Prototype Pattern Groups

[placid glacier]

is the most recent testing list still up to date?

[opaque crescent]

checking interesting for playtest on <t:1767466800:F> (or sunday if better for people)

[umbral sluice]

sadly i have lancer on the saturday and mork borg on the sunday

[muted blaze]

"ah, it's Jan of the new year so it must be a decent way away"

https://tenor.com/view/falling-falling-down-stairs-stairs-meme-funny-gif-21363126

[umbral sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/aging-getting-old-gif-9803364

[opaque crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/zack-d-films-3d-animation-rapid-aging-getting-old-death-gif-883429505417596105

[vagrant grotto]

Mostly, yes. Hatchet’s rocket bola is now good and tested, its reactions just need some testing.

[umbral sluice]

the void husks were too much for my poor ultra hatchet

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah sure I could be down, put me on the waitlist please

[muted blaze]

Did the ultra hatchet do any ultra kill Parry's?

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah no Hatchet was hosed by Slow fields

[umbral sluice]

it had Reckless Dive, Rocket Bola and Hurricane of Steel as optionals

[muted blaze]

😭

[umbral sluice]

i think it got reckless dive off never bc it was almost always slowed

[opaque crescent]

hey it used reckless dive

[muted blaze]

If I'm running a hatchet, assume it has return to sender because I just find it too funny

[opaque crescent]

it just didn't go anywhere

[umbral sluice]

and the sitrep was over before it could get the second part of Hurricane off bc 8 speed caliban

granted it could have went differently had the axe connected but oh well

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah, Neurospike discouraged it from using it earlier

If Bola hit with Hurricane then yeah it would’ve been a different story

[umbral sluice]

kind of user error on my part there, for some reason i didnt think you could mix and match the weapons for hurricane

but i do think that's a very good option to have there

[vagrant grotto]

Prototype Ultra Hatchet with Hurricane of Steel and Demolisher Earthshaker

[umbral sluice]

oh god that's a thrown isnt it

[vagrant grotto]

Sure is haha

[muted blaze]

Oops

all destroyed terrain

It however doesn't leave a thrown weapon in the floor

[umbral sluice]

oops, blocks everywhere

[muted blaze]

throws rock at you
throws rock at you
throws rock at you
throws rock at you
throws rock at you

[opaque crescent]

does it ever say it doesn't? It says it doesn't need to be retrieved, but i don't think it says it doesn't leave something there

[tame wharf]

I may be able to depending on how long it usually goes for

[opaque crescent]

3-5 hours

dependant on slop and probably including feedback

[tame wharf]

Then nah, I'm GMing at 5

[umbral sluice]

is the hammer in fuckin. quantum superposition

[muted blaze]

I'd say "doesn't need to be retrieved" implies it doesn't leave a weapon. As the only purpose of a thrown weapon is to be retrieved as nothing interacts with those mechanics... And then the hatchet appears

[opaque crescent]

where did all the extra axes come from in hurricane of steel?

[umbral sluice]

good question

[vagrant grotto]

I’m ruling “doesn’t need to be retrieved” means that it can be retrieved, optionally, at my tables

[opaque crescent]

hammers

[umbral sluice]

hammers

[vagrant grotto]

Flash printing, of course

[muted blaze]

Like, end of day. It's a homebrew Vs homebrew interaction. The GM has combined two things so it's on them to discern how it interacts

[vagrant grotto]

I like the quantum argument with the teleportation though

[vagrant grotto]

Yup absolutely

In this case it’s a very intentional combination

Also so far so good on Novel Technology

[umbral sluice]

I'm ngl i forget rebake is homebrew sometimes

[vagrant grotto]

It encourages some Scans or otherwise finding a way to brute force it, and I’m alright with that

[umbral sluice]

Xnopyt Potato on the other hand...

have you decided what's happening to that one yet

[vagrant grotto]

That’s gonna be a full tech limited 1 at best and 1/scene at worst

[muted blaze]

Is xnopyt potato too much?

[vagrant grotto]

Though tbf like, point of Prototype is that you can have several of them of the same type…

[vagrant grotto]

So hey you know my whole reason for reworking Zheng core power

[umbral sluice]

for context, when i used it, Valk's immediate reaction was "Why did i make this recharge 5???"

[muted blaze]

Ah

[vagrant grotto]

You can hold up Xnopyt Potato to my face and call me a hypocrite

[muted blaze]

Pause the game as a quick action?

[umbral sluice]

more or less

it could have gone even longer had the potato not been thrown to a grunt

[vagrant grotto]

I think it actually is better as an Anomaly feature

[umbral sluice]

i think we got 5 or so bounces

[vagrant grotto]

I may steal 1 from Anomaly instead and swap them around

[muted blaze]

Tracks

How to play xnopyt potato:

Prototype ultra throws it at player who doesn't want to be shredded
Player throws it back
Decimate 3 formations with heat
Oopsie, 12+ heat

[muted blaze]

They're just cool like that

[vagrant grotto]

It’s the same axe just borrowed from different points in the future

[umbral sluice]

it's like that bit of the rogue with 20 daggers hidden in unexpected places but in mech form

[vagrant grotto]

You could say they’ve hidden blades in the dark

[tame wharf]

D&D reference!

[umbral sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[tame wharf]

[vagrant grotto]

Okay I just thought of something and need to think about it: Formation Bastion and Friendly Interdiction

[muted blaze]

What's wrong with it?

[vagrant grotto]

Nothing

It’d be cool af

Make a big continuous wall of Resistance that you can stay adjacent to

[muted blaze]

Hmmm

The grunt states it cannnot be elite, veteran or ultra

The formation does not

Veteran Formation

(They still have 1HP. But they all have feign death)

[muted blaze]

Wait so, it's a protocol. Can ALL of the formation take the same protocol?

Eh I suppos

Ooh that reminds me, IDK if you ever got feedback on the goblin from my playtest

[opaque crescent]

i sent that over on the day. yeah

[muted blaze]

Ah sick

[umbral sluice]

did we ever get confirmation if the osiris die ticking up on both the goblin's and the attached ally's turn was intended?

[muted blaze]

And the double TSS1 suplex

[vagrant grotto]

Its the clause where a lasting effect affects all of them

[muted blaze]

One takes them, all of them select an adjacent ally or just ONE ally adjacent to any of them?

[vagrant grotto]

It was not originally intended but I’m happy to let it rock for now

[vagrant grotto]

The acting one activates FI, selecting an ally adjacent to itself. As long as the ally stays adjacent to any of the formations bodies, it should maintain FI

[muted blaze]

Ah

I see

[vagrant grotto]

I think that’s how it should work

[umbral sluice]

awesome

I assume total strength suite 2 going off on both the ally and goblin's turns is also intended?

[tame wharf]

OH RIGHT I WANTED TO SAY

VALK

[vagrant grotto]

It’s in the same boat

[tame wharf]

THANK YOU FOR NOT MAKING OSIRIS A MASSIVE BLOCK OF TEXT ANYMORE

IT LOOKS REALLY GOOD

[vagrant grotto]

Thank you! I hope it plays well for other tables

[tame wharf]

I like it as a dice so much more then just

P A R A G R A P H

[vagrant grotto]

Tbf it’s still a lot of words

[muted blaze]

I gave the double tickup osiris osiris more thought and am really not a fan. Players on the time mentioned they liked it and end of day "it's a core power it should feel powerful" but I'm not a fan of the potential for off turn tech actions (prepare, say) leading to strange double ticking up Osiris in a round. And for the core double ticking it up, It feels odd but I'm personally not a fan of basically making your core power to make someone elses "optimal turn" to be play your game if that makes sense. And the pro synergy between core power and licence is cool but I feel personally it may be too strong potentially, where the core power is good as is but made INCREDIBLY GOOD if Osiris is involved

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah that’s fair

[muted blaze]

This is however, diluted with time from the day the feedback was given

[umbral sluice]

i dont think the off turn prepare thing is possible, dont you need to be able to take the action when you prepare it?

oh wait

i see how you could maybe

[muted blaze]

Free actions is the easiest avenue

But potentially still

[vagrant grotto]

Nah I’ll be real that my Symbiosis rework is undercooked

Goblin rework overall is undercooked

If you wanna use base goblin instead I won’t stop yall

[muted blaze]

Eh, I'm still on hiatus from my main campaign :P

And my next playtest is probs not gonna use any of your house rules... This isn't being rude or anything but purely because I want to test how mine work in a close to core experience 😛

[vagrant grotto]

It’s not rude to not use my stuff lol

Use whatever floats your goat

Take as much piecemeal as you like

[sudden cosmos]

I can Saturday

[vagrant grotto]

Goblin thought: What if Symbiosis wasn’t an “attach to an ally” effect, but instead let you make tech attacks through the sensors of your last tech-attacked target 🤔

Just distilling some thoughts from conversations in #mech-hangar

[muted blaze]

Throw a proxy to latch onto an ally?

[dapper goblet]

Unless youre cutting goblins sensors im not sure the goblin is really out of sensors on... anything relevant on most maps

Now, line of sight? Now were talkin

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah that’s mostly what I meant

Tech attack the Goliath and use them as a radio antenna until the end of your next turn

Have Core power become a Protocol you toggle on and can apply this on-hit effect to all your tech attacks

[vagrant grotto]

This is a thought too

Like a Prism Projector paired with a leech

But also Metahook exists? So I’d want to differentiate it

[muted blaze]

I had a dumb thought... Don't do this but I want to present it to a world where "wouldn't it be cool if this thing could allow you to be dumb and OP"

I'm playing Cyberpunk 2077 again, and the metahook talk and ally proxy reminded me of how enemy netrunners can use other enemies as a proxy when trying to hack you (Hack uploads over time with warning and HUD indicating who it's going through and who from)

And there's a perk you can get in that where if you hack a netrunner who's hacking you, you can hack EVERYONE in the same network with the same quick hack at once. It made me think of reactive code and go "damn that would be a cool alternative"... However... No

[vagrant grotto]

It’s basically Chomolungma’s WACP yeah

[umbral sluice]

okay sunday is freed up so if you end up doing that then put me on the list

[placid glacier]

planning for a train heist (Enhanced Combat) mission for this week and I'm trying to think about how I wanna play this, I am considering giving the ultra Vulture another shot

[steel apex]

What Earthshatter leaves is, basically, a block of terrain

that is "the thrown weapon"

you aren't throwing the hammer, you are using the hammer to golf club a chunk of terrain into someone

"well can you quote-retrieve-unquote the block of terrain it creates" no not really

[muted blaze]

Picks up and pockets rock like a baldurs gate 3 character

[steel apex]

As noted, this is going to be homebrew vs homebrew interaction time, but as The Earthshatter Guy, I will state that my own intent for Earthshatter as it exists is that there is no "weapon" that needs retrieval, it isn't a case of knife juggling where the weapon returns automatically, it's that there is no object:weapon that is placed on the map, that role is instead given over to the terrain that's left behind, which acts like a chunk of terrain in all respects

[muted blaze]

Ooh

Has anyone used ghosts with specters?

It'd make the slippy bastard able to noclip and be a pest but do like... Regular damage

[muted blaze]

Ghost cataphracts are probs better...

Wait no, because a cataphract may just run through a wall with someone then smack that person into the wall and leave them behind

[sudden cosmos]

Arguably the specter is still on its own since the ghost is intangible

[muted blaze]

Mmm true

I meant the double damage is halved for being intangible

(or +5 damage if not rebake)

[vagrant grotto]

Time to ask #rules-questions if intangible characters can still be “adjacent” to tangible ones

[ashen crown]

That’s been something on my mind but Ghost’s Quantum Bond felt like a weirder specific case so I wasn’t sure which thread to ask

[vagrant grotto]

It affects Calendulas with Spotter, so #rules-questions

Hell, it affects Mourning Cloak with a Calendula buddy

[muted blaze]

It has a threat 3 weapon and it relies on adjacency to the target not the specter

So just sit at range 2 and brutalise someone and you don't need to even ask that question

[ashen crown]

I’m starting this discussion in #rules-questions this doesn’t sound right to me and also doesn’t pertain purely to the ghost anymore

[vagrant grotto]

It’s actually super relevant because Hunter checks for “other adjacent characters”. So does an Intangible Calendula in an adjacent space to the target count as “Adjacent”?

[ashen crown]

Yeah Intangible literally has a clause that they don’t count as adjacent to tangible characters

[vagrant grotto]

Well there we go

[ashen crown]

Which is separate from affecting characters, meaning Phase Shift does not allow intangible characters to continue benefitting from or imparting adjacency benefits

So the Rank Discipline Ghost idea I had is out the window

[vagrant grotto]

It works if Phase Shift is turned on

[ashen crown]

True

[vagrant grotto]

Intangible can be adjacent to intangible yeah?

[ashen crown]

Yep

[muted blaze]

Gain accuracy and no clip privel

...

WAit I need to read the ghosts wording

And intangibles wording

[ashen crown]

Ofc then you have the half damage stuff so it’s only really useful for like. Hives or smthn

[muted blaze]

Ok good news

I didn't find a new horrific edge case

[opaque crescent]

aww :(

[muted blaze]

IF Intangible characters were NOT affected by tangible characters (which they are) I was gonna ask

If a ghost CAN target tangible characters, Is it:

• It counted as tangible OR
• The target counted as Intangible

Because if cover didn't work in the shadow realm that would be VERY relevant of if cover was ignored or not

LUCKILY, the answer is the same each way

And even upon rules rereading I think the answer would have been clearly 1 anyway

[vagrant grotto]

DROP PRONE (FREE)
There are a few instances in Lancer where it is beneficial to quickly drop PRONE, usually encoded in specific abilities. This codifies the action for general use, and adds utility for a quick descent to the ground.

“A character may DROP PRONE as a free action, immediately gaining the PRONE status. If the character is flying, they may immediately descend up to 10 spaces before becoming PRONE, without taking damage from falling.”

Rewording for zero-g weirdness:

“A character may DROP PRONE as a free action, gaining the PRONE status. If the character is flying and is not underwater, in zero-g, or in a similar environment, they may immediately descend up to 10 spaces before becoming PRONE, without taking damage from falling.”

[muted blaze]

Descend in 0g feels odd to me

Because most the time in 0g there's no gravity to descend in

[vagrant grotto]

right that's why I add the caveat

that you... can't descend in zero-g

[muted blaze]

Oh mb

I read that is

"If you ARE in 0g or underwater, etc"

Can I, also throw in my bone with another house rule I've ruled frequently on the topic of 0g and prone?

[vagrant grotto]

also I'm codifying that thing I mentioned in #1433168090371461241 :

DRONE STANDARD MOVE
This optional rule allows for flexibility in repositioning DRONES by letting their controller sacrifice their standard movement to move the DRONE 4 spaces. Replace the fifth sentence of the DRONE tag rules with the following:
“By default, DRONES can’t take actions or move on their own; if they do have actions or movement, they act on their user’s turn. You may choose to forgo your standard move to move one DRONE you control in SENSORS up to 4 spaces.”

[vagrant grotto]

sure

[muted blaze]

Flying characters in 0g (or underwater, assume I'm also saying underwater here) are flying. And flying characters are immune to prone. I personally find this boring so in 0g environments I rule characters who are "prone" are actively spinning out/losing control

[vagrant grotto]

I was honestly considering pulling from D&D4e's Prone rules

which is: If you're flying and get knocked Prone, you first descend to the ground a set distance without taking falling damage, then get knocked prone

[muted blaze]

Oh fair enough

[vagrant grotto]

This means you could get BCL'd out of the sky though, or Rammed (though Grapple also kinda does this?)

but also: fuck dem flyers

[muted blaze]

heh

The Jump into ram strat is real

[vagrant grotto]

is that really so bad, tbh

Give the Kai Bioplating Melees something to do

[muted blaze]

Like

I kind of like prone immunity for one fact

If you can fly as standard move you can fly out of prone

Which feels neat

But otherwise it does feel like it should be the other way around where prone should knock you out of the sky

Unless you're a duskwing because lying on the floor whilst airborne is funny

[vagrant grotto]

Like I'd allow Hover flyers to not fall when knocked prone midair

[muted blaze]

Tarax, lying on it's back gazing at the sky waiting for it's turn

[opaque crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/the-exorcist-nightmare-exorcism-flying-gif-5394951

The prone duskwing in question

[muted blaze]

Even then I could imagine it regaining it fucking up it's flight core or whatever and not being immune

It's not a DND beholder

It's a mech

The ONLY reason I would say no against that is ships... Which ARE explicitely immune to prone so no ignore me

[vagrant grotto]

Also like, looking at CRB NPCs, the vast majority of Prone-inducing features require adjacency (difficult when the user isn't flying), being grounded (Barricade Seismic Repulsor), or collision (what are you colliding with in the sky?)

[muted blaze]

An Ace

[vagrant grotto]

Bombing Bay is the single ranged proner

[muted blaze]

Like, I was against it at first then I fought and went "wait, what actually can knock an Ace out the sky other than BCL?"

Hmmm... If I tweak the Aerial I should probs remove prone immunity from them all

If you want to suplex a helicopter out the sky like... Be my guest

[vagrant grotto]

I honestly think it'll negatively affect NPCs moreso than PCs

[muted blaze]

Yeah

[vagrant grotto]

Like, PCs get Stormbringer and BCL

[muted blaze]

Oh fuck

Stormbringer that's a very easy way of doing it

[vagrant grotto]

And Crack Shot 3 (body shot) and Walking Armory 2 (Jager)

[muted blaze]

yeah those are allowed

This is me being silly lmao

[vagrant grotto]

Going through PC ranged proning options now

Blackbeard Omniharpoon and Reinforced cabling (this seems 1000% thematic)

[muted blaze]

Some options are like "OMG YES" and some are like "eeeh, no"

[vagrant grotto]

like, what are you using cabling for if not grabbing an Ace out of the sky like fuckin Kratos

[muted blaze]

Unless it's too many words could probs add a clause "if it doesn't require a save, it requires an agi check"

Cos in my mind the "problems" are the ones that don't need saves

[vagrant grotto]

Power Knuckles on-crit with Hunter 2 for Thrown 5, and Roland Chamber

[muted blaze]

If you're throwing hands at a plane you deserve it

[vagrant grotto]

Iskander Grounding Charges do it but they're also intended to do it

[muted blaze]

I think, if prone can knock flyers out the sky it broadens anti air capabilities, of an already small (and fragile) roster of NPCs who can remain airborne in the first place

[vagrant grotto]

Long Rim time:

• Atlas CP leaving Hidden to prone on melee/ranged
• Weird Multi-Gear maneuver system usage (niche)
• Kraul Rifle tug
• Total Strength Suite 3, but only if the thrown character can fly and is thrown at another flying character

[muted blaze]

If you pull off a TSS3 DOUBLE airborne prone you win Lancer

[opaque crescent]

TSS3 😭

[muted blaze]

No wait that's impossible

To be in a flying grapple one part MUST be immobilised, if immobilised you can't fly

[vagrant grotto]

KTB:

• House Guard 3, deterministically (oof)
• Imperial Eye if they're low-flying
• Orchis Helion

[opaque crescent]

tarax holding an ace throwing into another ace?

[muted blaze]

The ace would still drop

...

I knnow a situation two targets can be grappled and airborne...

If one of them is an Atlas in rodeo

[vagrant grotto]

only ruling I can think of is "they immediately regain flying after the grapple ends, but before the push"

up to GM

[muted blaze]

It's impossible to maintain a grapple long enough to perform any actions in said grapple

IF standing on a large object however, you could kick someone off the roof into a flying target

That works

[vagrant grotto]

Wallflower:

• FABI (oof)

NPC side: Judgement (sic) Shotgun

[muted blaze]

The judgement shotgun knocks prone?!?!?!

💀

Yep it does

On top of the 15 energy if angered

[vagrant grotto]

SR:

• Chomolungma BCL, as mentioned

WS:

• Bounder CompCon on-crit

DG:

• Brutus's Wrecker (Exotic, Thrown 5, on-crit)
• Viceroy Core Power (vs. range 3)
• NPC: Spec Ops Special Munitions

SSMR: None

SOTW: None

So, players definitely benefit from "Prone forces flying NPC to land" more than NPCs do

[muted blaze]

Yep lmao

I think it as mentions would open a small pandoras box

Cons:

• NPCs don't have much access to flight with only 2 NPC classes, 2 templates and an Ultra optional base which grant permanent or airborne flight
• The game is balanced around the fact not much can knock enemies out the air with the NPC classes being fragile and manoeuvrable and the optionals/templates being rare

Pros:

• 80% of the options would be real fucking cool to yank an Ace out the air with

That one pro which is ENTIRELY vibes based is doing a LOT of heavy lifting

[vagrant grotto]

TBF you can already really make an Ace beef it with the Humble Fragsig and Shoot Gun

if anything it helps level the playing field for melee PCs

at least in my opinion

the argument of "don't fuck with it" is absolutely valid, regardless

[ashen crown]

The thing is Melee inherently accepts that they are sacrificing range for Overwatch Potential, no cover penalties or engagement penalties, and damage (sorta) (damage is more debatable).

Flying may be more guaranteed to stay out of range than just avoiding melees, but functionally it's not too different than a Specter using Prowl or an Operator constantly teleporting out of range.

[vagrant grotto]

yeah. I think my biggest question for each of these "ranged prone" options is "what's the action cost compared to a ranged attacker"

like, "I frag sig the Ace and shoot them with an HMG" exists

and we can quibble over the details and tags and shit but ultimately it's about action economy

[ashen crown]

As cool as some of these methods may be flavor wise I ultimately think making Prone an anti-flight tool is not the best idea. However I personally do think the whole "Flight = Prone Immunity" thing is a bit flawed in the first place- without hover you need to move at least one space during your turn to maintain flight, so having Flying characters not be immune to prone forces them to do stuff like Boost to continue flying after clearing prone (which you can shut down entirely if you slow them).

Perhaps a solution is just not have Prone = falling and let flying characters be knocked prone anyway

If that's what you wanna go for I mean

[vagrant grotto]

anywho, I added Drop Prone as a free action, added Drone Standard Move as an optional rule, and otherwise added my augmented tags to the 1.16 alpha LCP

[muted blaze]

Guess I'm playing Hydra now #1455258209857048639

[vagrant grotto]

I do think that if flying+prone was touched, there may be room to sneak Prone into the "this is when you should roll Agility vs. falling" alongside Structure/Stress damage

[vagrant grotto]

This is on v1.16, not v1.15

I'm still percolating this

[muted blaze]

Oh fair

[vagrant grotto]

honestly I might restrict it to drones without a speed stat

Hydra drones have a speed stat

[umbral sluice]

oh, does this have a 1/round limit or anything? because of the spaceborne 2 flying interaction with it

where you essentially drop prone -> fly 1 space to clear prone -> move 2 for free -> repeat

[vagrant grotto]

amazing, I hate this lol

[opaque crescent]

evil ass spaceborn movement tech

[umbral sluice]

yes i have invented lancer wavedashing

RAW this is possible but only when sniper's marked

[vagrant grotto]

great, time to introduce a 1/turn limit to dropping prone

[opaque crescent]

the good ol koopabackdashwaveslide hoverwalkmoonland

[vagrant grotto]

or when Volley Module is on the field

[umbral sluice]

oh true

anyway the Barbarossa Wavedashing while sniper's marked has haunted my nightmares since I realised this was possible

[muted blaze]

Source engine movement ass

"Hey guys, Desinc here"

https://tenor.com/view/bhop-bomb-gun-rifle-game-gif-15356609

[vagrant grotto]

1/turn limit added

Frankly this limit should be on Spacer itself but I'm not touching that in PPG

[muted blaze]

Wait

Is it not on spacer?

SO RAW YOU CAN JUST DO THAT IF SNIPERS MARKED!?!?!?

[ashen crown]

Or just say "change this part of spaceborn to require that you start your turn prone"

[vagrant grotto]

free actions are fucky wucky period

[ashen crown]

Oh wait just changes in PPG oops

[vagrant grotto]

1/turn is sensible regardless

[umbral sluice]

precisely

[muted blaze]

Sniper: "I've got you in my sights you slippery bastard"
Barbarossa: Source engine physics clipping noise.mp3 "Improvised attack"

[ashen crown]

Technically repeat action restriction still applies tho, no?

[umbral sluice]

free actions ignore duplicate action restriction

[vagrant grotto]

idk, does it apply to defined Free Actions

[ashen crown]

I think so

[vagrant grotto]

like, compared to "you take this Quick Action as a free action"

[muted blaze]

I think all free actions just have a defined limit on them

[umbral sluice]

oh is that the case?

i thought free actions werent subject to it

[ashen crown]

Nevermind

[vagrant grotto]

so like, I could make it a Protocol instead

[ashen crown]

As a sorta hit the decks kinda thing

[vagrant grotto]

but then it's inconsistent with Sniper's Mark, which violates the goal here

[muted blaze]

Me prop glitching to the sniper

[vagrant grotto]

but like, yeah limiting it to a Protocol would otherwise be sensible

[muted blaze]

Running for cover and diving prone in cover would also make sense to me thematically

[opaque crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/speedrun-half-life-gif-20747788

[muted blaze]

Which is not useful cos if in cover, no snipers mark anyway lmao

[vagrant grotto]

There needs to be a special variety of Protocol or action that lets you use an action as a Protocol or Quick Action

[muted blaze]

It's said so much in PPG and your own stuff it could probs just be put into a bullet point

"An interaction action" idk

[umbral sluice]

close enough welcome back pf2e interact

[muted blaze]

Spend an interaction action to drop prone

Spend an interaction action to control the payload

[vagrant grotto]

add the "Readied" tag

Readied
A feature with this tag may be activated as a Protocol instead of its normal action.

"Interact Action" could work yeah

because then it works on things that aren't tagged

[muted blaze]

Is readied gonna be on an enemies statblock?

[vagrant grotto]

I'm not making Readied a thing if I'm being honest

but it's definitely something I've thought of for like, Bastion's FI and Barricade's Cube

[muted blaze]

Mmmmm

I think rebake Barricades could deffo stay QA, but FI could easily be readied

[vagrant grotto]

if this was Pathfinder I'd just make it a 1-action thing and say "deal with it" but since we're in "2 quicks and a move land" in Lancer, having the positioning benefit of Protocol is useful

of course, the other alternative is "you can take this action as a Quick Action or by forgoing your Standard Move"

[tame wharf]

This would be very nice. It means you don't have to take Hydra 1 if your planning on playing a controller

Drone Controller*

[vagrant grotto]

Kai's Barricade cube is fine as-is tbf

[muted blaze]

Yeah exactly

CRB however

[vagrant grotto]

yup yup

Aight so here's a question: Are there any Protocols that would be busted if they could also be used as a Quick Action, on either side of the GM Screen

[muted blaze]

A decent amount I'd say... some because you can't overcharge/initative/other free action a protocol but you can a quick

TSS2 Could be weird because of that

[tame wharf]

Grammaton Mantle immediately comes to mind

[muted blaze]

Otherwise others off the top of my head are "fine" because like... You pop crack shot late... Oh no how proken... For a QA IG

[tame wharf]

Being able to spend a QC to turn intangible would be so nice

[vagrant grotto]

okay, lemme tweak then: What if every Protocol was inherently 1/turn, without exception, in all cases, but could also be used as a Quick Action

[south cypress]

ASURA under Brace downside, potentially

[vagrant grotto]

(technically this is already accounted for in Protocol's rules text)

[vagrant grotto]

Spending the 1/scene ASURA as a quick while Braced to get 2 quicks or a full doesn't strike me as game-breaking

[muted blaze]

I think, crack shot

[vagrant grotto]

Crack shot would let you move before planting your feet yeah, but you still sacrifice a Quick for it

[muted blaze]

But then the immobilise doesn't really matter

[vagrant grotto]

Turning over control to an AI as a quick...

[south cypress]

Oh similarly, being able to TLALOC after a standard move would be kind of cool

[muted blaze]

Things that slow or immobilise I think are the strong contenders

[vagrant grotto]

I mean it still matters off-turn

[muted blaze]

Deppends on the build

[vagrant grotto]

but Quick Action to "take aim" exists in Lock On anyway

the talent just has more hooks to it

[south cypress]

Could open up TLALOC Iconoclast ideas potentially

Could do some heinous like TLALOC + MemeSpark + 3 Autoguns thing

[muted blaze]

Things that self immobilise or slow work so undner the assumption that you won't be much more powerful if you could position yourself THEN activate it as a QA

But that's it tbh

Otherwise yeah I think Grammaton mantle is the big one

Like if you wanna take a free as a quick sure I guess

[vagrant grotto]

seems like a Fade Cloak thing here

[muted blaze]

Does it give you a condition/status: Yes - It may be problematic depending on the condition/status with the assumption you're spending a whole turn under that effect rather than part of a turn

[vagrant grotto]

Let's see what else, Playerside from CRB

• DC 1 move drone
• Projected Shield
• Many Core Powers (will skip ones that don't make sense to activate as a Quick)
• Sekhmet
• Fortress Protocol
• Ending (Leviathan Heavy) Assault Cannon spinup
• Ramjet
• Cease Focus on Mark For Death
• Core Siphon (if you attack first and then Core Siphon I think it hurts you more than not)
• OASIS Wall
• Active Camouflage
• TLALOC
• Retractable Profile
• Annihilation Nexus follow-up attack
• Lightning Generator (while not in DZ)
• Auto-Cooler
• AGNI (don't see a reason not to use this early unless you took unexpected heat and need a panic button)
• Deactivate Hardlight Defense System
• COREBURN Protocol (e.g. Shoot SOLIDCORE, then QA to immediately refresh it)
• ASURA
• Overclock
• Lucifer

All the CRB NPC stuff involving the Protocol action seems fairly mild to have as a QA. It's really just FI, Mobile Printer, and Bodyguard that get a power bump

[muted blaze]

And other 1st party?

[vagrant grotto]

Long Rim:

• BT Rodeo
• JK1
• Terashima stance shift
• Release Forge Clamps
• Blinkspace Tunneler
• TSS 2

Wallflower:

• Furiosa (controlling when it turns on)
• Guerrilla Warfare
• Lurker Umbral Shroud deploy

KTB:

• WW Rooted
• Ferrofluid Lance fling
• Pinning Spire end
• Calendula Grammaton Mantle

[vagrant grotto]

working on it lol

[muted blaze]

Sorry 😅

[vagrant grotto]

DG:

• Raise Brutus's Shield
• Cockpit-Integrated Stim Pump
• SpecOps Active Camo
• SpecOps Full-Spectrum Sensor Suite
• Horror Phase-Shift Generator
• Horror Quadruped (niche, most useful for a slow NPC that managed to clear Slowed/Immobilized since the start of its turn)

SSMR:

• Tempest graywash activations

WS:

• Gilgamesh Exo-Amplification
• Legion Drone movement
• Amber Phantom Convergence Point

SOTW:

• Tagetes SANDSTORM Heat Dispersal's granted "heat clear protocol"

Overall, I think there's a few cases in there where the added flexibility is abusable, yeah

Potentially moreso if RAW Overcharge is in play (for Quick Action -> Quick Action Protocol -> OC Quick Action sequence)

I'd have to throw it to Mech Hangar and see what abuse cases they'd tease out, if I cared enough

[muted blaze]

I don't think anythingg breaks

I think it just "breaks" a global assumption that these happen once with the concept of not adjusting your startingg parameters (already heated, ggoingg to obliterate with lucifer, not in good spot to CS1, etc)

[umbral sluice]

by far the biggest thing i'm seeing as an issue here is Grammaton Mantle

being able to still take a quick before vanishing is very good

having looked through the rest they seem okay? i cant see anything breaking atm

[vagrant grotto]

yeah, but in a way it's like Fade Cloak, or Hide

[umbral sluice]

maybe some convoluted interaction between a talent and two systems

[umbral sluice]

i suppose fade cloak is an apt comparison

fade cloak but turns off for free start of next turn?

basically

[dapper goblet]

I come back bearing some feedback on hatchets and knights

There were also anchors and napalms deployed but they... really didn't do much other than just sit way back and not get shot much, so turns out unobstructed napalms do a lot of damage unsurprisingly

I think knights are pretty much perfect honestly - They MIGHT need a tiny scooch less HP but that might be the T2 jump at ll5 blowing out my numbers there. Other than that they felt good, very mean combo with spacer's grav rifle due to an outsized save target

Hatchets feel broadly pretty good. Strong when they get to play their game, awkward when they do not (to be clear, not a complaint, I think that's good).

I think reckless dive is a bit awkward to trigger once players know how it works, though i'm not completely sure how I'd expand the trigger. The thing I'm rotating in my head is if the player adjacent to, or in a line between the hatchet and their weapon but I'm not totally sure that would do anything other than just make it a bit awkward to check and not really expand it

Oh small thing on anchor - magnetic reversal feels sort of out of place in its kit. Its an optional fair enough, but it feels like its uno-reversing the way you're supposed to counter the anchor which players called out as feeling a little bad

second wind from knight removing a blackbeard's core immobilize won me my first sitrep of the campaign though so now im biased lol

[vagrant grotto]

Thank you for all the feedback! Glad to hear Knight and Hatchet are feeling good. Noted on Reckless Dive, I’ll consider the trigger/effect

[vagrant grotto]

Noted on Mag Reversal; maybe it was intended to broaden its defensive suite, but maybe I should just make it akin to Rebound instead (hunker down + reflects ranged attack damage as it uno reverses the shot)

[dapper goblet]

yeah i could see that

[vagrant grotto]

Make mag reversal a kind of “death counter like” balancing the catch 22 of Lodestone

[dapper goblet]

yeah - basically say "no, you're really supposed to play by my rules" rather than "even if you do, still get fucked"

[vagrant grotto]

Mag reversal and Newtonian amp are both due for another revamp

Napalm sounded like it did artillery crimes so that’s standard

Would a Bombard been deadlier or not in the same situation?

[dapper goblet]

bombard would have been less deadly is my impulse on that one

[vagrant grotto]

Really? Interesting

[dapper goblet]

but I think because I had long-burn catalyst

and people were getting heat-wrecked

[vagrant grotto]

Ah

Noted, how do you feel about LBC?

[dapper goblet]

Fun into a tokugowa 🙂

[vagrant grotto]

I haven’t seen LBC recently so data is good

[dapper goblet]

like all of those sorts of effects its EXTREMELY punitive into some builds but unless you field it alongside a witch it doesn't feel hugely impactful. Tacking on the engi difficulty makes it feel good though - thats always nice

[vagrant grotto]

Last time I used it I think the Danger Zone gate was still on it

[dapper goblet]

I think as an optional realistically nobody is running it unless they've got an oclooper

so thats probably fine

like optionals can be niche

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah, just not too niche

[dapper goblet]

i mean there's tons of reactor criminals out there

so I don't think its niche

*too niche

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah was mostly just thinking of the Hatchet reactions there

[dapper goblet]

yeah hatchet is less "build niche" and more just hard to trigger

which i think are meaningfully different concepts

[vagrant grotto]

Valid

Thinking I’m gonna just make it a reaction that lets them move to retrieve a weapon and then throw it (while gaining resistance)

[ashen crown]

The “I HATE HYDRA!!!” Sitrep:

• Rebake Hive with Command Override
• Scourer with Melt
• Occultist with Lead Astray
• Brigand Bombard with Commandeer

Optional- replace Bombard with Pyro and give Occultist the Pyre optional to take advantage of the burn this composition has

[ashen crown]

So as a note regarding the Ghost vs the Leech when it comes to occupying spaces:

I recall it was stated sorta offhandedly that Valk, you weren’t sure why the Leech didn’t just occupy one of the Grappled Character’s spaces and instead does that weird remove from battlefield stuff. I think the reason the Leech is designed like that is for the sake of threat, range, and burst effects. With the way the Leech is, it can basically act like it’s size 3 when grappling a size 3 target for the purposes of drawing threat, range, and burst effects because it’s sharing all of the grappled character’s spaces instead of just one.

I bring this up because for effects like Superimpose Firmament, this is very relevant for the Ghost as that impacts the footprint those effects leave. Plus templates can give the Ghost melee weapons that have threat, and the way it is now its threat becomes severely reduced when bonding with larger targets (since part of its threat will be in their host’s spaces, effectively making them cover less spaces).

I’m not saying this is at all a bad thing- Ghosts are so much harder to knock out than Leeches so them being worse in terms of footprint is warranted, but it’s a notable distinction between these two admittedly similar NPCs.

[vagrant grotto]

That’s not what I meant about leech tbf. I was more confused why “removed from battlefield” wording was present instead of “shares the host’s space” like MULE. Otherwise yes your observations are correct

[ashen crown]

My presumption as to why is so that the Leech doesn't neither occupy the host's space twice nor stay adjacent to the target like a normal grappler

[vagrant grotto]

I know why Shaka did it, it was for overhead on the battlemap

Like, it’s intended to stay adjacent/be able to be targeted

It’s more of a weird wording thing than anything, I playtested it with him and know how it’s intended to play

[opaque crescent]

Hello PPG, I need one player to fill for a playtest on <t:1767466800:F> #1455258209857048639. Let me know if you're interested and available

[umbral sluice]

Ive had to cancel lancer so I should be able to jump in if need be

[opaque crescent]

joyous to being able to join the playtest, not joyous to having scheduled games cancelled

[ashen crown]

question:

Because Ronin and Kensei share a lot of flavor and have a little mechanical overlap, what circumstances would you recommend using a Kensei vs a Ronin? Both in terms of mechanics and flavor

[vagrant grotto]

Deploy a Ronin when you want something dead

Deploy a Kensei when you want something to fear for its life

[ashen crown]

Including the Rebake Ronin in this discussion to cause that’s what I use, for bonus context

[ashen crown]

As someone who has used like 3 Ronin over his life and 0 Kensei, could you elaborate please?

[vagrant grotto]

Ronin wants to use the sword to kill things

Kensei wants to use the sword to threaten things

These are not the same goals

The Kensei can absolutely hit like a truck… if the players let them. But the players can also just walk away

Or try to force Mach Parry

[ashen crown]

Gotcha, Kensei are better at protecting objectives and Ronins are better at knocking off structure.

Flavor wise is there much of a difference?

[vagrant grotto]

Kensei is a dual Vanguard/Rearguard

It can walk up and start projecting threat

And then hold an area with that threat

Flavor wise, yeah

[ashen crown]

Kensei moves people, Rebake Ronin moves itself (Rebound and Instinct Mode involve boost after all)

[vagrant grotto]

Kensei is a Vanguard by way of Demolisher

[ashen crown]

Yeah as in “yeah there is a difference” or as in “yeah there is no difference”?

[vagrant grotto]

The same arguments for the Hammer as a deterrent apply to the sword

[vagrant grotto]

Like I don’t know read the lore and decide for yourself

I think they’re distinct enough from each other but I’m not in the mood to argue over it

So: dealer’s choice

[muted blaze]

Rebake Ronin is an anti ranged attack striker

[ashen crown]

Fair I suppose. They don’t need to have a big flavor difference- like look at Archer and Assault- but I was more just looking for input cause I wanna use both of them more but have a hard time justifying using either of them in the first place

(I have a hard time because competition between other NPCs is tight, not because of any fault of the NPC)

[vagrant grotto]

Like, the difference between a Ronin and a Kensei imo is that a Kensei is bulkier

[muted blaze]

I guess like... Ronin is lighterweight maneuvrable whereas kensei has bulkier up armouring. A heavier sword,

Yep lmao

[vagrant grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/hknn-gif-21082075

Ronins

https://tenor.com/view/samurai-gif-25708569

Kensei

[umbral sluice]

is that for honour

[vagrant grotto]

I don’t know I just searched the gifs

[ashen crown]

I kinda get it actually- a Ronin could be a Samurai or a Ninja, but a Kensei is probably only a Samurai

[vagrant grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/isshin-ashina-sekiro-sword-saint-gif-18951335

[umbral sluice]

lmao, i just had a Ratatouille food critic moment upon seeing it is all

[ashen crown]

My takeaway is “okay I can put a Kensei on an SSC faction roster, but I could also get away with giving it to another manufacturer instead of just letting SSC have a monopoly on it, unlike Ronin”

In the context of my games I mean this is absolutely not universal

I also probably don’t wanna flavor the Kensei as an Atlas cause Ronin’s probably better for that

(Flavor helps me find excuses to use NPCs sue me)

(Yes I’m aware I can just reflavor to my hearts content but if I do that then every NPC also gets that privilege and we’re back at square one)

Wait hang on, this was all inspired by MGR:R

Raiden’s a Ronin

Sam is a Kensei

There we go

Comparing the flavor more- the Ronin seems to be flavored more around mastering the blade, while the Kensei seems to be flavored more as mastering the chassis as a whole since the Kensei not only has the blade, but the Sheath and potentially the Hand Cannon and Hacks too.

A Kensei is probably more suited for Tactician or Swordsmith type of characters whereas Ronin can be Fencer or Assassin edit: knight sounds more appropriate (not the class) type characters, especially since the Kensei doesn’t seem to care particularly much about engaging people in duels. Practical vs Sport combat.

This discussion genuinely helped thanks ^^

The mechanical distinction is also a good point I need to think on more

[vagrant grotto]

@ashen crown did you message here, I got a ping

[ashen crown]

I did but I deleted it because I did a control F and answered the question myself, apologies

[vagrant grotto]

all good, glad you found an answer

[opaque crescent]

ty for playing the playtest today, new one soon (probably) ✨

[vagrant grotto]

Really appreciate you running the game! I 100% have stuff to tweak, maybe I’ll get to them this week

[vagrant grotto]

Last couple of playtests I played in with an Anchor feel like they actually didn’t get much mileage outta lodestone

Yesterday, there were no Ranged attacks to be found

[umbral sluice]

the one ranged attacker was villian but they were busy scylla-ing

im not sure does this mean melee in lancer is strong or does it mean that PPG testers like melee

[muted blaze]

As the primary/only ranged attacker, yesterday the anchor wasn't a threat to me because there were no enemies that I WANTED to attack near the anchor

[vagrant grotto]

Yes that exactly too

[muted blaze]

If there were more enemies on that point I think it would have been more pleasant

[vagrant grotto]

Occultist was the only one that would want that and the Mourning Cloak played that scenario as intended

[muted blaze]

I realised at one point I couldn't help Cat by shooting the Occultist cos it was in lodestone. Cat however was a valid target in lodestone

Idk if anchor is underpowered or is one of those matchups like a spectre Vs a dedicated anti invis mech or a sniper within move and boost range of a Nelson

[vagrant grotto]

Listen, to me this is a good sign that folks that were up in arms about Lodestone being an outright “no” may have been overreacting

[muted blaze]

Lmao

I don't see it as much worse than an Aegis personally... Aegis makes EVERYONE have a bad time... Whereas anchor makes only ranged have a worse time

Speaking of... Newtonian amplifier is a gravity themed deterrent. Somewhat similar in vibe of deterring to ring of fire maybe?

Anchor demo combo must be gnarly...

[ashen crown]

I would’ve thought the big ass area of slow would’ve been more impactful- that certainly felt like the most impactful part of Lodestone when I was running Controls (in this context the Anchor had to engage with the PCs in a more vanguard capacity hence why the ranged attack stuff was less relevant)

[ashen crown]

Huh. Lodestone would really fuck over a Gorgon, wouldn’t it?

[ashen crown]

Technically it’s not even a bad time they can just attack the Anchor unobstructed

[muted blaze]

Yeah, the counter play of the anchor if you have a ranged is just to kill the guy. Which is valuable and it will die

Unfortunately killing it would usually mean you're not killing a more valuable target, in which case it's winning

A bastion + anchor could be quite fun but is very all in on anti ranged defence

Hmmmm... I just thought of a combo... Capacitor grunt/formation

They still spawn with overshield despite their 1hp

Still explode on invade

[vagrant grotto]

That reminds me I need to reword Formation to count as Grunts explicitly for the purposes of effects

I cannot stop with simply Templates, I must make sure the Avenger can’t abuse them (and the Occultist can)

[static kernel]

@vagrant grotto for the Knight's Hero's Banner ability - i assume 'Allied Characters' means 'allied to the banner' (ie- the knight itself gains the resistance), right?

[muted blaze]

I thought they had that already?

[vagrant grotto]

Deployables are not their own characters and “allied” is relative to the deployable’s deployer

In short: knight gets no resist

[vagrant grotto]

Not currently, it template only

I was too specific for my own good

[vagrant grotto]

Anyway I’m gonna try to push out a new version today assuming I don’t get distracted by GDQ

[sudden cosmos]

@vagrant grotto allow me to potentially distract you further. snap decision is there anything you want tested with 4 ll6 players right now

[vagrant grotto]

Like right the fuck now? Lemme check

[sudden cosmos]

occultist is on the list

[vagrant grotto]

• Scintillating Gleam Prism
• String Theory Ghost
• Anything I update in v1.16

But those first two are the only ones awaiting feedback at the moment, besides Prototype stuff and Formations

I guess Brigand Shredding Claws too

[sudden cosmos]

I can do the prisim

[dapper goblet]

From doodling with anchor a bit I just find it to be a little... funky at a core concept level

Its utility is almost entirely in stationary artillery battles

[vagrant grotto]

Chain Surge
System, Recharge 5+, Quick Tech
Choose another character in SENSORS and line of sight. If the character is hostile, they take 2/3/4 Energy damage; if allied, they gain OVERSHIELD 2/3/4. The Prototype may repeat this effect against a different character not yet affected by this system within Range 5 of the target. This system may only affect 3/4/5 characters in a single use.

revising Chain Surge

changed the range

I think the ping-damage is okay when it's quick and dedicated to an entire quick action?

[muted blaze]

That looks quite potent

[vagrant grotto]

it's basically what it already is

just with less janky targeting

[muted blaze]

Oh mb

I missed the 3/4/5 targets

[umbral sluice]

yeah 2/3/4 feels fine honestly

at tier 2 thats 3 non AP to max 4 targets which is like. good but fine? its a recharge so

and basically gets neutered by armour

[vagrant grotto]

Okay I’ve revised the Prototype’s tech actions, moving on to the NPCs now

[sudden cosmos]

One of my players is asking if the prisim is inspired by command and conquer

[vagrant grotto]

Nope! I came up with the idea largely on my own and then went through similar implementations for guidance on making it work

[sudden cosmos]

apparently there's a unit in C&C that's very similar to it

[umbral sluice]

oh, may i ask what ended up happening with Xnopyt Potato? is it an anomaly thing now?

[vagrant grotto]

oh fuck good reminder

I was keeping it prototype but that's a good shout

[muted blaze]

Just looking at prototypes and wondering what I'd make if I made more...

Demolisher with Lock/Hold

[vagrant grotto]

Which of the Anomaly techs feels Prototype enough

I think Blinkspace Expulsion and Bottom of the Well both work for Prototype

[sudden cosmos]

Bottom of the well feels the most prototype

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah I think so too

[sudden cosmos]

lemme look at them though

[vagrant grotto]

I know it feels weird but IMO it's a "Horus Prototype" option

which is why I made Xnopyt Potato + Doomscroll in the first place

[sudden cosmos]

I was considering saying that xnopyt felt more anomaly than prototype but figured you had your meanings

[vagrant grotto]

Xnopyt feels like a meme which HORUS loves

which is why I named it so tbh

[muted blaze]

I think Horus prototypes and are lowkey "tame" anomaly traits

[sudden cosmos]

sending someone to the backrooms feels very horus too

vis a vis blinkspace

but it's not a meme

[vagrant grotto]

exactly yeah

[muted blaze]

Clearly prototypes should have the ability to stop time as a reaction

[vagrant grotto]

I'm limiting it to Tech actions atm

[muted blaze]

Twas joking, TBH Mooost of the anomaly tech actions can feel like prototypes

At most, with a changed name

[vagrant grotto]

I'm leaving Xnopyt as a Prototype option for now

layout reasons

Aaaaaaand my laptop decided to restart itself

[muted blaze]

Piss

[placid glacier]

Rip

[placid glacier]

I wanted to test archers with Bodyguard/Reflexive blow this weekend but plans fell through

[muted blaze]

I think sentinels can make a fun foundation with eye of midnight...

Sentinel with Dual shotguns

[tame wharf]

I would ask to be pinged the next time y'all do a players

I want to play Valks reworked Minotaur

[muted blaze]

Hrmm...

Maybe I should just do a prototype overload. Fuck as much shit up with prototypes as possible

[vagrant grotto]

Prototype is carte blanche for cross classing, go for it

[umbral sluice]

valid yeah, was just curious since i remember feedback on it feeling anomaly coded

[umbral sluice]

ahhhh shit im sorry

[muted blaze]

NGL I think the Venn diagram for flavour of the prototype and anomaly has a decent amount of overlap

Not a bad thing tbh

[vagrant grotto]

It’s fine, it’s back up now and I didn’t lose anything

[vagrant grotto]

Oh joy the update didn’t take, and now I gotta do it again. Oh well, at least I properly saved all my shit this time and it didn’t try to auto restart on me

[muted blaze]

Wait I can have a prototype put this onto a character smaller than size 3 lmao

[vagrant grotto]

Sure can

[sudden cosmos]

poor guy

[vagrant grotto]

Damn. Knight getting dunked on?

[sudden cosmos]

He's trying his best

[dapper goblet]

knight accidentally became the signature unit for my HA faction

It Just Works ™

Big Kutuzov with sword

[muted blaze]

Do I want to run a playteeeeest... For shits and gigs..........m??!?!?

[dapper goblet]

Yeah Knight with Valor is serving as a very solid frontline for the Gamma-Black. Players hate him, he is unbothered

its very funny making people mad at a defender like that because "I want to kill him" means he is succeeding at his gameplan

[vagrant grotto]

As long as players want to kill him, but it's taxing for them to do so, I'm succeeding at my design

[dapper goblet]

My mimc gun pegasus keeps screaming that he cant crit anyone else so

+1. Clean, simple, good fun. Love the toss optional and planning to use it to throw players into pits next combat

[vagrant grotto]

Just win the Systems save

I may revise the Throw to be omnidirectional in v1.16

[dapper goblet]

I'll red pen it and test it for you

[vagrant grotto]

literally just cross out "Away from the knight"

[dapper goblet]

its one untemplated Knight so probably wont be a ton of data but yknow

(this is my weird budget-crunched combat I was discussing a bit ago)

[vagrant grotto]

lemme revise: replace "away from the Knight and" with "in any direction while"

[dapper goblet]

yeah i gotcha

I do enough homebrewing tinkering with this stuff is well in my wheelhouse 🙂

[sudden cosmos]

If you're already dazed and you get structured again, can you just choose to be dazed again?

[vagrant grotto]

yup

Easy stuff is close to done atm

RECIPROCITY - Trait
When the Capacitor deploys or takes structure damage, it immediately gains OVERSHIELD 2/3/4. Whenever it grants OVERSHIELD to another character, it gains the same amount of OVERSHIELD.

[vagrant grotto]

I added FAQ entries for Reciprocity to handle "leftover damage after structure" and "does overshield stack"

Okay I'm entering the harder stuff now:

• Anchor optionals
• Hatchet Reckless Dive
• Occultist Doubling Season
• Vulture Rapid Refabrication
• Scaling stats
• Ghost HP bump

hard because a Jet Set Radio speedrun is currently on my TV lol

[sudden cosmos]

Sitrep:
Gauntlet, called at 4/8 Rounds on SWD Crater Gauntlet because people had to go

PCs (LL6):

• Executioner White Witch (you know the build)
• CQB Roland Toku
• Tech Support/Spotter Swallowtail
• SMN TCB Atlas

OpFor (all had legendary):

• 1x Veteran Commander Knight (Mighty Throw, Templar's Shield, Lightning Reflexes (bad idea), Bolster Network (also bad idea))
• 1x Elite Veteran Hatchet (Plasma Knife, Rocket Bola, Whirlwind Kick, Pull the Snare)
• 1x Veteran Occultist (Scapegoat, Jealous Flock, Doubling Season)
• 1x Veteran Prism (Scintillating Gleam, Shardsplitter Shotgun, Double Vision)
• 1x Veteran Mesmerist (Metafold Reposte, Montebank's Jaunt, Hall of Mirrors)

[more info forthcoming. character limits ]

[sudden cosmos]

Knight: got ruthlessly bullied by SMN atlas and toku. reasonably durable. locked the tokugawa into attacking it and survived reasonably long on the merits of having 3 structure and the rebake table. Swallowtail shred made templar's shield irrelevant. Making heavy weapons miss when the only heavy weapon user has executioner 3 didn't help.

Hatchet: Player said cleaving retrieval + pull the snare were at odds with each other. I suggested that maybe they were meant to give CR a use both with adjacent melee weapons and far-away melee weapons so the ability always had a use. Player suggested it should have another weapon baseline because "if you're always taking an optional weapon, is it really optional?" I disagree with this but figured it may be useful to hear. Player said "Why does it have more HP than the knight?"

Mesmerist: Feels better to use than the last time I used it. Got piled on as it went to help the knight and harass the atlas. Put some work in, but got mechanically invalidated by athena and lotus projector. As an aside, can it pseudo-puppetwatch with Hypnotic Attraction and immediately recharge it with codespike? I'm guessing this was intentional.

Prism: I don't think I played it correctly. I was only attacking from the projectors instead of using systems/traits from them. Players were confused by it too (may have been caused by info overload from hitting the entire opfor with athena R1T1 though). Shardsplitter is kinda cracked and maybe it's because I like choosing violence, but I don't know when I'd not take it. Gleam felt... midly inconveniencing? It stopped the atlas player from dragging the knight into the deathball for An Turn and didn't recharge again. Could be a useful tool, but wasn't very helpful in this fight.

Occultist: Oddly, didn't have the 'unauthorized fucking thing' debuff. Was largely irrelevant. Drones died to incidental splash damage before they could be reaped. Doubling Season + other abilities were never relevant because of that.

[vagrant grotto]

Newtonian Amplifier
System, Arcing, Recharge 6+, Quick Action
Hostile characters in or directly above a Line 8 area of gravitic energy must pass a HULL save or be IMMOBILIZED until the end of their next turn (falling as normal) and be knocked PRONE.

Changing Newtonian Amplifier to Line 8 again, and rewording the immobilized + prone. Thoughts?

[vagrant grotto]

Thank you for this feedback! Gonna work through this a bit

[muted blaze]

Wording for immob + prone is clear

Arcing 😩

[sudden cosmos]

Is the immobilized just for forcing them to land?

[muted blaze]

Forcing them to fall

[sudden cosmos]

Oh. So it could weaponize fall damage.

I was gonna say that if the main idea was to get them out of the sky, lifting "forced to land" verbiage from iskander would have a similar effect, but immob+prone is sufficiently nasty

[muted blaze]

So before it was a deterrent to try and prevent enemies getting close into it's lodestone radius. What is it's purpose now? A tool to prevent people from trying to move if they're trying to get close?

[sudden cosmos]

Recharge 6 save or suck feels a bit dodgy to take.

But there are worse optionals

[muted blaze]

Disagree with that... Looking through rebakes atleast NPC immob tools are few and far between...

[vagrant grotto]

• Knight: Glad it was "reasonably durable", sounds like it's the most solid of the bunch right now
• Hatchet: Yeah I get that, the purpose of Pull the Snare was to give the Vet a different option. Honestly given how the Hatchet can get piled on with CC, it's a decent consolation prize when it can't safely engage+disengage. I also disagree that it always needs an optional weapon, but folks may just default to that. As for HP: IDK, why does Ronin have more HP than Bastion (the answer is the Bastion has Armor and better Resistance, on paper)
• Mesmserist: Glad it felt better. Pseudo puppetwatch is fine for now, intended. Ouch on Swallowtail.
• Prism: Noted on Shardsplitter. And yeah it's complicated, Athena infobomb probably hurt players. Gleam stopping an action for a turn for a Quick isn't bad in my book
• Occultist: Big fucking oof

[vagrant grotto]

Keepaway tool that also fucks with flyers, though I could see it being a Range + Blast instead maybe

[muted blaze]

Honestly this would look quite powerful as a FA ngl

[vagrant grotto]

It was a Full Action before and it fucked with Lodestone

[muted blaze]

Ooh yeah I see

[vagrant grotto]

I decided "fuck it, Recharge 6 Quick Action in a line"

I think I'm trying too hard to make it a Line, honestly

Ranged blast in Sensors is probably fine

[muted blaze]

I'm comparing it to other traits, like Cataphract rebakes Lance shot which is FA line 5, knockback 3. If collision Immob (Using rebakes as example because CRB condition application can be wack... Scourer or Cataphract Jam case and point)

Range 8 QA, IMMOB and Prone is quite tasty... If you fail that as a player you are in shit for atleast 2 rounds if no one assists with condition clear or you don't stabilise

Limited 1 Maybe?!?!?!?

[vagrant grotto]

limited 1 probably yeah

like a grenade or something

[ashen crown]

Because it’s got relatively long range, especially compared to something like Drone Commander 3 which can only chain lines to Allies, and it’s a quick action, I’d probably say Recharge 6 is more befitting purely because it’s very easy to use and has no roll

Ya know I say this and immediately disagree with myself

[muted blaze]

Lmao

[umbral sluice]

Blast 2 in range 8 would be my thought on Newtonian Amplifier

[ashen crown]

I swear I was thinking about it hard this time before posting, I was thinking before I spoke -_-

[umbral sluice]

flavourwise its like, overclocking the gravity cannon

[muted blaze]

Also I got bored and made an enemy roster using PPG stuff and a a sitrep to support it

:>

[ashen crown]

Must be a Tuesday

[umbral sluice]

is this for a playtest or are you just fuckign around

[muted blaze]

Probably

[vagrant grotto]

too late, increased recharge to 6

[ashen crown]

lol

[muted blaze]

Make it recharge 7

For no reason at all

can you do that?

[vagrant grotto]

because yeah I'm willing to reduce the frequency

[vagrant grotto]

yes, it just means only Vulture can recharge it

[umbral sluice]

well this is just lim 1 with extra steps

[vagrant grotto]

or if something causes Recharge to reduce

[muted blaze]

Oh but foundry actually allows it lmao

Anyway that's me being silly in a tangent and not PPG related

[ashen crown]

Imma be real, Cross Classing always has the potential to explode in your face regardless how much you codify it, so I don’t think you can really playtest the Prototype’s Cross Classing Capabilities in a way that gives any new information apart from “yeah that was kinda swingy”

[vagrant grotto]

Legitimately the only feedback I'm taking on Prototype is its Novel Technology and optionals

[ashen crown]

Any reason for bumping the ghost HP? My exp so far has been “ghosts kinda deserve to eat shit” but that’s just me

[vagrant grotto]

crossclassing is a known voider of warranties

[vagrant grotto]

8/10/12 is still enough to make it easy to kill, but not trivial after a Ram/PuppetSystems

and if you overheat it then guess what, you'll probably still kill it

[ashen crown]

Oh that almost doubles it’s HP gosh damn

How come it’s HP scales? Even in the Kai rebake units like Hornets and Mirages have non-scaling HP and Ghost feels in line with them in terms of evasion

[vagrant grotto]

because its Evasion doesn't scale like Hornets and Mirages

it's +2 per tier

[muted blaze]

Lancer PPG playtest

<t:1768071600:F> or <t:1768158000:F>

PROFESSIONALLY HALF-BUILT

React ⚙️ if interested on Saturday
React 🐌 if interested on Sunday

4 Players, LL6. More info can be required if asked

[vagrant grotto]

@tame wharf

[muted blaze]

Ty

[ashen crown]

the Intangibility does a lot though, making it untargetable in a way that’s far more potent than the likes of invis or just keeping away

[tame wharf]

Fuckk I work then

[ashen crown]

(Again, at least in my experience)

[vagrant grotto]

well we're gonna see how it goes

Ghost is getting some meaningful changes and we're gonna find out if it's too rude afterwards

[tame wharf]

Literally that'd be two hours before my shift ends

[muted blaze]

Where we're going we don't need warranties

[umbral sluice]

guess this ghost change also makes it not uh, instantly implode upon seeing a calendula?

[vagrant grotto]

Newtonian Amplifier
System, Arcing, Grenade, Limited 1, Quick Action
Hostile characters directly above a Blast 2 area in Range 8 of must pass a HULL save or be IMMOBILIZED until the end of their next turn and be knocked PRONE.

[vagrant grotto]

This is also why I buffed its HP yeah

[vagrant grotto]

Removed the clarity and gonna move it to a FAQ entry

[muted blaze]

Can I suggest an easy wording fix?

[vagrant grotto]

go for it

[muted blaze]

"... then be knocked PRONE"

[vagrant grotto]

that's what I had before and someone said that they thought the Prone happened after Immobilized cleared

[muted blaze]

Oh yeah that was me 💀

Smooth brain moment

[ashen crown]

Eh, Intangibility is so rare I’m of the opinion that it should just explode when it sees a Calendula, like how a Hecatonchieres can just melt a Specter. But that’s just me

[vagrant grotto]

or like how a Swallowtail melts literally everything 💀

[ashen crown]

Oh that’s an interesting and significant change. More Grenades and Limited Systems are fun though!

… although now I’m wondering what it would look like as a Mine since NPCs get rare access to Mines (spacer being the only source outside of seeders) but that’s just a completely different thing

[muted blaze]

@tame wharf updated dates (Realised there's no reason for me to pick one day over the other)

[vagrant grotto]

I'm not salty about hearing my defenders get completely dismantled earlier, no....

[tame wharf]

Heck yeah

I can do Saturday

Where's the LCP for the Valk reworked rules

[tame wharf]

Also what LL is this combat at

[vagrant grotto]

https://github.com/msprijatelj/valk-lancer-houserules/releases/download/0.4.0/valk-lancer-houserules-0.4.0.lcp

[muted blaze]

6

[tame wharf]

Overkill
Change Overkill to the following:
When rolling damage with this weapon, you may choose to roll with OVERKILL. If you do, you must reroll any damage dice that land on 1. Additional 1s continue to be rerolled. After damage is applied, the attacker takes equal to the number of dice rerolled.

I assume this is supposed to say Heat?

[vagrant grotto]

Yes I copy pasted too hard

[tame wharf]

Lmao

Chomolungma Frame
Change Wide Area Code Pulse so that only a single Invade option is chosen and then applied to all targets.

This is a very fair balance as someone whose played quite a lot of Cho

[opaque crescent]

I believe it's more to speed up Cho turns

there's a lot of speeding up decision points in !V!

[tame wharf]

Don't worry I'll slow it down with my Overcharge spam Hydra build 😎

[muted blaze]

Have you read the !V! overcharge rules?

[opaque crescent]

overcharge doesn't give you extra actions in !V!

[tame wharf]

Oh shit

I must have missed that

Ahh, okay

I just misunderstood

[vagrant grotto]

Reckless Dive
Trait, Recharge 5+, Reaction
Trigger: A hostile character damages the Hatchet while one of its THROWN weapons is on the ground.
Effect: The Hatchet moves up to its SPEED directly towards one of its THROWN weapons. If the Hatchet ends its movement adjacent to its weapon, it retrieves the weapon, gains RESISTANCE to all damage from the triggering damage, and may SKIRMISH against the triggering character.

Reckless dive rework

[muted blaze]

I was gonna say "What's the counterplay" compared to before where the counterplay was not being next to a weapon... The counterplay slow them... Like barrel roll is worse lmao

[vagrant grotto]

The movement is also not safe

[muted blaze]

Ya

[vagrant grotto]

Should the trigger be:

A hostile character damages the Hatchet while one of its THROWN weapons is on the ground.

OR

A hostile character damages the Hatchet while one of its THROWN weapons is unretrieved.

[muted blaze]

Either work, second uses the same terminology as the thrown tag but IMO doesn't roll off the tongue as much

[umbral sluice]

is the skirmish intended to be able to be with any weapon?

bc as written it can retrieve and then skirmish with another thing

[opaque crescent]

Ravager Turret

[ashen crown]

Valk going to rename an ability for the 7th time

[steel apex]

Mirage rebake HP does scale, to be clear

You might be thinking of specters

Specters and Hornets are both units that, in terms of mechanical framework, are defined by enormously outsized "can't hit me" stats compared to basically everyone else, which is the reason I opted to preserve their non-scaling HP, a thing I generally don't try and do elsewhere

The Specter's evasion jumps by 4 points a tier, and the Hornet ends with Evasion 20, something I don't think any other NPC in the game has

To be clear, I think an argument could be made for raising specter HP across tiers and it it probably wouldn't really upset things that greatly, I simply elected not to do so because I felt it formed a distinctive facet for their identity in that regard

[vagrant grotto]

Yes any

[vagrant grotto]

Wait why

[ashen crown]

Meant it as a joke because rewording things keeps having to happen to make things do what they need to do

Ex. Reckless Dive allowing a Hatchet to reaction skirmish with Ravager Turret

[vagrant grotto]

Ah fuck

Well

This wouldn't be the only thing in PPG that allows a Reaction Skirmish

[vagrant grotto]

The Hatchet moves up to its SPEED directly towards one of its THROWN weapons. If the Hatchet ends its movement adjacent to its weapon, it gains RESISTANCE to the triggering damage, retrieves the weapon, and may SKIRMISH against the triggering character with that weapon.

there, fixed

Doubling Season and Rapid Refabrication are the last issues on the bug tracker

[vagrant grotto]

Doubling Season (Veteran)
Trait
REAP THE CHAFF may destroy two targets at a time. When the Occultist uses REAP THE CHAFF, it may deploy 1 FLOCK DRONE adjacent to itself as a free action for 1 Heat.

[umbral sluice]

im wondering if this needs the heat cost tbh

i guess to parallel the heat cost for deploying the drones in the first place?

[vagrant grotto]

yes exactly

[umbral sluice]

id want to see how this plays but i like it more conceptually already

it can do like. a Reap -> Darts loop every turn with this trait since it keeps making them

[tame wharf]

oh wait shit, i litearlly played against this guy. my gm brought out a Prisim and a Occultist for a sitrep she ran

[vagrant grotto]

yeah and it can do it consistently now instead of requiring it to kill 2 things

AGGRESSIVE REFABRICATION (ULTRA)
Trait
The Vulture may use “MAGPIE” SUBROUTINES as a full action. If it does, it gains the following option to destroy:
- A weapon or system equipped by an unwilling adjacent character; the character may attempt a HULL save to avoid this. On a successful save, the Vulture instead chooses a different option to destroy.

This is what I'm floating for the reworked Vulture Ultra trait

[ashen crown]

Oh that is terrifying

[vagrant grotto]

@muted blaze I'd love your eyes on this

[umbral sluice]

OH GOD

i love this conceptually though

oh, on a success, after the vulture chooses something else, can you try resist it with a hull save again? or does that just happen

[vagrant grotto]

I'm referring to the Destroy options in Magpie subroutines

[umbral sluice]

ooohhhhhh

im not sure is that an unclear wording or a "Cat cannot read again" moment

[vagrant grotto]

it's missing the bolding for the pseudo-keywords so that's not helping

[muted blaze]

Ok, so... Uuuh

What the fuck

That's kinda cool

[vagrant grotto]

AGGRESSIVE REFABRICATION (ULTRA)
Trait
The Vulture may use “MAGPIE” SUBROUTINES as a full action. If it does, it may choose the following option to destroy:
- A weapon or system equipped by an unwilling adjacent character, chosen by that character. The affected character may avoid this with a successful HULL save; if it does, the Vulture must instead choose one of the other options to destroy or lose this action.

A little nicer

[umbral sluice]

tbis reminds me of another ppg thing actually

what is it called

[vagrant grotto]

"Who gets to choose what gets destroyed" is up in the air atm

[muted blaze]

The upgraded grapple

[umbral sluice]

thats the one

[muted blaze]

It kind of puts the vibe of it into a much more aggressive controller esque style. Which is fine for an Ultra trait especially since ultra traits blur the lines of NPC classes anyway

[umbral sluice]

imo it should be the vulture, as if you let the player decide its always going to feel less impactful imo

[vagrant grotto]

okay, I destroy your Terashima blade unless you pass this Hull Save:

[umbral sluice]

like, a multi mounter is always getting rid of their worst weapon and never their useful ones

[vagrant grotto]

or "I destroy your Superheavy"

[umbral sluice]

yeah superheavies are the one kind of concerning thing with weapon/system destruction

i cant remember the Armament Redundancy wording

should it work on this?

oh its specificslly structure damage for that one

so no.

[muted blaze]

The thing is

What if an ultra vulture goes into a combat against an already injured party

In a one shot shattering a weapon is more or less fine

But if you break an armament redundancy sure... That's not too impactful, but 1 Repcap is still 1 Repcap. They're still vulnerable to taking further structure and getting a system trauma

[vagrant grotto]

Okay I'm leaving it, as victim's choice then

I could add an extra 2 self heat on it too

like I did before

[umbral sluice]

but the vulture chooses whether its weapons or systems right?

[vagrant grotto]

it does not

[umbral sluice]

oh i see

[vagrant grotto]

strictly victim's choice

[umbral sluice]

im not sure how to feel on that tbh

like, in my time i have seen a lot of "oh i have 1sp left over so im slapping EVA module onto there to absorb system trauma"

and id be afraid that sort of thing just completely nullifies this trait

[vagrant grotto]

worst case it's still 1 repcap getting eaten

[umbral sluice]

i have had a horrible idea to just let it eat your repair cap directly but thats probably not a thing you want to play with haha

[vagrant grotto]

I'm not opposed to it but I like it attacking an item instead

[umbral sluice]

i think i need to find an excuse to field this thing at some point bc i love the thematics of it

[vagrant grotto]

I am once again asking if I should remove the "Save vs." from "Save vs. Prone on collision" on Torrent

[vagrant grotto]

that's a decision I'll put off until next version

[vagrant grotto]

Update to v1.16.0!

[muted blaze]

Newtonian amplifier

Change from Recharge 6+ to Limited 1 with Grenade tag.
Add Arcing tag for ignoring line of sight.
Change from Burst 2 to Line 8 area.

This says line 8 area, didn't you say range + blast earlier?

[vagrant grotto]

Good catch, changelog wrong

[muted blaze]

Wait Mach parry didn't apply before damage before?

[umbral sluice]

oh wait

[vagrant grotto]

It always did, but it wasn’t clear to everyone

[umbral sluice]

what does the grenade tag actually do on NPCs

[vagrant grotto]

It’s mostly descriptive here

[umbral sluice]

ah i see

maybe theres some funny stuff to be done with an allied return to sender hatchet

[muted blaze]

Oh so you did go through with doomscroll as a check instead of save too

[vagrant grotto]

Yup

Anyway yeah lemme update my list

PPG optionals to test
Anchor

• [ ] Newtonian Amplifier
• [ ] Magnetic Reversal
  Capacitor
• [x]
  Ghost
• [ ] Superimpose Firmament
• [ ] String Theory Marionette
• [ ] Wavefunction Collapse
• [ ] Coherent Entanglement (ultra)
  Hatchet
• [ ] Reckless Dive
• [ ] Return to Sender
• [ ] Hurricane of steel (ultra)
  Kensei
• [ ] Mortal draw (ultra)
  Knight
• [x]
  Mesmerist
• [x]
  Napalm
• [x]
  Occultist
• [ ] Doubling season (vet)
  Prism
• [x]
  Torrent
• [ ] Provisional “Prone without save on collision”
  Vulture
• [ ] Aggressive refabrication (ultra)
  Zealot
• [x]

Also: keep me posted on whether Hero’s Banner is more of a liability than an asset (like if it’s more likely to shred the NPCs than protect them)

[umbral sluice]

uhhh, has it been renamed aggressive refabrication for the vulture or was that just a provisional name you sent earlier

[vagrant grotto]

Yes changed sec

[umbral sluice]

also, was Martyrdom tested at some point? i cant remember if it was

[vagrant grotto]

It was yeah

[umbral sluice]

ah sick

[vagrant grotto]

It’s easy to forget when it happens but it doesn’t break the bank

[umbral sluice]

as for the prototype template im assuming its just about everything optional in it atp?

[vagrant grotto]

Basically yeah

Same with Anomaly

[muted blaze]

Ok, updated the NPCs in the list with the updates

As funny as it is, I think I should axe the barrel roll berserker

Fairwell barrel roll berserker, gone but not forgotten

[ashen crown]

If they fight a Hatchet with Return to Sender, it’ll be very funny

[umbral sluice]

you'll never guess what my immediate next message was LMAO

[ashen crown]

I’ll reiterate that I think Newtonian Amplifier being a Mine could be interesting, however it’d also be a completely different thing

[umbral sluice]

like grounding mine type thing? could be interesting

[ashen crown]

Like the same effect but it’s placed as a mine and is triggered as a mine kinda situation- with all of Anchor’s movement manipulation it’d give it both controller elements and area denial as a defender while also comboing with its base kit

However a Grenade gives a KISS (keeps it simple stupid)

Anyhow, any reason for the Paradox State buff? That took me a bit by surprise- it was a pretty potent effect even with the heat and 50:50, but the change does at least streamline running the effect a lot more

[sudden cosmos]

I've never taken it for this exact reason.

That being said, I've not taken it, so

Feels like a build-around-me for an opfor where they won't get punished by being shredded or something along those lines

[ashen crown]

Hm. Which would be a more interesting NPC duo: Assassin and Kensei, or Hatchet and Ronin?

[vagrant grotto]

Because it’s easy to pop with a Lock On and has the possibility of doing the full nothing with a 50/50

[ashen crown]

Oh yeah, that is what happened in my playtest lol

[muted blaze]

Ultra vulture... Somewhat a middle ground between "you choose" and "it chooses"... What about if it was just a system trauma roll?

Devilish idea, force a structure check

Nvm because that could be used with default structure rolls

[umbral sluice]

me when the ultra forces me to roll snake eyes and i fucking die

[placid glacier]

😈 just saw the new list of things to test and I went back too see what the new ultra vulture trait was

[ashen crown]

Hey aren’t Newtonian Amplifier and Null-Grav just inverses of each other now?

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah true

I’m okay with it

Split Tesseract into 2 pieces for NPCs

[vagrant grotto]

Is this a good evil emoji or a bad one

In any case unrelated: Feeling good about the FAQ entries I added

They’re all having to do with weird CRB rules interactions more so than my NPCs (except prism) and slightly condensed wording

[placid glacier]

Good evil emoji- very exciting to jumpscare my players with the new ultra vulture

[ashen crown]

HA Anchor: Newtonian Amplifier, Null-Grav Motivator
SSC Anchor: Omninet Grounding, Magnetic Reversal

(Reality Anchor isn’t specific to either)

[placid glacier]

Smth smth flavoring an IPS-N Anchor utilizing powerful docking clamp magnets

[ashen crown]

That’s pretty cool acttually

[muted blaze]

Mmm, need one more person for PPG Playtest

[tame wharf]

This the one on Saturday?

At 1PM?

[muted blaze]

Ye

[opaque crescent]

won't be able to make this one, unfortunately

[umbral sluice]

barring an act of god i have my own lancer saturday

[vagrant grotto]

I have an irl thing, barring disaster

[ashen crown]

FUck it sign me up

(if there's space)

WHere are the deets on it again?

[ashen crown]

Found it with control F, anyway I'm signing up why not lol

[muted blaze]

Amazing 🫡

[ashen crown]

How long is it expected to be out of curiosity?

[muted blaze]

3-5 hours. Try keep it as fast as possible but you know how this stuff goes

[ashen crown]

I getcha lol

[muted blaze]

For the playtest ||I had a plan for a commander elite prototype support but realised it's budget isn't that far from an Ultra so I axed it for an Ultra vulture||

||Is supreme logistics too against the point on a Vulture???||

||It feels like it somewhat is||

[vagrant grotto]

||it's a legitimate choice, if you do it lemme know how it goes||

[muted blaze]

Fuck it sure

I'll do it

[vagrant grotto]

||self heat is still a limiter||

[muted blaze]

Yeah

||Also read the ultra feature and I'm so glad trash to treasure is ONLY on wrecks lmao||

[ashen crown]

Oh goodie! Spoiler tags I'm not allowed to click on for once!

Huh, how long has the Overcharge reset change been in place? Last I remember reading, it used to cost repairs to reset it during rests

[vagrant grotto]

still does?

1 repair to reset it

[ashen crown]

Oh I was reading the documentation and it says the counter just resets during a rest and full repair

[vagrant grotto]

PPG takes precedence

[ashen crown]

Ah okay, makes sense

[vagrant grotto]

my houserule docs are like, an alpha testbed

PPG is more refined

[ashen crown]

Huh, I never noticed the Valk change to lesson of disbelief. Any reason why it was changed? I always thought it was decently potent on its own.

[vagrant grotto]

Really? How often do you see it?

[ashen crown]

You got me there

[sudden cosmos]

I didn't even notice it was buffed until I saw it in the LL9 playtest and went "sure why not"

[ashen crown]

Gorgon stays winning

[sudden cosmos]

But I haven't used it outside of the rebalance stuff since usually I'm reaching for OpCal or Autostab

Because I am compelled to choose violence

[muted blaze]

Kinda want eyes up on my lineup for the playtest I'm running

||Extraction:

• Using Valk movement rules
• Spawn about 15 tiles away from objective
• About 23 tiles from extraction
• Start with no hostiles on board
• All hostiles are prototypes

Initial wave:
1x "RECYCLING POINT" Ultra vulture
Vulture: Jumpstart
Prototype: Chain surge, bleeding edge
Ultra: Supreme logistics, Aggressive refabrication, HOR_OS v?? Puppet crasher
(Testing Aggressive refab, supreme logistics and jumpstart with powerful recharge abilities)

1x Knight
Prototype: Roko class NHP
Hornet: Lock/Hold Javelins
(Testing Roko)

1x Assailant hornet
Prototype: AUNTIE-Augmented Minigun
Cataphract: Point defence shield
(Budgetted as DPS, testing minigun on a fast frame. Should potentially remove impale systems)

1x Vet Assassin
Vet: Self repair, Veterancy +AGI
Prototype: Rebaked bioplating, Antigrav uppercut
(I want to uppercut someone, leap and stab them in the air)

Remaining reinforcements:
1x Napalm
Napalm: Firefly drone
Bombard: Flare drone
2x Ghost
Ghost: String theory marionette
Prototype: Doomscroll
(want to test it on the Ultra or hornet. Also test doomscroll whilst intangible)
2x Occultist
Occultist: Scapegoat
Rainmaker: Hound missile
(Speaking of a drone Heca in the party. Feels shitty but might change it to have one of the commandeer ones to see it actually in play)
1x Knight
1x Vet assassin + Hornet (Might Axe assassin or hornet if the first is too much of a pain in the arse)||

[umbral sluice]

Al that's way too broken you couldnt

the ||test|| is far too much

[muted blaze]

S H U T

OH that's a big blob lmao!

||I should axe a defender and replace it and only have one... Question is which||

||Ultra Vulture rolls off the tongue so well||

[umbral sluice]

oh god ||Supreme Logistics Vulture||

that is high key scary

[vagrant grotto]

It is, but the testing must commence

The upside is that ||magpie still costs a quick and 2 heat ||

||So overuse it at your own risk||

Looking forward to hearing how the test goes!

[umbral sluice]

||Vulture has what, 8 heatcap? not at the computer atm||

[vagrant grotto]

Also: repeating my take from GM corner: Dusk Wing would’ve been dope with swallowtail’s CP instead

[vagrant grotto]

Correct

[umbral sluice]

so effectively it has 2-3 uses of ||Magpie before it has to stabilise, and thats not accounting for other heat gen like recharges or stray tech attacks, so honestly not as evil as i thought||

[vagrant grotto]

Cloudscout Tacsim Swarms
Active (1CP), Protocol
Gain a 6 Scout charges. For the rest of the scene, when an allied character consumes Lock On against a hostile character within your Sensors and line of sight, you may expend a Scout charge. If you do, the hostile character gains Lock On at the end of the current turn. This effect is not a reaction.

Idea for a substitute core power if I moved Swallowtail’s core to Dusk Wing

[muted blaze]

So you get 6 "infinite" lock ons

Quite the opposite of infinite lnao

[vagrant grotto]

I can reduce it if it’s too much, my brain defaulted to d6

[muted blaze]

Like, my main concern is running out of things tobapply it to if you're throwing locks out so frequently

But it's function fits much better

[vagrant grotto]

But yeah I’ve seen “free lock on” in action and it’s strong

Core tacsim is fascinating but also antisynergistic with its own kit

[muted blaze]

Shame because I really like the narrative flavour of the core

[vagrant grotto]

Because reactions and invis and all that

[muted blaze]

But liked that's fluff text

[muted blaze]

Mmm,

I think I just hate standing still enough that I never was invis from swallowtail

[vagrant grotto]

I mean, sure, same

But point stands

I just think Dusk Wing would just be more interesting with the mechanics of Tacsim as a CP, with a Mirage feel to it

[muted blaze]

Rather than the explosion map spam?

[vagrant grotto]

Yes, rather than the explosion map spam

[muted blaze]

And going mirage NPC style flavour rather than "actually is simulation"

[vagrant grotto]

I think if I had to keep hall of mirrors I’d make it like Manifest False Idols or something

It’s a neat effect on paper but in practice how often are you returning to where you already were in a sitrep

Maybe I’ve played too many escorts/gauntlets with Dusk Wing

[muted blaze]

Looks solid. Doesn't look busted, doesn't look bad

[muted blaze]

Control??? Holdout???

[vagrant grotto]

Solid is good

[muted blaze]

I think it'd either chew through all charges in a round or most in a combat

[vagrant grotto]

6 free lock ons is pretty sweet then

[muted blaze]

I think one of it's main potency can come from the ability to shred after not locking on for a turn

[ashen crown]

Athena

[muted blaze]

From any source rather than blast 2 (3?)

[ashen crown]

Fair

[vagrant grotto]

It’s funny because all the time I used Athena I never got someone to take Lock On from it

[muted blaze]

No lock onfor a round
Ally consumes lock on
Reapply
Apply shred

[muted blaze]

It either scares enemies like the plague or there's no one you can shred because everyone has lock on

[vagrant grotto]

Though maybe that was a combination of “fresh player” and “Interpoint”

[ashen crown]

Maybe I’m a bad tactician, but when it comes to sitreps with singular control zones the zone is often placed such that I need to choose between contesting the objective or not suffering the effects. The fact that the area is so big is a big deal tbh

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah it basically needs to be big in order to be threatening

[ashen crown]

I’ve been facing against an Athena for 3 missions, and the only sitreps I’ve been able to navigate around it are ones like Escort, with Control being a middle ground where only some enemies were affected rather than the entire OpFor

[muted blaze]

It's still so fucking useful if it doesn't apply lock on, because you're still winning because enemies aren't where they want to be

[ashen crown]

And scan

[muted blaze]

I think Athena's my favourite system in the game

[ashen crown]

An enemy doesn’t have to start or end their turn in the Athena, if it spawns on top of them it just scans them

[vagrant grotto]

Anyway, my brain is now going to Mesmerist-styled Dusk Wing alt frame

[ashen crown]

Oh that’d be cool

[vagrant grotto]

Swap Harlequin Cloak for Mirror Image

Change Hall of Mirrors to Tacsim

[ashen crown]

Honestly Dusk Wing’s kit is very Support/Defender-ish

[muted blaze]

Just go "fuck it alt frame" rather than rebalance base?

[ashen crown]

Or Conteoller defender, one of the two

[vagrant grotto]

Tbf rebalancing base is a kind of alt frame

[ashen crown]

Also it’s not like Dusk Wing sucks as a base kit

And there’s plenty of room for an alt frame now that I hear you say it

[vagrant grotto]

IMO it’s 90% defender and controller and very little support. Like yeah it’s support but it’s “make buddy harder to hit” which has big overlap with Defender and Controller

[ashen crown]

Exactly, one of the two

[muted blaze]

Whilst it moonwalks in the air

[vagrant grotto]

It doesn’t, I just don’t like Hall of Mirrors from a tracking standpoint

[muted blaze]

If your dusk wing isn't doing regular running animations whilst it's airborne what are you doing

[vagrant grotto]

In my lexicon of roles, it’s indirect support in that it keeps your allies alive longer, and thus maintains their action uptime. But that’s very different from the force multiplication of Swallowtail or Kidd’s FABI

So because SSC has very little in the way of Defender frames not named White Witch I’m happy to put my thumb on the scales

[ashen crown]

!V! Adaptive Reactor requires you to pick two separate options, and you're not allowed to pick one option twice, correct?

[ashen crown]

Also, is the intent of Autonomous Coordination that it may trigger off of Full Tech -> Double Quick Tech so long as those tech actions only target allies?

[umbral sluice]

actually rereading this i am curious, why the ||Napalm with two drones? that feels very tight on action econ||

[muted blaze]

||Throw them both out first round||

||2 QAs, 2 drones. If it deploys one it might as well deploy the other||

[umbral sluice]

hmmm i see the vision

putting the ||15 sensors to good use||

[muted blaze]

||MFing flare drone is range 25||

[umbral sluice]

||LMAO what||

[vagrant grotto]

I don’t see why you can’t pick the same one twice tbh

[ashen crown]

Oh that's neat, good to know!

[vagrant grotto]

I think? Not Maria so not sure

[ashen crown]

Oh that's Maria's Core Bonus? Didn't know

There's literally no Full Tech that targets allies in 1st party so I'm assuming that's how it's supposed to work

[steel apex]

I'm going to take the bold stance here, trying to not be as Hot Takey as I can while still delivering sincere opinions, and say: actually I think it might

I have spent a lot of time thinking about the Dusk Wing as a frame and as a license, and my ultimate conclusion is that I think the whole package is very incoherent

[ashen crown]

Yeah the Frame and License kinda have no direct synergy apart from good stats, that is true

[steel apex]

Framewise, it's weighted almost entirely on the back of "has innate hover flight," and then the license is a collection of things which, in isolation might be good, but in the package sense offer no real synergy either together or even with the frame itself