🫡
#Deadlock
warm sonnet
Echo Shard on which ability though?
agile void
Echo Shard on which ability though?
considering how bebop is im going to assume 2
long duration + time it so you get fucked and get the stun back to back
those are easily 5 to 7 seconds of not doing anything
which is dangerous in a game like this
rich grove
yeah you put it on seven's stun
combo with knockdown to chain CC someone repeatedly til they die
with bonus potential for them to TK due to how enormous the stun aoe scaling is
primal wolf
I fear I may be the best lash in the world...
magic summit
I honestly don't get knockdown unless I am going full meme stun
Most games I do this start to rapidly end once I get echo shard but I want to be farmed enough to buy refresher too
I must triple stun someone
If I time it right that is 8.7 seconds of stun
primal wolf
Yet another satisfactory Lash round... I got a 12 killstreak
lavish grove
Twitter
warm sonnet
yeah you put it on seven's stun
I assumed so but I was fearing a cracked stack on his 3
Double AMP would be stupid and I guess I'm just a worried
magic summit
Buffs and debuffs don't seem to stack with a repeat application in this game, at least from all I've tested
warm sonnet
Ye, it's the usual but sometimes Icefrog frogs it up in the strangest way
edgy fog
I love that every time I see fan art of Ivy she's just biting stuff
and eating
hongry gal
warm sonnet
She is
THE
New Yorker
edgy fog
Ivy knows every hoagie shop in spanish harlem and always drags people out for food after a fight
Ivy is in at least one (1) blood feud with a deli owner
warm sonnet
She obviously has a flock of pigeons on call for when someone (a rude deli owner) has to be taught a lesson (pooped car)
edgy fog
Honestly if they wanted to really sell that this was the cursed apple, new york, then they really should have a deli owner as a character
Make it so it's a weird monster hunter/deli owner combo because hey, that deli meat is more than just regular stuff now
buoyant plank
Ivy is in at least one (1) blood feud with a deli owner
isn't that just being a new yorker
edgy fog
Sure, they might wind up basically being condiment man, but I support condiment man in all his endeavors.
edgy fog
isn't that just being a new yorker
yes
Honestly, Ivy is one of the few characters who feels really new york-y
A lot of the others are like "oh cool these type of guys but they're just in new york"
like kelvin, and seven, and haze
they're more achetypes that have been placed here, while Ivy feels very integrated into the new york vibe
Dynamo is decently new york but in the highly educated new york professor way
even then it doesn't feel like he's super involved with the world outside his science
buoyant plank
new york state rather than new york city?
edgy fog
yeah Dynamo is like... gives similar vibes as Lady Geist. They have their little niche and they don't leave it, so do not get involved with people on the street
buoyant plank
deadlock cast tierlist but based on how likely they are to yell at people on the street
edgy fog
Top tier = Ivy, Lash, Warden
Warden isn't even particularly new york feeling to me either he just yells at people on the street a lot
buoyant plank
And lash is an asshole
edgy fog
Lash has a little new york in him
I do feel they should have given him a Jeresy accent though
buoyant plank
He'd be too powerful with a jersey accent
edgy fog
Honestly I was surprised Shiv didn't have a Jeresy accent
he felt designed to be from Jeresy
like, the greaser achetype was originally italian american right? Which the Jeresy accent links itself back to?
runic cedar
"ey im stabbin ova hea" shiv w a jersey accent i guess
edgy fog
I don't even remember what he sounds like normally.
For his design being kinda slick and cool I just remember being kinda disappointed in his voice
cloud shuttle
Staten Island is now just a hellmouth
steep flicker
But you repeat yourself
twilit roost
Big brain moment, this game is a prequel to blood blockade battlefront
magic summit
The one new York accent is when the soul jar starts mocking you for taking too long
twilit roost
They should have the little candles jeer at you in New York accents
I think bebop is still on his old neon prime voice, probably will get a different one
magic summit
Bebop is specifically cockney
Which is honestly funny enough coming from a robot I think it should stay
pulsar bison
he didn't adopt the accent from his environment the voice module was just Like That
agile void
also I think wraith fits
warped ridge
Shiv is the wukong of this game
agile void
since she is a mobster with a tommygun so she is the al capone
we need the fantasy IRS
warped ridge
Wraith is def mobster
Infernus might be a newspaper manager or something, always get the hot scoops
agile void
he is a bar owner
warped ridge
I can see a bar owner having the hot scoops
agile void
pulsar bison
getting got by the lil freaks
agile void
getting got by the lil freaks
I think he literally died by the slot machine damage
agile void
I always love when the one I get matched in laning is of equal skill with me, we dont manage to kill each other and its just 6/7 minutes of pure fighting and barely scratching the tower
lavish grove
Oh what are these from?
warped ridge
The game files, their lore thingies
lavish grove
Ohhh
warped ridge
agile void
40 minute match
rich grove
I can't look
frail jasper
I always love when the one I get matched in laning is of equal skill with me, we...
Frankly, same. I'd much more enjoy equal skill back-and-forth than a stomp in either direction
warped ridge
I feel like I don't get equal skill in lanes
but it's also because I usually start deleting people after laning phase is over
so the game is doing general match mmr and putting me in a lane against someone with the same general match mmr so they beat me in lane but I usually end up beating up the rest of their teammates
edgy fog
It was a long while ago, but speaking of New York deli's and hoagies...
How old are Bodega's?
I do hope they include more black characters. They've got native american (though I hope Talen's design changes up a bit cause I know it's meant to be out of date), Yamamoto as a recent immigrant, Wraith as a black character, and Ivy as tentative spanish rep (what with gargoyleness)
I'm a bit uncertain how to treat Infernus. He's definitely got aspects, but I feel like I'm not confident to make assertions.
tardy sundial
as the world's oldest zoomer
edgy fog
a pre-emptive zoomer
magic summit
Grey Talon and Yamato I think are the ones getting the biggest redesigns, since both of theirs are still the Neon Prime versions
edgy fog
yea
rich grove
I get what they were going for with weeb alien yamato but rn she has the same "I'm not sure if this is racist" energy as FANG streetfighter
edgy fog
I am a fan of the hunk of junk styling
rich grove
"what would this even be a caricature OF"
edgy fog
yeaaah
rich grove
dgmw: the 13head memes are very good
edgy fog
I believe it's because the original incarnation from Neon Prime was a characature. I heard somewhere that they were actually a cosplayer who had gone way over board with samurai obsession
rich grove
yeah that was what I was talking about
edgy fog
But now they're an actual person and are gonna get a redesign
Gonna be interesting to see how they'll go
I think Bebop needs something to give him a bit more of a personable vibe
like Dynamo's little glasses
edgy fog
yeah but like, give them a cigar or something
something that is a silly little human element that gives them that "I am just a robot doing their best for my mum"
Haze is gonna get a bit of a design change as well i think
honestly I hope they just straight remove her head and make it mist
rich grove
I think it's cowardice to assume bebop isn't doing the best for his mum just because he's a brick
magic summit
If they give him a human anything it should be a shitty tracksuit jacket to get the true cockney experience
rich grove
I would pay 500 dollars for a chavbop costume.
edgy fog
I would be interested I'll admit
rich grove
bebop with the beeboks
edgy fog
I assume he is doing his best because he's a good lad, but I feel like displaying it in his character model is a good idea too
wintry arrow
honestly I hope they just straight remove her head and make it mist
I think you NEED a clearly defined head, for shooting it purposes.
edgy fog
even if it's just a lipstick kiss on his forehead from his dear old mum
magic summit
Really jerking yourself off with all the lash posts
edgy fog
I think you NEED a clearly defined head, for shooting it purposes.
Just have a floating X on the forehead area that you can clearly aim at and have the rest misty. It would make her harder to take down ambushing her but she's an assassin
primal wolf
Really jerking yourself off with all the lash posts
I'm method acting
edgy fog
Jacobthy Lash is best girl
magic summit
I'm method acting
Fair enough
tardy sundial
they gotta make mo&k not aliens too
magic summit
I like the aesthetic of them but think they need to be grungier
They are the sewer people
edgy fog
Well, Tunnel people, not just sewers. But I respect that
I want Mo to be grungier and Krill to be fancier
Really split the vibes on the master/blaster style
primal wolf
I think Lash is actually the best character in the game
warped ridge
I'm more feeling Grey Talon is the most overtuned right now
but also it's prob just not being able to get enough games in
warped ridge
kelvin is cool
unfortunately I get a bunch of teammate silly kelvins who go 1v1 more than they should
rich grove
Ice is nice.
warped ridge
and then ult in the 1v1
wintry arrow
Kelvin's nerf helped fix him
Grey could probably use a nerf somewhere, arrow rain is safe, long-rage, and high damage.
warm sonnet
Technically Bebop is too but bebop seems kinda fine
Yeah, the model is the Neon Prime iteration but his Character Card has a different head
twilit roost
I assumed his model is going to get an overhaul just because of the samurai leg armor he has going on
tardy sundial
I assume ever model is getting overhauled
So many of them have placeholder-ass textures like infernus and viscous
twilit roost
I mean infernus character model is probably going to the same minus graphical updates viscous is getting something completely new, that's what I mean
lavish grove
Technically Bebop is too but bebop seems kinda fine
Idk Bebop still has that like, techno Japanese look?
It’s just more subtle
He’s got prayer beeds on his legs, a sorta samurai styled armor on his waste, and his hook arm is basically a junk version of a tetsubo
He’s essentially a junk robot version of an oni
pulsar bison
when are they putting sol badguy in deadlock
edgy fog
Sunday
warped ridge
lavish grove
Anyone have issues with infernus’s reload showing a bunch of Xs?
rich grove
known bug
it's inexplicable, happened to me on Dynamo as well
believe it's a misconfigured particle effect
lavish grove
Ah ok
wintry arrow
Also had that in a game
primal wolf
Source 1 had the hell texture, while Source 2 has the X
primal wolf
Missed the best hook of my life by a nanometer
wintry arrow
At some point those long hooks are just dice-rolls.
You can predict, aim...but sometimes that jerk 60m away zigs when you were certain he'd zag.
Unless you are a FIEND at hitting someone just at the end of a roll, which is really tight timing at long distance.
buoyant plank
You can predict, aim...but sometimes that jerk 60m away zigs when you were certa...
Or you just spend the last 15 years playing pudge, blitzcrank, mnc veteran, roadhog, etc :v
wintry arrow
I mean, I'm speaking to the fact that Bebop's delay is long enough that there is just room for chaos and randomness at the longer distances.
magic summit
At a certain range unless they are standing outside your render distance the speed of bebops hook coming towards you is like watching this
Which makes sense since the best comparison is in fact Pudge and people have made whole graphs about the reactability of dodging a hook based on distance they are from you
agile void
whenever I become the "playmaker" as wraith I end up having to buy superior duration to spam my ult
frail jasper
i assume superior cooldown was what was intended
agile void
shit right
cooldown
but yeah There are some games where people just need to stay the fuck in place
haze was kinda feeding tho
oh yeah also dynamo hated my guts because I parried him 3 obvious melees
magic summit
wintry arrow
I've revolutionized my TERRIBLE Mcginnis builds by realizing that Echo on charge abilities just refreshes a charge atop the re-use cooldown, so you can just restock turrets between engagements.
Purple Mcginnis is top-tier not-playing-the-game gaming.
mild flume
I really don't get this game lmao
I just have not managed to like
figure out what the flow of the game is supposed to be
wintry arrow
The neutral midboss is really (in my experience) used as finishers and bonus rewards for winning a well-timed teamfight. Gameplay revolves around grinding out cash from unattended waves and neutral camps, attempting to punish opponents from doing the same, and taking tempo plays with 'towers' to get teamgold and flex slots.
wintry arrow
The camps? Yes.
SMalls are very fast, like 'drop an ability' fast. and give not that much.
Medium neutrals give solid reward, and don't require much shooting, or a second ability to burst them.
BIG camps are ~450 souls for all 3, even if they do take a bit more shooting.
People who mulch big camps efficiently can substantively supplement their income, and more importantly free up lanes for their buddies.
Since lane-farm from the orbs doesn't split perfectly efficiently.
But people who take the big camps slowly will take ages, which changes the math.
frail jasper
priorities in rough sequence of when they matter
- last-hit and deny lane troops a LOT, like this is hugely important moreso than kills
- take down your lane's guardian
- take down all guardians and/or your lane's walker
- take down all walkers and/or one of the enemy shrines (push side lanes)
- take down both shrines and lead into destroying the patron
all the while you should be doing these things in varying amounts
- break boxes and other decorations for unsecured souls and powerups
- clear neutral camps as early and often as possible (smalls are very easy to clear, mediums take a little longer, not all characters are good at clearing larges)
- kill enemies (they cannot farm souls if they are dead, try to stagger kills so their respawns are not aligned together)
- run the soul urn across the map for a team-wide reward (you move faster if your team has fewer total souls)
wintry arrow
Salad is right, farming and denials are usually worth more than kills. Kill-pressure is largely rewarded with free space to do the above.
Especially in lane.
Lategame the kill rewards get spicier.
frail jasper
the value of killing your lane opponent is not the souls they reward but that
- you can now freely farm your lane and nearby neutral camps and boxes
- they cannot farm the lane or neutral camps or boxes
this leaves them with fewer souls than you, and total souls directly corresponds to how inherently powerful you are (your HP and weapon damage goes up at multiple increments), how subjectively powerful you are (you have more ability points to allocate to skills), and how many store items you have (you can spend more souls to get items that make you stronger)
every enemy death should be viewed as an opportunity to go push one of the above objectives or aggressively farm the neutral camps on THEIR side of the map
wintry arrow
To be fair, for some characters the answer is also aggressive ganking.
Lash fighting Neutrals? Not that happy. Lash fighting an enemy lane that didn't see him coming, descending from orbit? Happy.
frail jasper
that falls under "push an objective" because more dead enemies means you can push more lanes up to take walkers sooner
oh and on top of all that, you should be actively trying to PREVENT the enemy from doing the same. do everything in your power to keep them from killing guardians and walkers for as long as possible because it denies them item slots
killing neutrals on their side of the map means they cannot just play it safe and farm them when you're not around
wintry arrow
I'm also here to just advocate for like, a really distressingly high portion of the cast buying Monster Rounds. It's reasonable stats, lets you push faster, farm faster, kill guardians/walkers faster...
For a 500 the way it scales is just aces.
Bonus points for giving enemy Mcginnis grey hair for mulching turrets.
frail jasper
I really like Ammo Scavenger recently. Getting +2 ammo on confirming/denying souls is really really good for staying actively farming in lane.
magic summit
I've revolutionized my TERRIBLE Mcginnis builds by realizing that Echo on charge...
My recent mcginnis build revolves around building spirit and farming until I can buy echo shard, get healing booster and enhanced reach then just make the entire area multiple healing spectres
mild flume
I feel like I'm starting to fight ok its just like a very kinda scattered game
rich grove
I feel like I'm starting to fight ok its just like a very kinda scattered game
ok I'm glad someone who actually plays MOBAs also feels this because I legit feel like I need to parallelize my brain
reminds me of trying to internalize Quake power ammo countdowns
mild flume
I mean
I can play dota I understand mobas
but this game just I dunno
I don't get it
warm sonnet
Could you name some concrete problems you run into?
warped ridge
It's def there but I've played too many variations on too many types of games that it's not super out of place for me
Mainly for me the things I notice
Map design is confusing (not as confusing as Siege can be but it's not as neat as most tps/fps games)
Creep pathing is jank (this is probably related to needing more polish but even if you're always gonna get a tinge of annoyance when they ignore you and walk behind a wall or something)
Abilities and sounds aren't super unique which can cause confusion (I've gotten the characters mixed up due to misassuming who they were based on their guns)
Source engine jankiness (bang the character on something and it fudges my movement like tf2)
Map itself feels cluttered but sparse at times (more a personal thing but it never feels smooth to go from one location to the next, even when using ziplines)
Combat def has some quirks too but most of the smaller stuff gets drowned out by the crazy stuff items give capacity for
astral stone
@warped ridge heres how many games have gone
astral stone
the next pages are pretty 50/50
but ye what i do with my ult is i usually get them lower than execute and then just hope my quickscope kills them
its usually just quicker that way than charging
sometimes ill use charge execute tho
astral stone
Team fortress 2 sniper brained
whhtya mean by that
warped ridge
Some of the sniper guns in team fortress 2 charge while being zoomed in to deal extra damage
So I like letting it charge all the way to appease the goblin brain 
magic summit
Vindicta I like conceptually but I've learned that I just can't play the characters that need precise aim
I just have bad aim
I love it when shooters give me a character that I don't need to be precise on, I can skill express in other ways
mild flume
Could you name some concrete problems you run into?
generally what to be doing when, where I should be, what actual roles and jobs exist
roughly
and I feel like I somehow get less money than I should while laning
warm sonnet
On that last part, denying and guaranteeing orbs are integral to a properly played lane. Moreso than kills. And whenever you can you should rotate into your neutral camps at the side of your lane (barring dangerously low health, the small camps of three small or two medium creeps are safe to grab when your troops are at the enemy guardian).
And when it comes down to roles and jobs, nothing is fixed as far as I know. Everyone can fight, some just has a niche in how they do it, or how they help other characters survive.
Using an example I am familiar with: Shiv and Builds
The most popular player made guide focuses on his Knife Throw. It's probably good, but to me focusing on his Slice and Dice pays off so much more.
mild flume
I have been doing shiv and throwing knives yeah
wintry arrow
I really have great distrust for that popular knife-shiv build.
warm sonnet
Unfortunately, I am incapable of hitting my knifs
Instead I hurl my hot ape-man body at them
mild flume
it seems pretty effective but yeah
I think I do ok at getting kills and stuff but the knives don't help farm
warm sonnet
If you need to flash-farm some neutral creeps, slice and dice
mild flume
yeah thats more what I use it for
the knives feel kinda antisynergistic if that makes sense
warm sonnet
And as a Shiv-Sage, you're one of the more proficient gankers. Though I don't know the timing, my current build enables you to begin ganking as soon as you get your Special and its six early items.
yueah I getcha
It's an enabling tool I feel, rather than a central tool.
warm sonnet
As a wise Shiv-player this server once said, maxing your Special is really good for Shiv
Allows you to finish enemies that might escape a fight or one that you just joined.
My favorite sauce is Slice and Dice + Mystic Reverb
mild flume
I have been mostly focusing on just figuring out the map play and whatever
over itemisation
and builds
what exactly I'm supposed to do and where
wintry arrow
The most common thing I've seen as a newer player pattern is avoiding active items. Some of the actives are QUITE strong, especially as specific-problem-solvers.
magic summit
Some ults need to be countered by active items, much like dota
rich grove
active items are pretty fucked rn
Decay and Slowing Hex at 1250 feels legitimately criminal
magic summit
Yeah I get an early debuff reducer on Pocket now just so that when people inevitably spam those on me I can chill in my satchel until it's over
rich grove
Silence/Curse also basically good on any hero
but those are a bit more reasonable at 3 and 6k
Silence is an anti-Yamato/Pocket/Lash button though
magic summit
Please do not purchase silence 🙏 let me ability spam in peace
warm sonnet
I have been mostly focusing on just figuring out the map play and whatever
Generally, it's three broad aspects which I believe I can provide advice on
Laning: Ends when you can't hold your guardian anymore, or when you don't need to. If someone is more aggressive and can bring down your guardian without you being able to threaten theirs in turn, you shouldn't stay without support. Gank or ask for 'em.
Roaming: Half farming wherever you can, half responding to pushes. If an ally nearby is pushing, come in to support. If an sole enemy is pushing, hit hard and first, otherwise make them split away their attention from the walker/guardian. If you aren't actively moving towards a kill or a push, farm the nearest creeps. If you think its unsafe, zip back and scour homebase creeps. The first set of teamfights stem from responses to pushes.
Stomp or Strife This is down to teamfights and rats. Whereas the earlier fights usually compose 3 to 5 players total, you'll begin to see the probably outcome of the later game when most players in a match compose these teamfights. The more decisive losses of majority teamfights are, the more you need to stall to recoup the soul-difference. Solo pushes into enemy territory are dangerous if you have more dead players and/or low-to-no Soul inferiority, but very good if you can occupy a majority of the enemy team on their side of the map.
TL:DR Gank when you cannot lane, farm when you cannot fight, fight when you cannot push, stall when you cannot fight. React to enemies on your side of the map, react to allies on the enemy side of the map.
Don't forget to check your damage taken after a fight (generally when dead or by holding TAB)
Also Duo lanes are scary and solo lanes are far more fair to someone falling behind
agile void
not really
the income is the same if you are close by
dunno how close you have to be
I assume 40/50 meters unless you can shoot the orbs?
warm sonnet
Afaik there is some soul-splitting between players which is worsened later in the game. However, to me as an aggressive player you are safer from punishment in a solo lane, as there is only one enemy to punish you. Stacked nukes or disables is hard to counter if your teammate isn't on the same page as you.
And, unfortunately, I believe that because I am brave, the enemy will die before they can harm me. FOr I am icefrog's favorite shiv player.
mild flume
hmmm okay
and there is no reason to shoot the orbs in an uncontested situation right?
warm sonnet
If no one's there to shoot them, you get them automatically, yes
So yeah, leave em to float
agile void
and there is no reason to shoot the orbs in an uncontested situation right?
unless you use ammo scav
which gives you temporary spirit power depending on the stack of souls you shoot/punch
warm sonnet
Specifics generally outclass generalities, ye
agile void
yeah Im just pointing out the one thing
mild flume
yea ofc there are some specifics
warm sonnet
Generally
warped ridge
<@153055526358482944> heres how many games have gone
meanwhile me over here
astral stone
I love it when shooters give me a character that I don't need to be precise on, ...
Your pocket is crazy ngl, that clip I saw was wild
astral stone
meanwhile me over here
Nooooooo
agile void
you can notice this is my first time as mcginnis
magic summit
Your pocket is crazy ngl, that clip I saw was wild
Honestly my favorite part of that super long clip I posted is right at the end when I'm about to step out of the veil, hear Seven walk near, and then just wait to see if he passes
Deadlock is a stealth game
edgy fog
Look at you all, pressing 4
I'm a Warden player, never pressed 4 in my life
Pressed 3 a lot
Never dared overstep my bounds and press a 4
tardy sundial
Feel that as a McGinnis
4 is an integer too far
warped ridge
mild flume
so I guess I don't quite get why I'm getting a lot less in lane
looks like my last hits are a bit below par but not miles for the game
(I'm iced coffee)
warped ridge
did you leave the lane at all and get souls elsewhere?
actually my math is slightly fudged but uhh
mild flume
got a little but not a ton, but the gap still feels big even for that
also what is bloodletting
2k souls is a lot of neutrals
rich grove
also what is bloodletting
bloodletting is shivs passive 3 skill
part of the damage you take is delayed, which is the orange chunk on the health bar
mild flume
ah so its the delayed damage
warped ridge
got a little but not a ton, but the gap still feels big even for that
it's more you're behind in farm because every creep gives 75
and then every minute the value increases by 1.2%
rich grove
also is that actually less souls you're getting or is that just the double-count of souls in the duo lane lo
warped ridge
it's less souls, if you look at individual soul count instead of duo soul count you'll notice it's more avgery (around 6k at 9m)
where a duo lane between both is averaging around 12k souls
mild flume
oh I see it is the dual lane mostly
that makes sense
I do feel like I'm falling behind early and catching up midgame when I start killing a lot
rich grove
seems p common
warped ridge
quick and dirty math means a max of 6300 souls per 9 minutes if you do 75 souls per minion
with a wave of 4 every 25 seconds
which is (((540/25)x4)x75)
but in reality souls increase per minion by 1.2% per minute
so after first minute each minion is 90 souls
rich grove
just take the integral ez
warped ridge
to win your lane a lot of people do a rule of thumb by either claiming enemy obj or by having 3k souls ahead of the opponent (enough worth one mid-game item)
the one kill I got was worth roughly 500 souls and the 2 assists were worth roughly 164
that means each kill for me was worth about an average of 220~ souls
1 wave of creeps at 0 min is 300 souls
so a kill is worth less unless they took time getting back to lane and lost a wave (making a total soul difference of 520 as they missed 1 wave while I gained the kill, or you can look at it as 820 if I gained the full wave, they missed 1, and I got the kill)
more than likely minions are killing eachother while lane fight is happening or it's not as clean as that where I kill them then kill the wave, my wave takes time to push up and they get back before it dies to tower
so kills being worth it is really up in the air depending how much you focus on it
meanwhile each deny takes about 37~ souls from the opponent
if you want to see how like
soul count does throughout the game do the souls per minute and you'll see if you caught up or not
I will say being behind isn't that crazy as long as you then go do some solid farm to catch up
agile void
there was difference
warped ridge
Gotcha that's a bit iffy, i think the best way to see actually what's going on is to download and watch the replay and then examine the other lanes compared to yours
agile void
why the fuck im always the lowest damage player
slow void
Solo laning as Ivy makes me scream
frail jasper
Yeah it's pretty rough. Best you can do is focus last hitting and denying from afar, her gun is pretty good for it despite low damage
rich grove
she has bebop laser at home
buoyant plank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v54RBTHFVQk got this in my reccs and it's good general moba advice
warped ridge
the guide I saw basically explained that losing a lane is fine you just need to quit dying at that point and focus on farm
you can't control teammates going into bad teamfights but you can always walk away
EG this is me nearly losing a lane cause I died 4 times
This is the end of the game
lavish grove
God I’ve been having fucking terrible matches recently
Every game I’m matched against someone so much better then me in lane
mild flume
yeah I have had some rough ones lately too
enjoying lady geist
good general toolkit
lavish grove
I’ve been enjoying the characters I play but I always feel so useless
And god I miss the surrender button
Being forced to play through games decided by minute 6 sucks so much
halcyon wagon
magic summit
🇫
rich grove
50 minute game where both sides punted til one could punt no more
that was
the single worst game i have maybe ever played
wintry sentinel
I am currently waiting to receive my invitation to play by email 
Very excited to try this out
frail jasper
Feels bad when your lane isn't going too badly but 6 minutes in you get a visit from both enemies from the next lane over who have been ruthlessly fed by your team over there and are now starting to snowball uncontrollably
pulsar bison
been landing parries recently but then i get so excited over it i fumble the followup
mild flume
I totally don't get the punching game
warm sonnet
Had a horrible game against a Sleeper Agent Haze
Set up free Heavy punches by slifing me to kneep.
buoyant plank
I still haven't met a single person that has parried
More often than not it becomes
warm sonnet
Heroes all.
magic summit
My trick is to raw dog a heavy melee early on and then never punch them again
I will dash jump right up to them and they waste time parrying me while I shoot them in the face
magic summit
You can parry a normal punch so they are trying to guess that
astral stone
Ye I'm wondering why, causes it's very reactable
Both from sound and animation/vfx
Tho the pressure makes it hard to react sometimes
halcyon wagon
we are still in the era where you can use debuffs and punches because the playerbase as a whole doesnt know how to parry and doesnt buy debuff remover
astral stone
Ye
agile void
hell even debuff reducer is fucked against abrams
he is forced to do light parries
with the current patch his shoulder charge makes the heavy melee reactable followup unless its tier 2
magic summit
we are still in the era where you can use debuffs and punches because the player...
More people buy Debuff Remover for my Seven stun build than for me playing Pocket, lol
edgy fog
I've been trying out a few folk, Kelvin seems more of a dick than Lash does
warm sonnet
Kelbor is a constant annoyance, Lash is a sudden annoyance
edgy fog
I mean more personality wise but yeah
warped ridge
ngl parry mechanic feels jank but I'm sure it's a dotaism
they melee me twice while I'm spamming the f key and then when they decide to walk away it finally activates the parry
warped ridge
we are still in the era where you can use debuffs and punches because the player...
it's an issue of debuff remover just in general not being that useful
well, not more than building the other items
so you have 2 scenarios, people aren't buying it cause they're bad and they get steamrolled
then you have people who are good who aren't buying it because they're aware most of the time there's better options
I might buy it if there's an infernus who is fed
or if I'm being spammed by like
3 different debuffs
and I absolutely need some survivability (because I'm capped out on my damage items)
but also I'm sure if I played more than 4 people I'd probably need it more
but also it costs 4k
and if I'm struggling I'm usually not gonna buy it due to how much it costs when I should be avoiding fights anyways
which is where I'm thinking it would be different if I was playing like dynamo or something
magic summit
Debuff remover/reducer exists as a counter item to stop meme bullshit. The check of a good player is if they complain about being memed on by some bebop who is 2 months late to the echo shard bomb build or just know to buy an item that completely stops that if they are being caught by it
warped ridge
echo shard bomb build?
magic summit
The build 80% of bebops spammed until being an orbital laser became more popular
warped ridge
I only know of orbital laser
but tbf I can't always play during the week and had to move last week so I wasn't playing for like 7-9 days
meme builds are funneh tho
wintry arrow
Echo bomb is so much funnier, being bad is not going to stop me from giggling like an idiot.
magic summit
My friend is a bebop pervert and it never ceases to amaze me when someone runs the double bomb into their entire team
wintry arrow
Bonus comedy if you run reverb.
magic summit
They usually do if they get the money for it
Game can end a lot before a second T4 is bought though
rich grove
it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is it is what it is
pulsar bison
so it goes
magic summit
Sometimes that's dota deadlock
Obsessed with the Geist who built near zero defense but was absurdly rich
mild flume
geist farms real good
I have been spamming her
though I tend to go into survivability after I really push my magic burst high
frail jasper
Obsessed with the Geist who built near zero defense but was absurdly rich
It's a real strat if you're especially goblin about the ult health swap I guess
It's a bold strategy, Cotton
I heard that the swap is your actual HP number not the HP % so if you have 750 HP max and the Abrams has 3k HP max you can just run at him, swap, and you just deleted over two thirds of his health bar
mild flume
I often find I just get fucking owned after swapping anyway even when I get a good one
bc she just really doesn't want to be that close with a build like that
I do wonder about a kinda tank build that focuses on the swap and lifedrain
magic summit
It mainly seems annoying when they get mystic slow and healbane
But if they go spirit I see more a focus on slice and dice
halcyon wagon
ive realized i cant deal gun damage to save my life so ive been experimenting with some spirit builds, lady geist and mcginnis so far
could use some hero recs for the point and click impaired, honestly
twilit roost
Melee build Abrams? He has a shot gun as well so it's a bit easier to click on people
halcyon wagon
abrams was what i played forever ye, im trying to branch out
as fun as it is to punch people id like to expand my roster a bit
cloud shuttle
Spirit Pocket's Fine
thorn lion
pocket moment
ivory reef
pulsar bison
holy shit lmfao
lavish grove
Our king
cloud shuttle
short quiver
https://youtu.be/jptVfAAnmi4
This is ~4 month old footage and was patched out immediately after it was discovered.
halcyon wagon
Me, just learning to dash slide and wallhop: Oh thank god
edgy fog
I'm still pretty bad at this game >_<
lavish grove
Same
Rn I feel like I get bullied out of lane so easily
I try and focus on farming and denying but fuck my opponents just run me down if I ever do
And it turns into a slugfest anyway
edgy fog
I pretty much managed to fight Kelvin to a stand still on a lane, denied them some souls, but I felt like I should have been doing more damage.
And then that game turned into just... jumping on me (paradox) and murdering me while my team never seemed to be around and looking for the enemy
stupid kelvin jumping on me and trapping me in their ult so they can just beam me down
we managed it in the end, which honestly was probably my teammates more than me. It was a lot more me popping out and being annoying while screaming
warped ridge
It depends on a lot of stuff
Game is a moba and laning can come down to character choice and early game build path
EG Grey Talon and Viscous are lane bullies
Good news is lane MMR is usually pretty solid rn
So usually you aren't having the worst time in lane or if you do, it's because you're significantly better than the enemy laner outside of lane
Well
Assuming they fixed that new player bug
edgy fog
I also don't think I was doing very well as paradox
warped ridge
Bwuuuuh depends
I haven't seen an amazing Paradox yet
So idk what the upper cap is
edgy fog
Mostly I just tried to pop out and blink someone in the head with a charged stun
twilit roost
Paradox's shield deals damage if you walk through it so popping it in the ice dome let's you play Winston footsies
edgy fog
Unfortunately it doesn't block Kelvin's beam so they can just kinda stay at a distance nad beam you
twilit roost
Oh til good to know
edgy fog
Last level of it does silence people who pass through it
But I'm not sure if that stops the beam if it's already going
I'm not sure if it amps bullets just briefly stops others
rich grove
I don't think silence interrupts inherently
agile void
Good news is lane MMR is usually pretty solid rn
ugh dont tell me that
I had a fucking bebop that I couldnt do anything towards
i did managed to at least stop his tracks and 2 of his teammates had to jump in to take my lane
I hated it when he said ez. their shitbombs carried him, not him
warped ridge
I said usually
Also bebop is a lane bully
As he's basically blitzcrank but better
You can beat him in lane but it all comes down to dodging or out dps-ing his grabs
Also does depend on character choice
But usually the best way to deal with lane bullies is to out farm since they like to spam abilities and focus on that above all else
Only issue is they will win lane eventually because lane bullies can almost always guarantee being able to shove you back under tower
But problem is you basically have to clear their wave faster from within cover and avoid most of their ability spam
Also you have to have enough game sense to know how much they can do in one combo and back at the first sign they can kill you
Or to not get ganked
Now also
Game is early
And if you want to learn sometimes it's easier to just take Ls from trying than to slide by wins from accepting a bad lane
It's how you can better understand the cap of characters you play in certain matchups
Can't do much about people being toxic though other than report them
frail jasper
I haven't seen an amazing Paradox yet
Unfortunately Paradox is just not as independently dominant as most if not all other characters. She needs a lot of work to achieve comparable results to anyone and Haze still just runs in and presses 4 and wins so even when she does well it's still rough. Here's hoping for either appropriate buffs or rebalances to make her not suffering to play.
rich grove
paradox is fine, running face-first into maybe the strongest duelist in the game in kelvin is both not really what she wants to be doing and also a really bad matchup
she transitions from someone who can secure picks by herself early game with carbine + burst into a support role as the game goes long
agile void
You can beat him in lane but it all comes down to dodging or out dps-ing his gra...
What you expect me to do in this situation besides backing out?
I wasnt doing that much better soul wise but I got reactive barrier to make sure this fuckface didnt killed me with a grab
and even then I tried to avoid grabs BECAUSE TURNS OUT IT SCALES WITH ENEMY HIT GOD I LOVE SCALING JUST FOR THE SAKE OF SCALING SHIT
oh, look
magic summit
You maybe should take a break
agile void
the bebop one was yesterday
rich grove
tone down the salt in the channel at least
edgy fog
Follow me for more ivy adventures :3
you get souls from killing minions and making sure you get the orbs, if the enemy shoots the orb, they get the souls
so if you shoot the orange orbs, you get the souls of your minions too
lavish grove
Oh yah I’m more referring to like, the mid and late game
lavish grove
I tend to go equal with my lane opponent but fall off later
edgy fog
amazing on ivy
rich grove
probably the biggest thing is consciously routing through neutral camps to farm in 'dead time'
edgy fog
I ham proud of my ivy game
rich grove
at least in the ELO dumpsters I'm in, people will insist on picking fights all the time even when there's no chance of them securing an objective or similar off of it
just pointless back-and-forth poking without achieving anything
lavish grove
Yah heroes don’t seem worth much in this game
rich grove
in that time you can just go back to neutral camps and focus on that
rich grove
idk I assume there's scaling as well as catchup mechanics
lavish grove
Are there catchup mechanics in this game?
rich grove
specificallly I think killing someone worth more gives you drastically more souls
at the same time if you're trying to fight a Haze who's got 2k more than you do you're probably just fucked
lavish grove
Oh do it does have a bounty system then
edgy fog
I know there are some catch up mechanics because I struggled against Kelvin in lane for ages while some of my teammates DC'd, then when I went in and killed them once they were at our base I got like 3k souls from one person
they just pushed unattested to the base and we collapsed on them after that
lavish grove
Oh Jesus
magic summit
The catch up mechanic is a bit like it is in Dota
The souls you drop on death are based on your networth and how long its been since you have died
Or more specifically if you are on a streak
edgy fog
Also I love showing up as Ivy and scaring the shit out of people. I was laning against an Infernus, and he did mostly well, but it was hilarious when he used his ult for the first time, because he was sticking right to me, and just before he exploded I turned into a gargoyle and sat on his head.
magic summit
Oh yah I’m more referring to like, the mid and late game
If you are at a point past like 15 minutes just suck up farm wherever possible, really. Pay attention to when there is a big wave heading towards, say, a walker and clear that out, it both helps to have all the waves pushed up and a stacked up creep wave is more money then blitzing camps. The ideal is that you take a creep wave, take a camp in between that, and ideally be back in time for the creep wave once it pushes back
rich grove
your priorities for farming are also going to be dependent character-to-character
edgy fog
Some folk can farm super quick too, which can definitely mess on what ya do
rich grove
Vindicta probably the most obvious example since she has a direct monetary incentive to go for picks, but Seven or Shiv will clear a camp way faster than... idk, Dynamo or Lash with similar investment
edgy fog
I dunno Dynamo's stomp wave can clear pretty nice, but the cool down is much bigger
rich grove
off-handedly Seven and Shiv can both clear tier 3s way ahead of most of the cast
edgy fog
How does Shiv clear quickly? I've found them rough to clear with
rich grove
full rage slice and dice
edgy fog
Ahhh fair
rich grove
nothing moves so the echo is guaranteed and it's really easy to hit all 3 with it
shiv also wants to be jungling in large part so that he can build or maintain rage for any fights that do start
edgy fog
my ivy build I use can clear camps pretty darn well because you can pop down that kudzu bomb and stomp for 20% health back so you wind up coming out pretty on top
I really do be over here going
Ivy :3
cause I love her
Magma, who do you play? For farming reasons
lavish grove
If you are at a point past like 15 minutes just suck up farm wherever possible, ...
Thanks, I’ll go for jungle more often next game
warped ridge
Kills are worth but they're opportunistic
reason being is that flex slots become most important later on
ideally you want to have 0 dead time
Split pushers like Yamato and McGinnis usually want to be pushing lanes solo
basically how it goes for farming past laning phase is
Lane Farm->Jungle Camps->Obj
if you feel you're uncontested you can also just push for an Obj
halcyon wagon
ye and remember that waves are like, time based rewards, so theyre more important than junjle
by which i eman is once a waves gone those souls are just gone forever
you lost em
rich grove
ye
halcyon wagon
jungle is for when youre ganking or on a deadtime between waves
warped ridge
also
most people still don't do this properly but like
destroy boxes for souls
destroy the statues for permanent buffs
1% doesn't seem like a lot but after doing it 10 times that's 10%
edgy fog
I struggle to traverse properly. One time I thought I was joining a fight only to realize it was in the tunnels below where I was
warped ridge
map knowledge/rotation knowledge, can just build that normally or you can go into practice and just practice schmovement
edgy fog
Particularly useful for Ivy because of the whole flying thing
How does her tether actually work as well?
I swear I don't really understand it
Oh it's only like 30% of the healing
that explains why I don't feel like I'm healing people
plus they probably break tether
Is it better to play behind my ally if I have tether on an ally? I don't want them to get shot to shit while we're fighting
rich grove
in non-coordinated play just treat tether as a selfish heal and fire rate amp that occasionally has the side benefit of buffing your teammates
edgy fog
I wanna support people ;-;
Also the Ivy game I played came down to a rather fun conclusion where it was myself and Wraith on the enemy core and the enemy team fighting our team in our base
Unluckily for them, I had titanic magazine and active reload, and the enemy core went down in one and a half magazines
edgy fog
oh neat
lavish grove
God pocket if allowed just does so much damage
They really can just end people with the right combos
rich grove
I don't think people realise yet that pocket's 1 is damage amp on them not a debuff on you
I always feel a little shitty when I get farmed for barrage stacks as abrams and then my teammate gets fucking annihilated
quaint kernel
What is pokets one again?
rich grove
it's the one where they air glide and shoot the little meteors
does splash damage, iirc it slows and it gives them damage amp each time they hit a hero with it
I play a lot of fat boys so it's always a headache having my squishier buddies getting 1deag'd because I am simply too thick to dodge barrage
edgy fog
Abrams too thick and the clap of their butt cheeks keeps getting Haze killed
lavish grove
McGinnis is very dumb
magic summit
God pocket if allowed just does so much damage
Almost every game as pocket I get most damage regardless of if I won or not
rich grove
kerchoo
halcyon wagon
im shit at throwin knives but spirit shiv is really fun
halcyon wagon
the dash is sick, i do feel like i need to get better at movement tech or start using my execution as a gapcloser more cus the dash range is not that good and i need it for damage
also maintaining rage but thats about learning where jungle camps are
wintry arrow
Execute is probably not a gap-closer.
If you need one beyond sprint speed, actives will do you.
halcyon wagon
it is sometimes! as fun as kill securing is, you don't get a refresh in forever cus his other skills have more important upgrades and in some ganks getting in early and staring your burst is more important than securing a guaranteed kill
warm sonnet
Execute is honestly a good gap-closer, but not for starting a fight. The benefit it has for mobility and damage is better used that way once a teamfight is ongoing.
magic summit
Random thing but I noticed all my Sevens yesterday going my echo shard build, except they all went specifically Surge of Power too and one person called them out for doing a streamer build
Someone out there is stealing my sauce, and doing it badly
I really liked the one Seven I had that said "guys I have double stun, we win team fights now" then proceeded to die roughly 10 seconds later to just running in solo
agile void
Tbh as a wraith I kind of do that
full ult
use my 2to be intheface of everyone to activate stun on lots of people
I die but now half the team is 30% hp
everyone ignores that a full on lockdown/"You are not allowed to do anything" isdevastating because most people manage to survive because of lifesteal shit
once you lose that lifelead its hard to getback
magic summit
use my 2to be intheface of everyone to activate stun on lots of people
Buy Ethereal Shift
halcyon wagon
play pocket
rich grove
i
runic cedar
i uhh yeah, haze is really a filter character
rich grove
after the third 3k ult people were very sad
warped ridge
I mean yeah
She's the game's definitive hyper carry
She has one of the worst laning phases
Then her ult gets countered by stuns until you get unstoppable
She's also really easy to play for most people because you don't have to think hard to hit 4
Same deal for ult focus seven builds
lavish grove
Honestly I feel like her laning phase isn’t bad so long as you can track really well with her main gun
Even early on she does good damage
Even better with headshot booster
warped ridge
She does damage primarily with her sleep to heavy punch combo but it goes on a long CD and it's easy to outplay for most people
Most people just don't realize you should bully Haze
rich grove
her lane is pretty rough compared to kelvin winning every trade and denying everything
or bebop
mostly she just kind of explodes to a lot of early game burst characters
lash was hitting me for 50% off mediocre ground slams
warped ridge
I don't think she wins against any character in lane when it comes to trades yeah
rich grove
she also has no real get out of jail button so getting hit by any cc can mean she just folds
warped ridge
Except vindicta but that's only until vindicta gets her flying and then she just outzones haze
rich grove
and she needs that money to really start tankbusting with characters like mo and krill
warped ridge
Also in duo lanes she's arguably a bit worse since her ult does less damage the more people there are so it requires better setup with her lane partner
warped ridge
you also just gotta be a gamer aimer
I recently reinstalled kovaak's and started the voltaic aim routines just for this lmao
warped ridge
I def recommend uhh
Voltaic's benchmarks
But omg takes a bit to setup
Cause you gotta read a bunch and download the spreadsheet for progress tracking
rich grove
warped ridge
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vHiQRZMBJlmI69-SgHm3i0eS5ALfq2hEu-ZPyvC6ycE/mobilebasic
I think there's an aim labs version but can't quite remember
You don't have to do the discord stuff fwiw since that's just social
wintry sentinel
I have a question about this game
Does it have in game chat or anything like it? Because I keep waiting to try it, but I'm forever burnt out from toxic pvp games with constant flaming
astral stone
I have a question about this game
Does it have in game chat or anything like it...
Yes but it isn't really used much, is my experience
edgy fog
yes there is an in game chat. Text and voice. I believe you can mute it. I haven't had huge problems with it, but did have someone swear loudly then just quit
twilit roost
I have a question about this game
Does it have in game chat or anything like it...
people have been pretty good but end of the day it's a moba
astral stone
You can mute voice Im not sure bout chat but I'd assume so
wintry sentinel
Ok
edgy fog
I was a warden in a game and was getting kinda bodied because people weren't looking around
but we won. Huzzah!
from what I can tell, the issue was along the lines of map awareness. Which is something people struggle with all over.
by god though, feeling like I was going solo into a haze/infernus, nasty lane
lavish grove
I have walked past people with the urn by just, walking behind them
rich grove
steam maintenance
edgy fog
: (
We got like 4 urns that game
the enemy didn't go after them at all
so I couriered it three times and someone else once
Who do you think is the best courier?
warped ridge
Ivy
warped ridge
Ivy can deliver urns and people
lavish grove
Also I’ve noticed there’s a listed upgrade for the speed item that isn’t in game yet
rich grove
Ivy first and Lash distant second
Lash just because he probably has superior stam and good Lashes move like crackheads
lavish grove
Wait but you can’t use his grapple while carrying the urn I thought?
rich grove
just because he probably has superior stam
lavish grove
Oh
rich grove
it's basically mandatory on him in a way it isn't for anyone else I can think of off-hand
lavish grove
Fair enough yah
rich grove
he can also get out of dodge if he gets jumped in a way few other characters can
lavish grove
I still think Seven is the best though
rich grove
the side-dash/sourcejank tech on Lash is absolutely bugfuck
primal wolf
Lash is so much fun
rich grove
the difference in the ground you cover dashing side/side vs forward is so crazy
lavish grove
I gotta try out lash again
primal wolf
I don’t think I’ve ever hated a lane more than going up against a haze
rich grove
lifechanging tech
lavish grove
I’ve only played him once when I was brand new to the game
So I barely knew how to play the game at all
warped ridge
I don’t think I’ve ever hated a lane more than going up against a haze
Why?
Having problems against specific chars can happen, I'm a haze otp so I can answer questions if you want to know what a Haze does in lane
edgy fog
I found I could do some decent speed on Dynamo because you can start their heal/speed up before you pick up and it lets you motor for a while
rich grove
actually Kelvin can do similar stuff if you just start the icepath before picking it up
what the urn does and doesn't interrupt is weird
probably Kelvin over Lash then
primal wolf
Why?
My problems only really occur with her ult, and the mile wide hit box on the knife. The knife I can forgive, but that ult feels so upsetting
rich grove
ult getting a 3k guaranteed if the enemy team doesn't have a shutdown ult pocketed for you specifically is pretty wild
it's genuinely kind of difficult to die if you have any kind of survivability set up
primal wolf
Getting killed by what is essentially a fight win button feels so bad. A lot of the problems could be fixed if you have to actually aim it, opposed to just firing and forgetting
Half damage if you don’t aim at a guy, and full damage if you do sounds a hell of a lot better to deal with on paper
rich grove
I lived through a Geist swap from 100->10% and still killed her
while she had teammates up, even
primal wolf
Geist’s bomb is another silly little issue I have, but I can deal with it for the most part
rich grove
duration scaling with spirit really doesn't help matters either
"oh surely she's out now" and then your face is melted
primal wolf
I play fucking lash, I just death slam, ground pound, grapple out, and flog to deal with most problems
warped ridge
Knife needs to be adjusted some IIRC cause it can occasionally whap behind around corners
Her Ult is def a win button and to avoid it you generally just be cognizant if possible, late game is more depending though
rich grove
there's a dip in between people buying knockdown/metal skin and then haze buying unstoppable or her ult lasting so long metal skin can't save you
edgy fog
I think Pocket needs to have a moment before he can unleash from his case and burst you down
because god damn that person I was playing against didn't even have the animation start
just suddenly BOOM half my health
with no warning
rich grove
you can teleport while in case to instaboom people
edgy fog
you can just instaboom anyway
lavish grove
Probably yah
You can just immediately jump to cancel case and pop it
With burst and any spirit items it hits like a truck
edgy fog
yeah I think pocket needs tuning down
their gun is incredibly powerful, they have great movement, and instant damage
warm sonnet
And half their damage tools are escape or defense options too
lavish grove
Rn I feel like their only real weakness is a kinda mediocre 1
It’s good as a damage amp but doesn’t deal much damage past the early game and it does leave them kinda a sitting duck
edgy fog
they just feel kinda... overtuned. Like there's obviously skill involved to pull stuff off, just that they have so many tools that basically let them get away with stuff
while having also a long range poke and a gun that appears to be more damage than ivy when we traded attacks
warm sonnet
While I don't shine with 'em, I have also undervalued their 1. Not for its damage but its damage buff.
rich grove
if pocket's 1 is leaving them a sitting duck you are not playing against a competent pocket
warm sonnet
Ye
rich grove
I also think the vast majority of the complaints here are from people not buying silence glyph to instantly win the matchup
lavish grove
if pocket's 1 is leaving them a sitting duck you are not playing against a compe...
I am the main pocket player of my group so that makes sense
rich grove
this is an oversimplification but unlike trying to buy slowing hex for Vindicta or knockdown for Bebop uult, Pocket is deliberately trying to get in your face in active combat
thus using an active to silence them and then dive them while they're exposed is significantly easier
warm sonnet
Timothy Chalapocket's 1 is a neat way to do a skill-based buff
edgy fog
I mean their gun was wiping me for most of my health at mid range as a shotgun
rich grove
whereas with Vindicta she can just float 900 miles away and melt you anyway
edgy fog
At the start
warm sonnet
Were they hitting you with the missiles?
rich grove
you need to play around barrage
rich grove
without it they're a lot less scary, but if you're walking into the thing that gives them 25% damage idk
warm sonnet
Beforehand I meant
edgy fog
No
warm sonnet
Then again, I feel early game is fucking lethal
rich grove
if you're not getting hit by 1 then I genuinely don't know how they're doing that much, unless you're playing Vindicta or another squishy
certainly not at midrange
warm sonnet
She has average health and no innate resistances, so I could see her getting blarsted down by a Pocketses
rich grove
early game Ivy's damage is mediocre so I would not be taking those fights if possible
warm sonnet
Pocket has the same health and -15% Spirit Resistance
edgy fog
It wasn't even a fight he just turned the corner while I tapped some minions and blasted me for most of my health
I'm just saying that their stuff is just kinda overtuned
The only thing they don't have is CC, and that's not too bad, because they do the best CC, and kill people
magic summit
it's basically mandatory on him in a way it isn't for anyone else I can think of...
Lash is one of those characters in a Moba that is going to have an unfortunate viability jump between a singular item being good or not. Any buffs or nerfs to superior stamina affects a number of characters that like it a bit and affects Lash a lot
Also fun fact with the urn, you can start channeling Magic Carpet, step on the urn, and then start flying with Magic Carpet while carrying it
rich grove
yeah I genuinely can't think of another character off hand where I'm like "no you NEED superior stamina"
especially with how tight slots can be if your team is ass
magic summit
I also think the vast majority of the complaints here are from people not buying...
The secret tech that I grant to you, that I can only do because I am absurdly finicky about animations of characters casting spells because I am a Grandmaster Rubick player in dota: If I see someone throw out their arm at me as Pocket, it means they are casting an active item. Active items are a projectile that if it targets me and I cast satchel before it hits, the projectile gets eaten up
This is largely hindered by the, I wanna say, 0.2 second cast time on satchel
rich grove
it's not actually the 'I win' button but you're leaving a lot of percentage points on the table not doing it
magic summit
Which I can get around by buying Ethereal Shift, which lacks a cast time
rich grove
it's like having nobody on your team buy knockdown for seven/bebop vs one guy
magic summit
Please Icefrog give me an item that improves cast time 🙏
astral stone
Who do you think is the best courier?
Honestly Invicta
You can start your fly and get close enough to the ground to get the urn and then just fly with it
.
It should def get patched out
I doubt it's intended
twilit roost
I swear the tutorial has a tip about activating movement abilities before picking up the urn but I might be combining that and the new player guide
magic summit
Every method of delivery like that is just defeated by Ivy picking up the urn carrier, really
Which does require two people at least
astral stone
Every method of delivery like that is just defeated by Ivy picking up the urn ca...
I mean it costs an ult but ye and takes 2 people
twilit roost
Oh actually just realized I never went for a teleport with the urn, I feel like an idiot
astral stone
Also Invicta's fly speed gets improved by her movement speed
magic summit
Urn should, ideally, be a team activity, and not what it is in half my games which is one person picking it up and everyone just twiddling their thumbs until someone walks the whole way there uncontested
magic summit
Oh actually just realized I never went for a teleport with the urn, I feel like ...
Teleporters are disabled while carrying
astral stone
Urn should, ideally, be a team activity, and not what it is in half my games whi...
Def
Sadly it often isnt
astral stone
And Ivy's ult is also quite strong
primal wolf
Also that AOE on her stomp is deceptively large
astral stone
Ivy enrages me
Have ya seen Ivy's run at max speed
primal wolf
Not mentioning her speed or gun
astral stone
Ye ik, but she can get terrifying speedy and deceptively tanky
agile void
Who do you think is the best courier?
Ivy first because she can deliver the urn and people, kelvin/Haze second because they can use both their movement skills, kelvin and his ice skates and Haze with her invisibility, I think it even hides the urn when you are carrying it?
you also have Seven and Grey talon, why? because their speed scales off Spirit shit
so even if they dont have Sprint boots/enduring speed they will be cosplaying sonic and get to the other side of the map in 20 seconds tops
warped ridge
yeah I think pocket needs tuning down
Pocket is one of the few characters that to me is universally useful at all stages in the game assuming the player is okay at them
Idk if they need to be nerfed though because being universally useful doesn't mean they can just win, and usually even the better Pockers still get folded mid and late game
to me right now the two characters I see needing reworks or adjustments would be gray talon and bebop
well also maybe mcginnis but I need to actually fight a good one and not one that's just average
but also gray talon migth have already been reworked cause last time I played gray talon was a menance cause he could focus his arrow shot build and be a better sniper than vindicta with better reach, damage, and movement
and he could do this starting in laning phase
bebop having hook damage early on and then going orbital laser seems slightly overtuned to me, kind of like how seven's old ult builds before the nerf
but also it's early so other chars might be missing better builds
also I'm still trying to figure out the dotaisms
cause I'm noticing stronger feel than I expected for getting specific items
mainly in health department
edgy fog
Honestly I'd just like more drop off or less damage on the gun so they have to hit more pellets and they're not quite so strong early on or have to actually try during lane to get in close
warped ridge
Pocket?
edgy fog
Rather than being able to just chunk people early game before they even have stuff
yeah
warped ridge
who were you playing against the pocket?
edgy fog
Ivy
warped ridge
that's definitely a weird matchup for Ivy
cause normally Ivy wouldn't have to worry too much cause if someone gets close she can just statue stomp but like
Pocket can just do pocket memes and dodge with abilities if they fuck up their normal dodge
I think that's a lost matchup for Ivy
I think it's more even if it's one of the more traditional lane bullies though
edgy fog
yeah it just feels like they're incredibly damaging for being able to also just juke everything. When ivy's stomp is a massive wind up that you can barely control when in gargoyle and pocket can just ignore you most of the time
warped ridge
although if you're one of the carries you're def ripperino
ye pocket has high mobility and can harass in lane
granted Ivy should be able to just win against them late game if going dps build or out tank with tank/support build
edgy fog
hard when the team just death balled and the pocket was keeping me massively starved for souls
I was constantly behind
warped ridge
if you mean past lane it always comes down to macro unfortunately so team can always throw
in lane usually the best control you can have is just out-skilling them by knowing how to CS better
agile void
I still found it surprising how in my first time as pocket I ended up popping off and being top damage
edgy fog
Unfortunately I was not able to with this guy
warped ridge
but Idk enough about ivy on how to recommend doing that because I'm only aware of how her statue mode works
edgy fog
I couldn't go down the melee because that was shotgun range for him, and I couldn't kill the minions without them immediately denying me
they also could just dive under tower without caring because they have so many things that let them ignore... anything
agile void
agile void
they also could just dive under tower without caring because they have so many t...
not really
he probably had monster rounds
remember a important detail of monster rounds
"Reduces Npc damage by 35%"
guardian is still dangerous but you can actually survive a few seconds in there with it
warped ridge
should never melee when opponent can out-harass you, denies are always in your favor minus insane gun advantage (EG vindicta having gun advantage over every char)
safe depends in this game because guns>towers and you have to know cover vs concealment (most people transferring from mobas will have to get experience on this while most tps/fps players have to learn item builds and wave control)
agile void
if you are winning lane as Abrams, you grab the item to dive in and tackle a mofo
warped ridge
for ivy vs pocket, ivy has gun advantage so if you last hit a creep, it's slightly in your favor
rich grove
monster rounds also great when you are losing lane
clear the wave faster if you're already down on money to make up for the hero power diff
warped ridge
granted I don't know enough about ivy like I said cause ideally you want to be ability spamming CS
if you're not using it to harass
edgy fog
I mean yeah that's why I didn't melee the creeps. And yeah he did, repeatedly, just ignore the tower because he could get in with full health and chunk me repeatedly at no risk.
warped ridge
ye most chars that can outharass will eventually tower dive for free damage
agile void
like I said, must have had monster rounds
warped ridge
because waves in this game have banner creeps that give health
so if you don't immediately clear the banner creep or out dps their regen + lifesteal + heal banner they just get all their health back
agile void
pocket has his 2 so he can avoid some skills with that or put mystic burst to hit you hard with it
Ivy normally starts with her 1 to throw it at some minions, then more often than not people rush her 3 to have the extra health recovery
warped ridge
if they're mega harassing you on you trying to CS then slowing down CS a smidge isn't that bad because ultimately if they're harassing you they aren't CSing
alternatively they might do what I do which is constantly spray bullets between enemy heroes and CS because I can CS well enough
agile void
and Ivy is good against bebop or so because with her 3 the bomb is nullified when she is a statue or he basically loses the combo or has to snatch up to the tower to do real damage
warped ridge
but at that point you're prob not gonna have a good time if you can't match it somehow because usually if I'm doing that well enough and they run behind cover I can CS and deny without needing to focus too hard on either
but rarely do I get that much of an easy lane
EG this is probably the worst laning phase I've ever had when comes to fighting people who can out harass
These are my individual stats for the lane
I could take a look at your match to see how the lane actually was but I think I'd need the matchID
primal wolf
miserable rounds tonight
halcyon wagon
I love fighting vindictas dude, its great that they made a hero that just gets to hang back so you have no counterplay
magic summit
agile void
having trouble with the "not dying" of abrams
also the viscous teabagged me in the first death so I proceeded to kill him twice and win the lane
after that well the stats say what happened
I did get to steal rejuv at one point
Oh yeah also wraith was trashtalky, calling bots and so
at one point I pointed out she died 13 times when she boasted
mild flume
I try so hard
rich grove
a success of matchmaking
mild flume
the two worlds 😔
rich grove
the two worlds 😔
us is free
rich grove
we gotta squad up sometime though
I am so sick of trying to deny with 250ms against crackhead kelvin and vindicta players
mild flume
hell yes
rich grove
I'm trying to head to bed early for once unfort
mild flume
no worries
rich grove
I'll take you up on friday tho absent any debacles
mild flume
isn't it like 8pm for you tho
mild flume
yikes
rich grove
totally inexplicable, actually zero reason for my body to do it
mild flume
you should consider waking up later
rich grove
just annoying
mild flume
well fair enough!
primal wolf
lavish grove
So how do you build shiv?
runic cedar
bleed/dash aka first purple then green vice versa if yer getting stomped
lavish grove
Thanks
warm sonnet
Basically, yeah
cursive flicker
warped ridge
lavish grove
Y’all think it’s more important to confirm or deny?
rich grove
denies are actively stealing from the enemy team
so if you have to pick one you generally deny
lavish grove
Ok
warped ridge
In a duo lane you can focus on denying cause you can assume teammate is assisting
In solo I would say focus on confirming
But also
Comes down to skill level, if you're 50/50 on each go for denies yeah since confirms are usually in your favor minus gun advantage
magic summit
Y’all think it’s more important to confirm or deny?
At this current moment there is a slight preference towards the confirmation hit rather than the deny
As far as "if you both hit at near the exact same time who does it go to"
thick walrus
cloud shuttle
You know they say that all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Abrhams and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another Champion, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Vindicta to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Mid, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Vindicta KNOWS she can't beat me and she's not even gonna try!
So Abrhams, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Mid. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Midboss. See Abe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you.
cloud shuttle
So yeah i was playing pocket last night and that silly gif actually really helped my game
was on some of the highest soul counts of the game, and the 2 -> 3 burst combo is so fun
edgy fog
silly gif?
edgy fog
ahhh
pulsar bison
they look so goofy
magic summit
Sometimes I will do that around a corner and only teleport with satchel if I get a hit with my cloak
And if you teleport instantly upon the hit you can usually get a melee off
warped ridge
upbeat perch
tends to happen on patch days
just be glad it's not a tuesday (thx deadlock team to not patch on tuesdays)
rich grove
Added a Soul Generator (like the one in hero sandbox) in the respawn area. Starts spawning orbs at 3 minutes. Each orb is worth 10 souls when shot. (primary purpose for this is cases when you are very close to an item purchase)
weird
I mean I also end up in this situation constantly but