Like, their themeing and gameplay are kinda similar
#Deadlock
edgy fog
finite patrol
well considering it's a 20s themeing a cop and a detective are pretty significantly different.
wardens backstory is also more like shiv.
I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 lifesteal cones got some more differentiation in future though
edgy fog
they do need to give Warden a bit of a vibe buff
rich grove
in my onion Shiv is similarly fighty to Warden so that makes a lot of sense
Warden is much faster but Shiv is basically in Warden ult all the time
pretty similar laning and hunter-killer play patterns though
edgy fog
Gotta keep the rage up
Keep doing damage, keep up your buff and run people down
I once laned with Shiv as a Mirage and went spirit pop build
So I would give them the debuff and stack it a few times then pop them for a chunk of damage at which point Shiv jumps in and ults
rich grove
you jungle so goddamn much as shiv
edgy fog
Even if you don't finish them you need to keep that rage up so you can just run through the jungle and throw a knife at some dude as you go by so you have your stuff when you arrive at the other lane
I always feel kinda sad when the champs just have no reason to have a gun build
like lady geist
Sure you can build gun stuff on her, but nothing is really designed for her to have a gun build
rich grove
lady geist's gun is cracked
it's not optimal because spirit itemization is stupidly strong and all her abilities got gigabuffed
edgy fog
yeah pretty much that
She has a really cool revolver
super outclassed by spirit stuff on her
like you can get the spirit shot stuff which helps but I just love the gun so much I wish it was more viable
rich grove
it's plenty viable
just not optimal
her 3 + your choice of headhunter or crippling headshot can do disgusting damage
edgy fog
I will have to give her a proper go
annie get your gun style
Do you think glass cannon is a terrible idea on Lady Geist considering she's so squishy?
like I'm always torn between "get glass cannon on a squishy because they're already squishy" and "get glass cannon on a tanky character because it's less painful for them to lose the HP"
rich grove
I think I'd go for crippling headshot and/or leech first
maybe even colossus actually
crippling headshot is probably priority 1
both leech and sus keep you big as hell and combined with your 2 should make you functionally immortal
finite patrol
malice buffs the gun as well so you should always get some gun items
rich grove
global debuff babey
finite patrol
you jungle so goddamn much as shiv
I jungled too much lol. 40min game btw
rich grove
that's what we like to see
finite patrol
in my defense most of the fights my team picked were extremely poorly chosen and we won because the enemy did not defend base no though any good work of my team (or myself) except yamato and ivy
rich grove
we did not win the game
rich grove
he was doing the hydration trick of maj leap into ult and uh
we could not do anything about it
magic summit
It's why people get it on pocket a lot
Maj leap maybe shouldn't go as far as it does
Or at least not carry your momentum with a cancel into jump so well
rich grove
screaming
rich grove
after that once-in-a-lifetime haze performance I am starting ot understand just how bad people are at closing the game out
like intellectually, I know that's one of the defining factors in why bad players (including me) are bad but after the second 3k ult in their base with the patron weakened
maybe we should've just won the game the first time???
wintry arrow
I am becoming more and more convinced that those people who say Haze is a poor laner may be full of it.
wintry arrow
And 20 shots into a spirit proc is like, fine for a short trade.
I do think a duo might ruin her day without much recourse.
But solo I think the downside is overstated.
Her and Wraith are the front of my wishlist for things that could use a tap, they seem to snowball really easily for things that peak as high as they do.
rich grove
there are a lot of characters for which the knife to melee combo is basically inviting suicide and her ult is basically useless in a solo lane after the changes
her matchups into anyone better than her at laning are basically unwinnable, but she's pretty reasonable at baseline and having a duo helps tremendously
the problem is just that she's a 500 hp character in a world where Lash, Infernus, Wraith, Mo, Abrams, etc. exist so she just fucking dies
once Lash gets grapple and 1 you legitimately just lose the lane solo
like what are you meant to do about him grappling and groundpounding you for 50% at 400 souls souls
she has no aoe, inherent sustain or real dive tool and they just removed the easiest way she had to reliably pick off her solo counterpart for overextending
mild flume
it seems like its probably worse against a strong dual lane that can burst her fast
idk the dart -> punch seemed like a lot of damage and like she got out pretty scot free when she did it to me
not that its a free lane or anything for her but its pretty strong against worse laners
jaunty garden
Yeah it is
Haze is very good vs bad laners and pretty unsalvageable vs good ones ime
But she just cannot do anything at all vs laners who can just play corners vs her and hit her with bombs
warped ridge
Haze is one of the worst laners yeah.
Her best bet to kill in lane is usually a power spike from getting her ult first.
She can throw her sleep dagger + melee but if enemy creeps are there or if they have better close range abilities they just win the trade.
If they're ranged they can just harass her indefinitely.
But ultimately denies exist so if Haze is better at playing the minigame she can come out pseudo-even by having a soul lead when her tower gets shoved in
Main thing with Haze is she was binary with her kill potential and snowbally but on the flipside the game seems very dota-ism with how snowballs happen
I think Pocket technically hard counters her cause briefcase + escape potential + infinite harass
jaunty garden
Realized I forgot to actually publish most of the Tohu builds so
That has been done now
Lmao
Seven build I made approved by Linkzer as a note
Main comment was "Ult is way more expensive than gun transition but if you're fed I can see it"
halcyon wagon
consider also some of us cant aim
jaunty garden
I mean Linkzr single click fires so he doesn't overkill anything and waste bullets
This man in pro gamer pilled
On Vindicta
magic summit
consider also some of us cant aim
I am glad that while my perma stun build was nerfed a lot it has been replaced with just throw giant basketballs down the lane and hope it kills someone
Neither requires me to click on their head
twilit roost
That's why I like Mirage ricochet + toxic bullets take pot shots at minions and you'll hit an opponent
jaunty garden
Ricochet on Mirage is a must buy for me
XD
My big problem with Mirage is that they're not Infernus
But it might be worth having them as a secondary
I just think they do very similar things regarding delayed spirit damage and safety and mobility
finite patrol
I think Ricochet is kinda situational on Mirage. you don't always need the extra push/farm if you can gank / split push effectively with just gun damage
I find I either pick it up when I am way ahead or a bit behind but at parity picking up fighting items and mobility is better
but marking people by hitting their creeps never gets old
finite patrol
like if I'm super fed I just get big damage so I kill creeps in 2 shots each and wipe em all in 2 seconds anyway
halcyon wagon
lavish grove
Seven with rapid recharge can farm several lanes and jungle packs at the same time
buoyant plank
He do be ballin
lavish grove
Also gamers, what’s up with that spirit haze build I’ve been seeing around?
Like full spirit
Gets the overwhelming spirit items and everything
rich grove
haze knife damage scales 2.8x spirit
the meme is that you knife someone, echo shard, knife them again and punch them
complete shitpost build but very funny and I guess a great way to practice your knives
lavish grove
Ohhhh
edgy fog
could you not knife, charged melee, knife, charged melee, for optimal punch
wintry arrow
Melee cooldown animation= not-totally-guranteed knife 2
finite patrol
how high can you even make that burst damage lol
rich grove
@finite patrol
also apparently you can heavy melee after the eshard, huh
cool
either that or wraith just forgor to buy debuff reducer
wintry arrow
Though that's gotta be spacing dependant.
If you're not already in melee range, it's a spicier choice.
And yeah, debuff reducer.
rich grove
another weird thing with knife is that it doesn't break invis from any source
including veilwalker and shadow weave
in theory you could do some janky stuff with stacking knife buffs like quicksilver reload or surge of power into an ult that benefits from the full duration of shadow weave's ambush buff
but it's probably just not worth it
if they ever decide haze is going to do anything other than farm for 30 minutes then press 4, I think it would be very funny to make her dagger count as a melee
finite patrol
I feel like stacking fixation for the 2.5s that takes to execute would be just as good damage with a gun build?
rich grove
to be clear this build is a complete meme
but there's some sense to the idea that you need to aim one skillshot as opposed to being good at tracking
the rest is guaranteed damage
I genuinely kept missing sleeps against the warden who was pubstomping my game because he was strafing too fast for me to throw the knife where he was moving
let alone actually shooting him
jaunty garden
either that or wraith just forgor to buy debuff reducer
Lots of people never make it tbh
rich grove
spirit meta is crowding the shit out of my slots
finite patrol
I'd love to buy debuff reducer every game but I ain't got room
rich grove
haze in general is just sort of strapped on flex slots because she has zero benefit from spirit but needs to buy thirty orange items to play the game
so unfortunately green items tend to be the first to go
I do try to make spirit armor/debuff reducer high prio buys though
finite patrol
fixation should scale with Spirit power
rich grove
the proc you get for hitting 20 bullets does work
but as soon as you hit max stacks that's all the spirit damage you get
it's part of the reason why I think people are moving to tesla bullets as a core 3k item
finite patrol
I'm surprised I don't see cold front on haze that often
rich grove
gives you base fire rate + a source of sprit scaling that doesn't cap out at 4 procs
I think people are just very scared of haze
finite patrol
I was when I started playing but now I consider her one of the weakest
rich grove
they've mostly realised that staying out of ult in the first place is the easiest counterplay, so people generally back wayyyyy up
her guns also don't have the greatest falloff range, running people down is actually a struggle sometimes
hence burst fire's and even heroic aura's popularity as well
- slowing hex if you're a ganking haze
it was really really sad playing the haze/warden matchup from the other side I can tell you that much haha
I'd just be minding my own business cleaning up lanes and then I'd hear the warden shield WOOOP
finite patrol
warden if your quick
rich grove
slowing hex + -1 stam from flask + veilwalker + fleetfoot + L + ratio + sleep doesn't interrupt last stand dumbass
a fact that I eagerly support when I am playing warden and one that I am mailing icefrog to remove when I am haze
always pretty funny to see the cone moving on its own as he lies on the floor in family guy death pose
finite patrol
Last stand is so fucking weird
rich grove
it swings between feeling like the worst ult in the game and an uncounterable menace
the 2s unreduceable channel time is bad. but the lifesteal... the lifesteal is very good
especially on the maj leap divebomb build
finite patrol
the lifesteal and damage is ridiculous
rich grove
of the 27 kills that one pubstomping warden had, I think a solid fifteen of them were just from ulting
for reference everyone had healbane in that game and I had toxic bullets, and I still could not counter his ult with mine
as haze
he just tanked that shit
once it's gone off there's also just very few things in the game that actually deal with it
finite patrol
I do kinda hope it gets reworked
rich grove
you have to run away from a cone the size of a football field, centered on a man moving at the speed of sond
I like warden's neutral game a lot and I think he's a very fair and fun character from both sides of the coin outside of ult
like do I get shit on as haze outta nowhere, yeah, but that's what a roamer does
finite patrol
yeah 1 2 and 3 are a cool kit
rich grove
it's cool that he can run around the map at lightspeed and gank anything at any time
and it's super rewarding being able to shred people with his gun
finite patrol
I've started getting fortitude with the veilwalker build lol it's amusing
rich grove
the ult is just a little much rn for how little actually stops it
finite patrol
also the issue of it being very similar to Abrams lifesteal cone which leika mentioned is not nothing
rich grove
the game could probably use less "my ult is a damaging aoe centered around me"
I would much prefer haze's ult get changed to something like soldier's aimbot from ow to differentiate it from warden's and seven's
finite patrol
Yeah big part of why I like Mirage is his kit is pretty unique out of the game
finite patrol
the game could probably use less "my ult is a damaging aoe centered around me"
But Abrams, Dynamo, Haze, Infernus, Pocket, Seven, Viscous, and Warden all fit this template. and that's more than 1/3 of the heroes in the game rn
rich grove
I don't mind it so much with the one-shot ults like Infernus and Pocket, Viscous is also just more annoying/CC-focussed than actually damaging
near current
new patch!
- Urn now reveals you after 20s from initial pickup
- Urn sprint changed from +3/5 for winning/losing team to +2/6
- First flex slot is now granted after 3 Guardians die instead of 4
- Base kill bounty reduced from 225 to 150 (still scales to 1400 over time)
- Respawn time at 20 minutes reduced from 45s to 40s
- T3 Golden Statues spawn time moved from 25 min to 30 min
- Range to attack lane Guardians increased from 19m to 20m
- Seven: Lightning Ball T3 reduced from +2m Radius to +1m
- Shiv: Rage decay rate increased from 0.25 to 0.3
- Shiv: Rage buffer duration reduced from 12s to 10s
what come on
i just pick up shiv and they tune down the buff where they overtuned him
like the guardian flex slot change that's huge
rich grove
yeah there are a number of games I've had where we just get choked on flexes and lose the game off that
making it a little more forgiving to get that first flex item at least is much appreciated
who wants to see warden committing felony robbery
finite patrol
not sure about that urn change. on the one hand it makes it a lot easier to gun it. but on the other hand it makes it a lot easier for me to gun it
rich grove
I genuinely didn't realise there was a difference in urn sprint speed buff between losing/winning teams
near current
me neither but thats a pretty cool way of balancing it
rich grove
6m/s sprint speed is a fuckton
this is a nice way of making it a bit more of a catchup mechanic for those awkward downtimes where you've won a fight or got a pick but can't safely engage mid or walkers
there've been a lot of games I've played recently where we'll just sort of hang around after getting a pick on a much stronger team
frail jasper
who wants to see warden committing felony robbery
delicious irony...
finite patrol
the range of guardian attack is welcome it was annoying how poorly demarcated the attack zone was
should line up better with the ramp now
near current
what the fuck is a meter!!
rich grove
-warden
rich grove
the speed of light
agile void
like the guardian flex slot change that's huge
Yeah, before You would see teams focusing hard on defending one lane to stop you from getting slots
now the focus is split even more with this change, imagine if its like purple and green or there is a lane of separation between the guardians
its going to motivate even more splitpushing
finite patrol
yeah you can usually hold on to one of the middle two guardians for an unreasonably long time if you have a lead and good wave push it's pretty fucking hard to come back from
rich grove
removing more nongames in a moba sounds good to me
finite patrol
new patch!
```
- Urn now reveals you after 20s from initial pickup
- Urn sprint ...
oh I just realized the kill bounty change is pretty huge here. 2 troopers of swing instead of 3 at 0min
rich grove
that's not how that dire straits song goes
finite patrol
no there were a lot more slurs in it iirc so I left those out
rich grove
lavish grove
I’m seeing bebop’s double bomb themselves and then run at people with phantom strike
edgy fog
put them on your shiv
If you put them on a character who is jello cubed do they still go off?
rich grove
I think so
rich grove
I'm imagining that one animation from satisfactory that plays when you try to drink coffee
where it just splashes on your helmet
pancake hits his little dome head and slides off it with a loud squeak
edgy fog
Ivy and Dynamo at Denny's is a good scene because I feel like they're both from different places but would find some strange things in common
Like, if anyone was going to speak spanish to Ivy I would think it would be Dynamo
Or they'd wind up talking about polishes because they don't have regular skin and have their own treatments
jaunty garden
Oh they changed berserker
edgy fog
Oh?
rich grove
?
finite patrol
?
magic summit
2 and 0 so far in ranked
I am surprised it instantly matched me against people that seem of equal skill, thought it would be like Dota where your normal queue mmr and ranked mmr are completely separate
jaunty garden
They probably are
But they seeded your ranked MMR with your solo queue MMR probably
magic summit
finite patrol
fair dagger
so
i'm not very good at deadlock right now, which is only natural i'm still pretty new to mobas
what are the top 5 skills i should learn to improve the most? im decent with aiming, but i need to learn stuff like how to stay ahead with souls because i'm getting lapped by the enemy team
i know about securing souls, i know meleeing an enemy auto captures the soul, i know about DENYing souls especially on guardians and walkers
magic summit
Have you played a moba before
fair dagger
just Smite
magic summit
Alright, sadly I don't know smite terms or meta but as a general catch all tip I would give is reduce dead time between objectives
Objectives in this case can be just catching a creep wave or doing a camp
finite patrol
its super important to learn jungle camps and crate/statue locations and smack em when you can between clearing waves in lane. its very important not to miss troopers as they are the most efficient gold for much of the game.
lavish grove
-
Confirming and denying souls. Laning phase really does come down to who’s better at this a lot of the time, if you’re good at it you can quickly rack up a major lead in laning phase
-
How to farm efficiently. Learn how to route jungle camps while still farming lanes.
-
Macro strategy. When to push, when to fall back, when to take objectives. You should ideally know generally if you and the teammates you’re with can take a fight or not and work off that.
-
Movement. This game’s movement is actually in depth, and learning the ins and outs can radically change your ability to take fights compared to more stationary opponents.
fair dagger
sweet, i'll prioritize learning those skills, thanks yall!
lavish grove
I will say being able to aim good does genuinely get you far
Just hitting your shots will give you the edge in a lot of fights
Especially early on
finite patrol
also practice dash jump, dash jump into slide, and dash into slide
Deadlock Movement Guide
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yfPHJsMrKcg_8wqa95qu0sOFxRdzKLF_eUWOZX7RLHc/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.aljsuq1syn2s
@rich grove could u pls pin this^
rich grove
__Deadlock Movement Guide__
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yfPHJsMrKcg_8wqa...
IT IS DONE
finite patrol
I just found out that you can double heavy melee with fleetfoot holy shit
rich grove
HUH?
magic summit
I would put money on that being patched out before long
magic summit
I am hazarding a guess that melee shenanigans like it may just end up being a reoccurring bug that keeps creeping in
Like how every dota major patch breaks Hand of Midas
rich grove
did we win this game
finite patrol
my favourite thing about mirage is that I can always see ways I could have played better
how did you lose? just not able to close it out?
rich grove
the rest of our team was just getting farmed so it was impossible to take a fight
wintry arrow
Lash has great burst, great initiation, great mobility...but the man just does not have the power to kill a built-out tank like Haze or some of the other sustained carries do.
Sometimes you ult, combo, start left clicking people and just gotta hope for the best.
fair dagger
just played a round as Lash and went like, 1 kill, 12 deaths
that game was a complete nightmare
kelvin was laning with ivy, i wanted to switch lanes with kelvin and he completely ignored me. the entire team completely ignored me even when my lane was getting pushed by 2-3 people.
rich grove
played some infernus
it turns out that playing infernus is basically the same thing as playing haze
top fragged, space created, steamrolled, no sweat
finite patrol
infernus is good though
rich grove
yeah it's like playing haze but you have 6000 hp at the cost of not being able to press 4 as often
I could've probably used ult more proactively honestly but just shooting people with thirty dots + using quicksilver reload on catalyst is good enough
aim at the mans and they die
occasionally run away with flame dash
👍
jaunty garden
Yeah
magic summit
I like using ult as my "fuck off" button
Really dissuades a Geist or someone from sitting on you if you show a willingness to instantly self destruct at any threat
wintry arrow
There's also some teams that really disrespect what exposure does to your defenses sitting on the flame dash fire-carpet.
Which is wrong.
rich grove
MY MAIN GOAL
IS TO BLOW UP
lavish grove
lavish grove
Anyone feel like que times have gotten longer?
I know the game isn’t losing players or anything but like, que times feel longer still
lavish grove
Alright
magic summit
They regularly do stealth changes to match making
So sometimes it gets fucked
Like half of Yoshi's messages the last month in the discord are "Hey, anyone having issues with matchmaking? Testing a thing recently"
lavish grove
I see
lavish grove
Man, I really don’t like how common it is for people to just switch lanes when they’re losing
I’ve been abandoned so many times and moved into so many times
edgy fog
Even in bot games people will just either straight leave their lane or disconnect
lavish grove
It’s really annoying because it doesn’t even help when they move into your lane
All it tends to do is attract the entire enemy team to come over
frail jasper
Blessed is ranked matchmaking where people actually play and coordinate to win instead of being six individuals mutely shooting around each other
edgy fog
When is a good time to move over do you think? After pushing down your first guardian?
finite patrol
rotate for ganks or after you pushed the tower down. I feel like after 8min soul change every lane should probably go solo and the 2 spare heroes should be perma rotating / jungling
jaunty garden
Man, I really don’t like how common it is for people to just switch lanes when t...
I mean it's often correct but the things is that you should be switching not just moving over usually
edgy fog
oh god
something happened with the game lobby
lash and I were meleeing at each other
suddenly I was no longer stuck to the floor and I lunged at the friendly Lash while his health bar appeared
I thought I was about to clobber my teammate
lavish grove
pocket gaming
finite patrol
fucked up and evil team comp
lavish grove
A bit
rich grove
"oooh just you wait til I get going" ass team comp
finite patrol
everyone there except haze is a lane bully too
jaunty garden
I feel like every game I'm in someone goes like 0-10
I'm really interested in what the game might look like outside of that
finite patrol
12 players is a lot of room to have an 0-10
rich grove
if I'm playing someone like goo I'll have the occasional 0 kill game just because of the character archetype and my favoured builds
I try to do a bit more than 5000 damage in 28 minutes though
finite patrol
finite patrol
https://fxtwitter.com/faelions/status/1846461075597770760
ivy after the evanescence concert
short quiver
So how is ranked?
magic summit
There's nothing changed from normal mode
So it's the same but people talk more
Makes me feel bad for being a mute but I feel I ping enough
mild flume
I look forward to loud australian men shouting at me to get in mid
rich grove
healing nearly as much as dynamo, certified lady geist moment
magic summit
Twitter
edgy fog
Geist is wrecking my shit as I'm trying out Seven
I go "oh no" and die
I look and her entire team is just fricking disconnected
Win by 6v2
edgy fog
Giving Seven a good try
deeeefinitely easier to lane than most
Also, I feel I did what I needed as Ivy
Playin tha game
wintry arrow
I find it hard to put them ahead of Viscous or Kevin in lanining
Geist maybe, Seven nah.
edgy fog
Doing my best to survive
jaunty garden
Viscous is nuts
Seven hard beats people byu pure shoving the lane not by killing them
So he can negate hard lanes
Even when he can't win
Just by balling minions
edgy fog
yeah I realised I was having difficulty ending people so I'd often either bully them out of lane or just hard push and concentrate shooting on confirms
lavish grove
Honestly I feel like the best person at actually killing in lane is probably Abrams
If your opponent plays sloppy you can easily 2 them and just, chunk them for a shit ton
finite patrol
seven also has ridiculous base hp regen so he's impossible to attrition
edgy fog
Do you think that an Ivy melee/spirit build could work?
because when you land with your gargoyle butt slam everyone's usually stunned enough to get a heavy melee off
wintry arrow
Character lacks the tank stats to want to be close, and debuff reducer exists.
You're probably better off building for kudzu bombs or that ridiculous RPM gun, and maybe scaling melee on accident in the latter.
jaunty garden
Updated Tohu Seven
With better formatting and hopefully more clear info
Removed the "ult transition" since it was mostly pointless
wintry arrow
Seems legit, though even with Resto shot I feel like I might want one more green item, maybe stamina.
magic summit
What would you even put Mystic Reverb on with seven
wintry arrow
Stun, I'm guessing.
Free tag on anyone they group catch with, and is a single reasonably sized hit.
magic summit
That's a lot of money for something that isn't even strong enough to proc mystic burst
That the slow effect is replicated on mystic slow
I guess the passive stats for it but still. Lotta money
wintry arrow
Yeah, I'm not totally sold on it here either, but I do think stun fits it best.
Unless I'm just not thinking about something clearly.
rich grove
do people not just put it on 🅱️all or am I tripping
wintry arrow
Reverb on multi-tick moves seems sad.
rich grove
you just do it to spam damage + slow across the entire team
wintry arrow
That seems really expensive for that level of damage.
Given the internal cooldown means mystic is hitting for 40% of beans.
rich grove
hey I'm not suggesting you buy it when you can just eshard instead
I've just never seen it on stun when I'm facing down seven
just building for max annoyance and I guess EE procs
wintry arrow
Mystic is just such a strange item.
Because the counterplay to getting hit by AoE characters is already scatter.
It's good on big single target nuking abilities.
But those characters don't really want more spread damage, they want MORE nuke.
Mystic reverb, I mean.
jaunty garden
Reverb is mostly about the stats, but yeah you put it on 2
I was trying echo shard on 2 out a lot and ended up deciding I liked Reverb on 2 better
15% abilty range is more than half what just improved reach does for all but the non-focus abilities
I also tend to get the other two spirit resist items first but sometimes even that isn't enough
I usually haven't found I need more than that amount of green early
rich grove
are there other spirit resists or do you just mean ench barrier
spirit being 95% of my incoming damage total is basically every game nowadays
rich grove
oh you're talking about a specific build
jaunty garden
And EE and Refresher both also give spirit resist
jaunty garden
Yeah they're talking about this
To be clear, this is "If I have IMproved Spirit Armor, Pristine Emblem, EE, Refresher, and I still need more spirit resist, Mystic Reverb is the answer maybe"
I suppose it's more appropriate to say I swapped Refresher instead of Echo Shard
Second round of all of your balls is nice
XD
Way longer cd sure
magic summit
Because the counterplay to getting hit by AoE characters is already scatter.
I've honestly always seen the aoe damage as more just a nice add on to the extra damage tick
Like Grey Talon getting it with full spirit build the reverb actually hits hard and then sets up the next shot well
jaunty garden
Yeah, although again at the point I'm getting it, I'm looking at "15% spirit resistance? Is there a better place I can get this? No?"
magic summit
That's a lotta money for that
finite patrol
probably why it's last in the spirit resist section
edgy fog
I don't know why people don't hit the objectives
buoyant plank
I had a match the other day with two of the other team having zero on obj damage
Somehow not surprised we won that when I saw that
edgy fog
to get 0 they MUST have been shooting towers from outside the range
not noticing they weren't doing damage
rich grove
buttsliding and for what
edgy fog
butt damage
jaunty garden
probably why it's last in the spirit resist section
Yep. I almost never buy it.
lavish grove
Hmm, y’all think duration is worth it with pocket?
It only really helps the ult but pocket ult is pretty great
rich grove
don't you also case for longer
finite patrol
if it affects coat range it sounds good to me
but I feel like you have so many better things to buy
it does affect spirit barrage Amp duration which is quite nice
wintry arrow
Duration's fine.
You need lots of purples on Pocket.
But like, if you have the slots it's a nice boost in the minor slot. The 3k version I'm probably side eying until pretty late though.
magic summit
I don't get duration for a while
It does in fact affect cloak duration
And everything you do can get benefit from it
But I don't usually buy it until a few other core items in
rich grove
definitely doesn't seem worth getting as a 3k instead of Our Lord And Savior The Best 3K Item In The Game Majestic Leap
magic summit
So, the 3k version it worth getting at some point for a specific reason
When E Shift was changed to not be cancelable anymore, it was a nerf to pocket since they couldn't cloak and e shift escape
But now that the e shift duration doesn't scale, if you cloak and e shift you can still do it if you put Superior Duration on cloak
lavish grove
Y’all think torment pulse is worth it on lash?
edgy fog
While not the most powerful compared to people who are hella tanky your ability to schmovement around people makes it pretty darn useful
I wouldn't super focus it but if you're finding people aren't respecting your schmovement it can be cool
lavish grove
Yah I was thinking it for a flex slot anyway
rich grove
probably not worth it
especially not on the builds where you're just focussed on annihilating people from deep space
if you're getting in and getting out then torment pulse does nothing for you except make your jungling marginally better
edgy fog
Weird question but does stuff like... double up? Like how Seven basically can give themselves the tesla bullets. Can you tesla bullets while doing the Seven thing for double electric bullshit?
edgy fog
I unno, that's why I was asking
rich grove
it's not like it says "seven gains a copy of the item tesla bullets"
edgy fog
Wonder if it's good on them.
rich grove
easier just to ballmax or invest in so much spirit that you get 100% uptime
tesla probably fine before you hit that point though, just sell it later
lavish grove
So is there any benefit for echo shard vs refresher?
Refresher just gives you all your cooldowns back instead of just your last one
rich grove
...echo shard is on an 18s cooldown instead of a 240s cooldown?
rich grove
?????????
lavish grove
Sorry typo I just didn’t look at the cooldowns
jaunty garden
Wonder if it's good on them.
Yes I get it on them a lot
It's the best attack speed item in the game for its price
In a lot of ways
Tesla is usually my first item for the Gun Transition
Since you want to go Maximum Ball and then build a bunch of gun on the back end
Burst Fire is fine too, but Burst Fire has more wrapped up in the weapon damage
As where you're getting EE and stuff so spreading more ticks of spirit damage is great for you
rich grove
even Haze builds will occasionally dip Tesla nowadays for the fire rate + farm efficiency
jaunty garden
Yah it's just generically useful if you don't want to pick up a Ricochet but want better farming too
rich grove
less necessary on Seven since it patches much deeper holes in Haze's gameplan than Seven's
jaunty garden
I feel like Ricochet is great on Haze tho' since you get to spread stacks to new targets?
jaunty garden
True
rich grove
I yap a lot about haze itemization because frankly that's the most interesting thing about the character
jaunty garden
TBH I just played a game of Warden and I legit do not understand why you would ever play Haze instead of Warden if all you want to do is press 4
rich grove
the current build philosophy seems pretty split between investing in 1250s like slowing hex/kinetic dash for early ganks/m1 plays, vs just going straight for rico once you have active reload/qsr for jungling
lowkey you're spitting but nobody at my dogshit ELO has read the item descriptions for return fire or metal skin
so it's still free
eventually people will learn how to sideboard for haze
jaunty garden
Like pressing 4 after the Lord and Savior Of Big Jumps is just so nuts
rich grove
it's insane just how free it is earlygame
jaunty garden
I mean it never gets worse either
rich grove
later it's just a bit harder to run some characters down
it was pretty sad 1v1ing an ulting warden with my own ult as haze
with lucky shot
and still losing
jaunty garden
Also IDK about it being hard to run people down
rich grove
it's more likely people don't have the biggest CC setups built yet
rich grove
if mystic reverb/suppressor/curse/etc aren't flying around like they are lategame it's a bit more of a pain
but I mean
god knows warden can go very, very fast
jaunty garden
Yeah
rich grove
it goes from 'difficult but occasionally doable' to straight up impossible earlygame
jaunty garden
That's the thing mostly is you don't slow them down so much is you just GO FAST
While holding down left click
That's another thing that is nuts ofc, is that Warden gets to SHOOT while his ult is going off
rich grove
you just cannot possibly outrun him from 10-20k souls but by then he's already got maj leap
so that's ggs
div barrier giving the speed boost is also crazy crazy powerful for the run it down wardens
jaunty garden
.>
I get Maj Leap with my 3-6k gold
You have it basically immediately as you're getting 6
For ult
And just run into one of the duo lanes and maj leap ult them
rich grove
yeah I just don't think you can make a serious effort at outrunning him til like... 30k of investment on your end
jaunty garden
To be fair, the game SHOULD be basically over by then
rich grove
good luck living through it either because even with big spirit shield
hooo wee
it does Damage
jaunty garden
This is my current build, modified off of the Hydration ult rush build
You uh, just rush points in ult
Refresher just wins games with him
rich grove
very yucky, I approve
jaunty garden
You Maj Leap in with an ult, they scramble and run away or die and so you get a winning teamfight, and then they try to reengage and you just Refresher and ult again
rich grove
with all the CDR on the regular hydration build it feels genuinely criminal how often you can ult
jaunty garden
Yep
rich grove
refresher for just double-tapping a teamfight also good for the same reason
reaaaaaally make sure you wipe the team
jaunty garden
This one can ult less often yeah
But it's SO nasty
And Refresher as second 6200 after Diviner just
People don't expect it
rich grove
the number of times I've verbatim said "oh he's out of ult, we can go in"
if I had just forgotten to scope the enemy warden's loadout I would have absolutely been cooked by it
jaunty garden
The only thing that's sad is you don't get to proc Kevlar again usually
Since Refresher doesn't work for item cds I think
rich grove
don't think so
I'm not even sure off-hand if it refreshes other item cds but I would suspect not
jaunty garden
It doesn't I believe.
But yeah the goal is you just kinda win the game before people mostly have 30k each, but if you don't, who cares, you're warden, it's not like you ever stop scaling
Oh! I had someone actually buy knockdown vs me as Seven today
It was very sad
jaunty garden
Yeah I just
Threw more balls at them
It DID stop me ulting but like, I'd never ult except for when I was out of everythig else anyway so
It was fine
rich grove
yeah it's weird that they released a hero with three abilities
kind of early to be doing that kind of screw with the format imo but it's icefrog
so who am I to say really
they're really good abilities so I'm not complaining, it's just sort of odd
jaunty garden
I mean the ult isn't bad IMO
It's just not like, really an ult anymore
You DO use it if the enemy team is shooting you with bullets a lot
Because the +35% bullet resist is nice
So you just slam 124
(This is why Seven ult tends to just beat Haze ult too btw)
(It just gets +35% bullet resist on it)
lavish grove
Man, what do I do with lash when Slam is on cooldown?
jaunty garden
Run away
lavish grove
I always feel like I can’t do anything besides dodge
jaunty garden
Lash is hit and run
You just yoink people into the sky, into your team, land on them
And that's your job
Done
lavish grove
Oh
rich grove
I favor 3 builds with Lash in part because you get to actually hang around in fights longer
but you're not Infernus, you're not intended to hang around a teamfight for six years
jaunty garden
Yeah, the reason you take lash is his insane ganks and his ability to make picks with ult
Enemy defending a tower? Hit 4 and make them abandon it
Enemy pushing your tower? Hit 4 and make them abandon it
rich grove
you dive in off a building and deal a fat chunk of damage to either get someone lit or kill them outright, you optionally shoot a couple more people, then you git
jaunty garden
Optimally you make most of them abandon it but you snag at least one person with 4, toss them into your team and hit them as they land with slam
And they're CC'd long enough your team just kills them, not to mention your own burst is pretty stronk
But then yeah, you uh. You just go find someplace high up and try to do it again, or go push a sidelane or something
XD
Let your team use the numbers advantage
rich grove
3 builds let you spam flog a couple times in between diving people, but using all your resources to engage and leaving none to escape usually => a Lash who is feeding
lavish grove
I’m fighting a seven with 40K souls by 30 minutes
What the fuck
Genuinely how do you power farm that hard?
jaunty garden
When you have the third tier of ball you can just drop ball on small and medium camps and walk away
It solo kills them
So you just pass by camps and hit 1 and go to the next one
lavish grove
Ohhh
rich grove
yeah seven is probably the best farmer in the game
jaunty garden
You actually tend to NOT want to fight mid game because you want to run from camp to camp as fast as possible
Because mostly the cooldown on your 1 is your biggest limiter on clearing camps
rich grove
1 and 3 are incredible tools for soaking up farm anywhere at an insane rate
jaunty garden
You can farm 2 lanes and most of the jungle at the same time
While your team pushes in on 2 different lanes
rich grove
pop an entire wave with 3, sprint off to a camp, 1 it, sprint off to the next lane, insta-clear it again
just unhinging his jaw and devouring economies whole
jaunty garden
Like if the enemy sits around, sure, they might get more souls from the wave
Since you're not gonna sit around and pop the ghosts
But they'll just be sitting there not able to push your towers while your team has a man advantage on the other side of the map AND you're farmingt he jungle
near current
man yamato is sooo rewarding
rich grove
good yamato players look like they are piloting a completely different character than i am
i considered picking her up for a bit but i already play one goofy high-execution character
near current
unfortunately last game i glitched through the map and lost a kill then died
but the rest was good!
magic summit
unfortunately last game i glitched through the map and lost a kill then died
I have the opposite problem where I have clipped through the top of the map twice and got stuck up there
lavish grove
Hmm, I’m starting to think my worst trait is that I tend to fall off near the mid game
I always feel behind on souls and kills
near current
how is ranked for yall so far
magic summit
There's nothing changed from normal mode
This
mild flume
I have been kinda thinking about torment pulse on dynamo
its free extra ulti damage if you do a marginal one
and you just kinda exist around people not doing that much damage a lot unless you build for it
rich grove
a slight mismatch here
jaunty garden
@mild flume can probably fit it in the support builds
You wouldn't want it in the gun builds
agile void
...
Im gonna guess that red thing is the "for some reason has a really big amount of porn fanart" of Dota, right?
buoyant plank
wasn't it mostly that one that speaks in reverse for the early days of dota2
finite patrol
a slight mismatch here
I like that they have 5 kills but your team has 6 deaths
magic summit
Im gonna guess that red thing is the "for some reason has a really big amount of...
That is Dark Willow, who has an infamous very horny copypasta about her. And has some of the most porn.
jaunty garden
I see dark willow and I still think Buffy
agile void
That is Dark Willow, who has an infamous very horny copypasta about her. And has...
ok so not far off
halcyon wagon
based s****poi
rich grove
@mild flume having seen some earthshaker gameplay i now understand why you should never ever let mcginnis place her wall in the direction she’s facing
mild flume
yeah
though tbh his wall is a small part of his kit
now
mostly he fucking hits you with a big stick and smacks people at you
lavish grove
It’s so funny how big Haze’s magazine gets with the magazine upgrades
Legitimately she gets a LMG late game
lavish grove
I AM ONE WITH THE CURRENT
finite patrol
balling
near current
5-2 on ranked babyy
finite patrol
very nice
near current
im tryna guess if i should play more or just see what rank i get
finite patrol
does it not require a certain number of matches?
upbeat perch
buoyant plank
I AM ONE WITH THE CURRENT
What are the current affairs then :v
near current
does it not require a certain number of matches?
just 7
finite patrol
is that the real twistedgears
rich grove
?
finite patrol
a prominent scp wiki author
thick walrus
:)
rich grove
:)
buoyant plank
The two types of deadlock names
rich grove
afk?
late but no he just kept running straight at us and getting fucked
we would wombo combo dynamo stomp + goo punch + 1 and just paste him in lane
he was not much better when the rest of the team got in on it
finite patrol
probably his first game or something
finite patrol
ough we got wiped except Dynamo and mcginnis. enemy team are fighting mid boss real slow cus haze isn't with em. Dynamo sneaks around with veilwalker fleet foot surge and comes from behind catches 4 in singularity which mcginnis uses to steal rejuv and start barraging and kills all 4 of them. the haze ults at this point and kills mcginnis but the rest of our team had respawned and we wiped them all and won
rich grove
ARE YOU KIDDING ME
THEY TURN IT AROUND
buoyant plank
Dynamo hole just feels horrible to be caught in lategame when you're winning
one of the few ults that can truly turn around a game I feel
Also speaking of mcginnis ult I found out something really funny yesterday
The slow during her ult is considered a debuff, you can clear it with debuff remover and just chase people down hard
finite patrol
lol amazing
buoyant plank
and the ult is balanced around being able to just outrun her, so it just becomes incredibly busted
finite patrol
well you can also just go right up next to her
buoyant plank
which this also counters cause she can back up as fast as you now
finite patrol
seems a bit gimmicky ngl
buoyant plank
It's a really good combination of being really good for your ult, and also just, really good to deal with other shit the enemy team might have
like if you get double bombed by bebop just debuff remover and it clears both bombs
it's so rude
it's honestly an item people don't build enough
warm sonnet
I don't think there's any one enemy line-up where it won't be useful
finite patrol
Yeah it's really good to the point where using it on your ult feels wasteful I guess?
lavish grove
So like, is it worth it to build tank on shiv?
jaunty garden
Yes after spirit
A little at the same time as spirit
He has to go in to do anything but toss daggers
And he has no natural defense mechanics besides I guess you can kinda dodge with 2? 3 lets you delay damage but it synergizes with HP since the more HP you get the more damage you can clear
lavish grove
Alright
buoyant plank
Yeah it's really good to the point where using it on your ult feels wasteful I g...
Not saying you should use it every time you ult, but it allows you to chase with your ult
near current
anyone wanna game
pulsar bison
lmao
finite patrol
lavish grove
I really like playing lash but ngl I really don’t like solo laning with him
He does solid damage but it never feels like enough to actually secure kills
Even when you’re coming from really high up
jaunty garden
Yeah he's not really a solo laner
If you solo laning your goal is to get space and then go fuck up the nearby double lane
lavish grove
Yah I always feel like I can at most go even with my opponent
finite patrol
definitely one of those heroes you should ask to swap to a duo if possible.
jaunty garden
Yeah his major usefulness is his ability to set up other people for kills
lavish grove
Also like, maybe this is just me because I tend to not build gun upgrades on lash except like, high velocity
But god his turret damage is bad
finite patrol
dont build gun upgrades, have bad turret damage. no. it must be the children that are wrong.
lavish grove
I mean I assumed it was me yah
But like, I really hate gun upgrades on lash
They all feel terrible
I just wanna build spirit
lavish grove
Oh I mean yah I more meant like, the early gun upgrades
Close quarters, basic magazine
Stuff like that
I love warp stone and fleet foot on him
finite patrol
close quarters does seem good on him
when in doubt just pick up hollow point ward headshot booster
lavish grove
Fair yah
lavish grove
TRUE
rich grove
its not usually that shrimple but if you want a gun upgrade that makes you better against towers
it actually is that shrimple
just a free +25% for 500
jaunty garden
Yeah
Monster Rounds is great
Lash also likes to jungle some
It obfuscates when you're ganking
And it's just great for that too
rich grove
the "I am losing lane, I'm in danger" loadout is monster rounds, extra regen, healing rite and honorable mention goes to hollow-point ward for the randomly enormous spirit shield
jaunty garden
I don't like Rite much personally but
I do understand it
I like healing shot or whatever mostly better
rich grove
resto shot is pretty good generally and mandatory to broken on shotgun characters
I like it much less on someone like haze because it'll pop up randomly in the middle of a spray transfer and that's 40 hp lost to the void
buoyant plank
Monster rounds is just comfy tbh
rich grove
but if you're gonna be placing shots carefully anyway it's pretty easy to clip your opponent for 4 damage and get 40 hp
buoyant plank
it's effectively more ammo too
rich grove
yeah
I buy it a lot on characters who need the help with CS like mirage or geist even if I'm winning
buoyant plank
famously needing help in lane, mirage :v
rich grove
both of these characters are disgusting in lane but that's largely because their opponents spend every waking moment at 30%
the hard hitting one-bullet archetype of gun tends to be pretty miz at cs/denial unless you've been hitting the kovaaks
buoyant plank
If the opponent is cowering in a corner they can't contest you punching creeps :v
rich grove
there are also really awkward breakpoints sometimes where you have to dump a third of your clip into one guy
and then one bullet on top for the confirm and you end up killing two whole creeps with one mag
jaunty garden
Yeah resto shot on geist is one of my top items
I miss the spirit last hit item being good tbh
rich grove
scav was so busted
i remember seeing it in haze builds and being confused til i had a 60 round mag at 2 minutes in lane
rich grove
i think it would make so many of the obnoxious spirit builds even more obnoxious early but its hard to say thats the fault of scav
"oh man infernus would be sooo nuts in lane with this unnerfed" says I, painfully aware he remains nuts with it nerfed anyway
rich grove
it was kind of insane that a 500 item could give you like 40% of your spirit into mid-late though
finite patrol
rite is too easy to pop if you're losing lane
finite patrol
whenever i do shiv melee build im always astonished at how much damage the heavy melee deals
rich grove
I got punched for 886 damage as haze in the middle of ult and instantly died
finite patrol
as is his right
finite patrol
rage +25% boost, hunters aura, spirit strike, lifestrike, heavy charge, colossus
magic summit
Also like, maybe this is just me because I tend to not build gun upgrades on las...
Gun damage is how you secure kills. You go early gun damage and transition into spirit. Kinetic dash, close quarters, hollow point, point blank are all good on him
Two of which help with stamina
They did also neef his base gun damage a month ago
I think a month.
I agree with the solo lane being harder for the fact that his heal is better against multi targets and the middle duo lanes both give him time to climb up for his 1 and there are more things to sit on top of
rich grove
i'm gonna recommend headshot booster over close quarters, both because a) lash really wants to fight in the open where people can run out of cq and b) because headhunter is broken
strongly agree with everything else though
wintry arrow
I lean CQ, because clicking heads is hard.
I'm playing mash to divekick, not to pay attention.
.....I meant Lash, but I stand by that typo, actually.
rich grove
“I’m playing Mashle to divekick”
edgy fog
lavish grove
magic summit
rich grove
WHERE DID HE GO
this is what happens when a demon attacks you while you're sleeping but you're entirely under the covers
pulsar bison
i like the infernus getting that heated 12 minutes in
rich grove
posting through it
rich grove
"what is this sassy gay lost child doing here"
also they unnerfed pocket's haircut, add another one to the list
finite patrol
rich grove
yeah see this is the realistic nonbinary representation we need from valve
finite patrol
when you go to the barber and ask for a little off the side and they give you a fade
rich grove
this isn't a fade this is a whole multiply layer
cloud shuttle
actively retconning the haircut of my blorbo because it sucks
magic summit
i like the infernus getting that heated 12 minutes in
Oh he was salty through the whole game
Was throwing out slurs in laning stage
rich grove
🗿
magic summit
Dude was going on fucking rants the whole game
finite patrol
i mean to be fair if your infernus is not getting heated he's doing something wrong
ouch though
magic summit
We won the game but I am a bit sad that I gave Infernus a win and made the Abrams lose
finite patrol
im happy to report i got myself out of whatever cursed trench i kept seeing slurs posted in
twilit roost
I've somehow only seen slurs once in all my games, not sure what that means for me elo wise
finite patrol
i dont think it's tied to elo lol
i feel like i got banished to the asshole realm for teabagging or something because everyone was a prick for a solid week and a half
magic summit
My experience with the multiple moba games I've played is that you would be surprised at how pissy people will get about minor problems while also being a top 500 player
twilit roost
i feel like i got banished to the asshole realm for teabagging or something beca...
that's wild it does sound like you got banished to hell que
rich grove
there was a seven in my games called "COMMS BANNED"
he was not ping banned
as he would frequently let us know
magic summit
I still maintain a proud record of never having infractions in games except for when I kept disconnecting from league games in high school because of my shitty integrated graphics pc
Saying that, if league had the same toxic voice line spam that Dota does I would have pretty rapidly become the joker there
finite patrol
I've never gotten banned for being a shithead before but it sure felt like i had been put into the pit for a hot minute
twilit roost
played too well and got mass reported
mild flume
Saying that, if league had the same toxic voice line spam that Dota does I would...
dota does have the funny system at least where people lose their comms privilages if they get reported too much
finite patrol
same as deadlock iirc?
finite patrol
muting every lash player IMMEDIATELY
wintry arrow
muting every lash player IMMEDIATELY
Bebop sympathizer detected.
near current
is yamato just easy mode?
rich grove
up til someone buys a silence
lavish grove
Question about Lash upgrades, does the ult 2 upgrade increase the range at which you can grab people or does it only upgrade how far they can go when the ult ends?
magic summit
How far they go
rich grove
lash ult range is an infinitely tall cylinder right
magic summit
Yeag
lavish grove
Ah ok
finite patrol
i swear every time i play lash i either feed and lose lane or do this and there's no in between
2nd in obj damage and healing as well
rich grove
if I had a nickel for every time people called lash shiv and vice versa
finite patrol
lash shiv wraith haze
wispy ingot
<@&1277035919182008330> bonk I have discovered Abrams and I'm ready to THRASH
lavish grove
Fellow Abrams enjoyer
finite patrol
abrams punch good. as good as shiv? maybe? maybe not.
lavish grove
There is no better feeling in lane then seeing my opponent stand in front of a wall and my shoulder charge is off cooldown
It’s like being delivered souls
wispy ingot
Anyone up for a game?
lavish grove
Unfortunately I’m very tired
buoyant plank
https://fixupx.com/inteldeadlock/status/1848037055625920610?s=46&t=0l4YmDDvQH9pb...
They can never catch a break with these fucking hooks lmao
finite patrol
they need to nerf paradox's dash. it's too fancy. I always feel like I'm getting styled on even if I'm winning
rich grove
- Paradox base dandiness increased (0.8 -> 0.9)
- Paradox foppishness growth reduced (0.1/boon -> 0.08/boon)
- Paradox rakishness no longer scales with spirit
- Paradox's dash-jump is now dapper
edgy fog
What about their severely nerfed bandabout stat?
wispy ingot
>>> - Paradox base dandiness increased (0.8 -> 0.9)
- Paradox foppishness growth...
Damn, nerfed the dandiness 
rich grove
@mild flume you up
wispy ingot
That's a buff
damn, they nerfed my ability to read
lavish grove
So how important is bullet and spirit armor items?
rich grove
or you could just buy metal skin
edgy fog
you do also get stat bonuses for buying that armour
rich grove
you should probably be buying armors but approaching them as a hard counter to one character doesn't make sense
you just look at your damage breakdown in the post death screen, say "hmm that's a lot of orange / purple" and go from ther
lavish grove
Alright
rich grove
they also scale better as the game goes longer and you get more HP
lavish grove
Yah all green items give Hp as a baseline right?
rich grove
if you're trying not to die at around the 10-20k soul mark you should consider barriers instead
even if you're not going to go into a Veilwalker package
lavish grove
Do barriers scale well late game?
wintry arrow
Barriers scale alright, are stronger early/mid than late.
rich grove
without Veilwalker they have much worse downtime compared to just active lifesteal, but they're also immune to resist shreds and antiheal
some characters also just don"t want to be in prolonged fights anyway
lavish grove
Ah alright
finite patrol
Imo there's very little reason to get the barriers unless you have some other way to generate a shield like veilwalker or you get them early. the recovery timer is just too long and they don't scale with your hp like resists do
rich grove
I think the only expensive shield-related item I'd consider lategame for most builds is Diviner's Kevlar, just because it provides such an instant, enormous buffer of health people have to go thru
Divine Barrier is also just bananas early-mid specifically because it's there when you want it for a quick burst of get-up-and-go
finite patrol
oh yeah I meant specifically the items enchanters barrier and combat barrier when I said barriers
wintry arrow
There's a handful of people who want the veilwalker tempo builds
finite patrol
yeah diviners Kevlar and divine barrier are great on their own
rich grove
it's a pretty shrinking slice of the pie rn I think
finite patrol
There's a handful of people who want the veilwalker tempo builds
yeah but then you're getting another source of shield
rich grove
though that might just be Warden players suddenly realising that Maj Leap is good
and z + 4 is a lot less effort than fiddling with veilwalker
finite patrol
I would be shocked if majestic leap doesn't get nerfed tbh
rich grove
the jump, slam-double jump cancel might be a little much cross-map momentum to be carrying over
it's honestly kind of bizarre to me that the slam doesn't just lock out your ability to double jump
pulsar bison
what does "tempo build" mean in this context
rich grove
from my own personal experience: your power spikes occur early enough to win early teamfights and close the game out before the lategame monsters kick your shit in
your key items for a veilwalker build are usually just two 1250s and a 3k vs. someone like haze who needs 1250s, a couple 3ks, then a 6k to really start the party
since most of your power is in green items you also get a chunk of free space to run sideboard tech, like being the dedicated silence guy in the yamato matchup
finite patrol
Tempo
sideboard
#card-gaming
thresh is right though
sac late power to capitalize on an early lead and win
8-2-14 ending at 30:00 type of game
wintry arrow
Not even necessarily sac lategame power. Delay large power spikes in favor of impact fully timed smaller spikes
finite patrol
yeah you can always sell your barriers and buy armour if the game runs late
lavish grove
Is there anything special about Shiv melee?
I’m seeing talk about it all of a sudden
rich grove
yup
getting heavy meleed for like 800 damage is real
and even tap melee still does a chunk and heals you back a bunch due to lifestrike
finite patrol
you only need to deal 73% of their hp before you can kill them immediately
rich grove
because of how bloodletting works any heal also makes him way tankier than it seems
then you just chain executes back to back which can often launch you back into a fleeing enemy team
allowing you to continue punching
finite patrol
he basically has all resist
I been playing it a lot
when it's good it's real good
have to get better at melee cancel
rich grove
I find it's way more momentum dependent than something like knife spam but when you get going holy fuck
finite patrol
i swear every time i play lash i either feed and lose lane or do this and there'...
literally just walking around in their base killing them one by one as they all shoot me for 2 straight minutes
rich grove
when they do try to parry you can also hit them with truly nasty timing mixups where they'll miss the parry window, then eat an m2 + a quick melee
finite patrol
his gun is really good
rich grove
I'm still personally a big weapon shiv main and as soon as you get close quarters people begin melting a lil bit ngl
like yeah shiv can punch you for big damage but he can also just meatshot you for half your life
he has one of the better inherent BRS tools with knife and rage dash + shotgun makes pretty quick work of most people
also amazing hunter's aura user
jaunty garden
Yah all green items give Hp as a baseline right?
All items give you a base stat of their type based on their cost
jaunty garden
Imo there's very little reason to get the barriers unless you have some other wa...
They're a quick item I get on Warden but I'm also rushing Kevlar on Warden so
finite patrol
so......
lavish grove
All items give you a base stat of their type based on their cost
Nice
jaunty garden
It's in the upper right of the item
finite patrol
yeah if you buy 4 500 cost gun items you are getting like 30% gun damage or something
finite patrol
gun damage is
6% per 500
10% per 1250
14% per 3000
18% per 6200
This doesn't care about component items AFAIK.
health is 11 / 14 / 17 / 20 %
spirit power is 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 flat
magic summit
Having not been able to play much this patch I am struck once more that I, Pocket, cannot engage with my gun past 16 meters. And Mirage, the asshole, plinks me from max range and still applies his mark in lane
finite patrol
just use spell 🙂
jaunty garden
Yeah pocket seems really good to me at least still
I can now maybe sometimes dodge his 1 instead of just always getting free harassed
Now is just mostly free harass while they're insanely safe with great poke
Also IDK I never found mirage poke does very much personally
You can just break los for a couple seconds regularly
rich grove
I think I would probably feel differently if I started the game with -15% spirit
he's insufferable to deal with as Haze with inherently low base health, I think Pocket's ehp is worse
they have suitcase and Haze doesn't, but having to spend suitcase to not die to mark proc is pretty miz
magic summit
Part of it is they can just press the button and the time they can wait to press that is a lot longer than suitcase lasts unless they just let it time out
And yeah you just start game taking +15% damage
rich grove
haze's weapon amp is a lot worse than pocket's wrt corner peekers, but her weapon class is a lot better at midrange and falloff isn't quite that bad
on net probably about the same amount of misery dealing with mr. sandman
magic summit
My main strategy has been to just accept I will probably lose lane and try to just out roam them
If it's like, mirage or geist
rich grove
as haze I am always losing lane against competent players anyway so nothing has changed
near current
how does one play lash
i am having so much fun
but i have no clue how to like
win
magic summit
as haze I am always losing lane against competent players anyway so nothing has ...
I am fine with like, all the other pocket nerfs even if I can really feel my lack of damage
I just want my shotgun range
It only really matters in lane and feels pretty bad
rich grove
I think they legit just forgot a lot of the system changes to stuff like tower smacked pocket's earlygame as well
iirc tower does spirit damage for some inexplicable reason so they just get cooked
finite patrol
pocket nerfs will continue until majleap is nerfed
rich grove
buoyant plank
The names are the best part of dota 2 and deadlock
jaunty garden
@rich grove Linkzr is going Melee Lifesteal and no other melee items on Haze
But thinks the melee lifesteal is worth it
Basically it's good for sustain in lane and fucks people up when you hit with knife
buoyant plank
Yet somehow still feels extremely new yorker
short quiver
cursed
twilit roost
when do we get the Maurice from Madagascar skin?
near current
whatd yall get
frail jasper
it's probably apt, middle of the road
finite patrol
obscurus gang
