#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 25 of 1

vagrant grotto
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Realizing that Disinteger probably ran Knight at the lower HP values too hm

vagrant grotto
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Boombox-pattern mechs emerged in the wake of the music ban on Jörmungandr-3. By curtailing free expression, every performance became an act of war. There is a certain humor in the fact that the mechs that overthrew that government were once turntables.
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Boombox mechs thrive in the fray: They trip up foes with their SOUNDBOARDS and leave them reeling with LOCK ON from WAVEFORM NEXUS. Outside of their limited range, Boombox mechs have only SOUNDPROOF to protect them. Judicial use of KNOCKBACK and involuntary movement effectively silences a Boombox.
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Found a good name for Capacitor + Specter Combo:

STATIC SHIV
- CAPACITOR
- SPECTER
The Capacitor’s OVERSHIELDS protect the Specter from RELIABLE damage, and POWER SURGE enhances their MONOWIRE SWORD with AP.
minor crest
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Hey Valk I ran a Vet Elite Brigand Kensei earlier this week but I don't think I used any of the stuff that needed testing. Did you still want me to drop some post-game stuff or just pass?

vagrant grotto
minor crest
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I'm not home yet but I'll get to it later

vagrant grotto
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all good, no rush

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The NPCs that don't have suggestions yet will purposefully have placeholder values, trying for in-universe placeholders that don't detract from the experience too much

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clocking in at a hefty 55 pages

ashen crown
minor crest
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Ran a Veteran Elite Brigand Kensei earlier this week for 4 players at LL3. I also used Kai's Core + Wallflower Rebakes for NPCs and templates (notably Veteran). Player and OpFor compositional details are as follows:

Sitrep: Beacon Recon (Enhanced Combat, double budget encounter) + Detour bonus objective (move a payload to two checkpoints on the map)

Initial Deployment:

  • 1x Veteran Elite Brigand Kensei (DIsarming Retaliation, Lockout, Boarding Leash, Pommel Launcher)
  • 1x Elite Mirage (Manifest False Idols, Metafold Shove)
  • 1x Veteran Strider (Weathering, Ranger Training, Climber (Sniper))

Reinforcements:

  • 2x Assassin (Explosive Knives)
  • 2x Hornet (Slingshot)
  • 1x Engineer (Perimeter Defense)

Player Info (LL3). Note that they are fresh off of a Full Repair:

  • HA Saladin: Straight defender Saladin. 1/3/0/1 HASE. Equipped with a Paracausal Mod Shatterhead. ENCLAVE and Flash Anchor as well as Bonded 3 and House Guard 3.
  • SSC Viceroy: Standard CQB Striker with both Vanguard and Stormbringer at 3 . 3/2/0/0 HASE. Equipped with an OpCal Pinaka as well as Sharangas. Mostly GMS systems + Javelin Rockets. (Note that this player rolls like shit lmao).
  • HORUS Spectre (Iphigenia at Midnight): 1/1/2/1 HASE. Not sure if you're familiar with the Spectre but it's a Defender/Controller whose main focus is on forcibly redirecting attacks to itself and/or preventing attacks from hitting its allies in general to gain various bonuses. Talent-wise it had Sysop 2, Exemplar 2 and Spotter 2. Also had Lesson of the Open Door.
  • IPS-N Caliban: Juggernaut 3/Pankrati 3 Ram-focused Striker. 0/5/0/0 HASE. Mostly GMS systems + RMJ. Also has Reinforced Frame.

Outcome: The combat ended in a Failure for the players.

This was the map we used. The blue zones labeled "Spec." were the checkpoints the players has to move the payload through to complete the bonus objective.

image.png
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Additional Context:

This was the first combat back following an ~8-ish month hiatus from the campaign, so a lot of the combat was them getting back into the swing of things. We had completed a 1.5-ish year long Wallflower campaign in late 2024, and after a brief break we jumped back into Lancer with the release of SotW, so my players are fairly used to how Lancer works. That being said, there were some fumbles in how they played (strategically) that I think contributed to their loss. Mainly that they got jammed in-between the two pieces of H3 cover near the top-right corner of the PDZ as they tried to stubbornly deliver the payload. It wasn't until Round 4 did they decide to leave the payload and move to try and win the encounter, choosing the bottom left corner's Obj as the Control Zone.

Thoughts on the Kensei:

This thing is awesome. My gameplan was pretty simple: use the invisibility granted by the Mirage to let the Kensei scrap without much threat and just bodyblock the payload and Objs, which all worked perfectly. Even without the invisibility I think the Kensei really shines in situations where players have no choice but to get close, like what happened with my group in that hallway. Being able to loop the Charged profile of the Saber is really satisfying, especially if the Kensei is able to Overcharge like this one. Overcharge especially helps it regain it's rotation incase something goes awry and it has to use or is setting up for Mach Parry. Speaking of which, I only got to use it once but it was a nice alternative use of the Sheathe. Disarming Retaliation was pretty effective, removing the Viceroy's Pinaka. I will say in regards to Disarming Retaliation that being able to move its full speed towards the target feels a little strong, though I suppose that's the tradeoff for having it still proc things like Overwatch. But still, it seems like the kind of ability that would only allow up to half their speed instead. Understandable if you're not interested in that suggestion. The Pommel Launcher unfortunately wasn't used. Overall I think the Kensei is a pretty satisfying NPC to use that really takes to its intended role.

Thoughts on the Brigand template:

Works pretty well as an alternative to the Pirate template without leaning too far into the bonus damage stuff that the Pirate template does, in my opinion. Dirty Fighting especially was very effective on the Kensei when working in conjunction with its Charged profile loop. Lockout recharged once during the fight which meant I got to use it twice. Both times I succeeded on using it against the Saladin who had their ENCLAVE and Flash Lock systems disabled. Requiring a Full Tech and Recharge 6+ are very fair tradeoffs for something asymmetric like this, in my opinion. Not really much to add other than I think this template is great.

vagrant grotto
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Taking notes for all of this

magic rover
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Running through Wallflower and I've had the idea to pair a Zealot with an Avenger. I'll look at optional synergy and see how they work together.

Purely based off Zeal and Martyrdom, should be quite extravagant for the Avenger

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Since this is my first run using Wallflower stuff, these won't be the rebaked NPCs all core WF

static kernel
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which is exactly what the knight punishes you for

vagrant grotto
static kernel
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yeah, i clarified that for my players, but it might be worth explicitly calling out in the text of the ability?

vagrant grotto
magic rover
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I've been leery of vanilla Spite and Strider lmao, but the Avenger seems like the less egregious out the box

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
static kernel
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vanilla spite is arguably a bit undertuned tbqh

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it can only defend adjacent characters and most of its offensive abilities are gated by saves as well as actions

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the rebake is much better at defining its niche as a 'tech artillery' imo

magic rover
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Also, I'll be upfront, if you want an on hit stun, as in like the Demolisher has, you gotta make it a save. Or make it a different condition.

Perhaps indirectly tie it in resulting from the System Save the target makes at the start of each of their turns?

Start of turn: if they pass the save, they are not at risk.
Maybe a whole new ability called Masterstrike to the longsword, so if the target fails the save, you can choose between doing damage with the longsword or masterstriking, which stuns the target instead

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(For the Knight)

vagrant grotto
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I want to see tests on it first before I dismiss it

static kernel
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i know that liminal space does some 'stun until start of turn' stuff too, it's quite different from your standard EoNT stun yeah

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main thing is that it makes you VERY vulnerable to attacks until you take your next turn, which is threatening, but not as demoralising as losing a turn

magic rover
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I have the agree, the 'not being able to play the game' is a whole other side to it. But the vulnerability aspect can be ridiculously punishing, especially considering the Knight is most definitely not going to be alone.

Hard counter to dodge tanks all things considering lmao

vagrant grotto
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It’s gotta hit first tbf

magic rover
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My last experience with Stun was using Ronin's Rebound on a Siege Cannon shot, structuring the player in return, they got stunned on the check and proceeded to get mogged by several speedy strikers I had on hand

ashen crown
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On a PC it’s not too bad, on an NPC I’m slightly wary. Curious, eager for it to work on the Knight, but wary

static kernel
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it occurs to me that the gorgon's core would be a lot better if it were stun until SoNT instead of EoNT too now that you mention it. you could probably get rid of the 1/scene restriction with that

magic rover
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Stun is a bit of a black sheep. Not a lot of player systems have it and if they do, it oftens stuns themself along with the target.

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Start of next turn is an interesting switch up to the rule, it might make it more palatable

vagrant grotto
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Yeah no looking forward to playtest feedback on it

magic rover
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Switching the Avenger to a Knight and giving it Revenge /s

vagrant grotto
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I can’t stop you from voiding your warranties, have fun

placid glacier
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does mortal draw still need testing? idk if the current list has been updated yet

vagrant grotto
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Which will need tested

placid glacier
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gotcha 👍

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would it be ok to test this before 1.18 drops?

vagrant grotto
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Yes please go for it

placid glacier
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was trying to think of something for my skirmish oneshot and I thought "I might try out that Kensei/Seeder Combo"

vagrant grotto
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I also changed a few NPCs e defense scaling values

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Prism evasion went down to average, but edef went to 11/13/15 iirc

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
placid glacier
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I think I will give the "majority of the opfor has overclocked" another shot

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Oh. Fuck

opaque crescent
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is burst a sphere?

vagrant grotto
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Volley module videogames

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Yeah by default

opaque crescent
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good

umbral sluice
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isnt burst more like a cylinder since lancer doesnt do pythagoras

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i cant rember

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3d space hurts my head

dapper goblet
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Its a cube in squares and hexes dont tesselate

vagrant grotto
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Meanwhile, me with my 1-2-1 diagonals:

placid glacier
umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
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Gotta go back to that one

placid glacier
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should i run this as is then? friendly fire be damned?

vagrant grotto
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Ugh no

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It’ll massacre everything

placid glacier
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I mean I still got a hot minute until I usually run my game

vagrant grotto
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Run it with friendly fire off

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If anything

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This thing should not fuck up their allied team

umbral sluice
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doing 10 damage and shred to all of your teammates is kind of :(

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...also couldnt the kensei willingly choose to fail the attacks on allies? though reliable is there

vagrant grotto
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Cannot willingly miss attacks

umbral sluice
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oh huh

vagrant grotto
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That’s a house rule at best

umbral sluice
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i swear that was included in the same clause as checks and saves

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guess my bad

vagrant grotto
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And DD288 users would abuse it

umbral sluice
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yyyep im realising why this isnt a thing now

vagrant grotto
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Bombards too

placid glacier
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other than mortal draw and minor stat changes, what else is not up to date on the testing list?

vagrant grotto
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Lemme dig it up

static kernel
vagrant grotto
# placid glacier other than mortal draw and minor stat changes, what else is not up to date on th...

PPG optionals to test

Anchor

  • [x]
    Capacitor
  • [x]
    Ghost
  • [ ] String Theory Marionette
  • [ ] Wavefunction Collapse
  • [ ] Coherent Entanglement (ultra)
    Hatchet
  • [ ] Return to Sender
  • [ ] Hurricane of steel (ultra)
    Kensei
  • [ ] Mortal draw (ultra)
    Knight
  • [x]
    Mesmerist
  • [x]
    Napalm
  • [x]
    Occultist
  • [ ] Lead Astray
    Prism
  • [x]
    Torrent
  • [ ] Provisional “Prone without save on collision” (more)
  • [ ] Crashing Tsunami (more)
    Vulture
  • [ ] Aggressive refabrication (ultra)
    Zealot
  • [x]

Anomaly

  • [ ] Anything but lemme know if issues stick out like a sore thumb

Brigand

  • [ ] Surgekiller
  • [ ] Shredding Claws

Formation

  • [ ] Anything at all

Prototype

  • [ ] Anything but lemme know if issues stick out like a sore thumb
vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
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Yes! It’s doing well

umbral sluice
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I was always curious of that one

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hell yeah

vagrant grotto
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Return to Sender is alright but I think I need to ponder it more

placid glacier
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I have been doing a bunch of testing with new dive because I've had a couple weeks of skirmish oneshots lol

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and I love the hatchet

vagrant grotto
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Meantime, can’t hurt to get more data on Return

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But yeah Knight got an HP bump that could be substantial

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And Ghost got some significant changes to Paradox State two patches ago to the point where the dependent optionals need retested

vagrant grotto
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I may revise it more though because now I have more page space tbh

placid glacier
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ah damn- no lancer tonight

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shame

south onyx
vagrant grotto
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Makes me wonder if an Edef drop would’ve been good on Jammed lol

opaque crescent
south onyx
vagrant grotto
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Just… loses the “single cut” energy

south onyx
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I have my ponderings on how I'd adjust conditions like jammed but that's not really a thing for here

vagrant grotto
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Yeah all good

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I do enjoy fuckin around with house rules but yeah I’ll refrain for more

opaque crescent
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thoughts on all characters in cone instead of burst?

vagrant grotto
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“But maybe”

placid glacier
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well it has the thing where prone characters don't get hit- maybe allowing its allies to drop prone as protocol like how the kai sniper does it?

vagrant grotto
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Dropping prone is a debuff too though

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I’m not a fan of broadly fucking over teammates on the NPC side

static kernel
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I always feel like dropping prone should just be a regular action instead of being tied to hostile abilities

vagrant grotto
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That’s what I decided too, and why I added the Drop Prone action as an optional rule

steel apex
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A basic rule for voluntarily dropping prone makes sense in games where being prone confers some sort of bonus, like a lot of games have prone make you harder to shoot since you're hitting the dirt, but in lancer prone is just a straight-up debuff, so it would be weirder if there was a default "go prone" action, as I see it

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It's been a while since I checked in on the latest PPG updates so maybe this is in conjunction with some other tweaks to prone that Valk made which turn it into more of a double-edged thing, but otherwise I sort of struggle to think of a time I'd really want to voluntarily go prone just because

static kernel
sand mulch
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but you could also just add that rule to the sitrep instead of adding a brand new rule for just a sitrep

steel apex
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I think I'm approaching this from a more top-down design angle where if you make something a general rule, people are going to assume it has a general use-case and be very confused when it's used for like two specific niche things

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A bunch of people new to lancer bring baggage from other games into it...why doesn't invisibility work the way it does in D&D, why doesn't prone work the way it does in D&D, etc...and making going prone a general rule would I am 10000% certain result in a bunch of people trying to go prone to avoid being shot, being told "actually going prone makes you easier to shoot," and getting extremely confused/pissed

vagrant grotto
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Yeah that’s valid. Mostly doing it because there’s other homebrew design space where dropping prone could be a useful limiter/source of defense, but as it is it needs to be defined every time it comes up.

I’ll say that for my current iteration of Drop Prone, it does allow a character to safely descend without taking damage before falling Prone, so there’s a benefit there at least

If I go harder on the diegesis I might tweak Prone itself to let it treat you as 1 size smaller for the purposes of cover (so dropping prone lets a Balor take cover behind a wide size 1 low wall vs a sniper, or Hide behind that wall vs a Witch to avoid hacks)

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The fact that Prone characters are still occupying their whole height has chafed at my brain before, so I wouldn’t mind taking a light red pen to it and seeing how it plays

south onyx
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I think if I was going to do it I'd make it a separate thing to prone that's like 'Hunker Down'. Prone is 'My mech is facedown in the dirt, my head just impacted my console and my ears are ringing'. Hunker down is 'I am crouched and locked into place'.

But in the end, I think we do have a thing for voluntary actions taken to get extra protection from attack: Bracing.

vagrant grotto
south cypress
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Has Ghost been tested against a Calendula before?

vagrant grotto
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Yes, it got munched

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Since then I buffed the HP

umbral sluice
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died like turn 2

vagrant grotto
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Tbf that’s any normal NPC

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But yeah I buffed it up to 8/10?/12? base hp in response

south cypress
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Did session zero for a new game last night and I have a Calendula in the party. I want to throw an Auntie Ghost at him

vagrant grotto
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Yessssssss

south cypress
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Will likely be a few weeks though. I don't want to do that in the first combat or anything. I'm just excited about it

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
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Current progress on Suggested Usage:
✅ Anchor
❌ Boombox
✅ Capacitor
✅ Ghost
✅ Hatchet
❌ Howler
🟡 Kensei
🟡 Knight
🟡 Mesmerist
✅ Napalm
✅ Occultist
🟡 Prism
🟡 Torrent
✅ Vulture
✅ Zealot

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I've got at least 1 Opfor pairing for all but Boombox and Howler. Hatchet and Knight are further along than the rest

vagrant grotto
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THRALLDOM
- OCCULTIST (SCAPEGOAT)
- BASTION GRUNTS (DEATHCOUNTER)
The GRUNTS serve as a disposable source of cover and protection as the Occultist redirects attacks into their DEATHCOUNTER. Once the Bastions are close enough to their targets, the Occultist uses REAP THE CHAFF to force those nearby to save against JAMMED.

Got a nasty Opfor Pairing for Occultist

vagrant grotto
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RAIN OF FIRE
- ZEALOT (BLAZING FERVOR)
- ARCHER (COVERING FIRE)
The Zealot positions the Archer with FANATICAL CHARGE and empowers their attacks with ZEAL and BLAZING FERVOR. The Archer lays COVERING FIRE down upon foes within ZEAL to deter attacks upon the Zealot.
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found a real mean combo

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get that venn diagram ready

vagrant grotto
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btw when these pairings land, feel free to give feedback on them and lemme know if they suck ass or not

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a lot of it is spitballing based off of my experience with the NPCs

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@ashen crown revised Knight lore

Knight pilots live for the thrill of battle. They engage high value targets in a compulsory duel, locking themselves in a fight to the death. The PG’s durability, high visibility, and martial prowess attracts both paladins and blackguards alike hoping to capitalize upon its strengths.
dusk zodiac
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Are you accepting pitches for Opfor parings or nah?

vagrant grotto
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nah not currently

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Knights are here for Honor and Glory, both found by kicking your face in

ashen crown
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The thing is “thrill of battle” and “honor and glory” are two separate things in my mind

vagrant grotto
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"glory of battle"

ashen crown
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That sounds a lot better in my mind

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When I hear “the thrill of battle” the first thing that comes to mind is a Berserker, to clarify why I see them as separate

vagrant grotto
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Unrelated: I'm bumping Mach Parry's OS back up to 5/7/9 to figure out if the initial nerf was kneejerk

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Maria's Enforcer in #1062222891342647366 gets Overshield 3 + 3 per hostile in range 3 as a Protocol, of all things, with a statline of HP 15/18/20 and Armor 2 (same Evasion as Kensei) and yet seems pretty reasonable in its gains from the testing reported there

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We're gonna see how this flies (if someone wants to test this ahead of the v1.18 release and lemme know how it feels, be my guest)

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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I’ve moved away from 4/6/8 tbh

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Like across the board

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5/7/9 is good for matching its damage profile

ashen crown
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But yeah a Kensei does have to give up both a quick action, 2 heat, a reaction, and being sheathed after taking damage to get that Overshield. 5/7/9 sounds reasonable as compensation

vagrant grotto
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The primary value for the sheathing (aka 2 heat + the QA) is this “quantum state” of flexibility

Either get a chunk of Overshield, or get a more powerful attack

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And while I think that flexibility is a kind of power of its own, I’m not positive on how to value it

vagrant grotto
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down to just the Kensei, Prism, and Torrent for tips'n'tricks

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Down to Kensei and Torrent

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MUDSLIDE
- TORRENT
- SUPPORT (LATCH DRONE)
The Support uses RESTOCK DRONE and LATCH DRONE to keep the Torrent healthy and improve its ACCURACY. The Torrent bashes opponents into mires of difficult terrain caused by the Support’s SEALANT GUN while being largely unaffected by its downsides thanks to UNDERTOW and its self-push movement.

to all you slop enjoyers: two can play at this game

dapper goblet
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GOD I love slop builds

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Listening to my players howling about difficult terrain pits is my ambrosia

vagrant grotto
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I want you all to guess which one is an NPC supplement and which one is a published adventure

image.png image.png
dapper goblet
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Lol

vagrant grotto
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and then there was one: Kensei is the last one of the bunch I'm willing to write up atm (Boombox and Howler need testing first)

dapper goblet
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Oh is howler in a good spot for beta testin?

vagrant grotto
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just about, it'll land in next release

dapper goblet
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I can work it into a fight tomorrow if so

vagrant grotto
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1 minute then

dapper goblet
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The opfor has a sentinel in it i dont like lol

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Text is fine happy to plug manually

vagrant grotto
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it'll load in as v1.17 as a heads up

dapper goblet
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recieved and noted

gaunt heron
placid glacier
dapper goblet
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gonna pop a couple of Veteran Howlers into an extract mission with their vet optional and self repair. Its part of my roguelite shit so it may not be the best data but i'll get some first impressions.

dusk zodiac
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just wanna double-check: you sent me a free copy of PPG?

vagrant grotto
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I'll take the data

vagrant grotto
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been making the rounds for folks in my playtest log

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if there's a spam warning, it's only because I messaged a double-digit number of folks 😅

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If you dropped me some feedback and I didn't send you a code, feel free to PM, I think I covered just about everyone

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MORTAL DRAW (ULTRA)
Trait, Recharge 6+
If the Kensei takes the final NPC turn of the round, for that turn the CHARGED profile of its “MINUANO” KINETIC SABER may choose to attack characters in Cone 15 and line of sight but not in hard cover or PRONE. After the attack resolves, all terrain SIZE 5 and smaller is reduced in height by 1, as it is cut down by the attack.

Is this anything, chat

dusk zodiac
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That's sort of how DMC3 handled Judgement Cut End (which is what this system wants to be) so I think it works

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
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aight, I've got dinner to make, but I finished suggestions for the Kensei

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Planning on v1.18 release tonight-ish or tomorrow-ish

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I will be putting a price tag on PPG when I do so; it'll be at a temporary sale price of US$4.99 while I collect additional feedback

Not sure on the full price yet, but it will be at least US$9.99 if not more. This is over 25k words now, and better-playtested than anything else I've written

ashen crown
umbral sluice
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maybe I am underestimating a cone 15 ngl

vagrant grotto
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it's pretty fuckin big, though not as big as a 20-across hex

ashen crown
ashen crown
opaque crescent
ashen crown
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Cause if the Kensei takes the very last turn and recharges it just in the nick of time, quite literally the entire table is caught off guard, potentially even the Kensei and its buds. Meanwhile if it starts the round with it charged everyone knows what to expect and will react accordingly

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This makes the fact that it’s a big AOE that can be aimed but still risks friendly fire so much more interesting imo

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It makes the enemies having a heads up about it as important as the players having a heads up, and makes it all the more dangerous for both sides if it comes out unexpectedly

opaque crescent
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It being a huge cone actually changes the counterplay a lot, makes it so there's 2 good ways to avoid it as players, either split your party either side of it so it can't hit all of you with the cone or huddle close to make it near impossible to hit more than one character with the cone.
Either way, the party has to play into what it wants somewhat - split party means it can look at harassing the weaker side, while the party staying close to it lets it keep it's mortal draw while still getting benefits from the charged profile

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its very cool

ashen crown
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And it makes clustering near enemies as a sort of game of chicken more viable too. That was still possible with the burst but it was more incidental than intentional

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
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I may adjust the wording to indicate to players when it’s primed

muted blaze
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Oh my goodness gracious

vagrant grotto
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We gotta commit to the bit

muted blaze
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To show you the power of Minuano kinetic saber

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I just cut this sitrep in half!

opaque crescent
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very glad to see the feedback that it didn't feel sitrep defining before taken to heart by allowing it to obliterate the entire sitrep now

muted blaze
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As it should

sudden cosmos
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I'm assuming this has been shared/seen previously here

vagrant grotto
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Oh yes and I always chuckle when I see it

sudden cosmos
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my response when a player sent it to me was "I used an all-anomaly sitrep ONE TIME"

vagrant grotto
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Or 4 heat self, I don’t know

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6 is too narrow

# 
MORTAL DRAW (ULTRA)    Trait 

On the Kensei’s first turn of the round, after it sheathes its weapon, it glows with a blood-red aura visible to all characters. If the Kensei takes the final NPC turn of the round, for that turn it may choose to take 4 Heat when attacking with the CHARGED profile of its “MINUANO” KINETIC SABER to attack all characters in Cone 15 and line of sight but not in hard cover or PRONE. After the attack resolves, all terrain SIZE 5 and smaller is reduced in height by 1, as it is cut down by the attack.

this read okay?

dapper goblet
#

Prone part feels weird but operation is clear

muted blaze
#

Turn 1: Prime blade, Turn 2: ???? Turn 3: Mega slash

vagrant grotto
#

ah. fuck

#

good catch

ashen crown
#

Staying sheathed for a turn is technically possible, but it’s very difficult for the Kensei

vagrant grotto
#

I addressed it in a patch version

#

writing the changelog now

ashen crown
#

Oh can they not remain sheathed if they start + end a turn sheathed (without re-sheathing I mean)? I personally thought that was something okay to allow

#

Cause like… where’s the harm?

vagrant grotto
#

you can, I just made it more flexible

#

UPDATE TO 1.18.1!

Bad news: Minimum price updated to US$4.99
Good news: New NPC classes (Boombox and Howler) plus new GM advice for all previous NPC classes built on months of playtest feedback

itch.io
Update to 1.18!

1.18.1 When I initially released Prototype Pattern Groups a little over a year and a half ago, I did not expect it to grow to what it is now. Initially, it was a simple collection of 8 NPC Classes, a...

ashen crown
#

Oh no you’re getting compensated for your time that suuucks sooo baaad i love not paying people who make quality work (joke)

#

Players: “Please just let this be a normal Sitrep-“
Me: “With Valk? NO WAY!”
I deploy 3 Prototype Boomboxes as I play the Magic School Bus theme at 400% bass

flat urchin
#

running the objective, you're relaxed and feelin good
next thing that you know you're seeing --
WAHAHAHOOOOOO
an anomaly in the neighborhood?!

ashen crown
#

Oh I just realized- my houserule regarding Commanders and Boomboxes (basically Commanders can draw LOS from allied Boomboxes for Commander abilities) works great thematically with a Commander Zealot

#

Anyhow I gotta remake my list of PPG NPC arbitrary factions

#

IPS-N

  • Hatchet
  • Howler
  • Kensei
  • Knight
  • Occultist
  • Vulture

SSC:

  • Anchor
  • Boombox?
  • Capacitor
  • Ghost
  • Hatchet
  • Kensei
  • Mesmerist
  • Prism

HORUS:

  • Boombox
  • Ghost
  • Howler
  • Mesmerist
  • Occultist
  • Torrent
  • Vulture
  • Zealot

HA:

  • Anchor
  • Howler
  • Napalm
  • Occultist

KTB:

  • Anchor
  • Ghost
  • Knight
  • Mesmerist
  • Torrent
  • Zealot
vagrant grotto
#

Boombox probably has either HORUS or HORIZON energy yeah

#

also hey, looks like HORUS is the biggest faction based on vibes, wonder why that is crylaughing

ashen crown
#

You could reasonably axe Ghost from the list since Calendula is the Intangibility machine, not any true Horus Mech, but eh

vagrant grotto
#

HORUS is just my favorite faction, their weird shit is my shit

ashen crown
#

(And SSC has Fade Cloak which is more than true HORUS has)

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

plus they definitely feel more "bleeding edge" which naturally lends itself to, you know, "Prototype Pattern Groups"

ashen crown
#

Added Mesmerist to SSC cause it and Dusk Wing share too much DNA

#

I do once again appreciate how PPG (and all NPC classes in general) are vague enough to fit wherever. Was honestly considering Boombox for IPS-N, HA, and KTB, and frankly they could fit there with the right flavor

vagrant grotto
#

Boombox could just as easily be an HA Propaganda Machine spouting the Ras Shamra National Anthem

dusk zodiac
#

You know with this update you have (within a ~1-2 margin of error) almost exactly half as many new NPCs as there were in the CRB

#

just a neat thing I realized

vagrant grotto
#

yuuuuup, this used to be like, 19 pages on release

it's now 55

#

We'll see how Boombox and Howler fare; I'm hopeful for the two of them

#

right now I think the previous NPCs that are most subject to change are

  1. Prism
  2. Torrent
  3. Hatchet (specifically Return to Sender and potentially Hurricane of Steel)
  4. Maybe Jumpstart on Vulture
ashen crown
#

Another fan Prototype optional:

Blink Armor
Trait, Shield
The Prototype has its HP reduced to half (to a maximum of 8/10/12) and is permanently Shredded. Whenever the Prototype would take damage, the damage is reduced to 1.

If the Prototype is targeted by the Scan Quick Tech Action, the next instance of damage it takes cannot be reduced.

sudden cosmos
#

the lore for the boombox is cute

dapper goblet
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
sudden cosmos
#

self-quoting your own lore is cool and good and more people should do it with their stuff

#

love a little shared canon within a creator's works

#

thinking about turning regret into a howler though now that I'm looking at this

#

howlers ARE enkiduesque after all

vagrant grotto
#

Absolutely

#

Meanwhile, I’m thinking imma run a game <t:1771095600:F> or <t:1771182000:F>

placid glacier
#

Wooooo 1.18 dropped!

opaque crescent
vagrant grotto
#

Forgot to include this in the dev log but whatever: One of my favorite songs, about taking the plunge in the face of uncertainty: https://youtu.be/LQltatiFkSE

YouTube
Protest the Hero - Topic
Skies

Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group

Skies · Protest The Hero

Volition

℗ 2013 Protest The Hero under exclusive licence to Spinefarm Records

Released on: 2013-10-29

Composer Lyricist, Associated Performer, Vocals: Rody Walker
Associated Performer, Composer Lyricist: Luke Hoskin
Associated Performer, Composer Lyricist: Tim Millar
B...

▶ Play video
tame wharf
placid glacier
#

the timing of howler is incredibly funny with consideration to the current happenings in deadlock

#

(new character that dropped like last week was a werewolf woman that is basically the Howler playbook lmao)

#

It will be voiding the warrenty but I really wanna do a stupid warrenty voiding thing of making an Ultra Sentinal that Lycan Goes Loud into a Howler

umbral sluice
muted blaze
warm cedar
vagrant grotto
#

So right now I’ve got Tonysan, Cat, Ariana, and reCaste expressing interest, but some are willing to cede their seat if others speak up

warm cedar
granite saddle
#

Battlegrouping on saturday so surprisingly, sunday for me

warm cedar
#

On your way to deploy your Thoreau again I guess lol

granite saddle
#

Please, I'm on my way to blow up someone else's Thoreau this time

#

Besides, my last two games have been dive Neys

#

If I wasn't GMing (and getting bribed with two games ran for me), you know I'd have canceled for this

#

I love me some Battlegroup, but this, this is peak.

warm cedar
#

Battlegroup is peak

granite saddle
#

True;
This is more

#

Source : well I paid for one and not the other

vagrant grotto
#

Not a competition, glad you’re interested in Sunday!

granite saddle
#

You're right, it really isn't; I was just being fake biased for the funny because I actually got to participate in this, while I was too late for BG

viscid ingot
#

Eeeeey, I just got a notif on my itch that Prototype Pattern Group hit the 1.18 version and got priced. Comgratumalations.

vagrant grotto
#

Thank you! It’s still in “early access” for testing some new NPCs and such, but now that I’ve added so much value I couldn’t justify keeping it PWYW anymore

viscid ingot
#

Fair fair fair

gaunt heron
vagrant grotto
#

And listen: I’ll happily playtest with folks who know where I’m coming from with my designs lol

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
#

For Sunday I have

  • Tonysan
  • Waterdragon
  • Ariana
  • [Open]

And then in the waitlist/low priority I have

  • reCaste
  • Cat
  • Isa
sudden cosmos
#

Me recruiting for the regret howler fight like

Screenshot_20260210-092814.png
vagrant grotto
#

Never thought I’d be rolling dice to determine which waitlister gets on hahahaha

umbral sluice
#

I'm the same as Snistle honestly, I've been in a lot of these so getting different voices in is also good

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

New material new faces = “WTF is this, who the hell do you think you are rewriting my backstory”

#

Old material old faces = this is just a regular game. Lol. Lmao

umbral sluice
#

so i assume if its familiar people we're getting the howlers and boomboxes all over the sitrep

vagrant grotto
#

Perchance

#

Formations haven’t been tested at all yet

#

But also if I wanted new faces I’d go to #lancer-game-recruiting

granite saddle
#

I'd like to point out I've been on an accidental break of PPG for so long I probably won't know what the hell anything is anymore so

vagrant grotto
#

Everything is the same except it definitely isn’t

#

That should cover it

granite saddle
#

I'm used to your vision and stuff but other than that I'm fresh eyes

vagrant grotto
#

Deffo check out the dev logs since the last version of PPG you picked up

umbral sluice
#

kensei got 4 speed, and then 5 speed again

granite saddle
#

I'm gonna be scrounging around to push my archives up to date

#

I'll die before not having all the versions in my 'puter

ashen crown
#

Hm. Odd thought: an Anchor and Ronin are probably slightly antisynergetic

#

This is an apropos about nothing to be clear

sudden cosmos
#

Bouta hit the party with an ultra veteran howler.

#

Pray for them.

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Emphasis on the slightly, purely because Lodestone stops the Ronin from being able to deflect

#

Probably not antisynergetic enough to be relevant tho

sudden cosmos
ashen crown
#

Like… almost ever

vagrant grotto
#

Ronin only has Rebound so it doesn’t get shot to shit in the first place, so it’s a net positive

#

Kai rebake ronin will mark someone anyway

vagrant grotto
#

That is a lot of optionals I absolutely have not tested yet

sudden cosmos
#

I figured I should get it in a low stakes environment before hitting a party with it in a campaign

vagrant grotto
#

Right now my bet is that Longclaw is gonna get the axe

#

But we’ll see

sudden cosmos
#

Hmm. Zealot buddy.

#

That should be fun.

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Rabid Lunge allowing a grapple wouldn’t fix things I feel

vagrant grotto
#

No, it would still need the Boost and Reactions allowance

#

This thing depends upon reactions

umbral sluice
#

and sure, Longclaw is a strong effect but I rarely see turning off 90% of your kit being worth it

#

aiui the biggest strength of this thing is the multiple overwatches and the taunt

vagrant grotto
#

Longclaw innately allows for reactions while grappling

#

So it’s not anti synergistic

umbral sluice
#

oh huh I think im remembering an older version

#

or i just cant rember things

ashen crown
#

It feels like a weirdly big gameplan change tho

vagrant grotto
#

Eh, not that much

#

After engaging, instead of Howl + Skirmish, do Howl + Grapple

#

You still get your Overwatches, just now they can’t move away even if they wanted to

ashen crown
#

I mean moreso going from “Grapple is a NO GO” to “Incorporate Grapple into the gameplay loop NOW”

#

Like Berserkers still like Grappling even if their optionals are the main ties into them

#

It’s a pretty big binary difference

#

Typically NPCs with optionals that tie into Grapple still have a base kit that isn’t directly contradictory to the action

vagrant grotto
#

Right, hence why I make sure the optional gets out of the way of the base kit

#

Unironically if I made it Goliath’s Pin or like Pinning Spire it would be basically the same, albeit with more spilled ink

vagrant grotto
#

@untold vault by the way I fulfilled that request of yours for adding usage tips for each NPC

untold vault
vagrant grotto
untold vault
sudden cosmos
#

I'm going to be playing the howler like a violent freak of an enkidu is intends to bully shit shit out of the party one person at a time

#

For that, longclaw provides a very interesting option

#

Especially if I bite who I'm grappling and turn them hostile so they have to hit the BCL to free them (it's LL1 and I know at least one is in a chomolungma)

#

Though maybe I should swap no escape for bloodhunt thonkspin

#

In hindsight, longclaw is a bit odd

vagrant grotto
#

Realized that all my NPCs that clear conditions don’t specify if it was self inflicted or not pain

I don’t think it generally matters for NPCs, given that most everything self-inflicted is tied to another state (e.g. activate defense net, while defense net is up you’re immobilized, so if you clear immobilized while in defense net you’re still immobilized) but there may be some abuse cases

#

If I find the need to reword “clear a condition” I may need to keep it concise, in which case I may try “clear 1 hostile condition”?

ashen crown
granite saddle
#

Yeah, especially for GM stuff, the CRB doesn't mention it either even though it's very much intended to not clear self-inflicted stuff

dapper goblet
#

Very early thoughts on howler: I feel like grappling is way, way too effective against it. Only a few rounds into the encounter but will report back more fullsome data later, just want to flag this for now

#

Not even necessarily from a power perspective, but rather "this demotes it to being a big overshield brick if you have a size 2 mech or anyone with smn"

ashen crown
#

Point to consider: how is that any different from a Sentinel?

vagrant grotto
#

And sentinel can then barrage you for your troubles

#

Basically, I may need Grapple protection on the claws by default

sudden cosmos
#

Maybe it's my own design proclivities, but I do rather like howler being either a grappler or an overwatcher who can be shut down by grappling and being able to use optionals to pivot between them

#

Like, if the claws have pro-grappling tech, it could enable longclaw builds better

vagrant grotto
#

TIL you can shut down an Enkidu’s Primal Fury by simply grappling it

sudden cosmos
#

I never had a size 2 or 3 that could contest the enkidu I was fighting against last time I faced one, but yes

vagrant grotto
#

Enkidu also has Hull accuracy to discourage Size 2 grabs, yeah

dapper goblet
#

Also enkidu has the propensity to Immobilize anyone approaching them, further making grapple hard

#

Currently the howler in my game was grabbed by a balor and is getting badly bullied. Considering it needs to get up in people's face to do anything (another distinction from enkidu, which is close range but more like area denial), the counter being "ok use a basic action" just feels really odd

#

And co-signing Isas idea of making it a plan pivot when it gets grappled rather than a way to ignore the effect.

ashen crown
dapper goblet
#

Negatory

#

Its only special in that it doesnt eat your reactions. Things are special in how they say they're special

ashen crown
#

Typically that’s considered a positive instead of a negative, plus the fact it’s size 2 means it’s less vulnerable to being dragged around in a grapple it can’t control

dapper goblet
#

Right, I dont think thats inherently bad but it completely shuts down the feature that makes it appealing to run

ashen crown
#

Like:

  • Berserker: Fragsig or Ram
  • Hornet: Lock On or Fragsig
  • Lurker: Fragsig
  • Cataphract: Frag- you know I’m noticing a pattern here
dapper goblet
#

Notably those are all turning off defensive capabilities

vagrant grotto
#

Tbf I do think Zerker is a bit too easy of a knowledge check to pass

flat urchin
#

fragsig doesn't make the berserker hit any less hard, though

#

for example

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Anyway, noted on Grapple’s interaction

ashen crown
#

Archers and Sentinels are equally shut down by grapples tho, albeit operating at slightly different(but not too different) range bands

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah no Archer is wayyyyyy different here

ashen crown
#

Wait Sentinels can barrage

vagrant grotto
#

And yes Sentinels can barrage like I mentioned earlier

dapper goblet
#

Archers very different and sentinels can slap you very hard yeah

ashen crown
#

Okay I’m seeing the point now

vagrant grotto
#

So you can grab them but that means you’re much more at risk

ashen crown
#

Idea: add Knockback to the claws?

dapper goblet
#

And archer has already lost if you close to melee

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Ye

vagrant grotto
#

Might be a little too fiddly

ashen crown
#

It’s a bit of an area defender, and Knockback is opt out, so it’s reasonable. But fair

vagrant grotto
#

People were already saying that the claws were doing too much

ashen crown
#

Good point

vagrant grotto
#

Howler is not an area defender

#

Howler is a lockdown initiator tank

#

It keeps you caged, not keeps you out

dapper goblet
#

Feels like that would just wind you in the same place too. If youre able to hit with the claws, youre already doing your job

ashen crown
#

Reflecting back on it, yeah it’s not very good at standing still and waiting for foes to come to it. Fair point

#

I just feel like the Howler being able to circumvent grapple entirely feels like too big a step in the opposite direction tho

#

There’s a significantly large power gap between the Howler ignoring and not ignoring the downsides of grapple

vagrant grotto
#

This is why I can maybe consider Grapple incentives… but also, like, if I have it code shift based on grapple, that adds a layer of “system mastery”

ashen crown
#

Maybe wait for more data?

dapper goblet
#

I think the easiest fix is to shift to a sentinelish answer. "Ok, you can grapple me but if I start my turn in a grapple I didnt initiate im slapping you a bunch"

#

But yeah this is VERY preliminary thoughts

vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

Isa is doing a longclaw ultra howler so we'll see how it feels in practice soon

vagrant grotto
#

Honestly if ignoring grapple for ripper overwatch is beyond the pale, I’d maybe consider one trait that lets it be treated as larger for grapples or something

#

Give it SMN

ashen crown
#

It’s already size 2 tho, that feels like enough

vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
#

I could also see like

FERAL IMPULSE
When the Howler begins its turn, if it is in a grapple it did not initiate, it may make 2 attacks with the [claws] against any character it is Grappled to.
#

Wording could be a lot better but thats the sentinel adjacent fix

vagrant grotto
#

I am going to consider the design after some more testing. Thank you for the feedback, I’ll be keeping an eye on it

vagrant grotto
#

Getting the weird urge to run something more long form in Lancer to test an adventure structure

Dunno if I have the time to dedicate to this yet though

muted blaze
#

Civil war?

vagrant grotto
#

Not yet

#

Albatross

#

Something less committal with a structure I’m more intimately familiar with

granite saddle
#

Oooh Albatross content ! Love those guys.

vagrant grotto
#

I’ve also started futzing with affinity publisher 2 while starting some work on the one-trait factions

#

Fun fact: the existing layout for templates is incredibly unwieldy for what these are, lol, lmao

#

BIG TITLE

flavor text

BASE FEATURES

FEATURE - Trait
Feature goes here.
#

Repeat ad infinitum

#

If I’m gonna use a big title there’s gotta be more stuff under it

#

Problem is: what stuff am I willing to add lol

#

There’s already a fuckload of ideas

#

If I made deep lore and motivations and faction rosters that’d likely be rad to have, but also, I’d have to do that a fuckload of times

#

I think for now I’m keeping it as a pile of very basic template features with no lore

#

If I get the bug to add more content I’ll do that later

#

But yeah I’m also thinking about best ways to present the information, and if I should choose to break from Lancer’s house style or not

sudden cosmos
#

If you wanna save yourself a couple words on Rabid Lunge, the movement being flying means it has to be a straight line by default

vagrant grotto
minor crest
#

Oh yeah, saving this for later

vagrant grotto
#

had this one sitting in the drafts, so with adding a pricetag on PPG it was time to let it rip

#

might post the Overcharge rules if I'm feeling cute later

granite saddle
#

The bloggening is upon us

vagrant grotto
#

I started typing up the Overcharge post and have realized I am now ranting

#

I gotta pare this down

viscid ingot
#

Your PPG Structure and Stress rules are really interesting.

#

What possessed you to get rid of the RNG and slap the Dazed and Overheating statuses?

#

Just curious.

vagrant grotto
#

And System Trauma was simply more evocative than any other result on the Structure table

viscid ingot
#

True. System Trauma is thematic as fuck for a Structure result.

#

Dazed or System Trauma on a Structure is definitely unique instead of the off chance that ya get Direct Smacked.

#

I might start running my games with your ruling.

#

I'm still slightly confused with Stress but that could just be me being a dumbass. Is it on a Stress the victim can only become Exposed and Overheated now?

vagrant grotto
#

I heartily endorse it, it’s enjoyable

I’ll admit I haven’t gotten a lot of mission-long testing with it, but by making Stress something you don’t have to repair, it offsets any additional repairs costed from system trauma

viscid ingot
#

No other result for reactor stress?

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
#

Ok. That is VERY interesting.

#

Combined with how you made Recharge Systems for NPC create Heat.

#

That is also a funky thing.

vagrant grotto
#

You get overheated + exposed and any external heat damages you (and you can’t inflict heat to yourself)

viscid ingot
#

It makes Heat and Danger Zone focused builds VERY risky now

vagrant grotto
#

Yup

#

I was working on my blog post for alternative overcharge but… lost energy part way through

#

But it’s in PPG

viscid ingot
#

I might start introducing it in my pickup games and campaigns.

#

I believe reCaste made a module with your rules in mind?

vagrant grotto
#

Yup I link it in that blog post (and on the PPG itch page)

opaque crescent
#

I have been summoned

viscid ingot
#

Lovely

#

Also all hail reCaste for the module

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
#

Can't wait to use it :3

placid glacier
#

One of my players is still sick so gonna be trying a skirmish oneshot again this week, thinking if I wanna keep the testing for the new Ultra Kensei or do something with either the boombox or howler-

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
#

true... 🤔

#

running a blitz with both modifiers (letting the players grab or destroy 'specialty ammo' crates) so either could do well...

#

maaaybe boombox since I haven't heard much talk on it yet?

vagrant grotto
#

Hell yeah

#

It’s fresh outta the box

placid glacier
#

breacher/boombox sounds like an absolutely disgusting combo in my head

#

assassins are on the table too...

vagrant grotto
#

For reference for anyone playtesting my NPCs, my litmus tests are:

  1. How does it feel with base kit only, zero optionals or templates
  2. How does it feel to have two or more of the NPC on the field at the same time
  3. How does an Elite feel
  4. How does an Ultra feel
placid glacier
#

yknow I really thought the boombox would have more knockback stuff- ik thats more the torrents wheelhouse but still

placid glacier
#

so LL6, unsure about player comp except for 1 guaranteed Caliban

#

gonna use this IGF map for the blitz and the comp looks like

OPFOR

1x Spacer Prototype Seeder (Speed Deployer, Concussion Gun, Overclocked) 
2x Boombox (Power Chord) [Will largely be playing them almost base, Power Chord is honestly just a precaution incase someone jamms the Kensei]
1x Marine Prototype Breacher (Battering Ram, Overclocked)

Reinforcements

1x Boombox 
1x Marine Prototype Breacher
image.png
vagrant grotto
#

Knockback wouldn’t play as nicely with its desire to keep stuff in its radius after all

#

Plus, there’s the whole “is a sound wave actually gonna knock someone back or is it going to wash over them” and I leaned on the wash

ashen crown
#

I know the current version is probably set in stone, but weird idea for a Jury Rigged Substitute that plays off of the previous idea of “after scan characters have accuracy on saves prompted by Brigands”:
“While Impaired, characters have +1 accuracy on checks and saves prompted by the Brigand”

#

Maybe it’s a change I’ll make in my home games idk

vagrant grotto
#

It’s not set in stone

#

Part of me wondered about a “partial malus” that would give people +1 accuracy to checks and saves against the Brigand after it was scanned

#

But not attacks

ashen crown
#

See the argument folks have levied against that is that it makes the Prototype and Anomaly feel less special. However mechanically there aren’t any problems with it I can see, it’s simply a matter of Template Identity

vagrant grotto
#

Riffing on a theme is just riffing on a theme

#

It fits the identity since a lot of Brigand stuff is nasty saves

#

If you know their tricks it’s easier to avoid them

ashen crown
#

My idea is trying to riff of that and simply change the prompt for the accuracy bonus, as I think the effect makes perfect sense it’s just that the Scan bit has overlap

vagrant grotto
#

Sure, go off

#

I don’t like how weirdly specific it is but I hope it works for you

ashen crown
#

I might just try it out for the heck of it, I personally like it

ashen crown
#

But the logic behind it being Impair was “well the effect is kinda like reverse impair”

viscid ingot
#

I'mma wait for my next salary before buying PPG cause yesterday I had to funnel most of it into my car.

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
#

Thanka for the offer tho.

#

Besides, for now I'll be using mostly base rules while I test out my own homebrew.

Numbers and stuff might get scuffed in the process if I include your lads currently.

#

:3

placid glacier
placid glacier
#

Entire party has knockback

#

well- it'll be a stress test for the boomboxes

final violet
viscid ingot
final violet
#

I'm offering to buy it for you.

viscid ingot
#

Damn bruh, your financial situation THAT secure?

final violet
viscid ingot
#

Fair enough

vagrant grotto
#

I just cracked open the Hounds of Dula faction on Retrograde (by Imperatrix and DoubleSkullDice) and saw they had an NPC sprite for the Capacitor, and I'm cackling in excitement hahahaha

#

I'm like 90% sure it's a PPG capacitor, it's got a cannon that fits the part

flat urchin
#

oh @vagrant grotto how do you feel about people borrowing parts of your modular sitreps rules in their own supplements? i think they make me feel the same way about core sitreps as the rebake makes me feel about core NPCs haha
totally understand if you'd rather not, though

vagrant grotto
flat urchin
#

oh absolutely, thanks!

#

for clarity i want to port over the Interact action and the object handling rules, i think that's the minimum amount for achieving what i want

vagrant grotto
#

yeah go for it, they're just mechanics

#

But yeah I put them on my blog for a reason, so people could use and reference them without having to pay for PPG

#

Or at least, a version of them

#

Wondering if I should slap a demo sample of the sitreps + optional rules on itch

opaque crescent
#

Looking at running a playtest on either <t:1772305200:F> or <t:1772391600:F>, gauging interest

umbral sluice
ashen crown
#

Hm. Question- would it be worth it to make Feral Howl have friendly fire? Mechanically this would hurt the Howler, but I was thinking about how Enkidu's primal fury specifically has friendly fire so that's something I guess?

muted blaze
viscid ingot
muted blaze
#

Multiples of 4

#

Unless it's a multiple of 100

#

Unless unless it's a multiple of 400

vagrant grotto
#

I see zero reason to give the Howler a drawback like this at this point in time

ashen crown
#

Good call, yeah

vagrant grotto
#

Alright so: First time fielding baseline Howlers today, 2 of them at once. First one went in a little too early and got smacked for it, but managed to tank a combat drill hit and stay alive long enough with Howl to pull additional actions towards it. Second howler endured much better thanks to smarter Dataveil usage, but ultimately got dunked on by Chomolungma Gaming™ overheating it to exposed before getting Shock Clawed to death

#

They could’ve stood to hit more often but as it was, they were making a lot of overwatch attacks

#

Nobody was big enough to grapple them without regretting it so that wasn’t used

#

The first Formation deployed to my knowledge also happened today, with Prototype Assassins with Bleeding Edge

#

They vexed the Lycan considerably like a ninja hit squad

#

Chomolungma continues to be popular and thus my Novel Technology testing continues to look fairly normal

#

I think I wanna run some more “no Chomolungma” tests just to see if if they’re that impactful to how Prototype feels to play

#

Fetch variant of blitz needs a score reduction

#

Heck, blitz in general may need a score reduction

#

There was some voiced concern that the Howler’s OS values may be high for T1; looking forward to testing to verify

#

The way it accumulated heat with Feral Howl, and how it therefore risks Exposed, is a potent counterbalance to any overshield gained

#

I do wonder if it could stand to be Speed 5, though; 4 was decent, but definitely forced it to boost to initiate when it could’ve Moved + Lunged + Howled for a stronger turn

#

While my rolls weren’t the best for its Overwatch, I do note that folks seemed willing to eat the OW damage by moving away, quite often

granite saddle
#

Might have been the sitrep being so movement-taxing influencing things though

vagrant grotto
#

It was a pretty wide map tbf

muted blaze
#

Valk... A wide map???

#

What have you done to the real valk!

vagrant grotto
#

And I made it before I was on my small map craze

#

It might’ve been a little big for the target duration but eh

umbral sluice
#

in the end was it a partial victory at least?

vagrant grotto
#

It was, yes!

umbral sluice
#

nice

#

i wont lie, i'm not sure how to incorporate multiple stages of victory into games

vagrant grotto
#

I was enough of a nuisance to slow their roll

umbral sluice
#

but i assume thats a thing that comes with time

vagrant grotto
#

I do it by points as a stopgap

#

Like if you’ve collected half the dog tags, okay that’s better than none!

#

Still don’t have the rest but hey it’s something

#

You save part of the shipment, and the rest comes out of the pay for the job

umbral sluice
#

one I did recently had the sitrep as "recover the maguffin before cult does," where full success was they get the maguffin and stop the cult from leaving, and partial (the one they ended up with) was get the maguffin but the cult runs away and will be back

#

not sure is that the right kind of idea though

vagrant grotto
#

Success with consequence is good

#

Learn from blades in the dark

umbral sluice
#

the more I run sitreps with different outcomes the more I realise that I dislike deathmatches

#

because you just cant do any of this fun stuff with em

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
#

Mostly just the “success at a cost” thing for the action rolls

#

“You succeed but with less effect”
“You succeed but suffer harm”
“You succeed but lose a valuable resource”

#

Ideally these consequences are orthogonal to combat stats

#

Because you’ve already been spending combat stats to try to win

#

Actually yeah the lancer consequences for skill checks should work here too

umbral sluice
#

lancer has a lot of blades dna in the narrative part, i hear

vagrant grotto
#

It’s learned a fair bit from blades yeah

#

ANOTHER VICTORY: I nerfed the Mirage and nobody noticed until I pointed it out

#

it was still surprisingly complicated

#

But! I know that if I didn’t nerf it, it would’ve been much worse

muted blaze
#

Removed blip?

umbral sluice
#

with the amount I forget Blip, it may as well not be there lmao

umbral sluice
muted blaze
#

Blip is balanced around the fact everyone forgets it exists

vagrant grotto
#

But yeah, I trimmed the fat and still had quite a potent support

umbral sluice
#

genuinely an insanely powerful NPC if the GM knows how to use it well, ime

#

perhaps this is only so noticeable due to the lack of movement support in the base NPC kits, though

vagrant grotto
#

Turns out teleport is fucking strong

muted blaze
#

I'm curious to see an ultra support which refreshed blip every time it took a turn would look like

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Blip coulda been a vet trait and no one woulda noticed

umbral sluice
#

it would look like the GM getting a massive headache, and thats only by round 2

muted blaze
#

My opinion on reactions is "they're fine for yourself if you've setup mental fortifications to deal with those reactions specifically"

vagrant grotto
#

No fortifications are enough for Blip

muted blaze
#

This is a me thing and isn't my overall take

vagrant grotto
#

I am not sitting under the waterfall to internalize Blip hahahahaha

umbral sluice
#

its the fact I need to consider everything ever as a blip trigger that makes me forget it

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

Someone has targeted your token, consider using these reactions:

  • Thing not relevant here
  • Thing not relevant here
  • Directly detrimental reaction
muted blaze
#

"Someone has targeted GRUNT MIRAGE consider using the following reactions:

  • Blip"
#
  • Thing that doesn't help you, but would have helped the other bastard who just got annihilated
umbral sluice
#

clearly the solution is to make a macro that gives you the reaction popup whenever anyone does anything

vagrant grotto
#

anyway next playtest will probably be Boombox and VxK Bastion

umbral sluice
#

oh is this the double health one with FI as a quick action?

#

I am super interested to see that in action, bastions have been very hit or miss in my games

#

(coincidentally whenever they hit it was with deathcounter...)

vagrant grotto
#

I like Kai's Rebake, AND I wanna change them a bit more

opaque crescent
umbral sluice
#

yeah same, I used them for one session because they seem cool in theory and then they just remind you of things that arent useful

vagrant grotto
#

hm

#

thinking about Aegis

#

it can end its Defense Net as a Protocol

#

wondering if it should reposition/shimmy itself a little more often

#

like if there's nothing else in range

umbral sluice
#

what else is an Aegis doing on it's turns really

vagrant grotto
#

yeah exactly my point

umbral sluice
#

doesnt it have sensors 8 or something

vagrant grotto
#

part of me is wondering if it's a skill issue

umbral sluice
#

so cant even lock on

vagrant grotto
#

10 Sensors

#

8 range on gun

#

at least on Kai's Rebake

umbral sluice
#

ah yeah

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
#

its sensors scale weird in CRB (8/10/10)

#

but yeah no I know it's a common issue of sitting on hands while using an Aegis

muted blaze
#

Gun

#

Bang shoot

umbral sluice
#

They do well in defending artillery NPCs but then cant do much otjer than stabilising when theyre next to said NPCs

vagrant grotto
#

just wondering if that's a sign it should like, have another quick action or something

muted blaze
#

SCL

vagrant grotto
#

or hell, Bolster of all things

muted blaze
#

It's a "support" afterall

vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

aegis being labeled support is perhaps the biggest mislabel in crb

vagrant grotto
#

it's a hella rearguard

umbral sluice
#

where is the support there

vagrant grotto
#

the support is "keeping allies from dying and also immune to common debuffs"

#

like, I can see the vision

#

immune to Impaired is nutty

#

and like, Cleric-level stuff with the shield isn't outta line

#

so like, yeah, I see it

umbral sluice
#

put that way i kind of get the idea

#

it definitely blurs the line though

viscid ingot
#

It's probably accurate to label it a Defender/Support hybrid.

vagrant grotto
#

probably

#

but in a Rearguard sense, not a Tank sense

viscid ingot
#

Yeye

#

Aegis, as powerful as a defense with its shield it may be.

It ain't got the meat to last once PCs get close enough to throw hands with it.

vagrant grotto
#

it is immune to crits though, tbf

#

it's got a good HP statline, if a mediocre Evasion one

viscid ingot
#

While it may clap back with its weapon. (I swear, everyone both new and experienced are still surprised by how dangerous the weapon is.)

It won't last constant battle.

umbral sluice
#

and 2 armour goes a long way with PCs having a lot of smaller weapons

vagrant grotto
#

5/6/7 is decent damage scaling yeah

viscid ingot
#

Light Laser my ass.

#

That thing sets you on fire.

umbral sluice
#

its putting out Archer tier damage and some of it is burn too

viscid ingot
#

Players both Newbie and Experienced in my games are always shocked and scared when the Aegis shoots its gun and it hits.

#

Aegis with Ring of Fire is basically a discount Pyro except the Firewall is a bubble.

muted blaze
#

Aegissss are a either like... Horrifically effective or kinda meaningless

#

Just depends if the PCs use gun or stab

#

Alas, so is every NPC

viscid ingot
#

True but Aegis almost always surprises players with its gun.

#

I've honestly lost track of how many players I've terrorized with the "Definitely not a Light Laser".

vagrant grotto
#

but yeah I think the only things I'd touch in my VxK NPC mix is:

  • Bastion FI + HP
  • Bombard Cluster Munitions removed + maybe a buff to the baseline gun to compensate
  • Mirage loses Blip and 1 target on Glitch Scanners
  • Anything with 2 speed gets bumped to 3 speed
  • Priest Sanctuary works more like False Idol/D&D Sanctuary
  • Witch Tear Down heat triggers at end of target's next turn instead of Witch's Start of Next turn
viscid ingot
#

I'd offer my own NPC rework lcp but I think you'd prefer to keep things mechanically simple/easy-to-understand for now.

vagrant grotto
#

like lemme make it clear, those items are nothing compared to what I'd be griping about if Kai's Rebakes didn't exist

#

heck, all of those issues are issues I have with CRB anyway

viscid ingot
#

You might gripe a lot about my shenanigans then. xD

vagrant grotto
#

I have to run these little monsters all the dang time, I just want them to work well lol

#

and kept simple

viscid ingot
#

Fair fair.

umbral sluice
viscid ingot
#

It's how I feel about +Haul too. I'm trying to get them all to play nice.

vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

oh right that

vagrant grotto
#

like, I'd rather spread Tear Down around than slam a guy

umbral sluice
#

its marginally different for normal witches but elites arent busted if back to back activated now, so probably good

viscid ingot
#

But yeah. Also Valk, for me I never expected I'd grow NPC+Haul to what it currently is.

Did you expect your PPG to grow to this point?

vagrant grotto
#

I guess there's something to be said for encouraging "PC go early" pressure

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
#

Same.

vagrant grotto
#

this was originally 8 NPCs + my Pirate "rework" and a handful of houserules

viscid ingot
#

I initially started +Haul because of my gripes with Bastion not having Scaling HP. AnnieSob

vagrant grotto
#

then I "released" v1 and wound up adding another 4 brand new NPCs to it

#

then I made the Anomaly...... and then later decided to make my "Loading Ronin" notes into the Kensei

viscid ingot
#

Now it is a full on "Expansion+Overhaul" of the CRB NPCs and Templates with a few new added Templates.

vagrant grotto
#

then came the Prototype.... and Formation.... and the sitreps

#

and then I finally decided enough was enough and added 2 more NPCs and advice on how to run the rest

viscid ingot
vagrant grotto
#

15 NPCs is a nice number

viscid ingot
#

At least you gotta deal with only 15.

vagrant grotto
#

I have zero ideas on a sixteenth, and in fact have more ideas for stuff that should NOT be added to this project

opaque crescent
#

but sixteen is four squared

#

and sixteen is basically 18

#

and 18 is basically 20

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
#

I gotta deal with 30+ NPCs and all Templates (as well as send an Email to Massif for permissions)

vagrant grotto
#

bid'oof

viscid ingot
#

I've been at least told by players that the NPCs are all uniquely interactive and fun to plan around. Despite the slightly more complex mechanics.

So I call that a success.

vagrant grotto
#

excellent, happy for you then

viscid ingot
#

Human+, Squad+, and Monstrosity+ now don't feel like afterthoughts.

#

Though I gotta ask, which one of the PPG NPCs has a special place in your collection?

vagrant grotto
#

I love all my children equally

viscid ingot
#

Press X to doubt.

vagrant grotto
#

But I love Mesmerist more equally than the rest

umbral sluice
#

I wouldve guessed Kensei but I agree Mesmerist is great

viscid ingot
#

Ronin+ is my baby.

I basically turned them into a Dynasty Warriors/Samurai Warriors NPC.

vagrant grotto
#

Oh I loved working on Kensei, don't get me wrong

but Mesmerist is the Swordmage NPC for me, and that shit will always have a special place in my heart

viscid ingot
#

Swordmage archetype do be cool as shit.

vagrant grotto
#

Zealot's a close second

#

that's the one that convinced me I could do this thing

viscid ingot
#

My lads in the running are
Ronin+
Assault+
Bastion+

vagrant grotto
#

I dreamt up the Zealot, bounced it off #homebrew-design , got some validation, and decided to pull the rest of my NPC design notes up and make them real

viscid ingot
#

When I first ran my modified Bastion+ in a few games. Most players agreed that it felt better as a "Wall" type NPC than the CRB.

Then my brain started spiraling and I never stopped. kek

ashen crown
viscid ingot
placid glacier
#

Player Comp: Caliban, Viceroy, Iskander, DD288 Vlad

Kensei Mortal Draw

  • Had the Kensei use the special big cone in first round so that the players wouldn't be caught off guard by it
  • I telegraphed the Kensei having a special version of the sword draw with the suggested phrasing (glowing with a red aura) but players noted that they glossed over it, might have been an issue on my part for not drawing more attention to it being different than normal
  • Otherwise, players thought that the attack itself was fine and had enough innate counterplay

Boombox

  • Despite kitting them with Power Chord, I played them pretty much base kit
  • Boomboxes were fighting an uphill battle by having the entire party able to knock them around, but despite that they still properly detered the Caliban and Vlad from coming too close
  • I thought they worked well deployed in pairs as a 'tarpit' npc to slow player advance

Prototype Overclocked

  • Not much to say again, heat on attack didn't come up too much and players thought that playing around the danger zone enemies felt fine, I will solidly move on to other optionals for Prototype lol
#

@vagrant grotto

vagrant grotto
#

Esp want to know how you feel about Mortal Draw compared to other ultra options that do a similar thing

placid glacier
#

As the DM, Mortal Draw feels like its in a good spot, the heat requirement may leave not enough wiggle room if it gets hacked or heatgunned before it throws out its big attack, but thats for another GM to test I guess. For how I used it, it felt like it has just enough drawbacks that I can't throw it out every turn, only every other turn.

In comparison to things like the Harbinger Rockets or Hellfire Projector, I feel like it fills that niche of "Big AoE Ultra thing to punish players grouping up" well

I wasn't able to use waveform nexus all too much, but soundproof was very helpful with survivability against this specific comp, and I felt like it filled the role of "tarpit that slows and hinders the players" well

#

of note, maybe Base Drop should be an AGI save instead? Mostly because whenever I had a chance to pick the optional, even though prone would have been a useful slowing deterrent, I would go with Jam Sesh and thinking on it, would make the same choice nine times out of ten unless I was specifically running into an agi meme maxing like. Nelson or Atlas or something

#

I feel like most player builds have at minimum 2, and more likely 4 points into Hull

vagrant grotto
#

Noted noted

#

Thank you!

placid glacier
#

yeye np! 👍

#

if I ever get a chance to run Boomboxes again, I may do so paired with Hornets just to try and leverage the save failing as much as possible

viscid ingot
#

Quick question for ya Valk when you have tiem to answer.

When testing PPG stuff. Wpuld you rather it be tested with CRB and/or Rebaked with PPG homebrew rules or it is fine to use whatever?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Ya know I just remembered that Mortal Draw kinda got started from me suggesting "What if Ultra Kensei got extra bonus if it activate last in round?"

... no I'm not taking credit for any of this, god no this is all Valk. But I do feel very happy seeing things I suggested get incorporated into other people's work in some small way -v-

viscid ingot
muted blaze
vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
#

-and after I clean up a lot of the wording to try and simplify as much as I can.

vagrant grotto
#

Even a plaintext file/gdoc is helpful

#

Like how Kai did the draft rebakes

viscid ingot
#

Yeye, but I'll still need to make it presentable (readable) to preserve your and my sanity. Mechanic building is relatively simple, it's actually making it easily understandable that is the hard part.

#

Ya know?

opaque crescent
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Good news! If all goes well, I’ll be able to test out Ghosts, Knights, Mesmerists, and Torrents. Why?

My Players decided to fight the KTB

vagrant grotto
#

I've added yet another optional rule that changes difficult terrain to only affect voluntary movement

flat urchin
#

huh, i always thought it worked like that

vagrant grotto
#

technically, it doesn't

#

All movement through difficult terrain is at half speed – each space of difficult terrain they move into is equivalent to two spaces of movement.

#

Lancer, p. 62

flat urchin
#

interesting

vagrant grotto
#

technically all movement includes involuntary movement, to my chagrin

#

so, I do this so controllers can fuck around with difficult terrain

steel apex
#

It's a rule that a lot of tables probably overlook, and I would guess (in the way I try to divine tom's intent by putting myself in his shoes) that if it exists on purpose, it's to keep people from doing "I'll ferrous lash my buddy over the difficult terrain" stuff. That said, I'm not sure how much of a problem that sort of thing really IS, so making it a blanket rule seems fine

#

if anything it lends more utility to the ferrous lashes of the world

vagrant grotto
#

Hm. That made me realize that my change to Puppet System to provoking Reactions means that allied characters don’t provoke reactions when they move from this

Eh, I’m okay with it. I may make a clause that keeps puppet system from moving slowed or immobilized characters though

tame wharf
vagrant grotto
#

I might shuffle some effects around tbf, it’s not set in stone

#

At the end of the day though I think a lot of Lancer Playerside systems strongly undervalue forced movement

dapper goblet
#

Puppet systems and ferrous lash are very funky to me in comparison to each other.

granite saddle
muted blaze
ashen crown
#

There’s also the fact that Ferrous Lash has the prone element, is a set range rather than relying on sensors, and can knock targets prone if they’re hostile.

vagrant grotto
#

The flexibility offered by HOROS1 is power that should be offset by the potency of the individual actions

ashen crown
#

Although… one thing I’m noticing- Ophidian Trek, compared to Ferrous Lash and Puppet Systems, is a part of an LL2 system rather than an LL1 system, restricts the movement to just moving towards the user, and its exact movement cannot be predicted. In exchange, it’s a teleport and has a chance (not a guarantee) of moving the target 7 spaces, with the flip side being that it has a chance to only move them 2 spaces…

… this is a very tangential topic, of me noticing how most force move systems typically have a quirk or additional upside, but Ophidian Trek seems to have more restrictions and downsides than upsides

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

But yeah if you want to move things really well then grab Black Witch 1, it’s a cool tool

#

If you want some variety, grab HOROS1

ashen crown
#

And it comes with fold space so same point you have with puppet systems and flexibility

#

I personally think the Slow + Immobilize causing Puppet System Immunity is more significant than the reaction element simply because a lot of control effects key off of that, so in certain builds there can be negative synergy. I don’t necessarily mean this as a bad thing- if anything I think it’s more interesting + gives “go prone” a way to make you immune to puppet systems and therefore have counterplay + makes the reaction trigger element feel like it has a reasonable restriction

muted blaze
#

For the reactions part... It's a very easy and guaranteed way to get off 2 skirmishes in a turn alongside a control option

umbral sluice
#

puppetwatch is like, ugh

#

it gives me a bad taste in my mouth

#

Horos 1 could be only one of the two options and it would still be in the top 3 invade systems

#

when you compare to ferrous lash, it really deserves to lose some power in exchange for the value you get out of having two things there

#

imo, that is

hushed anchor
#

This stuff looks cool longrim

vagrant grotto
#

Thank you! Hope it's useful to you!

hushed anchor
#

I havent bought it but im tempted
not sure I want to overwhelm my players with a bunch of new NPC options considering they're all new to the game.

vagrant grotto
#

well, at risk of marketing myself here, but if they're new to the game then every NPC you use will be new to them. Whether an Assault or a Capacitor

#

that said, use what you feel comfy with using

#

introducing new NPCs will be it's own issue regardless of source, so it's best you as GM feel comfortable about what you're using

hushed anchor
#

except sentinel
they are familiar with sentinels
(the running joke is that i've included at least 1 sentinel in every combat so far and their contributions essentially boil down to missing all their attacks or just immediately dying)

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

I'll always recommend making some faction rosters to get some familiarity with certain NPCs

Gordian Blade
Supercharge Your Lancer Campaign with Faction Rosters

One of the best decisions I made when I ran my last Lancer campaign was putting together a faction roster. Instead of making new bespoke NPCs for every single combat, I made a list of 9 NPC "builds" that I always drew from when putting together a combat against forces

ashen crown
#

Anyway, my plan for the Knight:

  1. Compelled Duel my Zheng Player
  2. Run TF away
#

The real big choice I’m gonna be making with the Knight is “do I take advantage of my the fact that my Zheng player cannot possibly succeed on a Duel save and just drag him away from everything, or do I take advantage of the start of turn stun to let his team gank ‘em?”

#

Both are very fun

#

I suppose it’ll depend on the sitrep

#

Another fun thing I realized about the Knight: the Goliath, a comparable type of Defender with Crush Targeting, has no armor and therefore makes it so that even if they make Autogunners or Aux Slingers target them, they’ll still take as much damage as anyone.

The Knight has no such weaknesses :)

hushed anchor
vagrant grotto
#

now that I've torpedoed my goodwill, time to start blogging about my albatross campaign framework lol

hushed anchor
#

Maxwell’s demon Enkidu:

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

Yeah that’s my main issue with that proposal

dusk zodiac
#

If I was a crazy person I would just give all players Puppet Siystems default

#

it's that centralizing for hacker builds

steel apex
#

I'm the one who made that proposal and a lot of my "lancer hacks" posit a sort of "shortest distance approach" to things, that is rather than extensive overhauls I'd be more inclined to make lesser changes

#

My stance on the proposal is that Horos 1 has two really good choices in one option, so breaking it up across two options serves to make committing to both more of a tax, it's now 4 SP and two levels to get both, that isn't an insurmountable barrier but it's a lot better than 2 SP and one level

#

The other end of this, though, is that I do sort of agree with valk that I don't think it's quite enough and I actually think part of the issue (which we've had big discussions about elsewhere) is specifically that puppet systems does too much

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mainly, as time has gone on, I feel like "use hacks on allies" is kind of vestigial and 90% of it is just "use puppet systems on allies" and I actually think that it's an unnecessary gilding of the lily that puppet systems does force movement on hostiles AND procs overwatch AND moves allies

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so to be perfectly honest, I think as a more top-down change to lancer in general, I would be inclined to eject the whole "you can use invades on allies" bit from the game

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and therefore, consequently, remove the ability for puppet systems to be an allied movement facilitator on top of anything else

vagrant grotto
steel apex
#

if you want "tech action that helps someone move," the hook for that exists in bolster and you can make systems that plug into that if you want

vagrant grotto
steel apex
#

I'd be more copacetic to "allied invade" shenanigans if it wasn't so incredibly niche

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most invades have no real reason to be used on allies, then occasionally you do and it's almost always some sort of movement based thing

vagrant grotto
#

… Bolster-tagged tech action that lets your ally Overwatch something… 🤔

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Lazylord energy

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Do a mix and match on HOROS 1 and Neurospike for 1 Bolster + 1 Invade option

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“Gain the Puppet System option for Bolster and Eject Power Cores option for Invade”

“Gain the Mirage option for Bolster and Shrike Code option for Invade”

steel apex
vagrant grotto
#

Was looking at the split options as if they were directly augmenting the CRB, not any of my house rules

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

I get reallocating them to Bolster as an option, but enough of these invade options are good on both Allies and enemies that that doesn’t really feel like a great solution either

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I suppose the “Bolster + Invade” package idea is fairly functional as a workaround and acts as a sort of mirror to Grenade+Mine systems, which is something

hushed anchor
#

Banish on enkidu buddy :)

granite saddle
ashen crown
#

Like out of all 16 of the invade options in the CRB, 8 of them are useful on both Allies and enemies. Long Rim then tips that into 9 out of 20 so it’s no longer 50% but that’s still a sizeable amount

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(If you’re curious, the useful options are Puppet Systems, Dimensional Emblems, Celestial Shackles, Beckon, Summon, Logic Bomb, Ophidian Trek, Fold Space, and Eject Slag)

steel apex
#

I mean here's the thing, I also dislike "the avenger can just shoot one of their own dudes" or "the witch can use predatory logic on an ally"

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I'm not a big fan of baselining blurring the lines between hostile and allied tech for a number of reasons, among them being that it's often overlooked until you explain it, the fact that it leads to knock-on effects like puppet systems, and in particular the fact that a lot of these allied hack type things are just more ways to end-run around movement, a thing I think has been crept in lancer to an extent that I don't particularly care for it

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add this to the fact that bolster is largely unused and overlooked until it had a talent made for it and frankly I don't really care what gets sacrificed on the altar imo

ashen crown
#

Fair enough

steel apex
#

if you want the kobold to have a cool thing that ejects slag around allies great, give them that thing

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I'm not opposed to that

#

what I dislike is cramming it all together into the Invade system keyword

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I also dislike "I'll grapple my ally and move them" for an idea of where my broader thoughts lie on this

ashen crown
#

Which Ultra trait do y’all think reflects a Fortune Teller better: Orbital Eye or Ontolotactical Array?

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Actually nah considering the 3rd party NPC in play I’ll go for Orbital Eye (should the context call for it)

frosty karma
#

was very skeptical when i first take a look cuz i love the mechanics but this just straight up no dif the original imo

ashen crown
frosty karma
steel apex
#

ehhhhhhh, on the one hand I don't dislike 1/scene restrictions, but with eject power cores already being 1/scene/character, I think the bigger issue really is (imo) letting it work on allies

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if puppet systems was hostile only it would be perfectly fine even as a level 1 dip

frosty karma
#

I do believe it's the best simple solution but i do have a soft spot for allies invade...

What do you think about this?

When you INVADE, you mount a direct electronic attack against a target. To INVADE, make a tech attack against a character within SENSORS and line of sight. On a success, your target takes 2 heat and you choose one of the INVASION options available to you. FRAGMENT SIGNAL is available to all characters, and additional options are granted by certain systems and equipment with the INVADE tag. You can also INVADE willing allied characters to create certain effects. If your target is willing and allied, you are automatically successful, it doesn’t count as an attack, and your target doesn’t take any heat.

ashen crown
#

I think that is verbatim what Kai is suggesting

frosty karma
#

ooh

steel apex
#

Broadly speaking, I think that blurring the lines between hostile and allied stuff is a thing that I increasingly find tends to either be overlooked by players and you have to point it out to them (a lot of people don't realize allies can be Invaded at first, then it causes confusion with "so can I do the same with NPCs without needing an attack roll?" and you have to explain that) or it creates a lot of jank and requires everything in that bucket to have to be designed/tested around the prospect of either being used on enemies OR allies

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I know some people feel that finding and exploiting this stuff is the quintessential gaming experience, personally I'm less enthused with it

#

This is, to clarify even more, my own personal thoughts on things and not some sort of objective truth or whatever

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valk also isn't obliged to abide by any of this for their own hacks

vagrant grotto
#

I see the merit in this approach though, and it definitely has me thinking about Bolster options which I find intriguing

tame wharf
#

@vagrant grotto question: is the overflow of heat that becomes Energy when your at heatcap supposed to take Exposed into account?

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because its doing so on the module

vagrant grotto
#

I go over an example flow in the FAQ

tame wharf
#

is that in the pdf?

vagrant grotto
#

yup

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Appendix B

tame wharf
#

cool, appreciated

steel apex
#

makes sense

sudden cosmos
#

What'd make a good buddy for an ultra veteran howler? So far I've got a commander support and a formation of assassins

vagrant grotto
#

lemme think

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Barricade maybe

sudden cosmos
#

part of me wants to make it a multistructure artillery like a napalm that the party will either have to commit to fighting (which means less time before the howler does its party trick), but idk if that's gonna, like

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do anything

vagrant grotto
#

Like Kai's rebaked Barricade w/ Drag Down baseline

sudden cosmos
#

aforementioned party trick

image.png
vagrant grotto
#

oh, nvm it's obvious

#

drop an Occultist down

#

now they gotta pick between shooting the drones or shooting the Howler

sudden cosmos
#

I've been mulling over if the faction would have occultists in their lineup

vagrant grotto
#

ah, if it doesn't fit the narrative then nevermind

sudden cosmos
#

It's not that it doesn't. It's that I'm not sure if they do or don't atm

vagrant grotto
#

I'm leaning towards a controller regardless

sudden cosmos
#

but if it's mechanically nifty, maybe it's worth it

vagrant grotto
#

Hive may just be the ticket, honestly

sudden cosmos
#

The faction would be more inclined to an occultist than a hive

#

I may give that a spin if I don't just decide to go napalm

vagrant grotto
#

hm. Napalm with like, grenade or the firefly drone could be nifty control

ashen crown
# sudden cosmos What'd make a good buddy for an ultra veteran howler? So far I've got a commande...

I think any NPC that can ensure enemies are forced to stay near the Howler and enemies that make it harder to hit the Howler. Archers are good for this as an easy choice, but a Hive could be especially nasty. A Lock/Hold Hornet is also a bit of a cheat option imo- the Jam combined with Howl could be devastating.

You could also use a Priest to help the Howler tank the hits it soaks up while also being able to pay back the pain tenfold via Investiture. An Aegis could also benefit from taking hold of the spaces the Howler seizes.

A Rainmaker could also act as a pseudo-controller that knocks characters near the Howler and places Javelins/Skyhammers in places that would require the PCs to engage the Howler to avoid. An Operator could also benefit from the fire that would be drawn to the Howler in order to skirmish better.

vagrant grotto
#

I only didn't mention Archer because there's already high damage in this fight

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but then again, if it fits the fiction, roll with it

ashen crown
#

Archer imo feels like a cheat option, but it does fit scarily well

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If I were to pick a CRB controller, I’d pick Hive. If I were to pick a Rebake controller I’d pick Slingshot-Lock/Hold Hornet

static kernel
#

@vagrant grotto regarding the Prototype's firewall molt - since the hologram doesn't have a heatcap, wouldn't it take the heat from an invade as energy damage and immediately die?

vagrant grotto
#

Invade explicitly targets characters, like Ram and grapple do

static kernel
#

Oh, you're not redirecting the target, you're explicitly negating the effect altogether. I see

vagrant grotto
#

Exactly, and saving it for later

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It just delays the effects until it’s destroyed

sudden cosmos
#

Sure, there's damage, but it's not like they're full-on archers

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And they can all use the covering fire area if I'm understanding formations correctly

vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
#

That was also what I expected

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The issue with archers would be that they're kinda chunky and multiples being present for multiple reactions would be a lot of damage

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But being able to pick an angle of attack for one reaction and them being fragile works pretty well in this context

ashen crown
#

Weird take: Ghost makes a half decent Lich purely because Paradox State is probably the strongest Soul Vessel Analogue among PPG and 1st party NPCs, and its slipperiness + fragility + support nature makes it feel kinda Lich-y

tame wharf
#

@vagrant grotto using Tooltip Alt, how do I have partial info revealed on unscanned characters such as heat and HP?

vagrant grotto
tame wharf
#

the config of Tooltip Alt or of something else?

vagrant grotto
#

You will need to go into the tooltip configs for TTA and change them

#

You may be able to just copy/paste the GM config for HP and Heat Respectively into the player config in this case

tame wharf
#

👍

sudden cosmos
#

Silly question. Is Zeal from Zealot tagged as overshield because it could possibly give overshield event though it doesn't do so on its own?

vagrant grotto
#

To the bug tracker

sudden cosmos
#

My pendantry strikes again

vagrant grotto
#

No good catch

vagrant grotto
#

Like legit this was just a tag I outright overlooked, from back when I kept changing how Zeal worked

sudden cosmos
#

I figured that was the case, mostly because I was looking at zeal like "wait, didn't this give OS baseline?"

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Probably because it did at one point

vagrant grotto
#

It did! Then it got moved to Fanatical Charge instead

sudden cosmos
#

A certain wallflower fight is getting a zealot-demolisher buddy duo in my next run so I was doing homework

vagrant grotto
#

I’m currently combing through the pdf for other OS tag mismatches

sudden cosmos
#

Demolisher? Slow? Incorrect.

vagrant grotto
#

Found 3 cases where I missed adding the OS tag

vagrant grotto
# 
## Xenoglossary
When at least one character with this template is on the battlefield, roll 1d20 at the start each round and record the result. Each round, one character with this template may replace the result of any 1d20 roll made by a character in Sensors (including themselves) with the recorded result. This choice must be declared before the roll.
#

Challenge: Don’t give the KTB houses faction templates with actionable lore (Difficulty: IMPOSSIBLE)

ashen crown
#

Oh I thought this was a trait for your generic faction template

vagrant grotto
#

It is

ashen crown
#

Oh okay

vagrant grotto
#

I’m saying that it’s a slippery slope for me to add lore-compliant factions that’s all

ashen crown
#

I mean it’s only one trait per yeah maybe just leave it at the Xenoglossary. Or hell just call it “Starseer” or something

vagrant grotto
#

Have you seen my outline

ashen crown
#

Imma be real no

vagrant grotto
#

Faction Name

Tier

1-sentence lore blurb

Mission

Each faction has an overarching, long-term goal that drives their actions. Describe that here, followed by a handful of short-term goals. During each Downtime, select 1 goal then roll 1d6, adding 1 for each relevant Asset.

If the action is affects or is opposed by another faction, subtract 1 from the roll for each of that faction’s relevant Assets. On a final result of 4-5, mark 1 segment of that goal. On 6 or higher, mark 2 segments. Once a goal is reached, add a new Asset related to that goal. Additionally, each time a faction fills a goal’s segment, grant 1 NPC in their roster a new optional feature.

• Sub goal 1 [ ][ ][ ]
• Sub goal 2 [ ][ ][ ][ ]
• Sub goal 3 [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Assets

• Asset 1
• Asset 2
• Asset 3

Contact

NPC, with occupation, individual motivation, and mannerism

Opposing Faction(s)

• Faction most likely to interfere

Faction Feature

Feature Name
Feature tags
Feature effect

Roster (Table)

|Name|Role|Class & Templates|Optional Features|
—————————
|Cursemonger Celebrant|Support|Cursemonger Priest|Sanctuary, Fractal Assault|

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This is the slope

#

I have 48 traits and counting

#

Some may get cut

#

That said: imagine a supplement with literally 50+ factions, fleshed out with concrete goals, a unifying feature, and a short roster

#

That would be a literal dream for me as a GM

#

Like a literal trove of gameable content

viscid ingot
#

Right, Valk. I have a question about PPG Structure and Stress Rules change.

Structure change is easy enough to grasp, the choice between Dazed and System Trauma is pretty novel.

But I need clarification on PPG Stress. Is this where you BOTH get Exposed and Overheat or you choose one or the other?

Noticing how this is worded, this kinda begins to crawl into territory where builds that rely on intentionally overheating themselves are rendered powerless.

I'd like to know if that is accurate or you've altered it.

vagrant grotto
#

And I’m gonna push back against “rendered powerless” here

#

Overheating is supposed to be a bad thing

#

That said, I did make a houserule for Reactor Stabilizer on Sherman, that makes you immune to the spillover heat damage instead of the RAW effect

#

@granite saddle built an Adaptive Reactor Displacer Swallowtail with this take on Reactor Stabilizer, and could get some decent mileage out of it

#

In any case, you can use one option and not the other if you want

#

I’m not your dad

viscid ingot
#

Fair fair.

#

Ok, also if I got things correct. When you stress in PPG, does the Heatcap spillover still and a Stress is lost or did I misunderstand that part?

vagrant grotto
#

You have 1 stress like a normal NPC

#

When you overheat you get Exposed and Overheated and take spillover heat as damage

viscid ingot
#

Ahhh I see.

#

So it is simply left at Max Heatcap and any extra heat is treated as spillover Energy Damage.

vagrant grotto
#

Yup yup

#

The FAQ has a breakdown of how spillover heat works