#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 12 of 1

steel apex
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It's actually not that great imo

vagrant grotto
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I guess it can immediately capitalize on Start/End of round stuff like reinforcements

steel apex
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If lancer used rolled initiative I think it would be more useful, or at least more potent

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It's kind of why I didn't bother to salvage it for the rebake tbh

twin escarp
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The nhp copilot one :)
Oh no that npc can cascade now

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Wait wrong reply

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Or at least it crops in a way that makes it look like I'm calling it broken to give a veteran an nhp that doesn't do anything

viscid ingot
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Oh yeah that one. I have a funni if a little scuffed idea for reworking that one.

twin escarp
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let me guess cause i was thinking of one as I typed that

ashen crown
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Is the answer is make a new template

twin escarp
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instead of just giving a generic nhp you pick a specific one to grant the npc

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player systems are absolutely not made for npc mechs like that but it's funny to imagine just tossing one on like that

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while making bespoke conversions for each one sounds like a lot for a single veteran trait

vagrant grotto
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Yeah no could be fun to slap a PC NHP on an NPC

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give em a Sekhmet or an Athena

twin escarp
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the way I'd see it is basically "you get an extra turn round 1 but for the rest of the encounter you're effectively locked to going last"

twin escarp
twin escarp
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until the final round

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which i guess makes it turn neutral in the long run but I like the way having a fixed activation time interfaces with how i plan my turns

viscid ingot
twin escarp
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what was your idea then

viscid ingot
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Something similar but I handmake each profile of NHP that could be assigned to the Veteran instead.

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Not really PC NHPs but NPC renditions of PC NHPs

twin escarp
twin escarp
viscid ingot
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True

twin escarp
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and I'm not actually sure what I would do different for most of them

ashen crown
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For the optionals I mean

twin escarp
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except maybe Sisyphus sounds pretty unfun

viscid ingot
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Sekhmet NHP on a Berserker NPC, truly the big brain.

twin escarp
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that's just a regular blackbeard

viscid ingot
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Exactly

twin escarp
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anomaly operative veteran with sisyphus

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it's just a pegasus

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okay it's not an nhp but now I'm imagining giving a mobile turrets engineer an annihilation nexus. that's fucked up.

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anyway back to viper's speed

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I think the worst veteran traits are the ones that just kind of do nothing at all

viscid ingot
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Probably best to continue that talk in #homebrew-design since this IS Valk's thread.

twin escarp
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viper's speed every round is at least memorable

vagrant grotto
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Yeah so let’s maybe bring this back around to how this interacts with PPG

twin escarp
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yeah okay lol

viscid ingot
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But yeah how it interacts with PPG

twin escarp
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god the firefly drone is fucked up

viscid ingot
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Does Viper's Speed the actual one like do anything special for any of the NPCs here?

vagrant grotto
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it seems like if you home brew it, the current draft of napalm firefly can abuse it

twin escarp
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if the party starts on a tiny point and you put a viper's speed napalm in range

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you can hit them with the line before they get a chance to disperse

vagrant grotto
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Compare to a Bombard

viscid ingot
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Viper's Speed Napalm is terrifying if the players have a small Deploy zone and/or start too close to each other.

mild trail
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you can do that with a bombard too

round 1 turn 1 AOE artillery is always gonna be goofy

twin escarp
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yeah i'm just spitballing lol

mild trail
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but like, round 1 turn 1 is all it is

vagrant grotto
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Napalm will potentially slow though

viscid ingot
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I'd say same threat level but the Napalm is far more threatening because Burn.

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Burn is Burn.

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Aside from that though, I don't see any of the other NPCs benefiting from Viper's Speed.

vagrant grotto
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Mesmerist maybe AOE taunting

viscid ingot
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Maybe, but at least that thing needs to setup first so it ain't that scuffed.

twin escarp
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though really in any of these cases going second really is not a huge difference

twin escarp
twin escarp
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I don't even know if anything comparable exists on player side

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oh yeah and another thing i want to say about the napalm

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i get that it comes with the territory of using max optionals

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but i was getting a lot of sequences like
use catapult -> ask for agi save on targets who were hit to slow/shred -> ask for another agi save for anyone in range of the firefly drone -> ask anyone hit by that explosion but not by the catapult for an agi save to slow/shred
and then also informing the people initially hit that they have +1 difficulty on engineering saves and can't clear heat until the end of their next turn

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ended up with turns with a ton of steps for what was ultimately barrageslop

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i could see lowering the burn profiles a bit and making the slow saveless, but that might be too strong with something like a hellfire projector

vagrant grotto
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Yeah I don’t know. I do agree that there’s a lot of dice rolls when this thing barrages

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It’s on my mind too

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I could see an argument for rolling adhesive gel into the Salamander itself even

steel apex
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oh wait, you mean the catapult

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sorry, got my fiery names mixed up

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so make the gel component a product of the cannon itself, yeah, I can see that

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Also as someone who made similar localizing changes to the bombard and cluster munitions so as not to have it proc off ravager turret etc, I very much agree with "this would be cleaner to simply not worry about how it intersects with Hellfire Projectors"

viscid ingot
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Woe be upon yeh, Smart Seeking Adhesive Gel Hellfire Projector.

Max Payne

muted blaze
velvet cairn
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Also something funny i noticed

PPG NPCs aren't caps locked.

See: Occultist/Anchor

image.png
vagrant grotto
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It was part of an effort I made on the official lancer data to decapitalize everything and let the system handling the data decide upon how to style it

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Third party isn’t beholden to that though, so there may be holdovers

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That said, if there’s third party folks who wanna decapitalize their LCPs, I know a few scripts that can do so quickly

vagrant grotto
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I think for a while I suspected Napalm and Mesmerist to be lowkey overtuned tbh

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Just having doubts about the rest of the cast now lol

muted blaze
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2 napalms tonight 👀

vagrant grotto
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I can hand you a couple theoretical tweaks to try

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First being “Adhesive Gel and Corrosive Gel modify the STC only”

muted blaze
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In ggolden flame act 1 spoilers. It's a Lancer enhanced combat breach and clear with a napalm in quadrant 2 and 3

SPOILER_image.png
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Sitrep is in low gravity, they have incindiary grenades and Long burn catalyst

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I originally had only incidiary grenades but as it's low gravity they will be avoided by a boost so I gave them a second optional

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Vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalk

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Idea

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What if Longg burn catalyst was tied to Adhesive gel?

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So if you're under the effect of adhesive gel you also suffer Long burn catalyst to prevent 2 saves on hit

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Ah I see

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Oopsy

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I see engineering savea nd think "ah yeah it needs to make an engineerigng save"

vagrant grotto
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Also, second idea:

  • firefly drone: remove burn damage, have it tick 1 heat at end of a hostile character’s turn, and when it explodes it inflicts lock on and save vs immobilized
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Have it grow in size over time still (burst 1 to start, +1 at end of round to max of 3)

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Ah so, if they run into an incindiary it doesn't slow them

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Oki doki boss

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So question

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When burnt by the STC or when hit by the STC?

vagrant grotto
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On hit

muted blaze
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This is relevant for the sake of a Ghengis

vagrant grotto
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Same diff but yeah

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Ah

muted blaze
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Wait no

vagrant grotto
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On hit yes

muted blaze
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because it clears when you lose burn

vagrant grotto
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Fuuuuuuuckin Genghis

muted blaze
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I was gonna say I'm scared Long burn catalyst is gonna be spicy

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But they consumed hardly any resources last combat so uuuh

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Skill issue

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Also 3 zealots

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:)

vagrant grotto
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Sounds good, this’ll be informative

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Eagerly awaiting feedback

muted blaze
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It's fine I said in the mission briefing "expect a higher than average amount of burn, and veterans specced into veterancy engineering for clearing burn"

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Eagerly awaiting melting my players

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Also happy to use my token >:D

vagrant grotto
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Yeah that’s a good one

muted blaze
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I think my brain is currently very helldivers coded rn because these guys to me scream those massive long range acid spitters

vagrant grotto
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It’s a good vibe

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StarCraft Roaches

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Gotta get to work but I hope everything goes well, Al!

muted blaze
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Yee

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OH shucks I hadn't read the 1.9 change

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3 heat at all tiers 💀

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THis MFer must be a prioirity target

vagrant grotto
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Mmmm well I hope there’s other priority targets to diffuse that aggression

muted blaze
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If they focus fire it honestly fair

vagrant grotto
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Yeah it’s fair, I’m just concerned about “the witch/leech effect”

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“It’s okay that it’s overtuned because players annihilate it”

muted blaze
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It has better durability than them tho

vagrant grotto
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The issue isn’t the survival, it’s the behavior warp

muted blaze
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AND it's also spawning very close to the PCs so :P

vagrant grotto
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Oh nerf it’s Eva to ⅞/9 and hp to 13/16/19

muted blaze
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Last time I ran a rebake spite it was very gnarly but I think it was very much an outlier

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I'm curious how this will fair

muted blaze
muted blaze
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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And the heat scaling on its stuff was nastier in higher tiers

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But yeah players hate being jammed in this objective-oriented game, apparently

granite saddle
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Yours are outliers (and better for it imo)

twin escarp
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I kinda like the idea of memetic magnetism refreshing on overwatch

muted blaze
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"I hate zealots"

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Quote, as a second zealot appears

sudden cosmos
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Thinking about yeeting a Kensei at an LL0 party

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Unsure if that's a good idea

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but it would be funny

vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
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They're not

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But putting a little ppg in wallflower seems like a fun idea

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And turning the ronin into kensei could be A Choice

vagrant grotto
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Interesting hm

muted blaze
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They just duated a Zealot

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Piss

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It is now an ally

vagrant grotto
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Nice

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Lemme know how it fares on the PC side of things too

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It’d be neat if it’s not busted and I could field them as an allied NPC Buddy

muted blaze
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Player feedback: Napalm were cool, but didn't scan... Their sticky flames were good but the players didn't feel their effects because they just kept missing, they hit 2 attacks, one was on a ghengis so just increased heat.

Long burn catalyst didn't become relevant because by the time it was in the danger zone it kept missing and the sitrep was basically over (as it required 3 turns of being on the field to keep enter the danger zone and attack in the danger zone). Especially when 1 full action was throwing the grenades

The grenades felt like potent tools but felt kidna naff as the players all just succeeded their saves and didn't take anything, for a full action they can just succeed and take nothing

My party evasion is: 6 (Ghengis), 8 Raleigh (the only character I hit), 12 (Goblin melee variant), 12 Amber phantom and invisible and 18 Orchis.

The orchis is saying the Napalms sound oppressive and bad but they weren't cos they kept missing so honestly I'm disregarding it. My players are saying I had low rolls but like... That's innate difficulty weapon... So I honestly think it was average

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"On average they'll target two people, so that's 10 burn and 6 heat per turn"
I then decided to turn this around and compare it to a bombard which can achieve similar numbers. This player then turned it around and said they felt fine and on par with a bombard, the heat is gnarly but they like it

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3 Zealots: When there are 2 of them on the map at once they sure do have overlapping areas which are gnarly, It's difficult to read the map as it is visual clutter. If I rolled better and kept getting the charge ability back they would have been bad. Everyone within range 5 moving is a MASSIVE action economy swing. They spend 1 quick action to move a LOT of people, whereas a Zealot can fuck over all the party positioning. This CAN fuck over the whole PC team, if the team had more long range this could fuck them over (I need to clarify what they mean by this), the party don't mind the enemies being close range. But the movement feels very ludicrous...

In the end the players don't feel bad. They feel good and it can be seen how they're strong but they weren't

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They could counter other parties but this party was fine

ashen crown
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Particularly with Impairing or Spotting in the Napalm’s case

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(For me with the Anchor I needed to field more long range enemies and position the Anchor better)

muted blaze
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I think again I wasn't playing them aggressive enough, I played it pushing ofrwards and keeping allies in range wehre it should move forwards and keep going forwards until enemies can push into the range next turn.

I personally felt it didn't have much to do when it wasn't recharged, it has low sensors so can't easily invade if enemies are far, nor can it lock on. It kinda just twiddles it's thumbs if no one is in range 5 (it could boost maybe)?

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Lock on would have been nice but honestly my action economy was so full on other characters turns everyone was doing anything unless I fucked it

ashen crown
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Alternatively pair it with a Priest lol

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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But yeah like, if the goblin Raleigh or Orchis get hit once by the STC, what’s the issue I suppose

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I appreciate all the feedback Al

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How did the Napalm feel survivability-wise? I know Heat Haze didn’t come up

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Zealot too for that matter

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I have a heat haze idea as well

muted blaze
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Uh, fine? I think, my players are top end of tier 1 so damage is quite high for the tier. They can kill anything in a round if they put their mind to it. One napalm however never got attacked

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Also very CQB vanguard party so they wouldn't have cared about soft cover

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Duat zealot... Was fine too, it was 4th gated and the bennies are amazing yet the positioning is less likely to be good for your allies

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It would be godly if it recharged it's charge but it didn't, but it did boost a revolver shot from 5 damage to 5 kinetic 1 burn which killed a 6 hp hornet

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Oh zealot too on durability... Inconclusive, not targeted to much but when focus fired it crumbled

vagrant grotto
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Got it, the case where it’s most likely to “go wrong” is when it’s getting chipped at instead

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sigh alright so @muted blaze , if I ditched the +2 speed from FanCharge and made it either Recharge 6 (again?) or Limited 1, would that be more sensible

muted blaze
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I'm uncertain, I never recharged it lol

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Like, it's best comparison I think is commanders lead the charge or mirages glitch sensors

vagrant grotto
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I think I included the +2 speed so that Demos and Pyros could get in on the fun but I’m rethinking that at the moment

muted blaze
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Glitch sensors is 2 targets in LOS, and range 15 5 tiles, compared to move +2 speed within range 5 once every 3 rounds

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Pyros are slow as shit and can hardly keep up with the +2 speed but a cataract can zoom across the map. Then they don't benefit from the over shield

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Honestly the numbers check out, I'd say don't change it and await further feedback

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My issue is the zealot felt like I didn't know what to do when it wasn't charged

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It's a support/striker but honestly to me it feels like it's just only support

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This isn't a bad thing

vagrant grotto
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Yeah you mentioned on two occasions now that it was unsure where to stand

muted blaze
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Had an idea but it's a logistical nightmare

vagrant grotto
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I think I have an idea

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It’s not something I’m fond of but maybe it’ll help

muted blaze
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To cap a cataphract running 10 tiles, allies must end in the area zealots area?

vagrant grotto
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But reducing the # of affected allies on Fan Charge and killing Recharge

muted blaze
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Ooh that could be nice

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I like that honestly

vagrant grotto
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So it’s 1/2/3 allies targeted

muted blaze
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Make it like, speed or half speed and move 2 people? Maybe?

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2/3/4?

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But then I think it'll just become the "fast as fuck zooming about the map support" :P

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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I think that's cool but it'll clash with it's identity imo

vagrant grotto
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Like surpassing it I mean

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
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Blip is the reaction, regular glitch is a qa for 2 buddies

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But you’re right on range

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Being a meaningful part of power budget I mean

muted blaze
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It also would drastically change the identity of a zealot IMO

vagrant grotto
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How so

muted blaze
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What a zealot wants to do is move forwards and get stuck in... If it isn't stuck in it can have an identity crisis as it's also a good area denial and holder of points around allies. Because armoured peeps might not want to enter the radius

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If it can do movement every round I just imagine it will end up like a mirage but it just sprints around the whole map with it's buddies

vagrant grotto
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I think that’s okay

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It’s the Vanguard Support

muted blaze
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To me it feels like it's meant to push somewhere and hold it, it has good push options but lacks hold options IMO

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Well, outside of zeal which is a protocol so hardly eats it's action economy

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If that makes sense

vagrant grotto
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Lacking hold options is the goal tbf

muted blaze
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Like... Considering the options and recharge I think more data should be required before further changes to zealots charge

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It could just be a skill issue on my behalf

vagrant grotto
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Its goal if anything is to get a buddy who can anchor up on the objective

muted blaze
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And then scare armoured foes away from it

vagrant grotto
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Plus like, what’s the situation where you actually wanna run that many NPCs at once

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Like all up on the point

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Zealot is already 1 of your 6, the artillery and controllers will appreciate the positioning but don’t really wanna stand up front

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That leaves the defender and the striker

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Unless you’re packing Grunts

muted blaze
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My elite assault got fucking deleted before it could abuse the zealot 💀

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And there was too much LOS blocking terrain to abuse an archer too

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Until they one cycled the archer

muted blaze
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I think too, I assume all of zealots abilities require LOS right? Like an ally can be in sensors but they only move from charge if they're in LOS, an ally can only have ap and knockback if the target is in LOS to the zealot, the zealot only gains over shield if ally in LOS etc

vagrant grotto
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Yes correct

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That’s how the burst area will work

muted blaze
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I think my map might have had fucked it too

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Cos there was a size 1 catwalk which consistently fucked with LOS

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😔

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Someone needed to play test these maps before they were played, they're kinda ass /j

vagrant grotto
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Eh, it happens

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If it was on top of the catwalk it’s all hunky dory

muted blaze
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Which is exposed and not in cover

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Oh yeah also the zealot kinda crumbled because it and all it's allies got smacked by a bombard reserve for 14 damage lmao

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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There were 3 so that anomaly was hardly taken into account

vagrant grotto
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The “all my allies got smashed” part is the big thing here imo

muted blaze
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It was a big effect into the sitrep but honestly didn't influence my play test data too much lol

vagrant grotto
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So here’s my thought

  • Change FanCharge to 1/2/3 allies, remove Recharge, let the zealot and allies move flat 5 spaces “freely” and get some OS
  • ditch the OS from Zeal as a result
muted blaze
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The os deffo played a nice spot, small enough it wasn't significant but not oppressive. Then again if I popped charge again...

muted blaze
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Honestly why does it scale with tier? Why not just 2 across all tiers

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2 and then self right? Enough to get a cataphract and a berserker through the line or move an assault and an archer

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Honestly, zealot felt very close to being a good spot just needs more play test data... Idk if drastic changes are wise or not because it'll mean the scales are always go wonky one way rather than another instead of stabilising out

vagrant grotto
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Zealot’s been a wonky space ever since I created it

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I want it to feel like it’s consistently doing something

muted blaze
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Mmm fair

vagrant grotto
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fuck lol the entire fuckin' Napalm kit is likely to get a rework at this point

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can't say it didn't have it coming though

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how many times can you do "this does burn... in an area!!" before it gets old

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@muted blaze I'm thinking I'm gonna remove the Danger Zone requirement from Long-Burn, and add it to Skyburner on the Ultra trait

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I like the idea of the Napalm ramping up over time but currently this ain't it

muted blaze
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So in concept I think it's a neat ability tied to danger zone

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But npcs vary wildly in heat gain, and like... They're capped at 3 heat per turn or 1d6+3 if they have limitless which varies wildly

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If it was removed from the danger zone it would be too powerful so yeah moving it to ultra trait feels good

muted blaze
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I hope it doesn't get a major overhaul at least with what I played... Yeah it could hit for shit but my players very agi pilled. I think the only glaring issue is the grenades being a full action limited 1 which do nothing on a successful save... Compared to rebake pyros auras or hives that just work without saves

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Otherwise they felt quite solid in identity

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And imo only 3 traits are "this area is on fire!!" And they're drastically different in effect

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Not in identity

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I think a DPS with a super heavy is bizarre. Because it wants to be using it's big gun as much as possible, so any time it isn't using big gun it needs to feel worth it

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And I assume it wants an identity outside of "not a bombard, it clearly just does burn and heat instead"

vagrant grotto
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Feedback    Napalm Adhesive Gel    12    Bogs down everything the Napalm does that applies Burn 
Feedback    Zealot Fanatical Charge    17    Unsure what to do when Fanatical Charge is on recharge
Balance    Napalm Heat Haze    12    Only comes up around Round 3 of survival
Balance    Napalm Incendiary Grenades    12    Okay but players just succeeded on their saves and didn't take any effect
Balance    Napalm Long-Burn Catalyst    12    Did nothing until round 3, and by then the game was over
Balance    Napalm Firefly Drone    12    too easy to just combo into more damage, boring
Balance    Napalm Salamander Thermobaric Catapult    12    Players find the heat scary
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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I think that's neat

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In effect it's a better hive drone, but it cannot move and it lasts until the end of the combat

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Honestly... It could still be start if I spell it like that??? But then is that too good?

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Zealot fanatical chargge thing, I think I could chalk down to as well "I need to push with them more" and it could easily be a hostile comp issue

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"Or move into in the first time in a round"

ashen crown
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And idk, even with just the basic actions I always felt like Zealot had plenty to do. Kinda wish Firelight Nexus did a little more but that’s about it, I still used it with the last Zealot I ran to end Swallowtail invis

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Zeal makes it prioritize positioning above all else so I tended to use any spare actions it had on Boosting or Hiding, occasionally Locking On perhaps

vagrant grotto
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Salamander Thermobaric Catapult
Superheavy Cannon, Arcing, Ordnance, 3 Heat (Self), +2/+4/+6, +1 Difficulty
[Range 15][Line 5][3 Heat + 5/7/9 Burn]
This weapon attacks by drawing its LINE in any direction from a point within its RANGE. It calculates cover and line of sight from the chosen point.

Targets who take Burn from this weapon must pass an AGILITY save or be SLOWED until they clear Burn.

HEAT HAZE    Trait
The Napalm has soft cover against characters in the DANGER ZONE.

INSULATED    Trait
The Napalm has IMMUNITY to Burn.
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Adhesive Gel is out, merged with the STC. Insulated is in

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Heat Haze now triggers off of opponents in the Danger Zone

vagrant grotto
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Fanatical Charge
System, Overshield, Shield, Quick Tech
The Zealot and up to one ally within ZEAL’s area gain OVERSHIELD 2/3/4 and may move up to 5 spaces as a reaction, ignoring difficult terrain, engagement, and reactions.
vagrant grotto
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Thinking for Firefly Drone:

  • Burst 2 area inflicts 1 Heat/round and prevents drawing line of sight outside
  • On explosion, instead of causing burn/heat, inflict Lock On + Save vs. Immobilized
viscid ingot
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I would say instead of Immobilized it is Shredded but with this the Napalm is shaping up to be this Artillery/Controller hybrid that cracks PC movement while they are burning or in danger zone.

Which is dangerous combination if left alive.

vagrant grotto
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I already have a Shredded effect on Corrosive Gel, so having it on the drone may be redundant

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I'm imagining a literal goopy firefly-like drone that explodes in glow-in-the-dark goop

viscid ingot
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Immobilized would be good then

steel apex
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Question for valk: what do you envision the Napalm in an idealized sort of "quintessential self"

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like, boiling the Napalm down into an elevator pitch, what's your goal with it aside from "burn-dealing artillery"

viscid ingot
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Yeah that helps immensely with designing abilities for them.

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Since each of the CRB NPCs at least give you an idea at what they are particularly best at.

twin escarp
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and then it's like everybody's moving in formation together

vagrant grotto
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Less spike damage, more dots and lingering effects I suppose

muted blaze
muted blaze
# vagrant grotto ``` Fanatical Charge System, Overshield, Shield, Quick Tech The Zealot and up to...

I'm personally not a fan of this... The concept of "I don't know what to do if no one is in range feedback" I gave is sounding more and more to me like a skill issue on my behalf, demolishers and pyros have the same option of they have little optionals and no one is approaching their point... I liked the concept of the zealot being a big team pushes, the concept of being a ferry to only one guy every round doesn't feel right. I prefer how it once was or as a squared suggested a full action could work quite well

vagrant grotto
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The big team push thing may be better as an optional even

muted blaze
muted blaze
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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In any case, this is all provisional still. If anyone wants to try this variant of Zealot in the meantime and report back, be my guest

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It’s basically just that change and removing the OS from Zeal

steel apex
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Like, the core of it (long range burn with potential CC) seems like a solid foundation

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I will say: given the catapult has Arcing, the text about "It calculates cover and line of sight from the chosen point" seems at least semi-redundant because it ignores LoS requirements anyway

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I think, and this is just off-the-cuff unsolicited type advice, you could probably drop that whole thing since Line 5 within Range 15 means you can probably position it such that it can get around most forms of directional cover anyway and it already ignores LoS by default

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(and STRICTLY speaking you could also drop the text about how the line is positioned since, even though the CRB never weighs in on it, that's how Range X Line Y would work anyway)

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If I had to say, the thing that it kind of makes me think of in terms of, like, "what is this looking like it wants to be in the ballpark in" is actually the Barricade

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Incendiary Grenade feels like something that ties into that, though some of the other optionals feel a bit less focused BUT that's "focused" from my own personal take on NPC design, which isn't necessarily a universal constant

muted blaze
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It's meant to be phrasing it akin to how blast works with arcing and range

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As RAW, a range 15 line 5 calculates cover FROM the origin of the character rahter than where the line starts

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Like here, the napalm, attacks furnace and moves the line right, Furnace and can opener should be in no cover and maid should be out of LOS. Wheras with default RAW and no flavour text all of them are targetable but all in hard cover

image.png
steel apex
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between the range and the vector targeting AND everything else it feels like the one case it's not avoiding at that point is soft cover

ashen crown
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What makes Blast be excepted from that and not Lines/cones?

steel apex
ashen crown
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Does the CRB mention it for blasts? I need to go back and check

steel apex
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nothing in first party lancer has Range X + Cone/Line Y until basically the MBT's cannister projector gun

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and yeah it mentions it explicitly for blasts

ashen crown
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Oh huh it does. Funky.

steel apex
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I'm sort of approaching this from the context of the earlier feedback regarding the Napalm, about how there's a lot of "overhead" going into its primary gameplan, AoE attack rolls, then AoE save rolls, then people needing to make burn checks, etc, so there's a lot of stuff going on just in regards to a straightforward barrage, so I'm wondering if simplifying the attack engagement method might also help with that rather than the GM feeling like they need to finesse the targeting line on top of it

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Seeking is kind of a brute-force tag, but it's also going on a weapon with fairly significant to-hit penalties baked in by default

muted blaze
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I don't see it as a problem, I don't think it should have seeking. I used one yesterday and it was relevant. Yes a bombard or ace can ignore most cover but it depends how efficient or where the center is placed. It gets more complicated when trying to target multiple people in an area as that's when cover will be most relevant... And a line is much more limiting than a blast. Additionally characters with defensive solutions such as house guard or combined arms... Seeking would just brute force it in a way that makes it uninteresting (which is what I think about seeking honestly)

I don't see napalm any more complicated than a rebake bombard with alternate firing modes tbh

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In fact I'd say they have the same overhead

ashen crown
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The Attack -> Save -> Burn Check does seem like a lot tho

steel apex
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yeah I don't think THAT component of it is a problem

ashen crown
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Fair- an efficient Bombard will get similar results with Earthshaker Shells

vagrant grotto
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The big overhead is really stemming from stuff like the Firefly Drone explosion that could deal burn > trigger another save vs slow, on top of the first attack that would burn and trigger a save as well

vagrant grotto
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I do include the “draw line in any direction” rules mostly out of safety; yes it makes sense that that’s how it works, but I have the page real estate and don’t wanna make a FAQ entry for it in case folks misunderstand

steel apex
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yeah that's fine, to be VERY clear this is ultimately your project and how you feel like designing/writing stuff should be the priority

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and yeah, I think the base of the Salamander + slow effect is a good one for a burn based artillery controller

vagrant grotto
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I’m gonna keep Arcing over Seeking since it’s more evocative of what the fiction is, though. Plus I have some alt rules for seeking that make it more distinct from arcing, and I’d prefer this have arcing in those use cases

steel apex
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ah right you do have those alt rules, I keep forgetting

vagrant grotto
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I’ll be real, it’s mostly because “oh, it’s lobbing shit over” and what have you

steel apex
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but yeah, I think the core of the NPC is imo in a good spot in terms of "what does this do," it's basically a less spike damage but more control oriented bombard-style artillery

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so my BROAD suggestion would be looking at leaning into the countermobility element more

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I might even suggest moving the Incendiary Grenades to a Recharge 6+ with a "only two patches can be out at a time, if you place more the old ones disappear" clause

vagrant grotto
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I have flip flopped between Limited 1 and Recharge so many times on Napalm’s optionals lol

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But yeah I get you

muted blaze
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I like limited 1 on the fire grenades

vagrant grotto
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So, I recently consolidated Anchor's Null-Grav field into one big zone, and I'm considering doing the same for the Incendiary Grenade (esp if I go the Recharge route)

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any thoughts/feelings about the Blast 1 size of the Incendiary Grenades?

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the big diff between the Nades and Null Grav is that difficult terrain will properly tax movement through the area, while zero-g's "Slowed" could potentially be circumvented by just Boost up -> walking through it -> finishing boost once outside

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That said, I have become increasingly aware of my distaste for things that place more than 1 zone on the board at once, for overhead purposes

steel apex
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I think that "place multiple zones" is something that works best if its a central component of the NPC, like a lurker's shrouds

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"make a blast 2 area of difficult terrain that can also deal burn" seems like a good consolidation, it will cover less effective area at once but it's also less stuff on the board at once

vagrant grotto
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Yeah, between this, Null-Grav, and the potential Fanatical Charge change, I’m starting to lean into a “less is more” approach here

muted blaze
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IMO a blast 2 area of difficult terrainn feels MASSIVE

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Like that can be living hell for any frame, especially a size 2+ frame to move through

vagrant grotto
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mm. Whitewash in comparison is at-will Blast 1 difficult terrain

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and Barricade has Seismic Repulsor at Burst 3 around a Size 2

muted blaze
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Ah that is true

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Is that difficult terrain?

vagrant grotto
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it is in CRB! not Kai's rebake though

muted blaze
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Who tf allowed that 💀

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IG the other comparison would be Hunger pursuit limpets too

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Them things a size 4 area

vagrant grotto
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yeah, admittedly smaller

steel apex
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yeah hunger/pursuit is a size 4 area which is extremely large

vagrant grotto
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........ you know

muted blaze
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That also slows on a save

vagrant grotto
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I think it may be time to lean in on the lines

muted blaze
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Turn the greande into a line 5 area of difficult terrain!??!?!?! /j

vagrant grotto
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unironically yes, maybe

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but the diff terrain is gonna lose potency

steel apex
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I will say, having seen similar things in homebrew before, difficult terrain on a line can be a little awkward- yeah for that reason

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difficult terrain works best when there isn't as easy a way to bypass it

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a line of terrain is a thing anyone can just jump over

vagrant grotto
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I've tried it on an old version of Long-Burn Catalyst, and it just. Yeah no

steel apex
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this is also why I think the CRB seeder's tripwires is kind of a bum deal

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and why burst 1 mines are just a better implementation in general

vagrant grotto
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I went from "line 5" to "line 5 and all adjacent spaces" and then back to "okay that was frightening, Line 5" before I finally changed Long-burn outright

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maybe a cone instead then tbh

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imagining a big ol "splortch" forward as it shatters across the ground

muted blaze
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Is the problem that there are too many blast 1 AOE ongoing effects NPCs have access to or that there is too many ongoing AOE effects NPCs have access to in general?

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I think the grenades can be forgiven because they're somewhat fire and forget. They're not tied to any turn order, initiative or vanish on life. When they exist they stay

vagrant grotto
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The issue is:

  1. Placing too small an area of Difficult Terrain
  2. Placing too many areas at once
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that's true too though

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I'm wary of a Javelin Missiles or Manifest False Idols scenario

steel apex
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I guess I would flip it around: I don't think there's a "problem" with multiple blast 1 AoEs but my question would be, what are you hoping to get out of it versus a single large area?

vagrant grotto
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faster placement, better "oomf" if it's perceived that the blast 1s don't do much

steel apex
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the one upside is multiple simultaneous area coverage in exchange for less overall effect at covering any one area UNLESS you place both AoEs in proximity in which case you've basically made one large area with extra steps

vagrant grotto
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yeah, I'm half-wondering if that "combine the zones" situation is happening since that's what happened with Anchor's optional

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and worse, if the "combine the zones" is some secret optimal strat

steel apex
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Blast 1 isn't BAD, I use a lot of Blast 1 stuff, that's razor swarms and skyhammer salvos and napalm bombs etc, but A). most of that stuff isn't limited 1/recharge 6+ and B). difficult terrain, specifically, likes having larger area to be more of an impactful effect

muted blaze
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Flexibility is nice

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It depends on map layout and sitrep tbh

vagrant grotto
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I'll leave the 'nades be for now, it's feeling like I've got a solution in search of a problem

muted blaze
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2 Grenades will be godly on your objective based control

vagrant grotto
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That's actually the thing: While yes I'm definitely making my NPCs for myself to use, I also know that I'm one helluva outlier

muted blaze
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Real

vagrant grotto
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Alright, Firefly take:

Firefly Drone
System, Drone, Limited 1, Quick Action
Firefly Drone (Size 1/2, HP 5/8/10, Evasion 10, 
E-Defense 10, Tags: Drone)

This drone can be deployed or moved to a space within SENSORS and line of sight, creating a Burst 2 area. Hostile characters at least partially within the area cannot draw line of sight outside of the area and take 1 Heat if they end their turn inside it. The drone explodes and is destroyed if it is targeted by an effect that deals any Burn; characters in its area gain LOCK ON and must pass an AGILITY save or become IMMOBILIZED.

Goal here for Firefly is to be a light control tool that can be shuffled about, but can eventually be cashed in to stick enemies in a favorable position to be shot (lock on + not moving due to immobilized)

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I don't think I need it to be an AOE burn explosion anymore

muted blaze
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So it makes total sense and from a design perspective is cool

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However, it feels not like a napalms ability

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Giving it a think

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Part of me is thinking it wouldn't have one but that's boring... Something like a hive drone... Or reverse hive drone... A flaming bouncing betty that just keeps shitting out a burning aura

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SOmething like a remote hardlight shield that is actively detrimental to go into?

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Random ideas being spat out

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Characters in the area are slowed, if targetted by burn it explodes dealing burn to the area... OR???? potentially all attacks that inflict burn have accuracy against targets in the area?

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But that's taking too much influence from the bombards drone

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I honestly see the napalm as a burn oriented, more controller focused bombard. So when I think of abilities my mind drifts towards bombard abilities

muted blaze
ashen crown
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IMO, Immobilization + Lock On seems contrary to the Napalm’s theme- which sounds weird but hear me out

muted blaze
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"Whenever a character in the area takes heat, they take +1 heat" Rnadom ass idea

ashen crown
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… you know I was thinking about it because I had a whole explanation but the reality is “Slow feels more on brand for coating people in adhesive gel and granting Lock On doesn’t feel like the Napalm’s thing because it doesn’t feel like setting people on fire is supposed to expose weaknesses”, which now that I think about it is kinda a bogus hill to die on

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It was one of those things that made sense until I put it to pen

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IMO- I liked when it dealt burn because it specifically hooked into Adhesive Gel, so that’s my take.

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But after reflecting on it that doesn’t really seem like a good reason against this draft so that’s not good criticism

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I’m gonna step off this hill

upbeat obsidian
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Campaign I said I was gonna run later is finally happening

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I’ll let you know how my usage of reflavored knights, napalm, mesmerists, go

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I was debating trying out more but I also want to have like faction setups… so idk

viscid ingot
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Considering the Napalm seems to be literally something that keeps yeeting burning tar/napalm at characters until they get bogged down and slowed to the point they are being swallowed by lava.

The STC already has the Burn and potential Slowed aspect so that is a homage to its identity.

The Firefly Drone's initial effect is good, but I'd bump it up to 2 Heat because that gain only appears when they End their Turn inside or partially inside so that can be easily managed.

For the effect upon destruction via Burn?

I say completely axe that.

Instead have the drone be a turret instead.

HP 3/4/5, ARMOR 1, HEATCAP 4, EVA 8, E-DEF 6, SIZE 1
EFFECT: As a Quick Action, the Napalm deploys the Firefly Drone Turret in a Free Space within Sensors. This drone turret has a smaller version of the Salamander Thermobaric Catapult. As a Free Action at any point of the Napalm's turn, this drone can fire at targets within Range 5, dealing 2/3/4 Burn upon hit and the Save or be Slowed.```

Also keeping the burst 2 area thing.
vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
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Its not clean but you probably get the idea I am shilling.

vagrant grotto
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I can see what you mean yeah

viscid ingot
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Instead of having it be a burna bomb, you can have it be a turret that essentially is a weaker burn but the same slowing identity of the Napalm.

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It would still have the aura of heat that makes standing near the thing feel like you are in an oven.

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This would turn the Napalm into an Artillery moonlighting as a Controller while keeping its identity I feel.

viscid ingot
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What do ya think?

upbeat obsidian
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I can’t think of why they wouldn’t but: these work fine with rebake npcs and or possibly other homebrew npcs (second one is more vague tbf but, planning on using enhanced combat npcs mostly)

muted blaze
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What if when attacked the firefly drone extends the attack by line 5 originating from itself????

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Alongside other bonuses ofc

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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That'd be neat...

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Goopy fire snail drone

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This is what the firefly drone looks like, it leaves a slime trail behind it

viscid ingot
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Lava Snail

vagrant grotto
# 
Firefly Drone (trail version)
System, Drone, Limited 1, Quick Action
Firefly Drone (Size 1/2, HP 5/8/10, Evasion 10, 
E-Defense 10, Tags: Drone)

This drone can be deployed to a space within SENSORS and line of sight, where it constantly hovers 5 spaces above the ground. As a protocol, the Napalm may move the drone up to 5 spaces in straight line; the spaces below this path are set on fire and become difficult terrain until the start of the Napalm’s turn or until extinguished. Characters that end their turn within the area or move into one for the first time in a round take 2 Heat and 2/3/4 Burn.

Set "on fire" currently uses the same language/statline as Incendiary Grenade so IDK if I'm being original enough there (only difference is it lasts until the start of the Napalm's turn instead of end of scene like 'nades)

Basically a drone that can fire-strafe, maybe it could be instantaneous, idk. I just know I'm not in a rush to trigger Saves on a protocol. Maybe ping for 2 Burn instead

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feeling a little embarrassed about all my uncertainty around Napalm lol

viscid ingot
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Its a fire trap from one of them puzzle platformer games. XD

steel apex
twin escarp
twin escarp
ashen crown
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Politely, I disagree, it already prevents LoS

viscid ingot
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Doesn't look like the Trail version has the LoS cancelling effect so it should be fine-ish

ashen crown
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Oh wait I was reading the wrong version

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Whoopsies

ashen crown
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Lacking a destruction gimmick I do worry about it’s lack of bulk and delayed effect

viscid ingot
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I think the intent with it is that you have to choose between actually spending a quick action to get rid of it, or keep that action to help in getting rid of its parent.

vagrant grotto
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Frankly more concerned at this point about whether the line actually does anything

granite saddle
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with a duration like that, that's a valid concern yeah

twin escarp
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The napalm doesn't really have a competing protocol so. I think you just put the line down to block a choke and have it go back and forth

magic rover
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A question about the Torrent, when it mentions 'must always inflict knockback', does this ignore traits such as Heavy Frame or systems that resist knockback?

granite saddle
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It's about the "knockback is optionnal" thing

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For the torrent, no it isn't

vagrant grotto
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if I wanted it to ignore Heavy Frame, I’d either say “Torrent counts as Size X for knockback” or something more specific to bypass Sunzi’s Anchor

upbeat obsidian
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torrents in a escort.... good for making the objective significantly harder?

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with knockback and or prone to slow the advance for the cart

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possibly with like, difficult terrain stuff?

vagrant grotto
static kernel
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@vagrant grotto for the kensei btw: how does the charged saber profile interact with overwatch? My understanding is:
If it sheathes on round 1, it cannot overwatch with the charged profile on that round
on round 2, on its turn, and after that, it can use the charged profile

is that correct?

granite saddle
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"during it's turn, it may attack using the charged profile if this weapon has been sheathed since the start of the Kensei's turn"

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So you're right on the "no OW on round 1", but it's also "no overwatch ever" because of the "during it's turn" bit

vagrant grotto
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Basically using OW is forfeiting your QA investment in Mass Driver Sheathe in favor of damage right the fuck now

vagrant grotto
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Me earlier this week: “hm maybe I’ll run another playtest”
Silksong comes out
Me now: “what’s a playtest, anyway see you all in a month”

muted blaze
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I love sitting and waiting an hour and a half so steam can accept my money

sudden cosmos
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By the time I'll get to silksong, those issues will be long gone

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Gotta survive my jam project first and play hollow knight second

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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We’ve lost ASquared, everyone. I suppose it shouldn’t be surprising haha

muted blaze
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Curious... I think I just realised a side effect of the zealot

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They're more vulnerable to AOEs

vagrant grotto
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This the perpetual issue with Aura effects yeah; the benefit gained from the aura has to be worth the risk of clumping up

muted blaze
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Well I realised across two missions I accidentally clumped my team up to get smacked with a fat aoe twice

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Combats*

vagrant grotto
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Daisy Cutter? Or

muted blaze
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Line 10 plasma thrower and blast 2 bombard reserve

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I honestly thought i was just stupid and did it twice by accident but then I wouldn't have positioned people like that if they didn't have to stay within blast 5 of eachother

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It's just an observation, I like it. AOEs on player sides aren't too frequent and can be easy to ignore so rewarding them is nice

vagrant grotto
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Yeah no I’m here for it

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There’s a lot of “single target” focus in Assailant builds so rewarding a Howitzer or RPG is great in my book

muted blaze
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rewards daisy cutter
Shit

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/J

vagrant grotto
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It is impossible to balance around Daisy Cutter in a vacuum

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I simply accept this and move on

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And thank RA that I’m not designing PC options

upbeat obsidian
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I played with your stuff today; (rebake npcs+ enhanced combat escort)
veteran torrents, mirages, mesmerists, napalms, supports
And 1 executioner near the end

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Mirage + veteran torrents was nasty..
Then again, I think my players misplayed a lot with it? They kinda just… shot it a lot and missed it, in a messy difficult terrain balk. idk it was odd

Torrent quite fun though, I like the flowing.. part!

Difficult terrain spam is a bit rough but it was a swamp, so it was by design

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Encounter was somewhat flawed due to my design failures

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Elite Napaln… was a lot of heat, then again my party kinda hasn’t really dealt with heat much, eh.

I haven’t really done much tech attack heat stuff in the past? Hm

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I don’t think I ever got much uh aoe lime hits, maybe 1-2

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I feel like I’m weirdly lucky with npc hit rates? It hit a lot of attacks ngl..

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Party was a Nelson

Uh there is some structural party flaws with its initial party design a couple sessions ago, but idk if that would have changed this particular mission a lot

muted blaze
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"party was a nelson"
Just the one? No wonder they struggled /j

vagrant grotto
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Also, what tier, and which version number of PPG?

ashen crown
upbeat obsidian
upbeat obsidian
upbeat obsidian
# ashen crown What’s an executioner?

Enhanced combat npc (enhanced combat is good)

Basically a controller with a focus on grappling
When they are in control of a grapple (they have bonuses to doing so) they have a aura of slow, hard cover and It has a superheavy it can use against grappled enemies, that does half their max hp (AP)

upbeat obsidian
vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
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Honestly it’s kinda weird

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They kinda… got stuck shooting a bunch of attacks at a invisible regenerating torrent (mirage yippie)

Admittedly, in hindsight they didn’t even need to because they had like ferrous lash and stuff

So, I blame people not remembering their stuff super well as well

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It was kinda wasteful of them? I feel

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Admittedly, the torrent standing on the cart did seem kinda

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Pretty hard to deal with if they didn’t have a solution to it

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So much so I decided to move it off the cart after a round or two

upbeat obsidian
# vagrant grotto Okay good on the last part at least; if they instead won but felt the PPG NPCs w...

Oh actually that is like one thing I will note: it seemed really hard to actually have any way to get the torrent off the cart? (Which it was overlapping)

Admittedly they did, (atleast theoretically, they forgot) but it’s very possible at like LL3 they don’t? Hm

Especially since like ram and stuff wouldn’t work with the difficult terrain the roil torrent added

If I had to say anything else, the napalms heat felt a bit much, but.. I’d assume mostly because my party isn’t that reactor conscience… hm the elite might have been a thing as well…

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In hindsight the players should have considered grappling or certain ..1 of them had.. or just not miss from invisible 4head

grand linden
#

Players really dug the knight and focused the two I put out at LL0 one didn’t even get to do anything as the chomo player wanted that one dead after seeing the first one able to mess with two players at once, ghost and knight don’t work super well together but I love using the ghost to save important characters

dapper goblet
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My players hated rescind from the Brigand template (this is positive feedback)

vagrant grotto
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Excellent

dapper goblet
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It was the most "what the fuck" moment ive gotten from my players in a while

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I put it on an elite hornet and he just dumped a bunch of fucked up brigand techs on them and left

vagrant grotto
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As long as it was a good “what the fuck” hahahaha

dapper goblet
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I mean, players. They get annoyed when they get crit by npcs that dont do anything on crit

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I had a good time, they swore a blood oath, they won the combat pretty smoothly on the numbers but complained they were gonna lose the whole time

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You know the gig

velvet cairn
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So a Sekhmet player is rethinking their entire build because it made them get into a fistfight with a veteran anomaly Berzerker

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Anomaly: walking environmental hazard

vagrant grotto
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Sekhmet is a risk like that yeah

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this is the price one pays for 1 extra Skirmish per turn

velvet cairn
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Yes the Sekhmet walked into lava and had fight worthy of khorne's approvap

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Unfortunately the veteran berserker popped parting gift and said bet

CASTIGATE

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Well it wasn't really a castigate, the sucker had 5 health left on second structure

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But the spirit was there, self destruct went brr

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Sitrep ended there and then

But for future reference

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Question: if an anomaly with walking environmental hazard gets destroyed

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Do any effects persist

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Or do they immediately all end

vagrant grotto
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they end immediately because they transform from Mech to Wreck

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Goliath stops being a Guardian if it dies

dapper goblet
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....goliath still supplies hard cover if it dies

vagrant grotto
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that's just a wreck

dapper goblet
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I know im just being a goblin

ashen crown
#

Ya know what I like about Anomaly? It has so much cool stuff you could mechanically get away with putting one in every combat!

You know what I dislike about Anomaly? It’s so cool that I wanna use it sparingly so the magic doesn’t disappear

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
ashen crown
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Question: including all of 1st party and PPG, which NPC class could go the longest without using a single active ability? For the purposes of keeping an Anomaly’s class type a mystery for the longest time

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I’d say Vulture if it focused on exclusively using Magpie + generic actions in order to support

vagrant grotto
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walking up slowly doing nothing

ashen crown
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Oh wait that is the right answer yeah

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The reaction could give things away but unlikely

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Rebake Demolisher will have a rougher time with it but if there’s little to no terrain around then it could go a while

vagrant grotto
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except for the part that it's moving slowly and is size 2 and doing nothing

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doing nothing is doing something

mild trail
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"hmmmmmmmmm, a size 2 approaching at a glacial 2 speed rate... yeah, no idea what that could possibly be"

twin escarp
ashen crown
twin escarp
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I do just sometimes do that

placid glacier
#

thinking about what I wanna run for Sepulcher and I just realized I could finally try a Torrent

placid glacier
#

anything in particular to test?

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
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🤔 well I do have a nexi pegasus in my party so the prism refracting armor could come into effect

upbeat obsidian
#

i could try fitting a kensei in,... maybe. (reflavored horusian kensei, take it or leave it)

placid glacier
#

I mean I did enjoy using the kensei with my HUC encounters...

upbeat obsidian
#

is the kensei defensive reaction worth using?

vagrant grotto
#

yes, it's absolutely worth using

upbeat obsidian
#

i am thinking now

vagrant grotto
#

trades damage for survivability, and when you're a Vanguard like Kensei, sometimes it's more important to live longer and contest the point

#

if it's not worth using that's a sign I need to make it worth using

upbeat obsidian
#

against range: seems good.
when you would die: yeah. use it.

if it would deny a charged sword hit? its a thing.. hm
that was was i thinking about, ish...

upbeat obsidian
#

hmm

vagrant grotto
#

right, that's what the testing is for lol

#

to determine if it's worth using or not

upbeat obsidian
#

well i also dont wanna use it wrong then go "hur dur this bad" so

vagrant grotto
#

my obviously biased answer is "use it and report back"

upbeat obsidian
#

also why im asking

#

hmm... hrmmm. In some ways being in chanrged mode is like being a demolisher

vagrant grotto
#

yes correct

#

it's a Vanguard by way of Demolisher

dapper goblet
#

yo valk if I was gonna run some Kensei, is there any particular configuration you'd like them tested in?

#

(templates, other opfor, etc)

vagrant grotto
#

Take your pick on how

dapper goblet
#

Normal testing parameters like A COWARD

vagrant grotto
#

Objective based gameplay of your choice

#

Yeah I wanna cover the bases lol

#

If it can’t function normally how can I expect it to function abnormally lol

dapper goblet
#

Not wrong haha

velvet cairn
#

But that was because I used a bombard to 'tactically' group the PCs beforehand

vagrant grotto
#

Okay nice glad it was a positive experience(?) haha

#

Unrelated: I still think I’m incredibly clever for calling the Ghost’s Heat-stopping veteran trait “Maxwell’s Demon” lol

#

The former physics major in me chuckles heartily whenever I see it lol

mild trail
#

Oh that's very funny. Great name for an antiheat trait

vagrant grotto
#

Just a little guy who stops the hot stuff from entering the cold stuff

mild trail
#

Surely the ability to sort hot stuff and cold stuff into two separate boxes will have no implications about how the laws of thermodynamics work Clueless

sudden cosmos
sudden cosmos
#

Also, realizing after I brush up my early wallflower opfors, a hybrid NPC that I made back then could make a good spot to slot in a salamander Napalm

sudden cosmos
#

Mistook the NPC for the weapon that it uses bweh

placid glacier
placid glacier
muted blaze
#

Rangge 3*

#

So it can basically pocket a sniper and reload their ggun for them

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
#

aaah ok I think I have a slightly older version where magpie doesn't say that so that's why I got confused lol

vagrant grotto
#

Vulture is all about salvaging uptime from lost action economy (read: dead mechs)

muted blaze
#

Damn

#

Imagine being called lost action economy because you fucking died

#

HMG everest: Magdumps assault
Vulture: "Yeah man, that was kinda suboptimal my guy"

vagrant grotto
#

Hey if you kill the enemy before they use their recharge 6 ability, that means I get someone else to use their recharge 6 twice

#

I don’t make the rules /joke

placid glacier
#

My planning for Sepulcher: Drown them in nanites Vultures

muted blaze
placid glacier
#

ah itch may be shitting itself rn

vagrant grotto
#

It’s also on DriveThruRPG in a pinch

placid glacier
placid glacier
#

does anyone have that "infinitely dense ball of ronin' token?

twin escarp
upbeat obsidian
#

did i talk about running mesmerists yet? i ran them in the one with the torrents and stuff

#

what did you want to know about them

vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
#

lets see..

one got one-shot in soft cover by a nelson, t1.
i brought 2 other ones that came as reinforcements iirc
it was LL3, WW, nelson, drake, deaths head

#

due to difficult terrain ball or maybe other reasons never felt like i had a good time to use the burst 2 tech attack thing

i maybe should have been more agressive with it? i wasnt sure if it was worht on 1 target, with the recharge and all

#

so they didnt really shoot it much they were wasting a bunch of fire on the torrent instead

#

torrent was invisible from a mirage so thats a thing but

#

i dont think in this case the mesmerists got much chance to do much but skirmish and tech attack, in that they didnt do much defending?

they did get shot at some, some attacks were missed. (id bet its because they just were annoying/something to shoot really?)

im not sure its all the difficult terrain ball, the party spread out (it wasnt really related to the mesmerist though, just.. ok i dont know why they did that on a escort)
that might have been a party misplay

vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
#

well like, i never felt i could hit 2+ pcs with the tech burst

vagrant grotto
#

yeah that's what I mean

upbeat obsidian
#

atleast, feasibly

#

so just send it at 1 pc?

vagrant grotto
#

might as well, the alternative is just Invade

#

it's a discount Abjure in that case

upbeat obsidian
#

maybe

upbeat obsidian
#

i dont think they were bad, really. not great, not terrible.
other then the one that got oneshot.
some of their stuff may be my lack of skill with them?

#

actually if nothing else getting one shot is sort of a concenr for them.. eh. i cant recall if he used a 1d6 bonus dmg charge or just crit

vagrant grotto
#

well, their goal is to pull attention and be "sticky"

upbeat obsidian
#

i think the one just got unlucky i thinl

velvet cairn
#

What needs testing again? Trying to think of what i could add to the forces of a sitrep that would be thematically appropriate for a kingdom

image.png
#

Mesmerist, Kensei?

#

Ah

#

Prism and Vulture

#

So, question

image.png
#

Let's say there's an Ultra
the Vulture can break something that the Ultra doesnt really care about to recharge/reload things, and then the Ultra can use Juggernaut to repair it at end of activation?

vagrant grotto
#

Ultra can repair it at the end of their own turn sure

#

they don't have access to it in the meantime though

velvet cairn
#

Also, if a sniper/loading weapon mech dies next to a Vulture

image.png
#

but the sniper rifle is already fired before the sniper died

#

Does the Vulture get a reloaded sniper rifle

or a sniper rifle with 1 shot (that still has to be reloaded)

vagrant grotto
#

but #rules-questions may have thoughts about what happens after a Lancaster repairs someone with unloaded weapons

velvet cairn
#

I want to use him as some sort of

#

battlefield Loot Goblin

#

where he's just there on the front lines in hard cover

and just taking random shit off the floor and shooting it

#

Once in a while an actual officer orders him to use magpie to actually help them

velvet cairn
vagrant grotto
#

I'll mull over my intent/wording but for now it should be fine to assume it's recharged/reloaded

placid glacier
#

a really quick and dirty Torrent I'm throwing together for my Wallflower game- but despite how simple it is I do really like this

image.png
muted blaze
#

Ball

vagrant grotto
#

finally getting back into this

I'm committing to the Fire Trail Firefly Drone, and I'm reducing the STC inflicted heat to 2

Incendiary Grenade is still 2 Blast 1 areas, but it's on thin ice. If someone ran 2 Napalms with Incendiary Grenade and gave feedback I'd appreciate it

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

I'm not done yet but it's been painfully enjoyable

#

For a minute, I was worried that it was gonna be shorter than OG HK for some reason, and I'm very glad to be wrong

#

that said, I have many game ideas I wanna write about but I feel like I left some unfinished business with PPG, so I'm cleaning up a v1.10

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
# 
Rally the Righteous
System, Recharge 6+, Quick Tech
Until the start of the Zealot’s next turn, allies affected by ZEAL are treated as one SIZE larger for GRAPPLE, RAM, and engagement. They may clear SLOWED and stand up from PRONE, then move up to 5 spaces as a reaction.

since I'm making FanCharge at-will but 1 person, I'm buffing Rally the Righteous and making it Recharge 6+

ashen crown
#

So it’s more of a duration than just an instant effect- I like it

vagrant grotto
#

it's been like that, all I did was add the Move

ashen crown
#

Coulda swore an old version was just the prone + slow clear as well as bringing allies from outside Zeal closer

vagrant grotto
#

This is v1.9

image.png
#

it's seen some ch-ch-changes

ashen crown
#

Anyway since this does not involve moving the zealot and has more niche buffs, the reaction movement is defo more warranted compared to FanCharge

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Same as how I consolidated Anchor's Null-Grav to a single Blast and how Kai consolidated 3 Javelins on Rainmaker to a single Blast 1 Skyhammer Salvo

granite saddle
#

Ok great, it's relevant.
Remeber the "lingering flames on STC line + all adjacent spaces" thingy you used to have ? How about recycling that for the grenades ? Kinda like how the HAVOKs are line grenades but on steroids.

vagrant grotto
#

that actually got brought up earlier

granite saddle
#

Make it like line 3/4 + adjacent spaces or something

vagrant grotto
#

I think at that point I'd rather just have a blast, or a cone

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

it's fine, it was weeks ago

#

but the issue with lingering flames in a line is that they're not much of a threat/difficult terrain, especially if it's on a Limited/Recharge basis

this is why I changed Firefly to make a short-lived fire trail on protocol instead

#

so I can get that fire trail dream but also give it power to easily reposition

granite saddle
#

And if you do it covers just so much

vagrant grotto
#

Cone 3 covers less area than Blast 1, and Cone 5 covers less area than Blast 2

granite saddle
#

Was mainly thinking cone 7 if you're spending a limited 1 FA on it

vagrant grotto
#

lol that'd be obscene

granite saddle
#

But in those cases yeah sure, it works

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

legit that's what I'm doing for my current "on fire" zones

#

no saves, only threats

#

if you enter or end your turn in the zone you get toasty

granite saddle
#

Hive's had it right the entire time

vagrant grotto
#

can't take the heat, get the fuck outta the kitchen

#

Alright Mesmerist is the last loose end I have at the moment. Currently between

  • Memetic Magnetism Recharges immediately if only 1 target is in the area. Codespike Grants +1 Acc to tech attacks if used as Overwatch
  • Memetic Magnetism is as v1.9. Codespike instantly recharges a Tech system on Overwatch hit
#

this replaces Codespike jamming on Overwatch

#

First option Pros:

  • Improves uptime of the base kit, as the recharge on MemeMag had been a complaint
  • Makes it more likely for the Mesmerist to get follow-up hits for Mirror Image
  • Helps allied tech attackers control the target

First option Cons:

  • Makes MemeMag a little more finicky
  • Codespike effect is Yet Another Thing To Track on Mesmerist's base kit (alongside Mirror Image and Memetic Magnetism itself)
#

Second option Pros:

  • Memetic Magnetism doesn't have a mode switch, meaning less system mastery required
  • Improves uptime for potent Mesmerist control choices over Default Invade

Second option cons:

  • Doesn't help the Mesmerist land hits
  • Concerns over interactions with other Tech Recharge systems
granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Actually that's an existing concern with Hypnotic Attraction

#

Puppet target -> Overwatch -> recharge puppet target

#

I'd probably restrict the recharge to a single Tech system

granite saddle
#

Puppet crasher, by comparison, does actual repositioning even if the target is next to you, does 2/3/4 heat and lock-on and impaired

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Here's a better question: What happens if I slap an Anomaly or Brigand recharge ability on it

#

I can probably do just Mesmerist systems yes

#

I'll just do that I guess

# 
Codespike Rapier
Main Melee, Smart, +2/+4/+6
[Threat 2][4/6/8 Energy + 2 Heat]
On Hit: If the attack was made with OVERWATCH, the Mesmerist may immediately recharge one Mesmerist QUICK TECH or FULL TECH system.
muted blaze
#

-# What if mesmerist was Lace from Skong

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

i'll scratch the qualifiers then

#

it's restricted to Mesmerist

granite saddle
#

Oh, didn't you also have something for death by glamour ?
That one's relevant to me, given my currently planned Mesmerist major NPC is such a fucking Mettaton reference

vagrant grotto
#

yeah I nerfed it to 1 heat per destroyed Mirror Image at all tiers

#

that's on v1.9 iirc

granite saddle
#

Oh right it used to scale didn't it ?

#

All good then, still have the funny trait with the name

vagrant grotto
#

I will never change the name

granite saddle
#

Wh... who needs arms mirror images with legs traits like these ?

vagrant grotto
#

Here's a question: now that Codespike is Nerfed, Should Metafold Riposte have Recharge instead of 1/scene?

granite saddle
#

Well, not recharge because then it could loop itself infinitely, but you have a point

vagrant grotto
#

Imma leave it

granite saddle
#

Maybe if you exclude Riposte from recharging Riposte, but that's a lot of words to fix something that is already fine

vagrant grotto
#

the attack could miss from Mirror Image

#

it's fine for now

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Dimensional Raid (Ultra) is much less rude now too

granite saddle
#

Especially if you choose your targets well

#

True

vagrant grotto
#

I think that's a good thing

granite saddle
#

Just "even more heat and some damage too" is good yeah

vagrant grotto
#

I anticipate that there may be some cases where "I recharged my option but then I recharged all my stuff next turn anyway" but you know what, I think that's ok

#

the point is improving consistency

#

as a threat for disrespecting its Overwatch

#

Increasing the Heat on-hit to 2 also feels correct with this version

granite saddle
#

I have no opinion on this, so go for it I guess yeah

vagrant grotto
#

Update to v1.10!

itch.io
Update to 1.10!

1.10.0 Major Mesmerist, Napalm, and Zealot revisions. Ghost changes to mirror tech action effects instead of sharing heat/conditions. Torrent’s Ultra feature gets reworked to always be Two Torrents...

granite saddle
#

Always surprised by how fast you put these out after talking about 'em

vagrant grotto
#

a lot of this work was done start of the month so like, wasn't too bad this time

placid glacier
granite saddle
#

Also, no relation to all of that :
What happens if I pwyw before you put a mandatory price on something ? Do I have to buy it again or not ? Just the difeerence if it's lower ?

vagrant grotto
#

that's what happened (roughly) when I bought DataMoth's Iridia supplement before it fully released

#

as long as I don't put a price tag on the individual file (which I do not plan to do) and instead have it for the whole project

granite saddle
#

That's perfect !
Because, y'know. I may or may not have stumbled upon some money while cleaning up.

vagrant grotto
#

I'll admit I am considering a limited amount of community copies too when I do go paid

#

but I'm trying to reach a stable state for NPCs first before pulling that trigger

#

as long as I'm making changes like I just did today, I don't feel comfy going paid (yet)

#

like as in significantly changing an NPC's interactions/play pattern

#

anyway, HMU with feedback as always

granite saddle
#

The only thing I'm gonna be hitting you with is money my guy (in 1-6 business days)

placid glacier
#

I got a question because I just got the idea for something narratively neat, but idk if it would work mechanically

#

@vagrant grotto if two anomalies have Local Climate, are they immune to each other's local climates too if they're the same?

vagrant grotto
#

I think making it immune to allies with the same hazard makes perfect sense

placid glacier
#

👍

#

I was asking because I wanted to give those twin Kensei Extreme Cold Auras lol

#

slightly related: finished that Machine Torrent for my WF game

muted blaze
#

Ball

vagrant grotto
#

Aight, short notice, but is anyone down to playtest <t:1758391209:F> or <t:1758477609:F> this weekend? Honestly did not expect to have the weekend free, nor to have pushed 1.10 today

tepid arch
# vagrant grotto I believe if you bought it you keep access to the downloads

This is correct - as long as you have paid any amount, you have permanent access, even if the price changes. (If you paid $0 for pwyw, then you do not gain ownership, you just download the files.) There's one specific exception: If you have a file that's individually priced, then it basically acts as a constant gate saying "anyone who has paid X amount gets access to this file", so if that becomes more expensive people can lose access.
(I'm basically regurgitating what's on this page, haha, so you can look at that. https://itch.io/docs/creators/pricing)

vagrant grotto
#

Thank you! Glad to have the confirmation haha

tepid arch
#

I had the same worries about how access would work when I was starting out, haha.

muted blaze
#

checks watch Yeah I'm still somehow free

muted blaze
#

Wait piss, I need a build

#

Wait I can't do that, IDK the specs of the fight yet

vagrant grotto
#

LL6

#

Uhhhhh don’t know fight type

sudden cosmos
#

If you/the party would prefer, I can fill a role. Otherwise-

placid glacier
#

both a generic machine vulture and a vet vulture with grapplescrapper

machineVultureResize.png A_DIRECTORY_CHANGE-resize.png
granite saddle
#

Though only the first time for me please

velvet cairn
vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
#

Ooh

#

any frames you want us to bring?

vagrant grotto
#

Pack like it’s for a regular mission; no meme builds

#

Right now it’s looking like today is the day

velvet cairn
#

ah, darn, i can only do sunday tho

vagrant grotto
#

Mm, no worries then

velvet cairn
#

if i have to bring anything

probably a sherman or a swallowtail

tho idk
mourning cloak sounds fun and i've never played one before

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

Litterally yesterday I was complaining about no game this week, I am so looking forward to this

#

It just shifts some plans up an hour or so, nothing unmanageable

#

Had to check something with someone first is all

vagrant grotto
#

Alright, then it sounds like I have 3 for today at least. I’ll put out a want ad in #lancer-game-recruiting in an hour or two unless I decide to just rock with 3 folks + an NPC buddy for y’all

granite saddle
#

Quick warning to you : unfortunately, the build I plan to run tonight has NuCav, sorry. (It's meant for CRB enemies, I need that to stand a chance)(Also it's mostly for rank 3 believe it or not)

vagrant grotto
#

It’s fine

#

Would be happy to see how NucCav actually plays with my OC rules

#

It’s been a while since I’ve seen one with my current iteration of house rules

granite saddle
#

Well everything works out then ! Ain't I glad I chose EAF instead of OC looping after all ?
'cause yeah, it's funky Bolt Thrower Barbie time

#

For as much as I enjoy size 2s, this will be my first with a size 3. PC side at least.

vagrant grotto
#

Carry on as you will

velvet cairn
#

I'll like to bring a Hacktail with a backpocket CPR

vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
#

for tomorrow

vagrant grotto
#

I was only gonna run one day

#

Today or tomorrow

velvet cairn
#

ah
its fine then

#

curse the work shift

vagrant grotto
#

I appreciate the interest, regardless!

velvet cairn
#

though, may I ask how long the game is expected to take?

vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
#

ah, yeah

hope the session later is productive!

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

Still keeping the build the same though, OC boost loss makes it up I imagine

muted blaze
granite saddle
#

Actually, makes me think : where we moving the discussion to before this gets any more flooded ?

vagrant grotto
#

I’ll make a thread on this server

granite saddle
#

seeing the playtest and writing this to remember :
Are you sure you added the slow on hit to the STC in the lcp ?

vagrant grotto
#

Noticed yesterday that Mesmerists just never lost all their mirror images really; part of that was a low-EDEF target rich environment, but I think starting with 2 Mirror Images may be too much. I might drop it to 1 instead

ashen crown
#

Well if they never lose the Mirror Images does that not indicate that the invis is not making them dodge attacks?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Gotcha

vagrant grotto
#

The Overwatch on-hit never came up due to the fight being pretty locked in

#

And due to effects like lock breaker

ashen crown
#

The Overwatch effect when it was Jammed always was kinda a “this won’t come up often but it will be a threat” effect anyhow

#

Who knows if that’s still the case

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah though now it’s a flat 2 heat + 4/6/8 damage on hit

#

So the threat is now Heat and sustained Tech

ashen crown
#

What’s the current Overwatch rider again?

vagrant grotto
#

Recharge 1 Mesmerist feature

#

In other news, Narcissus Override is busted with buddies overlapping control effects, so that’s getting nerfed to a 1 turn quick action

#

Playtesters enjoyed the new Firefly drone as a nuisance

#

I got a Torrent to proc the firewall once with some knockback so that felt cool

#

Scalding Greywash on Torrent seemed Fine as a quick action filler move

#

My Burn + AP flag was on full display though yesterday though, apologies to the Barb and WW

#

Only reason I made so many is to supplement the existing NPCs in core lol

#

Kensei is probably getting a speed nerf to 4

#

Thinking of modifying Allied Arcing to require LOS to an ally with LOS tbh, it’s been basically just Arcing* (with a footnote)

muted blaze
#

I don't think it's too much of a problem tbh...

#

I can think of ways where it would matter more

#

I think it's another thing where larger maps it will be more relevant, where lots of enemies being in one area is common. Like, it means some sneaky member all the way at the back or a sniper hiding away from enemies in the backline is more protected

#

Also, unrelated note I found out from that playtest

#

Pegasus is quite fun

umbral sluice
#

peggy my beloved

vagrant grotto
#

Pegasus is pretty neat! I do think it’s a cool artillery mech

granite saddle
#

the only difference is this time that wasn't intentional

granite saddle
muted blaze
#

Next playtest I need to make John cartmover

umbral sluice
#

question: are the playtests open to anyone?

muted blaze
#

Can't speak for Valk, but basically

#

Valk normally asks either people he's familiar with or puts out a looking for players form in game recruiting

vagrant grotto
#

Usually first come first serve since there’s a smaller population

umbral sluice
#

i see i see, thank you

#

on a side note, I'm trying out your Handling Objects rules (including for escorts), Allied Arcing and Heat Seeking for my current game, so I'll try get some feedback from the players as I play

vagrant grotto
#

Great! it'll be appreciated

umbral sluice
#

though one player was already a little dubious of Heat Seeking in that he thinks that it disincentivises you from exceeding heatcap and stressing the enemy on multistress things, though I suppose that would be a non issue if i decide to throw in One Reactor stress too

vagrant grotto
#

mmmm that's valid, I suppose Heat Seeking does trend that way/was built with my stress rules in mind

#

I wouldn't be against extending it to Exposed too

umbral sluice
#

yeah that was his idea too so I think I'll try that out and see if it's anything

granite saddle
#

I think for the sitrep changes we discussed enemy total amount/reinforcement density ?
Not saying you have to do anything like that for now, but keeping an eye on it during your playtests could be interesting

vagrant grotto
#

I could've dropped a Mesmerist

#

Kensei changes considering:

  • Reduce Base Speed to 4
  • Change "empty" Unsheathe to a quick action
#

Was also thinking of ways to make the Charged profile punch hard without being a raw damage smasher

#

thought that crossed my mind was "reduce charged profile damage to 8/10/12 (aka base damage +3 extra damage) but Shred until EoNT on hit", but I think that the WW and Bracers using Resistance was a valid way to blunt the Kensei

granite saddle
#

Have you considered giving charged profile some reliable too ? I can't think of much else it doesn't have already to make it better without just upping the damage.

vagrant grotto
#

hadn't yet but that makes sense? Though I already give it Accurate

#

but dropping Accurate in favor of Reliable makes sense

#

the observation that Kensei's charged attack is potent vs both Armor Tanks and Dodge Tanks was insightful; I think I'm okay with that but I need to think on it

velvet cairn
vagrant grotto
# 
“Minuano” Kinetic Saber
Heavy Melee, +2/+4/+6
Normal: [Threat 2][5/7/9 Kinetic]
Charged: AP, Reliable 3/4/5 [Threat 2][8/10/12 Kinetic]
During the Kensei’s turn, it may attack using the CHARGED profile if this weapon has been sheathed since the start of the Kensei’s turn.

This weapon becomes unsheathed after attacking.

Alright, is this anything

muted blaze
#

Looks neat but unfortunately I can't say how it feels until I see it

vagrant grotto
#

yeah figured

#

I think you're right that it shouldn't deal as much damage as a Demolisher since it does have such high flexibility for its actions and use of sheathe

#

this puts its charged skirmish above curve for a striker but not outta line vs. its peers IMO

#

Kai's Rebaked Operator deals 7/9/11 reliable 3/4/5 on +1/2/3 attack at range 12 with no questions asked (and Burn on crit)

muted blaze
#

Yeah

#

Cutting the range to threat 2 (but no benefits on OW), same reliable, similar damage but AP

#

mmmmmmmmm

#

I hope it doesn't become toothless

vagrant grotto
#

I can always consider that Shred on Hit 😛

muted blaze
#

Yeah

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Like... I vibe with it

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It's a punishment outside of "I kill you big"

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"Everyone kills you big"

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I'm curious... I was thinking about Kai's comments on the strider, it's original problems being it's multiple NPCs in a trenchcoat and I'm curious about the line to cross with it and if the Kensei is close to that line

vagrant grotto
#

Eh? I think it's flexible but not multiple NPCs in the same way as strider

vagrant grotto
# muted blaze I hope it doesn't become toothless

alright, as for toothless, I'm suggesting this change (mostly because Reliable 3/4/5 is fucking with my formatting):

“Minuano” Kinetic Saber
Heavy Melee, +2/+4/+6
Normal: [Threat 2][5/7/9 Kinetic]
Charged: Reliable 3/4/5 [Threat 2][8/10/12 Kinetic]
During the Kensei’s turn, it may attack using the CHARGED profile if this weapon has been sheathed since the start of the Kensei’s turn. If it does, targets hit are SHREDDED until the end of the scene.

This weapon becomes unsheathed after attacking.
ashen crown
granite saddle
#

Yes but forever*

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

On miss it lasted until end of next turn, on hit it lasted until you end adjacent to mesmerist

ashen crown
#

Ah, so making the miss an actual miss and the on hit effect the previous miss effect

vagrant grotto
#

turns out if you have a buddy actively preventing the target from approaching, it's pretty damn cracked

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

4/5/6 strikes me as bonkers high tbh

ashen crown
#

Also I think that’s a rare “NPC with reliable melee weapon” so that’s fun

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

yeah though I could understand that this is Not An Archer

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3/4/5 isn't nothing tbf

ashen crown
#

3/4/5 is high damage for reliable, on any character even PCs

granite saddle
ashen crown
#

Even an archer that can’t take reactions can be deadly with its reliable damage

granite saddle
ashen crown
#

Fair but there’s still Overwatch and attacks until the shred clears

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I think staying with a Reliable scaling w/ precedent until data proves it should be changed is smart enough

vagrant grotto
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Aight twist my arm I upped the reliable

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
umbral sluice
vagrant grotto
#

yes

ashen crown
granite saddle
#

yes but then no reliable

vagrant grotto
#

yes it attack normally for 0 reliable and 5/7/9 damage

ashen crown
#

… I’ve been misreading that, I thought the reliable damage was always on

#

My b

vagrant grotto
#

check the statblock above again

muted blaze
#

Orchis stays winning

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😭

umbral sluice
muted blaze
#

Yeah 😭

#

I know

sudden cosmos
#

Honestly I didn't mind the AP and burn so much as being put in giga control jail

vagrant grotto
#

I am actively gutting Narcissus as we speak

sudden cosmos
#

Though I threw hard during the opener and that caused a cascade of problems from that point onwards

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Or forgetting that I could have just told the torrent/Kensei to suck it by FA disengage and walking around

umbral sluice
#

everyone forgets disengage exists

vagrant grotto
#

tbf everyone forgets disengage yeah

sudden cosmos
#

I was more concerned about the possibility of getting my HP pool vaporized and played too conservative pensivecowboybread

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
#

yeah no like I said I'm gutting Narcissus

sudden cosmos
#

"but Isa you did a hyperactive armor fluid burst dive bomb on round 2 how is that conservative" I am prone to fits of gremlin behavior

muted blaze
#

Actually yeah, that was probs a situation actually FA disingage would be useful huh...

vagrant grotto
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Disengage is forgotten because it's really fucking rough even if it makes sense in the moment

umbral sluice
#

it's one of those "is sometimes good but just feels bad to use" things imo

vagrant grotto
#

When will Lancer add PF2E Step to its actions videogames

muted blaze
#

Skirmisher 1

vagrant grotto
#

you mean 2

muted blaze
#

Yeah

#

That

umbral sluice
#

Lancer only has 50 foot Steps unfortunately

muted blaze
#

I can also echo FA Disingage feels more punishing without the overheating elephant in the room

vagrant grotto
#

aight small impasse

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Thinking of reducing Zealot's FanCharge OS from 2/3/4 to 1/2/3, but that means that Martyrdom's OS will stick out like a sore thumb

#

do I reduce Martyrdom's OS to 1/2/3 to match and then have its Burn stick out like a sore thumb too? or do I reduce the burn to 1/2/3 to match Emberlight nexus

muted blaze
#

OS is weird

vagrant grotto
#

yeah it's apparent a little OS goes a long way

#

and a lot of OS goes even further

muted blaze
#

And it stacks with other defensive traits

#

And the only way to really deal with it is "shoot them more"

umbral sluice
#

OS goes kind of insane with armour and there's so little of it in base lancer it's hard for me to value it

#

do core book NPCs even have anything with OS?

vagrant grotto
#

Priest only, basically

muted blaze
#

Obligatory comment about there are more words in the definition of overshield than words in abilities that use overshield in the CRB

umbral sluice
#

i was stunned that literally one single system had the overshield tag in crb

muted blaze
#

1 Talent, 1 NPC and 1 system

umbral sluice
#

which riker pointed out to me in homebrew design

muted blaze
#

More things blind than use OS

#

And blind isn't defined as a condition or status

umbral sluice
#

which is so odd to me given that it's about as debilitating as jam but can't be cleared in most ways

vagrant grotto
#

when will Lancer give me the "Hacked" modular condition

muted blaze
#

But OS is very weird and I think PPG has made me realise that