#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 27 of 1

ashen crown
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At least before running it it looks to me like if there was no other defender in the team comp it’d probably be one of the better objective holders present

vagrant grotto
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The point is that it can’t sit still

ashen crown
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Ah yeah fair

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Oh I just caught that Torrents are Controller/Striker hybrids- idk how I never caught that that really changes things for me

vagrant grotto
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yeah, if I had my choice they'd be labeled as straight-up Vanguards

south cypress
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Is there anything in particular that needs specific testing in the Boombox's kit? Putting together an OpFor for about 3 weeks from now that could fit one nicely

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Currently sitting on Bust a Move and Reverb Feedback as optionals, deploying alongside a Finishing Blow Brigand Squad to take advantage of the Prones

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Reverb Feedback to hopefully stop my Sunzi player from stunting on me with Final Secret

vagrant grotto
south cypress
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Oh nice

vagrant grotto
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I'm thinking I will have adjustments between now and 3 weeks from now, but we'll see

frank blade
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Since this is now paid content will there be comunity copies?

vagrant grotto
frank blade
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oh ok

hushed anchor
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I've had one demolisher so far.
He was a pirate commanding a boat and I gave him a boarding leash :3.
Exposed raleigh managed to facetank that guy which was impressive.

vagrant grotto
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I had a couple ideas for Howler to make it a bit more “sticky”, not gonna use all of them but just gonna present a few

  • Feral howl causes movement away from the Howler to require 1 additional space of movement per space
  • Getting hit by Ripper Claws causes the target to become immediately Engaged with the Howler
umbral sluice
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so it stops the movement but doesnt cause further debuffs that Prone or Immobilise would?

vagrant grotto
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Exactly

umbral sluice
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I like the idea

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makes it feel less mean than straight up immobilise but is still a notable thing

vagrant grotto
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I think Engaged is gonna win here

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And probably an attack bonus buff

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At least to keep up with the AGIMaxxers

muted blaze
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Become immobilised until the end of the current action crylaughing

vagrant grotto
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Absolutely not lol

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Engaged does this more succinctly hahaha

umbral sluice
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also "end of the current action" doesnt make it clear whether you can move after the immobilise is cleared or not

sudden cosmos
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Would the "become engaged" clause be confusing if they smacked someone at 2 threat?

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I get it personally, but I can feel myself reaching for the childproofing rules cabinet locks reading it.

vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
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im sure someone would read that as "pulled adjacent to the howler," knowing ttrpg players

sudden cosmos
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"but what happens if I'm a sunzi" intensifies

drifting parcel
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Time to make the party's support Vulture

vagrant grotto
drifting parcel
steel apex
vagrant grotto
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Agreed, frankly. This puppy has enough going on without tracking an extra effect on a player

vagrant grotto
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Thinking of running a playtest this weekend

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<t:1772910000:F> or <t:1772992800:F>

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LL3 this time

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Ping me here if interested, as usual

opaque crescent
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I could do either

granite saddle
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Already on Al's playtest, so not gonna be possible for me

vagrant grotto
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Aw piss

granite saddle
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Gl with recruitment anyways !

vagrant grotto
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I’m competing with Al videogames

opaque crescent
granite saddle
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If I was available on sundays I would do both this is true

umbral sluice
sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
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Favoring Sunday at the moment

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That’s 3 potentials

muted blaze
muted blaze
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Srsly tho I am unavailable

vagrant grotto
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Have an excellent playtest; may it bear delicious fruit

tame wharf
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@vagrant grotto I can do Sunday

vagrant grotto
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That’s 4 potentials for Sunday, I’ll wait for latecomers

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Since Cat is waitlist

muted blaze
tame wharf
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@vagrant grotto so a friend of mine (same person I ran the Boombox test for) cooked this build under the new structure/stress rules

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I have a build for my emperor that I think is really really helpful. Let me know if it isnt.
-- SSC Emperor @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
SSC Emperor 3, HORUS Manticore 2, HORUS Lich 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Kai Bioplating, The Lesson of the Open Door
[ TALENTS ]
Empath 3, Leader 3, Skirmisher 2, Stormbringer 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:2 AGI:0 SYS:4 ENGI:2
STRUCTURE:4 HP:8 ARMOR:0
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:3
TECH ATK:+5 LIMITED:+1
SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:12 SENSE:15 SAVE:16
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: Marathon Arc Bow
MAIN MOUNT: Unraveler
[ SYSTEMS ]
Āyah of the Syzygy, Shahnameh x4, Beckoner, Smite, Wandering Nightmare, Personalizations

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Otherwise known as 'brick this fucking mech'

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Name of the game is to heatgun someone to cap and then keep going, triggering the doubles energy damage from going over the heatcap

vagrant grotto
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Sure, sounds like a classic white room build

tame wharf
vagrant grotto
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There’s a lot of qualifiers there lol. I’d have to see it in practice

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I imagine it’s gonna need some heat support to get something overheated before it starts its turn

granite saddle
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Right, sear could get pretty nutty if set up correctly. Especially with how hot your NPCs tend to run

vagrant grotto
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If you managed to Sear me to death you’ve either done something right or I’ve done something horribly wrong

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Probably both

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Plus like, how many actions does it take to brick the mech this way compared to just shooting it

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You could shoot it for 6 damage after it overheats, without worrying about having 3 targets adjacent for sear for example

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I’m only seeing 10 heat on demand here, maybe I’m missing something

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  1. Open Door 2 Heat off Sovereign Presence
  2. Invade for 2 Heat
  3. Sear with 3 adjacent for 6 Heat

Missing the other 2

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Wandering Nightmare triggers off the opponent’s turn so that’s not on the aforementioned 1 quick action

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And NucCav and Hacker are notably absent from this build

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If you full teched for a second Sear then yeah that would provide an extra 8

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Anyway yeah have to see it in practice

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I’m already side eyeing sovereign presence here

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And whether it should proc off of heat damage, seeing as the point of these rules were to directly convert Heat into damage with no modifications

ashen crown
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I mean Sovereign Presence is already really liberal with its damage procs, and with that second sear mention you could easily just deal more damage by skirmishing with the Marathon Arc, which would also proc Sovereign Presence and not deal any self damage

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So I don’t see any reason to account for it specifically

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or Ayah, relatedly, but Ayah is a separate instance of damage

vagrant grotto
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Like this is definitely a magical Christmas land scenario

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Even with Summon

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Especially with Summon, actually

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If they’re cold, then the full tech has to hit twice and all saves must fail, and then the result is the NPC overheats

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If they’re hot, you’re in better shape

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If they’re overheated already, something has gone very wrong/right

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And if you’re using default OC rules alongside this, well, yeah guess they’re fucked (if you hit the second Sear)

ashen crown
drifting parcel
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Valk, I've got an insane sitrep in the works, I just need to flesh out the whole Roster
Rat Wars:
Ultra Commander Vulture
Their goons

A lot of wrecks on the battle field

The party has a Nergul class nhp from Legionaare so it's going to be a wild arms race between the player and the vulture for corpse resources

vagrant grotto
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Oh fuck haha nice

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Placing wrecks on the field ahead of time is a popular leg up for Vultures yeah, though these days I think they do just as well without pre-placed wrecks

drifting parcel
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They do, really nicely. I just thought it'd make for a terrifying boss arena

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Each turn it just snowballs unless they take control of the wrecks themselves or Ra forbid. Decide to deny assests by blowing them up

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@hasty kestrel you like my fucked up ideas

hasty kestrel
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bro…

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i’m adding this one to the collection i think

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that’s so heat

viscid ingot
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Drive-by Yoink.

vagrant grotto
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Upon activating this system or entering the scene, the Occultist deploys 2 of these drones adjacent to itself. While a character is adjacent to at least one drone, they gain soft cover if allied to the drone, or take 1 Heat after each action they take if hostile to it. Only 5 drones may be deployed at a time.

Rewording FLOCK Drones and the like to make it clearer whom "allyship" and "hostileship" relates to. How does this read?

viscid ingot
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"Upon activating this system or entering the scene, the Occultist deploys 2 FLOCK drones adjacent to itself. The Occultist and Allied characters adjacent to at least one drone gain Soft Cover, while hostile characters take 1 Heat for any action they take if they are adjacent to at least one drone. Only 5 FLOCK drones may be deployed at a time."

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How bout that?

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
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Ahhhhhh

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Ok, so if I am getting this correct.

Making it to the Drone's Allies and Hostiles means that the parent Occultist would also be receiving the allied bonus.

Is that correct?

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
vagrant grotto
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kinda but I wanted to make sure that the hostile characters only take heat once too crylaughing

viscid ingot
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ah ok. I didn't know that last part.

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Let me do a quick edit.

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Done

vagrant grotto
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... by "once" I meant "once, regardless of drones adjacent" not "1/round"

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lemme worry about the wording

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I just wanna know if it's parseable

viscid ingot
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ah ok I get it now

vagrant grotto
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Upon activating this system or entering the scene, the Occultist deploys 2 of these drones adjacent to itself. The drone’s allies gain soft cover while adjacent to it. Hostile characters adjacent to at least one drone take 1 Heat after taking any action. Only 5 drones may be deployed at a time.
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I think this is the winner

viscid ingot
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Naisu

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Simpler text for allied characters and a bit more clear explanation for hostiles

muted blaze
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I was gonna ask if you'd want a suggestion but that looks fine

vagrant grotto
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Alright, Prototype feedback is incorporated

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Howler now stops people upon smacking them, and its weapons are +2/4/6 +1 Acc in both cases

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hm wait that's not right

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ripper claws are 1/2/3 +1 acc, Bite is 2/4/6 + 1 acc

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there we go

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Rabid Lunge also allows for a Grapple instead of a Ram, or Skirmish, if that matters

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Feral Howl is still awaiting feedback on the Overshield, need Tier 1 (and Tier 3?) feedback on it

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Biggest ??? right now are

  • Should Vulture's Dandelion cannon get a range change
  • Should Kensei get an on-deploy defensive buff
  • Does Novel Technology hold up well on high-Prototype teams vs. a party with no Chomolungma/mass scanner
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Boombox needs revisions still

vagrant grotto
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Bass Drop (Replaces Soundboard)
System, Quick Tech
The Boombox plays music in a Burst 2 area, causing the following effects to characters in the area:
•    Hostile characters must make an AGILITY save or be knocked PRONE.
•    Allies may clear IMMOBILIZED and SLOWED, and stand up from PRONE.
The Boombox gains 1 Heat for each character affected by this action (not including allies who decline its benefits).

Jam Session (Replaces Reverb Feedback)
System, Recharge 6+, Free Action
When the Boombox uses BASS DROP, it may replace its effects with the following:
•    Hostile characters must make a SYSTEMS save. On a failure, until the end of their next turn, they are JAMMED while within Burst 2 of the Boombox.
•    Allies may clear one tech action effect.

Subwoofer (Veteran)
System, Deployable, Limited 1, Quick Action
Subwoofer (Size 1/2, HP 12/15/18, Evasion 5, E-Defense 8, Tags: Deployable)

Deploy a subwoofer to a free space in SENSORS. The subwoofer counts as one of the Boombox’s spaces for the purposes of BASS DROP and SOUNDPROOF, additionally creating a Burst 2 area around itself for each respective effect.
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thoughts/feelings/opinions?

ashen crown
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Bass Drop is now instantaneous instead of persistent, hmm. I think this is interesting.

vagrant grotto
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Yeah, I'm changing Sound Barrier to key off of Soundproof as a result

ashen crown
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I have the smallest of concerns that the allied efffect of bass drop steps on Rally the Righteous' toes a little but that's not a big deal

vagrant grotto
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Rally the Righteous

  1. Is in Burst 5
  2. Gives a "size bonus"
  3. grants 5 spaces of free movement
ashen crown
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Again, not a big deal

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Another very small concern- it does feel notable to me that Bass Drop does nothing for allies that are losing grapples.

vagrant grotto
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oh well?

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I guess this could be an opportunity for the "shift allies 1 space in a direction" effect I had at the inception of this NPC

ashen crown
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It does feel more concussive now at base rather than techy but them's the breaks

vagrant grotto
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How does Subwoofer read to you?

ashen crown
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I think it reads fine, though the "Additionally" section feels almost unnecessary considering the precedent NPCs like Prism already set in the same document

vagrant grotto
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Prism is later in the document

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and I had some space to spare, in comparison

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I think I like this new division

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it keeps the potential for Jammed and cool tech-effect clear, while putting the Support aspect of the frame front and center

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also, I like Bass Drop and Jam Session more as feature names

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next order of business before cutting a new release will be writing up Vanquish and maybe some examples of gestalt sitreps

viscid ingot
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I'm assuming you will be swapping out Boombox's Bass Drop and Jam Session names into actual optionals of their own?

vagrant grotto
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that's what they are, above

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Soundboard is replaced with Bass Drop and Reverb Feedback is replaced with Jam Session

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so Boombox's base features are Waveform Nexus, Bass Drop, and Soundproof

viscid ingot
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Ah, intorestingaru

vagrant grotto
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Jam Session becomes the new optional in place of Reverb

viscid ingot
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Its an optional that can change Bass Drop's effect.

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Clever

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Though question on Reverb Feedback. Specifically the Jammed Part.

These only affect Hostile Characters that have failed the save and only those that have are in the Burst 2.

So hostile characters outside of the radius cannot be affected if they walk in after Bass Drop + Jam Session happens. While those previously affected can walk out to end it early.

That Correct?

vagrant grotto
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correct

silent flicker
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This shit's cool

vagrant grotto
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thank you!

ashen crown
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.. wait

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that's not accurate at all

viscid ingot
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But. Does this also mean that until the end of that character's turn (Not Boombox), the Boombox can just follow them to reapply the Jam?

vagrant grotto
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I mean yes

viscid ingot
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That is hilarious.

vagrant grotto
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it would require them to do off-turn movement, at least

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which may be doable via Ferrous Lash et al

ashen crown
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THe circumstances in which that would be relevant would be niche, and the tracking would be more difficult, but it is funny

viscid ingot
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But RAW, that is possible. Which is still hilarious.

vagrant grotto
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goal is to encourage them to back away, at least

viscid ingot
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PC: "Leave me alone!"
Boombox: Follows them around with the music.
PC: "Aaarghhifmabe!"

vagrant grotto
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lol

viscid ingot
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Exactly

ashen crown
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If I can be honest, as potent as Jam Session is it almost feels more appropriate as a base trait?

viscid ingot
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How so?

ashen crown
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Even though undoubtedly it is really strong in comparison to Bass Drop

vagrant grotto
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Clearing a tech action on a base trait would be really fuckin nifty, tbf, but I'm hesitant on the jammed

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because, you know, players fucking hate jammed

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like, irrationally so

ashen crown
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It just feels like it acts as a stronger deterrent than Bass Drop while also having a clear conditon that more clearly ties into its gimmick

vagrant grotto
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i mean its gimmick is accuracy stacking, idk what you're thinking

ashen crown
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It is?

vagrant grotto
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It's a support

viscid ingot
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Boombox is a support

vagrant grotto
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like, a primary support

ashen crown
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I know but not all Supports Accuracy Stack

viscid ingot
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Its not generally a Controller but it can do that job too.

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Think of Boombox as a "Modern Day Priest"

vagrant grotto
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but seriously @ashen crown what did you think its gimmick was

ashen crown
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Well looking at it from the angle of "it's a support first" I redact my statement

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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got it

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I viewed Occultist as my foray into "area denial controller/support"

viscid ingot
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I saw the Boombox more like a Scout + Priest hybrid.

vagrant grotto
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so I wanted to flip the script for Boombox

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while also keeping it from becoming "Zealot take 2"

viscid ingot
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"Zealot 2, they finally done it!"

ashen crown
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If it's a support first, then Bass Drop being the base trait and Jam Session being the optionals makes a lot more sense

viscid ingot
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Also, nice Burst Weapon ya got.

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Don't got a lot of those.

ashen crown
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If you like those you'll love this supplement called Prototype Pattern Groups

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It's real niche

viscid ingot
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Valk always does some good and interesting work.

vagrant grotto
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I appreciate the compliment haha

viscid ingot
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Though players that have gamed with me in the past always fear the Napalm for some reason.

vagrant grotto
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it's just a silly little guy, with a little fire trebuchet

ashen crown
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I wanna find an excuse to use the Napalm so bad but every time I come up with a reason to do so I think "But I haven't used X 1st party NPC in a while" and I tell myself "shit I'm right"

viscid ingot
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Its just a nice guy who's making sure you feel warm and toasty.

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:]

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But yeah, once I'm done with my 0.2.0, I should probably also make a document for my lads. (They still have no document and only an LCP)

vagrant grotto
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Quell
Negotiations have broken down. Subdue the opposing force before they harm anyone else.

Quell models situations when the PCs attempt to outright subdue an opposing force through a combination of violence and demoralization. It can be used in place of a standard combat, or “deathmatch.”

Objective
The PCs score 1 point each time an NPC in the opposing force receives structure damage or is destroyed. Grunts only provide 1 point for every 4 Grunts destroyed. Conversely, the PCs lose 1 point each time they receive structure damage. The total points of structure of the opposing force scales with the sitrep’s duration, as usual.

Victory Conditions 

    • Total Victory: Gain points greater than or equal to half the total structure in the entire opposing force (both initial deployment and Reinforcements), or destroy the entire opposing force. Any remaining NPCs Retreat, their morale broken.
    • Partial Victory: Retreat while having at least 1 point per PC.
    • Defeat: Retreat while having fewer than 1 point per PC.


Modifications

Vanquish
Remove the scoring rules. One of the enemy NPCs has the Ultra template. The PCs are victorious once this NPC is defeated. This is always a Short objective; a supplemental objective may be required in order to lower a special defense of this NPC, or defeating this opponent may lead to another objective (such as Transport for capturing the target, or Fortify to secure the target).

Purge
Remove the scoring rules. Mark a number of NPCs in the initial deployment with total structure equal to the PC count. Change the victory conditions to the following:

    • Total Victory: Destroy or subdue all marked NPCs.
    • Partial Victory: Retreat after destroying or subduing at least one of the marked NPCs.
    • Defeat: Retreat without destroying any of the marked NPCs.

Looking for thoughts on Quell, my “Deathmatch sitrep” that incorporates a kind of Morale

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I want it to have more texture than simply “kill em” though I freely accept that damage dealers will be favored in this scenario (like how fast mechs are favored in Transport)

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I wanna make it clear not be accepting bad faith feedback on Deathmatch as a concept; please meet me at the assumption that Deathmatch-likes are “Good, Sometimes”

granite saddle
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I think you could move the "or kill everyone" in the victory conditions to a partial victory too.
If the point is to subdue and break morale, achieving that at too high a cost enters pyrrhic victory territory, and at tbat point what you've achieved is more "inflict significant losses on them" than "break their spirit/momentum"

south cypress
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It seems fine to me, though losing only one point per PC structure taken feels like it might incentivise recklessness if a PC sees a way to, for example, dive an enemy formation to pick off a key enemy or two while taking structure damage in retaliation

vagrant grotto
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Numbers are negotiable

muted blaze
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This honestly feels like to me an outright win/loss works somewhat, partial victory makes sense as the consequences being "how many resources were actually expended from the PCs"

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Otherwise this looks like a neat way to be able to call a fight with a set limit rather than just going "uuuuuuh do I use more enemies or just end the combat???"

vagrant grotto
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They blunt the insurrection, maybe redirect it, but fail to outright disperse it

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Anyway I wanna highlight the Vanquish variant as a kind of “boss battle” but also something that can segue into another objective. Think Train Heist or securing the Borehulk corpse in Demon of Dogwater Gulch

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Or an objective can be part of destroying the target, like how Dustgrave does it

ashen crown
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Haven’t read yet but I really like the concept of turning morale into a Sitrep Objective and therefore making Deathmatch be more than just Deathmatch

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As a note- currently taking Stress damage doesn’t seem to be a way to gain or lose points in the base version of the Sitrep. Is that intentional?

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Boss battle now I realise is interesting because of how it combines with multi objective sitreps

ashen crown
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Just making sure 👍

muted blaze
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"kill the ultra then move it's corpse to the extract"

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Wait that's kinda sick

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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I was imagining it skipped past removing structure and just destroyed the enemy, causing only 1 point to be retrieved

vagrant grotto
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Nope

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That’s not the intent at least

ashen crown
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Could be an FAQ thing

muted blaze
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Command has identified a hostile experimental artillery piece. If left unattended they're gonna get field data for days. It's being deployed for weapons testing and if successful it's gonna wreck havoc on any battles. We want you inserted into back lines then it taken down so they can't use it. Then we want to recover the wreckage to see if we can reverse engineer it

2 star blood money job, stage 1 infiltration, stage 2 kill an ultra bombard

Partial victory, your army doesn't suffer
Full victory your army doesn't suffer AND you get a sick exotic/reserve

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Damn I'm so good at this

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I should like... Be a game master

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Or smthn

vagrant grotto
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This is precisely the shit I wanna see with modular sitreps

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Combination style

ashen crown
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A cool idea to combine sitreps is to use Quell as the way for PCs to win points, but instead of losing points via taking damage they lose points via Fortify and the enemy seizing/damaging their encampment or smthn

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Which is basically just Fortify but damage forward instead of control forward

vagrant grotto
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Sure that could work

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The key takeaway I want people to get from my modular sitreps is “objectives can actually be really fucking flexible”

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“If you don’t let them over-determine your scenario, at least”

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There are times where I think I should put enemy forces first in the sitrep prep, though

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Rather than “desired GM duration”

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But it works out either way, one determines the other

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Like “this is what you’re up against, and thus you’re in for a short/medium/long haul”

muted blaze
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Extraction + kill everyone

Partial victory: objective extracted
Total victory: majority of enemies defeated and objective extracted.

Objective: eliminate witnesses before theft

ashen crown
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As a question- for a standard Triangulate, how do you recommend finding a good place to place the hidden objective?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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Furthermore, if I wanted to use the Decoy variant of the sitrep, how do you recommend modifying the rules to accommodate for, say, a PC with 20 sensors easily able to cover the all the objectives with one search?

vagrant grotto
opaque crescent
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uhhh, dependent on how techy the enemy faction is in narrative you could maybe justify them having set up some kinda of faraday cages such that scans can't permeate them either direction?

muted blaze
opaque crescent
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Legitimately I don’t have a good answer for the 20 Sensors searchers

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Besides “require line of sight” but that undermines my changes to Area Search

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I guess I could say “pick a range band to search for objects”

ashen crown
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I think a home change I’d make is simply remove the “determine which objectives are correct/incorrect” element and simply have the decoys act as “valid areas to search”

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Narrowing the search area to points you can see rather than “the whole map”

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Maybe add “you know the direction the objectives pinged are” to the search information given too

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Effectively making the same as the base version but having visual indicators on the map for the decoys + true objective that don’t actually interact with the sitrep rules at all

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Only in the “20 sensors” case at least

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For a team with even 15 sensors at their highest this kinda setup would probably be too mean

vagrant grotto
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So the search, in this case, requires line of sight

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But you immediately know where each potential thing is on the map

ashen crown
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I think that works yeah!

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I might experiment with my take on things where the dummies are simply map indicators while the sitrep functions as normal (maybe giving a directional ping too), but yours seems cleaner and appears to work fairly for teams without 20 sensor mechs

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Does my swallowtail player have ATMS? Yes but if he’s flying like 10 spaces into the air to ping the correct objective at that point I’m just gonna let him have it. Particularly as he makes himself a very shootable target

muted blaze
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Scans above range X struggle to get through walls and require LOS

serene tangle
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For the Ultra Zealot trait Undying Faith, is it intended that the cheat death effect includes non-grunt allies at 1hp and structure already? Am I correct in assuming the intent is to basically to force the players to kill the zealot first?

vagrant grotto
serene tangle
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ok cool, thank you!

granite saddle
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Or move the ennemies out of the zone

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Or turn off Zeal

vagrant grotto
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@serene tangle what water said

serene tangle
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Yeah, makes sense, thanks!

#

I just wanted to make sure it was intended to create conditionally unkillable mechs

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah that was the goal! Wanted the Ultra trait to have some teeth

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
#

Zealot is famously the only Size ½ in PPG

granite saddle
#

Also true

muted blaze
#

You can grapple a zealot

#

It's free

#

It came with your everest

south cypress
#

Does an Operator Formation get 4 Self-Erasures?

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

Mayyyyyyybe Prism, if at all

flat urchin
#

size 1/2 artillery is such a funny concept :P

#

I wonder if there are other ways to make it work besides bending line of sight rules

vagrant grotto
#

Flight, probably

flat urchin
#

mmm yeah that was the other idea I had in mind

vagrant grotto
#

Thinking about Jetpack elites from halo 2

muted blaze
#

Vulture maybe

vagrant grotto
#

Nah

flat urchin
#

I'm a sucker for complexity so I opted for "guy dual wielding energy rifle and a portal gun" for the Gatekeeper :P

muted blaze
#

Like I could see it

vagrant grotto
#

Vulture is another support though

#

We have enough short stack supports

muted blaze
#

Unironically I think I can see the boombox as a size half or a size 2 and not a size 1

#

Howler crylaughing

vagrant grotto
#

Did I fuck up

muted blaze
#

Yeah but I could see it as size half

#

That's what I meant

#

Like a size 2 boombox feels right, a size 1 feels weong

#

But a size half would also feel right

#

Idk

#

Vibes innit

flat urchin
#

y'know weirdly enough
if you run rebake NPCs there aren't any size 1 supports anymore
besides scout technically but it has such size 1/2 energy

muted blaze
#

Size half is weird because some mechs are size 1/2 - 1 like assassin and witch

vagrant grotto
#

Hm. Boombox is similar in size and range band to Brütal Legends’ Roadies

That’s where the similarities end, though

#

https://brutallegend.fandom.com/wiki/Roadie

Brutal Legend Wiki
Roadie

The Roadie is an Ironheade melee infantry unit that specializes in destroying buildings. Melee infantry, building destroyer. They are stealth specialists who are hidden from enemies unless in...

muted blaze
#

Ok I see

#

Like I see them as a massive sound rig or a small DJ with a back mounted boombox

vagrant grotto
#

That too

#

Both are valid

muted blaze
#

Size half torrent

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Custom veteran ultra torrent with split the sea and size 3, and it can split it's size up how it wants however every time it splits it goes down 1 size

vagrant grotto
#

Power Chord is this guy dropping a sick riff on your ass

muted blaze
#

You have to chew through their health and somehow the entire time they're just boogying on ya

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

An ultra torrent with 8 copies of itself across the map but they're all size half

#

Individual bugs

ashen crown
ashen crown
ashen crown
flat urchin
flat urchin
ashen crown
flat urchin
#

ok lol

#

my original question was about whether you could make a size 1/2 artillery work without bending LoS in a weird way like prism and gatekeeper (my take on the idea) do

ashen crown
#

Arcing or Seeking weapons prolly

#

Tbh Rainmaker could be size 1/2

#

You could make Bombard size 1/2 and it would change very little

vagrant grotto
#

Do not normalize Arcing and Seeking

ashen crown
#

Operator?

vagrant grotto
#

Operator probably yeah

#

Guy in a power suit and a souped up gun

#

Playing fuckin Crysis

ashen crown
#

Honestly you could make the “no size 1/2 artillery” argument about PC mechs too

flat urchin
#

nanocomp unironically makes me want to use your seeking house rules lmaaoo

vagrant grotto
#

And Sniper

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
# vagrant grotto And Sniper

Sniper I don’t think could work as a size 1/2, it needs it little sniper next wall to peek over so it can attack without being fully exposed

flat urchin
#

although maria's note about raising edef as a soft counter to seeking kinda paid off in some of my playtests

ashen crown
#

Operator meanwhile wants to be out in the open when it attacks and behind a titanium wall when it ends its turn- being big doesn’t influence that game plan

flat urchin
#

that's true, operator definitely sounds like a viable size 1/2

ashen crown
#

A small artillery cannot have ordnance because in order to see enemies it would have to expose itself to be able to do its job, something very few artillery actually wants to do

vagrant grotto
#

Moving Nanocomp into LL3 on a license that otherwise wants nothing to do with Artillery is honestly probably enough for most lancer campaigns; increasing the SP to 3 like Maria does is likely also a good deterrent

ashen crown
#

Strider is 50% Ordnance and even if it can get around it I do not thing it has sufficient mobility tools to get away with it, so I personally think it wouldn’t work too well as Artillery

vagrant grotto
#

How did we get here again with size artillery

ashen crown
ashen crown
#

Then Prism came up as a valid candidate for a potential “size 1/2 or 1” NPC and then it was pondering “no size 1/2 artillery NPCs are in core, how could you make one without weird LoS shenanigans?”

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah let’s bring it back to PPG

vagrant grotto
#

But yeah

ashen crown
#

Making it 3 SP makes it comparable to deep well- there we go that’s the analogy I was trying to think of

#

For a “really strong LL2 system that has a high SP cost”

vagrant grotto
#

didn't have a real great idea on how to portray the battlefield lol

#

so I added some "X"s for implying deathspots

#

Gearing up for the Combined Objectives section:

COMBINING OBJECTIVES
Combine enemy forces into a single pool
Short + Short = Medium, Short + Medium = Long
EXAMPLE COMBINED OBJECTIVES

CAPTURE
Quell (Vanquish) and Transport

HUNT
Quell (Vanquish) and Fortify

RALLY
Fortify (Survive) and Seize

RETRIEVE
Triangulate and Transport

FLIP
Blitz and Fortify (each Blitz objective becomes a Forti-fy objective and begins scoring).

RANSACK
Blitz (Ruin) and Transport (Collection).

MELTDOWN
Seize (Gauntlet) and Transport (Escape) with a hard cutoff three rounds after the Gauntlet ends (the Gaunt-let objective melts down and explodes).
vagrant grotto
#

just demonstrating that I'm not making setpieces, I'm making Lego pieces

tame wharf
vagrant grotto
#

I think Legendary becomes superfluous

#

given that it exists to keep Ultras/Veterans from just fuckin biting it, I'd say this is fine

tame wharf
#

gotcha gotcha

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

that's gonna be even less informative

ashen crown
#

Fair

vagrant grotto
#

It makes sense on Holdout and Gauntlet

#

but "deathmatch" is anything

granite saddle
# vagrant grotto

So you didn't go with "destroy everyone" in Partial Victory in the end ?
Interested in knowing why if there's any particular reason

ashen crown
#

Well like… the full success was “destroy enough people” and partial success was “destroy everyone”. I feel like there are very few scenarios you could partially succeed instead of full succeeding

#

And the point of partial success is “you settle for this to save resources”

#

But the old partial success involves losing basically as many resources as possible, which seems somewhat contradictory

muted blaze
#

Here's my vanquish sitrep and my purge sitrep. The vanquish has you killing this ultra bombard

The purge sitrep afterwards has all 4 marks on this ultra bombard

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Fair

vagrant grotto
#

I cannot account for every layout

#

I’m mostly highlighting the key necessities/assumptions in each one

#

For Quell, it’s

  1. There’s a player deployment zone
  2. There’s an enemy deployment zone
  3. The enemy deployment zone may double as an ingress zone

And that’s it

#

For Seize, the implication is that in addition to those 3, there’s also
4. Initial enemy deployment is somewhat in the center of the map
5. There are some sort of objectives floating around the map

final violet
#

Is anyone here willing and available to listen to me yap about a module I'm making that is heavily enhanced by Prototype Pattern Groups content? I don't want to have too much about paid content public, and I'm not good at keeping things to only me.

void wave
#

@vagrant grotto got some more play feedback. Holdout modifier for Fortify is pretty easy for a well coordinated team, as they're able to set the objective up to basically just be bunkered

#

base Fortify should be harder in practice

vagrant grotto
void wave
ashen crown
void wave
#

on Torrent, the weapons have the Melee class, however RAW Melee weapons can't exactly attack outside threat, so RAW the cone weapons don't work

void wave
#

was really great teamwork tbf

#

but it felt a bit easy player side

void wave
ashen crown
#

Afaik Valk’s objectives were designed to “be on the easier side” to be able to run faster, & great teamwork + tactical play should be able to demolish any sitrep imo. What did you set the point requirement for, and how many players did you have?

ashen crown
void wave
muted blaze
#

Triangulate into triangulate into triangulate

ashen crown
void wave
#

they thoroughly liked Triangulate

ashen crown
void wave
#

they liked the process of elimination when it comes to different characters running Scan as far as I can tell

#

er, Search

#

I haven't had caffeine yet today

#

brain isn't firing on all cylinders

void wave
vagrant grotto
void wave
#

it was really fun to see

void wave
#

will keep in mind for next time

void wave
vagrant grotto
#

Happy to hear this then haha

Noted on Holdout, it makes sense it’s easier due to being 1 spot to hold

ashen crown
void wave
#

yeah, just make sure your players have drawing tools enabled for them if you're on Foundry

ashen crown
#

I hope I do I never though to enable that

vagrant grotto
#

The intent is “treat it like a dang ranged weapon”

#

Besides the cover and engagement of course

ashen crown
#

Now that I’m thinking on it, why would they even have that restriction?

vagrant grotto
#

The answer is “tom assumed that all melees have threat instead of Range”

#

Which is grossly unhelpful for me, someone who just wants an AOE melee weapon that you can’t overwatch with from 5 spaces away

#

At this point I’m gonna just make a FAQ entry because I think the intent is relatively clear

void wave
opaque crescent
#

being able to parry the greywash flood is quite funny

vagrant grotto
#

Are there any other AOE melee weapons in existence

opaque crescent
#

no

#

the closest you get is from Dustgrave iirc

void wave
#

iirc Prototype Weapon

vagrant grotto
#

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

opaque crescent
#

Brutus has a threat 2 melee weapon that attacks all targets in range

void wave
#

but that works since it's burst 1 and you have threat 1 on it

vagrant grotto
opaque crescent
#

at least I think it's threat 2

#

idr fully, it's been years since I looked at DG

void wave
#

honestly I'd just give those two weapons a special clause in their effect

#

or like make them actually CQB but have the clause "This weapon is treated as a Melee weapon for systems talents etc"

vagrant grotto
#

I’d have to say “this weapon ignores cover and engagement”

void wave
#

yea

vagrant grotto
#

But that doesn’t help Sweeping Blows on Knight

void wave
#

mmm

vagrant grotto
#

I’m gonna make a FAQ entry and declare “specific beats general”

void wave
#

"Instead of attacking up to Threat, this weapon can attack up to its range/cone/etc"?

muted blaze
#

Valk, you can keep it as is and no one will notice crylaughing

opaque crescent
tame wharf
ashen crown
#

Honestly this is an esoteric bit of rules that almost no one knows about that I feel you could just leave it as an FAQ thing

vagrant grotto
#

Thank you for bringing this detail to my attention

void wave
#

I'm particular when it comes to details, np

sudden cosmos
void wave
#

that ignores Impaired and other things

sudden cosmos
#

Oh true

ashen crown
#

Let’s be real how many tables are gonna look at Sweeping Blows and think “oh but the great sword is threat 2, I guess the designer intended to have the cone cut off at range 2 despite making a cone 3 footprint?”

The amount will be nonzero, sure, but the number is so low where that’s what the FAQ is for

void wave
#

also I had a really funny cataphract but it got bullied out of existence by a TCB

muted blaze
#

I tried seeing the wording on ranged attacks

Ranged attacks need to be Vs someone in range... However if it has an aoe and they're within the aoe template they're within range

void wave
#

it was fun watching a Fabi TCB smack it tho

muted blaze
#

However range doesn't matter on an aoe

void wave
#

so it scooted around at speed 10

#

ridiculously funny

muted blaze
#

I need to double check the wording on memetic weapons

#

Because memetic weapons make attacks that don't target allies... Otherwise they're not ranged and not melee. They sometimes have only threat and sometimes have only range and sometimes have only aoe

void wave
#

I need to run Prototype more

muted blaze
#

Yes

void wave
#

it's a cool template

muted blaze
#

You should run more auntie augmented minigun hornets

void wave
#

I think I would be executed for that

muted blaze
#

Ive not been executed yet

vagrant grotto
#

You’ve got it backwards, it’ll execute them instead crylaughing

But yeah I understand

opaque crescent
muted blaze
opaque crescent
#

so true

muted blaze
#

Anyway you should give a hornet a demo hammer

void wave
#

I'm definitely gonna run a mission where you have to steal experimental data and you're facing a buncha Prototypes

muted blaze
#

If they can't kill it in time that's on them for not having enough smart or reliable

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

But like, canopy has like... A threat 1 memetic

void wave
#

horrid idea actually

#

a Mirage doppelgangered with an Operator

muted blaze
#

Actually putting memetic on a common enemy sounds like a horrible idea, because like... "You see, your talent doesn't trigger because that wasn't a melee or a ranged attack... It was actually a memetic

void wave
muted blaze
#

Anomaly ass weapon that is just the assaults rifle but it's a tech attack instead

#

Tech attack
+1/2/3 to hit
Threat 1
Kinetic damage
Reliable X

vagrant grotto
#

Explicitly

muted blaze
#

Ok cool I'm just illiterate twice, mb

ashen crown
muted blaze
#

It means the threat 1 no range memetic weapons do nothing crylaughing

vagrant grotto
void wave
#

I might run Aid as an action in all my games going forward because that feels very good

vagrant grotto
#

Hell yeah, very glad Acatalepsy turned me on to that action

muted blaze
#

Aid is very fun

#

I did a prepared aid the last combat I was in

#

I love sacrificing my actions to make the new player CPR user use their cool gun more

void wave
#

aid actually goes really hard for a spotter and artillery duo I think

ashen crown
muted blaze
#

Like

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

That is also true

muted blaze
#

I gave it a thought, aid felt very OP to me at first having a build able to help shoot a siege cannon every turn. Then I take a step back and think like... You're collaborating and making a build to help someone else fire and it probably isn't as effective as just having 2 siege cannons

vagrant grotto
#

I basically invoked the Lancer Third Party License and reproduced the rule like many reproduce the Exotic gear rules

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Sprinting across the map to aid the CPR user when there's someone who desperately needs killing is fun

void wave
#

also Doomscroll is a really funny ability

#

has fun narrative potential too

#

I was tempted to use it and just say "You watch as text flickers across your displays... It reads one simple message, have you ever played googoogaagaa babies with your umamusme on the line?" to inflict psychic damage on the players themselves

muted blaze
#

I've used doomscroll once and it was on a Harrison mech and I cried

void wave
#

oh no

#

also I totally need to just build a Cyberzombie and yeet it at a PC group

ashen crown
muted blaze
#

Your propaganda is too meaningless compared to my propaganda

ashen crown
#

What do y’all think would be the funniest use case of a Prototype Sourced Pause Engine?

vagrant grotto
#

GENERAL FAQ
AREA OF EFFECT MELEE WEAPONS
Some melee weapons list an area of effect, but no listed THREAT. Can they still attack beyond the default THREAT of 1?

Yes, the intent is that all melee weapons in this supplement with an area of effect (e.g., Torrent’s WAVEBREAKER) may attack all targets in that area, regardless of THREAT; their listed areas are more specific than the general rule of THREAT being the “maximum range at which a melee weapon can be used” (Lancer, p. 64). They use the default THREAT of 1 for the purposes of OVERWATCH, as normal.

#

I'm gonna name-drop the "Thrown" tag as an example of "more specific"

vagrant grotto
# 
COMBINING OBJECTIVES
As mentioned, modular sitreps may be combined into a single, multi-stage sitrep. Budget both total Duration and Enemy Forces for the combined sitrep as follows:

•    Short + Short: Budget as Medium.
•    Short + Medium: Budget as Long.

By default, follow initial Deployment for the first of the two composing sitreps (if reasonable); augment deployment to fit the fictional scenario. The composing sitreps’ objectives are each treated as if they were their original, respective durations for the purposes of scoring and determining victory.

The combined sitrep may require one sitrep to be completed before the other, or the two may overlap in some way. Flexible design is encouraged in order to best fit the fiction. The following examples illustrate just how adaptable these objectives can be.

how's this read?

vagrant grotto
#

I have a dozen example combo sitreps now

ashen crown
#

I think this makes sense, though I do question if simultaneously sitreps should be budgeted the same as consecutive sitreps

vagrant grotto
#

they should

#

it's extra complication

ashen crown
#

Fair enough

vagrant grotto
#

it's like adding a side objective, except recognizing that the side objective is taxing

ashen crown
#

I’ve actually got a (potential) Triangulate + Purge Vanquish (simultaneous) coming up so that’ll be fun!

vagrant grotto
# 
AMBUSH
SEIZE + QUELL
Take several defensive positions (SEIZE objectives), then QUELL an incoming, unsuspecting opposing force.

CAPTURE
QUELL (VANQUISH) + TRANSPORT
First, defeat the ULTRA. Next, drag their wreckage, pilot, or black box to an EZ.

ENDURE
SEIZE (GAUNTLET) + FORTIFY (SURVIVE)
Take control of a SEIZE objective, then SURVIVE the retaliating enemy forces for 3 rounds.

EVACUATE
TRIANGULATE (DECOY) + TRANSPORT (COLLECT)
Find the real DECOY objectives (e.g., vehicles with ci-vilians inside). As soon as a real objective is identified, it may be dragged to a nearby EZ.

HUNT
QUELL (VANQUISH) + FORTIFY (HOLDOUT)
The PCs and an opposing force hunt an ULTRA MONSTROSITY (Lancer, pp. 324–325). Once the Ultra is slain, the PCs must secure the corpse from hostiles.

MELTDOWN
SEIZE (GAUNTLET) + TRANSPORT (ESCAPE)
Sabotage a GAUNTLET objective. Then, extract from an EZ before it explodes in 3 rounds.
 
PILLAGE
BLITZ (RUIN) + TRANSPORT (CTF & COLLECT)
Score or destroy several BLITZ objectives, then pick up the heavy loot and carry it to a nearby EZ. Only one piece of loot may be carried at a time.

RALLY
FORTIFY (SURVIVE) + SEIZE
Survive an opposing onslaught for 3 rounds, at which point allied forces arrive and take control of the flanking IZs. With the tides turned, secure forward positions for those allies, as indicated by SEIZE objectives.

RETRIEVE
TRIANGULATE + TRANSPORT
Discover the TRIANGULATE objective’s location, then drag it to the EZ.

THIEVE
QUELL (PURGE) + BLITZ (FETCH)
Eliminate several high-value targets, INTERACTING to pick up their valuables along the way before abscond-ing with the treasure in an EZ.

USURP
BLITZ + FORTIFY
After each BLITZ objective is scored, it becomes a FORTIFY objective that accrues 1 point per round while controlled by the PCs, as normal.

WITHDRAW
FORTIFY (SURVIVE) + TRANSPORT (ESCAPE)
Hold a defensive position for 3 rounds until an allied dropship arrives, then extract on that dropship.
void wave
#

I love Capture

#

I'll run that at some point

vagrant grotto
#

with all the other base objectives + modifications, that's 34 sitreps in this book

#

and they all came from 6 basic objectives

void wave
#

modular sitreps honestly feel great

#

like

#

I'm looking at them and I'm going "how the fuck does base Lancer not have these"

#

they're stellar and promote more player thought and creativity

vagrant grotto
#

thank you! I'm looking forward to running more of these haha

void wave
#

it also gives the players a small dopamine kick as they've completed a stated objective in the middle of the sitrep

vagrant grotto
#

In other news: I'm pulling the trigger on "Torrent Prones with no save on any collision"

#

if I get negative feedback on that, I'll just revert it

ashen crown
#

Should I do the ill advised and make a triple Sitrep combat?

vagrant grotto
void wave
# void wave I love Capture

terrible idea for Capture actually

you have to kill the Ultra but a good chunk of the NPCs are Doppelgangers, and some even have multiple activations

ashen crown
#

(Retrieve Sitrep combo with a Vanquish going on as a side objective in the background)

ashen crown
void wave
ashen crown
#

Wait, better idea

#

Make the assault a formation

#

And the Ultra a Doppelgänger copying the formation

void wave
#

I'm not sure that'd work

#

how do you imagine that working?

#

because I'm having an evil idea

ashen crown
#

A formation with 5 members :)

void wave
#

oh I was thinking something worse

#

far worse

ashen crown
#

What? 2 formations? 4?

void wave
#

||The Ultra obeys Formation rules for having 4 tokens, and follows resource and action restrictions of a Formation, however every time the Ultra is structured, the last damaged token is destroyed.||

ashen crown
#

I was more just imagining the Capture idea but the Ultra is a Doppelgänger copying one of the 3 identical formations on the field

void wave
#

oh that's horrible

#

and if they haven't figured out which one the Ultra is, I'll say "The Ultra takes its second activation and immediately passes its turn."

ashen crown
#

You could even make them all Anomalies so they don’t even know they’re formations, they just see 13 assaults

#

Or, have there be 1 formation, and then 4 other doppelgängers copying the formation to mimic a second formation

void wave
#

that's awful lmao

#

I love it

ashen crown
#

Formation is hilarious I love it

void wave
#

"fuck you, you're playing whack a mole now"

#

the only problem is the Ultra would activate out of sync with the Formation and be easy to spot

ashen crown
#

That’s why you have 1 Formation, 3 Doppelgangers with SpecOps, and an Ultra

#

The formation should also have SpecOps too, for extra confusion

void wave
#

how would the turn orders work?

ashen crown
#

If I knew how then the idea isn’t confusing enough

#

But like:

1st formation activation: Normal

2nd Formation activation: still normal

3rd formation activation: Spec Ops I see

4th formation activation: wait wtf?

5th formation activation: wtffffff?????

And so on

But there’s so many you lose track of who is and is not in the same formation

vagrant grotto
#

Going hard on the provisional test changes:

JURY-RIGGED
Trait

Hostile characters gain +1 Difficulty to checks and saves against the Brigand. Once a hostile character SCANS the Brigand or an identical character (i.e., an NPC from the same faction with the same class, templates, and features), all hostile characters instead gain +1 Accuracy to checks and saves against it.
ashen crown
#

If you’re gonna test this change I’d change the name personally , as Jury Rigged doesn’t fit the flavor imo

#

(Aka, scan to learn the Brigand’s tricks and therefore gain the upper hand)

vagrant grotto
#

"Knowledge Check" crylaughing

#

for the FGC audience lol

ashen crown
#

Expect the Unexpected maybe?

vagrant grotto
#

I'll worry about names

ashen crown
#

Fair

vagrant grotto
#

you worry about the effect

tame wharf
#

steal more MTG names

vagrant grotto
#

"Flimsy Tricks"

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Update to 1.19!

itch.io
Update to 1.19!

NPC Classes Boombox Shuffled some abilities around, renaming some abilities in the process. This is a breaking change, so please delete existing Boomboxes from your CompCon. Soundboard Replaced with B...

vagrant grotto
#

I'll probably add the updates to sitreps on my blog tomorrow

#

but yeah, shit's real

viscid ingot
#

Alriiiight, I've read through your sitreps. They are short sitreps you can mix and mash together to form actual larger sitreps in comparison to CRB and Enhanced Combat.

#

This is actually a really neat way to build sitreps.

vagrant grotto
#

Thank you! Really once I started going into combinations it became very clear to me that a modular approach is actually incredibly powerful

viscid ingot
#

It's a pretty neat and novel way to handle Sitrep building.

ashen crown
#

Honestly, if there was a Lancer 2E I’d hope those sitreps take inspiration from this. This is way more versatile + more explicitly ties into the games mechanics

viscid ingot
#

I may start working with these modular sitreps and stripping some of the CRB and Enhanced ones to make them modular friendly as well.

vagrant grotto
#

tbf I think I covered most all the CRB ones

#

that's why I explicitly named the modifications after them, so the parallels were clear

#

but yeah, idk exactly how EC did their sitreps, I just know they're a bit more involved than usual

viscid ingot
#

Some EC Sitreps are involved in that they nearly take the entire 6 Rounds to complete on a bad run.

But they can be completed in less than that if players work together to leverage their advantages.

There are Optional Objectives that the GM can place to give Players a thing they can do at the same time while completing the main objective.

A bit different but may be a similar vein to your multi-module sitreps.

Whereas EC has One Main Objective and One Side Objective (if the GM is feeling it)

PPG has a two part Objective system for the Sitreps.

vagrant grotto
#

yeah I don't really believe in Side Objectives per se, tbh

viscid ingot
#

The Side Objectives mostly REALLY shine in Campaign Runs.

vagrant grotto
#

usually because existing objectives are involved enough, and the side objective only serves to complicate things further

viscid ingot
#

Even the EC has notes saying that Side Objectives are more so to add rewards to your players in a campaign.

viscid ingot
ashen crown
# viscid ingot Some EC Sitreps are involved in that they nearly take the entire 6 Rounds to com...

IMO some of the EC Sitreps, at a glance, feel like they have overlap with some of Valk’s steep variants, while others (aka Breach and Clear) feel like they have somewhat artificial round inflation (and of course the ones that don’t fall into either category like Train Heist). I’d say there aren’t many EC Sitreps that can’t be emulated with these Sitreps (demolition, any of the item collections, nexus defense, behemoth brawl, etc). Train Heist and Breach n’ Clear feel the most distinct

#

EC leans a lot more into the Module side Lancer construction of combats, where they’re all somewhat premeditated by the GM and are meant to all be long + rough

#

Few of the EC sitreps sit on the shorter side - which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but it’s certainly less versatile

#

It’s really just a different design philosophy at the end of the day, going for a path of proposing more combat scenarios with unique mechanics rather than providing the tools to generate your own across more generalized mechanics

vagrant grotto
#

yeah, I ultimately feel EC is leaning into that "Bespoke situation" vibe and I just don't find that useful enough as encounter building tools

#

so yeah I wrote my stuff for flexibility

muted blaze
#

Queeeeestion

#

With combined objectives. Is the design intent for latter objectives to be public information or private until prior objectives completed?

muted blaze
#

I can see two methods of secrecy in my mind

  • Objective secrecy: whether locations/objectives are known prior
  • Sitrep secrecy: whether sitrep itself is known beforehand

And with these:

  • Public objective, public sitrep: all combined sitreps and their relevant objectives are known beforehand
  • public objective hidden sitrep: objectives are on the map, are not explained until prior sitrep is complete
  • hidden objective public sitrep: combine sitreps are known prior, but location of objectives aren't known prior
  • hidden combined sitreps: information of combined sitreps are totally hidden
#

csgo_demolition: seize (gauntlet) -> escort (extraction/escape)
Defeat: enemies remain at full strength
Victory: enemy asset thwarted
P victory: as above + remaining PC mechs take structure relative to distance from objective

#

Mmm, modular sitreps are fun to brainstorm

#

I think I need to start using this stuff. I'm getting too bored using the basic ass sitreps and enemies in my talent rework playtests crylaughing

visual nest
#

For Bottom of the Well is it supposed to be something that basically forces a Shutdown -> Boot Up on failure, especially at T3, or am I missing something?

Also, Thunder Lancer full action is an on hit effect in the LCP.

muted blaze
#

It doesn't force a shutdown boot up

#

They can still stabilise or activate systems. But shutdown boot up does work

#

And grease monkey 2 stabilise will clear it all

#

Oh it's until end of scene

visual nest
#

It doesn't force one but that's the quickest way to remove 3/4/5 conditions that might make you basically soft stunned

muted blaze
#

Yeah shutdown boot up is the wise choice

#

There's other ways

#

Impaired until end of scene is horrible because it's enough of an inconvenience that you want it removed but a full action to remove is very costly

#

Just having my T1 anomaly be a little dick and keep impairing people

vagrant grotto
#

Given that I highlight Stakes as something the GM should establish immediately, I lean towards open info here

muted blaze
#

I think there's a realm where unknown objectives are cool but that tracks

#

It usually makes more sense to head into a combat with an objective with a briefing

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

I desperately yearn for a control combat where objectives are escort objectives

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

But Valk, I love breaking things over my knee

vagrant grotto
#

Alright go off then

muted blaze
#

I await doing the 3 short objective combined sitrep

#

I'll do that at some point

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Using handle rules on an iceout also works

visual nest
#

So it should be more used as some sort of gear check than just on its own?

muted blaze
#

I had a designer intent question but then I reread it and it kinda answered my question

#

I was gonna ask about reinforcements but I assume the default is initial deployments then merged reinforcements

vagrant grotto
#

Worst case, Shut Down + Boot Up would do the trick

#

Aid action can also help split the action cost, if you’re using that rule

muted blaze
#

I thought aid assisted shut down

#

When you said that

vagrant grotto
#

It doesn’t

muted blaze
#

Yeah I checked

vagrant grotto
#

Action cost of stabilize *

visual nest
vagrant grotto
#

Yeah

#

The big one to clear is Jammed

muted blaze
#

Immob too

vagrant grotto
#

That one is priority 2

muted blaze
#

Ya

#

But with aid you're going to stabilise at least twice to clear 2 of the 3 conditions at t1. Whereas shutdown will clear all. So aid without GM2 won't do much

vagrant grotto
#

I’ll consider a lingering Save at end of turn to clear 1 condition each time

visual nest
#

My issue is that, especially at tier 3, it feels like you are saying to a player "You can't play."

Sure, you can Shut Down into Boot up, but that's 1 quick and a full. So 2 turns if you don't overcharge (with default overcharge rules).
Or one of your teammate have to have something to help you with it.

vagrant grotto
#

I’m more concerned about it at T1, where players are less likely to have options, tbf

#

“Teammate helping” is desirable gameplay

#

But yeah no I feel you

#

Gonna note it in the tracker

#

In the meantime if you (or anyone) do try it lemme know how it goes

visual nest
#

Yeah, I'm very interested in the modular sitreps!

vagrant grotto
#

I hope they prove useful to you! Ultimately my goal with modular sitreps was to demonstrate that it’s actually really easy to throw something together, and that you can be fast and loose with the rules when making something on the fly

#

Once the GM knows either

  • how many enemies they’re committing
  • how long they want the fight to take

Everything else falls out from there

#

Thinking about how my house rules have reached a point where I can’t really expect myself to write Lancer adventures anymore lol, because that would mean playtesting Vanilla NPCs, vanilla sitreps, and vanilla structure and overcharge, lol

#

The sitreps I could define in the adventure, true, but everything else…

#

I think that’s why my next “adventure” project is gonna be a campaign framework that lets me use my toys lol

sudden cosmos
#

It looks like I'll be able to get data on the howler and boombox changes tomorrow

#

Ultra howler o'clock, now with more accuracy for those crits sicko

final violet
flat urchin
#

they're not going to be rebake by default iirc, they're just going to have rebake versions released alongside the crb versions

#

oh the message was deleted - this was in reference to igf

sudden cosmos
#

Going back to vanilla structure/stress in particular just feels... Bleh.

muted blaze
#

This is why I used Maria's for my playtests lol

final violet
#

You can make the CRB versions of the combats second class, like how in my module the version with an Ultra Mirage with Titan-Snare Drones is second-class to the version with an Ultra Occultist with Titan-Snare Drones.

ashen crown
#

It actually just occurred to me: Torrent and Demolisher would make a very entertaining duo because they’re two ends of extremes when it comes to knockback and using it for objectives

sudden cosmos
#

"Sorry. You rolled a 1 on your second structure roll. Get annihilated. Entire combat has entered scuffsville"

muted blaze
#

I can't wait until I run using 1 stress for all again

#

FML it's so much nicer

final violet
muted blaze
#

Yeah but the PPG ones aren't

#

And also, running a pre written adventure shouldn't really require much outside of the book you're reading and the CRB

final violet
#

Valk let Redox use modular sitreps for her book.

sudden cosmos
muted blaze
#

?

final violet
#

#1470221024178995319 has a Fortify (Holdout) in the final combat of one of the missions.

flat urchin
#

tbh I probably should run some playtests with vanilla rules to make sure nothing is horribly broken

sudden cosmos
#

Module tests have to be run as close to vanilla as possible to recreate the average GM/Player experience, which is "Look at this neat thing I found on itch. What's a pnet?"

#

Like the number of Lancer players I've met at my LGS that don't even know there are first party modules is, uh, all of them.

final violet
#

The neat thing about books is that they can inform people of things.

sudden cosmos
#

You have to design in the vacuum, which is a shame becuase the vacuum is a bit rough

vagrant grotto
#

Sitreps are easy to define in a module and are generally flexible

NPCs, not so much

And yeah if I’m writing an adventure, I do ultimately want to make it accessible to folks

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
final violet
#

Sorry.

sudden cosmos
final violet
#

Right.

vagrant grotto
#

Anyway yeah this isn’t my first rodeo

#

Neither is it Isa’s

sudden cosmos
#

You've rodeo'd a bit more than I though

vagrant grotto
#

We’ve been through the considerations of what we’re comfortable including and what we’re not. There’s a lot of factors that go into it

vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
#

I will say that I'm probably done with campaign modules unless a jam compels me or I get a one/two-shot idea

#

Setting guides with inbuilt mechanics are probably better suited for my tastes

final violet
#

If you want to keep PPG at 15, modules are the ideal place to put new NPCs.

vagrant grotto
#

I will worry about my own business decisions, thank you

final violet
#

Fair enough.

muted blaze
#

"this combat features big Steve. He's an elite demolisher with these optionals. He becomes a veteran at 5 players. Otherwise the rest of the sitrep uses this faction, encourage using X"

vagrant grotto
#

In like, that order

sudden cosmos
#

I'm curious about a proper node crawl. Would it be more of a framework to build on to dodge vanilla issues, or would you be looking to have it be a full-on campaign?

final violet
#

This is kind of what I'm doing with my module, to the extent I'm working on it; it uses a wargame-style structure with battalions of four factions of the Karrakin military advancing down a point crawl at an Armory base, such that each combat consists of the forces of the battalions at that node.

#

(Relating to Al's message).

vagrant grotto
#

Think FTL (the rogue like video game)

muted blaze
#

Hmm. I could play ftl

vagrant grotto
#

You’re moving across the galaxy to a hot zone and solving problems along the way

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

I’m planning to blog about it first before publishing it in a nice shiny pdf

ashen crown
#

Which is also the context modules are being tested for

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah no everyone runs their home games differently and I expect the folks who know their vibe will remix anything I make to make it their own

#

In that regard, playtesting is more about “how do I make this accessible to most of my audience”

ashen crown
#

Most everyone does it, even the people who made the modules, it’s just unfortunately not a thing that’s conducive to playtesting

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah exactly

#

So I don’t playtest for that lol

#

If anything I playtest for myself: If I don’t have time or patience to remix something, I want it to Just Work out of the gate

#

My biggest goal is to respect my audience’s time

#

I don’t want GMs reading my adventures to have to overhaul something or force them to connect the dots themselves in order to run my stuff

sudden cosmos
#

Sometimes being told to draw the rest of the owl makes people excited. Other times it makes them go "I don't have time for this," yeah

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah no, if I’m gonna tell folks to “fill in the blanks” I’m gonna provide them with ample scaffolding first

ashen crown
#

That’s kinda what the sitreps act as, innit?

vagrant grotto
#

If I’m selling a publication, I’ve got to offer something that folks won’t just think of on their own

#

And yes

hushed anchor
#

Decided to buy this
Really cool stuff

ashen crown
#

Honestly the new sitreps made PPG jump from “a really fun supplement” to probably my favorite 3rd party work

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

hmmm gonna add this next version I think:

Quell (Pankration) - Modification where players can play up the crowd and score extra points for style (via Interact)
vagrant grotto
hushed anchor
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

it's gonna be about making callouts and following up

# 
PANKRATION
This modification emulates gladiatorial, entertainment combat. Each character (PC or NPC) may INTERACT 1/turn to play up the crowd. They make a contested skill check against a hostile character as part of this INTERACT action; if they succeed, the target is marked for humiliation until the end of the round.

If a marked character in the opposing force suffers structure damage, the PCs score an additional point. If a marked PC suffers structure damage, the PCs lose an additional point. In either case, the mark clears after the first instance of structure damage.
muted blaze
#

Based

#

Pedantic hat on, is there any point in doing it as a quick and not as a protocol?

#

Also

#

Me and my bestie (Veteran assassin)

vagrant grotto
#

dunno, I can modify it though

muted blaze
#

Just wanted to point it out. Idk if it's a problem

vagrant grotto
#

"the loser is marked for humiliation until the end of the round" there, you can protocol but it's higher risk

#

idk, I may make it an outright quick action only

muted blaze
#

Just cos, if I had it as a protocol I'd pop it every round crylaughing

#

Mama didn't raise no bitch

#

My impaired ass trying to start a dance off with a vet assassin with +2 ACC to agility

vagrant grotto
# 
This modification emulates gladiatorial, entertainment combat. Each character (PC or NPC) may play up the crowd 1/turn as a quick action. They make a contested skill check against a hostile character in SENSORS as part of this action; if they succeed, the target is marked for humiliation until the end of the round.

there, okay, no punishment for trying to call them out, but it's always a quick action and not an Interact

vagrant grotto
#

I'm now calling these rapid releases of blogposts "Blog Blasts" and you cannot stop me

sudden cosmos
#

Looks like the stuff up tomorrow is:

Boombox:

  • Spotlight
  • Power Chord

Howler:

  • A Beast Uncaged
  • Rip and Tear
  • Viral Bite
  • Lunar Splendor
  • Bloodhunt
  • Longclaw
muted blaze
#

BLOG BLAST, BLOG BLAST, BLOG BLAST

drifting parcel
#

Howler for today's Sitrep

Throneless_Howler.png
drifting parcel
#

His Demolisher room-mate

Throneless_Demolisher.png
vagrant grotto
#

Rock and a Hard Place ready for trouble solomag

silent flicker
#

Huh, Quell Mission Briefing is missing for my pdf

#

Wait, i see the update

vagrant grotto
#

I was gonna say, lol

sudden cosmos
#

@vagrant grotto would A Beast Uncaged clear burn? I'm thinking no but just making sure

vagrant grotto
#

Hmmmmm. Fuck

#

I’d say RAI no but RAW yes

#

Gotta actually word that better

sudden cosmos
#

how would you like it to be

vagrant grotto
#

Don’t clear burn

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
#

…

#

Scratch that

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
#

Let it ride, clear burn

sudden cosmos
#

understood

vagrant grotto
#

We’ll see how it fares

sudden cosmos
#

it passed its burn check but MAYBE

drifting parcel
#

So not much feedback from the 1st howler as it got 1 turned by a brutual crit mornging cloak

#

I have another tomorrow

vagrant grotto
#

absolute classic scenario lol

#

did it get any Overshield before it died?

drifting parcel
#

Sadly not

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

happy for them, they earned their scooby snack

viscid ingot
#

Oof a Brutal Crit. That's rarer than Custom Paint Job proccing.

sudden cosmos
#

ultra veteran howler playtest complete

#

my players have thoughts

#

remarks incoming (in a couple hours)

vagrant grotto
#

Ominous lol

drifting parcel
sudden cosmos
#

placing in the proper channel

vagrant grotto
# sudden cosmos

Uhhh, I’d probably have it stay at Heat Cap but otherwise have Exposed and Overheated clear

#

This ultra trait is looking iffy though lol. Lots of edge cases

sudden cosmos
#

okay, because this pervert did not stabilize and also my players have thoughts about it

#

forthcoming (after this sts2 run (i'm at Glory))

vagrant grotto
#

It should probably have some incentive to stabilize still, that or outright clear heat on structure loss

ashen crown
#

I mean it’d still be overheated so it can’t use Heat at all, so I don’t really see the benefits of it never stabilizing considering it kinda. Depends on its Heat abilities

sudden cosmos
#

Well, it was an ultra veteran howler

#

so it had plenty of things to do.

ashen crown
#

It’d also still be taking energy damage from Heat

sudden cosmos
#

It... was unconcerned

vagrant grotto
#

The intent of clearing exposed here would also be clearing overheated

sudden cosmos
#

"oh no six ap energy damage"

vagrant grotto
#

I’m gonna wait and hear out the full feedback

sudden cosmos
#

"anyways I have 23 hp and am still in danger zone"

vagrant grotto
#

Sounds like this was a loaded ultra

sudden cosmos
#

"time to viral bite all the things"

vagrant grotto
#

Ultimately it’s sounding like the Ultra trait may need outright replaced unless I want Isa’s players knocking down my door

viscid ingot
#

Seeing this talk about the jacked Ultra is giving me a wary eyeball for how I'm going to build Ultra+ in the future.

sudden cosmos
#

Juiced Howler Playtest:

Players (all LL1)

  • DSAS Vanguard Chomolungma
  • Heatgunner Chomolungma
  • Riflespam Everest
  • Heavy Gunner Forced Movement Everest

Opfor:

  • Ultra Veteran Howler (Longclaw, Lunar Splendor, Bloodhunt, Viral Bite + A Beast Uncaged, Supreme Melee, Siege Shield + Rip and Tear)
  • Elite Boombox (Spotlight, Sound Barrier, Power Chord)
  • Commander Support [K] (Latch Drone, Empowered Cloud, Bolster Network)
  • Formation Custom Archer [K] (Replace Suppress/Moving Target with Kai Bioplating, Covering Fire+Got Your Back)

House Rules:

  • low-variance structure
  • one stress for all
  • no core powers
  • reroll OC

Sitrep:

  • Quell (Vanquish), players lost due to TPK
#

Quell/Vanquish Feedback:

  • "So it's a TDM with points?"
  • They had no further thoughts

Formation Archer

  • They liked it. I liked it. No further comments.

Elite Boombox

  • Battle buddy for the ultra. The two hung out a lot. Heatgunned PCs into exposed range, and they rarely had time to stabilize
  • General uncertanty about waveform nexus. not threatening damage-wise but thought lock-on felt "too free." I don't necessarially agree. They were also confused about how this weapon interacts with overwatch. I just didn't have it overwatch.
  • Soundboard was weird to work with, but I eventually figured out how to use it. Not especially useful on multi-activation NPC apart from getting more time to stabilize heat off. How does the heat gain interact with overheated?
  • Soundproof+Sound Barrier is remarkably relevant at low LLs. Lots of explosive damage floating around at the bottom of T1.
  • Spotlight was liked but players expressed it felt low-impact. Inclined to agree. Maybe it could be Blast 2?
  • Why is Power Chord a melee weapon? Had a lot of "interesting" interactions regarding LOS and cover (or lack thereof because it's melee). Players said it should be a nexus with the ignore engagement clause. Inclined to agree, but want to hear why it's melee first. Players really like microstun.
#

Ultra Veteran Howler

  • Everyone agreed it was way too tanky and too capable of shrugging off basically everything without extremely careful timing and planning because of A Beast Uncaged and getting 5/7/9 OS with each howl. Players still stepped on each others' feet canceling effects they were relying on to damage/control the howler.
  • Very easily able to gapclose on ranged attackers and force engagement. Claw OW stopping movement means having to FA disengage to get away, and it could just catch up again.
  • Feral Howl made it way too durable with its ability to create a mosh pit and tank tf up. Consider reducing OS and/or adding per-tier scaling.
  • Innate accuracy on weapons synergized with deadly for a lot of crits
  • Ripper Claws with Rip and Tear were winners. Loved the attack. Wished they weren't exposed all the time.
  • Viral Bite also was appreciated. They liked the dynamic it brough to combat.
  • Bloodhunt was considered too low-impact at low LLs. "I see the vision, but it should just be a passive. Not a protocol."
  • Lunar Splendor similarly was low-impact. Party thinks it should just be a static effect with no OS clause, both to make it like the lycan and to reduce mental overhead.
  • Liked Longclaw. Makes me think a reason why it was able to apply pressure to the party and get so much OS off howl was because it could easily drag a PC along with it.
  • I liked A Beast Uncaged because I'm a freak, but it was very hard to manage at low LL with their limited kits without extreme coordination.
#

tl;dr-

boombox: conceptually interesting, but a bit clunky
howler: "it protects its allies by making sure everyone is dead more than it acts as a lure tank, and it's good at being a tank too"

vagrant grotto
#

Surprised the boombox was heatgunning of all things

#

Were you just off-action invading or have I missed something crucial haha

sudden cosmos
#

it was all 1.19

sudden cosmos
#

and because it's LL1, they don't have a ton of engineering

vagrant grotto
#

Okay cool, noted noted

sudden cosmos
#

the boombox was also grappling people and bringing them to the howler

vagrant grotto
#

As for why Power Chord is a melee weapon, I was giving on it being a guitar attack I guess

sudden cosmos
#

they said it should have cover, like you're hiding behind a wall to deaden the noise

#

I said "okay well I wanna hear valk's reasoning first"

vagrant grotto
#

It makes sense, I figured the sound would be able to get around cover in-fiction but I get the vibe

#

Heat gain on Bass Drop should mean that it can’t use Bass Drop if overheated

#

Very noted on the T1 tankiness on Howler, and the interaction between Howl’s heat and how the ultra trait clears exposed

#

May make it way too easy for the ultra to abuse howl

sudden cosmos
#

On the one hand, it doesn't cost heat to use it

#

but on the other, it feels like it should stop working if it overheats

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah I’d treat it like the Type 1 flight system in that regard

#

If doing something while overheated would mean you take heat at some point, you can’t do it

sudden cosmos
#

I figured it'd keep ticking over and dealing energy damage per trigger, but couldn't be used again

#

didn't come up though. it was just something I was thinking about afterwards

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
#

Well, im glad to hear that it was both durable and sticky

#

Will need to reevaluate some of its numbers though

#

Very happy to hear that the Formation Archers “just worked”

mental burrow
#

anyway wanted to ask: has anyone had a ROKO NHP go into cascade with the Prototype template?

#

if so how did you RP it?

muted blaze
#

I haven't, but like. Over protective or harm anyone who doesn't attack the Roko

vagrant grotto
#

@sudden cosmos now that I've slept on your feedback, I have some follow-up questions:

#
  • What did you think of Rabid Lunge? How did you use it (Ram, grapple, or Skirmish?), and how often did you use it?
  • You mentioned that the innate accuracy on the melee weapons synergized with Ultra's deadly. How did that feel?
  • For the Formation, how did it feel to manage the standard movement of the 4 bodies?
sudden cosmos
#

I acknowledge this ping but will answer it when the playtest starts

#

busy with a s0

muted blaze
#

Scheduled another playtest in 2 weeks from now, I think my content is at a comfortable enough state that I can confidently start using various house rules. Will be using PPG Sitreps and NPCs for the playtest 🫡

south cypress
#

Tomorrow I pit my Calendula player against his character's ex wife in a Prototype Veteran Ghost with Feign Death and Auntie. I anticipate the Ghost will still get its ass kicked, but hopefully it will be interesting

tame wharf
#

whats the module that has the cards at the top of the screen?

vagrant grotto
#

Or something like that

sudden cosmos
#

Re: my ultra boombox from today (Valk heard) about it already

His callsign was "DJ DISPLACED" and he was just a regular guy from DeKalb Illinois circa 2026 that partied hard, blacked out, and woke up inside a mech at Dustgrave Crater Pit Bloodsports. He did not know how to turn off his comms and was yelling the whole time

#

The assault he featured had his comms stuck open after getting promoted and the two yelled at each other the entire time

#

Apparently it beat out the Festive Solstice Conifer extraction

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

Formations continue to Feel Good on artillery, I used a double baked bombard formation today and it seemed absolutely sensible

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
#

Yeah no I figured you’d stick with something stable instead lol

muted blaze
#

But SITREPS

#

I CAN ABUSE SITREPS >:)

muted blaze
#

@vagrant grotto heyo, getting too keen with playtest in checks notes 2 weeks. Would you want data to see if a triple short combined sitrep would work or would you rather stuff be tested as written before tinkered with

vagrant grotto
#

by structure I mean: Do you do them sequentially, or in parallel (or if mixed, in what combination)

muted blaze
#

I also want to see what would happen if I test a ||Kensei with allied movement powers. Commander lead the charge Kensei with a desant hard points support >:)||

vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

or will you not get the reference im about to make

ashen crown
#

Btw, is Quell by definition a Short sitrep, or no?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Perfect

vagrant grotto
#

Quell can be short/medium/long, it's just that the main source of scaling is just the same shared Enemy Forces for all modular objectives

muted blaze
#

All aiming to be short in length

vagrant grotto
# 
STAKES
The stakes of PC victory and defeat should be made clear at the start of any combat, and players should be given the opportunity to decline a combat if they deem the stakes unacceptable. The exact terms of victory and defeat do not always need to be conveyed, but the GM should be generous with this information so players can make an informed choice before entering combat.

So regarding Partial Victory concerns: I currently have this written under STAKES in v1.19

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I think it covers the concerns of players getting stuck in a bad situation

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in other news: reviewed save targets and realized I gave Napalm 13/15/17 save target scaling???

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13 save target T1 is unheard of

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Save for Spite

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I think I'm gonna tone it down to 12/14/16 at most, Napalm's ST doesn't need to be that high when it's a primary artillery

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Another aggressive scaling is Knight with 12/15/18, but that is partly so the compelled duel keeps its teeth

ashen crown
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To be fair, as a Systems save and a save that triggers at the start of every turn while also giving the Greatsword and Shield benefits without depending on the save, if the Knight picks the right target they’re going to fail at least once and even if they don’t they’ll still suffer from the duel

vagrant grotto
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it should probably be 12/14/16

ashen crown
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A target that succeeds on all duel saves is probably still gonna suffer tbh

vagrant grotto
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not a lot of systems investment from folks, and yeah it's not 100% dependent on saves to do anything meaningful like Seeder does

ashen crown
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Plus the consequences of failing a save are pretty bad

vagrant grotto
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Unclear why Barricade has a 12/15/18 ST in Core and Kai's rebake though, but whatever lol

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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the optionals and any potential Templates are really the only explanations yeah

ashen crown
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Since the base Kit has no saves the save target can scale aggressively to assist purely the optionals without being too unabalnced

vagrant grotto
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like I don't think Barricade needs to change I'm just noting the dearth of save effects in its base kit compared to other NPCs with similar scaling

ashen crown
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The big drawback about Duel is that the Knight can’t change targets, but the benefit is unless the target Shuts Down or is PEBCAC’d, it will never clear

vagrant grotto
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sure

ashen crown
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… huh, that’s actually interesting. Unlike Assassin’s Mark, there are ways for the target of Compelled Duel to clear it

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Simply by being a tech action rather than a normal action- funky

vagrant grotto
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yeah, though it's really only PEBCAC

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Shut Down is 3 actions to counteract 1 action

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it's worse than CRB Scout Marker Rifle

ashen crown
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Only if it’s the only tech you’re suffering from

vagrant grotto
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sure, if you're facing multiple tech effects that all last longer than the end of your next turn

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Shut Down is just incredibly niche, that's all

ashen crown
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And it’s still a way to clear it, unlike Assassin’s Mark

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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the concept of using Shut Down to stop the Duel

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like, in terms of "this is the ratio of actions to use to actions to clear"

ashen crown
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Gotcha

vagrant grotto
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scout marker rifle is 1 action to use, 2 actions to clear (stabilize) which is already obscenely good

so Compelled Duel 1 action to use, 3 actions to clear (Shut Down + Boot Up) is beyond the pale

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if Stabilize let you clear a tech effect (say, a "Hacked" condition") then we'd be in a different ballpark

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that said, still 1-to-2 use-to-clear action ratio in that case

ashen crown
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Yeah Compelled Duel is effectively permanent unless you’re in specific circumstances

sudden cosmos
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Support was a bit too much for the Ultra howler vis a vis sustain, so now I'm thinking about Ultra Howler+Ghost thonkspin

tame wharf
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Ultra Howler + Elite Ghost

hushed anchor
sudden cosmos
drifting parcel
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Tbh I have no idea how ghost works

sudden cosmos
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Ghost is intangible when schlorped onto someone, so it inherently lacks LOS to tangible things (like the NPC it's schlorped on)

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So every ability that requires LOS doesn't work

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Which is basically every commander skill

drifting parcel
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I meant in general

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Like I know know how or when to deploy one

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
# drifting parcel Like I know know how or when to deploy one

Use it for buddies you don’t want caught out and dumpstered

Phase shift lets the bonded target instantly break free of grapples and traps like Webjaw Snare, and lets them move through walls and obstructions

Paradox State applies an action tax to affect the bonded target

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And Ghastly Vigor Bolster helps it avoid its one weakness, tech actions

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Ghost wants to schlorp up your actions so you can’t effectively kill its bonded target

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anyway, Commander Ghost should work

sudden cosmos
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I was thinking like "that's only stuff that targets" for some reason

vagrant grotto
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Realizing reCaste dealt like, 26 AP damage vs a Howler in a single barrage lol

Roland Chamber be rollin'

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The hand cannons and Roland rolled 5, 6, 6, so yeah. The bolt thrower rolled 9 total on 3d6

vagrant grotto
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Honestly going through the NPC roster, there are very few normal NPCs that could withstand that barrage

Even accounting for Resistances, it would've killed:

  • Bastion [K]
  • Demolisher [K]
  • Goliath [K]
  • Sentinel [K]
  • Anchor
  • Howler even up to 6 overshield (obviously)

Only things that might survive a 100-0 would be:

  • Knight, if dueling with Templar's Shield up
  • Mesmerist, if it won enough coinflips
  • Prism, if attacked through the projector (with 1 HP left crylaughing )
  • Maaaaaybe a Torrent, depending on Soft Cover (thanks to only having Vanguard 1)
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And as soon as LL3 is reached, there's opportunity for the Stort to grab the integrated Aux for an extra tap, which would finish off most of those, lol

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I think this was just a case of "loading weapons in a barrage is pretty nasty huh"

drifting parcel
vagrant grotto
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And as I go through the optionals that depend on the Howler's Overshield, I'm concerned about gutting the OS too much and leaving those optionals toothless

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the durability concerns on the Ultra Howler may ultimately stem from A Beast Uncaged doing so much to clear Exposed and the like, when it should've been stabilizing more to clear heat

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But there's also the issue of "This was a Core Power enabled striker, doing striker things" mowing down 2 out of the 3 howlers

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the other Howler at least tied up 2 player turns worth of actions, even with high-roll GMS heavy melee doing work

sudden cosmos
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And the overshield seemed fine at T2. Really all I think it needs is scaling on the per-player half to make it a bit less brutal at T1

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Even with Uncaged, it spent most of the fight exposed and still only took about 80ish damage that wasn't mitigated by OS

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That said, even without the 10 or so OS that would be the difference between 3+2/pc or 3+1/pc, they'd still have been a country mile from killing it because they loved using explosive damage on it when the boombox was standing right there

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If it was an ultra, they would have killed. The ultra vet would have had one structure left.

drifting parcel
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I wish I got to use my howler

drifting parcel
sudden cosmos
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It was playing the role of Regret from wallflower. It is supposed to cause pain.

umbral sluice
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you could say it's meant to make the players REGRET coming here

drifting parcel
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You know what, fair

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Bloodhunt
System, 2 Heat (Self), Protocol
Until the start of the Howler’s next turn, it ignores INVISIBLE and HIDDEN on hostile characters in its SENSORS (ignoring line of sight) that are in the DANGER ZONE or under half their maximum HP. Additionally, those characters gain LOCK ON.

@sudden cosmos pinging for thoughts, because I kinda think Bloodhunt should do a little bit more

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and I think that the Danger Zone/Bloodied stipulation keeps this limited enough to warrant a Protocol

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I want Bloodhunt to do more because any old Veteran or Ultra can take (Lesser) Sight

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in exchange, I bump the heat up to 2

opaque crescent
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Is there no range limitation on this?

vagrant grotto
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Sensors (which is 10)

opaque crescent
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Does the lockon happen instantaneously on protocol use or whenever something enters its sensors?

vagrant grotto
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should be instantaneous

hushed anchor
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Hmmm
Sounds pretty funny with a rainmaker

vagrant grotto
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I can reorder the effects