#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 5 of 1

ashen crown
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Mind Freak I can see getting confusing after the second use as a tangential note

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And the consequences may be more long term than expected considering the circumstances for ending the effect

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It remains to be seen, so i wouldn’t do anything about it yet, but it’s a comment I have on it

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I would like to reiterate I do like the effects a lot- they’re really cool, potentially prompt a lot of RP moments, and the scope of the anomaly’s potential suite means it really lives up to the weirdness and unpredictability of what Paracausality can be.

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||the temptation to give CAUSTIC or its constituents the anomaly template. I won’t- too many new mechanics at once since it’s the table’s first Kai Rebake Ultra and also Parallel- but I’m tempted||

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Oh btw IGF spoilers for above. And below.

||If I ever do another ??? fight, 100% gonna make it a group of anomalies instead of 1 Ultra||

muted blaze
ashen crown
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If there’s no Sitrep and the combat is just a death match, does Dust and Echoes potentially make a combat able to last indefinitely unless a PC can become intangible to kill the Soul or all wrecks are destroyed?

vagrant grotto
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That or until the anomaly surrenders I guess. It could do with a better end condition I suppose

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Like “has 9 HP, speed 3, loses 1 HP per space moved”

ashen crown
mild trail
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I think if someone makes the choice to pick an optional that soft-locks the encounter maybe they simply should not

ashen crown
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You could maybe add a Full Action Skill contest players could do to try and dissipate it

ashen crown
mild trail
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GM screen does not provide cover against The Shoe Rule

ashen crown
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Still, the fact there’s no way to get rid of it apart from “be intangible” feels like something to be amended slightly

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But again, it remains to be seen

vagrant grotto
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like I said, I'm gonna add a better end condition

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OR

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and hear me out

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It follows the players to the next fight

ashen crown
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That sounds like something my players would actively punch me for using

vagrant grotto
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(nah, wreck management for that long will be tiring)

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yeah no I'm gonna add a bleedout effect

ashen crown
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Or… what if the players could let it possess their mechs to kill it?

vagrant grotto
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could be clever, or even imprisoning it could be cool, but I think the effect text is long enough as it is

ashen crown
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Fair nuff

vagrant grotto
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I can't believe I literally made a template with the feature "You're Too Slow" specifically for the Pyros, Demos, and Bombards in my life

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
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nah there's a bit of a perverse incentive to destroy all wrecks then, I'm gonna put a bleed timer on it so it doesn't just perpetually cause issues

granite saddle
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Also this seems wayyyy too hash, given how unpredictable and frequent mech destruction is in base Lancer.
With your rules it's fine, but still.

vagrant grotto
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agreed, it needs a little more time to cook

granite saddle
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Also very disruptive of the actual narrative if you fail your get creative, so maybe auto-success ?

vagrant grotto
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I'll be real: If I had my way, I wouldn't put a hard-and-fast solution in that

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but maybe

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Realized I completely forgot the quirk table when designing these 😩

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
placid glacier
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(Giving it Memento Culpa and Forced Obsolescence)

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are stat blocks ok to copy paste in here or should I keep that to #gm-corner ?

vagrant grotto
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go for it

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both is good

mild trail
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the npc greater than its features

placid glacier
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god I hope discord turns this into a text doc

vagrant grotto
# vagrant grotto both is good

I'm not just saying this to get more folks looking at my stuff, not at all I can't fool anyone here, I like seeing my stuff shared lol

placid glacier
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anyway gonna try and figure out what I wanna pair with this thing now...

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I will have a bunch of dead horus mechs around as set dressing/puppet fodder

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just trying to think what fits fighting with. the final manifestation of a cascading ship NHP

ashen crown
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You could pair it with more anomalies too

ashen crown
# placid glacier

Also that’s 3 scary templates good lord. You know what Anomaly Optionals you plan on using?

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
vagrant grotto
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Keeps you from cluttering the board with more wrecks if that’s an issue

ashen crown
ashen crown
placid glacier
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also this boss will be taking place on a derelict that's been floating in space for a while so none of the original crew

vagrant grotto
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Ah rip

placid glacier
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wallflower style subaltern squads could be on the table

ashen crown
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I’m thinking you could flavor them like animated functions components of the ship

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A techy to represent the animated ship computer, a support to represent the ships fire suppressant system, a Scourer/pyro to represent the ship’s engine, etc

placid glacier
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hmm

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I like that support idea actually lol

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you know what would be absolutely evil tho

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a Bombard

ashen crown
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That would be fun

placid glacier
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with how many grunts are gonna be around from the boss

ashen crown
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Since these are rebakes, you could lean into it and throw in a Command Override Hive

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Just the Quartet of “Drones are the Enemy”

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Could even throw on some templates onto the hive to make it be a bit of a damage sponge for the team

placid glacier
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RPV, Command Override, Solipsis Swarm?

ashen crown
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And Hive also allows for Hide nonsense

ashen crown
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RPV was not my first thought but it honestly works great, clever!

placid glacier
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what were you thinking?

ashen crown
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Something like Veteran

placid glacier
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aah

ashen crown
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Or an Anomaly with a tanking trait

placid glacier
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true

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I'll prob still toss anomaly on it as well

ashen crown
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You could be really mean and throw on Dust and Echoes

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And then make like 3 of the wrecks hives

placid glacier
ashen crown
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The Rational Part of my Brain: The base game has plenty of fun templates you haven’t used that suit your needs just fine. You don’t need to use everything, and it’ll get too confusing anyway.
The Lancer Player in my Brain: Make an SSC Champion Anomaly Horror Ship Slinger

placid glacier
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why ship?

ashen crown
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Funny

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Also size 4 = Sun’s Zenith LOS and range is easy, and the extra HP makes it less likely to fold and more likely to be engaged

placid glacier
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true

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I was just trying to think how a slinger ship would work lmao

ashen crown
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Entirely crewed by Cowboys

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Big Horse

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Or train if you’re inspired by the Novakid from Starbound

placid glacier
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Lmao

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That's good

placid glacier
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I couldn't think of anything else to put onto a bombard so I did this

image.png
static kernel
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i don't have any test data to back it up, but my gut feeling is that i might allow the Singularity Generator's black hole to be dissipated on a jam or stun imo.

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.....wait, it doesn't even end when the Anomaly is destroyed? damn

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just a permanent SCL following you around the map lol

ashen crown
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I think it just moves in a straight line, not following anybody around

static kernel
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i took that to mean 'a straight line (in any direction)'

ashen crown
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No I'm pretty sure the intention is for it to move in the same straight line from deployment, meaning it's supposed to eventually float off the map

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It may not be indicated in the text

static kernel
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yeeeeah that would make a lot more sense and would fit the theme of an SCL alternative better

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maybe 'the anomaly draws a length 99 line from an adjacent space, visible to all players. the black hole travels 4 spaces along this line every round until it leaves the map' or something like that

placid glacier
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hey wait actually

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is memory leak supposed to be a target in sensors and LoS or?

ashen crown
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Huh, yeah it doesn't specify a range

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Also, are all the systems meant to be labelled as "Traits" or are they meant to be labelled as systems?

placid glacier
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cus I assume so?

ashen crown
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Also also, the fact Singularity Generator is a Deployable means its affected by Hydra's Puppetmaster which is kinda funny

static kernel
ashen crown
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Oh right the whole direction of "Green = Active Ability, Red = Passive"

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Forgot about that

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Also also, it is kinda funny to me how because of all the extra tech actions, Brigand is now sorta a Hacker Template

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Speaking of which,, Dirty Fighting can trigger on tech attacks, which is interesting

placid glacier
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huh

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neat

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smth smth the chomo

static kernel
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the specific wording of the Anchor's Lodestone seems to provide affected allies immunity even from ranged attacks made inside the zone? That seems a bit excessive to me

image.png
ashen crown
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Well that's intentional- the Anchor is still a valid target for ranged attacks that way

placid glacier
static kernel
ashen crown
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Well at that point, the question becomes "is the Lodestone's whole gimmick really worth it?" which is something you'd wanna playtest. Being size 3 and burst 3 may be a bit excessive though as at that point the Lodestone is just "Spite but better in every way except Imprison"

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Being slowed instead of immobilized as well as having a massive area means it just does what the Spite and Aegis and Bastion are supposed to do better, definitively

static kernel
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yeah, if it was 'you can't target enemies inside the zone unless you're also in there' it forces backliners and tech attackers to get up close, which creates some meaningful tactical pressure

ashen crown
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Bare minimum, I'd dial back elements of the Anchor to be more in line with comparable NPCs who share a similar gimmick of "stop guys from attacking nearby friends"

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However that is just from my currently reading of this- again, haven't playtested it

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Numerically the Anchor has better bulk than all the examples listed however :/

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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I’ll admit that I’ve been a little concerned about it recently but I’m unsure if it’s worth changing at this point

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Like I floated a “redirect as a heat self reaction” against current version in #homebrew-design and the (small number of) folks that responded said the Quick Action sounded healthier

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Thing is, I don’t want it to just be “difficulty on ranged attacks” because that starts to just make it a Size 3 Aegis

static kernel
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Yeah just discouragement like that is probably too weak

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Although it does occur to me, with the specific wording of 'valid targets', could you still hit them with templates attacks?

vagrant grotto
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It’s not the intent no

static kernel
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Ah ok

vagrant grotto
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I know hidden is a bugbear with this but I was taking AOE to still be targeting stuff

static kernel
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This is just a language thing but I think raw template attacks would be allowed under the current wording, 'targeting' here scans to me as the same logic as Hidden characters

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Yeah exactly

vagrant grotto
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Noted. Should be like “targeted or affected” then

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At least that’s current intent

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But yeah, Anchor can overheat itself if it overuses Lodestone, which disables it. And walking up to punch things works fine too

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Like, it has perfectly average NPC heat cap

static kernel
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Yeah I did also note that it's a size 3 character that's not immune to invol movement

vagrant grotto
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I personally think there’s a lot of potential counterplay, and if it stops the Monarch from getting its pick of targets, then it’s working as intended as an Anti-Artillery Rearguard

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So yeah, ask your resident hacker to puppet systems the fucker or something

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Or invade it once or twice

granite saddle
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That's how I've always seen it at least

vagrant grotto
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If, with all this in mind, Anchor STILL playtests poorly on a consistent basis, then I’ll consider changing it up some more

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Note: I didn’t give it Heavy Frame because I also didn’t want to become Goliath 2, too lol

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
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Oh of course

vagrant grotto
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But yeah, everything in this supplement is experimental in some way, with limited playtesting. The “core 8” NPCs are IMO the most solid of the bunch, but even that doesn’t preclude overhauls to refine the desired gameplay experience (like I recently did for the Hatchet). Playtest feedback is always welcome to help me adjust my priors; either here or in the linked google form in the pins works great

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Oh, lol. That’s fine then

ashen crown
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Yeah Elextropulse is literally nothing, but it is funny

vagrant grotto
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Last thing I wanted was for Hydra 1 enjoyers to just. Redirect the damn Sphere of Annhilation

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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True but the Goliath’s form of bullet redirection is far softer than the listed examples and the Anchor’s

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But if you say the playtests have kept it not a problem then I suppose it’s not a problem

vagrant grotto
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Right, which means that the Goliath lives even longer 🙂

ashen crown
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True true

vagrant grotto
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So, hit me with some Anchor playtest notes, as I’m very interested in making these challenging without being hair-tearing

placid glacier
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Goliath with rebake support Desant, An Aegis riding shotgun, and an anchor

When you're really tired of accuracy stacking shenanigans

granite saddle
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Mr. Steal-your-girlGUN

vagrant grotto
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But yeah if you need me to pull out my spreadsheet for how I calculate NPC durability, I will do it

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Probably later though, when I’m at my PC and can double check the equations

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Yeah no, you’re under no obligation to do so

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@ashen crown

ashen crown
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Thanks!

vagrant grotto
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I may need to shuffle the Armor around

ashen crown
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And yeah I think if I playtest these NPCs I’m gonna make a dedicated mission or one-shot for them. Easier to balance that way

vagrant grotto
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I think I’m doubling Armor’s “HP” with resistance

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But yeah read on in the source thread for more info

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It’s about figuring out how much effective damage an NPC can take against a “block of tofu attacker”

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All of the caveats against DPS as a metric are in effect here, except in reverse

vagrant grotto
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okay @ashen crown I fixed it, should be better now

ashen crown
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Neat, thanks!

vagrant grotto
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notable: Bastion SUFFERS from the fix lol

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Here I thought they had like 42-ish effective HP, but nope, it's 34-ish

placid glacier
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what was the final ruling for throwing the extrude:knife?

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as in like. picking it up/if you could throw it more than once

vagrant grotto
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Exactly what it says on the tin

placid glacier
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👍

ashen crown
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any recs for fun low to medium power Anomaly Traits that would go well on a Commander Priest for an LL4 group?

vagrant grotto
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It’s the classic Harbinger setup

clever wind
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Is the intent with one reactor stress that the inflicted energy damage is doubled by expose?

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...nevermind found the FAQ

muted blaze
ashen crown
muted blaze
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Different campaign?

ashen crown
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||Narratively it’s Feather’s Confidant, smuggled from The Timeline™️ ||

ashen crown
muted blaze
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Ah got it

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YEah remote control

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||Combat 3?||

ashen crown
muted blaze
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Mmmm yeah remote control

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Instead of "painfully kills the pilot" make it ||You blink, it is the X that was replaced lying destroyed... The Priest is actually over there||

ashen crown
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Good reflavoring, the original felt too cruel for the character

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I wonder if Entropic Corrosion or some other temporal one would be fun

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Forced Obsolescence being recharge 5 and a quick action does feel a bit cruel considering there’s literally no way to clear it apart from resting tho

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Definitely feels like something that once it works it shouldn’t be usable again for the rest of the scene on that character

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Cuz if it hits someone with a Superheavy… that stings

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Ya know what? I have some ideas on how to flavor Realm Warp, that sounds fun

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Alternatively… time stop, lol

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Hm… actually Remote Control in this case introduces a lot of world building implications I don’t like

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||he’s supposed to revive via Fire Gates just like everyone else||

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Realm Warp and/or Timestop should do

muted blaze
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You can use remote control but just gut its flavour as some powerful magic BS of just rewriting time to a different timeline where the party destroyed an enemy mech instead of the commander priest. Then that allows the ||revival like any of the others||

ashen crown
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Hm, I’d rather stay consistent, ||especially since the Players interact with the typical method of revival 2 combats later.|| I’ll go with Realm Warp or Time Stop

muted blaze
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Valid

ashen crown
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||Realm Warp ofc being “stuff from The Timeline™️”||

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Also, it’s a control, so it’ll be really fun to use Realm Warm

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Btw Valk, you mentioned wanting to add a character teleport clause to Realm Warp’s 1st option- mind leaking what that may look like?

vagrant grotto
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Characters don’t get teleported

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They get bumped

vagrant grotto
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Most all of these are spitballed and added at the drop of a hat so compelling arguments for scalability are welcome

ashen crown
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But thanks!

vagrant grotto
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Nah thinking about it and the use cases makes me a tiny bit concerned

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I might make it one of the tech actions so it’s cleared by shut down

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Because it feels like a tech action you know?

ashen crown
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Oh that’d be fun!

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… wait can the AIs from Awakening be removed by Shut Down since they’re part of the tech action, or is it just the cascade penalty?

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Or neither?

ashen crown
muted blaze
ashen crown
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As a player I would be psyched being hit by Forced Obsolescence once because it’s interesting and acts sort of like System Trauma in a cool way- it rewards my build options while still giving more wiggle room than System Trauma, making me play in a new interesting way (also if I need to destroy a weapon I can still destroy the Obselete weapon)

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If I’m hit by it twice tho… then I’m most likely out of backups, so wtf am I supposed to do

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Same sitch with mind freak- hit once, cool character moment and gameplay challenge! Hit twice? “Uhhh so do I have to connect with the original person to switch back or the newest person or-?” It introduces complicated questions that don’t sound fun to try and answer

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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Gotcha I thought so

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The use of “only” made me think that but I had to check

vagrant grotto
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It could stand to be clarified

ashen crown
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That should probably be the philosophy of the really gameplay impactful effects- if they’re theoretically unlimited, give plenty of outs even if they’re really expensive

vagrant grotto
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I’d still limit it to 1/scene per character tbf

ashen crown
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That’s also fair

vagrant grotto
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3 actions to clear a Quick Action is painful

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You can live with it or eat the cost

muted blaze
# vagrant grotto They’re a special case

It's a tech action: PEBCAC can fix it

Pebcac can't fix it because it's a special case

It's 4 NHPs in a single mec with a difficulty on cascade checks, PEBCAC will fix it whenever the fuck it structures

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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I’ll worry about the design

ashen crown
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Valid

vagrant grotto
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For now, thanks for providing your vibe check

ashen crown
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Suggestion mode: Off (joke) (but yeah I do get wanting to design your own things for your own project)

ashen crown
muted blaze
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It probably doesn't work this way but I think it's funny

vagrant grotto
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Nope it does

muted blaze
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LMAO

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Based

vagrant grotto
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AI tag is AI tag

muted blaze
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Iconoclast is defined by "each undestroyed NHP on your mech including this one. “NHPs” are Systems that both grant your Mech the AI tag and can cascade or can be allowed to cascade."

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They're AI's but they're not systems

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I mean

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You could say "The NHPs installs the following system into the enemy mech 1/2/3 times"

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Wait an anomaly trait could just do that

vagrant grotto
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Yeah

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Works better imo

muted blaze
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"Whilst this system is in your mech, it smells of garlic"

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Valid for system trauma

vagrant grotto
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Nah

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Gimme a sec

ashen crown
# muted blaze

Ya know, in theory you could be hit by Awakening multiple times

muted blaze
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As a quick action, you may delete a hornet

ashen crown
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It’d have to be from separate anomalies or it’d have to be/paired with a Vulture but it’s possible

muted blaze
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Wipe them off the face of the earth

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Then they turn into a checks notes

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Dying star?

ashen crown
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Would an Anomaly do it again after the first time? Fuuuuuuuck no, but it’s possible

vagrant grotto
# 
Nascent NHP
0 SP, AI
Your mech gains the AI tag and has +1 Difficulty on cascade rolls. This system does not count against the maximum number of AIs installed on your mech, and is not a valid target for System Trauma.
ashen crown
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Instead of adding that System Trauma Clause you could give it the Indestructible tag

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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Never mind

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I’ve been using too much Comp/Con v_v

muted blaze
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The 12 anomaly leeches with Symbiotic doctrine III and Awakening attached to my veteran vipers speed specter with step

vagrant grotto
# 
Awakening
Trait, Full Action, 1/scene
The Anomaly implants the following system 1/2/3 times into a target mech in Sensors:

Nascent NHP (System, 0 SP, Tags: AI)
Your mech gains the AI tag and has +1 Difficulty on cascade rolls. This system does not count against the maximum number of AIs installed on your mech, and is not a valid target for System Trauma.
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Take it out of Tech to save on headaches

ashen crown
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Making it a system also helps with VTT integration

vagrant grotto
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Yup yup

muted blaze
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"Ok roll to cascade"

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sigh

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Rolls 12d20kl11-1d6

ashen crown
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Ya know, one thing that occurred to me: Cascade says you specifically have to roll a 1. It doesn’t specify you cascade if you roll below a 1

muted blaze
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It means you can roll a 4 minus 3

ashen crown
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Idk if that’s worth codifying but it may be worth noting

muted blaze
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So would it, increase the odds or decrease the odds?

ashen crown
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Cuz I’m pretty sure rolling a 0 or lower should still have you cascade but it’s better to get that in writing then leave it to interpretation

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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I’m not doing the any dice on that

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Anydice is a website that calculates dice probability distributions

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I’m not calculating the odds

ashen crown
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Ah gotcha- yeah for sure

mild trail
muted blaze
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It's just the same odds...

vagrant grotto
# 
Awakening
Trait, Full Action, 1/scene
The Anomaly implants the following system 1/2/3 times into a target mech in Sensors:

Nascent NHP (System, 0 SP, Tags: AI)
Your mech gains the AI tag and has +1 Difficulty on cascade rolls (for a minimum result of 1). This system does not count against the maximum number of AIs installed on your mech, and is not a valid target for System Trauma.
vagrant grotto
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Acc/diff only cause weird results at the fringes

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Gonna make a “systems.json” file just for this lol

ashen crown
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Also I see the vulture comment (maybe) prompted a tag change lol

vagrant grotto
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Eh it just felt more 1/scene rather than a “payload”

ashen crown
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I mean the NHPs gotta come from somewhere

vagrant grotto
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I tend to default to Limited 1 but there’s a few things that make more sense as a hard 1/scene

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Also I had to make my own 1/scene tag for this project lol

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It feels like something that makes perfect sense to have by default, and yet

ashen crown
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It’s not? Wut?

vagrant grotto
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It’s not

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Not even on ASURA

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It’s usually baked into the effectblock

ashen crown
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That’s silly

vagrant grotto
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I, however, loathe inefficient use of space

ashen crown
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I now do too

vagrant grotto
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So it’s a “silent tag” I include

muted blaze
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Is this a COmpcon thing?

vagrant grotto
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Kinda sorta?

muted blaze
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Or the opposite that it isn't a comp con thing

vagrant grotto
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It’s not a compcon thing

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Nor a CRB thing actually

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Only X/round exists as a tag in crb

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And maybe x/turn but don’t quote me

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So I made x/scene

ashen crown
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An engineer and anchor can prolly have a fun time together

granite saddle
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You know what ? I'd let a player keep a nascent NHP in their mech if they asked. As a treat.

ashen crown
granite saddle
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I mean, the anomaly knows assumedly, but we're not them so...

vagrant grotto
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Hm. I could also have Awakening instead add the AI tag to existing equipment

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Then system trauma can be used to stop cascades but also requires useful equipment to be destroyed

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Okay okay take 3

granite saddle
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Ehh
Might be complicating it a bit too much, but I love the flavor since that's pretty much how it happens usually

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So if you manage to make it work...

ashen crown
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Wait you said that

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✨ Illiteracy✨

granite saddle
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Once again, the curse of the Lancer fan strikes

vagrant grotto
# 
Awakening
Trait, Full Action, 1/scene
The Anomaly targets a mech in Sensors. Up to 1/2/3 random systems without the AI tag installed on the target become NHP systems, gaining the AI tag and the ability to cascade. These AIs may exceed the maximum number of AIs that can be installed on the mech; while the mech exceeds its maximum AIs, it has +1 Difficulty on cascade rolls (to a minimum result of 1). These NHPs may be safely removed during a Full Repair.
ashen crown
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Would adding a clause saying systems with the AI tag are not valid targets be helpful or no?

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I know some mods like Supermassive technically allow for duplicate tags, like Overkill

vagrant grotto
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Fixed

ashen crown
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Should there be a clause for if all the systems already have the AI tag?

vagrant grotto
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No

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I’ll add “up to” EDIT: done

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I like this more than v1 and v2

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V2 was cute and I may do a “install malware system” in the future but I like modifying tags a little more

#

Fuck new Brigand feature idea just dropped

granite saddle
#

Yeah this looks fun

#

I'll get some mileage out of it in my campaign, the ramifications of nacsent NHPs in the vicinity of an active Horizon cell is juicy~

vagrant grotto
# 
PARA.SITE
System, Limited 1, Full Tech
A mech within Sensors gains the following system:

[special system here]
placid glacier
#

Maybe a weapon mod that forces the ai tag and loading?

vagrant grotto
#

Lemme design it first, I’ll poll for ideas if I need em

#

But a mod is clever!

#

Damn

granite saddle
#

Could be fun, idk.

vagrant grotto
#

Big issue is that it’s gotta be tolerable enough to last the mission

#

I’ll mull it over

placid glacier
#

Weapon mod that gives overkill but it also triggers on 2 and 3

granite saddle
#

Infinite heat 1d3 weapon lol

vagrant grotto
#

Not looking for design ideas right now, please

placid glacier
#

Ah fair dos sorry

vagrant grotto
#

Just gonna sit on it for now and see what hatches later

#

Anyway, feeling good about Awakening now

ashen crown
#

Mod of "Your Gun Explodes You Stupid Idiot" ™️

granite saddle
#

Did you mean : displacer overkill system trauma ExBats we have a lot of those damn

muted blaze
#

I just had a brilliant idea

#

Veteran with self destruct OR a L:EC morningstar with remote control

ashen crown
#

Fun way to be cruel by mixing 3rd party content: A Vulture with a Kai Seeder using Last Line

#

Surprise Mine- the sequel!

#

The reaction and then use replenishment would need to be done before the seeder dies, granted

#

But still

vagrant grotto
#

That would be pretty funny if pulled off lol

ashen crown
#

I wonder if you could push it further by making the Vulture a Puppeteer

#

see the issue with me is that when it comes to 3rd party NPCs I'm hit or miss, but when it comes to Templates I'm like a goblin or something

#

I'm just pulled towards them

static kernel
#

does the anomaly's obscured class thing actually work in foundry?

#

i guess i can just rename the actor's class/template details

vagrant grotto
viscid ingot
#

What I do if I need to hide everything with Token Tooltip Alt, is that I go into Token Settings and set the Token Disposition from Hostile to Secret. :3

muted blaze
#

In foundry, I made 2 new items. A new template called UNKNOWN and a NPC class called UNKNOWN. Then I had the real enemy off to the side hidden

vagrant grotto
static kernel
#

with the scan macro the features are still organised by class, so they can infer it after they scan

muted blaze
muted blaze
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Ah gotcha

#

I did it the way i did so it also hides activation count and structure (they don't know what class or NPC type it is) and so I can swap it back so they have full info on scan

#

Also I will post all abilities when they become relevant so if they never scan the anomaly they'll figure out "it's an elite btw" "it's a hive", I'll be open about the abilities it's using

viscid ingot
vagrant grotto
#

Perf then

viscid ingot
#

Inded

ashen crown
#

Do y'all think it'd be fun to make the Anomaly's traits not be detectable until scanned too?

#

Or is that a step too far?

#

It would make effects like Doppelganger have a bit more delay til realization. Instead of seeing "Oh that Pyro is using Razor Swarm something ain't right", it's "Ok the Pyro is making some sort of AOE- why isn't it going away is it not Napalm Bomb?"

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Gotcha gotcha

#

See I almost feel like running it on a case-by-case basis would work best since if you only have 1 anomaly in an encounter, hiding their traits becomes easy because it's the only wildcard the players have to track

#

But once you get more than 1 then it becomes a bit of a hassle

#

Which may not have great gamefeel but what can you do?

ashen crown
#

Hm. I understand design ideas or suggestions aren't really desired at this time, so I'll keep this as bland and vague as possible: Something to mess with Bonds?

vagrant grotto
#

it's one thing to say "you need the free KTB LCP for Intangible rules" but another to say "you need to buy the KTB PDF to make use of this thing"

ashen crown
#

Fair enough

static kernel
#

I thought bonds were playerside and therefore free content?

vagrant grotto
#

like the engine for using them is paid

#

ergo, to use Bonds, your GM has to pay for the PDF

ashen crown
#

You could maybe argue that because the Lancer core rules work the same way you could get away with it but… nah I’m not gonna pretend I can or want to back that up

muted blaze
#

Realised something, unsure if it's an oversight on the EXTRUDE KNIFE

#

On a mook, it's fine... But on anything that triggers on crit for an NPC such as deadly, it will ALWAYS trigger

#

Unless it misses

#

An Ultra with TOO MANY KNIVES can just deal 1+1d6 damage to someone, a brigand can knock them prone, etc

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Sick

vagrant grotto
#

yes oversight, but I'm willing to call it a feature

muted blaze
#

I assumed so

#

I guess it's just "if you are aware, moderate it"

#

A brigand anomaly with TOO MANY KNIVES! just knocking people prone as a quick action sounds annoying

#

But it's probably as annoying as a base pirate ronin with deadly

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

-9999 attack bonus, always only deals reliable damage

muted blaze
#

Honestly, I don't see it as a problem unless the GM goes out your way to make it one

#

LMAO

#

"On attack: This weapon always misses"

vagrant grotto
#

Have its base damage be 0 Variable but reliable 1/2/3

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
#

Ehhhhhh

  1. I think it’s fine
  2. if it’s not fine I’m happy to patch it out
placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

I was trying to hit Omnigun as closely as possible with only keywords and minimal Effect text

placid glacier
#

it is a funny shake up tho

viscid ingot
vagrant grotto
#

But I’m happy with what I have

viscid ingot
#

Apophis Omnigun

#

Very spoopi Omnigun variant.

vagrant grotto
#

Ran some veteran knights today; they didn’t get to swing their swords lol. First one got bashed around by a Goblin + Minotaur hacking pair before getting accosted by an Empakaai. It had a bajillion conditions/statuses on it at one point

inland pilot
#

poor thing

#

thats controllers for you

vagrant grotto
#

I was proud of the controller squad

#

Someone finally tried my Minotaur house rules! They didn’t use any of the modified stuff but they built with it! And proceeded to land a huge Stun on an Empakaai-grappled knight

#

The big test data winners in today’s playtest were the sitreps: Control with contested checks was fun and quick, though I’m considering making it harder to contest for points next time. But it ultimately facilitated control tools to make a big splash! There was one striker on the map and it was an Empakaai in a corner

#

And yet, the goblin, Lancaster, and Minotaur held the forts

#

Extraction was a wash but it was an educational wash

#

I now know I can afford to go harder on the reinforcements in small maps, instead of following RAW Extraction to a T

inland pilot
#

sometimes you gotta let them have an encounter to learn, aye

#

still trying to gauge that one between map size and player counter

vagrant grotto
#

I was so worried that the Demolisher with Heavy Frame was too hard a move on my players during extraction. 1 turn later, it’s in Folded Space and the Lanny is making off like a bandit

inland pilot
#

hahaha

vagrant grotto
#

I had zero reason to worry lol

inland pilot
#

Fold Space does that from experience, still one of the funniest and stronger Invades out there

vagrant grotto
#

Really illustrated to me how bonkers Minotaur license can be on the right Objective-focused sitrep

#

Just a strong showing from controllers today and it gives me hope in my sitrep and encounter design choices tbh

#

Because I think I doubt that they would’ve had as much a field day in some of the cases if I ran RAW control

inland pilot
#

Which rules did you run, in the end? just the Contested check, or some of the other things you were thinking too?

vagrant grotto
#

I think I wanna try it with “while uncontested you can use protocol or qa, but while contested only QA is possible”

inland pilot
#

I think I can see the idea behind that, yao

#

but otherwise thats neat in the end

vagrant grotto
#

Oh, 2xPC count points = victory

#

Both sides had the same target point count

#

But yeah idea was to make a control such that

  1. Characters are actively interacting with the zone
  2. Progression is constantly being made
  3. Early victories are possible for coordinated teams
#

Oh and
4. Characters are actively engaging each other to fight over the zone

#

The nice(?) thing about 3 points is that I could free up 2 snipers without toooo much issue, and the goblin could hang back in a safe spot overlooking the map without feeling pressured to get on a point

#

YMMV on that one

#

I was happy for the flexibility though. Too often, Control becomes “we scatter to the 4 corners of the map” fight

#

And while that technically happened today, it could’ve been different if there was a second melee character/support/defender instead of a Goblin

#

Plus I liked the placement of the zones today

inland pilot
vagrant grotto
#

Exactly. I know that reducing RAW control to 3 zones but leaving Contesting the same can lead to dry games that the PCs dominate (at least according to gm-corner) but I think my tweaks helped prevent that today

#

Bare minimum it felt more active, and sometimes that’s enough

inland pilot
#

I'm maybe tempted to give this ruling a spin, perhaps with the "QA only if contested" tweak seeing I do have a Control coming up (albeit, a 4 point one)

#

it seems more interesting at the least, and I'm already throwing players for a loop, so yao

vagrant grotto
#

Happy to hear how it goes!

inland pilot
#

Zones are also chonky (5x5) but I could probably just say "you have to be completely within a zone to interact" maybe without having to edit too much of the map itself. we'll see

#

worse case, different conditions and variation gives some more insight into how it would feel otherwise

vagrant grotto
#

Tru tru, part of the benefit of the small (essentially Blast 1) zones for me today was that it’s much easier to break contestation, but there’s still a whole 7 (hex) spaces to stand on! It brings the fight together in a satisfying way imo, and all you need is just a toe in the zone

inland pilot
#

thats kinda what I assumed yeah - smaller zone means more meaningful plays. Even a single Ram can be enough to change the math from Protocol to Quick Action

muted blaze
muted blaze
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

If someone attempts to capture a point and fails the contested check. Can that team reattempt the contested check?

vagrant grotto
#

Yes

muted blaze
#

Sick

vagrant grotto
#

At least that’s how I ran it today

#

Basically points/round for each team is capped to the number of points on the map

#

I tracked it by making fake NPCs with HP 1 and Heatcap 1

#

Players depleted the HP and enemies increased Heat. Then every round I’d “full repair” macro them to reset HP and Heat

#

I personally thought I was clever AF lol

#

This is all basically a refinement on my Kill the Noise “control” sitrep, with the potential for an “enemy mirror” instead of just racing against the clock

muted blaze
#

I think I'll use those rules for a future control, but that's quite in the distance

#

4 regular sized points

#

Question about the points, you used. You has them as a burst 1 area around an object. I assume that means the snipers on the ceiling couldn't have nabbed the point

#

Wait a minute...

#

Damn it, if I was still at home I could double check if what you ran is basically 1:1 with a mission type in the newest kill team edition

#

That's now making me curious what other kill team mission types could work well in lancer

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Normally 10v10 roughly

vagrant grotto
#

But I’m sure that there’s at least some inspiration to be gleaned

muted blaze
#

The new edition, there's 3 points with different ways of getting points from them. Some are just standing on them and some require an action to pop

vagrant grotto
#

Seems like some convergent design evolution then

muted blaze
#

Contesting points requires action point total. So a point is contested if you have the same amount of total action points within an inch of it. So if you have 1 person (2 action points) from each team on it, neither person has the point. But larger units such as space marines have an extra action point so contest points better

#

It's also possible to use rules to buff allies giving then extra action points, or nerf enemies removing an action point. And powers that allow you to have +1ap for the sake of capturing points only

vagrant grotto
#

I see, this makes sense

muted blaze
#

Which makes me curious how contesting points based on activation count could work

#

Rather than structure

vagrant grotto
#

There’s a reason I limited points scored to “per objective” while I had a bunch of grunts on the field

muted blaze
#

The unfortunate thing is kill team is made to be symmetrical, lancer aint

vagrant grotto
#

Good food for thought though

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Again, they didn’t get to use the tools, but they felt better about picking them during character creation

#

I’m certain my Overcharge Reroll rules would make the Mino’s full techs feel a lot safer, too

ashen crown
#

Oh those are neat! Personally I think making Localized Maze or Internal Metafold basically have the effects of Sunzi’s Anchor would have similar impact to Immobilize immunity while leaning more into a sort of Immovable Object vs Unstoppable Force dynamic Minotaur and Calendula have, but that’s just me

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah I haven’t touched my player side houserules in a long time and frankly I don’t know how much I really want to dabble with them further

muted blaze
#

I now have access to my kill team cards and I'm looking st them like "hmmm, these can be sitreps"

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

The big reason I’m not as gung ho about doing a personal balance pass player options these days is

  1. There’s too fucking many of them
  2. I’m more acquainted with NPCs and their ilk
  3. My bespoke homebrew is mostly NPC stuff, and systemic issues I got annoyed with
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

I like the splitting up but hate the “and then they sat there for 2 hours”

ashen crown
#

It makes ranged units really important for Controls

#

All 3 times I ran control have forced the team to stay mobile

vagrant grotto
#

I think I like the rules I ran yesterday because potentially, a player could score multiple points in one round if they’re quick

ashen crown
#

The first two times an elite Mirage was harassing the team from the back lines and making aggressive units keep stealing their points, so even when they dealt with the point holders the mirage still needed to go.

Meanwhile the last time was with 4 players, and they still needed to march forward to deal with ranged units like rainmakers and such

ashen crown
#

It gives off vibes a lot closer to Capture the Flag

vagrant grotto
#

The CZ count and points to win are negotiable so don’t feel beholden to what I ran yesterday

ashen crown
#

I’d probably rule it as “points to win = player count x 4”, aka “if you play optimally for 4 rounds straight, you win”

#

I’d probably keep 4 control zones tho

#

Oh wait hang on

vagrant grotto
#

Sure, adjust to taste

ashen crown
#

Just realized the problem, change the formula from “player count” to “zone count”, nevermind

vagrant grotto
#

My taste is “finish the fight before round 4 ends” but that’s me

ashen crown
#

Mmm, yeah in which case reducing it to times 3 would be better

#

Narratively I think a Sitrep like Recon or Escort should be capable of being finished lightning fast, so 2 rounds minimum. Meanwhile Controls and Holdouts last longer narratively, so they should have a higher minimum. That’s me tho

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah you do you

ashen crown
#

Do you think if you swapped to the “Protocol or QA to score point uncontested, then QA to score point contested” rules you’d keep the contested check element?

vagrant grotto
#

Contested check was fun

#

Bonus: it rewards investment in stuff like Gyges frame

#

And veterancy

granite saddle
#

and makes overcharge rerolls go 👀👀👀

vagrant grotto
#

It’s just a little heat? Don’t you wanna win? :3

#

I will note, though, that as I do all these short fights, it’s been a rarity for me to actually structure folks. I finally dealt a Structure Damage yesterday with a Sniper’s Mark shot and I don’t know I feel like I’m doing something wrong otherwise lol. Maybe it’s because I’ve only been running mid-high T1 and characters are remarkably resilient at that point

#

Me, looking at Knight’s sword: “2 threat, 5 damage, lockon, Shred, AND knockback? How did I let this get so loaded?”
Me, running knights: “huh so I didn’t get to swing my sword at all, wacky”

#

My excuse is that it’s Melee and thus deserves a power budget treat

#

Legitimately running the game yesterday just has me hyped for running more

#

I should schedule another game for next Saturday too

upbeat obsidian
#

is there any concerns of using these npcs with other homebrew npcs... i would definitely not assume so but just in case

vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
#

also, i may have a cool retheme of a knight for my games: psuedo... balor style

the weapon is basically sorta like a nanobot.. horus thingie
i mean, shredded is nanitecoded and lock on is tech stuff
the shield is... uh.. angry nanobots..

second wind also is balor coded

#

am i crazy

#

its even got a sys save

upbeat obsidian
#

i will give feedback after

#

although i dont think you need to act on it if its homebrew based

#

would it be useful for me to provide info on how it goes?

#

(i can also explain what the npcs do if you have no knowledge of them)

vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
#

cool yeah ok

#

will do in a while when i run it

inland pilot
#

outside of very specific interactions, they should honestly be fine

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah unless you’re like, aggressively cross classing I don’t anticipate an issue

viscid ingot
#

New NPC Nhoj Lancer
Can use ANY NPC Ability.
Cross Class Hell

vagrant grotto
#

slap Anomaly on it and call it a day

upbeat obsidian
#

i plan to not cross class at all

#

wait no im a genius im going to give a knight goliaths crush targeting

viscid ingot
#

Doesn't it have the dueling shenanigan?

upbeat obsidian
#

yes its silly

#

any tips for actually running the npcs?

#

i want to try a mesmer but im not really sure what to do with it

like, it seems to.. tank? ish? it seems very shootable to counter it

ashen crown
#

Hm. I just noticed Anchors make half decent Gorgon/Orchis stand ins with the Tech optional. Neat... and so does the Mesmerist but shush

#

Small vibe check on the Anchor- Considering the Gravity Cannon is a large AOE weapon with 2 pattern options and 2 knockback options on a size 3 NPC class AND arcing (with how LOS on AOE patterns work iirc the Anchor could attack targets normally without cover penalties or arcing if its attacking past size 2 cover I think?), is the floating accuracy really necessary? Ideally the difficulty mitigation from cover (which is not going to come up often because again, size 3) would be the fact it has a big AOE

#

Also note on the Hatchet's Cleaving Retrieval- is the Knockback also halved on a success or no?

#

Another note on the Knight- how come the Compelled Duel debuffs aren't mutual, like with To The Death? This is more just out of curiosity than anything

#

Honestly the Mesmerist is going to make a fantastic Aster stand in- I have a Karrakin player whose House's Free Company is known for using it so when the Xenoglossary eventually turns it against him it's going to be great moment <3

#

One bit of praise I can give PPG's NPCs- the more I look at them, the more I like them and can see the fun and use with them. The Hatchet seems like a fun Dancer NPC class with how it flies across the battlefield, and the Vulture's main weapon being limited 2 is a really creative way to incentivize Magpie Subroutines. The base kits have so much internal synergy that it just makes me gleeful- an NPC that seems fun to use with just its base kit is the dream.

Tho I would say the pull part of the Anchor's Gravity Cannon doesn't seem the most useful if Siege Armor and Lodestone basically incentivize keeping enemies as far away from it as possible, and the Mesmerist only really has the one optional to make reaction attacks more available. In the Anchor's case it doesn't hurt to be there, and in the Mesmerist's case... yeah that's probably for the best.

static kernel
ashen crown
#

It does the one thing players can't do v_v

#

Also 15/18/21 HP ain't too bad

static kernel
#

Yeah actually it's got the meat to back it up

ashen crown
#

Well it's definitely the worst out of any defender, but it's still not bad

#

HOwever that does make me realize- having its whole gimmick revolve around 2 recharge traits sounds like a bad idea

#

If it can't force targeting or activate mirror images it's either helpless or ignored, both of which are bad

static kernel
#

I'm throwing as many invis units as I can into this one faction but I should probably cap how many I deploy at one time or something

#

My party already got rolled fairly hard by 2 specters [k] the one time they showed up

ashen crown
#

Well the Mesermist is probably a nicer invisibile unit considering you can both tear away the invisibility and it can't use it to hide

#

It's probably the nicest one you can find tbh- with the Kai Rebakes the Specter's is always on and hard to keep off, the Scout's Cloaking Field can last a while and effect multiple characters, and Dataveil has no downsides

#

Meanwhile the Mesmerist gives the promise of "if you keep attacking me eventually it will become easier"

#

Which oddly enough makes it really weak to aux weapons which is fun

ashen crown
#

But should probably use the damn thing first before I say anything

#

Hey if the Mesmerist's Metafold Riposte Jams the target of the Skirmish, doesn't that cancel the triggering attack unless it's a grapple, ram, improvised attack, or some other Jam Bypassing attack?

#

Weird note about the Occultist's Diviner's Darts- how come it says "the attacker" instead of "the Occultist"?

upbeat obsidian
#

i didnt realize we got new ones.. might use some of those with my faction comps as well.. hmm

static kernel
#

actually, speaking of the Mesmer, if Narcissus Override only lets you draw LOS to the Mesmer, does that mean you can normally target enemies that exist in the line between you and it?

ashen crown
#

Not how that works

#

Line of Sight isn’t a literal line, it’s just “can you see the enemy?”

Stuff like Arcing and seeking bypasses this however

vagrant grotto
#

Its goal is to discourage shooting its buddies, so have a threatening buddy around to fuck up the PCs

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

But yeah as for Mesmerist’s recharge stuff: I’ve started thinking of ways to adjust the Mesmerist’s base kit but I’m not sure I’m sold on changing it yet. So give me some playtesting and I’ll review

#

Regardless I appreciate that you all like the NPCs

vagrant grotto
#

At this point, the only content that’s still open to vibe checks is the Anomaly, maybe the Prism (if only because it’s a weirdo). The remaining NPCs have all been through some degree of testing and have checked their vibes at the door.

If you notice something particularly egregious purely on vibes (i.e. gamebreaking or an outright inability for something to do its job), then please lemme know. Otherwise, I welcome any and all playtest feedback

vagrant grotto
#

I’ll say this: I have an idea for a lite Mesmerist rebake, but it’s still getting hammered out and I’m not convinced it’s necessary yet

static kernel
#

uhhh for mirror image i think not allowing it to recast unless all images are destroyed should be fine off the top of my head?

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
static kernel
#

it would kind of punish aux spammers who can actually chew through the mirror images more quickly

vagrant grotto
#

But since folks are already trying to design, this is what I was thinking for a rebake:
• Keep Codespike Rapier, Memetic Magnetism, and Center Stage mostly the same
• Change Mirror Image into a trait:
○ When the Mesmerist hits a hostile character with a Tech Attack, the Mesmerist creates a Mirror Image that occupies its space. While it has any Mirror Images, the Mesmerist is Invisible. Each attack that misses the Mesmerist destroys 1 mirror image.
• Memetic Magnetism loses area scaling, move that to the Veteran trait?
• Mountebank’s Jaunt becomes a system and gains the 1/round tag, changes to “when the Mesmerist hits with a tech attack, it may escape all grapples and teleport to a space adjacent to its target”
• Change NARCISSUS to an attack with a miss effect.

static kernel
#

but i guess the question is 'how comfortable are you letting a raleigh hard counter this'?

vagrant grotto
#

I’m fine with Aux spammers having an okay time against a defender for once

#

Anyway, “create a mirror image on hitting a Tech Attack” means that while Memetic Magnetism is recharging, the basic Invade becomes a useful “second quick action” filler

#

Plus the incentive to hit many foes intensifies on the AOE

static kernel
#

oh, you want to make it single target AND recharge? that might be unnecessary imo

vagrant grotto
#

Huh? No

#

The idea was that Memetic Magnetism stays Burst 2, regardless of tier

static kernel
#

ohhh, sorry you said area scaling

vagrant grotto
#

But yeah the double recharge has been grating on me, mostly because I use Recharge Heat as an optional rule, so it’s a LOT of self-heat pressure on the base kit

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

I’ll put “damage” in then, sure

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

The wording is “pass a save or take [effect]”

#

If you pass, you don’t take the effect unless there’s a caveat like the half damage

ashen crown
#

I might be getting my terminologies mixed up- apologies

#

I can’t recall if there’s a precedent for this or not

vagrant grotto
#

Pass the hull save or get fucked. No caveat for a failure

ashen crown
#

Well I mean when it comes to “reduced effect on successful save” which is a different ballpark than “no effect on successful save”

vagrant grotto
#

Happy to be shown a ruling to the contrary

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

But regardless, the Arcing mostly exists so I can avoid conversations like this one lol

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

“But can this go through cover? Won’t this be blocked by cover? It’s a cone/line it’ll be blocked by cover” I am not here for this, take the Arcing and go play lol

ashen crown
#

Regardless it still makes me question the floating accuracy considering how big an AOE it is and the versatility the Anchor has in its pattern + effects. But that’s gonna be worked out in playtest as a numbers thing

vagrant grotto
#

Cover will still affect it, especially soft cover zones

#

I’m not concerned

#

Playtests will tell

ashen crown
#

Fair nuff

#

Look forward to using it regardless

vagrant grotto
#

Happy to hear that!

granite saddle
#

Heads up : I should be able to run a playtest for Capacitor and Occultist Vet traits soon, + your control sitrep. Anything you have in mind for those I should be aware of ?

vagrant grotto
#

Control: as long as you’re going off of what I ran on Saturday, I’m not concerned. Just lemme know

  1. Number of “zones”
  2. Number of points to win
  3. The action cost rules you use for scoring
  4. How many rounds it ultimately takes
granite saddle
#

It's gonna be a fairly light sitrep all things considered, but might still get some good data

#

plan is :
3 zones, 8 points, QA to score, or protocol if uncontested.

#

not gonna be able to try the rest of the house rules unfortunately, but this I can do

vagrant grotto
#

Its Veteran Trait is also adjusted to match:

HALL OF MIRRORS
Trait

While the Mesmerist has any mirror images, allied characters in Burst 2 are INVISIBLE. Each attack that misses an affected ally destroys 1 mirror image.
inland pilot
#

oh thats neat

#

on miss effects that key like that are always interesting to see

vagrant grotto
#

I would've kept it as a Save effect for better wording, but the reworked Mirror Image synergizes more with tech attacks

#

I think this rework will be more fluid; and the reworked Mirror Image makes sure that even if Memetic Magnetism is on recharge, its Invade can be a useful "filler quick" for keeping it alive

inland pilot
#

also, relatedly unrelated: i been scrolling through the npcs in my spare time and damn i really do need to give hatchets a go

#

i like skirmisher NPCs a ton

vagrant grotto
#

Hatchet got a rework and is itching for some test runs

#

I'm hopeful it'll feel more like a skirmisher now instead of "something that throws axe but doesn't care to move"

inland pilot
#

right yeah

#

ghost was interesting too, as someone who also made a "latch onto someone else" NPC

#

surprisingly amount of overlap with tools but very different in their final implementations

ashen crown
#

And Memetic Magnetism syngerizes nicely since the more targets it hits in one go, the more Mirror Images

#

Having the Burst scale with tier is curious, but in this context I think it works

vagrant grotto
#

I considered dropping the Burst scaling but I decided to keep it for now

ashen crown
#

Bigger burst = more targets = more likely to reach the uptiered Mirror Image Max

#

And I’m always a fan of reducing the amount of randomness from things that aren’t damage

#

Codespike is now also codified to Overwatch Only, but also Metafold Reposte specifically triggers Overwatch, making it sorta-squarely 1/round

vagrant grotto
#

yeah that was the case in v1.3

ashen crown
#

Yeah the version I was looking at was just Skirmish

#

Also never noticed Metafold Riposte’s been 1/scene this whole time- which is sensible

vagrant grotto
#

I figured 1 "Nope Jumpscare" was about as much as players would tolerate per fight

ashen crown
#

Ya know what else is interesting? Not a lot of base game templates give tech attacks- but PPG definitely piles on a few with Anomaly and Brigand, so it both makes Mesmerist synergize with the right templates and supplies tools for it to synergize with (I’m pretty sure Brigand and Anomaly have at least 1 tech attack optional I can’t check rn)

#

Mountebank Jaunt also seems like it triggers a lot more frequently now, being near guaranteed with Memetic Magnetism and being a risk to trigger without it, making the Mesmerist’s decision making more interesting

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

I'm not some grandmaster of synergy, it seems lol

ashen crown
#

Well still it helps

#

Kai’s rebaked Ultra helps out a ton too

vagrant grotto
#

I honestly think I'm gonna take this "Mesmerist Rebake" out for a spin on Saturday, along with a Hatchet and some Rebake Bombards

upbeat obsidian
#

are your npcs designed with your rule changes in mind? such as your heat one?

#

or will they work fine without them?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

They look like they work fine either way

upbeat obsidian
#

ok cool

ashen crown
#

With the existence of templates like Tempered and Brisk ideally they’d be designed with “Core Book Balance” (we all know that ain’t perfect so give and take here and there) and then using the optional rules you use those templates to compensate

#

As an example

vagrant grotto
#

Too many recharge abilities = Recharge heat fries you, but also you don’t want that many recharge abilities in the first place

#

Zealot I think currently suffers the most from too much recharge

#

And v1.3 Mesmerist, obviously

ashen crown
#

There’s also the matter of balancing normal Self Heat Traits with Recharge Traits that with the optional rule also give Self Heat

vagrant grotto
#

Yes, exactly

#

That’s where Anchor and Zealot are at right now

#

Granted, I’ve nerfed Recharge Heat since last I’ve run a Zealot, so

#

Honestly Zealot is one of my favorite concepts but I have yet to hear it really sing

ashen crown
#

Zealot hasn’t really clicked for me yet tbh

#

It’s interesting tho, barely Burst weapons in all of Lancer total, PCs and NPCs included

placid glacier
#

Again?

#

Or still the same from the "slow is on the axe now" change

upbeat obsidian
#

zealot is weird
its a" frontliner" but fragile, and like to me unless theres hidden/invis PC's, it seems like its just.. a AP machine? like, it just wants to stay near allies.

in terms of total hp if you use the overshield thing early its about normal npc health at 2 npcs + self, but that still kinda spreads out its health

#

sure you lose emberlight but.. 1 burn, maybe a few more, is kinda.. .. uh.
eh

#

what is a support anyway

vagrant grotto
# placid glacier 👀

No, it’s the most recent rework, I’m leaving Hatchet alone I just haven’t run it on the new rework yet

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
# 
Surgekiller
Trait
This character’s critical hits deal +3 damage against targets with at least 1 CP.
#

Another Anomaly/Brigand piece

ashen crown
#

I would say this makes more sense for Brigand, but Splinter Rounds already exist

vagrant grotto
#

Splinter Rounds/Finishing Blow yes

#

Finishing Blow just feels a lil weak to me too though

#

I don’t know

ashen crown
#

Anomaly is weird in a way that barely makes sense, meanwhile Brigand is kinda just mean in a fun way. This falls into the latter category imo

vagrant grotto
#

Figured as such

ashen crown
#

Also this, narratively, feels like a great way for an NPC to put a PC into “rage mode”, beating them up until they pop core and wreck their face

#

That makes more sense to occur when fighting a bully like a Brigand rather than an abnormality like an Anomaly

vagrant grotto
#

Brigand tends to target concrete things, usually, while Anomaly feels more… abstract I think

ashen crown
#

I mean the thing about Surgekiller is that all PCs have the power to instantly become immune to it (unless their Unicomp roll is really lucky), so you could maybe afford to give it more spice. But also that’s tough to balance because then you’re practically forcing players to use their core powers early, which can be expensive.

vagrant grotto
# 
Grav Amp
System, Recharge 5+, Quick Tech +1/+2/+3
The Brigand makes a tech attack against a character in Sensors. On a hit, the target is knocked Prone and takes kinetic damage equal to their remaining Repairs.
ashen crown
#

Oh that’s fucked up lol

vagrant grotto
#

Excellent

ashen crown
#

The damage is fairly mild, maxing out at 9 damage for frames with base 6 repairs and 13 for Lancaster, but it’s about the ranged Prone and the psychological effect more than anything

vagrant grotto
#

Exactly; it’s just crushing them with the weight of their own repairs

ashen crown
#

Do you think adding a base damage equal to the size of the target would be too much?

vagrant grotto
#

Size + Repairs sounds fine sure

ashen crown
#

Partially for logic reasons but also to help increase the damage floor- makes targeting a Spaceborn 2 Mourning Cloak is still a little viable even if it’s the worst available option

vagrant grotto
#

Was considering making the damage AP, as well

ashen crown
#

I’d do one or the other but not both

vagrant grotto
#

I’d just do AP then, less math

ashen crown
#

Good idea

vagrant grotto
# 
PARA.SITE
System, Limited 1, Full Tech
A mech within Sensors gains the following system:

NEMATODE-Class Comp/Con
0 SP, AI
Your mech gains the AI tag; this system does not count against the maximum number of AIs it can install.

Your mech gains a Parasite Die, a d6 starting at 6. After each hostile action you take, the die decreases by 1. At 1, you cannot take hostile actions. As a full action, you may take Heat equal to your Heat Cap and reset the Parasite Die to 6. The Parasite Die additionally resets on a rest.

This system is not a full NHP and cannot cascade.
muted blaze
#

Maybe make it a save of some sort maybe?

#

Also the splinter rounds but on Core power gave me an idea

#

Brigand power:

Character makes a save, on a failure they suffer a REALLY BAD control effect or they can drop their core power charge

vagrant grotto
#

The reason I’m okay with it not being a save is it doesn’t do anything upon landing

vagrant grotto
#

That’s their special button

#

So I’d rather not forcefully take it from them, but punish them for hoarding it

muted blaze
muted blaze
#

Or it could be effect that lasts a while or until you've popped core

#

Or it could just be you made a good point and it shouldn't be a system

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah I get it, it just wasn’t speaking to me today

#

I could have Surgekiller deal Heat instead

#

I think I’ll do that

muted blaze
#

Makes sense

#

I just had a dumb idea for a system

vagrant grotto
#

2 Heat on Crit for all tiers sounds reasonable yeah?

muted blaze
#

Full tech that makes the target character must take every protocol available to them on their next turn

#

Apart from maybe core power

muted blaze
ashen crown
#

Hostile actions tends to be defined as any action that targets a hostile character

#

So protocols like Projected shield count. Spotters free bonus Lock On counts. Reactions absolutely count.

#

This means it can max out in 2 turns easily

#

In one encounter? Easy enough to budget around as a GM and an interesting challenge for the player

#

For future encounters? It means the GM would likely need to pull their punches to prevent things from going catastrophically wrong

#

Cuz the full action to reset the die doesn’t set your heat to equal your heat cap, it gives you heat equal to your heat cap. So if you have 1 heat? Instant overheat. Meaning you probably need to stabilize then take an action to reset the die, take the stress, or just not take actions.

Fine in one encounter, devastating for all future ones

vagrant grotto
#

Interestingly enough, Full Actions are just 1 action

#

Even if they’re composite full actions like barrage or full tech

muted blaze
#

Leader stays winning

#

Granting accuracy in all attacks in a barrage

vagrant grotto
#

Oh hey you’re purple now

muted blaze
#

Yeah

#

Orange slapped me with it after Eleonor said I deserve it because I made lots of maps

#

It's just an excuse for me to live up to the name and write a module

#

Not as purple as you, but tbh I don't think I want to be that purple

vagrant grotto
#

Write a 1 shot, they’re quick and easy for sure

muted blaze
#

I have an idea for something, idk if it'll be better to start small and work up...

vagrant grotto
#

Always start small imo

#

I arguably started too big with a whole-ass mission, even

muted blaze
#

Which?

vagrant grotto
#

Pierce the Heavens

#

Took me 2 months to make, because I let scope creep get ahead of me

#

I’m a firm believer in the “one combat + narrative” one shot model

#

Kill the Noise was my most manageable adventure yet

ashen crown
upbeat obsidian
vagrant grotto
#

I don’t know, it’s already got a loaded base kit

upbeat obsidian
#

Ok but I do feel like when I think zealot.. that feels more zealot..y

vagrant grotto
#

I don’t know what it needs to get to a “feel better” situation

#

Probably need to just slap it on the table more and see what happens

#

Ultimately its goal is to get allies on the objective and brawling their hearts out

#

It’s not an Artillery buddy

#

Zealot is Ride and Die

ashen crown
#

Yeah I did mention it hasn’t quite clicked with me yet but that doesn’t mean it’s bad or has any problems as of yet. Some people don’t like certain NPC classes, a common thing when it comes to home brew

#

Could be the same thing for you idk

upbeat obsidian
#

??? How is shooting allies with irs burst 3 area make it a artilery

ashen crown
#

No it’s not artillery

#

The opposite

vagrant grotto
#

This is important because it dictates the range at which its stuff takes effect

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

It means that I want to design it so that it confers its benefits when it’s on the frontline and not the back

ashen crown
#

And even then they’d rather not be there when possible

vagrant grotto
#

Can’t just have it sit like an Aegis or Priest

#

Zealot wants a Bastion or similar buddy to screen for them yeah

ashen crown
#

It’s a defender/striker buddy (shut up about the Spite shut up about the Spite)

vagrant grotto
#

Knight and Zealot or Mesmerist and Zealot should, on paper, be a slam dunk

upbeat obsidian
#

That’s fair I guess
I think then though you just make it have effects that are better for strikers?

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah that’s its kit

#

AP damage, peel invis, free boost

#

I don’t know how to reach these kids

#

I’m giving them everything they want lol

ashen crown
#

A note about veteran in PPG- if you’re gonna add bespoke class optionals you should prolly shout out the Kai rebakes while you’re at it, since they’re specifically designed for his veterans

vagrant grotto
#

But I can link the github, so good shout

ashen crown
#

The least that can be done is mention it by name- it’s not an uncommon 3rd party practice, one module I’m running has the Puppeteer template in it ( w/ permission from Kat) and I don’t believe the PDF could have a link in it so it was only cited by name thus far

#

Lemme double check that tho

#

Yep it’s included and cited wholesale with Kat’s permission, even w/o a link

#

So like even if you can’t get a link (tho you should if you can), citing it by name should suffice

vagrant grotto
#

Aight, I’ll amend that in a future patch then.

#

To be clear, the traits could be used regardless of Kai’s vs CRB veteran

#

But yes, Kai’s rebakes inspired it, so I will definitely add credit

#

My mistake

ashen crown
#

I’m sure it’s all good, like you mentioned it can be used with CRB veteran too and it’s 100% your own work, so it’s not like there was any infringement or anything

upbeat obsidian
# vagrant grotto AP damage, peel invis, free boost

Well, let me know if you figure out how to run it good

As a note, In this hypothetical was maybe thinking buffing gun to 2 burn, and having a choice To allies if they are hit by burn

  • clear a condition,
  • next {time this npc does dmg but not applying to aoe}, deal like 3 burn
  • move up to 3 spaces
    -that sort of thing

Possibly dealing more burn to allies who are already burned to make you want to spread iy out

Maybe this would not solve the issues, but it’s kinda a cool concept

#

Idk I just like the concept, but I ain’t super informed in lancer gaming

vagrant grotto
#

I already toyed with High Risk High Reward (e.g. allies get AP but attacks against them get AP) and was basically told that it wasn’t worth it since players will ruthlessly exploit the weakness

upbeat obsidian
#

For all high risk high reward npc concepts?

vagrant grotto
#

So I’m not having it attack buddies even if it gives a bigger benefit, I’d just give them the benefit

#

No like for Zealot’s aura

#

I’m not gonna extrapolate to ALL concepts but I’m not really interested in exploring them

ashen crown
#

We already have a Marathon Arc Bow equiv anyway and that’s more interesting because it’s a line, the most difficult pattern to line up

vagrant grotto
#

Intensifying High risk high reward usually results in a glass cannon at best, IME

#

So

#

Yeah no thank you

ashen crown
#

IMO the Zealot right now feels very “complete” in terms of concepts to explore. If the mechanics of those concepts need reworking, well that remains to be seen

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah I just need to run it more

#

Figure out my pain points

upbeat obsidian
#

2 burn, admittedly is not really high risk unless your fragile to start with
But, shrug

I do not vibe with it for now

#

That is not necessarily because it’s bad

vagrant grotto
#

I know

#

Hope you enjoy the rest then

upbeat obsidian
#

Let me know how your testing goes

upbeat obsidian
ashen crown
#

Ya know what’s kinda odd to me?

Zeal makes a burst 3, but gives allies AP against targets within sensors of the Zealot, aka range 5. Which is kinda a disjoint of ranges that I can see as being a bit annoying

#

What’s up with that decision?

upbeat obsidian
#

Only thing I’ve really came up with the zealot is uh.. combining it with legionnaires

#

Wait let me make sure I’m getting this right you need to have the ally and the pc in the zealots sensor range to get the ap?

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

Run up and kill

#

Re: disjoint: It’s an annoying disjoint trying to split the difference between too wide and too constrained

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

I don’t like it either but it was the best I had at the moment

ashen crown
#

Yeah that’s fair

vagrant grotto
#

Its sensor range is intentionally 5 like the Hornet

ashen crown
#

Gotcha, so it’ll probably stay that way. Good to know

vagrant grotto
#

If it wasn’t already clear, this thing wants to make its team run up and beat people up

upbeat obsidian
#

Ok that makes me like it more interesting then what I was thinking before
From like… mechanical standpoint, although it is a downgrade from my previous understandinf

vagrant grotto
#

It’s not a priest, it’s not a witch, it’s not a mirage, it’s a nutjob with a death wish screaming a battle cry

ashen crown
#

Another question about design: how come Zeal is very forgiving with its duration (compared to the anchor’s Lodestone for example) and is a 2 heat trait, but the Zealot has a 10 heat cap? Overheating feels like less of a threat to it compared to the other heat NPCs in the supplement and in the CRB, like the Anchor or Scourer, and as a protocol it’s pretty action efficient. But I’m assuming you had something in mind with the 10 heat cap?

vagrant grotto
#

I expected it to live through 3 turns tops

ashen crown
#

Right, but it’s not really squishy?

#

Imo that sounds like a reason to give it a smaller heat cap rather than a larger one

vagrant grotto
#

Playtest it and let me know then

ashen crown
#

Will do then!

#

I can see a combat coming up I may wanna use a zealot for tbh

vagrant grotto
#

Point was to keep it from being too easily dispelled

ashen crown
#

Ah ok I see

vagrant grotto
#

If it lives for 2 turns it has effectively 6 HC

ashen crown
#

And I assume that’s why Zeal is more forgiving with its duration than, say, Lodestone

vagrant grotto
#

Yes

#

Like, it’s been a minute since I’ve used an Anchor too

#

There’s potential for Lodestone to get a heat reduction

ashen crown
#

I think it’d be better for it to get the same duration treatment as Zeal in that case imo, where it lasts until the Anchor’s first turn next round

vagrant grotto
#

Lodestone is also appropriately battlefield warping in comparison

ashen crown
#

But yeah that’s more situational

vagrant grotto
#

Maybe, I haven’t heard anyone playtest it since I made that change

#

So yeah

#
  1. It wants to run up with its team and take the hill/beat up opponents
  2. It needs more playtesting
ashen crown
#

Yeah, I’m definitely gonna run it for the upcoming Control my players will be doing

#

The module says “Commander” but I’m adding Veteran and Anomaly too because :3

#

I could also make the 2 fodder priests in the following combat Zealots but it’s a Gauntlet so idk how well they’ll be able to perform… could also sub one of them out for a zealot and keep the other a priest 🤔

#

Too many classes tho

#

Also too many of those units are mid-long range so they’d have a rough time

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Anomaly is the “void your warranty” template so yeah I don’t know

ashen crown
#

I could also like

#

Not give it Anomaly

vagrant grotto
#

Do what you want

ashen crown
#

Compared to all of the Anomaly traits Realm Warp seems pretty innocent tho

vagrant grotto
#

I’m not your dad

ashen crown
#

I heard Forced Obsolescence was getting a change too, what’s happening with it again?

vagrant grotto
#

Is it?

#

Ah

upbeat obsidian
#

extrude knife should have thrown 9999 rather then thrown ∞

this is extremely important for reasons (tm)

vagrant grotto
#

I was considering 1/scene per character yes

ashen crown
#

Idk there was discussion of changing it to a tech and I think other stuff? I don’t recall

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Tbh I’ll probably take Forced Obsolescence for the Anomaly trait- it’s not too high power with the change and still forces the Zealot to stay in range of people

vagrant grotto
#

I get it but also I like abusing the infinity

upbeat obsidian
#

thats exactly why its problem

it should not have lore implications of uh.. silliness

ashen crown
ashen crown
upbeat obsidian
vagrant grotto
#

If I wanted it to be an arbitrarily large number, I’d pick something 1 less than a nice round number, like 63, 127, or 1023

upbeat obsidian
#

anyway it doesn't matter at all

#

did you change regenerator for your lcp or am i just remembering wrong

vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
#

ah i was remembering wrong

vagrant grotto
#

I didn’t touch anything from Exotic, directly

#

I just said “hey you can pick these if you want”

upbeat obsidian
vagrant grotto
#

Yes, I was reconsidering that

upbeat obsidian
#

issue found: extrude knife does not scale attack bonus

vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
#

should be +9999/+10000/+10001

vagrant grotto
#

Instructions unclear; set attack bonus to -1048576

#

Unironically considering setting the attack bonus to a negative number

#

Since at large positives, it always crits

upbeat obsidian
#

Won’t it… miss?

vagrant grotto
#

The point was never to hit; the point was to deal damage

muted blaze
#

Orchis stays winning

upbeat obsidian
#

if you gave it reliable yeh

in other news

#

why is torrent explosive? its possible theres some flavor reason but if its nanobots thats usually kinetic

#

also, wtf does burst cone do?

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
#

yeah that could work if you put it in the flavoe

upbeat obsidian
vagrant grotto
upbeat obsidian
#

the comp con entry for torrent doesnt have the flavor

#

its sad

#

no but both my confusions at the torrent were on the pdf thanks

vagrant grotto
#

Omfg I completely forgot to put it in

#

Thanks for the catch

upbeat obsidian
#

i figured it wasnt done? uh...

#

might be worth putting a little thing syaing [compcon: pick either burst or cone for this weapon]

#

i dont think you need the [] though

ashen crown
#

Question about Fervent Retribution: does it deal damage to the attacker if the attacker is affected by zeal, or if their target is affected by zeal? If the latter, does it work at any range? Eg. an artillery attacking a Zealed ally from a distance and taking burn

#

(Imo the former encourages more running into the fray and the enemy but that’s just me)

#

(We’ll be testing it soon regardless)

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Gotcha 👍

vagrant grotto
#

It damages the attacker, you got that right?

#

Making sure “attacked” was a typo

ashen crown
#

Yeah a typo oops

vagrant grotto
#

But yeah the vet features are all shiny, fresh, and completely untested, so playtest feedback is welcome

ashen crown
#

I am curious to learn if the “Zealed enemies with Burn experience effect” part of the kit should be enhanced or not, when I test it I mean

vagrant grotto
#

We shall see

ashen crown
#

It’s an interesting gimmick that focuses in on the Zealot wanting to be in melee and lets Blazing Fervor have more utility

#

Has there been a version of the Zealot where instead of granting Zealed allies AP against nearby enemies, enemies with Burn and Zeal are Shredded? Again not saying to do this I’m just wondering if it’s been considered or not at this point in development

vagrant grotto
#

But it’s on my mind

#

If there’s one thing that’s apparent from PPG, it’s the extremely dim view I take on Artillery units

ashen crown
#

Yeye makes sense makes sense, and it would hedge the Zealot into more of a controller role at that point

ashen crown
vagrant grotto