Operation Winter Scar GM thread (Spoilers!)

[runic osprey]

ah, excellent, thank you kindly

[runic osprey]

came up with some quick names, will group them with numbers as I go

Ace: C-??? (Haven't come up with a number) Ouranos
Archer: C-??? Sagittar (of Sagittarius)
Assassin: C-??? Phonoi (spirit of murder)
Assault Grunt: C-20 Creoboros (supposed ancient version of Kerberos)
Barricade: C-??? ??? (Haven't picked a name)
Bastion: C-54 Talos (metal giant defender of crete)
Bombard: C-48 Archimedes (of the "death laser" fame)
Breacher: C-??? Heracles (the guy who always breaks stuff)
Demolisher: C-??? Perses (name literally means destroyer)
Engineer: C-??? Daedalus (the inventor of myth)
Hive: C-80 Ionos (divine founder of the Ionians)
Hornet: C-??? ????
Priest: C-50 Pythia (priestess of apollo)
Pyro: C-53 Helios (god of the sun)
Ronin: C-65: Achilles (greatest swordsman)
Ronin Grunt: C-25 Hector (second-greatest swordsman)
Scourer: C-??? ???
Scout: C-??? Dolon (famed scout of myth)
Seeder: C??? Demeter (goddess of agriculture- a joke about how you "plant" mines)
Specter: EX-??? Orion (mythological hunter)
Support: C-29 Gaidaros (name means donkey, which is what a drone hub is)

will come up with number designations later, and I may have missed a few from Winter Scar, but this is what I got on a real late sunday night, would love to hear other people's thoughts on what I missed, and suggestions for better-fitting names. I kinda clung closer to myth since that's what I'm more familiar with

[low stone]

Archimedes should go to the scourer imo as that's the death laser frame.

[simple timber]

Loving it, though assigning it to Grunt enemies is pretty funny.

[runic osprey]

I really like the idea that the VSAF grunts are older models, explaining why they're one-tap

[runic osprey]

Duly noted! Still getting used to what all the NPCs can do, and it was the first name that came to mind when thinking about "greek artillery"

[civic heart]

Tbh, my inclination for numbers would just be to roll a d100 for each of the numbers and trend some models towards lower numbers if they have the vibe of being older, with newer-seeming ones being later

Also maybe for the Hornets its something for flies or horseflies? Like the one that bit Pegasus and threw it off course in the myths

Maybe if the Scourer gets the Archimedes, something for early catapults could go to the bombard?

[cloud vale]

You could mention the C-53 Helios still has elements of the Genghis MK1 “world killer” to its deigns.

[runic osprey]

finally home now, I think that would just be Myops then? The fly itself didn't have a name

[runic osprey]

I've nearly finished naming, numbering, and doing some little lore blurbs for each of the VSAF NPC mechs- since discord has a character limit, would it be fine if I put my GM notes here with that info and some other ideas I had for SR/WS once I run it for my group?

[runic osprey]

whoopsies I missed the Mirage and the Witch

[runic osprey]

I missed more than that

C-20 Creoboros (Assault Grunt)
C-25 Hector (Ronin Grunt)
C-29 Gaidaros (Support)
C-30 Ouranos (Ace)
C-38 Perses (Demolisher)
C-47 Tyfonas (Rainmaker)
C-48 Polybolos (Bombard)
C-50 Pythia (Priest)
C-53 Helios (Pyro)
C-54 Talos (Bastion)
C-55 Dolon (Scout)
C-60 Kerberos (Assault)
C-61 Demeter (Seeder)
C-62 Heracles (Breacher)
C-63 Sagittar (Archer)
C-64 Ajax (Berserker)
C-65 Achilles (Ronin)
C-66 Kompra (Sentinel)
C-67 Myops (Hornet)
C-75 Daedalus (Engineer)
C-78 Kentauros (Cataphract)
C-80 Ionos (Hive)
C-85 Phonoi (Assassin)
C-89 Polyphron (Barricade)
C-92 Olympus (Goliath)
C-97 Hecate (Witch)
EX-100 Archimedes (Scourer)
EX-101 Nemesis (Operator)
EX-102 Orion (Specter)
EX-103 Iris (Mirage)
EX-104 Medusa (Aegis)
T-12 Athas (MBT)
VSAF Squad

it is done

[mossy path]

Hello!
I'm preparing to run Operation: Solstice Rain, and would like to check if there are any events in Operation: Winter Scar that work better if certain events occur in Solstice Rain (e.g. letting the Vestan Sovereignty forces escape with one of either Captain Farris or Ambassador Bannerjee a the end of Combat 5: Leviathan). Any advice would be much appreciated:)

I'm uncertain whether I will run Winter Scar, but would like to be in the best position to continue the campaign from Solstice Rain if my players want to

[low stone]

There are ways to make anything work, but I think having them at least hear about project TARTARUS in OSR could be fun

[civic heart]

I'm personally a big fan of setting up Sorvan Kiros as something of a long-term rival for the party with a few small moments

• In the opening scene, I have him clearly be the one to shoot the party's dropship down, with the PCs getting a glimpse of him teleporting onto the wing of another ship, firing off the beam that takes down their dropship, and vanishing. Not a super personal interaction, but it should set up some intrigue.
• When the party gets to the first downtime at FOB Saber, if they mention it, other Leandric and Union soldiers might have some stories about the same frame popping up, but nobody knows much beyond it being an unrecorded model that's weirdly advanced
• When they actually fight him for the first time, his mech teleports the pilot out as part of getting destroyed, giving him that chance to slip away
• Doesn't show up much for the first mission of Winter Scar, but might make an appearance during the 6-month downtime
• Later, it'll be revealed that he's the one running security on The Typhon, and he'll probably have a bit of a vendetta against the PCs as soon as he sees their frames boarding the ship
• PCs actually get a chance to kill him for real in the Kentauros fight, where he'll be more interested in playing aggressively and killing them than in protecting the ship, just getting real mad over comms

[mossy path]

I hadn't thought about setting him up as a long-term villain, but I was wanting to make him more present in OSR, so he's foreshadowed for the end. I may try this though, that's a really cool idea. I love having him shoot down the PCs dropship too.
Here were some of my ideas:
-When the PCs recover the targeting module for winning Combat 1, he can briefly be heard over the enemy comms before realising the squad is down: "-Repeat, were there any survivors from target four, and have they been eliminated? Respond. You better not be getting squeamish on me, corporal. If I have to execute two soldiers today, I will."
-Same as your idea about having stories from the soldiers about the weird vanishing mech in FOB Saber. If they have kept the radio, possibly even have a conversation with him, or if the false alarm downtime event occurs, one of the PCs could glimpse his mech before it vanishes (though that is risking the players wanting to immediately go out and hunt for him)
-Have Rio intercept Sovereignty radio chatter during Beat 3, in which they hear him commanding troops to get the troops back to friendly territory
I think adding in him personally shooting down the PC dropship will be the perfect amount of set-up alongside two of these options. The alternative, rather than having Kiros be a returning villain, is to have the players hear the voice of his superior communicate with him, and having them appear as a villain in OWS (which I have not got yet, to be clear)

[civic heart]

Oh yeah, I do also think that, depending on if you're doing a session before combat 1 takes place, giving the party some time to bond with their dropship pilot, who then gets evaporated by Kiros can be a nice touch, but that needs a bit of breathing room to work

Also a notable thing is that Vasil Gerou would have worked with him in the past as a member of The Furies, so he might have some insight or stories

[mossy path]

100%. If nothing else, just a bit of banter and a name while the PCs are choosing their mechs and during lift-off, to give them some personality. Tbh I feel like often less is more when it comes to getting players to care about a short-term NPC like this. I would in that case give the players the chance to save them if they ask to during the crash, but only if they ask to in time. I was thinking you could throw in a Vehicle reserve for Leviathan too if they manage to get them to safety.

[civic heart]

Yeah that could work! The Ship template for NPCs is kinda perfect, maybe using a support or rainmaker base class, though I do think it'd be reasonable to restrict that NPC to the first or second combat of mission 4 to avoid throwing a full spacecraft into the mix for the final boss

I will also say, having run a lot of shithead rival NPCs (Especially in the Shadow of the Wolf module recently), one of the best things you can do to sell one is just leave comms open for some mutual shit-talking during the fight, especially with all of the bullshit abilities an Ultra can pull out to insta-clear conditions and whatnot

In Golden Flame did a fun little writing thing for that by attaching a different line of real shithead dialogue to each of the Ultra enemies' abilities

[low stone]

Just one quick note on all this : Kiros already is the one to shoot down the PCs, it's just that it's only implied, and not really spelled out.

[civic heart]

Yeah, I basically just think it works to spell it out, even if it doesn't neccesarily 100% make sense for passengers on a dropship to see the source of the fire that brings them down. Players are more likely to remember a weird mysterious enemy frame aura farming in midair than they are to remember the specific type of artillery fire that brought their ship down

[low stone]

Ofc ofc

[simple timber]

His gimmick is big laser, and I try to play the same laser sfx. (Doubt my players remember it 6 sessions later but I do remind them the noise is familiar).

And yeah, Winter Scar mentions if your players don't beat him in OSR he can appear later. Otherwise if they do, I just make the tank commander siblings to the boss.

Taken from someone elses idea.

[mossy path]

Never noticed that, that's really cool

[vernal narwhal]

The story behind that is that when doing the art for the dropship being shot down, the initial call was just to have it being downed by missiles, but EM Fields added the big energy beam slicing the engine off on his own. When I realized that lined up with Kiros later on down the line, I adjusted the text in that part of the module to account for it

[waxen wagon]

To bounce off this I've had great success with making Rezmira a twin and having their sibling be the tank commander to give the encounter a little more personal punch! Also that much more ruthless that they're left behind while the ship launches, knowing they're sent to their death.

Ive seen musings here and there about folks introducing Rezmira (ows pilot of the Kentarous, final boss) in Solstice Rain during the invasion, but I don't know what became of any of those concepts. Having run OSR several times now, I don't think there's a graceful way to tie her in specifically since she'd likely be a target for the party, and her presence would take away from Kiros.

I do like, however, making it known to players by scan or dialogue or otherwise that not all the Furies are present in Nov Elysia, implying that Kiros doesn't even have his whole posse with him, meaning he's not the baddest of the bunch. The others are back in Angopolis, getting ready for the main event, so that might help tie in things from Winter Scar for your players, knowing there are still other members of this spec ops group somewhere else, doing something that is somehow MORE important than this invasion.

[runic osprey]

more of a solstice rain question, but does anyone have any art or token that they used to represent the Bus in "Look Both Ways"?

[simple timber]

There's one posted in the solstice rain thread.

[runic osprey]

Ah, which thread? I did a quick scan and couldn't find it

[runic osprey]

Is this a retrograde mini?

(Thank you kindly though)

[simple timber]

It looks like it, I got it from someone else on here.

[runic osprey]

Ah, ok- only asked because I feel like I scoured the site for a bus and came up empty-handed

[surreal stag]

Its from the discord rather than the site

[wild sun]

I've done the twin thing, except instead of tank commander I made the other twin pilot an Ace with the system that lets him gtfo instead of dying. He escaped three times before they finally annihilated him with a fully charged Thunder God Mjolnir shot (and the escape system was destroyed) which made for an excellent moment of catharsis.

[simple timber]

Where did you put that Ace combat wise?

[wild sun]

He first showed up in a home-brewed train heist mission I did, then again in the OWS point crawl (twice, players get to repair, so do important NPC's) and finally in Angels Grave which was the final fight in my point crawl version of OWS

[opal sedge]

I don't have the book in front of me atm, because I'm out of the house, so if the answer is in the book, I'm willing to accept a "it's in the book" as an answer.

But what is the crew capacity of the Rio Grande? I am terrible at scale, and while I want to say "5000" feels like a reasonable number (including pilots, marines, engineers, and everyone else) but I would believe as low as 1000 and upwards of 10k.

[wild sun]

I don't think the books specify the exact crew compositions or even sizes of the ships in lancer, but I've been working with the idea that frigates (like the Rio) have about 500 crew on board, about half of them pilots or marines for her Wings.

My impressions from the books and other stuff Kai has said like this is that a frigate is about half a kilometre long and has around 500 crew members, while a battleship is about a full kilometre and can have around 1000-2000 crew and carriers are in between

And the Rio is frigate sized despite being a carrier

[heavy prairie]

Large ship the size of a small ship

Or medium ship ig

[surreal stag]

For a current analog, aircraft carriers are 2k-5k people and that's without mechs and their support personnel.

[runic osprey]

not sure if I'm missing something, but for the Special Delivery map there's no enemy deployment zone, but four Ingress Zones- I suppose to just use these as the EDZ?

actually, giving it a look, there's no enemy deployment zone on the maps for Special Delivery, Gatecrashers, and Hell's Heart

[vernal narwhal]

Please refer to the sitrep rules in the core rulebook

Special Delivery is a holdout, holdouts have starting NPC deployment and reinforcement zones all function the same way

[runic osprey]

ah, ok, so I just misunderstood it again, thank you!

[crimson canopy]

What ship category would the Typhon roughly compare to?

[stoic sorrel]

"Sitting somewhere between a cruiser and a frigate" is what the book says

[crimson canopy]

Thanks, Dusty, I failed to find that info (but then it's 3 am)

[vernal narwhal]

yeah the typhon is basically its own weird thing but it sits somewhere in that valley. Against an actual proper wider galactic-tier frigate it would lose, though it's so excessively overgunned it could do some damage on the way out

[runic osprey]

after spending maybe too much time prepping, I think I'm ready. I ended up missing even more NPCs like the Sniper, and I turned all the grunts in the module into their own unique units. I'll probably do something similar anytime I tackle something like KTB, Harrison, and so-on. Here's my "overview" of Cressidium- I feel like maybe I need to move the sun even further back/make it a different color so it doesn't get confused with a moon? But even without playing around with the token appearances too much, I feel like I've done a good job positioning things so that it's a good enough "loading screen" while I prep some other stuff

obviously, the Typhon will be hidden from the player POV during play until Winter Scar

I'll also post my full GM notes once I've run my groups through SR/WS. Depending on how much they enjoy things, I might run some T2 and T3 stuff now that I've gotten comfortable playing around with NPCs. I've got a couple of ideas for some missions against the VSAF after the Typhon's destruction, as well as having Harrison Armory come by to be the final antagonist for T3. If those encounters don't materialize for my group, I'll still try putting them together so that other folks can be inspired.

[limber edge]

Here is the color version of the same bus

[runic osprey]

ah, thank you!

[opal sedge]

Huh. I just noticed that the GM tips for Mission 1 combat 3 lists the commander template making the priest +1 stress/structure and some more optionals, but the actual notes give the MBT commander, and the preist Elite

[vernal narwhal]

Probably a holdover from when those were swapped

[simple timber]

Does the MBT's draw a line thing work against melee attacks if they are not adjacent to the MBT? So it gains 6 armour against the attack?

It does just mention attacks so I figured so.

[vernal narwhal]

attacks is attacks

swords gotta flank too

[opal sedge]

your self destructing mechs also need to flank too.

(The self destruct only did 4 damage 😭)

[meager radish]

So I'm thinking it's likely my PCs are going to lose Wake the Furies and, if they end up surrendering, Captain Farris is going to be captured (Bannerjee is gonna be consider surplus to requirements in a pinch), I discussed this win the gm-corner but I'm wondering about the ramifications of Farris being a PoW for the Vestians.
I think the big one is the founding of Task Force Indigo will be a LSA led initiative. Kim still is given full clearance for oversight, but I can imagine him being a less active participant.

I'm also definitely gonna have to put in a mission to rescue Farris between Mission 1 and 2. i was thinking of having one involving the PCs escorting the dismantled printer to their base, but saving Farris is probably more of an important mission

Kim is gonna go through a depression arc for sure

[karmic harness]

It is hinted during OWS that Brigid Farris was captured because of what she knew as a Union Captain. As it pertains to TARTARUS.
For them being unable to rescue her before they make away with her - the ramifications are absolutely a less depowered TARTARUS. As it is, it's an absolute mess that no one knows what's keeping it operational. This can cascade into making the skill checks between OWS Part 2 combat 1 and 2 harder. Or them just flat out not having the opportunity to do the thing that takes away a deployment zone between Part 2 combats 2 and 3 for example.
It could add more reinforcements to the pool.
It could drop an Operator into the combat or a Mirage, something more high tech. As they use her knowledge to better prepare TARTARUS prior to the event.

While Captain Farris was important to Indigo, Union likely has a hand in forming it with both Union mechanized chassis personnel (including the players) and LSA units as well as Vestans who are disillusioned and tired of the crap their own nation is doing. So have the LT (Kim) have a hand in it instead.

As for rescuing Farris - There's already a map for the submarine, you could repurpose that map and change the Sitrep, or keep it the same and repopulate the combat with a different spread of Vestan styled NPC's. Maybe they're transporting Farris to the Angopolis Aerospace Facility pre TARTARUS event and the Vestan Resistance (or maybe even Avel the Vestan NHP who is fleeing and asking for sanctuary) - and by extension Task Force Indigo gets wind of the transportation of personnel and that Farris is one of them. Bam - submarine siege rescue mission!

[simple timber]

How did you apply the green filter and crt effect? I've been trying to emulate it but my green is really off; lol.

[meager radish]

Thanks, this is all great stuff!! It would be cool to do a submarine rescue sequence...I might still put that between mission 1 and 2, maybe they're planning to move Farris onto the TARTARUS on the next resupply. But yeah, definitely will leave it in a better shape when the PCs force the launch than without her...

[karmic harness]

I have spent the last 2 years writing, rewriting, and weaving together Solstice Rain and Winter Scar into a larger narrative that will take my players from LLs 0 - 12 and incorporate Solstice Rain, Winter Scar, Siren's Song, Dustgrave, and then culminate in Wallflower Acts 1 and possibly 2+3 (but what we have of 2 and 3 is rough. Very rough.) Having an arching plotline that connects all this together has been wonderful.

So I have had a lot of time to read through little nuances in the fiction and such. Especially for Solstice Rain and OWS as I've run that segment for 2 different groups now.

I am so glad that was helpful!

[meager radish]

That sounds amazing, I've been wondering myself how to weave some of the other modules in with this, wishing you the best of luck, though it sounds like you've got a firm handle on it regardless!

[karmic harness]

It's been helpful to run through and see where there's certain holes or things for sure. My greatest issue is investing them in what's happening outside of Cressidium. After spending 2 missions and 12 combats there - making contacts etc, why would they want to leave? Apparently an Aunic prophecy about an NHP revolt turning into something far far worse (the ripple effect of a cascading O/K down on Hercenia), isn't quite enough.

That said, a lot of the modules I mentioned deal with (shocker) the abbhorent treatment of NHPs when no one's looking.

Both Siren's Song and Dustgrave have heavy themes about that. Wallflower being the most .... "Oh, yea this is bad". So I've tied all those together. Spent Solstice Rain and Winter scar getting them invested in the Shipboard Thalassa class NHP Rio and give them an enemy (someone actually pulling the strings of the Vestan Sovereignty Armed Forces in an attempt to get their hands on a pair of crashed Aun) to chase. They spend SR trying to get back Captain Farris and the 2 Aun who crashed (instead of bannerjee who was just a honorable mention in my campaign). When they recover the Captain after Wake the Furies SR combat 6 - they also recover the pair of Aunic ecclesiarchs they were trying to steal away with in the submarine. Who in turn give the Lancer squad a prophecy from the stars. Something about finding the Six Guiding Lights and preventing unshackled bonds from losing control blah blah blah. This is a direct mention of the MSMC G-Sec team Lighthouse from the Siren's Song Narrative.

From there, we can take either the Professor Doctor, or Tomo Odechi (Tomo works better here because of the blackmail material you discover if you poke around the ACA that tells you Tomo is trying to use CHAGA to evolve humanity into some godlike form) and have them be in cahoots with Doctor Victor Virga from Dustgrave. Insert more crimes against NHPs for the sake of ascending to godhood here per the Dustgrave narrative.

I also made Spec Ops Unit 33 make a return on Dustgrave. I don't think I want to replace the Talons with them, but I think the combat in the elevator shaft where you're supposed to fighting the Talons will be a run in with SOU 33 . Could even throw Sorvan Kiros and/or Batea Rezmira-Kiros (who I turned in to his older sister) at them again. And then have the Talons pose a partnership afterwards. Which makes more sense than "Sorry we tried to kill you back there, let's be friends? We might stab you in the back later and take all your stuff but hey...what are friends for?"

That just leaves them heading to the root of all of this. Hercynia. Which stopping Victor Virga from ascending should lead them to. Because the ripple effect of the awaking and subsequent cascading of O/K is what drove Virga to even attempt this idea in the first place. He just thinks it was his idea.

[meager radish]

That sounds really interesting! I'll definitely have to read Dustgrave, I got a copy a while back but never got round to giving it a proper once over, but sounds like it touches on a bunch of stuff I've wanted to touch on with a vague module idea I've considered...

I have wondered about "further adventures on Cressidium", maybe fighting further into the VSA or peacekeeping operations after the war, though being Union pilots being told "you're getting assigned somewhere else" is maybe a fair outcome

I did also consider them getting seconded to UIB to get them to Siren's Song, though that was more born of a player having the Technophile talent

[junior imp]

i wrote myself into a corner recently, so i'm adding dustgrave to my game as well. Though they know they're hunting Virga from the outset

Gonna have it so that Virga was a scientist forced to work on TARTARUS and days before it was set to launch they fucked off to Okasnia

Okasnia is where i'm putting Port Conroy, possibly replacing the Talons with SO33 but i might just have SSC show up anyway with their denial asset group just to mix things up and say they want Virga's nonsense as well

[karmic harness]

Yea a lot of this is VERY able to be written in to "This just happens elsewhere on Cressidium"

I didn't go that route but, it's not a far reach to replace these events from the planet they happen to Cressidium instead.

I think it shouldn't apply to Wallflower. The fact that it happens on Hercynia and that's a widely mentioned lore point both in several mechs/systems flavor text and the ongoing narrative is important. This needs to happen on Hercynia

The rest are...eh

[karmic harness]

Yea I'm for sure having them both show up. They're important for later.

[vernal narwhal]

This isn't to really suggest anything about anyone's games one way or another, but I do think an underexplored/considered element of running a lancer campaign is just going "this all takes place within one particular setting, not jumping from planet to planet"

[meager radish]

For sure, I guess it makes sense most people would focus on their own cool settings, but longer term stuff on one planet/setting is underrepresented

Honestly doing peacekeeper activities against insurgent Sovereignty forces could be a cool focus

De-Second Committee ification

[vernal narwhal]

"Post-war Cressidium" is genuinely an extremely good setting for DoJ/HR stuff, like it's 100% within their remit

[waxen wagon]

Not at my desk rn so I'll try to explain best I'm able, sorry I didn't catch this earlier this weekend when you had asked!

Basically the base image sits on bottom layer, make a new layer with green, set it to overlay. You'll likely have to mess around with whatever version of green you want specifically (moss colored, more lime, etc etc) and even try other layer types, like "color" or "hard light".

Once you've got the right mix of green (be it by color finding or stacking layers of different greens until it's perfect) then you just take your crt filter and slap it on top of everything.

It can help to have a grainy base image so it looks like the crt is more natural, as well as adding a very small vignette around the edges for a "rounded corners" feel that an actual crt would provide

[meager radish]

So my players did something I didn't expect: they surrendered to Kiros and negotiated to be taken prison rather than Farris and Bannerjee. Genuinely did not expect it at all but they were so down for the idea I let it ride.
Now I've gotta plan a new beginning mission where they stage a jailbreak

One of them left Farris and Bannerjee with their Servant NHP then took the 2nd rank of the talent, so I'm thinking their NHP is the one who brings their new mechs to them when they bust out

The player told them to lay low and asked Farris not to let anyone mess with her mech, but now their NHP has reached proper sentience she's gonna disobey and formally enroll in the Union military while the PCs are in prison

[limber edge]

How did they convince Kiros that they were more valuable prisoners than the leading Union representatives?

Also why was "no surviors," Kiros even willing to negotiate with the PCs?

[meager radish]

I ended up changing the characterisation of Kiros a bit, sort of by accident, so he's more of a cock-sure preener who gave them the option to surrender before the fight.
Their argument was they were actual combat veterans with relevant knowledge of orbital operations, kinda made Farris sound like a pencil pusher rather than an actual commander.

I'll admit I fudged the reasoning a bit, but I think it's suitably dramatic to warrant it

[low stone]

They do need space-trained combattants too, yeah

[cloud vale]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-combat-7-alicorn-submarine-surface-captain-torres-gif-11902111770875056058

[meager radish]

Is this that sub from Ace Combat?

[cloud vale]

Yep the alicorn from Ace Combat 7 DLC

[meager radish]

CRISP. WHITE. SHEETS.

Actually, maybe having them be prisoners on a submarine would be cool...

[meager nexus]

Interesting; Did all of the players surrender? Some things come to mind:

• Page 83/84 deals with pilot cloning. You could spin new copies up of the player characters on the Rio Grande, and give them a bunch of quirks.
• You could have them create new low-LL pilot characters as other union personnel try to use their mechs (perhaps adding a difficulty to the first few rounds of their next combat).

But I also think if the former players were squirreled away in Vestan territory, and forced to work on the Typhon/brainwashed: they could even become villains to deal with later on. It could be a focus for Task Force Indigo, and a driving narrative reason to work with LSA: let's get our people back.

[meager radish]

Yep, all of them! They were basically of the attitude "all in this together". They seemed pretty stoked to be doing a prison break, so I think I'll run some narrative sessions to work through their time as PoWs, thinking of watching the Great Escape this weekend for inspiration

[meager nexus]

I think thats a cool idea, and an opportunity to show more sympathetic Vestan sides of the story too

A prison guard talks about his new nephew, or some other characterizations

[meager radish]

Yeah, as well as probably Vestian dissidents and resistance members. I think this actually be a good opportunity to introduce Vasil early, he's been captured and can take part in the prison break

[native gazelle]

So my players and I want to start here what’s the worst outcome for the previous module?

[stoic sorrel]

Probably the Captain and Ambassador being captured, maybe Nov Elysia broken and conquered

[native gazelle]

Ooohhh

[scarlet lava]

If I were to use Kai’s rebaked NPCs for OWS would I need to change any of the combat encounters or would the balance be mostly the same? I’m also considering doing a mission in the interlude between the two modules to get the party to LL3 which will need its own balancing changes

[simple timber]

I'm currently testing it by running a single tier 2 enemy in the first OWS mission and then two tier 2 enemies in the next one.

The PC's still mostly just wreck them.

Maybe should also include an additional NPC, just duplicate a lowkey one?

[scarlet lava]

Have many players have you got?

Mine are 5* new players, 2 definitely will be more optimised than the others so don’t wanna smash them

[waxen wagon]

I run six with one party and five with another, both with Rebakes.

The encounters in the book I've tried not to change too much in the spirit of running it as close to as intended as possible, my party of six gets another npc enemy or one of them gets a veteran/elite template to buffer, but my OWS is far less linear and has extra optional encounters for a point crawl, so I can count on attrition elsewhere.

The book encounters I have run all feel fine tho (if a little tepid, they're not hard) , the beach assault is fairly inoffensive to the party and shouldn't bother them much

[scarlet lava]

Nice, thank you 🙂

[waxen wagon]

Of course! I should further add that my party of six wasn't the most optimized group, made some interesting plays (not always for the better) and had a rough time with the first leg of winter scar mechanically (were definitely hanging on by a thread after the tank commander) but the five man group I'm running now has a better game sense about them, and are 1 1/2 combats in thus far, the beach game them NO issues (not a structure stress loss between any of them) and so far in combat 2 only a couple of them are jn danger of losing some structure/stress

To better give you an idea of attrition/skill/wear and tear

[brittle tusk]

As a question: I’ve been looking at Order of Leander and considering how GMS has like. 0 direct support core bonuses.

If I made Order of Leander a regular core bonus outside the context of the module, would that be a bad idea?

[stoic sorrel]

The consensus seems to be that it kinda sucks anyway

But I haven't seen it in action :3 So this is just rumours

[brittle tusk]

Really? It’s an Overshield distributor that you can re-use each scene but I suppose if that’s the consensus

[low stone]

I don't know where that consensus comes from

It's actually just good value if :

• you don't have anything better to do with your CB (more common than you'd think in a good amount of builds)
• you're already doing support anyways

Actionless reactionless accuracy and occasional OS dispensing is not bad, I don't care what you say.

[vernal narwhal]

is it?

would love to know where these consensus keep coming from

searching the server going back one year and weirdly I don't see a lot of "this kinda sucks"

[stoic sorrel]

My bad

I was in like one conversation where someone said that it's difficult to use and I haven't been in any other conversations about it.

[brittle tusk]

I mean… you just use it on the first d20 roll you see and then go from there

[stoic sorrel]

brb i'm gonna go throw up for being a dumb cunt

[low stone]

To be fair, it is not applicable to every situation (like every Core Bonus ever, save maybe reinforced frame). Case in point, in the playtest I ran back in the day a player put it on a lich. It didn't perform that well.

But in a lycan, a Sag, or even a Toku ?

Now you're cooking.

[modest turtle]

Order of Leander is a slightly weird one cause the only build I could see myself angling for it with is an Emperor; but as an exotic it's not meant to be something you 'angle' for anyways, I guess

[vernal narwhal]

It seems to get messed with a fair bit in various mech hangar builds, sometimes people recommend an alternative, other times people suggest it

"it's not a universally applicable core bonus" is very fair but it's also not really meant to be

the big upside of it in application is that the effect is actionless, there's no real cost to using it outside of the cost of taking the core bonus itself, so there's no interfering with the rest of your turn. It's not even really an action, which means you can use it even while Stunned

It probably counter-synergizes with support playstyles that want to avoid direct combat as much as possible given the "do it again if you take structure damage" clause, though my stance on things like this (and the lycan) is that "taking structure damage" isn't really a gameplan in lancer so much as an inevitability, it's hard to play well enough to just avoid getting structured ever unless you're doing something like Hiding 90% of the time

[low stone]

Or being a lich.
I just had much better targets. And bad target priority.

[vernal narwhal]

The big ask is "take in place of another core power" and if someone's all in on the striker lifestyle then yeah they're probably spoken for with overpower caliber, autostabilizing hardpoints, heatfall, superior by design, etc

outside of that though, "what core bonus do I pick here, nothing's speaking to me" is far from an uncommon occurrence for a lot of builds

[brittle tusk]

I mean not every core bonus is compatible with every frame. Try putting Improved Armament on a Gorgon

Anyway what I’m hearing here is “making it a regular core bonus would do very little harm”

Also I fail to see how “making a d20 roll have accuracy and granting overshield” is not applicable in every situation. Yes the structure element isn’t going to be too common but imo that’s more of a bonus than anything

[low stone]

(like every Core Bonus ever, save maybe reinforced frame)
like I said, yeah

[low stone]

I guess "not applicable" was a bit too harsh yeah; it's more a case of really not getting the full value out of it

[brittle tusk]

The thing is the full value is a. As much accuracy as possible (most of the time anything past 1 or 2 is kinda unnecessary), and b. Getting a second use out of it (like Kai said, losing structure is more of an inevitability than anything)

And here the main value comes from a. Helping the roll prompted succeed (if you're smart about picking the right rolls this is inconsequential), and b. Giving overshield (which is guaranteed)

[native gazelle]

Is there a map of Cressidium somewhere I could have?

[covert flint]

There isn't an official one but there are these fan made ones:
#1271639713559871558 message

[native gazelle]

Hell yeah thank you!

[native gazelle]

So knowing what my party has done in the past I genuinely fear for the Typhon.
There is a 70% chance the party leaves the system with a second ship, a 19.9% chance they turn the Typhon into a dirty bomb and ride it into the Vesten Capital, a 10% chance they do something completely unexpected, and a 0.1% chance they do as the module intends

The Vestans may be playing checkers but my player are playing fucking homeworld

[low stone]

19.9% chance they turn the Typhon into a dirty bomb and ride it into the Vesten Capital,
and sentence millions of innocents for no particular reason, leading them to be instantly court-martialed to the worst punishment Union still has ?

I cannot overstate how much every living and dead thing will want them wiped off the face of reality if they do this

And that's without counting the planet-wide ecological disaster that would be

That's maybe the highest amount of people you could kill to do nothing and not even end the war. Plus you'd end up justifying the Vestans perfectly, and making everyone on the planet want to join their side or at least not be on Union's anymore

[native gazelle]

Guarantee the excuse for the dirty bomb will be it was already in a terminal orbit we tried but we couldn’t stop it

(This is the same party who kicked a Ghengis mk 1 out the back of the contingency white ship onto the head of beggar one)

[low stone]

Don't rofl me man, come on. Unless that's the vibe of the table, I am telling you with all the seriousness I am capable of that this goes tonally and morally very against the whole Thing of the Lancer universe pretty much as much as it is possible to do so. And even if that's the vibe of the table that's like. Mass murder.

like, doing this would be Just Evil Because. Like this makes the PCs unquestionably evil.

[native gazelle]

What that the machine built to control and conquer will be the undoing of those who use it? Just like second committee who lost because they used the Ghengis to attempt to control and subjugate people? Or the trade baronies and their use of knights and mechs under a veil of honor and pomp to police and control their population who only through the work of the population allows them that luxury?

Any way the original post was a joke hence why I responded with a rofl because my party is a bunch of chaos clowns who enjoy watching the explosions in Gundum as much as the politics of it

[heavy prairie]

Are you really justifying mass civilian casualties with "well, it'd be poetic justice man"?

[native gazelle]

If you want the blast to kill untold numbers of civilians then you can have it kill untold numbers of civilians. If you want the resistance to get warm the city an the only ones who stay behind are the corrupt politicians who believe themselves above everything then you can do that! It’s your story and your narrative you shape it how you want

We are dms we tell the story we want to tell with the help of the players

[waxen wagon]

I think that, as others have voiced, even if this is the case and you can hazard a guess that your players are going to attempt more egregious war crimes than even the hardliners themselves are doing rn, it's definitely worth mentioning to your players their characters lives are in an hourglass and union will be hunting them down until the end of time for their transgressions

Of course, your table, your rules yadda yadda, but the spirit of the entire adventure is to help save Cressidium from the ghosts of seccom that still haunt its people, not prove to them that thirdcomm is just as unstructured or unruly and arguably, in some cases, worse

Of course if it's all just a joke then it's all moot who doesn't love a good explosion but maybe more mercenary focused work in their future characters would be ideal

[low stone]

The problem is that the tens to hundreds of millions of civilians in the city aren't those who built the thing, those who want to conquer anything.
Also, Seccomm notably won where they deployed the Ghengis.

[native gazelle]

Yes as I said before it was all supposed to be a joke about my chaos clowns

And how they soon might be rolling around in a brand spanking new warship

Or all die

[waxen wagon]

Which tbh with or without a crew they'll probably die just flying the thing, the cruiser is reportedly barely held together with duct tape and a dream and is overgunned, overtuned, and the ONLY reason it stands any threat is there isn't anything like it on Cressidium and the Rio Grande, despite having the tactical edge with Rio, is out gunned.

I can't imagine the thing is even really capable of any sustained space travel at sublight speed or otherwise to even MAKE it to a blink gate. It's telling that the hardliners just bully Cressidium in orbit all day because I seriously doubt they could leave or even reasonably threaten anything like an actual warship

[native gazelle]

Now this is something I can get behind! Could be fun for the party to try and have a fixer upper or at least the bones of one by the time Union gets there

[waxen wagon]

Id probably lean towards the crew of the Rio Grande wanting to scuttle the thing as well as like the entirety of Cressidium for its crimes against its people, in so far as probably zero people on the planet or in its immediate vicinity would probably be keen to the party hanging onto it as a pet project, but hey

[low stone]

I could see an argument to take control of it until reinforcements arrive, because shoddy as it is it's still a significant tactical advantage and having it on Union's side could make a similar stalemate impossible, but that's a lot of effort for a pretty objectively Bad Ship, and it's the only thing capable of rivaling the Rio Grande so just taking it out works out to about the same while being much more feasable

No one on Union's side's gonna be mad at them if they manage to take the ship, but compromising the mission just for that is strategically unsound and highly improbable. That established, the decision of presenting this as A Possibility That Could Actually Happen to your players or not is now entirely in your hands

(also, to give context for my earlier kneejerk reaction, in case you aren't aware there is in fact [a rule against this kind of thing](#the-rules message) here. [Two](#the-rules message) even, but that one isn't immediately relevant.)

[native gazelle]

Definitely see some sort of challenge for the party making their case to keep it

Since as the module says this doesn’t end the war

[meager radish]

I had ohr first session of my players in a Vestian military jail, after transport via a submarine. I'm calling it an Intermission between SR and WS. So far they're not taking it too seriously, I think when they encounter Gerou (will be transferred there a few months into their interment pending interrogation and then execution) might shake a bit out of them since I'm planning to play it incredibly straight

[sterile marsh]

Sorry for the necro, but this IMHO is the kind of thing where the GM can really easily justify to the players that "no, you don't get to keep the warship". To draw a modern parallel, this is like a squad of fighter jet pilots from a NATO country arguing with the captain of their aircraft carrier that they should, in fact, be allowed to keep command of a captured nuclear powered guided missile cruiser that is hilariously unstable.

Like, this isn't even a conversation that any commanding officer would even entertain for 30 seconds IRL

[low stone]

The only valid argument there really is in favor of the thing is "reinforcements are 2+ years away and the war won't be over until then", which, fair, but also, it's the backbone of the entire Vestan... Everything. So taking it out vs. taking control of it won't really have outcomes that different

[sterile marsh]

Yeah, sure. That's an argument for not scuttling the thing, though. That's not an argument for handing control of a warship over to 4 or 5 people, even if they are Lancers.

I also don't think it should be in any way realistic for the ship to be operable with less than a couple hundred crew, especially if it was damaged.

The far, far more likely outcome is that either Lt. Kim or an LSA officer is given command of it

Because, y'know, chains of command

[native gazelle]

So due to some shenanigans with Solstice Rain ending Lox is over run the captain and ambassador was never rescued so RIO is the highest ranking member of Union Navy right now

The chain of command right now is let’s say pretty much fucked and in chaos

Would RIO let them keep it?

[sterile marsh]

My 2 cents is that Union would never put an NHP in sole command of a warship either, but that aside... no, I really doubt it

The Rio Grande will have dozens of other officers below Cpt. Farris and Lt. Kim. Most if not all of those are more appropriate to command a warship than a mech pilot is.

[native gazelle]

Kim is MIA

[sterile marsh]

Just because the module only talks about 2 officers doesn't mean those are the only 2 officers on the ship

[native gazelle]

What rank are lancers?

Honest question

[sterile marsh]

No one is going to stop you from running your game the way you like, I'm just giving my personal opinion on a "realistic" approach to the situation

I don't think we have a clear answer to that. I'd expect they would be officers, but probably the lower ranks. Mostly lieutenants?

But this does also come down to training. I'll point to my example of fighter jet pilots again - it would take some seriously extreme situation for a fighter pilot to get put in command of a ship

Because they have no bloody idea how to operate a ship

Like, "every naval officer is dead or incapacitated, there are no competent enlisteds available either" type serious

And if your crew is that seriously decimated, I don't think it's a reasonable idea to try to also crew a 2nd ship

It should get scuttled or turned over to the LSA in that case

It actually should probably get turned over to the LSA in the first place. Cressidium is their world, not Union's.

[native gazelle]

The plan it they do capture the ship (still a 70% of it actually happening but the players are all battle tech gremlins who love their salvage) is to crew it with LSA troops who want to join union as a foreign legion type outfit under the command of Union officers

If they against all odds follow the module we leave system with the Rio after the party helps take the Vestan Capital and an armistice is signed

Right now we are playing it as EVERYTHING that could go wrong in Solstice Rain went Wrong

Like war went nuclear bad

[heavy prairie]

I frankly don't understand why you're bothering with reaching for realism or verisimilitude when, from how you describe it, your table is going for maximal murder hobo rule of cool, the two are at odds with eachother.

[sterile marsh]

That's true. And if that's the tone you want to go for, then it's your game.

[native gazelle]

Cause my players make me happy and I wanted to share it and ask some questions about how to play it

An expected once I explained it I thought that I’d get some other gms that had similar experiences but instead I get told that my play style is “everything lancer is against”

[low stone]

Tom won't show up to your door to take the game from you even if it was.

In the end, as long as everyone at the table, without exception, is good with it, you do you. The thing I was most concerned about was the potential breaking of a server rule, since that's been cleared up you do whatever you want to

[low stone]

Fun fact : "lancer" isn't actually a rank to begin with ! The same way "ace pilot" or "hero" aren't ranks either; the question ends up being "what ranks are mech pilots" (I, quite frankly, have no clue, but you got an answer for that so you're good already). You wouldn't be hired to a post as a "Lancer" explicitely (though looking for only the best of the best isn't really that hard so it's mostly a formal thing if you really want lancers and nothing else).
I care about this a lot because it being a title you earn is so cool and interesting to me (my characters all have their own interpretations of the term and reactions to being called it for characterization), and also because of the fun fact that OSR opens with "Time to get to work, pilot." while OWS closes with "Time to get to work, lancer." showing just how exceptional the PCs have become over the course of the story and how much they've achieved which is just so much the shit I'm here for.

This isn't meant to be rude or condescending or whatever I'm just really passionate about that part of the setting and find it very cool.
If it does comes off as such I apologise, it's not intended to be.

[limber edge]

How did that happen. Why did Kim leave the Rio?

[simple timber]

Wonder if there is anything the vestan can do to threaten the Rio Grande after winter scar?

Besides some kind of stealth ambush.

[low stone]

Not really, especially with how much it's been staying in the backlines

All its fighters are still operational to take care of their limited navy capabilities (but that already happened) and missiles, and given how hard it's been for them to get one ship to orbit we all but know they don't have a second

And with most all of the personnel that needs to be on the ground there already, the Rio itself doen't have to risk much

[surreal stag]

It was described as that they were pulling resources from everywhere they could just to get the Typhon into space, given that the Rio was largely able to operate in the about 6 months of OSR and OWS until the Typhon launched it doesn't make a ton of sense to me that they can do much. That said, the Rio's also not exactly a significant threat itself, it doesn't appear to have much beyond its strike craft.

[low stone]

And all the marines and mechs that are already deployed

Most significant thing it can do at this point (that it couldn't during the stand-off with the Typhon) is quick-response teams from orbit, wider deployment radius for troops and most importantly allowing its troops to come back upwell for resupply, repairs, and R&R

[simple timber]

I've done the first combat multiple times with the extra LL for my PC's, I think I've reach a good balance point. Just give the Assault tier 2 and swap him with the Hive for 3P reinforcement.

Combat 2 will be T2 Archer and Combat 3 will be T2 Hive.

[simple timber]

Oh, after Winter Scar, what do the Vestan Sovereignty have that even threatens the Rio Grande? I can't imagine any assault would work or affect them.

[drifting sun]

iirc, nothing. The Typhon was their ace in the hole and without that I don't think they can ever really touch the Rio Grande

From OSR we know they can shoot down the fighter craft if the Rio Grande sends them too low but that's about it

[simple timber]

There is a period of 6 months where they do own the world, do you think they could come up with anything during that time?

[heavy prairie]

Real life wet navies have a lead time measured in years for their ships, so even with future manufacturing capabilities I can't imagine spinning up a capable battlespaceship in months

[mossy path]

That's so funny, I love it

The Universe made the decision for you

[runic osprey]

IMO, if you wanted to continue running a plot on Cressidium, I would have Harrison Armory become the new antagonists

run a combat/mission that is set up as "mopping up" the remaining VSAF holdouts, then have HA come in to be political antagonists, while the Rio Grande attempts to police Cressidium while other galactic players like pirates and the ilk come in to try and get a foothold on the planet before the Union reinforcements (and obligatory DOJ/HR unit) get there

[fringe path]

Hey I used your map as a base to create my campaign, made a physical, and political one, may have hyperfocused and produced a timeline too

[dire bramble]

Hell yeah! Looks great

[opal sedge]

Just finished running winter scar last night and it was fantastic. Thank you for a great module.

[vale estuary]

hi hi. i bought the module and im looking through the maps. i cant find any hex gridless maps like OSR has... am i missing something? or its just not a thing for OWS? thank you in advance

[mossy path]

For OSR at least, I’m afraid there aren’t any officially. However, someone in the community did make unofficial gridless maps. I’ll share the link here later. If I don’t send it, spam @ me, lol, I’m forgetful

[vale estuary]

Thank you! Actually I have all three types of maps for OSR.

Official grid. Official gridless. And the unofficial gridless.

I was wondering if OWS has official gridless.

[surreal stag]

The no overlay maps are gridless

Here's the first map in foundry for example, they're in the WinterScarMapsNoOverlay dir in the download

[vale estuary]

Yeah this is what I’m looking for! Il check again. Maybe I just overlooked it

[heavy prairie]

I recall that the person who made the OSR gridless maps was in fact the original artist for them

[urban sand]

Does anyone know the president/commander of the VSAF?

Like their names?

[limber edge]

No official name. Suspect it is a military leader because of the coup.

[urban sand]

Cool, so make up my own.

[old zealot]

my players want to blow up the reactor in the last combat with a linac, im not sure what to do, my current plan is that they can use the linac as the explosive and cut the amount of rounds, or just say no

[simple timber]

I'd just say no, it's not nearly enough damage nor is the reactor less than size 5.

[civic heart]

So while the module generally isn't designed around the idea of someone having a linac, I do tend to tell players that just directly damaging an armed bomb mayyyy not be the best idea (especially given the potential for failsafes), and that if they get it to 0 HP it'll be a cointoss between them instantly winning the sitrep (enemies still want them dead) or them setting the bomb off early, killing the entire party, and getting the worst possible ending on the spot

Usually that risk/reward is enough to make people feel like they're not being forced into one decision while still being bad enough stakes that they're unlikely enough to actually do it

[vernal narwhal]

Just say no

The linac isn't enough to properly do the job required

[old zealot]

thanks

ill just say no

[vernal narwhal]

To be less blunt and reductive about it, the goal of the mission isn't to damage the ship's reactor, it's to set off a cascading chain reaction that will result in the complete destruction of the Typhon. This is a job that requires actual demolition, not just shooting at a glowing weak point. The linac won't do the job, nor will an apocalypse rail, it's the wrong tool for the job

Could shooting it with those things damage the reactor? Sure, but that still doesn't do the job. There's an entire ending outlined in the module which is "the Typhon takes damage during the assault and is out of commission for six months, but then they fix it and it becomes a problem again, so you've bought some time but only kicked the can down the road," and that's what "we shoot it with a linac and leave" would be

This is also why the heroic sacrifice option isn't just "use Self-Destruct and eject from your mech," you have to actually stay and fuck with things to ensure the reactor properly goes critical and, for various reasons bound up in "we don't let NHPs pull the trigger on the guns, we also aren't going to give them the option to mess with the mech's reactor on a whim," you also can't let your NHP die in your place

[karmic harness]

I made mine Vasil's brother.
Because drama! 😲🫢

[urban sand]

Yippe!!!

[karmic harness]

Makes it hit even harder when they kill his son.

[civic heart]

Oh wait I fully misread which module channel this was in, my bad

[old zealot]

thank you for the explanation

[dense harbor]

I cannot delete my message, damn. Sent it in wrong channel.

[wild sun]

I'm about to head into the final mission (assault on the Typhon) with my players, anyone have any advice or recommendations for it beyond what the book has?

[simple timber]

I did a mini warthog run at the end, requiring the PC's to quickly find the exit and get through a bunch of obstacles as the ship counts down.

[waxen wagon]

I've gleamed a little from the module Typhon Unchained (I forget the actual name) and my own overhaul of Winter Scars first half and have made the second half a point crawl where the party can move through the different systems of the Typhon, shutting them down/disabling them for new reserves/npc allies surviving the assault, but at the cost of the final fight being better prepared/better defended.

Because time is still of the essence, it's not as free reign as OSR Remix, and instead a simple branching approach. You only have enough time for one of these objectives/stops, so pick which one you're doing, and then we'll move onto the next stage of the seizure

[arctic briar]

Hi - im running OSR + OWS anf i was hoping for some help regarding the jump from Tier 1 to Tier 2 enemies.

I intend to add a mission between the two modules and one in the 6 month intermission in ows.

That would put the players at LL5 at the start of the final mission of OWS. Is it as simple as just bumping all enemies up to Tier 2? Or is it smarter to keep them in the first Tier and have one of the "in between" missions grant them more exotic gear instead rather than a liscence level?

[low stone]

Missions are usually supposed to reward a LL up after each, but if everyone's fine with it I don't really see why that wouldn't work ? But also just bumping everyone up a tier is just how that's supposed to work so just do that probably.

I don't know if the tier up radically influences this mission specifically more than expected though, but I know plenty of people have also added two missions to the whole of OSR+OWS, so I'll let those who have actually done this tell you more

[vernal narwhal]

the big thing to watch for at Tier 2 is the way certain enemies suddenly jump to getting additional attacks

for example, in mission two of Winter Scar, Special Delivery, there's a fight where two Ronins come in, and at Tier 1 that's fine and normal, at Tier 2 a pair of ronins could be a much more serious problem because now that's four Ronin attacks per round

as long as you're mindful of that particular occurrence, going up a tier is largely just as simple as bumping the enemies up as noted in their statblocks

[arctic briar]

Much appreciated - thank you very much

[drifting sun]

What I did when my group was getting to the T1/T2 threshold was start dropping in one or two T2 enemies per encounter and marking them as "advanced" or some such so the players knew they were more of a threat

[stoic grail]

{anyone have a retrograde sprite for the mbt?}

{i would cut out the one in the book but sonce ive used retrograde sprites for everything itd look out of place}

[vernal narwhal]

Doesn't retrograde have an entire MBT kit?

[limber edge]

@signal junco made this awesome token a while back

[muted cairn]

In our campaign, Vesta's old guard just couldn't fix what had been broken for decades, so now even with Union here, the reaction still hangs on while Union recruits new governments, negotiates, and educates. The revolutionaries and separatists are getting impatient because they keep having to break vindictive blockades and thwart the occasional infiltrators.

Cressidium's major governments are officially pro-Union, but a lot of collective trauma could be forgotten if the VS didn't hold an entire continent to itself.

Both Vestan sides rolled the same numbers twice. Union, IPS-N and SSC all crit.

[simple timber]

What kind of changes would you do to your NPC comp from winter scar for being an extra LL? So LL3 for A Day of Firsts and LL4 for The Typhon?

[wild sun]

Make a few tier 2 instead of tier 1

[simple timber]

I've tested that out actually.

It seems okay so far but I was wondering if anyone had like, just given them a template or something.

[vernal narwhal]

This isn't going to accomplish much tbh

I very strongly do not recommend uptiering enemies as I doubt it's going to give someone what they want out of things, if you want to flesh an encounter out more to account for something like an additional level where players might have a core bonus sooner than expected (such as LL3), I would either use templates like Veteran or Elite (or you could use Commander) or simply add another NPC or even two if you feel like your players need the additional challenge

uptiering enemies makes them "stronger" but it does so in ways that are things like "attacks against them will miss 10% more of the time, they do +2 damage on hit" which is either going to be marginalia or is going to lead to more "welp I missed" and that's about it, nothing particularly challenging or special, the exception being if you do this to a tier-scaling multiattacker then you now have to deal with "oh cool this guy now attacks twice every time they pull the trigger"

[simple timber]

I noticed by The Typhon uptiering two enemies doesn't even seem to do much when they are LL4, especially the first and second sitrep. Those are somehow the easiest sitreps for them. (Even though I send more npcs as reinforcements).

It is also silly that I only just realised you could blow the armoured panel last session.

I have ran that sitrep 5 times now.

I should learn to read.

[vernal narwhal]

Uptiering in general is really only just to keep NPCs on the same number treadmill as PCs

Beyond templates or adding NPCs, you can also do things like add more optionals to existing NPCs if you're up for the additional overhead

[simple timber]

I was reading through tvtropes and saw they reference the Vestan Sovereignty frames as Vestian frame. I kind of like this way of referring to them.

[rapid anvil]

Anyone have any fun suggestions on how to make the launch of the Typhoon a cool experience for the players? I’m running on Foundry and I’d love to hear how some of you made it an awesome, horrifying moment.

[waxen wagon]

Sounds of launch alarms, shaking the screen, I had used a painting of a non descript missile/rocket launch at a distance, and made sure there was very melancholic music playing to punctuate the terrible gravity behind what's just happened

[stoic grail]

{do what i did and make it usher in winter, surely there's lots of smog and shit from the thrusters}

{also give opportunity to have them try to brace, but fail anyways due to the force of it}

{my white witch player tried to root but failed anyways cus nothing mech scale is that strong}

[wild sun]

There's been some really cool art shared for the launch like this one @rapid anvil

I used that one with some rocket sound effects (Saturn V go whoosh)

[river bloom]

Sorry to bother you but I was curious How long has Bannerjee been at cressidium before the Rio Grande arrived? I assume they were dispatched a few months apart.

[vernal narwhal]

They weren't there ahead of the Rio Grande, the Rio Grande is Bannerjee's escort, they traveled together

[river bloom]

My bad I misread a portion of his blurb, thanks for the correction

[twilit falcon]

Good afternoon, I came across some great vestan transport art, but I'm not quite sure what the NPC template should look like?

[civic thistle]

These are fantastic

[surreal stag]

The Vehicle template is the obvious one for me

[high heron]

Im trying to decide which campaign I wanna run next. I found OSR wasn't as narrative-focused as I might have liked. Since Winter Scar is kind of a sequel, is it the same way?

[simple timber]

It does have a nice beat after the first and second sitrep but those do require a level of work on your part to expand it.

[river bloom]

those are really pretty models thanks for sharin

[dire bramble]

I think Winter Scar has a bit more narrative stuff to sink your teeth into: it's honestly got a lot of stuff that you can drop hints of in/use as a basis for fleshing out bits of Solstice Rain

[civic heart]

Yeah winter scar is still pretty light, but it does have more going on, including one HELL of a compelling character beat

SOTW is still what I'd recommend for a narrative driven beginning module but I love watching PCs respond to winter scar

[steady dagger]

So im reading through Winter Scar, and i notice the Exotic Gear is all narratively linked to a scrapped IPSN 'Campbell' license. Is there a there a real Campbell license that got scrapped before printing, and if so what would've been the vibe for it? I have a player eyeing the Caliban as his LL2, and it mentions the Campbell was passed over for the Caliban. Seems like a neat story beat to tap into, and the idea of a 'search and rescue'/'heavy engineer exosuit' 1/2 frame intrigues me here and taps into the Captain America/Superman 'brick house boy scout' trope he's going for

[stoic grail]

(i think its just a thing mentioned in lore, no actual plans or anything for it. which i think is a good thing, makes the world feel larger than whats given to the players)

[steady dagger]

Oh agreed, but if I was gonna brew something and there were real design notes I wanted to know

[stoic grail]

(ahhhhh)
(no i dont think so then)

[surreal stag]

Where'd you find that detail?

[stoic grail]

(the bounder class compcon exotic, end of mission 1)

(or in the downtime)

[vernal narwhal]

So the answer is yes, the Campbell used to be an actual license, by which I mean it was a homebrew license that I was working on back before the Caliban had been first showcased, and when the Caliban was revealed it made the whole thing feel kind of redundant

The Campbell was a size 1/2 frame with a heavy mount intended for naval boarding operations, sound familiar?

Mechanically it didn't have the Caliban's knockback focus and was instead centered more around indirect fire and breach-and-clear terrain stuff, an echo of which can be found in things like the rebake Breacher's version of Thermal Charge, but the circle I couldn't square to my satisfaction was how the frame would work in maps that were more open and less terrain dense, and while I was trying to bash that out, Tom put the Caliban out there and I decided to simply backburner it

Like the exotic gear in Solstice Rain, I raided the Campbell license for things I could dust off, update, and convert into exotic gear, which includes BOUNDER (originally just a weapon mod, not a comp/con), the shrapnel cannon, and the fusion torch

Some stuff that didn't make the translation included an explosive gel dispenser that had multiple functions akin to the Lancaster's whitewash sealant spray (it could destroy terrain, coat melee weapon in contact explosive, etc) and a grenade/mine system that could be used either as a bouncing grenade or a deployable micromine field

I had thought of trying to resurrect the whole license, but I still couldn't really get the frame to my satisfaction

[steady dagger]

That's really neat. Thank you for sharing that! Sorta gives me an idea for a Caliban alt frame that uses its knockback on allies to tackle them out of danger, maybe using that impact gel as alternate ammo. But that's a thought for the homebrew thread.

[vernal narwhal]

For archaeological purposes, here's the actual Campbell license itself as I last left it

The very very original document (which isn't this one) has a timestamp of 2019 on it, to give some context for how long ago I made this

[stoic grail]

(hey some of these weapons and systems feel familiar lmao)

[vernal narwhal]

I mean quite literally and openly I talk about going back to old go-nowhere projects to part them out for other stuff, the solstice rain exotics are in a similar boat

[cloud vale]

my head cannon as always been there are other license out there, but as lancers they use the best designs. there are also worse designs then the Everest

[low stone]

That's not a headcanon

That's just explicitely correct

[stoic grail]

(tbh its what the npc classes are)

[zealous sand]

Started work on my little intro for Winter Scar based on Edgerunners. Any thoughts on my first draft?

[simple timber]

Very fun.

Wish I had video editing skills, would love to do this for my pc's.

[low stone]

Something must be wrong on my end because the audio on this is basically all static for me

I can at least tell you that it looks good

[zealous sand]

Yeah no clue why, it was the same when I watched on my phone.

[low stone]

huh yeah it's just phones, on my pc now and it works fine

feels a bit spoilery for your players if they take the time to look into it, but it is really cool

(more important than usual because this module does in fact have mechanics tied to that)

[zealous sand]

Mmh, normally I'd be more worried about it, but my players have already gone through WS once before, so this run through I'm going to focus on mixing things up with a point crawl and the big expansion of the latter half of the module.

I'll probably swap out the falling ships with something else though, just need to find a proper sprite.

[low stone]

well I mean if they've gone through the module once before the jig is up, they know all the big ones I imagine.

Honestly just swap most of them for the Rio and it works (but maybe keep one or two along the edges as the Typhoon for funsies)

[zealous sand]

Draft 2: Synced up the images with the music a bit better and dropped some of the spoilers by making them a bit more vague:

[low stone]

Can confirm : Still static on mobile.
Ow. My ears.

Will check it out later then.

[zealous sand]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/359064384426737666/1507146100338069535/Test.mov?ex=6a10d6af&is=6a0f852f&hm=cf8e566a2dca4565a6d46b87b2d0025ac7b3612e453accd7d137307934b45416&

Yeah sorry, THIS one should work on mobile, tested it myself.

[low stone]

Oooh there we are

My ears thank you oh so very much

[zealous sand]

At least it's fixed now XD.

[low stone]

Yeah the landing pods work really well actually

[zealous sand]

For sure, much less on the nose.

[low stone]

And the launch thing is ambiguous enough that it does just look like a Big Missile if that's what you think it is.

[zealous sand]

I like to think it spinning towards the Rio Grande is a nice red herring.

[low stone]

I mean, that's what it does anyways. The real kicker is that it gets to also come back and hang around.

[tropic peak]

Anyone have wrecks of vestan mechs?

[stoic grail]

(is there a good cutout of the typhon?)

[vernal narwhal]

#new-content-resources message

[stoic grail]

(i know theres other maps but i made this one of the continent the vestan sovereignty is on in my game and am happy with it :3)

(lemme get an actual image i didnt mean to send it with this one)

(also ill explain why so much ice in a minute)

(ok)
(actual png export)

(anyways, the ice)
(it looks like that cus when typhon shot off i made it spew out so many greenhouse gasses it actually quite considerably cooled the planet)

[cloud vale]

I assume most large space ship in lancer are useing Fusion rockets at minimum tech level. less green house glass, more helieum in a plasma state and a lot of heat

[cloud vale]

but great imagery of the landscape being effect by the launch

[stoic grail]

(i know its not crazy realistic but it is cool and really makes it a winter scar)

[low stone]

Also with how shoddy the Typhoon's whole everything was I wouldn't be surprised they made do with what they could get and skipped out on the more advanced single-use rockets to get it in orbit at all

[waxen wagon]

I think the book does explicitly mention use of boosters, implying they ARE using single stage rockets to climb out of the launch tunnel, but clearly engineering failed them somewhere because the whole thing about its launch is it NEEDS to fire it's main engine to get enough thrust

[vernal narwhal]

It's less an engineering failure and more that I'm not sure you COULD strap enough boosters to something the size of the Typhon to lift it into orbit

[waxen wagon]

I assume it's pretty common practice for modern day starships to be assembled in space as to avoid the issues with climbing out of an earth-likes gravity, which would probably be another red herring/point of contention with player characters, in that surely they couldn't be building a cruiser underground, people don't do that

[tropic peak]

i think in lancer cannon there was a massive shipyard on sol's moon

idk if it still exists

[vernal narwhal]

Yes, the biggest ships that get are typically capable of launching from a planetary surface are corvettes

Schedule 4 printers are outlined on the core rulebook, these are orbital facilities used in the creation of spaceships

[stoic grail]

(only person that could would be stratenblitz of ksp fame)

(i remember he made this modular design for a launcher and proceeded to use it for like, several kilo/megaton projects)

(but, yknow, ksp)

[river bloom]

I am thinking the coup inside the Vestian sovereignty happened after union made contact with Cressidium? I feel that makes sense as a trigger.

[vernal narwhal]

It's basically happening concurrently with Solstice Rain

Contact with union is definitely the inciting trigger, the attack on Nov Elysia is the first real "shots fired" moment