#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 10 of 1

muted blaze
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Did my discord break or did i send that twice?

vagrant grotto
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I purposefully made Anomaly’s techs Traits, soooooooo

muted blaze
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Aye fair

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Like, any tech feels like it should be linked to a system. And I cant be arsed to do bonus book keeping so I'll just call any tech actions systems because it makes sense. Since anomaly is specifically wacky bullshit I'll treat that as it should be treated

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Cos I dont care if the tech action is a trait, the tech action is literally going to turn me inside out and become a farmer instead of a super cool super soldier

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I think the thing i should be complaining about there isn't the fact it'll be destroyed to a system trauma.a

vagrant grotto
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By the way, how are things looking July 20th, 26th, and/or 27th

muted blaze
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Are you gonna just do it one of those days or are you looking for peeps to say which are most convenient?

vagrant grotto
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I’m probably gonna run… two? Oneshots? Separately

muted blaze
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I'm only good on the 20th :P

vagrant grotto
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Noted

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
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@empty arrow @muted blaze @sudden cosmos @granite saddle how is availability looking <t:1753034411:F> for an LL6 PPG playtest

granite saddle
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It works for me. Might not have as much time as usual, but I can be there.

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I'll see how things shake out during the week if I can get more time, but I can make it then for a good 4 hours at least

sudden cosmos
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let me check when my playtest is. I should be in the clear though

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Okay yeah should work. I've got a thing (Lancer)at <t:1753052400:t> so that's a hard out for me though

vagrant grotto
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Okay y’all are in then

sudden cosmos
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Is there any mech you'd like someone to play? I recall saying you wanted someone to try your sunzi stuff, but idk if that'd be too many variables

granite saddle
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If you allow me I intend to give Long Arms an Encore

sudden cosmos
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Unless otherwise specified, I was gonna unleash the dorg

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Though I've been rotating a gilg in my head for a bit so i'm not sure

ashen crown
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They are- otherwise a witch would instantly die after rolling anything but glancing blow on a structure check

vagrant grotto
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Pitch is the second half of this post's Hook

sudden cosmos
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do we gotta fill out the form?

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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I'm just providing ~context~

granite saddle
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you're lucky, I've just about had time to forget what the map you showed us was

vagrant grotto
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I don't think I did, I kept it under wraps IIRC

granite saddle
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I know I saw something once.

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But hey, guess I'll just have to wait and see, huh ?

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(translation: so hyped)

granite saddle
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Just read your new changes to stuff, and :

  • What happens for AutoStab if the weapons already had reliable before ? Should it stack or not ?
  • OpCal just being knockback 1 is laughably bad for a whole CB imo. At least give it kb 2 (and maybe even no save on the prone-on-crit, but that might get dangerous so make that 1/round if you have to).
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also still think the HMG having the same damage and reliable stats as the Nanocarb is rough, maybe just bump its reliable by 1 or 2 to return it to the Heavy Gunner menace title, but Archer-style this time (it even fits, it's almost the same weapon name)

sudden cosmos
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My build is effectly unchanged by any of this and thus I feel a little obligated to try and play something that is

granite saddle
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Neitheris mine, but that ain't gonna stop Long Arms

sudden cosmos
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Why not give this WW change a test

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Turns out my lycan build almost translates over to it

vagrant grotto
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I might say "fuck both of those" honestly and just leave them as CRB at the moment

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that or lean into Maria's "make them GMS mods" approach

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I can't be assed to put that together now though so just treat them like CRB for now @granite saddle

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As for builds, I’m fine if they aren’t touching any of my player side house rules, happy to simply test PPG

muted blaze
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Are you gonna make a thread elsewhere or are we stealing this channel for 4 days?

vagrant grotto
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Good point, I’ll make a thread

foggy wadi
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I got this error trying to install the current version from the itch.io page, is this a problem with the lcp or on my end? The dependencies seemed correct

404.PNG
vagrant grotto
foggy wadi
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I am indeed above the 5mb mark, but I don't recall getting this beforehand

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I don't speak tech so I don't know how to interpret it

vagrant grotto
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Does it occur on a fresh private window?

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#lcp-tech-support has probably seen something like this too

foggy wadi
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but on the other hand, I don't see any actual issues coming from it, so maybe it doesn't matter

vagrant grotto
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I probably whiffed on a tag somewhere

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Thanks for the bug report!

vagrant grotto
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You know sometimes I worry about the Anchor’s Omninet Grounding ability to shut down tech attacks, but then I remember that ICEOUT drone exists player side

vagrant grotto
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Does this happen on another, fresh browser?

ashen crown
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Hey has the Knight been updated in offices capacity to move the banner to the Ultra trait yet?

vagrant grotto
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“Yet”?

ashen crown
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Weren’t you planning to swap it to Ultra because- oh wait that’s Evergaol I’m dumb

vagrant grotto
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Released 1.7!

itch.io
Update to 1.7.0!

1.7.0 This update includes a “beta” for a lucky thirteenth NPC Class, the Kensei! In addition, I reworked some of the Napalm’s optionals to work better with its Barrage-centric action economy. N...

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@sudden cosmos Napalm updates are here

sudden cosmos
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Thankfully not one of the ones I'm using on Saturday

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But noted dogepray

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Lovely change on lodestone too!

south cypress
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Oh there's a Lodestone change? Good to know, I'm running an Anchor on Saturday

vagrant grotto
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basically just "no teleporting the Anchor"

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happy to hear Anchor is getting some play 😄

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it's the redheaded stepchild of my defenders

sudden cosmos
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I appreciated it for annoying the local sunzi

south cypress
sudden cosmos
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I'd give anchor another spin if I wasn't wrists deep in "can't use any fun homebrew stuff because jam playtesting"

vagrant grotto
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ain't that a mood

sudden cosmos
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But Anchor with artillery buddies is justright and I wholeheartedly suggest people here try it out

vagrant grotto
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but yeah Kensei is out now; no Veteran/Ultra features yet, they're on the way

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Kensei is "beta" so its features are subject to change

ashen crown
south cypress
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Kensei looks neat

ashen crown
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Oh hell yeah the Kensei update!

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Ya know looking at the changelog glad to see Fervent Retribution go (and glad I tested it). I was honestly not expecting things to end up here when I made that combo, I just thought it was neat and cool, but turns out it very much wasn’t in practice lol

south cypress
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I feel like Kensei's 40mm Hand Cannon would be incredibly mean to combo with the Exotic/Anomaly's Living Weaponry trait

vagrant grotto
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it's what, 1d6 HP? Kensei is base 20, and that's 3.5 HP on average, so it's worse than Regenerator in most cases (assuming Regenerator stays on of course)

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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Eh you could say the same thing about current Zealot

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The point of these NPCs is to be experimental

vagrant grotto
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Zealot isn't the first thing you read though lol

ashen crown
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Hm true, but from observing things certain NPCs have a habit of having the spotlight for a bit before going back into the shadows

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Just cause it doesn’t get attention for a while doesn’t mean it’s never gonna get attention

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Honestly I could replace the Knight in my pickup game with it, would pair beautifully with the Slinger. Buuut I like the Knight’s Throw for deployment setup reasons

vagrant grotto
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don't change on my account lol

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anyway, bedtime

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time to sleep on whether I should change the Kensei's weapon flavor to be a “railgun” sheath

ashen crown
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Honestly now that I’m dwelling on it, nah I’m genuinely tempted. Null grav could serve a pretty similar purpose to what I need

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I just didn’t consider the anchor cause I never thought about it

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Nah actually for a control? Specifically this control? An Anchor is perfect!

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… god all the initial deployments are gonna be purely 3rd party and expansion NPCs lmao

static kernel
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Deft Parry kicks ass. i like the difficult movement deal on the sheathe.

vagrant grotto
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Excellent haha

static kernel
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i can see each of the specific sekiro / MGR moves that these are meant to emulate, i like the look of this guy a lot. will probably replace the ronin character in sotw with one

vagrant grotto
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Kensei is something that looks great on paper, I’m just wary of how it’ll do in practice. I’m hopeful though

static kernel
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yeah it will suffer greatly when it goes up against the forced-move controllers my players love

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do you have any thoughts on what the veteran/ultra traits for it are going to be?

vagrant grotto
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I’m already foreseeing a threat bump in the base kit lol

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Not sure on vet and ultra

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Pretty sure I want Ultra to be Mortal Draw (charged profile attacks everything in threat)

static kernel
vagrant grotto
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It’s got some shimmy energy to nudge it in place at least

ashen crown
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If any NPC were to do it, Kensei seems like the one

vagrant grotto
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I don’t know about veteran, was thinking Jammed immunity plus something else

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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It's funky but that's what this supplement is supposed to be

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You'd just need to find out how to accomodate for a third activation :|

static kernel
vagrant grotto
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“If the Kensei is the last NPC to act in the round, this system [extinguishes the sun]”

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Replace the thing in brackets with something reasonable

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Like free ice cream, maybe

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Jokes aside

ashen crown
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You'd probably want the setup to target a character that hasn't activated, and then the final activation follows up

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Also weren't you going to bed?

vagrant grotto
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Yes

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Good night

static kernel
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night!

vagrant grotto
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Meditate on the swordsmaster

static kernel
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btw, this is a thing that's come up in another homebrew i think, but -- if a character gains the elite template mid-combat, do you also give them another class optional? Since that is supposedly part of the kit

vagrant grotto
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GM’s choice, it’s overhead that can be omitted if desired

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Napalm changes are out now by the way!

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I pinged Isa by mistake earlier 😵‍💫

placid glacier
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hell yeah- playtesting time again >:)

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also: Kensei 👀

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very excited to try and test it in a comp- might swap the knight I got upcoming with a kensei

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oh huh- I thought kensi would be classed on defender

granite saddle
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Maybe something like "choose to deal normal/halved dmg on a charged attack, but deal the same amount of kb"

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Something like that

foggy wadi
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Also I just installed 1.7, and there was no error it all, huh

vagrant grotto
static kernel
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i can't not see a spikier Sentinel analogue, especially if you bump the threat up

vagrant grotto
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I actually think of sentinel as more of a tank defender (unless you’re dealing with Kai’s Rebake, in which case Eye of Midnight lends itself more to Rearguard)

But I can see what you mean about the danger of just standing next to a sentinel being similar to standing next to a Kensei. I don’t like the implications…

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I may need to find a way to make it more distinct or give better reward on landing the charged blow

granite saddle
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I fail to see how they're so similar.
The sentinel's whole thing is when you move away from it, not just staying there, isn't it ?

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I guess not so much with just its CRB base kit, but all the optionals are very OW oriented still

vagrant grotto
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Yeah it’s very Overwatch oriented to make it Sticky/Tanking, but the base kit is just two close range weapons and Speed 5 (and eye of midnight and guardian I guess)

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So like, the intents are different but the question is if the execution is actually different

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Right now they both walk up and threaten space

granite saddle
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Still, Kensei pushes you out while Sentinel is just generally a bad time to be around

vagrant grotto
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If you keep standing next to the sentinel they can shoot and potentially barrage you. If you walk away they can just shoot you

If you keep standing next to the Kensei, they can hit you potentially for barrage-tier damage, but if you walk away it can just hit you for skirmish damage

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This is the main base kit parallel

granite saddle
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Oh so that's the point of dropping a charge huh

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Didn't think of that

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To me it was still mainly "stay charged forever until I can slash someone real good or have to block"

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Yeah that's fair then

vagrant grotto
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At which point the bigger distinction becomes the other aspects of the NPCs: Kensei actually has a defensive tool and a beefier statline, while Sentinel has Eye and Guardian and is a little more frail

vagrant grotto
static kernel
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fwiw, at a glance i don't think the similarity is close enough that you should feel worried or like you need to change it

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the other main similarity is that they both slow themselves down to increase how dangerous they are

vagrant grotto
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If anything I’d give the Kensei a little more damage or instead have the charged attack Shred

granite saddle
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Well hey
If you're gonna finally crack and put Dazed on an NPC, why not go all the way and make it inflict Drained ?

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That's bound to get players running away

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Punch their guns so hard they don't wanna shoot no more

static kernel
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what does Drained do? I don't see it on the pdf

granite saddle
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It's still only in the house rules rep

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It's half damage on all attacks

static kernel
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ahhh yeah maria's alt structure does something similar. not a bad idea, but imo the kensei is a Born Killer so it should focus on making followup attacks easier

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
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I don’t know if I really wanna bring Drained into play

vagrant grotto
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I don’t know, by trying to limit my use of new conditions and keywords and stuff, I’m trying to maintain a sort of air of compatibility/approachability? Like “I’m just using keyword-ed effects found in official materials, you can reuse your old knowledge and have a bit of confidence in the balance”

Plus like, there’s the issue of “what is the actual power budget for Drained/Dazed/insert homebrew condition here”

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Realized I forgot to update the version listed on compcon, fixed that now lol

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
ashen crown
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Question about Windstorm; any reason you chose to make it include the target of the attack (like with Molten Wreath) rather than exclude the target of the attack (like with Extended Blade)?

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Also it’s kinda funny to me the Kensei has a tech attack but -2 systems lol- like it sucks at hacking unless it’s telling you to piss off

ashen crown
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Ok so I think my plan for my shitfaced/playtest control is now narrowed down to at most 6 NPC classes:

  • Lurkers
  • Strider
  • Anchor
  • Vulture
  • In Golden Flame Slinger
  • Hornet

I’ll deploy one of each initially (Hornet excepted, Lurker doubled), and keep two of each in the wings as reinforcements (Strider excepted, it’ll be an elite and not have reinforcements, and I’ll prolly only have one anchor and one lurker in the wings). I’ll also probably only have one, maaaaybe 2 Veterans, keeping templates low and focusing on quantity of enemies (also I have run almost none of these NPCs before so it’ll be easier to track without templates).

How’s that sound for an LL6 Pickup control of likely 4 players?

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Asking here because that’s 2 PPG NPCs in the Sitrep and other 3rd party playtest stuff so it’s just… easier to get advice here for GM stuff

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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They’ll live

ashen crown
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I'm sure it's fine, there's the SNiper and this is much more telegraphed

vagrant grotto
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I will admit that of the optionals, Windstorm is probably the one most likely to be cut

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I’ve had a railgun-themed trait called “Gaussian Blur” on my mind and I’ve been looking for an excuse to cram it in

muted blaze
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Wording of the sword is really messing me up

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I think its the nested if statement

vagrant grotto
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Gaussian Blur
Trait, Recharge 4+
When activating Gunmetal Sheathe, the Kensei may first move its speed in a straight line, ignoring obstructing characters, engagement, and reactions. It deals 3/4/5 Kinetic AP damage to all characters it passes through.
muted blaze
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How about this

Uh idk trait name
System
Whenever they want, the GM may say "omiramu, mo shinderu" if any player says "Nani!" Their character immediately dies
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Srsly though im rereading the sword over and over and im trying to pass it through my head

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It feels very program-like which is messing with my English reading

Primarily the use of 2 ifs next inside eachother with separate conditions

(Once I understand what theyre on about though it is more understandable)

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And I think the second thing messing me is the second if says "the kenseis turn" which throws me off since they normally state current turn or previous turn in situations like this

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And im curious if the first if could be truncated to "when sheathed"

vagrant grotto
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To use the Charged profile, the sword must:

  1. Be sheathed since the start of the Kensei’s turn
  2. Remain sheathed continuously until the Kensei attacks with it
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Would it be better or worse for 1. To be if the Kensei has started a turn with their weapon sheathed

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Another way could be, what if the kensei could charge their weapon as a protocol?

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Remove weapon profiles and have a separate trait which charges it until its unsheathed, doubling base damage and granting +1 accuracy

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Potentially in the space that removing a lot of the space from the weapon goes

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Ofc, unless formatting struggles and it can't fit on a page

vagrant grotto
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Maybe, but now that’s another “state” to be in

muted blaze
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Fair

vagrant grotto
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I get the approach though

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Came across my mind too

muted blaze
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Turn the kensei into a FSM

vagrant grotto
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I’m going to pretend I know what that acronym means

muted blaze
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Finite state machine

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
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Welp, it’s in beta

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I’ll hammer it out

muted blaze
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Tru tru

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There'll definitely be a sweet spot

vagrant grotto
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Thinking about making the sheathe prevent attacking until the end of the current turn, since that’s the bad scenario I’m trying to avoid

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Still need wording to prevent Overwatch from being charged though

muted blaze
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Trying to think of wording but then immediately came up with a triple if statement 💀

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Sheathing the weapon jams itself

vagrant grotto
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Yup no nothing is clean here lol

muted blaze
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Cos you've expressed concern before are you OK if I try to have a crack at the wording for it?

vagrant grotto
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For a relatively simple concept of “charge the dd288 and only cash it out on your turn” this is being a pain

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Sure go for it

muted blaze
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"During the Kenseis turn, the Kensei may attack suing the charged profile if the weapon has been sheathed since the start of it's turn"

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Then afterwards, always unsheathe

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
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That wording is much cleaner, yes, thank you

muted blaze
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Np

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You have my permission to use it 😛

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Alsoooo, is the 1/round limitation on block really necessary? Like, its locked to a quick action unless vet traits or ultra traits change that, and it means Elites can block one attack then cant block the next

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Eeeh, I can see why...

vagrant grotto
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Let’s call it “future proofing”

muted blaze
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Anyway from vibes perspective I think i need to see how they go in play

vagrant grotto
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You and me both

muted blaze
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Surely I won't encounter one within the next 2 days however

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That would never happen

vagrant grotto
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Sure wouldn’t

muted blaze
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Memorising its stats beforehand just so I can scan it when it appears so I can justify metagaming

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"I prepare my action to scan a Kensei when anyone takes an action and there's a Kensei in the ingress zone"

vagrant grotto
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Pfffft

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Yeah they accounted for that

ashen crown
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Oops

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The Illiteracy solar radiation strikes again

vagrant grotto
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Gonna make the wording fix right the fuck now

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Iron: Hot

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Therefore, strike

muted blaze
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The point is, reactions are normally limited by round based limitations which is understandable as theyre just opportunistic. Whereas the deft parry tied to action economy putting another limiter ontop of it

Another example, eye of midnight turns the reaction economy limitation to movement limtation

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Is this a problem? Probably not

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It only effects Elites (or spec ops), ultras refresh them every turn anyway

vagrant grotto
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y/n?

placid glacier
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firefly funny (more coherent thoughts after session)

image.png
vagrant grotto
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Uh oh lol

cursive plover
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I fielded two Mesmerists in today's session for a LL1 party: untemplated T1, Hypnotic Attraction + narcissus Override. Overall I think I quite liked them- they each got destroyed in different ways (one was whittled down via deterministic damage and lucky hits; the other had its images exhausted and then murdered by one massive blow

They did a good job both being a damage sponge for my other units (with their abilities significant enough that the party prioritized taking them out) and also locking down the party from reaching the CZ by threatening them with overwatch. I suspect this latter bit might become less relevant at higher LL when people have a lot more room to have reaction-dodging movement, but my party today didn't seem to pack any of that.

I did modify Mirror Image so that the Mesmerist starts the scene with 2 mirror images, as I didn't really want to have to rush their turn to build defenses. This seemed to work well enough, and the mirror image cap meant this didn't feel too excessive.

Narcissus override did cause some confusion (in me) as to what "drawing line of sight only to the Mesmerist" should mean specifically for range + blast X effects, such as grenades. Normally one requires LoS to the origin space of the blast, and LoS is then traced from that origin. If I've been narcissus'd, does having LoS to only the Mesmerist mean I don't have line of sight to any spaces, and therefore can't throw a grenade at all?

Did not use Hypnotic Attraction at all, but that was mostly due to sitrep (gauntlet) and that I didn't really want to move the players closer to my CZ.

Overall I liked them quite a lot. Will use more

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one question I am pondering is whether a Mesmerist who isn't packing both tech optionals will find it difficult to build mirror images. memetic magnetism is good at it but is a recharge and also relies on everyone being packed closely enough to get more than one opportunity to regenerate an image. part of me thinks maybe hypnotic attraction could even be base kit, though I can see why "basically puppet systems" is a sometimes food on NPCs

vagrant grotto
# cursive plover I fielded two Mesmerists in today's session for a LL1 party: untemplated T1, Hyp...

Thank you for the feedback! The “start with [defensive feature] turned on” feedback has been a common one for a lot of PPG NPCs. Still on the fence about it for Mesmerist but it sounds like it worked well for your table.

NARCISSUS Override for me would mean that range+blast effects must be centered on the Mesmerist, if that helps. I may inquire after Rules Questions for that in case it pops up in official material

The intent for Mesmerist is that it falls back on default invade whenever it lacks access to the other tech attacks. Its current design fully intends that by enhancing all tech attacks to give a mirror image

Really glad you’re enjoying them! Thank you again for the feedback 😄

vagrant grotto
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So it sounds like I should instead restrict line of sight to the Mesmerist’s space, same for Prism’s gun

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
# vagrant grotto Dish, what is it

I’ve had my eye on it for a while- it’s this Manufacturer Template pack where they’re all designed to be “mercenary adjacent” templates

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The HORUS one gets its accuracy on targets that have more conditions than it

vagrant grotto
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Oh yeah was that Cornylius’s?

ashen crown
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Ye

sudden cosmos
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Every time I use a PPG NPC, sunzi

ashen crown
sudden cosmos
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Not in the opfor

ashen crown
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Oops

sudden cosmos
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I already hit them with a pre-adjustment anchor and the sunzi teleported it

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so

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So I can in fact tell you that a hatchet, knight, prism, occultist, and mesmerist gets pranked real bad with the blink anchor sunzi core power combo that sends them into a murder ball at the PDZ, but

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you know

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I don't think there's anything that can't be pranked by that

vagrant grotto
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That’s Sunzi for you I suppose yeah

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Recommendation: Ban Sunzi 😌

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I joke but yeah I agree with you

sudden cosmos
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Sunzi is gonna be on my "i'd prefer you not" list

ashen crown
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Wonder if an anti-teleport would be a fun Brigand or Anomaly feature lol

sudden cosmos
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Spatial Rend from anomaly

vagrant grotto
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Tbh I think I plan to ban Sunzi from all future playtests of my stuff

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Of like, stuff that uses Core Rules instead of my house rules

sudden cosmos
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Sunzi also stuffs mesmerist's hypnotic attraction

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🙃

cursive plover
sudden cosmos
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Duel + Narcissus Override is actually kinda funny

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
cursive plover
ashen crown
granite saddle
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mhm

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kinda what the "immune to immobilize" thing is for in the house rules rep

sudden cosmos
ashen crown
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I like Minotaur being the “immovable object” to.., most other frames’ “unstoppable force”

sudden cosmos
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It's putting a hat on a hat

ashen crown
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It also makes Internal Metafold Localized Maze more like a mini-Fomorian Frame

vagrant grotto
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Yeah no I could understand “immunity to teleportation” on Sunzi, maybe

ashen crown
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That’s basically Blink Anchor tho

vagrant grotto
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Valid, they could let Blink Anchor pull double duty

sudden cosmos
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Some takeaways. Vet Anomaly Hatchet with extrude knife and pull the snare is fucking gas. I like the Hatchet a lot. Lovely NPC. No notes.

vagrant grotto
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This makes me very happy to hear, thank you 😊

sudden cosmos
#

Knight got bullied out of relevance after mildly inconveniencing the sunzi for exactly half of one round. Statistically it seems fine. Flavorfully I understand why it can't get out of a duel it started but getting sent 20 spaces away and into the genghis-enkidu-godroll mimic gun pegasus deathball made it mostly irrelevant. Still tied them for a round and a half as they chewed through 3 structure.

Only thoughts are to maybe give it a clause where a duel can end if it's target leaves sensors? Not traditionally likely since the duel target can't run away, but it getting sent to Australia and losing all its kit felt a little bad. Could also lead to emergent gameplay where other characters try to drag their ally and/or the knight away to end the duel.

vagrant grotto
#

I'll admit this is rubbing up against my "don't balance against Sunzi" sensibilities but I'll keep it in mind. To a degree, this is just players playing smart and getting rewarded for it

sudden cosmos
#

That was the same thought I had, but figured I'd float it anyways in case there were other instances where the duel target managed to run away and had a similar end result.

#

Prisim seemed okay for the round and a half it existed. Again, trolled by sunzi warp rifling the projector without knowing the effect and then sending the Prisim to Anchorage.

#

Seemed okay! I rather like the idea of it being able to sit in the backline on a large map and cause problems from afar because the projectors are what's causing the mess.

#

Probably would have taken shattered glass as an optional if it weren't for the thing you can probably guess at this point

sudden cosmos
#

Mesmerist felt like it had an issue that a similar melee tech attacker archetype I poked at once had. Reconus pointed out that if its baseline tech actions don't recharge, all that's left for its gimmick to work is NPC fragsig and NPC fragsig kinda honks. Thematically I like what it's doing and the idea of a frail defender using invis to not get deleted. It just kinda struggled to do anything apart from mildly inconveniencing the sunzi by buddying up with the knight. Codespike felt like filler and left an odd tension that left it gapclosing, getting the single shard it could accumulate stripped, then they'd just keep beating it to death.

#

My main observation is that it's got the sauce in its optionals, but those are so tightly limited in terms of what can be taken that it felt constrained. The thought I had over and over was "if this was an elite, this thing would be so damn cool" but it mostly spent the fight at odds with its own kit.

#

except when it hit the worldkiller with Bottom of the Well, which was delightful (for me. Not for him). Diabolical ability. Gave him the 'itis so bad he forgot stabilizing could clear condis for a minute.

vagrant grotto
#

I think I may lean into giving it a few mirror images to start, so that it's refreshing them with Invade to tide it over

sudden cosmos
#

And Occultist was functionally irrelevant. Everyone getting sent to the other side of the map paired with its low speed meant it got to the action just in time for it to be the only one left. A solo vet occultist does not make a challenging foe

sudden cosmos
#

The overwatch subtheme it's got in general feels kinda underwhelming.

vagrant grotto
#

Point of Codespike’s jam is to dissuade walking away and respect its threat, it’s just an assist tool

#

If it just made a mirror image, it wouldn’t mean much (they were escaping from the Mesmerist anyway, not fighting it)

#

It’s part of the tank catch-22 it’s trying to make

sudden cosmos
#

I'm not sure it's a compelling choice. Maybe it's just this team, but when the mirage said "focus on me" they said "okay bet" and killed it.

#

It doesn't feel like there's much of a catch-22 to it unless the difficult decision they're making is "taking a turn to swat this fly"

vagrant grotto
#

That’s a valid choice I guess

#

I mean yeah the difficult decision is between engaging the Invisible Mesmerist or going after something else

#

Swing and whiff vs swing better elsewhere and take heat

sudden cosmos
#

Given the danger of the handling the invisible threat (missing) subsequently removes the invis, they didn't seem to ever treat it like that.

vagrant grotto
#

Stand and fight in the Mesmerist’s ideal range or risk a nasty overwatch

#

Then yeah I’m gonna add a baseline of 2 mirror images on spawn

sudden cosmos
#

Then my question is "what does it do when you're in its ideal range that's a threat?"

#

That said, if it was an elite, hoo nelly.

vagrant grotto
#

It stabs you, repeatedly? 🤷

sudden cosmos
#

That one extra optional and more econ to keep images up would probably have it singing.

vagrant grotto
#

The heat on the rapier maybe isn’t threatening vs a Genghis

sudden cosmos
#

It isn't threatening against anyone on this team, really.

vagrant grotto
#

Well, oof then

#

Maybe it’s just a bad matchup

sudden cosmos
#

Even with the weeniest reactors in the game and no engineering investment, that's still quite a few turns swinging away to get the heat up to a point where it'd feel concerning (at T1, at least)

#

Barring some hacker types or more support oriented players, their instinct (and also mine, were I to face off against one) was to try and DPS race it.

vagrant grotto
#

Aight, noted then

#

As long as it's forcing players to spend more actions killing it than they would killing its buddies, it's at least doing its job

#

but if players think the race is the best bet, then yeah I'll do what StarsofCarcosa did earlier and give it 2 images to start

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

So I’m not saying you should do this… but do you think adding something Blink Anchor adjacent to Reality Anchor or Lodestone would be worth it? Something to stop ally teleports for those protected by it

#

If I play the Anchor with a Sunzi or some forced teleport in the pickup game I may be able to say something more definitive in that regard but this is just me looking at it and thinking “hm. This doesn’t punish Sunzi enough” lol

vagrant grotto
#

low-key thought Reality Anchor already did but oh well

south cypress
#

combat is going well

image.png
#

Grapplescrapper is excellent

vagrant grotto
#

I did not have "Vulture generates enormous amounts of hate" on my Bingo card haha 😅

#

if anything I would've expected Anchor and Occultist to do that

#

glad Grapplescrapper feels good!

ashen crown
#

Actually now that I think about it I’m having a hard time understanding what that aspect of it does. Could just be a me thing

sudden cosmos
sudden cosmos
#

Very vanilla operator "okay so it's a laser. cool"

#

"that's it? Just a laser? Okay."

vagrant grotto
#

the focused blind didn't faze them? hrm

south cypress
vagrant grotto
#

unrelated, but revising some naming schemes of Kensei, how do we feel about these:

HF Kinetic Saber -> Resonance Saber
Charged Profile -> Machspeed Profile
Gunmetal Sheathe -> Mass Driver Sheathe

south cypress
#

Moloch Drone was positioned outside the cloud so they couldn't really do anything to it

vagrant grotto
# 
MORTAL DRAW (ULTRA)
Trait, Recharge 6+

If the Kensei takes the final NPC turn of the round, for that turn the MACHSPEED profile of its RESONANCE SABER may attack characters in Burst 3. All characters hit by the attack are SHREDDED until the end of the scene.
vagrant grotto
south cypress
vagrant grotto
#

I haven't heard much about Moloch drone so this is useful, thanks

south cypress
#

This was the encounter, so it may have been partially that Operator grunts are very mean

image.png
ashen crown
south cypress
#

But they really didn't like an Immobilize inside a field of restricted LoS

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
# sudden cosmos Even with the weeniest reactors in the game and no engineering investment, that'...

idk, if it's performing the most basic gameplay 4 heat per turn (ignoring its taunt hack) is pretty decent heat-gen. Plus it makes Overcharge more dangerous- the risk being less "oh it's gonna overheat me" and more "oh it's made my options more narrow". THis is me acting in a whiteroom though, but when I've ran NPCs that have just a little bit of extra forced heat in their kit they've almost consistently stressed at least one of my PCs so that's something imo

vagrant grotto
#

it also sounds like they thought it was quick despite being Speed 4

south cypress
#

Yeah OppSal + Grapplescrapper was an incredible combo. Just kept it within range 5 of Engi/Occultist Drones and allies

vagrant grotto
#

hm. Fuck

south cypress
ashen crown
south cypress
#

I think the Vulture got off like 6 Magpies throughout the scene. 4 for Overshield, 1 to recharge the Dandelion, and one to repair the Dandelion after an unfortunate Structure. It Stressed itself just from its self heat

vagrant grotto
#

here's the big question: Did the players win or lose?

south cypress
#

They won

vagrant grotto
#

they won, but suffered through it, got it

south cypress
#

It was close though. They weren't going to be able to do the objective, so they had to do it by killing all my enemies, and it took until round 6

#

Moloch lockdown on Escort was big

vagrant grotto
#

I might reduce Moloch's range to adjacency, or 2 then

ashen crown
# vagrant grotto ``` MORTAL DRAW (ULTRA) Trait, Recharge 6+ If the Kensei takes the final NPC tu...

That's a way better way of approaching the "play with Ultra activations" thing than I had in mind- technically not Ultra exclusive with the way it works but it combos almost exclusively with having at least 2 activations per round. Plus the Recharge allows the Kensei to play a "high risk" game where if it hasn't recharged after it's first activation, it can wait to see if it recharges on the second at the end of the round to be brutal. Brilliant!

south cypress
#

Okay I went back and counted. The Vulture actually did 8 Magpies before dying in Round 5. One Quick + one Reaction every round for the first 4 rounds. It took 1 Stress and maxed its heat cap on its second and gave out 30 Overshield, repaired its Dandelion, and recharged it twice

vagrant grotto
#

okay that's way too much

#

I need to add a sensible cap on Opportunistic Salvage or nix it entirely

south cypress
#

It was T2, notably

#

To be fair, there was an Occultist and an Engineer feeding it drone casualties

#

And a PC's Hive Drone got blown up

vagrant grotto
#

Giving OppSalv Limited 1 feels cute? use it once and then have to refresh it honestly

south cypress
#

Oh yeah that could be neat

ashen crown
#

Alternatively give it recharge

vagrant grotto
#

you're not gonna believe this

ashen crown
#

Oh I meant Magpie

#

ANd have OppSalv adhere to that restriction

vagrant grotto
#

ahhhhhh got it. Yeah no I'm not adding recharge to Magpie, I don't think

ashen crown
#

Like "If you use Magpie on your turn, OppSalv goes off the table, and vice versa"

vagrant grotto
#

1/round I could see though? maybe

ashen crown
#

Then I agree on the Limited 1 on OppSalv, it's cute

south cypress
#

Oh also Occultist gets soft countered by Swarm Body in a way I didn't think about. Can't really put Flock Drones next to it

vagrant grotto
#

I'm okay with that I think

#

How was the Range 5 on Vulture's Magpie + Grapplescrapper + OppSalv? Could it be reasonably reduced to like, 3?

ashen crown
#

Swarm Body needs it

south cypress
vagrant grotto
#

I want Vulture to be a "Frontline Support" so its durability should still be high to account for it. I mentioned it a while back but it has roughly the same survivability as a Support (barring granting itself Overshield)

south cypress
#

I positioned the comp pretty tightly, but being able to OppSal a Drone at range 5 to provide OS to an ally that's also at range 5 felt like a lot

#

The players did think that the fiction of the Vulture was cool. Especially how it could gut individual systems on still-alive allies

#

Broke the Anchor's Omninet Grounding to give it Overshield when it became apparent that it was going to die to hp damage soon, and the players thought it was neat that it could do that

vagrant grotto
#

Glad the Vulture's flavor is a win, at least

#

hmmmmm Omninet Grounding is an invincible trait though. unless you meant Lodestone itself?

#

(Maybe Omninet Grounding should be a System though)

#

aight, Vulture's extended ranges are getting nerfed from 5 to 3, Magpie's OS is getting nerfed from 4/6/8 to 3/5/7, and OppSalv is getting Limited 1

#

reinforce that this thing should be closer to the frontline, and keep OppSalv from being a snowball machine

south cypress
vagrant grotto
#

I have also just realized that my change to Diviner's darts makes it very hard to reposition the MOLOCH Drone

#

I changed it to be an involuntary move to avoid Overwatch shenanigans, but now MOLOCH can't drag shit around with itself

#

overall this has been a very helpful day of playtest reports though lol

rare jay
#

I’m very tempted to run a playtest oneshot to give them a spin before I bring them into my main campaign

ashen crown
#

Do you think giving Reality Anchor to my "oops many Lurkers" Anchor would muddy the Rebake Lurker data too much?

south cypress
#

I feel like Vulture's Dandelion could also work well if it had Loading, since the self heat from Magpie can make the Vulture Stabilize eventually anyway

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

I don't think that giving it an extra teleportation target is outta line

ashen crown
#

Considering Kai is testing out Lurkers having range 10 Shroud deployment range and the purpose of this combat is to test "what does using multiple lurkers do?"

vagrant grotto
#

but if you're worried, maybe wait until a later fight

#

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

#

yeah no leave the Anchor at home for this one

ashen crown
#

I'm not gonna leave it at home but I'm not gonna give it Reality ANchor either since that's what I was concerned about

#

Imo I can just think of it as like. A "weird Goliath" for all intents and purposes

#

Since Lodestone has a sorta similar effect to Crush Targeting

#

And I wanna test the ANchor

#

Null Grav Motivator got me excited

south cypress
#

Oh also, this only narrowly missed coming up: is OppSal supposed to be able to proc when someone expends a Restock Drone?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Y'all know any good Retrograde skeletons to use for Anchor and Vulture?

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

yeah @ashen crown this is probably gonna be the Veteran trait

ashen crown
#

How did I inspire that?

vagrant grotto
#

I forget, someone mentioned this......

ashen crown
#

lol

vagrant grotto
#

I keep forgetting 😩

ashen crown
#

I thought I did because you pinged me specifically and I was going into my mind palace and thinking "what did I do?"

vagrant grotto
#

okay fuck mb

vagrant grotto
#

It's a Good Idea™

inland pilot
#

"end them rightly, now with gaussian acceleration"

vagrant grotto
# 
POMMEL LAUNCHER (VETERAN)
Trait
The RESONANCE SABER gains the following profile:

Pommel Launch: Thrown 5, Knockback 3/4/5
[Threat 1][5/7/9 Kinetic]
This profile can only be used while the weapon is sheathed. After being thrown, this weapon cannot be sheathed until it is retrieved.
south cypress
ashen crown
#

I wanted it to be an actual mech with HORUS flavor tbh, so I used… one of the snakes for it can’t recall the name

vagrant grotto
#

Zahhak or Grootslang?

ashen crown
#

Do not remmeber the name- the one with eyes

vagrant grotto
#

Grootslang

ashen crown
#

Anyway, 3 untemplated vultures all with Trash to Treasure + Magnet Bomb (2 of which are reinforcements)… is that a bad idea?

vagrant grotto
#

depends on how much overhead you're comfy with

#

but I don't think that's out of line

ashen crown
#

Well one is an active and one is a passive, and my plan is to never reinforce duplicates to reduce my overhead

#

So idk

#

My main worry is “what’s the point of Limited 2 if there’s 3 of these mofos?”

vagrant grotto
#

the biggest issues reported earlier had to do with OppSalv's action economy and the range of all 3 of its Magpie-related features

ashen crown
#

And while Trash to Treasure isn’t inherently terrible with the overhead, giving those vultures 2 optionals could be overwhelming

#

I probably shouldn’t worry about it I suppose, that’s like 1 extra active ability and a funny bonus to Magpie

#

Main reason I want Trash to Treasure is to use it on Rebake Strider’s spare parts

#

If uses it while alive, then the Vulture can steal it off its corpse, get another use, and continue the cycle lol

#

I know this is a pickup game but I have like… 5 fear that I’ve gone too far

vagrant grotto
#

this might be a lot to track tbh

ashen crown
#

How so?

vagrant grotto
#

Strider and TtT and Lurkers and Anchor and....

#

like I do worry that Trash to Treasure may be going too far with what you have previously presented

ashen crown
#

Yeaaah, you’re probably right. I’ll drop it sure

#

I’m going really low on templates to try and compensate but still

vagrant grotto
#

Alright, feeling surprisingly good about the Kensei Veteran + Ultra traits

#

I'm gonna commit to Mass Driver Sheathe, even if Gunmetal is a lil stronger

#

otherwise, today's been a productive bunch of bugfixes

  • Mesmerist is getting 2 Mirror Images on deployment
  • Occultist's Moloch drone is getting stubbier arms
  • Vulture is getting Magpie range nerfs + reeling in OppSalv
  • Kensei is getting Vet+Ultra features, some improved wording, and fresh names for equipment
ashen crown
#

I can implement the range nerf for my Pickup- what are you thinking for it?

vagrant grotto
#

Note to any Kensei testers: v1.7.0 Kensei Charged profile is missing the AP tag, big sorry

#

because I've been a fool and committing directly to main, I'm gonna wait to bugfix that until next minor release

#

(Note to self: Valk, your clever setup of using patch increments to bugfix the LCP only works if you keep your new features in a feature branch)

ashen crown
#

Question about Null-Grav Motivator btw- if it were destroyed (or the Anchor were destroyed), would you say the zones created would disappear?

#

It doesn't say that currently so as is it just lasts forever, so I just want to make sure

vagrant grotto
#

yes

#

Current concerns I'm pondering in the bug tracker:

  • How does the Napalm's STC's inflicted heat feel at Tier 2/3? (It's currently 2/3/4 Heat)
  • How does Zealot's Zeal Overshield feel in terms of durability? Too much, too little, or just right?
  • How durable does the Torrent feel?
  • How durable does the Vulture feel, especially if Magpie's Overshield is on the table?
  • How does the Vulture perform without pre-placed wrecks?
  • How does the Vulture feel to play when focusing on its base kit?
vagrant grotto
inland pilot
vagrant grotto
#

yeah lol it's incredibly common and I need to figure out if I need to make it a dedicated Vulture Feature or not lol

#

I guess logically the biggest issue with a corpse-picker support is that if there's corpses, there's usually not allies leftover to support lol

inland pilot
#

obviously it should be the veteran trait /j

#

but yeah no, it def feels like one of those subconcious reads

#

"ah this is the wreck NPC, it needs wrecks, so i should give it wrecks to start"

#

i can't blame them but i can giggle about it being frequent enough to muddle the testing

south cypress
#

Yeah it was cool. Also there were no pre-placed wrecks on the map today, and the Vulture still cannibalized 3 wrecks of allies that it outlived, plus several drones

vagrant grotto
#

What's currently feeling good:

  • Capacitor, generally; Arc Feedback is an odd duck of a feature but otherwise it's not bringing the class down
  • Hatchet: Very happy with feedback on this one
  • Knight: Everyone seems to gravitate towards this one, usually satisfied reports
  • Mesmerist with optionals: The tech-action optionals seem to help fill out its kit well
  • Occultist: When a Sunzi isn't wreaking havoc on the map, this seems to be resonating with folks
  • Prism: Despite my worries, this seems to be playing fine?
  • EXTRUDE KNIFE: KNIFE
  • Brigand: Grav Amp sounds like it's been a hit 😄

What I'm hoping to hear more about, beyond the "bug reports":

  • Anchor: I'm perpetually anxious about Lodestone. Looking forward to Null-Grav motivator reports
  • Ghost: It's been a minute, and it's seen some minor Heat-related changes in the base kit but no reports
  • Napalm: It just got a fresh batch of changes, so I'm eager to hear how they're working out
  • Prism: This fucker is still fiddly and continues to concern me lol
  • Anomaly: This will probably be a permanent fixture on this list lol
  • Veteran & Ultra traits: This will probably be only a slightly less permanent fixture on the list lol
granite saddle
#

Also, strictly because of my own personal biases, I want more knockback on that thing. Even to the point of lowering the damage if you have to. That's just me though, it's fine like this really

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Hey Valk you’ve run a several playtest pickups- got any advice for what build restrictions to apply and resources to restrict, as well as important info to convey+ask for in the ad?

vagrant grotto
#

My advice is to purposefully restrict what you think will taint your results; if you wanna ban Sunzi or Superheavy Mounting because it’ll fuck with balance in unintended ways, do so

#

Convey the pitch and what to build and how to approach the game; it’s good to get folks to build as if they’re building for a long term game/mission instead of just a One Shot where they can meme

#

(They can meme as characters but the combat builds shouldn’t be meme builds)

#

Set up a form like the one I had as a way to screen folks. I include experience questions (important when dealing with onboarding and drastic house rules) as well as vibe check questions about what they like about Lancer and such

#

You can impose a One Shot resource restriction of CP + 1d6 OC (or 1 OC and no CP) but honestly just telling folks to treat it like part of a larger mission does wonders

ashen crown
#

Good to know good to know- I dunno if I wanna ban the common culprits of Lycan, Gorgon, and Sunzi due to a. The sheer volume of enemies making shutting down enemies fast extremely valuable without shutting my gameplan down, and b. The ways I can see Sunzi’s teleport bullying backfiring against a bunch of Lurkers and a couple of Anchors (thanks for Defensive Shroud Kai)

#

I’ll build the ad and see

vagrant grotto
#

Honestly haven’t seen Lycan yet so I can’t judge its power

ashen crown
#

I’ve played with one in a one shot (a Behemoth Brawl), and it’s really good at one shotting untemplated enemies but is also extremely vulnerable to damage and heat

#

When it Goes Loud, before then it’s a tank

vagrant grotto
#

I do think bans can tend to be kneejerk at times, so my advice is to ban stuff that you’re certain will aggressively taint results

ashen crown
#

Yeah that’s what I was thinking, so I don’t think I’ll impose any bans. Might do that “either you get overcharge or your core power” rule too

vagrant grotto
#

I’ll note that for some builds, it’s a boon to start at d6 OC

#

so imposing “honor rules” instead can be more effective

#

This is why the vibe check is important haha

ashen crown
#

Hm yeah. Then I guess I can just do that

vagrant grotto
#

I think Shaka also did “only one player at random has CP” but yeah

ashen crown
#

Oh I do like that

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

All good, take your time!

placid glacier
#

so. something to note this party has both a Lannie and a BT/technophile player- so burn didn't last long enough to actually force saves but it did change how the player's turns went

Anyway still midway through the encounter but the first Napalm got killed by the end of it so I think I can give something

DM Side

Napalm was able to use the Firefly Drone twice in it's lifetime, I was hesitant on the preventing LoS outside the area since I thought it was gonna encourage players out of the blast zone so I didn't let it linger for longer than a turn, I'll try playing around leaving it around for longer with my second Napalm but I'm getting off topic now.

Anyway- first time the more impactful effect was the LoS blocker, turning off the Tortuga's Sensor range for a turn. Explosion was less impactful as the ones in aoe were either burn immune (the lannie) or succeeded on the AGI save (the tortuga). Second time worked a bit better with the drone instead being popped by a Pyro leading to the funny 8 burn on the Calendula I screenshotted. Though, yeah, immedietly after the lannie came to white wash it so it didn't cause save.

The Catapult did it's job of scaring the party with the big range and alongside a Bastion discouraged clumping up around the Lannie too much. First time it landed half of its flames, the second time it flubbed entirely.

Long Burn and Adhesive didn't do much as. well Lannie and BT/Technophile Tortuga. so I unfortunately don't have as much to say there

#

Player Side

Tortuga

I mean doesnt really feel too special from a pyro so far aside from the drone and the flamethrower with a kjdfidjillion range

I mean its for sure threatening by being able to burn alone
but unless you make us face one with more than 1 structure it feels (at least personally) not that much different so far what you can expect

Lannie

It did feel kinda squishy compared to its offensive threat

Burn 8 is terrifying no matter how you slice it
I had to abandon my spot defending the control point to bail [the Calendula] out from flash-frying which imo is really good tension

Pegasus

definitely scary for sure, i dread fighting one with more staying power
the drone is really funny too

vagrant grotto
# placid glacier so. something to note this party has both a Lannie and a BT/technophile player- ...

This is interesting to think about yeah: Drone encouraging folks to scatter is actually a little anti-synergistic with its AOE weapon

I’m glad the players like the tension and felt the burn needed to be respected. Getting folks to dedicate actions to clear burn means the Controller aspect is working well

Thank you for the feedback! Overall, would you and your table want to use a Napalm again in the future?

placid glacier
#

I mean it feels like a nice alternative to running a bombard so I'll probably break it out when the flavor of the encounter fits it again

#

and the party seems open to facing one again since no one said anything felt too jank

#

but yeah- the Firefly drone anti-synergy was something I was iffy about since first reading about it but I didn't wanna pass judgement until I saw it in action

vagrant grotto
#

It definitely leans more towards area-controller toolset

#

It just enhances the existing dynamic of “don’t group up” vs AOE

placid glacier
#

fair dos

#

with the reinforcement Napalm I'll try leaving it right on the control point to see how the party plays around it

dapper goblet
#

Yo valk - is Ghost still supposed to be targetable while bonded? Feels like if it is they will just kind of die with 4 hp and 8 evasion

#

planning on structuring a combat around a couple of veteran ghosts and want to make sure i'm using them right

vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
#

ah

#

see again I fail to read

vagrant grotto
#

it can target stuff while intangible but not the other way around

dapper goblet
#

makes sense. tyty

#

will be running a combat with a couple of vet ghosts as a first encounter of a campaign either tuesday or a week from, hope to report back with data

vagrant grotto
#

looking forward to it!

muted blaze
#

Oh forgot to mention valk, in 2-3 sessions time ill be running a commander zealot so I can give more feedback on 'em :P

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

I have a feeling the amber phantom with 4d6 energy overkill is gonna make short work of their defensive traits 😛

vagrant grotto
#

mm, rip

muted blaze
#

But hey, at least ill pop their invis

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Amber Phantom does yes

ashen crown
#

Ah I thought they meant Zealot

vagrant grotto
#

Rearranging some of the base kit of the Zealot. The Engagement/Reaction ignoring turned out to be pretty damn strong, so I'm experimenting leaving that only in Fanatical Charge (right now Fanatical charge is unchanged)

Zeal
Trait, Overshield, 2 Heat (Self), Protocol
The Zealot emanates an area of fervent energy affecting characters in SENSORS and line of sight:
• Allies in the area have their weapon attacks gain KNOCKBACK 1 and AP against targets in the area.
• Upon activation, the Zealot gains OVERSHIELD equal to the number of allies in the area.
This area lasts until the start of the Zealot’s first turn each round or until the Zealot is STUNNED, JAMMED, overheated, or destroyed.

Emberlight Nexus
Main Nexus, Smart, +2/+4/+6
[Cone 5][1/2/3 Burn]
This weapon ignores INVISIBLE and doesn’t affect allies. Characters that take Burn from this weapon lose INVISIBLE and HIDDEN and can’t regain either until they clear all Burn.

Fanatical Charge
System, Overshield, Shield, Recharge 6+, Quick Tech
The Zealot flies up to its SPEED. Allies within ZEAL’s area at any point during this movement may move up to their SPEED +2 as a reaction, ignoring engagement and reactions. Allies that end this movement in ZEAL’s area gain OVERSHIELD 2/3/4.
ashen crown
#

Good division of abilities I kept forgetting about just Zeal’s effects

vagrant grotto
#

Still considering changing how Zeal's self-Overshield works

# 
Trait, Overshield, 2 Heat (Self), Protocol
The Zealot emanates an area of fervent energy, gaining OVERSHIELD equal to the number of allies within its SENSORS.

In addition, allied weapon attacks made within the Zealot’s SENSORS gain KNOCKBACK 1 and AP against targets within the same area. This effect lasts until the start of the Zealot’s first turn each round or until the Zealot is STUNNED, JAMMED, overheated, or destroyed.

any better? (EDIT: reformatted to group the lasting effect with the duration)

ashen crown
#

I think so, with only 2 effects (one upon activation and one persisting) it feels unneeded to have bullets

vagrant grotto
# 
Fanatical Charge
System, Overshield, Shield, Recharge 5+, Quick Tech
The Zealot and allies within ZEAL’s area may move up to their SPEED +2, ignoring difficult terrain, engagement, and reactions. Allies that end this movement in ZEAL’s area gain OVERSHIELD 2/3/4.

Letting the Zealot benefit from ignoring Engagement and Reactions, while also letting all beneficiaries ignore difficult terrain (plus reduced recharge from 6 to 5)

#

I guess the issue with this take is that it won't help allies initially outside of Zeal's area

#

Rally the Righteous is looking more and more redundant with FanCharge now

ashen crown
#

Maybe you could give them a benefit that isn’t Overshield?

#

Clearing Slowed and Prone is still very useful

vagrant grotto
#

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Replacement for Rally the Righteous that’s a Melee Weapon. It can be thrown, and Zeal emanates from it instead of the Zealot while it’s waiting to be retrieved. When retrieved, it gives a buff

#

Ehhhhhh maybe not

ashen crown
#

Maybe a defensive tool for the Zealot?

#

Or just focusing down the condition clear angle of Rally the Righteous (condition shutdown is the best way to make NPCs worse at holding down a point) forgot it had something for that

#

Or if you’re into the idea of a second weapon (the Zealot does lack direct striker optionals to be frank) you could always bring back ye old Burst weapon

#

Or just do what 2/rest supports have and give it a Latch Drone/Investiture/Everest Core boost equiv

vagrant grotto
#

Was initially thinking along the lines of “freedom of movement” again but maybe this could be something

#

Or that’s the rider on Rally instead of Overshield

ashen crown
#

May wanna rename it if you wanna avoid a Skirmisher situation but not necessary

#

Iirc DC 3 has Invigorate as a name (EDIT: this is correct I checked it)

muted blaze
#

I have a name idea

#

"Skirmisher"

vagrant grotto
rare jay
#

Made a zealot token a while back

vagrant grotto
#

Okay folks, I'm settling on some more final-ish names for Kensei features:

Sword -> Resonance Saber
Charged profile -> Thunderclap profile
Gunmetal Sheathe -> "Minuano" Mass Driver Sheathe
Deft Parry -> Mach Parry

#

hmmmmm I thought I was clever by adding a nickname to the Mass Driver Sheathe but in effect it's making some descriptions that reference the Sheathe a little wordy

granite saddle
#

Also, not big on "thunderclap" profile
It might just be me, but it's hard for something with "clap" in it to feel as menacing as it should be.

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

Sonicboom is unfortunately a reference some people would have, but those first two sound good yeah !

vagrant grotto
#

or Supersonic

#

unless the concern is over a particular blue hedgehog

granite saddle
granite saddle
#

but yeah Thunderbolt and Thunderstrike are my favorite among the lot

#

do with that what you will

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

After looking up Minuano, and keeping in mind your earlier remarks on this one, either "Minuano" Sheathe or Mass Driver Sheathe work

#

You can get away with just "Minuano" Sheathe imo if you include something about it in the flavor text

vagrant grotto
#

Mass Driver Sheathe sounded better than "railgun sheathe" or "coilgun sheathe" or "gauss sheathe" or "magnetic accelerator sheathe"

#

if there's another option beyond flavor text or Mass Driver I'm all ears

granite saddle
#

Unfortunate that "Mag Sheathe" brings up another idea to mind, that one would have been good.

#

"Power Sheathe"/"Powered Sheathe" work too i guess

#

"Explosive Sheathe" works, "Ejector Sheathe" works, but a little less imo...
If you wanna get stupid, you could even consider SwordGun™ ! (don't)

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

Not as big of a fan as the other two I mentionned, but yeah it works about as well as Supersonic would

muted blaze
#

IK it's already been mentioned but I don't think I could take thunderclap profile seriiously lmao

vagrant grotto
#

Thunderclap is gone

#

leaning towards Thunderstrike, but that means Resonance feels weird. I think I might rename the saber too. "Windstorm Saber" maybe

dapper goblet
#

Mmm maybe lean into the terishima adjacent bit

#

Thunder stance?

#

Might break some phrasing

vagrant grotto
#

mm no I'd put that elsewhere

#

Windstorm Saber, "Minuano" Saber, idk

#

Resonance wasn't resonating with me so yeah

ashen crown
#

If you wanna swap theming you could do “Tachyon Strike” lol (jest)

vagrant grotto
#

lol, no

#

"Minuano" Kinetic Saber?

ashen crown
#

Sticking with the Lightning theme- Static Strike has nice alliteration at least, even if Static is a bit of a weaker word

vagrant grotto
#

Static makes some thematic sense in standing still yeah. I think I'm gonna lean into Thunder here since I'm leaning into Mach Parry

ashen crown
#

If you wanted a cool name for an optional that’s on the Lightning Speed Theme, “Heaven to Earth” is fun

#

(Like Lightnjng falling from the sky, or “heaven”, to Earth)

muted blaze
#

Thundercrash profile?

ashen crown
#

IMO when it comes to weapon profiles, I think “Keeping it Simple” is better, because when one is just better there’s no ambiguity when you hear it’s “charged”

#

Meanwhile if you say it’s in “Thunderbolt Profile” people will still Freudian slip it as “charged” or wonder what that means later when they forget

vagrant grotto
#

valid

muted blaze
#

I like mach parry

vagrant grotto
#

that one was thankfully an easy substitution

#

Gonna go with

  • "Minuano" Kinetic Saber + Charged profile
  • Mass Driver Sheathe
  • Mach Parry
#

Is this anything:

Rally the Righteous
System, Recharge 5+, Quick Tech
Allies affected by ZEAL clear SLOWED, stand up from PRONE, and are treated as one SIZE larger for GRAPPLE, RAM, and engagement until the start of the Zealot’s next turn.
#

Edited to also affect Engagement

static kernel
#

mixing discrete and timed effects like that is.....weird imo

vagrant grotto
# 
Rally the Righteous
System, Recharge 5+, Quick Tech
Allies affected by ZEAL clear SLOWED and stand up from PRONE. They are treated as one SIZE larger for GRAPPLE, RAM, and engagement until the start of the Zealot’s next turn.
#

Better?

static kernel
#

yeah that works. wait, if it affects engagement does that mean the range at which an enemy is considered Engaged increases as well?

#

or is it just for the purposes of 'who stops who'?

vagrant grotto
#

purposes of who stops who

#

nobody's size is actually increasing here, this isn't Rita Repulsa

static kernel
#

although.... thonk

vagrant grotto
rare panther
#

Is the Occultist's 'Call From Below' intentionally designed to be useable without line of sight or is there a line of sight clause hiding somewhere in the core rules that isn't stated?

vagrant grotto
rare panther
#

ah, there it is. Thank yews!

vagrant grotto
#

With #1359607476001050634 just come out, it got me thinking about my old ideas for alternative Lancer campaign structures… and how daunting I’d find running a long-term Lancer campaign

But I think I also realized that, to a degree, this dread is why I’m making these NPCs, optional rules, and interesting objectives. If I think that running Lancer for that long would drive me up the wall, then yeah I’d find as many ways to make combat comfier for me as possible

granite saddle
#

Remember how I keep saying I want to use these for my personal campaign ?
Yeah it's that exactly, same.

untold vault
# vagrant grotto With <#1359607476001050634> just come out, it got me thinking about my old ideas...

I would be really interested in someone developing a robust hex or point crawl system for lancer for this exact reason. I generally avoid the mercenary company schtick because i feel like i have played that story in mech games a million times before, but agree that it gives a really versatile and varied experience since you're potentially hoping from planet to planet with life of different situations and factions

#

It plays out like an episodic narrative rather than a single epic saga, which makes a lot of the long term narrative worries a lot less pronounced

#

I'm sure it's possible to just yoink a point crawl system out of an existing ttrpg but ideally id want a setting specific version of it

static kernel
#

i'm planning on adapting the blood money rules to a 'coalition' mechanic where you take on jobs from different factions in a unified front, I think blood money as presented is definitely flexible enough to easily hack into a different framework

#

i do need to decide how i'm going to handle money but that's kind of a complicated question narratively too

minor crest
#

i think you can get away with just calling it some generic resource instead of money

#

"we have 15000 tons of scrap to turn into gear"

untold vault
#

You've got a mobile gms schedule 3 printer but it's tweaked to ingest general use nanites as an input. It can function identically to a standard printer but can only use the nanites as an input (your limited resource/money)

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

Thinking about running another LL6 game this <t:1753552804:F>

Any potential players here for that or the day after?

granite saddle
#

I should be good for the 26th yea
Maybe less available for the 27th though.

#

If you'll have me again of course, wouldn't want to poison the playtest data well

vagrant grotto
#

Happy to have repeat players tbh

#

Though yeah sampling bias is on my mind? But like, I’d rather have folks who I know and are open to my work

#

Thinking I’m gonna push v1.8 tonight

#

But we’ll see

sudden cosmos
#

27th yes. 26th is busy

vagrant grotto
#

Mm okay leaning towards 27th then

#

26th may be my chores day

sudden cosmos
#

If it's gonna happen and I'm on the list, I'll just re-use Chat for prep simplicity

granite saddle
#

It did perform quite well.

sudden cosmos
#

Much as I wanna go in with a Worldkiller or Amber Phantom build

sudden cosmos
#

I was hoping to critfish for prones but critfishing with OpCal works just as well

muted blaze
#

Gl with playtest stuff 🫡

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Update to 1.8!

itch.io
Update to 1.8.0!

1.8.1 Tweaked the Kensei with some improved naming conventions (ever imagine a sword in a railgun sheathe?), a replacement for Windstorm, and new Veteran and Ultra features! Minor buff to the Mesmeris...

#

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I immediately noticed a typo in Vulture's Opportunistic Salvage. whoops

#

it was documented in the changelog and included in the LCP, so I just pushed an updated PDF

ashen crown
#

Oh that released early

vagrant grotto
#

yeah I did enough changes to Kensei, Zealot, and Vulture to warrant a release

foggy wadi
vagrant grotto
foggy wadi
vagrant grotto
#

@shut yew I saw you mention wanting to run a scrim... but are you interested in playing in a playtest scrim? This Sunday, 2pm ET?

shut yew
#

ooooh yeah i very well might be

#

i gotta check with my wife to see if we have plans but i will let you know ASAP

twin escarp
#

Do multiple 'blind' effects stack? I'm fielding mesmermist/prism and wondering if narcissus overload plus diffraction beam would essentially shut down a character

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
#

Yeah like you can see either

vagrant grotto
#

you would be able to see both the Mesmerist AND the Prism yeah

#

that, or the more recent effect supercedes the older one

#

inventing my own status effect over here lol

twin escarp
#

Alright cool, I was just wondering. I'd be sticking to memetic magnetism/dimensional raid with diffraction beam as my no-bind of choice anyhow

twin escarp
#

Full opforce of occultist grunts sacrificing each other would be really funny

#

Scapegoating each other to protect the 1 occultist with a moloch drone up

viscid ingot
vagrant grotto
#

Yeah basically. PF has the Fascinated condition that does something similar

viscid ingot
#

Character receives both [Fascinated] and [Tunnel Vision], they now have the status [Cross-eyed]

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
#

It also infamously kind of sucks in pf2e cause it doesn't do a lot against most creatures and immediately ends on a hostile action being taken

#

while some of the things that apply it are treated with the gravitas of a condition like fleeing that genuinely shuts down a monster

south cypress
#

Fascinated is good for non-combat situations. It's a good condition to toss out any time you need a distraction, and methods of inflicting it are often AoEs

#

(Going by 1e since I don't really know pf2e very well, but by your description it's pretty much the same)

twin escarp
#

in pf2e noncombat npcs don't really make a lot of active checks so much as they have DCs, which isn't effected by the debuff to skill checks

#

the main benefit of fascinated is that they can't use concentrate actions unless they or their intended consequences are related to the subject of your fascination, which really screws over spellcasters cause almost all spells are concentrate

#

though the officiated Lie activity also has the concentrate trait so fascinating someone out of combat would raw mean if they lie about something they would need to include the subject of fascination in the lie somehow

#

but i've never actually seen someone run the Lie activity completely raw

vagrant grotto
#

I'm sure that there's some Illusionist/Enchanter build out there that can juice Fascinated, but yeah it's very limited in PF2e

Less so in PPG!

twin escarp
#

yeah :>

#

I've never seen an impressive Fascinated build but like I'd really appreciate if they added a mesmerist class or something that does something cool with it

#

On that note should I be worried about my tier 3 Supreme melee Limitless Heatcapless EXTRUDE KNIFE ultra veteran anomaly Mesmerist final boss with an elite prism lieutenant tpking my party because wow between 9 autocrit skirmishes a turn and teleport overwatches the party's forced to trigger I'm just a little worried for my poor ll12 goobers

vagrant grotto
#

you had me worried until you said LL12

#

I have a feeling it'll be fiiiiiiiiine

twin escarp
#

:)

twin escarp
#

Question

#

are the veteran/ultra locked optionals meant to be counted as veteran or ultra abilities or just optionals you can only put on a veteran or ultra

#

like are they class-specific template optionals or are they template-specific class optionals

#

actually i guess the fact the pdf has them listed under veteran and ultra makes it pretty clear they're template optionals

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
#

alright cool i was about to post my full oppforce but I was like "wait i think i fucked up here" goodbye my short cycle lance napalm and full-suite flight mesmerist

#

anyway here's the full oppforce I'm looking at.
LL12, budgeted for 6 players (though really it's 5 players + an allied companion they can swap out mid-fight between several characters), holdout sitrep

Initially deployed:

  • Veteran Commander Anomaly Scout (Expose Weakness, Umbral Interdiction, Viper's Speed, Legendary, Headshot, Press the Attack, Memento Culpa, 0 heatcap 0 stress)
  • Ultra Napalm (Corrosive Gel, Long Burn Catalyst, Firefly Drone, Incendiary Grenade, Skyburner, Hellfire Projector, Superior Reactor)
  • Anomaly Ghost (String Theory Marionette, Split Timestream, Dust and Echoes, size reduced to 1/2)
  • Brisk Pyro (Napalm Bomb, Explosive Jet)
  • Cataphract (Electrified Bola, Quadruped)
  • Zealot (Blazing Fervor, Martydom)
  • Torrent (Wash Away, Drown in Nanites)

Reinforcements, in order of planned deployment:

  • Engineer (Arsenal, Moboile Turrets)
  • Barricade (Extrudite, Seismic Repulsor)
  • Elite Anomaly Prism (Omniglass Barrier, Shardsplitter Shotgun, Mobile Projectors, Sympathetic Resonance, 0 heatcap 0 stress, size reduced to 1/2)
  • Ultra Veteran Anomaly Mesmerist (Mountebank's Jaunt, Hypnotic Attraction, Narcissus Override, Death by Glamour, Dimensional Raid, Evasive, Supreme Melee, Headshot, Acrobat, Limitless, Extrude Knife, 0 heatcap 0 stress, size reduced to 1/2)
  • Anomaly Ghost (Identical to initial force)
  • Torrent (Identical to initial force)
  • x4 Grunt Cataphract (otherwise identical to initial force)
ashen crown
#

Ya know, I think a Hatchet could make a convincing Mourning Cloak or Metalmark

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
#

I'm writing notes

muted blaze
#

With great difficulty

warm cedar
#

It's been a while since I've deployed a PPG NPC (I wanted to test the rebaked ones before) so I've put a Elite Torrent on my game yesterday as a mini boss. First activation, I moved it into threat 3 of a Caliban by inadvertance, killed by Cannibal shot, I couldn't test any of its weapon or traits.

RIP Elite Torrent
Round 4 - Round 4

#

(I really should nerf the Vanguard talent as a homerule)

#

(Or skill issue from me idk lol)

muted blaze
#

It has 20 HP at t1, how much damage did they do to kill 2 structure

warm cedar
#

(Flank attack with a HMG)

image.png
#

+1d6 bonus damage due to Slam trait of the Caliban.

#

And can't find the remaining damage on Foundry.

#

Yeah, the Cannibal did not kill it, but did most of the damage.

#

I forgot how precisely it got killed.

vagrant grotto
# warm cedar (Flank attack with a HMG)

Damn not even its soft cover can save it from Vanguard

I guess the only safe thing would’ve been to Storm Surge into the Caliban instead, since it’s self forced movement on the Torrent

#

I’m guessing that with those numbers it died to structure damage check

#

I’ll support nerfing Vanguard though lol

#

I’m just generally surprised though at how folks are reporting the Torrent as too squishy, just genuinely baffled (though if it’s eating two heavy shots of damage I guess it’s not that surprising???)

vagrant grotto
#

Going forward, I think the bigger concern I have for Torrent is Target Prioritization. It’s well known that any Normal Lancer NPC will get vaporized in a round with focus fire; I can’t and won’t solve that problem with PPG alone. But I think I’ll need to test normal Torrents alongside other NPCs that players hate to gauge how down bad they have it for the Torrent

#

If there’s an opfor full of Witches, Bombards, Torrents, and Knights, who gets the stick first

#

If the answer is always “the Torrents” then I know something’s gotta give

ashen crown
#

I can’t modify my playtest opfor again it’s getting ridiculous -_- (apropos on scope creep) (not a direct response)

#

Out of curiosity- was it ever considered to give Torrents a defensive trait akin to a Squad? Iirc the flavor of a Torrent is less a singular mech and more just a big swarm of nanites so it would track

vagrant grotto
#

I also considered Assault Armor a la OG Avenger but decided it was anti synergistic with its knockback gameplay

ashen crown
#

Would the "resistance against all but AOE damage" thing be a bad idea to return to if the Torrent proves too squishy in the future?

#

With respective HP nerfs ofc

vagrant grotto
#

It’s a thought I had yes, but right now I’m more interested in hearing how it plays at more tables

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

I do hope to use the Torrent... eventually. Act 1 of IGF just wrapped up so it'll be years before I run Lancer for my home table again (so pickup games and one shots will be saving me lol)

ashen crown
sudden cosmos
#

But also I've been doing these tests in a WW so I can literally just immob myself and tell a torrent to kick rocks

#

In normal, not WW, circumstances I'd probably still go for the witch and bombard first

muted blaze
sudden cosmos
#

Has the torrent gained a reputation for being menacing? Apart from being a bit of a CC-ing bully (which is what it's supposed to be) and the freakish mobility it can get, it seemed kinda okay

#

Having been on the giving and receiving end of it now

ashen crown
#

It seems like a Pure Forced Movement Controller (which weirdly doesn’t exist in 1st party) and doesn’t seem that extreme

sudden cosmos
#

It caused my players to lose a combat because they had no recourse to getting knocked back, but also that was on them for poor positioning in the CZ partly

muted blaze
#

I'd argue hive is a forced movement controller, but thats more closer to area Denial

ashen crown
muted blaze
#

Tru tru

ashen crown
#

I don't think Torrent has a single optional that doesn't tie into forced movement, and both it's base active abilities tie into it

#

wait there's split the sea

dapper goblet
#

Yeah i find torrents just sort of... explode?

#

Like by all accounts it doesn't make any sense. Soft cover, good hp. But they just die

ashen crown
#

They’re Hive levels of tanky not sure how they die so fast <- has never used a Torrent

muted blaze
#

Perma soft cover

#

Which vanguard ignores

ashen crown
#

I mean sure but a Hive would only be marginally safer by being able to hide in their soft cover

muted blaze
#

So like, i think vanguard 3 in that scenario mentioned earlier. Vanguard 3 wasn't the issue it was probable 1 and 2

ashen crown
#

I think all 3 ranks were an issue

dapper goblet
#

Also they have to get a LOT closer than hives to do stuff

twin escarp
#

My guess is just that the torrent gets up in people's faces a lot and so gets smacked with meaty qcb or melees

#

Also I do want to ask, does the torrents weapon hit both the cone and burst at once or do I pick one

ashen crown
#

I think it’s like the Anchor where you pick one

granite saddle
#

it's clearer in the pdf, once again

image.png
twin escarp
#

Ah of course of course

vagrant grotto
#

so getting up close and personal (thus drawing aggro) and doing something impactful (pushing you out of position) might compound the effect

#

Torrents might need a Defender buddy to draw aggro while taking objectives, tbh

vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
#

Do not equate me to that man lol

vagrant grotto
#

apologies

dapper goblet
#

Haha youre good im ribbing you

vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
#

There we go

#

Much happier with that

#

I think youre right tho - theyre just huge hate targets

vagrant grotto
#

I think this goes to emphasize the sheer risk that Melee NPCs have to endure in order to do their job

dapper goblet
#

Maybe they just need some sort of "active deterrent" if that makes sense

vagrant grotto
#

Hive catches flak for being 20 HP controllers and yet they don't explode the same way hahaha (at least according to reports between the two)

dapper goblet
#

Like "you whiff more" isnt as big a psychological downside as, say, rebound

vagrant grotto
#

mm, dunno. I want more data for now

dapper goblet
#

And hive doesnt explode because its range isnt "5 o'clock shadow"

#

Fair enough

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

On a tangential note- should the Torrent suffer difficulty on ranged attacks while engaged? Because currently it does

#

It is a “melee” NPC

vagrant grotto
#

it doesn't and shouldn't

#

melee attacks are unaffected by Engagement

ashen crown
#

Oh they’re melee weapons

#

I thought they were nexuses or smthn oops

vagrant grotto
#

yeah they're AOE melee weapons

ashen crown
#

Then nevermind- neat

viscid ingot
vagrant grotto
#

hmmmmmmmmm. I know that yesterday's test seemed to indicate that the Vulture was a bit too durable with 2 armor and its Overshield ability... but also, the primary attacker vs. any Vulture in that fight was a Gunslinger who didn't hit IKWMH yet

#

I've made a provisional change in the v1.9 draft to reduce Vulture's armor from 2 to 1 and increase its HP by 2 each tier to compensate, but if other folks report that Vulture's 2 armor is fine, I may throw that change out

twin escarp
#

I've had 1 (one) non-grunt vulture and it went down without too much fuss

#

Though I think the player who killed it was using a superheavy

#

It didn't get the chance to overshield itself because it was busy passing them out to ace grunts though

south cypress
#

My Veteran Vulture went 4 rounds in the thunderdome against a Sherman+Balor+Raleigh+Tortuga party, and they complained about its durability

vagrant grotto
south cypress
#

2 or 3 iirc

#

I believe it was 2 actually

#

Yeah, since it also overshielded others three times and restored its Dandelion three times (Twice to restore limited charges, once to repair after system trauma)

vagrant grotto
#

got it, thank you

#

I will say that right now, the "Vulture is too durable" reports are from an Auxslinger interacting with one and reports from your pre-nerf Opportunistic Salvage Veteran

My provisional armor nerf is still present but I don't think I'm gonna commit one way or another until i hear some more feedback

south cypress
#

That seems fair

dapper goblet
#

Possible malicious plan:
Veteran ghosts paired with assaults that have high impact rounds and grenade launcher

#

I will report back if I survive the players attempt on my life this evening

ashen crown
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Welp I finally made the ad for the playtest- if any of y'all wanna participate (if you have the time) feel free to fill out the form!

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Thanks for the template btw Valk!

muted blaze
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For some reason the times aren't auto adjusting and staying on EST for me

granite saddle
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You using hammertime right ?

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I just use the website.

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In any case, interested if the timezones align, so I'll see if/when I have the time to determine when this is

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
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@vagrant grotto my lad, what exactly are you using to edit LCPs that you can make NPCs in it if you no mind me askin?

vagrant grotto
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It’s just a config file for me

viscid ingot
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Alrighty then, thanka

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:]

granite saddle
# ashen crown

Checked the update in #lancer-game-recruiting;
It starts at midnight for me, sadcowboy .

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GL for the game anyways ! Hope you find good players.

ashen crown
granite saddle
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Usually 2am is when it starts to be too late for me, so having 2 more hours after that wouldn't be fun for all parties involved

ashen crown
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Valid lol- if the session was going past 1 I wouldn’t bother with it

vagrant grotto
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So, for Prism: I'm considering removing the "Cover your ass" clarification of what Occupying a Projector's Space means to make space for the following on Diffraction beam:

On Hit: If the Prism consumed LOCK ON against the target, they can only draw line of sight to the Prism’s spaces until the end of their next turn.

This weapon only targets hostile characters. Attacks made through a projector gain AP.
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I didn't like the unilateral "fascinate on hit" effect, and Prism lacked a "default second quick" when a Projector was already up, so this felt like a reasonable tie-in to its Artillery nature

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also considering a rider effect that can inflict Lock On as a punishment, maybe tied to Refracting Armor...

# 
REFRACTING ARMOR
Trait
Attacks targeting characters, objects, or spaces within Burst 3 of the Prism lose the benefit of SEEKING. Hostile characters that end their turn in the same area gain LOCK ON.
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Too much?

ashen crown
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Hm, kinda

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Well less too much and more just… feels shoehorned?

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Could just be first impressions tho- being practically immune to Seeking is very handy for the Prism after all and fits

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It’s just the Lock On that feels weird- it’s very minor but in a way it discourages being both near and far away from it

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Which if I’ve learned anything following the Kai Rebake dev cycle is uh. Not the best

vagrant grotto
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confused about the far away part

ashen crown
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You know I had a train of logic of “seeking fails so artillery is discouraged from attacking it” but then I realized that makes no sense

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You know what disregard my first impressions I do not trust them at the moment

vagrant grotto
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all good

ashen crown
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All I can really say is “seems like it’s worth playing around with”

vagrant grotto
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I was trying to decide if there should be a more Tank or Rearguard-coded feature in the base kit and decided that the rest of the optionals leaned Rearguard

ashen crown
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Out of curiosity, for Blast Seeking Effects (like Hurricane Cluster Projector), is the intent that the center (aka the targeted space) can’t benefit from Seeking, or that spaces of the AOE that overlap with the Armor Area lose the benefit of Seeking?

vagrant grotto
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Seeking and Arcing have a weird double duty on Blast templates where it both applies to the placement of the Blast as well as how cover is handled drawn from the center of the blast

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so naturally, disabling Seeking stops all of it

ashen crown
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So essentially, if you can’t see the aura spaces, you outright can’t target the effected spaces with Seeking weapons (even if it’s a blast weapon), and if the origin is outside the area then it can’t ignore cover between the origin and target (if the target is in the aura). Is that right?

vagrant grotto
#

are you done editing

ashen crown
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Sorry was just editing for clarity, I think so?

vagrant grotto
#

okay cool, it's just a doozy of a question

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all of that sounds correct

ashen crown
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Ok cool- it’s weird but sounds more intuitive in play than on paper

vagrant grotto
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bottom line, the attacker needs line of sight, and the blast needs line of sight

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it's like firing an RPG or Missile Rack, two of the only Blast template weapons without Arcing or Seeking

placid glacier
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I'm not sure if this is just me because of a conflicting ID from a different lcp but Gaussian Blur seems to be be just... missing for me in the Kensei optionals?

image.png
vagrant grotto
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hmmmmmmmmmmmm that may be on me

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sec

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fuck I didn't fix the ID

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I'll push out a fix now

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
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👍

granite saddle
granite saddle
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Not in a "it's bad" way, just

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Not sure if there isn't a better way to go about it

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
granite saddle
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Ok yeah, I see
I mean yeah worst case scenario just move it to the faq

ashen crown
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Here’s what I’m thinking- if the Projector Rider triggers on hit from consuming Lock On with no save, it’s a debuff that a. Is easy to focus on characters that will suffer the most from it, and b. Very cheap if the Prism has easy access to Lock On

Therefore I don’t think baking a Lock On aura, or just generally easier access to Lock On, into it will be productive even if the mechanic on its own is fun

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Feel like something the Prism should have a spotter for, or have to work extra to make use of

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This does potentially lean more into the artillery element of its role than the defender element however

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Ofc I can’t really compare it against anything since I don’t think there are many good analogs to the Projector’s Lock On consumption. Player side there are some but player side balancing is different, and on the NPC side it’s weird

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Plus theory counts for very little when it comes to feedback

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Just feels a little like a “Javelin Rockets into Missile Pods” combo- it’d make it too easy

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Tho I guess hostiles have to end their turn in burst 3 so like. It is very much telegraphed

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It’s weird

vagrant grotto
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as it stands, this strat can largely already be done on live

ashen crown
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Fair fair

vagrant grotto
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minus the accuracy from Lock On, but plus the benefit of "fixate on Prism"

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so if anything, these changes prevent that strat from being as optimal

ashen crown
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Then I suppose this isn’t something that can really be judged at a glance

ashen crown
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Would the Prism not still gain accuracy? Or is that referring to the engagement penalty?

vagrant grotto
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like, Lock On on its own

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however, it does get to benefit from the Fixate effect, immediately, with no waiting

ashen crown
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Gotcha gotcha

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By the way, idk if this has been answered before, but if a Projector is within a character’s threat, and a Prism begins movement, would the Prism be beginning movement within threat and thereby prompt Overwatch?

vagrant grotto
#

in comparison, this proposed version does NOT get immediate access to the Fixate, and needs to wait/hope that folks stay in the aura. But in exchange for that telegraphing, it is more likely to actually hit

ashen crown
#

You know what I didn’t consider it like that. In that case I’d call this a more welcome change

vagrant grotto
twin escarp
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and a mesmerist for memetic magnetism to double bind with the fascination

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narratively those three are my biomechanical experiments so having the three-way synergy is actually pretty neat

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Just did a playtest Control with Vultures and Anchors. None of them had templates, both were deployed upon combat start and then had one as a reinforcement. Here are some thoughts:

From the players:

  • Vulture for the most part felt fine, mobile enough to be useful but not unfair, and while the overshield was a challenge it wasn't overwhelming. THe 2 armor could be a bit much with the overshield, but one player was vocal about having no issue with it. Mag Bombs were also used and they saw no negative comments. In terms of Synergy, it was declared to combo pretty well with anything too since overshield is always appreciated. Recharge rolls were hot + vultures had short shelf life so the rest of magpie was irrelevant. Did make good use of wrecks
  • Anchor, unfortunately due to OpFor Composition, GM Strategy, and Map Design, did not see a lot of use. It's size made it decent at controlling space and was cute controlling with Push and Pull but otherwise not very impactful, at most securing a Control Zone before being folded into space. Anchor was only slightly relevant when it came to a player choosing which control zone to pursue, but it really needed to be paired with a mid to long range NPC to see more use (such as the Slingers or Elite Strider being fielded). Null Grav was somewhat easy to ignore after deployment, especially considering being range 8 made them difficult to deploy at range, but it was pointed out that if the zones were placed adjacent to each other they could've had more impact on one of the more mobile characters + been a real burden against less mobile characters in general. Moreover the initial impair was impactful to a degree, especially since it could be inflicted en masse. Overall, the Anchor was seen as a decent NPC in a bad situation, suggesting that it perhaps requires more skill to deploy and use than other NPCs.

It was cute when using Null Grav to help NPCs quickly ascend onto a plateau where a control zone was located, which did matter.

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Also there was exclamation to the statement that the Vulture could destroy weapons and systems with 0 charges in them, as it is not stated in the actual system and is contrary to how Lancer usually works, so codifying that would be appreciated- at least to avoid starting arguments. Stating that it was "intended" and from "the word of dev" wasn't as strong a defense as hoped.

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(also one player appreciated that everything that had a duration had it's duration clearly stated- that's apparently a common problem with 3rd party and homebrew material)

vagrant grotto
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Thanks for all the feedback @ashen crown ! I’ll review it again in the morning but overall glad that the NPCs went over well. Sounds like I’ll need a FAQ entry for Magpie destroying something with 0 limited charges remaining, at the very least. Glad to hear that the Vulture armor + Overshield was well-received and that the Vulture ate well.

I don’t see a lot of Anchor feedback so this is helpful. Maybe it is one of the more “system mastery NPCs” of the bunch? Something for me to ponder I suppose

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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That does change things lol

ashen crown
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The players definitely were commenting a lot on "it would have been relevant if x, but x didn't happen"

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NPC cohesion was greatly hurt by the sitrep too- was hoping for more of it but a control was just bad for it :p

vagrant grotto
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Yeah, Control is both my favorite and least favorite sitrep lol

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It’s fun when it’s good and mid when it’s not

ashen crown
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There was an Elite Strider in the opfor, and one of the ANchors probably could've saved its life if it accompanied it. Without an Artillery to babysit the Anchor is kinda hurting

vagrant grotto
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It’s got same issues as Aegis

ashen crown
#

I can see that yeah

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At the very least I think Null Grav is mostly fine, at most suggesting it should be decoupled from sensors/sensors should be increased, or that the blast areas should all be adjacent to each other, but tbh I wouldn't go so far as to try that at the moment

vagrant grotto
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Well, they can be adjacent as written at least

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Sounds like it did decent work

ashen crown
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More of a "force it to be like that to prevent bad decision making" situation

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I had two null grav zones in the way to an objective, and they were one space apart. But if they were right next to each other, the character it was slowing wouldn't have had the chance to boost while between them and get just enough movement to exit the null grav zones and continue the boosted movement to the other objective

vagrant grotto
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I see it as fine for now

ashen crown
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Yeah fair

vagrant grotto
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I could understand reducing number of areas and increasing the radius instead though

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Avoid Javelin Indecision

ashen crown
#

That could also be fun, though I can see it getting in it's own way tho

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Worth trying however

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But yeah Vulture, thankfully, worked beautifully without Pre-Placed Wrecks

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Never needed to destroy allied equipment either, the Gun and wrecks was enough most of the time

granite saddle
#

No comment about the LoS blocking gun on the Vultures ?
Surprising.

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I guess that's a good sign I was overreacting.

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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I could see it as an issue, but the point of the Phosphorus Gun is to kinda be System Trauma fodder anyway so not like jt’s an issue, and it’s easy to use without being a nuisance

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If a PC decided to take advantage of it, I made sure to reserve the Vulture’s activation so the cover would disappear soon after and leave them a sitting duck

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Which I was very mindful of because one of the PCs was a Hecatonchieres

static kernel
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my players are talking about Liminal Space and it occurs to me that this funky little trait on the Nimue might actually become relevant against some Anomaly optionals lol

image.png
vagrant grotto
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Perfect lol

viscid ingot
#

"An Anomaly? Well you better be doing shit Normally because I can still see you." Type shit.

ashen crown
south onyx
dapper goblet
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valk - re: Torrent's Split the Sea ultra optional - do you recommend scaling that any differently for 5 players given that it replaces Shock and Awe

muted blaze
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Give it veteran and commander

dapper goblet
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yeah unironically I was thinking you give it an extra structure and such

muted blaze
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Start with 2 on the board??? Random idea

dapper goblet
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I think im gonna go with that actually. feels correct somehow.

vagrant grotto
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I have yet to get feedback on this Ultra trait so I look forward to hearing back!

dapper goblet
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Im trying to decide if I start with two on the field or give it an extra structure

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Im going to to with starting it split and counting it as 3 activations for budget

vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
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It shall be so

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I am a little worried that'll just have it explode as I run standard structure rules but I suspect that's interesting in and of itself

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(This encounter probably won't be for a month so yknow)

vagrant grotto
dapper goblet
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Sure, just more pronounced if you do more structure stacked

ashen crown
sudden cosmos
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I usually tack a feature on that allows it to not get popped until 3 structure

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But there's some sort of debilitating penalty where it'll be doing whatever it does worse

vagrant grotto
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Y’all already know how I handle it lol

sudden cosmos
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For example, a certain ultra berserker had an ability called "ablative carapace" where it'd lose stampede defense and become perma impaired

ashen crown
sudden cosmos
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Nah. They can snake eyes on the second just like a player.

ashen crown
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Ah ok

vagrant grotto
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Considering running a playtest game on this coming Sunday

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Same time as previous ones, 2pm us eastern

muted blaze
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I can put my name down but I need to double check on timings

muted blaze
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Yeah I'm free Sunday

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IDK What build I will choose but I said it will include a HMG

south cypress
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I should be able to join, potentially with a striker

vagrant grotto
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Hell yeah that’s half a table

granite saddle
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Make that three quarters, I'm down

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(If "same time" is one where I was able to play, I don't remember)
(Even then I've got nothing planned so it could still very much be fine)

vagrant grotto
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Gonna craft a proper pitch with timestamp and expectations sec

granite saddle
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Maybe I'll even try something more... exotic, if the teamcomp (and your rulings) allow it

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I got to play Long Arms again a few days ago, so I've got my fix for now

muted blaze
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Empakai, longest arm

granite saddle
# muted blaze Longer arms

Well......
Kinda, if and only if you count the long arm of the law as a valid Arm to be Long. Its range is certainly greater than Long Arms's.

muted blaze
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Judge dredd ass mech

vagrant grotto
#

Title: Valk's Lancer Playground - Smashing Mirrors
Game System: LANCER RPG
Platform: FoundryVTT
Chat: Voice through Train Lightning Discord, text through Foundry
Availability: 4 seats
Time: <t:1755453653:F>, ~4-5 hours in length.
Tone: Fast and furious playtest skirmishes.
Hook: Nothing wrong with a little corporate sabotage now and then. Spoil the shipments protected by an MSMC squad.
Requirements: Create an LL6 character using Massif-published content.
Details: This is a playtest for some of my homebrew NPCs and special house rules. Most of my houserules can be found here, but key highlights:

  • Overcharge lets you reroll an attack/check/save instead of take an extra action, and refreshes on a rest.
  • Aid lets you split Stabilize’s action cost between players!
  • Overkill is now opt-in: Choose to reroll each 1 or don't!
  • Brace is 1/scene but now has no downside.
  • NPCs with Recharge abilities also take Self Heat from those abilities.
  • Overheating can inflict Overheated, which prevents use of self-heat abilities.
  • Structure Damage is replaced with picking between being Dazed or suffering System Trauma.
  • All mechs only have 1 Stress, become Exposed & Overheated upon reaching max heat cap, and take excess heat as irreducible Energy damage.
  • Lifting/Dragging rules are revamped to support Escort Objectives in a sensible way!

Other: I’m Valk! I’ve previously published several third-party modules for Lancer. I run brisk and fluid combats. If you have any questions about the rules I plan to include, please ask!

muted blaze
#

Is chat gonna be ur own server?

vagrant grotto
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This time yeah

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My server is burning a hole in my pocket lol

muted blaze
#

Valid

vagrant grotto
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If PNet is preferred we can do that instead tho

granite saddle
muted blaze
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I'm fine with whatever

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I just wanna silly mech game

vagrant grotto
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Low key this is also me kinda keeping track of recurring players in case I finally pull the trigger on a long-form lancer campaign

muted blaze
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Will you be changing autostab?