#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 11 of 1

vagrant grotto
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Hm. Good question. If anything I think I’d steal from Maria’s take and make it a GMS mod

muted blaze
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Cos, im thinking of using HMG cos you want data for it. I'm thinking incentive to not take it as a cb

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Ill gladly test it as the weapon mod too

vagrant grotto
# muted blaze Cos, im thinking of using HMG cos you want data for it. I'm thinking incentive t...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ModxKO46FcsswE3ZNie_jTSewhlfD5DGZZhaRsfITp8/edit?usp=drivesdk

Google Docs
Core and More Lancer revisions!

Core and More Lancer revisions, a set of personal House rules by Maria Lopez If you like these, try the Alternative Structure and Stress Rules table! PLAYER REVISIONS General: -The Prepare action can only be used to Skirmish. GMS Thermal Rifle Main Rifle, AP [8 Range] [1d3+2 Energy] Heavy...

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Very end: 2SP weapon mod that doubles acc from lock on consumption

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Don’t have an lcp for it but I can hack something in Foundry if that’s your pick

muted blaze
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If its weapon mods the basic ass LCP editor could easily make it

vagrant grotto
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Actually, it’s my “creative night”, so it may finally be time to update my damn house rule LCP

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Add in a little Neurospike: Mirage buff, as a treat

muted blaze
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🫡

vagrant grotto
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Which is to say, the second half of that is a dilemma; the first part is just defensive

muted blaze
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Just the Autostab and OPCal?

vagrant grotto
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Just those for now

muted blaze
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Wait your homebrew doc has different autostab and opcal changes?

vagrant grotto
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Ignore those, I’ve been meaning to tear them out

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I don’t care for them

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Maria’s changes cut to the core of my issues

granite saddle
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Glad I looked at it, gives me some more ideas for my own changes.

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And by "ideas", well, let's justr say...
Stealing some
(jk I'd give credit and also don't plan on publishing anything (yet))

south cypress
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I think I'll probably run an aggressive Lancaster. MULE Harness + Puppet Systems for group overwatches

vagrant grotto
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I don’t plan on “publishing” my player side house rules per se, just maintaining them as a Frankenstein monster I can reference later

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But reading Maria’s Napoleon changes is satisfying

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CRB “Reducing damage to 1” is just a little too cute if you know what I mean

muted blaze
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So I had a dumb idea

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Reaction heavy Vlad 3 with heavy gunner 3 and the new HMG... Probs work on stuff like chip damage and reactions to immobilise + shred. Then Gorgon 3 for Scylla for more reactions for more nailgun shots

vagrant grotto
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Reminding me of why I wanted to change reactions in a house rule lol

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But go for it, that’s for another day

granite saddle
muted blaze
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I was gonna also make another like, HMG build for maybe Tortuga or Pegasus but now I find vlad scylla funny

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What was ur initial plan?

granite saddle
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A sketchy kinda plan

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Vorpal Tagetes

muted blaze
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Oops all reactions ass team?

granite saddle
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Somehow

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Moving the discussion to the other place now.

sudden cosmos
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Oh heck a playtest. I missed all this.

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Are there still seats?

sudden cosmos
granite saddle
sudden cosmos
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Somehow when I go to ping him, my autocorrect freaks out and starts suggesting text in German

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@vagrant grotto are there still slots for the test? I am free and can run something different if need be.

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I want to say I was being productive and didn't notice this, but that's a lie. I was watching anime.

granite saddle
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Same. I just have other games scheduled so I have to keep an eye out.

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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Mathfinder has a good video about the Guardian class in Pathfinder 2e. I want to share it here to show what's going through my mind when I think about creating and refining Tank NPCs (and improving Tanking options for PCs, in my personal house rules): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dtlZbQC1us

YouTube
Mathfinder
Is Battlecry's Guardian the BEST TANK in Pathfinder 2E

It is finally here! My breakdown of the Guardian, why I think it's awesome, and why I think it IS a powerful tank that earns its place. Defender enjoyers rejoice!

DISCLAIMER: I accidentally used the Jotunborn Iconic and called them Irabeth (a Dromaar Guardian) throughout the video. Somehow made that crosswire. My bad!

Magic+ discount link: h...

▶ Play video
vagrant grotto
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Lessons from today’s playtest:

  • layering zones of damage/threat is potent, especially with Burn zones and a Pyro on the field
  • Kensei is overtuned lol
muted blaze
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me

viscid ingot
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Kensei kensei (can say) you die now.

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:]

vagrant grotto
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I have several ideas for nerfs in the pipe

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But also: very funny to hit an exposed mech for 28 damage total

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(Sorry Al)

muted blaze
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When I misclicked and made it 56 damage lmao

vagrant grotto
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I was fucking terrified

muted blaze
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I'm quite curious about how much of that damage too is from the volatility of 1 stress for all on PCs too

vagrant grotto
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Tbh I think it reflected more on White Hot for Kai Rebake Pyro

muted blaze
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Tru

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But like, people get frequently exposed in all the playtests you've ran I;ve seen too :P

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Might just say somethingg about the crowd that plays the playtests too TBH

vagrant grotto
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Even before my houserules, Exposed was just a thing that happened due to Overcharge and greedy heat. It’s just how it goes

muted blaze
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It's the determinism of it tho... Honestly probs just cos I'm too used to Maria's

vagrant grotto
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That’s fair, Maria’s reduces exposed a lot

viscid ingot
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In exchange for halving damage and stuff for Alternative Structure.

steel apex
vagrant grotto
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This was on an Elite Veteran Pyro so the results may have skewed hot (pun intended)

steel apex
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Putting the Hacker trait equivalent on the Pyro was a decision I made because I felt by virtue of being ON the pyro it would temper its output somewhat (slow unit, short-ranged weapon)

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multiple activations are definitely a thing I can see multiplying its effectiveness, though I imagine it's still more bounded than the same multiple activations slamming people with 4 heat basic invades

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
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"Bias in favor of toasty guns."

Looks at Napalm NPC

A fair and valid favor.

muted blaze
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I had an idea for objectives

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This will make my wildsea lovingplayer happy

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Points -> clocks are cool but what about a TRACK

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Players win and say exceeds 5 points, enemies win at goes below -5 points. If PCs get a poinnt in say control they gain 1 point, if NPCs gain a point they lose 1 point

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I'm curious how that would go... the team that wins would basically need to do well two turns in a row... I think it can unfortunately lead to stalemates and killfests until the tipping point is met however

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But if a team takes a big hit it would allow the other team to carry the momentum

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Victory can either be calculated end of round so it can be reactive OR live so the moment you go over/under point limit the game is over...

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Food for thought...

vagrant grotto
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From the playtest server: yeah there is room for exploration on the Control variant I used

All I know is that

  1. I hate fixed sitrep durations and think that they should only be a safety net at best, never a default
  2. I haven’t tried a tug war but I suspect it’ll look a lot like regular control (NPCs start strong and then die and PCs make a comeback)
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I like “always be gaining points until you reach a target” approaches because that has a natural termination point

sudden cosmos
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Maybe I'll be able to field some napalms in my next campaign when I'm not dealing with a genghis

vagrant grotto
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If anyone plans to run a Kensei soonish, try the following patch:

  • HP 18/20/22
  • Kinetic Saber Threat 2 (both profiles)
  • Mass Driver Sheathe also Slows the Kensei while the weapon is Sheathed
  • Mach Parry Overshield reduced to 3/5/7
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I’m on vacation so I likely won’t update until next week at earliest

twin escarp
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i could've given the torrent some burn too but at that point of zeal's AP

viscid ingot
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Bad Egg's table
"Burn baby burn, buuuuurn!"

vagrant grotto
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Haven’t run Zealot again since I changed it up (though I recall feeling good about it after putting it to paper)

twin escarp
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I noticed they were different 2 days ago

viscid ingot
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Napalm is still quite literally fire and if players leave it for too long then they all get their goose cooked to well done.

twin escarp
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Mine is an ultra with Supreme reactor against a party of 5+ so I am using that whole damn reactor.

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Alternate enemy reactor rules are something I will try out later

viscid ingot
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Ultra Napalm Pilot to Players
"You lookin a bit cold there bud. I have plenty of heat for everyone." :]

twin escarp
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Go my long burn catalyst

twin escarp
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The battlemap I'm using has a long narrow walkway (like, 2 hexes wide 8 long) I'm having the zealot lead a charge through with a pyro, cataphract, torrent, and the ultra napalm trailing a bit behind to get the yummy overshield

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on the other side of the map there's a commander scout sniping at the party from across a gap and a ghost that'll latch onto it with string theory marionette for extra marker snipes and ghost flight so it can cross the gap if necessary

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first round of reinforcements is an elite prism across another gap, with the lock on change valk talked about earlier, and mobile projectors. So it puts the projector across the gap and just moves around from there, capitalizing on the lock on from the scout (and the zealot's Brand Sacrifice but honestly that's mostly there for the scout to trigger the overshield without needing to be in zeal)

viscid ingot
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Oof, if that is a long narrow walkway only with no alternative path, then that will be a literal death oven.

twin escarp
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There are side paths and the map is pretty long so the end of the narrow path is still like 10~ spaces away from the holdout objective

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The side paths require you go all the way around to reach the top or bottom though so it's mostly for reinforcements or very mobile lancers to flank (they're ll12 so 6 agi is not that uncommon)

twin escarp
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I don't want to decide how big the drop is on any of the gaps so I'm just ruling if you get pushed off you grab the ledge which counts as prone

vagrant grotto
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Thought about this after mentioning brace in GM corner but recently ive just really been enjoying asking folks “would you like to overcharge [to reroll] that?” And “would you like to brace?” As opposed to asking them despondently like I used to

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I feel like I’m offering players a devil’s bargain with Reroll Overcharge, and 1/scene Brace doesn’t feel like I’m offering a non-option/trap

velvet cairn
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Question re: Napalm optionals

image.png
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Do these count against Veteran/Ultra optionals

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or count against Class optionals

ashen crown
viscid ingot
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I believe you take those in place of Veteran/Ultra optionals should you wish it.

velvet cairn
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Ah, i'll probably need to adjust something then

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i was under the assumption that the tags were a prerequisite

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ie: you had to be a vet or an ultra to take those class optionals

ashen crown
twin escarp
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it's clearer in the pdf

ashen crown
# velvet cairn ie: you had to be a vet or an ultra to take those class optionals

One thing I’ve learned is it’s better to read the features in the PDF first before comp/con- they sometimes add important clarification (ex- Spaceborn in the Long Rim book doesn’t actually give you equipment, meaning you can’t system trauma that EVA module like other Talent Systems like the NHPs. This isn’t clear in Comp/Con)

velvet cairn
ashen crown
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Data

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Lag

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Smthn

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Minor In Golden Flame Spoilers (abt faction rosters):

||What PPG NPCs feel like Impact Dynamics or Faith of the One NPCs respectively?||

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I’m thinking Zealot and Napalm fit the latter easily, but Occultist weirdly fits both idk why (something about expend ability)

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Vulture could also maybe fit in the former

viscid ingot
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Occultist be funny.

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Occultist: "I sacrifice this Drone/Grunt and unleash an UNSPEAKABLE EVIL Size 3 Mollusk Drone."

ashen crown
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Brigand Occultist with Lead Astray and Commandeer

viscid ingot
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Damn, Occultist became Cult Leader

velvet cairn
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This is Hilarious

image.png
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I'm going to use Mordekaiser as the Mech image

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"You are going to BRAZIL!"

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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But Capacitor has “mass produced” in its lore block so yeah

muted blaze
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Mine was mostly full of CRB ones since they seemed to work well

vagrant grotto
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Rip in pieces

muted blaze
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||The other factions however I can see plenty of opportunity||

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Occultist maybe?

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This is a faction roster I made for act 2 IGF

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It was meant to be in the IGF spreadsheet but I remvoed it and decided to just keep it for personal use

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I use a couple PPG ones, ||Knight and capacitor in KTB, Mesmerist in SSC, Zealot and napalm in the cult, aaaand IDK if I use any for HA or ID???? I could probs use one for HA||

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||Could probs chuck Kensei into KTB TBH||

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Lodestone could fit in ||HA|| but honestly their defenders are quite solid in that roster IMO

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Other topic

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I also had one of my signature bad ideas but I say them anyway earlier

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But instead of thinking "That's bad" I thougght "Wait... That can actually work"

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Ok so, Object oriented control... BUT they follow payload mechanics

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There's no extraction zone... It's just that you can grab them from enemies and drag them away. Meaning instead of involountarily moving the target away you can choose to take the point from them

vagrant grotto
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Yeah that’s good kush

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Grab the briefcase and hack into it

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This sounds reasonable

muted blaze
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"Oh no, the enemy cataphract stole the point!!!" It's fine we still have 2 more of them

muted blaze
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Was looking at capacitor

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One thing struck me as odd

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It starts with 2/4/6 overshield and gains overshield when it applies that much

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And in it's base kit it starts iwth a apply 4/6/8 overshield

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The 2/4/6 feels a tad redundant unless it's purely to bounce alpha strikes because it seems to me the best thing to do off the bat is just apply Arc feedback to anyone who would like it in sensors 15 just to up your overshield. And it's not like it's a time limited thing since it lasts until OS pops

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IG IT could be saved as a contingency self heal option? But it feels weird starting with a lower amount that it can easily supercede first activation

ashen crown
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I can see Vulture and Hatchet also being ||Hellhound Mechs||

vagrant grotto
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The feedback for Ghost, Capacitor, and Mesmerist was consistently “if this does not go first, it will be nuked immediately by players who know what they do”

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So I added safety measures in each case since they’re balanced around having their defensive tools online

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The goal for Capacitor is just “aight if you’re gonna fuck it up turn 1 you gotta work 2/4/6 damage harder”

muted blaze
muted blaze
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It has tools to get to 4/6/8 first turn so why doesn't it start on that value instead 2/4/6

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Ah yeah that tracks

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So it can improve but it doesn't start at its best

ashen crown
# muted blaze ||I put capacitor in KTB cos it's from the KTB book lmao||

||I think just cause it’s in the KTB book doesn’t mean it’s a KTB mech. The KTB’s SSC favs tend to be Atlas and Mourning Cloak, one of which is from Long Rim. That, and Kobold and Prospector are also in Long Rim where… yeah tunneling into a space station cannot be good. Plus the Emperor’s Lore ties a lot more into other aspects of Lancer lore such as Hercynia or ExMat Group||

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||Think it’s just a case of “Tom and Miguel had this idea then and decided to put it in the next supplement they put out.” It’s not like Gilgamesh or Lycan are specifically Cressidium conflict mechs- similar logic applies here||

sudden cosmos
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Lycan technically is

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But yeah, not gilg

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Lycan ||started appearing as a chassis used by the rebel forces against the vestans after the launch of The Typhon||

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The others in OWS don't have explicit ties to the story though

steel apex
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It just happens to start showing up

granite saddle
ashen crown
velvet cairn
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Is it intentional that as a mass production version, the Capacitor doesn't have the same feature Emperor has, where Overshield stacks?

vagrant grotto
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Plus I don’t want NPCs to stack OS

muted blaze
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Ran game

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4 player control objective oriented, control points, with a commander zealot

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I am sad, a bombard got jammed and I forgot commander could clear it

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ANYWAY

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with 8 max points it was finished near the start of round 4, relatively quick combat

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It suffered from an average size map. The Zealot was VERY spicy on the first activation as it popped the move forwards ability and kinda twiddled it's thumbs as it's allies died before they could properly agress to the bottom right point

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It suffered from not knowing what to do with it's actions when: No one was in sensors 5 OR only a ghengis was in sensors

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Blazing fervour popped once on the Ghengis and did jack, a knockback 1 AP graviton lance shoved the ghengis off the point which was quite spicy but that's about it... The objectives being 1 capture per point was quite cool, allowed an elite cataphract to zoom around the points and cap points far off but once they were gone no one could threaten further points if no one was near (smaller map needed)

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"The Zealot was very effective and should have pushed further, because it was very good at area denial. If me (2 armour IMP (range 5 hacker)) or the ghengis were caught in it we would have been fucked"

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I misplayed, I should have pushed the zealot further

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But zeal sounded like it terrified the players (Good thing)

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"If I wasn't an armour character and I there weren't loads of other enemies I would have fought it"

They never structured it so they didn't know how weak it was

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They really really liked protocol AND quick action

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It never felt like capturing the point was an action tax. It was always a choice to remove enemies from the point or make a contested check. The smallness of the point also felt like control abilities were much better (Grapple, ram, and puppet systems)

vagrant grotto
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Thanks for the feedback, @muted blaze ! Sounds like Protocol/Quick action is winning hearts and minds haha. How many control points again, 3 or 4?

Surprised Zealot seemed to exude so much threat on its own. Zeal doesn’t really do much without allies, after all. Sounds like the Overshield on Zeal wasn’t too nasty since the players didn’t really try to smack it?

muted blaze
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4 points

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Zealot was supported by an archer, scourer and veteran barricade

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I conveniently put them into a line 10 near a ghengis

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Woops

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Then the archer got CCd to shit and lost a bunch of hits so I ran it back

vagrant grotto
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That’s the right call imo

muted blaze
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I misplayed, like honestly that flank could have fucked them two over and required someone to run in to support from the other side of the map

vagrant grotto
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Then you can bring the next wave forward with a recharged FanCharge

muted blaze
muted blaze
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Like, archer and zealot woulda been gnarly

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I'm curious if zealot will be hard to balance because it relies so so much on ally comp moreso than other supports... Random thought

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Scourer zealot would done something against a ghengis

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Honestly, I shoulda just pushed that flank further but the zealots EXISTENCE was scary to anti armour people

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Which I'm glad it's scary to them compared to scary to all of the above as it was before

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I'm running more next week, template less this time with blazing fervour. And they should be effective against more than a ghengis

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And 2 napalms >:D

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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Typo

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Hang on

vagrant grotto
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I assume it was “protocol even while contested” since Al and I discussed it after my last playtest

ashen crown
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Also, were the objectives zones or objects? And were there 3 of them?

vagrant grotto
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4 of them, small

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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I wouldn’t

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Falls under duplicate actions rules

twin escarp
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@vagrant grotto does the prism take knockback dealt to the projector

twin escarp
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Post session recap: 5+ player ultra napalm did a solid 5 structure and 3 stress almost singlehandedly

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in 2 rounds

twin escarp
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The optionals are very very fun

viscid ingot
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Napalm is goob payne

twin escarp
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out of a group of ultra napalm, zealot, pyro, torrent, cataphract, pyro felt like the highest priority with all the burn going along. All four other than the napalm went down in the first two rounds.

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My vlad player's sekhmet fucking cascaded ahahaha

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it's a Combat Drill build so if anyone makes a positioning error in the next 4 rounds they are kind of just exploding

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only things i forgot while trying to manage was

  1. a headshot trigger on a veteran scout
  2. making people make multiple saves back to back using the napalm with stuff like firefly drone popping into adhesive gel
twin escarp
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my elite prism has only been on the map for 1 round I'm really liking the lock on change i think. my party is clumped up on the objective and being able to just run in and burst them all feels a lot less fair than the setup/payoff of having an ally lock on or sending a full turn locking on first itself

granite saddle
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But yeah, it moves the prism, not the projector

muted blaze
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My player revealed they have 4 heat cap 💀

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Welp... Napalms gonna have fun

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Simple as

vagrant grotto
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Like actually though, one saving grace vs Napalm is that the catapult is Inaccurate

muted blaze
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Yeah

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They're a Raleigh with no eng or agility, just hull and systems (for the system points)

vagrant grotto
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Okay then they at least have 5 HC unless they took a HC penalty from somewhere

muted blaze
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Oh I just got Raleigh stats wrong

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On a party with an

  • agimaxxed orchis (my beloathed (affectionate))

  • System and engineering invisible amber phantom
    So those two are off the table due to their high evasion... Well amber phantom is but I'm not hitting

  • Raleigh

  • ghengis

  • imp (igf act 2 goblin variant with 5 sensors and 2 armour)

So priority targets I think are Raleigh, and imp. With ghengis second cos heat and no heat clear is still quite potent

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I've given them the no heat clear and incindiary grenade optionals. Because boost is flight they can fly over the grenades so it'll only effect involuntary movement and standard movements

vagrant grotto
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Mm yeah it’ll be best to plant the grenades on objectives (if any)

muted blaze
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It's a lancer enhanced combat breach and clear with 3 lanes

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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1

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Ll4 so upper end

vagrant grotto
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Okay, no worries there then

vagrant grotto
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I should run an LL9 game once on my “concerning” NPCs to see what’ll happen

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Vulture, Mesmerist, Napalm, Kensei, Occultist

muted blaze
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Fascinating

vagrant grotto
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Mesmerist has some unconventional scaling + potentially concerning heat scaling, Napalm has concerning heat scaling, Vulture has some weird Recharge scaling on Jumpstart, Kensei is Kensei, and Occultist has one optional that may be spicy for heat

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Really Mesmerist + Napalm are the biggest scaling concerns

dapper goblet
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Oh small note on mesmerist ive noted

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Montebanks jaunt makes them very very sticky

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Which is fine in principle, it is an optional after all, but they can gapclose on backliners while ignoring engagement and become very hard to manage

vagrant grotto
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Maybe it needs recharge then

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Thanks for the feedback!

dapper goblet
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Yeah recharge feels like the right sauce

twin escarp
vagrant grotto
twin escarp
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tier 3 :)

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my party is LL12

vagrant grotto
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Aight I look forward to your feedback

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They might blow through them anyways

twin escarp
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the napalm has structured most of the party and stressed like half of them in 2 rounds and the mesmerist is showing up start of round 4/6

vagrant grotto
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Ah. Well.

twin escarp
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I'm looking forward to the mesmerist prism combo personally

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force-triggering memetic magnetism and the ultra overwatch optional cause you can't even see the mesmerist cause of the prism :)

vagrant grotto
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Scoring 5 structure and 3 stress across 6 activations is a lil concerning I suppose

twin escarp
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and I've got a scout backed up by a ghost to apply lock on for the prism

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It's not fully the napalm's fault but it has been the majority of damage

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the point I think is kind of small so it's pretty much been able to get 6/6 or 5/6 people in 2 lines every time

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and the firefly drone has also been a big force multiplier

vagrant grotto
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I guess the question now is “would a Bombard have had similar mileage”

twin escarp
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It would be less spread out across the party but higher damage to the people it did hit

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like, the damage from catapult + firefly drone is probably less than flare drone + bombard cannon

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i got a disgusting line with that, literally 4 characters in a line with an empty space between 2 of each.

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but of course, this is burn so it'll be doing more damage over the rest of the fight even if the napalm immediately gets it's remaining 3 structure fed to my cascading sekhmet vlad

vagrant grotto
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Mm cascading Sekhmet is an outlier here too

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I can see visions of the negative reviews coming in though lol

twin escarp
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worst comes to worst it can shut down and reboot, but the party right now is talking about ways to like, push the napalm towards it and get away from it themselves

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but I think I'll have the prism fascinate it because the napalm (and the taraxacum currently engaging it) are in the other direction

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and i like throwing wrenches into my friends' gears

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also i've been running blinded and fascinated as conditions that can be removed because they feel kind of uninteractive otherwise

vagrant grotto
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Noted

twin escarp
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There are 3 anomalies on screen (soon to be 4) and my party has not had time to scan a single one

twin escarp
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The anomaly prism with sympathetic vulnerabilities has also been putting in work

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I was a bit skeptical of how worth it the aoe would be compared to halving the damage but it's been hitting like 4 people for 5 damage

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Luckily it's a holdout so even if my party gets overwhelmed they probably don't tpk by round 6 and I don't mind if they lose the objective cause this is the last mission of the campaign and the enemies are both somewhat sympathetic and not aiming to kill pilots

steel apex
# vagrant grotto The goal for Capacitor is just “aight if you’re gonna fuck it up turn 1 you gott...

I have a very weird and maybe dumb/pointless suggestion here, as someone who has thought a lot about NPCs with multiple numerical values to juggle and how paring those down can be helpful to streamline overhead:

Currently, the Capacitor has 8 HP at all tiers and gains effective HP scaling by virtue of Reciprocity, which gives it 2/4/6 OS at combat start, for an effective overall starting HP of 10/12/14, which is fairly conventional scaling.

However, the Capacitor features three different OS values throughout its statblocks, 4/6/8, 2/4/6, and 2/3/4. Given that Reciprocity's starting OS exists as an anti alpha-strike tool and never really comes up again, I'd like to make a suggestion that you could adjust the Capacitor's baseline HP and Reciprocity's starting OS to give the same effective HP per tier while consolidating the number of distinct OS values in the NPC's kit.

That is to say, setting the Capacitor's HP to 6 and then setting Reciprocity's OS to 4/6/8 gives you the same effective HP as base HP of 8 and 2/4/6, and it brings Reciprocity in line with Arc Feedback and Quickening Bolt.

Potential issues I see with this are:
1). The one Spec Ops template optional I can never remember the name of which removes OS becomes more potent against a Capacitor with 6 base HP instead of 8
2). This does influence Cyclic Discharge, both by making the Capacitor more vulnerable without its OS and also giving it more potential damage out of the gate

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This might have come up and been addressed before, so apologies if so

twin escarp
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ngl i saw the weapon and starting overshield that refreshes on capacitor and went "oh this is enemy Emperor"

viscid ingot
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Pretty much Capacitor is just "NPC Emperor" yeah.

vagrant grotto
# steel apex I have a very weird and maybe dumb/pointless suggestion here, as someone who has...

I do appreciate this, as I’m slowly getting better about having too many number profiles lol. Not worried about the spec ops/horror thing at least (and if some vague player side feature eats Overshield in the future, well, good for them)

I could see myself splitting the difference too though, and making its base HP 8/9/10 and make Reciprocity the 2/3/4 scaling of the gun instead. I kinda like this a little more for the reason I mentioned of implicitly encouraging use of Arc Feedback

I’ll consider this aspect on a future version for sure, thank you!

velvet cairn
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Is it intended for anomaly's Extrude: Knives to be resistable/reducible?

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If it's attempting to give an NPC take on Ushabti Omnigun

vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
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Because currently it's only ap and +9999 to hit

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Ah.

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It would be so funny to put PARACAUSAL Weapon on it then

steel apex
twin escarp
velvet cairn
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Metafold Hanger is excellent for giving that Mook Maker feel

image.png
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But in hindsight i should have found a way to make the Ultra Bombard move faster

vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
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The battle progressed to the second map

image.png
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where the opfor overran the first position

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but it didnt even reach halfway into the second map, where the point of death was

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again, because the SHIP was too damn slow even with 3 activations and moving forwards each time.

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Memento Culpa was nice to have

image.png
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but I think it was another disconnect between the platform I was putting it on vs what i "wanted" the ultra to do

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where i wanted the boss to be an advancing tide of doom the players would have to chip down slowly and not directly engage or be drowned under firepower,

in practice it just meant the players just threw themselves into the bombards path and facerushed it anyway

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One of the other more esoteric anomaly optionals would have been better but i'm not sure how to explain Mind Freak/Esoteric Vendetta/Memory Leak narratively

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I had a player come up to me after the game and asked to look at some of the other optionals, and they asked:

"How exactly does Memory Leak work on pilots when pilots are biological and thus immune to hacking. Also, what happens if I was in a Minotaur?"

vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
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That would be pretty funny tbh

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Minotaur gets to say "No" to so many shennanigans

ashen crown
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Minotaur really is kinda a minor Anomaly counter

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Nice

viscid ingot
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Says no to that trickery

vagrant grotto
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@granite saddle

Attacks targeting characters, objects, or spaces within Burst 3 of the Prism lose the benefit of SEEKING. Hostile characters in the same area that attack one of the Prism’s allies gain LOCK ON.```
Revision of that Lock On thing on Refracting Armor from a while ago
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before it was "lock on if you end turn in the area"

twin escarp
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I have already deployed my prism with the change but nobody allied or enemy has been in burst 3 of it so i can just quietly edit it before the continuation session in 2 days

granite saddle
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And also gives the shotgun more of a reason to be here, I've always found it was just kinda there before.
But hey, the Prism's like the one thing that can use a shotgun as artillery, so.

granite saddle
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And now it helps stop people just. moving out of the range before attacking.

vagrant grotto
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I figured out a solution for the "Ram Problem" on Mass Driver Sheathe: Reduce Push/Pull/Knockback by 1 space, to a minimum of 1 space thinkaboutit

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legit I think that's something I might put on a revised version of Stable Structure

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mm actually I might change Mass Driver Sheathe to "and it reduces any push, pull, or knockback from hostile sources by half" instead

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Minimum remains 1 that way, and it isn't an outright "nope" to forced movement

vagrant grotto
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Feeling good about a lot of these refinements

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I went after most of the scaling heat effects and flattened them out; Mesmerist saw some nerfs to Codespike and Death by Glamour as a result. Also flattened Memetic Magnetism to a Burst 2 area at all tiers, but left the scaling heat since it’s similar to Abjure as the sole negative effect on that action

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
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I think it'll work out in the end

granite saddle
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it always does so yeah of course

vagrant grotto
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Update to 1.9.0!

itch.io
Update to 1.9.0!

1.9.0 Nerfed Kensei after an initial playtest. Flattened many instances of tier-scaling Heat. Adjust some numbers in various locations to reduce the amount of “numbers to remember” for the GM (suc...

granite saddle
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oh shit nice

vagrant grotto
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Current list of "needs more info" items on the bug tracker:

138, Balance, Veteran Thunderfall, 21, Long time to activate, Triggering the effect sooner , , TheWaterDragonfr, Needs Info, 

179, Balance, Torrent Stats, 14, Dies quickly, , Occurred at T1,  LL4, TheJabberw0ck, Needs Info, Surprised to hear this given that Torrent is pretty stacked compared to Squads,  Ronins,  etc. More testing required. 

184, Feedback, Zealot Feedback, 16, Zealot feels much more tanky,  for the worse, Artillery-level survivability,  but strong buffs, Felt fine with 1 structure but not with 3, ASquared, Needs Info, Would rather dial back the buffs than survivability. But maybe I reduce some of the OS gain? Unsure. Keep testing.

188, Feedback, Vulture Gameplay, 15, After 2 rounds,  nothing to do, , , Rachel, Needs Info, Feels like there's something missing but I think I need to test Vulture more and check its 3-round rotation

210, Balance, Vulture Stats, 16, Overshield + Armor is a potent combination, Either limit Overshield to allies only or reduce Armor?, , Valk, Needs Info, I wanted 2 armor to make it a "bulkier frontline support" and differentiate it from the Support,  but if it doesn't play nice with Overshield then the cleanest solution is to reduce the Armor by 1.

220, Balance, Kensei “Minuano” Kinetic Saber, 9, As much damage as a Demolisher hammer with better accuracy, , Dialing back to Assassin tier damage may be reasonable? But players did decide to just face tank it, Valk, Needs Info,
dapper goblet
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Oh im revising my earlier torrent feedback BTW. I used some normal torrents in an earlier combat (very torrent focused these days I guess) and they were fuckin menaces

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Guess they got dice wrecked that first time, maybe operator error as well

vagrant grotto
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The items I'm currently "pondering" are

  • should I add overcharge reroll bonus houserule for forcing saves
  • Can I make something more interesting than Arc Feedback currently is
  • Can I make Jury-rigged into something with less overhead
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Other stuff I've either said "eh it's fine" or made a change I deemed "good enough"

dapper goblet
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Will have some notes on Split the Seas this week I suspect.

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
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I've been using a ghost effectively stapled to a scout. It's a lot more interesting than just having an elite scout I think :)

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I'll be deploying another ghost later though I don't have any specific partner in mind for it

vagrant grotto
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Another item on my “ponder” list for me is honestly “What if I change Ghost’s Quantum Bond to instead only duplicate Tech Action Effects”

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It’s a thought

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Won’t land until v1.10 at earliest though

twin escarp
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Would that include the self-heat from the protocol to transfer phase shift?

vagrant grotto
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I’d likely have to carve out an exception for it yes

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Or like, Self Heat and Tech Effects

twin escarp
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I like there being a specific exception cause it makes it play nicer with mechs that heat themselves

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Through their weapons or overcharging and such

ashen crown
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Yeah as is using a Ghost on a Pyro or Scourer is kinda impossible

vagrant grotto
# 
Quantum Bond (The Tech-sharing version)
System, Quick Action
The Ghost bonds with one tangible adjacent allied character, becoming INTANGIBLE and sharing one of the target’s spaces. As a protocol, the bonded target may inflict 1 Heat upon themselves and the Ghost to gain the Ghost’s PHASE SHIFT feature until the end of their turn. However, if either bonded character is affected by a tech action, the other character suffers the same effects.

While bonded, the Ghost moves with the bonded target’s voluntary movement. The bond ends if the Ghost uses this system again, no longer shares a space with the bonded target, or is STUNNED, JAMMED, overheated, or destroyed.
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Things this changes:

  • Self Heat on the bonded target is less aggressive/frustrating for the Ghost
  • Conditions and Heat not caused by Tech Actions won't reach the Ghost (Notable: SCORPION, StunCrown, Burst Launcher)
  • Scan can now reach the Ghost
  • Technically, Bolster can now self-affect the Ghost
  • Paradox State and String Theory Marionette now self-affect the Ghost (!!!)
  • Allied tech effects can also affect the Ghost
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I may change it to "hostile tech action" to avoid String Theory Marionette infinite loops

ashen crown
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I would personally consider reducing Ghost Heat cap in this case

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Not by a lot but by like. 1

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Wait I’m rereading ghost

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Nevermind

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Ignore me

vagrant grotto
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Ghost's HC is comparatively small already yeah

ashen crown
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I forgot most of it’s abilities gave it 1 heat + Quantum Bond has the exception for giving 1 Heat to the Ghost written in

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I do like how this gets around the aggressiveness of Self-Heat, but getting around creative ways to apply heat such as Scorpion does hurt

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And while the shennanigans of “ghost tech actions affecting the ghost” sounds fun silly on paper I do worry it would be weird and kinda BS to run in practice. As like. Just a general concern- for any NPC, regardless of if it’s the Ghost or not, that sounds like a strat that would be called BS by the table

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Scan reaching the Ghost as well as Allied Techs is nice tho

vagrant grotto
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The list above was my stream of consciousness realizing my folly

granite saddle
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Type shit

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Anyways, does this mean that the bonded target no longer takes the 1 heat from Paradox state ?

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Kinda sad if true, I think that was a fun way to spread out the cost of this extremely potent defensive option

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
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If that fits on the page yeah, that sounds like a good trade-off

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Kinda like NOAH in a way

vagrant grotto
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It fits!

granite saddle
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Well yeah then, I'd say try it out and see how it fares

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Hey wait

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Puppet systems on a bonded pair. What the fuck happens then. Same for ophidian trek, beckon, etc

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Like, just heat and conditions is good, but the entire effect means bullshit is bound to happen

ashen crown
granite saddle
ashen crown
granite saddle
vagrant grotto
granite saddle
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Yeesh

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Get them doubles, invade-man

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As long as you're fine with that, my job here is done

vagrant grotto
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The beckon and ophidian trek will actually be less effective since it won’t break adjacency in most cases

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Unless effects can be sequential…

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In which case it’s pretty much identical to before lol

twin escarp
viscid ingot
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Extrude Gun
Effect: This is not a gun.

Extrude Knife
Effect: This is not a knife.

When will we get this anomalous Prototype huh?
Extrude Mech
Trait: This is not a Mech.

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
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Fair enough

velvet cairn
# 
NAPALM ELITE VETERAN Tempered, Tier 2 Mech
[ STATS ]
  H: 2 | A: 0 | S: -2 | E: 4
  STRUCT: 3/3 | ARMOR: 2 | HP: 17/17
  STRESS: 3/3 | HEATCAP: 0/14 | SPD: 3
  SAVE: 15 | EVADE: 9 | EDEF: 6
  SENS: 15 | SIZE: 2 | ACT: 2
[ FEATURES ]
  Salamander Thermobaric Catapult (II), Adhesive Gel (II),
  Heat Haze (II), Corrosive Gel (II),
  Long-Burn Catalyst (II), Reactor Accelerant (Veteran) (II),
  REINFORCED (II), READY AND WAITING (II),
  CAREER SOLDIER (II), SPECIALIST KIT (II),
  REINFORCED (II), VETERANCY (II),
  VETERAN TRAITS (II), INSULATED (II),
  LIMITLESS (II), Tempered Reactor (II)

Trying to build a leader type enemy for a next encounter

Not sure what others I can put on this to spice things up.

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Tryng to make it feel like a

Upgraded player Ghengis in terms of being fought against

vagrant grotto
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Looks strong as is!

velvet cairn
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but the only ones that seem fitting that are left over are commander/mercenary

vagrant grotto
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Like right now it has all the STC Passives

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It’s gonna hit like a truck

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I think it’ll be good to think of its comrades at this point

velvet cairn
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its a "Foliage extermination" encounter

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Pyro/Witch

Hornets

Spite
Berserker (With the heat mod)

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Also a Kensei with Mortal Draw (even if it isnt an ultra) called Lawnmower

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The players get a single ally for this mission: a Maximum Threat T1 Freezer

viscid ingot
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Make it a Horror or Exotic :]

velvet cairn
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NGL

Ultra torrent feels weird

static kernel
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gonna be testing a veteran kensei in a few weeks - ngl, not sure that the use case for pommel launcher really compels me as it currently stands, but will report back

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it costs 2 QAs plus heat plus self-slow/reduced movement, and the kensei doesn't strike me as a class that wants to push enemies away

vagrant grotto
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So if the Kensei needs somebody off the point NOW, it can do so with Pommel Launch. If it can’t quite reach someone on its next turn, it could also resort to Pommel Launch

static kernel
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although it does seem like you could either build it as a diver or a keepaway unit, but that's very much how the sentinel works too

twin escarp
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Okay encounter over

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My party won by the skin of their teeth

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one mech down

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one of my players kind of felt like she was just stabilizing every turn

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the extrude knife ultra felt kind of absurd

twin escarp
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We were all really tired out by the end, 11 enemy classes with 2 of them being ultras was a Lot and I'll probably aim a little lower than that in the future but it still went okay

vagrant grotto
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feel free to hit me with the final Ultra statblock again and I'll take a look if there's something reasonable I can do (or if that's just the way the cookie crumbles)

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2 being ultras is probably a lot with that many enemies but I'm glad it overall went okay

steel apex
viscid ingot
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I have a strange feeling it may be Tier 3.

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Lowkey just spitballing tho but I have a gut feeling

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Could just be what I ate for lunch tho

twin escarp
steel apex
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yeah, my off-the-cuff thought is that the extrude knife scaling damage-wise by tier is something that's going to intersect with extra activations/overcharge stuff in multiplicative fashion

viscid ingot
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Yep

steel apex
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so a three-activation ultra, let's say, is basically going to be able to deal the equivalent of 9 AP damage automatically

viscid ingot
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Extrude Knife is pretty spoopy when we take into account it is scaling damage that auto hits and ignores everything.

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Like, this is a weapon like Extrude Gun where you basically just deactivate your brain because it is so simple in its application.

twin escarp
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9+3d6 ap damage

viscid ingot
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Ouch

steel apex
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I actually should ask, what is the damage code icon on the knife meant to be?

viscid ingot
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Oof

velvet cairn
steel apex
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it might be some special thing I'm unaware of

twin escarp
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also it had supreme melee

vagrant grotto
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It’s AP 1/2/3 “variable” like Ghast Nexus

steel apex
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ahhhhhhh I see okay

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but yeah it doesn't ignore resistance, BUT it does hook into everything the ushabti doesn't

viscid ingot
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Yep

steel apex
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it's still a melee weapon, it still counts for bonus damage, etc

vagrant grotto
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Yeah, this is the reason I was thinking about flipping the +9999 to -9999

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Avoid auto crits, just let the reliable do the work

viscid ingot
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Alternatively you can make it a System and state the effect treats it like a weapon?

steel apex
vagrant grotto
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I was honestly trying to make the knife as close to Ushabti without using any special qualifiers or wordings (outside of the effect text)

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Weird design goal maybe, probably flawed, but eh it fit on the page

twin escarp
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i like the -9999 idea

vagrant grotto
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Part of it is aiming for an “oh shit” factor of seeing unexpected values

viscid ingot
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I mean, you could just click the damage profile and just have it be 1 damage unreducable.

viscid ingot
steel apex
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I might also suggest off the cuff that maybe just a flat 2 damage might hem things in a bit accounting for multiple actions, IF that's determined to be a thing that you're concerned with

viscid ingot
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This is not meant to be a natural weapon.

steel apex
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I think flat 1 without the opportunity for a CP spend to unshackle for 3 might not be worthwhile

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1 damage on a normal NPC is not gonna be noteworthy

vagrant grotto
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Yeah, may be good to flatten it that way

steel apex
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2 damage feels impactful enough as a "ping"

vagrant grotto
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Off to the bug tracker! Lol

steel apex
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and then on a multi-activation unit it's only going to scale by 2x whatever

twin escarp
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the ultra it was on was an Ultra Anomaly Mesmerist Veteran (Extrude knife, hypnotic attraction, death by glamour, Narcissus override, evasive, supreme melee, dimensional raid, Limitless, acrobat, headshot) + biomechanical (no heat cap, but works with tech actions)

viscid ingot
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Ow that NPC hurts.

steel apex
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I do think that flipping the to-hit around to prevent critseeking seems like a good idea

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if the goal is "cram an ushabti-alike into a statblock sans any qualifiers," I think that might be the shortest path to making it so you don't have to worry about shit like deadly etc

twin escarp
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the first ultra, the napalm, also did kind of an absurd about of burn with the catapult and firefly drone

steel apex
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this DOES, notably, make the orchis immune to the knife

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idk if that's gonna be a problem for you

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
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Yeah but Napalm is an Artillery focused on Burn so yeah they do insane damage by default.

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It is basically Pyro on steroids.

twin escarp
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yeah it was forcing a ton of stabilizes just to clear the burn to avoid getting structured by like 18 burn stacked

vagrant grotto
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The major benefit of the firefly drone (as a damage tool) is a Blast area using the same damage profile as the STC

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Which tbf is nothing to scoff at

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Though it has a delay at least (unless you’re using CRB Limitless… or using a multi activation)

viscid ingot
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Both weapon and drone are nasty damage dealing weapons, especially if RNGesus has decided your ass is for the retirement home in the sky and make you fail all your Engi checks.

vagrant grotto
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Mmmm. I may reduce the drone radius to burst 1

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Burst 2 sounds reasonable until you remember that it’s 14 more spaces covered than line 5

twin escarp
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also means it covers the entire line 5 if you put it in the middle

vagrant grotto
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Yeah no, don’t like that

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
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one of my players suggests maybe giving it a primer timer, and making the drone itself tankier so it's like a "get the hell out of the way" type deal

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though this perspective may be tinted by the fact that the ultra was often taking two turns in a row

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so there wasn't that much interactivity with the firefly drone

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or otherwise it'd pop it with a hellfire projector up close

vagrant grotto
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I’ll think about that yeah — oh. Yeah that’ll warp results

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I’ll revisit the drone…. Oof

twin escarp
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a tier 3 pyro triggering double burn will be doing 10

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though i guess it is a superheavy that self-heats

viscid ingot
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I'd say the burn is personally fine because there are quite a few avenues available to players on how to deal with it action-wise but the idea of a drone having a primer timer is interesting. Especially if the drone's blast radius is increased in size to make up for the lack of instant blast.

twin escarp
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my party was mostly just stabilizing to clear the burn

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
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long burn catalyst, firefly drone, corrosive gel, smolder charges (didn't use them though), superior reactor, hellfire projector, skyburner

vagrant grotto
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Basically the full kit, got it

steel apex
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hey valk, how are you with random idea spitballing?

vagrant grotto
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As long as you’re okay with me potentially using it, go for it

twin escarp
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I tend to go wild on optionals, though technically within the limits set by the guidelines

steel apex
vagrant grotto
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I will admit I’m questioning whether this drone even needs an explosion rider, but happy to hear this out

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I could see an upticker yeah

steel apex
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Mainly I'm thinking in terms of artillery/zoning pressure that right now it feels a bit like the current setup encourages deployment and then immediate detonation if viable

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and you're considering reducing the burst radius, which might make it less potent, but my thought is what if the drone started at Burst 1, then at some point (round based maybe to prevent multi-activation Napalms from speedrunning it) the radius ticked up to 2, then 3

vagrant grotto
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Yeah I’m picking up what you’re putting down

steel apex
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so you have a steadily growing area of potential threat cooking that the Napalm CAN immediately cash in, or they can put the drone somewhere (like a control point) and gradually turn it into a potential problem down the line unless the players deal with it

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Suldan's Sagittarius has a Fuel-Air Explosive option that works somewhat similarly

# 
On Attack: Instead of dealing damage normally, create a Blast 2 area of volatile fuel
within range 10. As a free action you may detonate this fuel, and all characters within
the area must pass a Hull save or take 2d6 explosive damage and be knocked
Prone. On a success, they take half damage only. Each turn you do not detonate the
fuel it continues to saturate the area. At the start of your next turn after attacking,
increase the area to Blast 3. At the start of the turn after that, the detonation's damage
becomes 3d6. This fuel dissipates at the end of the scene.```
vagrant grotto
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Got it, okok

Thinking “Start at burst 0, increase by 1 at end of each round”

viscid ingot
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Imagine the Firefly Drone being placed in a safe spot at the beginning of combat and it turns into this Blast 10 death zone of fire at a certain Round xD

vagrant grotto
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Cap at 2 or 3

steel apex
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I think starting at 1 might be better, given average combat scene lengths

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I WOULD cap it at 3

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just as a sanity check

vagrant grotto
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And obviously, convert this thing from recharge to Limited 1

velvet cairn
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How would burst 0 work, per se?

just the square the drone is in?

steel apex
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yeah but I think that's a bit too slow to ramp, blast 1 lets you potentially combo it with another source of burn (a hive let's say) for some various strategies

twin escarp
vagrant grotto
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Legit I think I expected it to practically be 1 at a time for some reason

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Whoops!

twin escarp
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I mean I never had 2 out just because I always popped it immediately

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it feels pretty tanky for an artillery/controller too

vagrant grotto
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It actually has worse Effective HP than the crb bombard (assuming Siege Armor)

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Its edge is 2 Armor and Heat Haze

viscid ingot
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That is fair since usually when a Napalm is on the field and players realize what it can do, they immediately beeline for it to send it back into the ground.

twin escarp
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if you assume siege armor yeah

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but once you're on top of the bombard it's 10-16 hp with no armor and worse evasion

vagrant grotto
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Well, noted then

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Ultras do tend to be more durable anyway

twin escarp
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this is true

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kind of funny how both the napalm and mesmerist have the same hp at tier 3

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since my mesmerist was evasive it was legitimately like

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18/16 evasion/edef

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placed on the start of round 4 of a 6 round holdout mission

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at some point it was like yeah we just have to kill the adds and accept that this fucker's sticking around

vagrant grotto
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Besides the knife, how was the Mesmerist?

twin escarp
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it did help that i increased the holdout objective's point count from 4 to 6

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I think one of my players got frustrated with the jamming overwatches

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especially with it triggering it itself with hypnotic attraction

steel apex
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Potential suggestion on the Salamander durability angle: more armor, fewer HP

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lean into the "derived from the genghis" bit

twin escarp
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I feel like it has a lot of recharge tech actions and when they didn't recharge I was just left doing basic techs and skirmishing

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it never went under 2 mirror images

steel apex
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siege armor is one of those resistance things I've talked about where I think it's fine because it specifically has ways around it (even setting aside lancer's assortment of things that bypass resistance), but EHP is harder to deal with outside of brute forcing it down, but a high armor artillery unit has some of that "bypassability" built in to how armor works

vagrant grotto
steel apex
#

so I was thinking, like, baseline 3 armor, less HP scaling

vagrant grotto
steel apex
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AND you could give it insulated if you want to make people have to use actual AP/shredded/etc instead of "fight burn with burn" but that's up to you

vagrant grotto
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I’m okay with the Napalm getting hosed by Burn tbh

velvet cairn
#

The Ghengis player and Napalm just awkwardly staring at each other across the battlefield as they are unable to really hurt each other.

twin escarp
#

I think as far as overwatch based defenders go it felt a lot stronger than the sentinels I've used

vagrant grotto
#

I’m imagining something with oversized fuel tanks that it can’t fully protect

velvet cairn
#

Give napalm -2 Agi at t1, scaling to 0 agi at t3?

twin escarp
#

at tier 3 the codespike rapier is in between the damage and threat of the sentinel's combat shotgun and retractable sword while hitting +6 and smart

#

on top of jamming

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
#

as does tom bloom, evidently

#

enemy weaknesses tend to not scale

steel apex
#

yeah

velvet cairn
#

moreso to lean into the idea that

"this is a machine that is going to walk through the fires of hell"

steel apex
#

NPC stat weaknesses tend to be there specifically for players to have a thing to target

velvet cairn
#

it may not come out unscathed, but it would not run from the fight

steel apex
#

most NPCs basically have one major positive HASE that scales, one minor HASE that scales, and then two that don't

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
#

'fascinated' and blinded felt kind of uninteractive, I will repeat that making them outright conditions would enable significantly more counterplay (though on blinded that's more of a basegame thing, I was getting it from headshot on my scout's my marker rifle mostly)

twin escarp
vagrant grotto
#

I’ve never run these guys at T3 so this is all helpful

#

Didn’t you have a Prism too? If so, how did it feel with the lock on changes to Refracting Armor (and in general)?

twin escarp
#

the ghosts I think had fine counterplay but the party didn't really have the attention to divert to the anomaly vet/commander scout and it's attached ghost because it was very much "that napalm needs to die NOW"

#

I quite like the lock on change to the diffraction beam, refracting armor never actually triggered but it synergizes with other enemies locking on for it and I think if the projector had ran in and immediately unconditionally fascinated 3 people someone probably might've left the table

#

the party found it very disruptive in a way worth prioritizing

vagrant grotto
#

Well I appreciate you and your players’ patience

twin escarp
#

I think I just had a comically high amount of priority targets

#

and as an opforce in total I think I might've overloaded on damage? I wasn't sure how to count the hybrid classes for my striker budget

vagrant grotto
#

I’d say to treat them as their primary role for the most part

twin escarp
#

my comvet scout with a pet ghost had expose weakness so even those two were pumping out 8 damage vulns

#

though comically most of the initial enemies only did heat and burn so it didn't get triggered for a while

twin escarp
#

I think you might want to try out uhh

#

mesmerist + prism

#

perhaps mesmerist + prism + another source of lock on like scout or the zealot optional

#

my elite prism died before the mesmerist showed up but memetic magnetism + fascinated on another target is very scary especially with dimensional raid

vagrant grotto
#

Because of the layered “attack me!” Effects, I presume

twin escarp
#

mhm yeah

#

also death by glamor feels kind of like a no-bind itself

vagrant grotto
#

No-bind?

twin escarp
#

in that you get heat whether or not you target the mesmerist

twin escarp
vagrant grotto
#

Got it

twin escarp
#

cause then it was literally 4 vs 3 heat

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah, glad I removed that

twin escarp
#

very well timed patch lmao

velvet cairn
# velvet cairn NGL Ultra torrent feels weird

Also, this felt weird tbh

in a test game against a friend

they just ignored the Ultra and killed everything else, because 1 activation really limited what it could do.

Might have been the sitrep of Siege (LEC) but it just felt like the friend threw one character to draw the ultra's attention and just cap the rest of the points.

image.png
#

It was an Ultra Pirate Torrent

vagrant grotto
#

lol, welp

velvet cairn
#

Another question that came up halfway was
"How far can I (the GM) deploy the copy"

#

I didn't really have an answer to that

ashen crown
velvet cairn
#

side by side seemed the most reasonable, but that left it open to aoe

vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
#

In sensor range meant that it could contest multiple objectives at once, but that opened it's own can of worms because now the ultra counts as 6 points for scoring (each copy has 3 structure but shared)

steel apex
#

and somehow adjust it so copies don't multiplicatively scale with actions quite the same way

#

that one's a tricky needle to thread, could do it like a spec ops type thing and say "all copies get one activation among the bunch and you pick one to take it" or something

#

reducing overspill damage to 0 is, on its own, quite a nice perk

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah I tried to get too cute with fiddling with the turns/round

steel apex
#

and probably it's gonna come out to about the same as 5 HP/structure on average

vagrant grotto
#

I’m not convinced I should even keep Split the Sea at this point lol. But I’ll need to sleep on it

ashen crown
#

It's too cool not to keep trying to make work imo

velvet cairn
#

It also really wouldn't be fun in an actual game because throwing one player to the wolves to win the game doesn't sit right with me

#

especially because that one mech was being tossed about the entire place

#

it was only the coreworm rockets that really elicited a response from the 1 guy controlling all 4 chars

vagrant grotto
#

Mm. I’ve got a lot to sleep on

velvet cairn
#

Optionals were-

Ultra: Split the Sea, Devastator, Fortress
Base: Crashing Tsunami, Wash Away, Roil.
Pirate: Coreworm.

vagrant grotto
#

If y’all have more feedback feel free to leave it here and I’ll review in the morning

velvet cairn
#

Also, one other thing that puzzled me in hindsight.

#

Each copy takes its own turn, but the original and all copies share the same pool of Structure, Stress, HP, Heat, and expendable abilities (such as those with Recharge, Limited, 1/round, or 1/scene tags).

#

RAW it seems like if a system is destroyed on one mech it's destroyed on the others

#

As an example, roil.

But it seems as though the intention is that each copy is it's own 'thing'.

#

And also raises the conundrum of if repairing one system from juggernaut would repair it across all copies or just that one unit.

twin escarp
#

my second torrent got oneshot by a superheavy combat drill lol

#

the torrent i think is pretty fun to use though, very fluid

#

the first torrent lasted longer than most of the single structure enemies i had on the field though

velvet cairn
#

Gigantic health pool

#

28 health is big business

#

Mb I forgot resilient gave 5

#

Perma soft cover is also nice since it makes HMG 2 difficulty

twin escarp
#

oh and memento culpa was very useful but I think I might've overloaded my party on weird effects and enemies they've never seen before

#

given that it was an 11 npc class encounter and 6 of them were neverbeforeseen

#

oh and one thing regarding the anomaly template

#

I think at high levels doing a raw scan is a lot rarer than using various other much more action-efficient methods of gathering information

velvet cairn
#

Blessed be the Cho

twin escarp
#

and using a raw scan is a lot harder to justify just to see templates

#

so it would be nice if data not found also worked with panopticon and athena and other such things that give you a mech's stats

#

feels kind of odd sharing a mech's stats but not it's class or templates

velvet cairn
#

Weird

I thought you share a mech's class and templates at base

#

But not what optionals it has or it's health/stats

sudden cosmos
#

On the subject of extrude knife, it also seems like it could have some interesting interactions with things like headshot or deadly

#

Unsure if intentional or not and probably not the first to bring it up

viscid ingot
#

Earlier Bad Egg ran that

#

Pretty nasty at T3

sudden cosmos
#

Guaranteed crit plus on crit triggers seems pretty

#

It sure seems!

twin escarp
twin escarp
#

though i mean the regular deadly was more multiplicative

#

cause it was extrude knifing 3 times a turn between overcharge and supreme melee

#

honestly not sure if supreme melee should work given it's labeled as ??? instead of as melee

#

but valk didn't say it doesn't work when I first showed it off here before the session

#

i believe the conclusion of the extrude knife combo earlier was that it should be -9999 instead of +9999 so it just only triggers the reliable

upbeat obsidian
viscid ingot
#

Orchis gets the pass for being Anime Captain America Mech with a sword

muted blaze
#

Orchis stays winning 😔

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
velvet cairn
#

In hindsight, Split the Sea also makes it impossible to contest objectives.

#

Because let's say you structure it once.

You have 2 units, 3 structure each.

#

They count as 6 points for Scoring Hostiles.

#

Structure one again, you have 3 units, 2 structure each.

Again, 6 points worth of scoring Hostiles.

It's only at 1 structure where it degrades to 4 points.

vagrant grotto
#

Well wait

#

Structure isn’t used for scoring

#

The sitreps that specifically give different rates explicitly call out Ultra and Elite

#

So like yeah I’ll accept that doesn’t make things better necessarily

#

But it’s a distinction

velvet cairn
# 
 are equal or fewer Scoring PCs inside the
 Control Zone than there are Scoring
 Hostiles. Hostiles with multiple Structure
 count as 1 character per Structure
 remaining```

Ah, I see why
#

I was looking at L:EC king of the hill scenario

#

Which, granted, 3rd party interacting with 3pt has unintended results

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah

#

I’ll admit I am thinking of rewording it so that the split is simply “this one guy occupies more spaces but otherwise has the same statblock”

velvet cairn
#

But even so, in base game, Gauntlet sitrep, engaging with the Ultra Torrent is a lose-lose proposition

image.png
#

Because in the worst case scenario you have "counts as 16"

vagrant grotto
#

Right which is why I’m planning to reword it like I mentioned

velvet cairn
#

It would actually be interesting though
if there was a way for the ultra torrent to self-damage

#

and force a split

#

basically weakening itself in the grand scheme of things in exchange for more capability to project battlefield control as an active choice

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
#

Precisely yeah

#

Anyway yeah reading all of last night’s feedback was a sobering experience lol

#

I’m thinking of ditching the Jammed from the Mesmerist’s kit in favor of a debuff that makes it easier for tech attacks to hit the target?

#

That or I slap the a save on the jammed part

#

Napalm may benefit from a slight HP scaling nerf, and its drone needs some work

vagrant grotto
#

I’m glad that further testing has revealed Torrents to be more durable than initially thought

sudden cosmos
#

Personally, I think the change to make tech attacks hit easier in place of the jammed is justright

vagrant grotto
#

I guess that’s a bit of a Witch problem too

sudden cosmos
#

Both my and my players' instincts to handle a mirage were to beat it to death and not bother moving away anyways because single-activation mirages couldn't even come close making images to pace with incoming damage

#

And the heat gain from codespike was cited as a non-issue, though maybe that's because it was the only heatgunner in the enemy comp

#

Though iirc the heat has been changed since I used/faced one last

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah, I’ve since flattened the heat gain in favor of letting MemeMag be the primary heat gen

#

I may bump it back up to flat 2 in the future but I think 1 heat is fine as a rider on a “main” weapon profile

muted blaze
#

Panopticon reveals HASE and stats but not weapons, traits or systems... Eh TBH I'd count them as just straight up scanning personally

vagrant grotto
#

I feel like it’s intended to show traits

muted blaze
#

Yeah

#

But even if it doesn't show templates... Like you can gather exactly what they do from Athena

vagrant grotto
#

Exactly

#

The point of revealing NPC class and template is to provide an approximation that can be refined with a scan

muted blaze
#

"huh, I don't know what this guy does but they have a chainaxe and veterancy"

sudden cosmos
#

I literally just hand them a scan for Athena because I can't be arsed ngl

muted blaze
#

The only scan adjacent effect I'd not actively scan is eye of Horus

#

because that specifically only states 4 of the stats NPCs have rather than like most of them

granite saddle
#

I've always been meh on the reaction jammed (because that's 1.5-2 turns of jammed), but if it loses that 1 heat is basically nothing, so 2 heat would make it a worthy threat again

muted blaze
#

Wack idea

#

remove "if reaction" and just make it jammed until current turn ends OR start of their next turn???

granite saddle
granite saddle
#

The kit has changed a lot since then though, so yeah that's fair

#

(and tbh I forgot I had until I read this 💀)

vagrant grotto
#

IIRC I wasn’t sold on “until start of next turn” mostly because they can do their thing and then walk away without much of a care

granite saddle
#

Oh yeah

#

Well it's still your decision so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

vagrant grotto
#

Like, there’s some potential for the off-turn effects of Jammed but I’m not super sold on it as a “punishment”

#

Here’s a good question though: now that MemeMag lacks scaling burst size, is it still reasonable for it to have Recharge

#

Slash do I tie recharge to the AOE but not a single target effect

granite saddle
granite saddle
velvet cairn
#

Behold a shitty meme.

image.png
#

A poor attempt at making a bootleg NPC manticore

image.png
#

Either Extreme Sun or Electrical Storms seem to be really funny.

Molten World is just straight out unfair.

#

But the question is

#

Would you rule Electrical storms only choosing it's targets from those within the burst 3

#

or just anyone on the battlemap, but if they arent in the burst 3 theres functionally no effect.

twin escarp
ashen crown
# twin escarp feels kind of odd sharing a mech's stats but not it's class or templates

I mean at that point you may as well share class + templates there’s not really a reason not to. According to Valk scan adjacent stuff counts.

However something I recently learned about Spotter 2 is that the data gathered is only the numerical stats- none of the traits, weapons, or systems are revealed. Idk how you would exclusively just reveal that but considering the number of NPCs with similar looking stat lines I think that’s a scenario where not letting Spotter 2 get around Anomaly is more fun than not

twin escarp
#

Maybe yeah

ashen crown
#

It feels like a fun challenge- if you Panopticon a Breacher for example you’re gonna have a difficult time figuring out if it really is a Breacher or if it’s actually a Sentinel

#

Since a Breacher and Sentinel have extremely similar stat lines

#

Plus templates are still hidden so until anything glaring happens you won’t be able to distinguish a Veteran and a Commander from one another

velvet cairn
#

Can't you see which it is based off the speed the unit moves at?

ashen crown
#

Even if you’ll see the structure count and know it’s one or the other

#

Probably, but the point is the difference won’t be immediately obvious

velvet cairn
#

Also Breacher has piss Edef so that should give the game away i think.

ashen crown
#

At the end of the day you probably can differentiate each NPC class in the game based on Numerical Stats alone. But it is a lot less obvious and requires more squinting

muted blaze
#

Likke you could have pockets of "motlen lava" that are only active when the anomaly is in range 3

vagrant grotto
sudden creek
#

Remembering to ask this in the correct thread -- The Occultist's Jealous Flock uses the phrasing 'in the area created by the FLOCK drone', does that mean adjacency, like their soft cover/burn effect?

vagrant grotto
#

I should reword that

vagrant grotto
#

Alright so thinking through the cases where Codespike Jams until start of the target's next turn

#
  1. On the target's turn, if they try to walk away, they get attacked and potentially Jammed. To avoid this, they can simply use all their attacks before moving (which may not be ideal due to positioning, but it's something)
  2. On the target's turn, if triggered off of one of the alternative reactions like Metafold Riposte or Dimensional Raid, it'll Jam the triggering attack like Impaler rounds on a Sentinel. Impaler rounds are 1/round and also Immobilize, but offer a save to avoid. Plus in order to trigger it off an attack, the Sentinel also needs Bodyguard + Reflexive Blow
#

Metafold Riposte is comparatively 1/scene, but Dimensional Raid has no limit

#

hm

#

Though DimRaid occurs after the attack so it doesn't interrupt it

# 
Memetic Magnetism
System, Recharge 4+, Quick Tech, +1/+2/+3
The Mesmerist makes a tech attack against each hostile character within Burst 2. On a hit, until the end of the target’s next turn, they take 2/3/4 Heat after performing a hostile action that doesn’t include the Mesmerist as a target. This system automatically recharges if used against a single target.

Codespike Rapier
Main Melee, Smart, +2/+4/+6
[Threat 2][4/6/8 Energy + 2 Heat]
On Hit: If the attack was made with OVERWATCH, tech attacks against the target gain +2 Accuracy until the end of their next turn.

Are these anything

ashen crown
#

I do like Jam Overwatch on the Base Kit conceptually, is all I’m able to add

vagrant grotto
#

Added a mention of automatic recharge on MemeMag, toying with "tech attack magnet" effect on Codespike

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

you're absolutely right about Yet Another Distinct Effect

#

It's why I'm hesitant on it

#

I'm gonna pencil it in for now... if anyone happens to test it before I cut my next release, lemme know

#

(I also bumped the Codespike heat up by 1 to compensate)

ashen crown
#

Why 2 accuracy instead of 1?

vagrant grotto
#

I wanted it to have some edge to it, but given that it's persistent I can see the issue

ashen crown
#

random idea… instant extra tech action on hit? Probably too much heat but idk

vagrant grotto
#

absolutely not

ashen crown
#

Fair

vagrant grotto
#

it's bad enough I'm rolling dice for Overwatch

ashen crown
#

Tbh it probably just needs to see play

#

The current idea

ashen crown
#

If the concern is tracking then you’ll only get an answer when trying to track it

vagrant grotto
#

Bringing Napalm's HP and Evasion down slightly to 13/16/19 and 7/8/9 respectively

The Heat Haze soft cover makes some impact to survivability, and I'm happy with it having 2 Armor (which is comparatively high for Artillery roles)

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
#

yes

#

this is my answer to folks saying "all my techs are on recharge" and I think it's aight

#

I want Mesmerist to have an AOE tech attack, I want it grabbing a handful of aggro at once and dodging away

#

so this is my compromise I think

muted blaze
#

Fair

#

With that wording I thought it would have the option to ONLY target 1 person

vagrant grotto
#

nope

#

I'll reword it to "one target within the area"

#

@steel apex current spitball for that "charging up drone" you suggested:

Firefly Drone
System, Drone, Limited 1, Quick Action
Firefly Drone (Size 1/2, HP 5/8/10, Evasion 10, 
E-Defense 10, Tags: Drone)

This drone can be deployed to a space within SENSORS and line of sight, creating a Burst 1 area. Hostile characters at least partially within the area cannot draw line of sight outside of the area. At the end of each round, the Burst increases by 1 (to a maximum of Burst 3). The drone explodes and is destroyed if it is targeted by an effect that deals any Burn; characters in its area must pass an AGILITY save or take 3 Heat and 5/7/9 Burn.
steel apex
#

idk if you care about that

vagrant grotto
#

ah, I was following your suggestion that it should start at Burst 1

#

perhaps I misunderstood the context

steel apex
#

The timing for stuff like this is always tricky

#

tying it to the Napalm's turn is also tricky because it means elites/ultras will ramp the expansion faster

vagrant grotto
#

yeah, unless I use "first turn/last turn" terminology

ashen crown
#

But it’s Limited 1, so should they be able to get more use out of it faster to pair with their staying power? Elite’s probably not, but Ultras maybe?

vagrant grotto
#

mmm. I'm okay with it going up from 1 to 2 at end of round

steel apex
#

yeah I mean you can try it there, see how it works

vagrant grotto
#

it means that it didn't Overcharge Deploy + Shoot Gun to get the Burst 2 immediately

#

we'll see how it goes and if I think of something better in the meantime

vagrant grotto
# 
SPLIT THE SEA (ULTRA)
Trait, 3/scene

This trait replaces REINFORCED and RESILIENT. If the Torrent would be destroyed, it instead regains all HP and splits apart, creating a copy of itself within SENSORS. All copies are an extension of the Torrent: Any effects against a copy is treated as against the Torrent itself, and the Torrent occupies and may act through its copies’ spaces. The Torrent can only be affected by an area of effect once, but involuntary movement affects each copy individually.

Aight, is this revamp of Split the Sea anything

#

goal is something akin to the Prism where each copy is just The Torrent, But Over There

ashen crown
#

Is the intent that the main benefit is positioning and area control?

vagrant grotto
#

yes

#

it is still One (1) Ultra, just with better map coverage

ashen crown
#

I guess this technically makes the Torrent a 1 Stress NPC regardless of the rules too

#

Technically this makes Legendary also redundant, but GMs can nix Legendary on their own time

#

This also interacts funny with Veteran and Commander (and 3rd party structure templates)

vagrant grotto
#

you carve through the first few structure, then when it's destroyed, Split the Sea kicks in

ashen crown
#

Yeah I was imagining that too, still interacts funny imo since it’s now the inverse of the Old Split the Sea

vagrant grotto
#

I suppose I could have it trigger when the Torrent hits 0 HP or lower instead, then it'll last a bit longer with multiple bodies

ashen crown
#

Nah keep it as is

#

Otherwise you get really weird stuff going on with Structure checks and stuff

dapper goblet
#

I am currently running Split the Sea on an ultra torrent

#

players have hard countered it by simply not killing it

dapper goblet
#

OK yeah full feedback on Split the Sea in its prior form? It does not matter if your players simply use control on the Torrent rather than damaging it. That's an interesting note but no useful data from this playtest, other than it turns out an ultra with only one activation isn't as good as one with two

#

Which, uh, not very useful data

steel apex
#

I'm going to offer an unsolicited idea which is: what if Split the Sea just straight up turns the Torrent into the "two-headed, two-tailed, bifurcated snake"

#

like, the Torrent has two bodies, that's it, that's what it does

#

give it a shared structure pool and you can take the usual 2-3 activations in whichever body you feel like at any given moment

#

Based on the feedback of the last couple of days, my casual gut impression is the biggest potential stumbling block with Split the Sea is that it's something that's purely reactive/passive, and can thus by bypassed by choosing not to engage with the Torrent

#

now, I'm not sure how practically feasible "just don't do any damage to an ultra" is going to shake out as a long-term strategy per se, but I do think it might be worth considering a more "you can't simply ignore this" implementation

#

Plus, I think if you did Split the Sea as a more straight-up "bifurcated ultra" then you might be able to get away with fewer tradeoffs like losing reinforced AND resilient, because at that point the calculus becomes "are the other ultra benefits like juggernaut/ultra optionals worth it when split into two bodies versus just taking two Elites"

dapper goblet
#

Squad did have a LOT of "ultra-bulldoze" control (glitch time, cable winch, blackbeard) but yeah seeing as the torrents dpr isnt insanely high it does feel like it can get dogwalked a bit if it walks into a situation like that

#

(As in, juggernaut didn't help very much)

#

I toyed with the idea of bifrucating the snake but was asked not to for feedback, and now that I think about it "ultras being down an activation really sucks" is decent feedback

steel apex
viscid ingot
#

The idea of essentially splitting the ultra into two separate tokens that share activations is certainly a novel idea.

The closest equivalents to those I reckon would be.

Field Guide to Suldan - Conscript NPC
GMS Crisis Core - Squadron NPC
Enhanced Combat - Legionnaire NPC
Frontline NPC Pack - Platoon Template

steel apex
#

The Spec Ops template is similar in that it gives every Spec Ops templated unit a collective 1 additional activation you share amongst them

viscid ingot
#

True

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
# steel apex Plus, I think if you did Split the Sea as a more straight-up "bifurcated ultra" ...

And yeah no this is looking more appealing by the moment. Was trying to go for a “ooze split” approach like a D&D black pudding, but that just isn’t gonna work cleanly with Lancer’s health bar system. If it was all one big bar then maybe I could be silly and trigger a split on Energy damage or something? But it feels like square peg in a round hole at the moment so just saying “the Ultra Torrent two bodies and can move/act through both” is probably the cutting of the Gordian knot

muted blaze
#

Big slime from into the breach

#

Every number in the torrents stats are doubled apart from activations, structure, stress, heat cap and to hit bonuses. When the torrent structures half them all and duplicate

vagrant grotto
# 
SPLIT THE SEA (ULTRA)
Trait
The Torrent occupies two independent spaces of its SIZE, dividing its actions and movement between the two as it desires. Either set of spaces is valid for targeting the Torrent, though the Torrent is still only a single character and may only be affected once by a single area of effect. Involuntary movement against one set of spaces only affects the targeted spaces, but other effects are otherwise shared between the two.
#

taking Kai's suggestion, because I think it's gonna be the cleanest

muted blaze
#

I love the original

#

But I assume it's just too painful to work comfortably

vagrant grotto
#

it's flavorful but too easy to play around it seems

muted blaze
#

Just double it's health and damage

#

Simple as

#

And knockback

ashen crown
#

This is unrelated but I do find it kinda… maybe not odd because there’s nothing wrong with it’s just kind a vibe, but the fact that the Torrent doesn’t have any way to make occupying a character’s space mean anything is a thing (like provide soft cover or act as difficult terrain or smthn).

Again it’s not a bad thing it’s just- it’s the type of thing that I’d expect to be there, and it not being there is probably for the best but an irrational part of my brain is still trying to make a phantom memory for it

muted blaze
#

To me it feels like "you cannot fuck with my positioning by standing there"

vagrant grotto
#

yeah, and it also means that the Torrent isn't actually all that good at blocking/keeping enemies out with its bulk, which keys into its role as Vanguard but not Rearguard

#

it takes the point but isn't especially good at holding the point

ashen crown
#

Yeah it makes sense I just keep looking at the Torrent stat block and thinking “wait it doesn’t grant soft cover?” when it never did that

#

Man I wanna find an excuse to use a torrent tho it’s a cool NPC

ashen crown
muted blaze
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Wait if the torrent runs up to a size 2 characater does it still suffer engagement?

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I don't have the PDF on hand

vagrant grotto
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yes

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lemme check though

muted blaze
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So it's speed drops to 0

ashen crown
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It says it ignores engagement period, so unless it runs up to a Minotaur I think it can coast by a Barbarossa unimpeded

muted blaze
#

Oooooh sick

vagrant grotto
#

ah, yeah there we go

muted blaze
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So with it's blob form it can use it to run THROUGH someone and knockback them backwards, whereas I don't think many NPCs can do that? Maybe a breacher can with a ram?

ashen crown
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Oh neat

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Yeah since the Torrent focuses a lot more on Knockback than general forced movement this makes a lot of sense

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Also it makes the new version of Split the Sea make a lot more sense

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Funny idea to combo with the fact that the Wavebreaker is an AOE- what if new Split the Sea also allowed Torrent to not take damage from its own abilities but still take Knockback?

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Idk how you’d phrase it but I imagine with 2 footprints being able to knock one of them around along with some targets could be funny

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Probably wouldn’t work but. Idea.

vagrant grotto
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mmm fuck forgot that about targeting

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gotta add immunity to their own AOEs

muted blaze
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Beauitiful rendition on why ggoing through people is effective

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Taking commissions btw /j

ashen crown
muted blaze
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No

ashen crown
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Drat

muted blaze
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£1 a minute

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With a minimum cost of 50p

ashen crown
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You know speaking of Amorphous- flavor wise, how does Grappling a Torrent work?

vagrant grotto
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you get a grip on part of it, but it's slippery

dapper goblet
vagrant grotto
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there is a core in the Torrent, tbf

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
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After running them in like 3 or 4 combats im pretty positive on the torrent overall. Split the seas is wonky, but drown in nanites is super, super fun, and if you take the diff terrain optional they pair really nicely with supports

vagrant grotto
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this is one way I envision the Torrent

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Drown in Nanites is fun? fuck yeah

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that one was a doozy to mold into shape

muted blaze
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Wallflower ||If I ran one again I'd love to run either [THE END] or Wolf spider as one||

dapper goblet
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It caused an "oh shit" moment that forced my blackbeard to grapple THROUGH an enemy battle line to move it off of the tokugowa

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My closest comparison is its a smoker from l4d vibe

granite saddle
dapper goblet
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The fact that the victim doesn't move with the torrent is really fun

vagrant grotto
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turns out that restricting movement on an NPC that wants to move a lot is highly anti-synergistic

dapper goblet
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(Unless I misread something and youre gonna tell me im a scoundrel)

vagrant grotto
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wait what the victim moves with the torrent

dapper goblet
#

IM A SCOUNDREL

vagrant grotto
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what version you on

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Roil

dapper goblet
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Maybe an old one

vagrant grotto
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v1.9

dapper goblet
#

But it didn't specify and It made a fun moment

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I assumed involuntary movement wouldn't count by my read but

vagrant grotto
#

last sentence "jammed and immobilized and moves with the torrent"

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nope, "moves" is inclusive

dapper goblet
#

Eh, I'll take a mulligan on it, concept still works

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Lancer players and reading

vagrant grotto
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at least there's that lol. Basically you ran the old old version lol

dapper goblet
#

Whatever the opposite of that hand grasping meme is

ashen crown
dapper goblet
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(I think i literally HAVE the old version)

ashen crown
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It'd be fun to make a Difficult Terrain based sitrep tbh

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I think SpecOps has an optional or two for ignoring Difficult Terrain

vagrant grotto
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v1.0.2:

image.png
ashen crown
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Oh yeah the modern version is way better

granite saddle
#

You don't have to agree, but it does solve the "yet another non-condition effect" problem

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(it's nit really a problem imo, but still)

vagrant grotto
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"hitting Overwatch recharges all systems"

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that could be cooking

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Ensures uptime of some of its nastier hacks too

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though I do like the potential of "now all of [the OpFor] knows [your administrative password]"

granite saddle
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Yeah, me too
And both is definitely too much, too.

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
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recharges all quick tech and full tech features

granite saddle
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*Side-eyes all the [K]Ultra recharge tech abilities*

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Wait hang on Puppetcrasher into OW is an instant recharge with this damn

vagrant grotto
#

but yeah no it may be a bit much

velvet cairn
vagrant grotto
#

at least, if it uses the Burst version

granite saddle
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Or other attacks (ram, grapple for some reason, invade...)

velvet cairn
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How does moving along with torrent interact with (Sunzi) our lord of breaking the game?

vagrant grotto
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Sunzi will not move

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Sunzi largely ignores the Torrent's control

velvet cairn
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No, I meant a Sunzi who popped core

And can redirect all movement to beside them/the anchor

vagrant grotto
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it's not a teleport so

velvet cairn
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Question.

In general, if I have a unit with a trait of

"All movement this unit makes is a teleport"

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IE: Blinkspace Carver/Operator/conditional mourning cloak

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And they get moved

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Even if it is involuntary, does it count as tp

vagrant grotto
#
  1. Operator and MC Core only teleport on standard move. Blinkspace Carver would be everything
  2. this is a topic for #rules-questions
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unless you're bringing this around to something in PPG?

velvet cairn
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Mainly because I was wondering how to run a Torrent NPC if it ever gets assigned as an ally

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And uses engulf in nanites as a ghetto reposition

vagrant grotto
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Well, if you give the Torrent Blinkspace Carver then yes the Sunzi can fuck with it.

Same deal if you give it Spatial Rend from Anomaly

granite saddle
granite saddle
velvet cairn
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I'm also not sure if it's just because the weapons being shot are too strong or not

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But it seems nerfed kensei parry soaks much less punishment against heavy weaponry

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It survived only 3 rounds instead of 5 on the KOTH sitrep

sudden cosmos
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Having used an engulf torrent against a sunzi with the core power on, the resolution is easy. Whichever character gets targeted with AoW is teleported. The other isn't.

velvet cairn
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I didn't really get to play with the full kit since Jetstream Sam was only a normie and not an ultra

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Sorry, not KOTH

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Train Heist

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Still managed to mog a duskwing (frame totalled) though with charged slash so that was funny

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But i think that was a fluke because it was an exposed duskwing that double structured through 28 damage (and thus triggered instant destruction)

ashen crown
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It also makes Ultra’s “unlimited overwatch” overall less nasty

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Since if it gets 2 successful overwatches between turns that does practically nothing

twin escarp
vagrant grotto
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Well, at least it means it can’t activate twice in a row and pop it for Burst 2

twin escarp
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unless it's an elite veteran with viper's speed

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i ran a 'boss' that was a viper's speed veteran commander scout with several reactions and a ghost stapled on

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ultra at home:

vagrant grotto
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well, at least RAI viper's speed doesn't work like that, but yeah I need to think a bit more about this

twin escarp
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Is Viper's speed only supposed to apply to the first round?

vagrant grotto
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Yes

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Though I wouldn't blame a GM for wanting it to do something more

viscid ingot
#

Viper's Speed is simply better when it is applied every round instead of First Round. Because that's a Veteran optional slot you yoinked for like one single use.

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Personal Opinion

ashen crown
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Veteran was kinda designed to have mechanically broken features, mechanically dead features, and everything in between. Which was certainly a choice.

viscid ingot
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A lot of Veteran features are either really powerful or really wack in a bad way.

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Which is kinda rough

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I can see why Kai and Maria made their own Veteran Templates and to be frank, so am I because reading through it (CRB) makes me uncomfortable now.

ashen crown
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I can see the vision of a. Wanting Veteran optionals to have more features per tier, b. Wanting to have the option to pick and choose whether Veteran is taken primarily for it’s structure or it’s structure and then some, and c. The ability to at higher tiers take both mechanical and flavor abilities to flavor enemies better and make them more dynamic.

In practice it. Doesn’t really work like that.

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The worst part is I like the vision but in practice it’s not something I’m partial to

ashen crown
steel apex
#

Here's my question, how good is viper's speed even if it DOES work every round?

vagrant grotto
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initiative is a circle

viscid ingot
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Pretty damn good since this forces players to take a back seat when they are planning to prepare for stuff. A veteran with Viper's Speed can make or break their whole plan if not careful.

vagrant grotto
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might as well just be a longer initiative tail

steel apex