2 itself is moribund

[somber creek]

Yeah

Actually what is that word

Moribund

[rich grove]

it's terminal

[somber creek]

Thats a good ass word

[rich grove]

the first time I heard it used was reading a book about languages at 8 where it was used to describe Latin

[somber creek]

Vocabulary increased

[finite patrol]

csgo skin gambling gets reported on way more often

[rich grove]

also they're fucking loud about it too

basically any CS content is sponsored by gamba

[somber creek]

TF2 though is largely still only chugging along to support the gambling scene

[rich grove]

Vitality is sponsored by fucking STAKE these days which grosses me out so bad

[finite patrol]

their stranglehold on digital pc game distribution is pretty dire imo

[rich grove]

you can't watch broadcasts without getting blasted with ads for SkinClub or what have you

[somber creek]

Yeah

Its like sports betting getting ads at the nfl

[rich grove]

they've got karambits on poobee. they've got butterflies on toobaloo. you can sell your brother to organ harvesters for an m4 on sloopdoop

[ivory reef]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1jk8q6c/why_does_dota_have_so_many_trade_restrictions/

I think there's more limits too

[rich grove]

even TF2 content is sponsored by skin trading sites too

not necessarily straight up gamba (although some promotions...), but still the Valve-condoned secondary market which directly feeds them cash

[ivory reef]

I remember there was a Dota team recently that got sponsored by... Betboom? @earnest verge am I remembering this right

[rich grove]

yeah BetBoom are in CS as well

this is partially just an esports thing unfortunately

[earnest verge]

there's a lot of gambling ones in Dota yeah

Betboom is a big one

[ivory reef]

Hmmm

[rich grove]

I think people are slowly just realizing that the current model of esports is just a money pit

[earnest verge]

But I'd say that most of the big teams that aren't oil money are gambling money

[rich grove]

recently Complexity, one of the longest-standing NA organizations, had to disband because they were just too deep in a hole economically

[earnest verge]

(admittedly I'm not sure how many of the big ones are oil money other than Falcons)

[rich grove]

no ZIRP means a lot of orgs are dead or dying

EternalFire also had their roster sold to Aurora

[somber creek]

League world championships being as big as they are always astounded me

[rich grove]

and of course, aurora.........

[ivory reef]

I thought the international and the tournaments were funded by valve

[rich grove]

again this is kind of venturing out into the unfortunate reality of esports: it is just fundamentally financially ruinous, without either a willing money printer or adopting a lot of the traditional sports tactics like PPV

[ivory reef]

Isn't the compendium just a working solution here? I thought it proved itself every year

[rich grove]

Valve supports things partially but teams themselves are paid for by private third parties

[somber creek]

Yeah

[rich grove]

in CS at least there's a huge deal about qualifying for the major because orgs make a supermajority of their investment back from major sticker sales

if you fail to do that you can genuinely just nuke your team's bottom line

there's been such a huge push in recent times for pro players to make content because the org just does not make enough money from tourneys alone

they need the additional revenue streams from twitch otherwise they won't be able to cash the cheques at the end of the day

[somber creek]

Imagine if NFL teams that didnt win the superbowl for 5 years just stopped existing

[rich grove]

hiring coaching, psychologists, other player staff and the players themselves for a full-time job is just all incredibly expensive on its own, even before taking into account gear and equipment costs, accommodation, flights...

and if your ROI is 100% reliant on them performing at tournaments and at tournaments only then there's just no amount of money which is gonna make that viable

[somber creek]

Aren't race horses better ROI

[rich grove]

I mean almost certainly lol

guess where that money comes from though

[somber creek]

I was gonna say studding

But im guessing its also gamba

[rich grove]

yeah lol

and also if your horse sucks

[upbeat perch]

huh, TIL on the TF2 being moneyed by gambling too part

[rich grove]

unfortunately it will probably be a stallioncel forever

[somber creek]

Well hey if nothing else

Cool horse

[ivory reef]

TF2 started as a complete purchasable product

[rich grove]

🟧

[ivory reef]

It then got turned into a guinea pig for a ton of monetization experiments

[somber creek]

You cant ride an esports team along a sunlit path

[ivory reef]

And now it's a f2p hatfest

The original even

Patient zero

[rich grove]

the low hanging fruit... it's right there... it's so ripe...... so delicious

[ivory reef]

Regardless that still puts it in a weird spot where a lot of its money just came the old fashioned way at the start

[upbeat perch]

yeah i heard a few experiments were done on TF2 which then informed the creation of workshop and also the marketplace

[somber creek]

Yeah i mean, valve used to be like

One of THE game devs

[ivory reef]

Valve tried to create Artifact

So happy that burned so hard

[somber creek]

Oh my GOD

I forgot about that

[upbeat perch]

didn't the TF2 embedded economist now serve as department of treasury head in some country?

[ivory reef]

I have nothing but boiling hate for artifact and I won't forget or forgive them for it

[feral umbra]

lol artifact

[upbeat perch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/2txapm/former_valve_hat_economist_is_now_officially/

oh... greece... 11 years ago

[somber creek]

Like genuinely my biggest surprise about Deadlock is that like

[upbeat perch]

hey when was greece's uhhh

money go away event?

[somber creek]

The devs who havent made anything are still knocking every aspect out of the park

[somber creek]

Designs are good, writing is fantastic, gameplay is fun

[rich grove]

it genuinely does not seem possible that it's this good

[somber creek]

All by guys who just sat around doin nuttin

[rich grove]

imagine if the silksong guys didn't even say "we're gonna make a second game"

[finite patrol]

Jacob Lash is an Asshole

[ivory reef]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_gambling

Hmm

[rich grove]

some random celeste speedrunner posts one blurry screenshot of hornet and the internet explodes

[ivory reef]

It very much is csgo

It's like csgo and then everyone else

[somber creek]

Yeah

[rich grove]

CS just has the most ludicrously inflated value on its skins

[somber creek]

Because they are pachinko gifts

[rich grove]

if you ever need to start crying for some reason go look at a skin market in descending value and start your eyes imediately watering

[somber creek]

Someone in a discord im in

TODAY

Said they gambled and got about 1700 dollars worth of skins

[rich grove]

yes reader that is indeed a fake video game knife being sold for 5943.01 USD

[quiet sapphire]

super ultra rare white marble fade karambit 0.000017 float

13 trillion dollar

[earnest verge]

@mild flume i think u r being subtweeted

[somber creek]

Do you think if TF2 didnt exist we would have nfts

Like if we cut that out of the timeline

[rich grove]

hey it's not just gran
it's also the old arizonan guy I pulled you into a VC with while watching the PreI

but yes it is also gran

[finite patrol]

I'll give you 3 chaos orbs

[somber creek]

Also @ivory reef apologies for the start of this conversation being negative on my part

[ivory reef]

In October 2019, Valve removed the ability for CS:GO container keys to traded or resold and tying purchased keys to the buyer's account, as they had found that nearly all such container keys were being used to support the grey market of skin gambling and real-world money laundering.[97]

In May 2023, Valve added "commercial practices" including gambling to their prohibited practices in the steam code of conduct.[98] The following month, bans were issued to more than 40 high-profile steam accounts involved in supplying skins to various gambling sites. This resulted in over $2 million being locked to individuals accounts.[99]

[rich grove]

3 chaos orbs? hey johnny give this guy a fake video game knife with NUTHIN

[ivory reef]

I mean, big picture it's my responsibility to not get defensive over some megacorp product

I'm definitely learning things today

But it still feels more complicated than the usual gacha company stuff

[somber creek]

Yeah its the ability to cash out

Which makes it more insidious than normal

[rich grove]

it makes it so much weirder and more unpleasant

I compared it to WOTC but you would bankrupt most LGSes dealing in equivalents to CS skins

[ivory reef]

CSGOCaseTracker.com claimed that more than 400 million cases were unboxed in 2023, with CS players spending a whopping $980 million on case keys.

[rich grove]

that's like having an entire inventory of just duals and power nine

[ivory reef]

So this isn't casino stuff then

Like the keys can't be moved

[earnest verge]

it sounds like basically a particular mixture of speculative investment and gambling to me yeah

[ivory reef]

It's just gacha style personal gambling

[somber creek]

Its not entirely, but the skins are largely being unboxed to fuel the casino gambling

[rich grove]

this is openly advertised functionality on one of the more popular skin sites out there

[somber creek]

Like its impossible to tell the difference between legitimate and gambling users from just who buys crates

[rich grove]

and I mean it's not slot machines

but uhh

yeah you should uhhh surrender one of your old skins for some kind of randomly determined chance to receive a new, better one

wink wink wink

[ivory reef]

Right cause the skins themselves after being unboxed can be moved

[rich grove]

yeah

[somber creek]

Yeah

And the skins can only be moved in the Steam ecosystem, and can only be purchased from Valve

Meaning that the only person in the whole transaction guaranteed to profit 100% of the time is valve

[autumn field]

That sounds like a scam

[rich grove]

you could maybe try selling your account or something to circumvent it but having a locked steam inventory pretty much nixes its value

[finite patrol]

gambling is usually a scam

[somber creek]

At least gacha games have to disclose their rates now

These sites are legally gray and love it

[quiet sapphire]

armour trimming in the big 25 🥀

[earnest verge]

ashley

it's 2:20 am

[ivory reef]

I guess we'll definitely have to see where they're going to go with deadlock

Yeah

[upbeat perch]

my read on the situation is valve's non-intervention primary instinct (seen also during the BLM movement and IIRC there's internal discussion of if steam should say something using its platform) is a contributing factor in the case of the gambling

[rich grove]

not even wrong 😭

[finite patrol]

im gonna continue enjoying deadlock for what it is for now

[somber creek]

Yeah same

[upbeat perch]

well... dunno if it's valve's or newell's

[ivory reef]

I do get the feeling, though this does not free them from responsibility, that valve are just kinda weird and artist driven and slow and don't particularly care

[earnest verge]

they're def a weird company

[ivory reef]

A lot of these decisions seem sorta random and like they didn't see the consequences coming in advance

They don't have that grimy nexon feel when I read the reports of everything they're doing

[rich grove]

they're generally pretty laissez-faire

[somber creek]

They did hire a psychologist specifically for designing the economies iirc

[ivory reef]

They really suck at controlling csgo, and they're doing better with the other games they could clamp before they got as bad

Like even artifact was like

I remember it being this bizarre Richard Garfield fever dream

Back in the era of everyone having a hard on for true digital ownership or whatever

[upbeat perch]

an actual economist, see my linked article [here](#1276682303384457256 message)

[ivory reef]

And how much they missed that from irl cards

And then when NFTs did show up valve crushed them

They're still anti nft on steam iirc, and anti block chain, and was it them who started the thing where every game has to declare if it has AI?

I have a lot of criticism over modern MTG but I do actually believe that the start of the mtg gambling thing was kind of a mistake

Garfield talks about wanting a sense of mystery and wonder in opening packs as a kid cause you could see a card nobody else sees and frankly I think he definitely was that optimistic and dumb + nobody had done what he was gonna do that they didn't know

So. Where they take csgo and where they take deadlock is stuff to keep an eye on

[somber creek]

Ye

[ivory reef]

They're kinda running the wizards: no sense of right or wrong build

[rich grove]

he was pack openheimer

[somber creek]

I am hoping
Its not evil

Pack John Gatling

[ivory reef]

Like they're clearly doing a lot of stuff that is just consumer friendly and utopian

[somber creek]

Pack That Guy Who Invented Forever Chemicals

[ivory reef]

But also holy fuck they absolutely stumbled upon inventing the worst forms of monetization on the planet

[somber creek]

Private companies are eldritch beings

[autumn field]

Honestly though Deadlock is stupid fucking fun once you get into it’s “state”

I hope Vyper gets a fat buff next patch because I fucking adore Vyper

[ivory reef]

I mean, Dota is a real game too. It's very good and they push crazy patches every year for free for everyone

I can see that same energy here

[earnest verge]

valve doesn't really look like or operate like the other capitalist hellscape companies

I don't know exactly what Valve is up to but it's definitely a weird place

[ivory reef]

There's a much stronger aura of negligence

Like, they sent some cease and desists to gambling companies

... In 2016

[autumn field]

Honestly right now I just learned not to give a shit about F2P games with a hella paid cosmetics Econ

[ivory reef]

They banned accounts locking up 4 million in gambling skins in 2023

But that's not a lot

[autumn field]

Until they start pushing excessive monetization over everything

[ivory reef]

They kinda get up and slap a few bad guys and sleep for years

And gambling money is all over their brand deals in Dota even

[somber creek]

TF2 I think is valves meanest sin

[autumn field]

Like, Apex Legends went the horrible route and made like everything cost cash cash cash so you had to pay for the BP every time, etc

[ivory reef]

Not to mention Saudi stuff

[somber creek]

Like its the thing that just feels soulless in its cruelty

[autumn field]

Ironically The Finals has the best model right now

[somber creek]

"This is our most company defining game, yet its also the backbone of our economy because if we let it die then everyone realizes the skin economy is ephemeral"

"Thusly do we let it suffer in purgatory"

They God Emperor of Man-ed that game

[ivory reef]

I mean. I think it's okay for a company to leave a game in a done state

[autumn field]

As long as you play for long enough you can get a large number of their premium currency cosmetics for free, including the old BPs and so on. Then you can pay cash for the ++ version of cosmetics in the BP

[ivory reef]

I dunno how I feel about the weird hatedom TF2 fans have over the update cycle

Like they released coop bot play and stuff and just moved on

I think it's okay for them to move on

[autumn field]

I wanted to play TF2 but it’s usually just people fucking around and maybe a sniper sniping and that’s about it now

It also feels really weird to get into for some reason

[somber creek]

Its because its largely just like

The most dedicated players now

Even in community servers

[ivory reef]

TF2 is almost 20 years old.

[somber creek]

Yea

[ivory reef]

I think a game is allowed to die at that point

The fact that they're keeping the servers up for the fans is fine

[somber creek]

I did get really annoyed at people saying TF2 "outlived" any game

[autumn field]

I kinda want a TF3

Kinda.

[somber creek]

I think this is that

[ivory reef]

... In the deadlock thread

This is so funny

[finite patrol]

in a way I think you're playing that

[ivory reef]

Gee

I wonder

I wonder what it could be

[somber creek]

Fuck i have a script meeting in the morning

[autumn field]

Lmao

[somber creek]

I should not have stayed up this late

[finite patrol]

parrying the heavy discourse and stunning you to sleep

[rich grove]

the meeterrrrrrrr

[autumn field]

I mean TF3 in the “we remade TF2” sense

[quiet sapphire]

yeah titanfall 2 was a good game

[autumn field]

But only because that lets me like, actually play the game and experience it

[quiet sapphire]

shame what's going over with the apex devs

/s

[autumn field]

I wanted to play the game but could never find a match that wasn’t 80% fucking around and 20% movement god or some insane aim lord

[upbeat perch]

man, i wonder if some students will get their doctor's degree studying playing deadlock and change in cognition function over time... i swear this game feels like it needs the most awareness out of current day video games...

and then some chinese player writes a guide that starts with "if you were to want to master deadlock, first off with your PP" <-contemporary chinese literature reference, do not worry about the joke

[warped ridge]

Awareness?

[warped ridge]

Best bet is to watch for titanfall 2 steam sales and play during those times when a bunch of people are picking the game up for the first time.

If you still get lobbies with someone being waaaay above everyone else then thats just your MMR

I will say I'm def liking deadlock and continue to watch how it progresses

I just have to be mindful to actually play it every once in awhile so I don't fall prey to dota-isms where there's people doing 720 Abraham lash kill reverse siphon bullet headshot slide into charged melee parries or some bonkers thing

[quiet sapphire]

what

that tech is so last week

get with the times

[autumn field]

Team fortress

I own Titanfall

[warped ridge]

Oh you want team fortress 3

Bwuuuuuh

Yeah I got nothing sorry

[warped ridge]

I'm waiting for bf6 to drop so I can do AC thrust vectoring and style on the jet veterans from bf3/bf4

I'm like 90% sure only chinese players are getting to test bf6 right now so they get early access to figuring out the thrust vectoring

closest I can get to this is playing Yamato, grappling someone mid air, then ulting after I land the grapple to refresh the grapple and grapple them again

but that was 2024

[mild flume]

Oi!

[earnest verge]

by thresh, not me

dw i would never describe you as being in your forties until you're actually there 😌

and u got five years and two months to go

[autumn field]

bruh the actual lightbringer is teaching how to play victor

[ivory reef]

Oh, never responded to this: they are actually just working on Dota

Like this is clearly an extension of Dota design if you play Dota and Dota is full of their extremely successful decade of lessons making this kind of game good

They added talent trees to every hero last year and I look at deadlock and that's the core levelup design

[rich grove]

I don't think we've gotten anything nearly as transformative as facets yet but it wouldn't surprise me if eventually they decided to add something similar

I also think it's basically a matter of time til we get Agh's

[ivory reef]

They literally removed a lane

[ivory reef]

Tbh I actually don't like aghs. I think the deadlock system is a way to do aghs right. It's nice and cool and good that abilities can change in cool interesting ways and the way deadlock does that with the 5 ability point tier is excellent and gives tons of variety to every character and is a great balance lever

As opposed to aghs scepter + aghs shard + talent tree

Like dota is kinda stumbling into greatness here by papering over its terrible level system with new systems

[mild flume]

I think aghs is more interesting in a game with meaningful positions and roles

and such

[agile void]

I think I saw a post that found out Icefrog being the one posting news

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1mwcmgx/it_was_icefrog_who_posted_about_the_six_new/

Also we know that Hopoo games are into this, we have confirmation by the devs in the discord that Vyper and I think Sinclair? are Hopoo creations

(Hopoo are the guys that created Risk of Rain 2)

Mentioning this to say that these guys are not new people, they have been around the industry for a while

(Im reading through the conversations in the morning)

On account of the monetization, Someone found codes

and someone found more codes that look like... Kind of a mission system

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1n8j3to/i_found_a_complete_hidden_game_mode_in_deadlocks/

[somber creek]

This image fucking kills me every time I see it

[quiet sapphire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga9nMjigPWs&t=969s

freak so strong it breaks kayfabe

[ivory reef]

how useful are pings if you're in a 6 stack

does it display locational information?

or is it just voice lines

[somber creek]

It does

and very, in my experience

People Do Not Pay Attention in 6 mans lol

[ivory reef]

hmm?

I mean, let's say you're all in a voice call together

that's what I mean

[somber creek]

Yeah

6 people talking means there's a lot of potential for details to slip

And pinging does ping their map

[finite patrol]

hey abrams is right here on your mini map

v useful

[quiet sapphire]

oh yeah if you ping a person the marker does follow them for a bit

[tardy sundial]

also using text to say whos missing in lane is useful

[quiet sapphire]

So it's actually useful because it shows you "oh abrams fucked off to go gambling at the casino"

[tardy sundial]

split pushing is very strong in breadlock

[quiet sapphire]

It's actually cool because sometimes it gives a little bit more than "I see Abrams!"

Sometimes it goes "Shiv is on the bridge!" or "Lash is on the roof!"

[agile void]

you dont even need to say it

ping the portrait on top

it will say "X is missing"

[ivory reef]

this is exactly what I was looking for

what are the ideal keybinds for deadlock movement?

[quiet sapphire]

I use the side buttons on my mouse for dashing and ducking/crouching/sliding

Before you get started, I highly recommend changing your dash and crouch keybinds to keys that are not Shift and Ctrl. I personally use the side buttons of my mouse and this is the default within the movement community. Others have switched over to ESDF and used surrounding keys, or have switched to different input methods entirely.

[ivory reef]

gotcha yeah I already changed those but I'm wondering if this is a game that gets value out of scrollwheel jumps

[quiet sapphire]

From dlmovement.wiki

[ivory reef]

okay, I'm probably fine then

I might move ping back to middle mouse

middle mouse is parry for me right now

[quiet sapphire]

I think some techs might benefit from it

I think... parrydashing might since it's a same-tick technique

So it helps if you parry --> scrollwheel for dash

[ivory reef]

ironically I might just put parry on scrollwheel

same idea

[quiet sapphire]

bunnyhopping most of the time you're slide bunnyhopping so you don't need to have something like scrollwheel jumps

When sliding in a Slide Bunnyhop, sliding for less than 0.5 seconds at a time will inflict a speed penalty onto you, decreasing speed dramatically. For this reason, it is recommended to slide for more than 0.5 seconds at a time.

The first slide in a Slide Bunnyhop does not have this property applied to it, so instantly jumping for the first one is viable.

[ivory reef]

my current keybinds are:

• spacebar as jump, default
• ctrl as crouch. capslock is also ctrl on my keyboard on a registry key level, I use capslock.
• scrollwheel up as jump
• scrollwheel down as reload
• mouse4 dash
• mouse5 melee
• middle mouse parry

I should put ping on my mouse again

[somber creek]

Remember to bind "Thank You" to left click

[finite patrol]

consider rebinding so that jump and cancel ability are not the same key

by default they are both on space

[ivory reef]

For channels?

[finite patrol]

yeah

also cancels stuff like cube

[ivory reef]

Hmm. Is there ever gonna be a moment you're spamming jump before a channel

I feel like space is pretty convenient

[agile void]

you will cancel channels accidentally

I do as dynamo sometimes

[finite patrol]

there are multiple channels you can move around during

[ivory reef]

If you can jump during a channel you definitely should rebind it

[agile void]

honestly I need to rebind it to cancel by pressing the skill button

Oh yeah yeah

there are some skills that are better off as "confirm cast"

like grenades

[ivory reef]

I just instant cast everything

It's basically correct

[tardy sundial]

I personally put dash/crouch on m4/5
melee to Shift
parry to E
and interact to F

[ivory reef]

That sounds like it would make dashing into a crouch really hard

[warped ridge]

I also have crouch on my side mouse buttons

[tardy sundial]

its really easy because my mouse has a side numpad

[warped ridge]

old titanfall 2 movement ergo

[tardy sundial]

but that's personal hardware

[agile void]

main reason why you would want confirm cast

[tardy sundial]

I do all my dashing crouching and casting with right thumb because of the mouse numpad

means the left hand never has to reach for the numbar

[warped ridge]

makes sense, for me it's mailnly because if I need to hit directional movement (2 keys) + item activation (1 key) + ability activation (1 key), if I also did crouch on left hand then I couldn't do all at once

but I'll admit I am a human with only 5 fingers on each hand

[agile void]

another important thing

what you put here

[ivory reef]

that really doesn't matter unless you're queueing with randoms

[tardy sundial]

havent decided yet

[ivory reef]

if you plan on stacking the only thing pings give you is locational information

which is valuable

[quiet sapphire]

b-b-b-but

how will you say "Rejuv's Dropping" before mid boss has even spawned?

Or "I'll deal with the troopers"

[warped ridge]

learn the pings depending on your group's communication level yeah

[ivory reef]

when you steal souls are they shared with your lane partner

[quiet sapphire]

yeah

[ivory reef]

@primal sphinx ^ I was wrong

[quiet sapphire]

There used to be a thing for the first 8 minutes of the game souls would be duplicated so you'd both get 100% of the trooper's soul value

But people found weird and wacky ways to exploit that iirc

So

Before the 2025-04-17 update, two players in the same lane both received 100% of souls before 8 minutes (soul duplication). Now the soul distribution is the same for the entire match, so both players get 65% per Trooper.

[ivory reef]

when do the crates spawn under mid

[quiet sapphire]

2 minutes for normal crates I think the mid crates might be something like 4 minutes?

I vaguely recall there being a change for that... somewhere???

unless I've just CONFABULATED everything again

https://deadlock.wiki/The_Cursed_Apple#Map_Timings_and_Events

don't see anything special for mid crates spawning slightly later so it seems like 2 minutes it is

[ivory reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIqg8itdJ8g

says 10 minutes

[quiet sapphire]

thought there was a special timer for mid crates

[agile void]

There is

they spawn at minute 10

[quiet sapphire]

I'll verify and then update the wiki I suppose

[agile void]

if you mean from crates and creeps, those arent shared

they are fully yours, unless they also shoot at the creeps

[finite patrol]

crates at 2 minutes. buffs at 5 minutes. sinners sacrifice at 8 minutes. mid boss mid crates and buffs at 10 minutes.

[agile void]

BUT those souls arent secured

[finite patrol]

she means from denied lane creeps.

[agile void]

if the enemy kills you before you use them or are secured, they drop and the enemy can grab it

[ivory reef]

I mean shouting soul orbs from friendly troopers

when you steal those souls are they shared with your lane partner or not

[finite patrol]

yes they are shared

[agile void]

also if you didnt knew

[finite patrol]

you each get about 31

[agile void]

killing the creep by melee doesnt make the orb spawn

so there are cases of people attempting to melee a creep

then parrying before they get to the creep to stun them

I got some people like that and also got caught by doing that

or parrying when you are punching a sinners

[ivory reef]

do ilght melee kills secure souls too

[finite patrol]

yes but it's not very reliable ime

[agile void]

its reliable, the issue is how you have to eyeball the remaining life to kill it it with a light melee

[finite patrol]

I think she's asking about the souls after a trooper has been shot.

[ivory reef]

nah that was killing via light melee

thanks guys

[agile void]

people just heavy melee the creeps most of the time unless they have a sliver of health

[quiet sapphire]

i actually prefer light melee

[finite patrol]

oh yeah if you kill via any melee it autosecures and if you can light melee that doesn't leave you as vulnerable

[feral umbra]

I just discovered that Mina's ult lvl 3 can shred the mid-boss in seconds

I had like 38 stacks of kiss and Spirit Burn and as long as someone else tanked it for me, I could reliablity 100-0 it

sooooooo a Mina nerf is probably incoming because that feels....mmmmmmmmm bad

to be on the other side of

[tardy sundial]

late game mina is so comical to be on the receiving end of right now

she breaks your ankles and eats you in 3 seconds flat

[feral umbra]

I wonder if I should build siphon bullets on her

[twilit roost]

Good chance spirit burn gets changed instead, currently has no cool down when you proc it on objectives which is why it just eats them

[finite patrol]

wait fr?

hilarious

[quiet sapphire]

Oh shit

so that's why mina's ult just eats objectives

wish there was a mid boss and a walker in the sandbox

[agile void]

Meeeeh? The op thing about mina is her t3 on ult making every bat do % health

that is the main thing that allows spirit burn to trigger so consistently, if anything Im surprised that wasnt tweaked on objectives already, especially with how before they have tweaked ults like Warden/Bebop/mcginnis against objectives

https://youtu.be/DG6koCT0-Bk

the glory of the cube

[agile void]

have the weekly (community) tourneys

https://twitch.tv/deadlocknightshift

In one hour the next stream starts

[rich grove]

I mean bane suddenly being a right clicks hero or the veno giant snake altering what the heroes do rather than overall systemic changes

[ivory reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TZBLvNNook

[rich grove]

we love the vents

[quiet sapphire]

i saw bebop venting at yellow bridge

fucking vote him out now

[agile void]

The chroma abrams

[finite patrol]

undertale

[magic summit]

Trooper ally split is 100/65/28/15/12/8%
Kill ally split is 100/100/90/85/80/75%

Same with denies like that

A useful metric to remember and why being stuck in base sucks

[agile void]

also why you shouldnt be with 2 or more teammates unless you are in a teamfight or storming base

this was to discourage deathballing alongside more resistances on the walkers depending on how many people are nearby

https://www.youtube.com/live/gKRxXr69L8I?si=4-PwCBWP5S0Bu4AU

[near current]

wait its a bo1?

[agile void]

Probably because of how many matches there are

if they did a bo3 you would see every group be 1 hour and half fighting each others

worst case scenario, 2 hours and a half

https://bsky.app/profile/ulsae.bsky.social/post/3lya7h7kfm22k

[somber creek]

for the record I think mods want the memeing to stop

[agile void]

Just the political one, this one is fine?

[twilit roost]

oh got it

https://packaged-media.redd.it/h1y4rxnvndof1/pb/m2-res_720p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1757563200&s=52a66b71c9f8229a7251117959b9d352f740afc8 these portal mechanics are gettingout of hand

[autumn field]

wtf happened to his hp

[twilit roost]

oh wait yeah wtf

[merry verge]

HP is always kind of fucked in replays for whatever reason

[agile void]

tbh, That the eldritch entity accidentally falls off reality sounds as expected

[merry verge]

Sometimes he leaves the game to hang out with the AI Director from L4D2

[agile void]

There is also him going to put a door in the base and due to wall shenanigans you cant get out of basically the fountain

[somber creek]

The one specifically about Kirk being killed yeah

[near current]

has there been any leaks since hero update?

[agile void]

there is this

[agile void]

this

there is also mentions that apparently, this was going to be a 7 hero update

[near current]

i heard that

[agile void]

with the "priest" (which the name changed to venator) was going to come out alongside the rest. but something in him stopped the devs from pushing him out

[autumn field]

Question, in later parts of the game is it worth saving 3200~ extra for any counters?

Like spirit burn versus your victor, assuming you don’t have debuff cleansing or the like?

[somber creek]

yes

[agile void]

problem is victor can cleanse it

you need to get silence wave to stop him from using his 2 that cleanses any antiheal

[autumn field]

That’s… that’s my point?

[finite patrol]

3200 counter items are some of the most valuable in terms of how much play you get for souls expended in the game

[maiden ledge]

counterplay is good

as far as ive heard at least

[finite patrol]

you can win games by buying knockdown against seven, haze, or lash and then they have to spend 6400 to counter your 3200 or live in fear / try to bait cooldowns

[glass flicker]

This is inaccurate Lash is a lesbian too

[finite patrol]

the lash is a lashbian

[glass flicker]

Truth Urn

[autumn field]

The lash is an asshole.

[magic summit]

A lot of getting better at the game is just learning you are going to have to spend that 3200 on Debuff Remover

It's usually worth it

[agile void]

its weird the match that is not Worth it

[agile void]

I must have misunderstood it then, the point is, technically Spirit burn is "bad" against victor because he can cleanse it with his 2

[autumn field]

oh yeah thats true

[agile void]

healbane is technically more worth it because even if he cleanses it, it will just reapply in the next tick of spirit damage

[autumn field]

but it's still apparently good if you silence him first iirc

[agile void]

that or toxic bullets

[agile void]

its good for 2 reason

silence, cant use 2

(good)

and

it also fucks up his spirit resistance

what does this means?

he will take more self damage

you technically want to get both spirit defense shredding and antiheal against him

now his aura becomes a liability for him and he cant heal as well as before

[autumn field]

i played 1 game of yamato and jesus fuck i dont get her at all

[warped ridge]

for me she played like hyper carry but I'll admit that was 2024 and IIRC there was another way to play her at the time

hyper carries are more or less characters that scale super strongly into late game that they can carry a match. Given how her ult works, she could consistently tower dive once strong enough and secure kills with relative ease

[agile void]

depends on the time, since she got her ult changed

[warped ridge]

oh what's the ult now?

I played in 2024 where her ult was becoming unkillable and cleansing stuns or w/e it was

[agile void]

now its just a high powered state that gives her a ton of resistances and a refresher to all her skills

[rich grove]

you're also unstop the whole duration unless something changed

[agile void]

*unstoppable

[rich grove]

that is what that abbreviates to, yes

[agile void]

my friend who onetricks yamato has been complaining about shit like hollys barrels knocking them up

[rich grove]

jesus christ it used to heal on cast

yeah it's weird

[agile void]

yeah that is why the *

[rich grove]

I think regular unstoppable makes you actually immune to forced movement

idr though

it might be universal

[agile void]

you are unstoppable but there is always some weird stuff that shouldnt affect you

[rich grove]

like I don't think you can get abrams charged while unstop

as in he just phases right through you

[warped ridge]

so they...didn't change it, they just nerfed it

rip

[agile void]

still, like I said, you are supposed to be unstoppably but there is always some weird stuff that shouldnt affect you and yet still does

[warped ridge]

I was hoping for like an actual change

[agile void]

they changed it

before you technically couldnt die

now you have just a shit ton of armor

https://deadlock.wiki/Yamato/Update_history

here you can have a closer look to how it has been going

[rich grove]

it used to be pretty much a straight buff aside from the technical immortality

[warped ridge]

change would be changing the idea of the ult, it's still an ult that refreshes abilities, can help you survive situations, and ignores CC

it just does it worse now cause like you said, can be killed, and she gets affected by things that seem a bit strange

which like I'll be real, her now being killable is w/e as long as she becomes the tankiest thing in the game because if not, her ult is just ability refresh and IIRC the ability build was passable due to heroes like lash and shiv existing who just do burst damage builds like 5x better

[rich grove]

the health on cast was a stupid era

basically just second life but she's sicko mode now

[warped ridge]

unless they just buffed her abilities but IMO the ability build was fine before because ya know, ult made her unkillable

[rich grove]

she is still obscenely strong

[warped ridge]

yeah I'm okay with the nerf like I said, I just don't want her to lose out to some random tank in the game during the ult state, unless they turned around and buffed her damage to make her more a high skill ceiling hero

in which case then I'd be ok with that because then she doesn't have to be as unga as like lash or shiv because her outplay potential would be akin to zed or something

of course I'm still assuming she can be bebop combo'd like everybody else lmao

[merry verge]

Ivy keeps hers in her tail

[autumn field]

Really? How do you use her properly?

I tried playing her, even against bots, couldn’t figure out how to play her

Even at a more basic level, that is

[warped ridge]

if she's still a hyper carry you probably won't get to see how she's strong unless your team feeds you somehow or you maximize raw CS

or you run the ability damage build assuming that still exists

[rich grove]

I mean it's pretty straightforward from a micro perspective, you use 2 as your gap closer to weave in a spirit snatch, 1 them with the momentum by cancelling 2 or even just standing still after pulling up, then you can 3 or do that beforehand

and then if you're not dead you 4 and go again

[autumn field]

Huh, I see

[warped ridge]

you can also use 2 as a chase tool instead of engagement if you want

[autumn field]

I’m just not sure if I was playing wrong because it doesn’t shred as well as I expected I guess

[warped ridge]

but that requires positioning

I don't think she shreds outside of auto attack build

[rich grove]

I mean if you're fighting a team of six abrams or mos then sure

but then buy tankbuster

[autumn field]

Maybe I’m too used to doormans dealing like 1000 off two bells then a cart and ult to just delete you off the map in 2 seconds