#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 18 of 1

ashen crown
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And it’s just a scene-wide budget

vagrant grotto
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I’m just looking at all these traits and thinking “these are wonderful rocks to deter attacking but you have to rely on your equipment to supply the hard place”

inland pilot
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Rooted is cool but to be blunt, it existed because of Ferrofluid Lance and Pinning Spire and originally Retort Loop (guess what changed)

vagrant grotto
inland pilot
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its a License hook and thats it, and while its not bad for that reason ... well, I already said it. "thats it"

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the White Witch doesn't even want to be Immobilized, necessarily, it just occasionally becomes Immobilized (mostly when its wrestling someone which y'know fair)

ashen crown
inland pilot
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without mention that both Ferrofluid and Pinning Spire just have much more reasonable timings for Immobilized than Rooted (seeing they're QA's, specifically, and end as protocols)

vagrant grotto
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Rooted should’ve been “When white witch is immobilized gain 1 armor” smh videogames

inland pilot
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and then Retort Loop ... well

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again, that got changed

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because frankly it sucked and ruined the pacing of bringing the weapon to begin with

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so yeah. Rooted is cute, but I could not call it necessary nor signature

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and if I was to retain Rooted ... maybe give it a better way to Immobilize that wasn't a protocol on a mech that wants to run things down or rush to an allies aid?

ashen crown
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The conceit of the first 2 ranks of equipment already pair really well with Ferro Armor anyway so like there doesn’t really need to be any more license hooks period

inland pilot
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ugh. god. I need to stop thinking about White Witch. this is exactly the kind of thing that drives me mental lmao

vagrant grotto
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Yeah let’s drop it for now

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If you’ve got thoughts feel free to write them down in a notebook to exorcise them

inland pilot
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I look at it and go immediately into "i need to fix it" mode

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but its a much deeper issue than just "fixing" it

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lot of overlapping considerations to be made and such

ashen crown
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well the next topic I was gonna go for was “does the Anchor make a good WW stand in?” but wrong time lol

inland pilot
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including just "what direction should the frame go"

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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Lodestone is practically just Camus Razor in my eyes

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I had one last idea but I’ll just spoiler it if it were put down, if that’s okay

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Kay so here it is ||I was thinking about Valk’s change of “make it cap at 3 armor” and while that would give your room to buff everything else it does lose some of the identity of 6 armor. But it does make me realize- the 3 step to max scaling Black Ice does is a lot better for making things well paced and would make players feel better about spending armor. So- FerroArmor scales by +2 at a time but still maxes at +6. If it overflows past that, it resets. Then Fluid Burst works the same, but drops damage by 2 and costs 2 armor. So White Witch rides the armor redline. It’d need one last trait to actually redirect fire, but I think Guardian and 4 pieces of Aggro/Damage Draw equipment are already a lot. Still, if one more was needed, could just take a leaf out of Kutuzov’s brace stuff and make it so that Brace negates AP for WW and Adjacent Allies… that’s not aggro draw actually bad idea||

muted blaze
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I just thought of a dumb atlas build...

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Jockey does not discern friend nor foe

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Jockey does not care if you're immobilised

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Atlas can self immobilise on an ally and ride them

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And unlike mule harness, you don't fall off when on their back

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So the Saladin atlas pocket shield is a possible combo

muted blaze
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-- SSC !V! Atlas @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Atlas 2, HA Saladin 3, IPS-N Tortuga 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Superior by Design, Improved Armament
[ TALENTS ]
  Bonded 3, House Guard 3, Spaceborn 2, Vanguard 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:8 SENSE:5 SAVE:15
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Charged Blade
  FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
  MAIN MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Hardlight Defense System, NOAH-Class NHP, Flash Anchor, Personalizations, Expanded Compartment, Armament Redundancy
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Step 1: find an ally that is 100% melee
Step 2: hop on their back
Step 3: pop all shield systems possible
Step 4: pop hardlight shield so no one can target you and if they want to leave they must take burn and decksweeepr overwatch

muted blaze
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I think I could make it worse...

muted blaze
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I made it worse, I replaced combined arms with iconoclast

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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I'm curious how good it would ne

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Having a moving halo bubble shield that sets people on fire is probably pretty good

ashen crown
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When it comes to running Doppelgänger and the fact that the actual vs projected size of an NPC works, how do you. Run that?

muted blaze
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Anomaly innit

ashen crown
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Ye

vagrant grotto
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okay so I had many playtest thoughts from today, but before all that I wanna shout out @opaque crescent for making a dope foundry mod that implement's PPG's structure and overheating rules

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made my life so much easier when it came to overheating stuff, like phew

muted blaze
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Wait it works

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🔥 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

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Lancer gaming

vagrant grotto
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I'll leave it to reCaste to decide when to share it broadly but I was largely satisfied with it

opaque crescent
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I’m waiting for Foundry to push it to their modules page proper

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But if you want to run playtests or anything with it, just dm me and I can grab you the manifest url

muted blaze
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What were the enemies and sitrep 👀

vagrant grotto
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anyway, my personal notes:

  • Revised Sunzi felt good, didn't break the Escort mission like I would expect a normal Sunzi would
  • Capacitor is feeling satisfactory, probably add a caveat that Purifying Lightning only affect allies that already have overshield and add some damage scaling to High Voltage (Veteran)
  • Napalm is good, Incendiary Grenades shaped the flow of map movement (good!), Though I think I may finally reduce its burn damage to 4/6/8 to make it less of a "priority target"
opaque crescent
muted blaze
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Napalms and spites

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Gnarly

vagrant grotto
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Escort (Lift/Drag rules)

  • Elite Cataphract [K] (Capacitor Discharge, Electrified Lasso) x2
  • Veteran Capacitor (Purifying Lightning, High Voltage) x1
  • Spite [K] (Feedback Shield) x3
  • Thrall Squad Kit Squad x3
  • Napalm (Incendiary Grenade) x2
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elite cataphract #2 only came in on the last round or so

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Ah, H0R_OS 1: Network Binding was pretty cool. Got used vs. Elite Capacitor, it had to be careful about when to trip the Jammed while working towards the objective. Purifying Lightning peeled the Jammed off before its next turn, so that was just team synergy

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Capacitor Power Surge was mentioned as kinda niche for a base feature; I brought up adding Reliable as a tag, though I would probably be conservative with it (not the least because someone could use Capacitor with CRB multiattack stuff)

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like, "AP or Reliable 1/2/3", or "AP and Reliable 1/1/2" or something

muted blaze
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Give ap felt fine to me

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Not many NPCs have ap so buffing to have it feels easier t

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Mmmm

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Ap archer

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😩

opaque crescent
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The thing that was noted was that it very often can do nothing, especially at low LL

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Some parties just won’t have AP armour and so it has a base QA that wouldn’t do anything

muted blaze
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I'm not following...

opaque crescent
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Sorry, armour, not AP

muted blaze
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Oh I see

vagrant grotto
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that's mostly it

muted blaze
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Make next on hit paracausal, then clear OS

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?

opaque crescent
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Giving it reliable shouldn’t make it oppressive and lets it actually function at those low LL

vagrant grotto
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I don't like it clearing OS though

muted blaze
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Fair

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But perma paracausal is BAAAD

vagrant grotto
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I wouldn't make it perma paracausal 😛

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you're the one who mentioned paracausal, not me

muted blaze
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Yeah

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I was like "paracausal maybe??? Mmm it should clear if it does that"

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I feel like... Sure there's other systems that are useless depending on party comp too

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Ignore invis for example

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Normally it comes bundled with ignore hidden too and anyone can do that

vagrant grotto
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yeah no usually niche stuff has other benefits

muted blaze
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But condition clear too is a thing that could be useless on a party that just wants to kill people to death

vagrant grotto
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Scout Rebound Scan purges cover too

muted blaze
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CRB rebound scan is burst tho lmao

vagrant grotto
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yeah lol

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hard to use

muted blaze
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Rebake rebound 🔥

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"oh no, they're in cover"
"Bruh, they're 2 tiles away just fucking flank them"

vagrant grotto
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anyway, good data for Capacitor and Napalm today

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and Sunzi didn't drive me up the wall so that's a success in my book

opaque crescent
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I would like to retest it again with a party/sitrep that would benefit from its kit a bit more than today’s did

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Not that my loop felt bad, Blink Anchor + Metafold Carver feels really good

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But neither Accelerate nor Tunneler saw use

vagrant grotto
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Accelerate might’ve been able to kick the objective around

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Though maybe not safely

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Lose grip on it

opaque crescent
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Yeah I was looking for somewhere to try and set it up and I don’t think I ever really had the chance

dapper goblet
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The objective is under a child-safe cap

ashen crown
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Okay so I was thinking back on the White Witch !V! discussion.

I think, with any version of White Witch that decides to turn armor into a resource, it’s probably easier to make it work if the WW starts each scene with some armor rather than none.

Just thinking about it from this perspective- a White Witch that starts a scene with 0 armor will have to either take a lot of damage or spend a lot of time doing a new added mechanic to build up armor. By the time it gets enough armor to feel comfortable spending it, it’s low on HP and really needs the armor.

Whereas if it starts the scene with some armor, it feels more comfortable being a Defender and taking hits and spending armor before beginning to become conservative with it.

Imo, regardless of what direction you go in, if losing armor becomes easy or a resource, the WW has to start with some amount of armor. Maybe not all 6, but some amount.

placid glacier
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going over the V houserules stuff and my players are roasting it in the qrts 💀

muted blaze
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How so?

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Qrts?

placid glacier
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(the metaphorical quote retweets- (reference))

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just going over the changes in a call and my players are not receiving the (mostly long rim) changes well

granite saddle
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I mean yeah no shit, most of the changes are not for them
"Players be damned GMs will stand for this bullshit no longer" type shit, you know ?

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(other than the straight buffs to the bad frames that need it [lookin at you, minotaur and Atlas])

muted blaze
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And even the nerfed ones aren't nerfed to oblivion, they're atleast changed

granite saddle
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Apart from the Sunzi, the "nerfed" frames would maybe be like, Caliban (and Balor ?) and tbh that's more of a sidegrade than anything

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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For my part: Several of the reworked frames are new and untested so they might actually be ass! No idea yet

muted blaze
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The nature of having it in an LCP unfortunately makes it easier to be all or nothing than cherry pick

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But hey ho

vagrant grotto
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Just don’t pick the house ruled version MascHeckYeah

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I flag em with !V! On purpose

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
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I will continue to welcome constructive playtest feedback for whatever I’m brewing

ashen crown
granite saddle
vagrant grotto
granite saddle
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I mean yeah sure. It just kinda sucks for me.
At least they like the minotaur changes

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

vagrant grotto
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Think imma cut a release today before playing some spider man

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If anyone has more feedback that could make it into v1.13 then hmu

muted blaze
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What changes we seeing?

vagrant grotto
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Minor capacitor, napalm, and occultist stuff iirc

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Occultist Jealous Flock    Jealous Flock is powerful and prevents self heat.
Mesmerist Hall of Mirrors    Fast to turn off when allies are attacked, especially drones
Vulture Magpie Subroutines    May be slightly strong if it can be repeated with Overcharge
Zealot Undying Faith    CRB Grunts get a lot of mileage out of this
Capacitor Marathon Arquebus    Lots of power on Drones
Vulture Kit    May be powerful with CRB Ultras that repair themselves
Squeezing Rules    Would be good to codify squeezing in a public space
Interact Action    Would be good to have in a public document
Capacitor Power Surge    AP is "niche" and won't see much use at times
Capacitor Purifying Lightning    Potent when it can be done for free
Capacitor High Voltage (Veteran)    Low damage for T2
Napalm Salamander Thermobaric Catapult    Damage still makes players' eyes bug out
Napalm Incendiary Grenades    How to extinguish
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Also have acouple Anchor thoughts re: Newtonian Amplifier and Magnetic Reversal

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Newtonian Amp is hard to fit into actions alongside Lodestone

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mag Reversal and Lodestone are competing with each other (maybe less so now that Lodestone is Burst 2?)

muted blaze
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Ah so my playtest and yours

vagrant grotto
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basically

muted blaze
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So limiting capacitor to mechs I assume? And would undying faith be changed or was that just noted?

vagrant grotto
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This weapon does not attack allies. Non-DRONE allies in the affected area gain OVERSHIELD 2/3/4.
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thinking of bumping the OS to 3/4/5 nah

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Power Surge
System, Quick Tech
An ally with OVERSHIELD within SENSORS becomes supercharged. Their weapon attacks gain AP and RELIABLE 1/1/2 until they lose all OVERSHIELD or until the Capacitor uses this action again.
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started plugging in data into the Athena attack calculator to see how this would affect CRB Operators, and realized that CRB Operators at T3 have 100% chance of hitting an Evasion 8 target

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same with Ronin and anything with +6 +1 Accuracy

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minimum die roll is 1 on d20 and 1 on d6 + 6 = 8

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So, that means that adding Reliable to those offenders will mean nothing against Evasion 6-8 targets (which seems obvious I suppose)

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Now, I suppose the real concern in all of this is the high-evasion targets without armor

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so if I did Reliable 3 at T3, that means that Operator/Ronin/Specter will always deal 9 damage to a target, at minimum

At T3, we're at LL9 at least, meaning 5 Grit. So Goblin/size 1/2's will have 11 HP minimum

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mm. I think I stick to Reliable 1/1/2

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the scaling is weird but I can't assume folks are using Kai's Rebakes (as much as I think they should)

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How's this read for Purifying Lightning only triggering on allies that previously had OS:

PURIFYING LIGHTNING
Trait
Allies with OVERSHIELD affected by the MARATHON ARQUEBUS may clear up to one condition.
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nvm, gonna go with this:

Allies that already have OVERSHIELD may clear up to one condition when affected by the MARATHON ARQUEBUS.
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I lose a line but I have space to spare for this

vagrant grotto
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HALL OF MIRRORS (VETERAN)
Trait
The Mesmerist starts with an additional 1 mirror image and may use MIRROR IMAGE an additional time per round. It gains the VANISH reaction.

Vanish
Reaction, 1/round
Trigger: An ally in SENSORS is attacked.
Effect: The Mesmerist destroys 1 mirror image to grant the ally INVISIBLE against the attack.
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I'm doing what I swore I'd never do: Making a nested NPC Action

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though... maybe I can just... make it just a Reaction?

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if the Mesmerist has control over when it burns its mirror images then maybe it doesn't need extra

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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Also how was Mesmerist’s Mirror Image being 1/round btw?

vagrant grotto
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seemed fine I think?

ashen crown
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Huh, I Really expected it to weaken the Mesmerist a lot more

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I’m not testing an elite Mesmerist anytime soon but I do wonder how the 1/round affects elites

vagrant grotto
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part of the goal was to keep Elites from constantly being invisible

ashen crown
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Ah yeah I didn’t consider that- idk why I was thinking that Elite would cause them to be more vulnerable

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I will say I do miss the combo of Memetic Mag hitting multiple characters and making multiple mirror images but prolly for the best it got the sack

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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legitimately I'm fine with this affecting bios and stuff that isn't mechs like Vehicles

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I don't want it affecting Drones, that's all

ashen crown
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I forgot vehicle was a separate character type… wait is that where Vehicle’s trait budget goes? Turning mechs into not mechs?

vagrant grotto
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no clue

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not intentionally I'd say

ashen crown
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I just never really considered the implications of that. Wonder how much stuff that affects

vagrant grotto
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JEALOUS FLOCK
Trait
While adjacent to a FLOCK DRONE, the drone’s allies gain RESISTANCE to all damage from hostile sources, and hostile characters are SHREDDED.
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doesn't protect from heat, and only hostile sources now (burn is implicitly included)

ashen crown
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Idk why Burn is often not included with "damage"

vagrant grotto
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Lancer and redundancy, what can I say

ashen crown
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Whatever, add another Skirmisher to the game

vagrant grotto
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NPCs usually only have like, 1 of the first 4 options each

ashen crown
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Also out of curiosity, when it came to Vulture getting multiple Magpie’s per round, did the heat runaway not impact it in playtest?

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Imo a heat cap of like. 6 or 7 feels like a good way to soft nerf Magpie and keep the Vulture a little more in check vs giving it the 1/round tag but I’m no expert

vagrant grotto
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I didn't see multiple magpies per round tbh

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and i'm currently pondering multiple magpies actually being an issue

ashen crown
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Ah I saw it in the big post and thought it came up

vagrant grotto
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somebody mentioned it, as a thought

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I think that overcharge will naturally curtail it though

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even without my house rules

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honestly I think that's what's gonna keep CRB Ultra Vulture from being obscene

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Like, supreme maintenance already exists

ashen crown
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Do you think Rapid Refab should prompt a second heat cost or no?

vagrant grotto
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if it wants to be selfish, there's better ways to do that

ashen crown
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Plus an Ultra is gonna be slightly less glut with wrecks to use than in a standard Sitrep, purely on the basis of NPC budgets

vagrant grotto
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yeah no for the Ultra it's gonna be a matter of destroying/repairing its own shit

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that's the abuse case

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wrecks are an afterthought for them

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which, tbf, may be its consolation prize

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it's more self-sufficient in exchange for the fact that less wrecks exist on the field, because Ultra

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The Vulture may use “MAGPIE” SUBROUTINES as a full action for an additional 2 Heat. If it does, it chooses a second option to destroy, then chooses a second benefit, targeting the same character or a different one.
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Aight so: If someone runs a Vulture with Limitless and/or Ultra, lemme know how it goes and how Magpie interacts with things that let it be used several times per turn

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for now, I'm marking it as wontfix

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
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of course of course

ashen crown
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Btw typo in Coherent Entanglement (Ghost Ultra Trait) in v1.12 pdf: it says “every hostile action is taken against a character bonded with the Ghost”. The “is” needs to be removed

vagrant grotto
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done

ashen crown
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Reasonable Brain: “Ya know I wrapped up the combat prep for the playtest mission like a week ago, and they should be fine and balanced and hit all the required notes.”
Evil Brain: “Replace the Vultures with an Ultra. Make the Anchor an Ultra. Turn the Ghost into an Ultra.”

muted blaze
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And then they have double the mirror images

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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I think personally, it should only destroy the mirror image on a miss

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Just like in the mirror image

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Sacrificing one of your resources you gain 1/round for it to just hit could just suck

vagrant grotto
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done then

muted blaze
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Mmmmm

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I'm thinking of 1/round mesmerists mirror image... It's weird...

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Doing the maths in my head idk if like in average it should remain at 1 mirror image or increase/decrease over time...

vagrant grotto
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1/turn maybe

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like 2 mesmerists

muted blaze
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It makes 2 tech attacks per turn... One needs to hit for it to increase, so the amount it will gain each turn will never be more than one but can be less... So on average can tend lower... Yet depending on

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Yeah 1/turn might be the good middle ground

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It might just be that mesmerists are just vulnerable to focus fire

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Which is odd because that's what most defenders want

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Well, defenders that want you to shoot them instead of their allies

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This is my personal vibes maths tho

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(I thought it up and it made sense)

vagrant grotto
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I'm making it 1/turn

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it makes sense vs 2 mesmerists

muted blaze
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Yeah it means it doesn't skyrocket to oblivion yet doesn't drop immediately

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Aux spamming mesmerists is funny and needs to happen more

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Mesmerists are cool...

vagrant grotto
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I like to think so yeah

muted blaze
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I really need to use more PPG mechs. The ones I use I go "damn I love these" so therefore the rest must be pretty fucking neat

vagrant grotto
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well, that's the theory at least lol

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they can't all be winners though

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Thoughts on an Interact action in Escort: I know I have this "grab first, then wrest" setup. Would it make sense to have the wrest be built into the initial grab, instead?

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the way I see this going is "force a contested check, if you succeed you now are handling the object, if you fail you don't"

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what happens here though is that an enemy could flip the object and run away with it easier

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which may be disastrous

muted blaze
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Mmmm

vagrant grotto
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I'm letting it be for now

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I'm in the process of cutting a release

muted blaze
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I think I like it but I generally am somewhat against enemies taking the objective in the first place

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Yeah leave it for this release

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To me it serves as a similar thing to how I don't like defence objectives unless executed well. An elite cataphract can undo turns of progress on a slow party with an unlucky contested check

ashen crown
muted blaze
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Or their current 0-1

ashen crown
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Or 0-6 if they get lucky with 2 Memetic Magnetisms + invade

muted blaze
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That's true

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It means it just needs to hit 1/turn and it's good

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Rather than wanting to hit everything all the time to be untouchable

ashen crown
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Yeah it definitely feels like a better middle ground

vagrant grotto
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Update to 1.13!

itch.io
Update to 1.13!

1.13.0 NPC Classes Capacitor Marathon Arquebus Restrict to non-Drone allies only. Power Surge Affected allies additionally gain Reliable 1/1/2 for their weapon attacks. Purifying Lightning Restrict to...

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mm. forgot to look at Vulture armor

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it'll sit for now

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need more vulture feedback anyway

muted blaze
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Vulture armour felt fine for me IMO

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Napalm damage nerfed 😔

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Weird looking at that and it feels like a massive change... No, it's only -1 it ain't much

steel apex
vagrant grotto
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gifting an ally Reliable 1/1/2?

muted blaze
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AP reliable*

steel apex
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This is a scaling I've used before for things, suldan's conscripts have an optional weapon that gives them this, imo it's a good scaling because even smaller packets of reliable have a tendency to add up

vagrant grotto
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cool, sounds good to me then

steel apex
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it's hard to find a better way to scale it that doesn't become "oh at tier 3 this is Reliable 3 huh"

muted blaze
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OH NO REBAKE RAINMAKERS CAN NOW HAVE AP RELIABLE BACK 😭

vagrant grotto
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just shoot them lol

muted blaze
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As long as I don't equip the capacitor optional "this enemy gains javelin rockets"

steel apex
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Engineers out of the CRB also just have a straight up "flat Reliable 1" option for their turrets

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with the expectation that you're probably shooting with multiples

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but yeah, I think that sort of scaling pattern (1/1/2) is fine because it does gradually scale upwards but not in a way that I think gets out of hand

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This is PARTICULARLY relevant if you assume that this stuff will be in use for CRB units who might have multi-attack capabilities

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that is, now your Ronin is doing 3x reliable packets at the upper tier end of play

vagrant grotto
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I appreciate you weighing in, makes me feel more comfortable with this release now

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Anyway here’s where I’m at in optional testing, unless I missed something:

Anchor

  • [x] Newtonian Amplifier
  • [x] Magnetic Reversal
  • [x] Null-Grav Motivator (one big zone)
  • [x] Slingshot (vet)
  • [x] Tectonic wave (ultra)
    Capacitor
  • [x] Purifying Lightning
  • [x] High voltage (vet)
  • [ ] Thunderfall (ultra)
    Ghost
  • [ ] Superimpose Firmament
  • [ ] String Theory Marionette
  • [ ] Maxwell’s Demon (vet)
  • [ ] Coherent Entanglement (ultra)
    Hatchet
  • [ ] Rocket Bola
  • [ ] Reckless Dive (updated)
  • [ ] Return to Sender (updated)
  • [ ] Pull the Snare (veteran)
  • [ ] Hurricane of steel (ultra)
    Kensei
  • [ ] Gaussian Blur
  • [x] Pommel launcher (vet)
  • [ ] Mortal draw (ultra)
    Knight
  • [ ] Hero’s Banner
  • [ ] Punishing Blow
  • [ ] Mighty Throw
    Mesmerist
  • [ ] Mountebank’s Jaunt
  • [x] Hall of Mirrors (veteran)
    Napalm
  • [x] Incendiary grenade
    Occultist
  • [x] Jealous Flock
  • [ ] Harvest pyres
  • [ ] Doubling season (vet)
    Prism
  • [ ] Omniglass barriers
  • [ ] Scintillating gleam
    Torrent
  • [ ] Wash away
  • [ ] Crashing tsunami
  • [ ] Primordial (vet)
  • [ ] Split the sea (ultra)
    Vulture
  • [ ] Jumpstart
  • [ ] Carcass bunker
  • [ ] Rapid refabrication (ultra)
    Zealot
  • [ ] Flagellant’s Cleansing
  • [x] Rally the Righteous (reworked)
muted blaze
#

Not enough info on pommel launcher I assume?

vagrant grotto
#

lunch time

#

ah forgot pommel launcher

#

I'm happy with it from your playtest

muted blaze
#

It was funny and gave it a different role IMO

#

Instead of warning you to get away it just tells you to get away

vagrant grotto
#

yup, "I'm done asking"

muted blaze
#

"get on the other point idiot"

#

Even if it was detrimental to me both times

vagrant grotto
#

I think someone tried Mortal Draw at one point but I forget if they sent a report to me

#

In this channel, looks like Isa was gonna, but I know scheduling was a thing

granite saddle
#

That spatial rend buff is actually insane what the hell ???

#

"Yes my Cataphract should do 7 AP + 4 heat + grappled on a +1cc_difficulty hull save."

vagrant grotto
#

Aight I’ll reword it to push/pull/knockback it

granite saddle
#

(Impale is a pull)
(sorry)

muted blaze
#

Anomaly mirage with that "swap positions with an enemy" optional: "POWER WORD KILL"

vagrant grotto
#

Point blank impale strats

granite saddle
#

did spatial rend really need to be shadowbuffed like that ? It was already one of the stronger options I think.

muted blaze
#

Teleports you someone 20 tiles, give them 10 heat, expose them, give them 40 damage

vagrant grotto
#

I’m gonna ask you all to chill please

muted blaze
#

Sorgy

#

Anomaly is funny

vagrant grotto
#

The report I got was that spatial rend didn’t do much for what it was

#

Scaling based on distance was discussed

#

I went through with it though it seems I didn’t think the abuse cases through

#

I’ll revise it in a future patch, as it stands I don’t get much feedback on anomaly to begin with

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Lol yeah I just copy pasted from my notes, more feedback always welcome though

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

It was, yes

#

Bare minimum, 1/2/3 AP per teleport wasn’t cutting it

ashen crown
#

Seems like the only change that’ll affect my combats are the Magpie reword… which has no impact on that combat so literally nothing changes for me :p

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

I’m the person who makes the patch updates

#

Please keep up the play reports, I appreciate them

placid glacier
#

to be entirely fair when I used the optional, I was coming from it from the "discouraging player teleport" angle and less "buffing enemy involuntary movement force" angle-

ashen crown
#

IGF Act 2 Spoilers: ||I’m gonna give Odin spatial rend and watch my Warper Zheng Squeal >:)||

vagrant grotto
#

Scaling with a cap may even be reasonable, a la Minotaur Banish

#

Bottom line: I need to think harder about it

vagrant grotto
#

Starting to cook something

image0.jpg
muted blaze
#

Asked a question about it in GM corner but then realised it was posted here 💀

#

Just in case it gets buried in GM corner :P

vagrant grotto
#

Answer for the folks here and not there is “yes”

# 

Slip Drive
System, Quick Action
Teleport 2 spaces. This system can be activated even while Slowed or Immobilized.

Thunder Lance
Heavy Melee, 2 Heat (Self), +1/+2/+3
[Threat 1][6/8/10 Energy + 2 Heat]
As a full action, the Prototype may Boost in a straight line towards a hostile character and Skirmish against them with this weapon, ignoring engagement. On a hit, the Prototype and the target continue moving in a straight line together for a number of spaces equal to the Prototype’s remaining Boost movement.

Bleeding Edge
Main Melee, +1/+2/+3, +1 Accuracy
[Threat 2][6/8/10 Kinetic]
On critical hit: The target begins to “bleed” (whether that be blood, fuel, or another fluid). At the end of each of their turns, they must pass an Engineering Save or take 3/4/5 Kinetic AP damage. This effect lasts until the target succeeds on the save or Stabilizes to clear Burn.
muted blaze
vagrant grotto
# 
Directional Hardlight
System, 2 Heat (Self), Quick Action
The Prototype creates a Line 4 hardlight barrier 4 spaces high with at least one space adjacent to themselves. The barrier can overlap with characters and obstructions; characters that end their turn in the barrier or enter it for the first time in a round take 2/3/4 Burn damage. The barrier provides hard cover and blocks line of sight. It moves with the Prototype, remaining in the same relative position and direction, and lasts until the Prototype uses this system again, or until it is Stunned, overheated, or destroyed.

Lightning Rod
System
The Prototype has Resistance to Energy. In addition, if a character targets an ally in Range 3 of the Prototype with an attack that deals any Energy damage, the attacker must first pass an Engineering or only target the Prototype with the attack instead.

EMP Shielding
Trait
The Prototype can still attack with its weapons while Jammed.

Rebaked Bioplating
Trait
The Prototype gains +1 Accuracy on Agility checks and saves, ignores difficult terrain, can jump its full speed in any combination of horizontal and vertical movement, and can remain Hidden while Boosting. Additionally, the Prototype can Hide as a free action at any point in its Boost.

Chain Surge
System, Recharge 5+, Quick Tech
Choose a character in Sensors and line of sight. If the character is an ally, they gain Overshield 2/3/4; if hostile, they instead take 2/3/4 Energy damage. Then, you may choose a different character not yet affected by this system within the target’s Sensors and line of sight and repeat this effect against them. This system may affect no more than 3/4/5 characters in a single activation.
# 
Antigravity Uppercut
System, Recharge 5+, Quick Tech
One character adjacent to the Prototype must make an Engineering save or take be launched upwards 5 spaces into the air. Once aloft, the target is Immobilized and treated as if it were in zero-g; it may be freely pushed, pulled, and knocked back through the air. This effect lasts until the end of the target’s next turn, at which point it floats gently to the ground without taking damage from falling. A character can only be targeted with this system 1/scene.
#

Brainstormed stuff so far

#

Ostensibly if I brainstormed harder on my NPC class optionals, this is where they’d all end up lol

#

Tbf it’s a bunch of generic but neat features, not Weird™ or Illegal™, but Novel™

muted blaze
#

Thunder lance is cataphract light lol

#

They're neat

#

Putting rebakes bio plating on an assassin would be funny. And hiding as a free action during a boost is... Seems wild seems quite potent to me but like... Should see it in practice first

#

Anti-gravity upper cut is fun

placid glacier
#

Directional hardlight...

ashen crown
# vagrant grotto Starting to cook something

As big a fan I am of the concept of the Novel Technology trait, having that be the only base trait makes me have a hard time conceptualizing Prototypes as “legally distinct” from Anomaly if I can be honest. That’s just a flavor/vibes thing tho not really a big deal- I just feel that if the scan is going to have a numerical impact on gameplay the base template could have just a tad more meat on its bones. Doesn’t really feel like a template you can use en masse since that’d prompt a lot of scans and the difficulty is a pretty tangible bonus compared to Anomaly. With Anomaly it’s distinct, but once the NPC uses enough features you basically get an idea of what you’re dealing with if you know what the base class is. Meanwhile you can learn what a prototype’s deal is in practice but attacks will still have difficulty against it if you don’t scan.

The concept isn’t bad, I like it a lot, but it’s not scalable, and keeping that in mind I think the Template could afford to have some more power to represent that

#

Also, do “scan adjacents” still bypass Novel Technology (ex. Athena) or does it HAVE to be Scan?

#

(There’s no good way to codify that so like. Just asking)

dapper goblet
#

Small branding idea for prototype: make it explicitly trying to emulate the bleeding-edge tech of PC mechs.

#

A lot of these have rough flavor or mechanical equivalents on the PC side

#

(Ironically, except bleeding edge)

mild trail
muted blaze
#

True...

#

I've just seen hides as quite potent, on NPCs that aren't specters

ashen crown
#

Engineer hides are potent

ashen crown
muted blaze
#

Hey Valk... Question about house rules not PPG

#

Is Overpower rounds meant to be unique?

image.png
gaunt heron
#

GUH

#

why isnt it unique im so full of dread for our session 1 🥲

#

hmm yes I skirmish with my pistols aux/aux, whats that they both hit? Waiter? 14 averagge damage please :)

#

I have been reminded that the second attack can not have bonus damage but the point stands

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Aye fair

#

I mean, it gets access to blasting 15 damagge on hit per scene, split into 5 damage chunks... But it also means I just have no systems

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

Because players hate penalties but love bonuses

muted blaze
#

I think that's really cool unless you're fighting loads of them then it's just free accuracy

#

But the exact same thing can be said the other way around

vagrant grotto
#

As for “not legally distinct enough from Anomaly” listen. Don’t tempt me

#

How often have folks scanned anomalies in y’all’s games

muted blaze
#

I disagree, it looks legally distinct from anomaly

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
granite saddle
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Unfortunately that was a meme example

#

I will be using an OPcal CPR

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

Is that enough ?

vagrant grotto
#

We’ll find out!

granite saddle
#

Maybe it is, I just don't know yeah

muted blaze
#

What about scan beingg accuracy to that individual unit rather than all of the same type

granite saddle
#

Maybe just make sure they have access to a few reliable defensive options

vagrant grotto
#

The nice thing about difficulty is that I have reason to immediately reveal it

muted blaze
#

Yeah that's true

vagrant grotto
#

If I wanted scans to be limited to one guy I’d just have 1 guy of that type of guy

#

You scan them, you get the bonus, that’s the incentive. Scan more, it’s worth your time

muted blaze
#

Fair... In my mind, difficulty across the board 1 scan bringing it up to nothing feels like a good buff or playing to counteract their strength. Whereas if you scan one guy and gain accuracy against everyone that just feels like... IDK

#

Floating accuracy is already good... 1 scan onto perma lock on onto one unit already feels like a good buff

#

1 scan into perma lock on onto EVERY unit of the same type feels like... Ridiculous

placid glacier
muted blaze
#

✨ vibes ✨ tho... Not playtest

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

You never scanned my Ultra 😔

#

I had renamed abilities and everything

vagrant grotto
#

Was it an anomaly

muted blaze
#

No 😔

vagrant grotto
#

Then never mind, I’m in the right

muted blaze
#

😩

placid glacier
#

Maybe difficulty until they take their turn? Like npc sided Skirmisher 1

vagrant grotto
#

I’m trying to incentivize scan over brute force with this

#

Losing the difficulty for “free” won’t help with that

#

Hm something clever I just thought of that would only work in Foundry: Bonus Stat feature that you delete after it’s scanned

#

Just give it a flat +1 to every stat lol

#

Noting that for home table anomaly shenanigans

ashen crown
#

Tying in scan is something I think is an excellent idea and the mechanic is absolutely worth keeping around. But I don't think Prototype stands very surely without an additional base trait.

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

See Brigand I think is fine actually

vagrant grotto
#

Anomaly is the Weird, Brigand is the Illegal, and Prototype is the Novel

#

Brigand’s two base traits are ones that I regularly question keeping

ashen crown
#

Then I think our philosophies on Template design don't align, in which case, Prototype is fine as is

vagrant grotto
#

Because Veterancy is hard to track and Saves are easy to forget/time consuming

#

I totally get where you’re coming from for like, a different vibe of template

#

And I 10000% see the value in such templates and want to see them exist in the world

#

But that’s not what I’m gunning for here

ashen crown
#

Ye I getcha

vagrant grotto
#

My constant struggle with templates too is like, adding too much to an NPC

#

I add elite and I get 4 filler traits

#

Which like sure they aren’t important but that’s the issue, it’s mental stack trying to find the needle

#

And even if I tear them out, I add 1 new feature to an NPC and now it has 5 features

#

NPCs are fuckin loaded in Lancer

#

This isn’t Dnd where I get simple goblins and orcs and then adding the HORUS template to the orc gives it a third Weird Tech action

#

Like , and that’s the struggle

#

Because I want the template to be defining

#

But often it’s just overwhelming

ashen crown
#

Yeah it seems like the middle of an "impact curve" is more desired than the extremes, which is fair. I personally prefer the extremes, since on one end you have spacer that cleanly gives some nice optionals, and on the other you have SpecOps which gives 3 whole features and a new way to build OpFors. But sometimes you wanna make a few guys in a sitrep weird and hence there's value in those middling templates

#

Prototype does feel like it lends itself to moderation more heavily compared to anomaly with its scan gimmicks

vagrant grotto
#

The goal of Prototype is that you either make a special NPC with it, or you make a broad deployment of them

#

No grapes in the middle of the road

ashen crown
#

If you have a bunch of anomalies in a sitrep you're better off just waiting to see what features a majority of the opfor have and only scanning high priority targets. But if you have a bunch of Prototypes in a sitrep the action cost of scanning all of them will be debilitating enough on the actions that there's kinda no good options

vagrant grotto
#

No “6 unique NPCs all with prototype in this fight”

ashen crown
#

So the sweet spot is probably "at most 4 distinct prototype loadouts" and even that's pushing it

#

If you made it so that Scan gave you accuracy against them you could easily make a full Prototype OpFor, but imo that's less interesting than the current idea

vagrant grotto
#

And like, this is mission long too

#

Hell, campaign long

#

You scan the Prototype Kerberos MK 2 you keep the bonus as long as they keep deploying them

dapper goblet
#

So i do want to say at a skim I like most of these but the hard jam counter im not a huge fan of. Id rather it was a more common but weaker effect? Maybe impaired?

I dunno, it lives in the same bucket as steel jaw to me which I have weird feelings about

vagrant grotto
#

Noted

#

More stuff:

Specialized
Trait
The Prototype chooses two mech skills from Hull, Agility, Systems, and Engineering. It gains +1 Accuracy on checks and saves for one mech skill and +1 Difficulty on checks and saves for the other.

I Know Nothing, For Your Information
Trait
This NPC can critically hit. It may choose to reduce the damage of its weapons to gain a number of damage dice of the same damage type, as shown below:

    • 4 damage: 1d6
    • 7 damage: 2d6
    • 10 damage: 3d6 

Doomscroll
System, Recharge 4+, Quick Tech, +1/+2/+3
Make a tech attack against a character in Sensors. On a hit, they are inundated with ads, spam, and fake outrage posts, gaining 2 Heat and becoming Impaired. They remain Impaired until they succeed on a Systems save at the end of their turn; on each failed save, they receive an additional 2 Heat. A character can only be affected by this system 1/scene.

Xnopyt Potato
System, Recharge 5+, Full Tech, +1/+2/+3
Make a tech attack against a non-Drone character in Sensors. On a hit, they must choose one the following:
    • Become Shredded and Slowed until the end of their next turn.
    • They and all targets previously affected by this action gain 1 Heat, and they choose a different character in Sensors previously unaffected by this action to receive its effect.

ROKO-Class NHP
System, AI
The Prototype has the AI tag. If a character in Range 3 takes a hostile action against a target other than the Prototype, they gain a Gaze Mark. The Prototype can expend the Gaze Marked to gain +1 Accuracy on an attack roll against the marked character or force the marked character to take +1 Difficulty on a save inflicted by the Prototype. This increases to +3 Accuracy and +3 Difficulty while the Prototype is in cascade.
# 
AUNTIE-Augmented Minigun
Superheavy Cannon, AI, Reliable 2/3/4, Smart, Seeking, +1/+2/+3
[Range 8][8/12/16 Kinetic]
The Prototype gains the AI tag, but cannot cascade. On the same turn as attacking with this weapon, the Prototype can take one of the following actions as a free action once before the end of the turn: Boost, Grapple, Hide, or Ram.

Firewall Molt
System, Deployable, Recharge 5+, Reaction
Trigger: The Prototype receives an effect from a tech action.
Effect: The Prototype first creates a holographic afterimage in its space with the same Evasion and E-Defense as itself, but only 1 HP. While the afterimage exists, when the Prototype receives an effect from a tech action, the afterimage halts the effect, preventing it from affecting the Prototype. Track each effect halted in this way; once the afterimage is destroyed, the Prototype immediately receives all halted effects as normal.
dapper goblet
#

Auntie minigun is killing me

vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
#

This is the first time ive been compelled to point this out on the npc side but this almost feels like a cousin (hehehehe) to the integrated superheavy issue on player mechs

You no longer have a Breacher when this optional exists. You have a platform for the auntie minigun

vagrant grotto
#

Me, imagining Hades 2 Hestia powering a minigun

dapper goblet
#

The industrial superheavy gets away a bit more with this because its melee

vagrant grotto
#

Maybe I add “Activate” to the list of quick actions

#

And/or quick tech

#

Maybe

#

Will mull it over

#

It’s 1 optional at least

dapper goblet
#

Thats a notable power bump to its current existence, but i think you could get away with it if you kill seeking

#

Yeah I mean i dont think its NEARLY as bad as your average first homebrewers 5d6 pacerless range 20 superheavy

vagrant grotto
#

I don’t know, I think players need to memento mori sometimes

“This is why I nerf seeking”

placid glacier
#

The phrasing on reverse I know everything is a bit weird- took me a couple tries to parse that "Oh it's averaging out crit damage"

vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
#

I think you just have to decide if youre ok with an optional basically rewriting an npc. If you are, then thats reasonable, please move about the cabin

vagrant grotto
#

“This is how you add damage dice to NPCs”

south cypress
vagrant grotto
placid glacier
vagrant grotto
placid glacier
#

I may just be illiterate oops

vagrant grotto
#

You’re good! These are rough af

#

Some may not make it to Final Cut

placid glacier
#

I mean I like it

#

Getting the GM in on the gambling lol

placid glacier
steel apex
vagrant grotto
#

Hm maybe

steel apex
#

Just thinking that it seems like you want future scans to carry over to similar units and how you might play around with that

#

so if you scan a Prototype Assault or something, the GM decides "okay, this has X optional" and from now on, that is what the Prototype Assault has in that campaign

ashen crown
#

that sounds kinda annoying to track

granite saddle
#

About Xnopyt Potato, if you're hit with it and you choose to pass it on, you are supposed to be able to send it to an enemy, correct ?

#

Also, for I Know Nothing, can you for example take a 16dmg weapon and split it 10+4+2 for a final 4d6+2 damage ?
Also, when is the choice to die-ify the damage made ? Before the attack or in the "rolling damage" phase ?

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

impossibly funny then, carry on

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
# vagrant grotto More stuff: ``` Specialized Trait The Prototype chooses two mech skills from Hul...

I know nothing of your information: Wacky and weird and cool. But can someone take a negative of 10 and deal negative damage?

Doomscroll: Lmao what... Also do you still suffer the effect of ragebating if someone clears your impaired? as orator explicitly says impaired can't be cleared so does the effect end if the impaired is removed?

Roko-class: Sounds like a lot of words for a new status which is just lock on+, sorry it's kind of blunt but... It is just lock on plus

#

Prototype enemy: Shows ragebait and horrible social media
Harrison armouries: Immune to propaganda from superior by design

vagrant grotto
#

But yeah stuff to think about

granite saddle
muted blaze
sudden cosmos
#

I've been so busy trying to get my printer working that I missed WW talk over the past few days bweh

ashen crown
#

“Over” is a strong word

ashen crown
#

Anomaly’s Soul Split doesn’t override incompatible templates like Ultra, rights?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Neat- 3 grunts with supreme melee and Devestator

vagrant grotto
#

yup, lemme know how it goes

ashen crown
#

This is mainly just theory but I do hope to test the concept in the distant future

vagrant grotto
#

I think it'll just fuck up your ultras unless you do something cheeky like wait until the end of the round to have the Anomaly extend the tail

ashen crown
#

Which could be anywhere from half a year from now til never

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

ah good I caught the "turns per round" to 1

#

so at least it can't make 1 ultra with 2 turns into 3 ultras with 2 turns, at the end of the round

#

though, I may change it so the copies can't act this round

ashen crown
#

I mean the thing is is that it turns whatever you hit with it from an enemy with HP to 2/3/4 activations that can each be one shot

#

So yes maybe it would be better to let them activate later, but the soul split target is nine times out of ten going to become far more vulnerable- it’s essentially a last ditch effort regardless how you spin it

opaque crescent
#

Gauging interest for a playtest on <t:1762624847:F> 👀

opaque crescent
#

Can also be very easily convinced to push this back if that’s better

vagrant grotto
#

I will be out, but go for it

#

Tbh I think all my weekends from now to end of year are spoken for

#

Yall should play and have fun haha

velvet cairn
muted blaze
#

Rebake devestator says "I destroy objects" not "I destroy grunts"

placid glacier
#

@vagrant grotto sorry for the @ but I was wondering if you had anything you wanted tested in the Brigand template since I got a good excuse to use it

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
#

I'll give enforce limiters a shot then

placid glacier
#

The encounter ended a bit too quickly to gather too much play feel of Enforce Limiters but it did force my Sherman player into popping both core and redundant systems upgrade in a single turn to circumvent the Overheat after she got hit with Limiters

vagrant grotto
#

Lol nice

muted blaze
#

Should spatial rend stack if I have multiple anomolies with the same trait?

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Cool... I assumed so...

vagrant grotto
#

Cool

muted blaze
#

I'm curious if that needs to be said in the trait or not lmao

vagrant grotto
#

Probably

granite saddle
#

I'd say no with the whole "effects with the same name don't stack", but I am also a fan of adding stuff to the faq so try there

placid glacier
#

actually I did have potentially a dumb question on Enforce Limiters

#

I was wondering if the specific phrasing of clearing Overheated circumvent the clear overheat on stabilize?

image.png
vagrant grotto
#

But good catch, good to think about

placid glacier
#

Can it still be cleared with a stabilize and choosing to clear it as a condition?

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
#

Gotcha

#

I'll pass it along then

placid glacier
# vagrant grotto It’s meant to circumvent it yes

ok talking with my players after this clarification, they think it's a bit steep in terms of action loss punishment (bringing up comparisons to Lock/Hold Javelins from hornet)

I'll probably give it another crack in a (hopefully) longer lasting encounter for some more solid playtest feedback, but I just wanted to bring it up now

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

Oooh yeah, NPC QA for PC FA is rough actually

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

True yeah. Question is, are you really bringing this if it's not gonna do much anyways ?

vagrant grotto
#

Valid!

granite saddle
#

I think if you make it a QA to clear you don't need stabilize to clear it too, if it's doing its job the target probably won't mind stabilizing anyways so it ends up not being much in the end

#

Not sure I make sense but you probably get it enough

vagrant grotto
#

I get it

muted blaze
#

Another thing about the brigand and Occultist I noticed

#

Lead astray - recharge 5 - Occultist: tech attack at 2/4/6 against a drone to gain control for a turn (quite potent because it's a drone ebased person and can eat the drone)

Commandeer - recharge 4 - Brigand: no tech attack, control drone for the rest of the scene until contested skill check is made

#

Feels a bit odd

#

Commandeer is just better lead astray, in a lower recharge for a longer duration with a guaranteed success chance. At the only cost being that the person using it may not love to eat the drones for Jam's or bennies

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

I think the bizarre part was when making the playtest I ran when I had brigand occultists :P

#

Which I think is the strangest part is when they overlap

granite saddle
#

I. Eat. Your. Drones. I eat 'em up !

ashen crown
#

I could see justification for potentially lowering the Lead Astray attack modifiers and removing Recharge, but that’s a “learn in playtest” thing

#

And potentially increasing the Commandeer recharge value

#

I do think making Commandeer’s effects be mechanically more potent than Lead Astray is a good idea, but I also think there’s a merit to making Lead Astray be a more regular action sink, especially because it introduces the possibility of using Lead Astray on allied drones

#

(Still needing to roll to hit ofc)

muted blaze
#

I think the ordnance jammed when a drone pops just wants an allied drone

#

Not an occultists

#

I'll double check that

#

No it isn't

#

Reap the chaff is a controlled drone so you're right. But it's also an allied grunt...

#

Ooooh, puppeteer Occultist sounds fun

ashen crown
#

Yeah any drone = multiple occultist/occultist + engineer nonsense which could be too much

muted blaze
#

I mean I did that last time

#

Unfortunately players are very good at noticing that engineers are problems

placid glacier
velvet cairn
#

@vagrant grotto

Question.

If an Operator Mech gets mogged

does this trigger first or does self-erasure

and if so, can the other trigger?

image.png
vagrant grotto
#

“If any” is to handle cases of Self Erasure

ashen crown
#

You know Brigand got me thinking about it- I do think Merc isn’t necessarily in need of a alt/update, it’s one of the better designed CRB templates imo, but if I were to go about doing something like that for Merc I think more optionals that are like Favors Owed and focus on Limited or 1/scene stuff could be cool

dapper goblet
#

Merc always feels... loose to me

#

Nothing on the list ever feels impactful imo

ashen crown
# dapper goblet Merc always feels... loose to me

I beg to differ. It’s a very accuracy stack-y template that also encourages specific gank tactics, which naturally leads to targeting the weakest link.

The base trait opportunist encourages allies to get near the PCs in order to buff the merc, Bounty Hunter and Efficient Killer highlight high priority targets to focus efforts on and hit them while they’re down, and the limited ones all punish grouping up of some kind

#

All around a solid template that feels cohesive in my book

dapper goblet
#

Then beg.

ashen crown
#

I… just did

vagrant grotto
#

I always sleep on merc and spacer

dapper goblet
#

(Sorry whenever anyone says "i beg to differ" I have the impulse to say that)

#

I dunno, merc feels very personality-less and unimpressive to me

vagrant grotto
#

Things suddenly became very tense

dapper goblet
#

Spacer is a very good template to the point where im not sure it needs an expansion

ashen crown
ashen crown
dapper goblet
#

You can always build more in but it doesnt feel begging for it

vagrant grotto
#

It’s competing with the bonkers pirate optionals on the same page

dapper goblet
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Turf?

dapper goblet
#

Pirate is status control, spacer is movement control

ashen crown
ashen crown
#

The day has been very long

dapper goblet
#

The base trait isnt something i ever consider tbh

#

Spacer can definitely be built out but I dont feel like its limited as is. Just a tight package of punt-guns

ashen crown
#

That’s something I for sure don’t agree with- a good template in my book has to have a solid base trait or two

#

It doesn’t need to be big, just solid

placid glacier
dapper goblet
#

I just think of non-structure templates as packets of stuff

ashen crown
#

And Merc does have a strong mechanical identity- apart from last word, every one of its traits contributes to gaining more and more accuracy

dapper goblet
#

And favors owed

ashen crown
#

Prone gives accuracy

dapper goblet
#

I guess but ime favors owed always amounts to "okay time to leave"

#

Nobody is looking at favors owed going "ah, the prone-inator

ashen crown
#

It doesn’t deal Knockback and is limited 1

#

So unless the players know about it in advance it doesn’t actually discourage anything, just punishes grouping up one time

dapper goblet
#

My players scan a lot i guess

ashen crown
dapper goblet
#

Anyway this is just a difference of opinion on how we view templates i guess

ashen crown
#

I just think if you wanted an optional package then the optional is more defining than the template itself, and therefore there’s not really a reason to have different templates in the first place as opposed to just a single “custom” template that indicates the NPC has an extra optional

vagrant grotto
#

aight so which PPG mech would you love to make a Merc

ashen crown
#

Hm. Weirdly, Occultist

#

Say an Ally is by an enemy- well now you have accuracy on Diviner Darts against them, which means you have higher odds to move a Flock drone next to both the ally and the target. And since you can diviner darts multiple characters, you can do that against 2 possible targets and really spread influence with a lot more effect

#

Moreover the Last Word optional can really lean into jam, you can use the Merc drone to good effect, and stuff like Bounty Hunter and Efficient Killer allow you to really condition control one guy in particular to scary effect

#

It’s easier accuracy than other templates and traits while also leaning into the Occultist’s preferred playstyle, which is really useful

#

Vulture also enjoys being or being around Mercs due to the surplus of Limited Optionals

#

Knight is also a good option thanks to Compelled Duel either doubling down on the “kick someone while they’re down” mechanics, or to let allies that are giving them their accuracy not immediately get murdered thanks to the Mark while also applying their Conditions better

ashen crown
#

If you made an all Merc OpFor, Occultist, Knight, and Vulture would fit in very well

velvet cairn
#

I'm having too much fun making a final boss

image.png
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

"an unknown enemy appears"
"Cool, I scan it"
Drops 50 page document on table
"Good luck understanding what this thing is capable of, because I sure as hell don't know"

#

Anomaly MBT with the copy another enemy and mimic their appearance is funny

#

Cool, two priests enter the field. This one has its armour plating facing this direction

#

The other one has a visible crackling field around themself

velvet cairn
#

It be a prototype adaptive von-neumann deep space satellite

latest.png
#

The anomaly trait is "Bottom of the Well"

steel apex
#

My issue with Mercenary is that A). several of its optionals are basically just slightly different versions of things you can get elsewhere (it has a flare drone analogue off the bombard, it has an orbital bombardment analogue, etc) and B). I think the idea of "the mean dirty tricks crew" has a lot of overlap with Pirate, and then outside of that you have stuff that rewards going for a hard kill against units which are already in the lowercase danger zone, which feels like a weird thing to be pushing GMs towards

#

I think the most "yeah this is neat" thing off the Mercenary template to me is Bounty Hunter which creates its own little mini-objective (one of the PCs is marked by all Mercenaries) and it's the thing I think I'd want to see expanded on the most

#

I think for my tastes Mercenary has a bit too much Accuracy floating around, mainly I don't think it really needs Efficient Killer on top of Opportunist and Bounty Hunter

dapper goblet
#

Yeah i think the incentives to focus down a single player are ultimately what bother me the most. I hadn't really found words for it but "pour the fire on one player" doesnt feel like great gming

placid glacier
# velvet cairn I'm having too much fun making a final boss

https://youtu.be/zVXYMK0pdwI

YouTube
Il Principe Terrgore Antediluvian of The Old World
Lord Horrik Canorem, High Prince of House Canorem | Shootas, Blood ...

Lord Horrik Canorem, High Prince of House Canorem, Son of High King Valorik Canorem, Master of the Blade of Gaia, Keeper of the Gates of Loralo, Wielder of the Kaloric Flame, Bringer of Hope, Herald of the Holy Order of the Adamantine Lance, The Paladin of Koto, Slayer of the Lion of Essa, the Triumphant, the Light of Stars, the Eradicator

▶ Play video
velvet cairn
#

I have a bad habit of making final encounters more like climaxes of action films

#

In this case i absolutely stole inspiration from time crisis 2's prototype satellite final boss

ashen crown
# steel apex My issue with Mercenary is that A). several of its optionals are basically just ...

You know that’s fair, and I will agree on that “mixing theming” bit. I still think it’s still a very cohesive template with its mechanics and themes, but the themes it taps into can be both Pirate Coded and Mercenary Coded.

I would be interested in potentially inverting Efficient Killer and maybe changing its effects- something like “bonus on weapon attacks against characters with full HP,” encourage the opposite of ganging up.

#

Though I will say I like the theming of Favors Owed, but that could easily have its effects changed to differentiate it. The flare drone I also am not the most interested in when it comes to the template even if in theory a Template Drone is fun

ashen crown
#

Terrible Orchis Analogue Idea- Size 1 Anchor w/ Omninet Grounding and Cross Class Leech’s Lonely Chassis

sudden cosmos
#

Once more I am down a person for one of my Lancer sessions and have a chance to test some PPG stuff.

#

@vagrant grotto gimme something to get data for

#

With the understanding that it'll be played into a white witch (so probably not kensei)

ashen crown
#

Literally next week (FINALLY) I get to test Vulture and Occultist, so that’ll be fun

#

Fun thing about that- giving my players time to strategize by previewing the map, the Hydra player was considering popping his core power that combat.

Ya know.

The one with Lead Astray Occultists

:)

#

I’m gonna have a lot of fun using Reap the Chaff on Snare Drones

vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
#

I'm struggling to think if what I could use atm since there's a 100% chance any important NPC is going to get JK1 grappled into combat irrelevance as fast as possible

vagrant grotto
#

Okay, Knight with Mighty Throw

#

Or Ultra Ghost with Coherent Entanglement

ashen crown
#

A regular Torrent also works I think

vagrant grotto
#

if the worry is "the JK1 user is gonna kidnap someone and bring them back to spawn all in 1 turn" then yeah I don't have much here

sudden cosmos
#

Bonus context: avoiding torrents because they're gonna be used in an upcoming campaign

vagrant grotto
#

other than "have you considered nerfing JK1 to like, 3 jumps per turn, as Tom intended"

sudden cosmos
#

I have. Substantially.

#

If you're okay with putting a limiter on JK for the test, I'll happily do it.

vagrant grotto
#

yes please

#

otherwise the data is muddled

sudden cosmos
#

I'd be doing it already if I wasn't testing SWD for as-vanilla-as-possible Lancer conditions (a loathsome place to be ngl)

vagrant grotto
#

yeah no I purposefully restrict wild shit during playtests too

sudden cosmos
#

All 3 PCs got a structure stun last night so round 6 was incredibly funny

vagrant grotto
#

I forbade Sunzi in Technophobia because... Sunzi

#

specifically for a 1-off combat in the Engine Room

sudden cosmos
#

Player turn! You're stunned.
NPC turn...
Player turn! You're stunned.
NPC turn...
P l a y e r T u r n

vagrant grotto
#

like yeah okay I'm not testing against "vanilla Lancer" in my playtests, but I'm doing that mostly because a lot of vanilla Lancer can be very swingy, to the point where aspects of the system can drown out the rest of the test

I don't wanna be in an arms race with official content, trying to build around Sunzi and JK1 shenanigans to the point of warping my brews around that stuff

ashen crown
#

Oops wrong reply

#

Meant to reply to Isa

vagrant grotto
#

the force move resist doesn't apply to grapples tbf

#

which is intended, it's wack otherwise

ashen crown
#

Well then there’s still the other half

vagrant grotto
#

indeed, that's the real kicker

ashen crown
#

(Coulda swore Charged Minuano did Knockback but maybe that was an earlier version- no Knockback makes sense if the goal is to punish enemies nearby anyhow)

vagrant grotto
#

legit I'm assuming that the worry was JK1 one-turn kidnaps, where the knockback doesn't matter as much since they're already in Oz

#

with no easy yellow brick road to take them back home

sudden cosmos
#

There's a WW on the table so no kensei for the purposes of not providing wacky data

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

yes, but that's not the goal of the grappler

sudden cosmos
#

Kensei has to hit through 18 evasion in this case, so unless I give it swarmlink (which would be funny) so knockback is iffy

vagrant grotto
#

the grappler has done their job, now the team is gonna kick the target like that one jo jo meme

sudden cosmos
#

Suffice to say, no kensei data from this party

vagrant grotto
#

then the JK1 grappler next turn repeats the process

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

in any case, this is just Vanilla JK1 + SMN being Vanilla JK1 + SMN

#

the counterplay from the GM is "build a map that fucks over JK1"

sudden cosmos
#

Puts mass inversion on and make the atlas smell toast for a few minutes

ashen crown
#

Do any of the PPG stuff that needs testing do stuff with with terrain destruction and/or Slow?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Also, technically speaking Anchor is immune to that nonsense while Lodestone is active because the grappler would be slowed and thereby prevented from using JK1

sudden cosmos
#

A map that counters JK1 in this case is smash brothers final destination, which isn't an especially good map for Lancer

vagrant grotto
#

the issue is that it goes first and abducts someone, then the team focus fires (assuming it takes more than 1 striker to kill the abductee)

#

it's hard to fuck over a plan that's akin to "Step -> Grapple -> Step"

ashen crown
#

Yeah I get the goal and how RAW JK1 operates (I have a Grapple Kidnapper Zheng so the general idea I’ve seen), I’m just trying to think over ways you could fairly resist it without rewriting any player mechanics

#

Even if rewriting stuff like Zheng or JK1 is probably easier from a game balance perspective

#

It’s more just something I’m thought experimenting than anything

vagrant grotto
#

Legit, if I wasn't allowed to house rule JK1 + SMN, I'd just ban the combo

#

but I'm me, and I'm one person

sudden cosmos
#

A part of me wonders why the JK1 limiter isn't included in errata as a Word of Tom fix but that's bogotterSips

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

like a lot of Word of Tom

ashen crown
#

Also Word of Tom errata tends to be changing no more than a single word or clarifying intent

#

AFAIK Massif has no plans or desire to do an official errata to Lancer

vagrant grotto
#

(also Discord is trying to auto detect users when I type them and it's scaring me that it'll accidentally ping Tom )

vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
#

It would be nice. Especially some of the more dire things.

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

it's mostly "lancer-faq gets incorporated"

sudden cosmos
#

See: mag canon, soul vessel, blink mine/warp grenade

ashen crown
#

Yeah Mag Cannon is probably the biggest CRB one

#

Turns the weapon from “really difficult” to “really fun” in just a word

sudden cosmos
#

Someone who plays Lancer without pnet as a resource gets a substantially different experience than someone who doesn't because of how broadly things like errata are shared here, and I think that's one of the worst parts of Lancer (imo)

#

Especially since, as my thoughts with JK1 are concerned, there is a bit of gatekeeping-

(which isn't the right word, so I mean gatekeeping in the media studies sense than the social/behavioral sense)

-aspects to what is deemed sufficient Word of The Authors errata and what is just "author is freestyling so we can ignore this"

ashen crown
#

Tbh the only major errata I’ve heard about are just Blink Charges and Mag Cannon (there’s Nightmare but that’s just giving it a Unique tag), so I feel like it’s not that severe

ashen crown
sudden cosmos
#

Soul Vessel not mentioning status immunity is also functionally colossal, imo

ashen crown
#

Oh it doesn’t?

#

Oops

vagrant grotto
#

but yeah, to bring it back around to PPG: There are some egregious interactions in Vanilla Lancer that will cause issues no matter what gets thrown at them. If a GM doesn't want those interactions to coat a playtest in noise, I recommend they ban them or rework them to get a clearer signal on the playtest

#

An incomplete list for me that will cause noise is:

  • The Structure and Overheating tables
  • Sunzi
  • JK1 + SMN
#

ASURA HMG Everest of various flavors probably goes on there too, as well as Everest with CP or Gorgon with CP up

ashen crown
#

Really looking forward to using the Occultist and Vulture this time around, I think for the setup I have they’ll be really fun

vagrant grotto
#

looking forward to the feedback!

ashen crown
#

I think with your custom Gauntlet rules + my Gate Gimmick for the Sitrep I’ll have good opportunity to trigger the Flock Drone effects

muted blaze
#

My mind is full of kensei

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

I'm not running lancer atm

vagrant grotto
#

Oh

muted blaze
#

I don't have any active games

vagrant grotto
#

Rip

muted blaze
#

Yeah

#

😔

#

Also if I start doing more playtest stuff it's probably gonna be post I've actually started doing stuff for my talent rework rather than the theory and blog part

#

Which is important

#

But I realised I'm curious what something like a mirage or desant hard points support would be like with a kensei. Because they would negate the movement and slowed penalties... Then again that's just like demo+mirage

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah

#

It’s less feast or famine though

placid glacier
sudden cosmos
#

Right now I'm thinking about a pair of veteran knights with punishing blow and mighty throw (but not valor) for this combat (sitrep TBD. May be testing my my own-ish one.).

#

Are there any buddies you'd like to see a knight have?

vagrant grotto
#

I’d say Ghost but I think that would break Compelled Duel

#

Like, in a “this ceases to work” way

#

Capacitor wouldn’t be bad, neither would Occultist for keeping the big lads standing

#

Vulture and Zealot also have a few toys to test (jumpstart and flagellant’s cleansing) that Knight might like

#

Hopefully this has given some ideas?

opaque crescent
#

Are the control alt. rules documented anywhere? Wanted to try it out with my group tonight

vagrant grotto
# opaque crescent Are the control alt. rules documented anywhere? Wanted to try it out with my gro...

not currently but lemme break it down:

  • First team to 2x PC count points wins
  • To score a point, use an Interact action (1/turn, can be a protocol or a quick action) on an objective
    • If no hostiles adjacent, you automatically get the point
    • If yes hostiles adjacent, you must pass a contested check against one of them (and only one) to score the point
  • 3 Control objectives, each can be scored 1/round per team (so Red team and Blue team can score the same objective in a round)
  • No time limit, but should last around 3-4 rounds (teams score about 2 points per round in my experience)
  • Otherwise runs the same as default Control re: Deployment and Reinforcements
opaque crescent
#

Thank you ✨

#

I will attempt to amass feedback from my (very sleepy) group

vagrant grotto
#

fixed my point count bullet; 2x PC count points to win does the trick for 3-4 rounds of play

#

3x PC count goes to 5-6 rounds-ish

static kernel
#

if a Hatchet RTS-es a weapon that causes self heat or stuff like that, it also takes those, correct?

#

but it wouldn't apply any talent modifiers on the attack?

vagrant grotto
#

Hm, yeah probably

#

The hatchet is throwing it back so heat would make sense I suppose

Limited wouldn’t but we would have to accept that it could just work

static kernel
#

well, limited even works if we accept that it just snapshots whatever value the attacker had and then immediately loses it

#

eg- if you have 2 charges, i have 2 charges when i repeat the action, and then i have 0

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah

static kernel
#

uhhhh, what about weapon mods or core bonuses? would it copy those?

vagrant grotto
#

Yes to weapon mod, no to CB

#

Cb isn’t built into the weapon the same way

#

Honestly I’m understanding why Rebound makes the attacker repeat the attack now

static kernel
#

yeaaahhh i kind of figured it was the simplest way to do it in general

vagrant grotto
#

I might reword it to “hatchet interrupts, changing the target to the triggering character, moving AOEs as appropriate”

#

Probably cleaner

static kernel
#

hmmm, i'm gonna run an RTS hatchet (which is going to be a very nasty surprise for my pinaka tagetes lol) so i might just try running it with the updated wording for the sake of clarity

muted blaze
#

Hmmmm

#

I could run another playtest next week...

opaque crescent
#

👀

muted blaze
#

@vagrant grotto anything outstanding that needs a playtest?

sudden cosmos
#

I set up everything for a knight test and then the player I thought was gonna be missing became available videogames

#

Guess I'll keep that in the back pocket

vagrant grotto
#

@muted blaze

muted blaze
#

Sick

muted blaze
#

Felt cute, might playtest some house rules and PPG content later

<t:1763924400:F> pls react if interested

We've had a drop out, send me a DM if you're interested

#

Doing an hour earlier in the day may also be viable

sudden cosmos
#

If it's at 2, I could join

#

If it's earlier, I cannot

muted blaze
#

Is 2 the time I listed?

sudden cosmos
#

Yes. I was more saying "doing an hour earlier in the day may be viable"

#

so that time works. earlier does not

muted blaze
#

Sick, then we can have it at the time listed 😛

#

First comes first served. You say can't do earlier therefore we can't do earlier

granite saddle
#

Unfortunately I really can't, but good luck with the game anyways !

ashen crown
#

@vagrant grotto Just did my Elite Occultist + Baseline Vulture Playtest, here are my thoughts!

Occultist was very fun, the Heat on summoning the Flock Drones helped keep it in check, and the limitation of not destroying drones that were deployed that round was good (though I think I made an incorrect ruling assuming the "on deployment" drones didn't count as being summoned that round). Even got to use Lead Astray, hitting once and missing the other time + getting to Reap a Snare Drone after Leading it Astray. Players liked it, and thanks to Reap the Chaff the tech attack + recharge feels extremely warranted.

Was also running Pyres, and those felt fun! The players were on top of wrecking the drones, and because it was 1/round the Pyre damage only came up when the players destroyed the wrong drone rather than any drone. It was a fun tactical element.

I will say that the negative effect of Reap never triggered, but while the players thought that the Overshield was fine, the Condition Clear was too much (and it did come up for clearing Lock On + Shred). Since it affects all adjacent characters and isn't as expensive as, say, Magpie (which is Single Target), it could be a little weaker while still being an AOE, which I'm inclined to agree with. Can't say anything about the offensive effect but the Overshield feels like enough to me - as a GM the condition clear made me feel dirty.

Running out of characters so Vulture will be in next message

#

The Vulture had absolutely 0 critiques from the players. I used two of them, both of them got a chance to use Magpie and fire their guns. The guns' AOEs and lingering effects were significant, I even used the LoS block in some nasty ways and didn't mind occasionally pinging an ally with it. Moreover their flight felt fair and fun, even in 0g. The players also really liked Magpie, and I loved using it- I only used a Wreck as a source once, the rest were destroying a Phosphorus Cannon and destroying a half-used Marine Barricade System.

The only critique I as a GM have is that 2 armor could be a bit much, it felt wrong when the vultures kept taking hits and having 2 armor because the 15 HP was surprisingly tanky. But the players didn't complain much about it so that's a little more up to opinion.

#

Finally, the Valk gauntlet rules-

Very fun, only critique is that if you plan on making write ups for your sitrep rules, maybe make the "Claim" action a bespoke action with its own description, would make things far less confusing. And knowing you Valk, you likely already have in your own internal documentation lol

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
# vagrant grotto Thank you for all this feedback! Here’s some follow up questions: - How did Ordn...

  1. Ordnance on ally mode felt great! I even had the resident Demolisher give up a Demo-Hammer attack to move next to the astray Snare Drone in order to get the ally benefits. Couldn’t really get it to trigger on enemies but that was okay- the Heat felt like plenty regardless.

  2. Mostly the Overshield, where the condition clear was consistently useful, but I did use the Recharge option for Lead Astray once, which was also the time it triggered. Great success!

  3. So the way I interpreted your rules, there were 3 objective points. Each one could be “claimed” once per round, and claiming one would immediately allow the players to gain 1 point towards the objective. All 3 objectives would have their “claims” reset at the start of the next round. So I think they were persistent? Also- a player could claim an objective as a quick action or protocol, but couldn’t take that action more than 1/round (eg, can’t protocol one objective and move to claim another as a quick action, can’t attempt to protocol contest an objective, fail, then quick action try again). I spent a good amount of time deliberating over this so I’m hoping I got it all down as it should be.

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
# vagrant grotto 1. Follow up: Ordnance felt great, but not enough of a trade off for condition c...
  1. Yeah it didn’t feel like enough of a trade off specifically because both ally and hostile mode would hit everyone adjacent to the destroyed drone, meaning that I could consistently get Reap off on Allies, I just had to make specific sacrifices if I wanted to make it more high priority targets- but it would often be easy for me to settle for destroying a regular FLOCK drone instead.
  2. The Demolisher 2-3 times, one grunt, and a vulture twice
#

I’ll also say the Occultist felt Tanky in a way comparable to the Vulture, but for it that felt more fair because it had to spend a lot more time to get going compared to the Vulture and had a more meaningful presence if it had a longer shelf life, vs the vulture which felt fine if it lived fast and died well

vagrant grotto
#

Okay noted then on Reap, and noted that Vultures are commonly getting the OS here too

ashen crown
#

The Magpie bonuses for the vulture felt fair because I was giving up meaningful options to get that benefit and it was only single target, which made the Reap benefits stand out a lot more as “too much”

vagrant grotto
#

If players felt the Vulture armor was fine then I’ll trust em

Part of me felt the Armor was a bit high buuuuuuut I think it’s passable

ashen crown
#

Fair enough, as mentioned that was something we didn’t necessarily see eye to eye on so keeping it at 2 is fair

ashen crown
#

Also really funny thing that happened during the playtest- the Elite Occultist took 2 stress before taking a single structure, and self destructed on top of two PCs as a death throes

haughty horizon
#

Can someone give me a quick run down on how the prisms projection resistance stuff is supposed to work? I'm pretty sure that when the actual prism is targeted via the projections space the resistance kicks in but the wordings a bit complicated so I'm not 100% sure

ashen crown
granite saddle
#

Hope that helps !

vagrant grotto
haughty horizon
#

Thanks both of you!

granite saddle
#

Glad I made sense !

muted blaze
#

@vagrant grotto not PPG but your house rules. I think reworded Osiris is a tad unclear. It doesn't state what value Osiris starts on and as per the reading the first tech attack does nothing because it starts on 1, but first gate was axed and the effects of second gate happen on 2+

vagrant grotto
#

After they hit once, it’ll increment to 2 and then they can do that gate

muted blaze
#

So gate 1 does 2 heat and nothing else?

vagrant grotto
#

Then it resets

#

Yeah currently

muted blaze
#

... Any reason why?

vagrant grotto
#

Because it’s your initial value

#

You use Duat to cash out

#

You don’t use it to ramp up

muted blaze
#

Wait

#

It also says it never ticks up

#

So it starts at 1, stays at 1 and never increases

vagrant grotto
#

If I fucked up my LCP then whoops

ashen crown
#

I do feel like giving it something niche for first gate would be nice- like instead of heat shut down reactions on the target. You'll use it very rarely but if you're gonna have it be outright weaker than standard invade then you may as well go the route of Apoc Rail and make it so it does nothing- that's also worth considering I suppose

muted blaze
#

Ok sick

vagrant grotto
#

But the docs here lay it out in explicit terms

#

I basically say “screw second gate, I’m shuffling y’all around and making you cash out rewards like Jolly Roger”

#

Because second gate is literally just fragsig

muted blaze
#

I was reading the LCp, then I read the house rules and the part explaining the die was separated from the rest so I missed it

vagrant grotto
#

So yeah, the point of !V! OSIRIS is to use other tech attacks to charge up OSIRIS’s unique tech attacks

#

(And the HOROS1 EPC nerf is to keep folks from just spamming only that Invade in response)

#

Then when you cash OSIRIS out you gotta build it back up again

muted blaze
#

I like it... Some upsides: It also nerfs iconoclast

Cons: my player is having fun with that build and I don't wanna fuck him over

vagrant grotto
#

I’m fine with hitting iconoclast but yeah I get it

#

The upside is that if they’re going iconoclast they probably have other options to fuck around with

ashen crown
#

Yeah you still charge the gates at 1 tech attack per round, now you have a spare Memetic Spark Action you can use to build up Ascendance til you activate it with a third or fourth gate OSIRIS

#

Then immediately benefit from an Ascended Spark

vagrant grotto
#

I mean tbf I guess you’d OSIRIS and Memetic Spark every round normally to tick things up rapidly

#

It’s 1/round per NHP, not merely 1/round

#

So it slows down Transcendence speed for sure. That said, if a player is just windmill slamming those two actions every turn… I’m personally fine with kneecapping it for my tables

muted blaze
#

Like I'm also fine nerfing iconoclast

#

But I don't want to nerf someone who's having fun whilst they're having fun

vagrant grotto
#

Do as you see fit for your table

#

I’d preface a check in question “how are you feeling about your build?” And listen for if they’re bored or something

#

If they feel like they have to do the OSIRIS-Memetic turn all the time and it’s exhausting to them, then yeah maybe offer this alternative

#

Otherwise I’d let them be for now unless there’s other concerns about it at the table

muted blaze
#

Yeah, it's a future concern and I'm currently on hold. But I'll deffo ask them beforehand

umbral sluice
#

@vagrant grotto Hey Valk, some recent discussion in the IGF thread leads me to ask, how do your objective rules interact with:
A) Realspace breach (can teleport objects)
B) Ace 3 on the object handler

ashen crown
#

A) The rule of “teleportation deals 1 damage to the objective per space crossed (in real world not the 1 space of movement teleport movement)” would still be in effect
B) That’d be flight so I don’t think you could do it

umbral sluice
#

well, unless i'm misreading something, you can still fly 1 space off the ground with an objective

ashen crown
#

Can you end your turn flying with an objective? I thought you couldn’t

umbral sluice
#

uhhh idk, lets see what valk says

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Okay so I got confused when it came to the restrictions

umbral sluice
ashen crown
#

I knew there was one but I thought it was the usual grapple ones not slow

ashen crown
#

Like if it were 20 spaces away, that'd be 20 damage

umbral sluice
#

okay okay

#

thank you valk!

#

and you asquared!

vagrant grotto
#

So point is moot

umbral sluice
#

oh blink anchor doesnt work on objects huh

ashen crown
#

I fear the day I run for a Sunzi

vagrant grotto
#

Looking at the IGF thread I’m afraid to comment on my Sunzi changes… lol

ashen crown
#

Genuine question- why?

umbral sluice
#

i mean, idk. i think differing opinions are cool and good actually

vagrant grotto
#

Because it’ll lead into my other long rim changes hahaha

ashen crown
#

As beloved as the Sunzi is it's also very clear to everyone that maaaybe it's a bit much

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
#

I have Thoughts™ about Long Rim’s design

#

So if I link my Sunzi changes someone will see the Zheng changes and declare themselves my sworn enemy, this I have foreseen /joke

#

Plus I’m sure there’s Sunzi enjoyers out there

ashen crown
#

I do think Long Rim is probably the most swingy 1st party supplement when it comes to player options

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Anyway, no need to stir the pot

umbral sluice
#

yeah, sorry if i started anything there

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

I don’t think so

#

I just hopped over to see how things were going, and they sure were going haha

vagrant grotto
umbral sluice
#

yeah but sometimes they're really good

#

more often than not

placid glacier
#

I at least tried bringing up the changes once for my party 😔

ashen crown
#

I feel like a near complete majority of the PNet users are able to be like "I don't personally enjoy this, therefore I will disengage" is the thing

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah, it’s fine

#

No need to discuss this further

ashen crown
#

Like personally- I have no plans to use the Valk optional rules. I still like 'em tho and don't talk about the ones I'm not a fan of

vagrant grotto
#

Back to PPG scheduling

ashen crown
#

Anyway Anchor playtesting! Just a week away! (lie)

muted blaze
#

Don't click people who I have goaded into a game ||Knight, Hatchet, Slinger, Voider, Legion and Sitrep testing just a week away||

ashen crown
#

||OOOh, you doing a Slinger+Voider playtest combat too?||

umbral sluice
#

damn it

muted blaze
#

It's kinda fucked what I'm doing

umbral sluice
#

oh no

ashen crown
#

||No yeah I'm doing the same thing||

umbral sluice
#

no why is there a solomag react im scared

ashen crown
#

||Tho the PPG NPC I'm fielding w/ them is Ghosts||

placid glacier
#

I got a one shot for new players coming up tonight and I couldn't help myself as I have substituted the Bastion from the Tom Special™ with a Knight

muted blaze
#

||Can you give some unhinged reaction to this to scare Cat?||

umbral sluice
#

i'm just a silly little girl with a silly little defender atlas

#

dont kill me al implo dd288 enjoyer

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
ashen crown
#

I just gotta go back and say I really had a lot of fun with the Occultist and Vulture in my most recent combat tbh. Like the Occultist was WAY more fun than I expected it to be on paper

vagrant grotto
#

Very very happy to hear this, thank you

ashen crown
#

0G made it especially nasty because "above/below you" was a near consistent option for positioning FLOCK Drones

#

That combat probably involved the most extensive use of 0G I've ever experienced

placid glacier
#

when I get back to my personal long rim campaign I will def have to steal that idea

placid glacier
# vagrant grotto Hell yeah let’s go

also: I may have found something incredibly funny I may have to inflict onto my regular party

comboing mighty throw knight with a solopsis swarm hive for a fastball special

ashen crown
#

0G becomes really fun when you involve drones, Knockback, and only half of the map having a floor

sand mulch
#

reading through this for the first time and, as a sunzi player, i am happy to see that there's finally an easy answer to the absurd things it can do

vagrant grotto
#

Happy to provide solutions haha

muted blaze
#

Playtest relevant for PPG and house rules:

  • ||Knight with mighty throw and punishing blow||
  • ||Hatchet with rocket bola and Ultrakill Parry||
  • Reworked Kobold, Atlas, Lancaster (May be subject to change)
#

Wanna see how it goes... Apart from the other stuff I'm testingg so it might be a kitchen sink...

#

May have overloaded myself with unique NPC types... ||But double budget sitreps kinda do that||

#

Do either of those NPC types have a ||vet trait you'd want tested?, I've upped the striders to vets but I may up something else just to reduce bodies on the board||

#

||I realised after Cat decided to go be an atlas... This may be quite funny||

SPOILER_image.png
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Cool, I'll give it a spin

#

wait...

#

Does prone break rodeo?

#

BRB I'm going to rules questions

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

I don't think it does...

vagrant grotto
#

same yeah

muted blaze
#

😩

#

The atlas has fallen over but is still holdinng on

vagrant grotto
#

prone, but still Jockeying yeah

placid glacier
sand mulch
#

i was inspired by the talk earlier in the igf thread

#

i was considering using some of these NPCs for wallflower act 2, and i know you've used a few of them already yazzy

placid glacier
#

That I have, that I have

steel apex
#

@vagrant grotto off topic but you might know and idk a better place to ping you: who was it that was doing the system for NPC faction lists in lancer that had units unlocking for factions after various milestones etc

minor crest
steel apex
#

Yeah that was it, thanks

umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
#

Yeah coco’s got the right of it, otherwise the “original” faction roster post comes from dodgepong

#

I know I got my VSAF faction roster blog post out first, technically, but it had been constructed from convos with dodgepong on the topic

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
#

Well, I'll restate my thoughts yay

#

In vanilla conditions, it seemed fine enough. The obvious counterplay is to be mindful of where dropped weapon are against where the hatchet is. There are situations where a player might get caught out by it even then, but I don't think that's an issue since they still have to fail the save.

#

As expected, when paired with an anomaly and getting to extrude knives, the ability is kinda cracked

#

But also, worst case scenario, it's a long distance prone behind a save that the hatchet can't exploit because it's too far away to meaningfully exploit. Also requires it to be a veteran anomaly.

#

So in general, I think it's well-rounded. It can maybe be a nusciance skill with hassling more PCs for saves, but requires a fair amount of actions on the hatchet's end to do so.

vagrant grotto
#

Thanks for the feedback!

static kernel
#

@vagrant grotto also re: the hatchet; does the flight from flip kick apply specifically after the weapon is retrieved? Generally with order-of-operations stuff like this the owner gets to choose, but that doesn't feel in line with the intent of the ability, right?

#

i ask because, theoretically, if the hatchet could fly to an enemy and then retrieve it, it gets a lot more latitude in how it triggers cleaving retrieval

ashen crown
#

I had a dream Valk was axing the Anchor from PPG because it was just not working and my main concern was “oh no! I gotta rework my next combat!”

#

Which I guess is the type of stress dream I have now lmao

vagrant grotto
#

The implication is that the retrieval’s gotta happen first

ashen crown
#

Hm, weird interaction I just realized with Anomaly and Horror’s Abominable trait.

If you scan an Abominable Horror with Anomaly, you’ll reveal its class and templates but nothing else about it.

I might try that exactly once.

opaque crescent
#

wouldn't it only reveal it's a horror and nothing else?

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Yeah I understand the Abomination trait is well disliked, but for a singular digit number of contexts- like you do use it that number of times per player not campaign- it can be fun

#

It is a fun trait if you use it almost never

#

Anomaly’s scan trait is more fun to use in general

#

Hence why I said I might use that combo “exactly once”

#

Specifically as an In Golden Flame Spoiler- you know the one

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
# 
Return to Sender
Trait, Reaction, 1/scene
Trigger: A character targets the Hatchet with an action with the THROWN, ARCING, SEEKING, or GRENADE tag.
Effect: The Hatchet interrupts the triggering action, changing the action’s target from itself to the triggering character, regardless of targeting restrictions or RANGE. If the action would have affected an area, the Hatchet moves the area of the action to include the triggering character and exclude itself (if possible).
#

@static kernel how does this look? NOTE: Edited slightly

#

@ashen crown for the condition clear on Reap the Chaff: Is the concern that any condition could be cleared? Would limiting to only some conditions, like Slowed or Impaired, be preferred?

#

Thinking like:

Reap the Chaff
System, Ordnance, Overshield, Shield, Quick Tech
Destroy a controlled DRONE or allied GRUNT in SENSORS not deployed this round for these effects:
• Allies adjacent to the target gain OVERSHIELD 3/5/7 and clear IMPAIRED and LOCK ON.
• Hostile characters adjacent to the target gain LOCK ON and must pass an AGILITY save or become JAMMED until the end of their next turn.
ashen crown
#

Clearing specific conditions could work, in my opinion it’s only slightly stronger than clearing no conditions

vagrant grotto
#

sounds like that might be the way forward then; I'd like it to clear at least some conditions

static kernel
vagrant grotto
#

yeah it's 1/scene as of 1.13

static kernel
#

i can update my wording for the combat i'm running this weekend and see how it shakes out if you like. it's definitely going to come up

vagrant grotto
#

please make sure you're using v1.13 when you do so haha

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Oh so it just uses the attackers stats

vagrant grotto
#

basically yeah

#

and doesn't incur limited/self heat on the Hatchet

#

basically gets rid of weird edge cases

muted blaze
#

Oh

#

Haha

#

"Hey watch this"
Kicks siege cannon round out the air
Explodes from self heat and dies

vagrant grotto
#

I've started transcribing my Prototype features to the v1.14 doc

#

already taking up 2 pages and a little bit, maybe I can constrain it or cut some things, though

ashen crown
#

Any significant Anchor or Ghost changes?

#

Asking because those are the last 2 PPG NPCs on my docket

vagrant grotto
#

not on v1.14-alpha, no

#

if you have v1.13 you're good

#

so far the only 2 changes to the NPC classes in v1.14 is Hatchet's Return to Sender becoming less finicky and Occultist's Reap the Chaff getting restricted on condition clear

ashen crown
static kernel
# vagrant grotto this is v1.13:

btw, what's the functional difference between Limited 1 and 1/Scene? I guess it gives immunity to recharging, but why opt for one over the other?

vagrant grotto
#

Vulture can restore Limited charges, but not 1/scene uses

#

If I want it to be 1/scene, period, full stop, I just say so

static kernel
#

right, my question is how do you decide that something is too powerful to be limited rather than 1/scene?

#

i would personally have made RTS limited 1, so i'm curious as to your reasoning tbh

vagrant grotto
#

I also use Limited for stuff that's deployable/grenade-like

#

for "dirty tricks" I tend to just keep it to 1/scene so folks don't get mad about it

static kernel
#

fair enough! I wouldn't think RTS is that dirty since it's reliably avoidable but ye

vagrant grotto
#

"you ruined my Siege Cannon shot!" "well at least it can only do it once!"

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
vagrant grotto
opaque crescent
#

Hello PPG, I am once again asking if people would like a(nother) playtest. I would be looking at running at <t:1764529200:F>, just gauging interest for now. Please react if you're interested joyous

granite saddle
#

You know, I am interested. Just, not available.
Good luck with recruitment !

opaque crescent
#

(I'll set up a campaign channel for this after my session)

sudden cosmos
#

My weekends are currently cooked due to my own playtesting

vagrant grotto
#

Watching a how-to-play video on MAC Attack and I'm seeing this is how they handle ranged weapons (1 inch = 1 space in Lancer parlance):

  • [S]hort: 12 inch maximum distance
  • [L]ong: 6 inch minimum distance
  • [A]rc: 12 inch minimum distance, plus an ally must be within 6 inches and line of sight of the target
YouTube
Bastionland
MAC Attack - How to Play

MAC Attack coming soon to Backerkit: https://www.backerkit.com/call_to_action/8ccdea54-24c2-45bc-aa2a-5c30e633fdc9/landing

Find out more at www.bastionland.com

▶ Play video
#

so there's a thought: a drawback for Arcing in Lancer could be "you can't attack something too close to you", or if you want the Arcing benefit it only functions at range 10+ for example