Prototype Pattern Groups

[placid glacier]

House Rules Used:
Maria Lopez Alt Stress and Structure
Kai Rebake NPCs and Alt NPC Stress and Structure
Valk Handling Rules

LL2 PCs
Swallowtail
Nelson
Balor
White Witch
Mourning Cloak

Tier 1 NPCs
OPFOR:
1x Veteran Mesmerist (Hall of Mirrors, Mountebank's Jaunt)
1x Veteran Boombox (Subwoofer, Spotlight)
2x Cataphract (Lance Shot)
Reinforcements:
1x Elite Operator (Overload Shot, Singularity Grenade)
1x Hornet (Slingshot)

Additional Notes: Party composed mostly of inexperienced players so I'm going lite on homerules, Swallowtail pilot is from my regular party and knows my usual tricks though

[vagrant grotto]

Thank you for the feedback! Frankly the AoE vs LoS issue never occurred to me; I figured that you could just drop the aoe wherever and have the whole area cover it since AoE beats Hidden

I’ll consider the hidden wording on ScintGleam, maybe. “Better than massif defenders” is a bar low enough to trip over, imho, and I don’t intend to trip myself up too much over it

Glad Diffraction Beam + Refracting Armor feels good, especially on Control!

Yeah, if only there were more playtests to confirm this theory… 😉

[vagrant grotto]

Okay, wishing you the best and hoping that my NPCs don’t ruin Lancer for them 😬

[vagrant grotto]

But yeah wrt prism on objectives: Prism has a worse than average heatcap and higher than average EDEF, so a hacker can turn off the projector pretty handily.

That said, Prism may be a victim of my Interact-oriented design for sitreps, in that it’s mostly fine when Contested checks are at play but potentially a problem when using Massif’s all-or-nothing style of scoring/contesting

Like, I’m just highly dubious on it and how I wrote Projector

So additional testing/verification would be excellent

[south cypress]

Also, a thought I had after posting, Scintillating Gleam feels like it steps a little bit on the Anchor's toes as a "you can't target anyone but me" effect, trading Lodestone's effect with counterplay (melee and tech) for a potentially more volatile version that is only countered by Arcing weapons

[vagrant grotto]

I’m not afraid of a little toe stepping here and there

[placid glacier]

I mean it should be fine, I'll just probably be getting less in depth playerside feedback than usual ^^

[ashen crown]

I should cross class Revenge onto an Ire when it’s in a more developed state… knowing how regular my combat sessions have become it’ll probably be like that when we get to our first actual combat of the module T-T

Ya know out of curiosity Valk, has there been any reason in particular most of your Ultra traits don’t tie into Ultra’s base traits specifically? So far only Kensei really plays in the design space, and I really like what Kensei does with it, but I understand if there’s a reason to make that type of stuff more rare. Kensei plays with it because activation order is already a big part of its traits so rewarding it for holding back with Shock and Awe helps keep it in check and is just cool.

Oh wait Vulture plays with it too

Okay so that’s 2 NPCs at least

Actually I’m reading through again and realizing I’m super wrong- Mesmerist ties into Reflex and Howler ties into Reinforced. So nevermind then actually

As a separate note it occurs to me Hurricane of Steel is kinda like a souped up version of the Return to Sender replacement. Whcih is fun for sure just a thought that occurred to me

[placid glacier]

update on this: scheduling hell 😔

will likely not be able to do this for at least 3 weeks time

(saying so because I know how quick the turn around on PPG stuff is so I know a lot can probably change between now and then)

[vagrant grotto]

We’ll see how things shake out; I’ve been low on creative energy lately with other stuff going on in my life

[placid glacier]

Fair dos

[ashen crown]

If an Anomaly with Elevator Clip moved into an obstruction with no ceiling, what happens?

Eg. An indoor map’s walls

[vagrant grotto]

top of the ceiling

[ashen crown]

Or better question, how do y’all suggest running it?

[vagrant grotto]

but only in the corners

oh wait what?

obstruction with no ceiling?

They get sent to the top

this may take them out of the playable area

follow the rules for when you go higher than elevation 10

they can come back down instantly as well

[ashen crown]

So if you pushed them into the wall of an indoor map, they’d get no clipped out of the combat pretty much indefinitely (

[vagrant grotto]

like I'm imagining you mean the platonic ideal of an infinitely tall pillar

what

[ashen crown]

See that’s one way of imagining it

[vagrant grotto]

in an indoor map they'd just collide with the ceiling

[ashen crown]

Ohhh okay

[vagrant grotto]

they'd kinda just be partly clipped there

until they come down

[ashen crown]

Less “one scenario where elevator clip doesn’t do anything” and more “source ragdoll clipping SFX”

[vagrant grotto]

unless you want them to clip through the ceiling

in which case aight your funeral

[ashen crown]

I assume there’s no correct answer I just wanted advice

But yeah the 2 possibilities seem to be:

1. Stuck in ceiling corner
2. No clip out of bounds permanently

Or the 3rd boring possibility of “it just acts like a regular obstruction as if it were a regular character”

[vagrant grotto]

yeah

[drifting parcel]

I think I will do something evil with the anomaly tomorrow

[spiral hill]

To anyone who has ran/played with the Prototype Pattern Groups "One Reactor Stress for All" how drastic is the change gaemplay-wise

[muted blaze]

I like it so much more

It adds consistency rewarding hackers and other heat inflictors

Heat is odd CRB rules because it's neat against 1 structure enemies, the answer to grunts and either the best or worst thing to happen to anyone with 2+ structure

Being either instant death (but deal 4d6 damage to the players) or a gentle breeze (impaired)

Standardising it to be much more consistent is a welcome change and rewards excess heat in addition

[spiral hill]

Aight

I will consider selling this to my table

[vagrant grotto]

I do recommend trying it with the Recharge Heat optional rule as well, to offer more players control power by barring recharge abilities on the overheated target

Otherwise yeah as Al said

[viscid ingot]

I might bring that One Reactor Stress For All ruling alongside the Recharge Heat ruling when I go around to making one of my other campaign ideas. (Front Mission: Lancer Edition)

[sudden cosmos]

My players actually weren't fans of one reactor stress, but it was a very high pressure fight where they didn't have much time to clear exposed

Both times they've encountered it

So they've ended up getting exposed, never getting a chance to clear it, and getting absolutely blasted by the ultra beating their face in

[vagrant grotto]

I’ll say that the usual odds of getting exposed aren’t great either, but I could also expect Overheated throwing a wrench in things

[spiral hill]

Recharge Heat is effectively making all recharge items give heat to self if used right?

Yea it is

Disregard da question

[sudden cosmos]

I will be deploying a vulture next week. Any imminent changes I should be aware of?

@vagrant grotto pinging just in case

[vagrant grotto]

nothing I can see nope

just looking for more feedback on:

• Range 5 Blast 1 Dandelion change
• Ultra Vulture
• Trash to Treasure
• Jumpstart
• Aggressive Refabrication (Ultra)

but yeah I've made my changes to Vulture for now

[sudden cosmos]

It's not gonna be an ultra but dandy, trash, and jumpstart are for sure to be on the menu

Mulling over carcass bunker or an anomaly optional

[sudden cosmos]

Minor question about carcass bunker

If nobody is within the burst area when it goes off besides the vulture, is the vulture just kinda chillin in there by itself?

[vagrant grotto]

I mean yeah it just deploys the thing

you can walk into it normally like a drake bunker

[sudden cosmos]

I've never dealt with a drake before so I figured it'd work like that but don't have any experience with it.

[drifting parcel]

I'll have feedback on this in April

Just need my party to get to the boss fight

[ashen crown]

Funky Homebrew Crossover Idea: Field Guide to Iridia’s Chosen (Ultra Alt where instead of getting Shock and Awe + Resilient, it’s Invincible until 3 marked allies are destroyed) x Anomaly Doppelgänger (make every marked ally a Doppelgänger of the Chosen)

[vagrant grotto]

Sounds like a fun shell game

[viscid ingot]

Be prepared for possible attempts to locate where you live.

[south cypress]

Running an up-tiered Entropic Corrosion Anomaly RPV CRB Operator tonight. If I don't report about it my players have murdered me

[vagrant grotto]

Glad I nerfed Entropic Corrosion, lol

[south cypress]

The multiattacks will be balanced by the Operator being hostile to everyone else on the board, so it will split its fire between the PCs and the rest of the OpFor

[drifting parcel]

I realised that deploying my vulture with a engineer is just free real estate

[ashen crown]

Only if you use that one reaction optional thingy

[vagrant grotto]

Thinking of running a PPG playtest on <t:1775325600:F>, lemme know if you’re interested

[south cypress]

Extremely brief Anomaly feedback: PCs thought Entropic Corrosion was generally cool and threatening, but thought that the ability to force Armor into the negatives was a bit much. They also thought the inability to tell what the Anomaly is before Scanning it was neat.
Unfortunately it only got to activate once before the Minotaur popped core to put it in the Maze, where it stayed for the rest of the sitrep

[viscid ingot]

Rough

[south cypress]

Justified. They saw that it was T2 and said fuck that

[ashen crown]

I personally don’t agree with the Negative Armor thing since it’s kinda Entropic’s big thing, it’s effects can be cleared as part of a healing stabilize, depending on factors it can take a lot of work to get into negative armor, and the anomaly can’t immediately benefit from any Entropic penalties the turn it inflicts it

[south cypress]

The main reason the PCs were worried about it was because it was the last combat of a fairly hard mission and multiple PCs were completely out of repairs

[ashen crown]

Ah yeah I can see how that’d be a problem

Tho considering how Anomaly also has HUNGER I’d consider that more of a feature than a bug

[vagrant grotto]

I appreciate it! And yeah it’s rough when your baddie gets forcecaged

[south cypress]

No it was hilarious. At the time there were 4 Veterans on the field: 2 Bastions, a Demolisher, and a Hornet, and the PCs ignored them and said "wait that guy just multiattacked. Jail."

[viscid ingot]

"You are going to Brazil."

[drifting parcel]

What one?

[muted blaze]

Ah piss I was gonna see if I could squeeze one in then...

[vagrant grotto]

Opportunistic Salvage

[vagrant grotto]

Nobody’s expressed interest yet, so

[drifting parcel]

Oh yeah that's the thingy I was meaning. I thought they meant a Engineer trait

[sudden cosmos]

Hi

[ashen crown]

One of these days I wanna field a Napalm + Witch + Mesmerist against a high heat cap team, just to see what happens

[vagrant grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/well-waiting-were-waiting-gif-5848728

[ashen crown]

Well it’ll be at least 2 months til I next get free time to run a pickup game so keep waiting

[vagrant grotto]

Looking forward to the feedback, regardless lol

[ashen crown]

I can probably throw a Priest in there for Abjure

And to Investiture the Napalm

[turbid spoke]

first time i fielded the napalm, im pretty sure 3 players spent a turn stabilizing because of it

[ashen crown]

Lovely

[sudden cosmos]

Vulture combat delayed until next week because I forgot there was a holiday this weekend

Which is a shame because I wanted to hit the party with some freak shit

[tame wharf]

I could ye

[viscid ingot]

I'll also probably run a game with PPG NPCs mixed with my own homebrew. My document ain't done yet for me lads but I'm genuinely curious how they'd mesh with each other.

[molten tendon]

Heyo, question about the Hatchet as a GM wanting to use one: If it uses the Monomolecular Throwing Axe to... well, throw, it'd be weaponless unless I had given it additional weapons via features or templates right? So it can't just spam dangerous areas to retrieve without additional support?

[vagrant grotto]

Yup that’s the rub

It’s more of a skirmisher than a brawler

[molten tendon]

Hence why it's not an outright striker, right

[viscid ingot]

Feels like a Harrier type.

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah, that’s what I mean by skirmisher

Makes sense if you view a harrier as a mobile close range part-controller though, like Hornet

[viscid ingot]

An NPC that dogs at the heels of its enemies to keep them off balance.

[vagrant grotto]

(Yes Hornet is all controller, that’s still “part” controller)

[viscid ingot]

Yeye

The Hatchet could definitely benefit with having a tank or brawler on its own team to create a frontline for Hatchet to play around in.

[vagrant grotto]

Yup, maybe try it with a Howler

Stand still and get whacked on the backswing retrieval

Move and get whacked by the Ripper Claws

[viscid ingot]

Document is still under the works. But I think I can pair it up with my lads.

Player Number: 4
OpFor Activations: At least 4 and at most 6
OpFor Structure on Field: At least 5

Composition:

• Operator+
• Hatchet (Rocket Bola)
• Goliath+ (Pin, Crushing Embrace)
• Kensei (Disarming Retaliation)
• Priest+

I wanna test to see how well they mesh.

[vagrant grotto]

Very damage forward, unless you’re leaning on the off-role tools

[viscid ingot]

Priest+ primary purpose is to buff up Goliath+ to hold the frontline as it basically makes sure that no one gets past it.

Kensei's gonna be protecting little Priest+ as its loyal retainer.

Operator+ and Hatchet will be the damage dealers here..

A small explanation of the three lads.

• Operator+ is an off-turn Artillery, there will be periods of rest as it cools down from dealing its damage.

• Goliath+ is a grappling behemoth. It will make itself very known to force players to acknowledge how much of a problem it is in the current situation.

• Priest+ is an MMO character, with various Blessings it can bestow on allies on top of Dispersal Shield and Investiture.

I'm thinking of adding a template or two to spice things up, but these lads with no template would be a good test for now.

Can't wait to try this comp. :3

[vagrant grotto]

Hope the PPG components serve you well!

[viscid ingot]

Though tbh, I don't see Priest+ surviving Past Round 1 depending on the player comp.

xD

Named Priest but players deem it an affront to god with how quickly they goomba stomp it.

[ashen crown]

It’s similar to the Torrent in that it can’t really sit still, so it’s good at taking zones but bad at keeping them

[vagrant grotto]

It encourages folks to move away from the weapon, for sure

[ashen crown]

It’s like a remote Kensei almost lol

Guy who’s only ran a Kensei: getting a lot of Kensei vibes from this NPC

[vagrant grotto]

It’s actually inspired by Boss Baby /joke

[visual nest]

For the sake of talents and some weapons, would you consider the objective in Blitz (Ruin) as characters, objects or neither?

[vagrant grotto]

They’re objects

[visual nest]

Noted

[vagrant grotto]

There are no Secret Third Things in my sitrep design philosophy

Only design oversights to be patched

[visual nest]

It's even written in PDF... my bad

And totally fair

[muted blaze]

The spite must be quite odd playing into 1 stress for all...

Just thinking about it. Say before, you get spited then you're at your HC. You stress, become exposed but now you're not at your heat cap

If you become exposed with a spite with 1 stress for all. You remain at max HC even if you stabilise the exposed away

[ashen crown]

I think if you tried to do that you’d just stay exposed I think?

I don’t actually know but that sounds accurate? The requirement for being exposed is exceeding your heat cap and your heat cap is remaining exceeded after clearing exposed so it just reapplies

[vagrant grotto]

Lemme read spite again

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah that sounds right

You never actually have heat higher than your cap, and the trigger for exposed is if you would take heat that would cause you to exceed your cap

[muted blaze]

An interesting interaction

I'm curious how it'd go

[vagrant grotto]

Lemme know if you try it, I’m sure it’ll encourage hugging the spite a bit more

Or hiding. Hiding is good

[muted blaze]

I yearn to return to 1 stress for all rules 😔

[vagrant grotto]

Join meeeeee

Still need 2 more for Saturday

[muted blaze]

Fuck it

I'm in

Is there a thread?

[vagrant grotto]

For visibility

[vagrant grotto]

Not yet

Only 3 interested so far

[ashen crown]

It does mean the next instance of heat you take would instantly expose you though, correct?

[vagrant grotto]

Yes

So maybe do something about that

[opaque crescent]

would join but my partner's around for the next week or so

[vagrant grotto]

Be with your partner!!

[serene tangle]

how long do you expect it to be, and what are the character creation rules/other requirements?

[vagrant grotto]

I expect it to last 5 hours from the start time, tops

Character creation will be “any massif press published stuff, with my house rule patch applied on top”

Not sure on LL yet, may do LL2

[serene tangle]

Damn, 5hrs conflicts for me, maybe next time

[vagrant grotto]

Last hour is usually the feedback time

If you gotta jet, the fight usually wraps by the 4 hour mark

[serene tangle]

Yeah, I think I can do that then

[vagrant grotto]

Aight thread incoming

[vagrant grotto]

Had a drop, anyone available to playtest PPG at <t:1775325600:F>?

[muted blaze]

@gaunt heron is saying she's available

[vagrant grotto]

Hella

Ll2, usual suspects in terms of rules

[gaunt heron]

yes chef!!!! o7

[opaque crescent]

-# I'm back! Minor update time...

PPG Foundry Module Update 0.6

• Added functionality to automatically create the Dazed and Overheated effects on world startup
  -# Thank you Ariana for bringing up that things would break if using the module without the PPG LCP. This should hopefully fix this issue and allow people to run this smoothly in that situation.

As always, message me or put an issue up on the github page for bug reports or whatevs

[tame wharf]

Yooo, thanks for the mention

[visual nest]

Does the Occultist takes 2 heat from deployed FLOCK Drones when entering the scene?

[vagrant grotto]

no, it does not

it does not activate the system, it just starts with them

[visual nest]

I see

[visual nest]

Diviner's Darts

This weapon can attack 1–2 targets at a time. For each attack, a controlled DRONE within SENSORS may move adjacent to the target as long as the DRONE otherwise cannot move on its own.
I think there is a word missing.
"as long as there is a path"?
It is both in the PDF and LCP

[vagrant grotto]

No words missing

[visual nest]

Then I'm not sure I get how the end of the text flows. I feel like I'm missing something ^^.

[vagrant grotto]

The end of the text is so that you can’t use Darts to move Hound Missile

They’re meant for drones that are otherwise immobile

[visual nest]

Ooooh, ok!
Thanks!

[vagrant grotto]

Squeeze

Characters may voluntarily move through gaps up to one SIZE smaller than themselves. Each space moved in this way is treated as if it is through difficult terrain.

Thoughts on this modification of Squeeze?

[ashen crown]

Bulwark mods stocks are up

[vagrant grotto]

Kai Bioplating users rejoice

[ashen crown]

If the interaction is intended then it sounds fine to me

[vagrant grotto]

Prismatic Projector (v1.20)
System, 2 Heat (Self), Quick Tech
Place an untargetable holographic projector in a free space within SENSORS. The Prism is treated as occupying a projector’s space for all purposes. The Prism gains RESISTANCE to all damage, Heat, and Burn inflicted through a projector.

Only 1 projector may exist at a time; placing a new projector first destroys an old one. Projectors last until the end of the scene, or until the Prism is STUNNED, JAMMED, overheated, or destroyed.

Prismatic Projector (Provisional v1.21)
System, 2 Heat (Self), Quick Tech

The Prism creates a holographic copy of itself in a free space in SENSORS. The Prism and all copies count as the same character, dividing actions and movement between themselves. Effects targeting the Prism and a copy only affect the Prism once. The Prism and its copies share all effects except for involuntary movement. Copies have RESISTANCE to all damage, Heat, and Burn.

Placing a new copy destroys an old one. Copies last until the end of the scene, or until the Prism is STUNNED, JAMMED, overheated, or destroyed.

I'm back on my Prism bullshit, please evaluate and critique honestly between the live v1.20 version and the v1.21 version. Please do not concern yourselves with the optionals at this point; I am aware they will also need to change

(I have additionally provisionally pulled the trigger and made Diffraction Beam a Memetic weapon for the sake of space)

[vagrant grotto]

Q: "Valk, why are you doing this to yourself"
A:
Reason the first: Because now that I've done Torrent's Split the Sea and Formation, I have a better grasp on the wording for multi-body NPCs

Reason the second: The fiddly "immunity to involuntary movement" of v1.20 is wacky to wrap one's head around and has unintuitive consequences.

Reason the third: Projectors could result in negative experiences using CRB sitreps that care more about standing around than taking action

[ashen crown]

So the Projector can be mobile now?

[vagrant grotto]

yes, in exchange for being vulnerable to involuntary movement

[ashen crown]

curious

[vagrant grotto]

it's provisional at the moment and I'd appreciate feedback on any loopholes or lack of clarity that might be introduced by this potential change

[ashen crown]

well iirc one of the Prism optionals is explicity for making the Projectors mobile, so I assume that's getting a revamp if this goes through

[vagrant grotto]

Please do not concern yourselves with the optionals at this point; I am aware they will also need to change
- Valk, 2026

[ashen crown]

The projector now being susceptible to voluntary movement also makes the Prism a less potent objective holder, which isn't a good or bad thing it's just sorta a thing

[vagrant grotto]

it can still instantaneously "pseudo teleport" to the objective with another quick

[ashen crown]

I can't really think of any loopholes that would exist from this expansion of capabilities since the Prism has been designed so far with the idea that the projector could be capable of movement, so I think it's only the specific wording which is a concern- and that I can't really see a problem with so far

[vagrant grotto]

Rabid Lunge
System, Recharge 6+, Quick Action
The Howler flies its SPEED, ending movement on a solid surface. After landing, as a free action it may use FERAL HOWL, RAM, GRAPPLE, or SKIRMISH with its RIPPER CLAWS.

Adding the ability for Howler to free action Feral Howl after using Rabid Lunge, in exchange for increasing the Recharge from 5 to 6

the feedback I've been getting is that howler is getting smoked immediately, and I think part of that is that it's struggling to close distance AND activate Feral Howl

so now, it can Move + Boost + Lunge (Free Action Howl)

[umbral sluice]

question in regards to this: wouldn't a free action Feral Howl just lead to it getting smoked at the same rate if not faster? given that now you not only want to attack it bc it's a scary dude but also are punished for not doing it? Though I suppose that would be the defender doing its job

[vagrant grotto]

aight. +2 HP across the board too then

[south cypress]

I like these changes. If the Prism is just plopping a Projector on an objective to leave it there and score points then nothing really changes except that the gameplan can be disrupted with forced movement, and otherwise it just looks like a more interactive mechanic than the old version

[vagrant grotto]

Update to 1.21!

[viscid ingot]

Quick Question baout Diviner's Darts.

If I am understanding it correctly, then the Occultist's FLOCK drones or any other drones it controls will instantly move to the struck target, no matter where they are on the map?

[vagrant grotto]

as long as they're in the Occultist's sensors, yes

the drones will trigger overwatch, yes

[viscid ingot]

Ok, so as long as they are within sensors and even including NOT in Line of Sight?

[vagrant grotto]

Everything in lancer needs line of sight by default

[viscid ingot]

Ah ok, last bit of clarification. It is the OCCULTIST that needs Sensors and Line of Sight to both the drones and the target they shot at right?

The FLOCK drone doesn't care about those in the context of Diviner's Darts?

[visual nest]

Will have a more write up feedback tomorrow but did my first mission with Modular Sitreps, a few templates and the Occultist and it went well.
Modular Sitreps are definitely what I'm going to use in the future

[ashen crown]

Ooh Diffraction Beam is Memetic now, that’s interesting

Oh yeah Diffraction Beam being Memetic makes it way cleaner now, good call

[south cypress]

Oh hell yeah I'll definitely work the Ire into my Holdout next week

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah basically

[vagrant grotto]

Hell yeah, happy to hear it!

[vagrant grotto]

Looking forward to your feedback!

[tame wharf]

If it were me I'd specify what you mean by splitting actions and movement between themselves IMO. Regardless of that, this seems fine

[raven inlet]

I'd say it was pretty awkward to do when there was only 3 players and the goal was 9 so I might up it to 4 per player, but as soon as another player joined halfway through and the goal was 12, it was perfect.

The whole interact mechanic was refreshing too.. though I think I misplayed it, I made it so the NPC's had to interact with it every round, oops.

It was more like a switch, I see~

I think that would've made it a lot easier to advance up for the NPC's, so that was my bad.

[vagrant grotto]

Listen I’m happy to hear this approach too, I was worried that doing something like a “reverse seize” would be too weighted in favor of NPCs tbh

[visual nest]

Session Feedback

Context

This was a mission as part of a open table server campaign. The session was made around being 2 hours of narrative followed by 2 hours of combat.
The combat was for 4 players, with a short-medium (2-3 rounds) duration goal.

Sitrep

Base on the narrative I had in mind and after talking with Valk, I settled on Blitz ( Ruin)

Prepping

• Already on the the creation side it felt good. I normally use CRB + EC sitrep and I always feel like I have to contrive my narrative to fit the sitrep. Here that felt easy and really able to adapt to the narrative.
• The objectives felt easy to insert diegetically and where represented through doors that PCs had to open

Running

• It was great too. All of us where new to this sitrep and the philosophy behind it, yet it got integrated pretty well. Even the interact action didn't seem to cause any issue as I feared.
• PCs, all of them, got really focused on the objective and played around that. Which is what I wanted, a objective first combat. Leading to not much damage on the NPCs themselves, with only two structures taken overall.
• The combat was ended at the first turn of the third round, in around 1h30. Which is pretty much what I wanted, maybe a bit quicker, which is most likely on me and how I played. Part of it could also be explained by me forcing the RAW turn order instead of asking "who goes next".
• The objective didn't seem too hard or too unfair and lead to strategic decisions. The 1/turn limit of Interact being what made it possible.
• Something that I realised one later it all of the objectives where dealt with Interact instead of being shot at. Which is really interesting to me.
• A player held a tech attack until the next player opened the door that was blocking them, which I think was a great dynamic.

Overall very happy with how it turned out. What I needed/wanted with my combat both on the objective focus and the dynamic it lead too.
With a player who is also a GM being interested.

-# ** **

Class and Templates

The combat was T3 with 3 LL12 and a LL9. 2 size 1/2, 2 size 1.

Spec Ops Brigand Dense Sentinel

• Optionals: Bodyguard, Grav Amp
• Rebaked Version
• Dense
  • Due to the tightness of the map I initial choose to revert the size and speed change from the Rebake but decided to go with the Dense template at the end.
  • While it wouldn't have been useful here, I could see myself preferring the increase in speed over keeping the benefits of the initial size on an NPC like the Sentinel.
• Brigand
  • Only got the chance to use both Dirty Fighting and Grav Amp and it lead to both a successful save and a miss, unfortunately.

Spec Ops Occultist

• Optionals: Jealous Flock, Harvest Pyres
• Paired with the Sentinel
• I think I need to wrap my head a bit more on its gameplan as I found myself a bit stretched between going more Controller or Support
• Managed to put drones next to PCs but got Jammed after going round 1 and so, couldn't Reap the Chaff round 2
• Would have to retest it and plan its gameplan a bit more.
• Will need to remember that I can shoot Diviner's Dart at the ground/walls to position the drones better Allies.

Also had a Elite Prototype Specter in Reserve but didn't get the chance to deploy it.

Overall PPG is something that I want to explore more in the future.

The map we played on:

[vagrant grotto]

Thank you for the feedback! I’m glad the sitrep worked out for you and your table 😄

Occultist is a weird little flexible guy yeah, it can play defensive support or offensive controller with its drones

[visual nest]

I wanted to have the Sentinel Bodyguard the Occultist while being adjacent to a FLOCK Drone but it ended up being too many moving parts

[ashen crown]

I never thought of shooting terrain to reposition occultist drones. Huh.

[vagrant grotto]

I purposefully mention this in the FAQ!! It’s intended design!!

[ashen crown]

Hey I just realized I can and should flavor KTB Zealots as Bannerettes

[vagrant grotto]

Nice nice

[ashen crown]

Hypothetically, if I were to homebrew Soul Split to turn the target into a Formation rather than a Tier Scaling amount of Grunts, how do you think that would change it?

[vagrant grotto]

eh, should be fine

I might just do that myself

[ashen crown]

The bulk of the target increases except at tier 3, but the DPR drops drastically as their action economy goes to 1 rather than scaling with tier. If they were an Elite or even an Ultra they actively lose activations instead of gaining an equal or greater amount

However it’s way simpler to run

The solution that makes nobody happy: have Soul Split spawn multiple Formations

[vagrant grotto]

alright it sounds like you've answered your own question 😄

[ashen crown]

Yeah it’s a nerf to effectiveness but a buff to bulk and simplicity, so they’re both good in their own ways- just wanted to make sure I’m not missing anything

Oh wait- slight buff to characters with Mark-style effects

That’s an important point- if the target is split into a bunch of grunts only one of them benefits from any previously ongoing Marks. With a Formation, theoretically it could be reworded such that ongoing marks benefit the entire formation, and they can place + benefit from new ones much easier

[vagrant grotto]

I mean, grunts get their own turns so they don't need to "share"

anyway do what you want

[ashen crown]

Also loading + limited stuff I suppose but that gets nerfed

[vagrant grotto]

I think it's a hard nerf and I don't think I'll actually change Soul Split

like it's interesting but not enough IMO

[ashen crown]

True, but it’s the difference between “the original got destroyed so now the new grunts need to spend actions replacing marks” and “the whole formation can still benefit from any marks that were placed before the split”

[ashen crown]

Yeah I think I’ll prefer it if it’s grunts tbh, the action econ buff is too integral

[viscid ingot]

4 Grunts in a Trench Coat style ability.

[south cypress]

Just realized I haven't actually used Formations with my players yet. I have the perfect opportunity with Bombards in next week's fight as well. Should be fun

[vagrant grotto]

Formation Bombard is pretty great, can confirm

Granted, I used a Valk-revised bombard when I used it, but it was good nonetheless

[ashen crown]

It shouldn’t differ too much, the Valk bombard is more consistent but kinda averages out the same in my opinion

[viscid ingot]

https://youtu.be/hFbZLEZa-y8?si=wsghShj2VeeDb5CH

Me when I hear Formation Bombard

[visual nest]

Me trying PPG on a server lead to 4 other GMs getting interested to it. 😌

[vagrant grotto]

This brings me great joy hahaha, very glad it went over so well

[muted blaze]

Sitreps for playtest tonight

[vagrant grotto]

Nice nice! ||looking like it’s a Short Blitz + Medium Holdout? Nice, lemme know how that turns out!||

[ashen crown]

Ya know it’d be interesting to run a Seize-style sitrep with a bunch of enemies that are terrible objective defenders, but outstanding damage dealers and objective takers. Torrent being the first one that comes to mind. It’d be kinda rocket-tag-y, but for like. Knockback instead of just damage.

Would it go well? Idk, but it’d be interesting

[vagrant grotto]

If you test this, lemme know how it goes!

I have a feeling it’ll be similar to vanilla control for the most part

More quick actions spent to interact, rather than protocols

[ashen crown]

If I can be frank I’ve been and will be stuck in theorycrafting hell for a while, but the combat I have in mind for a mission my players are doing… well that combat may not happen so yeah lol

[muted blaze]

Yep yep, ||Wanted low action cost on the PC side so I don't tie up their action econ too hard to test PC builds||

[vagrant grotto]

Excellent, glorious

Godspeed

[ashen crown]

||There are so many gobbledegook words in there and that’s wonderful||

[muted blaze]

Bingus

Prototype Pattern groups

Elite Mesmerist

• Had Mentebank Jaunt and Death by glamour
• There were 2 of them
• Good defender, does what it wants to do.
  • This one: "Damn Mentebanks Jaunt as a get in tool before a memetic magnetism is nasty as fuck"
  • Did full tech invade -> MM
  • A Fish terax was fielded
• Never thought "this is fucking bullshit" to the Mesmerists abilities (compared to last time)
• Still feels hard to straight up ignore them, they need to enter the PCs actions
• 2 Elite mesmerists at the same time is a bit evil
  • I fucked up here lol
• Hornets were fielded too, so heat count was quite high
  • They dealt out a LOT of heat!
• Death by glamour, "If you don't shoot me you take heat, if you do shoot me and miss you take heat because... Fuck you". Desppite this, it isnn't too bad because they take 1 heat and it's fine
• Forgotten about Death by glamour for the first 4 rounds 💀
  • Passives can do this
• One mesmerist lost 3 mirror images whilst ignore invis and cover was on it
• My LCP for it said "1/round" in mirror image, whereas the PDF said "1/turn"

Hybrid Sitrep

• Was fun
• It's fun
• Need to watch out during map design for making the map too big
  • The map used for this was fine (22x20), Blitz tiles were 10, 11, 18 and 18 tiles from spawn.
• Seeing second sitrep ahead of time was good, open info is good yo.
  • The ability to think ahead as a pplayer is cool, being able to make the first sitrep harder to make the second objective easier is cool
• Hybrid sitreps are cool narratively
• Blitz and holdout, with a better team comp. Could have had 2 Blitz capturers and vanguards taking the holdout point. This is a cool dynamic and it would have been cool to see it first
• PCs won by the skin of their teeth. Won just BARELY, would have been a pythrric victory I think
• Cost a lot of attrition (Lim charges, overcharges, structure and stress)
• The adjacent to character not point was "Weird" but ok (Waters words)
• Being large feels like more of a downside than usual because of how easy it is for enemies to get adjacent to you.
  • Also easier to contest more hostiles.
  • Adjacency part feels "cool", rewarding and penalising you

Short Blitz

• Took 3 and a bit rounds. Completed during round 4
• Battlebus made it a problem because people couldn't spread out, players were only in one place making AOE easy and making it easier to get contested.
  • PCs think potential misplay for use of the battlebus
• Blackbeard with exemplar split off, was good tanked hits as a good tank.
• Enemies have less to do because they can't use actions on the Blitz points
  • Can be avoided

Medium Holdout

• Battlebus made it easier as everyone arrived on the point at the same time.
• Holdout was a size 5 area, not a size 3 object :P
  • Felt odd with adjacency related withholding
  • Someone can move into the poinnt and capturing it, unless overwatch stops it. NPCs can just capture the point with little counterplay moving onto an uncontested zone of the point
  • A size 3 Tarax made holding the point much easier
  • Felt odd by being contested by an NPC OUTSIDE the holdout point.
  • Generally mixed feelings from the PC party on adjacency based contesting for this holdout. "Not sold on it"
    • I generally do not have much opinion on this personally
• Was interesting because the holdout objective was in the middle of the blitz objectives. So everyone had to think about how to get to the holdout objective mid game
• "Is kill everyone" the solution?
  • If so, "I like this less" (Waters words)
• Somewhat lead to a Deathmatch on the holdout without forced movement.
  • "One thing did notice about it". If there is not much forced movement with lots of risk of overwatch, was very static on a mobility front but was still interesting to play as a PC due to the planned turn order amongst the party.
  • "Didn't feel like meaningless static, Movement had consequences in a good way"
• NPCs have more resources to capture the holdout than PCs had resources to stop it.
• Feels more interactive, there's more counterplay. If an Ace runs in last minute to capture the point it only slows progress rather than causing you to lose.

Feedback

[vagrant grotto]

Thanks for all this feedback! Good catch on the Mesmerist lcp, I likely missed a spot. Sounds like they did their job very well though, for which I’m happy to hear 😄

glad the hybrid sitrep worked out well; everything is sounding like it’s proceeding according to plan. If I were in your shoes, I might’ve made the size 5 dance floor the only area to contest (since it’s the same area as size 3 and a burst 1 adjacency around it) instead of the zone AND the surrounding spaces. But it sounds like it worked out in the end! Bigger zone for NPCs to access means harder to keep them out after all

NPCs having more resources (actions) to take objectives is relevant, as always, but the edge players have is a much broader suite of accuracy and stuff like Overcharge (any version) to maintain pressure. Sounds like they had a lot of ground to cover regardless

Thank you again for the feedback!

[muted blaze]

It was a size 5 zone only

A character was adjacent to a character within the zone whilst not being within the zone

I need to double check wording tbh I might have just skipped over it

[vagrant grotto]

Hmmmm okay

[muted blaze]

PCs and enemies now only force a contested skill check if they are adjacent to the opposing character taking the INTERACT action; simply being adjacent to the objective is no longer enough to contest it.

Wait I think I might have just skipped over specific wordings so if I fucked up pthat's on me

[umbral sluice]

wait hold

maybe they still need to be in the zone but also adjacent now?

that could've been it

[ashen crown]

Being big is bad because it makes it easier for you to be contested, but it’s good because it makes it easier for you to contest. Interesting how these new sitreps make being big better on the offense than the defense- and also makes me thing having a zone instead of an object sometimes may be a good idea. Sometimes. Not for my PCs tho they’re all size 1 chumps.

[vagrant grotto]

Intent is that you gotta be “adjacent to the object” in order to interact with it, but adjacent to the “Interacter” to contest them (instead of adjacent to the objective)

Normally you gotta be adjacent to the objective to interact AND contest

[vagrant grotto]

Other way around; bigger is better on defense (contesting opponents) than on offense (taking objectives)

[muted blaze]

Cool, then I fucked it but that only effected 1 or maybe 2 rolls

[vagrant grotto]

S’all good

They won anyway, so they won on hard mode!

Bonus points

Ultimately very very very happy to hear the hybrid sitrep played well

(I’m not crazy! Composite sitreps work! Mokha would be overjoyed)

[ashen crown]

Isn’t contesting opponents also offense? You’re stopping them from getting points rather than taking points yourself

[vagrant grotto]

Think about this in context of Seize and Fortify

If you’re playing defense on either one, you’re trying to prevent attackers from running up and pushing the buttons

Your default approach is to try to cover as much ground and contest as many folks as possible

For fortify, once the objective is “flipped” trying to flip it back becomes an offensive reclamation

That all said I could always add an objective adjacency requirement to Gauntlet and Holdout

Depends on how I feel about the Size interaction

[tame wharf]

@vagrant grotto do you have the little faction buff things you were working on on hand?

[vagrant grotto]

They’re up-channel if anything

I don’t have an lcp yet

[tame wharf]

I cannot find them

For the record I don't want/need them in an LCP, I just wanted to see how you went about formatting them

[vagrant grotto]

Oh, uh I just formatted them like regular traits I think

I don’t know how I’m gonna format it in pdf form

All I know is my last take on the layout is UGLY and needs revisions

Hang on

[ashen crown]

Flickers ignoring immobilize but not slow is funny

[muted blaze]

Molerat mirage 😩

Molerat spite 😭

[vagrant grotto]

I forget if I changed that or not

Again these are rough notes

[tame wharf]

Appreciated

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah hope these help! Lemme know if there’s anything else I can do

[tame wharf]

Can you solve world hunger

[south cypress]

Realizing that I expect the Ire to be a real menace to my Vlad player specifically, since it doesn't really care about being Shredded unless it gets Exposed (which almost certainly won't happen with my party) and Excruciating Transposition will both take advantage of the fact that no Vlad in history has ever invested in Sys and negate his Agi investment with the Evasion drop from Stunned.
I'm going to have a great time with this

[vagrant grotto]

start by eating the rich

[vagrant grotto]

Tbh I fully expect the Ire to need some extra HP and probably a revision on how it gets OS and pings damage, but in the meantime it should do

Looking forward to the feedback!

[ashen crown]

Oh I just noticed the old hostile heat element of Bedevil was moved into the Boil Over optional. I like that!

[vagrant grotto]

Me too! I had to stop stacking forgettable passives on the base kit

[ashen crown]

I’m also starting to kinda get how Ruinous Reactor plays into its kit. If you have a random Untemplated Ire, you’d ideally want it to last long enough to overheat, and then self destruct to do a big push for whatever point it was stealing- if it was alive long enough to trigger it it’s probably at the end of its rope anyway. It also encourages it to not stabilize. I like that a lot, it’s interesting! Also gives Law of Blades’ stabilize option a niche use lol

[vagrant grotto]

It’s very much meant to be a “your hacks are just making it angrier” trait

That’s why I had so much stuff key off of taking heat or damage

[ashen crown]

Question about Spiteful End btw- when the Ire would be destroyed, how does it function until the start of its next turn? Is it treated as a wreck with one last activation? Or is it still an operable NPC unit, just with 0 HP, Briarios Frame style?

Manticore’s Unstable System assumes the pilot is still alive to take turns to trigger the wreck’s self destruct, but as an NPC Ire plays with it a little differently

[south cypress]

Actually follow-up/piggyback question on Spiteful End, could a Vet Ire with that and Rodeo Master Self Destruct -> Dismount to escape the explosion?

[vagrant grotto]

it still exists and does stuff like reactions/maintains grapples/etc

the unstable state replaces the destruction effect

[ashen crown]

Okay so it’s still alive- is it basically indestructible until it explodes?

if this is how Unstable System works I’ve greatly misunderstood it

[vagrant grotto]

it cannot be destroyed but can take damage/effects/heat

Unstable System from Manticore is very very different

this is designed for an NPC with better signaling

[ashen crown]

Curious

[vagrant grotto]

honestly Unstable System may not work as written, in a way

technically it works because it's the pilot's next turn, not the Manticore's

[ashen crown]

This is true

[vagrant grotto]

NPCs aren't considered to have pilots so yeah

(in-fiction, they obviously do, but in mechanics, they have nothing to reflect this)

[ashen crown]

Not being able to destroy a wreck to stop the meltdown makes sense if the desire is to make the NPC force the OpFor to reposition or suffer

[opaque crescent]

PPG Foundry Module Update 0.7

• Removed pre-expose functionality in favour of Split Damage Cards option (see below)
  -# The intention was there was this feature, but it was too buggy or too confusing a lot of the time. I've removed this now in favour of a hopefully better solution.
• Added Split Damage Cards functionality
  -# This separates the damage and heat a weapon deals into their own application cards. If I could figure it out, I'd hope to one day replace this with separate buttons on the same card, but this will do for now.
• Added Automate Overheated option
  -# This was something that was already handled by One Stress for All code, but I've now moved this into it's own blocks that allows it work with or without OSfA, and added a step into the Stabilize Flow that checks if the mech is cooling to also remove Overheated.

As always, message me or post an issue up on the github page for bug reports, suggestions, discussion, etc.

[vagrant grotto]

took some time to try out some layout for some factions

[visual nest]

I like Disengage being in the feature.
Really neat touch.

[vagrant grotto]

I initially started with the big-ass red “mech titles” for the factions but they were WAY too big and loud

But I didn’t need to dedicate a full page spread to 1 faction

[vagrant grotto]

Thank you! I think it’ll be interesting

[viscid ingot]

Having a Ronin be called Tirebane is just giving me an image of a Ronin but they replaced his sword with a mech sized Tire Iron.

But yeah this Reactor Cavalier trait is pretty coolio.

Am I right to assume you are planning on making several other single traits and systems for "Faction" types?

[vagrant grotto]

I brainstormed like 30 of them

Some won’t make the cut, but I wanted to do more than just “list of traits”

I wanted to make some actual factions you could drag and drop into a campaign

[thin depot]

made me visualize a Kensei Tirebane hitting a lethal Tire Iron unsheathing

[thin depot]

I like this concept that would be really rad actually

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah, basically would cover a huge amount of ground in terms of content:

• Fun new NPC faction traits
• Encounter compositions
• Motivated factions with plenty of Nouns to build sessions and adventures with

[viscid ingot]

That would be a lot. But at least all you'd need to do is brainstorm one unique trait per faction.

Mine is just "Make the stuff modular with templates and options. Then faction making will be a problem for future me."

[vagrant grotto]

I’ve already brainstormed the traits

[viscid ingot]

Disclaimer: I am now future me and I am being struck by my own hubris because of decision paralysis.

[viscid ingot]

Also nice, thinking of putting a number cap to how many factions you will cook up?

[ashen crown]

Reminds me a lot of faction roster’s layout- I’m a big fan! It’ll work well with the high quantities you seem to be pursuing.

I also see you’re using this new faction roster supplement to spread the word of your Role Classifications, which I find neat

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah I figured it made the most sense to do so

[vagrant grotto]

No idea

[low island]

Sent an elite vet (rebake) kensei at a group of four Atlases today

He ended up taking a shit ton of heat pressure off sheathing twice a round (I only got off one charged attack in the end)

Party was all Atlases so they kinda managed to jink his over watches, they even grappled him because they didn't want to deal with the disarming parry

Pretty good fight though, feels like a bit of a vanguard rather than a pure dps attacker

(he missed a lot but that's just how it is with, uh, four Atlases)

[viscid ingot]

Five Genjis in Overwatch ahh

[low island]

the Kensei was in a corner of the map they COULD have just circumvented with a zipline

No they went and beat him up

He died to a Blazing Knee of Justice (NucCav Ram Attack)

[umbral sluice]

okay I really want to hear what led to the four atlases now

[low island]

Ok basically, I'm running a one-shot related indirectly to the main campaign because one person can't make it and we don't want to skip him for the upcoming chapter

one guy goes... I could run this, or I could run an Atlas with a homebrew licensed weapon... fuck it I'm an Atlas

another guy who's undecided and was gonna ask me to give him a random character sheet says "sure how about an atlas"

the worse tanoshii says "I'll play if it's all Atlases"

and the last player didn't have a preference but said "yeah I want a premade that's a melee mech. Sure thing, it can be an Atlas"

And so I was like "sure thing", made an Extraction map with some Atlas enrichment (sick rocks and buildings to kick flip off) and added the Elite Veteran Kensei in a location they could completely avoid by using a MGMS zipline just standing there... menacingly

Turn 1, first person to activate Pankrati charges in the direction of the Kensei.

they ended up getting the escort payload out at the start of turn 5, right after I spawned in a bunch of dudes with smart Burn weapons to make sure they couldn't dawdle

Now one plus side of having all Atlases is that everyone wants the same thing for bonus damage so teamwork is easier

the downside is that a single untemplated Hive appearing became a defcon one situation

[umbral sluice]

I love this

[vagrant grotto]

Feels like a bit of a vanguard rather than a pure dps attacker
Mission accomplished folks, time to wrap this Kensei up

Thank you for the feedback, I’m working my way down the line now haha

[vagrant grotto]

Okay lol can’t believe they decided to fight the optional boss lol

[sudden cosmos]

High level feedback from the vulture fight:

• players wondered why it was only a size 1
• carcass bunker in a chokepoint does crazy work, but hostiles being able to just walk through it unimpeded (?) doesn't feel great given the vulture doesn't really want to be in melee range of a living thing
• if the vulture self-targets a benefit from Magpie, does Jumpstart recharge recharge one of the vulture's systems?
• follow up, are there weapons with recharge? The text implies that but I can't think of one
• dandelion being blast 1 instead or cone actually makes the "hide in the cloud" strat tricky. Unsure if that was intentional.

[vagrant grotto]

1. Why did they feel this way?
2. Noted
3. Yes
4. Not to my knowledge but I covered my bases
5. Oops, noted

[ashen crown]

Why did Dandelion’s cover get an extra effect in the first place anyway?

[vagrant grotto]

Because I wanted one?

With all due respect, what kind of question is that

[ashen crown]

I was just curious if there was feedback that prompted it to get buffed, because it didn’t always have an extra effect iirc

[vagrant grotto]

That’s always been there

[ashen crown]

It used to be just plain old soft cover

[vagrant grotto]

The Los blocker

No it didn’t

[ashen crown]

Really?

My mistake then

[vagrant grotto]

If it was it was very brief

Check my changelogs and lemme know

[ashen crown]

Yeah it’s not in any of the changelogs since the 1.0 release. Maybe I just ran the vulture wrong first time I fielded it

[sudden cosmos]

Gonna be honest. I have no clue wrt point 1. Maybe it's because it was an Elite Veteran Commander Anomaly? The vulture was stacked and I guess they suspected an evil bossy type person should be a size 2?

I asked them why and the answer was mostly feelings, but they all agreed on it so I figured it was worth repeating.

I guess, regarding 5, I could have had it just attack the ground to make the stink cloud like how I did when it was a cone attack

[vagrant grotto]

Like my gut would say “2 armor, clumsy flyer, and Boss”

I don’t think size 2 does much for it but noted

[sudden cosmos]

Yeah, I think it's fine as a size 1.

[vagrant grotto]

Like, now that you’ve mentioned it, it might be neat to have a Size 2 flyer support?? But that does feel like a change for the sake of change

[sudden cosmos]

And vultures are kinda big ol birds

[muted blaze]

Size 2 vulturers feel odd to me ngl

[sudden cosmos]

it would also give it more contact area for its abilities

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah, though to the point I might reduce the ranges to 2 instead, I don’t know

[ashen crown]

There’s already a lot of rebaked size 2 or size 1/2 supports and size 1 feels like a strong identity for the Vulture. Just personally

[sudden cosmos]

I'm inclined to agree, but that's a vibe thing here

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah imma let the size 1 ride

Vulture is a midliner who wants to hide behind a Guardian

[steel apex]

Not an argument in favor of the change, but a size 2 flying support is a taraxacum

So the space exists for that sort of thing

[ashen crown]

Tbh the Vulture’s flight feels less like “air support” and more just a pure mobility aid, since it can’t actually remain airborne. Makes it feels scrappier and slippery

There’s not really a big element of LoS aid or vertical distancing apart from putting obstacles between the Vulture and people it doesn’t like, unlike say an Ace or Hornet

[vagrant grotto]

Oh yeah no I’m aware, it’s just that taraxacum is designed to stay flying because of its passives while Vulture has a more “bursty” ability that requires staying close at the opportune moment

As in, its job leading up to using Magpie is to stay alive for the juicy payoff

In a way it’s the Sniper of supports lol

[placid glacier]

ah right I finally have a chance to say I have some feedback to share

[muted blaze]

That's true, The Taraxacum is literally a perfect mech

[umbral sluice]

TRUE

[muted blaze]

Any NPC Tarax analogues will be a false mimicry of peprfection

[umbral sluice]

unbiased and definitely didnt just play a tarax

[placid glacier]

I ran this mission last Friday finally, I just haven't been able to type my thoughts out because my weekend has been busy as hell with preparing to move out of my dorm

Sitrep: Seize-Control, 4 Objectives
Time to Completion: 5 Turns (5-2 Player Victory, called early)

Notes: Reiterating this was a mostly new player party with a single veteran from my regular party (Swallowtail Pilot)

Mesmerist

• Unfortunately was unable to do testing with Hall of Mirrors specifically but looks like that testing got done in between my drafting of this encounter and actually running it anyway :P
• On the whole, survivability of the mesmerist felt like it's in a decent enough place, at LL2, it lasted 3 turns before it got alpha striked by a heavy melee which then had the mech withdraw from the encounter.
• Similar feelings to when I run Mesmerists at LL6, so it feels on par at the level its at
  Boombox
• Decided to take the chance and test a Boombox at lower levels to see how Speed 4 compares in feeling between LL2 and LL6
• Definitely felt like it was more able to close distance and interpose easier with 4 speed at T1 vs T2, I know the idea of having scaling speed was tossed around a while back but seeing a 4/5/5 Boombox could be interesting.
• As a whole, new players didn't burst it down immediately so projected threat feels lower.
  Subwoofer
• Splitting the effective area of the Boombox really does help with letting it be more proactive with its own movement, while still keeping a specific area locked down.
• Was not a major target of player attack even though it was planted right next to an objective.
  Spotlight
• On the topic of projected threat feeling lower- I understand the place of this tool as a deterrence for Infiltrator players, it just feels like the lock-on is spotty and not strong enough to be a deterrence for most other player builds
• Feels a bit too specific a tool to be taking all the time.

@vagrant grotto

[vagrant grotto]

Thanks for the feedback! Glad Mesmerist feels good as does boombox. Noted on Spotlight feeling spotty (lol), gonna reread it and see if that’s fine at the moment

@placid glacier In what way(s) do you think Spotlight is spotty, specifically?

(Also good luck moving out!! Shit is always stressful)

[placid glacier]

I guess more that the system save for avoiding lock on doesn't feel particularly... worth it action wise when I can just. guarantee apply a lock-on at base and at the same time doesn't feel like it particularly denies players from walking into the area so the 'lingering' aspect of the lock on doesn't feel particularly good either

[visual nest]

Purely a RAW question, why is the Anomaly limited to one optional when for the Exotic it's up to two?
Especially as the Exotic has an additional base trait.

[muted blaze]

Exotic is up to 2?

Huh

Thought it was up to 1

[visual nest]

Yup and you get Hardened Target

And it's 2 additionals

[muted blaze]

As a template that doesn't strictly add + structure or activations it does mean that having less before optionals means it's easier to fine tune to what the GM wants

[vagrant grotto]

Do you really wanna track 2 of the anomaly’s optionals per anomaly

Exotic is bad enough with all its optionals; Anomaly is best IMO when it has one optional to be its “centerpiece”

I firmly believe in “less is more” as an approach to NPC features, in general

That said: Anomaly is the warranty-voiding template. So if you wanna run 2 optionals, go nuts

[vagrant grotto]

So I guess long story short: Rules are guidelines, and my guidelines are that Anomaly is interesting, compelling, and complicated with just one optional

[visual nest]

Honestly, I would be ok with it.
But I play in an open table one shot context so my bandwidth follows

It more that I find it funny that if you take an Exotic optional through the Anomaly, you kinda just have a worse Exotic.

RAW again

[vagrant grotto]

My take is that obscuring the class + templates is actually a form of power, that the regular Exotic lacks by trying to obscure its one or two features that aren’t obvious from being an Exotic itself

But yeah, just because CRB gives them up to 2 optionals doesn’t mean it should

In my game design opinion at least

[visual nest]

Oh, don't get me wrong it was more a "Huh, interesting, what was the decision behind that choice?" more that a "it's broken pls fix"

[visual nest]

Also that might get throw out of the bus for me as I play with Foundry and Tooltip Alt which reveals be default class and templates but I will look into playing with that

[vagrant grotto]

I just rename them to ??? Each

[visual nest]

Simple fix, I like it

[ashen crown]

By this Logic, how come Prototype is “technically unlimited” in terms of its own Optional Budget? (Aka it scales off the number of optionals the Prototype can take, which is always at least 2)

[ashen crown]

What I like to do (and stole from someone else I don’t recall) is turn the target from “Hostile” to “Secret”

[south cypress]

Has Anomaly's Metafold Hangar been tested much? I feel like it could be a good fit for tonight's season

[vagrant grotto]

Because I wanted Prototype to be a flexibility boost instead of a raw options boost

[vagrant grotto]

Yes, to rousing applause

[south cypress]

Nice

[vagrant grotto]

Folks love the walking spawn zone

[vagrant grotto]

Also: Because Novel Technology is good on its own too

I’m pretty sure I’ve answered both these questions before in the past, way upthread

But yeah, the wording of these “you get X features” features was very purposeful

Whereas the feature is the whole point of the Anomaly, you could instead mass-apply the Prototype and Brigand templates with no optionals chosen and not have too much trouble

[south cypress]

Ire playtest:
5 PCs (LL5):

• Agimaxxed melee Vlad
• Heavy Gunner + Centimane Hydra
• Melee Calendula
• 2x AssCan + Krakatoa Drake

Sitrep: Holdout-ish
Modified rules such that each time a character began a turn in the CZ they score a point for their team; first team to 12 points wins.
PCs won at the top of Round 5

Tested on a Holdout with no templates, but with Boil Over and Legion of the Damned.

• Round 1 Ire used Excruciating Transposition to jump to the far side of a Tempest Drone and bounce onto the front lnie, then hit the Drake with Flail of Gehenna + Bedevil, Vlad dive bombed it and missed a heavy melee Skirmish, then crit with an Integrated TacKnife, saw how little 4 Kinetic moved its hp bar, and said "oh fuck I don't know if I can kill this."
• Round 2 Ire got Pinning Spire'd and procced Boil Over against the Vlad's heavy melee skirmish, then missed its own Flail swing after Locking On. Mirage Dataveiled the Ire to prepare for a Bombard friendly fire situation, and Hydra deployed a Lotus Projector to counter that (Bombard stonks). Boil Over and Bedevil both hit the Vlad and two Hydra Drones.
• Round 3 Ire stayed in Pinning Spire and missed a Lock On + Flail again (Bedevilled Vlad and three Hydra Drones), Vlad dropped Pinning Spire, Ferrous Lashed the Ire into a wall, and re-upped Pinning Spire to stay out of Boil Over/Bedevil range and reposition away from the Bombard target cluster, then proceeded to ignore the Ire in favor of killing an Archer. Ire ended the round Prone, Slowed (separately, as it was in an unrelated Void Husk AoE), Immobilized, Shredded, and Locked On but still with 21 hp.
• Round 4 Mirage rescinded Dataveil because the Lotus Projector invalidated it anyway; Ire ate a Drake Assault Cannon Barrage (1 hit 1 miss) plus an Autopod; missed with the Flail again (Bedevilled two Hydra Drones) and then whiffed Legion of the Damned against the Hydra. Ended combat on 4 hp.

PC Feedback:

• Staying power feels a bit much with its high evasion, especially with repeatable overshield. Ire stood and ate enough damage that the Vlad decided that it was more worthwhile to use Pinning Spire to lock it down for the rest of the fight and just ignore it otherwise.
• Overshield on miss feels bad wrt consistency in activating Boil Over; PCs dislike that it's rewarded for missing, especially with Boil Over to capitalize further on Overshield.
• PCs dislike that Bedevil can proc multiple times per round, think that it would work well as a Reaction rather than a trait so that it wouldn't be able to proc on Flail Overwatches.
• PCs saw the rules text for Legion of the Damned and went "wow that's really cool, I kind of wish it had worked"

My thoughts:

• I agree that its staying power is a bit much since it was able to exist somewhat comfortably on the front line for 4 rounds straight against a melee/cqb-focused party.
• The combination of high Evasion, high HP, an inaccurate weapon, and traits that punish attackers for paying attention to it seemed to give it very low target priority once it was adequately placed in the Pinning Spire hole, as it never managed to hit the Vlad's 12 Evasion

Also, direct player quote: "With that much hp and consistent overshield this thing would be unbearable as an Ultra"
More theorycrafting based on its stats than feedback on how it performed, but thought it encapsulated their opinions overall somewhat well

[vagrant grotto]

Thank you for the feedback! Honestly surprised Ire lasted as long as it did; it definitely is a counter-melee and counter-cqb NPC, as its goal is to get folks off an objective (or suffer). Noted that they didn’t appreciate the higher-than-average evasion, and noted on the multi-procs

It didn’t get a chance to get Legion of the Damned off? If so, unlucky

@south cypress also, how does the Ire’s basic action rotation feel? And how well, in your estimation, did it fulfill its role (including whatever role you think it’s fulfilling)

[south cypress]

Yeah it only had the chance to use it once and it whiffed the tech attack

[south cypress]

Action rotation feels the tiniest bit wonky in that neither Excruciating Transposition or Legion of the Damned are tech attacks I'd want to try to use every turn, so the main gameplan once it was on the front line was to Lock On -> Skirmish to try (and fail) to break out of Pinning Spire.
As for its role, I deployed it hoping to lock the Vlad down and try to use Legion of the Damned to help its allies reach the control point quickly.
For the former it performed phenomenally, and for the latter as mentioned it failed due to a missed tech attack after a few rounds in which it didn't have LoS to allies that would want/could use the free movement (void husks were everywhere)

[vagrant grotto]

Nice nice noted then. Did you consider Ramming the vlad to break the pin by the way? I feel like Ram is good for its rotation in general too

Plus I believe RAW ram is a valid melee attack for breaking the pin

[south cypress]

Yes but I didn't want it to take Shrike Armor damage for an attack that wouldn't give it Overshield to compensate

[vagrant grotto]

Noted then; it sounded like it had OS to spare, that’s all, plus Boil Over for extra rudeness

In any case this was all helpful

[south cypress]

I think the players thought it had OS to spare because they were mostly just tossing stray attacks at it such that until the final round it was able to subsist on the overshueld from missing with the Flail while still getting to use Boil Over every round. In the final round the Drake + Hydra took over half its max hp in one turn via AssCans + Autopod. The Vlad just didn't want to engage it in general because he has 0 Engi and Boil Over threatened to overheat him by itself

[vagrant grotto]

Aight I’ve got some ideas for changes then

Thank you again for playtesting the Ire in this initial draft state!

Right now my thoughts are that I should lean hard into the self heat and do the following:

• make Bedevil a Protocol zap for self heat like manticore’s Lightning Generator instead of a reactive zap, and move the OS from the flail to Bedevil
• add heat resist to ruinous reactor
• give the flail something else; was thinking “on miss, you may take 2 heat to reroll the attack”
• change boil over to an effect that happens when it hits DZ and/or exposed instead of losing the OS

There’s also opportunity to instead add like, a “grudge marker” where the last character to damage the Ire gets marked and the next attack against them gets accuracy (Ire or an ally)

Hm or changing the flail’s on miss effect to “the target gains lock on”

[ashen crown]

I feel like losing the reactive zap does detract from the identity imo, but if it’s doing too much then it’s doing too much

[vagrant grotto]

So honestly I don’t know why i did the reactive zap because it’s one of my least favorite parts of Manticore. It’s too fucking easy to forget

Meanwhile Lightning Generator is much more proactive and on the forefront of my mind

I know that I use it start of turn, like standard upkeep

[ashen crown]

Fair enough

I might home brew my own Ultra Trait that makes the Zap a reaction for the Ire. For myself, that definitely sounds outside the PPG design philosophy

[vagrant grotto]

But yeah the whole “punish on self damage and heat” thing sounds cool until you realize it’s a lot of bookkeeping

So I’d rather emulate Manticore with other tools, like Beckoner/smite, Lightning Generator, and Castigate

[ashen crown]

For you IGF fans in this thread, especially the ones with experience in Act 2: ||the Bleach Boys WOULD use a Boombox or three||

[muted blaze]

||Eh, unsure...||

[twin escarp]

I just turn off the tooltip on that token specifically

Which I also do for terrain I'm using a deployable token for

It's always pretty cool seeing players go "Oh god wait I can't see this one's stuff"

[viscid ingot]

For me I edit the TTA of the Secret disposition and then do the wacky can't read it text there.

When I get home I'll show a sample of it.

[ashen crown]

Out of curiosity Valk, how do you run self destructing NPCs? The last two I ran were pilots that didn’t care about survival, and so they spent their final turns moving and boosting to blow up in PC’s faces

Asking because the Ire works with this so I’m curious how you run it

[vagrant grotto]

I haven’t yet, tbqh

But I’ve done it with Operators

Esp Kai’s rebake with Deniable asset or whatever the one is that bombs someone on death

Self destruct is not something I actively want to achieve, it’s more of a desperation move

Because it’s often very finicky and also a bit of a nothingburger

Burst 2 4d6 half on Agility Save is what, 14 damage on average? It’s Atlas missile tier, and usually highly telegraphed

[ashen crown]

Well I mean moreso “how do you run an NPC’s turn where they reactor meltdown at the end of it?”

Or I guess plan to

Cause so far I’ve been running them as “if the pilot plans to die, they get their full turn and rush the opposition”

However that feels less telegraphed and worse for doing what the Ire intends to use it for, which is hollering at people to leave it’s immediate vicinity ASAP

So I’m most curious to know what the intended order of operations is

[vagrant grotto]

I mean yeah basically

Run it how you think it runs best, with no punches pulled

Then report back on how it feels

[viscid ingot]

500 operators with bombs strapped to them.

[vagrant grotto]

I mean that’s a different problem. Mainly the “500” part

[silent flicker]

12 operators with bombs

[vagrant grotto]

Now we’re good 😤

[visual nest]

12 Eidolons with bombs

[vagrant grotto]

If any of you do pull a punch, write that down and include it in the feedback please and thank you

If I recreate a Scout Marker Rifle scenario I want it patched stat

Like, if my NPCs were run by the Lancer Tactics AI, I would want it to NOT resort to degenerate tactics (in both the reductive and moral sense)

[visual nest]

You want Ruinous Reactor as more of a big red button that is a sometimes food, basically?

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah basically

Like it should definitely become exposed with reckless abandon, don’t get me wrong

But like, hitting the big red button is very final when it could still be exerting a presence on the battlefield

That all said: if Self-Destruct speedruns are degenerate on the Ire (as in, it’s the optimal thing to do even if it’s undesirable behavior), I’ll restrict how it can do so

Any time the thought “I should self destruct, but shouldn’t because it’s rude/mean” occurs, write that down and put it in feedback

This is different from “I could self destruct, but it would be more fruitful to stay alive and continue to exert pressure”

I.E., if social convention discourages a certain tactic, I would prefer to prevent the tactic altogether

[visual nest]

And how does the Spiteful End fit into all of that, considering it pushes into self destruct more?

[vagrant grotto]

Well first of all, it’s a veteran feature, so triggering it prematurely is a waste of NPC budget

Second of all, it automatically triggers without an action from the Ire, so they don’t necessarily have to commit to it on their own (though they can if they want to)

The big question right now is “do I replace the manual self destruct with an automatic self destruct on destruction”

[visual nest]

Gotcha

[vagrant grotto]

For which I await playtest feedback

[mental burrow]

Slightly off topic but now I'm curious what this refers to

[vagrant grotto]

The Scout hits you with a Marker Rifle. You gain lock on, and for as long as you have lock on, you are shredded and can’t hide or become invisible

This incentivizes a GM to simply never consume lock on, as persisting the benefits of the Marker Rifle often outweigh the opportunity cost of forgoing the accuracy from lock on

Another simpler example is “the Tier 3 operator shoots you three times” instead of spreading out its damage, nailing someone for 21 damage if all shots hit (which is likely at +6 and 2 base accuracy)

Any time a tactic is Pooh-poohed away as “oh, the GM just shouldn’t do that, it’s rude” is a hole in design IMO, and I want to plug those holes in my own stuff

[ashen crown]

The big exception to this is probably Reinforcements

[vagrant grotto]

Don’t get me fucking started on reinforcements lol

I’m still trying to square that circle

[ashen crown]

I stand corrected

[visual nest]

Wait what?
Reinforcements?

[vagrant grotto]

Usage of reinforcements often has a “difficulty valve” associated with it where if the GM doesn’t want to overwhelm players, they decide to hold reinforcements back

I’m more okay with it in the case of “I am strictly sticking to NPC turns = PC count + 2 and I’m limited to 2 new NPCs per turn” but there’s still a slight element of fudging that I’m not supremely comfortable with

I’m very much a “follow the procedure so players know what to expect and can plan around it” guy

[visual nest]

I can see it, ok

[steel apex]

In much broader terms, the Scout Marker Rifle Problem can be summed up as "it's bad to make a thing that takes a quick action to stick, but costs a full action to clear"

A lot of Lancer's "sticky" type effects take a full action to deploy, things like Lock/Hold Javelins for instance, or are alternately substantially gated by prerequisites like the Breacher's Dual Shotguns leading into Break Armor, but generally you don't want to make a system that goes "quick action: this requires a full action to negate"

it's very easy to stick someone into a loop of either negative action econ or having to live with the penalty that way

[thin depot]

Would the Scout Marker Rifle issue be negated if the Shredded while locked on was changed to an optional Quick Action after Marker Rifle hit or would that cause other issues

[steel apex]

I mean, in my opinion what negates the issue is not tying Shredded to the state of being Locked On

which is how like 99% of most "on hit become Condition" effects work in lancer

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah no as Kai points out this is a solved problem

[thin depot]

Oh I see yea

I like that

[vagrant grotto]

And also: making it a separate “quick action invoke” like Metafold maze still leads to “2 actions of cure to clear 2 actions of harm” which is still very potent

[thin depot]

Yea true

[vagrant grotto]

Part of CRB marker rifle’s issue is also that it makes rebound scan redundant, and if nobody actually consumes the lock on then Scout really isn’t doing much other than Invading/hiding/Stealth field

And like yeah of course you the GM could consume the lock on, but then there’s downtime in the Shredded and you sacrifice the action penalty hanging over the players’ heads, encouraging them to consider stabilizing

Anyway

[thin depot]

Very simple solution Idk why I didn't immediately consider it lmfao

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah Kai’s rebake frankly does the trick (and it also removes the Invisible removal, so rebound scan gets more value)

In any case, if any of my NPCs have something like that, I want it gone

So, if giving the Ire free rein to self destruct leads to unhealthy play patterns, I’ll rework it or gut it

[vagrant grotto]

Realizing I might’ve missed an opportunity not calling the Ire the “Riot”

Though that does switch the tone and contexts a bit

[ashen crown]

I’ve been thinking about the Ire again and how I plan to run it… eventually, and 2 things came to mind:

1. With Self-Destruct, the normal range would be “NPC double move, then burst 2”. But the Ire with Excrutiating Transportation adds 5 extra spaces to that range, and if it’s gonna self destruct anyway then it doesn’t care about 1d6 Energy anymore. So if I run Ires in the near future (if this happens expect to win the lottery lmao), I’m deploying 2 Untemplated Ires to see how trying to rush for Ruinous Reactor goes, and how the Ire’s mobility effects that.

2. Thanks to PPG with the Ire, Zealot, and possibly others, it is now plenty possible to run a Sitrep of “Oops all 5 Sensors” lol… I mean this was possible in CRB but now it’s more dynamic cause all but the Bastion & Hornet 5 sensors gang in CRB are Strikers

[vagrant grotto]

The nice thing is that my 5 sensor folks are actually mobile haha, Zealot stocks are high

[ashen crown]

I mean Cataphract and Hornet are pretty mobile

But point observed

[vagrant grotto]

Ah fair, was thinking about bastion

NEVERMIND

I think if you give something 5 sensors you gotta give it some speed

[ashen crown]

Bastion and Breacher are probably the slowest 5 sensors gang

[vagrant grotto]

Or a long gun

Also: revisiting my thoughts on arcing and seeking again

Thinking about MAC Attack

It has “guided” weapons and all they really do is change the accuracy calculation (which by default is the sum of how fast you’re moving and how fast your target is moving)

A weapon with a Guided tag (i.e. seeking) instead has a target number of twice the lowest value of your motion or your target’s motion

Basically, it lets you move fast and shoot slow targets easier, or move slow and shoot fast targets easier

But ultimately it doesn’t change what you can target

You still need line of sight (by default), you just get an accuracy buff

Which frankly has me thinking that maybe Seeking could be a lighter touch than what I currently have

Example: Seeking doesn’t let you circumvent line of sight, but it reduces difficulty from cover by 1

[muted blaze]

Had a dumb thought...

About seeking

[vagrant grotto]

In a way, a conditional form of Accurate

[vagrant grotto]

Let’s hear it

[muted blaze]

Select a point in range, then calculate range and LOS from that point

[vagrant grotto]

Does the point need to be in LOS

[muted blaze]

Seeking range 10, select a point in range 7 then calculate the attack at range 3 from there

[muted blaze]

Yes

[vagrant grotto]

Mmm okay so some pathing

Seeking weapons get pathfinding

[muted blaze]

Basic ass pathing that doesn't require 50 billion years to calculate

Idk if I'm a fan but it's a neat concept

[vagrant grotto]

I could dig it

[muted blaze]

Then arcing is the same thing but it can only be UP then down

That's a silly suggestion

[ashen crown]

Makes Phase-Ready more distinct too

[vagrant grotto]

I don’t know if it’ll do much for like, Swarm/hive… buuuuut you could just airburst it

Like target a point in the air and then LOS from that point

[ashen crown]

I could see Seeking being pure Horizontal and Arcing being pure vertical

[muted blaze]

It does mean seeking does nothing about area cover

[ashen crown]

Yeah, but how accessible do you want to make ignoring cover to be in the first place is the question

[vagrant grotto]

This is the clincher for me

More thoughts

Accurate: Change to “this weapon’s final attack rolls can never be affected by difficulty”
Inaccurate: Change to “this weapon’s final attack rolls can never be affected by accuracy”

And for Arcing: “This weapon may attack targets in range without line of sight as long as an ally has line of sight to the target. If it does so, all attack rolls made for this attack gain the Inaccurate tag.”

[ashen crown]

I imagine, Valk, that if you were to remake Lancer from the ground up, ignoring cover would be moved to a frame trait at most. This is a neutral statement.

[vagrant grotto]

Read these tags largely independent of each other

Ignoring cover would be difficult to obtain

The point of cover and obstructions is to keep the fight from becoming a white room

Seeking and arcing flatten maps

Arcing only tends to get a pass because half its weapons are inaccurate and ordnance anyway

[ashen crown]

I’d say it only flattens maps if, say, both sides have access.

If only one side or limited units have access, it actually makes terrain more relevant by putting arcing and seeking havers at a significant advantage while opponents have to suffer from either being unable to address the attacker or having to play ring-around-the-rosey with them. This sounds worse for the record.

[vagrant grotto]

I actively play an Arbalest Ranger in PF2E; in order to ignore Lesser Cover and minor Concealment, I have to use Hunter’s Aim, which costs me an extra action of my precious 3 to shoot

If I could shoot my crossbow around corners without cover penalties for free, I would stop playing. It would not be engaging for me

All of the engaging friction of positioning would disappear

No point in getting in a risky position to get a good shot, I can just hide in a hole

So yeah no, I have a restrained and judicious approach to reducing line of sight penalties

I think imma test the above changes to arcing and seeking

[ashen crown]

Now I’m thinking about how this applies to PPG NPCs. Napalm ignores LoS but suffers the classic “Attack Difficulty” stuff + takes self heat w/ no inherent way to clear it aside from Stabilize, Prism simply occupies multiple places at once so it’s actually not that much less restricted, and while Capacitor does have accuracy to ignore cover penalties it’s specific weapon pattern and gimmicks prompt it to put a lot of effort into positioning to fulfill its role

Ofc NPCs are a different ballpark to PCs

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah, for NPCs it’s tougher because they don’t use the Inaccurate tag

[ashen crown]

And also NPCs being less active isn’t necessarily that bad since they can be designed to specialize into that Niche with few ways to leave it. NPCs are ultimately meant to be fodder for the PCs- the, being sitting ducks can be part of the design intent

Versus PCs who can easily circumvent most all negative tags except ordnance

[ashen crown]

Unrelated- if you ever wanted to make Last Judge a Lancer Enemy, Ire provides a strong foundation for the vibes

[vagrant grotto]

I may have been subconsciously channeling that yeah huh

[ashen crown]

She’s a good inspo

And hey if you ever need to scrap and replace an Ire ability now you can use her as potential conscious inspiration lol

[void wave]

sorry you said Judge and my mind went to "Judge Holden" and I went "why the FUCK would you make Judge Holden a Lancer character"

I then had the foresight to google what the last judge was

[ashen crown]

Looked up Judge Holden, and while there would be some good points about why not to do that I feel like he’d be good inspo for a Lancer antagonist

[void wave]

yeah I would NOT play Judge Holden in a Lancer game

I would do a Not!NestleCEO or someone really fucked up but, not Judge Holden

but go on about the inspo

[ashen crown]

Anyway nah I meant this bad bitch

[void wave]

never played Silksong

[ashen crown]

Hits you with flaming bell-censer flail

That’s all you need to know

Hence why Ire feels like a good foundation for her

[vagrant grotto]

plus she also ||fucking self-destructs when you kill her|| so she fits well in that regard too

[south cypress]

Ghast Nexus

[vagrant grotto]

Okay so, for Boombox's Spotlight, I'm considering the following:

Spotlight
System, Arcing, Recharge 4+, Quick Tech
The Boombox creates a Blast 2 area in SENSORS extending 10 spaces high. Hostile characters that start their turn in the area or enter it for the first time in a round gain LOCK ON and must make an ENGINEERING save. On a failure, until the end of their next turn, they are SHREDDED while within this area. Creating a new area destroys any old ones.

I am also trying scaling the Boombox's speed to 4/5/6, Tier 3 feedback will be welcomed for this

I am also going to try this on Howler

[muted blaze]

3/5/7

[vagrant grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-16823614953360835628

[muted blaze]

😭

[ashen crown]

Hm, why remove the anti invis and hidden element?

[vagrant grotto]

I wanted to add an Engineering save and reintroduce Shredded

plus idk, there's a lot of anti-invis tools out there already

how's the vibe on this

[ashen crown]

Seems fine to me- it’s an optional recharge and if I were to compare to similar effects across this supplement and the Kai rebakes (CRB’s closest comparable thing is Shroud Zone and that’s not even closely comparable), seems to be in line in terms of power. Blast 2 seems warranted

And the Lock On being automatic while the Shred is a save also seems fair

(The primary point of comparison in my eyes is Skyhammer Salvo, and that’s a base trait, no recharge, and Burst 1 on a higher sensors NPC, so seems fair)

[vagrant grotto]

thinking if I commit to shredded I'll bump the Recharge to 5 as well

[ashen crown]

The most noteworthy thing about it to me is that the Boombox AOEs tend to be self originating + temporary or able to be shut down by the players in the case of Subwoofer. This breaks that mold by a long shot, but having a wildcard optional isn’t a bad thing, especially since this is Lighting themed for a Sound themed NPC

[vagrant grotto]

Okay the current Shredded duration doesn't make a lot of sense, so I'm thinking instead:

On a failure, they are SHREDDED until they end their turn outside of the area.

[ashen crown]

I’m a big fan of conditions that last so long until you fulfill a requirement

I gotta ask Rules Questions if effects like these are removed when the user is destroyed, and if not I’d wonder if you’d want to make it so that the Spotlight is removed upon Boombox destruction

[vagrant grotto]

It's not a drone and it doesn't have a duration component tied to the Boombox so I'm inclined to say it's indefinite

ask #rules-questions for any precedents though

[ashen crown]

I am too, which then raises the question: do you want it to be indefinite?

[vagrant grotto]

I'm fine with it

do I really need to say "it lasts until the end of the scene"

[ashen crown]

I wouldn’t

[vagrant grotto]

I did it, it fits, thank fuck

[ashen crown]

It’s just strange to me that such a large and impactful effect is indefinite and can’t be shut down. Same with Null Grav to a degree. But stuff like that happens with core NPCs not infrequently so eh

Mainly difficult terrain but there’s other stuff

[vagrant grotto]

Wandering Nightmare and Tesseract are here as counterexamples playerside

to say nothing of Prospector

[ashen crown]

Those are PC effects tho- I wouldn’t put them in the same category

[vagrant grotto]

I would

if PCs, who must traditionally have very small and piecemeal abilities due to their combinatorical power, can get Tesseract and Wandering Nightmare, then Boombox, an NPC, which are made to be potent but short lived, can get Spotlight until the end of the scene

[ashen crown]

Fair enough

I’m trying to silence the Watsonian part of my brain that just asks “but if they’re gone then who’s generating the effect????” because that absolutely does not matter lmao. There’s also the wild part of my brain thinking “3 boomboxes with this ability would be screwy” but at that point that’s on the GM.

[vagrant grotto]

@sudden cosmos I'm appending this to Carcass Bunker:

Otherwise, the bunker is not an obstruction, but costs 1 additional space of movement to enter.

thoughts/feelings?

It's this or like, I could make it cause Engagement? idk how I feel about that though

[muted blaze]

Is this because a bug ticket said "why isn't it an instrument??"

Wait

What the fuck

[vagrant grotto]

I'm confused about "Instrument"

[muted blaze]

Obstruction

I think auto correct fucked me

[vagrant grotto]

okay

someone mentioned that at one point so I'm taking a moment to clarify it while adding a bonus ability to it

[muted blaze]

This go both ways I assume?

So it effects the vultures allies

[vagrant grotto]

yes

[sudden cosmos]

Because I'm a freak, my gut says make it dangerous terrain

But making it harder to push into works too

[vagrant grotto]

dangerous terrain???

[sudden cosmos]

yeah, like, it hurts to push through

[vagrant grotto]

I can see the vision

I'm feeling like I want it to be ally/enemy agnostic though

what if

Otherwise, the bunker is not an obstruction, but costs a quick action to enter.

[sudden cosmos]

casually opens door of the flesh wall

makes sense, but the verbiage might use some childproofing

[vagrant grotto]

The bunker is not an obstruction, but costs a quick action as part of any movement to enter.

[muted blaze]

Personally, I didn't mind it as it was

[vagrant grotto]

I forget, did you playtest Carcass Bunker at one point?

[muted blaze]

I don't think I have

So mine is ✨ vibes ✨ based

[vagrant grotto]

aight, I'm making this change off of Isa's playtest feedback

[muted blaze]

Ok fair enough

[sudden cosmos]

to be entirely fair, that was a vibes thing

[vagrant grotto]

I mean you saw it in action yeah?

[muted blaze]

I honestly don't know if I have seen it in action... I might have but it was oh so long ago

💀

[sudden cosmos]

I haven't picked it as an optional. This time I forced it and used it ASAP to try and catch a vibe

And it felt like it could use a little extra spice if the intent is to make it an area denial tool

So maybe the question is, what's carcass bunker supposed to be doing?

[vagrant grotto]

Provide a defensive zone to reinforce a faltering frontline

I'm imagining it being a tool to "replace" a fallen frontline Bastion or Goliath

[muted blaze]

So I saw it as an analogue to say the drake bunker. But that's good at holding against ranged attacks. If that's specially the goal being an obstruction also makes sense

Obstruction as in: fucks with movement in a way

[vagrant grotto]

it makes more sense to have some "obstructing" qualities given where the Vulture is likely to be when it deploys it

[sudden cosmos]

Then I absolutely think it could use a little extra stink. At the moment, players were just kinda like

"okay"

[vagrant grotto]

Drake Bunker is very Rearguarded in terms of "I am far from the frontline and am thus a ranged defense tool"

[sudden cosmos]

and walked into it to punch the vulture

[muted blaze]

Yeeee

I think the it causes engagement is kinda neat...

[vagrant grotto]

anyway, I'll come back to Carcass in a sec

[sudden cosmos]

idk. I'm stuck on the idea of it being a damage-oriented threat rather than an econ tax (either by using a QA to enter, or by breaking it)

[muted blaze]

Any of these ideas seem neat to me tbh

If you end your turn next to a carcass bunker, YOU DIE

IN REAL LIFE

[sudden cosmos]

Gives the punisher choice of "do you want the risk of damage or do you want the econ tax"

A/N: I'm a sicko

[vagrant grotto]

Bedevil
Trait, 1 Heat (Self), Protocol
The Ire gains OVERSHIELD 3/5/7 and inflicts 1/1/2 Energy AP to hostile characters in Range 2.

Flail of Gehenna
Heavy Melee, 2 Heat (Self), Knockback 2
+1/+2/+3, +1 Difficulty [Threat 2][7/9/11 Kinetic]
On Miss: The target gains LOCK ON.

Excruciating Transposition
System, Recharge 5+, Quick Tech
The Ire teleports to a space occupied by a hostile character in SENSORS. The target must pass a SYSTEMS save or gain 2/3/4 Heat and become STUNNED until the start of their next turn. Success or fail, the Ire then takes 1d6 Energy AP damage and is placed in a free space adjacent to the target.

RUINOUS REACTOR    Trait
While EXPOSED, the Ire has RESISTANCE to all damage, Heat , and Burn. If the Ire destroyed while Exposed, its wreckage explodes as per a reactor meltdown (Lancer, p. 81) at the end of the round.

Reworking Ire's base kit

[sudden cosmos]

on miss effect goes crazy

that's some freak shit right there

[vagrant grotto]

folks didn't like that it gained Overshield on hit, so I moved it to a protocol and added that on-miss lol

[muted blaze]

On miss target gains lock on

Neat

[vagrant grotto]

to everyone who was wondering where the Off-Support role was on the Ire: Here ya go

[sudden cosmos]

yeah no that rules

[vagrant grotto]

I'm adding Knockback 2 to the Flail as well just because it feels right

[muted blaze]

"yeah I'm a support. I apply lock on"

"THATS BECAUSE YOUR ROLLS ARE DOGSHIT! YOU MISSED A BARBAROSSA 3 FUCKING TIMES!!!"

[sudden cosmos]

every sentinel I use be like

[muted blaze]

7/9/11 is gnarly. Doesn't seem bad tho

For an inaccurate smirmish

[vagrant grotto]

My other idea was "1/turn on miss, you make take 2 heat to reroll the attack"

but I like the Lockon more

faster

[muted blaze]

Yeah faster

What's uuuuuuuuuuuuh save?

Target

Stunned until start of turn is gnarly and I'd closely watch that, just because it shuts down a lot of active abilities

[vagrant grotto]

12/14/16 ST

[vagrant grotto]

It's Recharge 5+, they'll live

[muted blaze]

Faaair

But, Goodbye dd288 charge or

Wwit

[vagrant grotto]

BOIL OVER    Trait, 1/round
When the Ire overheats, hostile characters in Range 2 gain 2/3/4 Heat.

Reduced to 1/round, changed to trigger to Overheating, increased scaling from flat 2 to 2/3/4. Is this nutty

[muted blaze]

Why not burst 2?

It changes nothing

[vagrant grotto]

Range 2 doesn't hit Hidden

[muted blaze]

Sick

[vagrant grotto]

that's my understanding at least

[muted blaze]

Yeah

[vagrant grotto]

feels more like a targeted effect than an AOE this way

[muted blaze]

What persistent effects end on stunned... DD charge, leviathan charge...

[void wave]

thinking that if you end a movement or start a turn in it it damages the player character

not used it tho

so I'm just shitballing ideas

[vagrant grotto]

In my brain, Carcass Bunker is "dumb" and doesn't see IFF tags

so whatever it does, it'll do in all cases

[muted blaze]

It has the "stupid" tag

[vagrant grotto]

SPITEFUL END (VETERAN)    Trait
The Ire may SELF-DESTRUCT while in the DANGER ZONE or EXPOSED. When the Ire suffers a reactor meltdown (such as from SELF-DESTRUCT), the explosion becomes a Burst 3 area and deals 8d6 Explosive damage. The Ire may cancel this SELF-DESTRUCT by taking the STABILIZE action.

realized I moved the reactor meltdown to Ruinous Reactor, so I'm rewording this

basically, the Ire reveals it's wearing a bomb vest and uses that to scare folks away

also as an aside: I'm changing Zealot's Rally the Righteous from a Quick Tech to a Full tech. There's too much going on in that action to warrant a Quick action, especially since it'll hog table time while it resolves

[viscid ingot]

Late but not sure if Bastion 4 Speed is Slow.

[vagrant grotto]

oh no I agree, it's just relatively slow

[viscid ingot]

It is a Size 2 thicc lad, that 4 Speed moves faster than players think lol.

Then I made my bastion Speed 5 for the memes.

[vagrant grotto]

yeah no Speed 4 is a good, respectable speed, just in the Sensors 5 Cohort it's literally the second slowest in speed

first slowest is Breacher, and even it has a burst speed ability

otherwise yes I agree with you

[viscid ingot]

Though to be fair.

Most players don't realize the Bastion can fucking BOOK IT because the Bastion is always hovering around allies to protect them.

[vagrant grotto]

anyway, I'm wondering if Legion of the Damned should have an on-miss effect or something

[viscid ingot]

That's Ire's tech attack isn't it?

[vagrant grotto]

yeah

[viscid ingot]

Remind me again of its current iteration? I'm away from my PC at the moment.

[vagrant grotto]

Legion of the Damned
System, Recharge 6+, Quick Tech, +2/+4/+6

The Ire makes a tech attack against a target within SENSORS. On a hit, the target is SLOWED until the end of their next turn, and all of the Ire’s allies with line of sight to the target may move their SPEED directly towards them as a reaction, ignoring engagement and reactions.

This is what i'm thinking instead:

Legion of the Damned
System, Recharge 6+, Quick Tech, +2/+4/+6

The Ire makes a tech attack against a target within SENSORS. On a hit, the target is IMPAIRED and SLOWED until the end of their next turn. Hit or miss, all of the Ire’s allies with line of sight to the target may move their SPEED directly towards them as a reaction, ignoring engagement and reactions.

[viscid ingot]

I'd lower the statline from 2/4/6 to 2/3/4 instead despite the Recharge.

An ally moving their SPEED as a reaction can be very dangerous if the map is more open fielded.

But if you are keeping the 2/4/6 then I would suggest making the movement 3 Spaces instead.

Hit or miss it would still be pressure.

[vagrant grotto]

It'll be either 1/2/3 or 2/4/6

I'll drop the attack bonus to 1/2/3 since there's now a hit-or-miss effect

aight that's looking good

[ashen crown]

Why have an on miss effect in the first place? The Ire's big Bedevil gimmick gives it a "guarantee" when it comes to damage output already so I'm not really sure what the On Miss effect is contributing apart from a potential Support element

[vagrant grotto]

It gives it a chance to hit easier next round

I want an On Miss effect on the big heavy inaccurate flail

[ashen crown]

Fair enough

[vagrant grotto]

mind is back to Carcass Bunker

[ashen crown]

On Miss effects are interesting on NPCs but I'm getting the feeling they're not easy to design based on how Isa's group had feedback on how an NPC can be rewarded for missing. Very much makes weapons become a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" thing in a way that's slightly a step above Reliable. At least it gives Orchis more stuff

Hopefully this Lock On works out well

[vagrant grotto]

Lock On is cheap and easy

[ashen crown]

Exactly

[vagrant grotto]

I want it Ramming anyway

[ashen crown]

The Ire seems to sorta have a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" gimmick coming together tbh

[vagrant grotto]

and yeah that's Ire for you

[ashen crown]

What with Legion getting its movement on Miss, Excruciating teleporting regardless of the conditions inflicted, Reactor Meltdown baseline now being automatic instead of requiring action input (I like this quite a bit feels like it can take a mental load off the GM), Flail on miss, and ofc Bedevil

[vagrant grotto]

If anyone asks "what's the counterplay" I'm gonna point at Immobilized and Slowed

[ashen crown]

Come to think of it, Zealot used to occupy a similar niche lol. Funny how that happened to both the most Cultist themed frames

[vagrant grotto]

90% of Ire's kit is Range 2 and the rest is Sensors 5, slow it down and it'll have a rough time

as evidenced by the Pinning Spire Vlad RidiculousFalcon had

[ashen crown]

As an aside, with Ruinous Reactor and Boil Over... just existing, period, I feel like having the Ire's Heat Cap scale is just more of a debuff than a buff to the Ire, if that's anything. While resistance to all + exposed isn't exactly net neutral damage it essentially is a sort of pseudo-Exposed immunity, meaning (even with 1 stress for all IMO) the Ire wants to be overheated more than it doesn't due to what that enables.

Also if the Ire resists all Burn while Exposed, it's worth noting Exposed does not double Burn, so it just gains outright free Burn Resistance. That sounds funny to me tho so I say keep it.

Overheated does shut down its offensive kit tho so testing could easily prove me wrong, but even still with Boil Over being able to get into a loop of Overheating, scaring away opposition, and then stabilizing seems to be something to try when running an Ire

[vagrant grotto]

re: Burn: Yeah that was already the case though, at least

I half-considered explicitly spelling out Kinetic, Energy, Explosive, and Heat, and decided "fuck it, Manticore resists burn"

[vagrant grotto]

ah fuck you're right

kinda wanted it to not give a shit

ah well

[ashen crown]

I honestly think it ignoring effects like Overheated flattens it a bit, in a not positive way

[vagrant grotto]

Ruinous Reactor isn't an end goal here

[ashen crown]

True, but the whole purpose of Higher Heat Cap is to avoid Overheating, and if the Ire actually enjoys Overheating- even in some minor way- then why have it scale?

[vagrant grotto]

you literally just pointed out it doesn't actually enjoy it

it can't use its kit!

[ashen crown]

Oh huh

Okay now I understand

[vagrant grotto]

so if anything it just forces a heatgunner to think twice before exposing it

[ashen crown]

It's like Scorpion

[vagrant grotto]

if a heatgunner exposes it, and someone kills it before it stabilizes, it'll explode

If the Ire survives until its next turn, it could Stabilize, or it could ride the lightning and grab someone

[ashen crown]

Yeah so Overheated being something it doesn't like actually makes the Ire have more texture and allows players to wait out the Detonation Window, a fun source of counterplay

[vagrant grotto]

on paper, yes

this is still a nascent NPC

needs more playtests

especially after this coming update

[ashen crown]

It's had 1 so far lol (Isa's Falcon's)

[vagrant grotto]

precisely

and no, that was RidiculousFalcon's

[ashen crown]

Oh wait

Oops

IGF Act 2 Spoilers: ||If I weren't literally starting up the Karrakin arc I'd have so many good excuses to use Ires -_-||

Maybe I can shoehorn it in somewhere

Ires paired with Rebake Witches also sounds like a fun combo

[viscid ingot]

Players get fancy stuff when they consume Lock On. So it should be fair that certain NPCs will also get fancy stuff when consuming Lock On.
(My humble opinion.)

[silent flicker]

especially when consuming lock on. No lock on and you gain an effect

[muted blaze]

A worry I have with this is different numbers to keep track of depending on fielded enemies

My concern is for the speed of the game, it might take up a while for a GM to check the speed of a bastion, barricade, cataphract, hornet and sentinel in the LOS of a PC then move them said speed

[ashen crown]

going the route of Zealot and making the speed fixed or just limiting the number of characters that can benefit both seem like good streamlines

[vagrant grotto]

I'm gonna commit to what I have for next release and welcome feedback

[vagrant grotto]

@sudden cosmos Regarding Carcass Bunker again: How did you feel about its size/footprint on the battlefield?

[vagrant grotto]

I've been rethinking Carcass Bunker and I am thinking of retooling it into the following:

“Carcass” Rampart (HP 10, Evasion 5, E-Defense 5, Tags: Deployable)

Destroy an adjacent wreckage to deploy a number of ramparts equal to the wreckage's Size + 3/4/5 in free spaces adjacent to each other. Each rampart is a piece of Size 4 hard cover that occupies a single space.

I think this is slightly less finicky

[sudden cosmos]

That certainly clears up the ambiguity of getting into/out of it

[vagrant grotto]

I'm adding a clause about where it can be deployed (i.e. one rampart must share a space with the former wreckage) but yeah I think I'm gonna go with this

big-ass hard cover zone doesn't make a lotta sense on this thing

Update to 1.22!

So, anyone worried about the Ire spamming Self-Destruct: That's no longer the case! Now they just explode without much control over when it happens (unless they're a Veteran with Spiteful End)

[ashen crown]

Technically you wouldn’t spam Self Destruct and moreso you’d spam Ire’s that rush to Self Destruct (semantics)

[vagrant grotto]

for those semantics, I am sending 500 Ires to your location

[ashen crown]

There we go lol

[sudden cosmos]

Brain interpreted "spam self destruct" in a funny way.

You can spam self destruct.

👆 once

[muted blaze]

So seeking just eats shit with LOS?

[vagrant grotto]

yup

[muted blaze]

Valid

[vagrant grotto]

if you want to avoid LOS, grab Arcing

otherwise it's a cover mitigant

[muted blaze]

A sentiment I agree with, however unfortunately seeking weapons are built around the fact they already ignore LOS

[vagrant grotto]

they'll live

[muted blaze]

Ye

And do arcing weapons have bad accuracy on targets in LOS?

[vagrant grotto]

-# oh no Gandivas whatever shall I do

[vagrant grotto]

no, only if the attack benefits from the allied part

otherwise it shoots as normal

[muted blaze]

Coolio

[vagrant grotto]

I could've also said something like "attacks that benefit from this gain the inaccurate tag" I guess but it's whatever, that's what testing is for

Now, Arcing and Seeking can stack meaningfully

[muted blaze]

(this is not a design commentary on PPG I'm just ranting about CRB) I stand by the fact that seeking should be only "ignore cover" then anything that wants to also ignore LOS should have seeking and arcing simultaneously

[vagrant grotto]

sure, I can get that

[ashen crown]

Not all of them- and for the ones that depend on it just give them arcing

Like Smartguns losing the ability to Ignore LoS is probably an improvement

[muted blaze]

I need to remind myself why guns have seeking

[vagrant grotto]

I was mostly inspired by Hunter's Aim in PF2E that could ignore Lesser Cover but not Standard cover

and MAC Attack's Guided tag

basically, a small bump in accuracy in certain situations but not all

I could've had it ignore soft cover but eat shit on hard cover

but I'm gonna see how "accurate vs. cover" plays out

[muted blaze]

Eh, yeah seeking weapons can eat shit

The only weapon I think this is unfair for is the bolt nexus which already struggles

But tbh

It can eat the collective punishment for the greater good

[ashen crown]

I feel like you could just as easily give it arcing, it’s just one weapon

[vagrant grotto]

yeah I'd encourage GMs to give the ones that are hurting the Arcing tag to compensate

[muted blaze]

I mean

Looking through it bolt nexus is the only one

They still reduce the effects of cover

Oh no, my smart gun now has a flat roll against the person in cover! Not a +1

[vagrant grotto]

and they need line of sight

that'll rustle some jimmies

[ashen crown]

That was inevitable

[vagrant grotto]

Anyway, I'm hoping that these new variants on Arcing/Seeking are straightforward enough in play

Heat Seeking was cute but not feasible and daisy-chained arcing LOS was just a hassle

[muted blaze]

Huh

Rainmaker is the rare scenario something CRB has arcing seeking

Neat

[vagrant grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/good-for-her-arrested-development-lucille-bluth-gif-27543686

[south cypress]

Something I've been thinking about wrt Excruciating Transposition: should the Ire get to choose which space it lands in adjacent to the target or should it be locked to the closest free space to the Ire's starting point?
I ask because I used it on Monday to jump behind a Tempest Drone that was guarding a choke point and ride the knockback toward the CZ, and I'm not sure how I feel about having been able to do that

[vagrant grotto]

Yes, it should have that choice

Telefrag allows it on Operator and Ire should have it too

[south cypress]

Alright cool

[vagrant grotto]

that way it can position in a way to leverage the new Knockback on the flail, as well as establish which direction it wants to pressure enemies away from

[sudden cosmos]

Another silly question about Kensei's disarming parry

or is max speed the point there

[vagrant grotto]

it's supposed to be "up to"

ugh another one for the bug tracker

[sudden cosmos]

I will edit manually for now

[vagrant grotto]

these things are fuckin hard to catch sometimes

[sudden cosmos]

that's why you've got us gremlins

[vagrant grotto]

thanks for catching it yeah!

[viscid ingot]

Wording issues and mishaps are really difficult to catch first try. It is no problemo man.

[sudden cosmos]

I'm wondering if I should hit the party with Awakening

Long campaign. Would make an interesting effect.

[sudden cosmos]

I've decided against awakening but I am thinking about giving a spite Memento Culpa

"you get rid of the virus by getting adjacent to the spite"

"anyways you can't get any closer to the spite"

[vagrant grotto]

Aight checking: anybody down for an LL6 playtest on <t:1777140000:F>

Ping me if you’re interested, usual rules

[viscid ingot]

[muted blaze]

Very busy 😔

[sudden cosmos]

Henlo

[vagrant grotto]

nice, that's one

[serene tangle]

I should be able to make it

[ashen crown]

Question about Firewall Molt- can the Afterimage take Heat? If so, would any tech action that inflicts heat not just immediately destroy it due to heat being converted to energy damage (since it has no heat cap)?

Oh wait

[vagrant grotto]

It’s an object, so yeah it can take heat but it’s not hackable

[ashen crown]

I misread it- the Afterimage isn’t affected by the tech action it just halts it, I misunderstood the trait

[vagrant grotto]

It’s like if Warframe Sarin’s Molt continued to eat effects after you made it

[vagrant grotto]

Realizing I have some extra space on the first page of NPC Templates to explain my design process behind Anomaly and the “Scan Templates”, and how they are intended to encourage scanning. I think I’m gonna do that on next update

Primarily including “if you use Horror’s Abominable on Anomaly, that’s on you” or the like

[vagrant grotto]

Bumping this, currently have 2 seats available

[ashen crown]

Question about Brigand’s Shredding Claws:

What’s the purpose of the second bullet point, and what benefits does it have beyond just a regular grapple?

[south cypress]

Isn't it a forced Dismount?

[ashen crown]

It’s a grapple that involves a forced dismount but I fail to see how it’s more effective than grappling the pilot and moving one space

Or inflicting Knockback, or any other number of ways to inflict Knockback and remove the pilot from their cockpit once they’re exposed

[vagrant grotto]

Grappling the pilot and moving one space does not mean the pilot can leave the mech

The intent is that you’re still “welded” to your mech, you’re just vulnerable

I can make a FAQ for this

[ashen crown]

Huh, didn’t personally read it like that but makes sense. I was thinking of being “mounted but vulnerable” as a similar scenario to being… grappled by your cockpit I suppose? But there’s quite literally no precedent for that at all so yeah the second bullet point makes sense

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah the intent is that the pilot still needs to mount/dismount normally

[dapper goblet]

I’m visualizing a very large map with a formation bombard at each of the 4 corners

(Or at least one that had good “arcing pockets” for them to hide in)

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah that works

I ran formation double baked bombards on an escort, that was fun

[south cypress]

I think I can make it

[vagrant grotto]

Hella, that makes 3

Worst case I’ll run for 3 + an NPC buddy

[harsh widget]

How often do you run these Valk? I can't make it this Saturday but I'd love to join in the future. I've been slowly working PPG frames into my games recently so it'd be awesome to see how you use them.

[vagrant grotto]

Usually one every few weeks, depends on availability. My spring weekends are volatile in availability

[dapper goblet]

Ugh I’d like to but not sure if I can commit to it

[vagrant grotto]

Absolutely valid, i can put you on a waitlist worst case?

[dapper goblet]

It’s like total coinflip odds unfortunately

[vagrant grotto]

All good, if no one else joins and you’re available, you’re in

Worst case, I have my quorum

I’ll make a thread soonish

[dapper goblet]

We do love a quorum

[opaque crescent]

i can make it, jot me down for it but i'm fine with someone else taking my place

[vagrant grotto]

okay thread incoming

[light pawn]

Yo, you might wanna update the original forum message seeing as PPG isnt pwyw anymore

I went to update my LCP and was very confused on how I even had it in the first place lol

[vagrant grotto]

Good shout, I updated the post thoroughly now, thank you!

[light pawn]

No prob :)

[silent wedge]

I'd sign up for the playtest but I have my own sessions Saturday

[vagrant grotto]

all good, I have 4 players lined up

[tame wharf]

@vagrant grotto i wanted to pick your brain a bit on how your process looks for designing new NPCs

not if you have like step by step but like what thoughts you have

[vagrant grotto]

It varies between NPCs; usually I get an idea in my head of what gameplay I wanna see and what it would look like in the setting, then build around that concept

Torrent was “aggressive tidal wave / water elemental: the mech”

Zealot was “Fanatic who inspires allies and leads from the front”

Mesmerist was “Guild Wars 2 Mesmer / Illusion swordmage defender”

Sometimes I got a role combination in my head and thought about how those roles might coexist

Prism was “how do I make an Artillery/Defender” (the real answer turned out to be “Engineer”, and Prism instead went for Defender/Artillery)

[tame wharf]

📓 🖊️

okay okay

im currently tinkering with a NPC called 'Wanderer'

[vagrant grotto]

The biggest thing for me is that the base kit has to be digestible but complete on its own

[tame wharf]

which is 'hostile sunzi enemy'

[vagrant grotto]

Mirage is a 5 trait abomination and I never want to make one of those

[tame wharf]

Blinkspace Gateway
Quick Action, System
The Wanderer creates two Size 1 linked gateways in free spaces within Sensors and line of sight. Gateways are immune to all damage and cannot be targeted. Each Wanderer can only have two gateways on the battlefield at any given point. Using this system while the Wanderer has two gateways allows the Wanderer to replace them in new free spaces. Whenever another character moves adjacent to a gateway, they may teleport to any adjacent free space next to the other linked gateway as a free action. Each character can only be teleported this way 1/round.

this is the current core system of the Wanderer

[vagrant grotto]

Alright

[tame wharf]

gah, sorry, i should have probably dragged this to homebrew design since this isnt pgg related

[tame wharf]

do you have any other tips besides this that are obvious in hindsight once youve made an NPC or two?

[vagrant grotto]

Yes:

1. Study the core NPCs and how they’re written. Try to emulate that writing and it’ll sound more authoritative
2. A powerful way to keep yourself from getting too wordy is to constrain the entire NPC class and abilities to 1 page (excepting the vet/ultra stuff and “how to use this at the table” stuff I have). This keeps complexity low and the NPC approachable
3. Use keywords and formatting appropriately to highlight what a GM needs to see. If “duel” is important, bold it for emphasis when you refer to it

For NPCs themselves, I have several litmus tests:

1. I can run at least 2 on the battlefield simultaneously (this covers both complexity, balance, AND fairness to players)
2. It can handle the Elite template without swinging to useless or overpowered
3. It can handle the Ultra template without swinging to useless or overpowered
4. Its base kit is “complete”, i.e. it has no “mandatory optionals” that it needs to do its job

For stats, recognize what you’re building and what stats it requires to do its job (note: “passively standing around” is not a job. Hazards passively stand around. NPCs act)

The closer the thing wants to be to the frontline, the more defenses it should have to compensate

Most importantly: Build the thing that you want to field at the table

The stuff we write as GMs is first and foremost tools for ourselves

If you want to build a multi-use normal NPC that can be fielded in multiples, do that

If you want to build a special 1-off NPC you use once, build that instead

Be purposeful with what you’re making

[vagrant grotto]

I wanted PPG to be a pile of regular-use NPCs that could be fielded in multiples but also scale up to elites/ultras, so I designed around those goals