#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 20 of 1

ashen crown
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And it doesn't harm allies, unlike Atlas Missiles

granite saddle
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huh

sudden cosmos
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Yeah. Allies WANT to be in it for the OS

vagrant grotto
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Well, it’s a line 15 3 wide area so

sudden cosmos
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It's a lot of real estate!

ashen crown
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That's 5 burst 1 areas

vagrant grotto
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Yeah

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
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Reasonable

granite saddle
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Really opening my eyes there

vagrant grotto
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Gonna make it limited 1 and an innate full action to head off Volley Module

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Damage should be reasonable in that case, I think

ashen crown
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Dumb idea: If the Capacitor takes structure damage it regains a use.

Probably shouldn't do but idk I've always been attached to gimmicks like that and it makes more sense here than Evergaol

vagrant grotto
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“Safely Grapple into area” is valid feedback tho

granite saddle
ashen crown
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I'd say it's closer to ontolotactical array, which only regains charges if the ultra takes structure

granite saddle
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not really, they also regain those each time they end their turn without having made any attacks or forced any saves

muted blaze
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Rebake SCL

granite saddle
muted blaze
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I read can do yesah

ashen crown
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Anyway it's a strong enough effect + the Capacitor is low enough HP that I don't think that'll be a good idea lol

granite saddle
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Anyways yeah interested to see how limited 1 full action looks like

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We'll adjust from there if and when it's necessary

sudden cosmos
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but giving it an action econ cost would make sure that there wouldn't be any confusion with how it worked

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QA would probably be enough since it needs to have the skirmish to go along with it

vagrant grotto
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Thunderfall is a free action with the upfront skirmish in comparison, in a huge area

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So giving it a dedicated action cost sounds correct

placid glacier
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Ok so there was a little bit of role musical chairs where I took back over as GM halfway through but I do have feedback

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Player Side (LL6)
Standard Caliban, leaning more into Melee
Standard Pesilat
Drone Gilgamesh

Ghost

Player Side Feedback

  • Similar story as when I ran Mesmerist, just a preface for No-Sell mechanics like Invis being a sticking point
  • Mentioned the effect of Paradox State didn't feel as telegraphed as Invis or Deathcounter
  • Otherwise, did it's job well where it was annoying until the gimmick got figured out
  • Because of the presence of a Caliban, the Demolisher felt much more like a standard bonding target with regular weaknesses- but that's not the fault of the Ghost, that's Caliban being Caliban
  • Other GM was able to pick up Ghost much easier than I thought she would, if anything said that the Ultra Ghost felt underwhelming with the lack of things to do on its turn, with a lot of its power in off turn effects
  • Was pushed off the Demolisher in a punishable way near the end of the encounter, was able to weasel away though and bond with the engineer for the final turn
  • Although the players said it felt like the Ultra Ghost was "just kinda there", I really appreciated how much the Intangible let me move the OpFor around (other GM used the intangiblity to avoid a mine, I used it twice to avoid engagement)
  • never really felt in danger of overheating but that was probably due to
    a. Coherent Entanglement saving action costs
    b. It being Tier 2
    c. The next point...
  • Even with the Demolisher consistently threatening the control zone, most of the party didn't really bother attacking the Demolisher, just got softened up by the Caliban player over and over again, similar pattern with the Mesmerist once again where. the party just decided to play around rather than deal with the dodge tank enemy
muted blaze
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Got some after thoughts on the Zheng (My overall reception is still quite positive)

One thing I noticed about the Zheng is with the fact I could after attack break a rock nearby that does knockback and 1d6 Kinetic. CRB Xioali's tenacity is extra damage but can still trigger reactions and such, whereas the destruction on attack doesn't feel like much of a conditional outside of "the enemy ends their movement nearby a size 1 or weaker cover" which in my experience isn't that rare. So it feels like somewhat the new Zheng has a 1d6 bonus damage trait which it doesn't need with a heavy mount. I think it's somewhat comparable to the Caliban which has hull save or 1d6 damage + Impaired. Just without the impaired or hull save

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Long story short, the cost for 1d6 bonus damage feels cheaper than before, so IMO it feels that the trigger for the damage should be harder or not as good. I won't be surprised if even 2 bonus damage wouldn't be too bad

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Then the core power can boost the damage up potentially

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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I do fail to see how that’s any different from core Zheng

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The movement part isn’t necessary so if the rock is adjacent no reactions triggered

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And destructive swings + TSS 1 makes adjacent rocks

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And the enemy could always just be hiding next to a rock

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  • it’s a separate source of damage, which is important when it comes to armor calcs
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Core Zheng equally has the “destroy nearby rock to deal 1d6 damage + Knockback 1 in aoe”

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If anything the new version requiring an attack makes it harder to use

vagrant grotto
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Oh hey look Tiger Hunter being usable while Jammed is helping with Destructive Swings damage uptime here

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#calculated

ashen crown
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Yeah on that topic stuff that would prevent new Destructive Swings from triggering does nothing to mitigate Xiaoli’s Tenacity, so yeah this is strictly worse when it comes to raw damage output

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Which is, ya know, the point

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Like the only thing that comes to mind that would stop Tenacity but not stop Destructive Swings is Bracing

muted blaze
ashen crown
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The use of “may” makes the movement optional

image0.jpg
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You can use tenacity while slowed or immobilized

vagrant grotto
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That’s a #rules-questions thing

muted blaze
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Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I guess you're right

vagrant grotto
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But yeah I’m reading it like asquared here

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Perf

muted blaze
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I don't like that ruling but that isn't a here thing to talk about

ashen crown
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If anything that makes the Valk change slightly nicer in that regard

muted blaze
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Yeah

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lmao

ashen crown
muted blaze
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In which case... My point still somewhat stands about it feeling like a bonus damage trait on something with a heavy mount... But IG that's also a complaint about the base Zheng so I don't really think that's under Valks remit too much

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Might be a weird thing where Zheng is just about as good as the map is dense. And dense maps seem to be frequent or popular especially since well... JK 1 was made under the assumption that you couldn't bolt to the other side of the map in a turn

ashen crown
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To be fair dense maps are also more fun when you don’t factor those in- at least in Zheng’s case it’s license + traits play a role in mitigating that requirement fairly well

muted blaze
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Alas... You are right that the base Zheng can do what I said, the stuff I said earlier can be taken with a grain of salt more than before

sand mulch
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has anyone tried the anamoly template? what do you think? i'm considering replacing an eidolon fight with anamoly NPCs, or at least a few of them, because i don't think eidolons are fun 😅

placid glacier
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I have done that exact thing before- it was a few versions ago but anomaly has been largely unchanged since then save for a minor balancing thing with the funni ushabti knife I'm forgetting the name of rn

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Hold on lemmie find my feedback from that encounter in here

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^

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I think other people have also run a full anomaly encounter since this so I know it does work

sand mulch
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unsure if that would be too much or not, they have some pretty game changing abilities

ashen crown
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I have the worst luck with PPG templates for the most part so for the one anomaly I’ve run I can say nothing

ashen crown
placid glacier
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Oh yeah- when I had control of the thing it felt fine

Tossed out a couple frag sigs and the players were like. Pretty much permanently locked on

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Tbh I mostly didn't use paradox state on turn- I'm sure that would change with different features tho

ashen crown
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Out of curiosity I didn’t see anything about the Ultra trait- any thoughts on that?

placid glacier
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Ah- I guess I phrased it a bit badly in my original message but uuh it basically made Paradox State feel like invis

and since the main attacker was the caliban if a good hit got landed, it turned off the Intangible invis

muted blaze
ashen crown
placid glacier
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Realizing that I remembered to apply heat to the ghost but not the host oops

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But even still- the fact that it even did have the no sell roll just dettered attacks in the first place

ashen crown
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Did paradox state ever trigger on non attacks?

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Since it does trigger on all hostile actions it felt worth asking

placid glacier
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I think one turret drone attack but it was a low roll so it went through

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But for future reference would that also apply to to things like lock on?

muted blaze
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I'm fairly sure yeah

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I think it can technically bounce a scan

umbral sluice
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it can bounce a scan yes

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i've done that to turn off paradox state in a valk playtest

sand mulch
muted blaze
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||You could probs have an Ultra anomaly and some goons||

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Harbinger on an Ultra deathmatch could be fun

sand mulch
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i was thinking of running multiple fights

muted blaze
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That could also work

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||IK the early drafts had B1 as a Witch but like, you changed B1 so like... Your game on whatever the fuck B1 is 😛||

vagrant grotto
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lol just realized Knight's sword was still +2/4/6 base attack bonus on the LCP

muted blaze
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That explains the 27 to hit in my game

sand mulch
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ultra ghost doesn't sound interesting

umbral sluice
muted blaze
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27 to hit not +27 to hit crylaughing

umbral sluice
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guh you know what i mean

muted blaze
sand mulch
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yes

sudden cosmos
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I used a set of anomaly NPCs for a final fight before the party faced daddy issues 9000

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and they uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh clapped the party's cheeks

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extrude knife hatchet is goofy

vagrant grotto
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Thunderfall (Ultra)
System, Arcing, Limited 1, Full Action
Mark a Line 15 path along the ground and all spaces adjacent to it for thunderfall, which is visible to all characters. At the end of the next round, the marked area detonates with the following effects:
• Hostile characters in the detonation gain LOCK ON and must pass an AGILITY save or take 8/12/16 Energy damage, half on success.
• Non-DRONE allies in the detonation gain OVERSHIELD 4/6/8.
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what's the vibe on this Thunderfall revision

sudden cosmos
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Making it its own action makes it less of a "hey does this work with volley module" sorta thing, though I think it could be a QA at Limited 1

vagrant grotto
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The full action fits what I wanted more

muted blaze
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MMO Raid boss attack

vagrant grotto
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moved the Knockback on Knight's sword to Sweeping blows, LCP fixed the attack bonus, otherwise it's unchanged (still locks on, still shreds the Duel opponent)

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I think it's time to cut a release

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
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New release is on DTRPG but I'm delayed on itch because my deployment tool is out of date: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/485471/prototype-pattern-groups

Prototype Pattern Groups - Train Lightning | DriveThruRPG

Prototype Pattern Groups is a third-party supplement for Lancer that introduces over a dozen experimental NPC classes, several variant NPC templates, and a collection of optional rules to tweak the default Lancer combat experience. True to the name, many of these rules and NPCs are in development, and will change based on user feedback!
The new ...

opaque crescent
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Is there a changelog available anywhere? Alg if not

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
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Lots of optionals to test now

muted blaze
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Ooh

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Pprototybe

sudden cosmos
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I've got a 4p test in line for next weekend. Guessing there's some prototype stuff to throw into it.

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Do we have an updated testing checklist after this weekend's antics?

vagrant grotto
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Stealth update, redownload the PDF

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just a Table of Contents fix

vagrant grotto
# sudden cosmos Do we have an updated testing checklist after this weekend's antics?

Anchor

  • [ ] Newtonian Amplifier
  • [ ] Magnetic Reversal
    Capacitor
  • [x]
    Ghost
  • [ ] Superimpose Firmament
  • [ ] String Theory Marionette
  • [ ] Maxwell’s Demon (vet)
  • [ ] Coherent Entanglement (ultra)
    Hatchet
  • [ ] Rocket Bola
  • [ ] Reckless Dive (updated)
  • [ ] Return to Sender (updated)
  • [ ] Hurricane of steel (ultra)
    Kensei
  • [ ] Gaussian Blur
  • [ ] Mortal draw (ultra)
    Knight
  • [x]
    Mesmerist
  • [ ] Mountebank’s Jaunt
    Napalm
  • [x]
    Occultist
  • [ ] Doubling season (vet)
    Prism
  • [ ] Scintillating gleam
    Torrent
  • [x]
    Vulture
  • [ ] Rapid refabrication (ultra)
    Zealot
  • [x]
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Torrent may get revisions on Wash Away and Crashing Tsunami at some point (they don’t fully satisfy me right now) but for now they’re okay

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Gimme Anchors, Ghosts, and Hatchets

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oh, I guess Prism with new Diffraction Beam, but that'll get picked up if someone runs Scintillating Gleam at some point on the new patch

placid glacier
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oooh 1.14

muted blaze
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Oh locomation shift looks fun

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My 4 speed demolisher (or 5 with brisk)

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Wait it can still melee in that form

placid glacier
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Oh my fucking God that's hilarious

muted blaze
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BEEP BEEP MOTHERFUCKEEEEER

umbral sluice
placid glacier
vagrant grotto
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Let the Demolisher hit someone with the battering ram

ashen crown
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Not Ghost feedback but ghost related; I previewed next combat to my players and showed off the Phase Shift trait did for clarification. We then spiraled into 5 minutes of circular arguing about when exactly the ghost was and was not intangible and some of us got comedically tilted about it. It was hilarious, especially considering it was not that complicated lmao.

placid glacier
placid glacier
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this might be more oriented towards #rules-questions but

does jockeying with the V!Atlas count as grappling or are they two separate things for the purposes of systems that mention grappling? (SMN, TSS 2, etc.)

ashen crown
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Different thing

placid glacier
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makes sense

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was thinking about something really fucking stupid with Falling Star module from Pesilat but alas

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also does anyone have the unified valk rework lcp? I wanted to try something

vagrant grotto
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See the downloads under Assets

vagrant grotto
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The goal of the “before the first turn” wording is so folks don’t fuckin nuke it on spawn

ashen crown
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No yeah the joke is that it’s really that simple and yet we kept arguing about it lmao

sudden cosmos
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I wonder if there was a wording that that caused that

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Since that's usually want causes those sorts of things at my table

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But reading the ability, I don't see where the ambiguity is

sudden cosmos
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Plus some prototype optionals, but that's still TBD since I'm reviewing them

ashen crown
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And also just confusion on “wait so when can we attack it?”

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It was really dumb literally no fault of the text we were all just collectively a dumbass lmao

vagrant grotto
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Everything else I’m not really too worried about, tbh

Anomaly and Brigand were the ones really pushing the envelope; Prototype is tame in comparison as a lot of its tools are inspired from existing player mech stuff

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I’m sure someone will find I missed something though lol

placid glacier
# placid glacier also does anyone have the unified valk rework lcp? I wanted to try something 
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Atlas 2, SSC Black Witch 1, C&H KALLARANI 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Crash Bars, !V! Full Subjectivity Sync
[ TALENTS ]
  Giant Killer 3, Drone Commander 2, Combined Arms 2, Centimane 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:0 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:11 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:8 EVA:18 EDEF:8 SENSE:5 SAVE:15
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: !V! Nexus (Hunter-Killer)
  MAIN MOUNT: Kraul Rifle
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Ferrous Lash, Saboteur Drone, Turret Drones x5, Spider Charges x4, Personalizations```

weird fucking Drone Commander/Jockeying hybrid V!Atlas
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The Hydra is on your back and Hates You

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Tbh I don't even know if the spider charges are worth the 2sp but I don't really. Know what else to use that 2sp for

sudden cosmos
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I was speaking in GM chat about having a faction intrude on a fight between the NPCs and the initial opfor and I think I've found the perfect intruder.

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Who but a vulture to try and claim some scraps sicko

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Plus, it will be really funny to have this thing show up, barf on the battlefield, then dive into it and hide.

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It'll be a great way to have my players be IMMEDIATELY concerned about what this thing is

placid glacier
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I'm debating between Drone Commander 3 or Giant Killer 3 for which will get more mileage...

opaque crescent
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Working through anomaly features and infinitely glad that negative armour values do in fact increase damage taken in foundry 🙏

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does break with ap/shredded though, c'est la vie

opaque crescent
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Might sneak some PPG playtesting into my game this friday with [IGF]||Bad Star fight coming up|| 👀

vagrant grotto
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Hella

ashen crown
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I had a thought on the Lesson of TTT discussion a while back that could be relevant to the Valk Take on it, mind if I bring it up?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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So the earlier version that was discussed played with the concept of making a dedicated integrated weapon for TTT to make it work. The reasoning for this was partially so that HORUS licenses wouldn’t need to just be locked into GMS weapons when it comes to using TTT, at least without other manufacturers.

That kinda made me realize: TTT would be significantly better if there was more than 1 non-superheavy melee weapon in the HORUS licenses. Therefore, one of the fundamental issues with TTT is that the manufacturer it’s in simply does not support the Core Bonus adequately. The combo may not be flawed, but rather the limited scope of equipment available. Or at least the combo would be less flawed if there was more equipment available.

Maybe this is known, but from what I remember of the discussion that wasn’t explicitly brought up.

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It’s also not necessarily the most actionable issue unless you had in mind specific pieces of HORUS equipment that could be fixed by being turned into melee weapons. Which you might, idk if you do.

opaque crescent
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Dropping a playtest interest thing here for <t:1766257200:F> while I remember to. Date/time is also flexible, let me know if people would prefer somewhen else. React if interested, please :)

vagrant grotto
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reCaste is cool and based and her Foundry setup is similarly cool and based

vagrant grotto
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Monitor Module sticks out immediately, maaaaaybe a Manticore CQB weapon could become melee, Minotaur's completely missing a melee, and you could maybe add Melee to Mimic Gun for the funni

But honestly the only thing I'd find compelling is Monitor Module getting replaced since it's basically SCYLLA-lite

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altogether I'm not compelled to replace anything like I would with Kai's take on Barb's Flak gun

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so honestly, I'd seriously consider giving TTT a hexblade of some sort

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
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clearly we need to just setup a weekly thing already

haha jk... unless 👀

umbral sluice
opaque crescent
vagrant grotto
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me checking the pronouns fields: "okay got it boss"

ashen crown
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Aaand you said that later- oops

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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There are instances of that to be fair, but Neurolink Targeting + Gyges Frame are much broader than TTT

vagrant grotto
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Neurolink is also for Ranged weapons, of which there are like 5 types

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So yeah broader

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Much broader

ashen crown
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Both are always active as well, wheras TTT relies on good Systems as well as a melee weapon

vagrant grotto
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And IPSN is a manufacturer that packs like, a melee weapon every other license

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Even the damn Lancaster has a melee weapon

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Yeah, so that’s why I’m more open to it providing an integrated melee

ashen crown
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It’s probably the best approach you could take given the circumstances but it does feel a bit like putting a Band Aid on a bullet hole

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I almost feel like giving TTT to SSC would do more to help it than anything

sudden cosmos
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Idk if it's been pointed out, but it seems the PPG 1.14 PDF still says champion's greatsword has knockback 2

ashen crown
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Since SSC has both melee weapons in abundance and decent systems passed around its frames (Mourning Cloak primarily)

vagrant grotto
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At least the LCP is correct

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May push a pdf fix

steel apex
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I think that if a core bonus wants to push a specific gameplay thing regarding specific attack types, it needs to support that a bit more robustly out of the box

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like one of my big issues with the "two NHPs" core bonus is it doesn't do anything on its own

ashen crown
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I feel like having equipment dependent core bonuses isn’t necessarily a bad thing

vagrant grotto
steel apex
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core bonuses that are just "containers" are, imo, not good design, and while TTT isn't quite in that ballpark, it doesn't do anything unless you build to very specific tolerances, and those tolerances aren't even supported BY the extant horus licenses

steel apex
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a core bonus, imo, should not oblige you to also take additional gear just to make it work

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you can take gear to SYNERGIZE with it sure, but a core bonus on its own should be broad and as standalone as possible

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this is why I don't think much of "gain +X SP" as a core bonus

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"take two NHPs" is a particular standout weird one because in order to accomplish literally anything to make the core bonus worthwhile, you HAVE to spend 2-3 additional SP AND invest what's likely going to be three whole other license levels outside of the ones it took to get the core bonus

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(this is sort of a similar issue I have with iconoclast, the talent)

vagrant grotto
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yeah no I think I'd sooner nix the extra NHP on shaping and just leave the Bonus NHP stuff to the talents

steel apex
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now I don't think melee attacks are quite in that same ballpark because everyone has access to the GMS catalogue, but then it sort of comes back to "is the purpose of TTT to gain paracausal damage on a GMS tactical melee?"

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for a core bonus that basically obliges you to follow a very particular playstyle (a specific tech-attack-then-melee-attack loop), the reward is weirdly both kind of good but also kind of a big nothing within the spate of horus licenses themselves

ashen crown
# steel apex I do given the majority of core bonuses aren't

I don’t think I’d count Integrated Weapon or Mount Retrofitting as “container” core bonuses, but would you consider Improved Armament- another container core bonus- to be on a comparable tier to ones like Lesson of Shaping in terms of “container” core bonuses?

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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I think I know how I want to go about TTT changes if I make them

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for now, I'm more interested in a different issue: If I missed any other typos in my 1.14 PDF or LCP 😭

ashen crown
umbral sluice
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i uh, cant really think of one beyond Iconoclast Maxxing

ashen crown
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Mainly mixing NHP abilities, and I suppose using exotic gear

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Ex. Uncle + Scylla, or Uncle + Sisyphus

vagrant grotto
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"I run ASURA and SEKHMET simultaneously"

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or ASURA and anything really

ashen crown
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Or Uncle and anything

umbral sluice
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ah yeah

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i guess i havent seen high enough LL lancer where that becomes a thing

vagrant grotto
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"I pick an action-economy-breaking AI and a different AI"

ashen crown
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I’m thinking of specifically uses with HORUS NHPs

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Scylla + Noah if you want max reactions in exchange for slag in place of your reactor

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Genuinely there is utility in mixing NHPs, even beyond just ASURA + anything, but again, are those really worth the loss of a less demanding core bonus?

vagrant grotto
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If copilots were more available at GMS-tier I'd consider leaving it alone

steel apex
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it's definitely a core bonus I feel is significantly less impactful than something like +5 HP or +1d6 damage or flight or immunity to Impaired or etc

ashen crown
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Fair point, tho I think Mount Retrofitting existing for the 3 mount frames feels fair-ish

steel apex
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lesson of shaping gives you nothing for free, it actively costs you more SP and license levels to even get any use out of it

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TTT doesn't TECHNICALLY cost you anything, but the dynamics of it are so weirdly specific that it basically mandates some sort of investment either in actual licenses or opportunity costs

vagrant grotto
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With the introduction of the Prototype template, the alphabetizing of my layout is out of whack. So I'm renaming Tempered lol

image.png
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ironically a synonym for "cool" or "chilled" is "brisk" crylaughing

ashen crown
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Lmao

vagrant grotto
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Also: I'm throwing my hat in the ring

image.png
umbral sluice
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more grunts!!! yay!

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i cant wait

muted blaze
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Oh?

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👀

placid glacier
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👀

opaque crescent
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👀

minor crest
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👀

vagrant grotto
opaque crescent
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Do members of a formation share the same space?

granite saddle
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No

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Also,

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👀

steel apex
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"four independent identical characters" is pretty self-explanatory

vagrant grotto
# 
The Formation is composed of four independent, identical characters, each with their own space and statistics. Each member gains the following characteristics:```
opaque crescent
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It feels like it's just quadruple the grunts with less actions

steel apex
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yeah

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that's exactly it

granite saddle
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Yeah, which I think is intended

steel apex
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it's taking one unit and distributing its footprint

# 
plate is that it's simultaneously meant to encapsulate
30+ distinct NPC classes, none of which were designed
with "being grunts" in mind. This makes creating and
assigning grunts to an OPFOR a much more difficult task
than many GMs assume, which inevitably leads to the
extremely common occurrence where a new GM goes
"oh, Assault Grunts, I can use these as filler" and adds
a half dozen of them, unaware that what they've actually
created is a distributed Assault that gets to shoot six
times per round.```
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the problem with grunts in the CRB is they're a form of unbounded multiplicative action scaling (among other things)

muted blaze
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So one "formation" is just 4 NPCs, but only one can attack or hack or whatever at a time?

steel apex
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"I use six assault grunts" would you give a non-grunt Assault NPC the ability to make six attacks per round?

vagrant grotto
steel apex
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formations are basically "I can position this one gruntified Assault across the map in various places, but I can't shoot four times per round with them"

vagrant grotto
#

they're all individuals who can be targeted and affected separately but have to "share the rock" as it were

muted blaze
#

Interesting...

vagrant grotto
steel apex
#

you can have formation grunts stand on multiple objective points, you can threaten attacks from various angles and ranges, one can interfere with the payload while another one shoots a guy while a third one hacks someone else, etc

muted blaze
#

So like, only one may overwatch per round?

vagrant grotto
#

correctamundo

placid glacier
#

warranty voiding idea that is definitely not intentional (might have to have some trait that's like 'this template is equivalent to grunt in respects to interactions with other templates or classes')

steel apex
#

hang on I actually wrote something about this too

placid glacier
#

MBT Formation

cursed-tank-concepts-ik-its-not-monday-v0-41mqzf0brc9d1.webp
steel apex
#

Splitting an enemy up into multiple bodies means that damage that might otherwise obliterate a single pool of HP can be negated (that is, if you attack a unit with 5 HP and do 12 damage to it, 7 damage is lost to the aether rather than having any effect), it reduces the impact of control effects such as status conditions because only one body can be affected at a time, and multiple bodies can cover multiple parts of the map at once.

#

what this sort of thing basically does is turn grunts from a more offensively-oriented thing (multiple actions at the same potency) and turn it more defensive (more bodies, each of which has to be killed, bigger footprint, etc)

#

it's grunts-as-a-tar-pit

granite saddle
ashen crown
steel apex
#

Each member has its own standard movement

granite saddle
ashen crown
#

I keep missing things despite going back to check 🤦‍♂️

opaque crescent
#

On the note of trample though

#

cataphracts are very scary like this

vagrant grotto
#

Revised:

image.png
steel apex
vagrant grotto
#

yeah the benefit there would be spreading the trample around

steel apex
#

"abilities with expendable uses" explicitly mentions 1/scene stuff and I have no reason to believe 1/round or 1/turn would be any different

opaque crescent
steel apex
#

the best way to look at formations is "what if you took one NPC's worth of NPC and spread it across four bodies"

vagrant grotto
#

if "everyone has their own standard movement" is too much, I'll consider changing it to "if two or more members are adjacent to each other, they may all move together with the same movement"

placid glacier
#

I mean condensing the overhead of 4 grunt movements into one turn is already nice

ashen crown
granite saddle
# vagrant grotto Revised:

Last thing is that it's somewhat strange with is barrage-enabled NPCs : can't have multiple guys shoot different weapons, if you barrage they're all coming from the same guy.
Not necessarily a bad thing, though.

vagrant grotto
#

seems fine

opaque crescent
#

To clarify before I continue to ask question and pick into this: I like this idea for people that use grunts more (I tend to avoid them regardless when considering custom opfors)

#

Dataveil?

#

Does a formation get 4 of them to give away?

#

or does giving away one take it away from all

steel apex
#

seems like, at a glance, it would fall under "lasting effects"

#

same as assassin's mark

#

if you share dataveil, all four grunts lose it

#

and you can only share it once

#

etc

muted blaze
#

My mind thinks formation NPCs will fall short on guys who want to pop an a distinctive action like an aegis. With the first popping an aegis bubble and the rest twiddling their thumbs waiting for their chance on the bubble

This isn't a problem at all, just an observation

vagrant grotto
#

yeah, for that I suppose there's Grunts

muted blaze
#

Yeah ofc

#

Like, this is grunts+ it means I can spam people without having 4 grunt assaults. If 3 of the formation die you're left with a regular grunt

#

Which is better than 4 grunts... Which is good

steel apex
#

fundamentally, any grunt hack that isn't bespoke is going to have to wrestle with the fact that you can't universalize a solution that covers 30 different guys

#

so you kinda just have to pick your poison

vagrant grotto
#

only changes are a PDF fix for the Knight's Champion's Greatsword (removed erroneous Knockback 2 tag), renaming Tempered to Chilled, and adding the Formation template

placid glacier
#

oop

muted blaze
#

WOAH

#

HOLY SHIT TWO CAKES!?!?

vagrant grotto
#

There are now 15 competing standards

muted blaze
#

I'll have them all in one sitrep

vagrant grotto
#

CRB Grunts, Rebake Grunts, Conscripts, Legionnaires, Crisis Catalog Squadrons, Frontline Platoons, and Mfecane Pt. 2 Buthakas, and PPG Formations all walk into a bar

#

they die instantly

umbral sluice
muted blaze
#

A monarch pops ult

umbral sluice
#

(they all succeed the save)

opaque crescent
#

an iskander pops ult and they are stuck in the bar

sudden cosmos
#

A gorgon pops ult and they're stunned. A sunzi pops ult and they're sent so far away from the objective that they're irrelevant for the rest of the combat. Etc.

ashen crown
#

A Zheng pops ult and they’re just dead.

vagrant grotto
#

yes we've established these are a bunch of mooks lol

#

anyway if anyone tests these suckers lemme know

sudden cosmos
#

It's gonna be a couple months for me.

#

But someday I will use a squad!

granite saddle
#

Noooooo !!1!1!!1!! my perfect streak.... ;.. . . .. .. . ..

image.png image.png
#

(greatly exaggerated, I had the pdf on my phone so it's fine)

velvet cairn
vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
#

The one where you had us refusing bombs

#

Planting bombs*

vagrant grotto
#

One of Al’s IGF maps, cropped

#

Al uses Inkarnate

velvet cairn
#

How good is dungeon draft for making sci-fi maps?

vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
#

It depends on the asset packs you use (and also their licensing)

#

Some people have great sci-fi packs but they're for private use only

#

Always check the cc license type/other conditions of use yay

sudden cosmos
#

@vagrant grotto any NPCs you wanna see tested alongside ghost?

vagrant grotto
#

Hatchet

sudden cosmos
#

Any interactions you're looking at in particular?

vagrant grotto
#

well, I guess mostly I want Hatchet data too lol

#

uhh lemme think about weird combos

sudden cosmos
#

Core NPCs preferred but I'm flexible.

vagrant grotto
#

Archers and Sentinels

#

Witches

#

Controllers and Defenders that don't care as much about half damage/heat/burn on their turn

#

Archers and Sentinels because they have off-turn reactions, Witches and Hornets because their big effects aren't necessarily heat/damage

dapper goblet
#

We have a data needed checklist up to date? Plotting my next combat

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
#

I think i can work in an anchor and some hatchets

vagrant grotto
#

yeah the Anchor stuff was lightly reworked in v1.14, in a way that they're different enough to warrant testing

dapper goblet
#

Any particular optional/template configuration?

muted blaze
#

(That should just be pinned lmao /j)

vagrant grotto
#

I think technically Discord finally divorced Pinning privileges from Message Deletion privileges, so maybe someone can bring up with a mod if the Content Creator role could gain Pinning privileges in third-party-forum?

#

Also I guess I could just request it once and then edit the pin multiple times

vagrant grotto
#

Also note: Anchor's baseline Gravity Cannon is now strictly knockback, and it applies Impaired instead of save vs. prone on collision

#

Basically its updates are more about Keep Out than before

#

Unrelated: I think I realized a snag about object-like objectives

#

knockback isn’t restricted to characters

#

Neither is Spacer’s Gravity Rifle for that matter…

dapper goblet
#

Can you not just... write them as immune to non-dragging involuntary movement?

vagrant grotto
#

objects in general? probably

#

a lot of this is me trying to refine the general object+lift/drag rules so that they play nice with the concept of being moved around

dapper goblet
#

Seems like it groks ok to me anyway

#

Like blasting a car with a shotgun won't move it in a way id expect it to move a bipedal thing

opaque crescent
#

this is the greatest plaaaaaannn

image.png
umbral sluice
#

me setting up the fucked up knockback 13 dd288 just to destroy the objective instantly

muted blaze
#

"Watch this!"

Applies 13 knockback to the point

Deals 50 AP Explosive to the point

vagrant grotto
#

it's more an issue on NPC side of things

muted blaze
#

It could probably can be fixed with "Enemies will not perform hostile actions on the point" or smthn???

sudden cosmos
#

Rebake sentinels are size 2 Omoshiroi

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Yeah

#

I mean I'm fully under the impression that NPCs shouldn't be able to move escort objectives at all because the sitrep will differ wildly based on the NPC comp, like an elite cataphract can be absulutely harsh with little retaliation compared to if there were only single activation max 4 or 5 speed opfor. This will deffo not help that variance

vagrant grotto
#

then a lot of this contestation stuff and targeting objects stuff would be moot

#

just grab the fool

#

and if you need to hand it off, do that as a protocol or quick action (giving or taking)

#

keep the same "no teleporting with objects" rule though

muted blaze
#

You mean as in the rules in the house rule doc?

vagrant grotto
#

as in my house rules yes

#

can't let Sunzi get away with sports crimes

muted blaze
#

I'm not disagreeing with that at all lol

vagrant grotto
#

yeah no not saying you are

#

I'm just saying that "objective as its own lil object with its own lil space" is... cute but is kinda the source of all this consternation

#

in games like Halo, the objective is a flag or bomb that you carry but slows you down

#

in games like TF2 and Overwatch, the objective is a heavy payload that moves at a fixed speed

#

At least maybe I add a rule that makes objects immovable if they’re grabbed

muted blaze
#

The point I was making is, in tf2 or halo only 1 team can carry the bomb/flag/objective. If the flag is dropped it stays there forever, it expires or if the objective is grabbed again. Knockback can apply and I think it's neat if you want to ram the objective over the finish line. But in halo say, I can't gravity hammer the bomb off the map to a point as an attacker it's impossible to grab

#

So with the immovable thing, I think we can agree

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah, I think we’re on the same page

#

I think where I’m at right now is if an object is handled, it can’t be forcibly moved

And if an object is forcibly moved, it takes 1 AP damage per space moved

granite saddle
#

I mean, I really like your object objectives rules and general handling rules for the versatility they give to do new and interesting sitreps (see : the playtest I did with bombs ticking a timer down that you could also escort to create more. You know the one.); but maybe yeah having a more standard "flag" system for general escorts and extractions could benefit those more than adding another moving part to the combat

vagrant grotto
#

I just also think that carrying shit in your space is a solved problem in RPGs

muted blaze
#

Wait a minute

#

Xnopyt potato, does the Prototype or the target dictate who to pass the tech action onto?

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

And it can be hostile crylaughing

#

So it basically ping pongs between enemies and allies crylaughing

#

I thought it only ping ponged between PCs lmao

umbral sluice
#

@vagrant grotto any kensei optionals yet to be tested? I'm going to run one in my next fight and wondering if I should do a specific optional there

vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

oh look at that, i was already thinking of gaussian blur, thank you!

vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

now i just need to figure out a way to shoehorn Prototype Template into igf... because that stuff looks really fun

ashen crown
#

||or anything SSC/HA related||

umbral sluice
#

hmm, i could do that yeah

ashen crown
#

I was planning to

sudden cosmos
sudden cosmos
#

I'll also be testing gaussian blur on a kensei as well as the vet ghost

#

kensei and ghost won't be meeting since string theory doesn't play nice with kenny

#

the prototype teleport-when-slowed skill looks like it'd be funny for kensei though

dapper goblet
#

doing an all marine and spacer PPG holdout soon

#

knights, hatchets, napalms and anchors - running in 2x2 battle buddy pairs

  • Veteran Spacer Knight (Second Wind, Valor, Gravity Rifle)
  • Marine Hatchets (Deck Anchos, Rocket Bola, Reckless Dive)
  • Marine Commander Napalm (Long-Burn Catalyst, Pointman Plating, Rockbreaker drill (from industrial, just so it has something to absorb system trauma)
  • Spacer Anchor (magnetic reversal, sealant trap)
granite saddle
vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

God you're really gonna make me have to figure out that site huh ? (Jk it's all my inner completionist's fault)

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

thanks !

#

streak : retroactively maintained

sudden cosmos
#

Giving the ghost Doppelgänger may have been a mistake

sudden cosmos
#

Does Mach Parry trigger after the first instance of damage from the attack that hit it is dealt?

#

It's not come up before

vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
#

Ah. The way the trigger phrase reads made me think the damage had to be applied first since it's "hits and deals damage"

vagrant grotto
#

Or Ronin’s Rebound

#

The “first” is the operative word here in the effect

sudden cosmos
#

Having fun with this escort though

image.png
sudden cosmos
#

General thoughts (sitrep info forthcoming):

Liked the objective handling rules for carrying/dragging/contesting the objective in the extraction

DOPPELGANGER: funny but obviously made it clear that something was up with the NPC that showed up

GENERAL VETERAN GHOST: liked the idea and concept of how it played. countered/handled it pretty well. Felt "too fair fot a ghost." Liked how superimpose firmament felt. Found the ability to interact with with the ghost through superimpose if you're in the bubble but the ghost is interesting. Maxwell's Demon and String Theory Marionette went unused because they died too fast to get it off or got jammed. sad

GENERAL KENSEI: No comments on Gaussian Blur. Thought it was fair. Liked giving utility to mass driver. Really liked Mach Parry. Generally thought it was more fair to fight against than the last one they fought, which was an elite that had different optionals.

PROTOTYPE GENERAL: Novel technology was "funny." Certainly got them to scan instead of relying on non-scan stat gathering (IE from the party swallowtail scraping stats and systems). Unbothered by the difficulty, but this was LL6. Didn't bother them much. Infoscramble was never disabled and just opted to disable the invis though athena/lotus. Slip Drive on the kensei was "a rude surprise the first time it happened, but would be fine to play around after that or if you just scanned it." Loved Locomotion Mode Shift (as did I. Very funny on breachers. Had no reason to turn it off until one got proned). Lightning Rod "felt fine. things should have resistance to damage sometimes" Secondary effect never triggered.

vagrant grotto
#

Glad Kensei with Gaussian Blur felt fair, and that Mach Parry felt useful

sudden cosmos
#

Kensei feels great to use on the GM side too, imo. Probably my favorite PPG NPC

vagrant grotto
#

How did the speed 5 feel?

sudden cosmos
#

Given the map, fine? I was able to make a pretty crazy line with gaussian blur to contest the objective with mass driver ready by the time it got there

#

Now, did it immediately eat shit by getting slammed with like 12 burn? yes.

#

But it made them think for An Turn, and that's what mattered.

#

I guess the only other thing is that they felt the transportation mode shift being able to move at all after being proned was weird? I don't mind though. It's a transformer. They've got weird sublegs.

#

They didn't seem to hate it, but this is a very high-damage and optimized party (info forthcoming)

Other Info:

Sitrep:
Extraction, finished in 6/10 Rounds on OWS Combat 2 Map (ammo boxes removed)

PCs:

  • Executioner White Witch (you know the build)
  • CQB Roland Toku
  • Tech Support/Spotter Swallowtail
  • SMN TCB Atlas [JK1 houseruled to 3 max]

OpFor:

  • 2x Veteran Anomaly Ghost ( Doppleganger (don't do this) Superimpose Firmament (1 use), Maxwell's Demon (unused), String Theory Marionette (unused, wanted to get it on the breacher SO BAD))
  • 2x Elite Prototype Rebake Breacher (Locomotion Mode Shift, Fragmentation Shells (VERY funny with a WW on the table), Painmaker)
  • 1x Commander Rebake Sentinel (Lightning Rod, Marker Shells, Military Discipline)
  • 3x Prototype Kensei (Gaussian Blur, Slip Drive (incredibly funny interaction IMO))
  • 3x Prorotype Rebake Archer (Infoscramble, Impending Threat)
#

Only rules question is that, can you still extract the objective through the extraction zone if you AND the objective have been made intangible through Superimpose Firmament?

#

My ruling was "No, because the extraction zone isn't intangible. Kill the ghost or wait until firmament goes away" but wanted to double-check

#

Odd interaction since objectives tend to not go intangible

ashen crown
#

Question about Firewall Molt: if Firewall Molt recharges before the old afterimage is destroyed, could you use Firewall Molt in response to the effects granted by destroying the first afterimage?

vagrant grotto
#

The zone should be considered intangible too yeah

#

The point is for a Ghost to use it to protect like, a Control zone

sudden cosmos
#

This never happened, but if they got to a state where it was just a PC and the uncontested conifer in the zone, even thought they're intangible, they should have been able to extract?

#

I guess "sitrep objectives" implies zones since in many sitreps, the zones ARE the sitrep objectives

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
ashen crown
sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
#

Ghost’s features are so fucking wordy yeah

ashen crown
#

Also, does the Afterimage occupy the users space at all times (like a burst effect), or just when the reaction is used?

vagrant grotto
#

Have you played Warframe? If so, know Sarin? It’s her Molt ability

dapper goblet
vagrant grotto
#

Like the only 2 other hatchet things are Return to Sender and Hurricane of Steel but what you have is plenty

#

Anchor looks set

dapper goblet
#

yeah there's a few confounding factors in this combat (some modified orbital bombardment stuff and zero g, plus just a pile of templates) that I dont want my players to drown in optionals lol

#

but five player parties always escape my expectations even after running one for like 8 months lol

umbral sluice
muted blaze
#

Hey valk, finished playtest in 2 hours. I had a return to sender come up and I parried BOTH rounds of a Sharanga... Does that work?

Ultrakill parry Return to sender makes sense and was well received (Especially as I added SFX and VFX), but it has strange edge cases with things like cones, bursts or where a seeking plasma thrower may originate from the hatchet which is odd. Additionally it's weird with Sharangas which target explicitely two people or pinakas which have multiple AOEs

vagrant grotto
#

I don’t know how to word it for that but the idea is it’s hitting it back, so it doesn’t make too much sense to have it hit both things back

muted blaze
#

Yeah

vagrant grotto
#

Repositioning the cone/line to the hatchet as source makes sense I think?

#

Like that sounds fine

muted blaze
#

Ok, so wording of the action I think implies ALL the action is redirected, which makes sense for say a mortar or howitzer but makes less sense with a Sharanga or Pinaka

#

I think

vagrant grotto
#

It’s mostly just changing the target from itself to the triggering character

muted blaze
#

Wait so

#

if it's caught in an AOE does it redirect the AOE or just itself

vagrant grotto
#

I’ll consider the wording some more

muted blaze
#

Like a ronin

vagrant grotto
#

It redirects the AOE (important for grenades)

granite saddle
# vagrant grotto Just when used

If that matters for anything, I initially read it Not Like That, especially with it('s name) being very close to the Mirror Images that do follow the Mesmerist around.

vagrant grotto
#

It deploys it like a deployable

granite saddle
#

I did miss the deployable tag

vagrant grotto
#

I’ll consider how I can reword it

vagrant grotto
#

Which reads more cleanly?

Trigger: A hostile action is taken against a character bonded with the Ghost.
Effect: The Ghost interrupts with PARADOX STATE.

OR

Trigger: A hostile action is taken against a character bonded with the Ghost.
Effect: The Ghost may first use PARADOX STATE.
#

Also, which reads better, this:

Gaussian Blur
Trait, Recharge 5+, Free Action
Immediately before it sheathes its weapon, the Kensei may move its SPEED, ignoring obstructing characters, engagement, and reactions. It deals 3/4/5 Kinetic AP damage to characters it passes through.

OR this

GAUSSIAN BLUR - Trait, Recharge 5+
When activating MASS DRIVER SHEATHE, the Kensei may first move its SPEED in a straight line, ignoring obstructing characters, engagement, and reactions. It deals 3/4/5 Kinetic AP to characters it passes through.
umbral sluice
umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

yeah i like this one

muted blaze
#

For Ghost reaction I prefer 2nd... For Mass driver I think I prefer the 2nd option too

vagrant grotto
#

Big question here is "do people parse 'first' in the same way as 'interrupt'"

#

It has precedence in CRB with Sentinel's Bodyguard and Ronin's Instinct Mode, but later stuff doesn't tend to use "first" in the "interrupt" way. Kai's Rebake largely uses Interrupt (except also for Instinct Mode!) but Kai also isn't constraining his space like I am

#

currently I'm removing "first" where it's feasible but leaving it where "interrupt" or the like would eat too much space

muted blaze
#

I think "Interrupts with" is weird parsing in my mind which is odd because it's phrased just like other interrupts

#

Natural language parsing skill issue on my behalf IG

vagrant grotto
#

@muted blaze question on how Hatchet felt: How does it feel for Cleaving Retrieval to be centered on the Hatchet instead of the thrown weapon?

muted blaze
#

What part centered on the hatchet rather than the weapon?

vagrant grotto
#

The save vs push+damage effect, specifically

muted blaze
#

Wait

#

It wasn't centered on the Hatchet already?

vagrant grotto
#

it's been centered on the Hatchet

#

I'm just asking "how did that feel"

muted blaze
#

Oh I see

vagrant grotto
#

and how you think it would feel if it were centered on the weapon instead

#

trying to measure vibes

muted blaze
#

I think if it was centered on the weapon that would make it like sticking on the edge of range more... Actually... I'm uncertain

#

So, inconclusive data yesterday. Yesterday wan not conclusive for NPC tests which I was aware of beforehand because the sitrep was WILDLY different to regular sitreps

vagrant grotto
#

I'll take any feedback anyway

#

esp with reports on New And Shiny Sitreps

muted blaze
#

This was the battlemap crylaughing

image.png
#

It was basically "What if I could turn one scene into a combat point crawl". It worked quite well but required more pressure and incentives to not go the shortest path

vagrant grotto
#

ohohohooooo let's fucking go

#

this is the good kush

muted blaze
#

So when an NPC feasibly exists for about a round at most I can't really test it too much

umbral sluice
#

it was insane, but really fun honestly

muted blaze
#

Deffo a higher brainspan sitrep, to be used as a setpiece rather than frequent

umbral sluice
#

also we stole the final boss with OSIRIS and used Auntie to vaporise his son crylaughing

muted blaze
#

I did annihilate a scout with a prototype Aunti minigun

#

Prototype was neat, I simply forgot the attack had difficulty 💀

#

Sitrep was done in about 2 hours

vagrant grotto
#

Prototype was neat
I declare victory

muted blaze
#

Apart from this or anywhere nearby

image.png
#

I think I might prefer that honestly? Because the Hatchet doesn't want enemies to be engaged and it plays more into the "A thrown weappon in a dangerous area more" meaning you suffer if you're near the weapon rather than range 2 of the weapon if the hatchet dive bombs between you and the weapon

vagrant grotto
#

right, the effect is that if it's centered on the hatchet, the "threat radius" of the thrown weapon is Burst 2

muted blaze
#

I think yeah, but required more overhead?

image.png
#

Because you need to interpose yourself

#

I think if it's a skirmisher, centering it on the weapon plays well because it as you mentioned means that the weapons themselves have an aura of threat and means that it's easier for a hatchet to pplay at it's optimal range of about 2-5 tiles away

#

Not gettingn stuck in and engaged to allow it to run off more

vagrant grotto
#

Flip Kick is for breaking the Engagement tbc

muted blaze
#

So as of current, In order, Hatchet runs up. Becomes engaged losing remaining movment, activates cleaving retrieval. Kicks the Zheng in the face who fails/succeeds the save then flies away, meaning they're 3-5 tiles away from the target with no remaining movement

image.png image.png image.png
#

Whereas if they move like this to the weapon then the poor zheng away they still have their remaining movement and are potentially +1 tile away from the zheng

image.png
#

I think either work, I'm kind of a fan of originating from the weapon

vagrant grotto
#

I think I'm sold on "hatchet-centered" now

#

burst 2 isn't out of line, and Engagement eating its movement is a feature instead of a bug IMO

#

splitting movement is extra overhead for a GM

#

thanks for this talk, it helped clear up one of my "Pondering" items

muted blaze
#

Sick

#

NP 😎

vagrant grotto
#

The last "pondering" I've been carrying around is whether I should rework Brigand's Jury-Rigged or not

current potential contender is "Novel Technology except no effect until Scanned, at which point all attacks get +1 acc/saves against the Brigand's effects get +1 acc"

sudden cosmos
#

It cites the ability that sets it off in the description and makes the straight line restriction explicit

vagrant grotto
#

oh fuck forgot the straight line part

vagrant grotto
#

IDK if I should be trying for Free Action modifiers here or not...

#

like, just concerned that it's not obvious when a "Recharge Passive" triggers/becomes de-charged

sudden cosmos
#

I like how that reads.

#

If I read that ability knowing next to nothing about the kensei, I'd be like "yeah makes sense"

vagrant grotto
# 
Return to Sender
Trait, Reaction, 1/Scene
Trigger: A character targets the Hatchet with an action with the Thrown, Arcing, Seeking, or Grenade tag.
Effect: The Hatchet interrupts the triggering action, changing the target from itself to the triggering character as if the action originated from the Hatchet. If the action affects one or more areas, the Hatchet moves any areas that include itself to instead include the triggering character and exclude itself (if possible). The triggering character still counts as taking the action.

@muted blaze thoughts/feelings on this revision of Return to Sender?

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given the Sharanga/Pinaka questions

muted blaze
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Yeah I think that's good

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Enough to catch the edge cases

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Any more tbh and I think it could go in the FAQ section instead

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Mayb

vagrant grotto
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@sudden cosmos

Superimpose Firmament
System, Recharge 6+, Full Action
The Ghost projects Firmament energy in a Burst 2 area. Characters, objects, terrain, and sitrep zones and objectives are INTANGIBLE while within the area (so INTANGIBLE characters can interact with sitrep objectives within and tangible ones cannot). The area lasts until the end of the Ghost’s next turn.

How's this look for sitrep zones?

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Nah

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I realised that comment I said felt somewhat like backseat formatting

vagrant grotto
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yeah no any further is gonna need a FAQ

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
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IZs and OZs are defined by sitreps though

sudden cosmos
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Or a hecatoncheires zone

vagrant grotto
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hm

sudden cosmos
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Since it's a zone that's a drone but not actually a drone

vagrant grotto
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valid

# 
The Ghost juxtaposes the Firmament in a Burst 2 area. Characters, objects, terrain, zones, and sitrep objectives are INTANGIBLE while within the area (so INTANGIBLE characters can interact with sitrep objectives within and tangible ones cannot). The area lasts until the end of the Ghost’s next turn.
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Actually, gonna reword the parenthetical:

The Ghost imposes the Firmament upon a Burst 2 area. Characters, objects, terrain, zones, and sitrep objectives are INTANGIBLE while within the area (so only INTANGIBLE characters can interact with zones and sitrep objectives within). The area lasts until the end of the Ghost’s next turn.
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@sudden cosmos besides the above, how did you feel about Superimpose Firmament being a Full Action?

sudden cosmos
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Given that it can actively disadvantage the ghost, it could probably be a QA

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Recharge 6 is fine

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Personally: it being a full is why I didn't get a chance to test String Theory Marionette on a breacher

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But that's me being petty

vagrant grotto
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I'm aligning with your feeling on it yeah

sudden cosmos
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The most confusing idea my players said was that they wanted fighting it to be more unfair

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Like, you want an NPC to be more rude?

vagrant grotto
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Honestly I think Ghost needs to be playtested against a given table repeatedly

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it's a knowledge check NPC like Berserker can be, which means once the trick is known it may be easy to stuff

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surprised they wanted it to be more rude though

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usually "I eat your action" is considered pretty rude

sudden cosmos
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Probably because I whiffed every roll for that

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But otherwise they handily dismantled it without knowing anything about it

vagrant grotto
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yeah........... that's been my record with it too

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you can Scan/Lock On to pop the PS, or you can gamba

sudden cosmos
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They gamba'd without knowing it was a gamba on eject power core on its host and that was GG for the ghost

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I do kinda agree that I was looking at the ghost like "what can I even do with you" and drawing a lot of blanks

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A part of that is that I glued the ghost to a rebake sentinel who got kited real bad for sure though.

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I like the base concept but I wonder if maybe it could be tweaked to have more reliable and notable impact to get that specter/berserker-like feel of warping play around it

vagrant grotto
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Maybe I ditch the 1d6 on Paradox State

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the counterplay is already "burn a low-effort quick action"

sudden cosmos
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That's how I approached a thing with my faction template and players don't seem to mind it

vagrant grotto
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would need to modify the Ultra trait as a result though

sudden cosmos
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"it needs a condition so I can attack it normally? Okay cool. I'm gonna lock on, skirmish, and not consume the lock on"

vagrant grotto
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I'm okay with forcing players to trade a Quick for a Quick

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that or like, keep the 1d6 but make Intangible last for the rest of the turn

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the coin toss may be too irritating at that point, though

sudden cosmos
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I think making it be guaranteed as a QA to trade for a QA is fair. Plus it accumulates heat, so the ghost can't do it forever even on a multi-activation template

vagrant grotto
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Thinking of removing the heat on the bonded character, but definitely keeping the heat on the Ghost

sudden cosmos
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And if the ultra needs a tweak, maybe it could have it so a phase shifted host can deal full damage

vagrant grotto
# 
Paradox State
System, 1 Heat (Self), Quick Tech
The next time a hostile action is taken against a character bonded with the Ghost, that character immediately becomes INTANGIBLE, causing the action to be lost if it only affects tangible targets.

COHERENT ENTANGLEMENT (ULTRA) - Trait
PARADOX STATE instead lasts until the start of the Ghost’s next turn and affects the first hostile action taken against a character bonded with the Ghost each turn.
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Ghost Ultra gets a lot of turns though, which may make this a shadow nerf...

umbral sluice
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what's the latest version of the "needs to be tested" list?

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im here prepping the next couple fights so i'd like to see what's there to add

vagrant grotto
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Anchor

  • [ ] Newtonian Amplifier
  • [ ] Magnetic Reversal
    Capacitor
  • [x]
    Ghost
  • [x] Superimpose Firmament
  • [ ] String Theory Marionette
  • [ ] Maxwell’s Demon (vet)
  • [ ] Coherent Entanglement (ultra)
    Hatchet
  • [ ] Rocket Bola
  • [ ] Reckless Dive (updated)
  • [x] Return to Sender (updated)
  • [ ] Hurricane of steel (ultra)
    Kensei
  • [x] Gaussian Blur
  • [ ] Mortal draw (ultra)
    Knight
  • [x]
    Mesmerist
  • [ ] Mountebank’s Jaunt
    Napalm
  • [x]
    Occultist
  • [ ] Doubling season (vet)
    Prism
  • [ ] Scintillating gleam
    Torrent
  • [x]
    Vulture
  • [ ] Rapid refabrication (ultra)
    Zealot
  • [x]
sudden cosmos
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Valk is probably still cooking after this weekend's feedback

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I stand corrected

vagrant grotto
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I'm still lightly cooking but not hugely

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most changes I've made are clarity

umbral sluice
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i think mesmerist and prism should fit quite nicely flavourwise into this next fight

vagrant grotto
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This Ghost one is the biggest change so far

umbral sluice
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hm, if i'm to replace a mirage with a ghost would that be interesting?

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they're both supports technically but very differently

vagrant grotto
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mirage is good for moving folks around, Ghost is better for making 1 guy Very Slippery

umbral sluice
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hm yeah true

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i think next fight will have those two anyway, i'll think about the current one what to do

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i've already put a kensei in that one

vagrant grotto
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Trying a different wording to clarify that yes the action is taken and yes it'll affect other targets as normal:

The next time a hostile action is taken against a character bonded with the Ghost, they immediately become INTANGIBLE during that action. The action is still taken and affects other targets as normal.
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And the modification to the Ultra trait:

PARADOX STATE instead affects the first hostile action taken against a character bonded with the Ghost each turn until the start of the Ghost’s first turn each round.
umbral sluice
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I assume Scintillating Gleam is intended to be able to be centred on the projector correct?

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
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in short: it affects both spaces

umbral sluice
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oh sick nice

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i think these two will make a very interesting centrepiece for the fight

vagrant grotto
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Okay, changed my mind on Coherent Entanglement:

COHERENT ENTANGLEMENT (ULTRA) - Trait
When a character becomes INTANGIBLE due to PARADOX STATE, they remain INTANGIBLE until the end of the turn. While INTANGIBLE in this way, they can target and affect tangible characters and objects, dealing half damage, Heat, or Burn.
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Edited to accommodate the Reaction Users

steel apex
# vagrant grotto It has precedence in CRB with Sentinel's Bodyguard and Ronin's Instinct Mode, bu...

Coming in late to this but I figured I'd add some clarification: the rebake Ronin's Instinct Mode wasn't written with the intent to meant to be an "interrupt" type effect, the use of "first" there is to clarify that the Boost the Ronin makes towards the target must be done first, THEN (whether they do it or not) they can make the attack. This is to forestall questions about order of operations (i.e. can I melee attack and then boost away etc)

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Or let me put it this way: the CRB uses "may first attack with the sword"

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is this meant to be an interrupt? I'd say it's questionable from a "but it doesn't SAY interrupt" standpoint but I'd give the nod to it in terms of like "what is the GM likely to read it as," I don't know if tom ever weighed in on that one but broadly consensus does seem to be "yeah it does"

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that said, "is this interrupt language" wasn't really my priority with that one, if that makes sense

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Strictly speaking, what I should have done is reformatted Instinct Mode along the lines of the Archer's Suppress or Covering Fire where it's system/trait, and then a subheaded Reaction statblock

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This is in the ballpark of the whole bastion fearless defender thing "is it meant to be useable on its own or does it NEED a partner?" I just took the CRB wording

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I agree that in broad formatting terms, reactions should more clearly specify using specific phrasing "is this an interrupt y/n"

vagrant grotto
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Ah damn, noted then, my mistake

steel apex
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nah it's a good catch in terms of, like, "presumptive wording" so to speak

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I suppose if the CRB version is meant to interrupt then I guess the rebake version does to via related property, it just wasn't something that was particularly on my mind

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Maybe I'll have Mina do a pass on it when I have her look at the Operator's timing

steel apex
vagrant grotto
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yeah exactly

steel apex
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It's an extra sentence and it's not as neat or concise

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and I can understand not wanting to use it every time

vagrant grotto
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my problem right now though is

image.png
steel apex
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right exactly I figured

vagrant grotto
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so it's a box I've put myself into lol

steel apex
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so here's a fun one

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"immediately"

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it's not really formalized, but it shows up a lot throughout lancer and tends to get taken as meaning "interrupt-ish"

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or having a sense of priority

vagrant grotto
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If I worded it as "Immediately use Paradox State" yeah that would fit the line

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currently had it as "The Ghost interrupts with Paradox State" as well

steel apex
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I think all of the choices you've proposed work fine in terms of having some sort of precedent you can point at and being sensibly worded

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now I'm the one looking at Instinct Mode and going "okay but this COULD be clearer"

vagrant grotto
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"Immediately use Paradox State" does buy me room for an "if able" in case I do something I've been mulling (which is: restricting Paradox State to 1/round)

steel apex
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You COULD buy yourself some extra room if you deleted the parenthetical from Superimpose Firmament, BUT I can also see why you might not want to

vagrant grotto
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yeah agreed, it could be something that could be moved to the FAQ. But I think I'm going to let it be for now (though I did do something similar with the Prism in the past)

vagrant grotto
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aight I've ripped out "First" as "interrupt" in all cases except for Zealot's Martyrdom and Prototype's Lightning Rod, mostly because those should be fine/self-explanatory

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everything else has been reworded appropriately

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I also rearranged the order of operations in Mesmerist's Metafold Riposte so the Overwatch happens after the triggering attack resolves

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the interrupting Overwatch was more potent back when Codespike jammed on Overwatch, but now I don't think it matters much. It could maybe score a stray Structure damage or Overheat prior to the attack, but I'm not enthusiastic about that as an effect

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decided to change Wavefunction Collapse to Recharge 5+ and leave Paradox State without a round limit

granite saddle
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Good thing the holidays are coming up then.

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
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no coinflip, no heat on the bond

granite saddle
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I meant the ultra trait, that one is actually very clear

vagrant grotto
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so Coherent entanglement means that it lasts the rest of the turn

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it's intangible until end of turn

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the half damage/heat/burn is so you don't treat it like a free disengage

granite saddle
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Ohhhh ok yeah

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That was the part confusing me

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Ok yeah this works. I'd say slip a "current turn" in there but this is the ghost we're talking about, you most certainly don't have the space for it

vagrant grotto
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I have space in the Veteran/Ultra section but IDK if it's necessary

granite saddle
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Mostly for consistency with the chain axe (only comparable timing I can think of right now)

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But yeah it works as is

vagrant grotto
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added

granite saddle
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I'll see if I can finally put that foundry licence to use next-ish week then

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You know me, I love an OpFor that Works Everytime™

light pawn
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I just wanted to pop in to say that the Anomaly template is wicked and I can't wait to terrorize my players with it

vagrant grotto
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I hope it serves you well!!

light pawn
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Oh it will

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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In Golden Flame Act 1, Sleeping Above a Stolen Crown, Ironbound Shadows are also all on sale

sudden cosmos
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When I finish the playtests for SWD I'm gonna pull a Bunlith and go "Because of the sale, I've made my module FREE!"

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(it's already free, but, you know)

muted blaze
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PWYW, but because it's on sale you can pay less than what you wanted

dapper goblet
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PSLTYWO
(Pay slightly less than you would have otherwise)

vagrant grotto
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debating if I should start testing a new alternative rule for two-weapon mounts

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in short: Damage from a mount against a character is combined into a single instance

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I can make this work on Foundry

dapper goblet
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Basically compressing aux/aux and main/aux to one damage instance?

vagrant grotto
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indeed

dapper goblet
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Hmm

vagrant grotto
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it's a little tricky with AOE but I think it can work

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single target, it's pretty straightforward

sudden cosmos
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It'd make sequencing things with hunter on a main/aux or w/e easier

dapper goblet
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I personally think that collapses some interesting texture but id be interested to see how it works out

vagrant grotto
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I firmly believe that NPC armor was balanced the same as PC armor, which assumes a single incoming hit each turn in most circumstances

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Imma test it

dapper goblet
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I will throw in that there are no player-side AP Auxiliary weapons in lancer and thats (in my and the collective homebrew experience) for a good reason

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I think your biggest power blowout is going to be on non-1d6 trait main/aux mechs. Certain main/aux skirmishes can compete with or even exceed heavies in damage when all is said and done, and double value armor is one of the big things keeping a clamp on that

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But i think you can also say that comes out in the wash at some level. Like I said, id be interested to see

vagrant grotto
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For Main/Aux usually that's gonna be something to the tune of 1d6+1d3 yeah. Compare this to something like the Thermal Lance or Legionnaire Battle Rifle that does 1d6+3

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5.5 avg damage vs. 6.5 in that case

dapper goblet
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Talents make this math more complicated though

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Heavy gunner is more control and exe is... well you cant RELY on it hitting the same person

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But hunter is just free additional attacks

vagrant grotto
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I'm leaving the free hunter attacks alone

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same with Integrated weapon

dapper goblet
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Mmm alright I see

vagrant grotto
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those will remain separate pings of damage

dapper goblet
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Yeah I assumed integrated was separate (not the same mount)

vagrant grotto
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it's all gotta be on the same mount

dapper goblet
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Hunter can technically be the same mount so it was a bit ambiguous

vagrant grotto
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it'll be specifically modifying Skirmish and Barrage

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free action attacks that aren't Skirm or Barrage won't be affected

dapper goblet
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Then I do think your bigger issue is "does an aux/aux just become better than a main" because a Platonic pistol (1d3, 1 reliable, doubled) does the same damage as a Platonic assault rifle (1d6, 2 reliable), and lets just assume the talent/range/threat things come out in the wash here.

Im not sure it does necessarily, im just mulling it through

vagrant grotto
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yeah double pistol is Range 5 and only benefits from Lock On once on the same target

dapper goblet
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Yeah but you get 3 threat as opposed to 1

vagrant grotto
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that's the wash of it

dapper goblet
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Hence the "for my sanity im just assuming the threat/range washes"

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The lock on thing i dont find enormously compelling honestly but its objectively true

vagrant grotto
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if anyone brings up "GMS Shotgun pales" then yeah I'll be the first to agree that it should get a lil buff lol

dapper goblet
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Theres a reason I didnt say shotgun or light nexus here lol

vagrant grotto
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Also note: Many talents that bump accuracy only do so on the first matching attack

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sure you could like, do Duelist Tac Weapon + Gunslinger Pistol I suppose

dapper goblet
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Yeah my biggest problem here ultimately shakes out to "AP auxes are scary and this pushes the whole game a step closer to that, which will have weird knock ons"

vagrant grotto
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cutting the impact of armor in half is not removing it entirely lol

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this does raise a good question though about how AP works here

dapper goblet
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I mean, no, but its collapsing the difference between auxes and mains. There are ap mains that are clearly fine

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But also yeah, what does this do if you have an ap and non ap on the same mount

vagrant grotto
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Charged Blade + Tac Knife is used, does Armor still apply? that sort of thing

I think it should work out to "Armor only applies once to all of this mount's attacks"

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
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Yeah no I’d word it “a target’s armor only applies once to all of a single mount’s attacks against it”, if anything

ashen crown
#

Just ran (most of) an encounter with 2 Ghosts (1 Commander deployed at the start, 1 Reinforcement deployed later, both with Superimpose Firmament but only 1 used it, both were SpecOps with Serrrated Machetes), here are some thoughts.

First, there were 4 LL5 PCs in the combat, this was the third combat of the mission, it was an Escort, and there was a Zheng, Hydra, Swallowtail, and Pegasus. Only the Swallowtail had its core power active. We're currently on round 5, with the Commander Ghost having died last round and the reinforcement Ghost still alive.

The players were annoyed by the Ghost, but our combat analyst player said that it was funny, funky, and mostly fair. It crumpled like ash the instant it un-bonded.

The main issue was the un-bonding however. For most of the fight the commander just stuck to one Operator/Mirage adjacent NPC (IGF Act 2 Voider, it was a playtest thing), and it was very hard to pin down. Any tech actions used to break the bond ended up missing due to Ghostly Vigor or the fact that- because the tech action effects both the Ghost and the Host- it just ended up moving them the same way. The intangibility mainly helped it survive by just not being a target period, jumping through walls, grapples, and engagements to dip out of LoS. This was difficult, but workable, and when a Tempest Drone knocked the Ghost out, it used Superimpose Firmament to be able to interact with the objective (something it would not be able to do otherwise) and used its 6 speed to kidnap it way away from the OZ.

The second ghost imposed a problem, because it chose to bond with a Goliath. We found a weird gimmick where Fold Space would cause both the Ghost and Host to disappear at the same time but respawn at different times, breaking the bond, but for the Ghost it took no effort to re-establish the bond. It has since not been targeted or harmed whatsoever, barely taking any heat. (cont soon, character limit)

vagrant grotto
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Hm… puppet systems and BCL would work well to break bonds too, on heavy framers

ashen crown
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The issue really came in when both ghosts were on the field at the same time. They were both hosting fairly hard to harm targets, one due to tankiness and the other due to slipperiness, and forming new bonds took very little effort and was extremely fast. As such the players felt a little disincentivized and discouraged from actually addressing the Ghosts. This could easily be a tactical failure however, and my players when we pick the combat back up do plan to focus on actually de-bonding the ghosts for good, especially since there's only one of them now. But too many high priority targets being Ghosted = difficulty de-Ghosting them.

From my interpretation of their feedback, I can see where they're coming from. The ghosts have 2 solid counters- Grapples and Techs, but also have built in ways of directly shutting them down in Ghostly Vigor and Phase Shift. I do think the error falls more on their tactics in addressing the ghosts (hint: little to none), but I can see where they had difficulty in actually executing a plan to take out the ghosts.

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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They’re not intended to be, so

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Just thinking about it that’s all

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The alternative is just, eat the action penalty and shoot the host to death

ashen crown
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I do think they were valid in stating that more than one ghost being on the field can become overwhelming fast, and that as is Ghost bonds are hard to break. As feedback however, I'm personally uncertain if they just needed to fight a little smarter or not

vagrant grotto
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Like, ignoring all the other ways in taking care of the ghost

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Ghost is deffo a learning curve NPC

ashen crown
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Another thing I will say is that Phase Shift gives crazy slipperiness and mobility- no overwatch, no engagement, no walls, nothing can stop a Phase Shifted NPC

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And speed 6 matters a lot if a ghost has Extrude Firmament- it allows them to do a lot of legwork in an extraction or escort in that case

vagrant grotto
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The fold space trick is a good one though

ashen crown
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Oh yeah I was real impressed by that

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The last point I can add is that, in addition to what I mentioned, speed 6 maaay be too fast

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Phase Shift lets it glide through any and all obstacles, and while its actions may be valuable it can always afford to boost if it means being able to use Quantum Bond, so I think it can afford to lose 1 speed.

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Partially to make it less capable at stealing objectives with Superimpose Firmament- the Ghost to me feels super potent at everything except objectives and I think that's a good thing

vagrant grotto
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Your feedback is noted

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Superimpose Firmament is an optional for a reason

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Is this using the Full Action version?

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Trying to nail down which version this is (or if it’s from my v1.16 prerelease)

ashen crown
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🤦 It was but I forgot it was a Full action the one time I used it.

All I did with it's other action then was use the Serrated Machete to Shred a Tempest Drone- the damage was small but it did allow its host to later destroy the tempest drone, if that's something.

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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The thing is when I used Superimpose Firmament to objective kidnap, it was not on the activation turn

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Rather, it was on the turn after

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Since it lasts until the end of the ghosts next turn

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And I managed to sneak a bonus activation in with Coordinated Carnage- functionally that's the same as simply saving an elite activation for the activation tail or something

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Glad you’re using Bolster though, I feel like folks are sleeping on that and just throwing Lock Ons a lot

ashen crown
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Dude that Bolster saved my life with the -1 to tech attacks and +2 accuracy to a save or check

vagrant grotto
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Since all you gotta do is walk in and whack when it’s up

ashen crown
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It really scared the players when combined with Paradox State since they wanted to use Orator 3 on my Goliath, but because of Paradox State + Bolster they had to dump a tech attack into the Goliath to burn Paradox State, and they were scared of that because the tech attack would be at difficulty

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The whole situation really stumped them

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In general, I think my players were frustrated by the Ghost, and I was a little scared by just how effective it was, but I think once they jump back into combat they'll know exactly how to deal with it and we'll get some more data on how it interacts with Heavy frame

vagrant grotto
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Looking forward to hearing the results

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I have a feeling the players will find a way to crack the nut

opaque crescent
#

I thought NPCs didn't have access to Bolster?

vagrant grotto
opaque crescent
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ah nvm i'm stupid

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ghost optional

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oops

vagrant grotto
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No, base feature

opaque crescent
vagrant grotto
#

Every Ghost can Bolster

upbeat obsidian
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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… huh

vagrant grotto
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Hm

#

Running up against the immunity rules

ashen crown
#

Question about Ghost when it comes to tech actions:

For tech actions with an AoE, such as Beckoner or Logic Bomb, would that affect the ghost even if the host has some sort of immunity to the effect in question? (Not tech immunity but rather Heavy Frame or the like)

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More fundamentally, would it even affect the ghost at all?

vagrant grotto
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I was thinking “yes” but now I’m unsure of wording

ashen crown
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Also, this has probably been asked before, but does the movement mimicking in quantum bond count as Voluntary Movement on the Ghost’s part or no? Asking for the sake of Slow being a way to end Quantum Bond

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My guess is “no” but I just wanna be sure

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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It doesn’t for mule harness yeah, so yeah it wouldn’t work. Just being sure

muted blaze
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Hmmm, some weird interaction with the ghost (sorry Valk)

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So, does the ghost suffer the exact effects of the tech action that effects their bonded target or do you hit them with the same tech action but choose if the effects can differ for the exact effects to differ

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Sorry I'm being REAL pedantic here

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I'll run through the possible scenarios, a ghost is bonded with an NPC who's larger than itself and has a different speed. So let's say an assault and it gets hit with a puppet systems. The assault takes two heat, then:

  1. The ghost moves the same direction as the assault for the ASSAULTS speed
  2. The ghost moves the same direction as the assault for the GHOSTS speed
  3. The ghost may move a different direction than the assault for the GHOSTS speed
  4. The ghost may suffer a separate invade option as the assault, as it's suffering an invade tech action
ashen crown
muted blaze
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In my mind it was half

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Ok sentinel

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Actually it doesn't care about size, assault still works

ashen crown
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I never considered that

muted blaze
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Long story short, I doubt the answer is 2

upbeat obsidian
vagrant grotto
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I frankly imagined this to be like “you copy the tech effect to the ghost as if it were also hit with the same effect”

muted blaze
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That makes sense

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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If that’s how it actually works, then technically speaking the rules can bite my ass

ashen crown
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Fair and valid

muted blaze
# vagrant grotto I think it’s 3

So I assumed it would be like that... Then I was thinking "what tech actions can give a choice that can be different to both the ghost and target

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So I thought hacker 1 was the only thing... Which isn't right because the hacker 1 itself is not the tech action

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But then I realised there's a second tech action that can cause a split...

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Xnopyt potato

vagrant grotto
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The intent is that when the bond receives an effect, the paired partner receives the same effect

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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So xnopyt potato would duplicate the potato chain if I'm correct?

vagrant grotto
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Yeah I think that tracks, good luck

muted blaze
umbral sluice
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"good luck" is terrifying

vagrant grotto
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Failing that, I’d accept “the host picks the effect and the ghost gets a copy but doesn’t make it viral”

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I think I’d go with that interpretation tbh

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As if they were the same character

opaque crescent
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while we're here talking about ghost suffering duplicate tech effects, is Dimensional Emblems allowed to completely encase a size 1 character with a bonded Ghost? Or does the second trigger remove the first set of three?

vagrant grotto
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What happens when you use DimEm vs an intangible target

muted blaze
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Oops, valk. Sorry we found the edge cases :3

opaque crescent
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xnopyt is evil tho

vagrant grotto
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Like if you’re calendula doing shit

opaque crescent
vagrant grotto
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Lemme know what #rules-questions says and I’ll get back to you

muted blaze
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I assume the best way for it to be written without being the whole page long of edge cases is to trust the GM

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And cross your fingers

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Real

umbral sluice
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so... I've realised that I dont have lancer next weekend, would anyone be available for a PPG Playtest I could run then like Al and recaste have? I know it's the holidays so I dont expect many but I thought I'd ask

vagrant grotto
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Which day specifically

umbral sluice
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oh uh

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saturday or sunday

vagrant grotto
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I can potentially do Sunday

umbral sluice
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let me go get hammertime

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saturday or sunday after <t:1766512800:t>

muted blaze
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What's the exact date

muted blaze
umbral sluice
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27th or 28th december

muted blaze
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Unavailable for both

opaque crescent
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I will be around regardless :)

umbral sluice
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fuck the time stamp is set for today instead of next weekend but yeah that's the idea

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I should go type it up properly seeing as we already have two potentially

muted blaze
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You think I do any writeups for mine until I do it crylaughing

umbral sluice
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@vagrant grotto how do we feel about perhaps doing a playtest at ll3? i kind of want to see how the house rules feel at a lower level

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
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...oh god

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i could

vagrant grotto
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I wouldn’t begrudge you if you didn’t

umbral sluice
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its tempting

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Title: Cat's PPG Playtest :3
Game System: LANCER RPG
Platform: FoundryVTT
Chat: Voice through Pilot NET Discord, text through Foundry
Availability: 4 seats
Time: Saturday the 27th or Sunday the 28th at <t:1766858400:t> depending on availability, ~4-5 hours in length.
Tone: Somewhat silly playtest skirmish
Hook: Impact Dynamics HATES the spirit of Christmas, being jolly and giving gifts, get them out of the way and bring the presents home
Requirements: @ me in this channel if you’re interested. If accepted, create an LL9 character using Massif-published content.
Details: This is a playtest for some of the NPCs and Optionals from Prototype Pattern Groups, as well as Valk's Houserules, which can be found here (https://github.com/msprijatelj/valk-lancer-houserules/blob/main/DOCUMENTATION.md), but key highlights:

  • Overcharge lets you reroll an attack/check/save instead of take an extra action, and refreshes on a rest.
  • Aid lets you split Stabilize’s action cost between players!
  • Overkill is now opt-in: Choose to activate it or don’t!
  • Brace is 1/scene but now has no downside.
  • NPCs with Recharge abilities also take Self Heat from those abilities.
  • Overheating can inflict Overheated, which prevents use of self-heat abilities.
  • Structure Damage is replaced with picking between being Dazed or suffering System Trauma.
  • All mechs only have 1 Stress, become Exposed & Overheated upon reaching max heat cap, and take excess heat as irreducible Energy damage.
  • Lifting/Dragging rules are revamped to support Escort Objectives in a sensible way!

Other: Hi I'm the one and only Cat, also known as Smallest or Catherine, you've probably seen me around on pilotnet. I've been playing lancer for 2-ish years at this point. I'm running this playtest to see how the Valk Houserules and newer NPCs feel specifically from the GM seat and at Tier 3.

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fuck it we ball, ll9 it is

opaque crescent
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How Steele stole Christmas

umbral sluice
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anyway yeah if anyone knows someone that would be available to join feel free to invite them

vagrant grotto
opaque crescent
ashen crown
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I’m tempted but I have no idea if I’d have time v_v

umbral sluice
opaque crescent
vagrant grotto
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I’ve played T3 once or twice on Interpoint, long ago

It’ll be interesting to see T3 in a different context

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
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Someone remind me to add “Drop Prone (Free)” to my PPG actions later

ashen crown
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Makes an All Brigand NPC comp where the only optionals used are Slaver Systems and JAIL//BREAK- sends a lot of mixed messages

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
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Thank you

sudden cosmos
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man ll9 builds are so hard to make

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what do I even do after ll6

vagrant grotto
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Take HA for the core bonuses? Usually Sherman?

umbral sluice
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its really just put levels in IPSN for Refframe/Sloped or HA for SBD/Heatfall

vagrant grotto
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Or going after that one niche (or super general) system that makes your build better (usually something in Sherman, which hey does double duty for HA CBs)

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My one(?) T3 outing was with an Iconoclast Manticore with Lesson of Shaping so yeah NHPs are also an investment

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That was back when Dustgrave was still getting playtested

muted blaze
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Barb 3/Raleigh 2/sunzi 2/Spare 2

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Autoloader drone, bonus damage on loading system, warp rifle

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Warp rifle spam and just stack damage on it, teleport someone 10 tiles away every turn for shits and gigs

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That's what I'd do at LL7+

gaunt heron
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Rats! I am traveling again that weekend

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Womp womp

sudden cosmos
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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1 ipsn and 1 HA for those CBs I suppose

ashen crown
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Technically an LL7 build but you could go Zheng 1 for ricochet blade stuff and then like. Gilg 3 for Spear Charges cause those slap

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No good heavy weapon but like you could take a Tempest Charged Blade with the Superthermal

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Another niche is “Max all 3 Melee Talents” builds, since those are expensive but if done right have a lot of interplay due to the third ranks of those talents applying to any weapon

vagrant grotto
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But anyway

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This is #mech-hangar stuff

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I’m sure they’ve made more T3 mechs than I have

ashen crown
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Ah yeah fair I just got reminded about thag Gilg build in a flash and thought “shoot that would’ve been fun”

muted blaze
sudden cosmos
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Alright I got a build (assuming it goes on Saturday since I can't do Sunday)

ashen crown
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Anyway now this is Mech Hangar stuff

placid glacier
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Oh right- I forgot to put a message in here, but I tested out an Ultra Vulture and some Prototype Sentinels a couple days ago

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LL2 with two players from my regular group and two new players in a Recon that just turned into a slugfest

The Prototype was well received, I did tell the party about scanning (and I assume scan equivalent systems) would turn off the perma soft cover, but they rolled hot enough/had enough counterbalance accuracy to negate soft cover. It definitely helped with their survivability though, and I really like the cross classing features part of it (I put on mag bomb from vulture)

For the Ultra Vulture feature, tbh it felt kinda underwhelming? Like having two different buffs from magpie is good but I felt like I had to go out of my way to use it because I couldn't rely on reliably cannibilizing a wreck, so I had to work in more ablative systems for the vulture, and even then I only used the full action magpie once. On the players side they also said it didn't feel too impactful. Honestly I felt like I would taken the vet feature instead had it been an option

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Vulture was very funny with hound missile rainmaker tho

vagrant grotto
opaque crescent
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@umbral sluice still need one for Saturday? Can ask around my weekly players

umbral sluice
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uh let me think

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we have on saturday, recaste and isa?

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and sunday, recaste and valk?

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or am i forgetting someone

opaque crescent
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ah mb missed that Valk was sunday specific

umbral sluice
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unfortunately

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i'll ask some of my weekly players if they'd want to join and then i'll tell you if i need more

umbral sluice
opaque crescent
vagrant grotto
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I think I can do Saturday now

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Waitlist me please

umbral sluice
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okayyy so it looks like saturday is recaste, one of her players, isa and valk?

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i'll make a thread (when i figure out how 😭)

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
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@dapper goblet did you run that Anchor game yet by chance?

dapper goblet
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Uhh about half of it then holiday break

vagrant grotto
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Just checking in case I missed an update 😅

dapper goblet
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The anchors, being anchors, have not done much yet as backline protectors in the first couple rounds

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I can say that their guns are EXTREMELY FUNNY in zero g

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"Go to space, asshole"

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I feel like the napalm are overperforming in damage again but tbh you can say that about all unanswered artillery so... well see how the combat shakes out

vagrant grotto
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You’re using the 4/6/8 burn damage guns yeah? I’ve tweaked them a few times just asking

dapper goblet
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Id have to check my forge but I think so

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Also we just hit LL5 which is a notorious difficulty pain point anyway so, definitely confounding factors

vagrant grotto
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Noted noted

placid glacier
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There's a Saturday playtest going on?

muted blaze
placid glacier
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Oh ll9

ashen crown
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Would Orator 2’s cast doubt end Quantum Bond?

ashen crown
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Also, does Cast Doubt prevent a Ghost from Bolstering a character, or does the fact that Bolster is a basic action (and therefore neither a trait or system) circumvent that (but disable the tech difficulty because that’s directly the result of a trait)?

ashen crown
ashen crown
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So um. Answered my own questions I suppose

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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the Ghastly Vigor difficulty part wouldn't work though

vagrant grotto
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Good playtest today imo

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I have thoughts about Edefense scaling now lol

umbral sluice
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ah okay it's a .txt file now

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should still be readable

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
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All good, worked out in the end!

ashen crown
opaque crescent
vagrant grotto
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And maybe some cases should have higher edefs too

ashen crown
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Iirc the Kai Rebake does something similar

vagrant grotto
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a lot of my NPCs stats kinda defaulted to "the evens" and feel one-note as a result, I think

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like, start with 6, 8, or 10 and then scale by 1 or 2

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I think a couple of my NPCs could stand to scale by 3, and I could use some odd values of Evasion and E-Defense too for some texture

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example: Reducing Vulture evasion from 8/10/12 to 7/9/11

muted blaze
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Any reason why you think that?

vagrant grotto
steel apex
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I'm gonna bring up something here which is kinda sorta off topic, maybe quasi on, but it was prompted by discussion earlier in the gm corner channel about how to look at the Spacer template, that you don't have to cleave to the narrative flavor of it so much as you can simply consider the mechanics of it when incorporating it into an opfor, and it struck me that it's kind of funny that all three of what I would consider the game's main "add a role" templates are all space flavored

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Spacer (controller), Pirate (striker), and Marine (defender)